October 27, 2025 • 52 mins
Audrey Griffin was the type of person the world needs. But a killer that could have been stopped cut her life short. Adrian Torrens had been out on bail and was facing several non-related domestic violence charges when he murdered Audrey.
From Torrens’ DNA found under Audrey’s fingernails and the houses that weren’t doornocked to her phone being found by a friend days later at the crime scene, Kathleen Kirby joins Gary Jubelin to share how she had to fight to get justice for her daughter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective see a side of life. The average person is
never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.
(00:46):
Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Kathleen Kirby,
the mother of murdered nineteen year old Audrey Griffin. I
travel up to the central case of New South Wales
to meet Kathleen and talk about the murder of her
beautiful daughter. I wish I wasn't meeting Kathleen under these circumstances.
See seven months ago, her daughter Audrey was murdered by
(01:06):
a stranger when she was walking home late one night.
That man, Adrian Torrens, was out on bail and had
an extensive history of domestic violence. Audrey's death was initially
ruled by police as a misadventure, but Kathleen knew that
wasn't the case and took matters into her own hands.
If she hadn't, Torrens might have gotten away with murder.
(01:28):
Here is part two of my chat with Kathleen the
CCTV footage which led to the breakthrough. What involvement did
you have him pushing for finding out more about the
TV footage?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, once again, when I went in to see the footage,
which they didn't show me the footage that they released
the following day, which I asked, I want to see
all the footage everything. I want to see what stay
of mind she.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Is so okay and what we're breaking down here CCTV
footage taken from businesses along everything they had people walking.
You've gone in the police station and said I want
to see it, and they.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Took them three weeks to get back to me to
say okay, come in, and then I'm sitting down and
they're showing me bits and pieces and I said, so
where's the club. It's upstairs. Didn't I just say I
wanted to see all of it. So I see all that,
I see parts of it. I walk out of there.
I'm like, Okay, she's happy, she's not drunk, she's not dizzy,
she's not falling over the place. You know, what I
(02:31):
have just thought is that she would have had jet leg.
And then when we've seen that video that was taken
off her to a friend and she's tired, it's two thirty,
she's just done Sydney mum out all night walking home
to thirty jet legged. We did things, as I said
(02:51):
to you, to have tests done. We had to cremate
our daughter in a way that no parent would have
to make that choice. And then to find out now
they had that footage the day after that, they released
(03:14):
three and a half weeks and they hadn't shown me.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Post more than you're talking about there, And it's invasive
when the postmortems have done. If they were treating it
as suspicious, I'd have to say just that there would
be a post more than conducted that needs to be
conducted unless there was some extremely extenuating the extenuating circumstances.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Do you know they said to me. What I've been
informed is that when I came back to them and said,
that's when they said, maybe we should start looking at
this a bit more. When I went back after seeing
Audrey and I said to them, this is not that's
when from what I've been told now, is when they said,
that's when they started looking into it more.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's what you're being told now when you're pushing with
the CCTV footage, what happened after you've gone in and
causing concerns you want to look at it, and demanding
to look at the CCTV footage, What's what's happened?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
The next day they released they released the photo of
him walking behind her and two young girls in front.
The young girls in front lasted a couple of hours,
I think, on social media, and I think that got
shut down quite quick and his photo was still there. Now,
this is where it comes a bit of a blur.
(04:38):
I remember ringing him and saying, why didn't I see
that footage? And that's when he was saying to me,
we didn't find it irrelevant at.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
The time, didn't find it relevant because he was.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Twenty meters behind. And when I also said, when I
was there, have you got the footage? What about all
the footage between here and here? He said, well, we
don't need that, we've got that, and I said, well,
I've got footage from two shops one of the real
estates my girlfriend works in that said to me, Kathleen,
(05:10):
we've got footage. You want me to have a look,
and it's him walking behind her that they didn't have.
And when I said to them, why haven't you got that?
And he said, because we've got this and that we've
got enough footage. And I said, well, how do you
know that something didn't happen in between that time?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Just help me break that and that for a bit.
So they've got footage where he's walking behind orgery. This
is coming from the direction of Gossip Hotel. Correct, we
know where Audrey's Body's been found, direct aeron the creek.
And them telling you that there's no need to look
(05:49):
at other footage because we've got footage.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I don't know if they said they didn't need to
look at footage that from when I said, oh, I've
got this footage, why haven't you got it? And they said, oh,
we've got footage from all the other places we didn't
need that one. And to me, it's like any anyone
else could have been involved, any like, wouldn't you just
get all the footage?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I would say, yes, yes, you would in.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That strip because it's not that amount of shops.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Well we say it's five or six kilometers, and that's
just my guestimate on how far it might be a
little bit less. There's not that many shops. There's banker shops,
and we're talking, you know, two hundred meters work for shops,
the hotel and some service stations, those type of things.
So it's not like looking the main street of a
(06:34):
city going through every business. Okay, so how would you
describe your thoughts about the police what they were doing
at this point in time.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I was appalled, absolutely. I was beside myself. I was
beside myself constantly. We all were. Everybody was by this stage.
Everyone was just you know a lot of people were
quite because you know, we didn't know, but everyone in
the background was like, no way, no way, you know,
(07:09):
and here myself and the girls that we were all
in the hotel room were just constantly just at the
police station, just you know, and seeing them, seeing me
doing the work that I was doing, they would concern
for me as well.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
To give a sense, and it might be hard to
give exact numbers, But in that three weeks from the
time Audrey's Body's been found until the release of the
CCTV footage, how many conversations would you say, you and
the old girlfriends acting on your every day?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Every day? Every day, maybe a couple of times a day.
So I was constantly on the phone to them, when
am I seeing this? When am I picking up this?
Where's her phone? Where's her bag? Where's this?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
What?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I was constantly on the phone.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
To them, So twenty you.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh, easy, it'll be Look, we could definitely say once a.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Day, but even more would have your mind been put
at ease if the police had said to you during
those frequent contacts, look, we are looking at this is
suspiciously Absolutely, was that ever said to you. Never, So,
despite all the stuff that you've brought to them and
where you've questioned what's been done, there was no point
(08:25):
and I'm talking up until when the photo was released,
no point where they've said, look, we've decided to look
at it in more detail. You have never told me
ever at once did you give them the opportunity to
tell that, Like I'm thinking, was that you just ringing
up and angry at them and hanging up or did
you never hung up? I was always okay, so you
(08:45):
gave them the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I was always I you know, yes, So maybe it's
a few times that i'd raised my voice, but I
always treat them with respect in an anger way of
a mother grieving. But I was never I. I went
in their professional in ways that I needed them behind me.
I didn't want to burn bridges in any way. So
(09:06):
I had that in my mind at all times, and
I had the girls with me, and to the point
even with my girlfriend who's a solicitor, walked out and see, Kathleen,
you handle that so well? Do you know what I mean? So? No?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So, And why I pose that question? There was just
opportunities if they had changed their mind, where they could
have told you, like I'm thinking of them many times
they trying to justify my own mind. How why they're
approaching it that way? And I think if if you're
coming in aggressively, they might have been able to tell
you that they've turned it round. But you're saying that
there was.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Even if that was the case, get a counselor in
and sit down with me, give me support, but to
let me go through everything I did and doing what
I had to do to find out if she'd been
drugged or pointed or drugged or she was intoxicated before
we cremated Audrey. That should never have happened. I should
(10:00):
never have had to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, And I'm not sure if this is helping you
however you want to look at it. But if it
was treated as suspicious, that would have been those types
of tests that would have been done.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
They had the footage of the day after, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
But they potentially would need to still gather that evidence.
So the foto's gone out. So you've asked for media attention,
you've asked for media release early just after Audrey's body
was found. You've harassed and chased up your own CCTV footage.
(10:34):
You've gone to the police asking what's on it. You've
asked to see what's on it, You've seen it, it's
been released, and then.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
What so then it's released and we're informed to come
into and at this stage, I'm with my father. He's
passed pretty much on his last breath, and right at
the hospital with my family, and I'm asked to come
into the Surrey Hill's police station. So Trevor and I
(11:03):
arrived to Surrey Hill's police station later in that afternoon,
and a different detective who's now taking over the case
said to me, we've arrested don't want to say his
name for the murder of Audrey. And I said, has
(11:29):
he confessed? And he said he's sleeping at the moment,
And then I said and then he said, sorry, he's
in custody with the We can't speak to him now
because he's in custody with the Aboriginal community. I was
(11:50):
then told that they were going to do what they
could and that they'd get support team. And I may
have had a phone call once or twice from someone
in all this going on that maybe once I think
she said she reached out. Trevor and I walked out,
(12:16):
no support. While he's sitting in there being protected. We
get to walk out at Sorry Hill's Police station without
daor to be murdered. He's been on the loose for
three weeks, he's been seen at the location, which they denied,
and we walk out of there and he gets protection.
(12:39):
Doesn't matter what color, they said, they said to us
as well, sorry that we've arrested him, that she scratched
him with her index finger on the face. We've got
DNA and we also have seven other people come forward
(13:00):
enough to arrest him.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That potentially the way that handle that. I just clarify,
people in custody have rights, and where's my rights? Sitting
here hearing your story, I would imagine everyone else would
feel the same way and go, well, who cares. That's
(13:22):
the reality of the world.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's not reality. It's not reality. This is what we
need to change. And I get I understand what you're saying,
and I know what you're going to say, but it's
not reality. This is a man that's murdered my daughter
and we're left to walk out of there and he's
got a roof over his head and probably even feed
and someone protecting him, and where are we? That is
just wrong on every level. I'm sorry, I know, I
(13:46):
know what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You don't have to be sorry, and I can't argue
back on You're entitled to those views and fully understandable.
He was charged a couple a couple of things at
points I want to make here on the charging that
He's DNA were found under a fingernails, whinding it right
(14:09):
back to the couple of weeks before when her Audrey's
body was found. Checking the fingernails for a potential murder investigation?
Is just homicide? One oh one? The fact that he's
DNA were found under the fingernails causing me a concern
that that wasn't enough to prompt that there's a thorough
(14:29):
homicide investigation. He was only in custody for four days,
three and a bit before he killed himself in prison.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
How does that happen? How does someone get a razor
blade to take their life in prison? How does someone
that's been on a five day bender from what I've
been informed the week before, on drugs and alcohol and
put in jail and they turn and the counselors turn
around and say that he's not suicidal and put him
(15:00):
in a normal cell where he's handed a raizor blade
to take his life. How does that happen with a
history that he has.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I can't answer that. I know practices have put in
place to prevent that type of thing, but I'm sure
that will be encompassed in a cranial investigation. It would
be treated as a death in custody and an investigation
will be conducted conducted that way from an emotional point
of view, from your point of view and Trevors and
(15:30):
friends and family, how did it make you feel to
know the person that's been arrested and charged with Audrey's
murder has taken that part?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Helleljah, thank you. At the time, we were having a
ritual for Audrey down at the beach where the whole
of terrible people for Miles. I don't know if you've
seen it.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I've seen it. I've seen that many people that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Are people couldn't even get there. It was like people
were coming from Sydney on the train. They just couldn't
get there. That was the response that people and we
found out. So that day at four point fifty we
were told the ceremony started at five. At four point fifty,
we got the phone call to say that he'd taken
his life. So ten minutes prior, I lose my father
(16:19):
that night and then when i'm you know, when they
phone me to say how are you feeling? And I said, well,
you know what, I'm happy. I'm happy because he's off
the street and he's gone. Did I feel that way later.
Probably not, But then from what I've been informed, there
may be a lot of things he may have said
to me if I did see him face to face
(16:41):
that I probably never would have come back from. So
at the end of the day, yes, yes, he will
never be out to hurt another child, or another woman
or another man, whoever that'll be.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I can understand how difficult the whole whole situation, if.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
The whole situation is just appalling, to think that he
was out on the street for three weeks and hidden,
you know, he was hidden that I while he was missing,
he'd been up at casino.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
How are you aware of that?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I was told by the constable.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Right, did the police say anything to you about how
it's gone from misadventure to murder? Did was there any
apologies or any any oh?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
God knows, God knows?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Was there any discussions? Did you?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like I'm the one that's always brought it up. How
how do you go from you know, when we went
to the coroner's report, which I brought my doctor with
me so she could actually explain the information clearly to
me so that we could understand. How did it? Ever?
(17:54):
From what I see of Audrey, how was that ever
tread as an adventure, and then how did you come
to the conclusion of this? Yes, they explained all that,
but still to me, how did they come to that
conclusion misadventure when you you only had to see her?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, I can't comment on that because I didn't see Audrey,
but I respect your comments as Audrey's mother, But on
the circumstances, I don't see how you could write that
off a misadventure. You've got to keep an open mind,
to open mind to things. So in light of all
(18:36):
that's happened, have you had to sit down with any
senior police.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yes, we've had many of interviews with Chris Min's yes man.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So we're talking the premiere of the police minister, so
that the high, high level meetings correct.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And then there was Karen web police commissioner correct which
she looked me in the eye, which tears as a woman,
as a mother with a broken heart, and said to me, Kathleen,
we had him locked up, they just let him out.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah. Well, that's that's another part of this whole story
that concerns me. And I'm not being critical of Karen
Webb here, the former former commissioner, but I'm somewhat confused.
You might be able to add some clarity to it.
But when he was, and I'll respect the fact you
(19:34):
don't want his name mentioned, so he doesn't deserve it, okay.
When he was charged with Audrey's murder, he was also
charged with eleven other counts of the breaching AVOs and
domestic violence related related matters. My understanding, he was put
before the courts in October, granted the corrections order and released.
(19:58):
It was fairly stringent, and then he was sentenced on
the sixteenth of January correctional orders. These breaches of the
avas related to his former wife. And I've also picked
up on the information that she's saying that she was
(20:20):
concerned about the amount of times that she contacted the
police asking whether he's been located, and he hadn't been located.
My concerns, and this is speculating here that he can't
be that difficult to find because he was committing the
fences by using his telephone.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Now, if someone's got their telephone, as police officers, we
can find them.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
This is what I'm saying about the location. When my
girlfriend saw him at the location the week later, I said,
when I was driving up for the ritual that day,
and I drove past the creek. I was coming from
Sydney and I was driving past to come up to Terrgill.
And I went past and I saw all the police there,
and I pulled in and I said, what's going on.
(21:04):
They said, we're doing a reenactment. And I walked up
to one of the detectives that was being there from
day dot and said to her, I've been informed a
girlfriend had phoned in about seeing him the week after,
and she came in and did a statement because obviously
by this stage she saw the photo and identified the
clothing he was wearing. She said to me, yes, his
(21:27):
phone diged to the location, right.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
They denied that later when your girlfriend said she saw
saw him, he was there, that when they were doing
the re enactment. Was that after he'd been arrested. Yes, okay,
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
This was the day of the ritual.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Getting back to the offenses that he was wanted for now,
I've heard the Commission of Web say that, yeah, we
put him before, put him before the courts, and I
understand that. I understand the frustration from the police, like
we can't control the courts. We've got to accept the
court's decisions. I'm just curious how long, with eleven breaches
(22:11):
of avas, how long police were looking for him before?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Correct? That's what I think too.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Audrey's murder and what efforts were done to find him?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
When were those offenses committed? Because I look at his
criminal history. Well, I've seen of his criminal history and
the past offenses and the threats that were made to
his ex wife. They're concerning in anyone's level. You don't
have to be a cop to think this person's potentially dangerous.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I want to know exactly what happened from day dot.
I want to know exactly exactly what was done. Why
we were told it was a misadventure, Why it was
put down as a misadventure. Why nothing was ever said
to me, even if they, like you said, if I
was a lunatic or whatever, and they felt they couldn't
(23:04):
approach me, Why didn't I get the support so that song.
Why did they allow me to come in there knowing
I was very stressed and I was looking for answers.
At no stage did they ever say to me, Kathleen,
we're looking into this, or we're doing this, We're going
to look or even we're going to try and do this,
or we're going to do this nothing misadventure. Would that
(23:29):
make absolutely make a difference, absolutely absolutely if I knew
they were looking. If I knew they were looking, and
I would still wouldn't stopped myself because obviously if they
were looking, why is it that I found we found
all this stuff? How do you not find a phone?
(23:49):
How do you not go down the lot? That's what
I said to him. How did you not go down
there in low tide? He said, because we've got the divers.
So three people on three different days have gone down
there scouting, and yet no one thinks to go and
look for low type. But yes, let's pay for the
government to go and send some divers down there. Lets
them do that when all they had to do is
go down low tide and they would have found it. Strange.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I think they are just in my opinion, I think
they want the divers in there as well, even at
low tide. These are the type of things. But yeah,
as I said, if you can't find the phone of
a girl that's found de sea in water, you'd be
looking at Okay, Well, there's a potential something suspicious there
where is the phone? Because we've we keep our phones
(24:33):
in their pockets or keep them close to us. Where
is where is the phone? Was it the robbery?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Can I just say in regards to that, So in
this time that I'm stressing about the phone, where's the phone?
Where's a phone? This is when I picked the car
up and I found the computer. So when you think
they'd go through the computer which I found on her.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
iPad linked to the phone.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
No, that she'd phoned a cab, So why didn't they
find that? Why didn't they go through her computer and
have a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
You're sorry you're found on her computer when you've gone from.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Her computer, she's got another iPad at home. The iPad,
so they're all connected. She made a call to an
uber and I don't know if it turned up or
what happened, but she'd made that call. And when I
said to them, why you know, my consum was, why
didn't they go into that computer? Like it's linked to
her phone. Anything that was on that phone would have
been lenked. She would have known who she was talking to,
(25:25):
who she had, you know, all that stuff, and they
didn't take the computer.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Is that? At what point did they take a car
straight away? Where was from?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Terrible?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
It was that terrible? So they sees that that straight away.
Do you hope to at some point in time sit
down with police that take ownership of what has happened
in regards to this investigation or from your perspective and
until we hear from the police, we don't know their
(25:56):
side of the story from your perspective. Failings in an investigation?
Do you have to have a sit down and go
through those so this type of thing doesn't happen again?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
No, why they've done it? What's going to be done?
Like when I asked if the constable that was there
the day that we found Audrey, and he walked up
to me and he said, sorry for your condolence, and
then he was telling you so when I said to him,
I wanted to you know, like I wanted to put it.
I was angry. I want to put a complaint in.
And they when he is being addressed, is that's been sorted?
(26:31):
Do you really need to make it further? And I
kind of went, well, Okay, well it's been addressed.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Maybe not see I see something like that, And I said,
I'd be honest with you. I see people in situations
like that, young young police. They don't know how.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
He's not young.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Don't wreck my version of events. Okay, he might be inexperienced,
just but inexperience some people don't know how. So if
it's a clumsiness in the way to talk to a victim, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I'm sorry, Okay, might take that all right, don't be
in the industry. He's a police officer, for God's sake.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I had that view and look where it got me.
You well, there's no higher honor as an investigator, as
a police officer than too and higher honor and responsibility
to investigate someone's death. And you know where people are
making comments that you choose the wrong word, and that
(27:30):
can be like a triggering effect for someone that's been
through what you've gone through. I see how mistakes can
be made, and genuine mistakes like that what I'm looking
at from what you've told me, And I think with this,
and we don't normally go this far, but I think
we'll reach out to the police and see if if
they can give their perspective on a couple of things,
(27:52):
because some of the things that you've told me are
quite quite shocking, and I think it is a failing
in regards to the way matters should be investigated. And
see what they say. You have said you don't want
or it doesn't matter because it's happened.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Oh no, I'm sorry. I'll probably rephrase it. It's not
that I don't want to because at the coroner's report,
that's when I want it to come out. That's when
I want to hear it. I want to hear it
all the excuses. I mean, I suppose it's probably good
to hear what their excuses are.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, a speculation here. I don't know what was acting
on their mind, but I know when I was involved
in it, I would say to junior police and bosses
that I respect people that have seeing you to me,
you make a mistake, a genuine mistake, and will support
you like a genuine mistake, so a wrong assumption or
(28:46):
different things, genuine mistake. I've seen the power of them,
and in matters that I've been involved in where the
commissioner has come up and apologized to some families and
it meant a lot to them, and it was as
simple as we're sorry, we could have done better, correct
and that meant it didn't fix what was being done,
(29:08):
but he did also say and will learn from these mistakes,
So that I thought was very powerful, and that took
about ten years to get the commissioner to come to
this community and talk like that. But I know from
their point of view, and I think they're comfortable with
me speaking on their behalf. It did help them at
least there was some acknowledgment that the mistakes were being made.
(29:30):
Anyone that's listening to the podcasts to our chat here
can hear the pain that you're going through and what
you've been through, and the circumstances added to that pain
is when police haven't done their job or you don't
believe they've done their job, and that just adds adds
(29:50):
to the trauma.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Absolutely, like I don't know who I am anymore. I
don't need you know. People say how are you? How
do I answer that. I get up every day, I
get dressed, I move on. I do what I have
to do. I went to my doctor last night and
(30:15):
she's like, are you using anything? Are you drinking? And
I'm like, no, I'm not drinking, I'm not taking drugs.
I'm not using any medication. I would swim to clear
my head. I can't do that. Now I haven't been
able to get back into the ocean and swim with
my friends. She has recommended that she's amazing and once
(30:47):
again she's behind us as well, and it is going
to be following this journey with me, and she has come,
she will be coming to the coroner's report. Well, what's
happening now is up every day. And she said to me,
you know at early stage when she said to me, look, Kathleen,
(31:09):
you need to own, you need to accept for you
to start moving forward. I haven't even started to grieve.
I can't talk to my How many people say, do
you talk to her? Do you do this?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Do that?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I have got a war so high. I know she's
with me. I love her every day, but I have
got a war that is just protecting me so high
because I need. I need some justice for my daughter.
And if I crumble, I will crumble. And when I crumble,
I know I am so scared to stop. I am
(31:47):
so scared to stop motivating or I can't be alone.
You know I can't. I'm not. I don't know who
I am and I don't know who I'm ever going
to be again. And I know people say time heills,
but I'm sorry. I don't see that. I don't see
how my life has any purpose. And don't get me wrong,
(32:12):
I'm not you know, as I said, I'm not doing drugs,
I'm not doing alcohol, I'm not suicidal, I'm not anything.
But my life is not looking pretty. And for me,
every day I get up is just purely for my
daughter to get justice, because she is not a number.
(32:33):
She is an amazing young woman that I will fight
for until we get justice. I'm not even sure what
that looks like yet.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I was going to ask you what in your mind?
What is justice?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Justice is? Once again, those little steps of people like
him apologizing. What are the government? They all get to
sit there and just tick their little boxes and just
move on. Where's the heart? Where is the heart? There's
no heart, there's no And for me and Trevor, where
(33:14):
the case is finished as far as they're concerned, because
he murdered himself and now it's just put in a
filing cabinet and put away and we're just there to
just And how does that happen? How does someone let
someone out that has a record and a history to
do that to it? Not a girl that's been in
(33:35):
any kind of trouble with domestic violence. Didn't know. The
man takes a woman who was going to serve for
our country and a beautiful soul. He murders her. He
takes her life away from her. He takes his life
and it gets put in a filing cabinet and off
(33:56):
we go. Where is where is the justice for her?
Where is the justice for her friends who found her?
That the support? There's been no support whatsoever for them. Children.
They're all struggling. They're nineteen, the kids, they're nineteen years
of age. Where's the support? The government have done this,
(34:18):
they allowed him out. They need to take some responsibility
and instead of keep fixing the people that are damaged
in regards to drugs and alcohol and all that stuff,
how about helping the people that are good people that
have been out there. They're doing well, they're going to university,
they're trying to make something their life, and they've been
(34:39):
put in a situation that the government's put them in
and there's not one bit of support, no counseling, no nothing,
not even for me, but for them. It breaks my
heart to think at nineteen, these young girls have to
go through this. That's what the Where's the platform and
where's the heart?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Well, look in the answer to the questions, what is
justice wears the heart? All these failings of the system.
I look at it, breaking it down in parts. How
was it investigated? Now, if mistakes were made, we've got
(35:19):
to learn from those mistakes because someone else is going
to be sitting in And I know this from my
time in homicide. If we don't learn, someone else will
be sitting in your position because more mistakes will be made.
I have had so many families reach out to me
when I was in the cops and when I'm out
of the cops, saying, we're not sure if this has
been done properly. Did the police check this. I've been
(35:41):
involved in investigations that were written off as misadventure and
turned out to be something something more more sinister. I've
been involved in it. So I think that's an important
platform that's about justice making sure that these type of
things are handled properly. Everyone makes mistakes, and I don't
get the sense and in all my conversations with you
(36:03):
haven't been beating up on them. Want this person that person,
You're just going this is what's happened. It shouldn't happen
and by talking about it, hopefully it won't happen and
people understand there is a responsibility that comes with investigating
someone's death.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
But what about also to the support And that's the
part too, Like, yes, the police, they've done it, they'll
get a slap on the wrist, off they go, and
you know, obviously these people have been involved, they're going
to be more alert of course after this, especially having
someone like me that's just not backing down. What about support?
(36:38):
Where's that?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Where's the support were you put in contact when it
was confirmed that Audrey had been murdered? The victims of homicide?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Did they a gracehouse? Amazing? Look, look they're great, they're great,
they're beautiful, they're great.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
But the other people will be okay, But.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Without being disrespectful, I'm talking to somebody that hasn't And look,
and as I said, I'm not here to rubbish or
do anyone, but I'm not talking to people that are
in a situation who have Oh I don't know how
(37:25):
to put this across. They're great and you know, the
support in many ways they've been great. Anything to do
with that situation For me, I'm like, oh my god,
do you actually have children. How can you sit here
and say to me, we've granted you twenty hours of counseling,
(37:51):
we can only one I'm unlyavailable between nine and five. Sorry,
I can only have a breakdown between nine and five.
I should be twenty four hours a day. I should
be for the rest of my life if I need it.
I'm not out there doing drugs and taking our cal
I'm trying my best.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I hear what you're saying, and you're a supports wrong.
You're a victim of crime and the support is not
adequate in regards to it. So that's something again, it's
worthwhile worthwhile raising whether I don't know whether it can
be improved or how it could be improved, but I
do take on board what you're saying there, and the
(38:30):
type of help you need might vary from what it
might not be what other people need. Each trauma is
handled differently by each each person. With the other people
affected by crime, we need to have someone that they
can go to to see are they entitled to? And
(38:50):
I can only imagine Audrey's friends that what they've been through,
and especially the ones that were at the scene, and
how they're coping with it. In regards to we've talked
about the investigation. I think something that's really worthwhile finding
out is hold it. Because we talk tough, we're very
(39:11):
good at talking tough about we're cracking down on domestic violence,
and all these women have been killed by their ex
partners and different things like that. I want to know
and I hopefully, hopefully it will come out in the
inquest about the person that killed Audrey? When did he
commit the offenses he was charged with, and how long
(39:32):
he was on the run for and what efforts were
made to locate him? Because to me, they looked like
that person was a serious risk of committing a violent
or significant offense. What efforts were made after he's been
granted bail from court, if he's committing other offenses, what
efforts were made to locate him? And it's not that
(39:54):
easy for people to hide these days.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
They retrieved that conversation from his phone what he did
to my daughter, confessed to what he did. How are
these people not accountable? How do these people hide him
for three weeks, get a phone call and nothing can
be done? How is that? How is that?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Right now? Is this a hearing for the cornial inquest
on the twenty third of October, or is it the mention?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I guess again once again, I think I think it's
just a meeting where we catch up. It's not a hearing.
It's definitely not a hearing.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Okay, so it's just a meeting. I think that before
the meeting you gave their well planned with These are
the questions I want asks and have those document them.
Have them. These are the questions I hope you can't demand,
but you can hope there are from an inquest and
(40:53):
put them on notice there for this podcast, and I'll
look at my producer to hear that we might revisit
this one, will put it out, but we also might
revisit it after the inquest and just see see if
anything has been achieved. And people listening to listening to
(41:13):
the podcast before the inquest will know that we'll be
watching closely about what potential lessons.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
I mean, the whole idea of light up, the whole,
the ritual, the whole everything is to get the support
and the backing. We need as much people behind us
to help me. I need help, and I'm not saying
I'm going to change the world. I want justice for
my daughter, and that's where it's got to start. First.
(41:41):
I can't move forward for any I've had a lot
of people try and reach out to me. I'm sorry,
I can't. I don't have that energy for anyone else.
This is purely for me right now, about Audrey and
getting her story of who she is, that she was
not in a domestic violence relationship. She didn't. I did
not know this gentleman, who Audrey is, this amazing young woman,
(42:04):
and that we get answers and there's change and there's justice,
and there's some kind of I don't know, Like as
I said, I really still don't exactly know, but it
will come. It'll come what you're looking for, it'll come
(42:25):
because I'm not I'm not settling for I will not.
I will not.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
I Look, I'm not an expert on dealing with the
emotional trauma, but I've seen enough of it in my
time in homicide, and I think what people. You can't
even articulate what you want?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
You know where I want to live?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
You want to grab it, you want to you want this.
You want to find out what's happened. You want to
be know exactly what's happened, understand why it happened, how
it happened, and.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, I want accountability to accountability from the all the
accountability from what they have done, what they have done,
they have done. He murdered my daughter, but he would
never have done that if they actually locked him up.
That's where it starts. It's a rippling effect that people
just can't This is where the heart goes. This is
(43:17):
what I'm saying. If someone's in a job constantly where
it just becomes replacing and they just they become hard,
and they make mistakes and they pulled back for a
little while, have a holiday, go and do what you
have to do, and learn to have a heart again,
because when you start getting into that place where you
don't have a heart, you're not helping anyone. And for
(43:37):
me having a heart and how I feel about my daughter,
I'm going to rock this world and I'm telling you
I'm going to get justice because I won't stop. I
will not stop.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
To me, it looks like Audrey has been caught up
in this domestic violence discussions that we've had in the
and she wasn't even in the relationship. She was just
an innocent person that was caught up in the wrong
place at the wrong time by this creep that's looking
at the inflicting violence on someone and she she's been
one of the innocent people caught up in this. So
(44:12):
all the discussion about domestic violence, this is a potential
flow on effect from it. And if we're going to
get touch and in that.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
We've we've got a nonprofit charity set up, and as
I said, when I get justice, I will be putting
myself hopefully be able to do that move forward into
Audrey's nonprofit charity court stand with Audrey, and that is
(44:41):
a rippling effect for all my friends and all the
people around me that need to do what they need
to do here. But for me, I need to just
focus one hundred and ten percent on Audrey and then
later we'll see what happens. But I'm there anyway, all
the time, for all of them, all her friends, everyone,
I'm the one that's picking up the phone and talking
(45:03):
to them.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Well, I can see the emotion, I can see the passion,
and I can feel the anger, and I can feel
the energy, and I can feel the sadness all that's
coming across. And you said that you're not a helicopter parent,
You're a lioness.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
What do I do when it's all finished? Like what
do I do when I have to stop?
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Like?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
How how do I live?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Like?
Speaker 2 (45:25):
How how do I breathe?
Speaker 3 (45:27):
How do I get up? How do I when I
start feeling this, when those roles come in and I
can't stop them.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I know how painful it is. And I put that
wall up, and I've taken up cigarettes and I have
a cigarette and I have a cigarette because I need
to block this to be fine. The I need to
find the strength. And I'm looking after myself. I'm eating,
not sweat, but I'm eating, and I'm sleeping as much
(46:04):
as I can. And I've got so much support around me.
I'm going about it in all the right ways.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
I learned something about the grief on the podcast a
couple of episodes ago. And it's funny you think you've
seen all sides of it and understand it. And someone
who had been through horrific circumstances said. The kind of
thing that was said to the person was how are
you feeling today? Because when people come up, and I thought,
(46:39):
it's not a bad way because you are going to
go on that emotional rollcase and it's just a check
in how you're feeling. Today Today might be a little
bit better than yesterday, it might be worse than tomorrow,
who knows. But yeah, how you're feeling today? And the
lesson I took away from that is that you've just
got to take each day as it comes.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Well, I can't answer that. That's a hard one for me.
For me would be more, tell me about Audrey. Tell
me about Audrey, Give me something about Audrey. Let's not
focus on me on how I feel because I don't
know how to answer that, and I can't go I'm
great or I'm shit. So excuse me, but do you
know what I mean? Like I can't. I'm not a liar.
(47:20):
I say it how it is. So I don't want
to sit there and go, oh I'm fine or oh
no I'm not. I don't want to be heavy. I
don't want to be this. I just want to go
tell someone, walk up and just go tell me about Audry,
or tell me this about Audery, or talk about Audrey.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
You told a lot of people about Audrey the day. Yeah,
plays rugby league, swims after sharks rides, made the bikes,
travels overseas, going skiing.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
No, she did everything, playing the violin, playing the piano,
playing guitar, you know, traveling. She just rock climbing, you know,
like she worked two jobs, going to university doing a
nine man. This girl just.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
These are the people of the worlds.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
That's what she got into the navy. And how good
would she have done? And she wanted you know, her
goals three five novels but a year which were all inspiration,
you know, how to change the thinking of brain, and
how to motivate and all this to do I man,
which she succeeded to buy a house at the end
(48:25):
of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
You wouldn't doubt it.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh, she already had thirty grand in the bank. Like,
and she worked two jobs, could you RSL and Kunolla RSL?
You know, like she was doing uni goal from one
to another, training for the affluon up at five o'clock
every morning, doing spin classes and then running. Getting up
in the morning doing a spin class, going running, doing
in a sunrise swim, coming home doing of that, then
(48:50):
going for another run, jumping in the ocean for sunset.
She was a wise soul, certainly amazing beautiful. That was
just she was always a blossom. She's a natural beauty.
But she found herself and she was on that way.
She was happy, she was bribing and he took that
(49:12):
from her and us And how I cannot find someone
like her? A kid?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
That's how they found finances? Is it?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
As I said, I'll be told, this is probably my purpose.
I didn't come into this world to fight, but I
will be.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Well the person that you bought into the world short
short time. But gee, she burnt bright.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
She sure did.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
She's left an indelible mark. Or the concert that Gosford Stadium,
I call it Gosford Stadium, poly Tech outdoor head up,
both birds of take. Oh my god, she'd be smiling
looking looking at that.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Oh yeah, it should be at the front. And that
was the thing. She loved a music. It was so
funny like she you know, she was so romantic and
loved and had such high standards of you know, love
and you know what she wanted in so many ways.
But you know, then there was the music, like she
just loved that, you know. And that's why everyone used
(50:38):
to think she drank because you just like, but she didn't,
you know, like she just lived high correct.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Well, she she had a concert there and other things
that they've they've done for it. She's not going to
be forgotten, and that's certainly why you're you're you're here.
She's not.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Definitely not, definitely not, and you know, and I want
her to her be the girl she is, not the
girl that was taken at the Creek by domestic violence.
I want her to be Audrey. And I want everyone
to learn who she is and what she is and
(51:15):
take a book, take a page out of her book,
because honestly, she was one of her kind. And if
you was to say that things happen in a reason
and this was her time, I would take that and
say yep. But the fact that is the way she
was taken. I have reached out to so many religions
(51:38):
and just try to get there, get a feel on
how this is. And nothing makes sense. No one can
tell me so, And I'm the one that has to
live every day of that last vision and how she passed,
(52:01):
and how it's just been put in a filing cabinet
and put to bed.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
It won't be put to bed, no, it's more. I look,
I've got to thank you for coming on the podcast.
I know Undernard and how hard it is for you
to talk about the answers that you want will try
and get bad chances.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
So I need to get there, and you need to
be honest a little enough. I know that the whole
team behind is there.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
I wouldn't like to be taking you guys on. We
might we might wrap it up here, So thanks for
your time.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Thanksgiving
The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.
Detective see a side of life. The average person is
never exposed her I spent thirty four years as a cop.
For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.
That's what I did for a living. I was a
homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,
I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.
(00:23):
The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories
from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw
and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some
of the content and language might be confronting. That's because
no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.
Join me now as I take you into this world.
(00:46):
Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Kathleen Kirby,
the mother of murdered nineteen year old Audrey Griffin. I
travel up to the central case of New South Wales
to meet Kathleen and talk about the murder of her
beautiful daughter. I wish I wasn't meeting Kathleen under these circumstances.
See seven months ago, her daughter Audrey was murdered by
(01:06):
a stranger when she was walking home late one night.
That man, Adrian Torrens, was out on bail and had
an extensive history of domestic violence. Audrey's death was initially
ruled by police as a misadventure, but Kathleen knew that
wasn't the case and took matters into her own hands.
If she hadn't, Torrens might have gotten away with murder.
(01:28):
Here is part two of my chat with Kathleen the
CCTV footage which led to the breakthrough. What involvement did
you have him pushing for finding out more about the
TV footage?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, once again, when I went in to see the footage,
which they didn't show me the footage that they released
the following day, which I asked, I want to see
all the footage everything. I want to see what stay
of mind she.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Is so okay and what we're breaking down here CCTV
footage taken from businesses along everything they had people walking.
You've gone in the police station and said I want
to see it, and they.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Took them three weeks to get back to me to
say okay, come in, and then I'm sitting down and
they're showing me bits and pieces and I said, so
where's the club. It's upstairs. Didn't I just say I
wanted to see all of it. So I see all that,
I see parts of it. I walk out of there.
I'm like, Okay, she's happy, she's not drunk, she's not dizzy,
she's not falling over the place. You know, what I
(02:31):
have just thought is that she would have had jet leg.
And then when we've seen that video that was taken
off her to a friend and she's tired, it's two thirty,
she's just done Sydney mum out all night walking home
to thirty jet legged. We did things, as I said
(02:51):
to you, to have tests done. We had to cremate
our daughter in a way that no parent would have
to make that choice. And then to find out now
they had that footage the day after that, they released
(03:14):
three and a half weeks and they hadn't shown me.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Post more than you're talking about there, And it's invasive
when the postmortems have done. If they were treating it
as suspicious, I'd have to say just that there would
be a post more than conducted that needs to be
conducted unless there was some extremely extenuating the extenuating circumstances.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Do you know they said to me. What I've been
informed is that when I came back to them and said,
that's when they said, maybe we should start looking at
this a bit more. When I went back after seeing
Audrey and I said to them, this is not that's
when from what I've been told now, is when they said,
that's when they started looking into it more.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's what you're being told now when you're pushing with
the CCTV footage, what happened after you've gone in and
causing concerns you want to look at it, and demanding
to look at the CCTV footage, What's what's happened?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
The next day they released they released the photo of
him walking behind her and two young girls in front.
The young girls in front lasted a couple of hours,
I think, on social media, and I think that got
shut down quite quick and his photo was still there. Now,
this is where it comes a bit of a blur.
(04:38):
I remember ringing him and saying, why didn't I see
that footage? And that's when he was saying to me,
we didn't find it irrelevant at.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
The time, didn't find it relevant because he was.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Twenty meters behind. And when I also said, when I
was there, have you got the footage? What about all
the footage between here and here? He said, well, we
don't need that, we've got that, and I said, well,
I've got footage from two shops one of the real
estates my girlfriend works in that said to me, Kathleen,
(05:10):
we've got footage. You want me to have a look,
and it's him walking behind her that they didn't have.
And when I said to them, why haven't you got that?
And he said, because we've got this and that we've
got enough footage. And I said, well, how do you
know that something didn't happen in between that time?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Just help me break that and that for a bit.
So they've got footage where he's walking behind orgery. This
is coming from the direction of Gossip Hotel. Correct, we
know where Audrey's Body's been found, direct aeron the creek.
And them telling you that there's no need to look
(05:49):
at other footage because we've got footage.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I don't know if they said they didn't need to
look at footage that from when I said, oh, I've
got this footage, why haven't you got it? And they said, oh,
we've got footage from all the other places we didn't
need that one. And to me, it's like any anyone
else could have been involved, any like, wouldn't you just
get all the footage?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
I would say, yes, yes, you would in.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
That strip because it's not that amount of shops.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Well we say it's five or six kilometers, and that's
just my guestimate on how far it might be a
little bit less. There's not that many shops. There's banker shops,
and we're talking, you know, two hundred meters work for shops,
the hotel and some service stations, those type of things.
So it's not like looking the main street of a
(06:34):
city going through every business. Okay, so how would you
describe your thoughts about the police what they were doing
at this point in time.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I was appalled, absolutely. I was beside myself. I was
beside myself constantly. We all were. Everybody was by this stage.
Everyone was just you know a lot of people were
quite because you know, we didn't know, but everyone in
the background was like, no way, no way, you know,
(07:09):
and here myself and the girls that we were all
in the hotel room were just constantly just at the
police station, just you know, and seeing them, seeing me
doing the work that I was doing, they would concern
for me as well.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
To give a sense, and it might be hard to
give exact numbers, But in that three weeks from the
time Audrey's Body's been found until the release of the
CCTV footage, how many conversations would you say, you and
the old girlfriends acting on your every day?
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Every day? Every day, maybe a couple of times a day.
So I was constantly on the phone to them, when
am I seeing this? When am I picking up this?
Where's her phone? Where's her bag? Where's this?
Speaker 1 (07:54):
What?
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I was constantly on the phone.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
To them, So twenty you.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
Oh, easy, it'll be Look, we could definitely say once a.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Day, but even more would have your mind been put
at ease if the police had said to you during
those frequent contacts, look, we are looking at this is
suspiciously Absolutely, was that ever said to you. Never, So,
despite all the stuff that you've brought to them and
where you've questioned what's been done, there was no point
(08:25):
and I'm talking up until when the photo was released,
no point where they've said, look, we've decided to look
at it in more detail. You have never told me
ever at once did you give them the opportunity to
tell that, Like I'm thinking, was that you just ringing
up and angry at them and hanging up or did
you never hung up? I was always okay, so you
(08:45):
gave them the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
I was always I you know, yes, So maybe it's
a few times that i'd raised my voice, but I
always treat them with respect in an anger way of
a mother grieving. But I was never I. I went
in their professional in ways that I needed them behind me.
I didn't want to burn bridges in any way. So
(09:06):
I had that in my mind at all times, and
I had the girls with me, and to the point
even with my girlfriend who's a solicitor, walked out and see, Kathleen,
you handle that so well? Do you know what I mean? So? No?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
So, And why I pose that question? There was just
opportunities if they had changed their mind, where they could
have told you, like I'm thinking of them many times
they trying to justify my own mind. How why they're
approaching it that way? And I think if if you're
coming in aggressively, they might have been able to tell
you that they've turned it round. But you're saying that
there was.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Even if that was the case, get a counselor in
and sit down with me, give me support, but to
let me go through everything I did and doing what
I had to do to find out if she'd been
drugged or pointed or drugged or she was intoxicated before
we cremated Audrey. That should never have happened. I should
(10:00):
never have had to do that.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, And I'm not sure if this is helping you
however you want to look at it. But if it
was treated as suspicious, that would have been those types
of tests that would have been done.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
They had the footage of the day after, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
But they potentially would need to still gather that evidence.
So the foto's gone out. So you've asked for media attention,
you've asked for media release early just after Audrey's body
was found. You've harassed and chased up your own CCTV footage.
(10:34):
You've gone to the police asking what's on it. You've
asked to see what's on it, You've seen it, it's
been released, and then.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
What so then it's released and we're informed to come
into and at this stage, I'm with my father. He's
passed pretty much on his last breath, and right at
the hospital with my family, and I'm asked to come
into the Surrey Hill's police station. So Trevor and I
(11:03):
arrived to Surrey Hill's police station later in that afternoon,
and a different detective who's now taking over the case
said to me, we've arrested don't want to say his
name for the murder of Audrey. And I said, has
(11:29):
he confessed? And he said he's sleeping at the moment,
And then I said and then he said, sorry, he's
in custody with the We can't speak to him now
because he's in custody with the Aboriginal community. I was
(11:50):
then told that they were going to do what they
could and that they'd get support team. And I may
have had a phone call once or twice from someone
in all this going on that maybe once I think
she said she reached out. Trevor and I walked out,
(12:16):
no support. While he's sitting in there being protected. We
get to walk out at Sorry Hill's Police station without
daor to be murdered. He's been on the loose for
three weeks, he's been seen at the location, which they denied,
and we walk out of there and he gets protection.
(12:39):
Doesn't matter what color, they said, they said to us
as well, sorry that we've arrested him, that she scratched
him with her index finger on the face. We've got
DNA and we also have seven other people come forward
(13:00):
enough to arrest him.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
That potentially the way that handle that. I just clarify,
people in custody have rights, and where's my rights? Sitting
here hearing your story, I would imagine everyone else would
feel the same way and go, well, who cares. That's
(13:22):
the reality of the world.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
It's not reality. It's not reality. This is what we
need to change. And I get I understand what you're saying,
and I know what you're going to say, but it's
not reality. This is a man that's murdered my daughter
and we're left to walk out of there and he's
got a roof over his head and probably even feed
and someone protecting him, and where are we? That is
just wrong on every level. I'm sorry, I know, I
(13:46):
know what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You don't have to be sorry, and I can't argue
back on You're entitled to those views and fully understandable.
He was charged a couple a couple of things at
points I want to make here on the charging that
He's DNA were found under a fingernails, whinding it right
(14:09):
back to the couple of weeks before when her Audrey's
body was found. Checking the fingernails for a potential murder investigation?
Is just homicide? One oh one? The fact that he's
DNA were found under the fingernails causing me a concern
that that wasn't enough to prompt that there's a thorough
(14:29):
homicide investigation. He was only in custody for four days,
three and a bit before he killed himself in prison.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
How does that happen? How does someone get a razor
blade to take their life in prison? How does someone
that's been on a five day bender from what I've
been informed the week before, on drugs and alcohol and
put in jail and they turn and the counselors turn
around and say that he's not suicidal and put him
(15:00):
in a normal cell where he's handed a raizor blade
to take his life. How does that happen with a
history that he has.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
I can't answer that. I know practices have put in
place to prevent that type of thing, but I'm sure
that will be encompassed in a cranial investigation. It would
be treated as a death in custody and an investigation
will be conducted conducted that way from an emotional point
of view, from your point of view and Trevors and
(15:30):
friends and family, how did it make you feel to
know the person that's been arrested and charged with Audrey's
murder has taken that part?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Helleljah, thank you. At the time, we were having a
ritual for Audrey down at the beach where the whole
of terrible people for Miles. I don't know if you've
seen it.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
I've seen it. I've seen that many people that.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Are people couldn't even get there. It was like people
were coming from Sydney on the train. They just couldn't
get there. That was the response that people and we
found out. So that day at four point fifty we
were told the ceremony started at five. At four point fifty,
we got the phone call to say that he'd taken
his life. So ten minutes prior, I lose my father
(16:19):
that night and then when i'm you know, when they
phone me to say how are you feeling? And I said, well,
you know what, I'm happy. I'm happy because he's off
the street and he's gone. Did I feel that way later.
Probably not, But then from what I've been informed, there
may be a lot of things he may have said
to me if I did see him face to face
(16:41):
that I probably never would have come back from. So
at the end of the day, yes, yes, he will
never be out to hurt another child, or another woman
or another man, whoever that'll be.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
I can understand how difficult the whole whole situation, if.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
The whole situation is just appalling, to think that he
was out on the street for three weeks and hidden,
you know, he was hidden that I while he was missing,
he'd been up at casino.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
How are you aware of that?
Speaker 2 (17:18):
I was told by the constable.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Right, did the police say anything to you about how
it's gone from misadventure to murder? Did was there any
apologies or any any oh?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
God knows, God knows?
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Was there any discussions? Did you?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Like I'm the one that's always brought it up. How
how do you go from you know, when we went
to the coroner's report, which I brought my doctor with
me so she could actually explain the information clearly to
me so that we could understand. How did it? Ever?
(17:54):
From what I see of Audrey, how was that ever
tread as an adventure, and then how did you come
to the conclusion of this? Yes, they explained all that,
but still to me, how did they come to that
conclusion misadventure when you you only had to see her?
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Well, I can't comment on that because I didn't see Audrey,
but I respect your comments as Audrey's mother, But on
the circumstances, I don't see how you could write that
off a misadventure. You've got to keep an open mind,
to open mind to things. So in light of all
(18:36):
that's happened, have you had to sit down with any
senior police.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yes, we've had many of interviews with Chris Min's yes man.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
So we're talking the premiere of the police minister, so
that the high, high level meetings correct.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And then there was Karen web police commissioner correct which
she looked me in the eye, which tears as a woman,
as a mother with a broken heart, and said to me, Kathleen,
we had him locked up, they just let him out.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah. Well, that's that's another part of this whole story
that concerns me. And I'm not being critical of Karen
Webb here, the former former commissioner, but I'm somewhat confused.
You might be able to add some clarity to it.
But when he was, and I'll respect the fact you
(19:34):
don't want his name mentioned, so he doesn't deserve it, okay.
When he was charged with Audrey's murder, he was also
charged with eleven other counts of the breaching AVOs and
domestic violence related related matters. My understanding, he was put
before the courts in October, granted the corrections order and released.
(19:58):
It was fairly stringent, and then he was sentenced on
the sixteenth of January correctional orders. These breaches of the
avas related to his former wife. And I've also picked
up on the information that she's saying that she was
(20:20):
concerned about the amount of times that she contacted the
police asking whether he's been located, and he hadn't been located.
My concerns, and this is speculating here that he can't
be that difficult to find because he was committing the
fences by using his telephone.
Speaker 2 (20:38):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Now, if someone's got their telephone, as police officers, we
can find them.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
This is what I'm saying about the location. When my
girlfriend saw him at the location the week later, I said,
when I was driving up for the ritual that day,
and I drove past the creek. I was coming from
Sydney and I was driving past to come up to Terrgill.
And I went past and I saw all the police there,
and I pulled in and I said, what's going on.
(21:04):
They said, we're doing a reenactment. And I walked up
to one of the detectives that was being there from
day dot and said to her, I've been informed a
girlfriend had phoned in about seeing him the week after,
and she came in and did a statement because obviously
by this stage she saw the photo and identified the
clothing he was wearing. She said to me, yes, his
(21:27):
phone diged to the location, right.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
They denied that later when your girlfriend said she saw
saw him, he was there, that when they were doing
the re enactment. Was that after he'd been arrested. Yes, okay,
I understand that.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
This was the day of the ritual.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Getting back to the offenses that he was wanted for now,
I've heard the Commission of Web say that, yeah, we
put him before, put him before the courts, and I
understand that. I understand the frustration from the police, like
we can't control the courts. We've got to accept the
court's decisions. I'm just curious how long, with eleven breaches
(22:11):
of avas, how long police were looking for him before?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Correct? That's what I think too.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Audrey's murder and what efforts were done to find him?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Correct?
Speaker 1 (22:23):
When were those offenses committed? Because I look at his
criminal history. Well, I've seen of his criminal history and
the past offenses and the threats that were made to
his ex wife. They're concerning in anyone's level. You don't
have to be a cop to think this person's potentially dangerous.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
I want to know exactly what happened from day dot.
I want to know exactly exactly what was done. Why
we were told it was a misadventure, Why it was
put down as a misadventure. Why nothing was ever said
to me, even if they, like you said, if I
was a lunatic or whatever, and they felt they couldn't
(23:04):
approach me, Why didn't I get the support so that song.
Why did they allow me to come in there knowing
I was very stressed and I was looking for answers.
At no stage did they ever say to me, Kathleen,
we're looking into this, or we're doing this, We're going
to look or even we're going to try and do this,
or we're going to do this nothing misadventure. Would that
(23:29):
make absolutely make a difference, absolutely absolutely if I knew
they were looking. If I knew they were looking, and
I would still wouldn't stopped myself because obviously if they
were looking, why is it that I found we found
all this stuff? How do you not find a phone?
(23:49):
How do you not go down the lot? That's what
I said to him. How did you not go down
there in low tide? He said, because we've got the divers.
So three people on three different days have gone down
there scouting, and yet no one thinks to go and
look for low type. But yes, let's pay for the
government to go and send some divers down there. Lets
them do that when all they had to do is
go down low tide and they would have found it. Strange.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
I think they are just in my opinion, I think
they want the divers in there as well, even at
low tide. These are the type of things. But yeah,
as I said, if you can't find the phone of
a girl that's found de sea in water, you'd be
looking at Okay, Well, there's a potential something suspicious there
where is the phone? Because we've we keep our phones
(24:33):
in their pockets or keep them close to us. Where
is where is the phone? Was it the robbery?
Speaker 2 (24:38):
Can I just say in regards to that, So in
this time that I'm stressing about the phone, where's the phone?
Where's a phone? This is when I picked the car
up and I found the computer. So when you think
they'd go through the computer which I found on her.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
iPad linked to the phone.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
No, that she'd phoned a cab, So why didn't they
find that? Why didn't they go through her computer and
have a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
You're sorry you're found on her computer when you've gone from.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Her computer, she's got another iPad at home. The iPad,
so they're all connected. She made a call to an
uber and I don't know if it turned up or
what happened, but she'd made that call. And when I
said to them, why you know, my consum was, why
didn't they go into that computer? Like it's linked to
her phone. Anything that was on that phone would have
been lenked. She would have known who she was talking to,
(25:25):
who she had, you know, all that stuff, and they
didn't take the computer.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Is that? At what point did they take a car
straight away? Where was from?
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Terrible?
Speaker 1 (25:36):
It was that terrible? So they sees that that straight away.
Do you hope to at some point in time sit
down with police that take ownership of what has happened
in regards to this investigation or from your perspective and
until we hear from the police, we don't know their
(25:56):
side of the story from your perspective. Failings in an investigation?
Do you have to have a sit down and go
through those so this type of thing doesn't happen again?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
No, why they've done it? What's going to be done?
Like when I asked if the constable that was there
the day that we found Audrey, and he walked up
to me and he said, sorry for your condolence, and
then he was telling you so when I said to him,
I wanted to you know, like I wanted to put it.
I was angry. I want to put a complaint in.
And they when he is being addressed, is that's been sorted?
(26:31):
Do you really need to make it further? And I
kind of went, well, Okay, well it's been addressed.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Maybe not see I see something like that, And I said,
I'd be honest with you. I see people in situations
like that, young young police. They don't know how.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
He's not young.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Don't wreck my version of events. Okay, he might be inexperienced,
just but inexperience some people don't know how. So if
it's a clumsiness in the way to talk to a victim, perhaps.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
I'm sorry, Okay, might take that all right, don't be
in the industry. He's a police officer, for God's sake.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
I had that view and look where it got me.
You well, there's no higher honor as an investigator, as
a police officer than too and higher honor and responsibility
to investigate someone's death. And you know where people are
making comments that you choose the wrong word, and that
(27:30):
can be like a triggering effect for someone that's been
through what you've gone through. I see how mistakes can
be made, and genuine mistakes like that what I'm looking
at from what you've told me, And I think with this,
and we don't normally go this far, but I think
we'll reach out to the police and see if if
they can give their perspective on a couple of things,
(27:52):
because some of the things that you've told me are
quite quite shocking, and I think it is a failing
in regards to the way matters should be investigated. And
see what they say. You have said you don't want
or it doesn't matter because it's happened.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Oh no, I'm sorry. I'll probably rephrase it. It's not
that I don't want to because at the coroner's report,
that's when I want it to come out. That's when
I want to hear it. I want to hear it
all the excuses. I mean, I suppose it's probably good
to hear what their excuses are.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, a speculation here. I don't know what was acting
on their mind, but I know when I was involved
in it, I would say to junior police and bosses
that I respect people that have seeing you to me,
you make a mistake, a genuine mistake, and will support
you like a genuine mistake, so a wrong assumption or
(28:46):
different things, genuine mistake. I've seen the power of them,
and in matters that I've been involved in where the
commissioner has come up and apologized to some families and
it meant a lot to them, and it was as
simple as we're sorry, we could have done better, correct
and that meant it didn't fix what was being done,
(29:08):
but he did also say and will learn from these mistakes,
So that I thought was very powerful, and that took
about ten years to get the commissioner to come to
this community and talk like that. But I know from
their point of view, and I think they're comfortable with
me speaking on their behalf. It did help them at
least there was some acknowledgment that the mistakes were being made.
(29:30):
Anyone that's listening to the podcasts to our chat here
can hear the pain that you're going through and what
you've been through, and the circumstances added to that pain
is when police haven't done their job or you don't
believe they've done their job, and that just adds adds
(29:50):
to the trauma.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Absolutely, like I don't know who I am anymore. I
don't need you know. People say how are you? How
do I answer that. I get up every day, I
get dressed, I move on. I do what I have
to do. I went to my doctor last night and
(30:15):
she's like, are you using anything? Are you drinking? And
I'm like, no, I'm not drinking, I'm not taking drugs.
I'm not using any medication. I would swim to clear
my head. I can't do that. Now I haven't been
able to get back into the ocean and swim with
my friends. She has recommended that she's amazing and once
(30:47):
again she's behind us as well, and it is going
to be following this journey with me, and she has come,
she will be coming to the coroner's report. Well, what's
happening now is up every day. And she said to me,
you know at early stage when she said to me, look, Kathleen,
(31:09):
you need to own, you need to accept for you
to start moving forward. I haven't even started to grieve.
I can't talk to my How many people say, do
you talk to her? Do you do this?
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Do that?
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I have got a war so high. I know she's
with me. I love her every day, but I have
got a war that is just protecting me so high
because I need. I need some justice for my daughter.
And if I crumble, I will crumble. And when I crumble,
I know I am so scared to stop. I am
(31:47):
so scared to stop motivating or I can't be alone.
You know I can't. I'm not. I don't know who
I am and I don't know who I'm ever going
to be again. And I know people say time heills,
but I'm sorry. I don't see that. I don't see
how my life has any purpose. And don't get me wrong,
(32:12):
I'm not you know, as I said, I'm not doing drugs,
I'm not doing alcohol, I'm not suicidal, I'm not anything.
But my life is not looking pretty. And for me,
every day I get up is just purely for my
daughter to get justice, because she is not a number.
(32:33):
She is an amazing young woman that I will fight
for until we get justice. I'm not even sure what
that looks like yet.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
I was going to ask you what in your mind?
What is justice?
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Justice is? Once again, those little steps of people like
him apologizing. What are the government? They all get to
sit there and just tick their little boxes and just
move on. Where's the heart? Where is the heart? There's
no heart, there's no And for me and Trevor, where
(33:14):
the case is finished as far as they're concerned, because
he murdered himself and now it's just put in a
filing cabinet and put away and we're just there to
just And how does that happen? How does someone let
someone out that has a record and a history to
do that to it? Not a girl that's been in
(33:35):
any kind of trouble with domestic violence. Didn't know. The
man takes a woman who was going to serve for
our country and a beautiful soul. He murders her. He
takes her life away from her. He takes his life
and it gets put in a filing cabinet and off
(33:56):
we go. Where is where is the justice for her?
Where is the justice for her friends who found her?
That the support? There's been no support whatsoever for them. Children.
They're all struggling. They're nineteen, the kids, they're nineteen years
of age. Where's the support? The government have done this,
(34:18):
they allowed him out. They need to take some responsibility
and instead of keep fixing the people that are damaged
in regards to drugs and alcohol and all that stuff,
how about helping the people that are good people that
have been out there. They're doing well, they're going to university,
they're trying to make something their life, and they've been
(34:39):
put in a situation that the government's put them in
and there's not one bit of support, no counseling, no nothing,
not even for me, but for them. It breaks my
heart to think at nineteen, these young girls have to
go through this. That's what the Where's the platform and
where's the heart?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
Well, look in the answer to the questions, what is
justice wears the heart? All these failings of the system.
I look at it, breaking it down in parts. How
was it investigated? Now, if mistakes were made, we've got
(35:19):
to learn from those mistakes because someone else is going
to be sitting in And I know this from my
time in homicide. If we don't learn, someone else will
be sitting in your position because more mistakes will be made.
I have had so many families reach out to me
when I was in the cops and when I'm out
of the cops, saying, we're not sure if this has
been done properly. Did the police check this. I've been
(35:41):
involved in investigations that were written off as misadventure and
turned out to be something something more more sinister. I've
been involved in it. So I think that's an important
platform that's about justice making sure that these type of
things are handled properly. Everyone makes mistakes, and I don't
get the sense and in all my conversations with you
(36:03):
haven't been beating up on them. Want this person that person,
You're just going this is what's happened. It shouldn't happen
and by talking about it, hopefully it won't happen and
people understand there is a responsibility that comes with investigating
someone's death.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
But what about also to the support And that's the
part too, Like, yes, the police, they've done it, they'll
get a slap on the wrist, off they go, and
you know, obviously these people have been involved, they're going
to be more alert of course after this, especially having
someone like me that's just not backing down. What about support?
(36:38):
Where's that?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Where's the support were you put in contact when it
was confirmed that Audrey had been murdered? The victims of homicide?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Did they a gracehouse? Amazing? Look, look they're great, they're great,
they're beautiful, they're great.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
But the other people will be okay, But.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
Without being disrespectful, I'm talking to somebody that hasn't And look,
and as I said, I'm not here to rubbish or
do anyone, but I'm not talking to people that are
in a situation who have Oh I don't know how
(37:25):
to put this across. They're great and you know, the
support in many ways they've been great. Anything to do
with that situation For me, I'm like, oh my god,
do you actually have children. How can you sit here
and say to me, we've granted you twenty hours of counseling,
(37:51):
we can only one I'm unlyavailable between nine and five. Sorry,
I can only have a breakdown between nine and five.
I should be twenty four hours a day. I should
be for the rest of my life if I need it.
I'm not out there doing drugs and taking our cal
I'm trying my best.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
I hear what you're saying, and you're a supports wrong.
You're a victim of crime and the support is not
adequate in regards to it. So that's something again, it's
worthwhile worthwhile raising whether I don't know whether it can
be improved or how it could be improved, but I
do take on board what you're saying there, and the
(38:30):
type of help you need might vary from what it
might not be what other people need. Each trauma is
handled differently by each each person. With the other people
affected by crime, we need to have someone that they
can go to to see are they entitled to? And
(38:50):
I can only imagine Audrey's friends that what they've been through,
and especially the ones that were at the scene, and
how they're coping with it. In regards to we've talked
about the investigation. I think something that's really worthwhile finding
out is hold it. Because we talk tough, we're very
(39:11):
good at talking tough about we're cracking down on domestic violence,
and all these women have been killed by their ex
partners and different things like that. I want to know
and I hopefully, hopefully it will come out in the
inquest about the person that killed Audrey? When did he
commit the offenses he was charged with, and how long
(39:32):
he was on the run for and what efforts were
made to locate him? Because to me, they looked like
that person was a serious risk of committing a violent
or significant offense. What efforts were made after he's been
granted bail from court, if he's committing other offenses, what
efforts were made to locate him? And it's not that
(39:54):
easy for people to hide these days.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
They retrieved that conversation from his phone what he did
to my daughter, confessed to what he did. How are
these people not accountable? How do these people hide him
for three weeks, get a phone call and nothing can
be done? How is that? How is that?
Speaker 1 (40:16):
Right now? Is this a hearing for the cornial inquest
on the twenty third of October, or is it the mention?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
I guess again once again, I think I think it's
just a meeting where we catch up. It's not a hearing.
It's definitely not a hearing.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Okay, so it's just a meeting. I think that before
the meeting you gave their well planned with These are
the questions I want asks and have those document them.
Have them. These are the questions I hope you can't demand,
but you can hope there are from an inquest and
(40:53):
put them on notice there for this podcast, and I'll
look at my producer to hear that we might revisit
this one, will put it out, but we also might
revisit it after the inquest and just see see if
anything has been achieved. And people listening to listening to
(41:13):
the podcast before the inquest will know that we'll be
watching closely about what potential lessons.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
I mean, the whole idea of light up, the whole,
the ritual, the whole everything is to get the support
and the backing. We need as much people behind us
to help me. I need help, and I'm not saying
I'm going to change the world. I want justice for
my daughter, and that's where it's got to start. First.
(41:41):
I can't move forward for any I've had a lot
of people try and reach out to me. I'm sorry,
I can't. I don't have that energy for anyone else.
This is purely for me right now, about Audrey and
getting her story of who she is, that she was
not in a domestic violence relationship. She didn't. I did
not know this gentleman, who Audrey is, this amazing young woman,
(42:04):
and that we get answers and there's change and there's justice,
and there's some kind of I don't know, Like as
I said, I really still don't exactly know, but it
will come. It'll come what you're looking for, it'll come
(42:25):
because I'm not I'm not settling for I will not.
I will not.
Speaker 1 (42:31):
I Look, I'm not an expert on dealing with the
emotional trauma, but I've seen enough of it in my
time in homicide, and I think what people. You can't
even articulate what you want?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
You know where I want to live?
Speaker 1 (42:46):
You want to grab it, you want to you want this.
You want to find out what's happened. You want to
be know exactly what's happened, understand why it happened, how
it happened, and.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
Yeah, I want accountability to accountability from the all the
accountability from what they have done, what they have done,
they have done. He murdered my daughter, but he would
never have done that if they actually locked him up.
That's where it starts. It's a rippling effect that people
just can't This is where the heart goes. This is
(43:17):
what I'm saying. If someone's in a job constantly where
it just becomes replacing and they just they become hard,
and they make mistakes and they pulled back for a
little while, have a holiday, go and do what you
have to do, and learn to have a heart again,
because when you start getting into that place where you
don't have a heart, you're not helping anyone. And for
(43:37):
me having a heart and how I feel about my daughter,
I'm going to rock this world and I'm telling you
I'm going to get justice because I won't stop. I
will not stop.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
To me, it looks like Audrey has been caught up
in this domestic violence discussions that we've had in the
and she wasn't even in the relationship. She was just
an innocent person that was caught up in the wrong
place at the wrong time by this creep that's looking
at the inflicting violence on someone and she she's been
one of the innocent people caught up in this. So
(44:12):
all the discussion about domestic violence, this is a potential
flow on effect from it. And if we're going to
get touch and in that.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
We've we've got a nonprofit charity set up, and as
I said, when I get justice, I will be putting
myself hopefully be able to do that move forward into
Audrey's nonprofit charity court stand with Audrey, and that is
(44:41):
a rippling effect for all my friends and all the
people around me that need to do what they need
to do here. But for me, I need to just
focus one hundred and ten percent on Audrey and then
later we'll see what happens. But I'm there anyway, all
the time, for all of them, all her friends, everyone,
I'm the one that's picking up the phone and talking
(45:03):
to them.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Well, I can see the emotion, I can see the passion,
and I can feel the anger, and I can feel
the energy, and I can feel the sadness all that's
coming across. And you said that you're not a helicopter parent,
You're a lioness.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
What do I do when it's all finished? Like what
do I do when I have to stop?
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Like?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
How how do I live?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Like?
Speaker 2 (45:25):
How how do I breathe?
Speaker 3 (45:27):
How do I get up? How do I when I
start feeling this, when those roles come in and I
can't stop them.
Speaker 2 (45:40):
I know how painful it is. And I put that
wall up, and I've taken up cigarettes and I have
a cigarette and I have a cigarette because I need
to block this to be fine. The I need to
find the strength. And I'm looking after myself. I'm eating,
not sweat, but I'm eating, and I'm sleeping as much
(46:04):
as I can. And I've got so much support around me.
I'm going about it in all the right ways.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
I learned something about the grief on the podcast a
couple of episodes ago. And it's funny you think you've
seen all sides of it and understand it. And someone
who had been through horrific circumstances said. The kind of
thing that was said to the person was how are
you feeling today? Because when people come up, and I thought,
(46:39):
it's not a bad way because you are going to
go on that emotional rollcase and it's just a check
in how you're feeling. Today Today might be a little
bit better than yesterday, it might be worse than tomorrow,
who knows. But yeah, how you're feeling today? And the
lesson I took away from that is that you've just
got to take each day as it comes.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Well, I can't answer that. That's a hard one for me.
For me would be more, tell me about Audrey. Tell
me about Audrey, Give me something about Audrey. Let's not
focus on me on how I feel because I don't
know how to answer that, and I can't go I'm
great or I'm shit. So excuse me, but do you
know what I mean? Like I can't. I'm not a liar.
(47:20):
I say it how it is. So I don't want
to sit there and go, oh I'm fine or oh
no I'm not. I don't want to be heavy. I
don't want to be this. I just want to go
tell someone, walk up and just go tell me about Audry,
or tell me this about Audery, or talk about Audrey.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
You told a lot of people about Audrey the day. Yeah,
plays rugby league, swims after sharks rides, made the bikes,
travels overseas, going skiing.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
No, she did everything, playing the violin, playing the piano,
playing guitar, you know, traveling. She just rock climbing, you know,
like she worked two jobs, going to university doing a
nine man. This girl just.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
These are the people of the worlds.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
That's what she got into the navy. And how good
would she have done? And she wanted you know, her
goals three five novels but a year which were all inspiration,
you know, how to change the thinking of brain, and
how to motivate and all this to do I man,
which she succeeded to buy a house at the end
(48:25):
of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
You wouldn't doubt it.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
Oh, she already had thirty grand in the bank. Like,
and she worked two jobs, could you RSL and Kunolla RSL?
You know, like she was doing uni goal from one
to another, training for the affluon up at five o'clock
every morning, doing spin classes and then running. Getting up
in the morning doing a spin class, going running, doing
in a sunrise swim, coming home doing of that, then
(48:50):
going for another run, jumping in the ocean for sunset.
She was a wise soul, certainly amazing beautiful. That was
just she was always a blossom. She's a natural beauty.
But she found herself and she was on that way.
She was happy, she was bribing and he took that
(49:12):
from her and us And how I cannot find someone
like her? A kid?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
That's how they found finances? Is it?
Speaker 2 (49:29):
As I said, I'll be told, this is probably my purpose.
I didn't come into this world to fight, but I
will be.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
Well the person that you bought into the world short
short time. But gee, she burnt bright.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
She sure did.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
She's left an indelible mark. Or the concert that Gosford Stadium,
I call it Gosford Stadium, poly Tech outdoor head up,
both birds of take. Oh my god, she'd be smiling
looking looking at that.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Oh yeah, it should be at the front. And that
was the thing. She loved a music. It was so
funny like she you know, she was so romantic and
loved and had such high standards of you know, love
and you know what she wanted in so many ways.
But you know, then there was the music, like she
just loved that, you know. And that's why everyone used
(50:38):
to think she drank because you just like, but she didn't,
you know, like she just lived high correct.
Speaker 1 (50:45):
Well, she she had a concert there and other things
that they've they've done for it. She's not going to
be forgotten, and that's certainly why you're you're you're here.
She's not.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Definitely not, definitely not, and you know, and I want
her to her be the girl she is, not the
girl that was taken at the Creek by domestic violence.
I want her to be Audrey. And I want everyone
to learn who she is and what she is and
(51:15):
take a book, take a page out of her book,
because honestly, she was one of her kind. And if
you was to say that things happen in a reason
and this was her time, I would take that and
say yep. But the fact that is the way she
was taken. I have reached out to so many religions
(51:38):
and just try to get there, get a feel on
how this is. And nothing makes sense. No one can
tell me so, And I'm the one that has to
live every day of that last vision and how she passed,
(52:01):
and how it's just been put in a filing cabinet
and put to bed.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
It won't be put to bed, no, it's more. I look,
I've got to thank you for coming on the podcast.
I know Undernard and how hard it is for you
to talk about the answers that you want will try
and get bad chances.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
So I need to get there, and you need to
be honest a little enough. I know that the whole
team behind is there.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
I wouldn't like to be taking you guys on. We
might we might wrap it up here, So thanks for
your time.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Thanksgiving
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