January 6, 2026 • 41 mins
This week on Inside Geneva, we discuss the key stories of 2025 that we know will continue to make the news in 2026.
“The top story of 2025 has been the cuts to the humanitarian aid sector. We knew that, with Donald Trump returning to the White House, cuts were likely, but we did not expect them to be so brutal,” says Swissinfo journalist Dorian Burkhalter.
“I wanted to talk about Gaza, which has been one of the main issues I’ve been writing about for the past two years. It has been, in the words of many humanitarians, the most horrific humanitarian crisis they have seen in their careers,” adds Reuters journalist Emma Farge.
“My story of 2025 is climate change. The village of Blatten was completely wiped off the map by a combination of a weak glacier and an unstable mountainside,” says Inside Geneva host Imogen Foulkes.
“Ukraine. Peace talks have taken place here in Geneva quite recently. All the talk of peace has eclipsed the humanitarian toll of the conflict: the large numbers of Ukrainians hunted down by drones,” says Nick Cumming-Bruce, contributor for The New York Times:
What do you think will be the key challenges for 2026? Join host Imogen Foulkes on Inside Geneva.
Get in touch!
- Email us at insidegeneva@swissinfo.ch
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For more stories on the international Geneva please visit www.swissinfo.ch/
Host: Imogen Foulkes
Production assitant: Claire-Marie Germain
Distribution: Sara Pasino
Marketing: Xin Zhang
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_09 (00:47):
This is Inside Geneva.
I'm your host, Imogen Folkes,and this is a production from
SwissInfo, the internationalpublic media company of
Switzerland.
In today's programme.
SPEAKER_15 (01:02):
The top story of 2025 has been cuts in the
humanitarian aid sector.
We knew with Donald Trump comingback to the White House, most
likely there would be importantcuts, but we just didn't expect,
I think, the scale of the cutsthat happened and also just how
brutal they were.
SPEAKER_06 (01:21):
I wanted to speak about Gaza, which has been one
of the main things that I'vebeen writing about for the past
two years.
It has been, in the words of somany humanitarians, the most
horrific humanitarian crisisthey've seen in their careers.
SPEAKER_09 (01:34):
My story of 2025 climate change, because I got
called out in May to cover thevillage of Blatten, which had
been completely wiped off themap by a combination of a weak
glacier and a weak mountainside.
SPEAKER_17 (01:52):
We ought to bring in Ukraine.
We did have Ukrainian peacetalks here in Geneva quite
recently.
All the talk of peace had tosome extent eclipsed the
humanitarian toll of thisconflict.
The large numbers of Ukrainiansthat had been hunted down by
these short-range drones.
SPEAKER_09 (02:10):
I want to talk about the subject of migration because
that's one unifying factor Ithink I know is going to be on
the agenda in 2026.
Hello and welcome to InsideGeneva.
And as we always do at this timeof year, I've got my colleagues
round the table to talk aboutthings that really resonated
(02:35):
with us, maybe really moved usin 2025 that we also think
probably have relevance for2026.
We hope it's not going to be toodepressing a program.
And to join me, I've got hereDorianne Borkhalter from
SwissInfo, the company thatproduces Inside Geneva, of
course.
I have Emma Farge of Reuters andNick Cumming Bruce, contributor
(03:00):
to New York Times.
Just one thing before weactually get going.
Our colleagues at Foreign Policyhave a new podcast series.
Here's a short burst of whatthat's all about.
SPEAKER_07 (03:16):
Hello, I'm Femi O'Kay, and I'm the new host of
The Negotiators, the show thatdraws back the curtain and some
of the most compellingnegotiations around the world.
This season, we're taking ascuba diving in the Red Sea,
walking the grounds of a luxuryresort in Uganda, and even
aboard an aging oil tankerfloating off the coast of Yemen.
SPEAKER_04 (03:36):
We were constantly monitored by drones overhead,
divers under the vessel, so itwas not exactly a high trust
operation.
SPEAKER_07 (03:42):
That's the negotiators available now,
wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_09 (03:46):
Our colleagues at Foreign Policy there with the
series The Negotiators, whichI'm sure listeners to Inside
Geneva will enjoy as well.
Okay, Dorian, we said we weregoing to talk about stories that
resonated with us.
What's yours?
SPEAKER_15 (04:02):
So for me, I think the top story of 2025 has been
uh cuts in the humanitarian aidsector.
Late today, the US StateDepartment suspended all foreign
assistance around the world forat least three months.
SPEAKER_16 (04:16):
Donald Trump suspended American foreign aid
on day one of his presidency.
The United Nations aid agency issaying that there could be 2,000
new cases of HIV due to theUSAID cuts.
SPEAKER_15 (04:30):
We knew with Donald Trump coming back to the White
House, most likely there wouldbe important cuts because the US
was funding about 40% of thehumanitarian sector.
But we just didn't expect, Ithink, the uh scale of the cuts
that happened and also just howbrutal they were.
And uh now we're at the end ofthe year, and it turns out
(04:52):
basically two-thirds of uh whatthe US used to give to the uh UN
has disappeared.
And it's also I think importantto uh point out that it's not
just the US, it's also uhEuropean countries.
Great Britain cut in house.
The UK, uh Germany, Norway,France, a lot of the traditional
(05:14):
donors that basically have alsocut their uh spending for
humanitarian aid.
And of course, throughout theyear we've heard about the
impact this has on the ground,which at the end of the day is
the terrible thing about thosecuts.
And uh just recently we heardabout Afghanistan as winter
approaches.
They were saying they're onlyable to reach about one million
(05:37):
people at the same time.
SPEAKER_09 (05:38):
Up to six million to who are I mean facing severe
hunger, phase four, I think, IPCthey were saying.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_15 (05:46):
And you know, they were talking about the choices
they have to make, and it's notreally they're not prioritizing
between people that are severelyhungry versus a little less, but
it's really among peopleseverely hungry.
I mean, you're just getting tothe ones you can reach.
SPEAKER_09 (06:03):
Did we, though, expect the severity?
I mean, I know round aboutspring I was talking to the UN
Population Fund and UN women,and they gave me graphic
accounts of what they werehaving to cut in Afghanistan,
mother and baby clinics.
And I think that was when itstarted to dawn on me this is
going to be much, much worsethan actually we had even
(06:26):
anticipated when we saw ElonMusk taking his chainsaw to
USAID.
What about you, Emma?
SPEAKER_06 (06:33):
It it's certainly been been awful, but the people
that I've been speaking to inthe sector still see the worst
yet to come.
The signs are that childhoodmortality will be up again for
the first time this century.
That was a Gates Foundation uhprediction, 200,000 more deaths
uh this year.
So uh we're starting to see theworst, and I think that we'll
(06:55):
have more to report on that inthe year to come, for sure.
There'll be more fallout, and Ithink there will be beyond the
suffering, which is obviously astory that we we need to tell,
it's also going to be a broaderfallout that could have
consequences for migration, forsecurity.
(07:15):
World Food Program was talkingabout how they couldn't get
enough food aid for people inNigeria, but yet armed groups
were coming along and fillingthe gap and recruiting some of
the people.
So I think there will be someinteresting kind of shifts.
There could be even security,they could be security
implications going forward ofsome of those cuts.
(07:36):
So I think it's just thebeginning.
SPEAKER_09 (07:37):
Neek, what about you?
I fear that, I must say.
SPEAKER_17 (07:40):
Absolutely.
And I think one of the at a timewhen there's a lot of pressure
on the UN to be more efficientand streamlined.
I mean, the hard fact is thatbudgets are still tanking, and
they have no means of predictingwhat resources they're going to
have to deal with, which kind ofreally cripples their abilities
to plan and deliver, you know,in the most uh efficient way.
(08:02):
So, yeah, the outlook isextremely bleak.
SPEAKER_09 (08:05):
And the kind of frustrating thing is like we do
see, we've been seeing this forseveral years, that the rich
section of the planet is gettingricher, a very small fraction of
people.
And the middling, which Isuppose we might count ourselves
as, while we still have jobs,we're being persuaded to think
that the poorest are somehow ourenemy.
(08:28):
And this is translating into thekind of funding cuts that
governments are getting awaywith because they are playing
this us first, us first, mefirst card.
SPEAKER_17 (08:38):
Aaron Powell Yeah, it was interesting to hear uh
Philippo Grandi yesterday, inalmost his last public
appearance, the UN refugeechief, saying that the cuts were
not politically innocent.
He said they were designed andintended to weaken us, and the
world's humanitarian system isgoing to pay a price for it.
SPEAKER_09 (08:57):
Yeah, but w humanity is going to pay a price for
that.
If I if I put my loyal to thehumanitarian system hat on, the
poorest people on the planet,mostly women and children, are
going to pay a price for that.
SPEAKER_15 (09:08):
If I could add something, because you know,
just to understand the scaleperhaps of the cuts themselves,
I think it's it might beimportant to just talk about the
figures as well.
So basically in 2025, the UN hasraised so far about$13 billion.
And so that's the lowest levelsince 2016, when it was also
(09:29):
about$12 billion.
Only the difference is that in2016,$12 billion would cover,
you know, about half or more ofwhat the UN was hoping to raise.
Today it's only a quarter.
So I think yeah, needs havealways increased, basically.
And so yeah, I think that reallyputs it in in perspective.
SPEAKER_06 (09:47):
Aaron Powell What's interesting though, hearing from
donors is that this uh so-calledhyper prioritization process, as
Tom Fletcher, the UN aid chief,calls it, they don't think it's
gone far enough yet.
Um, the ones I'm speaking to.
They're still talking about UNbudgets as fictional.
One of them used that term.
And it's true if you look at theamount of funding that's going
(10:09):
towards them, it's sometimes10%, sometimes a quarter funded.
So the question is whetherthey're going to have to scale
back their ambitions further inin the years ahead.
SPEAKER_09 (10:21):
Well, they always know that their budgets will not
be fully funded.
It's a rare, you know, lesserspotted aardvark of a UN budget
that gets 100% funding.
I think I've seen it once in my20 years reporting, and I think
that was after the Asiantsunami.
SPEAKER_06 (10:36):
So they know But I guess it's the question of
institutional reform as well,right?
Because uh back in May there wasthis memo leaked which Reuters
reported on, and there were somereally bold ideas about
consolidating some of these UNagencies where donors saw
overlap and so on.
So far we haven't seen that yet.
(10:57):
So the question is will donorskeep giving funding to a system
that they still see as a littlebit flabby with too many people
doing the same thing?
Maybe I'm being devil's advocatehere, but speaking to donors,
they do see the UN as trying tostill do too much and not being
efficient enough about the waythat it spends money.
SPEAKER_09 (11:17):
Yeah, I mean I can I can see that.
Except I've seen it evolve overthe last uh twenty years.
It seems to me more rigorous inget not duplicating than it was
twenty years ago.
They've got their specialemergency fund, which generally
works quite efficiently.
And I also I hate to say this,but I don't have a lot of faith
(11:41):
in governments who are electedpoliticians on short-term terms,
being able to work out whatworks in long-term humanitarian
aid, particularly when these arethe very same people who've
completely failed to brokerpeace.
That's what we need them for,but they're not doing it.
Emma, can we come on to yourtopic?
SPEAKER_06 (11:59):
Yes.
Um, I wanted to speak aboutGaza, which uh has been one of
the main things that I've beenwriting about for the past two
years, really.
I feel like I'm an auxiliarycorrespondent of the Middle East
team.
SPEAKER_11 (12:10):
Hunger and fear.
Palestinians in Gaza say goingto new food distribution sites
comes with the risk of death.
SPEAKER_16 (12:21):
Reports from Gaza said at least 26 Palestinians
have been killed, and many morewounded after Israeli tank fire
hit people near a US-funded aiddistribution center.
SPEAKER_10 (12:35):
Israeli forces have opened fire again on hungry
Palestinians desperate for aid.
SPEAKER_06 (12:41):
It has been, in the words of so many humanitarians,
the most horrific humanitariancrisis they've seen in their
careers.
So I've devoted a lot of time toreporting on that this year, as
has the UN press corps.
But two standout stories thisyear: the mass casualty events
that we saw in Gaza when peoplewere just trying to get food,
(13:02):
hundreds killed on a dailybasis, trying to access these
food sites that many UNofficials said were based on a
betrayal of humanitarianprinciples.
That was one story that stoodout, and another was the finding
of famine in Gaza.
I believe the first time thatsuch a finding was declared
(13:27):
outside of Africa.
From what we're hearing, thesituation is still awful.
The dramatic headlines and thedramatic violence has dissipated
since the October 10thceasefire, of course.
But the conditions in whichpeople are living in are
(13:48):
obviously awful.
Thousands still being treatedfor malnutrition, 60 million
tons of rubble.
And no bulldozers of thecolours.
No, yes, it's not allowed in.
So even just getting by on adaily basis, very difficult.
So the infrastructure broken,sewage running through the
streets during the rainyperiods.
(14:10):
But then this big question ofreconstruction, it's just not
even being tackled yet becauseof the restrictions on getting
equipment in.
We did uh investigation on theunexploded bombs of Gaza and
Humanity Inclusion, one of theorganizations working on that,
said it's gonna take 30 yearsjust to clear the surface.
(14:31):
There are these uh Mark 842,000-pound bombs that are just
in the sand underneath people'shomes, and that requires a lot
of technical equipment that'sgonna be very sensitive to get
into the enclave.
So, this whole question of whathappens after this initial phase
of the ceasefire, after thefinal hostage's body is
(14:52):
returned, hasn't even reallybeen broached yet.
So we'll definitely be uhwriting about that in 2026, um
the next phases of uh the Gazacrisis.
SPEAKER_09 (15:03):
Do we think that uh the people who uh got involved
to broker this ceasefire uh evenunderstand the enormity?
I mean, I'm thinking of peoplelike you know, Trump's team,
Steve Whitcoff, Jared Kushner,because they're not talking to
the United Nations, who at leasthas some peace-building conflict
(15:26):
resolution, sustainable peaceexperience behind it.
SPEAKER_17 (15:31):
Well, I think it's just very difficult to identify
quite what their agenda reallyis.
And here we are, what threemonths after the October 10
ceasefire sort of took effect.
We still don't know very muchabout the Board of Peace that is
supposed to be leading us intothe brave new future.
We know nothing about theinternational security force
(15:52):
that is supposed to provide uh abasis for security in the Strip.
We have no idea what Israel'sintentions really are in
relation to withdrawal from theyellow zone that it controls,
which is what half theterritory.
And instead, we see Israelintroducing a new system of INGO
registration, which the NGOs arewarning will uh emaciate an
(16:16):
already struggling system ofhumanitarian delivery.
Although the the amount of foodand other supplies going into
the Gaza Strip has obviouslyincreased significantly since
October 10.
Most of it is coming from uhcommercial suppliers.
So this can't be afforded bypeople who have spent two years
under heavy bombardment and haveno money and no resources.
SPEAKER_09 (16:38):
I know, and the aid agencies are telling us every
week here in Geneva that thestuff they would like to get in
is getting in incredibly slowly.
And what we see is thePalestinians in Gaza, the bombs
aren't falling as often.
But I mean, it's freezing cold.
I was I mean, I saw thesepictures of these tents of the
howling wind.
I mean, how are you supposed tolive like that?
SPEAKER_17 (17:00):
And I think you well, you know, one story that's
been slightly eclipsed by theenormity of the other uh abuses
that have been going on is isthe Medivac story.
Where um they they'd beenplaying fast and loose with the
lives of of people who neededmedical treatment and uh just
extraordinary obstruction put inthe way of getting children with
absolutely uh appalling,life-threatening injuries, um,
(17:23):
getting approvals that allowedthem to go out for medical
treatment overseas.
And we're not really very muchbetter now in terms of the
numbers going out for medicalevacuations than we were, you
know, in in a a year ago.
So it's it's really a shockingstory, and and numerous lives,
numerous children have diedwaiting for approvals that could
(17:43):
have been given instantly.
SPEAKER_09 (17:45):
And that is definitely a story that's not
going away.
Shall we move to the third,which will be mine?
Um my story of 2025 wasprimarily Switzerland-based,
because I cover the country aswell, but it relates to
International Geneva becauseit's climate change.
SPEAKER_11 (18:06):
A dramatic demonstration of nature's power
and a potential warning of theconsequences of climate change.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
A picturesque Swiss town was buried after part of a
glacier broke off and camesliding down a mountain in the
Alps.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
In the past half hour, leaders at the COP 30
Climate Summit in Brazil haveagreed on a deal that ends the
summit but fails to mentionfossil fuels.
SPEAKER_14 (18:28):
Climate change.
Because if it goes higher orlower, whatever the hell
happens, this climate change,it's the greatest con job ever
perpetrated on the world, in myopinion.
SPEAKER_09 (18:40):
Because I got called out in May to cover the village
of Blatten, which had beencompletely eradicated, just
wiped off the map by acombination of a weak glacier
and a weak mountainsidedescending.
Now, this being Switzerland andbeing an organized and wealthy
(19:00):
country, luckily the 300inhabitants had been evacuated,
but they're still evacuated.
That village, if it's everrebuilt, will never be what it
was.
And those houses had stood therefor 800 years, which means that
the kind of alpine mentality ofwe build our villages where we
know it's fairly safe, which yousee all over the Alps, doesn't
(19:22):
pertain anymore because thingsare getting more unstable,
because the glaciers are gettingthinner, and they the ice holds
the mountains together, thepermafrost is thawing.
And at the same time, climatechange, well, where was it in
2025?
We had COP 30, the United Statesdidn't go.
We have the president, the mostpowerful man on earth, we are
(19:45):
told, President Trump, tellingthe assembled UN leaders in New
York that it was all a massivecon job.
I have to say, this worries mebecause Switzerland is a wealthy
country, but to go to thatvillage and see people just
sitting there shocked, waitingfor the insurance man, but not
knowing where they were going tolive for for years on end.
(20:07):
And that is happening to smallisland states, it's happening to
parts of Africa where we seeincreasing drought, crops
failing.
And I don't know what you guysthink, but it feels like we
don't have the bandwidth to evenaddress it anymore.
SPEAKER_15 (20:23):
With Switzerland, I mean uh Switzerland is, I think,
one of the hardest affectedcountries in the world by
climate change.
Um but I think it's alsointeresting, you know, if we
think about Donald Trump'smessage w about the environment
and climate change, even in inSwitzerland.
And you know, there's a hugesavings that's been approved by
(20:45):
the government, that's now infront of the parliament, and a
lot of the environmentalorganizations are actually
saying that some of those cutswill be problematic for the
environment.
Uh, for example, I think part ofit was about renovating uh
buildings so that they're moreenergy efficient.
There's cuts also in educationand research.
(21:06):
I feel like those aren't reallythe kind of areas in which you
want to cut if you're thinkingabout addressing climate change
in the future.
SPEAKER_09 (21:15):
Do we think the UN has a role to play here?
I mean, Guterres, we come backto this.
He started his life as UNSecretary General saying climate
change was going to be his keyfocus.
SPEAKER_06 (21:26):
Yeah, I feel sorry for him because that was really
his mandate, and it just feelslike it slipped away from him as
political priorities havechanged.
And going into the last year ofhis mandate, it's gonna be hard
to drive that point home, Ithink, that it that it is a top
priority with so many othercrises around the world.
SPEAKER_09 (21:44):
I mean, we're definitely going to be
discussing climate change in2026, even if the politicians
don't do anything about it.
Events, natural disasters aregonna remind us.
I think there's there's nogetting away from that.
SPEAKER_17 (21:55):
Yeah, and look at the outcome of the plastics
treaty negotiations in Geneva,which again was you would have
thought was something that wecould have seen some progress
on, but it didn't materialize.
And then you look at thepowerful lobby of the fossil
fuel industries in COP meetings.
SPEAKER_09 (22:13):
Um they came to the plastics treaty as well.
SPEAKER_17 (22:16):
Uh indeed, but uh, I mean it just reminds you you
know where the power really liesat this point in this debate.
It is extraordinary.
SPEAKER_09 (22:24):
Nick, do you want to come with your story of 2025?
SPEAKER_12 (22:29):
Well, I suppose we ought to bring in Ukraine.
The Kyiv skyline on the fourthround of Russia's now weekly
concerted targeting of the waterin people's taps, the heating in
their holes.
SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
An unmanned Russian bomber drone punching a vast
hole in the side of thebuilding.
Three people lost their lives,more than ten were wounded,
including two children.
SPEAKER_17 (22:59):
We did have Ukrainian peace talks here in
Geneva quite recently.
And in a recent address to uhthe Human Rights Council,
Volkoturk, did bring up how allthe talk of peace had to some
extent eclipsed the humanitariantoll of this conflict.
The large numbers of Ukrainiansthat had been hunted down by sh,
(23:20):
you know, these short-rangedrones, um, which were
Apparently the Russian soldierscall it going on safari.
SPEAKER_09 (23:27):
This is yeah.
That you can they put they postit on YouTube.
SPEAKER_17 (23:31):
Well, he said that there had been more than 300
people, you know, individualssort of killed, riding in buses,
riding on cars, walking aroundand who are kind of chased and
hunted by these devices.
And he talked also quite grimlyabout um the astonishing reports
of torture and abuse ofUkrainian detainees, both
(23:54):
civilian and military.
I think he said that they'dinterviewed 187 who had been
returned, and 185 had documentedin detail extreme forms of
torture and abuse, includingsexual torture.
It gives you a pretty grimassessment on the state of a
conflict that all the talk ofpeace that was going to come
(24:17):
within 24 hours of PresidentTrump's uh election remains
really elusive.
SPEAKER_09 (24:23):
And the peace deal, we don't know quite what's in
the latest iteration, but theoriginal had a complete amnesty
for war crimes.
SPEAKER_17 (24:32):
Yeah, and we haven't seen anything that really
bridges um the positions of theEuropean states, not just
Ukraine, but Europe generally,and and the position of the
United States.
And and then, of course,President Putin, who uh remains
um completely obdurate andholding to positions that are
completely a non-starter as a asa as a basis for negotiation.
SPEAKER_09 (24:56):
Maybe this is a point where we should actually
bang the drum for the UnitedNations a bit, because the work
that the human rightsinvestigators are doing, whether
it's Ukraine, whether it'sSudan, whether it's Gaza, this
is really important.
Or Syria, for example.
That, you know, if you've had tosuffer this kind of violation,
at least the UN is providingsomebody who will document it
(25:21):
and validate, yes, this happenedto you, and maybe not today,
maybe not tomorrow, maybe notnext year, but at some point we
hope there will be someaccountability.
I mean, that's something I thinkwe could say, yeah, we still
need the UN in Geneva for.
SPEAKER_15 (25:34):
But that's tough because um people, when they
think about the UN, they mostlythink about its roles in
promoting peace in the world.
And so this mission obviouslyhasn't worked very well, or even
if it's if it comes tomediation, I think the Secretary
General has a little bit ofwiggle room when it comes to
offering his uh his services asa mediator.
(25:56):
But I mean, of course, theparties have to accept it, which
we can all imagine hasn't reallyhappened.
Um, but yeah, I think really inthe public's image, the fact
that there is such a war thatmost likely Ukraine will have to
give away part of its territory,so it really hurts what the UN
stands for, and and I guess uhyeah, international law more
(26:17):
broadly.
SPEAKER_17 (26:18):
But uh I mean, you know, the UN is only as good as
its member states.
And if the member states arestarving United Nations
humanitarian and internationalNGO humanitarian agencies of
funds, the best way to reducethe load that's left by
conflicts is to make peace.
And that comes back to theSecurity Council and the states
(26:39):
that live and serve on it, andwe have seen almost total
paralysis on the part of theUnited Nations Security Council.
SPEAKER_09 (26:47):
I think at the end of the day, if you have
superpowers and and you knowthree of them, they've got their
vetoes on the Security Council.
At the end of the day, if theydon't want to play ball, the UN
is basically paralyzed.
Apart from its humanitarianwing.
But even now, they are sufferingthis kind of politicization
(27:08):
because their funding is beingcut.
But if you look at Ukraine, forexample, the United States has
not at any point consulted theUnited Nations, not once, about
how you might.
I mean, we can criticize uh thethe UN Secretariat and so on,
all we like, but there arepeople there who have some
experience of peace building andon bringing people who are
(27:31):
completely violently opposedinto the room and encouraging
them to make some concessionsand look each other in the eye.
I'm sorry, but business realestate guys from Manhattan don't
have this kind of experience.
I mean, uh what what do wethink?
How does the UN kind of punch abit higher if somebody like
(27:51):
Trump or Putin's just going toignore the United Nations?
SPEAKER_06 (27:55):
When was the last time, though, that it was an
earnest attempt to broker an endto a conflict at all?
Syria?
Yes, possibly.
SPEAKER_17 (28:05):
Was it a serious attempt?
There was an attempt whichbrought in states as
peacemakers, states that wereactually arming the combatants.
So is that a serious attempt?
SPEAKER_06 (28:17):
We haven't seen the same leadership, though, as we
have had in previous uhgenerations.
And even the role of the UN aidchief, it there is some scope
for sort of backdoor diplomacy.
Maybe we're just not privy towhat's going on, but haven't
seen those those efforts.
And the US criticism of the UNis back to basics, broker ends
(28:41):
to conflicts.
We haven't seen as much of thatas we've seen in the past.
Maybe the Black Sea deal, youcould say, was good
old-fashioned diplomacy.
There was at least an agreementthere at one point, but we're
just not saying the same as Imean we shouldn't necessarily
underestimate that that was notan easy deal to get.
SPEAKER_09 (28:59):
You know, it sounds, oh God, but for goodness sake,
of course these ships can sailback and forth and deliver
grain.
But actually, this is the hardgraft that eventual peace or
ceasefires are built on, not aload of handshakes in the Oval
Office or the Kremlin with thecameras clicking.
SPEAKER_17 (29:17):
Well, we might segue from there into President Trump.
SPEAKER_09 (29:21):
I know you wanted to talk about him.
Um I want to talk about him tooon the subject of migration,
because that's one unifyingfactor I think I know is going
to be on the agenda in 2026.
But first, um President Trump.
SPEAKER_17 (29:37):
Well, just that here we are 11 and a half months into
his first term.
And everything that we havetalked about in some way, shape,
or form, has been powerfullytraced back to him.
Powerfully influenced by whathas or hasn't come out of
Washington, D.C.
And we have seen, you know, lovehim or loathe him.
I mean, this is probably themost consequential presidency of
(30:00):
this century in terms of what hehas done to governance within
the United States.
He's issued more executiveorders in the first 11 months
than he did in the whole of hisfirst term.
He's absolutely turned therelationship between the White
House and Congress on its on itshead, uh, expanded executive
power.
And then in terms of foreignpolicy, we see President Trump,
(30:22):
you know, asserting himself as agreat peacemaker.
But um at the same time, whenyou look at the negotiations
around Ukraine and the nationalsecurity policy that has just
come out of the White House, wehave seen essentially the
Transatlantic Alliance beingseverely strained, if not
impossibly fractured.
And that is that has been themost significant international
(30:45):
alliance underpinninginternational security since
World War II.
SPEAKER_09 (30:49):
Well, it's also kind of the impetus behind the
creation of the United Nations,the Transatlantic Alliance.
SPEAKER_17 (30:55):
So there we are.
But um, what's going to happenin 2026?
And we're seeing him losing someof his grip on the levers of
power that uh have sustained himso well in 2025.
I mean, we're seeing the MAGAbase showing distinct fractures.
We're seeing his poll ratings inrelation to economic management
(31:18):
slipping quite significantly.
We've seen the elections of uh,for example, uh a mayor in New
York and two governors that umuh were elected uh Democratic
candidates, elected on hugemargins, which I think is
significantly worryingRepublicans.
And we're seeing some fissuresin between Republican senators
(31:41):
and congressmen and the WhiteHouse in terms of foreign
policy.
So, yeah, uh a lot of questionsabout what he will be left with
come the midterms in November2026.
SPEAKER_09 (31:51):
Which could affect, I guess, what happens to us and
the institutions here.
I did read people are talkingabout it, this interview with
the White House Chief of Staff,Susie Wiles, in Vanity Fair.
She's quoted as saying she wasaghast at what Trump and Elon
Musk were doing to US foreignaid.
(32:12):
Did you do anything about herfeeling of being aghast?
I don't think so.
But I don't know.
I suspect he's still going to beliving rent-free in our brains
this time next year.
Can we turn to our final topic,which I thought we could all
talk about because it'sdefinitely on the agenda this
year and it will be on theagenda next year, and that is
(32:34):
migration.
SPEAKER_14 (32:36):
All illegal entry will immediately be halted, and
we will begin the process ofreturning millions and millions
of criminal aliens back to theplaces from which they came.
SPEAKER_13 (32:50):
The look may be festive, but the message is not
on a Sunday morning in Crobarumin the southeast of England.
SPEAKER_03 (33:07):
But it's incredibly important to me that we stop the
boats, to smash the gangs, andsmash the gangs, smashing the
gangs that are running thisabsolute vital trade.
SPEAKER_05 (33:15):
United States immigration and customs
enforcement ice is nowequivalent to some of the
largest military forces in theworld.
This virtual army is supposed tobe targeting criminal illegal
immigrants in the United States.
But more and more US citizensand legal immigrants are being
rounded up.
SPEAKER_09 (33:34):
I talked to, and Insight Geneva listeners, you
can hear that.
And he was dismayed.
He said it's a complete race tothe bottom with the politics of
(33:59):
migration, whether in Europe orin America.
And he said we're he basicallysaid Europe is throwing away its
civilization, the way it is isuh addressing this topic.
And this is one here.
We're getting a new UN refugeechief, I think will be announced
this week.
What do we think?
Because it's it the goalpostshave moved so far just in a few
(34:22):
years.
It's like migration is almostlike it's like this dirty word.
SPEAKER_06 (34:26):
It's interesting though, because there was this
race uh to replace FilippoGrandi as refugee chief, but
everyone still was defending the1951 convention.
There have been attempts toshift the definition of asylum
by uh the states, and in theUNGA earlier this year, you you
saw the Trump administrationtrying to narrow the definition
(34:47):
of asylum.
But so far, at least on amultilateral level in Geneva,
everyone is standing by it.
But yes, of course, every stateis is uh looking after their own
interests, and one of theproblems is that that sets a
very bad example for the stateswho are actually doing the most
to host to refugees and migrantsaround the world, which are
(35:08):
African countries like Chad orum Uganda or maybe Bangladesh in
Turkey for a while.
Turkey.
Yes.
And um I interviewed the head ofthe uh Danish Refugee Council,
Charlotte Slendt, the other day,and she said she's very worried
in 2026 about some of thosecountries saying, Well, why
should we open our doors?
(35:28):
You're not funding this anymore.
We're much poorer than you.
So why should we let them in?
SPEAKER_09 (35:34):
I mean, and that's as a recipe for instability and
more refugee flows, which iswhat Europe says, oh, it doesn't
want.
And America, of course, says itdoesn't want.
Dorian?
SPEAKER_15 (35:44):
No, Sophia, yeah, I fear that this narrative that uh
immigration is ruining Europe,uh, that Donald Trump's pushing,
obviously will inspire Europeanright-wing populist leaders.
And I think next year we'll heara lot more about this, and then
obviously as well with the whatDonald Trump is doing in the US,
(36:05):
as you said.
I mean, he's lowering the barreally low for what is
acceptable and is going againstuh international uh norms, you
know, non-refoolment or uhripping people off the streets.
SPEAKER_08 (36:16):
Yeah.
Enforced disappearance,actually.
SPEAKER_15 (36:19):
Yeah, exactly.
And so it just also weakeninginternational norms and uh the
funding for all the umorganizations here that are
dealing with this, whether it'sthe uh High Commissioner for
Refugees or the IOM or the uhHuman Rights Office, all those
have been some of the worstaffected organizations, so it's
(36:40):
not a good sign, I guess.
SPEAKER_09 (36:42):
Nick?
SPEAKER_17 (36:43):
Well, it's even in the UK you see a center-left
government under massivepressure to address the issues
of immigration and fearing thatit's it's going to, you know, if
an election were held tomorrowthat um its massive majority
would swing into the hands of ofa hard-right politician who
(37:04):
would completely change therules and would call for UK
withdrawn from the EuropeanCourt of Human Rights.
I mean, that's just kind of anindicator.
And we see right-winggovernments across Europe um
pushing this and and enormouspressures that are not being
properly resisted by governmentsthat I think uh have a mandate
(37:25):
to to pursue a sort of moreliberal policy.
SPEAKER_09 (37:27):
I wonder how the the UN, if it can at all, counter
this, because it is this kind ofsnake oil salesman thing.
You are feeling bad, you can'tget a doctor's appointment, you
can't get a house, it's thatperson's fault over there who
doesn't look like you, whodoesn't speak the same language
as you.
A rational person actually knowsthis is nonsense.
(37:48):
We know it's because ourgovernments don't invest or
they're investing in in thewrong things, or they haven't
planned for the for the longterm.
And yet it works.
And I I remember in it must havebeen 2016, 2017, everybody talks
now about what a disaster it wasfor Angela Merkel to say
(38:09):
Wirtschaffen das.
Do you remember that?
And they let in the Syrianrefugees.
But sometime around 2017-2018,the the UN Refugee Agency they
did a series of little filmsabout Syrians living in Germany,
completely integrated.
I mean, okay, it was a it was agood news story, but do we need
more of that?
I mean, they they interviewed abus driver and a nurse and
(38:31):
people who are doing jobs thatGermany needs.
SPEAKER_06 (38:33):
It will be interesting to see what um Barem
Saleh, the new HighCommissioner, from Iraq.
From Iraq.
Exactly.
Not the first uh refugee,apparently, to head the agency,
the second after Van Hoeven, inum who escaped from the
Netherlands in the Second WorldWar.
But it will be exciting to hear,I think, directly from a former
(38:54):
refugee, a success story,someone who found an exit plan
and became the head of acountry.
What better example of apositive contribution to
society?
SPEAKER_17 (39:07):
Well, it was interesting too.
I mean, in the answers that hegave to the questionnaire, which
went to all the candidates thatthey identified as candidates,
um, his answers stressed theimportance of UNHCR's protection
mandate.
And the other particular themethat I I f saw I thought was
quite heavily stressed in hisanswers was the principle of
(39:30):
inclusion, the importance ofincluding refugee and asylum
seeker and stateless people'svoices in shaping refugee
policy.
So uh that was a point that umPhilippo Grandi, the outgoing
chief, made in his finalremarks.
It's it's going to be one of thechallenges, and we all wish him
well in seeing how he's able todeliver on it.
SPEAKER_09 (39:50):
Well, we do wish him well, but I do think one thing,
if you if you could haverefugees more involved with the
policy, but also more intoschools, tell people about the
experiences.
You know, not unfortunately,even though we accept, but not
very many, we accept refugees inEurope.
How often do we actually sitdown and talk to them, to asylum
(40:13):
seekers?
But on that note, we ended onmigration in part because we're
just at the start of 2026.
Now we are going to have aspecial on migration in
February.
We can have a look at how thefirst few weeks of the new High
Commissioner for Refugees.
We are going to be looking atdisinformation at some point
(40:36):
this year, and we're going to belooking at what is the point of
foreign.
Aid with yaysayers andnaysayers.
So tune in for all of that fornow.
That's it.
Thank you, Dorian, Emma, andNick.
And all the very best for whatwe hope will be a brighter and
more positive 2026.
A reminder (41:04):
you've been listening to Inside Geneva, a
Swiss Info production.
You can subscribe to us andreview us wherever you get your
podcasts.
Check out our previous episodeshow the International Red Cross
unites prisoners of war withtheir families, or why survivors
of human rights violations turnto the UN in Geneva for justice.
(41:28):
I'm Imogen Folks.
Thanks again for listening.
This is Inside Geneva.
I'm your host, Imogen Folkes,and this is a production from
SwissInfo, the internationalpublic media company of
Switzerland.
In today's programme.
SPEAKER_15 (01:02):
The top story of 2025 has been cuts in the
humanitarian aid sector.
We knew with Donald Trump comingback to the White House, most
likely there would be importantcuts, but we just didn't expect,
I think, the scale of the cutsthat happened and also just how
brutal they were.
SPEAKER_06 (01:21):
I wanted to speak about Gaza, which has been one
of the main things that I'vebeen writing about for the past
two years.
It has been, in the words of somany humanitarians, the most
horrific humanitarian crisisthey've seen in their careers.
SPEAKER_09 (01:34):
My story of 2025 climate change, because I got
called out in May to cover thevillage of Blatten, which had
been completely wiped off themap by a combination of a weak
glacier and a weak mountainside.
SPEAKER_17 (01:52):
We ought to bring in Ukraine.
We did have Ukrainian peacetalks here in Geneva quite
recently.
All the talk of peace had tosome extent eclipsed the
humanitarian toll of thisconflict.
The large numbers of Ukrainiansthat had been hunted down by
these short-range drones.
SPEAKER_09 (02:10):
I want to talk about the subject of migration because
that's one unifying factor Ithink I know is going to be on
the agenda in 2026.
Hello and welcome to InsideGeneva.
And as we always do at this timeof year, I've got my colleagues
round the table to talk aboutthings that really resonated
(02:35):
with us, maybe really moved usin 2025 that we also think
probably have relevance for2026.
We hope it's not going to be toodepressing a program.
And to join me, I've got hereDorianne Borkhalter from
SwissInfo, the company thatproduces Inside Geneva, of
course.
I have Emma Farge of Reuters andNick Cumming Bruce, contributor
(03:00):
to New York Times.
Just one thing before weactually get going.
Our colleagues at Foreign Policyhave a new podcast series.
Here's a short burst of whatthat's all about.
SPEAKER_07 (03:16):
Hello, I'm Femi O'Kay, and I'm the new host of
The Negotiators, the show thatdraws back the curtain and some
of the most compellingnegotiations around the world.
This season, we're taking ascuba diving in the Red Sea,
walking the grounds of a luxuryresort in Uganda, and even
aboard an aging oil tankerfloating off the coast of Yemen.
SPEAKER_04 (03:36):
We were constantly monitored by drones overhead,
divers under the vessel, so itwas not exactly a high trust
operation.
SPEAKER_07 (03:42):
That's the negotiators available now,
wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_09 (03:46):
Our colleagues at Foreign Policy there with the
series The Negotiators, whichI'm sure listeners to Inside
Geneva will enjoy as well.
Okay, Dorian, we said we weregoing to talk about stories that
resonated with us.
What's yours?
SPEAKER_15 (04:02):
So for me, I think the top story of 2025 has been
uh cuts in the humanitarian aidsector.
Late today, the US StateDepartment suspended all foreign
assistance around the world forat least three months.
SPEAKER_16 (04:16):
Donald Trump suspended American foreign aid
on day one of his presidency.
The United Nations aid agency issaying that there could be 2,000
new cases of HIV due to theUSAID cuts.
SPEAKER_15 (04:30):
We knew with Donald Trump coming back to the White
House, most likely there wouldbe important cuts because the US
was funding about 40% of thehumanitarian sector.
But we just didn't expect, Ithink, the uh scale of the cuts
that happened and also just howbrutal they were.
And uh now we're at the end ofthe year, and it turns out
(04:52):
basically two-thirds of uh whatthe US used to give to the uh UN
has disappeared.
And it's also I think importantto uh point out that it's not
just the US, it's also uhEuropean countries.
Great Britain cut in house.
The UK, uh Germany, Norway,France, a lot of the traditional
(05:14):
donors that basically have alsocut their uh spending for
humanitarian aid.
And of course, throughout theyear we've heard about the
impact this has on the ground,which at the end of the day is
the terrible thing about thosecuts.
And uh just recently we heardabout Afghanistan as winter
approaches.
They were saying they're onlyable to reach about one million
(05:37):
people at the same time.
SPEAKER_09 (05:38):
Up to six million to who are I mean facing severe
hunger, phase four, I think, IPCthey were saying.
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_15 (05:46):
And you know, they were talking about the choices
they have to make, and it's notreally they're not prioritizing
between people that are severelyhungry versus a little less, but
it's really among peopleseverely hungry.
I mean, you're just getting tothe ones you can reach.
SPEAKER_09 (06:03):
Did we, though, expect the severity?
I mean, I know round aboutspring I was talking to the UN
Population Fund and UN women,and they gave me graphic
accounts of what they werehaving to cut in Afghanistan,
mother and baby clinics.
And I think that was when itstarted to dawn on me this is
going to be much, much worsethan actually we had even
(06:26):
anticipated when we saw ElonMusk taking his chainsaw to
USAID.
What about you, Emma?
SPEAKER_06 (06:33):
It it's certainly been been awful, but the people
that I've been speaking to inthe sector still see the worst
yet to come.
The signs are that childhoodmortality will be up again for
the first time this century.
That was a Gates Foundation uhprediction, 200,000 more deaths
uh this year.
So uh we're starting to see theworst, and I think that we'll
(06:55):
have more to report on that inthe year to come, for sure.
There'll be more fallout, and Ithink there will be beyond the
suffering, which is obviously astory that we we need to tell,
it's also going to be a broaderfallout that could have
consequences for migration, forsecurity.
(07:15):
World Food Program was talkingabout how they couldn't get
enough food aid for people inNigeria, but yet armed groups
were coming along and fillingthe gap and recruiting some of
the people.
So I think there will be someinteresting kind of shifts.
There could be even security,they could be security
implications going forward ofsome of those cuts.
(07:36):
So I think it's just thebeginning.
SPEAKER_09 (07:37):
Neek, what about you?
I fear that, I must say.
SPEAKER_17 (07:40):
Absolutely.
And I think one of the at a timewhen there's a lot of pressure
on the UN to be more efficientand streamlined.
I mean, the hard fact is thatbudgets are still tanking, and
they have no means of predictingwhat resources they're going to
have to deal with, which kind ofreally cripples their abilities
to plan and deliver, you know,in the most uh efficient way.
(08:02):
So, yeah, the outlook isextremely bleak.
SPEAKER_09 (08:05):
And the kind of frustrating thing is like we do
see, we've been seeing this forseveral years, that the rich
section of the planet is gettingricher, a very small fraction of
people.
And the middling, which Isuppose we might count ourselves
as, while we still have jobs,we're being persuaded to think
that the poorest are somehow ourenemy.
(08:28):
And this is translating into thekind of funding cuts that
governments are getting awaywith because they are playing
this us first, us first, mefirst card.
SPEAKER_17 (08:38):
Aaron Powell Yeah, it was interesting to hear uh
Philippo Grandi yesterday, inalmost his last public
appearance, the UN refugeechief, saying that the cuts were
not politically innocent.
He said they were designed andintended to weaken us, and the
world's humanitarian system isgoing to pay a price for it.
SPEAKER_09 (08:57):
Yeah, but w humanity is going to pay a price for
that.
If I if I put my loyal to thehumanitarian system hat on, the
poorest people on the planet,mostly women and children, are
going to pay a price for that.
SPEAKER_15 (09:08):
If I could add something, because you know,
just to understand the scaleperhaps of the cuts themselves,
I think it's it might beimportant to just talk about the
figures as well.
So basically in 2025, the UN hasraised so far about$13 billion.
And so that's the lowest levelsince 2016, when it was also
(09:29):
about$12 billion.
Only the difference is that in2016,$12 billion would cover,
you know, about half or more ofwhat the UN was hoping to raise.
Today it's only a quarter.
So I think yeah, needs havealways increased, basically.
And so yeah, I think that reallyputs it in in perspective.
SPEAKER_06 (09:47):
Aaron Powell What's interesting though, hearing from
donors is that this uh so-calledhyper prioritization process, as
Tom Fletcher, the UN aid chief,calls it, they don't think it's
gone far enough yet.
Um, the ones I'm speaking to.
They're still talking about UNbudgets as fictional.
One of them used that term.
And it's true if you look at theamount of funding that's going
(10:09):
towards them, it's sometimes10%, sometimes a quarter funded.
So the question is whetherthey're going to have to scale
back their ambitions further inin the years ahead.
SPEAKER_09 (10:21):
Well, they always know that their budgets will not
be fully funded.
It's a rare, you know, lesserspotted aardvark of a UN budget
that gets 100% funding.
I think I've seen it once in my20 years reporting, and I think
that was after the Asiantsunami.
SPEAKER_06 (10:36):
So they know But I guess it's the question of
institutional reform as well,right?
Because uh back in May there wasthis memo leaked which Reuters
reported on, and there were somereally bold ideas about
consolidating some of these UNagencies where donors saw
overlap and so on.
So far we haven't seen that yet.
(10:57):
So the question is will donorskeep giving funding to a system
that they still see as a littlebit flabby with too many people
doing the same thing?
Maybe I'm being devil's advocatehere, but speaking to donors,
they do see the UN as trying tostill do too much and not being
efficient enough about the waythat it spends money.
SPEAKER_09 (11:17):
Yeah, I mean I can I can see that.
Except I've seen it evolve overthe last uh twenty years.
It seems to me more rigorous inget not duplicating than it was
twenty years ago.
They've got their specialemergency fund, which generally
works quite efficiently.
And I also I hate to say this,but I don't have a lot of faith
(11:41):
in governments who are electedpoliticians on short-term terms,
being able to work out whatworks in long-term humanitarian
aid, particularly when these arethe very same people who've
completely failed to brokerpeace.
That's what we need them for,but they're not doing it.
Emma, can we come on to yourtopic?
SPEAKER_06 (11:59):
Yes.
Um, I wanted to speak aboutGaza, which uh has been one of
the main things that I've beenwriting about for the past two
years, really.
I feel like I'm an auxiliarycorrespondent of the Middle East
team.
SPEAKER_11 (12:10):
Hunger and fear.
Palestinians in Gaza say goingto new food distribution sites
comes with the risk of death.
SPEAKER_16 (12:21):
Reports from Gaza said at least 26 Palestinians
have been killed, and many morewounded after Israeli tank fire
hit people near a US-funded aiddistribution center.
SPEAKER_10 (12:35):
Israeli forces have opened fire again on hungry
Palestinians desperate for aid.
SPEAKER_06 (12:41):
It has been, in the words of so many humanitarians,
the most horrific humanitariancrisis they've seen in their
careers.
So I've devoted a lot of time toreporting on that this year, as
has the UN press corps.
But two standout stories thisyear: the mass casualty events
that we saw in Gaza when peoplewere just trying to get food,
(13:02):
hundreds killed on a dailybasis, trying to access these
food sites that many UNofficials said were based on a
betrayal of humanitarianprinciples.
That was one story that stoodout, and another was the finding
of famine in Gaza.
I believe the first time thatsuch a finding was declared
(13:27):
outside of Africa.
From what we're hearing, thesituation is still awful.
The dramatic headlines and thedramatic violence has dissipated
since the October 10thceasefire, of course.
But the conditions in whichpeople are living in are
(13:48):
obviously awful.
Thousands still being treatedfor malnutrition, 60 million
tons of rubble.
And no bulldozers of thecolours.
No, yes, it's not allowed in.
So even just getting by on adaily basis, very difficult.
So the infrastructure broken,sewage running through the
streets during the rainyperiods.
(14:10):
But then this big question ofreconstruction, it's just not
even being tackled yet becauseof the restrictions on getting
equipment in.
We did uh investigation on theunexploded bombs of Gaza and
Humanity Inclusion, one of theorganizations working on that,
said it's gonna take 30 yearsjust to clear the surface.
(14:31):
There are these uh Mark 842,000-pound bombs that are just
in the sand underneath people'shomes, and that requires a lot
of technical equipment that'sgonna be very sensitive to get
into the enclave.
So, this whole question of whathappens after this initial phase
of the ceasefire, after thefinal hostage's body is
(14:52):
returned, hasn't even reallybeen broached yet.
So we'll definitely be uhwriting about that in 2026, um
the next phases of uh the Gazacrisis.
SPEAKER_09 (15:03):
Do we think that uh the people who uh got involved
to broker this ceasefire uh evenunderstand the enormity?
I mean, I'm thinking of peoplelike you know, Trump's team,
Steve Whitcoff, Jared Kushner,because they're not talking to
the United Nations, who at leasthas some peace-building conflict
(15:26):
resolution, sustainable peaceexperience behind it.
SPEAKER_17 (15:31):
Well, I think it's just very difficult to identify
quite what their agenda reallyis.
And here we are, what threemonths after the October 10
ceasefire sort of took effect.
We still don't know very muchabout the Board of Peace that is
supposed to be leading us intothe brave new future.
We know nothing about theinternational security force
(15:52):
that is supposed to provide uh abasis for security in the Strip.
We have no idea what Israel'sintentions really are in
relation to withdrawal from theyellow zone that it controls,
which is what half theterritory.
And instead, we see Israelintroducing a new system of INGO
registration, which the NGOs arewarning will uh emaciate an
(16:16):
already struggling system ofhumanitarian delivery.
Although the the amount of foodand other supplies going into
the Gaza Strip has obviouslyincreased significantly since
October 10.
Most of it is coming from uhcommercial suppliers.
So this can't be afforded bypeople who have spent two years
under heavy bombardment and haveno money and no resources.
SPEAKER_09 (16:38):
I know, and the aid agencies are telling us every
week here in Geneva that thestuff they would like to get in
is getting in incredibly slowly.
And what we see is thePalestinians in Gaza, the bombs
aren't falling as often.
But I mean, it's freezing cold.
I was I mean, I saw thesepictures of these tents of the
howling wind.
I mean, how are you supposed tolive like that?
SPEAKER_17 (17:00):
And I think you well, you know, one story that's
been slightly eclipsed by theenormity of the other uh abuses
that have been going on is isthe Medivac story.
Where um they they'd beenplaying fast and loose with the
lives of of people who neededmedical treatment and uh just
extraordinary obstruction put inthe way of getting children with
absolutely uh appalling,life-threatening injuries, um,
(17:23):
getting approvals that allowedthem to go out for medical
treatment overseas.
And we're not really very muchbetter now in terms of the
numbers going out for medicalevacuations than we were, you
know, in in a a year ago.
So it's it's really a shockingstory, and and numerous lives,
numerous children have diedwaiting for approvals that could
(17:43):
have been given instantly.
SPEAKER_09 (17:45):
And that is definitely a story that's not
going away.
Shall we move to the third,which will be mine?
Um my story of 2025 wasprimarily Switzerland-based,
because I cover the country aswell, but it relates to
International Geneva becauseit's climate change.
SPEAKER_11 (18:06):
A dramatic demonstration of nature's power
and a potential warning of theconsequences of climate change.
SPEAKER_00 (18:13):
A picturesque Swiss town was buried after part of a
glacier broke off and camesliding down a mountain in the
Alps.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
In the past half hour, leaders at the COP 30
Climate Summit in Brazil haveagreed on a deal that ends the
summit but fails to mentionfossil fuels.
SPEAKER_14 (18:28):
Climate change.
Because if it goes higher orlower, whatever the hell
happens, this climate change,it's the greatest con job ever
perpetrated on the world, in myopinion.
SPEAKER_09 (18:40):
Because I got called out in May to cover the village
of Blatten, which had beencompletely eradicated, just
wiped off the map by acombination of a weak glacier
and a weak mountainsidedescending.
Now, this being Switzerland andbeing an organized and wealthy
(19:00):
country, luckily the 300inhabitants had been evacuated,
but they're still evacuated.
That village, if it's everrebuilt, will never be what it
was.
And those houses had stood therefor 800 years, which means that
the kind of alpine mentality ofwe build our villages where we
know it's fairly safe, which yousee all over the Alps, doesn't
(19:22):
pertain anymore because thingsare getting more unstable,
because the glaciers are gettingthinner, and they the ice holds
the mountains together, thepermafrost is thawing.
And at the same time, climatechange, well, where was it in
2025?
We had COP 30, the United Statesdidn't go.
We have the president, the mostpowerful man on earth, we are
(19:45):
told, President Trump, tellingthe assembled UN leaders in New
York that it was all a massivecon job.
I have to say, this worries mebecause Switzerland is a wealthy
country, but to go to thatvillage and see people just
sitting there shocked, waitingfor the insurance man, but not
knowing where they were going tolive for for years on end.
(20:07):
And that is happening to smallisland states, it's happening to
parts of Africa where we seeincreasing drought, crops
failing.
And I don't know what you guysthink, but it feels like we
don't have the bandwidth to evenaddress it anymore.
SPEAKER_15 (20:23):
With Switzerland, I mean uh Switzerland is, I think,
one of the hardest affectedcountries in the world by
climate change.
Um but I think it's alsointeresting, you know, if we
think about Donald Trump'smessage w about the environment
and climate change, even in inSwitzerland.
And you know, there's a hugesavings that's been approved by
(20:45):
the government, that's now infront of the parliament, and a
lot of the environmentalorganizations are actually
saying that some of those cutswill be problematic for the
environment.
Uh, for example, I think part ofit was about renovating uh
buildings so that they're moreenergy efficient.
There's cuts also in educationand research.
(21:06):
I feel like those aren't reallythe kind of areas in which you
want to cut if you're thinkingabout addressing climate change
in the future.
SPEAKER_09 (21:15):
Do we think the UN has a role to play here?
I mean, Guterres, we come backto this.
He started his life as UNSecretary General saying climate
change was going to be his keyfocus.
SPEAKER_06 (21:26):
Yeah, I feel sorry for him because that was really
his mandate, and it just feelslike it slipped away from him as
political priorities havechanged.
And going into the last year ofhis mandate, it's gonna be hard
to drive that point home, Ithink, that it that it is a top
priority with so many othercrises around the world.
SPEAKER_09 (21:44):
I mean, we're definitely going to be
discussing climate change in2026, even if the politicians
don't do anything about it.
Events, natural disasters aregonna remind us.
I think there's there's nogetting away from that.
SPEAKER_17 (21:55):
Yeah, and look at the outcome of the plastics
treaty negotiations in Geneva,which again was you would have
thought was something that wecould have seen some progress
on, but it didn't materialize.
And then you look at thepowerful lobby of the fossil
fuel industries in COP meetings.
SPEAKER_09 (22:13):
Um they came to the plastics treaty as well.
SPEAKER_17 (22:16):
Uh indeed, but uh, I mean it just reminds you you
know where the power really liesat this point in this debate.
It is extraordinary.
SPEAKER_09 (22:24):
Nick, do you want to come with your story of 2025?
SPEAKER_12 (22:29):
Well, I suppose we ought to bring in Ukraine.
The Kyiv skyline on the fourthround of Russia's now weekly
concerted targeting of the waterin people's taps, the heating in
their holes.
SPEAKER_02 (22:47):
An unmanned Russian bomber drone punching a vast
hole in the side of thebuilding.
Three people lost their lives,more than ten were wounded,
including two children.
SPEAKER_17 (22:59):
We did have Ukrainian peace talks here in
Geneva quite recently.
And in a recent address to uhthe Human Rights Council,
Volkoturk, did bring up how allthe talk of peace had to some
extent eclipsed the humanitariantoll of this conflict.
The large numbers of Ukrainiansthat had been hunted down by sh,
(23:20):
you know, these short-rangedrones, um, which were
Apparently the Russian soldierscall it going on safari.
SPEAKER_09 (23:27):
This is yeah.
That you can they put they postit on YouTube.
SPEAKER_17 (23:31):
Well, he said that there had been more than 300
people, you know, individualssort of killed, riding in buses,
riding on cars, walking aroundand who are kind of chased and
hunted by these devices.
And he talked also quite grimlyabout um the astonishing reports
of torture and abuse ofUkrainian detainees, both
(23:54):
civilian and military.
I think he said that they'dinterviewed 187 who had been
returned, and 185 had documentedin detail extreme forms of
torture and abuse, includingsexual torture.
It gives you a pretty grimassessment on the state of a
conflict that all the talk ofpeace that was going to come
(24:17):
within 24 hours of PresidentTrump's uh election remains
really elusive.
SPEAKER_09 (24:23):
And the peace deal, we don't know quite what's in
the latest iteration, but theoriginal had a complete amnesty
for war crimes.
SPEAKER_17 (24:32):
Yeah, and we haven't seen anything that really
bridges um the positions of theEuropean states, not just
Ukraine, but Europe generally,and and the position of the
United States.
And and then, of course,President Putin, who uh remains
um completely obdurate andholding to positions that are
completely a non-starter as a asa as a basis for negotiation.
SPEAKER_09 (24:56):
Maybe this is a point where we should actually
bang the drum for the UnitedNations a bit, because the work
that the human rightsinvestigators are doing, whether
it's Ukraine, whether it'sSudan, whether it's Gaza, this
is really important.
Or Syria, for example.
That, you know, if you've had tosuffer this kind of violation,
at least the UN is providingsomebody who will document it
(25:21):
and validate, yes, this happenedto you, and maybe not today,
maybe not tomorrow, maybe notnext year, but at some point we
hope there will be someaccountability.
I mean, that's something I thinkwe could say, yeah, we still
need the UN in Geneva for.
SPEAKER_15 (25:34):
But that's tough because um people, when they
think about the UN, they mostlythink about its roles in
promoting peace in the world.
And so this mission obviouslyhasn't worked very well, or even
if it's if it comes tomediation, I think the Secretary
General has a little bit ofwiggle room when it comes to
offering his uh his services asa mediator.
(25:56):
But I mean, of course, theparties have to accept it, which
we can all imagine hasn't reallyhappened.
Um, but yeah, I think really inthe public's image, the fact
that there is such a war thatmost likely Ukraine will have to
give away part of its territory,so it really hurts what the UN
stands for, and and I guess uhyeah, international law more
(26:17):
broadly.
SPEAKER_17 (26:18):
But uh I mean, you know, the UN is only as good as
its member states.
And if the member states arestarving United Nations
humanitarian and internationalNGO humanitarian agencies of
funds, the best way to reducethe load that's left by
conflicts is to make peace.
And that comes back to theSecurity Council and the states
(26:39):
that live and serve on it, andwe have seen almost total
paralysis on the part of theUnited Nations Security Council.
SPEAKER_09 (26:47):
I think at the end of the day, if you have
superpowers and and you knowthree of them, they've got their
vetoes on the Security Council.
At the end of the day, if theydon't want to play ball, the UN
is basically paralyzed.
Apart from its humanitarianwing.
But even now, they are sufferingthis kind of politicization
(27:08):
because their funding is beingcut.
But if you look at Ukraine, forexample, the United States has
not at any point consulted theUnited Nations, not once, about
how you might.
I mean, we can criticize uh thethe UN Secretariat and so on,
all we like, but there arepeople there who have some
experience of peace building andon bringing people who are
(27:31):
completely violently opposedinto the room and encouraging
them to make some concessionsand look each other in the eye.
I'm sorry, but business realestate guys from Manhattan don't
have this kind of experience.
I mean, uh what what do wethink?
How does the UN kind of punch abit higher if somebody like
(27:51):
Trump or Putin's just going toignore the United Nations?
SPEAKER_06 (27:55):
When was the last time, though, that it was an
earnest attempt to broker an endto a conflict at all?
Syria?
Yes, possibly.
SPEAKER_17 (28:05):
Was it a serious attempt?
There was an attempt whichbrought in states as
peacemakers, states that wereactually arming the combatants.
So is that a serious attempt?
SPEAKER_06 (28:17):
We haven't seen the same leadership, though, as we
have had in previous uhgenerations.
And even the role of the UN aidchief, it there is some scope
for sort of backdoor diplomacy.
Maybe we're just not privy towhat's going on, but haven't
seen those those efforts.
And the US criticism of the UNis back to basics, broker ends
(28:41):
to conflicts.
We haven't seen as much of thatas we've seen in the past.
Maybe the Black Sea deal, youcould say, was good
old-fashioned diplomacy.
There was at least an agreementthere at one point, but we're
just not saying the same as Imean we shouldn't necessarily
underestimate that that was notan easy deal to get.
SPEAKER_09 (28:59):
You know, it sounds, oh God, but for goodness sake,
of course these ships can sailback and forth and deliver
grain.
But actually, this is the hardgraft that eventual peace or
ceasefires are built on, not aload of handshakes in the Oval
Office or the Kremlin with thecameras clicking.
SPEAKER_17 (29:17):
Well, we might segue from there into President Trump.
SPEAKER_09 (29:21):
I know you wanted to talk about him.
Um I want to talk about him tooon the subject of migration,
because that's one unifyingfactor I think I know is going
to be on the agenda in 2026.
But first, um President Trump.
SPEAKER_17 (29:37):
Well, just that here we are 11 and a half months into
his first term.
And everything that we havetalked about in some way, shape,
or form, has been powerfullytraced back to him.
Powerfully influenced by whathas or hasn't come out of
Washington, D.C.
And we have seen, you know, lovehim or loathe him.
I mean, this is probably themost consequential presidency of
(30:00):
this century in terms of what hehas done to governance within
the United States.
He's issued more executiveorders in the first 11 months
than he did in the whole of hisfirst term.
He's absolutely turned therelationship between the White
House and Congress on its on itshead, uh, expanded executive
power.
And then in terms of foreignpolicy, we see President Trump,
(30:22):
you know, asserting himself as agreat peacemaker.
But um at the same time, whenyou look at the negotiations
around Ukraine and the nationalsecurity policy that has just
come out of the White House, wehave seen essentially the
Transatlantic Alliance beingseverely strained, if not
impossibly fractured.
And that is that has been themost significant international
(30:45):
alliance underpinninginternational security since
World War II.
SPEAKER_09 (30:49):
Well, it's also kind of the impetus behind the
creation of the United Nations,the Transatlantic Alliance.
SPEAKER_17 (30:55):
So there we are.
But um, what's going to happenin 2026?
And we're seeing him losing someof his grip on the levers of
power that uh have sustained himso well in 2025.
I mean, we're seeing the MAGAbase showing distinct fractures.
We're seeing his poll ratings inrelation to economic management
(31:18):
slipping quite significantly.
We've seen the elections of uh,for example, uh a mayor in New
York and two governors that umuh were elected uh Democratic
candidates, elected on hugemargins, which I think is
significantly worryingRepublicans.
And we're seeing some fissuresin between Republican senators
(31:41):
and congressmen and the WhiteHouse in terms of foreign
policy.
So, yeah, uh a lot of questionsabout what he will be left with
come the midterms in November2026.
SPEAKER_09 (31:51):
Which could affect, I guess, what happens to us and
the institutions here.
I did read people are talkingabout it, this interview with
the White House Chief of Staff,Susie Wiles, in Vanity Fair.
She's quoted as saying she wasaghast at what Trump and Elon
Musk were doing to US foreignaid.
(32:12):
Did you do anything about herfeeling of being aghast?
I don't think so.
But I don't know.
I suspect he's still going to beliving rent-free in our brains
this time next year.
Can we turn to our final topic,which I thought we could all
talk about because it'sdefinitely on the agenda this
year and it will be on theagenda next year, and that is
(32:34):
migration.
SPEAKER_14 (32:36):
All illegal entry will immediately be halted, and
we will begin the process ofreturning millions and millions
of criminal aliens back to theplaces from which they came.
SPEAKER_13 (32:50):
The look may be festive, but the message is not
on a Sunday morning in Crobarumin the southeast of England.
SPEAKER_03 (33:07):
But it's incredibly important to me that we stop the
boats, to smash the gangs, andsmash the gangs, smashing the
gangs that are running thisabsolute vital trade.
SPEAKER_05 (33:15):
United States immigration and customs
enforcement ice is nowequivalent to some of the
largest military forces in theworld.
This virtual army is supposed tobe targeting criminal illegal
immigrants in the United States.
But more and more US citizensand legal immigrants are being
rounded up.
SPEAKER_09 (33:34):
I talked to, and Insight Geneva listeners, you
can hear that.
And he was dismayed.
He said it's a complete race tothe bottom with the politics of
(33:59):
migration, whether in Europe orin America.
And he said we're he basicallysaid Europe is throwing away its
civilization, the way it is isuh addressing this topic.
And this is one here.
We're getting a new UN refugeechief, I think will be announced
this week.
What do we think?
Because it's it the goalpostshave moved so far just in a few
(34:22):
years.
It's like migration is almostlike it's like this dirty word.
SPEAKER_06 (34:26):
It's interesting though, because there was this
race uh to replace FilippoGrandi as refugee chief, but
everyone still was defending the1951 convention.
There have been attempts toshift the definition of asylum
by uh the states, and in theUNGA earlier this year, you you
saw the Trump administrationtrying to narrow the definition
(34:47):
of asylum.
But so far, at least on amultilateral level in Geneva,
everyone is standing by it.
But yes, of course, every stateis is uh looking after their own
interests, and one of theproblems is that that sets a
very bad example for the stateswho are actually doing the most
to host to refugees and migrantsaround the world, which are
(35:08):
African countries like Chad orum Uganda or maybe Bangladesh in
Turkey for a while.
Turkey.
Yes.
And um I interviewed the head ofthe uh Danish Refugee Council,
Charlotte Slendt, the other day,and she said she's very worried
in 2026 about some of thosecountries saying, Well, why
should we open our doors?
(35:28):
You're not funding this anymore.
We're much poorer than you.
So why should we let them in?
SPEAKER_09 (35:34):
I mean, and that's as a recipe for instability and
more refugee flows, which iswhat Europe says, oh, it doesn't
want.
And America, of course, says itdoesn't want.
Dorian?
SPEAKER_15 (35:44):
No, Sophia, yeah, I fear that this narrative that uh
immigration is ruining Europe,uh, that Donald Trump's pushing,
obviously will inspire Europeanright-wing populist leaders.
And I think next year we'll heara lot more about this, and then
obviously as well with the whatDonald Trump is doing in the US,
(36:05):
as you said.
I mean, he's lowering the barreally low for what is
acceptable and is going againstuh international uh norms, you
know, non-refoolment or uhripping people off the streets.
SPEAKER_08 (36:16):
Yeah.
Enforced disappearance,actually.
SPEAKER_15 (36:19):
Yeah, exactly.
And so it just also weakeninginternational norms and uh the
funding for all the umorganizations here that are
dealing with this, whether it'sthe uh High Commissioner for
Refugees or the IOM or the uhHuman Rights Office, all those
have been some of the worstaffected organizations, so it's
(36:40):
not a good sign, I guess.
SPEAKER_09 (36:42):
Nick?
SPEAKER_17 (36:43):
Well, it's even in the UK you see a center-left
government under massivepressure to address the issues
of immigration and fearing thatit's it's going to, you know, if
an election were held tomorrowthat um its massive majority
would swing into the hands of ofa hard-right politician who
(37:04):
would completely change therules and would call for UK
withdrawn from the EuropeanCourt of Human Rights.
I mean, that's just kind of anindicator.
And we see right-winggovernments across Europe um
pushing this and and enormouspressures that are not being
properly resisted by governmentsthat I think uh have a mandate
(37:25):
to to pursue a sort of moreliberal policy.
SPEAKER_09 (37:27):
I wonder how the the UN, if it can at all, counter
this, because it is this kind ofsnake oil salesman thing.
You are feeling bad, you can'tget a doctor's appointment, you
can't get a house, it's thatperson's fault over there who
doesn't look like you, whodoesn't speak the same language
as you.
A rational person actually knowsthis is nonsense.
(37:48):
We know it's because ourgovernments don't invest or
they're investing in in thewrong things, or they haven't
planned for the for the longterm.
And yet it works.
And I I remember in it must havebeen 2016, 2017, everybody talks
now about what a disaster it wasfor Angela Merkel to say
(38:09):
Wirtschaffen das.
Do you remember that?
And they let in the Syrianrefugees.
But sometime around 2017-2018,the the UN Refugee Agency they
did a series of little filmsabout Syrians living in Germany,
completely integrated.
I mean, okay, it was a it was agood news story, but do we need
more of that?
I mean, they they interviewed abus driver and a nurse and
(38:31):
people who are doing jobs thatGermany needs.
SPEAKER_06 (38:33):
It will be interesting to see what um Barem
Saleh, the new HighCommissioner, from Iraq.
From Iraq.
Exactly.
Not the first uh refugee,apparently, to head the agency,
the second after Van Hoeven, inum who escaped from the
Netherlands in the Second WorldWar.
But it will be exciting to hear,I think, directly from a former
(38:54):
refugee, a success story,someone who found an exit plan
and became the head of acountry.
What better example of apositive contribution to
society?
SPEAKER_17 (39:07):
Well, it was interesting too.
I mean, in the answers that hegave to the questionnaire, which
went to all the candidates thatthey identified as candidates,
um, his answers stressed theimportance of UNHCR's protection
mandate.
And the other particular themethat I I f saw I thought was
quite heavily stressed in hisanswers was the principle of
(39:30):
inclusion, the importance ofincluding refugee and asylum
seeker and stateless people'svoices in shaping refugee
policy.
So uh that was a point that umPhilippo Grandi, the outgoing
chief, made in his finalremarks.
It's it's going to be one of thechallenges, and we all wish him
well in seeing how he's able todeliver on it.
SPEAKER_09 (39:50):
Well, we do wish him well, but I do think one thing,
if you if you could haverefugees more involved with the
policy, but also more intoschools, tell people about the
experiences.
You know, not unfortunately,even though we accept, but not
very many, we accept refugees inEurope.
How often do we actually sitdown and talk to them, to asylum
(40:13):
seekers?
But on that note, we ended onmigration in part because we're
just at the start of 2026.
Now we are going to have aspecial on migration in
February.
We can have a look at how thefirst few weeks of the new High
Commissioner for Refugees.
We are going to be looking atdisinformation at some point
(40:36):
this year, and we're going to belooking at what is the point of
foreign.
Aid with yaysayers andnaysayers.
So tune in for all of that fornow.
That's it.
Thank you, Dorian, Emma, andNick.
And all the very best for whatwe hope will be a brighter and
more positive 2026.
A reminder (41:04):
you've been listening to Inside Geneva, a
Swiss Info production.
You can subscribe to us andreview us wherever you get your
podcasts.
Check out our previous episodeshow the International Red Cross
unites prisoners of war withtheir families, or why survivors
of human rights violations turnto the UN in Geneva for justice.
(41:28):
I'm Imogen Folks.
Thanks again for listening.
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