December 26, 2025 • 39 mins
In this episode of Main Street Matters, Elaine Parker and Jeremiah Poff of the Washington Examiner discuss the challenges faced by millennials and Gen Z in achieving home ownership and building wealth. They explore the economic shifts from a production-driven economy to a consumption-driven one, the impact of inflation on housing prices, and the role of student debt in economic mobility. The conversation highlights the importance of local economic drivers and corporate responsibility in creating sustainable communities. They also address the need for effective messaging of economic policies to connect with everyday Americans.
Read Jeremiah's work at the Washington Examiner
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
America is home to thirty three million small businesses, the
beating heart of communities across the country, and proof that
the American dream is still alive.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This is a show about those dreamers and doers and
the communities they serve, their real life stories, their spriddles
and successes.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Their grit, determination and passion.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And the people who fight.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
To keep their American dream alive.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm alfreda Ortiz, I'm a Lane Parker, and it's time
for another episode of main Street Matters, America's Small Business Megaphone.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of main
Street Matters, America's Small Business Megaphone. I'm a Lane Parker
with the Job Creators Network, and today we're joined by
Jeremiah Poff.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
He is the Restoring America editor at the Washington Examiner.
He's a great piece that's just been published discussing that
millennials and Gen zs are entering the workforce more educated
and more productive than any other generation before them, yet
they're falling behind when it comes to home ownership and
wealth building.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Welcome to the show, Jeremiah, Thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well. I am a gen xer, so I think we're
of course the most educated and the most productive.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
And the most forgotten generation. Let's not forget that, it's true.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Forget we jump from boomers to millennials very quickly.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, yeah, I think we're just too small with generation
in general. So, but the piece he wrote about how
millennials and Gen zs are more educated, more productive than
any other generation, which I'll put a little asterisk next to,
but they're falling behind economically. What do you think explains
(01:53):
the disconnect?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, you know, I think that there's the way that
the economy has been built over the last thirty forty years.
I think has is a big departure from the one
that you know, my parents' generation grew up with. You know,
we went from an economy that was built primarily around
production to one that's more driven primarily by consumption. And
(02:17):
that's often you know, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, right,
but there's that's going that can lead to some different
ways and downstream effects. So that's why you see, you know,
major industrial towns from the Midwest, you know, saw their
economic engines move overseas because it was cheaper to make
things over there and then import them into the US,
(02:39):
and you know, but when it comes to like generationally specifically,
you know, young people Gen Z millennials versus you know
Gen X and boomers. I think one of the things
that we've and I mentioned this in the piece, is
that the one of the things that's made this income
and wealth gap grows so much is that housing affordability
(03:02):
is not there at all. You can go live in
you know, Flint, Michigan if you wanted to, and you
could buy a house there, but there's no economic engine there,
so you can't live there. So then you go to Philadelphia,
or you go to Washington, DC or New York City
where there is jobs an opportunity there, but then you
(03:25):
can't afford a house, and so you're kind of caught
in this, you know, almost impossible situation where you have
to either choose between owning your own property or having
a job. And honestly, that's not at that's not that's
not a real decision because you can't buy a house
if you don't have a job, and you can't have
(03:47):
a job if you know, if you don't have anywhere
to live nearby. So that's the.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Average price of a home.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
From what I've read in twenty eighteen was two hundred
thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, and it's like almost four hundred thousand now it is.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Four hundred thousand.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It hit four hundred thousand in twenty twenty four, late
twenty three twenty four is when I read it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
That seems unreal to me.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And you know, one of the big reasons why is
that we stopped building houses, and especially after two thousand
and eight, you know, the market crashes, real estate value tanks,
there was no incentive to build new housing because it
was not profitable. And so then you went a long
(04:33):
period of time that where there was still population growth,
where you didn't build, where there was like no housing
being built in major areas. Now, obviously there's other regulatory
reasons and zoning things and yimbi's and all that, and
we can get into that, but as a broader trend,
like you know, it stopped being profitable to build houses
until relatively recently because the market finally caught back up
(04:56):
to where it had been before the crash. And you know,
and that's a big part of why the wealth gap
exists because you have older people who own homes and
don't want to sell them, and they own starter homes
in a lot of cases, I live in it. You know,
in northern Virginia for instance, where I live, there's a
if you want to buy a fifteen hundred bedroom townhouse,
(05:19):
which is a starter home for most families generally speaking,
you have to go and you have to come up
with six hundred, seven hundred thousand dollars. Twenty years ago
you had to you could buy that house for one
hundred and fifty thousand dollars. And so what you see
is the people who did buy that house at one
hundred and two thousand dollars in nineteen ninety five or whatever,
(05:41):
they still own it, and they still hold onto it,
and they don't want to sell it because what you know, one,
if they sell it, then they have to go buy
another house for a million dollars. And two, there's no
incentive to them to sell it because they can keep
holding onto it, so that eventually when they do sell it,
they're going to make a whole lot of money.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, and if they if they do have a still
still have a mortgage on it, it's likely that the rates
are much lower, right, I.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Mean, you're going to go from a payment of you know,
three four hundred and five hundred dollars a month to
three four thousand dollars a month. So the incentive is
effectively there to not sell your house whereas you know,
and the starter home if you and now we're going
to build a new starter home, even if you're just
a builder, you're going to sell it for four five hundred,
(06:29):
six hundred thousand dollars. And somebody on a what was
ostensibly a middle class income before it can't really afford
that unless they have at least two incomes.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, I mean, when you think about baby boomers, she
talked about more the economy was more manufacturing, production driven,
and we're now seventy percent of a consumption economy. I mean,
that's what drives us, right, So when you think about
what the path the home ownership is and how it's
changed from baby boomers to no, I mean, can you
(07:01):
talk about that difference.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I think there's a direct correlation between the shift and
a consumption economy from a production economy to a consumption economy,
because when you have a production economy, there's an incentive
for companies to subsidize and or encourage the building of
housing near their factories, near their offices because they need
people to work there. And when you move to a
consumption economy, you have far less of that because most
(07:27):
of what you're trying to do is get people to
buy your product, and you can do that anywhere, and
so you don't really care where people live, and you
don't really care how they're going to you know, do
that because they can buy your product whether they live
in Flint, Michigan, or they live in Los Angeles, and
(07:48):
you know, that's works well for the company, but it
doesn't create it doesn't create the incentives needed to build
housing and whatnot in a certain area. And then the
other thing that I mentioned in the piece is that
there's a it's a lot easier to make high The
production that we do have is very very efficient and
technologically assisted, and so what you know, what used to
(08:12):
take five thousand factory workers now takes five hundred, and
so when you do and so you have you're still
creating the same amount of wealth and value as a product,
as an entity, whereas you need far less people to
do it, and so you don't really need to focus
on what am I going to do, you know, locally
(08:32):
to create you know, incentives for people to move and
live here.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So for so from my perspective as someone who hasn't
sort of studied the different generations, I I my, you know,
non economic mind. I look at it and say.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Hey, I'm not an economist either.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
My gosh, the cost ye I'm going to talk to
like normal to normal people listening, but my gosh, the
cost of living is so high that I can't imagine.
Like I know, I remember my parents, who were baby bimmers,
talking about their first house that they bought in Fairfax, Virginia,
(09:17):
where I was born, and their first house was something
like twenty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I mean that's insane. I mean, even adjusted for inflation.
That's you're not you're not talking like you're talking like
one hundred and twenty hundred and thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think, yeah, but the interestry the mortgage rates that
they paid were like thirteen percent, fourteen percent, maybe fifteen percent,
I mean it was, it was in the teens.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
And so I mean those are just incredibly high.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And then I know when we moved to Florida, I
know exactly what they paid for the house. It was
a four bedroom, two bath house with a pool, Uni
typical Florida home. But it was in nineteen seventy eight.
They paid eighty thousand dollars for the house. In nineteen
nineties late nineties they sold it for double So think
(10:09):
about the increase today.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Less than twenty years, they made double their money on that.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
House, right, But people are making double their money on
have been making double their money on houses, you know
since well in the last six, seven, eight years.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
That's that's the expectation.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well, and I think that that speaks to a big shift.
I think people don't really if you go back to
when your parents were first buying a house in nineteen
sixties early nineteen seventies, that time period, we didn't think
of housing as a real estate as a like, as
an appreciating asset so much as just the place that
(10:48):
you lived and if you had more. You know, it's
like having a car, right, if you had the money,
you could buy a fancier car or you but if
you didn't, you bought you know, the lower end models
that you that would get you from point A to
point B. That's still how we think about cars. It's
just a mode of transportation. It's flashier. If you're rich
with housing, it became from the place that you lived
(11:10):
to now I'm this is like a investment in the
future that I can then sell for three two, three
four times its value down the road to somebody who
just needs a place to live. And when you I
think the real problem especially is that when you started
(11:30):
turning starter homes and condos things that where people got
their foot in the door to start building, you know,
stability in their lives. When you started shifting that from
a this is where you live to this is how
you this is how you make wealth, that shift changed
the way that we thought thought about housing and thought
(11:51):
and it is a big, I think driver for why
we now have this massive wealth divide between older generations
and younger generations.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Well, I was going to ask you, you know our
younger workers earning less than the previous generations, or we
just have so much inflation because what you just said
about housing and the inflation on houses, to me, it
sounds like it's inflation.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
That's that's our issue.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Okay. I mean inflation has certainly contributed to it, and
I won't. I mean, the value of a house in
nineteen seventy adjusted for inflation is not the same as
it was that today, you know, as it's just you're right,
that is absolutely consideration, but it's not the only one.
And the real estate market has very rapidly outpaced the
(12:40):
rate of inflation over the last fifties years or so.
So you mentioned your parents house in Florida, that they
doubled their money in ten twelve years or whatever it was.
I mean that outpaced inflation by a significant amount. I mean,
my parents bought their house in the country in Virginia
for three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in two
thousand and five. That house today is worth about seven
(13:02):
hundred but it was.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
About it was almost it was like between fifteen and
twenty years before they sold it to double their money.
In the last ten years, we're seeing people double their money,
triple their money. Qut gooble their money on homes in
under five years sometimes right, Most.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Of the appreciation my parents' house has occurred in the
last five six years. There you go in two thousand,
I think in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, their house was
like worth like an extra thirty forty thousand for what
they bought it, and now it's so much more. That's
and that's that's an unsustainable that's so unsustainable because you know,
(13:44):
this is why I think that the right in conservatives
broadly speaking, need to kind of wake up to this
issue that wealth gaps are what drive revolutionary movements. And
when you think when you think you're doing everything right
and you're putting, you're doing all the decision you know,
(14:05):
you're going to college if that's or you're learning a trade,
you're getting yourself a stable job and saying, Okay, now
I'm going to get married and I have kids and
I'm going to provide for them. And then you all
of a sudden, you know you can't afford a place
to live, and you can't afford to put groceries to
buy groceries because you start having to make decisions between
groceries and school, and you know, and that sort of thing.
(14:26):
Those are all create a sense of anxiety and anger
that I think is really what has defined the political
the political movements of the last ten years.
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you and your small business. Well, and I think when
you say conservatives need to wake up to this, I
agree because I agree there's a problem. You know, when
you look back at the student loan bailout that the
(16:12):
Biden administration wanted you know to move forward with and
did with their workarounds, even in spite of what the
Supreme Court came back and said.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
When you looked at polling on that, it was well.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Over sixty percent of Americans agreed with assisting, if not
bailing out these people carrying these loans because they can't
begin their life, they can't come with their life. Now,
did I agree with helping these students who were carrying
these loans for ten twenty thirty years and getting nowhere
(16:46):
and paying them down. Yes, I just disagreed with how
they're approaching it because I don't think that they were
dealing with the root cause of the problem. So if
you deal with the root cause of the problem and
then you give them assistance, I would have been okay,
hay with it in that order. But I didn't agree
with just because it didn't solve the problem of what
the colleges are and you were still.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Going to have you're still going to have. You know,
everyone who's still going to college is still going to
take on absurd amounts of debt and be weighed down
by that for twenty thirty years going.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Forward, or have expectations of more bailouts like we were
never going to be done with the bailout because the
universities were going to say, kaching, Thank god. Exactly, we
can keep raising tuition and keep hiring you know, administrators,
we can keep building taj malls and no one's going.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
To stop us. And the government's going to bail these
kids out. So it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But you speak to some but it being you said
the sixty percent, you know, pull people supported it to some,
you know some you know, that issue right there, I
think speaks to the fact that people recognize that the
way that people are starting their lives today, young people
(17:56):
are starting their lives today after they've you know, they
got their four year degree and ready to you know,
enter the workforce is so vastly different than what it
was even twenty years ago. And where you know, I
did when I was on the education beat, I did
a I did a piece like comparing how like the
(18:17):
average amount of student debt and the average tuition had
been had grown over the last thirty years. And I mean,
it's it's astounding. Even in the early two thousands, where
it had already gone up a substantial amount, it was,
it's still it's even more absurdly high today.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah. I mean, look, I've made decisions, and my family
made decisions. My parents was to stay in state. I mean,
do things as inexpensively as possible. Because my parents said
to me, the greatest gift I could give you is
to help you graduate debt free. And so I told
my children the same thing. The greatest gift I can
(18:56):
give you is to help you graduate debt free.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
But I can't do it. If you're going to go
out to state.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
To a school that is thirty forty fifty thousand dollars
a year, It's like it's not even going to happen.
Florida is unique in that we do have good, a
very good university system, and it's very affordable here to
go to college. It's it is the living expenses, going
back to your housing issue, but the living expenses that
(19:24):
are so expensive.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
And putting going to college.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
So my kids understand now, especially the one that just
got married and bought and bought her first house and
everything like that, understands that the mortgage person was like,
oh my gosh, you're like nearly debt free. You know,
actually she was a debt free and then you have
a car payment at that point when they when she
was going through the mortgage process, no student loans, and
(19:52):
she just the mortgage person said, she just doesn't see
that in young people today. And so that is the
moment that my twenty at the time, she was twenty
three to twenty four years old.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Buying her first house.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I don't think that's happening for twenty three and twenty
four year olds right now.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's very, very rare, and it largely depends on where
you live.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Yeah, well, yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I mean I went to a small Catholic school in
eastern Ohio and Steubenville, which was at one point a
major steel in a steal and coal, you know, in
the industrial town, and today is completely dilapidated and it's
hollowed out. And the main economic engine of that town
(20:37):
is the university at this point and the healthcare system,
because that's always the case. But one of the things
that I've seen, you know, people that I graduated college with,
they go back to they go back there looking for
community and you know, trying to get jobs at the
university or something because they can afford to buy a
house there for seventy eighty thousand dollars. But then you
(20:59):
look at the house and it's you know, it was
built in probably nineteen twenty, and it's in horrific disrepair.
So you end up spending another forty fifty thousand dollars
to just get it livable. And but you have to
live in this, and you know, and you're all you're
doing is counting on getting a job at this one
made one economic you know, driver in this in the community,
(21:22):
whereas the people who had you know, roots in that
town for generations, they've all left if they could, or
they're trapped in their house because they can't leave because
they can't afford to sell it.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, I think, I think so that's a point that
I think I haven't examined as closely. I mean I
loosely knew it because we have a small business owner,
a manufacturer who's in western Pennsylvania rural area actually summer set,
Pennsylvania right now where the nine to eleven plane went down,
(21:53):
not too far from where his facility is. It's a
small town. He's he employs about a hunt hundred and
fifty to two hundred people at any time, from janitors
to chemical engineers. So there's a lot of jobs available
at different levels and he saw the youth leaving the
(22:16):
town because there was no economic driver there. And one
of the things that say like the Tax Cuts and
Jobs Act did for him was it allowed him to
expand his facility to hire more people, pay higher wages.
And one of the biggest things that he always focuses
on about what the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act did
was it allowed him to offer, for the first time
(22:39):
in the fifteen years that he'd had the company ten
fifteen years, to offer a four toh one k. So
now you're talking careers all the way to retirement because
they can actually put money away. He can match all
of those things. And he said, the reason why that
was so important was because the youth was leaving the
(23:00):
town and I needed to take responsibility as an employer
to become an economic engine and create that. And so
now not just because of him, but other employers were,
but he's considered large. So all of those factors that
you're talking about are so important. And so when you
look at government policy, tasks and Jobs.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Act was a great incubator for doing that.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
And if we could see more things like that happen
again western rural Pennsylvania. And he's created an economy that
can keep a talent alive.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And I think, I think when people often in business,
and this is I think one of the reasons why
there's such an animosity towards large corporations and Wall Street
is that those large corporations and Wall Street don't often
feel as though they have a fiduciary and moral duty
to the communities where they establish their business operations.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think the quint essential example of it is Boeing,
which has been through some really bad series of public
very and tragic events over the last decade. But their
headquarters was in Seattle. It was in the same building
where they built all their seven forty sevens for decades,
(24:27):
and then in the late nineties they moved it to Chicago,
but kept the plant in Seattle, and then they moved
it again to Washington, d c. And to me, that
kind of it exemplified like you've just divorced the people
who work for the company from the people who run
the company, and they don't feel there's no longer a
(24:48):
sense of duty to from one to the other anymore,
and you end up with things like bad quality products
that end up in the loss of lives, and you
end up in a situation where the companies willing to
cut jobs that are necessary in order to maintain those
high standards of quality, because all they're looking at is
the bottom line. They're not looking at the way that
(25:09):
people are approaching the jobs and what that those jobs
mean for the community and for the product that you're creating.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
So it's it's just it's such an easier message for
the left and Democrats in general, who and especially the
Democrats like in zoor On Mundami. You know he's running
on this whatever you want to call it, democratic socialist message,
but well.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
It's resentment politics, basically put.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
But it's an easy message because of what you've what
you've just laid out, and that conservatives are saying, well,
you know, you just have to work hard, and you
know the more the lower the taxes, the better you'll do.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
And what what what.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Conservatives need to do is really take a moment and
look at stories like what I just told you, and
when you say the moral obligation that small business owners,
this particular small business owner took upon himself. He just manufacturer,
that's it. He's just a guy who makes chemical compounds.
And he looked around and said I'm not going to
(26:19):
have anybody to hire at my company.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I'm going to retire.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I might sell it, but there's going to be no
one left to work at my company that I have
built my whole life, my whole career, unless I figure
out how to create an economic engine. So it's not
that conservatives don't have the policies or the ideas. I
don't think we're educating Americans and other entrepreneurs about how
(26:48):
the domino effect that can occur with the right policies
and with the small business owners across the country bringing
back manufacturing and creating these economic centers.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think Trump was the only person in my lifetime
to really on a national scale to talk about it
in that way. He because he you know, he when
did he go He went to he went to Detroit
and said, they stole your jobs and we're going to
bring them back. I mean that, you know, and you know,
the old guard of the Republican Party kind of lost
(27:20):
their minds because they were like, well, you know, we
want cheap things like that's you know, if you bring
them back, it's going to be more expensive. But that
I think ignores the value of the job itself, because
it's not we don't look at you know. Scott Best
said earlier this year that the essence of the American
dream is not cheap goods. And I thought that was
such a great quote because it is true. We don't
(27:42):
look at our quality of life based on how cheap
it is to buy, you know, the latest television set
or a smartphone, or even groceries for that matter, which
just kept getting more keep getting more expensive on you know,
but that's not what meant our quality of life measured
by It's like, it's do we have a job, do
we have stability in our lives? And can we provide
(28:04):
for our families? And that's I think, you know, we
can forego cheap TVs and you know, streaming services and
all this other stuff that have been major growth booms
in the economy. If we can go, if we can
still have the jobs that made our community strong.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Is a policy, I mean, like, I think, what.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Are some policies that can that can help, you know,
I think, but you know, there's also I think been
a bit of a mindset shift among professional classes in general,
you know, whether it's those who work in corporate in
large corporations and and or even in business and in
(28:52):
business in general, or even in the government that you know,
the companies are there to make money and create shareholder value,
and I think it's there's an ignorance about the responsibilities
that they have in turn to their communities. And you know,
one of the things that conservatives like to do when
they talk about the free market is that any sort
(29:14):
of criticism of corporations is like, is effectively socialism. And
I think that's a mistake. And I think that that's
one thing that people that you know, there was a
who was cheering the trade deals that moved all those
jobs to China and Mexico. The corporations were even though
they were enabled by the company by the government, and
(29:37):
the government was the one that created the avenues for
them to do that. And I think that's a that's
you know, that's an important part that needs to be
considered in all this that being said Zoron Mamdani, Bernie Sanders,
And you know, when they talk about these things, they're
looking they they're tapping into an anger and then presenting
a vision of a solution that will all result in
(30:01):
more problems.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But what's what's the but what is the saying in
the absence of a plan.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
My plan is the best plan.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well right exactly, you know, and and Trump is the
Trump's the only person who's even tried to propose a
decent plan in response among prominent people in the Republican
Party and on the right, because he said, Okay, we're
going to start putting tariffs on foreign goods, so that
which is going to make it more expensive to make
(30:29):
them over there. You know, hopefully it'll make you know,
lead to enhanced production here. You know, it's going to
take years to see if that actually bears out. You know,
we're only in eight months of this administration. But it
was a plan that people could identify with. And I
think that that's you know, that what you just said
(30:51):
really really matters, because if I look at the system,
I'm a young person, you know, I think, you know,
I work in politics. I think a lot about this,
a lot more than most people do. But if I'm
an average person who says, okay, I've seen, you know,
as I was growing up, I've seen the quality of
life in my town decline. And now that I'm old
(31:13):
enough to have a job, I can't find one, even
though I went, even though I've like tried to do
everything right. And I hear politicians talking large platitudes about
all this, you know, about these things, and they keep
going back to Washington for you know, two and six years,
and then they come back here and say the same thing,
and they nothing changes. I'm just going to look, I'm
(31:35):
just going to vote for the guy who vote who
promises to destroy the whole thing. And and Trump it
was that for you know, in the presidential election. And
I in New York City, where cost of living is
like five thousand dollars a month for a studio apartment.
That's or Mamdani. You know, we can we can criticize
him for his insane ideas like government run grocery stores
(31:59):
and whatever else he's got planned, and you know, high
taxes on the rich that are just going to leave town.
But he's speaking, he's presenting, he's presenting a solution and
no one else's and so he's vowing to break the system.
So we're just going to vote for that guy, because
there's even though I think some of these people might
(32:21):
not even be socialists, they're just going to vote for
the socialists because there's no one else to vote for.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Well, so I think it's not just policy, because I
do think that policies that have come out of the
Trump administration, I think there are really good ideas on
the conservative side, I think that they don't go far enough.
And you're right, Trump's probably come the closest to connecting the.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Dots that you are have uncovered.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
And yes, you think about it more than most people
because probably because your age group, but also you're living it.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
And then you also see the politics.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Up front, So for you, you can connect all those dots.
I think telling the stories of these small business owners,
and I do think it's small business owners. I'm certainly
not an apologist for cor big corporations. I mean I've
gone toe to toe with policies that helped corporations, big
(33:20):
corporations in spite of who are you know who founded us?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
You know, found a job creator network because you know, Bernie.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Marcus always said the corporations will take care of themselves.
You know, even his what he was always worried about
was the small business owners because of the disproportion impact
of these policies on small businesses. But if we were
able to get these stories out, and I'm happy to
introduce you to some of these small business owners who
can say this policy caused me to make these decisions,
(33:51):
what's resulted in these consequences and help benefited not just
my company, not just my employees, but my community in
these ways. I think that getting those stories out, which
is what I try to do, is one of the
best ways to help educate Americans, and so one it
would maybe help conservatives and Republicans understand how to message
(34:15):
their policies better, which I think is again I think
Trump's probably the only person and the best person who's
done that, although closely followed by Scott Bessens.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
I think he's amazing too.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
But Democrats always seem to be able to message what
their what their policies are in such a stronger way
that connects to people's hearts. And that has been why
somebody like a Mandami is able to.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Do so well.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
And granted you think, oh, well, it's New York City.
Of course he's going to do well, you know, in
a in a city like that, But I don't think
so that's like the that's the free market capital.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Of the world.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, well, I think one of the reasons I think
you you, I think you're you made a really good
point there that these stories, especially about how Democrats and
Republicans don't do a very good or Republicans don't do
a good job of connecting what they've been doing to
the lives of individual people and business owners, whereas Democrats
(35:17):
are always eager to show the you know, look at
this poor woman, you know, a single mother with four
kids who's not going to be able to go to
the doctor anymore because of Republican Medicaid cuts, which usually
isn't even true anyway, what they're what they're make they
give a human face to a to what to the
message that they're trying to convey. Republicans actually do this
(35:40):
really well on immigration.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
It's theater. It is theater for Democrats.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
They have a script, they have actors, they have a stage,
and they have a platform with the media to carry
their message, to.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Carry their I mean it's true, but you know, you know,
it doesn't mean that Republicans can't do it too. I mean,
Trump did a really good job I think in promoting
you know, the you know, showcasing the people who are
affected by the lawless border policies of the Biden administration
throughout his campaign and even since then, or and now
(36:19):
even what he's doing with the crime in Washington, DC.
You could do that with with the economics of you know,
of the economic policies that he's trying to do, and
showing how small businesses and you know, not the big
corporations that everyone likes to vilify, but how dad, how
(36:41):
the day to day you know, businesses that we love
are affected by what happens in Washington, and how what
the Trumpet, what what the Trump administration is doing is
helping them, And those are the kinds of things that
can counter people like Mom, Donnie. But you know, the
other thing you're dealing with is that New York City
is a captive electorate in a certain sense.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So you know, Andrew Cuomo is not the answer there
because he can't really articulate a reason for why he's running.
You know, I'm not he's going to win because he's
not running against anyone who's offering a competing vision other
than the status quo.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Right, Yeah, Yeah, Well, I could talk to you for
probably two more hours, and I know when we met
last year at Starbucks, we spent probably two hours talking
about college.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I think I told you that that that Trump was
going to win the popular vote, and you were very
shocked that I said that, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Only because Republicans never win the popular vote. But he
continues to defy the odds in every way, and I
think he's I think his policies have been great for
the country and for everyday ordinary Americans, which we haven't
seen that in a long time. I worry about beyond
(37:58):
Trump and who can carry the message and and bring
those messages to two cities like Detroit that are just
so simple. They took your jobs, and I'm here to
bring them back. I mean, yeah, it's so easy. Well,
I'd love to have you back because I think there's
there's a lot bit of cover, but we're out of
time today. Tell everyone how they can follow you and
(38:20):
your writings at the Washington Examiner.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well, first, you can always check the Washington Examiner website
and you know, subscribe. We've also I'm also on x
at JJ Underscore Poffs, so I usually post my pieces
on there. But yeah, both of those are good ways
that We also have a lot of great content at
the Washington Examiner too, so I'm not the only word
person that writes there.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Definitely, and definitely not great content at the Washington Examiner
for sure. Well, Jeremiah, thanks so much for joining us
today on main Street Matters, America's small business megaphone, and
thank you all for taking the time to tune in.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Main Street Matters is.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Part of the Salem Podcast Network. New episode's debut every
Wednesday and Friday. You can subscribe to the show wherever
you get your podcasts from, and we'll be back soon
with another episode.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Bye for now.
America is home to thirty three million small businesses, the
beating heart of communities across the country, and proof that
the American dream is still alive.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
This is a show about those dreamers and doers and
the communities they serve, their real life stories, their spriddles
and successes.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Their grit, determination and passion.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
And the people who fight.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
To keep their American dream alive.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I'm alfreda Ortiz, I'm a Lane Parker, and it's time
for another episode of main Street Matters, America's Small Business Megaphone.
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of main
Street Matters, America's Small Business Megaphone. I'm a Lane Parker
with the Job Creators Network, and today we're joined by
Jeremiah Poff.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
He is the Restoring America editor at the Washington Examiner.
He's a great piece that's just been published discussing that
millennials and Gen zs are entering the workforce more educated
and more productive than any other generation before them, yet
they're falling behind when it comes to home ownership and
wealth building.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Welcome to the show, Jeremiah, Thank you so much for
having me.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
Well. I am a gen xer, so I think we're
of course the most educated and the most productive.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
And the most forgotten generation. Let's not forget that, it's true.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Forget we jump from boomers to millennials very quickly.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah, yeah, I think we're just too small with generation
in general. So, but the piece he wrote about how
millennials and Gen zs are more educated, more productive than
any other generation, which I'll put a little asterisk next to,
but they're falling behind economically. What do you think explains
(01:53):
the disconnect?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, you know, I think that there's the way that
the economy has been built over the last thirty forty years.
I think has is a big departure from the one
that you know, my parents' generation grew up with. You know,
we went from an economy that was built primarily around
production to one that's more driven primarily by consumption. And
(02:17):
that's often you know, there's nothing inherently wrong with that, right,
but there's that's going that can lead to some different
ways and downstream effects. So that's why you see, you know,
major industrial towns from the Midwest, you know, saw their
economic engines move overseas because it was cheaper to make
things over there and then import them into the US,
(02:39):
and you know, but when it comes to like generationally specifically,
you know, young people Gen Z millennials versus you know
Gen X and boomers. I think one of the things
that we've and I mentioned this in the piece, is
that the one of the things that's made this income
and wealth gap grows so much is that housing affordability
(03:02):
is not there at all. You can go live in
you know, Flint, Michigan if you wanted to, and you
could buy a house there, but there's no economic engine there,
so you can't live there. So then you go to Philadelphia,
or you go to Washington, DC or New York City
where there is jobs an opportunity there, but then you
(03:25):
can't afford a house, and so you're kind of caught
in this, you know, almost impossible situation where you have
to either choose between owning your own property or having
a job. And honestly, that's not at that's not that's
not a real decision because you can't buy a house
if you don't have a job, and you can't have
(03:47):
a job if you know, if you don't have anywhere
to live nearby. So that's the.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Average price of a home.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
From what I've read in twenty eighteen was two hundred
thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, and it's like almost four hundred thousand now it is.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Four hundred thousand.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
It hit four hundred thousand in twenty twenty four, late
twenty three twenty four is when I read it.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
That seems unreal to me.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
And you know, one of the big reasons why is
that we stopped building houses, and especially after two thousand
and eight, you know, the market crashes, real estate value tanks,
there was no incentive to build new housing because it
was not profitable. And so then you went a long
(04:33):
period of time that where there was still population growth,
where you didn't build, where there was like no housing
being built in major areas. Now, obviously there's other regulatory
reasons and zoning things and yimbi's and all that, and
we can get into that, but as a broader trend,
like you know, it stopped being profitable to build houses
until relatively recently because the market finally caught back up
(04:56):
to where it had been before the crash. And you know,
and that's a big part of why the wealth gap
exists because you have older people who own homes and
don't want to sell them, and they own starter homes
in a lot of cases, I live in it. You know,
in northern Virginia for instance, where I live, there's a
if you want to buy a fifteen hundred bedroom townhouse,
(05:19):
which is a starter home for most families generally speaking,
you have to go and you have to come up
with six hundred, seven hundred thousand dollars. Twenty years ago
you had to you could buy that house for one
hundred and fifty thousand dollars. And so what you see
is the people who did buy that house at one
hundred and two thousand dollars in nineteen ninety five or whatever,
(05:41):
they still own it, and they still hold onto it,
and they don't want to sell it because what you know, one,
if they sell it, then they have to go buy
another house for a million dollars. And two, there's no
incentive to them to sell it because they can keep
holding onto it, so that eventually when they do sell it,
they're going to make a whole lot of money.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, and if they if they do have a still
still have a mortgage on it, it's likely that the rates
are much lower, right, I.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Mean, you're going to go from a payment of you know,
three four hundred and five hundred dollars a month to
three four thousand dollars a month. So the incentive is
effectively there to not sell your house whereas you know,
and the starter home if you and now we're going
to build a new starter home, even if you're just
a builder, you're going to sell it for four five hundred,
(06:29):
six hundred thousand dollars. And somebody on a what was
ostensibly a middle class income before it can't really afford
that unless they have at least two incomes.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Well, I mean, when you think about baby boomers, she
talked about more the economy was more manufacturing, production driven,
and we're now seventy percent of a consumption economy. I mean,
that's what drives us, right, So when you think about
what the path the home ownership is and how it's
changed from baby boomers to no, I mean, can you
(07:01):
talk about that difference.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I think there's a direct correlation between the shift and
a consumption economy from a production economy to a consumption economy,
because when you have a production economy, there's an incentive
for companies to subsidize and or encourage the building of
housing near their factories, near their offices because they need
people to work there. And when you move to a
consumption economy, you have far less of that because most
(07:27):
of what you're trying to do is get people to
buy your product, and you can do that anywhere, and
so you don't really care where people live, and you
don't really care how they're going to you know, do
that because they can buy your product whether they live
in Flint, Michigan, or they live in Los Angeles, and
(07:48):
you know, that's works well for the company, but it
doesn't create it doesn't create the incentives needed to build
housing and whatnot in a certain area. And then the
other thing that I mentioned in the piece is that
there's a it's a lot easier to make high The
production that we do have is very very efficient and
technologically assisted, and so what you know, what used to
(08:12):
take five thousand factory workers now takes five hundred, and
so when you do and so you have you're still
creating the same amount of wealth and value as a product,
as an entity, whereas you need far less people to
do it, and so you don't really need to focus
on what am I going to do, you know, locally
(08:32):
to create you know, incentives for people to move and
live here.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So for so from my perspective as someone who hasn't
sort of studied the different generations, I I my, you know,
non economic mind. I look at it and say.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
Hey, I'm not an economist either.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
My gosh, the cost ye I'm going to talk to
like normal to normal people listening, but my gosh, the
cost of living is so high that I can't imagine.
Like I know, I remember my parents, who were baby bimmers,
talking about their first house that they bought in Fairfax, Virginia,
(09:17):
where I was born, and their first house was something
like twenty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
I mean that's insane. I mean, even adjusted for inflation.
That's you're not you're not talking like you're talking like
one hundred and twenty hundred and thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think, yeah, but the interestry the mortgage rates that
they paid were like thirteen percent, fourteen percent, maybe fifteen percent,
I mean it was, it was in the teens.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
And so I mean those are just incredibly high.
Speaker 3 (09:46):
And then I know when we moved to Florida, I
know exactly what they paid for the house. It was
a four bedroom, two bath house with a pool, Uni
typical Florida home. But it was in nineteen seventy eight.
They paid eighty thousand dollars for the house. In nineteen
nineties late nineties they sold it for double So think
(10:09):
about the increase today.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Less than twenty years, they made double their money on that.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
House, right, But people are making double their money on
have been making double their money on houses, you know
since well in the last six, seven, eight years.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
That's that's the expectation.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well, and I think that that speaks to a big shift.
I think people don't really if you go back to
when your parents were first buying a house in nineteen
sixties early nineteen seventies, that time period, we didn't think
of housing as a real estate as a like, as
an appreciating asset so much as just the place that
(10:48):
you lived and if you had more. You know, it's
like having a car, right, if you had the money,
you could buy a fancier car or you but if
you didn't, you bought you know, the lower end models
that you that would get you from point A to
point B. That's still how we think about cars. It's
just a mode of transportation. It's flashier. If you're rich
with housing, it became from the place that you lived
(11:10):
to now I'm this is like a investment in the
future that I can then sell for three two, three
four times its value down the road to somebody who
just needs a place to live. And when you I
think the real problem especially is that when you started
(11:30):
turning starter homes and condos things that where people got
their foot in the door to start building, you know,
stability in their lives. When you started shifting that from
a this is where you live to this is how
you this is how you make wealth, that shift changed
the way that we thought thought about housing and thought
(11:51):
and it is a big, I think driver for why
we now have this massive wealth divide between older generations
and younger generations.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Well, I was going to ask you, you know our
younger workers earning less than the previous generations, or we
just have so much inflation because what you just said
about housing and the inflation on houses, to me, it
sounds like it's inflation.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
That's that's our issue.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Okay. I mean inflation has certainly contributed to it, and
I won't. I mean, the value of a house in
nineteen seventy adjusted for inflation is not the same as
it was that today, you know, as it's just you're right,
that is absolutely consideration, but it's not the only one.
And the real estate market has very rapidly outpaced the
(12:40):
rate of inflation over the last fifties years or so.
So you mentioned your parents house in Florida, that they
doubled their money in ten twelve years or whatever it was.
I mean that outpaced inflation by a significant amount. I mean,
my parents bought their house in the country in Virginia
for three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in two
thousand and five. That house today is worth about seven
(13:02):
hundred but it was.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
About it was almost it was like between fifteen and
twenty years before they sold it to double their money.
In the last ten years, we're seeing people double their money,
triple their money. Qut gooble their money on homes in
under five years sometimes right, Most.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Of the appreciation my parents' house has occurred in the
last five six years. There you go in two thousand,
I think in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, their house was
like worth like an extra thirty forty thousand for what
they bought it, and now it's so much more. That's
and that's that's an unsustainable that's so unsustainable because you know,
(13:44):
this is why I think that the right in conservatives
broadly speaking, need to kind of wake up to this
issue that wealth gaps are what drive revolutionary movements. And
when you think when you think you're doing everything right
and you're putting, you're doing all the decision you know,
(14:05):
you're going to college if that's or you're learning a trade,
you're getting yourself a stable job and saying, Okay, now
I'm going to get married and I have kids and
I'm going to provide for them. And then you all
of a sudden, you know you can't afford a place
to live, and you can't afford to put groceries to
buy groceries because you start having to make decisions between
groceries and school, and you know, and that sort of thing.
(14:26):
Those are all create a sense of anxiety and anger
that I think is really what has defined the political
the political movements of the last ten years.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
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you and your small business. Well, and I think when
you say conservatives need to wake up to this, I
agree because I agree there's a problem. You know, when
you look back at the student loan bailout that the
(16:12):
Biden administration wanted you know to move forward with and
did with their workarounds, even in spite of what the
Supreme Court came back and said.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
When you looked at polling on that, it was well.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Over sixty percent of Americans agreed with assisting, if not
bailing out these people carrying these loans because they can't
begin their life, they can't come with their life. Now,
did I agree with helping these students who were carrying
these loans for ten twenty thirty years and getting nowhere
(16:46):
and paying them down. Yes, I just disagreed with how
they're approaching it because I don't think that they were
dealing with the root cause of the problem. So if
you deal with the root cause of the problem and
then you give them assistance, I would have been okay,
hay with it in that order. But I didn't agree
with just because it didn't solve the problem of what
the colleges are and you were still.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Going to have you're still going to have. You know,
everyone who's still going to college is still going to
take on absurd amounts of debt and be weighed down
by that for twenty thirty years going.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Forward, or have expectations of more bailouts like we were
never going to be done with the bailout because the
universities were going to say, kaching, Thank god. Exactly, we
can keep raising tuition and keep hiring you know, administrators,
we can keep building taj malls and no one's going.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
To stop us. And the government's going to bail these
kids out. So it's awesome.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But you speak to some but it being you said
the sixty percent, you know, pull people supported it to some,
you know some you know, that issue right there, I
think speaks to the fact that people recognize that the
way that people are starting their lives today, young people
(17:56):
are starting their lives today after they've you know, they
got their four year degree and ready to you know,
enter the workforce is so vastly different than what it
was even twenty years ago. And where you know, I
did when I was on the education beat, I did
a I did a piece like comparing how like the
(18:17):
average amount of student debt and the average tuition had
been had grown over the last thirty years. And I mean,
it's it's astounding. Even in the early two thousands, where
it had already gone up a substantial amount, it was,
it's still it's even more absurdly high today.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Yeah. I mean, look, I've made decisions, and my family
made decisions. My parents was to stay in state. I mean,
do things as inexpensively as possible. Because my parents said
to me, the greatest gift I could give you is
to help you graduate debt free. And so I told
my children the same thing. The greatest gift I can
(18:56):
give you is to help you graduate debt free.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
But I can't do it. If you're going to go
out to state.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
To a school that is thirty forty fifty thousand dollars
a year, It's like it's not even going to happen.
Florida is unique in that we do have good, a
very good university system, and it's very affordable here to
go to college. It's it is the living expenses, going
back to your housing issue, but the living expenses that
(19:24):
are so expensive.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
And putting going to college.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
So my kids understand now, especially the one that just
got married and bought and bought her first house and
everything like that, understands that the mortgage person was like,
oh my gosh, you're like nearly debt free. You know,
actually she was a debt free and then you have
a car payment at that point when they when she
was going through the mortgage process, no student loans, and
(19:52):
she just the mortgage person said, she just doesn't see
that in young people today. And so that is the
moment that my twenty at the time, she was twenty
three to twenty four years old.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Buying her first house.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
I don't think that's happening for twenty three and twenty
four year olds right now.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
It's very, very rare, and it largely depends on where
you live.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
Yeah, well, yes, for sure.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
I mean I went to a small Catholic school in
eastern Ohio and Steubenville, which was at one point a
major steel in a steal and coal, you know, in
the industrial town, and today is completely dilapidated and it's
hollowed out. And the main economic engine of that town
(20:37):
is the university at this point and the healthcare system,
because that's always the case. But one of the things
that I've seen, you know, people that I graduated college with,
they go back to they go back there looking for
community and you know, trying to get jobs at the
university or something because they can afford to buy a
house there for seventy eighty thousand dollars. But then you
(20:59):
look at the house and it's you know, it was
built in probably nineteen twenty, and it's in horrific disrepair.
So you end up spending another forty fifty thousand dollars
to just get it livable. And but you have to
live in this, and you know, and you're all you're
doing is counting on getting a job at this one
made one economic you know, driver in this in the community,
(21:22):
whereas the people who had you know, roots in that
town for generations, they've all left if they could, or
they're trapped in their house because they can't leave because
they can't afford to sell it.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
Well, I think, I think so that's a point that
I think I haven't examined as closely. I mean I
loosely knew it because we have a small business owner,
a manufacturer who's in western Pennsylvania rural area actually summer set,
Pennsylvania right now where the nine to eleven plane went down,
(21:53):
not too far from where his facility is. It's a
small town. He's he employs about a hunt hundred and
fifty to two hundred people at any time, from janitors
to chemical engineers. So there's a lot of jobs available
at different levels and he saw the youth leaving the
(22:16):
town because there was no economic driver there. And one
of the things that say like the Tax Cuts and
Jobs Act did for him was it allowed him to
expand his facility to hire more people, pay higher wages.
And one of the biggest things that he always focuses
on about what the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act did
was it allowed him to offer, for the first time
(22:39):
in the fifteen years that he'd had the company ten
fifteen years, to offer a four toh one k. So
now you're talking careers all the way to retirement because
they can actually put money away. He can match all
of those things. And he said, the reason why that
was so important was because the youth was leaving the
(23:00):
town and I needed to take responsibility as an employer
to become an economic engine and create that. And so
now not just because of him, but other employers were,
but he's considered large. So all of those factors that
you're talking about are so important. And so when you
look at government policy, tasks and Jobs.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
Act was a great incubator for doing that.
Speaker 3 (23:26):
And if we could see more things like that happen
again western rural Pennsylvania. And he's created an economy that
can keep a talent alive.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And I think, I think when people often in business,
and this is I think one of the reasons why
there's such an animosity towards large corporations and Wall Street
is that those large corporations and Wall Street don't often
feel as though they have a fiduciary and moral duty
to the communities where they establish their business operations.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
You know.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think the quint essential example of it is Boeing,
which has been through some really bad series of public
very and tragic events over the last decade. But their
headquarters was in Seattle. It was in the same building
where they built all their seven forty sevens for decades,
(24:27):
and then in the late nineties they moved it to Chicago,
but kept the plant in Seattle, and then they moved
it again to Washington, d c. And to me, that
kind of it exemplified like you've just divorced the people
who work for the company from the people who run
the company, and they don't feel there's no longer a
(24:48):
sense of duty to from one to the other anymore,
and you end up with things like bad quality products
that end up in the loss of lives, and you
end up in a situation where the companies willing to
cut jobs that are necessary in order to maintain those
high standards of quality, because all they're looking at is
the bottom line. They're not looking at the way that
(25:09):
people are approaching the jobs and what that those jobs
mean for the community and for the product that you're creating.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
So it's it's just it's such an easier message for
the left and Democrats in general, who and especially the
Democrats like in zoor On Mundami. You know he's running
on this whatever you want to call it, democratic socialist message,
but well.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
It's resentment politics, basically put.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
But it's an easy message because of what you've what
you've just laid out, and that conservatives are saying, well,
you know, you just have to work hard, and you
know the more the lower the taxes, the better you'll do.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
And what what what.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
Conservatives need to do is really take a moment and
look at stories like what I just told you, and
when you say the moral obligation that small business owners,
this particular small business owner took upon himself. He just manufacturer,
that's it. He's just a guy who makes chemical compounds.
And he looked around and said I'm not going to
(26:19):
have anybody to hire at my company.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I'm going to retire.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I might sell it, but there's going to be no
one left to work at my company that I have
built my whole life, my whole career, unless I figure
out how to create an economic engine. So it's not
that conservatives don't have the policies or the ideas. I
don't think we're educating Americans and other entrepreneurs about how
(26:48):
the domino effect that can occur with the right policies
and with the small business owners across the country bringing
back manufacturing and creating these economic centers.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
I think Trump was the only person in my lifetime
to really on a national scale to talk about it
in that way. He because he you know, he when
did he go He went to he went to Detroit
and said, they stole your jobs and we're going to
bring them back. I mean that, you know, and you know,
the old guard of the Republican Party kind of lost
(27:20):
their minds because they were like, well, you know, we
want cheap things like that's you know, if you bring
them back, it's going to be more expensive. But that
I think ignores the value of the job itself, because
it's not we don't look at you know. Scott Best
said earlier this year that the essence of the American
dream is not cheap goods. And I thought that was
such a great quote because it is true. We don't
(27:42):
look at our quality of life based on how cheap
it is to buy, you know, the latest television set
or a smartphone, or even groceries for that matter, which
just kept getting more keep getting more expensive on you know,
but that's not what meant our quality of life measured
by It's like, it's do we have a job, do
we have stability in our lives? And can we provide
(28:04):
for our families? And that's I think, you know, we
can forego cheap TVs and you know, streaming services and
all this other stuff that have been major growth booms
in the economy. If we can go, if we can
still have the jobs that made our community strong.
Speaker 4 (28:26):
Is a policy, I mean, like, I think, what.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Are some policies that can that can help, you know,
I think, but you know, there's also I think been
a bit of a mindset shift among professional classes in general,
you know, whether it's those who work in corporate in
large corporations and and or even in business and in
(28:52):
business in general, or even in the government that you know,
the companies are there to make money and create shareholder value,
and I think it's there's an ignorance about the responsibilities
that they have in turn to their communities. And you know,
one of the things that conservatives like to do when
they talk about the free market is that any sort
(29:14):
of criticism of corporations is like, is effectively socialism. And
I think that's a mistake. And I think that that's
one thing that people that you know, there was a
who was cheering the trade deals that moved all those
jobs to China and Mexico. The corporations were even though
they were enabled by the company by the government, and
(29:37):
the government was the one that created the avenues for
them to do that. And I think that's a that's
you know, that's an important part that needs to be
considered in all this that being said Zoron Mamdani, Bernie Sanders,
And you know, when they talk about these things, they're
looking they they're tapping into an anger and then presenting
a vision of a solution that will all result in
(30:01):
more problems.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
But what's what's the but what is the saying in
the absence of a plan.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
My plan is the best plan.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Well right exactly, you know, and and Trump is the
Trump's the only person who's even tried to propose a
decent plan in response among prominent people in the Republican
Party and on the right, because he said, Okay, we're
going to start putting tariffs on foreign goods, so that
which is going to make it more expensive to make
(30:29):
them over there. You know, hopefully it'll make you know,
lead to enhanced production here. You know, it's going to
take years to see if that actually bears out. You know,
we're only in eight months of this administration. But it
was a plan that people could identify with. And I
think that that's you know, that what you just said
(30:51):
really really matters, because if I look at the system,
I'm a young person, you know, I think, you know,
I work in politics. I think a lot about this,
a lot more than most people do. But if I'm
an average person who says, okay, I've seen, you know,
as I was growing up, I've seen the quality of
life in my town decline. And now that I'm old
(31:13):
enough to have a job, I can't find one, even
though I went, even though I've like tried to do
everything right. And I hear politicians talking large platitudes about
all this, you know, about these things, and they keep
going back to Washington for you know, two and six years,
and then they come back here and say the same thing,
and they nothing changes. I'm just going to look, I'm
(31:35):
just going to vote for the guy who vote who
promises to destroy the whole thing. And and Trump it
was that for you know, in the presidential election. And
I in New York City, where cost of living is
like five thousand dollars a month for a studio apartment.
That's or Mamdani. You know, we can we can criticize
him for his insane ideas like government run grocery stores
(31:59):
and whatever else he's got planned, and you know, high
taxes on the rich that are just going to leave town.
But he's speaking, he's presenting, he's presenting a solution and
no one else's and so he's vowing to break the system.
So we're just going to vote for that guy, because
there's even though I think some of these people might
(32:21):
not even be socialists, they're just going to vote for
the socialists because there's no one else to vote for.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Well, so I think it's not just policy, because I
do think that policies that have come out of the
Trump administration, I think there are really good ideas on
the conservative side, I think that they don't go far enough.
And you're right, Trump's probably come the closest to connecting the.
Speaker 4 (32:45):
Dots that you are have uncovered.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
And yes, you think about it more than most people
because probably because your age group, but also you're living it.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
And then you also see the politics.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
Up front, So for you, you can connect all those dots.
I think telling the stories of these small business owners,
and I do think it's small business owners. I'm certainly
not an apologist for cor big corporations. I mean I've
gone toe to toe with policies that helped corporations, big
(33:20):
corporations in spite of who are you know who founded us?
Speaker 4 (33:25):
You know, found a job creator network because you know, Bernie.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
Marcus always said the corporations will take care of themselves.
You know, even his what he was always worried about
was the small business owners because of the disproportion impact
of these policies on small businesses. But if we were
able to get these stories out, and I'm happy to
introduce you to some of these small business owners who
can say this policy caused me to make these decisions,
(33:51):
what's resulted in these consequences and help benefited not just
my company, not just my employees, but my community in
these ways. I think that getting those stories out, which
is what I try to do, is one of the
best ways to help educate Americans, and so one it
would maybe help conservatives and Republicans understand how to message
(34:15):
their policies better, which I think is again I think
Trump's probably the only person and the best person who's
done that, although closely followed by Scott Bessens.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
I think he's amazing too.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
But Democrats always seem to be able to message what
their what their policies are in such a stronger way
that connects to people's hearts. And that has been why
somebody like a Mandami is able to.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Do so well.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
And granted you think, oh, well, it's New York City.
Of course he's going to do well, you know, in
a in a city like that, But I don't think
so that's like the that's the free market capital.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
Of the world.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Yeah, well, I think one of the reasons I think
you you, I think you're you made a really good
point there that these stories, especially about how Democrats and
Republicans don't do a very good or Republicans don't do
a good job of connecting what they've been doing to
the lives of individual people and business owners, whereas Democrats
(35:17):
are always eager to show the you know, look at
this poor woman, you know, a single mother with four
kids who's not going to be able to go to
the doctor anymore because of Republican Medicaid cuts, which usually
isn't even true anyway, what they're what they're make they
give a human face to a to what to the
message that they're trying to convey. Republicans actually do this
(35:40):
really well on immigration.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
It's theater. It is theater for Democrats.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
They have a script, they have actors, they have a stage,
and they have a platform with the media to carry
their message, to.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Carry their I mean it's true, but you know, you know,
it doesn't mean that Republicans can't do it too. I mean,
Trump did a really good job I think in promoting
you know, the you know, showcasing the people who are
affected by the lawless border policies of the Biden administration
throughout his campaign and even since then, or and now
(36:19):
even what he's doing with the crime in Washington, DC.
You could do that with with the economics of you know,
of the economic policies that he's trying to do, and
showing how small businesses and you know, not the big
corporations that everyone likes to vilify, but how dad, how
(36:41):
the day to day you know, businesses that we love
are affected by what happens in Washington, and how what
the Trumpet, what what the Trump administration is doing is
helping them, And those are the kinds of things that
can counter people like Mom, Donnie. But you know, the
other thing you're dealing with is that New York City
is a captive electorate in a certain sense.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
So you know, Andrew Cuomo is not the answer there
because he can't really articulate a reason for why he's running.
You know, I'm not he's going to win because he's
not running against anyone who's offering a competing vision other
than the status quo.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Right, Yeah, Yeah, Well, I could talk to you for
probably two more hours, and I know when we met
last year at Starbucks, we spent probably two hours talking
about college.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
I think I told you that that that Trump was
going to win the popular vote, and you were very
shocked that I said that, but yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Only because Republicans never win the popular vote. But he
continues to defy the odds in every way, and I
think he's I think his policies have been great for
the country and for everyday ordinary Americans, which we haven't
seen that in a long time. I worry about beyond
(37:58):
Trump and who can carry the message and and bring
those messages to two cities like Detroit that are just
so simple. They took your jobs, and I'm here to
bring them back. I mean, yeah, it's so easy. Well,
I'd love to have you back because I think there's
there's a lot bit of cover, but we're out of
time today. Tell everyone how they can follow you and
(38:20):
your writings at the Washington Examiner.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Well, first, you can always check the Washington Examiner website
and you know, subscribe. We've also I'm also on x
at JJ Underscore Poffs, so I usually post my pieces
on there. But yeah, both of those are good ways
that We also have a lot of great content at
the Washington Examiner too, so I'm not the only word
person that writes there.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
Definitely, and definitely not great content at the Washington Examiner
for sure. Well, Jeremiah, thanks so much for joining us
today on main Street Matters, America's small business megaphone, and
thank you all for taking the time to tune in.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Main Street Matters is.
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Part of the Salem Podcast Network. New episode's debut every
Wednesday and Friday. You can subscribe to the show wherever
you get your podcasts from, and we'll be back soon
with another episode.
Speaker 4 (39:05):
Bye for now.
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