Mailbag #8: I will not become food for monsters

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike Rugnetta (00:06):
Friends, hello and welcome to the Never Post
Mailbag episode four rainyseason 2025 in which we respond
to listener emails, comments,voicemails, and voice messages
about our segments. Folks, youknow it because I've said it
before, but I'm gonna say itagain. We love to hear from you.
It's why we do the show. Pleasedo get in touch and tell us your

(00:27):
thoughts on our segments.
All of the ways that you can geta hold of us are in the show
notes. Drop us a line. And ifyou don't, Georgia is gonna cry.

Georgia (00:34):
I am. I'm crying right now.

I've seen it
happen. She cries.

Georgia (00:39):
He said it was

I'm your host, Mark McNetta. Joining me today
in order of their spicy foodtolerance, I assume. Woah.
Ascending Hans Buto, n p s p.

Hans Buetow (00:51):
Yeah. I think that's right. I think that's
right.

Georgia (00:53):
I'm the

old man of the group. So I got I got that
heartburn coming in the night.

I didn't I didn't wanna lean really hard into the
Midwest The Midwest. But

As long as there's also lots of mayonnaise in
there, I would be like, hey.God. No. Hans. No.
Take it back. My god.

Next in line, Jason Oberholzer, NPEP.

Jason Oberholtzer (01:16):
Yeah. I'm probably somewhere in the middle
here. I'm looking at Georgia andI'm trying to figure out which
side of the line we're gonna beon. I can do it. I don't always
seek it out.
So that's where in the middle Iam.

Georgia, and then next in line, Georgia Hampton,
NP, p.

Georgia (01:34):
I'm honored to have this position in this order. I
do like spicy food. Spicy fooddoesn't really like me. Oh. So I
do really enjoy it and I havefun eating it.

What's your favorite spicy dish that you
wish you could have more thatyou don't?

Georgia (01:52):
Oh, god. I mean, a lot of like Indian dishes. It's

worth the pain.

It is. When it's spicy and tasty, you just

can't you can't do any better than that. Georgia,
would you do hot ones?

Georgia (02:04):
Absolutely not. Okay. No. I hate that, but that's for
different reasons. I hate foodchallenges.
Don't

like big interviews. That's too bad
because, like, because I sawSean

at the Webby's and I

was like, Sean, Georgia would Georgia would be
on it. Listen.

Georgia (02:16):
I locked eyes with Sean at the Webby's, and I felt we
had a cosmic connection. SoSean, get at me. Would love to
talk

to you. As long

as it doesn't involve anything spicy, we're
good.

Georgia (02:25):
No. No. No. It's my I just I I hate food challenges. I
hate them.
I don't like it. They kinda yuckme out. So I wouldn't I get it.
Do it.

Yeah. Hey, guys. Mailbag. Look at us.

Georgia (02:37):
Wow. I

think we're mailing it. I think I did it.

I did

a good job.

Georgia (02:45):
Mike got

the call.

So you

did it? See you on the other side.

Alright. Let's mailbag. up, in response to a
previous mailbag, and I wouldjust like to aside here for one
moment to formally acknowledgesomething that Jason has pointed
out, which is that we get themost listener mail in response
to or I shouldn't say inresponse to, I should say

(03:11):
immediately following mailbags.Yeah. It's great.
Yeah. So even though you arewriting in and talking to us
about segments, we get most ofthis communication immediately
following the publish of amailbag. So I just wanna say,
that's great. Keep doing that.

That's rad.

But you don't have to wait. You can reach out
anytime you have a thought.Okay. So Hern Sushi wrote in
after the previous mailbag andsaid, I just listened to the
latest mailbag, and I wanted tosay, fuck yes, RSS. Now I'll
pause here and say, fuck yes,RSS.

RSS. We did Yes. RSS.

I am also still using a beautiful turquoise iPod
mini and a Tungara gay openhardware iPod. Oh, yes. To
listen to podcasts and musicfrom Bandcamp. There are dozens
of us. Dozens.
And I just wanted to acknowledgeor maybe not acknowledge, but to
request. I wanna know about allof the weird, like, open

(04:09):
hardware RSS gadgets.

Yes. Definitely.

Because like, this rules.

Yeah. This is awesome. And I'm glad that we
are slowly inculcating everyoneinto the RSS feed life. Okay.

Next up, on the subject of platforms and hentai,
Gabriel wrote in and said this,I've recently seen a chart on
how ChatGPT is gobbling up thetraffic from the biggest
websites. I didn't verify it,but it seems right to me.
ChatGPT doesn't really feel likethe Internet to me. It's more
like a tool that just happens touse the Internet, But I already
had trouble thinking of some ofthe other sites as Internet

(04:45):
websites, Facebook, Instagram,TikTok, Reddit, etcetera, are
more like apps to me. I thinkthat the Internet shouldn't be
apps, but I guess I'm just oldschool.
For me, the Internet is awebsite that I access in a
browser on my PC laptop on mydesk. Shout out to Mike who has
to sit down with his laptop towrite important emails. Still
true. It seems like increasinglyhow people use the Internet is

(05:07):
through apps on phones, and itjust makes me wonder, what is
the Internet? Am I just a boomerwho is used to browsing actual
websites like forums and blogs,and I should consider everything
that needs an Internetconnection to function?
Is any app that I have on myphone the Internet? Podcasts,
chat GPT, console games,torrenting. What else is the
Internet that I didn't consider?Bonus question. When I'm at work

(05:29):
and I open an app on my phone toturn on the AC and the lights at
home, which are all connected tomy Wi Fi, is that the Internet?
When my printer refuses to printbecause I stopped paying a
subscription, is that theInternet? When I have to wait
for ten minutes before I canstart my car because of a
software update, is that theInternet? Gabriel? Gabriel. I
think those things are theInternet.

Georgia (05:47):
I think it's all the Internet. It's all the Internet.
But like derogatorial.

Yeah. Yeah. Internet open parentheses not
complimentary. Yeah. Internetparentheses threat.
I mean, this reminds me of thethere was discussion that
happened many many years agowhere it was like, what's the
Internet versus the World WideWeb? Yeah. Like, back when this
was like, you know, we werestill sort of figuring out what

(06:14):
this delimiter was. It was likeyou would go on Usenet, right,
would be the Internet, but likewww.yahoo.com was the World Wide
Web. That was the and like, areall of these things the
information superhighway?

Georgia (06:30):
Oh, boy.

Getting to your question, the immediate thing
that I thought was like, yeah,all the things that need an
Internet connection to functionare the Internet, including like
the Internet of Things. And thenyou call out the Internet of
Things, which yeah. I think it'slike the global network of
machines, even if they're yourrefrigerator, it's all the
Internet.

Yeah. I agree.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a good decade there,
where like the Internet ofThings was always looming in the
think pieces as coming andarriving and life changing. And
it turns out it just like kindof came and arrived and became
everything and nothing reallyfeels any different.

And now my air conditioner is connected to the
Internet and it's got a timer onit that I can change via an app
on my phone to time when itturns on and off, but it doesn't
it doesn't ever apply. Like nomatter how many times I do it in
the app, the actual appliancenever behaves any differently.
And that feels like theInternet. You know I mean? Like,
that feels thematically right.

Georgia (07:25):
But I do think there's sort of different designations
worth being made here of theInternet of things, the social
Internet.

Right.

Georgia (07:35):
I mean, it's all the Internet, but the app Instagram
on my phone feels like adifferent Internet than the app
on my phone I use to change thecolor of the light bulbs in my
light fixtures.

But I think it's like, this is where this like
the psychogeographic metaphorsare useful.

You know, like

Like it does.

Pittsburgh and Palm Springs are both The United
States, but they're very verydifferent places. I think, you
know, the Internet feelssimilarly sometimes.

Georgia (08:02):
Definitely. Well, I think this dovetails very nicely
into some messages we got aroundmy segment around tactility and
buttons and smartphones. And wegot this message from Alec that
says, hi, Neverpost. I finishedGeorgia's segment on tactility
and smartphones with a thickyellow electrical wire in my

(08:24):
hands. I was steadily coiling itin wide circles around a vacuum,
finishing my nightly janitorwork at Seattle based tech mega
corp and wondering why Icouldn't relate to this lack of
touch, this void that needed tobe filled.
The answer came almostimmediately. Rubbery plastic

(08:45):
wire running through my fingers,threatening to burn them through
the friction of its passing.Touch is a major sense in my
line of work, only to sight. Ican feel the coffee stain on
your desk as well as I can seeit. And more importantly, I can
feel when I've wiped it away.
Touching a sticky mess is notsatisfying, but what I like

(09:07):
about my job is the act ofreaching out and changing the
world around me bit by tiny bit.With each bag of trash, each
stroke of the toilet brush, notonly do I know I am doing
something impactful, but my bodyknows it too. When I spend too
long on my phone, some part ofmyself feels adrift in the sea

(09:27):
of content, floating further andfurther away from the pile of
meat and bones lying in my bed.I think the need for tactile
experiences is very high, bothas a way for our minds to stay
grounded within our bodies, andas a way for our bodies to get
the feedback that they have apurpose. That they are not just
for ferrying a brain and a thumbaround to look at the next

(09:49):
screen.
That's a very long way of sayingthat I love buttons, and I think
they're fun to press. Thanks forthe thought provoking episode as
always.

Yeah. of all.

Fucking shouts to Alex.

That was great.

Georgia (10:02):
Beautifully beautifully written.

Yes.

Georgia (10:05):
And I mean, I completely agree with you. I
think what you're describingwhen you start feeling adrift
from your actual physical bodyis something I struggle with
constantly because I am onlineso much, because I'm interfacing
with screens so much more thanI'm doing something, I would
say, like intentional with mybody, with my hands, with my

(10:26):
physical self.

This reminds me of when I used to work in
restaurants a lot. And my wife,who was then my girlfriend, we
were just starting to date,worked in an office, and she
would say, sometimes I reallylike doing dishes, and I would
say, no. And she would say, allof my projects are long term
projects that never have anyresolution, but when I do a
dish, I wash it, I put it down,I dry it, and it's done. And

(10:53):
it's like that same sort ofimpulse of, ugh, I think I can
touch rather than the thing thatswirls around me, I think is a
is a strong inclination.

Georgia (11:00):
This is something I think about a lot with jobs I've
had in the past. When I was anundergrad, I was the lab
assistant in a dark room formultiple years and was
responsible for mixing thechemistry together that was used
in the black and white darkroom.And even I mean, the act of
printing a photograph in adarkroom is so physical. You

(11:21):
specifically cannot have a phoneout because it will destroy your
paper. Even I was a barista whenI moved to Chicago, and the the
experience of that job is sophysical and so physical in a
way that kind of negates thepossibility of using screens,
which is something I findexponentially more helpful for

(11:41):
me when it's like, no, actually,you can't.

Mhmm. I think part of what feels good when I
spend like a weekend makingmusic with the fellows that I
record with is that I cannottouch my phone because my hands
are busy. Like Mhmm. They're oninstruments. I cannot use it.
And that is very satisfying. Theother thing that's made me think
of sort of like in a psychospatial sense, if not psycho

(12:04):
geographic, is that when Istarted doing podcasts after
being a writer for a while,podcasting felt more spatial and
tactile to me in a way that'ssort of like reminiscent of the
way Hans, your wife was sayingthat like dishes is a job you
can finish. Like podcast is ajob you can finish because
there's so much raw material andyou move it around and you drag
it and you cut it. You do allthese things that like writing

(12:27):
is just the moving of ideasaround and they could be
anything. Like podcast hasmaterial.
There's actually materiality toit. So I felt more grounded
doing also just stare at myscreen digital work because it
was a different kind of stare atmy screen digital ideal work.

That's interesting.

Georgia (12:44):
Yeah. Mean, sort of materialize writing

Right.

Georgia (12:47):
Into clips that you have to move around, that you
cut, that you place, that youorganize. Yeah. There's
something to that that makes itfeel much more Yeah. I mean,
tactile

Yeah.

Georgia (12:58):
In a way.

Much more satisfying.

Georgia (13:01):
So we actually got a lot of messages around mods and
add ons that you can attach toyour devices to make them feel
more tactile and have moresensation to them. And one in
particular that I wanted tobring here is an audio clip from
Tim.

Tim (13:18):
As a motion graphic artist, I do a lot of your digital
illustrations so that I can getinto my animation software of
choice faster. And within thelast few years, swapped to
Procreate on the iPad for thatspecifically because of how
powerful the Apple Pencil isversus, you know, using your
finger or just being on a Wacomwhich doesn't have a screen in
it, which was my go to for manyyears. And initially those touch

(13:39):
interface buttons where you'rezooming in and out with pinches
and touching four fingers atonce to do certain things felt
like magic and I really enjoyedthat experience. But then no
matter what I changed in thesettings, would always be
undoing by accident with thepalm registration turned off and
it was infuriating that allthese touch commands actually
became a hindrance to my processand after a bit of googling
found out that there's a largecontingent of the illustration

(14:00):
community that uses a partycontroller called the eight Bit
Do because you can map differentkey shortcuts to each button. So
there are like number pads,bluetooth number pads that you
can buy from Amazon but they'repre programmed and I didn't like
the bulkiness of it and thistiny little controller just
seems so much more appealing tome so I got one recently, mapped

(14:20):
all of the keyboard shortcutsand Procreate to it and
honestly, like my illustrationprocess is so much better for it
because you still need to, youknow, pinch the zoom, that's
still natural part of it, butbeing able to like press buttons
to swap the brushes, swap thecolors, really enhance the
drawing process for mespecifically, and it was such an
interesting thing because thiseight bit do is like completely
programmable.
It's something that was made forgaming and now is becoming a way

(14:42):
to act activity back to otherprocesses on the device. And me,
I'm going, you can add differentprofiles to this thing. What
else can I actually add keyboardshortcuts to to improve my
experience with the touchscreeninterface? And it's like, can I
use this to start driving musicwhen I'm listening in the next
room or something? Like, it'sactually opened a lot of
opportunities that I just wannastart experimenting with after
it enhanced my illustrationexperience so much.

Georgia (15:03):
I think this is so interesting, specifically
because the world of digitalillustration is one where
tactility is so at the forefrontof the conversation. I mean, the
mention of, like, Wacom tablets,the the texture of the screen
that you're using is oftensomething that people will like
modify. So you can find tabletsor even almost like films that

(15:28):
you can put over tablets thatmake it feel more like you are
drawing on paper, even if you'renot.

I believe that.

That's cool. Mike, you're a big route your
own keypads macros sort of guy,aren't you?

Yeah. I was gonna say, I relate to this really
hard because I spent probablyabout a full year, maybe like
three or four years ago, tryingto figure out what the most
efficient way for me to editaudio and sound design is. And
like, it turns out, yeah, thatit's like it really is like

(16:02):
having one hand that is thetool's hand. So, you know,
that's like on the trackballmouse. And then the other hand
is just is switching tools.
So I just have a bank of buttonsand a few knobs that switch
between what the tools are, andit's just like I remember when I
got it set up and I starteddoing it, I was like, oh, shit.

(16:24):
Okay. Yeah. Like, this is sortof how you're supposed to do
this. And it really it drovehome for me this idea that it's
like, there is no knowing thingswithout the body.
That, like, the body is justreally so intimately involved in
knowledge. And, like, not just,like, getting the work done, but

(16:46):
in, like, knowing what to donext and feeling what the next
step in your process is andknowing the solutions to
problems and, like, buildingyour skills. It's all just so
embodied, and so much oftechnology just throws all that
out the window.

Georgia (17:02):
It says, like Yeah.

Flat nothing, touching nothing, all chick lit
Feeling nothing.

Smooth. And also, like, freeze cognitive
load because, like, when you arejust interacting with an
interface with, like, a mouse ora touch pad or only that, like,
you are making cognitive levelthey give to think through, oh,
I'm switching to the faders forthis and then it's going down by
however many d b's I can pullrather than, like, left hand
turns knob down. Like, loud knobgo down.

Yeah. And that knob does and like the important

thing And that's the only thing that knob
does.

That knob does. Make it go down.

Yeah. And so your body can just be like, go
down. Yeah. And you can focus onthinking about like creative
ideas or the other thing you'resupposed to be thinking about
rather than like, okay. So submenu three.

Yeah. Exactly. So I think I got to this point
because I was like, know,production and stuff and like
worked in recording studios, andI was like, a mixing desk is
stupid. It is like an ancientpiece of technology that does
not represent the way that Iwork or the way that I wanna
work. However, it is a thingthat has one not like, each

(18:05):
thing that's on it has afunction and that's important.
And so, yeah, like recapturingthat is is great.

Georgia (18:11):
I think also in the opposite way, that's what drives
me so nuts about, you know, yourprinter having an app and the
idea of having to wait for yourcard at work because there's a
software update. Like, youconceptualize everything and
separate it from the physicalthat much, it's too much. It's

(18:35):
too I I I long for a return toone button do one thing.

Yeah. Your printer is never gonna work, but
at least it's not working in aone to one relationship with
you.

Georgia (18:47):
Yes. Exactly. Last thing on this is a message from
Tom.

Tom Lum (18:53):
Hey, Never Post Gro. It's Tom Lum. Miss you guys.
Regarding touchscreens fromepisode 32, Smooth Moves, I just
wanted to share a parable that Ialways think of when it comes to
bad touchscreen interfaces,especially touchscreens on
keyboards like the Apple TouchBar that I I despise. So at the

(19:14):
Museum of Pop Culture inSeattle, formerly the EMP
Museum, there is a small sillyvideo game called Tenya Wanya
Teens.
It was created by KeitaTakahashi, who was the director
of Katamari Damacy, one of thebest games ever made. And in
this game, Tenya Wanya Teens,you play a teenager going
through a speedrun of their day,but your controls are a grid of

(19:38):
16 colorful arcade buttons, witheach color corresponding to a
hyper specific action. Like redmight be brushing your teeth,
green might be playing guitar,and blue might be confessing
your love. These are all actualactions in the game, and there
are so many more. And as you arespeedrunning through your day as
a teenager, you have to do theright action at the right time.

(20:02):
The catch being that randomly,the colors of the buttons will
swap out from beneath them, soyou'll go to hit the button to
confess your love to your crush,but then it will have switched
to brushing your teeth, or youwill accidentally confess your
love in front of the wholeclass. It's a really great
playable metaphor for theawkwardness of being a teen,

(20:23):
that you don't feel quite incontrol of your body, or that
you feel like you're alwaysdoing the wrong thing at the
wrong time. But the thing is,that's exactly what a bad touch
interface is, but not onpurpose. Like, here it was used
as a pastiche and a joke, butlike, any touch interface that
changes when you're not lookingis a Tenya Wanya teen situation.

(20:46):
And of course it's even worse ina car.
So, of course, touch surfacescan be great, especially when
what you're looking at is whatyou're touching. But you have to
be careful, you're not literallycreating a teniawanya teen
situation. Anyway, congrats onthe Webby. I don't want to take
all the credit, but if we'rebeing honest, I think my intro
at the start of the episodereally did a lot of heavy

(21:07):
lifting in that episode, soyou're welcome for the Webby.
That was a joke.
God, that was sad.

I think I think we should chisel off a part of
the webby and send it to Yeah.

Georgia (21:18):
Break off

It's only fair, really.

Georgia (21:21):
So I have amazing news, which is that I looked up Tenya
Wanya Teens, and it's so cuteand amazing. Okay.

But I mean, what a great metaphor for like it's
yeah. So, you know

Georgia (21:32):
It's perfect.

Bad touchscreen interface is just recreating the
awkwardness of not knowing howto use your body as a teenager.

Yeah. It's perfect.

Georgia (21:40):
Confess your love. Confess your love. No.

No. I just wanna sign in. I'm just gonna send an
email.

Georgia (21:48):
You're just my printer. Next

up, we got an email in response to my segment
on charts and the turn of thecentury. This comes from Jack
who says that that reminded himof the way that being able to
graphically present research viachart, infographic, or diagram
almost always makes it resonatemore with an audience and or
client. This places hugepressure on researchers like

(22:15):
myself specializing inqualitative methods where the
aim is to understand differentexperiences, perspectives, and
values, not just count them.Reflecting on my work, I can't
help but link the trend forquantitative charts with the
trend for research methods thatpromise being able to quantify
qualitative data. In particular,the abundance of workshops and
public engagement methodscentered around the post it

(22:37):
note.
These are activities thatpromise to capture the breadth
and depth of human perspectivesinto neat digestible visualized
forms. He then references thebrilliant Shannon Mattern. And
goes on to say, it feels likethere's definitely a link
between the proliferation ofcharts as the go to research
output and the proliferation ofpost it note based methods as a
way of performing qualitativeresearch. Being able to point at

(23:00):
a pile of post it notes, groupthem, count them, visualize them
on a Miro board feels like anattempt of qualitative
researchers to condense theirwork into charts as a format. I
agree, Jack.
And I have been in a lot ofmeetings where we move a lot of
post it notes around becausesomebody came back in with a lot
of qualitative sociologicalresearch, and it's not real

(23:24):
until it is visualized, and thatis the post it note phenomenon.
There are anguished looks in thechat right now. I think everyone

just thinking of like, hey. You know,

I'm not looking at anyone in particular, by
which I mean none of none of ourclients that we all work on
shows for. But like

And love.

I think about this a

lot when people are like, you know, we're really
data driven here. So really, ourdecisions are very data driven.
And then and then theconversation turns to what does
the audience like?

You're like, I don't

we you know, it's hard to explain to people that
it's like so much of what youare using to make very big, and
in certain cases important, youknow, at least as far as
decisions related to media areimportant. Decisions are like
ciphers for things. You know,you're like slapping a mask on
top of something and then onlyever talking about the mask

(24:20):
Right. And not the thing that ison the other side of it. But
it's like, yeah, it's how somuch of this industry and how so
many people really just likeit's what they feel like is the
closer way to access the truth.
Yeah. The truth has numbersassociated with it, and that
just makes things complicated.

Yeah. And in other ways, it's just like a
continuation of this grandconflict between magic and
science that is sort of alwaysspooling out across time and
various methods.

Next up friend of the show, George Rohawk wrote in
about my segment on blocking,and George said, in the mailbag,
there was a brief discussionabout blocking folk that you
know directly slash personally,and muting was briefly
discussed. But I don't thinkmuting gets as much credit as it
deserves. I have so many peoplemuted. The mute is the unsung
hero of social media. I mean,this is hard to argue

Georgia (25:15):
with. I completely agree.

I'm a

Georgia (25:18):
huge fan of muting.

I I don't mute as much as I should. But like,
there's a reason that it, youknow, like, the days of IRC or
whatever, it was just the maintool. Right? Like, someone's
bothering you or someone iscausing trouble in a channel or
something, just mute them. Like,they'll you just don't see them
anymore, and, like, that's theend of it.

(25:43):
And I think, you know, we talkedabout this a little bit in the
segment that, you know, Carolinepointed out that sometimes a
mute isn't a solution when youdon't want someone to be in
possession of information aboutyour life in any way.

Right.

At least you wanna provide some friction to
them getting that information.And I think that's true. But,
yeah, like, 90% of the timeprobably, a mute goes a long
way. On Blue Sky, at least, whenwhen I get an irritating at
reply, I have started justmuting those people. It, like
Yeah.
It's like one and done. Like, Idon't I don't need this.

Georgia (26:14):
It's just a softer blow. Obviously, there's
different layers of thisbecause, yeah, if someone is
harassing you, if someone isusing access to, for example,
your Instagram profile, which ifyou muted someone, you're just
not seeing what they're posting,but they can still look at your
profile. They might not be ableto see your story, but they can
look at your photos that you'veposted. Like, if there's danger

(26:38):
or a problem with them even haveaxing having access to that,
muting is not gonna be enough.Yeah.
But I do appreciate it as kindof a a softer pushing away.

I actually I have started using it more like
Twitter for all the things thatwere wrong with it had a great
feature in the the soft block ofblocking someone and unblocking
them forced and unfollow. Thatdoesn't work on Blue Sky, and I
would often use that on Twitterfor someone who it like it
seemed like them following mecaused them distress. That like,

(27:16):
they would only ever

I'm replies for you.

When they were mad about something.

Yeah.

And like, all of their replies to me would just
be angry. And I'll be like,listen, I'm gonna do you a
favor, and I'm just gonna get meout of your timeline.

I'm just I'm just gonna get out of here.

Now, I just block those people on Blue Sky just,
you know, because I can'tunfollow them. I can't force
them to unfollow me. But peoplewho are just like sort of low
level irritating or who do theblue sky thing of like, well,
actually ing constantly. Yeah.That's a mute.

Like, those people get muted.

Georgia (27:48):
And that's fine. It's a gentle way of being like, hey.
Yeah.

Yeah. I just shut the fuck up.

But truly, as always, the only real virtuous
path is to get out of everyone'stimeline, and so never post.

Just don't do it. Yeah. With that, we're gonna
take a little break. Okay. Sojoining us is Kurt White.

(28:25):
Kurt, thanks for coming on.

Kurt White (28:27):
Kurt. Good to see you guys again.

Alright. Everybody may remember Kurt from
our segment about the Internetand the sense of self and using
technology to construct thesense of self. So, Kurt, thanks
for coming on for us to readsome listener communications to
you. Our one is from Paul fromSweden. Is this is was this
furnished in the email asgermane information, Jason?

This is how Paul would like to be described.

Okay. This is Paul from Sweden.

We honor that. Paul writes, I was just
listening to your latest mailbagepisode when a thought struck
me, and I had the idea to writethis message. As I was hearing
the questions and perspectivesof the listeners of the show, I
suddenly became aware of athought process that I've
maintained for most of my life.I realized the general apathy
that I had towards my opinions.Every time I heard something

(29:19):
that interested me or that Irelated to, I would get the
instinct to write it with my ownthoughts only to tell myself
that no one would listen beforeI could even finish the thought.
I've even noticed this in otherpeople my age with barrenous
chat rooms and overly vagueconversations. I wonder if the
Internet has anything to do withthis as the anonymous nature of

(29:39):
social media can make postingfeel like screaming into a
pillow. I wonder if it hasalways been like this, as I am
only 17 and have never known anInternet without social media.
What do you think? Has ourexpanded worldview led to the
views of ourselves shrinking?
I'm sure I'm not the person towrite about this, but at least

(29:59):
it feels good to get thisthought out of my head. Paul,
that does feel like a goodthought to get out of

your head. Mhmm.

Kurt White (30:06):
That's wonderful. I I would have I was pegging Paul
as a fellow Gen Xer here. Yeah,same. That was the most
impassioned defense of apathyI've heard in a while. I felt
myself relaxing into it.
But then I also thought, youknow, it's a feeling I can
remember when I was 17,interestingly enough, where I
think you're sort of confrontedat that time of life with the

(30:29):
sort of all the thoughts in yourhead and the sort of world that
seems much larger than itactually is in some ways. And I
think it can feel overwhelmingand stifling. I think that's a
sort of creativity problem,actually. I think it's something
that has to be kind of born withcommunity. And I don't know that
the internet either seems to meas a positive or negative in

(30:51):
that.
I think it's just something thatis. I mean, I didn't have the
internet I had at 17 was so muchless. But I think I still had
that strong feeling. And I thinkone has to sort of learn how to
trust one's own thoughts andfeelings as valuable. And very
often, if you can do that,you'll find that other people

(31:13):
will respond to them and takethem seriously.
And the world will seem a littlesmaller, but in a good way. I
always sort of envied themillennials in a way, because
guys What?

You hate money?

Kurt White (31:24):
You guys took it. Well, it's a

love hate.

Kurt White (31:26):
It's a love hate thing. It's Same, to be honest.
You seemed to have an easiertime of that, take it seriously,
and the world will make room.And I don't know that we really
thought know what I mean? Butnow it's so full, maybe people
have come back around, andthey're not so sure if there's
any room anymore.
But I think there is room, wasroom, and will be room.

I do think I was gonna say my my main thought,
both hearing from Paul andhearing you talk about it, Kurt,
was like, you know, we can allargue about whether or not the
generational divide really makesa difference, but, like, I I
wonder if that is at play herebecause I remember growing up,
you know, in the early nineties.Right? We're we're just sort of
getting out of the the Gen Xapathy, but we're still in this

(32:11):
kind of like, you know, the mostimportant thing is to be cool,
and there was nothing less coolthan caring about stuff.

Kurt White (32:20):
Mhmm. Yeah.

And so for me, like, it felt almost like a
little rebellious to care aboutthings and to, like, have
strongly held opinions and to,like, you know, defend them and
advocate for them. And I wondernow if, like, the Internet is a

(32:41):
place where, like, everybody'sgot an opinion. They're
constantly advocating for them.They're all irritating as shit.
Is a way for you to, like, lookat the world and be like, uh-uh.
Like, that sucks. No. Thank you.

Georgia (32:54):
I mean, kind of to then add to this chronology we're
creating. When I was growing upin the February, the feeling was
very different than that. Thatbeing online was very much like,
oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna telleveryone. And it was a, you
know, a very embarrassing time,but one that was sort of enacted

(33:19):
upon by my peers and certainlyby myself. I was profoundly
sincere online, very publicly.
And I do I do struggle a bitwith the cacophony of voices now
and feeling a little paralyzedby it.

Yeah. It's interesting. I in pitch meetings
and in discussion, there are somany moments where we pause and
try to think, like, we'reassuming the Internet has
something to do with this insome, like like, catalistic way.
But is this just how, you know,insert thing works? Is this just

(34:01):
what it feels like to be ahuman?
Like, independent of theInternet? Is this just like how
this concept exists on theworld? Would a

medieval merchant recognize this Yeah.

Exactly. And so I feel like, yeah, I'm sort
of struggling on this particularquestion with that. In some
ways, like, yes, this is a justa reasonable way to fuel that a
lot of people feel. But in someways, I think this is tied into
the chronology we're setting upof sort of caring and posting on
the Internet. As somebody whoposted a lot on the Internet and
stopped, I think not justbecause I burned out from having

(34:31):
a public persona, but becausethere was a bit of frustration,
cynicism, despondency thatcreeped in, having been in a
space that was like forwardingideas and agendas and
understanding of the world, andwith some vague goal in the
future that if we justunderstood things enough and
sorry to the charts questionfrom before, if we could put

(34:54):
them graphically enough, if wecould just explain them
correctly, if we had enough postits to move around, clearly,
like, wisdom would win out, andwe would like make correct
decisions because we had betterand more information.
And as that's becameincreasingly difficult to see
positive outcomes from, or evenlike ways in which it impressed
the world, it became moredifficult to consider posting.

(35:18):
In some ways, that does start toreflect on like contributing my
ideas to a discourse, or havingan idea worth sharing, and some
sort of resentment of people whoassume that their ideas are
worth sharing in any way that Ihave to like get over a knee
jerk response of like, why wouldyou why would you tell anyone
anything you're thinking? It'snot gonna fucking matter, which
is a bad place to land.

Georgia (35:39):
I mean, I think there's a happy medium here. Because at
least personally, my frustrationis often with the belief that
you are now automatically anexpert on whatever topic. I get
frustrated by all these peoplebasically, actualing each other
until it becomes this ouroborosthat just sort of collapses in

(36:01):
on itself. But I think I thinkthere is space, Kurt, to kind of
what you were saying of, like,not taking it to that place, but
also not taking in the otherdirection where it's like, well,
why even say anything at all?Like, I think there's a space to
just be like, to make room tohave observations, to talk to

(36:22):
each other, to communicatewithout it either being, and
this is the definitive end ofthe story decision about this.

Mhmm.

Georgia (36:33):
And also feel additive. It's it's more communal. It's
more conversational.

Kurt White (36:38):
Mhmm. I was reminded, and I hope this is a
building adjoining, but if not,we have editors. I want to read
a little quote from a littlebook. It was a little book of
Georgia O'Keeffe paintings. Justa tiny little book of Georgia.
And there's a wonderful quote inthe front that I always have
loved. A flower is relativelysmall. Everyone has many

(37:02):
associations with a flower, theidea of flowers. You put out
your hand to touch the flower,you lean forward to smell it,
maybe touch it with your lips,almost without thinking, or give
it to someone to please them.Still, in a way, nobody sees a
flower, really.
It is so small. We haven't time,and it takes time, like to have

(37:24):
a friend takes time. If I couldpaint the flower exactly as I
see it, no one would see what Isee because I would paint it
small, like the flower is small.

Well, there you have it, Paul from Sweden.
Here's

your answer.

Kurt White (37:43):
I mean, means something. Every person's
something means something,right? We have to find a way to
not be the cliche of ourselves.And we do have to do that
publicly somehow. There's nocorrection for that but to sort
of bungle into it.

And it's and that's probably even harder when
you're 17. You know? Like, it'snot easy when you're 40. But No.
It's it's I I've at least got aa couple iterations of seventeen
years under my belt.
Doing the seventeen isparticularly hard.

Kurt White (38:15):
Yeah. That's right. And before long, you have an
award winning podcast. You

know, you hit 40, they just hand them out

to you. They hand them out to you. That's right.

Kurt, this next question I found here is
particularly plucks to appeal tothe Gen X in you. So we'll get
back to that.

Very good. Very good.

Chris writes it and says, finally getting
around to writing you aboutshutting down my PC. My
emotional response to thissimple act changed as the
interface did. For reference,I'm 45 years old. My PC was an
Apple two e.

Oh, yeah. I hope.

Kurt White (38:53):
Had one myself. It wasn't my but I did have one.
Yeah.

My early PCs had dedicated single function on
off switches. Often these camewith a satisfying clunk. That
sound Right. The time I foundmyself with a PC where the
default method of shutting downwas to click a menu option, I
felt genuinely offended.Especially since that process
took a bit of time, none of theinstant feedback of a switch.

(39:19):
I didn't like that it felt morelike a request than a command.
Maybe it was because PCs used tofreeze up rather more often than
they do now. I didn't trust thetechnology fully. PCs usually
still have an instant off switchhidden away at the back, but now
on the rare occasions I need touse this, it somehow feels
violent. Even switching my phoneall the way off seems, if not

(39:41):
extreme, then unnecessarilyforceful.
I've noticed my languagereflects this as well. What I
would once call a reboot, I'dnow call a hard reboot. If this
turns out to be a broaderphenomenon than just myself, I
wonder what has contributed tothe attitude change.
Anthropomorphizing language likeputting things in sleep mode? Do
our devices feel more likeextensions of ourselves?

(40:03):
I'd love to hear your thoughts.Even if it's to tell me,
hopefully gently, that I'm alonein this. Kurt, is Chris alone in
this? Oh, no.

Kurt White (40:12):
I I loved all that. Those old noises live in my soul
somewhere. I just love it. Ihave a collection of them in my
head and heart. And I thinkthat's a good that's extensions
of oneself.
It does feel like that. Andmaybe we're a little more
hesitant to sort of do violenceto it for that very reason.

(40:34):
Know, it's meant to be alwaysshining like a beacon in the
background or something likethat. There's something lost
when we do that and somethingsort of hard when we have to do
it. Yeah, I hadn't thought of itmyself in a violent way, but I
can easily imagine it.
I can easily imagine. My currentPC that I'm sitting here with,

(40:55):
it hides the button sothoroughly that every every time
I need to press it, I need toshine a bright light on it
because it's it's so hidden thatI can't even I can't even see
it. I don't know what thatmeans, but it it does it does
conjure a certain amount ofviolence in me when I have to
look for the goddamn things.

Well, I think that means like, this is these
are conscious design choicesmade by people who don't want
you to turn these things offever. And like the relationship
that we had at one point withthe machines where you had to
turn them on before engaging isit's gone. Like, they are always
there. We are always engaging.

Georgia (41:29):
Well, I think there's something here about access and
accessibility in terms of havingaccess to this device and the
device having access to you.Because I cannot remember the
last time I consciously turnedoff my phone.

Yeah. And it's for the same purpose that
it always has been, which islike, it starts doing too many
weird things and I don't knowwhy. And then I try to turn it
off, and I found that, like, Ihaven't turned off this model of
the phone enough, so I don'tactually know how to do it
quickly. Yeah. I have to, like,figure out which combination of
buttons starts to turn it offagain.

Kurt White (41:58):
You have to look it up.

And it's like a two stage process.

Kurt White (42:01):
You you get a lot of screenshots of you trying to

set up

the phone. Yeah.

Georgia (42:06):
But and it does Jason Jason, to your point of the
times I've had to turn my phoneoff are when it's, yeah, it's
glitching, something's notworking. And back to the
violence point, it does kind offeel like you're slapping
someone in the face becausethey're freaking out, and you're
like, snap out of it. Like,you're just like slapping.

I'll work you I'll wake you up again soon, buddy.
Just for a couple of seconds.Don't don't worry about it.

Well, it's like you're you're severing your
connection to the world. You'relike, well, I'm you know, like,
it it you disconnect. But thathas an embodied feeling to it
now. We are. As opposed to justan an emotional psychological
one.
Right?

Right. And also because there's a sense
like, it feels like the softwareis turning it off, not the
hardware, because there's not abig clunk button Mhmm. To turn
it off. Like, I'm I'm mad, like,I'm touching the screen and
swiping the thing and it'sturning itself off, and I always
fear that it will never let meturn it back on.

Yeah. Where do each of you keep your phones when you
come in of a night and you'rekind of done?

Oh, no. The face that Kurt made?

Kurt White (43:05):
Oh, god. I've turned into the person I never wanted
to be with this. It's turnedinto such a multifunction device
that I'm very often trying towake myself up without waking
Emily up. And so, I'll slip itunder my pillow with the hope
that my non noise alarm willwake me and not her before the

(43:27):
noise alarm. So I I literallysleep with it like a child
sleeps with a with a tooththat's just come loose under its
pillow.
No fairy has ever visited me inthe night, however.

Yeah. Well, then yes, it is an extension of
ourselves. I think that answers

Kurt White (43:45):
the I will make a note about the violence of
processes. You know, the oldUnix machines had all kinds of
violence built into thelanguage. You know, you would
kill things, kill as a command,right? I mean, this language,
they had a TV series, not a badone, a halt and catch fire, you
know, named after a realcatastrophic process that would

(44:06):
happen at that time. So I thinkwe were sort of used to a
certain level of violence builtinto our devices that's maybe
it's been sort of sublimated.

Kurt, thank you so much for taking some time out
of your busy professional realjob to join us for some some
good old fashioned podcasting.

Kurt White (44:26):
No. No. The world needs podcasts like this.

Don't you dare?

Kurt White (44:31):
I believe it. I believe it. You know? Don't
trust me. We need to send a goodmessage to our listeners here.
Right? We trust your instinctthat you have something to
offer.

There you go. So you heard it here from Kurt.
I want you to, before you go tosleep, turn the podcast on, put
it under

your pillow. Kurt, what are you guys working
on over at Unraveling thesedays? What do got coming up?

Kurt White (44:52):
Oh, man. Some wild and wonderful stuff. We're in
the middle of a series of threeepisodes in honor of Pride
Month. We just did an episode onqueer theory. And then next,
talked to a colleague inSingapore who's a music
therapist about all kinds ofdifferent aspects of expression
and protection and identity, andthen resilience in trans youth,

(45:15):
and then some great stuff comingup in July, too.

Hell, yeah. All right. We'll put some links in
the show notes.

Up next, we got a message from Alex about our
segment that we did. It wasactually a whole episode that we
did about whether or not theInternet is driving you. Yes.
You absolutely to the brink ofyour mental capacity. And Alex
said to us, I am an ex smoker.

(46:00):
And while I haven't had acigarette in over a decade, I
still think of myself as arecovering drug addict. I have
to. It's basically the onlything that keeps me from
starting up again. Shame can bea powerful motivating force. You
know?
Unlike a lot of ex smokers, Inever had a problem with a lack
of constant oral fixation. Me, Icould never figure out what to

(46:20):
do with my hands. Whilelistening to the episode, I
checked for my own stats of theday, and I was shocked to find
that I unlocked my phone 57times and spent nearly two hours
on TikTok and thirty six minuteson blue sky during a workday at
a job that in no way requiresany use of my phone. Is two

(46:44):
hours on TikTok worse than 20 orso cigarettes a day? Maybe not.
What I'm trying to say is Ithink TikTok and whatever else
you consider, quote, unquote,the feed are like cigarettes.
Like cigarettes, the feed makesyou think you need it to get
through your day.

Georgia (47:01):
I do really resonate with this idea of feeling like
you have to do something withyour hands.

Me too. Me too. As Hans was reading that, I
was like, feeling the impulsesgo down to my arm of like, you
should grab that phone, dude.

Georgia (47:13):
Oh, wow. Yeah.

Kurt White (47:14):
A lot

of the time Yeah.

Georgia (47:15):
A lot of times, I will notice myself just grabbing my
phone and, like, opening theweather app for, like, no reason
just to physically do it.

Yeah. Or it's like that thing where you're
like, oh, I'm gonna check I'mgonna check Instagram. Like,
okay. I checked Instagram. I'mgonna check TikTok.
Okay. I checked TikTok. I'mgonna check blue sky. Okay. I
checked blue sky.
Okay. I'm gonna check Instagram.I check Instagram.

Oh, yeah.

I'm done checking Instagram. I'm gonna check
TikTok.

Georgia (47:38):
Mean, I've done it even worse where I'd be like, now
that I'm done checkingInstagram, I'm gonna close the
app and it's time to checkInstagram.

I'll,

Georgia (47:49):
like, look at my own photos. Like, I don't know what
I'm doing. Like, and I will youknow, kind of to what we had
talked about in that actualepisode. It's almost like I've
been sleepwalking. I'll just belike Yeah.
Am I in the shower? Like, whatno. Like, I'm just like, how how
did I get here? Like, what am Ilooking for? That that's the

(48:11):
question I asked in the theepisode and it's something that
I use a lot as a barometer whereI'm like, wait a I feel like I'm
doing this with such freneticenergy and then I have to be
like, maybe we just maybe wejust fold our hands neatly in
our lap for a couple minutes.

I have a question for the three of you. How would
you describe, in what terms,metaphors, however you want to
think about it, the feeling ofbeing interrupted by something
else and being forced to hardeject out of the feed

That's great.

Before that cycle has completed. Is it great? Is
it great, or do you feel like alike, oh god.

No. I don't need anything that's happening
in a cycle. Like, there's nocomplete need to complete an
activity. There's nothing. It isjust time passing because and I
really do think like, Alex,like, I think you're on to
something.
Like, I really do think it itstarted because my hand hadn't
done a thing in a while. Andit's like, well, maybe there's
something on the thing that Igrab. And then you're just like,

(49:08):
in it a little bit. But when I'minterrupted, I'm not like, no. I
need my I was like, oh, okay.
Sure. What are we what am Idoing with my life?

Georgia (49:14):
Yeah. It feels like waking up. Like, feels which is
maybe dark to say. But, yeah, itreally feels that way. Because
otherwise, I mean, I'll be onTikTok looking at TikToks, and
maybe they're not especiallyfunny or I'm not finding my my
algorithm's not, like, pickingup what I want or something.
And I will have the thoughtwhile looking at TikTok, like,

(49:34):
oh, after this, I should openTikTok.

Like, wear my glasses? They're on your head.
Yes. Yeah.

Georgia (49:40):
Where I'm like, well, if I go on TikTok, I'll find
what I'm looking. And then I'mlike,

oh my god. I'm on TikTok. Oh god. No.

Georgia (49:47):
But, yeah, if if for example, someone calls me on my
phone and I'm scrolling TikTokand it just, you know, pauses
the video, that is the thingthat shows up on my screen. I'm
like, oh, my dad's calling me.Whatever feeling I feel of like,
hey, I was watching that orwhatever is vanishingly small.

Yeah. I think what Alex is describing is like
idle phone use. Right? Like,this is like the the hands are
not busy with other things andso I busy them or, you know, in
a sense, they busy themselveswith with the phone. And really
what it is is that it's like thephone the phone is a is the

(50:29):
easiest at the moment avenue tojust filling minutes and to
occupying the brain, or tohaving the brain occupied for
you.
Like, you know, you don't youdon't have to expend the energy
of practicing an instrument forten minutes or reading a book
for fifteen minutes or whatever.You can just pick up a device,

(50:50):
look at it, and have thingshappen to you that are, you
know, entertaining or informingor whatever. And I was gonna say
to sort of extend Alex'smetaphor a little bit, like, I
do think that, you know, a lotin a lot of ways, apps are like
cigarettes. It's just like ifeach individual cigarette was

(51:10):
also able in text to say to you,it's very important that you do
this as often as possible. Youthis is sort of how you are
defining who you are as aperson.
If you don't do this, you'regonna miss out on things that
are happening in the world.Please consider paying money to
do this too. It would be nice ifyou supported this individual

(51:33):
cigarette with a crowdfundeddonation. If you don't, we could
go away at any moment. Yes.
We depend on how good you feel.

And now

is a great time to talk about membership at
night.

Georgia (51:47):
Up next, we have a message from Tyver Foucault
about our roundtable on leavingsocial media platforms. And
Tyver writes, I left Twitter atthe end of twenty twenty two.
There was one other sadness thatI experienced before I left. In
the strange Twitter sphere,adjacent to weird Twitter, it

(52:08):
was common for micro fictionauthors and general weirdos to
make themselves a bot. Not AI aswe know it now, but a Markov
chain bot, which remixed thecorpus of your posts in the
style of at horse ebooks.
They were sweet little guyshappily puttering along, mashing
together pieces of your voice tomake their own thoughts, growing

(52:29):
as you grew. They often didn'tmake sense, but sometimes they
would say something veryprofound. Not unlike when a
toddler shares a perspectivethat surprises and delights. My
bot had been there beside me forsix years. He had a personality.
I read every post he made. Elonsaid he would kill the bots, and

(52:50):
he did. He killed mine, and hekilled the bot of my dear friend
and fellow author, Tiny Obscure,and we mourned. To honor them,
we made a zine.

Yeah. The I think the bot the bot ecosystem on
Twitter at its height was one ofthe best parts about it.

Georgia (53:08):
That's why that's so interesting. It

ruled. It was really really good. Man. And I
totally understand likemourning. You know what mean?
Like, suddenly, you know, like,there was mourning for horsey
books. Like, would be I can seewhy there would be mourning for
this. Yeah.

Yeah. It's interesting because it's like a
deletion of a like a contenttype and as well as like the
community that it lives in.Yeah. But I mean, honestly, the
coolest thing you could do afterthat is magazine. So

Georgia (53:32):
Oh my god. That's such a cool idea. I'm so glad you did
that. And then Tyver also sharedwith us the final tweet before
leaving Twitter, which goes asfollows. The Twitter leavers
oath.
I will not be terminally online.My friendships and community

(53:53):
will outlive this website. Myheart cannot be monetized. I
will not become food formonsters. Should their claws
find my flesh, may they drown inmy blood.

Fuck yes. Holy shit.

Every word of it true and hard

as fuck.

That's the hardest shit I've read all year.

Georgia (54:12):
We should start saying this together before we do live
shows.

Fuck it. I'm just gonna get it tattooed on my
chest.

Yeah. Sick as hell. Oh my god.

Hell yeah. Timer. Alright. And finally,
it's what you've all beenwaiting for, an update on cool
graffiti. Now I'm gonna have togo over the ground rules again.
This was supposed to be yourfavorite one word graffiti
instances.

Georgia (54:39):
The rules have changed.

But I'll allow that you just give me good
graffiti, but I'm mad about it.

Now it's now

it's just sick photos of funny things on walls.

Yeah. Exactly. Including the one,
which is a sticker. They sent mea sticker from Dylan that says
fuck Yelp.

Although the sticker doesn't just say fuck
Yelp.

Georgia (54:59):
It also says pure madness.

Yes. It's unclear if they're related. Right? In my
mind in my mind, they absolutelyare.

Georgia (55:08):
Yeah. Think they're different because the font is
different.

But they're so close.

Georgia (55:13):
Tonally, they are the same.

Somebody thought that putting them together was
funny, and they were.

They're right.

Yeah. And I like this as, one thought that
follows another. Like, premise,fuck Yelp. Conclusion, pure
madness.

Georgia (55:26):
Yeah. Well then, Jason, how do you feel about the next
one, which has, in fact, nowords at all?

I hate this, but I'm gonna allow it. Fabie
Fakes sent us a graffiti AmongUs guy.

Georgia (55:37):
Yeah. Just one of the Among Us guy.

From Italy. That's the surprising part about
this. Well Some Italian youthsare spraying Among Us guys on
their walls. Mamma Mia. No.
Alex Alex Morris sent a phrase,which is really stretching my
credulity here. He moved back toChicago Let's go. When he says,
when I moved back to Chicago afew years ago, my night out, we

(56:00):
went to Pequads for deep dish. Isaw this written on the bathroom
wall and I knew I was home.Wayne Gretzky killed my uncle.
Sad face.

The sad face really sells it.

Georgia (56:12):
I was gonna say, it's like, oh, man.

Does does this mean something to you
Chicago people? Like, at all?

Georgia (56:21):
I mean, I I I'm the worst person ever to ask about
this. Having lived here foralmost a decade,

I Does Wayne Gritsky killed any of your

family members? Not

Georgia (56:32):
yet, though. The possibility is always there. He
has a thirst for blood.

Kieran Rex sends in a famed piece of local
folklore graffiti on a bridgeover a highway that says, give
peas a chance, as in multiplevegetables. Peas, that's fun.
That's a pun. That's not oneword graffiti, but thank you for
sending it in.

Georgia (56:55):
Personally, I think the Brits have given peas enough
chances, frankly.

There's they're

they're Give seasoning a

chance. Confounding. The confounding
Yeah.

Georgia (57:03):
Give sees hey. How about

Yeah. Josh Pelton gave me a one word
submission. It's 50. 50. This iswhat

you want, Jason? This is what I want. This is

Georgia (57:14):
what you want. You like this

This is great.

A single word that you kinda cannot giggle at.
50.

50.

Georgia (57:20):
That's great. Scarf.

He also sent in chicken jockey,

which is two two people joining forces, it looks
like.

It does. It's yeah. Two different colors.

Chicken jockey is a Minecraft reference.

Georgia (57:31):
Oh, really? Yeah. Finally in this list is someone
who I believe is a friend ofmine, unless they have the exact
same name as him, Max Himmelho.Hi, Max. Your mom was my grade
teacher.
Who wrote in to say, it pains methat this could be my
contribution to such athoughtful, insightful show, but

(57:51):
here's Speedo fart.

Yeah. Hell yeah. Word. One word, Max. Speedo
fart.

Georgia (57:59):
One word. Speedo fart is one word. So Max, well done.

Next to a sleeping

Georgia (58:05):
Yeah. Yeah. Dick? Is that

a sleeping

dick? Is that a

Georgia (58:09):
dick that's asleep? Seems to be.

Wearing a little sombrero?

Georgia (58:13):
Yeah. Yeah.

Wearing a little hat.

He's doing something fun. You tell his
mom's a teacher because he knowshow to follow directions. One
funny word spray painted on awall. That's what I like. Well
done.
Put pictures of them on my desk.

Alright, folks. We mailbagged. We did it. Thank
you, friends, for joining. Thankyou, Georgia, Jason, Hans,

Georgia (58:39):
for chanting. I got scared.

Oh, spicy.

Hans, what spicy food are you gonna try next? And
then tell us in the next mailbaghow it went.

Oh, next mailbag? Okay. I'm gonna try tuna fish.
With a little bit of ranchpowder in it.

Wow. I'm gonna show it a packet of cracked
pepper.

And then point point to it across the room.

Now, like we always say at the end of the
episode, should their claws findmy flesh, they may drown in my
blood?

See you all next time. Yes.

Okay. Bye. Bye.

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