Practical Magic: A Witch’s Guide to Etsy Witches

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike Rugnetta (00:12):
Friends, hello, and welcome to Never Post, a
podcast for and about theInternet. I'm your host, Mike
Ragnetta. This intro was writtenon Tuesday, 10/21/2025 at
09:32AM eastern, and we have abubbling, swirling show for you
this week. Georgia, and I mean,could it have been anyone else,
talks to practitioner of themagical arts, Mahegan St.

(00:35):
Pierre, about the rise andsudden spotlight on Etsy witches
and how their approach comparesto witchcraft as practiced for
millennia.
Georgia speaks as well to PhDcandidate in forensic
psychology, Alex Frampton, aboutthe role witchcraft may play for
witches as a community. And alsovideo game menu music Halloween

(01:01):
edition. But right now, we'regoing to take a quick break,
you're going to listen to someads unless you're on the member
feed, and when we return, we'regoing to talk about a few of the
things that have happened sincethe last time you heard from us.
From my laboratory in the CastleEast to the master bedroom where
the vampires feast, the ghoulsall came from their humble

(01:24):
abodes to get a jolt from myfive stories this week. An
endless summer for you insideyour phone.
Product designer, LaurentDelray, of Meta's Super
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with the 1966 surfingdocumentary, which will generate

(01:44):
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I love writing sentences twentytwenty five. Here you are
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(02:04):
having dinner with friends, orat a social gathering, end
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x trust and safety team orwhatever is left of it at this
point will do to combatimpersonation, fraud, and other
chicanery as a result of thisprocess is anyone's guess. The

(03:40):
Cambridge University Libraryarchives are home to countless
letters, notebooks, photographs,scrolls, and now floppy disks.
In 2021, the library receivedthe Hawking archive donated by
the family of the renownedtheoretical physicist. In the
113 boxes of material, therewere included a number of

(04:02):
diskettes of various sizes andformats.
To preserve these records andothers like them, the BBC
reports that archivists have hadto turn to eBay, for example, to
acquire the appropriatetechnology. For archivists
today, the BBC writes, thatmeans dozens of separate
machines are needed to readdiscs of various sizes from

(04:23):
different systems, and it oftentakes significant searching to
track down these ancient deviceseverywhere from house clearance
auctions to collectormarketplaces. This has created
concerns among archivists,historians, and archaeologists,
they write, that futuregenerations may face a sort of
digital dark age when they lookback for material from the past

(04:45):
fifty years or so. Meta removeda Facebook group used by nearly
80,000 people to track thepresence of ICE, US immigration
and customs enforcement, acrossChicago during its now weeks
long deportation blitz acrossthe city. ICE, citing a

(05:05):
Chicagoland, was used to, quote,warn neighbors that federal
agents are near schools, grocerystores, and other community
locations so they can take stepsto protect themselves according
to the Chicago Sun Times.
The US Department of Justicerequested the page's removal
days after its existence wasnoted by dog food connoisseur
Laura Loomer. A Metaspokesperson said, this group

(05:28):
was removed for violating ourpolicies against coordinated
harm. It is unclear what harm isbeing referenced here. At the
time of recording, the officialFacebook pages for both ICE and
DHS responsible for at leasttwenty one deaths in 2025,
according to notice.org, remainaccessible. And finally, in

(05:50):
further Chicagoland news, therat hole was likely no rat at
all.
Nearly two years after theChicago rat hole became a viral
sensation, the Sun Times writeson Instagram, scientists have
weighed in on the debate overwhat type of critter made the
splat. The zoological mysterywas solved by researchers at

(06:10):
University of Tennessee,Knoxville, who wrote there is a
98.67% likelihood that theChicago rat hole was a squirrel.
We'll put a link to the story inthe show notes. You gotta go
look for the diagrams alone. Itis pure gold.
In show news this week, we'regonna do these real quick. We

(06:30):
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Congrats also to our pals CloseAll Tabs, who were also silver
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across a story and you think,oh, sounds like Neverpost. Okay.
That's the news I have for youthis week. In this episode,
Georgia talks with Mahegan SaintPierre and Alex Frampton about
witches online, offline, and thenature of the gulf between the
two. But first, in ourinterstitials this week, dredged

(09:09):
from the depths of archive.org,spooky video game menu music.
Selections include Elvira,Castlevania, of course, Shaken,
and Gauntlet. You can find afull list in the show notes.

Georgia Hampton (11:29):
What do you think people who are going to
Etsy for curses are looking for?

Mahigan St. Pierre (11:33):
God knows. God knows. Petty resolution
maybe or desperation. I doubtit's desperation because usually
desperation drives you to, like,dark alleys, not etsy.com.

That's Mehegan St. Pierre, a practicing witch
who offers services onlinethrough their business Kitchen
Toad. Not on Etsy, mind you.Astandardissue.com and a Patreon
and a podcast.

For me specifically, the witch is
someone who situates themselveswithin the world, within the
cosmos as a person of agencywho, you know, traffics with the
living, the dead, and naturespirits all around us in any
way, shape, form that might showup. The witch is someone who is

(12:22):
an intercessor between the worldof the living as well as the
world of spirit. Right? Thewitch often takes on a role that
is part priest, part communitytherapist, part healer, you
know, part sorcerer.

What does that mean? Well, in simplified terms,
the witch community exists toreplace the social hierarchy
that would otherwise rejectthem. A witch defines themselves
for themselves. They have aspiritual practice that is
grounded in the physical naturalworld. But what that practice
looks like is also determined byeach individual witch.

(13:04):
It can mean reading tarot ordoing someone's birth chart. It
can also mean calling uponspirits to protect yourself or
others. And even if a witch'spractice just focuses on
themself, witches are anextremely community focused
group. Historically, to be awitch is to be an other. To be

(13:24):
othered.
The term implies ostracization,isolation from the broader
community, and the promise ofviolence by that broader
community. But like many termsmeant to do harm, the label
witch and the practice ofwitchcraft have also been co
opted to be signals ofempowerment. These terms have
been redefined to suit amultitude of individual

(13:47):
interests. This process hasplayed out in witchcraft online
over the last decade or so. Iwanted to talk to McKeegan about
witches generally, onlinewitches specifically, and Etsy

(14:08):
witches even more specificallyafter the whole Charlie Kirk
thing.
Three days before Charlie Kirkwas assassinated, Jezebel posted
an article with the headline,quote, we paid some Etsy witches
to curse Charlie Kirk. Thearticle has since been removed,

(14:28):
but in it, the author describedhow easy it was to pick out a
curse. She compared it to beingas difficult as buying a phone
charger. The curse was supposedto be a low level inconvenience,
like getting a bad haircut. But,obviously, things turned out
differently.

(14:49):
The witch responsible for thecurse, named Priestess Lillian,
denied her workings had anythingto do with Charlie Kirk's death.
Then she kind of took it backand said how her workings are
effective and that curses canhave unintended consequences.
But it doesn't really matterwhat she said. People wanted to
congratulate her and to hire herto go after more politicians. It

(15:14):
also inspired, I mean, quiteliterally a witch hunt.
Priestess Leland received abarrage of death threats. Etsy
banned her. In the denouement ofall of this, I wanted to know
what is it like being a witch?What is it like being a witch
online? And maybe mostintensely, I needed to know how

(15:35):
does Internet witchcraft work incomparison to the non Internet
kind?
If you read the newsletter orlistened to our Halloween
special last year, it shouldcome as no surprise that I,

(15:56):
producer Georgia, have apersonal connection to this
topic. I've practiced some kindof occult spirituality my whole
life. I started reading my birthchart and collecting crystals in
elementary school. I read mycards regularly and will do
anyone's tarot if they ask me.If someone I know had a baby,
I'll make the baby's birth chartfor the parents.

(16:18):
I don't really do any kind ofspell work apart from cleansing
my apartment when it's calledfor, or maybe doing some full
moon rituals. My practice ispretty private. But there's an
entire world of witchcraft thatis very much a business. If
you're down on your luck andlooking for a metaphysical
solution to your woes, there arewitches ready and able to help.

(16:41):
Historically, the purchasing ofsorceress services is something
you had to go seek out.
By virtue of witchcraft beingthe work of the other, anyone
who might be interested inpurchasing spell work had to
leave the comfort of more quoteunquote polite society and go
find it. Centuries ago, thatmight have meant going into the

(17:04):
woods or walking down a darkalley that leads to another dark
alley that leads to an unmarkeddoor behind a brothel. Witches
were harder to find, and thatwas often by design. But now,
finding a witch is as easy asknowing the right search terms.
If you go to etsy.com and lookup the word curse, you get
exactly 1,280 results.

(17:27):
Search the word spell, and youget the same number. I don't
think this is some cosmiccoincidence either. I think it's
just the maximum number ofsearchable products that Etsy
allows. There's hexes tofinancially ruin someone.
There's love spells and spellsto block love spells.
Etsy witches get around theintangibility of their services

(17:47):
by listing spell work under thecategory of entertainment.
Product names are outrageouslylong. Things like bring back
stubborn x, return to me, comeback casting, love obsession
spell, love ritual for yourstubborn target, bring him back
love spell. Or 5 k to 10 k fastmoney spell casting, instant

(18:10):
cash spell for quick results,powerful wealth ritual,
immediate financial success,same hour or day. Etsy is the
Timu of sorcery.
The prices are also prettycomparable to Timu. That
stubborn ex spell would put youback $35. At Mahegan's shop, a
sweetening ritual costs twicethat amount. Where does Etsy

(18:34):
exist as a platform for magic inthe community? Is it reputable?
I don't

think so. I don't know that it is. I don't
know anyone in my circles andwho I consider peers, who I
consider to be like leadingvoices in this community, you
know, this broader communitythat does Etsy. To me, I've
always conceptualized Etsy asthis place where you buy like

(19:02):
packed with the 49 legions ofhell.

Basically, something that sounds scary, but
doesn't necessarily meananything.

That kind of thing rather than actually
working with a practitionerdirectly. I think that the model
of purchasing something throughEtsy, getting like an automated
email, and then like maybe areading, maybe a picture. Who
knows if it's the same if it'sthe same picture sent to
everyone, you know what I mean?But it's extremely impersonal.
And I think that by removing theperson from the actual process

(19:31):
of, you know, working services,you're no longer doing client
work, you are churning out somebullshit.

Their shop, Kitchen Toad, offers a wide
range of services. Things likecleansing rituals, handmade
charms, and the option to book areading or a consultation. All
available online for any clientwho crosses the digital
threshold. And this isn't justan add to cart hit purchase
situation. It's very involved.

There's an intake form. You know, you give
me your full name, your date ofbirth, a picture of yourself,
what you need out of this. Andthen once I have that money's
transferred, everything likethat, then, you know, I usually
get in touch with people, letthem know when it's gonna be
performed. And then depending onif they want divination
performed afterwards or theywanted a recap, which is
essentially a candle burningreading. Then at that point,

(20:23):
once the working is performed,there's pictures sent to you
and, you know, a description ofwhat happened, what I did, any
omens that came through, anysort of visions, anything like
that, as well as the results ofdivination.

The relationship between Mahegan and
their client is extremelyintimate, and it's completely
unique depending on the person.If the situation is more
complicated, say, if you want acurse to be lifted off of you
and there are lots of energiesat play, then this process is
also more nuanced. Maheegancaters to each person's needs.

(20:57):
One client might need a talismanto help protect them. Others
might not.
Sometimes during theseconsultations, Maheegan decides
that spell work isn't even whata person needs at all.

After the holidays, there's usually an
uptick in, like, cleansing workand then removal work and those
kinds of things because peoplecome away from the holidays
feeling icky and feeling, like,spiritually drained and such.
And so a lot of people will comeand inquire whether or not they
were cursed. And most of thetime, it's just like, no, your
relatives just suck. I'm gonnabe so real with you. Mima Mima

(21:30):
is not a great influence on you.

Through their online business, Mohegan is able
to foster a community ofclients, many of whom have been
coming to them for years. AndMohegan's work is very
emotionally taxing. In order toknow what any given person
needs, they need to know a lotabout that person. Fears,
traumas, resentments,insecurities. On Etsy, that

(21:59):
client practitioner relationshipis replaced with the promise of,
as Mihigan said I

fought my legions in hell.

Galloping to take vengeance on your behalf.
All fluff. Demonic fluff, sure,but no substance. But that kind
of fluff sells online. It'soutrageously popular, and it's
the most common flavor ofwitchcraft that shows up on my
feeds unsummoned.

(22:29):
I regularly see people postingvideos about how they quote
unquote hired an Etsy witch to,I don't know, make their ex
boyfriend go bald. Thismainstreamification of
witchcraft is mostly about whatkind of post you can make about
it. The term Etsy witch hasbecome kind of a meme, like the

(22:50):
Charlie Kirk thing, like a lotof things.

TikTokker (22:53):
I paid three Etsy witches to draw my soul mate,
tonight, we're gonna find out ifthey actually drew the same
person.
I paid, well, technically speaking, two Etsy
witches. One for good luck, andthen one for another thing that
we're keeping off the Internet,and that's fine.
Yesterday morning at 8AM, I paid an Etsy witch. She
casted four spells for me. Shoutout to my Etsy witch. I wanna
tell you guys about this until Ithought it actually worked, but,

(23:15):
bitch, it worked.

It's not entirely clear if the people who
book workings from Etsy witchesactually believe that curses and
spells are real. Frankly, itmight not really matter. The
point is the post. The sharingof the fact that you did it. A
kind of wink and a nod.
Like, we all know this is ajoke. And as Maheegan explained

(23:40):
to me, sharing this work isusually a pretty big no no.

There's this sort of like, this is hush-hush,
you know? Yes, we are onlinedoing things. It's a very
strange thing to kind ofcompute. Because it's like
you're public and you're saying,yes, hire me for these things.
But at the same time, there's alevel of respect that needs to
be understood that it's like,but this isn't for other people
to see necessarily.

Through Etsy, spell work isn't treated as a
communal interpersonal exchangeof energy that is best handled
privately. You're buying a spellfrom the same place that you buy
a cheap red sash that says,Huzzah, 'tis my birthday in old
English typeface. Which like,that's fine. It's just something

(24:24):
different.

They're going through something or
they're hanging out with theirfriends or what have you. And
like, you know, they're havingfun and they're like, oh my god,
what if we book a spell?

And that's exciting. Right? A little white
wine, a little hex, just anothernight with the girls. On Etsy,
witchcraft is presented in theway a sideshow at a carnival
might present it. With skullsand big capital letters and the
promise that this curse willdrive someone to the brink of
madness.

(24:56):
The product images are often AIimagery of the kind of stuff
you'd expect. Women with glowingeyes and jet black hair staring
intensely from behind acauldron. If the listing
mentions anything about demons,you'll be treated to the AI
generated image of a dozenSnarling, frogging nast of

(25:18):
terror. As if these very samecreatures are waiting at the
ready to torment your cheatingex. That is thrilling, but
impersonal.
It's the contentification ofwitchcraft, making it a product
you can pay for in four interestfree installments with Klarna.

(25:42):
Not something which encouragesdeeper spiritual inquiry, which,
you know, if you're out herewishing baldness upon your ex,
maybe that would be good foryou.

The fact that it's impersonal also means
that it's easy. And the factthat it's usually cheaper is
also easy. Right? The fact thatyou don't have to actually
confront your desire for whyyou're booking this work by
talking to a professional aboutit, means that you can book it,
set it, forget it, hope for thebest, or even set it out of your
mind.

(26:12):
Because it was $15. Who the fuckcares?

From this perspective, Etsy witches serve
the same purpose as a Zoltarmachine. One of those
animatronic fortune tellers yousee at arcades. Sure, you know
that the fortune you're gettingis one of a finite number of
options randomly handed to you.But you still pay for it
because, well, it's fun. Andpeople love fun, which for

(26:36):
witches is sort of a blessingand a curse.
Mahegan explained to me thatbeing a witch online means
maintaining a kind of publicperformance.

There's always a component when you're
doing public spiritual andmagical work of performance, of
pageantry, of, selling a story,selling an experience, selling a
feeling. In the same way thatthere's branding for, you know,
skincare and perfume companies,it's the same thing. The
pageantry is a necessary aspectof this to a certain extent
because that is what drawspeople in. And the showing off

(27:14):
is also a way to communicatecompetence.

Witchcraft has a long history of showmanship,
and showing off your skills is away to attract would be clients.
And the Internet lends itselfbeautifully to pageantry. When
your posts are shared morereadily by an algorithm that
favors bright colors, humanfaces, and striking visuals,
then social media could be theperfect place to perform your

(27:39):
spell work in front of apotentially endless crowd of
would be clients. But as Mihigantold me, the kind of things that
tend to attract the most peopleto a witch's online storefront
aren't things like spell work orpublic displays of spiritual
ability. It has nothing to dowith skill at all.

(28:00):
It's whether or not you, quote,unquote, look or act like a
witch. After the break, we learnmore about what that means. When

(29:54):
it comes to doing witchcraftonline, being a skilled sorcerer
matters less than looking like awitch. And Maheegan told me that
this game of aesthetic telephoneis a common thing for the more
popular witchy influencers.

They remodeled their kitchen to look
like practical magic. And, youknow, they talked about folklore
that they read in a book twentyyears ago once or twice. And
then they just created thisaesthetic around themselves, and
that's what that's what it is.Right? And they have hundreds of
thousands of followers.

Hundreds of thousands of followers is
achieved by mirroring theaesthetic of the expected, the
inoffensive, the friendly, theooky spooky, but not scary.
Frankly, the caricature.

Alex Frampton (30:41):
So we're talking about the pointed hat. We're
talking about potentially thegreen face, depending on kind of
how far back into Disney we'regoing. You know, the the grown
laugh, the black hats, thefrogs, the broomsticks, the big
cauldron.

That's Alex Frampton, a PhD candidate of
forensic psychology who co wrotea study in 2022 called In the
Broom Closet, exploring the roleof online communities in shaping
the identities of contemporarywitchcraft practitioners. In her
study, she spoke to a group of16 witches who found community
through online groups. And asshe explained to me, these

(31:17):
groups can each have their ownrelationship to stereotypes of
what witches are and what theylook like.

So, you know, all of these things are very
cartoonish. It's very cartoonishdepictions.

Some of the witches that Alex spoke to did
find community sometimes throughthese stereotypes. By either
subverting them, joking aboutthem, or even reflecting them in
their own way. And to her point,the stereotypes are really for
the witch to use or reject asthey see fit. If you want to
turn your kitchen into thepractical magic house, there's

(31:52):
nothing inherently wrong withthat. If anything, it might do
work to invite more witchcurious people into the fold.
As the concept of the occultbecomes more cartoonish, unless
actually frightening, it becomessafe. And by being safe, for
some, it can serve as an easierway into that world.

Sometimes it can be a gateway. You might be into
the aesthetic and actually gainsome real insights into your
values and actually do develop apractice.

And one of the most potent examples of this is,
well, practical magic. The greenfaced crone is transmogrified
into Sandra Bullock and NicoleKidman, who are young and hot
and cool and make it seem likewe too could be a little witchy
if we wanted to be. It's adeliciously inviting world of

(32:44):
witchcraft to operate within. Iwanna live in that world. And if
I saw a witch online who wasoffering her services surrounded
by the aesthetic signifiers ofpractical magic, I mean, it
might work on me.
And again, that isn'tnecessarily bad. But there is

(33:04):
tension here.

And that's because just looking the part
isn't always the same asembodying it. What you do lose
kind of if you kind of only wentas far as the aesthetic is you
do lose that connection tohistory and you do lose that
connection to, okay, why dopeople practice witchcraft in
the first place?

Witchcraft looks different for everyone who
practices it. There's no bible,no unified spiritual leader. You
get to define how your practicelooks and who you choose to
invite into it, if anyone atall. There's huge variations
between practitioners ofwitchcraft. But Alex explained
to me that from the people shespoke to in her study, there was

(33:47):
one big overlapping factor.

They'd experienced some sort of
exclusion in some capacity, somekind of social exclusion. So
whether it was, you know, thethe more kind of wider female
experience of misogyny or itcould be something like to do
with their health, whether itwas their mental health or their
physical health. But in someway, they felt that society had
been quite exclusionary. Any anykind of social exclusion, kind

(34:13):
of finding witchcraft, itprovided, you know, a place for
them to to find their tribe, soto speak, or to be able to
express parts of theiridentities that maybe would not
be so accepted in mainstreamsociety.

And for the intrepid witch who wants to find
a community of like mindedpeople who share in the same
experiences, the Internet isgreat for that. But it's also
great for, like I said,showmanship. And that's where
the tension lies. Performance ispart of the craft, especially if

(34:47):
you're offering services online.But there does seem to be a
limit to how much one shouldrely on that performance at the
sake of ignoring that sharedexperience of marginalization.

Throughout history and traditionally
speaking, where you're gonnafind your conjurers, your
witches, etcetera, is gonna bewithin the context of community.
The act of sorcery, the act ofenacting change through magic or
through traffic with spirits issomething that is really
difficult to do outside of thecontext of community simply for
the fact that if, you know,you're not engaging with

(35:24):
community, engaging with peoplearound you and you're not, you
know, taking on other people'sproblems, there's only so much
that you can really do foryourself. Right? And so you then
steer away from sorcery to thenjust spirituality. Right?
And that's where the line kindof draws itself between devotion
or worship versus actuallyworking spirits.

It feels like online, the process breaks down
like this. Showmanship getsattention. That attention might,
at first, form a kind ofcommunity. But after a while, if
you're not careful, that desirefor showmanship can easily eat
away at any real creation ofinterpersonal relationships. The
old razzle dazzle does work atgetting more people through the

(36:11):
door.
But if that's the only thing youoffer, then whatever community
that once existed kind of fallsaway. And to a degree, I think
that's kind of the tried andtrue story of the Internet as a
marketplace for business. In avisually dominant digital world,
attention is an undeniablecurrency. And if you're willing

(36:34):
to sacrifice community for thesake of getting more attention
and therefore more money in thebank, then the Internet is a
flawless place for business.Witchcraft is not the only group
that has had this kind offlattening happen to them
online.
But it's a very good example ofthis perfect formula. The

(36:56):
overvaluing of the aesthetic ofa niche group, plus the use of
that aesthetic to make money.But it's not really money that's
the problem here. Witchcraft hasalways been a business. The
trouble here iscommercialization.
It's taking a centuries oldpractice of empowerment through

(37:17):
agency and turning it into an AIimage of a black haired witch
glowering in front of TheInternet should be a great place
for witchcraft as an industry.And for Mehegan, it is. But it's
also just a piece of the puzzle.

In terms of offering services, it's not for
everyone. Right? Offering theservices part is kind of a thing
you might be drawn to or thatyou might not be drawn to
depending on your own practice.But for me, there always needs
to be a component whether or notyou're charging for services of
acting on behalf of the livingtowards the world of spirits and
then on behalf of spiritstowards the world of the living.

(38:01):
So you're really like an agentof change and agent of
relationship.

They're able to work with people who live all
over the world towards thesegoals. And that's powerful. The
Internet also gets their nameout there to more people more
quickly. But taking yourbusiness online and having it be
successful is a multi headedbeast. Building a community
online is one of the heads ofthe Hydra.

(38:27):
But there's a second moretroublesome one too. You said
that doing this work online iskind of a pain in the ass.

Mhmm.

How?

I signed up to be a witch, not a social
media manager. You know,spiritual people and witchcraft
people and people with activemagical practices often do not
have the interest to delve intowhat it means to be an online
personality. Right? That's notthat's not what people signed up

(38:58):
for. But unfortunately, it's thereality of things nowadays.

For someone like Maheegan, that might mean
posting on Instagram on aschedule or fielding DMs. The
net they're casting isostensibly broad. Their website
or podcast could, in theory,reach anyone. But they are not
sacrificing their relationshipto community for the sake of
attracting the most amount ofattention. But the internet

(39:23):
makes it extremely easy toovervalue performance at the
cost of building a realcommunity.
Sacrificing that interpersonalconnection at the altar of SEO.
There's a fine line betweenmarketing yourself and
sanitizing the subculture yourepresent, of turning witchcraft
into a carnival game. Somethingflashy, fun, and forgettable.

(39:49):
And if you really wanted to leaninto the Zoltar machine method
of things, there is no betterplatform to do it than Etsy.
You're not going to Etsy insearch of curses to find a
semblance of community.
You're going there to spend$12.74 on a hex removal spell.
There's a reason that so many ofthe thumbnails I saw on that

(40:11):
site were using AI imagery. Itmakes sense. It's honestly a
perfect choice for what's beingsold there. AI imagery has no
soul, no human touch, nopersonality.
And while I am sure that thereare some witches on the platform
who use it very sincerely, Etsylends itself to a kind of

(40:32):
anonymous impersonal exchange.Etsy is, in many ways, the
perfect example of how any nichecommunity can be sanitized
online throughcommercialization. There's no
community. There's nointerpersonal relations beyond
clicking purchase. Ittrivializes witchcraft into its

(40:53):
most mimetic form.
But the truth is no one is safefrom the way that witchcraft has
been defined historically. Itmakes me think of what Alex said
earlier, how it can be dangerousto only think of the aesthetics
of witchcraft and ignore thereasons why people turn to it in
the first place. I think Etsyshows the consequences of that

(41:16):
exact kind of thinking.Regardless of the intentions of
any given practitioner on thesite, the meme of the Etsy witch
does turn the craft intosomething cheap and easy.
Offering services like spellwork becomes a funny way to
spend $12.74.
Until it's not funny anymore.For the people buying these

(41:39):
services, something like theCharlie Kirk debacle could be
just another joke, another meme.Hell, it could drive more
traffic to Etsy. But for thepractitioners selling these
services, it's very real. If youhex the wrong person in the
wrong way, like Charlie Kirk,for example, you could get the

(41:59):
wrong kind of attention from thewrong kind of people.
Community is what acts as aprotector for witches. And Etsy
just doesn't enable the kind ofpersonal, intimate exchange of
energy that is so foundationalto witchcraft. It will not
encourage the community that hasuplifted witchcraft as a

(42:21):
practice for centuries. That'sjust not the business model. On
Etsy, if you come back from theholidays thinking that Meemaw
cast a curse on you and youwanna buy a hex removal spell,
it takes two seconds.
Nobody's going to tell you no.But the craft is a little more
complicated than just clickingadd to cart, and that's sort of

(42:43):
the point.

There's something to be said about, you
know, this work very much beingpart of the demi monde.

What do you mean by that?

Without without getting too too rated
rated 18, you know, sex workersand pimps and drug dealers and
those kinds of things. All ofthe like sketchy business that
goes on at night, magical workis kind of a part of. Right?
Just because of the nature ofthe work that we do. I mean,
you're breaking into cemeteriesin the middle of the night,

(43:13):
burying shit, you know, etceteraetcetera.
You might be hired to, you know,curse people or to, you know, do
a bunch of different things likethat. And so the moral compass
needs to be developed and finelyattuned for sure. Who do you go
to when, you know, you need toget an edge on the competition
even though you're in a highranking position? You go to the

(43:33):
people who are a little sketchyand who will do whatever needs
to get done. And, you know, whodo you go to when you're really
down on your luck and you're atthe bottom of the barrel?
Same story. You know?

A huge thank you to Alex Frampton and Mehegan
St. Pierre who both offered suchinteresting and insightful
perspectives on this topic. I'llinclude links to Alex's study
and Mahegan's website in theshow notes. If you're a witch or
someone who is spirituallyconnected to witchy things, I'm
curious how you've interactedwith the craft as it exists

(44:20):
online. And if you bought acurse or a spell on Etsy, I
wanna hear from you too.
Why did you do it? What did youexpect? The links for how to
contact us in the show notes.

That is the show we have for you this week. We
are gonna be back here in themain feed on Wednesday, November
5. Each episode of Never Postrepresents a couple 100 person
hours of work by a team of sixpeople, hand researched,
handwritten, hand scored, handsound design, hand spoken into a

(47:32):
microphone, and then hand editedwith a mouse on a computer. At
two episodes a month, that meansthat our $4 a month membership
gets you bespoke, ad free, humanmade, agonized over podcast
episodes for $2 a pop. Was thisepisode that you just listened

(47:52):
to $2 worth of entertainment toyou?
If it was, please head on overto neverpo.st and become a
member today. Support yourfavorite local indie internet
pod so that we can keep tellingyou about which witch is a
witch's witch. Never Post'sproducers are Audrey Evans,

(48:14):
Georgia Hampton, and themysterious doctor first name,
last name. Our senior produceris Hans Buto. Our executive
producer is Jason Oberholzer.
The show's host, that's me, isMike Krugnetta. We asked, what
is this? It rustled. We dug ahole. What is this?
We asked. Anocturama? No. Weagreed. The thing was not

(48:36):
anocturama.
Anocturama is when you cannotcatch their breath. We nodded.
We dug a hole. Our white hairwarmed around the thing. We
asked, is this a genesis?
No. We agreed. The thing was nota genesis. A genesis is when he
sweeps across the water. Wenodded.

(48:56):
It rustled. We stood closer toeach other. We asked, what is
this? A stillness? Excerpt ofthe experiments lasted through
the winter by Sabrina Ora Mark.
Never Post is a production ofCharts and Leisure and
distributed by Radiotopia.

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