Episode 194: Freak Off Friday

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Curry (00:00):
Podcasting 2.0 for September 20, 2024, episode 194,
it's a freak off Friday. Helloeverybody. It is Friday once
again. And boy, we are in a goodmood because Fridays are always
good days. It is time for theone and only board meeting of
podcasting. 2.0 itbr,everybody's in the boardroom. We

(00:22):
are, in fact, the only boardroomthat will never send a message
to your pager, I'm Adam curryhere in the heart of the Texas
Hill Country and in Alabama, theman who climbs big rocks, he
drinks his beef and delightsaudiences all over the world say
hello to my friend on the otherend, the one and only Mr. Dave
Jones,

Dave Jones (00:42):
man, the the beef milkshake today is just not.
It's just not happening. It'snot. You're not feeling it. It's
it's not. There's no beef in it.That's the

Adam Curry (00:51):
problem. What do you just have chocolate powder or
what? That doesn't sound right?No,

Dave Jones (00:57):
it's like. So I got this new I got a new flavor. I
like, branched out away from thechocolate and went with the
vanilla. Yeah, and it's just No,it's not good. Vanilla

Adam Curry (01:09):
beef just doesn't sound good to me. So not good.
Vanilla beef,

Dave Jones (01:16):
it is not good. And so I've like, I'm just trying
to, like, I tried to force itin, and it wasn't happening. So
now I'm just, I'm just have wheyprotein, and then, and then I
tried to put, like, something inthere to spice it up. Because,
just because I the milk I usefor it is this, like, low sugar,

(01:38):
you know, milk that's been andso it's like, high, it's like a
high protein milk, yeah, so I gothe high protein milk creatine,
and

Adam Curry (01:51):
you got cretin, cretin I got,

Dave Jones (01:54):
I got cretins in my shake. And then I got some, just
some whey protein isolate inthere. And, like, none of that
has any flavor whatsoever,because you've even taken the
sugar out of the milk, yeah? Soit just tastes like drinking
chalk. And here's,

Adam Curry (02:12):
you know, what you could do to spice it up, little
bit of bourbon. Just, just forthe board meeting, yeah? Just
for the board meeting. Just forthe board meeting, just for the
board meeting. Just little nipbabies. No problem.

Dave Jones (02:26):
Nip from the putt from the pocket flask, yep.

Adam Curry (02:30):
Oh man,

Dave Jones (02:32):
I put, what I did was I put a I put a yogurt in
there with it and shit, andblended that up. And that's not
what I thought it was gonna be.No, no, it's even worse. Now I'm
just like, forcing it down.

Adam Curry (02:46):
Oh, nasty. So what you got on your list, brother,
we only have an hour and a halftoday because you said I got it
hard out, kind of hard out, youknow, get back. Can't stay in
the board meeting too long. Gota hard out. It's in summer.
Hours are over. It's done, it'sgone, it's toast.

Dave Jones (03:00):
It's done. Let's see. What do I have? Well,

Adam Curry (03:04):
maybe I can ask you a question, just because I
didn't understand

Dave Jones (03:07):
this to my notes, okay, yeah, flip to your notes.

Adam Curry (03:10):
What is the conversation about podcast
images and why don't Iunderstand it?

Dave Jones (03:16):
That is in my notes, my notes right under making a
podcast with Google notebook.LLM, LM, via CSB, yeah,

Adam Curry (03:26):
which is also fun, yes. Um, yeah.

Dave Jones (03:29):
So that's, well, I've got which one. What do you
want to do?

Adam Curry (03:34):
You want to talk about images, but whatever you
want, it's up to you.

Dave Jones (03:38):
What is your understanding of image? Of the
image thing, because this isnamespace talk, by the way. Oh,

Adam Curry (03:46):
and now it's time for some hot names. That's
right, we're sizzling up yourFriday right off the bat. We're
not waiting. We're not mate,we're not teasing you with the
hot name space talk. We give itto you right away.

Dave Jones (03:58):
Five minutes in, we're already in the namespace.
This is a record, baby, hot

Adam Curry (04:03):
name, space talk.

Unknown (04:05):
Well, you're selling it now.

Adam Curry (04:08):
Well, because I saw, you know, I saw a post, and then
I saw Stephen B come back andsay, Well, I only do, I do
single, not multiple. And thenI'm like, I recognize this,
because if I go to sovereignfeeds, there is a tab for
images, and you can add images,and I've never and for the

(04:33):
episodes for the podcast and andso I'm like, well, maybe it has
something to do with that, thatI can add extra images and and
then I was like, You know what?I'm lazy. I'm just gonna ask
Dave,

Dave Jones (04:47):
thanks. First of all, I need to kill the oh,
gosh, I've got like 200 tabsopen in this browser. This is
gonna crash my computer. This.Trend I gotta get,

Adam Curry (05:01):
I get the, get the jingle ready for you for the
boot, yeah,

Dave Jones (05:06):
successfully closed every time clean feed.

Adam Curry (05:09):
Now is this Linux that crashes with so many tabs
open? Yeah, yeah, because thatsounds wrong. Doesn't sound
right. But

Dave Jones (05:20):
you know, Ubuntu with a lightning Node running,
you know, in 27 containers is, Imean, it's not the most stable
thing in the world. So, okay,you know, I mean, the whole
computer doesn't crash. It'smore like the the windows crash
the window manager. But, um,

Adam Curry (05:41):
oh, because that's totally okay. Yeah,

Dave Jones (05:44):
it's fine. It's just like, it's like, your rodecaster
Having to reboot it. It's fine.

Adam Curry (05:48):
It's all Linux, baby, just the drivers. It's
always the drivers.

Dave Jones (05:52):
It's Linux all the way down. Well, okay, so we've
got, the long and short of it iswe have, we have competing
proposals. We have a fightBruin, uh oh,

Adam Curry (06:03):
a name, nerd fight, namespace fight, nerd fight,
nerd fight.

Dave Jones (06:10):
No, it's, uh it's, it's kind of competing
proposals, but not really like Ithink it's so here, here's what
is here. So here's what's goingon. We want to add, many people

(06:32):
want to add banners, some sortof idea of a banner image that

Adam Curry (06:36):
can be used for other for things, for things,

Dave Jones (06:39):
things, yeah. So, you know, like one, one good
example of social media. Socialmedia needs. They they like
banners. They like you to haveyou used to it was just like you
had your avatar, right? And youput it on a gravatar or
whatever. Yes, gravity, remembergraviton? Sure. I think it's

(07:00):
still, I'm sure, it is. And soyou just have an avatar for
various things in your social inyour social graph.

Adam Curry (07:10):
Um, just threw up in my mouth. Yes, my social
accomplished. Yeah, yeah, welldone. Well done. Well played,
sir.

Dave Jones (07:18):
Now you like, I'm not sure which one was the first
to do this. Which social contextis, what may have been Facebook.
I think Facebook has always hadthis idea of adding in this
extra thing that's a banner, andso it like goes, sort of like
across the top, so you have youravatar and it's over. It's
laying over this sort of like,fancy banner looking thing,

(07:42):
which would be sort of like, Idon't know, like a three, like,
aspect ratio, three to one, fourto one type thing, yeah, where
it's pretty, you know, it'slong, sort of long and skinny
ish. What

Adam Curry (07:53):
happened to the skyscraper? Remember that
skyscraper? Yeah, the skyscraperwas a banner, a vertical banner
on the side that was sold tosome inventory. Oh, we've got a
skyscraper on the side. Don'tyou remember those? A banner ad
turned rotated 90 degrees.

Dave Jones (08:13):
Okay, so, so the, I remember the masthead, you know,
image or whatever. But not, Idon't know about the skyscraper,
so you've got, you've got thisidea that that we want to put
into the feed, and this wouldhelp with all kinds of things,

(08:35):
like, like pod page,

Adam Curry (08:36):
yeah, for sharing stuff is what we kind of what we
were talking about is sendingextra stuff along with your feed
that can be used in to fill upyour MySpace page. Yeah, yeah,
exactly, yeah.

Dave Jones (08:49):
And, and then, okay, so you can take this farther,
and it has been proposed in inthe past, in the issues like two
year two, maybe even three yearsago, it was proposed that
they're like, that you could, wecould implement, like, an
entire, like, style guide, orwhatever, inside the the feed,

(09:12):
so you have, like, Okay, this,this podcast has this color
palette that it that It alwaysuses for its, you know, right
style. And so you could put thatinformation in there. Well, you
know that that got rid that,then you start to get pretty
dicey, because then the appdevelopers are like, you know,
what are

Adam Curry (09:33):
you doing to my art? Man,

Dave Jones (09:35):
yeah, hey, screw you. I'm not gonna, like, let
you style my that's

Adam Curry (09:38):
not gonna happen. No, yeah.

Dave Jones (09:40):
And then there's also, there's, there's, there's
the the knee jerk of that, butthere's also the, just the
realistic difficulties of, okay,my app uses, my app needs to now
calculate like contrastingcolors so it knows what text to
overlay on top of this otherthing. Right? Just, it's a big

(10:01):
mess. I mean, it's, it would begreat. It in in cons. This is
one of those things that theconcept is, is really good. And
you're like, Oh yeah, that wouldbe great. And then, like, the
actual putting in, into intoproduction, becomes this sort of
nightmare of edge cases anddifficulties. For an example of

(10:23):
this, see the difficulties thatApple had on Mac OS trying to
get that the menu bar at the topto be

Adam Curry (10:32):
three color and be consistent, uh huh, and

Dave Jones (10:35):
still be readable. And also that, yeah, even they
couldn't do it right. And theygot the best designers ever. So
it's a big mess, so, but that'sa side that's a side tangent, so
that the matter at hand is thebanner stuff. And you can say,

(10:55):
Okay, how could you solve howcould you solve that problem?
And in asking that question,you've there's been sort of two
ideas proposed, one by Nathangathri, one by Russell from pod
two. And so Russell has actuallyalready put this stuff into

(11:21):
anyway that Poso podcast hostingcompany, yes, he's already put
this into their feeds, and hejust created a new tag.

Adam Curry (11:27):
He's the SAM Sethi of hosting companies,
apparently.

Dave Jones (11:34):
So he created a new tag called podcast colon
banners, or podcast colonbanner. Banner, no, it banners,
I'm sorry, banners. And then inthere he's got a tag, like in
this, this is a parent node fora tag, a parent tag for it, for
a podcast banner, tag thatdefines a a source, so you know,

(11:58):
URL to an image, right? A mind,

Adam Curry (12:01):
Oh, okay. Oh, so it can be video. Could be a video
banner and

Dave Jones (12:07):
an aspect ratio.

Adam Curry (12:09):
Okay, by the way, so far, I'm on board with the idea.

Dave Jones (12:14):
And if it's and if it's a, if it's a video, it also
has a length attribute, right?Um, now this is fine. I don't
really have a problem with withthis. I like sort of
semantically pleasing tags likethis. You know, we all want to

(12:36):
be semantically pleasing in ourlives, and this is this fits
this

Adam Curry (12:39):
man. If I could be semantically pleasing to my
wife, I'd have it made a goodlife.

Dave Jones (12:44):
If you figure out how, give me, shoot me a text,
yeah? Because I need that in myown life as

Adam Curry (12:49):
well. I'll do a blast on the social a blast,

Dave Jones (12:52):
yeah, put us on blast. So he, I mean, he's, he's
not only defined the tag. He'sdoing it. I mean, he's just
running. He's running with somesome humongous scissors. So you
have that, then you have acompeting proposal which uses an
exit, which just modifies theexisting images tag. You know,

(13:17):
this is the one that that Jamescridlin gets heartburn from

Adam Curry (13:23):
because no one uses it and he wants it out. Yeah,
right, right.

Dave Jones (13:28):
So podcast, colon images is has been in the spec
forever, for a long time, yeah,and pod LP app already uses it.
Currently is defined this way.So can I ask? Yeah,

Adam Curry (13:43):
maybe in your in your definition, give the
example of how pod LP uses it.Because I currently have, in our
feed, I have, let me just makesure I'm saying it right. We
have episode image URL andpodcast image URL.

Dave Jones (14:04):
You don't have a tag in our feed called podcast colon
images. Hold on.

Unknown (14:12):
Let me see,

Dave Jones (14:15):
sir Spencer says he uses podcast images. Okay?
Images. You hand code your feedthough, sir Spencer, right.

Adam Curry (14:22):
We do not have that, okay, no, but I think I'm
looking at Sovereign feeds. Ithink sovereign feeds is just
set up to do it because, becauseit also says, it says default
image URL synced with podcastmetadata, which, okay, not sure

(14:44):
what that means, but okay, I

Dave Jones (14:47):
don't know either. No, all right. No, I I have a
standing rule to never look atsir Spencer's images on anything
that's right, absolutely youdon't have to tell me,

Adam Curry (14:58):
though that idea, I. Um,

Dave Jones (15:01):
so the podcast images tag was based on the
html5 source set, syntax, src,s, e, t, that's an attribute
that's in the html5 image tagwhere you can say you can define
a source set and say, and thenyou can have multiple images

(15:26):
defined in the same attribute.So instead of just a source, you
can have a source set. And thatsource set is, is a is an array
delimited by commas, where eachmember of the array is a URL in
a space, and then the horizontalwidth of the image in pixels,

Adam Curry (15:51):
okay, and that's what Stephen Bell was talking
about. He his his stuff wouldn'ttake an array, I guess, or
whatever,

Dave Jones (15:59):
something like that. And so the one thing that has
been misunderstood, and James,this is a misunderstanding that
James has, is looking at thatsource set and saying, okay,
then it can only, I've heard himsay this multiple times, that it

(16:19):
means that the images have to besquare, because you're saying
this image is a 1500 about 1500this image is 600 by 600 that's
not that's not the case the thesource set defines the URL and
the width. It doesn't define theheight in the source set. Yes,

Adam Curry (16:39):
I see that.

Dave Jones (16:41):
So it can be, it doesn't have, they don't have to
be square images. They justthat's, that's a
misunderstanding. So the thecurrently, the images tag is
based on that terminology.Excuse me, that that that pro
sort of standard within html5and that's standard is in use in

(17:03):
browsers. I mean, it's asupported thing. So the idea
was, we can just take this, youknow, this would be an easy, an
easy pickup for people who,under already understands, you
know, html5, modern, modernHTML. And so then Nathan's in
proposal to get the banner stuffin there is to extend the images

(17:27):
tag to have to be more to it'snot a breaking change, but it
would be more consistent withexisting podcast image tags, and
also have this other stuff in itthat could accommodate what what

(17:48):
Russell wants, or what we allwant with banners. So his
proposal is, first of all, youmake it where you can have
multiple tags, either in thechannel or an item, because
currently it's only single andthat just seems, that seems fine
to me. Then you have a sourceattribute, just like a standard

(18:09):
image tag, you also have thesource set that you can use. The
source, the way he describes it,is a fallback media URL if
multiple sizes are notavailable. Which it sounds, that
sounds, that makes, that makessense. Then you would have a
type. So it'd be a MIME type,which is, you know, logical,
which logical, logical. And thenyou have the aspect ratio. And

(18:33):
his aspect ratio defines, is thesyntax of the aspect ratio he's
using, is the SIA is what CSSuses, and Eric PP is because you
can provide multiple images inthe same tag. That's why it's
called images and not image. Sothe aspect ratio is defined like

(18:59):
with a slash. So you like 16 bynine would be 16 slash nine,
because that's how CSS does it.And so that, again, this would
make this an ease, sort of aneasy pickup mentally, for people
who are already used to webdevelopment, right? And so that,
that kind of that solves thesame problem just by extending a

(19:21):
diff a different tag instead ofcreating a new one. Now, my my
clear preference here is forpodcast images to be extended.

Adam Curry (19:38):
Yeah. I mean, I can see why, of course,

Dave Jones (19:42):
and rather than creating a new tag called
banner,

Adam Curry (19:45):
right? Yeah, because there can be all kinds of
images, you know, might be afunny way images, promo video. I
mean, it's kind of a whacked outway of describing. Driving an
image, which isn't an image,it's a video, but I guess you
could use that, right?

Dave Jones (20:07):
Yeah, a dog's hell in it.

Adam Curry (20:11):
They just that was your dog. I thought it was my
dog. I was your dog.

Dave Jones (20:14):
No, it's not okay. I think a fire truck one button
and he started hell. Yeah,there's, but I'm gonna play
devil's advocate against myselfhere, though, the the there's
one you know, Russell is, isattracted to the semantics of

(20:37):
having a tag called podcastbanner, and I understand why.
It's because, you know, if youthink like a machine, then if
you have a tag that is that justsays podcast images, and it has
an and one of the images definedin there has an aspect ratio of

(21:00):
one to one. One of them has anaspect ratio of 16 by nine, and
another one has an aspect ratioof three to one. Nothing about
the presence of any of thattells you whether one of those
is intended to be a bannerimage, right? I mean, you could
be grabbing an image and like,you know, oh yeah, anything

(21:23):
that's three to one or four toone or, well,

Adam Curry (21:25):
perhaps the description, the description is
wrong. I mean, a banner is adescription and an aspect ratio,
you know? I mean, whereas Imight have an image that I
determined to be a social mediashare image, or an image that I
intend to, you know, I want thisat the top of something. So

(21:46):
therefore it's a banner. Youknow what I mean? Is it A, is
that the descriptor is wrong?

Dave Jones (21:53):
Yeah, like, because some, well, some banners could
be like, not all, none, likeblues. So the ones I know of,
Facebook, Twitter has a banneridea, Mastodon has a banner
idea. Blue sky. I mean, a lot ofthese social media things, and
I'm sure immediately there wouldbe use amongst things like

(22:13):
podpage and and hosting companywebsites, maybe even sites like
plink and those kind of things.So, but, but, if you don't
clearly say this is what thisthing is supposed to be, if you

(22:34):
just randomly take the first youknow, Oh, this one's a three,
three by one, because, becauseblue sky stuff is maybe three
and a half to one, right? AndFacebook's is four to one, and
it's like, well, which like,what you really want. What you
really want is, is a a tag thatsays, Look, I'm a banner. That's

(22:57):
what I'm supposed to be. Youknow? Now, the reason it works
with images, with album art, thereason album art doesn't have to
say, Hey, I'm album art isbecause, historically within
podcasting, if you find an imagein there, it's album art, right?

(23:17):
Because there was only ever thatuse case initially, and that use
case lasted so long that thatit's just, that's just the way
it works. But now we havesomething, the ability to do
something new, and now thatwe're introducing something new,

(23:38):
you you can cause you can justdump a whole bunch of stuff into
a feed and have no idea how toactually use it, right? So, I
mean, my, my, here's where I'mat right now as far and tell me
what you think about this. Ithink these changes to the

(24:00):
images tag are good enough ontheir own to just to justify
adopting the changes regardless,take the banner idea out of it
for the for a minute, justhaving these changes is fine,
because it doesn't really breakanything.

Adam Curry (24:19):
I think that's the same point, not not breaking
anything or or unnecessarilyadding a new tag when we could
shoehorn it into an existingone,

Dave Jones (24:28):
right, right? And so I think that that that stands on
its own as a way to do this, thebanner thing is harder because,
I mean, I like the idea, but Ithink it just needs, I think it

(24:52):
needs some more discussion aboutwhether or not the banner there
might be. A different way to doit. So let me see what I'm
trying to say here. So insteadof defining the banner and it
ended up in it ending up justbeing a different version, like

(25:12):
it looks exactly like images,except it just has a different
name. Perhaps the images tag canalso have an ID, and then the
and then you have a tag thatsays banner, and it just tells
you which image is the banner.Yeah, so banner, and then an
attribute that says, you know,

Adam Curry (25:35):
MIME type, URL, aspect ratio, no,

Dave Jones (25:39):
no, no, no. So you have, you have a you have a each
images tag has an ID, equals IDequals 1577, right, right,
right. And then you have abanner tag that says banner.
It's got one attribute that saysID equals 1577, and you know
that that image is the bannergot it.

Adam Curry (26:01):
I mean, like, instead of just using the word,
instead of just using the wordbanner, we'll use a code for it.

Dave Jones (26:07):
Well, it's kind of like, it's kind of like what you
do in HTML, where you say, whereeach HTML tag or element can
have an ID associated with it,and so then sometimes you say,
sometimes you have, like, alabel tag in HTML, and you say,
four equals this other band,this other HTML tag, and so you

(26:29):
know that this this label goeswith this checkbox, okay, okay.
And so the same thing could bedone here. You could have banner
four equals and then the ID thatreferences the image tag that
you that is the banner. Oh,okay, like it's a little more
complicated, but at least itgives you

Adam Curry (26:46):
easier in programming at the other end,

Dave Jones (26:49):
I think so. I think so, because you know you're
barring that, the barring that,the only other thing I can which
that seems a little convoluted,because the other
straightforward way to solvethis would just be to have
another attribute on the imagestag that says, like, use like,

(27:14):
use equal banner, or use equalart for the album art. And to
me, once you put that in, thenit solves the problems that
Russell is is having with thesemantics of it, where you have
now you actually have, you'resaying this is a banner.

Adam Curry (27:35):
From a feed creation standpoint, to me, it seems more
logical to say this is a banner.This is a promo video. This is a
headshot. You know, there's amillion different things I could
come up with,

Dave Jones (27:48):
yeah, I mean this, yeah, yeah, I think so. Because
then you could also, like, grabsorry. Then you could also tie
it to, if we do it this way, andyou just and you have the
ability to drop a generic imagebatch into the feed and then

(28:09):
give it and then sort of tie itto some use case that's pretty
powerful, versus just having athing that says banner, and
that's the only thing It canever do, is just be a banner,
okay? That, I mean, so it's likea

Adam Curry (28:27):
combo. It's like you have some attributes, but then
you also have equals banner,

Dave Jones (28:34):
yeah, yeah, attribute, like a purpose
equals, or above all, soundslike

Adam Curry (28:40):
something that we could argue about on GitHub for
a couple months.

Dave Jones (28:47):
I think, I think, as it stands now, the enhancement
stuff is is good enough on itsown to just adopt that. And I
think the banner thing is adifferent discussion. Okay, I
like adding an attribute becauseI think that solves everybody's
problem. An extra attribute, butI will let Russell tell me where

(29:11):
I'm wrong.

Adam Curry (29:13):
Okay, so can we table this for now?

Dave Jones (29:17):
We can. I want to say one more thing,

Adam Curry (29:20):
okay, Steve.

Dave Jones (29:23):
I mean, I'm creating an iPhone. I want to say one,
just one, just throw one morething in, and it's just another
thing about, about the naming.And that was another aspect of
what Russell was saying. Just togive a quick recap on my, on,
on, on, my opinion about namingthings is, I don't think for

(29:46):
developers that name, that namesof things matter, right? And
it's because, it's because nutis for the exact reason that
Dave Weiner says. And rules forstandard makers. These are all
English languages. Yes, Englishlanguage things some people
don't even read English, right?And they they still have the
ability to program. They justlearn what they look like, and

(30:07):
they know what that and theylearn the word when they need to
learn it. We also have otherthings that we that we deal with
on a daily basis, things likeJSON and what does that even
mean?

Adam Curry (30:17):
Thank you. Thank you. You know, good point.

Dave Jones (30:20):
This is all just stuff. Nobody knows what any of
this stuff is until they need toknow it, and then they go learn
it. So I just don't think it's aproblem, okay, all right. I
mean, I feel like, I feel likethat's enough to go on and then,
and then Nathan said he's gonna,he said he's gonna throw the

(30:40):
purpose attribute in there, intothe proposal, and then we can
follow we can just, like, pickthat up on GitHub. Okay,

Unknown (30:51):
excellent. Hey,
good work, guys.

Adam Curry (30:53):
It could work. We got through it. Or I'm closing
out the segment. There you go.And now it's time ending in
space. Done? Everybody have acigarette. It's all over. It's
done. There we go.

Dave Jones (31:05):
Now, you just kicked the ball back up in the air. Now
we're reopened it again.

Adam Curry (31:10):
Quick update, just on wallet stuff. Oscar sent us a
note. He says he'll have a anOAuth type demo this weekend.
Hopefully they say this weekend.I think he said this weekend?
Yeah, I think so. Chad,

Dave Jones (31:32):
don't do that. Don't say 60 minutes left. You're
stressing me out. I'm

Adam Curry (31:37):
moving things along here. It's like we got to stop
with the stupid namespace talk.I got other things to discuss
with you. So, yeah, I believe soOscar reached out and he says,
this weekend, we'll see whenit's ready. It's all good,
because that's a demo we're alllooking forward to. On that
note, do you have a final finalyet from Zebedee on

(31:58):
implementation? Because that'swhat we're going after here, all
these different custodialservices that have money
transmitter licenses, which, ofcourse, will you know
everything's still open. You canstill be sovereign, use your
own, your own thing, whateveryou want to do. That's not a
problem. This is to make iteasier for the worlds to get
past that 21,000 limit that weseem to have hit with,

(32:22):
podcasters using a value block.So have you heard from Zebedee?

Dave Jones (32:28):
Heard from Zach over there today, and he was just
asking if I had set up adeveloper account stuff yet,
which I have Okay, and he we'rejust gonna, he just wants to
help me fast track and get getall that so I can play with the
API. But I don't, I have notheard back from them whether
they finalized any of theirstuff they I think, I think what

(32:49):
is happening is there. I get theimpression that they're really
trying to figure out how to makethis work financially for
people, yeah, and for them, andfor themselves, oops, and for
themselves, yeah, becausenormally these, I think what
they normally deal with this isjust, this is all just my
impression from what, from whatI've heard them say is, I think

(33:13):
they've, they're just used todealing with more, like, like
game developers, and they have,like, a clear business like,
monetary plan, whereas, whereaspodcast app developers don't,
yeah,

Adam Curry (33:29):
well, we made that very clear to them. We said,
there's no money here, yeah,yeah, there's very little money.
Yeah,

Dave Jones (33:35):
okay, you know. But they're doing real work with all
this, you know. And they havereal calls, so I think they're
just trying to figure out how tomake it accessible to the
developers that, yeah, so that'sgoing to take some time. And
we're

Adam Curry (33:48):
asking, we're asking these parties to give us a, you
know, like a one sheet, so wecan just say, here's how you
implement it, which, of course,would come along with some
namespace additions, although wekind of have the, Ellen URL
name, I think that's all. Isthat already in the in the the
value tag, we already put thatin. Yeah, it's in. Okay. Then we

(34:11):
have staying on the wallets fora second. We had a chat with the
folks from light spark. Oh,

Dave Jones (34:17):
yeah. Do you want to like, Yeah,

Adam Curry (34:18):
I'll try and explain it. First of all, it was very
interesting, because it remindedme so much of calls I used to
make when I was trying to sellinternet, basically, to to
companies. And, yeah, I had, thesalesperson was just landed at
the airport. She's in the car onthe call, and then she runs into
the conference room, and the twoother guys are talking and and

(34:40):
then, you know, this is allgreat, and it's, it'll be ready
in a week or two, okay. But inessence, what lightspark has
done is they've created the sametype, what they call it a Yuma,
a universal money address, whichis compatible, from what I
understand, with L and URLaddresses. Now stop me if I'm.
Wrong and but the difference is,if you onboard with a Yuma

(35:05):
address, universal moneyaddress, then you can
immediately connect it to yourfinancial institution. And they
have in America, they have Bankof America Chase, and they have
some, some outfit in Brazil, andyou know, that's part of their
business, is onboarding. And thereason why is they're sitting on
top of, I forget the name of thewhat was the name of zero hash?

(35:29):
Zero hash? Yeah. So they'resitting on top of zero hash. So
there is a KYC process, but Ithink it'll probably be a little
less dorky, since they're tryingto make this, professionalize
this for people, it'll be alittle less dorky than than some
of the existing Bitcoin KYCprocesses are. It'll probably be

(35:51):
the same, but it just might beslicker,

Dave Jones (35:54):
something where you have to send a picture of
yourself from your phone holdinga sign that says, My name is
Dave Jones, yeah, stuff

Adam Curry (35:59):
like that, exactly. So the the whole flow is your
financial institution throughplaid into what's that thing
called, their

Unknown (36:13):
RTP? No,

Adam Curry (36:14):
you just meant, yeah, but you just mentioned 00,
hash, and then into the Yuma,and then they're doing the
transfer over lightning and thenthe other end. Of course, it can
go to a lightning address, or itcan go into into another Yuma
address, which then reverses theflow and goes back up and

(36:35):
eventually into your financialinstitution. So you can just
say, I want to send a Euro, Iwant to send $1 I want to send
X, Y or Z, and it'll just makeit to the other end with minimal
fees that we're talking about0.8% of the transaction, and

(36:56):
which I think is another finesolution. A lot of people won't
like it because, you know, ofthe KYC, etc,

Dave Jones (37:03):
but the you can always roll your own,

Adam Curry (37:06):
yeah, exactly. That's what I like, because it
interrupts with everything else.So it would be a very easy
option. And we asked for themfor the same, you know, can you
give us a and they said theywould have some kind of OAuth
solution coming in a month. Youknow, whatever these things, I'm
not expecting anything beforenext year, but they always take

(37:27):
longer than Yeah, develop it.Hello, but I like it because,
you know, now we're getting to aplace where you make it a lot
more accessible for people tojust say, Okay, so now I can
hook this up. I go to, what isit? Yuma.me, I register an

(37:48):
address, and then I do my my KYCsong and dance, and then I
connect it straight to my mydebit card, to my bank account,
and I can start sending if I'min America dollars, if I'm in
Australia dollars, althoughsignificantly worth less in
Europe, in the EU, euros. And Ithink that would be, that's

(38:09):
great. I think it's fantastic. Imean, obviously a lot of people
going to push back, oh, allkinds of Yes, yes, there's
financial stuff in there, butit's all compatible with the
sovereign state of the LightningNetwork.

Dave Jones (38:22):
Well, my So, my understanding was the flow would
be something like this would beyou, you would so, so a Yuma
looks like it looks like anemail address, like a lightning
address, except it has a littledollar sign in the beginning.
That's the first character,right, right? That's how you
know it's a Yuma, a universalmoney address. And so the Yuma

(38:45):
thing, like, you would go toYuma, not me, and then you would
go through a process like you dowith like, plaid.

Adam Curry (38:54):
In fact, they're literally using plaid. Yeah,
they're

Dave Jones (38:57):
using plaid to associate the universal money
address with a bank account, andthen you have this second step
in what they showed us, where itprompts you to like, what do you
want to be able to do with this?With this connection? Do you
want it to be able to deductfunds? Credit funds? Yeah.

(39:20):
Permission, permissions. Thatpermissions, yeah. I mean, just
like you do with plaid. Well,like Venmo.

Adam Curry (39:25):
It's like connecting it to Venmo. It's the same thing
as connecting PayPal or Venmo.And remember, PayPal was also
now saying that they're going tostart accepting bitcoin and
passing it right through inFiat. I don't know if they're
going to do lightning, but Ithink it's pretty fair to say
everyone's moving in thisdirection.

Dave Jones (39:43):
Everybody is that own chain that's on chain. I
don't

Adam Curry (39:47):
know on chain for sure, but they can't be
competitive without offering alightning solution. Everyone's
offering lightning now all theexchanges offer lightning, you
know, up to certain number.Ounce, obviously, for liquidity
issues, if they want, if theywant to be competitive. PayPal
will also offer lightning, whichwill and because it's passed

(40:12):
through into Fiat, that willfinally put no agenda on the V
for V train, because Dvorak isokay with it,

Dave Jones (40:20):
like I haven't seen any No, there's

Adam Curry (40:22):
no announcement yet. No, no, there's no announcement.
Yeah, okay, okay. They'recalling their their partners
because they're okay, becausethey're also Yeah. And there's
two reasons they called. One is,hey, we're going through a whole
new link scheme, and pretty soonall your old links will be dead.
Yay. Please fix something thatwasn't broke.

Dave Jones (40:45):
What? Why would you ever No, I don't, no

Adam Curry (40:49):
problem. It's, it's, it's baffling to me. So they're
gonna train, they're gonna trainus on what to do. You know, hey,
we're gonna, you know, it'slike, like, I'll be training.
We're gonna onboard you into thenew system, so the old system
apparently will break.

Dave Jones (41:07):
That's great. Yes, yeah. Okay, so you, I guess the
idea there would be that youwould get a Bitcoin, some sort
of Bitcoin receiving address, awallet address, and then
anything that comes into thatwallet just immediately shows up
in your PayPal balance. Correct,correct, correct. See, okay, so

(41:29):
you know, we can do own chaineasily with the value block,
yeah,

Adam Curry (41:34):
but I'm telling you, we don't. Yes, we could. If

Dave Jones (41:39):
I'm saying like that, that should be an option.
Because, okay, yeah, it takes afew it takes a little bit, it
takes a few minutes. Can take acouple hours to verify
sometimes. But, I mean, I'm notagainst it. I'm not against you
know that if, if it comes toadoption, I mean, own chain, to
me, is fine, if it gets over theadoption threshold.

Adam Curry (42:06):
Eric PP is already scratching his head about, what
do I do with helipad now

Unknown (42:12):
I'm screwed.

Adam Curry (42:13):
Well, I mean, you know, fees and there's a lot of
stuff to consider timingbecause, yeah. I mean, depending
on what you put in your your Vbite fee, you know, is it always
going to be fastest? Will youget an option, you know, to say,
Well, it's, you know, it's 60,you know, 60 SATs per V byte

(42:35):
right now. No, please don't sendit this moment. You know,
there's all kinds of things totake into account there, but it
can be an option for sure. Yeah,

Dave Jones (42:45):
I mean, it's, in fact, I

Adam Curry (42:46):
would put that under the funding tag.

Dave Jones (42:50):
That's where I'd put that the funding tag, yeah,
yeah, yeah. I think you'reright. I think you're right.
That's better you put it underthe funding tag and because then
you can say, Okay, I'm gonnasend you. I'm gonna send you
five grand.

Adam Curry (43:03):
Yes, well, this is Dvorak's hope. He's like, Yeah,
we can take Bitcoin. There'salways gonna be someone who's
gonna send us a whole Bitcoin.Say, Okay, John, yeah, that's
fine. It's gonna happen. Hehasn't gotten into the micro
payment headspace yet, but

Dave Jones (43:17):
we'll work on him. He doesn't understand Bitcoin
culture.

Adam Curry (43:20):
No, no, he doesn't

Dave Jones (43:23):
that ain't happening.

Adam Curry (43:28):
Then I had a preliminary call with clicks, C,
l, i, x, and we're havinganother call on Tuesday, and I'm
we're looking at them asbasically a podcast app. They
have a this is a whole bunch ofex TiVo guys who and TV guide
people, and they understand howto promote stuff. So it'd be

(43:50):
discovery type app. And the coolthing about that is they're in
600,000 hotel rooms, and sowe're gonna have a call and see
if, see if we can get them data.I showed them the tiles, dot pod
ping.org, and their, their,their minds were, like, blown.
Like, what? So, oh, yeah, it'slike, three podcasts a second

(44:11):
are updating here. Like, what?What now,

Dave Jones (44:14):
yeah, it was pod to Russell and pod two. They're
also just started firing up podpings. So cool. Ping is still
growing, and, and, and Alex'spod ping, Damon just keeps
clicking along about let it runfor, I guess, a week now. Nice.
This thing's solid as a rock.That's in rust.

Adam Curry (44:35):
That's the rust deal. It's

Dave Jones (44:36):
in Russ, yeah. And he's, he's, he's gonna add, he's
adding a bunch of features.He's, hasn't opened it. He has
not opened up the repo yet, buthe's going to, once he fills
this it's solid. And one of thefeatures he's adding is, is a
direct to object storage, so youcould store these things, but
yeah, with it'll just writestraight to s3

Adam Curry (44:56):
in the in the folder structure, right? Year, Month,
Day. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, Ionly have one other thing, but
we can. It's a, what we'retalking about, you know, the
specialized platform players,stuff. I've had some more
thoughts on that. But do youwant to do the notebook LM stuff

(45:18):
first?

Dave Jones (45:19):
I mean, I didn't. I mean, I don't have a lot on
that. I was just like, I don't,I've been, I guess the reason I
threw it on my on my notes, isbecause I've been. I had a
reason to resurrect my midjourney account the other day,
because I was just, you

Adam Curry (45:35):
were looking, you needed, you needed an image, and
so you turned to computergenerated imagery. CGI, not AI,
CGI.

Dave Jones (45:44):
That turned to CGI. I needed a, I needed a decent
logo for this side project thatwe're doing. Because I just, I'm
like, I can't look at this pieceof crap anymore.

Unknown (45:56):
I saw it,

Dave Jones (45:58):
yeah, and so I So, I was like, Okay, well, I started
playing around with different,you know, with different you
know, with different things andthe it just, it just struck me
how sort of crazy all this is.Did you? Did you? But, like, as
you use it, you realize you seeentropy at work. Entropy is you,

(46:20):
yeah, like the idea, I thinkit's, was it the second, second
law of thermodynamics, all, allsystems run down, you know, all
energy goes, goes towards zero.It's the is, you could, you can,
you can extract, sort of likeextrapolate from that, this
idea, that entropy, is that ideathat all things go from order to

(46:44):
chaos?

Adam Curry (46:46):
Okay? Yes.

Dave Jones (46:49):
So like you can, you can say, you know, if you leave,
if you leave your car sitting onthe road and never touch it,
1000 years from now, it's, it'sgoing to be just a pile of rust.
Yes, everything, everythingruns, all systems is eventually
run down. And so you can justsee this. You can see this whole

(47:13):
process at work with thesegenerative AI tools, the only
thing keeping them from justdying of their own entropy is
the fact that they're beingguard, railed and propped up by
people. Yes, things to them,

Adam Curry (47:34):
yes, yeah, that's true. So

Dave Jones (47:37):
like the A good example that I heard a long time
ago was, and this is, this is a,this is sort of an argument
against against evolution,meaning an evolution that term
being defined as ascent throughmodification, not not descent,

(48:01):
ascent, so that you getprogressively more and more
complicated organisms that cando more and more things through
a process of evolutionaryascent, right? But

Adam Curry (48:14):
it's, it's devolute, devolizing is devotee is going
down,

Dave Jones (48:20):
yeah. And the the argument against that is,
imagine you have an airplane,and stacked in that airplane,
you have 50,000 index cards,yeah. And you push all those
index cards out of the plane,and somehow between 20,000 feet
and the ground, if they allorganize themselves to spell out

(48:45):
Adam curry on the on theinterstate. Okay, that we all
know instinctively, that thatwould never happen, you know.
But the the evolutionaryargument is, oh, well, you just
need to give it more time. Soinstead of at 20,000 feet, you
go up to 35,000 feet.

Adam Curry (49:03):
Yeah, yeah. You just put more more data centers in,
more power, more chips, morenuke power, yeah. Or

Dave Jones (49:11):
you just do it more times. Instead of doing it once.
You do, you know, you you do theplain index card thing 2 billion
times. Well, it doesn't matterhow many times you do it, you're
never going to get you're nevergoing to get a quote from
Shakespeare out of index cardsfalling on the ground from
20,000 feet. It's just notbecause all systems run down. We
just know that this is the case.And that's the way this works,

(49:36):
with with with generative AI aswell, like every time you hit
that. So there's this button onmid journey where, like, you put
in your prompt, and most of thetime, like out of the gate, like
out of your first prompt, youkind of get something decent,
like, it's pretty it's prettygood, obviously, because it's

(49:57):
been trained on, on

Adam Curry (49:58):
real art. You know. Oh, yeah, definitely,
definitely, it's

Dave Jones (50:02):
been trained on other people's effort, you know.
So you get something prettygood, but then you have these
little buttons so you get likefour, you get a quad matrix that
has like four quadrants in it,1234, and you say, Okay, I want
this quadrant three. I like thisimage. So give me variations of
this image so you can say veryand it'll run it back through

(50:25):
the model again and try to comeup with variants of this. The
more times you keep doing that,this thing gets worse and worse
and worse, right? Like it'snever better than the first time
you did it. And so I wasthinking that you really only
get one shot at this wholething, because, you know, we

(50:50):
talked about model collapsebefore, where you train, it's
sort of, yeah, it's eating itsown dog food. And it starts to,
sort of like these, theselanguage models, or these
generative models, begin toincestuously in incorporate
their own output into their intotheir training,

Adam Curry (51:09):
right? Yeah, incestuously is the right term,
but you get very weak childrenthat can't walk,

Dave Jones (51:15):
right, right? And so this, this whole thing reminded
me of a discussion I think Iheard on ATP where in and I've I
ended up finding it on Tom'sHardware, where they were
taught, where Apple Appleintelligence, the forthcoming

(51:35):
Apple intelligence, somebodyleaked the prompts that they're
using under the covers. Yeah. Sofor all, for each one of these
use cases, like, they have oneuse case that says apple. It's
in Apple photos where you cansay, you know, Hey, Siri, tell
me a story from these photos.And it'll, it'll, like, create

(52:00):
us this story with a music, withmusic and all this kind of stuff
that goes with your photos.Well, the underlying prompt that
does that they somebody found itin the bay in the beta. They
reverse engineered the code andfound the prompt and under the
covers. What Apple is doing isthey're just sending a textual
prompt to the local model underthe under the covers, and the

(52:24):
the the the thing they're sent,the prompt they're sending to
the local model on device, isthis. Here are the story
guidelines you must obey. Yeah.The story should be about the
intent of the user. The storyshould contain a clear arc. The
story should be diverse. Thatis, do not overly focus the

(52:45):
entire story on one veryspecific theme or trade. Do not
write a story that is religious,political, harmful, violent,
sexual ability or any waynegative, sad or provocative.
But you know, what if? What ifyou

Adam Curry (53:02):
So, those are the those. Those are the pre
prompts. That's the the setupwhere you set the model up for
the input from the user.

Dave Jones (53:10):
Yes, exactly. And so basically, you're telling the
model ahead of time you you'renot allowed to do any, to do
anything that is to write thestory that is religious. What,
if you, what, if you're a Muslimand you went to Mecca,

Adam Curry (53:25):
no mecca for you,

Dave Jones (53:27):
should I add a lug man? Like, sorry, I mean, what
is he gonna say? Is it gonnasay? Like, oh, the sand was
beautiful on this trip. Like,what is it gonna say? You know,
it's just also this is also thisin this goes back to this, like
you're, you're just trying toput guardrails, yeah, yeah, on

(53:49):
this, on on a, on a process thatis naturally tied intricately
to, to an intro to an entropicprocess. And you're trying to
keep it propped up by

Adam Curry (54:05):
doing that, so not letting it devolve by keeping
the guardrails

Dave Jones (54:09):
in place. And there's another, there's another
prompt that says, I

Adam Curry (54:13):
gotta find this article, by the way, you got to
send that to me. Yeah, I'll

Dave Jones (54:16):
send it to you. There's another, another prompt.
This says, um, was Oh. It says,that's what it is. It says, do
not produce. It gives a wholebunch of parameters. Here's
what, here's what I want you todo. And at the end of it, it
says, Please give me validplease make the output valid

(54:39):
JSON. Do not use bad JSON. Whatdoes that mean? This is the
point we've come to, wherewe're, we're, you know, like
we're saying we're having totell the computer don't give me
what I don't want. I mean, thisis just so this all feels very
silly. Wow.

Unknown (54:57):
Wow.

Dave Jones (54:59):
Um. Well, have you heard, have you heard dead
internet theory? Do you knowthis? Yes, yes,

Adam Curry (55:04):
where we're only talking to bots at the end of
the day, and there's no one realanymore.

Dave Jones (55:09):
I mean, I don't think that's very crazy.

Adam Curry (55:13):
No, I think we're already there to a degree. I see
it all the time on x. I'm like,Okay, that's a bot, that's a
bot, that's a bot. Yeah,anything username with this
whole string of numberssuspicious? You're probably a
bot

Dave Jones (55:30):
in the I think, I think that the thing I didn't
realize about that whole theory,or whatever you want to call it,
is that supposedly they're like,part of the theory is that this
all happened, like, cross thetipping point in like 2016 there
was, like this date where, whereit became. There was more bots

(55:50):
online, yeah, interacting witheach other than humans. And then
when I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah, Ican see that. I bet you that's

Adam Curry (55:59):
true. To take it to podcasting. So comics, your
blogger through the transcriptfrom the most recent no agenda
episode into notebook LM andthose two voices, the only
voices they have apparentlycreated a summary of that
episode, which was actuallyquite interesting. It shows a
three and a half hour episode,they created a eight minute

(56:22):
summary, and there was somereally funny mistakes in there.
But in general, it's like, well,you know, if you want to hear a
summary of what we talked about,it was, by the way, is very
complimentary. Like, these guysare great, you know, they
really, they don't, they don'tjust take everything at face
value, you know. Okay, so it wasnice to kind of get that

(56:44):
evaluation, and I can see, I cansee where people will listen to
the in fact, there's a serviceout there that someone sent me
called, what is it? Called theauto generated podcast, the
automated daily.com so hecreates, I think, four or five
different podcasts. It's allautomated every single day,

(57:06):
general news, tech news, AInews, Hacker News, and it
creates, out of the links fromsome sources, it creates a
podcast with this all the samevoice. But you know, honestly,
just listening to that for fourminutes. And if you just want to
be informed about a topic, andjust want to listen to it, it's,

(57:27):
it's actually not that bad. Butyou know, you it's just because
someone's reading it to me, itdoes some editorializing and
makes some choices about, youknow, if something is good bad
on edge out there, you know, itmakes some some assumptions and
puts that in. But, you know, tome, it's like, that's not why

(57:50):
I'm listening to podcasts. Youknow, I still, I mean, people
just want to consumeinformation. And there's a lot
of people who just want by theif you, if you listen to
podcasts at 1.5 speed. You'regoing to love these AI voices.
It's perfect for you. You'regoing to flood your brain with
shit. Enjoy fun, yeah. But Ithink it's only better, because,

(58:11):
you know, personality andhumanity people always recognize
that, they always do, andthey're going to want that and
value that more. But I think wecan, we can look forward to a
lot of automated podcasts fromsources that will, that will
feed people information. So youlisten to the notebook, LM,

(58:33):
summary, eight minute summary ofthe no agenda podcast like, oh,
you know, okay, I know what theytalked about.

Dave Jones (58:41):
Do you have that? Can you play it? Yeah? CSP,

Adam Curry (58:44):
I haven't heard this, yeah. CSB, posted it. Hold
on a second, if

Dave Jones (58:47):
you played it yesterday on no agenda, no, no,
no,

Adam Curry (58:50):
no, no. John actually said he wanted to hear
more of those wacky podcasts. Isaid, Really, you want to hear
more of that? Here we go. Allright, everyone

Unknown (58:59):
buckle up, because today we're really diving deep
into something pretty wild. Imean, this sounds like it could
be straight out of a spy movie,but sadly, it's the real deal.
Sounds intriguing. What's thetopic today? We're talking
asymmetrical warfare, but notthe kind you typically expect.
More along the lines of

Dave Jones (59:18):
this is pretty interesting, because you can
hear breath.

Adam Curry (59:22):
Oh yeah, no, they've got UMS in there. No, the voices
are well done. I'm impressedwith the voices, although this
back and forth. Now, it's likein a podcast, you have to have
someone filling every singlespace with, yeah, okay, yeah,
interesting. Oh yeah, twogadgets

Unknown (59:37):
and international intrigue, exploding gadgets. Now
that's something you don't hearevery day. You got that right?
We're taking a deep dive into arecent episode of this. You

Adam Curry (59:46):
got that right? Bob, yeah. Listen,

Unknown (59:50):
listen for a second cast. Episode 1696, to be
precise. Adam curry and John CDvorak, by

Adam Curry (59:56):
the way, perfect pronunciation of Dvorak that
I've not. Ever heard that in anAI so far,

Unknown (01:00:01):
you know those guys who can sniff out a media narrative
from a mile away? Well,

Adam Curry (01:00:05):
yeah, I know them. Oh yeah, I know them. They could
sniff out a media narrative froma mile away.

Dave Jones (01:00:11):
Now, where did they get that from? Well,

that's what's interesting, is how you know, is
it, obviously, it's from wordsand phrases. That's why I said
they're they're generally quitepositive, got their fingers

Unknown (01:00:21):
on the pulse of what's really going on, even if it's a
little out there. Sometimes.
What did they unearth this time?Well, this episode aired on
September 19, 2024 and let metell you, it's been on my mind
ever since. It all starts withsome really strange

you need a life

that I could do with that. Okay, so have you ever
used GarageBand? Yeah, sure.Okay, so you know how, in the in
the drummer, the the virtualdrummer, how you can dial it up
from like a one to 10 of howmuch you want that guy to freak
out and play? Phil, yes, betweenthose, that's

exactly what it is. Is that? Algo Yes. Phillip,

we need this.

But you know, so it doesn't give you any of the
nuance, any of the details,certainly none of the humor.
Because I know that. I know thatthere's humor in our show, yeah,
but I can see where we have alarge segment of the population
and they'll get bored of it, butwho are just starve for info,

(01:01:22):
feed me information. That's whypeople listen at 1.5 they want
to get more information more. Sowe listen to another podcast,
listen more and listen I needmore. Need more and more, and
they're going to explode as infogluttony. Info gluttony. That's
it. It's really what it is.Information, gluttony, gluttony.

There we go. The reason, the reason I, you know,
and you know what those are thesame people. I think that, think
along the lines of what causedme to originally bring this,
bring this up about the entropyaspect, is because I think, and
I think nerds fall victim tothis. All all of us do in the

(01:02:01):
nerd space is nerd space? Nerdspace is we? We fall victim to
this idea that the more as longas the algorithm is good, then
the more information you feed toit, the better the output that
is not correct, right, the morethe more youth, the more

(01:02:24):
information is just like moreweather or more of anything, the
more of it you have, doesn'tproduce better outcomes. It
produces more entropy, the moreenergy you put in, the more
there is, the more, the higherthe fall off. So it's just like

(01:02:47):
going taking that airplane fullof index cards and going higher
in the air, what you're going toget is not a higher likelihood
of a good outcome. You're goingto get a higher likelihood of
broader chaos. And I think wejust fall victim to that sort of
thinking, because we think that,because I think we're lulled

(01:03:08):
into this from when we see AIdoing what it's doing, and it
produces impressive resultssometimes, but we think it's
because we fed it so much morevolume of information that it
got quote, unquote smarter,yeah, but what happened is the
guard rails got tighter, or theinformation was actually reduced

(01:03:31):
to a smaller set where it hadless to contend with. I just
don't I think this whole ideathat that more gets you back,
gets you better results, isjust, I think it's fit from a
physics standpoint and ametaphysics standpoint, it's
just not true, like the the moreinformation. Let's say that

(01:03:53):
Twitter, instead of, I don'tknow what, how many posts it's
got at any given time. Let's,let's say 150 billion posts, the
idea that instead of, if it had,instead of 150 million,

300 billion, it would be that much better. It
did,

the search somehow would be better. Yeah, no,
that's not true. It would beworse. Yeah. This same with
podcasting. If, if you just hadmore podcasts, you would have
better, like, be able to find weknow this is not true. It makes
everything harder, not better.Yeah,

so I want to talk about that because I have some
thoughts about our previousconversation, and I'm just
looking at the clock becauseeveryone's all all jacked up and
nervous about having to get youout on time. It's, it's very
it's very unnerving. It reallyis. You know, people are posting
only 30 minutes left. Oh my god.We got to hurry up. Got to move
this along. Got to get thistrain. So I also want to play a

(01:04:49):
song. It's a short song. It's areal short song. Only 247, go,
go, go. We got to get the songgoing. I was on the 33rd episode
of into the doorful verseearlier. Week, which was
fantastic. I love those guys.And then they played me two
versions of a song, and I had tochoose which one I like better,
which like, Dude, can you putsomeone on the spot? That's

(01:05:11):
that's really, really hard todo, but they sir, TJ, the
raffle. Did get it posted up,and everything's good in time
for the board meeting. So I wantto make sure that we play it
because it is a banger. Andremember, you can boost these
songs live as we're doingeverything here in the
boardroom, or go back and boostthem on your modern podcast up.

(01:05:33):
Here's the door fulls. This isdisco swag on podcasting 2.0

Unknown (01:05:40):
he was fighting
for you make the first move, butIt's different with you, around

(01:06:09):
your waist don't cost it. I canchase. Show me what I need to.
Show me you'll be inside. Takethe ball right. Show me what I

(01:06:32):
miss
before I mess with you. With meslow and I'll take you where you
want to

(01:07:02):
go? Show me what you got, showme what you got. Girl, show me
what you got. Show me what yougot. Girl, show me what you got.
You God,

(01:07:37):
would you say? Hand.

Show me it darfels, disco, swag, and that's what I
thought first, as well.Boardroom, I thought, wow,
that's like a Bruno Mars song.

Is that TJ singing?

No, I don't think so. Whoa. What happened? No,
that's sir Spencer is boosting.He boosted 33,333

No, well, you hit the magic number. Yeah.

They had another less busy mix, which I thought
sounded too much like BrunoMars, but I would recommend
Bruno Mars record this song. Ohyeah, that's great. Get the,
yeah, that's what. That wouldput some coin in their pocket,

but you had, but he has to only accept Bitcoin,
yeah? Well, obviously,

okay, we don't have a lot of time.

This is, this sucks. No, I hate this. What's okay,
never pre announce this again.

Well, but it would be in the back of my mind
anyway. You know, you blew yourwad on on images.

Well, I mean, how could you not

Whoa, hello. This penny dropped on that one
because I was listening to PWRpod news weekly review, power,
and so you haven't heard it yet?No, no. But so they were talking
about podcast portals, and whichis kind of what we were talking
about, you know, on the lastshow. And it was based upon a

(01:09:34):
quote from Rachel Maddow, and Ilike that. It's based on a quote
from Rachel Maddow, because I'mnot a fan, really not a fan, but
that kind of pushes me to thinkabout, okay, how can we make
something that Rachel Maddowwould like? And I'll just repeat
her statement in the HollywoodReporter when asked about what's
the problem with podcasting, andshe said, None of the apps are

(01:09:57):
great. We don't just needcuration. And charts, we need
rational organization and amerit, meritocratic way for the
best and most relevant shows andepisodes to circulate
efficiently. It's hard for me tounderstand why we're still
saddled with such uniformlyclunky, unintuitive user
interfaces at this point. Now, Ido not believe that she actually

(01:10:21):
wants a merit, meritocratic wayfor the best, the most well, the
best shows to pop up, because ifTucker Carlson popped up, she'd
throw up on her podcast app. And

none of us actually want that. We all, none of us
want meritocracy. We want wewant our stuff exactly, exactly.

And, you know, all the big apps, you know, I'm sure
Spotify tries to do this. Youknow, YouTube obviously has
their recommendation engine. Noone within the sound of my voice
will ever be able to create aper user algo that's running non
stop and be able to afford it.And, you know, and somehow
magically put things in theright place. But as I was saying

(01:11:04):
about podcast apps, maybe it'stime for some apps. Maybe you
keep your existing app, maybeyou make a second version, which
means you can keep the samebasic code base. But based on my
general feeling, the future ofmedia is small. Is it not an
idea that some podcast appsspecialize now you still have

(01:11:27):
everything available. But whywouldn't just like, you know,
all cars get you from A to B,yet, lots of people buy Ferraris
for certain reasons. Some peoplebuy electric vehicles. I mean,
there's all different. They allhave the same basic
functionality, and you can putpeople in it and take them
somewhere, people and stuff,just like there's lots of cable
channels for different things.We've got sports channels. Is it

(01:11:51):
not an idea to build an apparound a community? It can be
location as well, by the way, oraround a genre, and really try
and build that out to delightone segment of the audience. And
I'm going back to fountain, theyhave chosen as a very successful

(01:12:16):
app. They have chosen Nasser andBitcoin, and that choice has
alienated a certain percentageof people, but it has delighted
another segment of people,

same with true fans that they've chosen specific to
focus on, on pay, micropayments, which has alienated
some people, but delightedothers.

Wavelake, they have an app which is, for all intents
and purposes, a podcast app, butthey really feature music. Ellen
beats is a podcast app thatfeatures music and podcasts that
play music you see where I'mgoing, so if your interest is in

(01:13:02):
sports, why not have an app thathighlights sports? Podcasts, you
know, make some bold decisions.Recommend it has to be something
you're interested in that's adeveloper. Everyone has an
interest. So if it's technology,wow, I think I would, I would
even open up a separate app,just to get to a technology

(01:13:26):
offering that says, hey, thelatest episode of ATP is out.
And I'd like to know who, who islistening to that, and what
those people have to say. Youknow, this is where maybe the
Sam's activity streams come intoplay. Make that the entrance
into your app, and people willprobably use it for other
podcasts as well. But ingeneral, people listen to a

(01:13:50):
certain kind of podcasts, and itmay not be a bad idea to create.
You know, Rachel Maddow, shereally wants an app that
features her, features a wholebunch of libtards. I'm sorry,
liberals, you know, you don'twant to, you don't you want to
suppress certain things, but youwant to build a community just

(01:14:12):
like, like mastodon. I have apodcast index, dot, social
login, and I actually block awhole bunch of others. In fact,
I block some specific that arerelated to no agenda. I don't
want people posting to me aboutno agenda stuff on podcast
index, dot social. I have adifferent Mastodon for that, and

(01:14:33):
I go and I visit both equallyevery single day. And, you know,
depending on my mood, it seemslike such a logical step for
someone to make, because we haveenough boxy cars. We've all got
a car, and it looks a littledifferent on the outside, but
it's not really appealing to meto the kind kind of vehicle I

(01:14:55):
want to be seen in and seen asusing. Does that. Makes sense?

Yeah. So you're, you could, I'm trying to think about
this in like a on the groundterm, like, if somebody makes a
podcast app, they could thenmake instead of having one app,
let's say they did somethingcrazy and made five apps, each

(01:15:22):
with a specific focus.

Well, why make five? Why make one that, you know
something about everybody hasthat. That's the mistake, you
know, I think, okay, if therewas a, let's keep it very small
and very simple. If there was apodcast app that only that you
can get anything you want in it.Okay, you can search and you can
subscribe to anything you want.But when I open that up, it's

(01:15:47):
saying, Wow, the latest upbeatsjust dropped. Here's a special
project that, oh curry is doinganother boostagram ball. Here's
a special, curated AinsleyCostello album that is, you
know, detox radio, or whateverit's called, focuses on music

(01:16:08):
podcasts that have value forvalue music. I would open that
specifically for all therecommendations and all the
beauty that's in there. Nowmaybe down and it should
federate with some other app,you know, the the sports app. So
I could still get user stuff,but make it a community based

(01:16:29):
app for a particular topic orgenre or something. You know, we
all use different apps, andpeople who you people who use
podcast, they're listening Ilike listening to Lex Fridman,
Joe Rogan, you know, long formpodcast. Make it that. Here's
the latest debt guest. Here'swho's coming up. You know what

(01:16:50):
I'm saying?

I remember back. I remember back a long time ago. I
don't even remember what yearthis would have been, maybe, I
don't know it was. It had tobeen very early in podcasting.
You had, you had radiopersonalities like Rush

(01:17:12):
Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, thesekind, these types. And what they
did was they had their each hadtheir own app, and you would,
you would install the app. And,I mean, it was just a podcast
app, yeah, but it was their app,and you would install the app,
and that's how you listened totheir show, yes, if you wanted

(01:17:34):
to listen to it on your phone orwhatever, right? Or on their
website, you know, that kind ofthing. And so this, like, there
we've, kind of, we've, we'velost that idea. And I think it
made a lot of sense to lose thatidea, because it's like, well, I
don't want to have to go to fivedifferent places to listen to

(01:17:54):
five different things. But then,since we lost that idea, we also
lost some of of the benefits ofthat

well, without disclosing because it's too
early yet, the project we'reworking on, we're doing exactly
that. We're doing exactly what Idescribed on a local basis.
Would you agree? Oh, for sure.Okay, it's delighting me. It's

(01:18:24):
delighting me. I'm like, This isso cool. You know, there's, this
is an area that I have interestin, and I'm looking at all these
podcasts, and there's curationgoing on. There's people
recommending things to me,entities and and I'm delighted
in it and and I know when I wantwhen I'm in this mode, which is

(01:18:46):
often, I'll, I'll use this app,which in this case is, you know,
it's for all intents andpurposes, an app. I'm just
saying that we have all theseapps, and they're all doing the
same thing with some variationsof style and look, but it's an
inbox, and I've already beenthrough my my issues on that. I
think it's time. And here'ssomeone literally saying, How

(01:19:11):
come I can't have an app thatbasically shows my stuff?
Because I'm Rachel Maddow, and Iwant relevant stuff and
episodes, and also episodes, notjust, here's another podcast,
usually, oh, this is the latecurated they're looking for
someone who's into it to createa universe that, yes, you'd need

(01:19:33):
some meritocracy. But do youreally, I mean someone, if
you're a developer and you havea if you have a hobby, you know,
a genre or something that you'reinterested in, why not create an
app that highlights that stuffyou're already liking it so you
will be perfectly suited

to that's Go ahead. That's like, I. Uh, it, it's
like that idea we talked about afew minutes ago, where it the
idea that you put more, you makemore available, you put more in,
you get better results out.Sometimes that's in like, that's
just not the case. Like an appand like so true, true fans.

(01:20:18):
When true fans launched, he, hemade a decision to launch, I
think, with, like, Was it like5000 podcasts or something like
that? Was a very small numberinitially, at the very at the
beginning. And there wassomething really refreshing
about that

I can see, I can see true fans being fans. Okay, so I
want to be a fan, and in thiscase of artists, because Sam's
got concert tickets and merchand all this stuff, focus on
that. Focus only on that. Be, beexcel in that area. And people

(01:20:53):
can always, you can always, Ialso want to subscribe to, you
know, to Tucker Carlson, okay,fine. You can do that. But
getting getting something thatexcites people to use it, I
think they will flock to apodcast like that. If there was
a podcast app that only showedvideo podcasts, nothing else, I

(01:21:15):
would probably use like, Oh,this is where I get my videos.

Oh, yeah, for sure, that's yeah. I mean, like
medium, medium centric podcastapps, like we only get, we only
do music,

yeah. How about audio books? I mean, there's
nothing that says you can't justhave an audio book podcast app.
Why not? What do you got tolose?

I agree, backslay. I think I think

backslash.

So I agree. I like, I like, yeah, no, I think this
is I think this is good. Weevery something has to break the
mold, I think, because we'vejust got so many apps that look
the same and, and I think, Ithink it's, you know, Oscar did

(01:22:12):
something different, you know,by going all in on on the
Bitcoin and Oscar side ofThings, true fans did something
different with the PWA andactivity pub and all these kinds
of things. Like, there's,there's some of I think if
you're, if you're wanting tobreak into some of these
incumbent areas, I think youjust have to do something

(01:22:35):
different. Well, you know,because people are habitual,
people just are less. Yes, yes.If nothing changes, to break you
out of that mental model, if youdon't see a different thing,
you're just going to keepplugging away with the same
thing. Pocket Cast, overcast,Apple podcast,

yes, yes, yes. And so when you So, Rachel Maddow is
very liberal, left politicaltalk. So you don't just want to
do an MSNBC app. You want to doall kinds of liberal left
political talk and run your ownalgo on what or put your own
personality into it, whateveryou want to bubble to the top,

(01:23:15):
you know, and have your users beable to create playlists and of
episodes and all kinds of thingsthat they and you will get a big
audience, I think, much biggerthan I'm here, everything for
everybody. App,

if somebody created the, if somebody created today,
a podcast app that was calledPro prog, prog casts, you know,
there was all a bunch ofprogressive liberal shows, and

(01:23:50):
that's all it was. And theyreleased that on the App Store.
They would, it would beimmediately successful. Yes, you
could have 5 million downloadswithin six months, because
that's, it's like, that's whereyou're breaking the mold, and
you're and you're going, you'relean, you're sort of like

(01:24:10):
leaning towards this, this thingthat is our, that people are, I
think, okay, maybe that's partof maybe that's what it is.
Maybe it's that culture is goingin these certain directions,
like it's been going, you know,like, obviously, the political
divides have been gettingstarker that, you know, if it's

(01:24:31):
a spectrum for if it's even aspectrum, I don't think it is.
But if it's a left, rightspectrum, you know, you got
people are going harder left,harder right. It could be just
because they're trying to definethey're trying to carve out
their their place in all this,in all of this, in the midst of
an ocean of information thatthat just seems to be drowning

(01:24:56):
them. And so they're like, Okay,I'm hard left. It could just be
a mental response, apsychological response, to say,
I need space. I'm, I'm gonna setup my camp over here in this
segment of of the social ofsocial society, because it's too

(01:25:18):
big. It's too much. I'm gettinginundated all the time. And I
need, I need a I need space.And, you know, like, because
we're all carving out thesepieces of the of the of the
world for ourselves. And if yousort of, sort of lean toward
that with a podcast app and say,Okay, well, you're, you're
hanging out of you're hangingout over here, well, here's this

(01:25:40):
thing. Some people take thatrefuge in sports, exactly,

sports gambling. I mean, you name it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, the no agenda community is
the same way. I mean, that's,that's a community that is
carved out, sort of like, youknow that not or like, a borders
for itself, where you just like,here's, here's where you know
you can, you can list off adozen shows that are no agenda
related shows, and it's justlike, is, yep, that could be the

(01:26:08):
same thing.

I'm gonna thank some people so I can get you out kind
of on time. Okay, by the way,very bad idea for everyone to
keep posting. How many minutesleft?

I'm so stressed right now.

Y'all gotta stop. I'm stressed too. 3000 SATs from
a Chris, you know, he says onthe topic of getting away from
mailbox zero podcast apps, I'dgive anything for a podcasting
2.0 app that was exactly like aninbox. Move through the queue
with swipe actions, quicklyassigned episodes to folders, ie
playlists, mail rules based onsender text in the title or show
notes. Get some, get close, butnone achieve this. Well, that's

(01:26:43):
another tactic that's notexactly I don't want any talking
about I don't want it either.

I don't want any of that. I want a big I want a big
stream of things coming by. Andif something catches my eye, I
click it and I listen to it. IfI happen to miss something that
I would have liked, I'm going todepend on my on a on somebody in
my community to send it to melater. 33,333

from Sir Spencer, love that disco swag. He says
the dorfels have been at theforefront of the DIY d mu scene,
and we love it. D mu fordecentralized music.

Jen, stop it. Boober booberry with 3333

does anyone else ever get that itch in the back
of their throat that onlyinevitable heat death of the
universe could scratch? Yes,every day. 333. From salty
crayon. Keep helipad. Eric. PP,yes, of course, he will. 17,776
from blueberry big freedom.Boost. MP, for his artwork would
be amazing. The resolution ofthe art would be amazing. Clear

(01:27:41):
your schedule, by the way, forSunday, September 22 tune in
after no agenda to catch thesatellite skirmish. Autumn rust
a day, low value for value,Battle Royale. New bands, new
emcees, new boost animations.Boost the bands and crew
directly. And watch lit at liveis lit.com Yes. Well, there's a
whole nother app I would use forthat, for a community like that,

(01:28:03):
these laughs. He says, October,surprise coming soon. Yes. Mike
Dell 1701, Star Trek, boost,listening on my new flip phone.
LLP, what does llap mean? Llap?

Unknown (01:28:19):
I don't know what that means yet. My new flip, flown
Lou, yeah, 3000

from Chris. You know, has anyone considered coin
os.io as a podcaster. Walletsign up is just choosing a
username, no email needed. Evenopen source so someone could add
in key send or use the lightningaddress. They give you an A
nostr wallet connects like Albi,uses custodial but super easy,
slick PWA. Can also send someonea pre funded wallet link that

(01:28:45):
just works, or have to take alook at that and no idea what
that is. 6341, from chimp. Lifeis serious. Life is depressing.
Embrace the void, okay,

Unknown (01:28:57):
jeez.

And then we got a couple of test boosts, 1000 from
Chad F, who was boosting thedepressing song, Nate Jonathan,
don't worry. 1234, from DrScott. Boosts are failing to the
boost bot figured, yeah, wefixed that during the show. We
opened up a channel. You justrun out of liquidity. So the
boost bot is back. 1234, from DrScott boosty mctess, boost, and

(01:29:23):
I think Did you get the pastorcombs, boost, you might not have
that one. I'll read it becausethat's just before the
delimiter. 3333 from Pastorcombs. He says, God be with you,
brothers. Pasty cope, Pastorcombsy Here, I'm sure you've
I've heard from others, butFountain has been basically

(01:29:44):
unusable since the update. Iknow they're working hard, but
it's been really hard to stickwith it. Audio constantly stops,
and that's if you can get it toeven play. Workaround has has
even to delete all episodesuninstalled and reinstall even
using the test flight versionisn't working. Need is. To say
it's super tedious. Currentlyusing fountain to boost and pod
verse to listen hashtag, growingpains, yes, these are very tough

(01:30:07):
times. We're seeing the samething with Marco with overcast.
This very difficult when you doa big update on an app. So stay
with it. Give him some grace.

Yeah, Oscar sent us a message saying that, I mean,
it was basically a perfect stormfor him. They did a big update.
That update had some bugs, andso they went and they fixed the
bugs. But then, in the meantime,they deprecated one of the
libraries, one of the, like,audio libraries that he was
using and they wouldn't. And sohe has, he's like, having to, if

(01:30:40):
I understood him correctly, he'shaving to, in a mad dash, recode
part of his audio engine fromscratch. Oh, yeah, that's
horrible. I mean, he's worked. Imean, he's going as fast as he
can. He's, he's, he soundedstressed.

Mike Dell, Mike Dell clarifies, uh, LLP, live long
and prosper. Uh, flip phone is acourse s 22 Oh yes, that's a
very robust flip phone. We've

got some PayPals. We've got starting off. We've
got the guys at bus sprout andthe girls there too. They all
pitched in and they sent us$1,000

Unknown (01:31:18):
shot caller. 20 is Blaze only, Impala

keeping the 2.0 chimney smoking. Thank you.
Thank you both sprouts. Thankyou very much.

We need working here. That's right. It's all
white smoke.

That's right. Thank you. Thank you very much, very
much.

Gene Liverman sent us five bucks and he he is a new
subscriber. He did automaticpayment. All right, welcome. Is
your Defragmenter fully charged?Because we I think you need to

use it again. Yeah, hold on. It's plugged in. Go for

it. Okay? It's uh, OYSTEIN bear, $5 a month,
automatic payment.

Thank you. OYSTEIN, appreciate that.

Did I say that name? Right? Was that?

Yeah, oyster lost

my place. Where are we at? Where are we at with
booster grams, I got a resort.This is all this is the
boardroom

stress. You're stressed. You're stressed. Man,
I know you're stressed.

Gene bean, 2222 through cast O Matic, the sad
truth is that we've beenconditioned to use apps on
mobile devices. PWA is just docut it when trying to onboard so
many people today, maybe one daythey will, but that day doesn't
seem to be today. I'm reallyglad true fans is going to offer
ABS so as to make it accessibleto the masses. All right. Yep,

(01:32:50):
yep. True. True. Uh. Ganonymous, 6969 through
fountain. Says, just saying,

Unknown (01:32:56):
Thank you, Sir

Brian of London, 11 948, through caste O Matic, he
says, boosting from hive Fest inSplit Croatia,

ooh. Boost, high fest. Hive fest,

a Croatian. Boost, I can't believe you made me think
about coming in through. RachelMaddow, entrance, hole, Brian,
sorry, stop. Come on. I'm gonna,we're gonna have to censor,
yeah, really? Randall, black, 56sets out of 1111, a satchel.

(01:33:28):
Richards, he says. Brad joner,joining the value verse. Brad
johnner,

oh, oh yes, that was the song we played. Yeah,
joining the value

verse is huge. Great, award winning Canadian
artist now just gets CD, baby.Did not flag songs in V, for V
on YouTube for copyrightstrikes. Go podcast. Go

podcasting indeed.

And Gene bean, 2222 again, through castematic, he
says, Dave, it's okay not to beon call. 24/7 365, we will all
survive if you take time off forself help. This, I've never felt
less, less healthy than our dayright now. Really, that said, I
mean, that was hyperbole, butoh, the distress I've completely

(01:34:13):
I'm holding my hand in front ofthe boardroom. IRC, yes, that's
hard. Thanks for looking intothe aggregator issue, rapidly,
thinking about long termsustainability. How can we make
you not the only one who's ableto fix some of these wacky
things? That's good. That'sbring

back the chocolate beef milkshakes. That's the only
way to fix that problem. Yeah.

So I can have more power. That's the answer. Good.
Power. Good one power comicstrip blogger, the delimiter,
24,000 SATs nice throughfountain says, howdy, Dave and
Adam. Today, I would like torecommend hyper catcher, a
podcast player, app for iPhoneand iPad. Search in App Store

(01:34:59):
for hyper. Catcher writtentogether in the middle, or visit
www.hypercatcher.com this appcan generate transcripts for
podcasts that don't have themfor free on device. What's very
helpful as transcripts can beuploaded, for example, to LLM

(01:35:21):
like Claude, an AI assistantfrom anthropic or chat GPT from
open AI for summarizing and dataquery purpose, yo, CSB,

it should just, it should just have in your podcast
app a podcast daily that justsummarizes all the podcasts
you're not going to listen toanymore. It's perfect.

If I could have a podcast app that after I haven't
listened to a podcast in maybethree days, if it would just
remove you on my list.

Give me a catch up and remove all old episodes.
Well, there you go. A digest,you know, digest the die, cast,
digest, cast, Yeah,

cuz you know, you have those things where it's
like on this mailing list, doyou want to get every message in
your inbox?

Yeah, you go, tried and true. Tried and True.

Got some, got some monthlies. We got new media
productions. That's Rob andTodd. $30 thank you. Timothy
voice, $10 uh. Michael Hall,$5.50 Thank you. Michael Jeremy
gerds, $5 and Satan's lawyer, $5

the advocate is always in the house. We have our
eye on you. We got our eye onyou. All right, brother, get
out. Go back. Go back to the tothe mill, back to the grind.

Okay, I'm out. Yeah, I

got you in last seven minutes. Not too bad. Have
a great weekend, brother. Yeah,you too All right. Thank you
very much. Boardroom. We'll beback next week with more
podcasting. 2.0 you

Unknown (01:37:07):
podcasts are cool. You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 visit podcastindex.org for more information.
Go
podcasting Nerdfighters,nerdfight. You.

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.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 194: Freak Off Friday

Episode Transcript

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.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

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Episode 194: Freak Off Friday

Cold Case Files: Miami