Episode 196: Red Neck Airforce

Episode Transcript
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Unknown (00:00):
Podcasting 2.0

Adam Curry (00:02):
for October 4, 2024 episode 196, redneck Air Force.
Hey everybody, it's time to getyour weekend started. You know
what we do? We have a meeting,but not just any old meeting. It
is the official board meeting ofpodcasting 2.0 where we
discussed everything that'shappened in the past week, in
the past 20 years, and for thefuture 20 years, we are, in

(00:25):
fact, the only boardroom thatnever discusses our KPIs and
EBITDA. I'm Adam curry here inthe heart of the Texas Hill
Country in Alabama, the expertwho can answer the question,
what is a podcast? Say hello tomy friend on the other end, the
one and only Mr. Dave Jones,

Dave Jones (00:42):
the reason this podcast does not have video is
because of what is, because ofwhat just happened the you're
doing the intro, and I'm justshoving popcorn in my mouth as
fast as I can, because I eatlunch. Yeah,

Adam Curry (00:57):
you're actually on your lunch hour. You You break,
and you don't even take a break.You're breaking from the day
job, and you're just goingstraight into the board meeting.
While you're eating, there willbe popcorn in the boardroom,
yes, at all times. And beefmilkshakes, you have a beef
milk?

Dave Jones (01:12):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, you got it right here. Do

Adam Curry (01:14):
you have a good beef now? You're not, not that crap
you were drinking last week,because that was a chocolate.
That was a problem. Was aproblem.

Dave Jones (01:21):
Back to God's flavor. Jonathan feels

Adam Curry (01:23):
kind of bad doing a fun, energetic show today. Why?
You know, for the past sevenboom, thank you. For the past 72
hours, I have been tuned intothe ham bands. I'm buying jet
fuel and 100 ll at every airportI can find. I mean, what is

(01:46):
happening in western NorthCarolina is messed up. Brother

Dave Jones (01:50):
can Okay, um, let me, let me say we were going so
me and me and Melissa were goingto go to, we've had this trip
planned for months. We weregonna go in October, the like,
in a couple of weeks, we weregonna go and hike a section of
the Appalachian Trail, yeah,that's clearly off, you know,

(02:13):
off the table now, because of,because of this so much damage
to to the trail, yeah, so and,and I've seen I've seen little
I've been very busy, and I'veseen little bits of of news
coming out of North Carolina,and I've seen some of the places
that I'm familiar with, aroundAsheville that got just

(02:34):
destroyed, yeah, but like, can Idon't feel like I have a full
scope of what's happened, doyou?

Adam Curry (02:40):
Yes, I do, and I think you don't have it by
design. I'll give you theabbreviated version, because we
have a lot of producers in thearea, a lot of no agenda
producers. I just becomeacquainted with this guy,
Justin, who has a shoe company,op way Made in America, handmade
leather sneakers, high endstuff. And he just reached out

(03:03):
to me, you know, a day beforethe hurricane. It's like, yeah,
I want to make a no agendasneaker. And we've been
listening for, you know, 10years, and we're millennials,
and we love it, you know. Andand his entire factory is
destroyed, and so he's been kindof my boots on the ground, and
he has, his brother is afirefighter. He's about 30
minutes outside of Asheville. Hesays, okay, dude, it's not

(03:25):
hundreds. There's 1000s of dead1000s. He says, You have no idea
how bad it is. There is noresponse state or federal that
they've seen and they've beenwithout power. They have a well,
but they've been without powerfor six days.

Dave Jones (03:39):
Well, do they have a well that can handle that means
electric pump? Well,

Adam Curry (03:42):
yeah, he put a generator on. He's he says he
was lucky, because he's kind ofprepared, but you gotta imagine,
like there's no electricity.ATMs don't work. People don't
have cash. I mean, it's just butpeople are cut off from from all
civilization up on themountaintops and so, as is
typical in America, we just jumpin. And doesn't matter what your

(04:05):
background, race, creed,religion, age, political
affiliation, none of thatmatters. We all jump into
chainsaws and you go, right? Andso, because it's the mountains,
there's this Redneck Air ForceThat Is that has kind of
assembled, and it's everybodywho has a helicopter. There's
tons of YouTube videos of guyswith their own personal

(04:26):
helicopters, taken in water andblankets and taken people out
and and what the travesty is,you know this, there's a lot of
conspiracy theories. And youknow, that's my that's my jam.
So I'm looking into everything.It's like, oh, no, they, they've
let this all flood because theywant an eminent domain. The
court's mind, the lithium, youknow, they, they, they, I'm

(04:46):
like, no, no. What has happenedhere is all government,
particularly Americangovernments, our federal our
state governments. There. Theyare incapable. They are, they
are. Are completely not capableof doing anything. We've We've
wound up with this bunch ofpencil pushers who, you know,

(05:09):
draw up there in the onwhiteboards and plans, and
they're creating ideas and theyhave, they're unable to do
anything. And

Dave Jones (05:17):
then there come there comes a point in any sort
of devastation or tra or tragedyof this scale, where, where it
nobody wants to admit it, but itvery much gets out. You can't,
you can't even really respond onthat level, like we saw it. The
same thing happened with Katrinafor for, for weeks. I mean,

(05:43):
people, there was just barelyany. Nobody even knew where to
start. You don't know what todo. You don't know where to
begin. Like there really was noway to even start the process
from, from if you look at itfrom a top down, if you're
looking at it from top down,there is no, there's no way to
even start. It has to be a Imean, but

Adam Curry (06:05):
dude, just look at the people that we have in
charge. My Yorkers. I mean this.These people are incompetent.
They have completely forgottenand forsaken their true mission.
They're not capable of it. Andmedia can't cover this simple
fact. That's why you're notseeing all that much. They
should have helicopters allover, flying everywhere, showing
the devastation. But they can,because we're electric cycle. I

Dave Jones (06:29):
saw that there's some city. It's like bat basic
bat chick or something. They got31 inches. Yeah, right, yeah.
That's, that's

Adam Curry (06:37):
the numbers I'm hearing too. 31 inches is

Dave Jones (06:41):
you can't, no infrastructure. It doesn't.
There is not an infrastructureyou can build that will survive,
that no,

Adam Curry (06:49):
it won't. It's gone. But you know, in addition to
that, the the incompetence ofour weather system. You know,
they were telling people, oh,it's just some gusts and it's
not too bad, and, oh, it'll bebig, but it may be 80 miles, you

(07:11):
know, 35 miles an hour, 80 milean hour gusts. They they're
running computer models to provethat climate change is real. Man
made climate change, and they'reincapable of warning people
properly. This was a mother ofall stars, yeah, a mother of all
storms. And so it's all just,you know, especially North

(07:36):
Carolina, I remember, oh, whenit was about gender neutral
bathrooms and men playing inwomen's sports, I push for
abortions. Oh, yeah, oh, we'reall out here now this like, oh,
okay, I'm I'm your governor, andwe're working on coordinating
what? Meanwhile, there's peoplejust, you know, using trucks and

(07:57):
and helicopters and flyingmedication and insulin with
their own drones. Then the, thenthe feds come in and say, okay,
temporary flight restrictionarea. You can't fly here with
your drone, because we're,you're going to get in the way
of our operations.

Dave Jones (08:11):
Yeah, Bill Me, you know, that's, I mean, that's,
that's the way that works is,you know, sim, you know, send me
a bill, I'm just going to keepdoing what I'm doing. I mean,
it's just the way people dug outof Katrina, ignoring the Feds
exactly, and just doing whatthey knew needed to be done down
their own street,

Adam Curry (08:30):
yes, and that's what's happening. And I feel
very especially as a helicopterpilot. I'm a little too old now
for this. I could have certainlygone, you know, flown copilot
with somebody. I feel sohelpless. So I just, I know,
each time you come back to base,it's three to $500 to fill that
bird up. So I'm just like, I'mjust calling up airports, and
everyone's doing it like, youneed gas. All right, just give

(08:52):
them your credit card. Boom, buysome gas. That's all I can do,
really.

Dave Jones (08:58):
I went to, I went to Asheville. You know, we went to
Asheville a couple years ago. Wewere doing the show. Then I
think I talked about it as wewent up there for a little bit
of a vacation and went to, is itChimney Rock? Yeah?

Adam Curry (09:10):
Oh, no, Chimney Rock is gone. It's completely gone.
Yeah, that

Dave Jones (09:15):
was a cute, it was a such a cute little town, right
there, yeah, like

Adam Curry (09:18):
12,000 people or something, or 20, no more than
20,000 very small likeFrederick's book. Basically,

Dave Jones (09:24):
it's just, I mean, like, it's just gone. It was a
small town on it's a small townon the bank of a basically, some
rapids. And those rapids are,you have to walk down quite a
bit. They're probably, I wouldsay, at least 12 to No. It's
more than that. It's probably 15feet below the level of where

(09:45):
the town is, is where the is,where these rapids are. So if
it, I mean, if it rose, no, thatwas crazy. It's crazy. I mean,
then it's, I mean, it's justgoing to take everything out.

Adam Curry (09:56):
So overflow this banks. So the i. So this is a
lesson, a lesson for everybody.Your government is not coming to
help. They're weak, they'rewimpy, they're woke. They are
pencil pushers. It's, you know,it's, this is the same
complaints I hear from ourmilitary personnel. Who are

(10:16):
these guys? What are they doing?They don't they have no idea
what they're doing anymore. It'sjust we've we've put an
administrative state in placethat is incapable. The only
thing they can do is say, well,we need more money. That's
literally what Mayorkas issaying. Well, I need more money
to do this. Dude spend. Get thecredit card. We'll deal with
that later. Go, go, go, go, go,you know. And then they can't

(10:39):
agree. Well, we haven't hadtitle, you 10 approved yet by
the governor, so we can't.They've got Chinook 40 sevens
and 60s ready to go at Libertybase. And, no, we can't fly him
because, you know, we don't havethe permit. It's so stupid.
It's, it's, it's disappointing.

Dave Jones (10:56):
This has happened in my lifetime. This change from
when a disaster happens, you thecommunity recovers. As as switch
to when a disaster happens,everybody looks to the
government, waits for thegovernment. Yes, exactly. It's
it started. You know, I think itstarted. It started under the

(11:20):
George Bush, senior, yeah,remember brownie? Good job,
Brownie. And then, and then itturned and then it really
accelerated under the first Bushwith Katrina and all that kind
of stuff and And what's crazy? Imean, excuse me, the W, W,
everybody thought that what'scrazy is they, they showed that
they were incapable to respondproperly to Katrina, because

(11:42):
they, what was the first thingthey did, they cordon they they
corralled everybody into theSuperdome.

Adam Curry (11:49):
That was, that was horrible people getting ready.
The whole thing was out

Dave Jones (11:53):
of control. Oh, it was like hell on earth. And
then, you know, and I remember,I still remember, to this day,
for it didn't even start up for,I think, a couple of weeks, all
of a sudden there was justTrent. You'd get stopped by a
train, and it would just behundreds of these FEMA white
cars going by. Yeah, youremember those trailers? Oh

(12:15):
yeah,

Adam Curry (12:16):
the one was formaldehyde. Then went on to
poison everybody, uh

Dave Jones (12:20):
huh. And then New Orleans was never, has never
been the same since. And Iguarantee you, the same thing is
going to happen with this.People are going to there's a
certain amount of devastationwhere people just have to leave
in order to survive. They haveto go somewhere else. And a
percentage of them, sometimes alarge percentage of them, will
just never come

Adam Curry (12:41):
back. And what's sad to me is people have such
distrust in their governmentthat that with their where their
brain goes is, this was a setup.This was harp the weather
modification they wanted, theland, eminent domain. No, it's
much simpler. They're incapable.They are not capable of doing
this, and

Dave Jones (13:01):
was that never, never a tribute to malice.
What's explained byincompetence? Oh,

Adam Curry (13:05):
beautiful, beautiful. That's, I forgot that
one Absolutely. So we just beenbuying gas and praying, man,
that's all we can do. That's allwe can do down here and
communicating. You know, lots ofpeople got my number, so let me
know whatever I can do ifdoesn't matter how small it is,
the hams have been actuallyquite amazing, as disappointed
as I was when we had the snowApocalypse here in in Texas four

(13:30):
or five years ago. I mean,they've had emergency nets that
have been up 24/7, their handsoff. They're they're doing
everything from contactingpeople to let them know they're
okay to, hey, I need 100 foot ofcorrugated pipe. You know, it's,
it's, yeah, that, that, to me,is, gives me a lot of hope in
our country. And I so I checkedout the radio stations on

(13:53):
TuneIn, TuneIn, annoying,annoying jingle they've got, and
both NPR stations. This isTerry, gross, fresh air. Okay,
so I listened to the countrystations, the top 40 stations.
Everybody's on network basedprogramming, just playing music,
the faith broadcasters, theChristian stations, they're

(14:15):
doing food drives. They'reorganizing at their church.
They're taking in money. Yeah,you know, it's like, okay,
someone's doing something. It'sjust ah,

Dave Jones (14:24):
do you remember also in the last, also in the
lifetime of this, of this, ofthis boardroom, it was Ed guy
from radio, Inc, I can'tremember his last name, Ed Ryan.
Oh yeah, sure, sure, sure. EdRyan, when Tampa Bay

Adam Curry (14:39):
got, oh, yes, he, he was doing all kinds of stuff.
Yeah,

Dave Jones (14:44):
him and his wife, they, they got on a live stream.
They were doing a live streamevery single day saying, you
know, and they would take, theywere taking call ins. People
would call in, yeah, hey, I liveon. I live at 22 Appalachia
drive, or whatever, you know, myI need. Some gas. And, okay,
somebody get this guy a couplegallons of gas. And it was just

(15:04):
like that for, for like, maybethree weeks. Oh,

Adam Curry (15:06):
and it was and, but already the news move right on
to breaking new allegationsagainst Trump. Like, whoa. This
is so, so so wrong. And there's

Dave Jones (15:17):
no, I mean, there's, I just, I just looked at, like,
New York Times. There's no, nota single mention of it. No,
anywhere, anywhere on the firstpage,

Adam Curry (15:23):
because it's political season and everyone's
pointing fingers at each other.Oh, it's that guy's fault. Oh,
it's lieutenant governor. Oh,okay, well, whatever. So go.
Redneck Air Force. Is what Isay. Redneck Air Force, that's
what I'm calling them, theRaymond Air Force. Yes. All
right. Happier news after lastweek's board meeting, I was at

(15:45):
the podcasters virtual Summit,Bitcoin for podcasters. Host,
yes, I need a report, yes,hosted by DJ Valerie. Be Love.
It was, it was actually I put alink in our show notes. It was
great. It was really on, she dida fireside chat, which was on
Zoom, and so we talked, and, youknow, this was obviously Bitcoin

(16:09):
focus, which was fine. And Oscarwas on, Barry from pod home,
Moritz from Albie. I know I'mforgetting people now, but it
was good, you know, we did apanel afterwards and talked a
lot of, Oh, Ben, from what's thefrom Ellen bits. Oh, okay. And I

(16:37):
asked him, right there on thepanel, Hey, Ben. Ben, man, can
you bump that. PR for us, theYes, of course, I'll bump that
Sure. You know, nice. They'reabout to go into 1.0 so there's
a lot going on with those guys,and I understand, you know, I
comprehend what that means. Letme put it that way. Yeah, sure.
So nice guy, though, the, youknow, he's like, oh, you know,

(16:59):
we really want to make this workand and it's interesting,
because at the same time, Albiehub for start nine came out
officially in the marketplace,in the Start nine marketplace.
Oh, okay, now I understand whatit does. This is great. It's
very impressive.

Dave Jones (17:19):
So, we've not, we've not had a clip. I mean, are you
saying that we did that? We'vemisunderstood what this is.

Adam Curry (17:26):
No, no, no, no. Haven't misunderstood at all.
But now it's, it's okay. Sothey've released this for your
own benefit. You can run on yourown server, and you know what it
does is it, in essence,transforms your lightning node
into kind of, I would just callit a like an umbrell for for

(17:48):
lightning apps. So there's thiswhole store, and then you can
connect any lightning app toyour node with ease. So linking
my Get out, my get Albieaddress, so I still had a legacy
wallet, and I think I had maybe600,000 SATs in there. And

Dave Jones (18:06):
your Alby, well, in your in your album, yeah, my
Yeah, that's a lie, yeah. Well,

Adam Curry (18:10):
I use it, you know, I dump stuff. Dump stuff in
there. I take a split on some ofmy shows to put to keep the keep
the flow going, just a littlebit, to keep filling it up. But
I usually deplete it because I'mI like to boost, I like to boost
my balls. And yes, you do andand so you click, it connects,

(18:31):
and then right away, I couldsend that balance over with one
click of the button. They havetheir own wallet called albigo,
which is just a very, verysimple lightning wallet. Boom,
click. I mean, it worksincredibly well. And then, of
course, there's 1000 nostraapps, but there's all kinds of
other stuff that you can connectto it, and you can act as an
Uncle Jim node, so you can,yeah, so that's the equivalent

(18:56):
of Ellen bits.

Dave Jones (18:58):
So that's the thing, or that's the thing that we
that's the thing that Albiewanted us to do for podcast
apps. Yeah, no

Adam Curry (19:07):
way. There's no way we can do that now we're going
to go to jail. So no, we can'tdo that, right? And I get it,
but no, we can't do that. But Iam doing it for, I'm doing it
for, for Jimmy, I'm doing for acouple other people who want to
move off of, you know, have overa million SATs in there. Get
Alby accounts, and they'regetting messages like, hey, hey,

(19:29):
hey, you gotta, you gotta movestuff out and, and so I'm gonna
set up some accounts for them,just to make it easy anyway. So
that was the, that was thevirtual Summit, and, and it was
great. And thank you. DJValerie. B, love for hosting
that she's wonderful. I didn't,I didn't know her personally.
I'd seen her at a value forvalue I think at the Bitcoin

(19:51):
Conference, she did a value forvalue panel. She's She's bright,
she's quite an asset to thevalue verse. Then I. We had
episode 1700 of no agenda

Dave Jones (20:06):
and that, and that was,

Adam Curry (20:08):
that was yesterday, okay? And, you know, our, yeah,
these, like these, likemilestone numbers, you know,
1700 it'll be 17 years of thatshow on october 26 that's huge.
Man, congratulations. Almost aslong as my first marriage, so
John will be my longest wifeever.

Dave Jones (20:30):
Congratulations. Man, that's a huge deal. And
just, I mean, the staying power.I mean just, just this show is
to, let's see this show was, hasonly been a little over four
years, four years just seeing,like, just four years seeing the
the real commitment of time ittakes to prep and show up and do

(20:53):
the show every I mean, like,it's 17 years. Or, excuse me, I
mean, 1700 shows is amazing. So

Adam Curry (21:02):
I just want to remind people of the secrets,
because there are some verybasic rules. If you want to have
a successful value for valuepodcast, you always have to have
your feedback loop when you knowhowever you do it, when people
are sending in money or, well,we don't have boost yet coming,

(21:25):
but we have PayPal and Stripeand and, you know, so we have a
thank you. So we actually havetwo Thank you segments. We have
incentives like, you know, ifyou your cumulative $1,000
There's many people who havebeen doing $4 a week for, you
know, years and oops, all of asudden they look, they look at
their accounting, like, Hey,I've reached it. They get a

(21:46):
ring. You know, it's like, it'slike, our version of the tote
bag, only much cooler.Obviously, we always release,
but we don't release. We recordlive same time. Every single
time it's we've had one or two,maybe a handful of instances
where we've had to start laterfor some travel or something

(22:07):
like that. But in general, it'salways the same time. The live
stream and the chat room, whichwe call the troll room, I think,
has been instrumental, and I'vealways advocated for live
production. It's just, it's justbetter you have a live studio
audience, you've got a you'vegot your instant feedback loop
like we have now in theboardroom. It's, it's incredibly

(22:31):
important.

Dave Jones (22:32):
I would, I don't think you know, we did the first
maybe, what, 50 episodes of thisshow, not live.

Adam Curry (22:38):
I usually, I thought we did live right away. We
didn't do it live right away.No, it may

Dave Jones (22:42):
not have been 50. It was it was early, but we did.
Maybe we did a few monthswithout, without the live. It
may have been like, 30 episodes,25 something like that. But

Adam Curry (22:55):
once we got the chat tag in, there's probably like,
hey, there's a chat tag. Let'sdo it live, right?

Dave Jones (23:01):
Yes, we were waiting for something like that, and we
did it and like, I don't eventhink if we had to go back to
doing it, not, I don't eventhink I'd want to do the show.
No, it's

Adam Curry (23:11):
not as fun. It's not it's not exactly so there's,
there's that aspect which and wenever edit anything. I mean,
yeah, if there's a hugetechnical issue. I'll take out
the junk if necessary. But ingeneral, we don't edit in fact,
the biggest joke is, don'tworry, I'll edit that out. No
one will ever know thedifference. I did that to Tina
the other day on curry and thekeeper, and then she came to me

(23:32):
next day, Hey, you forgot toedit that out. I'm like, How
long have you known me? Like,I'm not gonna edit that out.
That's great. People lovehearing the flubs and that
stuff. And then I think thewell, we also, by the way, we
accept checks. I say 40% of ourvalue for value comes in through
people who send checks inAmerica. You can send it

(23:53):
automatically from your bank.You know the processing is
almost no fees and and peopleget very creative, and they send
in handwritten notes. Andanyhow, so the feedback loop is
critical.

Dave Jones (24:06):
Don't tell me. I never want to hear that people
that this something is, quote,too much friction. If, if
somebody's if 40% of yourdonations are people that have
sit, sat down with a with a apen and a check and then mailed
it to you. Yep, that is someserious that's about as the most
friction as you can possiblyget.

Adam Curry (24:27):
Yeah, no, they love doing it. They love it. What was
the other thing I was going tosay? Oh, of course, value for
value is time, talent andtreasure we have. From the
beginning always said, Hey, youcan't support us with money. You
can promote us be online if youknow, we've never built our own

(24:48):
website, coded monkey did themost recent one for us. Tim,
which is noagendashow.net. Wehave the no agenda meetups, all.
Producer organized. Everyoneorganizes that themselves. We
just. Promote it. We play theirpromos. We play their reports.
You know, I'll actually spendtime editing the really crappy
ones where we're going to handthe phone around, edit all that

(25:12):
out. The art we have, we've,almost from the beginning, we've
had new artwork for everyepisode, no agenda. Art
Generator, also built by one ofour producers, Sir Paul couture,
that has, you know, and then theboots on the ground once we kind
of got people trained, like, ifyou if you hear us talking about

(25:32):
something, or if there'ssomething in the news that you
know about, because everybodyhas a specialty, it is your
obligation to email us and tellus what's really going on. And
so, I mean, with this, withthis, with this hurricane Helene
thing, it's been almostoverwhelming. So my job, I'm
really an information gatherer,and so there's no way on value

(25:54):
for value we could affordproducers, by the way, I produce
the show. John does all the hewrites the newsletter. This is
the other critical part beforeevery show. The day before a
newsletter goes out, he has atemplate. He has it templatized
at this point, but there'sthought that goes into it. He
sends me the copy. I proofreadit. Send it back to him. Stuff

(26:15):
still messes up, of course, Ithink we even sends it to a
third person, another producer,who checks it, and the whole
purpose of that newsletter istwofold. One, we have another
show coming up tomorrow.Remember, your life is busy.
We're reminding you that we'regonna do another show tomorrow.
And yes, we need you to supportus. And it works, and we're not

(26:38):
bashful about it. And And ifpeople found no value, they
would not send us value. Andthat's the most honest media
I've ever been involved in,coincidentally, the longest
media job I've ever had in mylife.

Dave Jones (26:53):
No, it is, isn't it? Oh,

Adam Curry (26:55):
by a long shot, MTV was half of the Mt. No. MTV was
seven years, seven and a halfyears. So, oh yeah, it's
interesting. It's been thelongest media gig I've ever had,
and, you know, I'm gonna diespitting in the mic one way or
the other.

Dave Jones (27:11):
I mean, of course you will. That's who you are.
So,

Adam Curry (27:14):
so when I you know, so I always approach the podcast
industry in a very differentway, because I can also look at
my stats and the majority ofpeople we have. A lot of people
using pod verse, a lot of peopleusing podcast guru, a lot of
people using fountain, like bignumbers, like 30, 40% like big

(27:35):
numbers, because I tell themthis is you want to get notified
within 90 seconds, use one ofthese apps. You know, you want
to get a bat signal when we golive. Use one of these apps. You
want to see all the other coolpieces of art that people
created that we didn't choose asalbum art. Drab, Scott, thank
you. Dr. Scott, another valuablevalue for value contribution. He

(27:56):
puts in album art that he pullsright from the Art Generator.
This is the new type of mediathat people need to be looking
at, and the apps, I think can doan even better job at creating
this loop. You know, thesefeedback loops are critical.
This is where a lot of videofalls down, which is why, one of

(28:17):
the reasons I don't think it'sthat important, you know,
because video, by itself, isvery difficult to do video and
be interactive. You know, it'slike, I can be doing the show
and and I can be looking at theboardroom and seeing what people
are saying and interacting withthem. We've got booster grams
firing off with differentsounds. All of these things are

(28:38):
happening in real time. And if Ialso had to figure out what
camera I'm looking at, or whatthe shot is, or have someone do
that, forget about it. And it'sno longer intimate. This is an
intimacy of epic proportions.And

Dave Jones (28:52):
I think, I think you're, I mean, the you have
standing to say that, becauseyou did TV for a long time. You
didn't, you did video for manyyears, yeah, so you, I mean,
it's not like, and you did, youknow, you also did video
podcasts, people, you know,sure, I don't think people,
maybe people don't remember,like, the big book show and the

(29:13):
big App Show, big book show,yeah, those were video shows.
Those are video podcasts. Andyou, and you did them. So you
have, like, when you speak aboutthese things, it's not like,
you're just theoretical. Youactually did them and, like, did
them very early too,

Adam Curry (29:28):
which is why I never made any money very early. Yeah,

Dave Jones (29:32):
it's always been your problem. Always too

Adam Curry (29:35):
early. Now I can see interview shows. It's
interesting to see the interviewsubject. I mean, I get all that.
So when I was listening to powerthe partners weekly review, and
they had the interview with theSpotify lady, and, you know, and
she goes right into, well, apodcast can be whatever people
call it, not dependent upon RSS.By the way, it's RSS. There's no

(29:58):
such thing as open RSS, just Rs.Us, and to me, I remember we
started podcasting, and I don'tknow if I still have that, if I
still have that jingle, I guessnot. It was transmitters. We
don't need no string stinkingtransmitters, you know. So to

(30:19):
say that it's it doesn't matterhow it's distributed. It does.
It does matter because you'renot in control. And how many
times do we see someone getkicked off of YouTube? How long
before you build up youraudience with spot up video on
Spotify, which only is onSpotify before something happens
or you're not in control? Thatwas the whole point is, you're

(30:42):
in the advertising industry.They should be. They should be
outraged about this. The wholebeauty of RSS distribution is
you put your ad in one place. Itgoes to all the apps. What now
you got to have conversationswith everybody else the Anyway,
did, I

Dave Jones (31:00):
don't know if you pulled any clip of that. I
didn't

Adam Curry (31:02):
know. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't pull it. I have
the, what are we drinking?

Dave Jones (31:07):
This is the last of the Lacroix here.

Adam Curry (31:10):
Oh, I have, I have a Lacroix. I forgot what I have in
it. Though I have, actually theJames was kind enough to post.
So what is a podcast? Maybe weshould just play that bit here.
I love

Unknown (31:23):
this question. This is something that I've thought
about a lot over the years, as Ithink, you know, I was the first
employee at anchor back in theday, way too many years ago, I
stayed with Yes.

Dave Jones (31:34):
So this, I guess it's just the political season
that we're in, but this is the,I forgot what the original
question was.

Adam Curry (31:47):
So, what is a podcast?

Dave Jones (31:48):
What is a podcast? Yes, so this is the I was born
in a middle class family.

Unknown (32:00):
Podcast. Look,

Adam Curry (32:01):
I was born in a middle class family. I

Unknown (32:04):
love this question. This is something that I've
thought about a lot over theyears, as I think, you know, I
was the first employee at anchorback in the day, way too many
years ago, I stayed with thecompany through our sale to
Spotify, and now I lead productfor Spotify podcast team. So
I've been through a lot ofevolutions of podcasts over the
years. Gotten a lot of thoughtsfrom creators and from

(32:25):
listeners, and I also have a fewpodcasts myself, so I've seen
this up close, everything fromhow people distribute to what
formats they're producing to howthey find new audiences and how
they interact with the peoplelistening. A lot of that has
been changing and sort ofquestioned over the years. So
where I've landed is, I thinkit's less about the delivery

(32:46):
mechanism or whether it's audioor video. It's also really not
up to me or any person orcompany to define. I think a
podcast is whatever podcastcreators and listeners say it
is, and they're telling us moreand more that to them, a podcast
can be video, it can beinteractive, it can exist
outside of an RSS feed. Andsince all of those things

(33:07):
introduce new greatopportunities for podcasters, I
don't see why we wouldn't leaninto them as an industry. I will
try to answer your actualquestion, though. I think that
at its core, the things thatattract people to podcasts as a
medium have remained the same,even as all of these things have
been evolving. It's aboutinformation, connection, great

(33:27):
storytelling, and I don't reallysee that changing, despite, you
know, whatever continues tohappen with the with the format
itself.

Adam Curry (33:35):
So I agree that connection is a big part of it
storytelling, I mean thecontent. We often in the
industry, we no longer talkabout the content just by
growing your show discovery. No,if it sucks, it sucks. If it's
small, it's small. If it's meantfor a small audience, it's gonna
be a small audience. That's it'snot the thinking is still so old

(33:57):
world, like we gotta grow. Itgotta be big. Gotta be the
biggest. No, no, we, right now,have 46 people in the troll
room. We may have twice thatlistening, and it doesn't
matter. It's the right people.It's our people. We're
sustaining an entireinfrastructure on this, this
ragtag crew. That's what it'sabout now. But then to say it

(34:22):
can exist, it doesn't matterwhat the distribution is. Well,
I'll argue against that. I thinka blog without an RSS feed is
dumb. Almost every system on theinternet today poops out an XML
feed of some version, usuallyRSS with good reason. So it does

(34:45):
matter, and the fact thatSpotify is allowing you to
upload video that can't leavetheir their garden is dumb of on
their accord, it's dumb. Itwon't work.

Dave Jones (34:56):
I've got, you know us a. Heard the, heard these. I
heard this, this, you know,quote, unquote interview, which
kind of wasn't really that

Adam Curry (35:07):
was an email interview, and she recorded some
of the answers, which was, whichwas nice, like, you can't make
time just have little chat. Imean, they have the Spotify PR
right there to make sure youranswers were right. Or, what was
that that was? That

Dave Jones (35:20):
one thing, one thing I was unclear about is what it
sounded like they reached outand said, Hey, we're now, we're
now going to do some emailinterviews. Would you like to
ask us some questions? Oh, I

Adam Curry (35:31):
don't know. I don't know exactly how that went,

Dave Jones (35:33):
but I may have misunderstood that. Maybe James
can clarify. Maybe he asked forit. But it's that struck I think
that that struck me as odd. Butanyway, and I was sitting back
and thinking about this, thiswhole thing, and they it's
pretty obvious why. It's prettywell obvious from the beginning

(35:56):
why people want to definepodcasting as something other
than RSS based delivery. Thishas always been the case,
because if they broaden thedefinition of what a podcast is,
just like we heard from Oxfordroad from Dan Granger, it opens
up the advertising dollars thatare locked into certain channels

Adam Curry (36:15):
like YouTube and Tiktok and reels and Instagram.
Yeah.

Dave Jones (36:20):
What Granger said was, if they is, if they define
a podcast as as being also aYouTube video or, you know, etc,
then the advertising agenciesdon't have to go back and ask
for they don't have to walkacross the hall and ask for
money from that other group, sothat, I mean, that's clearly the

(36:45):
the issue there. But I justdon't think, you know, but I
think it's bigger than that. Idon't think advertise,
advertising is not a big, huge,is not a huge moneymaker for
Spotify. I don't think, I mean,we've seen their numbers.
They're recently profitable, andthey're basking in that,
clearly, and I don't what, whatalways struck me was that the

(37:07):
advertising revenue is not hugefor them. It's if without
subscribers are the bulk oftheir income. Do they need
people to pay for these? Yes.And so, you know, the people I
think this should be concerned,I've actually got a lot of
thoughts about this, more than Ithought I did. It's kind of

(37:29):
coming to me. The the peoplethat I think should be concerned
about Spotify themselves as athreat by the podcast hosting
companies, yeah, um, I don't seehow Spotify continues without
turning Spotify for podcastersinto some sort of paid, some
kind

Adam Curry (37:47):
of revenue generator, yeah, yeah. Well, the
only way, perhaps, with videosupport, you know, well, the
only thing that they can reallydo now is you upload to us, and
we jam ads in there, and we giveyou a, you know, like YouTube,
we give you a tiny, tiny bit,right? That's the only, that's
the model that clearly let mejust play this, this. This is
the last one I'll do, becauseyou can listen, you can read it,

(38:08):
links in the show notes. Jamesplayed a lot of it on podcast,
weekly review. This is the howimportant is open RSS? I just, I
just have to say it's RSS. Isthere any closed RSS? I guess
you know, private feeds, butjust say RSS to Spotify, and how

(38:29):
will you continue supporting it?Now listen to this, because she
kind of contradicts herself.

Unknown (38:34):
So obviously, one of the main benefits of podcasting
has always been that creatorscan really easily distribute
their content to multipleplatforms, and consumers have
the choice of where and how theywant to listen to it. Yes, and I
think the benefits of widedistribution for creators in
particular are more apparentthan ever. You've seen this
reflected in Spotify strategywith shows like Joe Rogan and

(38:55):
science, versus going back tobeing available everywhere.

Adam Curry (38:57):
So okay, so thank you for admitting that it was
not a good idea to have JoeRogan exclusive to Spotify and
because he couldn't make it pay.Obviously, I have no idea what
the actual deal is worth. Up tois meaningless to me. So why
then are you making your thevideo exclusive to Spotify, and

(39:21):
it can't go to anywhere you wantto play it. This is the
contradiction.

Unknown (39:26):
So we understand that RSS plays an important role in
giving creators more controlover their content, and we
definitely plan to continuesupporting both on and off
platform distribution for showsthat are hosted with Spotify, as
well as allowing podcasters tokeep distributing their content
to Spotify from other hosts overRSS. Nothing is changing there,
yeah, except for video thatsaid, do have more tools and

(39:50):
functionality on Spotify thatgoes beyond what RSS supports,
and for us, that's not aboutexclusivity. We want to be able
to keep innovating on the formatand opening up new. Avenues for
fans and creators to connectwith each other, for creators to
have options about how tomonetize and how to express
themselves and customize theirshow. So we will keep doing

(40:10):
that. But as you've noted, andhopefully most of your audience
have noticed, throughout thisyear, we're going to continue to
invest in the open ecosystem asmuch as we can. It's a really
big priority to me to make surethat all podcasters can get the
most possible value out ofSpotify. So whether it's through
RSS and through or through ourown tools, either way, that's
always our goal is just helpingpodcasters get get the most out

(40:33):
of our platform. Yeah, I just

Adam Curry (40:34):
don't believe that she's, she's, it's a lie.

Dave Jones (40:38):
My take on this is a little different. I mean, we
have to look at this in context.Look at the look at what Spotify
podcasting division was fouryears ago, and look at what it
is today. It's completelydifferent. It's tiny compared to

(40:59):
what it was. This is a companythat was putting billions of
dollars into podcasting. Now wedon't even, we don't even know
what those numbers are there.It's is insignificant to their
bottom line. Yeah. So the what,what I see here is not, I see a
company that came back down toearth as far as podcasting goes.

(41:23):
In this video, push number one,I do not trust their numbers at
all. When it comes to how manypeople want video, they say it's
like 40% Yeah, sure. I just donot. I don't I just do not. Why
don't they

Adam Curry (41:35):
have, like, only music videos? Why is it just
music tracks? They should bedoing music videos. Everyone
loves music video. Everyoneloves music videos. Everyone
wants

Dave Jones (41:44):
music videos, don't they? I think, I think they are
trying to broaden away frombeing slaves to the music
publishing company. Yes, ofcourse. And they need to flip
the script to get a measure ofcontrol over that. So like I'm
I'm gonna compliment Spotifyhere and say that I think that

(42:05):
this is a company that's good atseeing what the next hype cycle
is and taking advantage of it.That doesn't mean necessarily
jumping in with both feet. It'sjust they, they've always been
good at riding the whatever thewave is that they need to ride
to get through the next economiccycle. And

Adam Curry (42:30):
yeah, which is every three months for the next
reporting period. Yeah,

Dave Jones (42:34):
what does that say about what the next cycle is? I
mean, look at what they'redoing. They've they've just
dabbled in AI. They've notreally done a lot of serious
stuff with AI, which tells methat AI is dead cat. You know,
that's not a big priority forthem. I think they saw that.
That was a waste. They don'tcall them video podcasts. They
call it video Yeah, I don'tthink that they are, I don't

(43:00):
think ultimately they're reallyinterested in podcasters.

Adam Curry (43:03):
I can tell you whether, sorry, go ahead, does.
I

Dave Jones (43:06):
don't think they're interested in podcasters. I
think what they what they see,is the death of television, and
they're trying to positionthemselves for what that that
for what that looks like, thepost streaming world of video. I
bet you they, I bet you, withina year or two, maybe they'll

(43:29):
make, they'll start to makeplays for some video content
sports, right? I think here'swhat I think their ultimate play
is. I think they want to beAmazon Prime. They already, they
already have merch and ticketsand all these things, just like
Sam mentioned on the show,Spotify reminds me of Hulu. It's

(43:52):
a company that's that's ownedessentially by the publishing
companies, and they're forevertrying to get out of that
pigeonhole, yeah, so that theyso that they're not slaves

Adam Curry (44:03):
to that. Yeah, which they are, they're slaves
companies. So

Dave Jones (44:07):
I'm not, I'm not really that interested in their
views on RSS, because I think atthis point in time, just like
Amazon music is if they have apodcast, a podcast division that
does some stuff from time totime, but, like, if you but I
don't think that's it's reallysort of an afterthought to the
company at large. I don't reallythink that it's just not their

(44:32):
focus. I mean, like, audiobookswas just a tool that Spotify
needed to get leverage overpricing. I think podcasting is
just another tool in their bagthat they're used, that they
need, sometimes to get some sortof leverage out of it. I just
don't think ultimately they carethat much about it.

Adam Curry (44:49):
I think you're you're spot on, and kudos to
Chad F because he nails it. Whatthey should be doing next to
make money is they should becomeSpotify for only fans. You.
Should have, yeah, you should beable to do only fans live stream
on Spotify. You know, pay forit, password, protected, age
verified. They can do all of it.They should do that. They'll

(45:11):
make, they'll make billions.

Dave Jones (45:13):
Buy only fans. Yeah, well, I

Adam Curry (45:16):
think only fans out. I even out of their reach at
this point. Yeah, it's amazinghow the money they make.

Dave Jones (45:22):
I think we also forget how big Spotify is
outside of the United States,yeah, outside of the US, like
because they what they couldbecome, is they could become the
Amazon Prime, prime ofeverywhere others in the US.
Yeah,

Adam Curry (45:36):
good point. Good point. Anyway.

Dave Jones (45:41):
Yeah, yeah, good luck to them. That's a good way
to say it, because I don't, I'mjust not that interested in what
their views on RSS are. BecauseI don't think they're that
interested in what their viewson RSS I think they have a few
point Yeah, they have a fewpeople left over there who are
actually doing this work, andit's just not, I just don't

(46:01):
think they care that much. Imean, those people do, because
it's their job, but I mean thecompany at large, I just don't
it's largely uninteresting tome, and and and podcasting, RSS,
the RSS ecosystem of podcasting,which is, you know, the hosting
companies and the in the in thethe podcasters themselves, in

(46:23):
the infrastructure people, thewe're going to take care of
ourselves, yeah, because spot Imean, Spotify, may they could.
Well, this is another thing too.Is, um, we're talking about AI.
AI is, is people, people whohave built on AI hosting

(46:51):
companies and other companies.That concerns me a bit, because
that, that whole thing, but you,you sent me an article, a really
good article called The subprimeAI crisis. Yeah, that

Adam Curry (47:04):
same guy wrote a follow up to it, which is even
better. I haven't sent it to youyet, but yeah. Okay, so open AI,
in essence, for every dollarthey make, they spend $2.35
currently, currently, currently,currently, so unsustainable,
they're already talking abouteverything in technology has

(47:24):
always been to reduce costs, andevery improvement in technology
is supposed to make the systemmore cost efficient, you know,
less power consumption. Look atthe laptops. I mean, it's all
about faster processor, lowerpower consumption, longer
battery life. This

Dave Jones (47:39):
is the opposite. Yeah, these costs are going up.
Yeah, we

Adam Curry (47:43):
need thorium reactors, otherwise we can't
handle it. You know, it costs$100 million to build a large
language model, and that's justthe entry point at this at this
stage. So, and they're notcharging that, just they're not
charging the money that itcosts. I mean, open, AI is
already talking about moving,you know, they're going to

(48:03):
increase 10% to $22 a month.Ultimate goal will be $44 a
month in, you know, four or fiveyears, I think it'll go much,
much higher. And at a certainpoint, how much, how much you're
willing to pay to not write yourown description and your own
chapter titles.

Dave Jones (48:23):
That's yeah, if people have not read that
article, look good search forthe Google the search subprime
AI crisis in if you know, inthere, it says that less than 1%
of Microsoft's paying office365, customers have subscribed
to their copilot service. Yeah?Because it's expensive. It's,

(48:44):
it's very expensive, 50 bucks.Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's you.
You multiply that times a few1000 seats at your organization,
that's, that is major cash.

Adam Curry (48:54):
We got a boots on the ground the other day from a
guy who works at Epic, which isthe largest medical health
record company, and so the allthe executives are all jacked
and jitty about, oh, we all opennow we're going to integrate a
eyes can be great. $3,000 a yearper seat, 65 cents per a API

(49:14):
query. What? What? Oh, just,just 65 cents. Just to summarize
reports and then send off a hitto another API that says, okay,
pharmacy, write theprescription. In the meantime,
these doctors, they're sothey're so jacked on it, they're

(49:34):
writing their patient reports inin chat GPT, which is completely
against all HIPAA regulation.Oh, yeah,

Dave Jones (49:41):
that's, that's a travesty.

Adam Curry (49:43):
It's insane. That's all right, whatever. Meanwhile,
back yes,

Dave Jones (49:49):
no, I was just gonna say that to circle that thought
back around, is that if hosting,if podcast hosting companies and
podcast apps and, you know.They've built some really cool
stuff on AI, I guess I wouldjust warn to have a backup plan,
yeah, for how, because all ofthe, all of the material that's

(50:12):
coming out of the no matter whoyou're at, no matter who's API
you're calling, you'reultimately probably calling open
AI or anthropic. Yeah, you know,you're, you're, you're
eventually getting back to oneof those two players. And when
this thing crashes, it may govery fast, yeah, and you may not
have a you may have to rip andreplace that product. It

Adam Curry (50:36):
could bring down the economy. We're talking about,
the whole economy. Economiesbuilt on this, the hyperscalers.
We got so many data centerscoming online now they better be
ready to mine Bitcoin with it. Idon't know what else. I don't
know if you can have all this,all these AI customers, anyway,
meanwhile, also,

Dave Jones (50:54):
it's all good. No, no, no, please, no, please,
please, please. Now I was justgonna say it's also built on
another thing that this articletalked about is also all built
on intellectual property, theft,all of it. Yes, the reason it
is, the thing about a largelanguage model, I've said this
before, is that you are allthese generative models. Is that

(51:16):
the the model, the the what amodel is, it's the algorithm and
the data combined into one big

Adam Curry (51:26):
blob, yeah, like an interactive database, basically,
yes.

Dave Jones (51:31):
And so you're the reason that we the that open
AI's most advanced model doesn'tknow how many letter RS there
are in the word strawberry isbecause nobody's ever asked that
question before. Yeah, exactly.So it literally does not know,
because that data is not there,and it does re Same reason it

(51:51):
doesn't know how many statesstart, you know, have the letter
A in it, because it only knowsthe words that it's seen before.
Even worse, and it said

Adam Curry (52:00):
Wyoming, yeah, right. So the whole

Dave Jones (52:04):
notion of emergent properties and all this is
complete BS, it only knows whatit's got. The most advanced
models still give horribleanswers. And so this, this whole
thing is in being that is builton intellectual property theft.
This the same thing I've seenwith mid journey when I've been

(52:25):
using mid journey last fewweeks, is in order to get it to
give you good stuff, you have tostart giving it keywords of of
known things that you've seenbefore. You have to you have to
tell it things like, you have touse phrases like, taken with a
Nikon camera, because what thatmeans is it's going to go off

(52:48):
and begin to assemble gender isgenerative data from things like
Flickr, yeah, and things thatit's, or you'll say, you know,
in the style of Norman Rockwellor blah, blah, you start to have
to use these things, which, youknow, what you're telling it is
go over here and grab this stuffthat you scraped. So this whole

(53:10):
thing is just, it's just adisaster. It's gonna collapse.

Adam Curry (53:14):
Meanwhile, in the value verse, hot news, December
16 at the famous antones inAustin, Texas. Adam curry. Adam
Curry's booster gram ball live,December 16. No way, way. I had
a chat with open mike. He's theguy that he actually had a hand

(53:38):
in saving small venues duringcovid. So much longer story. Oh,
nice. But he, of course, set upthe Minneapolis show with just
loud and Ainsley Costello, etc,and he called me, you know, he
reached out, and he said, youknow, would you be interested
in? Well, it's been an ongoingconversation. He said, Hey, can

(54:01):
we brand this Adam Curry'sbooster Graham ball live? And I
said, Yeah, but I need somehelp, because we can't have Adam
Curry's booster Grand Ball live.If booster Graham ball is on,
you know, some kind of permanentice pack,

Dave Jones (54:18):
which just doesn't happen when he is in the
freezer, it's in

Adam Curry (54:21):
the freezer. And so, lo and behold, Jim Costello
reaches out to me the same daybefore this, before this phone
call. And I say, Jim. And so Isaid, Jim, I got to talk to you.
And I say, Jim, I realize myproblem. It's the same as no
agenda. No agenda. I haveproducers. And these producers,

(54:41):
they produce stuff, and I justhave to bring it all together,
you know, it's a very, it's avery interactive creative
process. And I also have a cohost who also is doing this
work, and, and, um, after, youknow, 17 years, we have a pretty
good flow, and we don't have ascript or anything. We just, it
just melds together and we make.Work. I need someone to do the

(55:03):
work of getting me songs. If youcan do that, I can bang out a
boost to Grand Ball. That'seasy. I you know. So give me the
songs. Give me the songs youthink are good. Here's, you
know, you know what I like, youknow, pretty much everything.

Dave Jones (55:17):
Give me 10 songs a week, you know, something like
that, 14,

Adam Curry (55:20):
actually. And, and he said, Okay, he's gonna do it.
And so starting next Wednesday,we'll do it every two weeks to
start off with, because it'sstill, it's, you know, this,
there's and also talking aboutformat, like, you can't a lot of
p, everyone likes, oh, it's thenew song. It's the new song that
that's, that's not how you buildup artists. That's not how you
make hits. So you give me 14Songs I'm going to play in in

(55:45):
one hour, I'm going to playthree songs, you already know,
and one song that goes way back,you know. So that's, that's how
radio that's how music radioformats work, that you have to
be, oh yeah. That's, oh, Irecognize that song,

Dave Jones (56:00):
you know, like a deep cut, and then stuff, you
know, and then the new stuff.It's actually

Adam Curry (56:04):
a formula for it. It's called a format block. So
you start off with a banger,then you go into recurrent,
which is between three monthsand a year old. Then you can do
something that's hot now, thenyou can do a new song, another
recurrent, you can do another,you know, there's different
formats for it, and it's triedand tested throughout the ages.

(56:26):
So I'm very excited about that,because now, because, you know,
on Wednesdays, it'll be it's forme, it's like, oh, here's the
songs. Throw them together,click the stream on go. I mean,
I don't need much morepreparation other than, okay,
let me listen to the songs thatthese are the ones that have
been chosen for me. And ofcourse, I could say, well, I
want to play this one, or I wantto change it out, or whatever,

(56:46):
you know this, I'll have theobvious freedom, but I love Jim
for doing that. And of course,the only other we had talked
about a lot of things, actually.And you know, we're, we're
fortunate that we still haveRSS, blue pod, home, wave Lake
and and fountain, because that'sthe only wallets that we can

(57:07):
really talk about, right? So,you know, we're still desperate
for the Zebedee solution, light,Spark, strike integration. We
need, we need a lot more optionsfor these other apps to tap
into, because otherwise itbecomes a very one sided story.

Dave Jones (57:28):
Yeah, but Eric asked if is phantom power music hour
still gonna go or is thatfolding into booster grand bowl?
No,

Adam Curry (57:34):
no, I think he's gonna continue to do that. Okay,
yeah, no, I would hope hedoesn't, but he understands the
problem,

Dave Jones (57:42):
and that's providence. I mean, it's
providence that he, you know,that that those two things came
together on the same day?

Adam Curry (57:49):
Yeah, yes, it is a god NOD is, as we say, Yes,

Dave Jones (57:54):
God nine, yeah, totally, totally. And

Adam Curry (57:57):
I just wanted to mention, with this project.
We're going to be talking aboutour project in a couple of
weeks, probably, but funding tagwill be a big deal. So Apps, you
may see people who have fundingtags in their in their feeds,
who are going to want to seethat surface in a way that is

(58:21):
clear to see and as interactiveas a boost button.

Dave Jones (58:27):
So I'm just saying they said, Well, we can do a
little namespace if you want to.Yeah, a

Adam Curry (58:33):
little bit of namespace. And

Unknown (58:35):
now it's time for some hot namespace talk. Okay,

Adam Curry (58:40):
I also have a song, so just for your timing,

Dave Jones (58:44):
on the, I mean, on the side, project, front, uh,
front end, sucks.

Adam Curry (58:53):
Yeah, gooey. Good. Gooey stuff is, is gooey. It's
gooey.

Dave Jones (58:58):
Oh, it's the worst. I mean, I had a problem last
night where it was I had onebehavior when, this is the
double ad thing that we're nottrying to fix, that you know
about that had one behavior whenthe dev console, Dev Tools,
console of Chrome, was open, anda different behavior when It was

(59:19):
closed. Oh, what that one to me?Wow. I think it's, I think this
is, I think it's all fixed now,but I was for about an hour and
a half. I was like, I hateeverything, and I hate the whole
world, and I'm just, I want toquit.

Adam Curry (59:37):
Don't quit.

Dave Jones (59:40):
But it's all it's all good, but face phase seven,
I just, I just polish that turdout and just just send it off
into space.

Adam Curry (59:51):
It's done. It was a turd. And you polish it. Is
that? What you're saying?

Dave Jones (59:55):
No, it's, it's fine. It's phase seven is now closed,
and I never. Want to see it orhear the term face, okay?
Because it was a long, painfulprocess, very

Adam Curry (01:00:04):
painful phase.

Dave Jones (01:00:06):
Eric, it was not caching that. I know what you're
talking about. With disablingcaches, there's a checkbox that
was, that was not, that did nothave anything to do

with it. How dare you question the pod sage,

that's the first as the first thing I did had it did
not affect this issue at all.Phase, yeah, so phase seven is
just, is done. Funding. Thefunding tag is now item level.
Item level. Yes, I

saw made that change. Stephen B made those
changes in sovereign fees, whichI highly appreciate. So he did
added also a publisher feed. Youcan, you can now be a publisher
feed. Couple other things. It'sgood. I love sovereign fees.
I've been running on it for fouryears. That was without
sovereign feeds, this projectwould be in big trouble. Oh,

(01:00:56):
yeah for sure. Because if wecan't publish the stuff that
that we're talking about. Thenwhy would anybody else? So,

yeah, bless, bless Stephen Bell, yes. So that
changed. The funding tag changesnow, now in effect, and I put
announcements on these thingsfor the only GitHub and on and
on the podcast, index, socialplant, you know. So I wanted to
talk briefly about a plan tomake the changes to the images

(01:01:26):
tag this week. We discussed thatbefore with Nathan's changes,
but this relates to Russell,Russell's, ish Russell's want of
the banner tag, and so thatwhole thing for I just want to
speak briefly about that. So thethe images tag, I'm going to

(01:01:51):
change to fit Nathan's changes,because I think that makes a lot
of sense, that can, that canexist regardless of the banner
stuff. So the banner stuff doesnot. It does because those
changes are being made doesn'tmean that you can't have a tag
called banner um. So don't gettoo upset about that, but it it

(01:02:13):
got me thinking about a plan forthe for things like the banner
tag. So and what I mean is, whatI mean is that we have
situations that come up likethis sometimes, and we always
will, where somebody likeRussell just he's already got

(01:02:36):
code that's written. He'sthinking in a particular way
about his use case and the wayit solves his problems. Yep, and
he's like, I just seriouslythink this is the right way to
do things. And we may have a ahonest to God, difference of

(01:02:58):
opinion within within the

group. Well, pod ID is a fine example of that. He's
basically already coding that.Yeah,

right. And so, and I think, you know, I'm not sure
exactly what he's doing, but Ithink we're, I think we can,
like, make that work in person.Yeah,

he's, he's creating a new way of doing the person
tag, which is fine,

you know, that's that sounds fine to me for IDs
or whatever, but, but it got methinking about, what do we do in
those circumstances? Because,you know, I'm never, I don't
like to, I don't like any Idon't like any project to be

(01:03:43):
like, there's one person whogets to win that doesn't feel
communal to me. No, but at thesame time, there's there needs
to. We are making sort of a, weare making a reference. Is this

your? Is this your dei pitch that you're about to
do? Yes,

yeah, yeah. So we have quotas, so the so I'm
trying to, I'm trying to find away to marry those things
together. I specifically did notuse the word standard because I
don't think that the namespaceis a standard. I think it's a
reference. It's a reference tosay, if you want to put this

(01:04:26):
type of information in yourfeed, here's the way to do it.
And when you think about it asthat, then you can say, Well,
okay, a standard means that thatI'm gonna I'm gonna have to do
it this way, or else nobody'sgonna be able to look and see my
stuff right? A reference is morelike, here's the way you can do

(01:04:53):
it, and this will make sense ifother people write their stuff

to do. Read it yet, to decode it, right?

If we're all looking at the same as long as we're all
looking at the same referenceimplementation, then we'll all
be able to read the same stuff.So this got me thinking about
sort of an, like, a quote,unquote appendix. So, you know,
we have things like, we willhave things like the images tag

(01:05:23):
and funding tag and all the andblah, blah, blah. But if we're
we could also have like an, sortof an, I don't know if appendix
is the right thing to call it,but some other section of the
document that says, Hey, theseare not things that have been
formally adopted into thenamespace XML and s document,

(01:05:47):
but these are other tags thatare in the wild that use the
podcast namespace. So they hereare some. Here are some other
examples of tags that we haveseen that we know are in use,
that we want you to know thatyou may encounter. So in that,

(01:06:08):
in that respect, you could havesome, some and the reason I
think this is important, youcould have some player, excuse
me, some feed producers that usea tag, and we know this is
already the case in slot, youknow, they use a tag in slightly

(01:06:31):
the wrong way, and that could bedocumented so that we just are
all aware that this is the case.It could be that. Look, you may,
you may see this tag, this thingcalled a banner tag. We know
that this thing is in usebecause it meets a particular
need. When you see it, here'swhat to do with it, even though

(01:06:55):
the reference is not saying wewould, you know, we think that
the way to do a banner is thisway. It's really, I guess what
I'm saying is it's a way for thereference that is the namespace,
to stay a little lessopinionated. And I know that's
going to drive people nuts,because people love to nerd.

(01:07:18):
Nerds love to be superopinionated about stuff, but I
don't know if you think aboutit, I don't know that that's
ever been the way that we'veapproached this. And I feel like
this is a way that where peoplecould satisfy their own needs

(01:07:39):
and also have

a place where that right and then say, Okay, this
is, this is what I'm doing.Here's how you read it. This is
how this is how it's this is howit's happening.

Yeah, so think about, think about it this way.
It's on. It's not that muchdifferent than what already
happens in the world ofnamespaces. There's a Media
namespace, there's an iTunesnamespace, there's a podcast
namespace, there's a Dublin Corenamespace, there's all these
namespaces, and some of themhave over overlapping
functionality. The media theMedia namespace has a thumbnail

(01:08:14):
tag, the iTunes namespace has animage tag. Podcast, Sethi

and Daniel J Lewis are going to create millions of
references. I

feel like we just open the open the barn door and
let Sam run out with you know,on a stallion, he's going to go
nuts now, but it you we alreadyhave these different namespaces
that have sometimes overlappingtag functionality, and what we
have is a reference for all ofthem that says, Okay, if you see

(01:08:49):
this thing, here's how youhandle it. If you see this other
thing, here's how you handle it.If you see this other if you see
media thumbnail, here's what youdo with do these things

eventually migrate into the namespace. If there's
broad adoption,

I don't think they have to. I mean, they're
already, once we do they'realready essentially, if we do it
this way, they're essentiallythere already, you because that
that's what this is, sort of aformalizing of community. Okay,
here's a perfect example,Stephen Bell. Stephen Bell added

(01:09:26):
in an attribute to the live itemtag that was not, that was not
supposed to be there, right?That's the the web socket, the
chat URL. Oh, right, yes, yes,yes, for live, for IRC, that
was, that was an attribute hepurely made up and just stuck it
in there himself. It was neverin the standard. It was never in

(01:09:47):
the, excuse me, the namespace.But everybody saw it, and
everybody knew how to handle it,and so pod verse started using
it too, and that's what, that'swhat I'm saying those. Kinds of
things. When we see them happen,they could be documented in a
separate part of the namespacethat says, here's some things

(01:10:08):
that you may see that will fallunder the podcast name, that
will be claiming to be a part ofthe podcast namespace, even
though they've never gonethrough the formalization
process. And I think that that'sfine.

I'm good with it. If you're good with it, I'm

good with it, as long as we document it, yeah.
Then the reference stays what itis a reference.

It's about to get real fun everybody.

I don't think it will. I

really don't see it's gonna be fun. Because
people see you kind of as the asthe guy who's like, oh, well,
we're gonna put this in thenamespace or not. You watch.
It's gonna be interesting,

you know? And that's the thing that I'm trying to
tame a little bit. I don't, Idon't necessarily want to be the
guy.

I understand. You're good. We like you as dictator.
You're good people likedictators, don't you know that?

Oh, yes, I've heard this. But I think, I think that
this was, this is a and I'm notsimply trying to be to find
compromise. I just think, Ithink it's a good idea. I think
it's already happening, and Ithink this is a way to
acknowledge that it's happening,and in a way that doesn't make
anybody lose their mind, yeah,and get mad at each other and

(01:11:23):
stuff. Well,

this is the perfect moment to play some music. I
don't know why, but it justfeels, it feels like the perfect
moment so we can all justreflect on that. Tony Salamone
released some fresh music intothe value verse, and it's kind
of one of those Friday jams, youknow, like, let's shred a little
bit already. This is unleash onpodcasting 2.0 remember to

(01:11:48):
boost.

Unknown (01:11:49):
I guess this is goodbye.
We know it's been a long timecoming, but now we gotta fight.
Yes, we've been keeping ourdemons hit us. There's fire in

(01:12:11):
your words, and I know it'sgotta hurt buttons in your
mouth, and if You want to, youcan let it out. Something's
changing.

(01:12:59):
Boost we victims to our face?
Am I guilty or just the first towalk away? But now you're
talking down to me, and it makesme kind of glad I didn't say
Show me your words that

(01:13:38):
It show me your words.

(01:14:21):
I show my got a hold on for me,thank.

Unleash, oh yes, your weekend has officially
started.

That's some good riffs. Yeah, as

a, as the as a C loss on Linux, boosted, wow. Ai,
music has gotten really good. Hesays that's not a, of course,
not, of course not as good asgreat risk. That's

good stuff. Yeah, yeah. Miss booster, Grand Ball.

Well, it's coming back, baby, Wednesday.
Wednesday, taking

it out of the freezer.

Okay, yes, yes, we're going to thaw it out.
Let's thank some people, aswe're still in the summer.
Summer hours here, the summerhours over, Dave's got to get
back to work. Randall black,1000 SATs for unleash, right
there. Heard on podcasting, 2.0hashtag V for v is the only way
that's right. I just read C losson Linux with his 2000 SATs. We

(01:16:08):
have 1776 from salty crayonhowdy boardroom. Another big
shout out to Eric PP. He washelping myself sir libre and
Kevin bay from SATs and sounds,with some minor issues of Alby
hub talking to helipad inregards to how boostograms show
up when they are funkypercentages, or however the
splits read from the different Vfor V apps running with boost

(01:16:30):
sauce. All good. That'sinteresting because I just got
one Satoshi from IPFSpodcasting, and it says it was a
200% split. So maybe that's theissue they're talking about.

You get, you're getting splits over 100%
amazing. It's

amazing. 500 from Randall black. What time will
boost the ground ball? Live bestarting. I'm thinking 3pm on
Wednesday. I think that's a freeslot on the stream, if not, but
it'll be on both streams. I'llhave the my own stream and the
no agenda stream. See lost inLinux again, 6969 bro, if you
don't have 4 million YouTubesubs, are you even a real
podcaster? No 187 million ticktock views. Actual failure,

(01:17:11):
dude. Yeah, exactly. Uh, hey,citizen, 6969 how many stats to
unlock? The IRC premium skinsand chat icons? That's funny.
Silas, again, 1000 SATs, I alsodraw on white boards. Okay?
Salty crayon, 333, his favoriteone is, it's harp. Yes, that's

(01:17:32):
right, that's that was from ourdiscussion about hurricane
Helene, hi from the blueberrystaff retreat in Florida. Says
Mike Dell 1701, with his hisStar Trek. Boost. Go podcasting.
Booberry, 3333 ah, a promo.Catch, legendary concert and
Podcast Producer, Chad F onbowls with buds tonight, found

(01:17:53):
in the bowl after bowl feed orbowl after bowl.com. 7pm
Central, right on. Chad,advertising, that's right.
Boost, for taisman 1000 fromChad F and let's see. Then we
had it was all test stuff thatcame in early. I do a pre stream
about 10 after 12 central timeto get everything, everybody

(01:18:15):
into the mood, make sure allsystems are working. And I hit
the delimiter. So what you goton your list?

Dave, just following up on that on air stuff with
Eric PP, yes, Eric PP is alwaysjumping in to fix, to help fix
stuff. I also also want to saythat David marzol and Steven
crater constantly jump in tofix, to fix all kinds of they do
all kinds of pull requests forthe web, for the website, oh,

(01:18:43):
cool, and stuff like that. Andit's very, very helpful. And
fixing, fixing bad feeds in theindex and stuff. I just wanted
to say, much appreciated. Yeah,we got some. We got got a
PayPal. We got one PayPal. Ohno, you know who it is. Yes, I

(01:19:08):
give up. Oscar Mary, $200.20

inch Blaze only Impala. Thank you very much,
Oscar. Mary, appreciate thatkeeping the index running.
Brother, thank you.

We got some booster. Grams, we got odd. Odyssey West,
okay. Odyssey Westra dash,nostr. Odyssey, Westra, Nostra,
okay.

Zapping, five zapping, 5000 says, Okay, I
don't know. I don't know. Don'tknow how it works.

5000 stats through fountain. He says, Great show
you guys have, I love to hearabout the behind the scenes work
when it comes to podcasting. 2.0with regards, with regards to
with auto generating voices forpodcasting. This is happening
with YouTube shorts and a lot ofsummary type videos for movies
and show. Those, I wouldn't besurprised. The same thing is

(01:20:02):
happening in podcasting. You'reall right, though, for me, I do
prefer the personal touch withpodcasts, so hopefully it will,
it won't be as big of an issueas it is on video sharing sites.
Gene Everett 3333 throughfountain, he said for the
episode, grep pipe, he says.

He says, boost boost boost, yeah, boost boost boost
boost boost boost boost. Thereit is.

Cole McCormick, 2222 through fountain. He says, I saw
that Forbes article and thoughtit was great, except for Frank,
the author, calling V for Vtipping. Yes,

I know it hurt me too, but I looked at it when you
know, you know, it's better thannothing.

I also want to share with the boardroom that I'm
producing videos for pod home onYouTube and other socials. Look
for the podcast. Normie, YouTubechannel. Videos will be up
weekly. Go podcasting.

Oh, podcast. Normie. Go podcasting. You. Casting.

Gene bean, 2222 through fountain. He says the
person href is not suitable asan identifier because sometimes
the link goes to a page, likethe staff page of a church,
instead of a page for the singleperson. This means all staff
members get the same URL. Goodpoint. Now it's a good point.

(01:21:24):
And this also is,

is a that's publisher error in my in my
book. Well,

I was go, I was going there. But, you know, this
is sort of like one of thosethings where people are going to
do stuff the wrong way.

Yes, it happens in all tags, every single tag

and and I can see what he's trying to say is stay
as far away from from allowingpeople to do things the wrong
way as you can. So like that, Ithink, and I think I understand
the spirit of what he's saying,and I think that's a good point,
that if you, if you have an openhref, then you're making it

(01:22:11):
pretty easy to just not do theright thing, right because I
keep going back to Tom Rossi'sthing that he said, If you stick
an empty text box on a page,somebody's going to stick
something in. Something in it,yeah, for sure, what it is you
don't know. You never know. Younever know. That's true. Okay,
the message heard Geneva, okay.5000 sets from G anonymous

(01:22:33):
through fountain, he says, Partyon Wayne. Party on Garth. Grep,
cut. F3, dash six. Dash D,comma, boom, pipe, grab the
pipe, sort and your dataanalyst. Golf, Victor, Lima,

I'm in total agreement.

I'm gonna have to run that command through,

right? Don't do it as root, whatever you do. No,

I'm all fair, okay. Delimiter, commentary. Blogger,
25,000 SATs Duke fountain, hesays, howdy. Fellow microphone
connoisseurs, Adam and Dave, I'dlike to invite your audience to
subscribe to a podcast calledbandrew says, podcast available
at www dot geeksrising.com/bandru, says, both in

(01:23:23):
audio and video and on YouTube,Andrew is talking there about
vital content content creatortopics including polishing
microphone sound quality toachieve total microphone bliss
is Separate from his superpopular, huge microphone review
YouTube channel, podcastage, yo.CSB, oh,

I'll have to check out his his content creator
topics, podcast on YouTube. I

thought he was about to say that he's covering topics
such as polishing yourmicrophone.

That actually helps polishing I always polish my mic
before I start. I'm a big, goodproponent of polishing the mic.

Yeah, just the top, just just the

top, just the tip.

And what do we got? We got some monthly so we've got
Cameron rose, $25 Pedro gun,Calvin's $5 Kevin Bay, five
bucks. Chad Farrow, Chad F, 22$20.22 Brendan from pod page, we
got to get Brendan on the show,right? Oh,

definitely, definitely, definitely, we have
Daniel. Daniel J, next week Isee

Yeah. DJ L, coming live on the show. Now, did

he? Did he just badger you long enough until you
gave in. You're like, okay, no,

no, he did not. I reached out of my own volition.
There was no pressure. I'm

just kidding. Just kidding. Daniel J, just kidding.

I was I was doing, I was driving to work, and I
thought, and I had an epiphany,

need Daniel. Need more. Daniel J, Lewis, yeah,
need

more. DJ L, and then I. Reached out, and he was like,
Yep, let's do it. Excellent.Excellent. Mark Graham, $1 New
Media $1 Randall black $5 andJoseph Morocco, $5 that's our
group.

Thank you very much, everybody for your boost, for
your PayPals. We are a value forvalue operation here as who said
that? Someone said it here,well, I'm looking for it. It was
a Pfeiffer said you can tipthrough value for value. But not
all value for value is tippingvarious dudes if you want to

(01:25:32):
find out more value for value.Number four, value, dot info.
And thanks for keepingeverything running your your
support is keeping the indexrunning everything that goes
along with it. We're able toopen up big, big boy channels to
people when they need them. Sowe're happy to help. We're here
today. It's, it's so odd, man,we had a follow up call with did

(01:25:55):
we talk about that? Was it thisweek? When we do have the, we
have that follow up call this?No, I I talked to, I talked to
KJ, I did a follow up with him.And, and it's so hard for these
commercial companies when wesay, you know, we don't really
need any money. You know, wedon't want a business
relationship with you, but ifyou're taxing our machines,
we'll probably say, hey, youknow, can you, can you flip some

(01:26:17):
money our way so we can putanother machine in that they
find it so it's so hard for themto understand. I

hate contracts. I never want to sign one. I just
can we just always dohandshakes. I'm with you. I'm
with you. Nods, nods and winksand handshakes. That's fine with
me.

Let me nod and wink and shake your hand right now.
Dave Jones, I got you out fourminutes early. How beautiful is
that? Oh,

that's beautiful. All right, boardroom.

Thank you very much for being here, brother, Dave,
have yourself a great weekend.You too, man, and we will be
back next week, same time, samebat channel, podcasting 2.0
where we discuss the future ofpodcasting. Be here. You know
you want it. You

Unknown (01:27:09):
podcasts are cool. You have been listening to
podcasting 2.0 visit podcastindex.org for more information.
I like to boost my ballspodcasting. You.

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