Episode 198: Domain Experts

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adam Curry (00:00):
Podcasting 2.0 for October, 25 2024 episode 198,
domain experts. Hey everybody.We're back. It feels like it's
been a week or two. It is timefor podcasting 2.0 the official
board meeting of all thingspodcasting, everything is going

(00:20):
on at podcast index on socialand boy, was there a lot going
on. We got all kinds of coolthings to discuss. We are, of
course, the only boardroom thattriggers your podcast app split
alert. I'm Adam curry here inthe heart of the Texas Hill
Country and in Alabama, the manwho was always compliant with
FinCEN regulations. Say hello tomy friend on the other end, Mr.

(00:41):
Dave Jones,

Dave Jones (00:45):
let's see Chad F says, rip, rip. Boost bot. What
happened to the boost

Adam Curry (00:51):
bot? You know, I don't know. The boost bot ran
out of channel liquidity, and Iopened a new channel three weeks
ago, and then somehow, just asgone, went offline.

Dave Jones (01:06):
I don't know who's in charge. Who's the who's the
VP in charge of who's the

Adam Curry (01:11):
Yes, exactly. Can we have, can we have some
accountability please here?Who's in charge of the boost
box? It's been down. I mean, Ithink it was up for that week
when I opened up the channel. Ijust don't know who's in charge
of it. Cotton Gin is reachingout to reaching out. C dubs

Unknown (01:28):
reaching out. It's probably,

Adam Curry (01:30):
you know, a Raspberry Pi somewhere sitting
in a corner, and, you know,something went wrong and
somebody didn't notice. I mean,that's usually how those things
go.

Dave Jones (01:38):
Got a bad SD card?

Adam Curry (01:40):
Oh, man, I, I gave up on the Raspberry Pi. I really
had to give up on it. I mean,that was my first lightning
node, which is now four yearsago, more than four years ago,
and a certain point, it's justlike, ah, there was always
something going on with it.

Dave Jones (01:58):
From day one, I never went the Raspberry Pi rat,
I always had a real look, a realbox, like a small form factor
box. I

Adam Curry (02:04):
know you've got a real box, baby.

Dave Jones (02:08):
It did not save me from running out of disc space,
but it did save me from otherthings.

Adam Curry (02:15):
Well, then I got the the Bitcoin machines, which is
basically a Raspberry Pi in anenclosure, but it's factory
built, and, and and then, so youhave to add a an external SSD
drive to it with a USB. Andthat's like, the number one

(02:35):
thing that Raspberry Pi sayswon't work. It's like, don't be
adding external SSDs because thepower supply can't handle it,
and there's all these issues.And I just tried that. Then I
ordered another one, and theytook my bitcoin money and never
sent it to me. And then, okay, Igive up on these guys. And then
I went, start nine, and startnine. I think I've had to reboot

(02:58):
it because of an issue once inover a year, and I don't and it
was like maybe Tor somehow itlost the Tor circuit, but it was
still receiving streaming SATsand everything. I just couldn't
get to it. So it could have beenanything else. That thing is
just rock solid. I love it.

Dave Jones (03:15):
The the start nine is that you have, is that on
their own hardware. Yeah, onyour own? No, no,

Adam Curry (03:22):
they, they sent me one. Okay, yeah. And, you

Dave Jones (03:26):
know, I had a whole fancy box, or whatever. That was
just a

Adam Curry (03:29):
box, you know, but I had a whole chat with the CEO,
and, you know, that's how we gothelipad and all these other
things starting to run on it,and, and the IPFS podcasting. So
it's all, it's all part of theyou know, so we're arm's length,
arm's length, arm's length, man,I I have to share this email

(03:53):
that came in

Dave Jones (03:56):
the look at podcast index. Email, no,

Adam Curry (03:58):
it actually came out. Came into Adam at Curry
com, okay, and and I read it,and I and I had to immediately
forward it to Dvorak, who thencalled the guy and got the
details. Listen to this. Hey,Adam and John, your latest
episode. Oxymoronic. Was afascinating dive into media
deconstruction. The mention ofthe 1699 club stood out as a

(04:23):
clever Community BuildingInitiative. And I couldn't help
but think of how AshleyMatheson, with her 8 million
fans, would bring a freshperspective to the conversation.

Dave Jones (04:33):
Oh, this is AI, yes,

Adam Curry (04:35):
of course it is. So I see this because obviously
that you got the ox, first ofall, you got Adam and John
somehow from scraping something.Then you got, yeah, transcript,
oxymoronic from an episodetitle, but then the mention of
the 1699 Club, which is in thecredits. If someone donates the
show number, then you thenyou're in the 1699 club. So the

(04:57):
AI interpreted that as a club.Ever Community Building
Initiative,

Dave Jones (05:03):
not wrong. And

Adam Curry (05:06):
so now, of course, we don't have guests on the
show. Never had. So okay, so Isend this to John, and now I'm
like, listen, look at this. Aicrap. So Dvorak reaches out to
him, and it turns out this guyuses something called pod pitch.
Pod pitch.com, pitch. Listen tothis pitch podcast easier and

(05:30):
faster than ever before. Stopwasting time looking for
relevant and active podcasts.Pod pitch is the first and only
PR platform that actuallyremoves work from your podcast
pitching, and it's all done withAI. It's amazing.

Dave Jones (05:46):
Save 13 hours per week and get better results.

Adam Curry (05:49):
Get your team on 3.84719193 3,000,847. 193
podcasts. How many do we have?This is actually 4.2 Hmm. So
they, they claim that they have,what is it? Let me see what it

(06:09):
is. How

Dave Jones (06:10):
are you going to get yourself on 3.9 million podcasts
this? This

Adam Curry (06:15):
is that's obviously bullcrap. There's just,

Dave Jones (06:19):
there's only, there's only 440,000 that have
published an episode in the lastthree months.

Adam Curry (06:25):
We have every podcast host name and verified
email address that's over 3.8million email addresses. Boy,
I'm glad we took it out of theRSS feeds

Dave Jones (06:37):
that Okay, wait, this is boy, this is such a bull
crap right off. This is sountrue. 3.8 million verified,

Adam Curry (06:47):
verified, verified, verified, that's right, that's
that's

Dave Jones (06:51):
not even, that's not even possible. One point over 2
million of those are going to beanchor, and they don't have an
email. They have an email, butit's a it's an anchor at
something. It's like it's anobscured email address that most
of the time doesn't even worklike that this, this is a
complete lie to begin with,because it's not. There's no way

(07:13):
they verified that many peoplelisten

Adam Curry (07:15):
to all this stuff they've got. We count each and
every episode that podcastspublish in real time, plus the
length and how frequently theypublish new ones. We count the
length of every episode and howfrequently, oh, that's the same
thing. We have real time orclose approximated listener
count data for each podcast inthe database.

Dave Jones (07:38):
Listener count. This is not what they're claim. What
they're claiming is notpossible.

Adam Curry (07:44):
Yeah, well, they're using it. They got through to
me. They got my attention.

Dave Jones (07:48):
I wonder. Okay, here's my best guess at what's
happening here. Yeah, there I, Ibet you. And I know they're not
using us, no, but they don'tthink they can be because we're
I would have seen them first ofall, but I think my guess is

(08:09):
they're using pod chaser. That

Adam Curry (08:12):
was my listen to this. Listener demographics, the
pod pitch, AI engine. AI engineaccess vast listener data, such
as gender, age, location,consumer type, consumer type.
What kind of consumer type areyou? Dave Jones,

Dave Jones (08:31):
the one, the one who eats crappy milk

Adam Curry (08:34):
and more. Our in house, AI engine generates a
score to match you to everypodcast in our database based on
your experience and personalgoals. Wow.

Dave Jones (08:48):
The reason I say A, the reason I say pod chaser, is
because there's only, there'sreally only. There's only three
directories that this, that theycould possibly get stuff like
this from now. They can't get,okay, yeah, they can't get email
addresses from us, but theycould. They could take our dump

(09:13):
and then go and fetch the feedsand parse the XML themselves and
grab, grab all the emailaddresses to fill in that hole.
And that's what we tell peopleto do. We're like, we're not
going to give it to you. You gotto go do the work yourself. And
they don't, sorry, and butthere's only two other places I
could think of that this stuffwould that this data would come

(09:35):
from. One would be listen notes,yeah, and the other would be pod
chaser. But I don't, but listennotes doesn't, to my knowledge,
give out like any sort ofdemographic data that sounds
more pod chasery to me. Well,the

Adam Curry (09:52):
bottom line is, it's it doesn't work because they
pitch an interview to a podcastthat has never had an. View in
its existence. So the AI isbroken no matter what, no matter
what.

Dave Jones (10:07):
If you're building a system like that, it seems to me
that the first thing that youwould do is build into the model
to try to determine from thelanguage of the podcast if they
actually have guests or notfirst, I'm just throwing that
out there, yeah. How

Adam Curry (10:27):
does pod pitch work? We meticulously created the
world's largest database ofpodcasts. Okay? Pitching
utilizing, oh, here it is, AIdriven messaging, yeah. So they
go in, they look at the shownotes, and then that's the
drivel that came out as AIdrivel messaging not driven AI
drivel. Messaging is this reallyAI driven messaging? You send

(10:51):
tailored pitches via email.Every email is 100% unique, yet
uniquely awful. Oh, man, allright. Well, it says

Dave Jones (11:00):
they have, we have the title and description of
every active podcast as enteredby the host on Apple podcasts
and Spotify, as entered by thehost on Apple podcasts and
Spotify, right? So that's justyour description. That's just
your description. But it's funnythough, that that they say Apple
podcasts and Spotify,

Adam Curry (11:23):
because you enter your description there, but
that's

Dave Jones (11:26):
already in the feed. Why would they what? Why would
they say, I don't know Applepodcasts and spot I don't know

Adam Curry (11:31):
if we should talk about this too long. I'm getting
frustrated. These guys suck

Dave Jones (11:41):
this. It's just, well, it's, at the very least we
can say they're they're justspamming pod. Well, they're
spamming the podcast. And

Adam Curry (11:48):
that's okay. I thought it was just funny. It's
like, Come on, man. He's like,you've never listened to the
show. It's obvious. And thenthis AI sent this flowery
language. So Devorah calls theguy, and the guy says, You are
the first people who picked upon that, it's aI really, yeah,

Dave Jones (12:05):
that was obvious to me within the first sentence,
Yeah,

Adam Curry (12:08):
isn't that cool?

Dave Jones (12:12):
This is AI slot. This way. This is

Adam Curry (12:14):
it. This is the AI slot. That's right, that's
right. Oh

Dave Jones (12:17):
yeah, I was actually, I was reading Spotify.
Let me see,

Adam Curry (12:24):
let me kick. By the way, the guy's name

Dave Jones (12:27):
is the guy who's

Adam Curry (12:29):
Yeah, who sent it is Brian gross, okay, okay, Brian
gross, from gross media,

Dave Jones (12:38):
big se. I was reading this, this document on
that, I think James, I'm prettysure James linked to this about
engineer is from Spotifyengineering, from their R D
thing. It says the title ofthis. Let me grab the URL so I
can post it over there. Thetitle is how we generated

(13:01):
millions of content,annotations,

Unknown (13:03):
annotations, annotations.

Dave Jones (13:06):
Let me post that over there into the boardroom.
Yeah. So this, they don't say,they don't say exactly what this
is, but this is sort of, this ishow they tag suspect content,
you know, questionable contentand and it goes through and kind

(13:32):
of shows their process of howthey built their their system,
which was interesting to me,because This is what Todd talks
about a lot. Where they, theyhave so many, they just are
pumping out takedown notices allthe time,

Adam Curry (13:46):
yes, well, not just, yeah. Well, they take it down,
and then they notify the hostthey've taken it down, right? Is
the way I understand it, yeah.

Dave Jones (13:55):
And so this is, this is the this was interesting to
me, because I'm like, Okay,well, let's see how, what have
they built to make that happen?And they go, they go through
here, and it's, it's a machinelearning model. It's interesting
to me that they do not mention,they only mention AI once in
here, like generative AI.They're, they're very focused on

(14:19):
a traditional machine learningapproach. And again, you know,
I'll again say that that'snotable, because I feel like
Spotify is a very forwardlooking sort of hype engine
company. And if they're notreally talking about generative

(14:41):
AI that much, then that kind oftells you where we're at, you
know, and they're, they'resaying, you know, they're not
using that terminology or thethey're just using traditional
machine learning, which I meanmachine learning is, it is a
real thing. It makes, it makessense. Been around for a long
time. Yeah, sure. You just, butyou know, you're. Training a
model, and then you're justrunning it through, and you're

(15:02):
all in, sort of implicit inthis, in machine learning, is
that you're it embraces the factthat you know that it's not
going to be 100% accurate. Andthat's that's just built into
machine learning itself. So theygo a couple of things that stood
out to me is they said we use,we also use machine learning to

(15:24):
analyze podcast, audio, videoand metadata to identify
platform policy violations. Sothat's what this is. This is
how. Now I don't know how, ifthey've been using this for a
long time, or if, or if this isfairly recent, but this is how

(15:45):
they ident, identify things toflag for content, for their
platform policy violations. Andso then what they're what
they're saying is they gothrough it says we wanted to
improve the data collectionprocess to be more efficient and
connected, and to include theright context for engineers and

(16:05):
domain experts to operate moreeffectively.

Adam Curry (16:10):
Well, to me, it sounds like this is how they
check pod, because I know a lotof people are getting takedown
notices or episodes beingremoved for licensed music,
which could even be, you know,like a jingle or something, or
even something you've licensedhonestly. I mean, I know tons of
churches who pay for theirworship music licenses. They get

(16:33):
taken off of Facebook all thetime, all the time, then they
have to contest that. Oh, we'resorry, and they get put back on

Dave Jones (16:41):
this. This seems like says we we increase the
corpus of annotations. I thinkwhat do they mean by annotations
is like tagging, tagging, cutcertain content on their system,
about what they think aviolation was. And I'm not sure
that this shows up publicly. Ithink it's probably an internal

(17:03):
thing. So like, it would be sortof like a community notes in
Twitter, but internal for theirown people to see. It says we
increased the corpus ofannotations about 10 times, and
did so with three times theimprovement in annotator
productivity. Oh,

Adam Curry (17:18):
annotator productivity. Nice.

Dave Jones (17:22):
We established large, yeah, we established a
large scale expert is, this iswhat kind of got me. We
established large scale experthuman workforces, now in several
domains. So what, immediately,when I, when I hear, we
establish large scale experthuman workforces. Oh, I know

Adam Curry (17:41):
what that means. It's AI, 1000 Indians, yeah,
anonymous Indian AI, anonymousIndians, right?

Dave Jones (17:47):
It's, it's the Amazon 1000 Indians approach,
yes, yeah. In several weestablished large scale expert
human workforces in severaldomains to address our growing
use cases with multiple levelsof experts. They use the word
expert a lot, including thefollowing, core annotator
workforces. These workforces aredomain experts who provide first

(18:11):
pass review of all annotationcases. Quality analysts. Quality
analysts are top level domainexperts who act as the
escalation. Oh, wait, this is

Adam Curry (18:20):
Spotify. Yes, this is Spotify, who was actually
making a profit after theyfiled, fired all of the podcast
people now that now they'rehiring Indians, anonymous
Indians at 15 bucks an hour, ifthat may be eight, it's

Dave Jones (18:35):
not anonymous Indians. These are domain,
expert level domain, yes,

Adam Curry (18:38):
core top level domain, like.fm or which top
level domain are the ends?

Dave Jones (18:43):
Yeah, dot link, who act as the escalation point for
all ambiguous or complex casesidentified by the core annotator
workforce. So this is like leveltwo, and then you have project
managers. This includesindividuals who connect
engineering and product teams tothe workforce, establishing and
maintaining training materialsand organize feedback on data

(19:05):
collection strategies. Oh, my,this, this is, it's interesting
to see a glimpse into how theirinternal process looks, where it
looks like what's happening isthey've created this ML model
that scrapes all of their datainternally, tags it with an
annotation, and then delivers itto the to the Indian workforce,

(19:33):
who then, who then goes throughand just, I imagine, it's
probably just like a like anassembly line. They're just
like, review, review, review,swipe left, slide, swipe right.
Oh,

Adam Curry (19:43):
yeah, yeah, dog, cat,

Dave Jones (19:48):
yeah, exactly, yeah. Like, what was that? Uh, what
was the thing that? Uh, Paul Etoy. That's

Adam Curry (19:54):
exactly what it was. Yeah, he was, he was training,
stock works. Was training. Uh.AI image recognition. So the
dog, dog car for cameras, likering cameras, yeah,

Dave Jones (20:07):
except every, like, maybe every 200 uh, swipes, you
get a mate, you get a, I'm notsure, maybe, and you tap that
you know, you swipe up, orsomething that you know this,
this feels like exactly whatwhat this is, but that that's
that makes sense, because I betyou, the hit rate on this thing
is just all over the map.They're probably taking stuff

(20:30):
down all the time. That is justlike, not that's just false
positives, false false hits,because it's all there's so much
automation. Here Did you

Adam Curry (20:41):
see Satya Nadella of Microsoft with his his
presentation of their AI stuff?No, oh, man, this was my
favorite. My favorite quote fromthe entire presentation. We're

Unknown (20:54):
using AI to build AI to build better AI. There

Adam Curry (20:57):
you go. There you go. And so, not to be outdone by
Google's notebook, LM, podcast,oh, we can do that now with with
Microsoft, you can do you cancreate podcasts. It's really
fantastic. Notebook. Lm, comeon. We're Microsoft, and they,

(21:19):
and they literally created theClippy of AI generated podcast.
Listen to this. Welcome

Unknown (21:26):
back. Listeners. This is Dan, and today we're diving
into a topic that's especiallyrelevant for those of you with
busy schedules, embracing AI incontent consumption,

Adam Curry (21:39):
content this is so unnatural. This we'll be
discussing how AI tools

Unknown (21:43):
are helping us consume diverse content more
efficiently, and how they'remaking a big difference in our
personal and professionalgrowth. Anna, have you ever
found yourself struggling tokeep up with all the content you
want to consume because of yourbusy schedule?
Absolutely. Dan, finding thetime to consume all the content

Dave Jones (22:02):
Absolutely. Dan, yes,

Unknown (22:04):
it gets better content we're interested in can be a
real struggle, especially whenjuggling a busy schedule. That's
why I'm so excited about theways.

Adam Curry (22:15):
Doesn't she sound excited? I'm so excited. That's

Unknown (22:19):
why I'm so excited about the ways AI is helping us
adapt content to our needs. Forinstance, AI tools like text to
podcast converters are gamechangers. They're

Adam Curry (22:30):
game changers. Oh, god,

Unknown (22:34):
it's definitely changing the game.

Adam Curry (22:36):
It is changing the game.

Unknown (22:38):
They allow us to transform articles and other
text into audio formats we canlisten to while multitasking,
like during a commute or whiledoing chores.

Adam Curry (22:47):
I mean, don't I want to shoot myself after listening
to 30 seconds of this podcast?This horrible what

Dave Jones (22:53):
I hate it. I hate this new thing of trying to make
uh, ai ai personalities soundlike they're they're real
people. Yes, it's not just stop,stop, stop, like, yeah, I was
thinking this morning. It'slike, No, you weren't. You're
not real.

Unknown (23:13):
Oh, man,

Dave Jones (23:14):
this is acting. This is automated acting. Is what?
This is

Adam Curry (23:19):
this? Uh, yeah, I'm all for it.

Dave Jones (23:22):
I'm reading this book called, listen liberal.

Unknown (23:31):
Oh boy.

Dave Jones (23:31):
It's written by this guy named Thomas Frank. He wrote
he's pretty

Adam Curry (23:39):
famous. Sounds familiar? Thomas Frank,

Dave Jones (23:41):
yeah, he's, he's written a few very, you know,
kind of bestseller books. He's,he's, he's sort of a, he's very
traditional left, you know, leftwing political science, common,
I guess you call him acommentator. I think he's like
a, maybe a history professorsomewhere. I don't remember

(24:03):
exactly, but really famous bookcalled, What's the Matter with
Kansas? Okay, and, and then Ithink this was his follow up
book to that. It's called,listen, liberal. And then
there's a, I think he's, hewrote one in, like, 2020, oh,
yes, what it's called, thepeople know. The people come and

(24:25):
know anyway, it's, he's, he's a,he's a very old, you know, like
old school, old school,traditional FDR style, Democrat,
maybe is what you want to callhim. But it's interesting
though, reading this book, it'svery good. I don't know how I
mean, it would probably beboring to people outside the US,

(24:47):
but from a from a US sort ofpolitical history standpoint,
it's very good. It's like, howdid we get where we are today,
with where, sort of how thewhere the political parties are
at and. But he's FIFA. Hefocuses specifically on the
Democrat Party, because that'shis, that's his, that's his
party, right? And so. But hefocuses a lot on the rise of

(25:12):
what he called he's got a lot ofgood phrases to describe these
things. Like he is the rise ofthe expert class, yeah, and sort
of a, you know, it's what he'sdescribing, is technocracy, but
he's got a lot of gooddescriptions for it. But this,
this transition from where youhad Harry Truman, who was

(25:34):
basically a shoe store, youknow, shoes, shoe salesman, as
the President, to now itspresident. You know, it's, it's
the executive branch. Is this isalways being run by the, quote,
smartest people in the room, theheart, you know, like 25% of
Obama's cabinet graduated fromHarvard. It's, he calls them the

(25:54):
wet, the well graduated. And inreferences, a lot of old
articles and stuff that I did, Ijust missed at the time. This
is, you know, back in the early90s, during the presidential,
Presidency of Clinton and thatkind of thing. And it's a great,
it's a good book. But what it'she kind of talks about this idea

(26:15):
that the closer, the closerpeople get to consensus. So
there's this idea on, you know,with back in way he talks about
the Democratic LeadershipCouncil, the DLC, which Clinton
was the head of, and it was thisorganization that was going to
sort of move the Democrat PartyBeyond The Beyond the days of

(26:38):
FDR, and then you deal into thisnew era of the, you know, the
knowledge worker and the youngprofessional, the professional
class. And so he talks aboutthis, what drives that class of
person so much is this idea ofconsensus, like, sort of like a

(27:02):
thinking block type thinking,like, I think, like everybody
else does, of my class, and thenso he's, like, the closer you
get to consensus, this, thissort of, like II, like the
center, the differentiatorsbetween you and everybody else.
Don't really, they're not reallybecoming about policy positions.

(27:24):
They become more about theincidentals, like, who you are,
like, where did you go toschool, who you know, what's
your pedigree?

Adam Curry (27:31):
These called Identity Politics. No, yeah, it
becomes

Dave Jones (27:35):
more about identity then, then about because you're
already so close. You knowyou're, you're, you're no longer
really, are you? I

Adam Curry (27:43):
go back to this. You're doing the weave. You're
doing the weave.

Dave Jones (27:49):
I go back to and for some reason, during during the
pandemic, I I got on. I think IOkay. I watched that Oliver
Stone series about Americanhistory, yeah, which I thought
was very good. And I ended upwatching the entire Bush Gore
debate from, like, from 2000Wow, in I think Jim Lehrer was

(28:14):
the

Adam Curry (28:15):
JIM LEHRER, yeah, from the McNeil Lehrer report,
sure. I

Dave Jones (28:19):
think he was the moderator. And what I took away
from that, from that debate, wasthey almost were the same
person. Every they were. Theyspent so much time saying, Well,
you know, I agree with with myphone, with my and I would do so

(28:39):
and so. And then Al Gore say,Well, you know, I agree with
that, but you know, I wouldtweak it in this way. They
agreed with each other like 90%of the time. And so when you're
at that point where everythingis sort of like you're so close
together already giving people ayou have to, if you want people

(29:02):
to go with you, versus versusthe other side. You have to look
for other reasons to give to to,you know, other reasons because
the policy reasons are they'rejust not distinct enough. So
that's, this is what. This iswhy. I think that was a long
worried. Here's

Adam Curry (29:23):
the weave. He's bringing it back. He's bringing
it back. He's coming into homeplate, everybody.

Dave Jones (29:28):
This is why, I think that story that that articles
like this in the public aboutwhat Spotify is doing with their
content annotations. I thinkthis is why they use the term
experts so much. Oh, okay,everybody wants. Because what
you have to do is you have tosell it, not based on the the

(29:51):
the quality of the product like,but

Adam Curry (29:53):
based the power these, the the pedigree of the
people doing it. Yes, yeah, Igot you. Yeah,

Dave Jones (30:00):
yes, because the difference between an ML model
and a thou in 1000 Indians mightbe 2% so what you have to do is
you have to just, you have toestablish that, no, no, no,
these are domain experts, yeah,but these are the smartest
people in

Adam Curry (30:16):
the room. We're domain experts. To write that
down. That was a long

Dave Jones (30:20):
that was a long winded way of saying just that
book's been on my mind a lot,and so I saw this. I saw the
similarity. Well, I,

Adam Curry (30:28):
as you know, I've changed my tune. I'm all for it.
I want all the social media tobe flooded with the AI images.
Am AI text generation AI videosas much as possible. Make it
unattractive and unusable, andit will, the problem will solve
itself. And they're and they'rehanding out all of these. What
is that?

Dave Jones (30:49):
That sounds big? That's a million

Adam Curry (30:51):
Satoshis. Whoa from anonymous.

Dave Jones (30:56):
How did Ooh and who's anonymous?

Adam Curry (31:01):
Well, anonymous says, Well, I have an idea
today. True fans added an AIfilter in your user setting. So
if host equals AI, we willdisable the play button. If you
have chosen that in your usersettings.

Dave Jones (31:20):
True fan. So obviously, that was James that
sent that.

Adam Curry (31:24):
Why would James send 1000 SATs? A million SATs? I'm
sorry, a million. Kidding. Itcan't be any British guy by any
stretch of the imagination. Amillion Satoshis. Wow. Thank
you, Sam. Thank you. Thank youanonymous. Oh, that's, I've

Dave Jones (31:41):
got that on my notes to talk about, actually, no,
because they true. Fans also nolonger needs an account. You
don't have to have an accountjust to

Adam Curry (31:48):
Oh, you can just use it. Pop in and use it. Oh,
that's cool. That's cool,although you don't get all the
benefits of of having anaccount. I would presume, no,
but you can still use it. Yeah,you know, I was trying to add a
live radio stream to Sonos.These guys have ruined
everything. They upgraded theirapp and whatever. Maybe six,

(32:12):
eight months ago, you can't evenadd a live stream anymore. You
have to use a music service, andthen you have to do it through
tune in then you have to do iton the tune in app, and then you
do it on the app, and it doesn'tsynchronize. I just want to add
some other stream that is notconnected to some mainstream
system, that is registered insome other service. I just want

(32:34):
to add a URL, well, can't bedone,

Dave Jones (32:38):
or can you? But you can just, you, can you, like,
pipe a podcast app into it,right? Can't you do like, Apple
play or something, I mean, or,I'm sorry, uh, Bluetooth or
something,

Adam Curry (32:49):
you know that even that I think has become
complicated. I just really,yeah, I just want to be able to
use the app and save this to myfavorites, and so I can play it
at home. And it's like, Ah, so

Dave Jones (33:01):
you're using the Sonos app to do, yeah, yeah.
What is this? I've never hadSonos. I've heard it's super I
mean, like for, for what itcosts it it ought to be, because
I've heard it's not cheap. Ohno, the hardware and stuff.

Adam Curry (33:16):
Oh and they and they totally. Oh, interesting. No.
Song is a Sonos controller forLinux platforms, so you can do
stuff with it. Interesting.They, they kind of break, they
basically downgraded all the oldhardware, which I'd had for
eight years, and it just startednot working right. And then they

(33:38):
said, Well, you know, you reallyneed to. And then the Oh, yeah,
if Oh, you want to use Sonos,you have to, you know, here's
the new app. But you can usethis deprecated app for your old
hardware. They really forceeverybody into the new hardware.
There was quite disgusting. Andthen, and then, if you
decommissioned it, it brickedthe old speakers. You couldn't
even give them away to somebody.James did lots of reports on

(34:01):
that. It was really, it was anasty company, because

Dave Jones (34:04):
I thought, I thought once before about trying to get
into that ecosystem, but I'veresisted, because it's so many
people have complained

Adam Curry (34:11):
about, oh no, it's horrible. It's horrible. I mean,
I was in it, and then, you know,Tina really wanted it, and said,
okay, so she said we upgradedwhen we moved to the house,
like, okay, just simple, and itwas much easier to set up
because it has, it creates itsown network, and it's a pretty
simple system. But if you're notin the in the in the ecosystem
of the apps and the approvedapps and all the stuff that they

(34:33):
want, yo search for a radiostation, but have one that's not
in the listing, can I do usethat? Please? No, no, no, no,
you can't do that. No, we'llhave none of that. That just
horrible. And I tried to resetpassword and wouldn't recognize
it. And this, you know, just inthe Windows firewalls, I hated
the link, almost as frustratingas the mega meta. I. Hell thread

(35:00):
about that Russell started aboutpay walls on podcast index, dot
social, my word, my word.

Dave Jones (35:10):
I've got some notes about that. I don't buy by
personal policy. I don't I justtry never to get involved in
those threads. I just, I justwant to hear them. I just want
to see them play themselves out.Yeah,

Adam Curry (35:26):
no, and you're good at that. I think I replied once

Dave Jones (35:31):
because, I mean, because adding to it doesn't
really help, you know, and so inbut I do have some thoughts. I
mean, do you have any thoughtsyou want

Adam Curry (35:41):
to Oh, no, the only, the only thought, I mean, the
part that I was concerned with,got resolved pretty quickly,
because everybody said, no, no,this is not value for value.
And, okay, so what, you know?And then there's always, and I'm
used to the Oh, so it's busking,so it's tips, okay, I'm used to
all that. And then I saw plentyof people jump in and say, no,

(36:02):
no, you got this wrong. And and,as you know, sending links. But
I mean, I actually went to theGitHub, to the GitHub, and said,
Look, there's this. There's forwhat you want to do if you
really want to do that. BecauseI think what he was looking for
was a way to have, you know, thecontent that you pay for, and

(36:28):
you can, you know, there'sdifferent ways you can create a
pay wall. And, you know, and Ikind of reject the notion that,
well, we have to keep up withSpotify. Just reject that notion
out of hand. I'm not interestedin that, and, but I'm not even
going to post about that. Butthe idea of stream, of using
SATs, and, you know, thestreaming payments, or booster

(36:52):
gram, there is a solution. It'scalled LSAT, and we looked at
that years ago, and it's a veryelegant, very simple way for you
to not allow an HTTP requestunless you've paid some
Satoshis. And it works reallywell. And I posted that on the
GitHub, and it was just ignored,to which I'm like, Okay, you're

(37:13):
really not even interested insolving this problem, at least
that's the way it came across tome, because I'm giving you a
technical solution that fits inperfectly. I think people were
just more interested in arguingfor argument's sake. And I don't
know, it felt incredibly inproduct, non productive, and it

(37:33):
died. Of course it did, but itwas just, it was, it was a head
scratcher. I didn't understand.You know, what are you trying to
do? You know, it's like, theirsolution, just do it. They felt
like, there you go. Like, tryingto build consensus, where, in
our community, code counts,like, hey, implement it, build

(37:54):
it. Have to have both sides ofthe equation, a hosting company
and an app. And then, you know,it's then we we bang it around.
I mean, that's how we always dothings, but this endless trying
to build consensus was irkso,

Dave Jones (38:09):
did you hear Jane James and Sam's discussion last
week on on power?

Adam Curry (38:14):
Yeah. Power podcast, weekly pod, news, weekly review.
Yes, I did. I did.

Dave Jones (38:20):
I thought that was a good discussion. It because it
sort of, you know this podcast,discussions on podcasts are so
much better than discussions onmessage boards. Oh, no, kidding.
You can get some. You can getinto the nuance faster, and you
can understand that. It's justso it's a better experience. So

(38:41):
I took a lot of value away fromlistening to them hash some
things out back and forth, youknow. And Sam was saying, you
know, he's like, I think Sam'scoming at it from the standpoint
of, you know, Spotify is doingall these great things. And he,
you know, I want, I'm speakingas Sam here. I want, I want open

(39:02):
the, you know, the open podcastecosystem, to have those same
things. And I agree, becausewe're all that's what we're all
here for, is to make sure thatthat's that that is the case.
Um, there's an issue here that Ijust think is the elephant in
the room, and it's so big thatwe just we miss it okay, that,

(39:25):
you know, we could build apayment tag for RSS very easily.
That's that's really not animpediment to any of this stuff.
It, let's say that we want a wayto to lock a piece of content
that's referenced in anenclosure. We want a way to lock

(39:49):
that behind a paywall. We couldcreate some sort of payment tag,
and even we could even repurposeone of the existing tags that we
already have, uh, with, uh. Uh,with a so that it's when it's
present in an episode, you haveto get some sort of payment,
conference confirmation, somesort of confirmation hash or
something that you then sendback with the enclosure URL,

(40:12):
either either in a header or aparameter or something in order
to enable retrieval of thecontent. That's that's almost
trivial to to design. Now, ofcourse, it would take some
coding to put it into the app,but the design is not difficult,
but what? But what would thatlook like in the app? It would

(40:36):
have to be some sort oftransaction that takes place in
a web view that opens up to athird party payment platform,
sort of like bus sprout doeswith their subscriptions. What's
the obvious thing that's prothat's wrong here. This violates
apple and Google's platformpolicy. You can't do that.
Right? You're not allowed to usethird party payment provide

(41:01):
payment platforms in order tomake a thing like that happen,
so immediately you can't dothis. Now you know bus brow
solution, where their theirsubscription product violates
this. This already to a certaindegree, but, but because it's

(41:27):
considered a donation, you know,you don't, it's not unlocking
content. You're not paying,making a payment and then
receiving the content in inreturn, right? This

Adam Curry (41:38):
is exactly what Patreon went through, right with
unlocking, with unlockingcontent, yeah,

Dave Jones (41:46):
so it's considered a donation, just, you're just
sending this, you're sending thepodcaster money. You're not
giving them money to get contentin return, right? So that kind
of skirts around this problem.But if it's an actual digital
purchase of an audio book,right, then you run out of

(42:07):
trouble. You can't do it. Youjust simply cannot do it without
going through the without goingthrough the platforms, payment
system.

Adam Curry (42:18):
I don't think James and Sam actually discussed that
part of it, did they?

Dave Jones (42:23):
No, they didn't. And see, that's, but that's, that's
the that's the issue here, this,this is a political problem, not
a technological problem, amen. Imean, I mean Paula and political
in quote, you know, quotes likethis is not a problem. No, it's
not, but is a policy problem.Spotify has gotten special
treatment from App Storepolicies

Adam Curry (42:45):
because of anti competitive stuff with the music
business apps.

Dave Jones (42:48):
Exactly, yeah, in order to get around this issue,
as has as have other largeplayers, Netflix and others have
gotten carve outs in order toallow their product to exist
into and to basically violatethe rules which everybody else
is forced to comply

Adam Curry (43:08):
with. Take us one step further about how crazy
this is. So how many times havewe had someone who submitted an
app that wants to access podcastindex get rejected with a with a
standard form that says, no, no,you have to show that you have
permission from all of thesepeople in order to access their

(43:29):
content and make it playable inyour app. Yeah,

Dave Jones (43:33):
that's happened multiple times,

Adam Curry (43:34):
and you know. So we have a form letter, a template,
and we send it on their behalfand say, no, no. Hey, look, this
is the terms of service. Here'show everything is submitted to
the index, and then the app getsapproved. So I heard yesterday
from one of our no agendaproducers. He made an RSS feed
reader rejected under the verysame grounds,

Dave Jones (43:57):
What? What? What service where they was he using
that they were complainingabout? Well,

Adam Curry (44:03):
they say that if you're going to ingest content
from other places, you need toshow that you have approval from
those other places. So he hasn'tyet, yeah, oh, yeah. So he has
a, you know, like a, like astarter pack, or a hot list or
something. It comes with thenumber of feeds already pre
installed. No, can't do that.Can't do that. So, so they're

(44:26):
literally creating hurdles forRSS to flow freely through apps
that are distributed through theapp stores. It's disgusting.

Dave Jones (44:37):
And see, this is the the okay V for V is an is an
ideology of, pay of, it's a

Adam Curry (44:45):
cult of how he's a cult. Yes, V for V is a cult.
Yeah,

Dave Jones (44:51):
lots of candles, horns, the it's, it's an
ideology about the way that youknow. Get supported by your by
your listeners, but it's alsothe way podcasting works,
because of self defense fromthese dominant platforms. You

(45:16):
you can't sell content, digitalcontent through through apps.
That's right with without givingApple 30% of of the of the the
the revenue, and when you havepeople like that's and that's

(45:37):
even if you're using the in apppayment solution through their
APIs. If you want to do itthrough a do an RSS feed in an
open way that's not proprietary,you can't do that at all. No,
now, now show me a salute. Now,you know, show me a solution

(45:57):
that works like Buzz sprouts,subscription mechanism. Thing
does, but instead of opening upa web a web view, a web view, it
in somehow embeds the Apple Payand Google Pay data directly in
the RSS feeds, feed itself.Yeah, no. Show me that solution,

(46:22):
and I will gladly dropeverything and make that tag a
reality. That's a promise, if,if, maybe it can be done. I
don't know. I'm

Adam Curry (46:30):
sure true fans already does it

Dave Jones (46:34):
True. True fans uses the web, the web version of
Apple, pay, right? And, and thatworks, but see, somehow this
would have to and so that's theway bus sprouts thing works. So
like, what bus sprout does isthey put it, they put a link to

(46:56):
a sub to a sort of donationsubscription page in the funding
tag, you tap the funding tag, itopens up and you can choose
there to donate to the show ordo a monthly recurring
subscription, either throughlike Apple Pay or credit card or
other things. In order that andlike, you know, like I said,

(47:21):
that works. They allow that togo to you to function, because
that's not technically apurchase, it's a donation. If
we, if we make this actually apurchase, then I don't think
that that. I think that is aviolation. What, what you have
to have is a way that the appitself interacts with the APIs

(47:42):
without any web view, becauseyou're not allowed to link to a
third party page in order tomake a payment. So this data
would have to be the apple, Pay,Google, pay, all these things
would have to be embedded in thefeed in a way that the app
itself could process the paymentin app, right? And so, like I

(48:03):
said, may show me that that'sdoable and and I'm glad I will
happily write a tag for that,because, but this, this is not
what. What people always end upwith is they describe a scenario
where you go and pay forcontent, and it unlocks it in
the app. And I'm saying thatthat that can't work,

Adam Curry (48:27):
I guess. I guess the at this health thread, there are
two things. One is I just don'tunderstand why we think we are
or even can compete with Spotifyor Apple. I've never felt that
was the point. It's like, okay,then why don't you people just

(48:50):
use Spotify? You know, youwhether you use Spotify or build
a new Spotify, you're gonna runinto all the same issues, all
the same issues. Spotify isalready fixed in the best way
they can fix it as a corporateentity. So I don't understand.
It's like, okay, well, I havepeople of audiobooks who want to
get paid. Okay, well, then theycan go to Amazon or where else

(49:13):
they want to go. And you got tolive by those rules. That's just
Amazon and Spotify and Apple.They they need to run their
business so you can't be doingit for free, and they don't. And
whatever they charge, theycharge. That's Yes, I

Dave Jones (49:28):
agree with James. I think I he said, The thing I'm
most keen to do is ensure thatpodcast apps get to benefit.
Basically, they get a piece ofthe action. I agree. I feel the
same way. That's if, if we canmake, you know, I want to keep,
I want to keep up or be, oralways be ahead of the of like

(49:48):
Spotify and Apple and these. Iwant to be ahead of them
technologically in thecapabilities that that RSS can
provide. And also want it to bein a way where so if, if
somebody. It wants to sell theiraudiobook, they can sell it, and
if they choose to put it behinda paywall, hey, that's that's

(50:09):
fine. Doesn't really match myideology, but that's fine.
They've, they're going to makethat choice, and I want to be
able to service that and in someway where, if you buy it through
true fans, or through cast OMatic or podcast guru or
fountain, then then you know Samand Franco and and Oscar and

(50:31):
Jason and all them can and Mitchcan get a piece of that action.
It

Adam Curry (50:36):
was very interesting. Stephen Bell had
what he called a thoughtexperiment as a part of this
thread. Did you see that?

Dave Jones (50:45):
I think I did what he said. I

Adam Curry (50:47):
don't want to misquote him. Hold on a second.
Let me grab it here, because itwas, it was, I liked it a lot.
Let me see, I might have toparaphrase it, but he said, Wow,
I wish I could find this. Whathe basically said is as a

(51:10):
thought experiment, as you know,as you're trying to make money,
and everyone's trying to makewell, what does podcast index
do? Do they just decide, oh,well, you know, well, we're
going to charge you for someaccess in certain cases. You
know, there's a wholeinfrastructure behind here. You
know, there's a lot of movingpieces, and it's, it's not set

(51:32):
up for this. And so I don't knowit just Well, I was more proud
of our little community notgoing crazy, and it didn't turn
into a massive flame war,because I've seen open source
communities burn out on exactlythis type of threat. I agree,
and I thought that wasfantastic. People tried to be

(51:54):
helpful. They provided counterperspectives, and it eventually,
and, you know, and of course,people like, Okay, I'm muting.
I'm gone. And yeah, and I like,that's what I thought was the
big win of this. Well,

Dave Jones (52:10):
this, this ends up this. This is kind of leads
this. This is attached. Yeah, Iagree, James. I'm not a fan of
purchasing podcasts, either, butI don't, I'm not gonna, you
know, shame other people fordoing it. That's fine I pay for,
there's a couple of podcasts Ipay for because they're behind
pay walls, and I just, I want tolisten, so I pay for them

(52:31):
monthly that and then I'm not,like, bitter about it. I gladly
pay what, what they want. Ithink they could earn more if
they didn't do it that way. Butthat's just me, but it kind of
like attached to this. There'sthis, you know, we've got this
stealth project we're building,and this is funny. It's what

(52:56):
it's turning into, is basically,we're, it's the same thing we
always do. We're buildingsomething that we both really
want, and then other people canuse it if they want to, pretty

Adam Curry (53:05):
much, yeah, that's pretty much the modus operandi,
yes, yeah.

Dave Jones (53:11):
But I remember, I remembered a while back, Leo
Laporte had a criticism of ofwhat we were doing here, and he
said he's like, you know, Adam.You know Adam's building a
podcast into, you know, podcastdirectory. Who uses podcast
directories anymore?

Adam Curry (53:30):
Well, I was just ignorance. He doesn't, didn't
really know what we were doing,right?

Dave Jones (53:35):
But that, it kind of was a throwaway statement at the
time. But it turns out, who usespodcast directories anymore? The
answer is, everybody

Adam Curry (53:44):
does, yeah, in one way, and they may not know it,
but they do

Dave Jones (53:48):
try. And this is, this is related to this thing
we're building. Try getting yourtry getting a podcast to show up
anywhere if it doesn't exist inin at least one directory,
right? It it's almostimpossible. Their directories

(54:11):
are critical to podcasting. Theymost all apps tag tap into a
directory in some shape, form orfashion, whether it's Apple or
or or us, but Spotify is closed,so that's doesn't really count,
but

Adam Curry (54:30):
so is apples, for that matter,

Dave Jones (54:33):
we'll see there. And that's, that's the issue. Is it
turn it turns out, you know, itturns out that the biggest issue
within podcasts. Well, sort offreedom, isn't it? Isn't
necessarily censorship, it'sjust, it's just existence.

Adam Curry (54:51):
It's hard to exist.

Dave Jones (54:53):
It is if you aren't in the directories, you just
don't exist, right? So what'swhat's happening is we know
we're trying to push some feedsin. To we're trying to, if we're
trying to link out that I'vetalked about this, I think,
couple weeks ago, when we'retalking about episodes that FM,
I'm trying to link out for somefrom some newly created feeds to
to the podcast apps directly. SoI want you know, I want you to

(55:16):
be able to, you've done thisthing

Adam Curry (55:18):
open, to open this podcast, and you're in the in
this app, right?

Dave Jones (55:22):
You just created this thing. It has a feed, and I
want you to be able to, within30 seconds, tap, oh, tap,
podcast guru or fountain, orcast a Matic, or pod verse or
podcast addict, and just have itthere. It's where you can hit
subscribe. That's actuallypretty tricky. It's not that

(55:45):
easy because most of them do notsupport a direct subscription by
URL, by Feed URL. Now, oddly,Apple is the easiest one of
these, because they have thesort of direct link where you
can just say podcast, colon,slash, slash in the feed URL,
um, you know, the the downsideof that is, Apple doesn't

(56:08):
support most of the podcasting2.0 tags we want to use, right?
So the other apps, they havevarious ways to get around this,
but in most circumstances, thefeed has to exist in one of the
directories, whether Apple or usfirst. Now, for us, it's not,
you know, that's a pretty quickfix. I mean, we, you know, you

(56:29):
submitted and it's there within,you know, five minutes. But with
Apple, it's kind of impossible.

Adam Curry (56:36):
You need an account. Look at comics, your blogger.
Yes, he, he wanted to be in hehad to have someone else add it
to their account, because hedoesn't, he wants to be
anonymous, and so he doesn't, hedidn't want to open an account.

Dave Jones (56:50):
And I guess it's related to our previous this is
where we're talking about justsecond ago, because it
podcasting is it has a lot ofgates. There's a lot of
gatekeeping around, around thissupposedly open protocol, and
there's a lot of things thatkeep it from operating in a

(57:11):
smooth, well oiled, openprotocol fashion. And so these
are, these are things that theyshouldn't be this way, but they
are. It should. It should not bethat Apple gets to decide

(57:31):
whether or not you, as apodcaster, can sell an episode
of your of your audio book toyour customer, right to your to
your listener. It shouldn't bethat way, but it is. I don't
know. You have to work aroundit.

Adam Curry (57:47):
I don't know if you noticed, but I think Spurlock
posted about this, that on iOS18, you can now choose what
browser, what email client, youwant to open automatically, but
you still can't choose whichpodcast app you want to open
automatically, because thatwould imagine, if Apple did
that, how much that wouldchange?

Dave Jones (58:08):
It would be huge. Oh, man, it would just be giant.
Yeah,

Adam Curry (58:12):
it would be enormous. But for some reason,
they didn't do it. Gotta wonder.I gotta wonder

Dave Jones (58:21):
part, I think I've said, I've mentioned this
before, part of me is sort ofglad they haven't done it until
now, in a weird way. And that'sthat seems like a, it's like a
hypocritical from based on whatI just said. But I think there
would have been a lot of peoplewho set their default to be
Spotify, maybe, or something,you know, or something else. So

(58:44):
I think that was a move on theirpart to sort of like, hold some
of that at bay for a long timewhen Spotify was on its mega
podcast. Kick maybe now that,maybe now that that's, yeah, a
little, a little apple backyardmischief, yeah, probably.

Adam Curry (58:59):
I mean, what do they care? People are using their
devices. That's the whole point.Yeah. Why do they care? Yeah,

Dave Jones (59:06):
Apple podcast is in the net. It's an appendix and
anachronism on the entireorganization. It doesn't make
any money.

Adam Curry (59:12):
It's a dangling appendix. Is what it is. It is
no no participle, no disrespectto the team over there. No
disrespect at all.

Dave Jones (59:20):
Oh, I'm glad they exist. I'm thankful that they
still have jobs. Yeah, so

Adam Curry (59:26):
time to play a little music. I'm very excited
about this song for today. Oh,cool. You know, I'm back doing
boosted grand ball every 14days. Jim Costello, phantom
power music is is producing withme, which I really love, because
it made it possible. And again,I will reiterate, December 16
antones, very famous venue inAustin will be Adam Curry's

(59:50):
booster Grand Ball. Live. I feellike Dick Clark. I feel like
I'm, you know, like we're comingfull. Is that your dog or mine?
No, that's you. I feel likewe're coming full. Cycle. You
know, I'm doing a sock hop, andI think we're gonna have four,
four or five bands, but I thinkJimmy V on boarded, these guys
into into the value verse. Thisis Rebel hero and Run you.

Unknown (01:00:33):
You walk in sleep.

(01:01:00):
You tell me, some broken thingsyou

(01:01:56):
can't repay. It'll

(01:02:21):
be Dead. Can they fall down

(01:03:41):
to make it up to The people onair?

Adam Curry (01:04:20):
Uh, so that's music for a Friday, right there.

Dave Jones (01:04:27):
That's, do you remember the band extreme? Of
course, yeah, that's that soundslike extreme to me, huh?

Well, some people say it sounds like Lenny Kravitz
and but you know what? There yougo. At least it's not AI,

yes, absolutely

not AI, not AI. Music, I love that. What are you
drinking? Show, beard,

this is, this is, this is a polar SEL, sir,
Mandarin, oh, polar cell. Youknow what's good is the polar.
Seltzer, orange, vanilla

with natural flavors.

No doubt that's very natural.

Thanks for boosting. Eric PP, Eric PP, boosted in for
rebel hero. Very nice. Nice.

Yeah, so Alex is working on, he's working with
some people on Monero,

oh, to bring that into value for value. Oh, cool,

yeah, value for value, he said, he said to be to
ask that if anybody wants tohelp him, he's open call. Very
nice there, yeah, there's,evidently, serious about it, and
gonna get some work done onthat.

I am on the beta for fountain. And, you know, so
Oscar already launched the musictab in 1.15 I think, which is
very cool. And now they havefountain radio, so kind of the
way they have, remember, theyhad that test page on a on a web
page, so that that's in the appnow. Oh, cool. Yeah, that's very
cool. It's a great way todiscover music. I love that

(01:06:06):
they're doing that. I thinkthat's really cool.

Uh, Nate, Nathan, Nathan, I'm working with a few
of the apps to get some direct,uh, some like, more direct URL
launching support, and I'm goingto push that stuff to your repo
as as that becomes better. Nowyou're

literally talking to the tro to the boardroom. No one
listen to the podcast knows whatyou're talking about, yeah,

but you should have been here. That's my, oh, I'm

sorry. Okay, all right.

The So, and Nathan said, you know, basically he
wants more, because he keeps thesort of master list of how,

yeah, yeah, that's right, how to, how to launch
him. Yes, that's correct, right?He

does have that. And so I've been so far, Frank
Franco has added direct URLsupport for customatic links.
Oh, cool. So you can docustomatic colon, slash, slash
the feed URL that's in the testflight version right now.

Well, since we're in the in the board meeting, we're
doing this. I have a bug reportfor for Nathan. So when, so
whenever I want to send a linkto a lit episode from episodes
that FM The title is undefined.

Oh, interesting, yeah. Like, would that happen
right now to our show, let metake a look. Let me see, let's
go to let me click on the booton the Toot, toot.

I think so. Let me see podcasting 2.0 podcast.
There it is, episodes, live,

yeah. Here it is. Listen, yeah, and

see, look at the title bar. Undefined. See the
title bar if you look at thetitle of the title bar of your
tab.

Months is podcasting two point. No, no, I haven't
clicked into the episode. Yeah,

click into the episode. Okay, all right. Yeah,
it does live bug reports,everybody,

yep, undefined, you're undefined, I'm

undefined. I've been, I've been trying to remind
myself to report that bug, andnow I did it.

That's a great that'd be a great t shirt.

I'm undefined. No, it's just undefined,

undefined, yeah, okay, so and the other one that
we've that's that I havediscovered, and I don't think
that this is on the repo forNathan. Stuff is that you can
launch Alex from podcast Gurusaid, if you you can launch
podcast guru using a deep linkURL. So this would be, let me go

(01:09:05):
here. Let me go over here andmake sure I'm given the right
URL format. Hang on one secondradio
development. Okay, so if you goto versus feed, if you do ape,

(01:09:29):
that's not on here, oh, I gottago to my phone, my bed. Sorry,
I'm trying to find the link so Ican give the exact so while
you're doing that, I

have another bug report with episodes that FM,
no, no, no. When, when launchinga deep URL to open on fountain
on Android, the app crashes,

okay, yeah. Oscar is also putting in a straight link.
I talked to him about it, too.He. I

want a queer link. If you don't mind, I'm not.

You would. Where's numb? Everything's crashing over
here on me. I'm, I'm just insuch a

world of hurt. What are you doing? Mine? What are
you doing? Apple notes

crashed now. What now when? Apple I

love it. Tina will share me also. I'll send this to
you on email, and I get an applenotes, and then you click on it
and says you have to log in.Like, no,

I don't think so. No, you're being the appleness
is being too helpful. This isthe stupidest thing. Oh, here it
is. All right. So the URL isapp, dot. Podcast
guru.io/podcast/capital, x andthen the full Feed URL, hex

(01:10:52):
encoded. So just do a straightOh, okay, Hex encoding of the
characters and append that afterthe capital X, and that that
will have confirmed it worse,that will open podcast guru to
that exact feed.

It's amazing. All Apple has to do is just let you
set a default app and all theseproblems would be solved for 80%
it's amazing. It's amazingbecause Android does it already.
Don't they do podcasts, colon,slash, slash, I think so.

We need an Android person to to let us know that I
ordered an Android phone fordevelopment. What did you order?
Ordered? Actually ordered two,ordered that small device that
you have, the cat, the

cat s 22 was my driver, man, my daily driver.
You're gonna love it. You'regonna want nothing else but this
phone, the cat, yeah, it'sfantastic.

And then I ordered, uh, cow. What was that other
thing? I ordered galaxies, likea larger, a larger screen phone.
It wasn't, it was a largerscreen phone, just because I
needed, I wanted both to testwith, see what the different,
you know, covers, sort of allthat thing. But I've been
meaning to do that forever,because there's this whole

(01:12:13):
world, like podcast addict. Idon't even know what it looks
like. Never used it before.

It has ads, yeah, if you, if you're not a if you
don't pay for it, it has ads,little banners, kind of old
school that way. It's like, oh,look at those little, cute
banners.

Oh, here it is. It's the Motorola. Oh, goodness, oh,
goodness, Motorola Moto. And

we need a pod. LP, we need a Chios. I can't find my
kyos. I had a kyos flip phone,but I can't find it anymore. Is
the

Motorola Moto, g5, g20, 23 Yeah, Android 13. I hope
that's good enough. Anyway, I'm

feeling a lot of developer pain, brother, I'm
feeling your developer pain. I'mfeeling Marco's developer pain.
Oh, my God, he's going throughso much. Developer, pain.

Marco Armin, oh, yeah, really? Oh,

come on. Oh, when? I mean, he did a complete
relaunch. You know, you knowwhat happens? Like, stuff
doesn't work. Stuff breaks.Stuff works differently. People
are mad. People are upset.They're yelling. I mean, I'm
getting people like, boosted andgo through, ah, this new
fountain that might be theLightning Network. Okay, you
know, it's the pain, the pain ofrefactoring, of upgrades, as

(01:13:31):
it's so people have no idea.These developers just make it
look easy. Oh, it's just alittle, a little icon on your on
your phone. Click open. Itshould work. Everything perfect.
For free. I um,

having, having now done some, some serious UI work,
which I haven't done in a, youknow, a few years, like, like,
real UI work where I'm actuallytrying to make it look good, not
just I'm

withholding comment is

it is so tedious. Yeah, I know, so tedious, even
with the modern tools, which aregreat. I mean, like, tailwind is
great. The modern CSS standardsare wonderful. Like, grid, the
grid system and the Flex Systemare amazing. Like, all this
stuff is wonderful, but it'sstill just so tedious. You make

(01:14:22):
one change and then you like theother day, I found that for some
reason, flex, flex, justifystart, is the default on every
browser, except,

except edge. Oh, goodness, of course, of course.
Edge would do somethingdifferent,

yeah. And so then you have to, then, you know, I
have to go back, and I'm like,why is it doing this? Why is it,
why is it centering this contentinstead of putting it left
justified? And you. Workseverywhere. Why is this working?
And then I go, and it's becauseit was working everywhere else.
I just assumed it was worried,but I had to go and explicitly
define justified and left. It'sjust wow, tedious. So tedious.

(01:15:17):
Yeah, Everything's ruined. Tofeel the pain. Everything's

ruined. Just Everything's ruined. Oh, hold on
a second. Yes, I will, Alex, Iwill put your contact details in
the show notes, you bet. Sopeople want to work on Monero
with them. Okay, in touch withthem. Absolutely done. Well, let
me see, should we thank somepeople? Because I have to still

(01:15:41):
get you out of time. We got thesummer hours here. Let me go
through some of the boostersthat have come in. Oy
steenberger, 3333, and that wasfor rebel hero. And he says to
all the rebels out there, heardit on podcasting 2.0 yes, thank
you for for that's always goodto put it in there, because
doesn't always show upeverywhere where you heard it

(01:16:03):
from Flo Gnar Kyle 1776 to gopodcasting, Freedom boost. Have
a great weekend. Thank you verymuch. Eric PP, 3333 for rebel
hero. 1000 from blueberry, whosays more play walls. Yes,
please and thank you. Instead ofpaying for a podcast, pay for a
hearty recovery potion for yourfavorite hero, when RPGs and PC

(01:16:25):
2.0 combined forces you speak inriddles, my friend, you speak in
noodles. Let me see br, let meknow about Stephen Bell's
comment with 1000 sets. Thankyou. I found it sir libre,
lightning thrashes, 1111. Thanksfor making podcasting great
again. And remember for all yourresume and job search needs,

(01:16:46):
visit image makers. Inc.com,that's image makers. Inc, with
the k.com while listening tolightning thrashes. This is a
very, very weird crossover

cross promotion, yes. And then

we have that 1 million SATs from anonymous,
although I'm seeing weirdly inthe This is very strange in the
in my helipad, it says 1% split.No, that, no, that's right,
that'd be one, yeah. So thatmust Wow. And you know what,
Daniel J Lewis was still in thesplits. Oh, Daniel got a bonus

(01:17:21):
today

in the in the in in an out on the Al Gore scale
hills, 273 Hiroshi mclas,

beautiful salted crayon with a short row of
ducks. 2222 howdy boardroom. Wehad a fun discussion the V for V
jockeys channel that's ontelegram before the show with
shares versus percentages. Oh,we're back to that. For fun, I
looked up my feet and sovereignfees. I had a total of 9,200%
splits for five splits, wholelot. Stephen B was breaking it

(01:17:53):
down for us, but if you allcould take a crack at it, would
love to hear it go podcasting. Idon't understand. I don't know
he yet it's shares versuspercentages. He's willing

to break to hear somebody go over how it's
calculated.

Yeah, so why do we're not gonna do that today,
next week, next week. But how doyou get 9200 percentages? I have
to go look at that. Yes. Crayon,of course, no. Eric PP, 777, and
we got a 7777 from cotton gin.It br milkshake boost from salty

(01:18:33):
crayon. 333, another, anonymouswith 777, and we've hit the
delimiter.

We got, um, speaking of Buzz Brow from earlier, with
the subscription, uh, talk, theygave us

Unknown (01:18:52):
$1,000

keeping it alive, brothers, thank you so much.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.Thank you so much. That's
appreciated. We are value forvalue. After all, that's how
everything keeps running, andthey care and they show it.

Tim at technology one Inc, $100

Wow. Tim, thank you. That's great. That's a new he's
a new donor. Is he not?

He is? Yeah, he's a one time dinner. Let me defrag
it exactly. Thank you. He says,Thank you for this service.
You're welcome to Oh, let's seewe got some boosts. Where's our
boots? At you? Flip over toboosts. Oh, wait, wait, wait,

(01:19:41):
oh, I flipped over to boost, andI just boost when, when I
flipped over, I just happened tosee from 55 minutes ago,
donation from rss.comben@rss.com 1100 OH. 11

Blaze only Impala, a row of satchel of Richards.

He says, Hey Adam and Dave, a row of sticks and
bricks to add to the frame ofthe podcast index and in honor
and celebration of AaronSchwartz's birthday on November
the

eighth. Oh, that's right. Oh, thanks, brother.
That's so cool. That's

a good one. Keep up the great work from your
friends@rss.com go podcasting.

Yes, you got podcasting? Wow, nice.

Yes. Thank you guys. Appreciate this. So much support
today. This is lovely. Lovethis, yeah. Thank you so much.

Let's see that's about 16. Well, what is it? 1.6
million sets?

What 1111? 16 million? No,

no, no, no, no, it's 1.6

1.6 okay, I've totally screwed up my inbox. Oh,
I've got a sword by size. That'swhat did I do that?

Oh, bad idea. Never know, because we always wind up
at the bottom. That's

right, speak for yourself. Oh, we got music,
Mama. That's Julie. JulieCostello, 10,000 SAS, Thank you,
Julie. Thank you fountain,beautiful she says, need to
catch up soon. Just Yes, brunchwith the podcast, lawyer about
licensing and V for V musicdistribution chat soon. Went
back from California. Yes,

you know she was, she and Jim were in Florida
helping clean up for Helene.Such beautiful people. Oh,

they're, they're great people. They really are.
Oh, another music mama, 5000says. She says, yeah. AV, for V
music, she gives a not a nostrkey, okay, not an in pub.
Thanks, AC and DJ for all you dofor music,

then we're doing it for love,

anonymous, 100 sets listening on podcasting to
Dotto, thank you. That's for thebest for the tunes. Steve Webb,
hey, the podcaster. Steve Webb,7777 through fountain. He says,
love it. Heard it on podcasting2.0 episode 197, all right. And
the delimiter, comic strip.Blogger 23,000 says this is from
last week because he didn'trealize we were on hiatus. He

(01:22:23):
says, howdy, Adam and Dave, areyou ready to take your podcast
from good to great? Dive, diveinto podcast tips with Rob
Greenlee. Oh, wow. He's doing apromo for Rob Greenlee

right on All right, that's fantastic. I

love that reaching way out. Dive into podcast tips
with Rob Greenlee, where everyepisode is packed with
actionable advice, the latesttrends and insider tips on
making your podcast stand out.Whether you're a beginner or a
seasoned podcaster, pleasesubscribe in your podcast player
apps or directly on theirwebsite, podcast

(01:23:03):
tips.blueberry.net. Yo. CSB,

oh, thank you. CSB,

we got some monthlies. We got silicon
florist, $10 Chris Cowan, $5Paul Saltzman, $22.22 Derek J
visker, $21 yarn Rosenstein, $1Damon cast Jack, $15 Jeremy
gerds $5 New Media Productionsthat's Todd and Rob. $30 gene

(01:23:33):
Liverman $5 Michael Hall $5.50Timothy voice, $10 Satan's
lawyer, $5 holistine Bear $5Charles current $5 Michael
Goggin $5 Jorge Hernandez $5James Sullivan 10. Christopher
Reimer 10. Cohen Glasgow, fiveand Jordan dunville $10

Oh, wonderful. Thank you all so much. We are, of
course, value for value. Thewhole index runs value for
value. No pay walls here, no nopremium content, no bonus stuff,
no. It's all out in the open,all for you to enjoy. You can
support us with your time, yourtalent, your treasure. Join our
community. Podcast index, dotsocial. Add your feed to

(01:24:20):
podcast. Index.org, jump in,help out. And of course, we
always love your treasure, yourfinancial support, which you can
help out by boosting us whenwe're doing the show, just to
get a modern podcast app or goto podcast index.org, down at
the bottom is one big reddonation button that takes you

(01:24:41):
to our Fiat fund couponinterface, known as PayPal. You
can also do that from a lot ofthe modern podcast apps. You can
tap on support this podcast.There's little, little stack of
dollar signs. You can get to itdirectly from there. Value for
value, it is more than just amonetization. Model, it's a
lifestyle, and it's a cult.

And a lifestyle,

is there a difference? Hey, that's
interesting. But just a boostcame in from a second boost came
in from Chad F says the 1million sat boost is fake news.
I'll post about it on the maskthat I want to get home, huh?
Fake News. Fake News.

No, where we were. We scammed

what was sent through curio caster. So I don't
know if you, I don't know. Well,

I mean, you can always fake a TLV record.
There's no, there's noconfirmation to that. Did it say
that you can fake all? I mean,you can fake the TLVs. It's
like, it's like an email. Youcan, like, you can put anything
in the from address.

Oh, hold on a second. No. I mean, let me, this
is interesting. Let me see. Imean, I'm seeing, I mean, it
tripped all the tripped, all thebits. Oh, 35 minutes ago. I can,
I can load the TLV

on your helipad, yeah,

no, I see the total value, M sat total, yeah, but

that's in the TLV, right, yeah. You can fake the
to, did your balance go up by amillion cents?

Well, no, because I only get 1% on the on my note,
the rest goes to podcast index.

Did it get did it go up by by 1% of a million cents?

I don't know. I wasn't paying attention. I don't
look at that stuff. Hmm,interesting. All right, well,
we'll find out. But the value m,SAT, 123120, hold on, a second.

(01:26:52):
No, yeah, so I so I would havereceived 10,000 SATs, 1% I'll
have to say, oh, I can downloadthe TLV. Wow, this helipad
thing, man, that's outrageous.Cool. That was just cool.

Whoever built that deserves it, I know,

yeah. And I mean, Eric PP, but whoever's
maintaining it deserves a pat onthe

back. But yes, thank you.

Let me see. Oh, so they're already showing this in
the chat. F is showing it? Idon't know.

In the boardroom, yeah, I don't know. I don't
know. We either got we eithergot scammed

or doesn't I'm happy. I'm happy no matter what.
I'm happy either way. And fun,yeah, exactly. We had a good
time. All right, everybody, thatis the the board meeting for
today. Dave back. You're comingup on another busy season, I
guess. Oh, what is it? No,December. It's not. This is okay
right now this month, or youstill have right

now to say, Yeah, December. December is the
busiest time for me. But rightnow we're in a, we're in a cool
we're in cool down here, cooldown

period. Well, I'm glad, I'm glad you're back,
brother, it was good to haveanother board meeting. I missed
it last week. I felt verystrange.

I was in the middle of nowhere. There's a, we're in
the sipsy wilderness, which isup in north Alabama. It's a
designated wilderness area.

So there's, there's, oh, no, a designated Wilderness
Area, hmm,

yeah. It's like, it's, there's no, there's no,
like Rangers, there's nothing. Imean, it is your own. Melissa

could have killed you, and no one would have
known.

Thanks for putting that in my head for next time.

Hey brother, have yourself a great weekend. All
right, everybody. We'll be backnext Friday, right here in the
boardroom of podcasting 2.0

Unknown (01:28:59):
You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast
index.org for more information.Go podcasting using AI
to build AI to build better AI.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Cold Case Files: Miami

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 198: Domain Experts

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

Episode 198: Domain Experts

Cold Case Files: Miami