Episode 205: Podscape

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Podcasting 2.0 for January 3rd, 2024, episode
205, Podscape.
Hello everybody, a brand new year, a brand
new board meeting.
Have you missed us?
We've certainly missed you.
It is time for Podcasting 2.0. Everything
going on with podcasting, the past, the present,
and of course, the future.

(00:22):
We are the only boardroom that doesn't give
a hoot about year-end predictions.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas hill country and in Alabama, the
man who will never get bored like the
Megacorp.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one and only Podsage, Mr. Dave
Jones.
You're right.
I've got to be careful with this.
I got to be careful raw-dogging it

(00:43):
like this because I slid my drink across
the table and it was like, I heard
it.
I heard it.
I heard it in the intro.
I heard it.
Is it in there?
Is it in the real intro?
Yeah, I heard it.
We'll just leave it.
We'll keep it.
That's fine.
It's no problem.
It's all good.
I got to get used to this.
I got to get used to this.
What you're hearing here is a conversation as

(01:03):
my Christmas present to Dave this year, we
do exchange gifts, was an official Curry One
microphone, which will probably never ever get released.
But I have one.
But you have one, yes.
Curry One.
Curry One.
Dvorak started this thing with, he's like, oh,
we're going to do a microphone company, which
he's been talking about for years, by the

(01:24):
way.
So he finally finds the right cap, the
right thing, everything.
So we have demo models in different housing
and I'm like, you know, and I keep
saying, hey, are you ready to go?
And he's like, oh yeah, I'm doing, it's
like, he's, it's like his vinegar book.
It's never going to get done.
It's never going to get, never going to
happen.
So I'm like, you know what?
I'm just going to send Dave one.

(01:46):
So at least there's one more Curry One
microphone out there in the universe.
And I'm glad, I'm glad you like it.
My new Curry One of One.
Yes.
I should have signed it actually.
I'm stupid.
I should have put my signature on it.
I did notice it's not gold plated.
So.
No, no, no.
That's, that's yours, right?
Right.

(02:06):
I don't think so.
That's only for the Curry Zero.
Yes.
Curry, Curry One model, serial number 000.
You may hear fumbling.
Yeah, I hear it.
Get used to this.
Sorry.
I know it's going to drive you crazy.
Your ears are like tuned to this.
That's okay.
That's okay.
Let me see.
Definitely.
Hold on a second.

(02:26):
Let me just move this down a little
notch.
There we go.
Yeah.
I'm going to turn off.
You're coming in five by five, man.
Five by five.
I got to turn off the master compeller
because it's.
It's too much for you.
It's too much for your ears.
I can't.
Maybe, maybe.
Where is that at?
Where's the master?
You go to settings and then output and

(02:47):
then right bottom corner processing.
Okay.
Let's see settings.
I love how we always beta test everything
on the show.
Yeah.
That's what master.
Oh, there it is.
Master compeller.
All right.
Now it's off.
You got it.
You got it.
You got it.
You got it, baby.
You got it.
You got it.
It's all good.
Yeah.
I think I'm just a wuss.

(03:08):
I think the master compeller, I can't handle
the master.
It's too much.
It's too much for you.
You can't handle the master compeller.
It's too compelling.
Hey, happy new year, brother.
Happy new year.
Merry Christmas.
Merry Christmas to you.
We've, we've done our gift exchange.
We had, what was it?
Two, two, two weeks off.
Two full weeks.
Yeah.

(03:28):
It was like, it was crazy.
It was kind of odd.
I mean, I'm glad we took those two
weeks.
I did.
I skipped one, no agenda and did the
rest from Europe, but it was kind of,
and we didn't do curry in the keeper
either.
It was kind of nice just to take
a breather, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, I think, I think, I don't

(03:48):
know.
This is an interesting conversation because what do
you think about modern audiences, podcast audiences and
their resilience to like podcasters taking a break?
I think, I think it's been, I think
it's a little more okay than it used
to be.
I don't know.

(04:08):
I mean, I'm, I am honestly, after 17
years, I'm still afraid to really take more
than one show.
I try to take no more than two,
no agendas off in an entire year.
Because I know that people's lives are centered
around release schedule.
This is one, people say, what are your
rules for podcasting?

(04:29):
Number one, always release on the same day
of the week, around the same time that
you do every single time.
Make sure you send out a notification, a
newsletter or something like that.
Because if you're not there, now we do
best ofs on no agenda, which are, you
know, it's, it's a new show of best
of stuff.
And so it's always a different compilation.
So it was never just dead air or

(04:51):
repeat a complete repeat.
Which is, we don't do that here because
nobody wants to listen to old, let's talk
about this.
Yeah.
Hey, how about that split math?
What is a fee?
No, we're not going to do that.
No, this is different though, because we have
a very small, very dedicated audience.
And I think everyone enjoyed taking a break.

(05:13):
Although as a few pointed out this morning,
the boardroom did not get cleaned in our
absence.
It is dank and musty.
I've opened up a window.
There's cobwebs in the corner.
I mean, that went real fast.
That just made it nasty, man.
You know how in the break room at
work, when somebody doesn't clean off the coffee

(05:33):
pot on a Friday and by Monday, it's
just baked onto the bottom.
So before we took our break though, we
did have, what are we drinking?
This is the last of the LaCroix Pure.
The last?
What are you going to do after that?
I'm just not going to drink anything.

(05:53):
No, sure.
I'm just going to go dry.
Dry January.
We had a Boostergram Ball live from Antone's
in Austin, Texas.
Yes.
Which was, I think, super successful.
Incredibly fun.
Now it's a weird night to do anything

(06:15):
when it comes to live shows for an
audience to attend.
A Monday night, right near the Christmas holiday.
So to keep the room full from 6
.30 to 11 is pretty much impossible.
But the live audience was there and they
stayed until the bitter end.

(06:37):
And what was so nice about this particular
show, and I mean, I was tickled because,
you know, there was Boostergram Ball on the
marquee outside.
You know, it was a professional show.
The Phantom Power Music Hour, the Costellos, they
were producing it with open mic from Toonster.

(06:58):
I mean, who all was there in person?
Oh my God.
Well, I met Eric PP.
Eric PP was there in person.
Yeah.
He's almost as tall as you are.
I think he's taller.
I think he's a little bit taller.
And he, with Boober, he had put together
the Boostergram Ball sign, the neon sign, which

(07:18):
would change colors based upon the boost amount,
which they gave to me, which I'm about
to hang up here in the studio.
Oh, that's so cool.
I mean, they did, this thing has its
own Wi-Fi access point.
The light?
Yes.
Yes.
That's weird.

(07:38):
Yeah.
So you can log in and you can
set it up to a helipad, you know,
so that it has the webhooks all built
in.
I mean, so this, the light, this was
all set up through helipads, webhooks.
Yeah, exactly.
And the whole thing was great.
There was, we had a huge screen with
the boost board, which I think is, is

(07:59):
that a Boobery Cottingen production?
I forget who all has done all this
stuff, but it was, it was so beautiful.
Once again, the whole crew, everyone's pitching in
around the world.
We've got Oscar and Nick that are awake
in the UK.
We've got Dovidas who was doing the live
wallet switching on the feed.
It also in the UK, we had Boomy

(08:20):
and Moritz and the guys were awake in
Germany.
And boy, was that needed because for whatever
happened, we're supposed to start at 630 and
at 620, the first band is kind of
getting ready.
And we're, you know, we're in the green
room backstage area.
And I see all these sweaty, worried looks
like, oh, well the Albi hub stopped working.

(08:44):
Oh no.
Yeah.
They're on the phone with, I think Boomy
and it needed rebooting.
I mean, it was, it was a, it
was very stressful at that moment.
This was the cloud hosted Albi hub?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
So whatever, you know, of course, if it's
going to break, it's going to break right
before the show.

(09:05):
So I literally got on stage just as
they got it working again.
And we had, I think six bands, which
was probably too, too many for the audience
there, but people online stayed until the very
end combined with the boosts.
And I don't know about streaming sass, but
combined with the boost and the, the zaps

(09:27):
from Noster, people who were watching on Toonster,
it was well over 5 million sats.
Whoa, that's, what is that?
Well, five and a half, $6,000, I
think in total is what came in.
And once again, you know, the splits were
set up for everybody who was participating and

(09:48):
and every single artist, every single one came
up to me and said, this makes a
difference in my life.
What you guys are doing is making a
difference.
I hate being a glorified t-shirt sales
guy.
When I'm going on the road, I'm very
demoralized.
Just knowing that people are out there valuing
what we do means so much.

(10:11):
And I love that.
And, uh, and I mean, and Suzanne Santo,
by the way, who shows up in a
full length red dress and then goes on
to shred the crap out of her guitar.
I mean, she's just shredding.
I mean, you have to, you have to
see this.
You have, it's, there's something about a woman

(10:31):
in a full length dress, just bending the
strings.
And then at the end she picks up
her fiddle and starts fiddling.
You know, I was like, what?
It was great.
And, you know, and she, she made like
six or $700 from, from the boosts that
were coming in.
But besides that, her husband was there and
he's seeing all of these, because on the

(10:52):
boost board, all the booster grams and the
messages, and you could just see him beaming,
you know, because the messages were so encouraging
and people were saying how much they loved
it.
Um, I mean, every single person all the
way to the end, they're like, I'm not
quite sure I understand this because what they
had done is they, you know, they had
a whole weekend.
They had sats by Southwest.

(11:14):
And so they were, that's a great name.
Yeah.
And so they brought in people from the
music industry, not the Bitcoiners.
They targeted music people specifically.
So there are people- Like who?
I mean, like what was the target for?
There's the Austin Music Collective.
And there's, there's all these, all these different
groups because, you know, we're supposed to be
the, the, the live music capital of the

(11:35):
world world.
And so there's a lot of musicians around
and- And so by, so by music,
you said they brought in music people.
You don't mean like music industry people.
You mean like music, music- Artists, producers,
just people who are in, in music in
Austin.
You know, I think there's people who, there's

(11:55):
some college courses that teach, you know, different
aspects of music.
And so they just targeted all those people.
They hired a PR firm.
So they were coming in and they were
learning about this stuff for the first time.
And it wasn't a Bitcoin discussion.
It was a value for value, you know,
interactive learning session about how this, how this

(12:18):
stuff actually works.
And a lot of those artists and musicians
and people who are interested came to the
show.
I had tons of, of quote unquote, industry
people, bankers, Hollywood people that I know who
came just and, you know, they were like,
explain this business model to me again.

(12:39):
So it sounded like, it sounds like it
was a, it was interesting and needed to
do it live.
And like, it sounds like, it sounds like
you made a connection from people to understand
this thing that would have never really been
able to have that experience.

(13:01):
That's the way I felt at the Bitcoin
conference going in, hanging out with Julie and,
and the crew there and, you know, across
the street from the conference and seeing all
the artists.
And it made, it made the experience of
what the artists are doing and how the,

(13:23):
and how the Bitcoin and all that kind
of stuff connects to it.
And it made that feel real.
Yeah.
Whereas before, like in a way that the,
just being online, doesn't, I don't know, you
know, I don't know how to explain it
differently.
Yeah.
No, I understand exactly what you're saying, because
this was the first, the first live one
I'd been a part of, cause I've only
watched them online until, until now.

(13:43):
I remember the, the Bitcoin conference I was
doing my stuff here from, from Texas.
And so yes, to get that whole vibe
and the artists were continuously calling out people
online and, you know, I was reading out
booster grams.
I made some very fundamental mistakes in my
thinking, but that's just, you know, it was,

(14:04):
it was all put together within, you know,
like five weeks and we were getting ready
to go to Italy the next day.
And I hadn't considered that during the set
changes, there would be basically dead air on
the screen.
And so I hadn't really, and there's nothing
really you can do about that because they

(14:24):
also had to, you know, the, the mixer
board had to change and all the, all
these things had to happen.
So it did, we should have had a
place to do stuff, you know, like talk
to the artists as they come off stage
should have had a little corner to do
that.
And I just didn't even think about it.
So I'll put that on me.
But you know, so the lot, you haven't
done something like that in how long ago,

(14:46):
a hundred years.
I mean, that's like, Oh, I mean that
you, that's way back for you to do
some sort of live event like that.
Yeah.
I mean, there were, there were all kinds
of things we could have done there, but
yeah, but still the live audiences, they, they,
they stayed with it.
I was calling out Nasser and the 2
.0 apps equally, you know, I'm like, this

(15:08):
is a love fest.
We're just, we're just going to all going
to be in this together as I see
more and more.
And I'll get to that in a second
with the, with the wallet conversation I want
to have that this is all going to
fold into one.
Particularly now that we have an opportunity to,
to redo our wallets and payment systems.

(15:33):
And there's been a lot of work that
has been going on, particularly in the Steven
Bell cinematic universe with the split box, the
split box.
Yes.
The split box.
And, and so we're testing it today as
we speak.
It's in the feed in the 2.0

(15:53):
feed.
So what, what he has done is he's,
and, and I don't know if this is
a temp solution or something that's permanent.
I don't care really.
I just see work being done.
I'm happy.
The idea of the split box is that
you have a, so you have your splits
in, in your, in your feed, in your
value block.
And there's a separate tag, which is the,

(16:16):
I think it's called split box or something
imaginative like that.
Right.
And in the split box, it has one
singular LN URL wallet address.
And that is the wallet address connected to
the split box.
So when the payment comes in and, and
so if the app knows, okay, I'm, I'm

(16:38):
hitting the split box.
Hold on a second.
I think he just tested something here.
Uh, when he knows I'm hitting the split
box, then the split box takes the payment.
It looks up the splits in the, um,
uh, in the feed and then sends the
appropriate, you know, retransmits saying that specifically retransmits

(17:01):
the payments to all those different wallets in
whatever they need to receive it.
So if it's a key send, it'll do
a key send.
If it's LN URL P it'll do that.
Uh, and so it's kind of a proxying
system.
Um, and, and it also takes the, uh,

(17:21):
TLV record or payment info and drops it
into a split box, uh, uh, storage bin.
And, and which I'm already seeing.
And then here I'll send it to you
on signal here.
Hold on a second.
He could take a look.
Um, yeah, where I haven't, I haven't sent

(17:43):
you a note in a long time.
Oh, here you go.
Okay.
Yeah.
So that's the URL.
Actually I'll put it in the, I'll put
it in the, in the board boardroom as
well.
So you guys can see it.
And this, what I'm seeing the, the, you're
saying Jason.
Yeah, but it's, but it's the, um, this
is the T this is the metadata metadata.

(18:04):
Yeah.
The metadata of, of the, of the, of
the payment that was sent.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, um, essentially we have stuff working.
Um, I mean, I'm seeing stuff coming through
both in my, uh, on my own node
through key send as well as in my,
uh, strike wallet.

(18:25):
So what I just sent you there, that,
that link that's from my strike wallet.
So that's in the description field of the
strike wallet.
It sends that URL and then that URL,
and he has a web hook.
So strike strike has a web hook system.
Uh, and I'm not quite sure yet.
So I set up an API key and
Stephen bell has it now.

(18:45):
Um, he can probably enter my wallet.
Um, but which is good.
Um, and so I, that's about the extent
of what I understand of it.
I, and I just liked the idea of
the split box because it puts it on
me.
Like, you know, I, I can just say,

(19:06):
all right, here's I'm going to, I'll take
care of the splits and it's still, the
information is still in the feed.
Um, so it can go individually if you're
using an older system or a different system
or whatever.
Uh, this just kind of consolidates it all
into one easy way.
And at the same time, the way I
understand it, it also allows a zap to
go into that.

(19:27):
So someone can zap the, um, uh, zap
the episode and the split box will take
care of the splits.
Okay.
So this, so who is running the split
box?
Are you running this?
Well, the idea is open source.

(19:50):
You run it yourself.
Um, right.
I believe Stephen is going to offer that
as a service for people who just want
to use that.
And he'll take a, he'll take a small
split for the, uh, uh, for the service.
Okay.
So he's right now, this is him.
So I don't have that server yet myself.

(20:12):
Okay.
So he is doing a, like a store
and forward.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he, well, you, you're putting in, you're
putting in your, um, you're putting in your,
you put, you put in your split box
address and then the split box, it takes

(20:33):
the entire payment, looks up the value, looks
up the recipients and then distributes it on
the box.
Correct.
From my own node, I presume.
Okay.
Or, or from your strike wallet.
Yeah.
Oh, precise.
Whatever it is.
Yeah.
So you have a split.
So you would have a split.

(20:54):
Okay.
I'm trying, I'm just trying to get my
head around.
Well, okay.
So, so I would say that this is
for a podcaster and the whole idea is
to make it easy for, um, just to
make it easy for payment.
So, um, it's more complicated for the podcaster
because you probably have to have an Albi
hub and all kinds of stuff, whatever.

(21:15):
I don't know how easy or hard that's
going to be.
That has been the least of our problems.
Getting podcasters set up with, with wallets is
something we can deal with, um, having apps
so they can just have a simple payment
mechanism with, by connecting a simple app like
strike, you know, the issue there is all
the stuff it doesn't do.

(21:37):
So you should be able to even, you
could even just send a payment, uh, from
your strike wallet to a URL that to
a QR code.
And that QR code would go to the
split box.
The split box would send through the splits.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm trying to figure out where this is.

(22:01):
So does this, it sounds like the split
box attaches to a node.
Well, it attaches to your strike wallet.
Is that, is that what's happening?
No, no.
The split box is attached to, the way
I understand it is I would have a

(22:23):
split box and the split box runs on
my node, just like I'll be hub or
anything else does.
Right.
So it's taught it's, it's receiving and sending
from my node.
So it gets a payment from, uh, someone,
someone sends a payment because in my feed,
it has a split box tag with an

(22:43):
address, Adam at, uh, you know, my node
.com.
It takes that.
And then it looks up the splits and
it sends, it sends the appropriate amounts to
all those separate addresses, regardless of what they
are.
Bolt 11, bolt 12, key send, you know,
on chain, whatever it needs to be.

(23:06):
Right, right, right.
Yes.
So, uh, I guess here, here, let me,
let me try to ask the question a
different way.
What is the backing wallet of this, of
the split box?
That would be my node.
Okay.
So, right.
It's your node, but it could, but it
could be anything.
Yes, it can be, it can be, yeah,
you can have it, you know, basically it's

(23:27):
like, um, uh, what's that thing called that
we could never get them to integrate key
send, um, LM bits.
Yeah.
It's like LM bits.
LM bits also has a split, but they
can only split, um, to virtual wallets.
I think, oh no, they can split to
anything.
It's the same idea.
So you have to have a funding source.

(23:47):
I presume that could, but you know, but
you don't want to use strike because strike
can't do the key sends.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
I see.
So it's more like an Albie hub type
strap on, I guess.
I said that purposely.
That should be, that should be a, get

(24:09):
somebody, somebody, uh, email Boomi and tell him
that that should be their, their, their tagline
and Albie hub, strap it on.
Um, so yeah, we'll see.
I mean, there's Eric PP is, is working
with Steven Bell.
They're doing, you know, he's doing stuff with
the, uh, with helipad.
So helipad we'll be able to pick it
up.
I mean, um, it's very much in development.

(24:32):
So I'm just the, I'm just the canary
in the coal mine.
Um, I'm just here, you know, so I'm
seeing splits cause I have in the 2
.0 feed.
Let me take a look in the, let
me see in the value block.
Are we doing this?
Are we split boxing right now?
No.
So right now we, um, let me see
in funding.

(24:52):
I have, so right now we have Alex
Gates is getting a 1% split to
his, his strike wallet.
I have a strike wallet with a, with
a one, 2% split for some reason.
Um, just for giggles.
I think it was to make sure that
it would come through.

(25:13):
I didn't know if 1% would work,
um, consistently.
Um, the rest are all, um, are all
key send addresses and in the feed itself.
Let me see.
I have, let me see.
Split box.
Let me check.

(25:33):
Yes, there is a podcast colon split box.
Invoice equals HTTPS.
The split box.com slash invoice question Mark
address is the split box at get Albie
.com.
So I guess, um, Stephen Bell is running
his split box off of the split box

(25:55):
at get Albie.com through his Albie hub.
I'm just guessing.
And then it has a web hook.
Okay.
So this is a, it's a rogue tag,
man.
It's a, it's a rogue tag in the
feed.
Stephen gets, um, so he gets, he gets
special dispensation to do that.

(26:16):
Oh yeah.
Oh, of course.
Yeah.
He's been, he's got a license.
He has a podcast, a 2.0 license.
He has his license to, to, he has
a license to kill.
Exactly.
Yes.
Yes.
So I'm, I'm excited.
Interesting way to do it.
Yeah.
By the way, I'll take credit for the
name.
Uh, of course it doesn't have Adam Curry
written all over it.

(26:36):
I was like the split box.
That's what your name's gotta be, man.
It's obvious the split box.
Um, so we'll see what he does.
I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's really interesting.
I mean, it's a rogue, all of a
sudden it's a rogue tag that shows up,
but it could really be something good for
an intermediate step or maybe a permanent solution.

(26:56):
I don't know.
I like the idea going back to booster
grand ball that in essence, you now integrate
podcasting 2.0 RSS feeds with zaps so
someone can send a zap to the split
box, a tag in your feed, which you
can publish, you know, uh, on Nostra, I
guess, uh, with your, with your episode.

(27:19):
And then the split box will take that
zap and we'll split it up appropriately, no
matter what backend wallets or whatever is happening
at the backend, because splits never really happened
in the Nostra world.
Let's see.
Uh, I'm, uh, paging back up.
Okay.
Split.
So the, this tag is what, how, I

(27:45):
guess what I don't understand is how is
it getting the splits is, I guess it's
looking up the feed.
It's looking up the feed.
Exactly.
But then, but how does it know what
the feed is?
I have no idea.
It's the initial payment.
That's what I, that's, that's confusing to me.
Um, cause it's this tag.

(28:06):
Well, I would think, well, that payment URL
or the payment address, the single, the split
box payment address is unique.
So it would be, you know, two point,
uh, podcasting 2.0 at my node.com
or get albie.com, whatever.
And that would be unique to me.
That's my receiving address.

(28:26):
So somewhere in the split box, you're putting
in where your feed URL is, I guess.
I, yeah, I guess there's probably a.com
file somewhere.
Okay.

(28:46):
I gotta figure it.
I gotta figure out how this, it gets
sent in the TLV, right?
Yeah.
I see Eric.
He gets in the TLV, but it's, but
if there's no TLV though, because if you're
getting a bolt 11 address, there wouldn't be
a TLV, right?
Uh, that's the part that I'm confused about.
Unless there's enough in there, unless, unless the

(29:09):
invoice is generating is for is, are you
having to generate an invoice per episode for
the split kit for the split box?
You're asking me things.
I have no answers to Dave.
I really don't know.
I I'm, I'm just excited that people are
excited just excited.
I'm just excited that people are excited about

(29:30):
doing something.
That's a, isn't that good enough?
It's fair.
I've, I've been, I mean, full disclosure, I've
been up to my eyeballs in Godcaster so
hard for the last few weeks that I'm
so, I feel out of the loop and
this, this will fold into the next thing
I want to discuss.
Um, as I was a little dismayed at

(29:51):
listening to the power episodes this week, uh,
where, um, they're very, very downbeat on podcasting
2.0 and there's no leadership and, you
know, how come we aren't running a fund,
uh, to, to, to, to raise money.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
The Sam wants us to run a, uh,

(30:13):
an angel fund and invest in apps.
Ooh.
Yeah.
I'm like, no, no, let's just go back
to the Genesis.
Let's go back five years in time.
We set up podcast index for exactly this
kind of experimentation that is taking place.
Um, and the main reason was we didn't
want anybody to control podcasting, certainly not Apple.

(30:37):
So we wanted to have a definitive open
database with an open API that anybody can
access and it's value for value.
If people want to support it, it will
remain to exist.
And if not, then it'll go away.
And so that part of the experiment has
been great.
In addition, as that time was the, the
era of D platforming people and D banking

(30:58):
them, we added in the lightning network as
a payment mechanism.
And with that value for value was kind
of thrown into the Bitcoin world.
And I'm delighted to see how people use
that phrase over and over again for all
different types of things.
So value for value is becoming an understood

(31:18):
concept.
Now, on top of that, lots of people
came in with all kinds of tags they
wanted, and some of them have been extremely
successful.
I'd say the number one is transcripts seeing
as Apple has adopted that, and maybe there
will be more or maybe not, but what
has, what is happening and you know, the

(31:40):
best way to predict the future is to
create it.
And so I don't think we did any
predictions.
We have just been creating the future all
the time is that, is that there are
now podcast apps that there's not a generic
podcasting 2.0 universe.
And I don't think it'll ever really happen.

(32:02):
Well, eventually enough apps will have enough features,
but it takes a long time.
These things take years and years and years
and years.
We saw that years, we saw that the
first time around, it just takes a long
time.
But now we have very apps that are
using 2.0 features, the podcast namespace features,
such as Fountain.
Fountain is clearly a niche app that is

(32:26):
serving a, an expand, slowly expanding universe of
people who want to use the Lightning Network,
Bitcoin, Noster, et cetera.
It's a, it's a specific app and it's
doing its job just fine.
And you know, I've actually, I've put my
feet back into Noster world.

(32:47):
I've found the Primal app, which is kind
of the first app that I found usable
for Noster.
It's a very small universe of people, but
I do get good help if I'm looking
for it there and I get reasonable traction
and, but by the same token, people can
pile on and yell at you and it's,
it can be very mean to you.

(33:08):
I'm looking at you, DeLorean.
Yeah.
Yeah.
She said I was a shill.
She's a shill for WaveLake.
Shut up.
A WaveLake shill?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Just, yeah.
Well, there you go.
There's WaveLake, which uses 2.0 features and
they have chosen to be very closed and

(33:30):
specific to the artists that are on their
platform.
That's, that's their business, you know?
And I think it's a mistake because I
think they should have all of the 2
.0 music in there, but I'm not a
jihadist about it.
At the same time, True Fans has clearly,
clearly planted a flag and saying, we're here.

(33:51):
I mean, the name says it, True Fans.
You're a True Fan.
You can come in, you can support your
favorite podcast.
You can support your favorite artist.
You can, you know, buy concert tickets.
You can, you know, buy things that you
can't listen, that is not value for value.
That's, that's great.
I think it's really good that, that we
have apps that are doing, this is always

(34:11):
from day one.
I've always said, what, what can we do
that's not the same inbox type app?
And there it is.
You know, the differentiators are clear, clearly delineated
right now.
By the same token, we have eaten the
dog food and we've created Godcaster.

(34:31):
And Godcaster is not an app.
It's a, it's a player, but it is
a very specific player for two, two main
customers.
One is radio stations, specifically faith-based radio
stations who are looking for a way to
transition to digital and for churches who are
content factories looking for a way to broadcast

(34:54):
out.
And the players that we're creating are specific
podcast players.
It's for a specific audience.
And it does very specific things for that
audience, which already understands donations or version of
the V4V model.
And they understand podcasts.

(35:16):
They understand video.
I'm surprised how many churches and pastors and
radio people have video.
Have you noticed this?
I have noticed it.
And it's some, every time we roll one
of these Godcaster players out to a new,

(35:38):
you know, customer, it's a learning experience.
Uh, and we, we, I, I learned, you
never realize how much you don't know until
you put software that you built in someone
else's hands and watch what they do with
it.
It's beautiful to watch, isn't it?
Cause, cause what you get asked questions that

(36:02):
you've never thought of before.
You're like, Hey, can I do so-and
-so or what, where is, where is X,
Y, or Z feature or where, or how,
what does this thing mean?
You're like, Whoa, I hadn't thought about that.
I had never thought about it.
Don't really know.
Yes, exactly.
Especially when it comes to user interface and

(36:25):
interact and the way people interact with a,
with, with an app or a product, you,
you don't like we're doing probably one of
the most difficult user interface, uh, jobs that
you can imagine.
We're, we're creating a JavaScript, HTML based, based

(36:49):
audio video player that gets, that gets pasted
into another person's website.
And that is so difficult because you have
to guardrail against every leaky piece of CSS

(37:11):
in every, like it's, it's a constant, um,
it's a constant battle to keep that website's
styles and, and defaults from coming through to
your, to your section of the page that
you've, that you're essentially living on rented land
or vice versa, having our, having our players
screw up their page, which has also happened.

(37:34):
And you know, that that's, it's probably.
And so when you, when you finally roll
this thing out, um, it's, you're like, Oh
man, what?
And you have to like rapidly sometime.
There's been a couple of instances where we've
had to rapidly re-engineer, uh, like the

(37:56):
entire style system in the player in order,
like within like 48 hours to get this
thing from, to keep from breaking something.
And this is like, this is why people,
uh, the web is great in some, in
many ways, the open web is great in
many ways, but this is why also why

(38:17):
people don't like UI for the web is
because it has these problems.
Um, it's a, it's the wild west.
I mean, you know, we, we've seen websites
where people, um, have styled, they've just put
a CSS tag in, they've put a CSS
rule in to put a background transition on

(38:41):
every link, every anchor tag, link tags.
I've seen blink tags on some of these
websites.
Yes.
And you're like, you're like every, they just
put in a, for the anchor tag and
then some crazy style.
And you're like, why would you ever do
that?
Why are you not using class names?
Why are you not using anything other than

(39:01):
just doing it raw like that?
And so it's, I think, I mean, the
reason I'm talking about all that is because
the, the idea that like what, what true,
what true fans is doing, what fountains doing,
um, you're getting really, you know, we're all
getting specialized like what you're saying.

(39:23):
We're, we're, we're trying to make podcasting serve
a very specific sections of, of listenership.
And then, you know, depending on where, where
that niche resides, you're going to have a
different set of hurdles and priorities to overcome.

(39:43):
I, that's, that's why I really don't balk
too much at like, uh, Oscar and then,
you know, in Wavelake using Noster because that's
where their niche is.
Yes.
Yes.
So many of their customers are right there.
It doesn't make like, it makes perfect sense
for them to do that.
It, you know, we, we may have technological
issues with it and see shortcomings in the

(40:05):
protocol, but it doesn't matter because that's where
they live and that's where their customers live.
So they have to do those sort of
things.
It's the same way with true fans and
Sam, um, saying, you know, Hey, I've got
to take, I've got to be able to
take Fiat.
I've got to be able to do like
Apple pay top up because he's, but he's

(40:27):
like, my audience just simply does not understand
SATS and I'm, I'm trying to get it
there, but I can't like beat my head
against, against the wall the whole time.
So I've learned a lot on, on the
non-technical side.
Although first of all, it's just been a
pleasure to be working with you once again,
I'm doing, um, I'm building something.
We've done this many times over 15 years

(40:49):
and I love it so much.
It's fun.
It's like old, it's like old comfortable shoes.
That's right.
Hey, we're getting the band back together.
It's like, yep, string up.
Okay.
Um, so if people want to see, so
my, the long-term vision here, and we
have a, we have a third partner, Gordon,
the long-term vision here is I, I

(41:11):
believe is what hellofred.fm is doing.
I've always said the, the gaping hole in
podcasting, and I've proven this just by mentioning
this once on no agenda, I had to
put together a primer as to how you
get your local podcast started hyperlocalpodcast.com.
Um, the gaping hole is what that radio

(41:34):
has left, uh, that, that all media has
left is local and specifically hyperlocal.
So I happen to have a hyperlocal location,
which is where I live in Fredericksburg, Texas
with 11 and a half or 12,000
people.
Um, but we have a lot of things
going on because 2 million people a year
visit Fredericksburg.
So we have tons of stuff happening here.

(41:55):
Um, we have, you know, the same issues
you have in any, in any small town
or County or Berg, we've got city council
issues.
We've got school board issues.
We've got, you know, just issues, um, and
then tourist issues.
And there's no, and we have one local
newspaper that publishes once a week.
We happen to have 30 churches here.

(42:15):
So hellofred.fm, hellofred, Fred for Fredericksburg, um,
uses, it's just a simple HTML, uh, page
that I've just rammed the Godcaster into.
And you'll see that I have a 24,
seven stream running.
And the whole idea of the stream is
it's playing music in this place, in this
case, uh, contemporary Christian music, and it's promoing

(42:36):
things happening in town.
It's using content from the church that I,
that Tina and I go to, which is
bridge church.
It has a short devotional that has promotions
about things going on at the church, but
we also put in stuff about, um, and
I'm expanding it, obviously, um, about what's happening
at city council.
And then we promo podcasts that are made

(42:58):
locally or that are pertinent to, um, to
something that's happening with hellofred.fm, the station.
So you have this live stream and this
live stream is outpacing some radio stations.
I mean, it's amazing.
And I should mention on the back end
of Godcaster, we have extensive, um, statistics.

(43:20):
So we know everything that's happening.
We know a lot that's going on.
And so you can literally see someone listening
to the live stream.
I know when the promo hit, and then
I can see them going to Curry and
the Keeper and starting to listen.
I mean, this, this is mind blowing stuff.
So, you know, my next mission is to
start getting more local con.

(43:41):
I want young people involved creating local podcasts
about what, let them go out into town
and figure it out.
I'm too old for this stuff, but I'll
certainly, I'll certainly mentor them.
And so this is now becoming, it's, it
really is extremely successful.
We have hundreds of people a day checking
in on the live stream and you're seeing
them moving over and listening to the different

(44:04):
podcasts.
And what I have learned is that people
of all ages don't really care that much
about an app per se.
They're like, oh, I just go to this
hellofred.fm. They don't even know what a
webpage is.
I'm telling you, they don't know what a
webpage is.
I've said, I've said to grown people my
age and younger, I go to hellofred.fm,

(44:25):
they open up DuckDuckGo or they hit Safari.
And for some reason, the address bar is
no longer an address bar.
It's just a search bar.
It's usually at the bottom and they type
in hellofred.dot.fm. This is the level
of sophistication we're talking about.
So, and then they'll just, they'll just click

(44:47):
it.
They don't know.
They have no idea what, what is happening.
And then when I show them the universal
app, which I'm starting to like as a,
as a marketing term, instead of progressive web
app, when I say use, you know, use
the universal app and they click on the
little mobile icon and they learn how to
install it on their home screen.

(45:09):
That's their thing.
They're, they use it.
They're not going back.
And as we've progressed and we've been talking
to radio stations, we know that TuneIn has
given up on podcasts.
TuneIn is a failed company.
And the only business TuneIn still has is
charging 65 bucks a month for your listing.
I know because I have hellofred.fm listed

(45:31):
in TuneIn and I did that only so
that people could get it on Sonos because
guess what?
You can't just add a stream on Sonos.
Oh no, those guys have locked their shit
down.
So it's very hard.
So it's $65 a month to be listed
in TuneIn?
Yep.
65 bucks a month.

(45:52):
Yeah.
Now, now a lot of that's if you're
new and you want to come in.
And by the way, I got listed within
24 hours.
I mean, it's the company has a processes
that still work, but no podcast is going
to pay for a listing.
So they don't care about you.
No.
And they've grandfathered in a lot.
I'm sure that, you know, most of the
big stations don't pay for it, but if
you want to be on there now, you
have to pay to get listed, but it's

(46:13):
basically a failed system because everyone takes their
phone into the car.
Car companies have all but given up on
in-car entertainment because you're bringing your, your
iPhone, your Android using Android auto or CarPlay.
And so coincidentally, and this is the part
I really like, you can subscribe to your

(46:34):
Godcaster in this case, hellofred.fm with one
click in any modern podcast app.
And now all of a sudden you've got
my live streaming radio station through CarPlay on
fountain or on a podcast guru or podcast
addict.
I mean, this stuff really works.
This is the stuff that we've built for.

(46:56):
And yeah.
And that's, that's been, that's been part of
the difficult thing to get just radio stations
to understand is the, the transition to digital
is really a transition to podcasting.
Um, but especially now, especially now that we
have the, the 2.0 live item tag

(47:17):
really gets rid of any, there's, there's really
no podcasting is radio for all intents and
purposes, or it can be.
And so if you're, you know, if you're
on, if you're, you have a church or
a radio station or whatever, and you click
to follow the player in a, you know,

(47:38):
it just, it asks you what podcast app
you're going to use, you know, what are
you going to use to, uh, uh, uh,
true fans, fountain, customatic, podcast addict, what you
just get, you know, podverse, it gives you
a list of apps that we know support
those critical features and even ones that don't,
uh, like apple podcasts or whatever.
But we try to push those down to

(47:58):
the bottom because they don't have a live
item support, but 2.0 podcasting 2.0
really, it enables the full digital transition from,
from broadcast to podcasting because podcasting really, the
thing that was the thing that I think

(48:19):
the reason that many, uh, radio stations don't
think about podcasting as, as the next logical
step in the transition is because it's not,
it has always been synonymous with on demand.
Yes.
And, and that seems like it's just not,

(48:42):
it doesn't mentally jive for most, you know,
radio people because they're like, you know, my
program grid is, is always going, it's live.
It's not a, I mean, sure we can
provide these things on demand, but there's always
going to be some component, which is the
live component that is just not, that's not

(49:03):
podcasting, but we'll, we'll guess what it is
now because to, because of the 2.0
tag and, and yeah, and that, that makes
it a full experience.
And with the live tag.
So what I've done is I just set
up a live 365 station and I'm playing
licensed music.
I pay for that, you know, live 365
gives you a, when you use it for

(49:24):
licensed music, you pay your ASCAP, BMI, your
PRI, your Buma Stemra does it for all
over the world.
Basically it pays and which is limiting and
can get expensive.
But what's interesting is that people are giving
up on K-Love, the number one Christian
music station, which has broadcast stations all over

(49:46):
the country.
These guys, I mean, they do like $400
million a year in donations.
This is a huge station.
People are giving that up and they're saying
to me, I like Hello Fred better because
it has the music I like and it
has stuff from my town.
I'm hearing about what's going on in Fredericksburg

(50:06):
and it has stuff from my pastor or,
you know, or from people I know who,
and I can go and listen to the
podcast later if I want to.
And it's all in one place.
It's like such a no brainer.
So what are we doing?
A very highly specialized podcast app.
And this has always been that for quite

(50:26):
a while, this has been my view.
And this is why I said, make the
Rachel Maddow app.
I mean, you could make it for this
a hundred different types of niches and audience
demographics I can think of.
But I really like the local one because
that's where the most opportunity is.

(50:47):
And we're not pitching for any support.
You know, I think we're a long way
off from even needing to do that.
But I'm quite certain that my local community
here will support if I ask them to
support Hello Fred.
They will support it because they know it's
for their local area.

(51:08):
Now, it's not, it's never going to be
Joe Rogan money.
You can only have so many Joe Rogans,
which by the way, is something we need
to talk about because we're seeing saturation now.
We're seeing complete saturation of this format.
Is if there is a, if there's a
thing that I think maybe we missed in

(51:31):
the whole idea, because the whole idea of
podcasting 2.0 from the very beginning was
to get was that app developers share in
the revenue stream, right?
And if they're, because the money in podcasting,
even though we knew it wasn't, you know,
honestly, $2 billion.
I mean, that was always kind of ridiculous,

(51:52):
but we thought it was big.
I'm of the opinion now that it was
that most of that is a smoke screen,
that there's much, you know, what we saw
happen two years ago with sort of the
collapse of much of, of the podcasting world

(52:13):
as far as big money and that kind
of thing goes.
Much of that collapse, I think it was
just, was just reality reasserting itself.
And so if that's the case, see, because
we, you know, at least me, I'm just,
let me just speak from my own mindset
real quick.

(52:33):
I mean, my own mindset was that, okay,
here's all this money that's going to, that's
going to, to podcasters and the app developers
are not getting any part of that.
But there's, I guess the reality is they

(52:54):
were, there was nothing really there for them
to get.
But let me try to, let me try
to say this a different way.
This might work better.
It seems like the reality is that the
pod, the podcast apps and their revenue is
probably more indicative of the reality of the

(53:15):
financial side of podcasting than, than what is
reported as the big deals and, and the
$2 billion and all these things.
Like that was never, that was never real.
You know what I mean?
Cause the numbers are so smokescreened.

(53:36):
We still don't know what, where this money
is or where it's going.
And I mean, nobody can give you a
real answer to any of this stuff.
Right.
And so if that's the case, the mistake,
at least on my part, was thinking that
there was a lot of money for app
developers to have.

(53:58):
Right.
And outside, and now that doesn't mean that,
let me see how to say this.
Okay.
So that means that in order for the
app developers to get this, to get the
cut of the revenue, what's had to happen

(54:20):
is that the revenue has to be created,
not just, not just adopted, not just co
co-opt like, um, because it wasn't there
to begin with.
So what has to happen is there has
to develop a value for value ecosystem in

(54:40):
order for the revenue to even exist, to
then be split to the app developers.
Yes.
And that's what Hyperlocal does.
Hyperlocal creates a podcasting revenue source into the
system.
Because the app being used is valuable to
that ecosystem.
Yes.

(55:00):
And that's what has happened with Fountain and
with TrueFans.
And, uh, and honestly with Castamatic, with Podverse,
they, now, now they're going about, they're not
like, they're getting some percentage of the split
from the Lightning ecosystem, but they're also getting,

(55:22):
um, a large surge in interest of just
people paying for the app, you know, supporting
monthly, that kind of thing.
And that's also valid.
And so because it's a, it's a reflection,
even though it's not a percentage of, of
donations or something like that, it is a,
is a reflection of how much people value
that app in their own life and to

(55:43):
their own experience.
Correct.
So if that's, you know, this all just
tells me that, that the hype, the Hyperlocal
part is, is sort of critical to podcasting,
uh, even having a valid revenue to begin
with.

(56:03):
And, and what happened is not, um, abnormal
or is not unexpected is, you know, when
you have charts, when you have, you know,
awards, all the things that replicate the old
system, which is very typical, is very typical.
That's a new technology is created.
And we try to shoehorn the old way
of thinking into it.

(56:24):
Um, that results in only a few apps
being number one, whatever that for good or
for bad, a few, um, podcasters getting all
the money or a lot of money or
seeming not necessarily ad based money because the
Spotify and Amazon Wondery deals, all this stuff

(56:45):
that's wasn't necessarily based upon.
It was based upon a forward-looking projection
of what they thought they can do in
advertising revenue.
I think it's well-established now that that
failed, um, with Spotify.
Um, um, so, you know, there's only, there's
always going to be a Beyonce and a

(57:07):
Taylor Swift, um, and all the rest will
needs.
It's the same with artists.
Artists have Hyperlocal communities of interest and of
love, love of the artists, love of their
music.
And those people will support.
And they've only been asked to buy t
-shirts, you know?

(57:27):
So if all you have is a t
-shirt, then that's all people are going to
buy.
But when you now have a way to
say, send me value, they do it.
They do it.
It's amazing.
So it's, it's this Hyperlocal thinking where the
future lies and it's the future of everything.
You're always going to have one Netflix.

(57:48):
You will have a Netflix.
All the other stuff is going to be
very, very difficult unless it's very specific and
very small and very focused.
And you can have a lot of success
and a lot of happiness doing that.
I gotta tell you, I haven't been this
happy in a long time, Dave Jones.
Amen, brother.
So did you see this Michael Magnano thing,

(58:12):
the post on X about how they were
getting anchor feeds into Apple?
And no, I don't know what that's about.
Okay, good.
I think Nathan pointed it out and then
James carried it this morning, I believe.
Oh, I missed that.
This is, this is sort of, this is,
it goes along with this discussion.
He starts off this post by saying, here's

(58:33):
the secret, here's the secret hack, you know,
you know, Magnano, he's, he's the founder of
Anchor.
He said, here's the secret hack that enabled
us to distribute millions of podcasts to Apple
without writing a single line of code during
the early days of Anchor and before we
sold Spotify.
So, you know, the, the question is always
how, how were they getting all these shows

(58:54):
automated into Apple podcasts?
Yeah.
Because there's no API for that.
Right.
Were they, were they using some sort of
corporate account where it was?
Oh yeah, I remember this.
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause they were just pumping millions of podcasts
into Apple podcasts, just out of the blue.
And so jump into the, jump into the

(59:15):
punch line.
He says, with only a few months of
runway left before we were out of business,
we had an idea.
What if we used humans to distribute the
podcast by hand instead of building technology?
And so we tried it.
We hired college students to stay by their
computers and to wait the moment a user
wanted to distribute a podcast.

(59:36):
Once that happened, they manually created an RSS
feed and hand submitted them to Apple podcasts
and other platforms through their podcast connect portal.
It was a perfect use case for the
quote, do things that don't scale mantra.
No bigger company would ever think to do
something so absurd.
And it was a completely dumb, non-innovative
solutions.
So most startups wouldn't do it, but it

(59:58):
worked at its peak.
We had hundreds of people submitting podcasts on
any given day.
Within months, we became the biggest podcasting platform
in the world by a lot.
And not too long after we were acquired
by Spotify.
So this, this is what I mean by
the numbers are, have always been just all

(01:00:21):
over podcasting.
They've always been phony.
It's all phony.
It's like the old days of hits.
We got a million hits this week.
Podcasting was never as big as it looked.
It was never as flush with money as
it looked.
All of that was, was just not true.
And the, the, we, I mean, we knew

(01:00:43):
that intuitively from just the index stats.
I mean, the index, the index of stats
have reflected that since day one, you know,
there's four and, you know, four to 5
million podcasts yet somehow only 150,000 of
them update every 30 days.
Yeah, exactly.

(01:01:03):
And so if that's the case, what it,
what it tells me is that podcasting is
actually still building itself.
There was a, there was a period of
time where Anchor and a couple of other
companies came in and artificially inflated podcasting to

(01:01:28):
something that was just completely untrue and ridiculous.
And I don't think we've gotten out of
that mindset.
We know it intellectually, but the sort of
emotional momentum of what we thought podcasting was
four years ago, I don't think it's burned
off yet.
We, we, we have to, we have to

(01:01:49):
keep, we have to keep reminding ourselves of
what reality is.
And reality is there's only about 150,000
podcasts that update every 30 days.
That is reality.
And that is completely inconsistent with $2 billion.
Yes.

(01:02:09):
Well, I, I did stumble across something that
I wanted to share.
We stumbled across this yesterday in no agenda.
And I'm so back up a little bit,
this whole, you've got to have video, you've
got to have video, you've got to have
video, you've got to video.
The reason why, and that really, and that
is synonymous with YouTube, YouTube, YouTube is because

(01:02:31):
people are on YouTube and people use YouTube
and they listen to stuff on YouTube.
I mean, I, I listen, I'll start a
something on YouTube and I'll be doing the
dishes and I'm just listening to it.
And it's just a place where you can
put your stuff and people come across it.
Algos kick in at a certain amount.
And so all the upside is there.

(01:02:53):
The downside is you don't control it.
You don't control, you just don't, you've lost
control.
You don't control your audience.
You don't own your audience.
You have nothing except you have better first
person data and you have a promise of
maybe making some money.
So that's fine.
I can tell you right now in 2025,
YouTube is going to go all out on

(01:03:15):
what they call podcasting.
And what they call podcasting is the Joe
Rogan format.
And I'm sure that a lot, and you
know, if I had a nickel for every
single time, someone says, well, my kids where
I see the young people and they think
that's podcasting.
Yeah, they do.
They do.
But they'll also call this a podcast.

(01:03:37):
You know, they're not stupid.
They're not idiots, you know, but they think
a podcast is two people talking with headphones
on and microphones in a studio where you
can smoke.
That's, that's what a podcast.
Now, so YouTube is about to drop millions
and millions and millions of dollars on this.

(01:03:58):
And so gird your loins at the same
time.
Wow.
What an opportunity to build something else while
everyone is looking at that for a moment,
because the mega deals are coming and I'm
going to prove it to you.
This is Chris Cuomo.
And Chris Cuomo used to be primetime anchor

(01:04:19):
on CNN.
And then somewhere in, in or right after
the COVID period, co-locally known as the
COVID period.
It came out that he and his brother,
his brother, his older brother was governor of
New York.
And you know, he was helping him out.

(01:04:40):
And you know, it's all these not done
if you're someone in the news business, and
you have him backdoor conversations with politicians, whatever,
long story short, he gets kicked off of
CNN.
And then he winds up eventually on NewsNation,
another cable station, but he's really gotten into
podcasting.
And he does his, he's been doing his

(01:05:00):
podcast for a while.
And he's a very irritating man to me.
But his most recent podcast, he, he did
a, he did a prediction.
And I was wondering why he did the
prediction and I'll play these clips and we'll
talk about it.
Oh, I hope 2025 is everything you wanted
it to be.

(01:05:21):
You see, this is why I don't like
this guy.
That's him.
Yeah, that's him.
That's, that's bear bear with me.
Bear with me.
Oh, I hope 2025 is everything you wanted
it to be.
How do we know we just started?
I'm Chris Cuomo.
Welcome to the Chris Cuomo project.
I'm going to do something that I don't
really ever do make predictions.

(01:05:42):
And I'm bringing in for the help with
this segment, the one and only the inimitable,
the new daddy, Mr. Greg Ott, not real
name.
This is his, his version of Jamie.
He has his producer, Jamie.
His name is Greg.
My producer.
Okay.
I've got a prediction.
Number one, the pod scape is going to
change.
Now I love the word pod scape, by

(01:06:03):
the way, something about calling it the pod
scape would just tickle me.
And the people who were at the top
last year will not be at the top
all of this year.
So this is pertinent to the podcast.
This is a podcast you're presumably watching.
Here's what has happened.
Okay.
Now money rushed into the pod space and

(01:06:24):
tons of big and bad deal.
The pod space is being inconsistent.
He went from pods, but pod scape is
still my favorite.
Okay.
But now it's not about man, but money
rushed in.
What's that?
The manosphere.
That's he dropped.
They dropped that.
Oh yeah.
Manosphere.
Sure.
Okay.
Now money rushed into the pod space and
tons of big and bad deals were made

(01:06:46):
in the last five years.
That money has dried up.
There's an, there's an aphorism in investing.
You never want to be first dollar in
first dollar and got killed.
People were given a lot of money for
their podcasts and people have gone broke.
Okay.
Stop, stop, stop that thing.
I need some context here.

(01:07:07):
Is he, how long has he been podcasting?
Oh, for, for years.
Okay.
So this is not something new for him.
No, no, no.
He's been in the game because I've never
heard of Chris Cuomo podcast.
It's the, it's the Chris Cuomo project.
Was he podcasting as part of CNN or
was he podcasting on his own in addition
to his CNN?
The minute he got canned, he started a

(01:07:29):
podcast and then, and he kept that going.
And now he's, he keeps doing the podcast
while he also has his news nation program.
So he's, he's, for all intents and purposes,
a podcaster.
You can subscribe to him in a podcast
app.
And of course you can also get them
on YouTube and we'll get to that in
a moment.
First dollar and got killed.
People were given a lot of money for

(01:07:49):
their podcasts and people have gone broke.
This is, I don't know what he's talking
about here.
Nobody went broke, but okay.
I mean, maybe that one, what was that
one company?
Oh yeah.
One.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, what was that?
Whatever.
Yeah.
The one, yeah.
The one that Theo Vaughn was part of.
Yeah.
That one.
Kind of like what happened when Sirius thought
that having Howard Stern would make them like

(01:08:12):
a household thing hasn't happened.
Just made him really rich.
But it's not like Sirius is everywhere now,
right?
They're just mainly in like rental cars.
Second dollar in with the pod scape.
With this election, people now know that you
can get banged for your buck and you
can get reach and resonance.
And I'm telling you on the right and

(01:08:33):
on the anti-institutional side, you're going to
do a lot better than Joe Rogan and
his merry band of, you know, cut rate
comedians.
Okay.
So he's very underhanded.
I really don't know what he's trying to
say.
It'll become clear.
Listen to the prediction he makes in this
next bit.
And I'm not saying that those guys will

(01:08:54):
disappear, but you're going to see better, bigger
talent come in.
Like what?
A guy like a Bill Burr.
Now this is very important.
Bill Burr is a comedian like Rogan, but
Bill Burr has a podcast, but Bill Burr
is a, he's, I'd say he's more of
a leftist thinking type person.

(01:09:15):
And yeah, he's, you know, he's all in
on COVID vax and, you know, the antithesis
really of Rogan, even though he'll be on
Rogan show, but they get into big arguments.
So he's more leftist.
Is going to get enticed into that space.
A guy like Louis CK.
Louis CK is another fine example, much more
left leaning than right leaning.
Burr has a podcast.

(01:09:36):
Jim Gaffigan would be in that.
Jim Gaffigan.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Saying, ramping it up, that there's going to
be money that puts it into a sphere
where he's sitting with major people as opposed
to it just being an end.
That's what I'm saying.
Instead of it just being like an end
to what Bill Burr does, it's going to
be his thing.
Okay.
Stephen A.

(01:09:56):
Smith.
Stephen A.
Smith is a black guy.
ESPN.
I would say he could go either way,
but I would say also he could go
much more left than right.
This is very, this is, and there's a
reason for this.
Is going to explode on the landscape of
conversation.
Is going to explode.
How does Chris Cuomo know this?

(01:10:17):
It's going to explode.
I was very curious now.
Okay.
And again, no disrespect to Rogan.
You must give him his props for building
a platform.
Good for him.
But now you're going to have better talent
in that space.
Okay.
Okay.
So I'm listening to this and now I'm
realizing because this, I catch this on YouTube.
Um, because someone sent it to me and

(01:10:41):
I see in the background is a YouTube
award, like some platinum award.
You know, they give you awards when you
have X number of viewers.
Yeah.
A hundred thousand followers.
Or more.
This is, this is, well, this one has
diamonds on it.
And now I'm thinking, wait a minute.
Cuomo's been read in on this.
Why is he bringing up all of these
leftist type comedians?

(01:11:04):
And at this point, Dvorak said to me,
this is exactly what they said about Rush
Limbaugh.
If people don't know who Rush Limbaugh was,
Rush Limbaugh passed away.
He was the conservative voice of AM talk
radio throughout America.
And the Democrats in America, the left, left,
politically left-minded groups always said, we need

(01:11:29):
our Rush Limbaugh.
We need our Rush Limbaugh.
And so what I believe has happened and
Cuomo is read in is, and Google is
run by Democrats.
This is, they, they cried the first time
Trump got elected.
This run by Democrats, there is a deal
they're going to get.

(01:11:49):
They're going to get not just one, not
two, but maybe five Joe Rogans for the
left.
And money is going to flow.
It's just a piggyback on that.
This came out recently that more people are
watching podcasts now on YouTube, and you've been
doing this.
This podcast dropped first on YouTube.
So now they're shilling for YouTube.
And then this is a YouTube shill.

(01:12:09):
Yes, yes.
This is how I knew it was true.
From the beginning, we're like.
That was such an inorganic transition.
It went straight into YouTube and YouTube, YouTube,
YouTube, YouTube.
Hey, let's put myself online.
People want to see me and hear me.
So it's like, you know, one product to
one.
But it's the confluence is interesting to me
of like, this thing you used to listen
to.
Well, it's quite easy to get a setup,
you know, in your house like this and

(01:12:31):
broadcast.
Yes.
In a very DIY way.
And people are now, especially a lot of
the YouTube stats are, more people are watching
things on their televisions and thus.
I don't know if that's true, but okay.
You've been told by YouTube to say that.
You sit down and watch a show.
It's kind of replacing talk shows.
We talked about this before, but like, yeah,
this is a.
Prediction one A is you will see mergers

(01:12:54):
in stream platforms.
Can you say Spotify strategy?
This is YouTube is doing the exact same
thing.
They're going to buy up.
You could buy rumble.
Rumble is a public company.
Their stock is pretty low.
You could tender.
You could buy rumble.
You could buy, I don't know, bit shoot
or whatever else.
They're going to buy up just like they

(01:13:15):
bought up anchor and other hosting companies at
Spotify.
It's the same dumb.
I might add strategy.
I went to YouTube early because I believe
video kills the radio star.
What can I say about that?
Whatever people want to see more than they
want to listen.
I'm not telling you not to listen.
Look, it's not my thing.
I do an audio book every now and

(01:13:36):
then.
I'd rather read, but I want to see
why?
Because I'm a visual learner and you take
so much more in from people when you're
actually seeing them.
Oh, yeah, that makes a big difference.
But that's that's beside the point.
This at this point, it's a commercial for
the award he has behind him.
He's read in.
He's going to be a part of it.
Obviously, reading them texts, you get the least

(01:13:58):
context, the least feel hearing their voice.
You get more, but seeing them and hearing
them.
So to me, it's a no brainer.
But what you will see prediction one A
is consolidation in platforms, because the problem right
now is there are too many different places
that you have to go and you need
to monetize and they are going to start
buying each other up.

(01:14:19):
Now, Chris Cuomo is what we in America
call shwarmy.
He's a shwarmy guy.
I guarantee you he has been read in.
They're going to find a Rogan for the
left and it's probably going to be the
Stephen A.
Was it a Smith, the ESPN guy?
A Smith.
Yeah, he's popular.

(01:14:39):
Yeah.
And they're going to shell out millions and
millions of dollars.
We'll have the big Rogan type deals.
It'll all be YouTube.
And it'll be great.
And they'll call it podcasting.
By the way, they'll call it podcasting.
That never works.
No, it never works.
Because the thing whenever you say, hey, we're

(01:15:00):
going to go get our version of this.
It doesn't matter what sphere it's in.
OK, so do you remember?
Air America, baby.
Air America is the example.
Do you remember the brief period of time
that Rush Limbaugh was on the NFL?
Sunday morning show.
Yeah, I remember the Rush Limbaugh television show.

(01:15:20):
Yeah.
Also didn't work.
This is what this is what happens because
you have a.
Like this is what always says, let's say
it's Stephen A.
Smith.
Yeah, you you bring you bring this you
bring this person in.
And they are now in a they're now
in a.
A milieu that they're not where they're that

(01:15:45):
they're not comfortable with.
Like you've taken Stephen A.
Smith out of ESPN, out of predominantly a
sports mindset where he can sort of safely
venture off into political commentary, but using sports
as this launchpad.
And now you take you take him out
of there and you stick him purely in
a political realm.
Yeah, it fails immediately.

(01:16:07):
It just will ultimately it will totally fail.
That's what happened to Rush Limbaugh.
They stuck him in an entirely sports context
and he said things in that context that
he was comfortable saying on his own show.
But didn't work within that immediately got him
canceled within three weeks.
So my point being, this is going to

(01:16:28):
happen.
The money that is in political parties and
political groups and and power based power bases
is enormous.
It'll be real money and Google's going to
spend it and you and it will all
be called podcasting.
And I think we should be very happy.

(01:16:49):
They're all going to do that because meanwhile,
we can build all of our little apps
and do all our things and make make
specific if you want to local, but hyperlocal,
either geographic or of interest.
And it's going to be very successful because
the format is saturated.
No one's looking for this anymore.

(01:17:10):
Brogan, Theo Vaughn, Lex Friedman, Tucker Carlson, Megyn
Kelly, Dan Bongino.
So now they're just going to add a
whole bunch of those who talk from a
different political perspective.
It's going to be boring.
The guests will burn out.
You'll have overexposure.
It's not a good idea for them, but

(01:17:31):
they're going to do it anyway.
And the person with headphones interviews another person
with headphones.
That format is just it's just there's too
much of it.
Yep, exactly.
I mean, there's just so many.
There's so many.
We could sit here and we could spend
15 minutes and probably come up with 150
of these.
Well, true crime.

(01:17:51):
True crime is the winner.
Yeah, it's not video.
It's audio.
It works.
People love it.
No agenda is not going to do video.
We're not going to do it.
We're not going to do it.
But Adam, how are people going to learn
from you?
How will these learners?
These visual learners won't get enough from us.
So that is that's what's going to happen

(01:18:12):
in 2025.
I had a interesting sort of like during
our off our two weeks of not doing
of not doing the show like during the
holidays.
Yeah, I had a I mean, I mostly
was podcast free during that time.
Oh, wow.
And I mean, I listen I listen to
a few things, you know, I listen to

(01:18:33):
I listen to no agenda and I listen
to maybe one other show.
And but most most of the time I
was podcast free, a lot of it had
to do with just fact that I was
just so busy.
But I found I found, as I have
in the past, that there are many shows.
Where there's a schedule.

(01:18:56):
And the schedule dictates I'm going to do
this show every X number of days, weeks,
whatever.
And a lot of times there's just not
that much to talk about.
You know, the some sometimes there's shows that
are focused around like political news or a
specific company like Apple News or something like

(01:19:18):
that.
And those tend to be a little more
resilient to this problem.
But some shows, it's just like, you know,
there's just not a whole lot to talk
about.
But you're going to do a show, but
you're going to do a show anyway, because
you're you have to.
And a lot of times you just like
it burns out the listener to that's the
way it feels like with guests, with these

(01:19:39):
with these interview shows.
A lot of times these guests are just
not interesting.
The topic's not interesting, but it's like, hey,
it's a it's a Tuesday.
So we got to release a show.
And it's like, man, I just really I
am not going to sit through an hour
and a half of listening to this person
that you just like ran trying to do
a book deal or whatever.

(01:20:00):
I don't know that you're right, that format.
And honestly, a lot of a lot of
the non news based formats are are pretty
they're just not long term compelling.
No, you get burned out as a listener.
Like, it's like you start skipping episodes because

(01:20:20):
you're like, and you're like, I'm just I
can't handle this today.
It's already that way with just one with
Rogan.
It's like, I don't know about that person.
I'm not going to listen to this episode.
Yeah, I skip I skip there's there's shows
that I skip 10 episodes to listen to
one, you know, exactly.
But my but my podcast app still auto

(01:20:41):
downloads.
So they get their money.
Yeah, yeah.
Add money's rolling.
Very good.
Dave, let's thank some people before I need
to get you out of here because you're
still still not in the summer months.
And I'm going to look at the live
boost that came in while we're talking.
555 from Salty Crayon, who says, hey, second

(01:21:01):
exit strategy headphones, curry cans one.
Yeah, all right.
We can't even get the curry mic one
up and rolling.
I've got one.
That's right.
There are two in the wild, two in
the wild.
2222 Road Ducks from Anonymous and Anonymous on
Podver says cool animated background in the live

(01:21:21):
stream artwork.
Yes, we've had that for a while.
Cole McCormick just boosted in with the Satchel
Richards 1111.
I'm burned out with listening to Rogan, he
says.
I personally want more interviews on my podcast,
but I want the guests to be interesting
and not boring.
Solo episodes are still interesting.
Yes, well, of course, it's always the content.
777 from Sam Sethi says strapping in to
test the split box paid in dollars from

(01:21:44):
true fans, but sent over lightning and sats
and still supporting splits.
Beautiful.
Strap it on.
Strap it on.
100 sats from Lyceum.
Dave, what are you drinking?
Do you have micro breweries in your area?
For sure.
Yes.
He says, I'm a tea amateur lover of
things in French language.
Adam, you're a radio amateur, right?
It is called Radio Amateur in Swedish.

(01:22:06):
All the best.
Martin Lindeskog, Tea Party Media Podcast.
All right.
Blueberry.
Whoa, blueberry boosting in big 33,420 sats.
He says fast approaching January 12th.
What's happening?
The satellite skirmish Polar Embrace live after no
agenda on January 12th.
We have both returning and familiar faces joining
this edition.

(01:22:26):
What am I most excited for?
We have new boost alerts featuring the artwork
from the young Bolets.
I've never put children into a value split,
but I'm thrilled to do it now.
Nothing like child labor.
Check it out at LiveIsLit.com.
All right.
Glad you like the sign.
He says, just need to get it to
flash on a pod ping update.

(01:22:47):
Oh, there you go.
EricPP333 with a test.
He did something with a test.
I don't know if anything came through.
Well, test received.
Let me see.
Then we have, oh, I hit the delimiter.
Wait, I just started a new one come
in.
EricPP with 3333.
And, uh, that must be another test.
He's testing something.

(01:23:08):
They're testing.
What are they building in there?
And they're testing on something.
You're up.
Me too, Alex.
I've actually turned off auto.
I had a problem with my Castamatic.
The new update on test flight.
It started freaking out and like, um, locking
my phone up and stuff.
I haven't talked to Franco about it, but

(01:23:29):
it was, man, it was really causing a
lot of problems.
Oh, I hate it when that happens.
Yeah, I did a fresh install and went
back to the app store, uh, release.
And when I did that, it came back.
Like it's sort of like, like reset itself.
And so I had a lot of, uh,
my son, a lot of my settings, like
my auto download was kind of turned off

(01:23:51):
app wide.
And I kind of, I was like, I
don't know.
I kind of enjoy this.
I never have it on.
I never have it on the only, I
mean, I use podcast guru mainly.
So when we got on the plane to
fly to Italy, I just, you know, downloaded
the podcast and wanted to listen to it
on the plane.
Worked great.
I never, I always just hit it and

(01:24:11):
go.
I never have stuff auto download ever.
Yeah.
I think I'm going to live the non
-auto downloading lifestyle.
Works fine for me.
Uh, we got, uh, I talked to Tom
Rossi this morning about some stuff.
He was helping him pull some stats and
stuff from the index.
And speaking of, uh, Tom Rossi, Buzzsprout just
sent us a thousand dollars.

(01:24:37):
Thank you.
Buzzsprout.
Thank you.
Thank you for keeping us rolling.
Nice.
Paying the bills.
Thank you guys.
And let's see, we got, we also have,
Oh, who is this?
Chow Chow taxing $20.
He says, thank you from Playdeo cast.
Playdeo cast.

(01:25:00):
Playdeo.
I don't know this.
I don't know this platform or app or
whatever it is.
I'm looking up Playdeo cast.
P L a P L a Y D
O cast.
C A S T.
Playdeo cast.
Castamatic going to settings service and rebuild library.
Ooh, I wish I'd have known that.
Okay.
Thank you, Dreb.

(01:25:21):
Thank you, Dreb.
I'll do that next time.
Uh, let's see.
Sean McCune.
He's a new monthly subscriber at $20 a
month.
Thank you, Sean.
Appreciate you, brother.
I love the crumple effects today, Dave.
They're extra special.
Extended.
This is extended edition.

(01:25:42):
So we got booster grams.
All right.
Uh, these, these, these go way back.
Yes.
To December 13th.
Whoa.
Yeah.
Cause we, cause of the week.
We took some time off.
Uh, Columbus or Libre 22, 22 road ducks.

(01:26:02):
Fro see that was through the podcast index.
He says great meeting.
As always.
I'm glad things seem to be settling down.
We've got the best devs in the universe.
There's nothing they can't accomplish.
This boost boost boost.
So true.
Uh, we have through fountain.
This is, this is my favorite guy.
It's user three, six, two, one, nine, seven,
seven.
So that guy.

(01:26:22):
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love that guy.
19,000 sats from user three, two, six,
19, seven.
Thank you.
He says, uh, Merry Christmas boardroom.
Thank you very much.
Well, Merry Christmas to you.
Boost pod two.
This is going to be Russell.
Uh, from down under he's the 33, 33
through fountain.
He says decentralization thrives on diversity and innovation.

(01:26:45):
No idea is better than another until it's
proven supporting new ideas and multiple systems ensures
we grow stronger together.
Instead of dismissing, let's build, collaborate and foster
a culture where creativity leads the way rocket.
Yep.
I agree.
So Brown of London, 1948, he says, I'm
still here.
We know.
And we love you for being there.
We love you.

(01:27:06):
Uh, see us on Linux.
He's a central to Richard's one, one, one,
one.
He's through fountain.
He says, uh, rename podcasting 2.0 to
podcasting plus plus.
Okay.
It's the object oriented version.
Podcasting, sharp, sharp, Stephen B that's brother.
There you go.

(01:27:27):
Through the curio caster.
It's 2020, 2024 sets.
I like it.
I get that one.
He says, happy new year's December 31st, 2024.
The first booster gram using the split box
was sent from curio Kester to podcasting to
marking his territory.
Very nice.
Nice.
Nicely done.
Uh, Nicholas B 58, 10,000 sets through

(01:27:49):
fountain.
Thank you.
This episode made me so bullish for the
future of podcasting 2.0. Thank you guys
for your work.
Also, I'm planning to do my first live
podcast.
What should I know before doing it?
Cheers from Switzerland.
As the professional in the room, what should
he know?
Remember to set your live item properly and

(01:28:10):
send it out.
And also hit record.
Yeah.
And hit record.
Yes.
That's always a good hit record.
There you go.
There's your advice.
Uh, let's see.
Am I in the right?
I got to make sure.
Yes.
Yes.
Delimiter, comic strip blogger, 15,510 sets through
fountain.
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.

(01:28:32):
Today, I'd like to recommend a podcast called
Satoshi's plebs.
They can be found also at URL Satoshi's
dash plebs.com.
This podcast covers Bitcoin topics like Bitcoin investment
timing.
They address the common concern.
Am I too late to invest in Bitcoin?
Dollar cost averaging a strategy for mitigating market

(01:28:54):
volatility and making consistent investments over time.
And it also covers Bitcoin's future outlook.
Yo, CSB.
Yo, CSB.
Thank you so much.
That was a straight CSB read.
He's very professional.
Very extremely.
Monthlies.
We got Randall Black, $5.

(01:29:15):
Thank you, Randall.
Podpage, that's Brendan and the girls and boys
at Podpage, $25.
Martin Graham, $1.
That's Martin.
Let's see.
Kevin Bay, $5.
Cameron Rose, $25.
Thank you, Cameron.
Chad Pharoah, Chad F, $20.22. Brother Dreb
Scott, $15.
Thank you, Dreb.

(01:29:35):
Chris Bernardik, $5.
Michael Kimmerer, $5.33. Jordan Dunville, $10.
Cohen Glotzbach, $5.
Christopher Reimer, $10.
James Sullivan, $10.
Charles Currant, $5.
Jorge Hernandez, $5.
Michael Goggins, Michael Goggin, $5.
Satan's Lawyer, $5.

(01:29:57):
Pedro Goncalves, $5.
Osteen Barra, $5.
Timothy Voice, $10.
Michael Hall, $5.50. Gene Liverman, $5.
New Media Productions.
That's Rob and Todd, $30.
And Jeremy Gerds, $5.
Beautiful.
Thank you all so much for sending us
value back for the work that we do,

(01:30:18):
not just in the boardroom, but really to
keep the engine room running on Podcast Index
and all things associated with it.
We're highly appreciative of that.
Go to podcastindex.org down below.
You'll see a red Donate button.
You can click that to send your fiat
fund coupons through PayPal.
Or, of course, we accept any boost or
boostagram by boostinging the Podcasting 2.0 podcast.

(01:30:39):
Yee-haw.
Osteen Barra has got a show right after
this one.
Yes.
Yeah, somehow his stuff always pops up in
the Podcasting 2.0 boardroom.
So you can just stay in the boardroom
and all of his tracks and everything shows
up there.
So it's beautiful.
Tell me how bad it was during the
show.
How bad was the bumping?

(01:31:00):
Oh, maybe three times.
Not bad at all.
Okay, I was riding the mute button.
No, it sounds good.
And I'm very happy to have you on
a Curry 1.
Curry 1.
I love it.
I love it.
I'm going to dip it in gold.
Curry 1.
It's hot.
Yeah, it's hot, baby.
It's hot.

(01:31:20):
All right, boardroom.
Thank you very much for joining us today.
We will be back next week on Friday
with another board meeting of Podcasting 2.0.
Dave, have yourself a great weekend, brother.
You too, man.
See everybody.

(01:31:46):
You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0.
Visit podcastindex.org for more information.
Go podcasting.
Cool.
I hope 2025 is everything you wanted it
to be.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Cold Case Files: Miami

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 205: Podscape

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Cold Case Files: Miami

24/7 News: The Latest

Crime Junkie

All Episodes

Episode 205: Podscape

Cold Case Files: Miami