Episode 210: Mothership Node

Podcasting 2.0 February 14th 2025 Episode 210: "Mothership Node"

Adam & Dave discuss distributed indexing through philosophy

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Chaptervising

Bluecry

Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

Kademlia, Explained - YouTube

Fountain update

Payments

Podsage Words of Wisdom

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Podcasting 2.0 for February 14th, 2025, episode
210, Mothership Node.
Hey everybody, happy Valentine's Day.
It is time once again for Podcasting 2
.0. We are the future of podcasting.
Of course, we'll discuss what's going on right
now and we'll reminisce about what happened in

(00:21):
the past.
Yes, you are welcome in the boardroom where
we bring it all together.
And of course, we are the only boardroom
with bowls filled with only green M&Ms.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country.
And in Alabama, the man who grinds away
at code 18 hours a day.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

(00:44):
The podcasting index.social is, I'm spinning here.
You're spinning, you're spinning.
Yeah.
You got the spinning, is it beach ball
or you're on the Linux?
No, no, Mastodon Brave says page unresponsive.
Oh no.
Do you wanna wait or exit page?
Exit page.
I'm gonna exit page.
Exit page, always exit page.

(01:05):
It's your browser, man.
It's not the system, it's your browser.
No, it's the Mastodons.
You know, I love, what I get every
month, at least once, sometimes two times, I'll
get an email that says, why are you
blocking me?
I can't get your podcast.
Why are you blocking me?

(01:26):
And.
You have an extensive block list.
Yes, and then, and I say, okay, now
do you have any other podcasts that you're
having problems with?
Or first I'll say what app, what phone,
what machine.
And I got a podcast app.
Okay, all right, okay, that's good.
A podcast app, that's a good one.
Yeah, so this usually takes about five emails,

(01:49):
this process.
And then the next one, are there any
other pod, like yeah, yeah, yeah, that James
Cridland blocks me from podcast news too.
I'm like, okay, that's interesting.
IPFS gateway.
Well, no, no, I say, are you, guess
a good one.
I said, have you tried it on Wi
-Fi and on cellular?

(02:09):
Yeah, both doesn't work, that's my clue.
When I, and usually I'll say, have you
tried a different network?
No matter what I try, it doesn't work,
you're blocking me.
And then here comes the question.
Are you using a VPN?
Yes.
Let's try turning it off.
Hey, that worked.

(02:32):
We'll see, this is, but I'm sure that
there's, you're leaving out the times where you
say, do you use a VPN?
And they say, yeah, I already tried that.
Yeah, you get that one too.
Yeah, because this is the, everybody that I've
ever hired for help desk in tech support,
I tell them on day one, the very

(02:56):
first rule of help desk, users lie.
Yeah, they lie to you.
They lie.
They do.
If you ask them if they rebooted, they
will tell you yes, but they did not.
It's so true.
And you can verify that.
You can verify that.
Yeah, you can see it right there in
your console.
Yeah, oh yeah.
I'm like, hey, go ahead and reboot.

(03:17):
And they're like, oh, I already did that.
And I'm like, oh, that's interesting because your
uptime here says 12 days.
That's a pretty neat magic trick you did.
It was like, well, I don't know, I
hit reboot.
I thought I did.
Yeah, sorry, man.
Yeah, and the problem is people say, well,

(03:38):
everything else works on a VPN.
I said, well, you might have, because a
lot of these VPNs, like I have the
Proton.
I use the Proton VPN.
In the US, I think it defaults to
a Tor exit node.
Oh, that's blocked all over the place.
Yeah, I mean, Tor nodes get blocked everywhere.

(03:58):
So like, no.
So they have, so that VPN system has,
they have regular traffic, regular VPN traffic coming
out of the same IP as a Tor
node?
No, no, no, I think, no, I don't
think so.
I think the majority, the default finds a

(04:19):
node that has Tor, I think.
It may have been me just resetting it
to something else.
I don't know.
I'm, hey, I'm a user, I lie.
I'm not lying to you, Dave.
I like the one, this is, the Proton
VPN has a thing that's like, go into
hyper, you know, cloak mode, and then, because
it also gives you a map of what

(04:40):
node you're connecting to.
It's a big map and you see it.
And so then you're routed through Switzerland, through
their systems, out to another node.
And I'm always like, I don't know if
that's a good, I don't feel good about
that.
I mean, I trust you guys, but do
I really?
Like, now I'm routing everything through you, through
your super sophisticated node.

(05:02):
I'm like, eh, I don't know.
I have distrust of VPNs in general.
That, yeah, you know, the whole thing, honestly,
is just, the whole thing's a mess.
The geolocation.
Oh, laughable, laughable.

(05:22):
It mostly, you know, it's reliable for sort
of like run-of-the-mill things.
But, you know, like if you just want
to say, okay, well, you know, you're in
this general area, it's going to work, you
know, 75% of the time.
You know, of course, the VPNs are going

(05:42):
to mess it up and all that.
I mean, that's just normal.
But for the average user on the average
day in an average city, it's probably going
to work most of the time.
But the things that you run into are
like, with, here's the thing that happens in
the security industry and in cybersecurity, you'll always

(06:04):
hear all these statistics like- Also known
as DevSec.
Yes, DevSec.
DevSec, yes.
In the world of DevSec, what you'll hear
all the time is, here's a new, here's
this new critical vulnerability, you know, CVE 2025
dash blah, blah, blah.
And it'll say, and they'll say, according to

(06:25):
our scans, there's 350,000 versions of this
software listening on the internet that are vulnerable
to this exploit.
They never mention that most of these scans
are using places like, you know, Shodan and
these vulnerability scanners.

(06:46):
Many people block those scanners IP addresses.
And also there's tons of honeypots out there
that fake being those things just to attract
the traffic so they can analyze the exploits.
Those scans are completely useless.
They're about as useful as the IAB download
metrics.
They're roughly equivalent to find out how many

(07:07):
listeners you have.
But are they certified 2.2?
I mean, that's the question.
So my daughter is in this reality show
in Europe, which is hilarious.
I mean, it's already been recorded.
She's done that before, right?
Yeah, but this is a new one.
It's called Hot Chicks in the Jungle.
No, it's not.
Yes, it is.
Or Real Chicks.

(07:28):
Is it got a Dutch title?
Echte Meiden in the Jungle.
So it actually translates to Real Chicks in
the Jungle.
And it's all, you know, young to young.
Christina is 34.
So, you know, but she looks super young.
What a skin scam.
It's a total skin scam.

(07:48):
It's fantastic.
And so they went to Columbia and they're
literally in the jungle and there's two teams.
And, you know, it's a whole typical thing.
Like they're two camps.
And so the whole, while you have to
do all these trials and exercises and competitions,
you're either in the luxury camp, which is,
you know, you got nice, you know, it's

(08:10):
a camp, but it's luxury.
You got, you know, you got table and
there's a chef and you've got nice mosquito
netting.
Or if you're the losing team at the
moment, then you're in the horrible camp.
That's like naked and afraid or whatever.
Pretty primitive camp.
You're in a hammock and they just give
you some rice.
You have to cook it yourself and you

(08:30):
got headlamps on.
And so I wanted to watch it.
And she said, well, cause it's on Videoland,
which is a Dutch streaming service.
And so she gave me her username and
password to log in.
And of course I didn't try anything until
I set up a VPN.
And no matter what I tried, Videoland would

(08:52):
pop back.
I'm sorry, this program is not available from
your location.
So either they knew all of the VPNs
already, which is possible, you know, for password
sharing, which is exactly what we were doing.
Or somehow it still knew that I, and
I'm thinking, does my browser send a location
bit or something?

(09:14):
No, I could not get it done.
That's what, what browser were you using?
Brave.
I wonder if, I wonder if there's some
sort of DRM thing that it, that Brave.
Yeah, it might've been, yeah.
But still it specifically said location.

(09:35):
So I was like, I'll maybe I'll try
it with Edge, see if that works.
I don't know why they care.
That's the thing that's always confused me is
why, if you, if you're blocked outside of
the US, so if you're geo blocking somebody
and you're in the net, if you're a
streaming service in the Netherlands and somebody outside

(09:56):
the Netherlands, they're not, I mean, you couldn't
go buy a subscription to that, right?
I mean, you can't, you can't buy the
subscription anyway.
So why does it matter if you're coming
in over a VPN?
If I could buy a subscription, I would
have.
I'm the guy that pays for everything.
I don't steal any content.
Yeah, then we'd get more money.

(10:16):
I just don't, this has never made sense.
It's lame.
It's lame.
This has never made sense.
So I'm getting all kinds of calls today.
I got Suzanne Santo calling me this morning.
About Spotify video?
No.
She said, oh my God, you talked about
the Antones concert on Joe Rogan.
Oh, it's so awesome.
Thank you so much.

(10:38):
Yeah, good, good, good show on Rogan.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Three hours of Rogan has got to be
exhausting.
Well, it's been an exhausting week because, well,
Monday was, see, Monday I did a podcast
with Jimmy and then Tuesday, I had to
get my hair cut and I've been, I've

(10:58):
had the same hair person for 15 years.
I'm loyal to her, but she's in Austin.
So I went to Austin, drove back, you
know, total drive time is three and a
half, almost four hours.
Yeah, three and a half hours.
Is it an hour and a half to
Austin for you?
Yeah, it's 80 miles, 80 miles, which is
okay.
A car drives itself, man.
A car drives itself.

(11:20):
And then went to Austin again the next
day.
And then, you know, I was, yeah, I
was pretty wiped by the time I got
home.
I could just tell by the tone of
your text.
Yeah, oh yeah, and then Thursday straight, I
got up early, like at six, because I
hadn't really done enough prep for no agenda.
So I had to get up early and

(11:41):
I'm prepping.
So, I mean, boo-hoo, oh, what a
life.
Boo-hoo, I'm a podcaster, it's so hard.
It's so horrible.
So I also haven't kept up with enough
of what's going on.
I was able to listen to most of
Power, which is good.
But the big thing is Fountain now doing
LN URL payments.

(12:01):
Yeah, yeah, I saw that.
That's, so you've tested it.
I saw you doing some testing.
Yes, and so there's a couple of apps
doing it.
Podcast Guru does it.
And there's another one floating out there.
It's a little confusing because I'm also getting
payments from some Noster experiments, Stephen B still
had up.

(12:23):
But with Fountain, what I kind of like
is I get the boost message or a
truncated version of the boost message and a
URL.
And you hit the URL and it goes
to a webpage, a fountain.fm webpage, which
shows me what I would see in the
screen on the app.

(12:44):
And you can actually open it in the
app from that screen if you want.
So you can immediately kind of not just
see my boost message, but if there was
any other boost message there, is an interesting
way of doing it.
And I don't have to go to Noster,
which I'm just happy about.
I have no problem with Noster, but I
just want to go to a webpage and
just see it.

(13:05):
And then I think Podcast Guru is sending
as much of the boost message as possible.
Let me see what I have here.
I have the, let me just open it
up for a second.
Now, of course, I'm receiving all of this
on Strike and I'm also getting streaming payments

(13:26):
on Strike, which is not necessarily the thing
you want because there's no...
So, okay, I'm getting pay Adam Curry.
I'm getting OneSat, but I don't know where
that's coming from.
And then I got one, I see ComicStreetBlogger
and it looks like, I don't know.
I thought he boosted on Fountain, but this
looks like it's coming.

(13:47):
There's no link like I saw from...
It looks like a Fountain screenshot.
Yeah, yeah.
Let me see.
What I get from Podcast Guru is, you
know, so you have to scroll through all
these OneSat streaming payments, which I can't limit
in my view, of course.

(14:08):
Still exciting.
Jeez, that's a lot of streaming sats I've
received.
Holy crap.
Can I sort this?
No, I can't sort this.
You're gonna get a 1099B.
Yeah.
Oh, here it is.
It's Fountain, yeah, he's sending from Fountain.
Yeah, testing the new stuff and then it
has a link to Fountain.
So that's what I think...

(14:32):
Yeah, I sent that to myself.
Let me just open that up in the
browser and there it goes to a Fountain
page with the boost, yeah, okay.
So I'm not sure.
Oh, and yeah, he did send it because
it's right above my boost on that page

(14:52):
is his, but I didn't get a link
from his boost.
Maybe he's using an older version of the
app.
Possibly.
Maybe, he responded and said he's, yes, he
did boost from Fountain app.
I'll ask him.
Well, regardless, it's working and it's cool.
Now, of course, none of this has the
TLV record payment information.

(15:14):
So it's, you know, these payments are not
flowing into, I mean, I obviously have a
1% split into Helipad.
So I get everything there, but it's working.
That's the main point.
We need to refine and maybe we can
come to some agreement on stuff.
There we go.
Thank you, Sam.

(15:36):
Castamatic and Podcast Guru are both testing LNURLP
says.
True Fans has supported it from day one.
Of course, you would expect nothing less than
to say that.
True Fans supported as a test for Fountain
Radio.
We are waiting for Fountain to implement any
changes before we roll it out for all
podcasts on True Fans.
Yeah, okay, cool.
So.
Right, the TLV stuff is just the, you

(15:57):
know, that's the last hurdle.
Yeah.
Of getting that, getting us over the hump.
And we've got, you know, I'm cool with
just, you know, just letting people try different
stuff.
I mean.
Me too, me too.
That's why I say, it's like, whatever happens,
happens.
I mean, the payments are coming in.

(16:18):
That's the number one thing.
Right.
I really love that.
And I did talk about Value for Value
on Rogan.
I got some in there.
I heard that, yeah.
I heard a little bit of that.
Yeah, it was a good appearance.
I mean, you know, I think it's nice
when you all are on there because it's

(16:38):
like you just picked up where you left
off last time.
Kind of, yeah.
Hey, with my team.
Yeah, what else?
Yeah, right.
And you just like pick up and just
keep going.
Like it's the same conversation with like a
four month pause.
Yeah.
But I tell you man, Rogan, he's always,
he's at the club Monday and then Tuesday
he does a set, Tuesdays.

(16:59):
And then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, I think he
does even my, I think he does four
episodes, four interviews a week.
And then he still has his UFC stuff
and man, that guy's working.
Yeah.
That's a lot.
Yeah, and I'm tired after talking to him
for three hours.
I'm like, huh.
What kind of prep do you, what kind
of prep do you think he does?

(17:20):
Do you think he goes in cold on
interviews?
No, I know that if, he listens to
a lot of books while he's working out
because I've asked him about this specifically.
He may have listened to some of No
Agenda beforehand, but probably not because he knows
me.
Recurring guests, I'm pretty sure, he knows what

(17:41):
they're about, but new guests, yeah.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure if someone has a
book or has published something, he'll read it
or he'll listen to it on a audio
book.
And if you notice, Joe talks a lot
too.
Yeah, yeah.
So it's like- His interview, I don't
really listen to him.
Like, he's just not on my radar.

(18:02):
It's just, I don't really have time for
a three-hour show in addition to all
the other stuff I'm listening to.
No, it's very hard.
Yeah, but like, so I never really listen
to him unless you're on or there's somebody
who really piques my interest.
What I found fascinating is I can almost

(18:24):
tell, no, I can always tell.
Let me see if I can position this
right.
If someone just sends me an email about
an appearance on Rogan, I know if they
listened to it or if they watched it.
It's really, if you go to like YouTube

(18:45):
and you see the comments, the people who
are like, I don't know, you're full of
crap.
They're not listening.
The video detracts so much from what is
actually being said.
Now, of course, people always want to hear
what they want to hear, but the people

(19:07):
who are listening to it and say, I
heard instead of I saw, have a much
better cognition of what was actually said.
It's astounding.
So how do you quantify that?
I mean, because people- Can you or
is it just a feeling you have?
It's really by what they say, you know?

(19:29):
And so they'll say, okay, so I talk,
Joe starts and says, so what do you
think of shit coins?
And you know, and so I roll into
why I think they're no good.
And actually for the first time, I think
ever, and people who are watching didn't pick
this up.
People who are listening did.
Joe said, no, I believe in Bitcoin.
I'm all in on Bitcoin.

(19:49):
And then I went on to talk about
what I think is happening with stable coins
and where the US dollar is in this
Triffin dilemma and all these other things.
What are we drinking, Dave?
Oh, gee whiz, man.
You got ears like a freaking, you know,
whatever here's good dog, LaCroix Pure.

(20:12):
I'm back to the old stand up.
Oh, LaCroix, LaCroix Pure, nice.
And, you know, you can hear, so when
I, and then you'll see the comments like,
I can't believe Curry is talking about shit
coins that they're good and stable coin is
the way.
I said exactly the opposite, exactly the opposite.

(20:33):
But people who are listening to, and I
noticed that myself too, is when I'm listening,
I mean, it's just, you know, you may
make money on Spotify if you can catch
the wave with video, but man, I really
want people to hear what I have to
say and not, you know, and not be
distracted by watching, particularly me.

(20:56):
I don't think it's interesting to watch me,
so.
I find it hard to, I find it
hard to listen and absorb.
Like you have to, you have to be
in a mindset, like, how do I say
this?

(21:17):
You have like, so I've been reading this,
this audio book or I say reading, whatever,
listening.
Been listening to a new, hey, what are
you drinking?
Ah, show beer, blue, Pabst Blue Ribbon.
PBR, baby.
PBR, all the way.
Schlitz, yeah.
Schlitz.
I think, like, so I started this new

(21:40):
book.
It's called A Secular Age by this Canadian
philosopher named Charles Taylor.
Now, if you can handle this sort of
work, if you can handle this sort of
work, I highly, highly recommend this book.

(22:02):
You know, I mean, some people are just
not gonna be interested in this type of
work.
I mean, like, I would say that probably
the greatest three books I've ever read on
just sociology with, so I like the, I
like this sort of like convergence of sociology

(22:25):
and philosophy.
I don't, like, I find sort of exploratory
philosophy or what you might call like.
You are a fascinating man, Dave Jones.
Well, no, I find like what, in math,
you might call it like theoretical physics, you
know, or something like that.

(22:45):
Well, there's a version of that in philosophy
where, and you might want to call it
like research philosophy or exploratory philosophy where it's
almost like a peer-reviewed study that nobody
really is ever gonna care about.
I find that stuff just horrible.
Like, I'm not interested in it in any
way.
I just don't, and I'm not even really

(23:07):
that keen on the history of philosophy.
I have trouble just remembering a bunch of
like, well, this guy said this, and this,
you know, this person said this, and this,
well, like, because it's all just a bunch
of memorization that doesn't really apply to anything.
But I find the convergence of philosophy and
sociology to be fascinating.

(23:30):
And the three, like the three, my three
greatest hits on that is Jacques Ellul's Technological
Society.
That's a good one.
That's one I've read.
Jacques Ellul's Propaganda.
That one I've also read.
Yes.
And A Secular Age by Charles Taylor.

(23:52):
No, I pass, hard pass on that.
Now, this is probably 900 pages.
It's a big one.
And it's considered his sort of master, you
know, work.
But I found with, this book is just

(24:13):
like, it's just like trying to read Technological
Society.
You have to pay attention to this book.
If you don't, 15 minutes will pass and
you'll remember nothing that you just heard.
And so like, you have to like, you
have to get, you have to consciously bring

(24:35):
your attention to the words that are being
said to you.
And even then, even with no distraction and
a conscious will to listen to the words.
It's hard.
It's still, you have to back it up
sometimes.
You know, and you may have to listen

(24:55):
to the same section three or four times
in a row to really understand what's being
said if you care to understand what's being
said.
And that's with no visual distraction whatsoever.
Like, I can't imagine trying to get meaningful
content from a video.
Like, I just, I don't know how you

(25:16):
can do it.
It's not there, it's not there.
You're gonna, you're just, your brain.
When you're watching a video, your brain just
doesn't, that's not what it's for, you know?
Well, now imagine what TikTok is doing to
people's brains.
Oh, oh, I don't even wanna know.
Just like overstimulate, overstimulate, overstimulate, overstimulate, and who

(25:38):
knows what's going through.
Well, that, you know, this is a thing
that, if you boiled down Jacques Ellul's propaganda,
if you boiled it down into a few
different just bullet points, one of the main
points that he makes very early in the

(25:59):
work is this.
Propaganda is not about convincing people of things.
Propaganda, effective propaganda does not care about convincing
the other side of your position.
Propaganda is about getting people to act.

(26:23):
It's about provoking action.
How, and he goes so far as to
say- Like smashing that like button?
Yes, he goes that far.
He says, if you are trying to do
propaganda and you are in the process coming

(26:43):
up with arguments, you've already failed at propaganda.
You're not doing it right.
Absolutely, absolutely.
And that's, to me, that's what all those
video platforms, TikTok and Instagram reels and all
that, it's just action, action, action, action.
Do a thing, do a thing.
And the other thing, and so there's downsides,

(27:05):
I've always been against listening at one and
a half or two times speed.
I'm saying that it probably will ruin your
real life relationships because you're listening to podcasts
fast, oh, they're talking about this, blah, blah,
blah, and then you come home and your
wife and kids are like, hurry up, spit
it out, kid, what do you want to

(27:25):
say to me?
Yeah, they're boring.
They can barely be boring.
I got this cool note from this dude
the other day.
And he said, I wanted to tell you,
I had circular hair loss in my neck.
I had a huge hole in my beard
and everyone was telling me it had to
be stress.
Then I remembered that episode where he said
that listening at 1.5X is really bad.

(27:46):
I was doing exactly that because some douche
on another podcast suggested I do it.
And as I'm notoriously dozens of episodes behind,
I thought I could catch up.
So I stopped speed listening, went back to
normal.
After a couple of months, my beard grew
back.
No way.
Another life saved or created, yes.

(28:09):
You fixed the hole in his neck.
I did, I did.
It's awesome.
James listens to our show at like 12X
or something.
James has no body hair.
He has no body hair.
He's like a Mexican hairless.
Yes.
Yeah, just saying, just saying, people.

(28:31):
Well, besides James Propecia, we can talk about
- Allopecia, it's Allopecia.
What is Propecia?
I don't know.
You don't want either one.
I know.
I got to find out if that's even
a Propecia.
No, Propecia is, isn't that skin rash, skin
irritation?
Propecia is a brand name for the generic

(28:52):
drug Finasteratide, which is a prescription oral taken
daily to slow down hair loss.
Okay, so it's the opposite of Allopecia.
Okay, I got you.
It's a drug.
You see, that's propaganda right there.
Propecia.
Problem, was it problem- Reaction solution.
Solution, yeah.
There you go.
But we got a, we got a, I'm

(29:15):
going to break from form here and read
a PayPal donation right now.
Wow, this is a format change.
We're breaking format.
We're calling an audible, everybody.
Yeah, and this is from Archie, S-U
-C-D in the chat room, in the
podcast index social.
Good guy.
He sends, he sent us 1701, a Star

(29:37):
Trek boost, and $17.01, and he says,
can you dive deeper into the vision for
a distributed podcast index, focusing on the high
level benefits, ignoring the technical implementation?
How will this improve the podcasting ecosystem and
what advantages does decentralization offer?
Can I give a high level answer before

(30:00):
you dive in?
My high level answer is, we want Dave
to go back to a normal life, not
have to deal with all this crap anymore.
Just make it work in the space.
Just make it work in the space.
That's the high level answer right there.
The high level is make it work in
the space.
Yeah, we've always wanted us to go away.
That's so funny, I want myself to go

(30:22):
away.
Yes, we'll know we're successful when we're no
longer needed.
Yeah, and okay, well, how much you got
on your list to talk about?
The only thing I have on my list
are chapter vising.
Chapter vising.
Yeah, I don't know if you heard the

(30:43):
new media show, and Todd has asked me
to go on the new media show, so
I need to go back on his show
to talk about audio instead of video.
I got to bring that show back to
its roots.
He has to bring it back from the
precipice.
So we were talking about firing off an
image in a chapter marker that could be

(31:05):
tracked for advertising, which I'm all for, by
the way.
Chapter vising.
Chapter vising.
Yeah, I'm calling it chapter vising.
What do you think?
Does that not sound right?
Chapter tizing.
It's advertising, so it'd be chapter tizing.
Chapter tizing?
I need to see, let me see.
Chapter tizing.
I'm not sure.

(31:28):
Propecia.
We'll just call it Propecia.
I think it's, particularly because it was, I
forget who it was, but it was someone
who's in the podcast industrial complex, like, this
is really cool.
And I'm all for it.
If we can get chapters and people using
chapters, and you can obviously anonymize the, excuse

(31:50):
me, the IP addresses.
A lot, I mean, it's really, it only
has to go to the podcaster, you know?
It's not like it's going to some grotesque
company per se, but it could.
And he was talking about it and, you
know, because I kind of like, oh, that's
a very cool idea, but, you know, you
really need all these apps to do it
and everyone has to jump in on it.

(32:11):
And Todd made a good point.
He said, you don't.
Advertising is always based on, or not always,
but it's often based on a sample.
So if you can get a sample size,
then, you know, of this many people who
use this particular podcast app that understands chapters,
you can make a case towards your advertiser

(32:32):
that, you know, that X amount of people
heard this ad.
And I just thought it was exciting.
I mean, not for me.
I like my chapters just for exactly what
we use them for.
I, you know, Dreb makes all of my
chapters.
It's great.
Who knows, Dreb could actually be firing off
the Nike ads.
I don't even know what he's doing sometimes,

(32:54):
but.
This sounds like, this is help, this is
help seeking behaviors.
What's this about the advertising industry?
But it's, it's interesting.
You know, you can have a call to
action, like, you know, go to the, click
on the image, you know, click on the
link in the chapter and get more information.

(33:17):
And I guess I'm just saying, adverts, Podcast
Industrial Complex.
I mean, it's just a shout out, hold
on a second.
Attention, attention.
Podcast Industrial Complex, here comes a message.
Incoming message for you.
Boop.
And the message, and the message is, get
going already.

(33:39):
Evangelize this stuff.
Show people how it could work.
It would, it would solve a huge problem
in your industry.
And we don't have to use it.
You know, I mean, images are already trackable.
It's not like anyone has a problem with
it.
Anonymize it, do whatever you have to do.
But get on, get on already.

(33:59):
Get going with it.
Get the hosts involved, do something.
End of message.
Well, the, you know, I don't know.
Chad, that's not true.
Not everybody hates Boost in their chapters.
It's not true.
I don't hate it.
I don't hate, I've never hated it.
I believe they shouldn't be in the table

(34:21):
of contents, which we changed.
We changed it so Boost don't show up
in the table of contents, but it's not
true like all people hated it.
Don't make blanket statements like that, Chad F.
Um, yeah, I'm ambivalent.
I really don't.
I just want to help everybody.
I want to help everybody.

(34:41):
You know, and they seem to have all
kinds of problems.
If, if somebody was tracking me that way
with, with ads, I mean, I wouldn't really
care.
No, I don't.
I don't think it would bother me.
I mean, I wouldn't like it or dislike
it.
I think I'm just, I just don't care.
I really, I really.
No, but hey, it's podcasting 2.0, and

(35:04):
if we can solve a problem for the
podcast industrial complex, I'm happy to do it.
But they have to, they have to step
up.
You know, I'm not going to evangelize for
your fix.
You've got to step up and you've got
to do it.
That's kind of what I'm saying.
It's like, it's here if you want to
do it.
I'm a value for value guy.
And boy, am I happy.
I'm a value for value guy.

(35:25):
Oh boy, am I happy.
I love being a value for value guy.
Well, so the, the, the index thing, so
that's kind of where my head's been at
is the decentralization thing.
Good, let's go.
And it's powering a lot of other stuff
that's going on in sort of like in
my head.

(35:50):
So I guess to answer, to answer Archie's
question, it's, I mean, we're going to have
to talk tech a little bit.
I mean, yeah, yeah.
The overall, let me, let me slip into
something more comfortable then.
Oh, please.
You know, what's really hot open source, send

(36:13):
your pull request now.
All right.
I forgot about that one.
You pulled that one out of the box.
The pod father never forgets.
Yes, it did not.
I was thinking math and then she went
open source.
No, no, open source, baby, yeah.
Yes, let's, where do I, how do I,

(36:35):
how do I start high here?
Begin the begin.
So, okay.
A secular age was this, this book.
Um, the, the concept behind this book and
I'm, I'm, look, believe me, I'm going to,

(36:55):
I'm going to bring this around.
The concept behind this book is, is very
interesting.
How did we get from the year 1500
where the West, the Western mind assumed spirituality,

(37:16):
assumed that was just, that was just the
default position.
The world is a spiritual place.
We don't necessarily live in a universe.
We live in a cosmos.
Um, to the year 2000, where, you know,
at worst spirituality was just one choice amongst
many different options at the buffet.
This is a deep question.

(37:36):
You know, and it's important to know he's,
he's not sort of visualizing this dichotomy where
there's a, where there's like this medieval mind
that believed in God and a modern mind
that's atheist.
It's not about that.
It's much more subtle.
Um, it's a whole, it's a lot more
subtle.
The, the real question is how, how do

(38:01):
we get sort of, uh, this, I'm going
to use, I'm going to use a big,
I'm going to use a big phrase.
How do we get this sort of subtractive
poesis where, where you have a world in
which, like where you have a, I'm going
to, I'm having trouble putting this into words.

(38:21):
How do you have this poesis where a
world in which power and will can exist
in things that are not human?
Okay.
For instance, relics.
Okay.
Uh, a holy relic might have power in
and of itself.

(38:41):
Okay.
This power exists independently of, of, of, of
humanity or what, or something that, you know,
you, you, you believe that these things can
have an effect on you and the universe
around you and, and demons and ceremonial actions,
such as, uh, communion or extreme unction.

(39:02):
These, these things that are like, uh, you,
you can manifest power through these, through these
sort of ritualistic endeavors.
Okay.
This is, this is a world where this
is a universe that you live in where
will and power and action can come from
else can come, can exist independent of humans.

(39:25):
How do we get from there to the
modern frame of mind where those things are
just, they just don't cross our mind very
often.
Like you can go further and say, like,
you can go even further and say, we're
like, we're actually now entertained by those things.
Like we go in to like scary movies
about demons and stuff.

(39:46):
Well, how about this?
I'm just going to interject a little bit
from time to time.
First of all, um, what was that?
My brain, that was my brain popping.
Um, when our eyes are accustomed to seeing
magic all day long, when our ears are

(40:06):
accustomed to hearing magic all day long, then
you cease to see the magic of the
universe.
So if you're, if television is magic, interesting,
it's magic.
I mean, I, uh, I, I started right
now on YouTube TV, there's two rabbits in
the snow.
It's like, they're there, they're in my house.
You know, we don't, we take that for

(40:28):
granted now, but I would say that has
a lot to do with it.
That's, that's pretty, yeah, that's pretty interesting.
That's, that's sort of like, yeah.
Okay.
Well, he, he frames it in two different,
two different selves is what he calls it.
He has, he has what he calls the,

(40:50):
um, the porous self and the buffered self.
And the way the porous self is, is
the ego that lives in a cosmos in
a universe where things happen to you.
Okay.
The spiritual, the spiritual things are, are, they

(41:10):
exist independent of you and they can affect
you.
They can, they can interfere with your life
in some way versus the buffered self, the
modern self where we feel like we are
the cause of all actions.
We're the initiators.
We're the prime mover of the things that
happen in this world.
There's no thing that can just enter into

(41:31):
us without our, you know, without our, without
some other human acting.
And so he, he said, he said, he
defines it.
He says the buffered self is, uh, the
agent who no longer fears demons, spirits, spirits
or magic forces.
Okay.
So the reason I, cause I'm re the
reason I'm bringing this up is that this

(41:52):
is a very, I the more subtle a
thing is, the harder it is to sort
of keep in your head.
And, and I think we, we have to
look at the endeavor that we are doing
with the podcast index in the same way.
Okay.
You can compare this to an, um, an

(42:14):
easier to understand example would be the 17th
amendment to the U S constitution.
Um, the 17th amendment changed the way senators
are elected to Congress used to the states,
the state legislature of each state elected to

(42:37):
the two senators that went to the, to
the Senate.
Then in 1912 or 13, 12, 1913.
Yeah.
Okay.
1912.
Well, it was, it was, um, I'm sorry.
It was, it was accepted into the constitution
on, in 1913.
Okay.
All right.

(42:57):
1913, the 17th amendment changed that to where
now senators are about popular vote.
So now the people of people, direct direct
vote.
Now this is the 17th amendment is completely,
uh, lost to most people, to the American

(43:17):
mind.
Nobody even, nobody ever thinks about this amendment.
It seems completely innocuous.
It's like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic,
but it was a critical change.
The constitution was set up in such a
way that no, um, no, no entity would

(43:40):
ever be trusted over and above another entity.
So they were all placed in direct opposition
to one another, even the people.
So the people, you know, you have the
president versus Congress, the Congress versus the judiciary,
the federal versus the states, the state versus
its own people, the people versus the people

(44:03):
by virtue of the house of representatives versus
the state by virtue of the Senate.
So you had every, the whole idea of
the American system is you have to have
opposing centers of power at every single step
because you can't ever trust any one with
too much power.
The mob, the people don't get special privilege.

(44:24):
They can do, they can do bad stuff
too.
You know, if, if somehow you got 51
% of people in your state to vote
that, you know, child abuse was okay.
Well, that's not cool either.
So, you know, the, the, the people don't
get this special power that, that everybody that
overrides every single other thing.
Can I just stop you for one second?

(44:46):
Yeah, sure.
This is how genius and well thought out
computer code is written from this type of
thinking.
Eat my shorts, AI.
You just scoop up GitHub and just spit

(45:07):
that crap out.
That's right.
All right.
Sorry.
No, that's all right.
Yeah.
But like, it seems so this, this idea,
so this is again, another situation where the
modern mind doesn't understand what the mind of
1830 had for an American, like we just,

(45:30):
we don't get it.
It's, it's lost.
It's also not taught and there's a lot
of issues there, but yeah.
We don't, we don't think like the idea
that the state itself would have a voice
that's different from the people.
That's just a completely foreign concept.

(45:51):
And so going through all that, you know,
we, we don't even, we look at the
17th amendment and we don't even understand why
it was any other way to begin with.
Right.
Is what I'm trying to say.
So it's what, what Charles Taylor's trying to
say in his book is that every social

(46:12):
movement has within itself the seeds of its
own reversal.
And that's, that's true of it.
That's true of everything.
And he goes step by step and shows
how the, the Protestant reformation is, is the
single biggest reason why we have the modern

(46:33):
non-spiritual mind today.
It was a complete, it was a complete
reversal of what they thought was going to
be, was going to happen.
And you can go further and say that
it's really only that thing which can produce
its opposite.

(46:55):
In some unique way, the Protestant reformation created
the non-religiousness of the modern day.
And so, and only in a, in a
way that only it could.
And it's important that we, I think we
have to humble ourselves on when we get
into technology, technological solutions, especially with standards bodies,

(47:20):
with trying to propose Amen, brother.
Amen.
You, you're preaching now.
Yeah.
I mean, you, we, because if we're not
careful, we will do the exact opposite of
what we intend.
Yes.
We will think we're solving problems and what
we're doing is creating A bigger problem down

(47:42):
the line.
Right.
We are, we're, we're seeding the destruction of
the thing we're trying to fix.
And so this bring, so when it comes
to the decentralization question, you know, number one,
podcast directories are really important.

(48:03):
Um, like you, you can't, I didn't, I
kind of didn't realize how important they were
until we started building Godcaster.
Yeah.
And podcast directories, whether it's Apple or us,
they serve a critical role in the podcast
ecosystem.

(48:25):
And you just like, if you don't exist
in a podcast directory, you're just not going
to be found.
Right.
Um, and you know, well before, and before
you say, well, Google, you know, you can
just Google for it.
Well, that just moves the problem up one
layer.
I mean, you're not really solving, you know,
because Google's the same thing.
There's always been this uncomfortable tension between decentralization

(48:49):
and findability.
That's why phone books existed, you know, because
they, they fixed this problem of nobody could
figure out anybody's phone number because it's a
secret number.
Then only, you know, and in this, in
a URL, it's just a secret number that
only, you know, and you, you gotta be
able to tell everybody what it is, you
know, in the cell phone age, people traded

(49:10):
numbers offline.
Well, even worse, even worse.
I would say that humanity has gone from
understanding, and I'll just use humanity, has gone
from understanding your RSS feed is your, your
home to, well, I just better upload everywhere,
which is kind of worse.

(49:32):
It is worse.
Yeah, it is worse because now you have
multiple points of centralization.
You have this, like, you know, sort of
like multiple claims of authority.
Yeah.
Claim of authority.
That's right.
And so what's interesting is in the cell
phone era, we don't really have phone books

(49:53):
anymore, and people just trade their numbers amongst
themselves.
Like, I want you to know how to
get in touch with me, so I give
you my number.
And we've sort of gotten away.
There's really no central place to go and
find anybody's phone number anymore.
Well, unfortunately, unfortunately, our information has been sucked

(50:15):
out of our phone so often that you
can find my phone number, my previous phone
number, my current address, everything except my social
security number.
And even that's probably readily available anywhere online.
But that's a detail.
You know, you got to those are like
doc sites that you got to pay for
and stuff.
I mean, most people don't use those.

(50:36):
I mean, that's you got to be kind
of creepy to even use that.
You have no idea how many pieces of
U.S. postal mail I get people saying,
hope you don't mind.
I just looked up your address.
Did you ever used to get spammed in
the physical mail from your ICANN registrations?

(50:56):
Back in the day.
I mean, now I get spam from some
other outfit that says, you know, this is
about this.
This domain is about to let me see
if I can find who it is.
This domain is about to expire.
ICANN ERRP.
It's from no reply at expiration warning dot

(51:19):
net.
And it says, oh, according to our records,
you know, is about.
And then there's a link.
And then, oh, you can just transfer to
our service.
It'll be much better.
Nice.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, yes.
But I used to get paper from ICANN.
I did.
Sure.
That Ben Rose is saying that's not true.
I'm in hundreds of scammers databases.

(51:39):
I'm not saying that you don't exist in
a database.
What I'm saying is we all used to
get the phone book and we could look
up each other's numbers.
Like that's not a thing anymore.
If I want to go find Ben Rose's
number, I'm either going to go to a
doxing site and pay 20 bucks and try
to figure it out.

(52:00):
Right.
Or I'm just not going to get it.
Like, that's just that's what I'm saying is
that it's not like Google.
There's no phone book.
There's no phone book.
And so this is sort of where we're
at with the with the podcast directories.
I feel that we we can take we
we can decentralize in a way.

(52:24):
Like cell phones have where everything becomes diffuse.
And the idea that we're working with and
and I say we because I'm I'm bouncing
this stuff off of off of Alex a
lot because he's kind of we've we've talked

(52:45):
about so much Alex and I've talked about
so much sort of decentralization tech that we
can kind of like immediately know where each
other's going.
So it's it's a quick iteration step with
him.
So we've been experimenting with some, you know,
with Eero, which is what I talked about

(53:05):
a couple of weeks ago.
There's a let me throw this in the
boardroom.
There's a good YouTube video.
See, there's a good YouTube video.
Is this thing doing paste?

(53:30):
Yeah, there we go.
All right.
So there's a good YouTube video about Kadimlia.
Yeah, I'll put this in the show notes
too.
And so this is a distributed hash table.
I'm not going to get into distributed hash
table stuff because you can just watch the
video.
It's very easy to follow.
It's probably the best explanation of DHTs I've
ever seen.
And it makes it very easy to understand

(53:54):
how these things work.
The video uses like some, you know, well,
whatever we'll leave that be.
But it's a really good overview.
And that's sort of this is where I'm
thinking about going with the index.
And that's what I've already begun to build

(54:15):
some test stuff with.
Sexy.
So here's the initial sketch.
Is we build out a peer-to-peer
hole punching package.

(54:38):
So you would join a gossip, sort of
peer-to-peer gossip mesh.
Okay, you would download this software.
From us.
Hole punching what?
I'm just saying it's like a mesh, you
know, where it's peer-to-peer mesh, where
you're like, it does like NAT traversal to,

(55:00):
you know, so we can set up a
peer-to-peer link through a NAT.
Got it.
Got it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so the idea is you would download,
you would download this software from us and
run it.
And then it would wait for you to
plug in a ticket.

(55:21):
And so the ticket is this offline thing.
It's like, it's equivalent to me giving you
my phone number.
Now you can find the topic to join
and you begin to get the gossip messages.
Then, so there's going to be sort of
a master or main node, which would be

(55:43):
the index.
Okay.
Initially, and now just, you know, don't jump
too far ahead because this is all just
the initial work here.
Okay.
Initially, there would be a master node that's
holding the database.
Okay.
And this is, think of what I'm describing
here as sort of phase one.

(56:03):
There's a master node holding the database and
a node joins the gossip topic and says,
Hey, I'm a node and I'm ready to
do some work.
Give me some feeds.
The index grabs a slice of the database.

(56:25):
Let's say 10,000 feeds that it hands
10,000 feeds to this node that just
joined.
And the node begins to aggregate those feeds.
So it becomes its own independent aggregator.
It no longer needs the index.

(56:47):
It's going to exist independently.
It can, it can function off by itself.
And it's just going to start churning through
these, through these feeds, looking for changes.
It's going to every now and then ping
the topic.
And when I say ping the topic, I
mean, everybody sees this ping.
Okay.
There might be, let's say there's 500 nodes.

(57:08):
The 500 nodes in the, that are all
paying attention to this topic.
They are all heart beating, which means they're,
they're pinging saying, I'm still here.
I'm still doing some work.
I'm doing this.
Whenever a certain time limit passes and the
node doesn't ping, it doesn't ping.
It doesn't get sent a heartbeat.

(57:29):
The index takes that work that it assigned.
It takes it back and says, okay, this,
this node has gone away.
So we're going to take this node, this
work away and wait for someone else to
be, to be ready for some work.
And then we'll give that to them.
And so in the, in that way you
could split up, you could sort of shard

(57:50):
the database amongst a whole bunch of different
nodes and they could all act as independent
aggregators.
And when they find something new, they can
ping the topping and say, Hey, uh, I
found a hash change.
So this feed changed.
So the index would know to go and

(58:13):
reap and re-pull that feed.
So you can think of it sort of
like a, a blue collar pod ping in
that way.
You know, this is not so, and, and
again, this is not all the, all the,
all the pod ping hosts, Buzzsprout, you know,
Spreaker, that Blueberry, their RSS.com, they're, they're

(58:34):
not going to be, they're not going to
need this.
These are, this is only for this humongous
chunk of like, you know, diverse feeds coming
from all over the place that don't do
pod ping.
And so of that, let's say there's, let's
say there's 2 million, two and a half

(58:54):
million in the index that do that.
We can slice up the index, assign it
to, you know, a couple hundred nodes, and
we really can start churning through these things.
You know, we got to be careful.
We got to do it slow enough where
we don't DDoS, but we can really start
churning through these feeds and come up with
sort of a, a distributed aggregation system where

(59:17):
the index doesn't have to do all the
work itself, but it's, it's tracking the, the
signals coming back from these nodes saying, okay,
I found something.
So they're really doing the aggregation and discovery
and aggregation?

(59:39):
Initially, yes.
Okay.
So we start with aggregation, distributed, decentralized aggregation.
That's, that's where we start.
And I think you can see the next
step like phase two would be.
Okay.
We're all in the same topic together.
The index is, is sort of acting like

(01:00:01):
a, a manager here acting like the, the
centralized.
Yeah.
Masternode.
I think since president Trump was elected, you
can use the term masternode again.
I'm not sure.
Okay.
Well, somebody said mother.
How about mothership?
Come on.
Mothership.
So the, the index initially is acting like

(01:00:23):
the mothership, but you could see that other
nodes could join and become an index.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
And so you could say, well, now we've
got in to use a, a sysadmin term,
but now we have active active, you know,

(01:00:43):
instead of just active and a bunch of
passives.
So now we can have multiple people that
are tracking, if they're following pod ping and
they're following the distributed aggregation topic, they can
really just be an index.
Here's the question.
How does it work in the reverse for

(01:01:05):
moderation such as my feed change?
Can you change this in the index?
Um, my feed, you know, I need an
episode, uh, uh, is deleted need to refresh.
Um, I think you would, I think it's
going to by necessity be the same way

(01:01:25):
that mastodon functions, whereas you can throw out,
you can throw this delete sort of thing
out there.
Yeah.
And, uh, then it's up to everybody else,
whether to honor it or not.
Okay.
You know, um, yeah, Archie saying is at
least a split brain.
Sure.
Yeah, it does.

(01:01:46):
I mean, you can have certain, certain things
and, you know, but the, the split brain,
uh, problem is, is I'm, I'm less worried
about it in this setup, uh, than I
would be if honestly in something that's truly

(01:02:09):
like a, um, a slave to database setup,
you know, cause then you, then you, you
know, everything's fine.
And then you find out one day that
you're, that you're, you know, slave, uh, SQL
server has drifted from the master, you know,
for the last three weeks.
And then you're like, Oh, I mean, this

(01:02:31):
is like, it's up to everybody.
It's up to everybody else to, um, to
pay attention.
So I'm in my adversarial mode.
So now I want to hijack the Joe
Rogan feed and I want to tell everybody,
no, no, this is the new feed for
Joe Rogan.
Some people will accept that and others will

(01:02:53):
look at it and go, no, no, no,
no, no.
That's not right.
So does it come down to the mothership
to make that determination?
The, so here, there's a couple of things
I think we would have to do.
Uh, number one, we would have to send,
we would have to have some facility to
where, um, we, you would have to, in

(01:03:18):
order to join the topic, you would have
to, you, You have to, you have to
pass initiation tests with Adam and Dave.
In a funny way.
Like, you know, on the, cause that's kind
of what we do now with, with, um,
Podping for Podping.

(01:03:39):
If you want to join, if you want
to send Podpings to podping.cloud, you have
to, you have to ask for a key.
Yeah, that's true.
That's true.
And there's a little bit of a vetting
process that goes through there.
You know, uh, Eric, yeah.
Eric mentioned a proof of work and, um,
you know, uh, Alex has mentioned that too.
A proof of work.
Um, that could be, you know, cause there,
there could be a sort of side chain

(01:04:00):
here that I'm just spit ball and we're,
we're, we're not there yet, spitball, you know,
sort of side chain that feeds back into
this, this thing where you can read it
back in.
So you have pot.
So I guess what I'm saying is you
have Podping, which always serves the purpose that
it's designed for, but we have to be

(01:04:22):
realistic that there's going to be this certain
section of feeds that are just never going
to Podping and, and it's not going to
be a small chunk and that thing needs
its own sort of net to catch with.
And if you catch those feeds and you

(01:04:43):
combine it with Podping, you can build an
index of your, by yourself.
Now, if you are, if you, let's say
you pass the test, you get a ticket
to join the topic and you know, we
sign your, your tick, your joining ticket, you
join the topic and you say, okay, your

(01:05:07):
node announces that it's been L that it's
elevating itself to be an S sort of
an authoritative node.
Like we, we give you that signing authority.
We sign your ticket in a way where
you, you're allowed to do that.
And you say, okay, you know, uh, Dave
sent me a, a signed, uh, ticket because

(01:05:28):
I'm rss.com and, you know, I'm highly
trusted and I'm going to run an index
node.
Well, we would have to have some facility
where if rss.com is worried that their
index node has drifted, they could ping the

(01:05:49):
topic and say, you know, Hey, can I
get an update?
Can we sync?
Because I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm worried
that my, my feed URLs for this section,
maybe this section are off.
And so we could all have a sync
function that, that makes sure that we're all,

(01:06:11):
we're all having serving the same data, you
know, and I think it would just have
to be like that.
I think there would have to just be
certain people, you know, everybody could follow.
Everybody could sort of like folding at home,
that old node software.
Do you remember that stuff where you had
the protein folding thing on, you could download
it and run it on your computer?

(01:06:31):
No, I had, I had a search for
extraterrestrial intelligence.
I had this set.
Yeah.
That, that kind of thing.
So initially everybody, anybody could join that and
say, Hey, I want to do some, that
node aggregation.
I'm going to help you do some feed
aggregation.
And that would be just a workhorse activity
that anybody could run on their machine.
But if you want to go above that

(01:06:53):
and have the ability to act as an
actual authoritative index node, meaning, meaning we could
also forward HTTP calls to you from the
API, then, then you have to be vetted,
you know?
It would, you know, it's interesting because if

(01:07:14):
it were very similar to what SETI was,
it'd be very exciting because SETI was a
bummer.
You know, you just, you just, your computer
was just running and nothing ever happened.
You never got a, an attaboy, you never
got any like, Hey, you know, you did
something cool.
It's just like, Oh, you sent off some
blocks.
You know, if you tell me that, Hey,

(01:07:35):
I aggregated so many feeds and I sent
this much into DHT, I'll feel good about
it.
Sure.
Well, Bimrose says, we give you that authority.
This sounds less and less decentralized by the
moment, but remember, but it's not decentralized because
I said we, okay, initially it's initially it's
me because we're bootstrapping it.

(01:07:55):
But the we is the, is the community
that's going to participate in this thing.
And then you'll have all these, these copies
of the index, basically.
Then if you don't like it, you know,
I'm, I don't trust these guys.
I'm going to go and sit on this
node.
I see it as a lot, very similar
to the way the PKI works now, the

(01:08:17):
public key infrastructure.
There's the, the cab, the certificate authority group
or whatever they're called, the cab alliance.
And the, I mean, the guys who are
really spying on us, you know, authorities, they
invest, they invest authority in each other as

(01:08:40):
a group and they police each other as
a group.
And so if, you know, if, if we
have a future time where we're running part
of, you know, we're running an index node,
rss.com's running an index node, Bussprout, Blueberry,
you know, let's say we have seven of

(01:09:02):
them, seven big ones.
Okay.
If somebody else comes in and wants to
run an index node, let's say, let's say
that Pocket Cast wants to, well then if
six months down the line, you know, like
we would all, we would all say, yeah,

(01:09:23):
this is, we, we trust this person.
Let's do, you know, let's, let's give them
a key.
Then six months down the line, their index
node is just serving crap data all the
time.
You know, as a group, everyone can decide
that this is, you know, we need to
take them out of the pool of, of

(01:09:43):
serving end of serving API data.
So, I mean, there has to, you can't
trust the internet.
What?
I mean, wait, you know, you cannot trust
the internet to just like give you, you
know, one, you know, one wonderful things all
the time.

(01:10:03):
There has to be humans making decisions at
some turn, but I don't want it to
just be me.
I want it to be a group of
people that have proven to be trustworthy.
And that includes anyone who's willing to take
on that responsibility.
And so decentralizing doesn't mean, you know, like
it doesn't mean deauthorizing.

(01:10:24):
It just means, it means spreading the authorization
for this stuff through a larger number of
people so that there's no single point of,
of trust or everybody has to think Dave's
the good guy, you know, or, or whatever.
Cause I mean, James may want to run
part of a node, you know, part of

(01:10:44):
the index.
Like James may be interested in running all
of the, uh, the index, uh, shows that
are exactly out of Australia.
So, which funny enough in that section, funny
enough is how the initial iPod or worked.
If you remember, we had the world outline

(01:11:05):
OPML world outline.
Totally.
Yeah.
And I, and I had the top node
and I pasted in all these, it was
done by geography.
And there was someone who was, uh, running
the, the Holland node.
And then that person delegated that sub nodes
to that, to someone who was doing science.
Someone was doing tech, you know, et cetera,
et cetera, et cetera.
I mean, it, it, it worked really well.

(01:11:27):
I mean, the, the technology wasn't spiffy, but
the concept worked really well.
And that was a decentralized directory.
Totally.
You know, and, but, but you had to
initially.
Now I'm not saying we can never get
to a point where it's completely automated, but
initially at least to, to, to, to get

(01:11:48):
down the road of where we want to
go.
I like it.
You know, we have to, we have to
take these, we have to take the steps
to make sure that we're not just going
to, you know, shoot ourself in the foot.
And I don't, I don't want to build
another, you know, proof of work, blockchain sort

(01:12:09):
of bit.
I don't want to have to reinvent Bitcoin
to get some sort of like deauthoritated, you
know, like, because it's hard enough just to
build this stuff.
We can do that late.
We can do that later.
Um, you know, because what's going to be
required is going to be the, the peer
to peer stuff on top of the aggregator,
which I started building yesterday.

(01:12:30):
The new aggregators, because, because now every node
has to be able to aggregate.
So it has, you know, there's going to
have to be a new, uh, all the
peer to peer stuff and a new aggregator
and a parser and a local database.
I mean, there's, there's going to be a
lot of work.
Um, so we can initially just sign tickets
ourselves to let people do stuff.

(01:12:52):
And then later we can, you know, we
can layer on something that will maybe do
it in a more, you know, zero trust
model.
Well, Dave, I got five gigabits of fiber.
I got a start nine and an umbrella.
I'm ready to go.
You're ready to roll.
We'll melt that on your Hill country.
Node is geared up and ready.

(01:13:12):
Yeah.
I mean, like I would love to, I
would love to forward API calls to, you
know, for no agendas section of the index
to Hill country dot com, whatever.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love it.
Wow.
You want to, you want to play a
song to cleanse our palette?

(01:13:32):
Yes, please.
And I gotta, I gotta pee.
Okay.
Well, you can pee, but you only have
two minutes and 44 seconds because it's a
short song.
Um, I've been a little bit out of
the loop and I went to see what
was in the podcast index dot top.
I see the doorfalls have released a new
song this month and a song last month,
and I want to play one of them.
This is now.
I know from the door full verse, you

(01:13:54):
know, you're getting older when you feel like
a kid and your eyes are so tired
and there's hair on your chin.
Mom always said, be young while you can.
Now I know what she meant.
I always wanted to grow up fast and
skip out of school.

(01:14:15):
Pack of my bags.
You'll get your chance.

(01:14:46):
Oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,

(01:15:12):
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh I wouldn't
let the memories live while they pass Now
I know everything I wanted I had At
least And I

(01:15:41):
try to be honest But honestly, it's hard
When the future's not in store You worry
about me Now I'm not there anymore I
just wanted to be a man I couldn't

(01:16:03):
stop thinking about what I didn't have I
wouldn't let the memories live while they pass
Now I know everything I wanted I already
had I just wanted to be a man
Couldn't stop thinking about what I didn't have
I wouldn't let the memories live while they

(01:16:24):
pass Now I know everything I wanted I
already had Dorfels, Now I Know on Podcasting
2.0 Thanks for not boosting everybody, appreciate
it Go back, you can rewind and you
can boost Boost them, boost those Dorfels So,

(01:16:45):
looking at the time We want to thank
some people, that was good by the way
And our first live boost that I have
to read actually pertains to it Okay From
Cole McCormick 11.11 Dave Jones is lighting
up the world right now Connecting philosophical, spiritual
truths and podcasting That's so my vibe I

(01:17:06):
need a whole new podcast where Dave dives
deep into these topics Truly incredible line of
thought from the pod, sage, godspeed gentlemen And
go podcasting There you go Thank you ChadF3333
for the Dorfels Deez Laughs with 11.11
Boosting, for more Boostergram Ball How many sats
to get my record play Bribing DJs and

(01:17:27):
sats is the new way forward I agree
Hit me up with your Bitcoin bro, full
Bitcoin Make Canada America Go podcasting Who said
that?
Deez Laughs, he's a Canadian The Canadians want
it, they want to be a part of
it They want to be the 51st state
Thank you Dave Jones for the propaganda breakdown
and reading lists We have 11.600 From

(01:17:52):
anonymous podcast guru user There's that guy again
Your vape box popping sound was audible during
your Joe Rogan podcast At least your other
shows you don't hear the actual sucking in
of the air Like it did on Rogan,
this is true That's because I have a
noise gate And sometimes the pop I always
try to move away from the gate Just
from the mic when I vape But sometimes

(01:18:15):
the popping is just too loud Yeah Darren
O, wow 21,425 sats Valentine's Day's boost
Listen to Planet Rage, planetrage.show Thank you
There's our 777 from Sam which I read
earlier And we have Let me see Hit
the delimiter Let's see, we've got We got

(01:18:39):
a good PayPal week Nice Yes Let me
say one more thing real quick On the
importance of directories That's the reason Apple owned
podcasting Is because of their open API on

(01:18:59):
the directory Is because they had the directory
And we'll never solve that problem Until we
solve this problem So we got And that's
a big That's an important statement Because when
it's open like that And everybody knows that
it's open It will become the directory Yeah

(01:19:20):
Whoever owns the default directory Of podcasting Owns
a significant Power within podcasting itself And so
it has to be spread out It has
to And right now we have power No
The power we're trying to Offload as fast
as possible We're trying to get rid of

(01:19:41):
that power Exactly $500 Wow From
Pete Warden He says Pete?
I don't think I've ever heard of Pete
Have you heard of Pete?
I don't know Pete He just says Thanks
for the great service And that's all he

(01:20:02):
says Well let's defragment him Thank you Thank
you so much Pete Appreciate that Oh guess
who this is $200 from John Spurlock Whoa
Hello John Spurlock Paula Shot caller 20 inch

(01:20:23):
blaze on the Impala Did he have a
note?
He says thanks for re-running those Omni
feeds Take those crawlers out for a nice
dinner Crawling to dinner Spurlock I think your
Node is broken Whatever Yeah Comic strip blogger

(01:20:44):
said there were three Red payments and one
of them was Was his His boost Chapter
thingy my bob Oh that's not good Because
that thing's cool Yeah it's very cool Okay
well we've got Oh and $200 from Oscar
Mary Paula Shot caller 20 inch blaze on

(01:21:08):
the Impala Thank you Oscar and thank you
for making payments great again Baller baller baller
Baller And we've got Podverse Mitch and the
boys at Podverse $50 Yeah we'll give you
a big boost Thank you We've got some
booster grams Somewhere I've been running Albie Hub

(01:21:31):
On my Start 9 And so I've listened
to all my shows I always stream 200
sats a minute To everybody I'm a podcast
guru I look at podcast gurus like all
these payments have failed What's going on I
stream to Power Pod News This Week in
Bitcoin And I Rebooted my node but you

(01:21:55):
have to Manually unlock Your Albie Hub Oh
no You've been streaming with nothing There is
an auto unlock which I found Which is
cool but I just Was not aware of
that Is it the webhook thing?
No it's not a webhook thing it's in
the console On your node I have that

(01:22:17):
balance Of Satoshi's daily report For our node
and it just stopped working I just got
an empty message And it even does that
on the console I don't know what's wrong
So I've got to figure out And I
tried to run it Without redirecting the output
and just use like a verbose Switch and
it just gives me nothing It's just like
it's completely blank I don't know It's pulling

(01:22:40):
boosts okay but it's just not That's too
bad I don't know how to get in
there Can you like you can pull up
like ride the lightning Or something and check
the node and just make sure it's okay
Our node?
Yeah That's what I'm talking about I'm talking
about the podcast index I'm sure it is
but sure sure sure Node On voltage you

(01:23:03):
mean yeah Yeah on voltage Let me check
man Let me get in there Adam Curry
Lightning those To Podcast index it says running
Oh an update To your node is available

(01:23:23):
Nope Let's not do that Can you ride
the lightning And like just check it I
can try Ride the lightning or thunder hub
They have thunder hub Yeah it It usually
crashes Thunder hub Was not meant for The

(01:23:45):
girth of our node The girth It's provisioning
It's provisioning I almost got scammed by the
way By a fake Alex Bosworth Oh wow
I didn't tell you this No you almost
logged in To the node by giving them
our password No no no nothing like that

(01:24:07):
It didn't get that far What happened was
I was trying to export our transactions For
taxes and stuff To the Spreadsheet like I
do every year Around this time It takes
days to export Out of balance of satoshis
Balance of satoshis kept giving me an error

(01:24:28):
About an hour Into the export Last year
the same thing happened And I got on
to the telegram channel For balance of satoshi
support And I said Hey here's the error
I'm getting It was a node memory error
I was like here's an error I'm getting
What should I do And Alex Bosworth responded

(01:24:50):
And he said Try doing this He gave
me something to try and rerun the command
I was like ok yeah sure So I
did that and then like two seconds later
He DMs me On a private chat And
says did that work He said did that
work Ooh dangerous And I was like I

(01:25:10):
don't know It's still running And so Telegram
DMs Yeah so it's still running And he's
like ok just let me know If it
works I was like ok So then about
30 minutes later He's like did it finish
or is it still running And I was
like I'm like it's still running And I

(01:25:32):
was like I'll let you know And then
so I Messaged him back and I was
like Ok it's done and he's like Did
you get an error and I'm like no
So he's Going along with this tech support
And then at some point he's like Do
you have a Cryptocurrency wallet you can Attach

(01:25:52):
to this node And I was like what
Cryptocurrency wallet What And I'm so far into
this at this point Mentally it doesn't even
Compute I'm like What do you mean cryptocurrency
wallet He's like I can suggest a wallet
And I was like Red alert I was

(01:26:15):
like lol Nice try delete So I couldn't
connect with Thunder Hub It crashed right away
so I connected With Zeus and we are
Receiving streaming sats I just don't know why
the I don't know why the Balance of
Satoshi Was there an upgrade to Boss Was

(01:26:36):
there a software update because it may be
Incompatible with our version That may be true
Since we're behind one But if I update
our node like we're offline For five hours
Yeah it may be I'll ask What's our
Buddy's name over there Graham I'll ask him

(01:26:56):
About the update We got Gene Bean 1337
sats He says this is just cool I'm
in Ghent Belgium For a conference listening to
podcasting 2.0 In Castamatic and sending Sats
via my Albi Hub at my house in
Georgia in the US by Way of Telscale

(01:27:17):
Tunnel It has to a VPS in Ashburn
Virginia Just like I would on a normal
day in Georgia No borders or exchange rates
are getting in the way Beautiful, beautiful It
does work Satchelor Richard From Rascalart 1111 sends
through Podverse He says cheers, appreciate the info

(01:27:38):
I don't know what info we gave them
It was something good, it was cheers worthy
SaltyCrayon2222 RoaDux the podcast guru He said howdy
boardroom Had to relook at the date Hasn't
been a boardroom meeting Since January 31st Yes
we're bad Unfortunately missing this one due to
a road trip Welcome back in the pipe

(01:28:01):
And then we got The Delimiter comic strip
blogger 15515 through Fountain That's a quadfecta Of
apps No no no We got Castamatic Podverse
Podcast guru and Fountain Four boosts from four
different apps Nice Comic strip blogger says Howdy

(01:28:23):
Dave and Adam Firstly congrats to Adam on
Huge life achievement Scoring another Joe Rogan experience
this week Huge life achievement Unlocked It's huge
Even though Adam's Parlor trick slur deeply offended
Our AI over Secondly Joe is Texan now

(01:28:47):
And I'd like to recommend a Brill podcast
www.just2goodolboys.com Made in Texas by Gene
and Ben They talk tech Hose and guns
Yo CSB Thank you CSB Tag Hose and

(01:29:07):
guns That's their tagline That's what you need
Let's see what we got We got some
monthlies Chad Pharaoh Chad F $20.22 Cameron
Rose $25 Kevin Bay $5 Mark Graham $1
Martin Lindeskog $1 Podpage Brendan $25 Randall Black

(01:29:28):
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then there's Lauren Ball $24.20 Wow, good
week Well it's two weeks really Thank you
all so much We got more Mitch Downey
$10 Christopher Harabaric $10 Terry Keller $5 Silicone

(01:29:52):
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(01:30:14):
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You can see a big red donate button

(01:30:34):
You hit that to send us fiat fund
coupons Or of course you can just boost
us You can always send a bitcoin on
-chain We'll accept that Do we have a
node?
A bitcoin address?
I don't know if we have a bitcoin
address Some rich person, some sugar daddy The
node, right?
The node address Yeah, I guess Yeah, you

(01:30:57):
can get it off Ambles, right?
Let me see Do we have...
I don't think we have anything PodcastIndex Donate,
what's the big donate podcast?
It's the PayPal I'll have to put something
up there Anyway, thank you all, we appreciate
that And wow What a difference from two

(01:31:17):
weeks ago When people were like, you only
talk about AI And what did we talk
about today?
We talked about decentralizing the index And philosophy
It's a beautiful thing You're a beautiful man,
Dave Jones Oh, well thank you I'm humbled
Hey Boredoom, thank you very much We'll be
back next week And looking forward to it

(01:31:38):
We will continue this discussion and many more
All about podcasting 2.0 See you then
everybody