Episode 227: Gimme Root!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Podcasting 2.0 for July 4th, 2025, episode
227.
Hello, everybody.
Happy 4th of July.
Happy Independence Day from America to the rest
of the world.
That's right.
We're foam finger number one, chauvinist all the
way.

(00:20):
This is the official board meeting of podcasting
2.0 where we talk about it all
and a lot about ourselves and all kinds
of interesting stuff when it comes to podcasting.
We are, in fact, the only boardroom that
has always been independent.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who will give you two monitors, five
if your manager lets you.
Say hello to my friend on the other

(00:41):
end, the one, the only Mr. Dave Jones.
You said chauvinism.
It reminded me that I never told you
my accidental misogyny story.
Well, you know, to be fair, we were
having such a good time with Rocky and
you didn't want to screw it up because,

(01:02):
you know, it was that was a good
show.
I'd listened to it again, actually.
I did.
I had a lot of fun.
I got a lot of good comments.
People like, did you?
Yes.
Rocky should take over the show.
You guys don't need to show anymore.
Just let Rocky do the show.
Get rid of Dave.
No, no.
The thing about getting rid of me, Rocky
and Dave.

(01:22):
It's the Rocky and Dave show.
I got you.
That does sound like a cartoon from the
70s.
Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Yeah.
Yes, indeed.
We are we are live and lit, everybody.
Finally, I thought it wasn't.
I thought it wasn't going to happen.
Well, Stephen B is is working hard and
on on the 4th of July, which I

(01:43):
appreciate.
I just think we had a little problem
with sovereign feeds and I haven't had a
problem with sovereign feeds for a long, long
time.
I mean, I can't even think how long
it's been since I've had to reach out
for help.
But of course, it of course, it always
happens on a holiday.
That's when stuff always breaks.
We know that's the law of the jungle.

(02:03):
Do you know how scared I am to
go on this upcoming trip where I will
be in the wilderness with zero cell coverage
for about six days?
I keep telling you, just give me root,
baby.
It'll I'll take care of everything.
Give me root.
Give me root.
I need root.

(02:25):
Yes, you can have root.
I'll give you root.
Having root and knowing what to do with
root are just completely like I've told you,
I've told you my root story, haven't I?
I don't think so.
I think early day, this was on-ramp
before, maybe it was it was on-ramp
before we became Think New Ideas.
And we had, I'm pretty sure we had

(02:48):
Anheuser-Busch.
So we had budweiser.com.
Maybe we didn't have budlight.com yet.
We're probably still building it.
Planetrebock.com.
And we were building it all on a
sun spark station.
I want to say it was spark five.
Does that sound right?
Either spark five, maybe a spark 20.

(03:10):
No, it must have been a spark.
I think it was a spark five.
Running Solaris.
Running Solaris.
And there were two problems with this machine.
Apache.
I guess it's all Apache, right?
Yeah.
One was the first problem we had because
we had our machines called like everything from,
you know, sci-fi names like say we

(03:34):
had Nero and we had Neuromancer.
These are the host names.
Host names.
Yeah.
And I think like Neuromancer or something showed
up in a referral log and someone, a
client saw that and said, we're being hacked.
There's hackers.
So that was that, but that wasn't the

(03:54):
root problem.
The root problem was, I think it was
probably one of those, funny enough, it might've
been a holiday.
I was the only one in the office
and I think we were running out of
disk space and like, oh, okay, well I'll
just remove some of this junk here.
Oh no.
Yep.

(04:15):
Oh no.
So I did an rm-R star, which
was the right thing to do if it
hadn't been root access in the root directory.
And it literally, it deleted the shell.
I mean, it deleted everything.
Everything.
Everything.
Literally everything.
It recursively just, and I'm like, hey, the
machine stopped working.

(04:37):
But your disk problem is fixed.
The disk problem was fixed.
Unfortunately, we had to then back it up,
you know, restore backups from tape.
Oh, that takes hours.
Days.
It took a long time.
You know, the old school, like Legato, was
it Legato tapes?
Was that what it was?
The Legato backup?
LVM.
I can't remember.

(04:58):
This can't be pre, this is probably pre
LVM.
Cause like the, the, um, so when I
used to work at an insurance brokerage, it
was my first IT job and we ran
a huge AS400.
Ah, nothing like a little bit of AS400
baby.
I love those machines.

(05:20):
The, and so the AS, so we had
a new guy who had only been there
like a month and he was a.
He got blamed.
I can already tell the end of the
story.
New guy got blamed.
Oh yeah.
I mean, it was totally, it was, it
was totally his fault.
But we, so there was like a holiday.
And this is Cobalt that's running on these
four, these four hundreds.

(05:40):
Yeah, it must be.
No, no.
RPG 400.
Oh, right, right.
That was the IBM OS.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
RPG.
And so he, uh, so every night there
was a huge sequence of batch jobs that
would run, that would generate all the premium
invoices and all this kind of stuff for
all the insurance lines that we had.
Oh man.
Thousands and thousands of pages, uh, policy expirations,

(06:04):
all these batch jobs.
Big, big batch job.
Sure.
That's what, that's what they're good at.
And we had a night operator that would
run this every night while he was on
vacation and nobody in the, in the, in
the MIS department wanted to stay because it
was a holiday weekend.
And so they're like, let's get the new
guy to do it.
Let Mikey try it.

(06:24):
He doesn't like anything.
This guy had never, uh, I mean, he,
he was a history major in college.
He had no like zero, zero.
He had taken like one programming class.
That was the extent of his knowledge of
computers.
And so they got in there and they're
like giving him like not, he's like, they're
like, you're going to, here's all the things
you're going to have to do over the
course of the next eight hour shift are

(06:46):
going to work.
And they're like, just type this command.
If you see it say this, then type
this other command.
But if it says this other thing, then
type this third command.
And they just over fire hosed him with
information for like 45 minutes.
And they're like, okay, you good?
And they all left.
And dude, I mean, it was two o
'clock in the morning.
He had been releasing batch jobs on top
of other batch jobs and he screwed the

(07:07):
system up so bad.
They had to work all weekend to restore
everything back to the way it was.
Oh man.
And I'm like, it's y'all's fault.
You should have never done that.
That's so bad.
You know, AS400 was my client, the AS400
division of IBM.
It's a great product.
It's still in use.
Yeah.
Except they wanted to, they said, look, um,

(07:29):
we, we love that you're going to, cause
we were just a website building company before
front page existed.
Remember, remember front page?
That was so good.
So I was like, how big are you?
Uh, you're IBM.
Yeah.
Cold fusion.
What was the other one?
There was another, uh.
Dreamweaver?
Dreamweaver.

(07:52):
Dreamweaver.
And so like, well, you're IBM, so it's
$50,000 a month for your website and
maintenance, maintenance.
And they said, that's okay.
Which they all typically did because in the
land of the blind, one eye is King.
And they said, but it has to run
on an AS400 web server.
Oh, gross.

(08:13):
Did not exist.
No.
So we built it.
We built it and it sucked so bad.
I remember the first web server in an
AS400 that, that, um, was a part of,
it was the worst pile of crap.
It was horrible.
Yeah.
Because everybody had at the back in the
day, it was, uh, a dynamic website included

(08:34):
the directory CGI dash bin.
Bin.
CGI bin.
Yeah.
And the bins in the CGI bin directory
were not very good.
You know, didn't work.
Perl scripts.
They were all Perl scripts.
Yeah.
Usually.
So I, so I'm having, I'm using Python.
Is Python known to just over time slurp

(08:54):
up memory if scripts are running?
Is that a Python thing?
No, that shouldn't be a Python thing.
I mean, I mean, it's possible, like, I
mean, I mean, it's, it's a, I think
Python is a garbage collected language.
So it's possible that it will grow over
time, but it, it shouldn't leak memory over

(09:16):
time.
You know, like it should like level off.
Yeah.
I'm also seeing my swap file is almost
500 megs.
So maybe I can increase my swap file.
Swap file?
What your, like your system, your swap partition?
Yeah.
500 megs is not a big deal.
It's full.
It's at 493.

(09:39):
How much, how much RAM is on this
VM?
Eight.
Eight gigs?
Eight, eight to the G to the B.
If you do a free, if you do,
if you run the command free space, Free
Nelson Mandela.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Run that and see what that says.
Free space dash one M.

(09:59):
That's it.
Yeah.
I think you may have to run it
as pseudo, but yeah.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm using 37 gigs, 3.7 gigs
and the swap is 495 megs.
3.7 out of eight.
That's not, that's not a bad.
Yeah.
But it started like at 1.8 with
the same process running.

(10:21):
So it's just grown over time.
It's grown a gig in a week.
Well, as long as it doesn't, as long
as it doesn't continue to grow.
I know.
I know, but the more processes I might
have to run, I don't know, something called
channel streams, I'm going to run it.
But you might not have, like, look, what
I'm saying is like, it might not be
dependent on how many channels.

(10:42):
I mean, you may be able to spin
up, you know, 25 more in there and
it only grow by a hundred megs.
Oh, doubtful, but Oh, I mean, try it,
try it.
I'm thinking maybe it's, maybe it's liquid soap.
That's a, you know, the Oak, Oak camel
based language.
Maybe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's possible.

(11:03):
I'm thinking that, that may be growing.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, liquid soap, I mean, usually
languages themselves don't have memory leaks, but you
know, like, Yeah, well, it's okay.
We can do the show.
No problem.
I just have this disturbing H top monitor
to my right.

(11:23):
Like first thing in the morning, forget Bible
study.
Let me look at the H top.
Okay.
All right.
Whatever you see, that was your first problem
is monitor is, is keeping it up where
you can see it.
You should just, that's why, that's why when
you asked me if there was something wrong
with the web hook server, I said, no,
because I don't see it.
No, there's nothing, nothing I can see.
No, I mean, it's not really, it's not

(11:45):
in front of me.
So I'm like, no, I mean, prove it.
You know, we, we've had such a wonderful,
a wonderful week, by the way, happy 4th
of July, everybody independence day for America.
This is our 249th birthday.
I heard you James Cridland.
I heard your snide more remark.
It's okay.
I don't even want it.
Oh, it's like a independence day.

(12:06):
Apparently still for us, not for anybody else.
They're still sour over it.
That's the problem.
That's the problem with my, I need, I
need a, I need an, uh, I need
old glory up here in the studio.
I'm not in the patriotic mood right now.
Let me get old glory up.

(12:27):
You got old glory there.
You get, can you, can you raise the
old glory?
I'm doing it virtually on the screen.
There we go.
There you go.
All right.
I'm good.
I'm good to go now.
We've had, we've had such a fun, a
fun week because we got to experience what
many members of the boardroom have experienced for
years, which is customers, users.

(12:53):
Yes.
And, uh, and now I understand why Steve
jobs at one point said, Hey, look, you're
holding it wrong.
Okay.
You're just holding it wrong because it works
fine in the lab.
We were held it like this.
You're they, they actually were holding it wrong.
They just had never been explained how to
hold it.

(13:14):
Right.
Exactly.
Technically he was, he was being correct.
Well, yeah, technically it was kind of rude,
but it's really interesting.
You never know.
I think you said it.
You never know how your users are going
to use your products.
You just don't know.
And then you go like, Oh, well, that's
interesting.

(13:34):
And the things that they don't use, like,
well, what's wrong with you?
Why don't you use that?
It's so obvious.
Power users.
Well, power users are the worst.
And I consider myself to be one of
those big offenders.
No, you're not.
See, you're not a tip.
Okay.
Let me define power user though.
Let me be, let's, let's get accurate with
this thing.

(13:54):
A power in, in it support circles, a
power user is somebody who.
Is convinced that they know more that they
know either as much as you do or
more than you do.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so, and they don't like that.
Anything that they've done is, is your problem,
not theirs.

(14:14):
So like, but you're not like that, you
know, a lot of, you know, I mean,
you're a very technical person and you know
how to, you know, do some coding, you
know, how to run some systems, you know,
I mean, like, you know, a lot of
stuff, but you also are self-aware to
say, there are some things I don't know,
and I'm going to have to ask advice
or help or whatever.
The power user never considers that their problem

(14:35):
is their problem.
It's always the IT department, MIS department.
Yeah.
That's my favorite MIS department.
Yeah.
It's like, Hey, I, um, uh, I know
we're running windows 10, but I went ahead
and upgraded to windows 11.
Um, uh, just, you know, I force installed
it with a USB drive.
Can you, uh, and now all my apps
don't work.
Can you fix that?
Gee, clearly it's, uh, it's, it's the, it's

(14:58):
the machine.
It's the machine's fault.
It's the machine you gave me.
It's not my upgrade path.
Yeah.
Right, right.
Well, I also have the scars to show
for it.
Yeah.
You learned it the hard way.
You've earned your stripes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Some.
Yes, for sure.
Hey, good news.
Um, after Rocky's appearance yesterday, wheels are in
motion.
I'm signed up podcast movement, August 19th, 1

(15:20):
30 PM pending, but I'll just say it
looks like that's happening.
And I'm very grateful to the soundstack folks
for, uh, for making that happen.
Cause you know, they're paying for it.
They, they, they pay for the session.
Okay.
So because they pay for it, it's not
going to be in the break room next
to the snack machine.
Exactly.
And it's 1 30 PM.
So it's after lunch, not during lunch.

(15:40):
Like we were, it's after lunch.
That's good.
Yeah.
And, uh, yeah.
And they're, and they're all emailing me like,
oh, we're super stoked, man.
This is great.
It's going to be fantastic.
I remember, I remember you from MTV.
That has a lead with that.
All that's, all that's missing is, Hey boomer,
looking forward to seeing it.
Podcast movement, boomer.

(16:02):
That's, that's all.
That's all.
So what are you, what are your plan?
I mean, like, what's your plan?
Are you going to fly?
Oh yeah, no, of course.
I'm taking advantage of it to fly myself
up and back.
I'm going to do one day.
I'm not even hanging out.
Oh, like I'm coming in like a rock
star first skirt.
How you doing girls?
How you doing?
Let me give you a little podcast in
2.0 stuff.

(16:22):
Yeah, I'll go up there.
We'll get it.
I'll get in nice and early.
And, uh, and then, you know, I, and
that's the good news.
I can leave whenever I want.
You know, because yeah.
How does that work?
Do you have to pay for like storing
the plane while you do your thing and
then come back?
Uh, well, it all, it all depends.
So it's, um, it's Dallas.
So, uh, we'll probably go to Addison, uh,

(16:44):
which is, you know, I mean, there's, you
have multiple choices of airfields, but it really
comes down to your FBO in the, in
the jargon, your field based on your field
-based operator.
So you can sometimes find a guy, you
know, with a hanger and a toe, like
a manual toe, or you can just roll
up to million air, a million air where

(17:08):
all the private jets go.
And, um, you know, they'll come out, they'll
wash your plane.
They'll fill it up.
They got a lounge.
You get some coffee.
And they send you a bill for eight
grand.
Actually, if you, if you, the way it
works is if you take fuel from them,
then there's no charge.
Really?
Yeah.
If you don't take.
That sounds okay.
Yeah.

(17:28):
If you don't take fuel, then, uh, then
there's typically a charge and it depends of
size of aircraft, but it could be $50
to $400, I guess, depending on how big
your aircraft is.
Yeah.
So they take care of it and you
get a nice, you know, it's protected, nice
parking spot.
And they'll keep it there.
And, um, since it won't be, so it'll

(17:50):
be August.
So it won't get dark until nine, even
though we can, um, I think, I don't
know what time our, we'll be back by
eight.
I think our field closes at eight here
in, uh, right next to the house, basically
five minutes from the house.
Do you have to be, is it a
specific type of certification you have to have
to fly at night?
Is that separate?

(18:11):
Not at night, but, uh, to fly, uh,
IFR instrument flight rules, which means you're under
control by the, um, uh, the air well,
there's okay.
Longer answer was first answer.
Yes.
If you want to fly with air traffic
control, which you really want because Dallas is
super busy and, and, you know, you want

(18:34):
to come in like the big boys do.
And so they'll sequence you and they'll vector
you and all that stuff.
If you're VFR only, then you, you're going
to be kind of like a hobbyist and
they're gonna, you know, get you in when
they can.
Uh, but you, you can also get flight
following, which means, Hey, you know, if you
see me about to crash into somebody else,
would you let me know?
It's not quite the same as, um, as

(18:56):
IFR vectoring.
Now, this is okay.
I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is,
this is, uh, I think, uh, I don't
know if I'm understanding you're right.
Are you saying that you can choose to
fly with no air traffic control?
Yes.
Well, it's not like no air traffic control
because when you, um, when you're flying with

(19:16):
it, okay.
So there's all these different airspaces.
So when I, when we take off from
Fredericksburg, we're technically under San Antonio.
So we'll, but we don't have to call
San Antonio for just going to fly around.
We'll just say, okay.
Hey, everybody out there near Fredericksburg, we're going
up now.
Here we are.
Look out for us.
That's basically it.
But then if you fly into, if you're

(19:38):
about to fly, there's all these different airspaces.
And so we fly outside of our own
aerodrome.
Then you want to call, uh, San Antonio
and say, Hey, we're VFR.
We're tootling around.
Here's what we're doing.
We're going to be here.
This is what we're doing.
And they'll be okay.
And then you can say, well, we're going
to go to Dallas.
Could you give us flight following?
Which means they'll keep, they'll give you a

(19:58):
number.
So then your transponder is squawking a code
and they'll say, okay, that's a, that's curry
over there.
And, and they expect that you'll, you'll be
at a certain, um, altitude.
You can't go above a certain altitude.
So maybe it'll be like 5,000 feet
or it could be, it could even be
9,000 feet in some cases before we
have to get oxygen actually.

(20:20):
Um, and then, so you can just fly
around as you go from airspace to airspace.
Then you'll, you'll call the air, the ATC
and say, Hey, I'm a, I'm about to
head into, um, well, this case there's what's
in between us, like Waco.
Maybe if we go via Waco.
So I'll say, Hey, Waco, we're going to
go into Waco's airspace.
We'll call Waco and say, Hey, we are,

(20:40):
this is what we're squawking.
Okay.
And now when you're IFR, you file a
flight plan.
You have this, these pathways, it's like a
highway in the sky and you're going to
go from point to point.
And the air traffic control.
So when, before we leave the ground in
Fredericksburg, we'll call San Antonio, they say, okay,
uh, you're good to go.

(21:01):
Uh, when you, uh, once you're taken off,
this is your heading direct towards this point.
And then as we're flying, they may adjust
us.
And so they're basically in control of the
routing.
So we can't just tootle around.
We have to stay on that highway.
And if they say, Hey, you know, uh,
change direction to this because we got these
guys coming in.
It all depends on the, on the busyness

(21:21):
of the airspace.
And then you can ask them for permission
to go to another out to go to
a different altitude.
Yes.
And you do, you have to say, Hey,
uh, uh, I'm at, I'm at eight.
It's a little choppy here.
I want to go to eight and a
half or well, it depends on which direction
you're flying to, but let's say eight.
I want to go to nine.
Uh, then they'll say, okay, it's approved.
Go ahead to nine.
And then if, if there's really bad weather,

(21:43):
then ATC will likely say, Hey, you know,
hey Curry, uh, looks like he got some
bad weather.
Would you like me to route you around
it?
Or I can say, Hey, I don't like
it up here.
Can you route me around it?
Okay.
Okay.
But then the trick is when you get
to Dallas, it's so busy because there's five
airfields up there and from the air, they're

(22:04):
all pretty close and there's everything flying every
which way private jets, um, you know, it's
a big Southwest, uh, hub at love field.
And so if you're coming in and they're
sequencing you, first of all, you're slower than
everybody.
So they are, nobody likes you in general
because you're slower.
Yeah.
Right.
You know, it's like you're playing behind a

(22:24):
slow guy in golf.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're going slow.
And then depending on how confident you sound,
they're going to, they're going to get you
in.
So if, if you don't sound confident to
the controller, the controller is going to be
very careful with you and it's going to
make you fly.
But once you go that way for 15
minutes and we'll bring you back.
But I've had it where I've been flying

(22:45):
in the like, okay, um, uh, I forget
what my call sign was at the time.
November Delta two, seven, seven Shira, or they'll
say, um, what is it?
Cirrus, uh, Cirrus Delta Shira.
Uh, we've got a Southwest.
He's going 300 knots.
Uh, I'm just going to have him pass
on your right hand side T Casaware, which
means your collision warning is going to go

(23:06):
off, but don't be freaked out because I'm
going to have the Southwest airplane pass right
over to your right.
Yeah.
That sounds like not fun.
No, that's cool with that.
You're waving at each other.
The pilot's waving.
We're waving back.
Oh really?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, that sounds scary to me.
And then you also have military stuff flying
all over the place.
Yeah.
This guy's, this guy's doing 700 miles an

(23:26):
hour and you'll pay no attention.
Oh, that's freaky.
Oh man, that's freaky.
And then the worst part is when you're
landing behind a seven 37, as an example,
you're coming in and say, okay, your sequence
behind the Southwest seven 37, uh, be aware
of jet wash.
Yeah.
I mean, jet wash is no turbulence.

(23:47):
Oh yeah.
No, if you come down in the fresh
jet wash, it can flip your panel plane
upside down.
Whoa.
Yeah.
So when, when they say be aware of
jet wash, I mean like, what does that
mean?
Good luck, buddy.
Good luck.
Could you, don't crash on the runway.
We have other planes coming in.
If you flip, try to go to the
left.

(24:07):
Try to flip over that way.
Yeah, but this is so interesting.
I had no idea that you could like
choose what level of ATC you wanted.
I thought you were just in the system
and you had to follow the rules all
the time.
No, well, we're also America, baby.
This is where the, this is 249 years
of freedom.
So in Fredericksburg, we don't have an ATC.

(24:28):
We don't have no glory.
We don't have a tower or anything.
So, you know, no.
So you roll up to the runway and
you're already monitoring, of course.
And like, uh, okay, uh, you know, call
sign.
We're lined up runway two to Fredericksburg or
Gillespie is what we should say.
Gillespie will be taking off.
And then you hope to hear someone say,

(24:49):
oh, you know, I'm coming in final.
I'm like, oh, you're coming in final.
I'll wait for you.
Now, but do you hang your arm out
the window and do the like stop left?
No, you hang your left arm out the
window with your cigarette.
I'm ready to go.
But here's what's even crazier.
So, um, uh, Bernie, the Bernie stage airport,

(25:13):
which is, you know, it's an hour drive,
but through the air, it's 15 minutes.
We share the same frequency.
So when you are making your call outs
around either Bernie or the Fredericksburg airport, which
is known as Gillespie, you have to always
start and end with Gillespie.
Otherwise, somebody in Bernie may think that you're
coming in on their runway when you're actually

(25:34):
coming in on the runway here in Fredericksburg.
Because they're close enough.
You can hear it.
You can hear each other.
Yeah.
And we're on the same frequency.
Great.
That's great.
This is why, this is why we have
a $60 billion for upgrade of the ATC
system in the big, beautiful bill.
It's actually more, there's probably more like a
trillion.
It's like 3 trillion.

(25:55):
I think no, no, no, it can't be
that.
It's, it's like, it's, it's tens of billions.
This, this is when it's, it's one of
those things where you find out how loose,
how loosey goosey the system is.
And you're like, man, I've got so much
mad respect that there's not any, that there's

(26:15):
hardly ever any crashes.
Well, there's all kinds of crashes all the
time.
You just don't hear about them.
I mean, you can go into the, here's,
here's my secret website.
Pprune.org.
P-P-R-U-N-E.org.
That's the pilot something.
This basically pilot freaks who go there.
And we talk about all kinds of stuff.

(26:38):
Pilot's rumor network.
There you go.
And look under accidents and close calls.
Oh no.
That's the one.
And there's, there's incursions that happen all the
time.
Someone runs off the runway.
Someone lost the, you know, this, most of
these are not a big deal.
It's like bad day.
Everyone walks away.
No one was hurt.

(26:59):
You only hear about it when someone crashes
into a house and they die.
Delta 737 loses a flap.
Yeah, minor, minor, minor.
It's a minor issue.
In a way, but in a way, David,
in a way it's like being a sysadmin.
You've got stuff happening all the time that
users have no idea happened.
And they have no idea how close they

(27:21):
were to total Armageddon.
Right.
This, I mean, Delta Boeing 737 lost a
wing flap midair.
Nobody knew until it appeared in a Raleigh
driveway the next morning.
Yeah.
You might not know.
I mean, you've got plenty of flappage.
It's all good.
Yeah.
There's a big, there's a flap just laying
on the guy's driveway.

(27:41):
It happens all the time.
Oh man.
Anyway, I feel like I've been enlightened.
Anyway, so, but long story short, my buddy,
Maverick, my periodontist, he just bought himself a
half of a TBM 850.
So I'll be flying that up with him.
A TBM 850.

(28:01):
Now, now, now you're talking.
All right.
I got to look this up.
Turboprop.
It has stairs.
You don't get in over the wing.
It has stairs.
Oh, you don't have to crawl up over
the.
No, it has stairs.
TBM 850 is a high-performance single-engine
turboprop.
Yeah, that does 300 knots.
That thing's, that thing books.
That's fast.
So you can, you're rated for like, you

(28:23):
can do that one?
He's in it.
He has an instructor's license.
So I can fly, I can fly it
with him next to me.
Yeah, I can fly it.
I can fly it.
It's, but it, it's fast.
You know, it's no joke.
Does it have, is it a pressurized cabin?
Yes, it does.
Of course.
So we'll go up to.
So you can go high.
Yeah, we probably, going to Dallas, we'll probably

(28:45):
go up to 13, 15,000 feet.
Oh, that sounds fun.
Yeah.
And it'll take, it'll take 40 minutes, you
know, instead of five and a half hours
drive.
I'm looking at it.
This must be like planes for sale or
something.
Yeah, that's a, that's a cool looking.

(29:07):
How many people can it see?
Six passengers, two pilots, six passengers, single pilot
IFR.
So you can fly it by yourself without
a co-pilot.
Can reach a max altitude of 31,000.
Oh yeah, you can get way up there.
Yeah.
Then you can really, really, you can really
book and get really fast.
Um, man, this that's terribly impressed.

(29:29):
Priced from as low as 1.8 million.
Yeah, for a, for a banger.
That's the, that's the entry model.
It's the basic model.
That's a banger model.
Well, I mean, you, it all depends on
what equipment you have.
What, uh, what instrumentation?
I mean, all this stuff is glass.
These things fly themselves.
That's the beauty of it.
It flies itself.
But there's no fun in that.

(29:50):
So you hand fly a lot anyway.
So yes, I'll be going to podcast movement.
There we go.
Nice.
Yeah, well, there we go.
Um, I think the, uh, the big conversation
in, uh, over on, I know you're not
be happy.
You're not a member of the, uh, podcast
discourse hub on WhatsApp.
Oh, I really don't want to be in

(30:11):
the, whatever that is.
No, but, um, interesting conversations.
Um, you know, man, I have such heart
for the, for the hosting companies.
What a business that is, you know, the
amount of churn that they have to deal
with people who come in, especially if you
have a free tier, everyone's starting a free
tier and then they just die off and

(30:33):
don't do anything.
And, you know, so basically it ate up
resources, you know, that you never get paid
for.
Um, but the, but the big talk is
HLS video or HLS, I guess, in general,
audio and video.
Have you kept up with, uh, with these
conversations?
Uh, no, I got, um, I got an
email, uh, from Kevin over at Buzzsprout saying

(30:56):
that, uh, they're going to be talking about
some stuff in the, in the, in the
namespace.
Um, in the namespace, are they going to
sit in the namespace repo?
Oh, in the repo.
Just sit in the namespace and just have
her ever look at blockchain cook marshmallows or
we're here in the namespace.
I'm not, I've been, I've been so focused

(31:16):
on the, uh, getting the images tag.
I really haven't paid any attention to any
conversation that's happened.
Yeah.
Well, um, they're all looking at it and,
uh, um, a fountain already eats it, which
is good.
And I, I think they're doing, uh, you
know, with the fountain RSS blue gold bundle

(31:37):
package hosting, uh, I think they're, they're going
to be serving HLS video.
That would make a lot of sense if
they have both ends of it.
And I'm pretty sure that Sam Sethi is,
I think he's, you know, he's going to
be doing, he's going to do the full
end to end too.
He's going to do hosting as well.
Okay.
Yeah.
I think, yeah, I think I saw that.

(31:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So he's going to do HLS video.
I'm just hoping that it's not like, uh,
you know, the thing is, it's almost like
VHS beta max to me.
You know, just because you can do video
doesn't mean that people will migrate to video
on podcasts.

(32:18):
I'm just not sure that, that that is
the culture anymore.
If it ever was, I mean, sure.
Lots of people have put video into their
podcast feeds.
Um, uh, the new media show has done
it for over a decade.
Uh, I still only listen to audio and
it's always fun listening to audio, uh, then

(32:38):
listening to Todd complain about the video not
working.
Okay.
Um, I'm just not sure, you know, and
I, I appreciate power to them all.
I appreciate it.
But I wish we could put some energy
and dev cycles into some other things.
That's just me.
Um, you know, you're torn.

(33:05):
I can tell.
Well, I mean, I don't know.
Maybe I'm not sure I'm torn.
I'm just like, who knows?
I mean, I, I don't, I don't know
that we can predict anything really.
I mean, I don't, I watch a lot

(33:25):
of you.
I want to, I watch a lot of
YouTube and, and I've been trying to sort
of figure out what exactly it is that
I'm looking for.
When I watch you, when I go to
YouTube.
Porn porn.
Uh, yeah, uh, they see how to, how

(33:50):
to approach this here.
But I listened to a lot of podcasts
and a lot of YouTube and I watch
a lot of YouTube.
And so clearly they're not the same because
I'm doing both.
It's sort of like saying, I watch, I
listened to a lot of music and I
watch a lot of movies.
You're doing two different things right now.

(34:14):
I real, I realized the Venn diagram of
podcasting and YouTube does overlap in a certain
way because there are shows that it's literally
the same content on their podcast as it
is on their YouTube video, just without the,
just with the video removed.

(34:36):
Um, the, so I understood that.
So it's, they're different, but they don't have
to be, uh, excuse me.
They're distinct, they're distinct, but they may not
be necessarily different.
And so that's the way I approached it.
I was like, well, um, I've been trying

(34:58):
to pay attention to what, when I go
to YouTube, what, what am I looking for?
Like, why am I there?
And, and I realized that most of what
I'm there for can fall under two categories.
Um, how to do a thing like an

(35:20):
instruction, instructional type video.
And that would, that's a broad category that
includes not just, uh, hey, I want to,
I want, I want to build a closet
organizer.
How do I do it from scratch?
But also encompasses, um, here's how to use

(35:40):
this new Python library or here's like explainer
videos.
Here's an explanation of the way, uh, larval,
uh, larval 12 works and how you would
upgrade an app from 11 to 12.
And I would presume you're doing that on
desktop because that stuff gets a little too

(36:01):
tiny on the phone.
Yes.
Yes.
I almost, I almost never watch YouTube on
the phone.
Uh, the only time I ever do that
is, um, is if there is a specific
video and I'm under some sort of pressure
to get a piece of content quickly.

(36:22):
And that's all I can find.
I I've paid, I've, I mean, I've paid
a lot of attention.
I've looked very closely at behavior for over
20 years of what people do.
And I find that people who believe they
consume podcasts on YouTube really, uh, aren't, um,

(36:44):
they may get, you know, the whole mechanism
still works differently with what you're, what you're
following, what you're, you know, who you're following,
what you have the alarm bell set for,
et cetera.
So there's a, there's part of the serialized
nature, but what I see.
So Tina is a great example.
She, and she has her phases of Megyn

(37:05):
Kelly.
Megyn Kelly goes in and out.
Megyn Kelly's talking about, you know, the show
business thing.
She may not be that interested, but what
gets pushed to the top often in her
feed or whenever she opens up YouTube will
be clips, shorts and clips from the Megyn
Kelly show.
And she winds up watching 15 minute segments

(37:25):
instead of the whole show.
And I think, I think that that's a
big part of the difference with, uh, with
the YouTube podcasting experience.
Also, you know, so Chad F says, you
know, I'm watching kill Tony.
I think a comedy show, uh, a live
comedy show on stage.
That is, that is so much more when

(37:47):
you have video.
I mean, it, it, a comic, it helps
to see the comic, I would say eight
times out of 10.
And you're going, I agree with that.
And that's much more of a YouTube show.
Now you may consume it like a podcast,
but remember I wrote it on the tablets.
Podcasting is audio.
That's just it.
Now a podcast feed is valid with anything

(38:08):
you put in the enclosure.
I'm okay with that.
I just am not convinced for any reason
that people will be using their podcast apps
to consume video on a regular basis.
I mean, it's great if you have a
feed and you have a Roku app and
people can get it there or something, you

(38:29):
know, something of that nature.
Um, but I think people, I mean, it
may, it may even be that the podcast,
the audio version, I have this myself when
I, you know, for me, it's all serendipity.
I look at my feed.
Oh, there's a new Joe Rogan.
Cause Joe Rogan is never really, um, it's
never really a schedule.
It's like you get three in a row,

(38:50):
then three days of nothing.
And then, you know, one and then two
days later, one, it doesn't really seem to
be rhyme or reason to it.
So I'll see it like, oh, and I'll
start listening.
And if it's a guest that I want
to see, I may switch over to YouTube.
But not on the phone.
You know, then I'll sit at my computer
and then, and I'll sit at my computer.

(39:11):
I'm like, wow, I could be doing so
much more with my life than watching this,
you know?
And so then I'll probably go back to
audio.
So I'm just not convinced.
It's a, it's that important.
I think this is still a remnant of
people believing that YouTube has stolen podcasting far
from it, far from it.
That there's a video I posted in the

(39:32):
boardroom.
The title of it is unhinged rant about
YouTube getting worse.
It was not as unhinged as I was
hoping it would be.
So I was going to pull some clips,
but it just kind of was, it was
kind of unclipable.
So I just, I didn't.
But I mean, what, one of the, one
of the things he talks about in there

(39:53):
is that YouTube is inserting, is turning on
ad, mid-roll ads.
Mm-hmm.
And some, you know, like sometimes you don't
even, you as the, as the channel owner,
creator, don't, they just turn it on without
your knowledge, you know, knowledge of what they
do.
They do it.
Someone does it.
And then you get, yeah.

(40:13):
And then you get 12 mid-rolls in
a, in a 20 minute video.
That's pretty annoying.
And so the, um, so, and that was
the, the other thing is, is AI, um,
AI, AI commenters.
AI videos in general, just type in any
topic and you'll see the first 20 are

(40:35):
all AI generated videos.
Right.
AI voice, AI video.
It's, it's highly annoying.
And so, and he's, he talks about, you
know, this is kind of apropos to what
we were talking about last week with, uh,
with chat, with live chat, AI, um, commenters
in YouTube, in YouTube live chat.

(40:57):
And they just, they get in there and
there's like, he was, he was quoting very
high numbers, you know, like 80% of
the YouTube live chat is just AI bots
now.
Oh, really?
You can, yeah, you can tell because they
all use the same avatars.
They're all like avatars of like hot chicks.
Oh, how annoying.
Yeah.
He said, you can, you can disable three

(41:19):
different avatar.
He said, you can block three different avatars
and you get rid of like 80%
of your comments all at once.
They're all using the same avatars, but, um,
I mean, so this, this is all, and
so there, so how do you, how do
you interpret that?
I mean, one thing you can say, one,

(41:40):
one thing that's obvious to me is that
part of this is at least because YouTube
is free.
Well, if I can just say, I will
wager that unleashing bots on your own live
chat or on your chat, regardless of whether
it's live or not, I will wager that
pushes you up in the algorithm.

(42:00):
That's the reason why they're doing it.
Oh, you're probably right.
Engagement.
Yeah.
And because I got, I got some very
interesting messages from people about the talk we
had about, um, basically chat in live or
chat in general.
Uh, one of them was from, uh, Rob

(42:20):
from Focus.
Hmm.
And he says, you know, we're not live,
but we're so interested in being able to
have.
And he, I, the feeling I got from
him, cause it was just a text message
back and forth was because everyone understands the,
uh, everyone understands the moderation issue.
The last thing you want is to have
to go in and moderate, you know, comments

(42:42):
on a show.
Oh, awful.
But when it's an ephemeral chat, man, that's
so great.
Cause it scrolls, it scrolls and it's gone.
Like that horrible thing someone said is gone.
It just goes away.
It's more about the audience, the live studio
audience being able to interact with the person
if they're doing it live and with each

(43:02):
other when they're just watching it.
And I don't see a need for it
to be comments that stay there forever.
You know, I was like, ah, I also
find that highly annoying.
I won't go, Rogan won't look at his
comments.
He says, I don't look at comments.
Why?
They only get me mad.
That's absolutely the case.
Yeah.
I mean, the, it's, if you have, if

(43:27):
you have a free platform like YouTube, you,
you're going to get that kind of stuff.
But the one thing that I could, you
know, the one thing that podcasting has going
for it is that it's not free.
Right.
I mean, to, to have a podcast, you
have to pay somebody most of the time,
you know, Spotify, Spotify for creators slash anchor.

(43:50):
That's, that's the exception.
Um, you know, they're willing to, you know,
under, so underwrite the freeness of that platform,
but then they also suffer for it because
they've got millions of spam feeds bull crap
on there that are just garbage.
So they're, they're paying the price for that.
But if you're, if you're, you know, if

(44:10):
you want to do a podcast and have
your, you know, 90% of the time
you have to pay a hosting fee.
Yeah.
And if you're going to be hosting a
video podcast, you're going to have to pay
a higher hosting fee more.
Yeah.
So if you're paying $50 a month, like
the signal to noise ratio within the video
podcasting realm would be very high.

(44:31):
You would hope it would be.
I mean, like, it's not cause I mean,
that's a high barrier to entry for spammers.
Um, well, but, but, but yeah, but, but
yes, but there's no benefit to the spamming.
There's no algorithm that's going to rank you
higher anywhere just because you have more people
chatting.
It's still free for users to chat and

(44:51):
they can still do whatever they want to
do there.
But the incentive model is clearly, is just
clearly, uh, monetary based upon more engagement in
your content.
That's the same thing is happening to Spotify.
I was watching, uh, what's that guy who
breaks down music all the time?

(45:12):
Older guy in the studio.
I like him a lot.
Oh, Rick Beato.
Beato.
Beato.
Is that his name?
I think so.
Yeah.
I'm pretty sure you're the white hair guy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, so he says, you know, look at
what's happening with, with Spotify.
There's all these fake bands that appear and
they have, you know, they even have videos

(45:34):
they've got, you know, band shots, cover album
art, and they're completely 100% AI.
And, you know, and they have hundreds of
thousands, if not millions of listens.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and I, you know what, they're real
listens.
Uh, but, but all that money goes directly
to Spotify because Spotify, as far as I'm

(45:55):
concerned, I have no proof.
Spotify is behind most of this.
This is all about the royalties and I'm
sure they get better placement.
You know, they'll push that, they'll push that
ahead.
Well, that's what some, I think, uh, I
forgot what channel it is.
I may have been on Rick Beata's channel
a couple of years ago.
That's, he was describing the phenomenon of you
start, you search for a specific artist and

(46:16):
start to listen to them.
And then, um, when it auto, when it
goes into its autoplay form where it starts
to give you other things, it's always stuff
you've never heard of before.
Yeah.
Like I hate, I hate, I hate to
do this to you, Dave.
Can you give me 45 seconds while I
go check my brisket?

(46:36):
Yeah.
I'm really sorry.
Yeah.
Wrap it, wrap it.
It's 4th of July, man.
Just, just, just, I just got to stick
the thermometer in.
I'll be back in 45 seconds.
Hold on.
I'm back.
How's the brisket?
183 and I need to go up to
182.
So it's perfect.
Perfect timing.
You pulling at 182?

(46:57):
Yeah.
192, 192.
Uh, a one, yeah.
One, I thought 182 seemed a little low
or, yeah, you don't go all the way
to 205.
No, no.
Listen to Chad F.
Oh, this is Dave's solo show.
The one we've always wanted.
I promise you don't want that show.
Thanks, Chad.
That's not a show anybody wants.
I feel so loved.
I feel so loved.

(47:19):
Um, I just, I mean, so this is
my mixed feeling about, about this is I,
I don't want, I, I feel like it
will not succeed, but at the same time.
What are you, what are you talking?
Are you still on?
What are you talking about?
Yeah.
Video podcast.

(47:39):
Yes.
I feel like, I feel like video podcasts
are not really going to succeed as a
thing, but at the same time, I want
to see them try it.
Like I just have a, I have a
dual sort of have two things in my
head at the same time.
I want to see people try, because I
may be wrong.

(47:59):
Yeah.
It may be a smash hit.
I don't think it will be, but it
may.
It could be.
It could be.
I mean, it's possible.
I mean, what I was saying earlier is
that, you know, that you've got that how
to type video and then you've also got
sort of pure entertainment that requires a visual

(48:22):
component.
Yeah, sure.
Like television.
Yeah, but it's a specific type of television.
Like it's, it's more like, um, oh man,
how would you describe?
So like one thing I like to do
is I like to put on, uh, there's

(48:45):
a class, there's sort of a, there's a,
a guy that does what they call silent
hikes.
I don't know if you've seen that kind
of thing, but it's, um, it's basically just
a, he'll, he'll go, he'll go backpacking in
beautiful places in the area on earth.
And then, but there just won't be any,
any talking.

(49:05):
It's just him.
It's almost like a documentary of him just
going through these beautiful places and showing, you
know, it's just a day in the life
of him.
Sounds like a great audio podcast.
I mean, it would be completely useless as
audio, but I like to put that on
like over in a off screen.
I can't, I can't have words when I

(49:27):
work.
No, I can't.
It's so distracting.
So podcasts are out while I'm, while I'm
actually doing any kind of real work, a
podcast or not.
I mean, I mean like coding or, or,
or it work, I can't concentrate.
So I like to put on something that
is just sort of like a background noise.
And occasionally I'll just look, I'll look over

(49:47):
at it and just have, you know, a
moment.
I'll have a moment and, uh, and it's
nice.
But that just, and it would be nice
to have a video like that as a
podcast.
Well, I think the bottom line is it
still comes down to screen size.

(50:08):
The content that works on video on mobile
is going to be a podcast that you
could watch or just listen to.
It's going to be something that is very
specific for like talking heads, talking heads or
dancing.
I think TikTok basically, if you look at
TikTok, you know, it's, it's all the camera

(50:30):
shots, it's all mid to close.
Um, or it may, it may zoom out
for dancing, you know, stuff like that.
Uh, but it's just for storytelling, et cetera.
You're going to watch that on, on a
computer or on your television screen.
I just don't see it as a, as
a great mobile experience, except for the doom

(50:53):
scrolling of TikTok, you know, people like, hi
everybody.
I didn't, I really didn't want to talk
about this, but I've got to tell you
my dog died and you know, and all
that kind of stuff.
Um, it's personality driven, you know, one person
sitting right in the middle of the screen,
uh, makeup tips.
Maybe that would work.
The other, well, the other part of this,

(51:14):
that's a, this sort of, um, seems to
me to be an unsolvable problem, uh, is
that, well, maybe that's not the right, maybe
unsolvable.
It's not the right way to say it.
Um, let me, let me just describe what
I'm thinking.
So that, that second, okay.

(51:35):
So that first class of video, you're, you're
doing a, a, a sort of a how
to type, here's how this thing works video,
right?
That naturally lends itself to like baked in
post reads for advertising.
The second type of video where you're watching
some sort of like documentary or more like
film style thing that really doesn't know.

(51:57):
I mean, you don't want to be mid
rolls, kill that experience.
It takes you completely out of it.
You're, it's not a good experience for the
watcher.
And so that's going to be, so you're
going to have, and the way YouTube does
that is they monetize those videos back to
the creator of the video with a revenue

(52:19):
share from YouTube premium subscribers.
Though that sort of setup doesn't work, doesn't
exist in podcasting where you have subscribers to,
right.
And to the entire platform that's called podcasting,
you have individual apps and that's, that's the
individual apps, true fan, true fans, a fountain,

(52:43):
a podcast guru, you know, the, these individual
apps that allow for a funding tag and
that kind of thing.
Those would have to really become the drivers
of these because you would have, that's the
only way you're going to be able to

(53:03):
monetize those videos.
I just don't think advertising for a video
like that in a podcast is even really
going to work that well.
I don't know.
It's just hard.
It's a hard nut to crack, but I
do want, I want to see them try.
I want, I want to be proven wrong
about this.
And you know, fountain has just enabled pure

(53:24):
Fiat V4V in their app.
So I didn't know that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Oscar ping me about it.
And cause you know, with Korean, the keeper
is doing the test for that.
It's actually pretty successful.
Yeah.
And so, you know, if you're using fountain,
you can just tap on it and you
can put in any amount you want and
send it off V4V and it goes direct

(53:44):
to our Stripe account.
And I said, well, that'd be great if
I could use it on a no agenda.
He says, you know, we're going to figure
out how to get that into the, how
you can put that into the funding tag.
Okay.
I'm all for it.
Great.
I wish we did more with the funding
tag.
I really do.
Oh, it's critical.
It's it's critical.

(54:04):
And it's the way it's the way if,
if, if, if video podcasting is going to
work, the fund, the funding tag has to
be part.
That's a very good point.
Yeah.
A very good point.
They are linked.
Yeah.
In my opinion.
And it works so well when you have
it in the app.
I mean, and we currently keeper still gets
the majority of people sending booster grams.

(54:29):
But, and, and, you know, of course it
screws it up because, you know, now you're
not reading it in the same place.
You got to go somewhere else to look
if someone's in a note, but all that,
I think we'll get integrated eventually.
But Nathan's right.
And Nathan's right.
It's between funding L402 alternate enclosures chat.
I think someone could build a Twitch like
hosting consumption experience.
Yeah.
Yeah.

(54:49):
Well, I think that's what Fountain is going
to try.
Yeah.
I mean, TrueFans kind of has already built.
TrueFans already built it.
Yeah.
Once they get their app, the world will
change.
Um, I think, didn't they release in the
app store?
They're out of beta, right?
Right.
I don't have the, I, I was told
I was going to get on the Android

(55:10):
beta, but I haven't seen it.
Maybe they're not, maybe I got a notice
about it, but maybe they're just open beta
and not invite only now or something.
I'll have to go back and look.
Um, but the, uh, the images tag there,
the image tag, that's, that's formal now it's

(55:31):
in the namespace.
Oh, good.
And what do we need to know?
That's done.
That's done.
Finally.
It only took a year, but it's done.
Um, I mean, how, how should I go
over it?
Should I mean, I'm sure we're all familiar
with it, but.

(55:51):
Um, made a cut, let's see, I made
a couple of, I thought you were going
to do a blog post about it.
Oh, I am for sure.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah, definitely.
Uh, let me see where to, where to
kind of start on this.
Um, oh yeah.
So true fans is on the app store.
Nice.
Yeah.
I thought they were in, I thought they
were open now.

(56:12):
Uh, so the, the difference, oh, is that
right?
Nathan, did you, yeah, you did a video
of it.
Yeah.
So Nick, so Nathan came through, uh, Nathan
Gathwright, the, the author of this, of this
tag, a few things here.
Let's let's, let's explain this.

(56:33):
Um, Nathan is primary author of this tag
and he came through a couple of days
ago with a demo page that is linked
to in the namespace on this tag.
And I'm trying a couple of things differently
here.
Um, let me go over to it image.

(56:55):
Yeah, there we go.
Let me paste it in copy, think paste.
All right.
So the, the tag has, um, a link
in it to this demo tool for lack
of a better term that, that Nathan built.
So you can click, you can click out

(57:17):
to that, to that tool and then you
can pick, you can upload images and then
it doesn't really upload.
I think it just all in browser, but
you can select images and then it will
lay it, it will, it'll show you mock
-ups of the various images and the way
they're going to look in different formats.

(57:37):
Uh, and then you can click the code
button and it'll show you the XML for
the podcast image tag that you need to
use in your feed.
I'm putting this on the show notes.
So you, you can essentially play around with

(57:58):
different, with different looks and then get the
code, get the XML for what you're trying
to do, which makes this.
Oh, that's really, yeah.
That's very cool.
Yeah.
Very cool.
Now it's not exhaustive because this is a
big tag that has a lot, you know,
that has a million different use case scenarios.

(58:20):
So it's not exhaustive.
The tool itself is not exhaustive, but it
will, it will get you started.
Yeah.
I'm putting that in the show notes as
well.
Cool.
And there's tons of examples in the name,
in the tag, uh, the tag write up.
Uh, showing everything from just very simple all
the way up to, you know, like the

(58:42):
most complicated example of purposes and aspect ratios
and everything, video and all this.
Um, so let me just run, let me
just run down.
So this, the podcast image tag, it can
exist in the channel.
So that means it would apply to the
entire feed.
Mm-hmm.

(59:03):
It can exist in an item, meaning it
is at the, at the episode level, or
it can exist in a podcast live item.
Um, the, there can be multiple obviously, because
that's what, that's one of the, uh, the
superpowers of this tag is that it can,
uh, so let me, let me pause going

(59:26):
back to, um, Tom, Tom, Tom Webster made
a comment and I'm not throwing him under
the bus here.
I'm just, I just go ahead.
He just, I just want to, I just
want to call out this line of thinking
for a second.
Cause I think, I think there was a
miss.
This has been part of the problem with
why it took this tag so long to

(59:46):
come to fruition.
He just made an offhand comment.
He said, well, you know, we should be
focusing on blah, blah, blah.
Rather than a duplicative image tag, meaning that
we already have one from the iTunes namespace.
Why are we doing this again?
So, and again, I just wanted to use
that as an example of this.

(01:00:08):
You get this similar sentiment sometimes.
So, uh, the reason that this tag is
not duplicative.
It's expanded.
It's expanded.
It's expanditative.
Yes.
Um, so this, this tag, we would not

(01:00:30):
be doing this if it just simply duplicated
something that already existed.
That's, that's of no value.
So this has much higher, uh, levels of
use than just the, the iTunes image tag.
So the iTunes namespace image tag has one

(01:00:52):
attribute, href.
That is a link to the image.
That image is assumed to be one-to
-one aspect ratio square, uh, you know, square.
And it's assumed to conform to Apple's documented

(01:01:13):
spec.
Now we, we all know that people do
not adhere to this, but that's what it's
supposed to be.
That's what the assumptions are.
And people by, by Apple spec, it's gotta
be at least 1400 by 1400 and they
recommend 3000 by 3000 pixels.

(01:01:35):
Right.
People put all kinds of nonsense.
By the way, if you don't do 3000
by 3000, it may not get published.
Okay.
This, so, and so, you know, and Apple
has to deal with this.
They, in their system, they, you know, flag
you as not, you know, not being up

(01:01:56):
to the spec and this kind of thing.
But because of, because, so they can do
that.
They can give you errors and deny you
from being listed because they're Apple.
Other apps just take whatever that tag gives
them and they just have to do the

(01:02:16):
best they can because they can't just, they
can't just not display the image and say
error or something like that because they're going
to get a, they're going to get an
email from the podcaster saying, Hey, my image
is not showing.
And then they're going to have to go
through this long back and forth of support
emails saying, well, it's because it's not 1400
by 1400.
You're holding it wrong.

(01:02:37):
You're holding it wrong.
So apps are just regular podcast apps that
are not Apple are just stuck with doing
the best they can.
Um, the, so that's, that's the way the
image tag currently exists.
That's the way we do images and podcasting.

(01:03:00):
Some apps support the, the bear RSS 2
.0 image tag, which is the silliest tag
I've ever seen in my life, but they,
some do support it.
Um, that's, and that's fine, but it is
of no value here.

(01:03:21):
It's a silly tag.
Um, so that left us with that left
us with, how do you get, uh, how
do you provide different types of images that
are not just square to a podcast, to
podcast apps and platforms?

(01:03:42):
There's lots of, of needs for this.
Um, one is, uh, has been clearly demonstrated
by Russell Harrower at pod two.
Um, down under who created an early version
of this tag called the banner tag.
He was trying to allow for banner images

(01:04:05):
and, uh, just, you know, non-square or
something, you know, four to one, something like
that.
16 by nine, that kind of thing.
And so he, you know, he sort of
forged this path.
And we tried this with the images tag,
uh, early on as well to try to

(01:04:26):
allow for multiple image sizes to be done
that, you know, that went nowhere, uh, and
was highly criticized.
And so we've tried this a few times
and we, uh, Nathan finally cracked the code
when he wrote the image spec for the
new image tag.

(01:04:48):
The image tag has, as its base use
case, it's identical and fully replaceable for the
iTunes image tag.
You can have a podcast colon image tag
with just an href attribute, and it's expected
to work exactly the same as the iTunes
image tag, right?
Whenever we have a tag that duplicates a

(01:05:11):
base level of functionality with another namespace, it,
in my more than opinion, my strong opinion,
it has to be at least backwards compatible
with that base use case.
You have to be able to drop it
in and it just function exactly the same.
The, uh, that's just, that's just so coders

(01:05:33):
and, and platform developers can just keep their
sanity.
So now you say, okay, we've got that
base level of use case covered.
Let's go up the chain here.
What, what else is needed?
So the first attribute that was, that was
added was alt, just like HTML.

(01:05:54):
It's an excessive accessibility function.
It allows you to put in some alternate
text if the image cannot be displayed for
some reason, or if the person can't see
it, it's all fine.
Aspect ratio is the next attribute it's recommended.
And it just defines a aspect ratio value.

(01:06:15):
So it's using slash notation.
So one slash one, 16 slash nine, four
slash one.
Um, he made it match CSS syntax.
So CSS has an aspect ratio, uh, idea
in it, and it uses that syntax.
So we're just, we're just following things that

(01:06:37):
are familiar to everyone.
Um, so let's say you wanted to provide
two different wide images, a 16 by nine
and a four and a four by one.
Great.
Do it.
Put two image tags to put two podcast
image tags in your feed, a 16 by
nine and a four and a four by

(01:06:58):
one.
Done.
Easy as pie.
Now width is the net width and height
are also attributes that are, that are possible
in this tag.
And we've gone down this road before.
Okay.
So we, we've talked about, um, we've talked

(01:07:19):
about width and height as being proscriptive or
descriptive.
Ooh, what does that even mean?
Well, you know, Well descriptive, I understand.
Proscriptive?
Well, so what you're saying is, so imagine
how the way HTML works, you have an

(01:07:43):
image tag in HTML, the image tag is
not telling you, the image tag is not,
it specifies, it specifies a URL going that
leads you to the image, but in the
image tag has a width and height attribute,
but the width and height, they're not telling
you how wide and how tall the image

(01:08:03):
is at the source.
It's telling you how, what width and height
to display the image at.
So you can point it at a, at
a square image and then give it a
width and height that are not square.
And it's going to skew the image in
the browser.
You're, you're, you are prescriptively telling the browser,

(01:08:24):
show this image at this pixel height and
this pixel width.
And it can, it doesn't, the browser never
cares how wide or how tall that source
image is.
It's going to do what you tell it
to and it's going to squish it and
make it look funny if it's, if it's
wrong.

(01:08:46):
So that's not what we're doing here.
We're not saying, here's how to display it.
We're saying, here's what the image is.
So this is not a prescriptive height and
width attribute.
This is a descriptive height and width attribute

(01:09:06):
saying, saying when you, hey, hey, podcast app,
this image I just told, gave you an
href for, it's this wide and it's this
tall.
It's describing it.
And so then that, and that is much
better in this case because, because RSS is

(01:09:30):
not meant as a display markup language.
It's meant as a data exchange language.
XML describes data.
It doesn't tell you how to show it.
XSL tells you how to show it.
That's a style sheet layered on top of
XML.

(01:09:51):
But XML itself doesn't, doesn't do that.
So that's a, that's kind of a critical
distinction there.
That's why iTunes, the iTunes image tag itself
doesn't have a height and width is because
their documentation says it's supposed to be square.
So they don't, they don't care because you

(01:10:11):
like, that's not what it's for.
So because this, the width is recommended, not
required.
And it's because of what I just described
as to why it's not required.
Because you've already got an aspect ratio that

(01:10:33):
you can define and that's all you need.
Because again, it's not, this is not a
display function.
I hope that all makes sense.
It's a little cumbersome to explain.
No, I mean, I get it.
I get it.
Okay.
So the type is the next attribute.

(01:10:56):
And it just describes what type of media
this is.
Is it an, is it a JPEG?
Is it a PNG?
Is it a video like MP4?
So you can have motion, you know, you
can have motion assets here.
You can have a moving background or something
on a banner.
But you have to say that.
And it's optional because most of the time,

(01:11:20):
if it's a standard image type, like a
JPEG or a PNG, most of the time,
I mean, most, most web views and browsers
and that kind of thing can figure that
out on the fly.
But if it's anything out of the, if
it's anything just even slightly non-universal, like
a TIFF or a GIF or a MP4

(01:11:42):
or something, you want to provide a MIME
type to give a hint to the app
or the platform.
So there's that.
Then finally is the, the, the thing that
is, the wildest part of this, of this
spec, but also the absolutely the most powerful.

(01:12:02):
And the thing that I'm just like, I
love the most about it is the purpose
attribute.
Yeah.
This is the one, this is where it
all comes together for me.
Yeah.
And, and let me just describe, let me,
let me describe the attribute as it's written
in the spec.
It's an unordered set of case-insensitive, space
-separated tokens following the W3C syntax, which we

(01:12:26):
link to.
This value should not exceed 128 characters.
This allows podcasters to indicate the suggested use
of this media.
The reason, okay, so the reason this is
so powerful, well, let me read from the
notes section.
It says the purpose type for the purpose
attribute.
I should rename that.

(01:12:47):
Actually, I think that's bad wording.
The purpose attribute is encouraged to provide an
expected use case to app developers as a
display hint.
Why was this podcast image included in the
feed?
What did the podcast creator intend to be
done with it?
Is a particular app or platform media asset
being targeted?
See a fuller explanation of the purpose attribute.

(01:13:07):
So, and then there's a whole section on
purpose tokens.
So this thing says, the purpose attribute says,
all right, I have a specific, you're not
just saying, okay, here's this, hey, hey, here's

(01:13:28):
this, hey world, here's a four by one
image.
Okay, great.
I mean, I appreciate that.
But what, I mean, I, what am I
supposed to do?
That's great.
I mean, thanks.
It's the purpose thing.
The purpose attribute goes one step further and
says, this four by one image I just

(01:13:49):
gave you is meant to be this thing.
For instance, social is one of the tokens
recommended for social preview images.
So when you, when you link to a
podcast on X, it can, this can be
the OG, the open graph image that comes
in.

(01:14:10):
Circular is one that Daniel came, you know,
has to be put in there, recommended for
images that are expected to be cropped like
as a full circle.
So that you can define, you can define
this image as like circle safe, you know,
where you, where you say, okay, this image,
if you, if you make it into a

(01:14:30):
full circle and cut all the corners off,
it's still going to be fine.
So there's these different use cases that you
can give.
And the one, the one that's most relevant,
I guess the most recent recently is the,
the, the Apple showcase hero image.

(01:14:53):
And we, I think we talked about that
maybe two weeks ago, where you can have,
they, they have a specific, they have a
specific image sizing requirement for what they call
a showcase hero image.
And that will, if you put that in
there, you're more like, I think the description

(01:15:14):
was, you're more likely to be a featured
podcast because you have more complete and better
artwork.
So you can include this, this type of
image into your, into your feed and give,
you're essentially giving this image to Apple and

(01:15:34):
everyone else for them to use.
And everybody, because that purpose is in there,
we all then by default know what it
is.
Yeah.
This is going to be a four by
one or I don't know what the spec
says, but well, actually, let me open it
up because we link straight to it.
This is going to be a, yes, four
by one image, 43 specifications are 4320 by

(01:15:57):
1080, Photoshop, layered PSD, Photoshop document.
So which should be ignore, ignore on my,
on the, on the app side.
Right.
So you should, so this, this is a
way for you to provide a funk, you

(01:16:18):
know, just a very specific funky type of
image for a single app's use.
And then if other apps want to pick
it up, they can and use that same
thing.
So this, this is to me, the most

(01:16:39):
powerful part of this spec.
And I think you can have multi, you
can have as many of these in there
as you want.
And I expect what's going to happen is
over time, we will develop, um, we will,

(01:17:01):
we will develop a set of use, um,
usage guidelines around this.
We can't dictate any of that stuff, obviously.
Right.
We can't say, well, here's how you're going
to, you know, here's how you got to
do this.
And here's how you got to do that.
I mean, we can, we can put some,
some sort of specification guardrails on it, but

(01:17:23):
it has to sort of evolve over time
as people begin to use things like the
social purpose, um, and the canvas and, you
know, episode artworks and that kind of thing.
It will take, and, and then guidance from
platforms like Apple, Spotify, you know, uh, and,

(01:17:44):
uh, smaller platforms, you know, like Pocket Cast,
True Fans, Fountain, you know, it, it will,
this thing will evolve over time so that
hosts then have a more clear idea of
what to do in the feed.
Um, but I think, I think this, this
tag took a very long time to develop.

(01:18:05):
Um, I, I'm very thankful to Nathan for
tackling this and for, uh, James and everybody
keeping with it and, and just, you know,
and, and not just throwing their hands up
and not, you know, in, in staying, staying
with the program.

(01:18:26):
And I think, I mean, it feels really
good to get this thing shipped.
I think it's a great, I think it's
a great piece of work.
Good work, everybody.
Yay.
Hold on a second.
I'm looking for my, uh, my favorite jingle.
Yeah.
And you're looking for the horn.
No, no, no, no, no.
I'm looking for, looking for this one.

(01:18:47):
Oh, there's no winning.
We don't like to foster a competitive atmosphere,
but we laugh a lot.
Now everyone hug and share a secret.
Yay.
Share a secret, everybody.
That's great.
Yeah.
So I mean, I feel really good about
this.
I like it.
And as soon as I have it in
sovereign feeds, I'm going to be using this
stuff.
I want to publish with it for sure.

(01:19:09):
Uh, what I hope, so let me talk
about my desires.
Oh, it's in your DNA.
My desire is that we get some guidance
from the big, from the bigger players about,

(01:19:32):
about how they expect hosting companies to use
this tag.
Yeah.
That would be ideal.
Yeah.
So if, if Apple, Spotify, whoever can come
out and say, okay, if you want a
showcase hero image or a channel banner or

(01:19:52):
something like this, if you want these, these
things in to show up in your feed,
uh, to show up in your, in your
podcast on our platform, here's how to use
this.
Here's, here's what you need to put in
this tag.
And if they do that, oh man, that
would be awesome.
Wouldn't it?
Genius.
It's just, it's just pure bliss.

(01:20:13):
This is something I think that Apple could
really get behind this because they're all about
the aesthetics.
Oh, totally.
They're all about it.
And I, and by the way, uh, it's
not 3000 by 3000, 1400 by 1400 is
the minimum requirement for Apple.
And thank you, Ted.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you, Ted.
Because so many times, because you know, I'm

(01:20:34):
still a sovereign feeds user.
I'm, I think I'll always be a sovereign
feeds user.
And so, you know, I have to, I
have three different image sizes and I copy
paste it into sovereign feeds.
And from time to time, I put the,
uh, the 512 by the 512 into the
feed image and Ted Hossman, I think he
literally sits there at Apple.
I'm like, oh, there's Curry again, but he

(01:20:55):
approves it.
And then sends me an email, say, dude,
can you please fix it?
What he does is he's hooked into pod
ping so that he sees when you post
the show and he gets the bad signal
on his phone to check the image.
He's like, oh, let me check Curry's at
work.
Let me see if he did any good.
Yeah.
I really appreciate that.
Um, because you know, you, you can easily
publish walk away and then you come back
to your Twitter timelines, like right.

(01:21:21):
But think about it.
Think how wonderful it would be to be
able to upload banner and different kinds of
images that Apple could make it look really
good on their, um, uh, on their app.
Yeah.
It could be a game changer.
Oh, it's game changer.
And the other breaking.
And the other, uh, the other thing that
I'm doing for the first time in this,

(01:21:43):
in this, uh, formal formalization process for this
tag is putting in the credits of who
authored and contributed to the development of the
task.
Very nice.
Uh, and that, so that's at the bottom
of the tag, uh, spec and, uh, lists
like this one lists, uh, Nathan Gates, right.
As the author, I think it's Gathwright.

(01:22:06):
I always say Gates for some reason.
Gathwright as the author, uh, Russell Harrower, James
Cridlin, and Daniel J.
Lewis as contributors.
And, and I want, so, so that I
need to go to the next step here.
These, the credits need to be in all
of the tags.
I would like every tag to have a

(01:22:26):
credit section so that everybody gets the credit
that they deserve for their contributions.
And as a bonus, we'll send you a
badge you can put on your website, which
links back to us.
Uh, yeah.
Do you remember that top 5% badge?
Uh-huh.
I remember all that stuff.
Like the...
Congratulations.
You're now a top 5% website.

(01:22:46):
Put this badge on your website.
Then it's back to us.
Link back to us, links back to us
for all our Google juice or what, no,
Alta Vista at the time.
Yeah.
This is such a cheesy way to get
backlinks.
Okay, good.
Are you monitoring the, uh, Bristol?
We're at 190, so I've got two degrees
to go.
Oh, you're, you're about to, you're about to
have to run out and do, uh, pull.

(01:23:08):
I do have some good news.
Um, I discovered, uh, the problem with my
memory.
Uh, B12?
No.
Huh?
No.
Uh, I guess I had installed Postman under
Snap.
Snap, Snap is your first problem.

(01:23:29):
Postman is the second problem.
And I never, you know, I don't know
why.
I installed Postman, but I know I could
only install Postman on the server.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Cause you know, you were like, Hey, just
get Postman for your API.
I'm like, okay, I'll get Postman for my
API.
And I put it in and then I
realized, oh, uh, this is a headless server

(01:23:50):
and this is a, a graphical user interface.
So I just, I forgot about it.
It was probably sitting there trying to open
up a, a screen display and Snapd was
just running.
Everyone's running a muck.
Oh, well, I can tell you that Postman
has had memory leaks for its entire existence.

(01:24:10):
If I leave it up on my machine
running for a couple of weeks, I will
run, I will run a 32 gig workstation
out of room.
Well, so literally I got back a full
gig the minute I disabled it.
Yay.
Nice.
There used to be a, there used to
be a, uh, there used to be a,

(01:24:31):
an IT joke that's back in the Novel
Network days that, uh, nope.
Uh, was it, uh, you can solve any
problem by uninstalling the Novel Network client.
Except for your networking.
Yeah, right.
You can, you can fix any problem by
uninstalling Snap or whatever you do.
Yeah.
All right.
So, uh, why don't we wrap this up

(01:24:52):
and, uh, thank some, uh, some of our
boosters.
I will start with our, um, uh, with
our live boosters, uh, uh, Martin Lindeskog.
He's just been on a tear.
Happy Independence Day sent via TrueFans iOS app.
Oh yeah, there we go.
I think that's the first one from the,
from the app.
Nice.
Uh, 1776, another 1776 Liberty boost.

(01:25:14):
I got a network error.
So I try again and he sent that
twice.
So thank you.
It's working.
And another 1776.
Thank you, Martin.
I don't know if it's intentional, but we
appreciate it.
And he says happy Independence Day.
Again, Cole McCormick, McCormick with 1000 sats.
He says, I pretty much grew up on
YouTube.
Oh man, I feel so old.

(01:25:34):
I grew up with faces of death on
VHS.
Uh, yeah.
Been paying for premium for a long time.
And you guys should check out the channel
BOG.
This guy makes what I would describe as
software experience documentaries.
Highly entertaining videos of a guy installing software
he's never used before and figuring out how
to use it like postman.
Exactly.

(01:25:54):
Beautiful.
Salty crayon.
1776.
Howdy boardroom.
Happy 249th.
America.
UK will be at work all day today.
Five by five in the pipe.
That's right.
And there's the delimiter.
So over to you, Dave.
Uh, we check, check this out.
$500 from transistor.

(01:26:15):
Oh, transistor.
Wow.
Well, thank you very much.
That's highly appreciated.
Wow.
I don't think, I don't think they've ever
donated before.
That is highly appreciated.
Just in case.
Wow.
Thanks guys.
Yeah.

(01:26:35):
Uh, they, uh, included a message, a gift
from your friends at transistor.fm. Thanks for
all the hard work you do behind the
scenes.
Wow.
Thank you very much.
That, that means a lot.
It really does.
Uh, let's see, we got, um, these are,
these are mixed up because I didn't write
them down for, uh, Chad Pharaoh, $20, 22
cents.
Thank you, Chad.
Appreciate you, brother.
Uh, Cameron Rose, $25.

(01:26:57):
Thank you, Cameron.
Kevin Bay, $5.
Uh, Mark Graham, $1.
Podpage.
That's Brendan in the, in the girls and
boys.
I'm a, I'm a pod page user, man.
I love pod page.
It just works.
It just works.
Martin Lindeskog over at the new media.
That's $1.

(01:27:18):
Um, oh, there's a, there's a, we could
not, uh, process your recurring payment.
They'll skip that one.
Um, John McDermott, $4 and 76 cents.
Thank you.
Thank you, John.
Appreciate that.
Uh, oh, Oscar Mary, $200.
Thank you, Oscar.
Oh, we got a, that's a baller.

(01:27:40):
Hold on a second.
It's a baller shot.
Carla 20 is blazed on the Impala.
Uh, thank you, brother.
Oscar over there.
Fountain.
Yes, very, very kind.
Mercy buckets.
Joseph Morocco, $5.
Oh, and that's it.
Yeah, that's it for the PayPal's.
We got some, uh, booster grams.

(01:28:01):
Let me resort this so I can go
old to new here.
Um, oh, Caspian.
I haven't heard from, we haven't heard from
Cass in a while.
That has been, has been a bit.
Yeah.
Is that, is that Dutch for cheese?
Cass.
Yeah.
K-A-S is Dutch for cheese.

(01:28:22):
What, what is the Dutch word for vacuum
cleaner, by the way?
Stofzuiger.
Yeah.
Stuff sucker, right?
Something like that.
Stuff sucker.
Yeah.
Stofzuiger.
And that kind of what that means?
It means a dust sucker.
Okay.
I love how literal Dutch is.
Dust sucker.
What is that thing?

(01:28:43):
It's a dust sucker.
All right.
Um, 2100 sats from Cass.
He says, uh, his message is grep star
dot log.
That was for our previous show.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Paul Erskine, $67.89. Through Fountain.
He says emptying this wallet for unfortunate reasons.
Have fun pushing the RSS.

(01:29:04):
Oh, I'm sorry.
Hope everything's okay.
See loss on Linux.
One, two, three, four through Fountain.
He says satisfying episode.
Oh, that's good.
Uh, Kevin, oh, Kevin Bay.
300,000 sats.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Paula!
Shot Carla!
20 inch blades on the Impala!

(01:29:25):
Thank you, Kevin.
Podcast guru.
He says, uh, thank you.
Thank you, Boost.
In honor of everyone who listened to, stream
sats and boosted my show sats and sounds.
My 100 episode run was a blast.
Oh, I guess, I guess he ended it.
Is he ending it?
I guess sounds like it.
Well, at 100 episodes, that's a good run,

(01:29:45):
man.
That's beautiful.
Uh, thank you.
Appreciate that, brother.
Uh, uh, Bruce, the ugly quacking duck.
Row of ducks.
2222 through podcast guru.
Like a guru represented today.
Yeah, repping.
Uh, Rocky was a great guest.
Chat with live will be great.
Thanks, Adam and Dave.
Go live.
Go live.

(01:30:06):
Let's see.
And I think you already got.
Well, we don't have the delimiter.
Yeah, but you got salty crayon.
I got salty crayon five by five in
the pipe.
Yep.
So we got the delimiter, comic strip blogger,
Mr. CSB.
13755 through fountain.
He says, howdy, Adam and Dave.
Giving birth to a wholly new podcast is

(01:30:28):
a struggle.
Today, I recommend a wholly new podcast entitled
two and a half bins that yet doesn't
have its own feed, but is living on
the RSS feed of older podcast at www
.lotuseffect.show. They're in Bimro's phone boy and
phone boy's girlfriend.

(01:30:49):
Phoenix.
Talk about information, technology, industries and stuff.
Who knows?
Maybe this new podcast will survive.
Maybe not.
Dot, dot, dot.
Well, you got comic strip blogger in your
corner, so that's always good.
He is pimping you.
He is definitely pimping you.
Thank you to all of these boosters and
PayPalers.

(01:31:09):
We appreciate you so much.
Podcastindex.org down at the bottom.
A red donate button for your fiat fund
coupons.
And of course, any of the modern podcast
apps.
We accept it all in your booster grams
and your sats.
And it's so much appreciated.
And thank you, boardroom, for being here on
this Independence Day.
I'm sure a lot of you had other
things you can do.
Everything here got canceled.

(01:31:30):
We've just been under a deluge of rain.
Is it still raining?
Yeah.
First world problem.
The pool is overflowing.
You have brisket problems.
You need to go.
I do.
And Dave, can I email you the RSS
feed or send you the RSS feed later
for you to update so that we can

(01:31:50):
actually publish?
Yeah, sure.
Okay.
No problem.
We're doing this.
We're going old school.
Yeah.
Next week, I won't be able to do
the board meeting because I'll be in New
York.
I will be out for the next two
because I'm going to be gone two weeks.
I'm not going to be.
I'm going to be gone two weeks in
a row, like 10, well, 10 days.

(01:32:12):
And they're going to overlap.
We're on a summer holiday.
I will be in the in the wilderness.
All right.
So we'll be back after the two week
break, everybody.
Dave, make sure you send me your root
password because, you know, you're going to be
in the wilderness and you want me to
type that rm-R star, everybody.

(01:32:33):
Boardroom, thank you very much for being here.
We keep going.
We keep moving forward.
Thanks for tuning in once again to Podcasting
2.0. You

(01:32:57):
have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit
podcastindex.org for more information.
Go podcasting!
I'm telling you, just give me root, baby.

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