Episode 232: RF Bigot

Podcasting 2.0 August 29th 2025 Episode 232: "RF Bigot"

Adam & Dave Discuss the Cracker Boom, LLM Podcast discovery and more!

ShowNotes

We are LIT

Podhome app - Podcast Pulse

HLS VIDEO etc

Two Surprising Facts About Platform Consumption In 2025 - Sounds Profitable

Riverside hosting -> Support is everything, not bandwidth

TuneIn - Crunchbase Company Profile & Funding

LIT - Stations new Radio Format

Hello Franklin RSS Feed

What Will Apple Do?

The Business Journals

This week in Vibe Coding - TWIV

-------------------------------------

MKUltra chat

Transcript Search

What is Value4Value? - Read all about it at Value4Value.info

V4V Stats

Last Modified 08/29/2025 14:23:58 by Freedom Controller  

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Podcasting 2.0 for August 29th, 2025, episode
232, RF Bigot.
Hello, everybody.
Welcome once again to the official board meeting
of Podcasting 2.0. That's right.
We are an association of sorts.
We've got no bylaws, no articles of incorporation.
We don't even know what we're really doing.

(00:21):
But we do talk about podcasting, what it's
and will always be.
We are, in fact, the only boardroom that
has liquid in our glass.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of
the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the
man who eats LLM pot truffle for breakfast.
Say hello to my friend on the other
end, the one, the only, Mr. Jay Jones.

(00:46):
So, yeah, on my way, if people, a
funny thing happened on my way to Doha.
Yes.
Yeah.
I'm on my way to the podcast.
The, you know, I do this show on
my lunch break.
Yes.
Yes.
We are aware.
So I, my, the typical pattern is I

(01:08):
get home at 1215.
So I have 15 minutes to get, get
in the door and get some sort of
lunch put together and get on the mic.
Yes.
And that usually goes off without a hitch
because I'm, I'm a very habitual person and
I do the same thing every day.

(01:29):
Beef milkshake salad, these kinds of things.
Yes.
It's the same.
Yeah.
Funny.
Well, funny how you are like that.
So I put, I put, um, I put
the beef milkshake together as I usually do
in the blender bottle or the blender.
Um, it's like a ninja bullet thing.
Yeah.
You know, so you, you put, you flip

(01:49):
it upside.
It's like upside down on the blender.
I'm very familiar with the bullet concept.
Yes.
So I put, I put all my ingredients
in there.
The beef milkshake is this, the beef milkshake
is 12 ounces of 2% milk.
One scoop of equip chocolate beef protein powder,

(02:14):
grass fed beef protein powder, a scoop of
pure whey protein isolate, and a scoop of
creatine.
Oh, creatine.
Yeah.
Creatine.
Everyone's all giddy about the creatine and three
ice cubes.
That is, that has been the, that is
the recipe for the beef milkshake for many

(02:35):
years now.
Okay.
Now I'm just going to guess either one
of the elements was not available or you
forgot one or you put something wrong in
there.
Wrong on all counts.
Okay.
I will go back in my hovel.
In order to understand what happened, you have
to understand that the beef, the, the equip

(02:57):
beef protein is, it's like, um, it's hydro,
it's hydrolyzed, which means it's, it's, it's hydrolyzed.
It's a greasy thing.
Yeah.
Which means they make it where it is
water.
It is liquid soluble, but it's not by

(03:19):
nature liquid soluble.
So it would, it has, it has to
be conditioned, you know?
And then, so even, even in its hydrolyzed
state, it's still one, it's still kind of
resistant.
It doesn't want to mix.
Like it, it doesn't want to be, it
wants to clump more than anything.

(03:40):
Yes.
I understand.
Yeah.
You know how, you know how if you
just dump, um, like cocoa powder into milk
or something, it just doesn't want to mix.
You'll wind up burning your throat when you
swallow that clump.
Yeah.
So, um, that's the way this stuff behaves.
So it just sort of like, before I
blend it, it just sits on top.
It just kind of, it's floating on top

(04:02):
of the milk.
And so what happens, I, I throw my
ice cubes in, throw my milk in, throw
the, the beef protein, protein powder in all
this first on top of the milk, then
the, then the whey protein, then the creatine.
I'm reaching over to get the top to

(04:23):
put on the thing.
And as I'm reaching over, I, I hit
the, the, this, I hit the open blender
container and beef protein and everywhere.
It went all over the place.
The entire thing went all over the counter
down behind every crevice.

(04:47):
And so I was like, Oh shit.
And so I run and grab some towels
and stuff.
And I'm starting, I'm trying to get, and
it's just in the, like, as the milk
spread out really wide, the, the beef protein
powder began to sort of like do its

(05:08):
thing and sink in.
So by the time I even got to
be like scrubbing it up and cleaning it
up, it had formed this really, this like
pasty chocolate glue glue all over the countertop.
Yeah, this is very bad.
It, I just finally had to just leave
it.
I got it about halfway cleaned up.
It is a, I hope my wife does

(05:28):
not come home midstream of the podcast.
That's exactly, you want to make sure she
doesn't come, come home before you have a
chance to clean it up.
I had something similar happen.
We, we got one of those, um, one
shot, uh, French press deals.
Are you familiar with this?
It's like.
I don't know the one shot.
What's that?
Well, it's a plastic tube and, and it

(05:49):
has a screw, a screw on cap on
the bottom.
You put a little filter paper in there,
you screw it back on, you put your
coffee in and then you pour your coffee
in and you, well, you have it on
top of the mug and then you press
down on a plunger.
So, you know, this makes a single shot
espresso.
Yes.
Uh, single French press, single shot of French
press.
Okay.
Okay.

(06:09):
So, but I had a big, big mug
and so I'm pouring the hot water in.
I'm like, you know, um, this is a
big mug.
I'm going to pour a little more in.
So I'm just pouring.
And it was kind of like a bottomless
pit because it's obviously going into the cup
and I'm not, I'm just waiting to pour
it.
And then I press the plunger down.
The cup overflows, fill coffee, grinds, everything goes

(06:33):
all, all over the counter and into the
drawer underneath, which of course is Tina's junk.
We all have a junk drawer and with
Tina, there's no such thing.
It's a neatly organized papers, you know, all
kinds of important documents.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So, and that happened with her standing right

(06:55):
there.
So I didn't have a chance to save
any, there was no saving it.
You know, the papers are stuck together.
Yeah.
It's the, it's the worst when you make
a mess in the kitchen and your wife
finds out.
Right now, right now in my kitchen, it
looks like somebody, it looks like somebody got
up on the, on the counter and just
took a dump.

(07:15):
That is basically just like this big blob
of, of brown goo.
So you don't even have a lunch basically.
No, I'm, I'm, um, I had a nut.
That's why I couldn't finish cleaning it up.
Cause I had to hastily make another beef
milkshake.
Oh man.
You know what made me the most angry
is that the equip beef milkshake, the equip

(07:38):
beef protein is like super expensive.
It's like 60 bucks a bag.
And I was like, man, that's like a
buck.
That's like, that's like a dollar and 75
cents in on my counter.
Wow.
Wow.
No, I'm sorry, bro.
But I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm getting through.
I have turkey pepperoni, some nuts and a
beef milkshake.

(07:58):
Yes.
Well, you do seem to have, you're not
exactly the same guy every single day.
It seems like you have variety of snacks
on the show.
You know, you have different kinds of nuts,
different kinds of nuts, different nuts, different sandwich,
right?
Right now I'm eating the planters duo, peppercorn,
pistachios and Parmesan cashews.

(08:20):
Wow.
My stomach hurts just thinking about it.
Are you not a nuts guy?
Oh, I'm a very much a nuts guy,
but not with all kinds of cheese and
crap on it.
Just a nut.
Give me a nut.
I love nuts.
I'd like to fist my nuts.
I mean, I love, I love nuts.
I like all different sizes of nuts.

(08:42):
Yeah.
I heard that about you.
Yeah.
Like the Brazil nuts are too big though.
Yes.
I hate it when you can't get the
nuts in your mouth.
Wow.
I know.
I know it's Friday.
I've had a good morning.
I had a good morning.
Yeah.
I gotta tell you're in trouble.

(09:03):
Yeah.
No, of course.
I'm always in trouble for something.
Hey, congratulations to Barry releasing his pod home
app.
Got to get him on the show.
Did you see the pod home app?
Man, it's, it's a nice looking app.
I hadn't even had time.
I'm going to look, I'll download it right
now.
Yeah.
He's really taken full advantage of, uh, uh,

(09:26):
of the APIs.
And he has, I don't know how he
gets trending.
He may be doing that himself, but he
put something in called podcast pulse and it's,
Oh yeah, I did see that.
Yeah.
And it's, and it's literally pod ping.
So you just see boom, boom, boom, boom,
boom.
Just new shows flying everywhere.
It's the talk about a discovery mechanism.

(09:47):
I've always loved that.
I've loved the tiles dot.
What is it?
Tiles dot pod ping dot cloud.
I think.
Yeah.
That's watching the aquarium.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's watching the aquarium.
It's so fun.
And you can see different days of the
week.
I mean, if you do it at midnight,
you see all the shows that update at
midnight.
There's a lot of shows that automatically update
at midnight and then do it on a

(10:09):
Sunday morning.
It's like the whole church world is just
boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
Everyone's updating.
It's very much so.
Yes.
Where, okay.
Where, where's the, where's the, it's maybe it's
under discover.
Oh yeah.
Episode episode pulse.
Yeah.
Is it episode also that was called?
You need a premium membership.

(10:30):
Okay.
I'll pay you money.
You gotta get a premium baby.
You gotta get the premium membership.
Yeah.
Real time.
I'm paying you money real time, Barry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We need Barry on the show.
We got, we got, we have to again,
ask him how it's possible that he's doing
all this so cheaply.
It's amazing.
Wait, it says I'm a premium member.
How can I be a premium member?
If I've never, you're the pod Sage.

(10:52):
Of course you're the pod stage by definition
is premium.
You are premium baby.
It doesn't know.
I may have just found a bug.
No, I think he already set us up
for premium.
Did you use your email address?
No.
Hmm.
He, well, he's probably in the room next
door knowing Barry, he could be there.

(11:14):
It's a, it's a, I like the pulse.
I don't want, if, if this was some,
if some Barry, if you did this somehow,
I do not want your charity.
I want to pay you money.
So I, by definition, I pay for all
the podcast apps that I use.
I actually used for the first time, uh,
you know, podcast guru updated and then now

(11:35):
you can connect your strike wallet.
That was a very enjoyable experience.
Oh yeah.
You just, you just tap on it and
then it takes you to an, I guess
an OAuth login and you type in your,
you know, your, uh, your strike.me credentials.
Yeah.
Um, actually, you know, the, uh, you type

(11:55):
in your email address, they send you, an
email to verify, which is always nice.
Um, and then boom, it's done.
And, um, so I boosted this week in
Bitcoin with a boost, sent a boost to
Graham to see if he sees that because
of course, you know, the metadata thing is
all over the map.
Um, so we'll see, uh, but I'll find

(12:18):
out next week if he got my boost
and this is a, and I boosted him
an extra 10,000 sats as a penalty
boost for using the term pod on, on
this week in Bitcoin.
Yes.
Yes.
A huge violation.
Huge violation.
Chris ought to know better.
That's just unacceptable.

(12:40):
Yes.
It's unacceptable.
I tell you.
Yeah.
But you know, just on hosting for a
moment, you know, there's been a lot of
talk in the podcast industrial complex about Riverside
now offering hosting and I'm, I'm just smiling
at this.
I'm just laughing because you and I both
know what's going to happen.

(13:01):
I don't think Riverside understands what hosting is.
Yeah.
You can have an interface to upload and
you know, yeah, you can, you can generate
an RSS feed, but the two things of
hosting are number one stats stats.
Number one is stats.
You're going to have those stats, baby.
If you don't have stats, if you don't,
you can't just have a couple of a

(13:21):
pie charts.
No, no, no, no.
You got to have all these incredibly detailed
stats that ultimately mean absolutely nothing.
Everyone's got to have that that's buried to
entry.
And then you need customer support.
If you don't have customer support, you're not
going to retain customers.
Customer support will blow you up.
Yep.
It is.

(13:41):
It is the, the biggest thing because no,
yeah.
How many, how many percentage of podcast hosting
company customers know what they're doing?
Actually know what they're doing.
I mean, it's gotta be less than 50%.
Yeah.
I think it's low.
I know that I think rss.com, I
think they have 20 people, you know, not
all full-time, but they have 20 people

(14:02):
around the world to keep a, a constant,
you know, a, a constant manned station.
But yeah, that's, that's what it is.
That's what people are really paying for.
And I'm sure Barry is, you know, Barry
has a lot of stuff, AI generated automatic.
And so, you know, you just kind of
throw your file up there and then it

(14:24):
spits out something generates even art and all
the stuff you would want.
So he may have less of that, but
I know he's very hands-on.
I do.
I think he's also, he's somehow independently wealthy.
That always helps.
He has something, I think he did like
some online courses that are just making him

(14:46):
money.
Like a, like a Fleetwood Mac album, you
know, it just keeps on generating cash forever.
Yeah.
You just have, all you have, all you
need is one rumors and then everything else
is gold after that or tapestry.
Oh yeah, exactly.
That's all you need.
So we had a really great day this
morning and I'm saying this for a reason

(15:06):
because I think Apple is listening and they're
moving closer.
You know, there's this whole conversation about how
they are now incorporating tune in like some
arms length tune in partnership.
Yeah.
I heard, I heard him talking about on
power about it.
Yeah.
And when I was at podcast movement, uh,

(15:27):
Teddy H, he came up to me and
he said, Teddy H man, Teddy H.
He said, you know, I listened to your
hello Fred station in, uh, in Apple music.
I said, what?
He says, oh yeah, no, but if it's
like, Whoa.
Yeah.
Does that work?
Yeah.
If it's tune in now it's available on
Apple music.
So a couple of things I'm thinking here.
One, that's an acquisition target for them because

(15:49):
tune in has a, they have a business
model.
It, I mean, I think they're a dead
company, but they are a money machine because
in order to get my hello Fred station
on tune in, which makes it available in
Sonos and, um, smart speakers, it costs 65
bucks a month and it is very expensive.

(16:11):
Tell me I'm wrong, but it seems like
tune in has great cashflow, but probably a
ton of debt.
Well, that's a good question.
Yes.
I think you're right.
Um, let's take a look.
Uh, tune in.
What was the, it's, um, who tracks that?
Uh, what's that?

(16:32):
What's that tech website?
Crunch.
Yes.
Tech crunch.
Thank you.
Let's take a look.
Tune in tech crunch.
They always, yeah, here we go.
Uh, uh, tech crunch.
Let me see.
They usually have a page for that.

(16:56):
Uh, let me see.
Tech crunch tune in investments.
I thought there was tech crunch that did
that.
Yeah.
Here we go.
So let's see.
$25 million round, but that one was that
that's a while ago.
I don't know.
Wait.

(17:17):
Ooh, no, that's 2013.
So they have, they have a lot of
these as an article from December of last
year saying that they've never made a profit.
Well, I think there were just people heavy,
you know, cause they're, it's like one of
these companies where it's really, it's a really
simple business.
It's a really good one to just maintain

(17:38):
a database of all the live radio stations.
You know, they got sidetracked and they built
a whole podcasting wing and then they, they
got rid of that.
Let me see.
Oh, crunch base.
That's what it is.
Hold on.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
That's what I'm looking for.
Valley investor.
Here we go.

(17:58):
Okay.
Uh, cloud flare, however, does, does have to
verify my session to make sure I'm not
some kind of scammer.
Okay.
Let's see.
Let's see.
When did they get, they've changed the interface
to make it completely.
Okay.
So now if you don't pay for tech

(18:19):
crunch, you can't see, but they've had one,
two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine,
10 rounds of investment.
The last one that tech crunch or the
crunch base has a 12 actually is November
23rd, 2020, but I can't see the amount
of money raised.
Well, I can join crunch base for free.

(18:40):
Hold on.
Whoa, baby.
Oh, crunch base can now access everything on
my Google account.
Yay.
Continue, continue, continue.
Let me see.
What do I have?
Okay.
All right.
Next.
Okay.
Sales prospecting.
Okay.
I don't want to try it out.
This sounds like my guess is that they

(19:03):
have, here we go.
What is it?
They've, they've raised a lot of money, have
a lot of debt.
Okay.
Listen to this.
Listen to this.
Okay.
Going back to 2006 series a that's 1
.4 million.
That's just a starter.
Then they made a mistake and did a
venture round at 1.6. That really hurts

(19:24):
your market cap.
So then in 2009, they did another series
a at 500, then a series B for
852 million.
No, 852,000.
Sorry.
Then a series C for 6 million, a
series D for 16 million, another venture round
for 25.

(19:45):
Then in 2015, they raised 50 million, a
series F, then a series G for 43
million.
And then undisclosed, undisclosed amount of money in
2020.
So equity is so spread out.
Nobody, nobody's going to make any money.
And they have another, another round schedule.

(20:06):
So their cap table is totally screwed.
So total funding, 146.6 million.
That's what James's article here says.
LinkedIn is littered with, it says LinkedIn is
littered with evidence of senior employees having left
tune in.
That's probably wise because their equity got so
diluted that it's just completely worthless.

(20:26):
And so why stay around?
So they had the right idea, but they
totally screwed it up, which is too bad
because anyway, so back to the Apple thing.
So now, unfortunately, so there's good and bad
news.
The good news is Apple is seeing the
value in having online radio stations.
The bad news is they're putting it into
Apple music, which I'm sure is some kind

(20:48):
of different silo from podcasts.
And the reason I say this is today
we had another great meeting, sold another Godcaster
to another church who understands, Hey, we can
be the radio station, the digital station in
our local market.
In this case, it's Franklin, Tennessee.

(21:08):
And what we've put together with Godcaster is
this combination of live streams, which could be
a live music stream, you know, any kind
of live stream and on demand.
And then we have the patent-pended technology
of channel streams, which creates a live stream
out of all the podcasts you have in
a certain player.

(21:29):
And the cool thing is that we automatically
generate an RSS feed that has the lit
tag in it.
And this pastor, Darren, he's like, Oh, wow.
He says, this is really cool.
So now I'm a station, I'm a publisher
in podcast apps.

(21:51):
And so of course Apple doesn't show the
lit tag, but man, think of the opportunity
here for Apple and even Spotify.
They're not listening.
Apple listens where they can be an outlet
for digital stations that include on demand.
So the podcast, as well as the live
stream through the lit tag, this is redefining

(22:13):
radio and it's redefining it in a way
that a whole different category of players, of
entities can come into the space and become
a modern radio station where you have the
serendipity of listening.
And of course, the way we have it
in the Godcaster app, when you're listening to
something, it shows that we have a cookie

(22:35):
trail back to what you're listening to.
So if you're listening to, I have a
station, Adam's favorite podcast, and you're listening, if
you hear podcasting 2.0, it says view
this station so you can see all the
other programs I have available in my station
or view this program takes you right back
to podcasting 2.0. This is something really

(22:58):
different for radio.
And I'm not going to say we designed
this.
This was vibe coding all the way amongst
a couple of dudes just like, yeah, I
think I'll do this.
This is what radio needs to evolve into.
Yes.
At the local level.
At the local level, it's dynamite.

(23:21):
Yeah.
When you bring the lit tag in, I
wrote that blog post about a month ago
or so.
As you begin to support the new tags,
you begin to blur the lines between live

(23:42):
and on demand because it all just becomes
sort of one thing in the app.
You're flipping back and forth between, I'm live
now and now I'm listening to an on
demand episode.
And so you're like, there's no longer this
sort of stark distinction between the two experiences

(24:06):
that you get when you have like the
way it's mostly been done when you have
to go, when radio stations just chop up
their stream and stick and create separate podcasts.
Now you're going to have to go, I've
got to go to this station's website and

(24:27):
listen to the live stream and hit the
listen live button.
But if I want to hear a past
episode of something, I've got to go find
their app on an app store and download
that.
It's like they're two completely different experiences, but
with the live item tag, they don't have
to be.
It can all be in a podcast app.

(24:50):
And so, and so again, the good news
is Apple is seeing the value of live
streams, but they're putting it in the wrong
app.
It needs to go into the podcasting app.
And Apple, they will support, they are going
to put it in the podcast app.
I sure hope so.
I would be, if it's not, if they

(25:12):
don't have live, if Apple doesn't have live
item tag support in the main Apple podcast
app within two years, I will be stunned.
Two years.
Yeah.
All right.
Mark it down.
Put it in the red book, everybody.
Two years, two years.
I mean, I just, I bet you Teddy

(25:33):
H has, has a prototype already, already rocked.
Teddy H.
The mystery man, Teddy H.
Behind that beard.
That's right.
There's a lot going on behind that beard,
people.
Yeah.
I'm with you.
I'm with you.
I believe that wholeheartedly that there, I just

(25:55):
know it's going to happen.
Now, should we be.
It's such a good experience.
Should we be putting publisher, should these be
publisher feeds of these stations that we're creating?
Or am I, am I seeing that wrong?
Doesn't, no, cause it's not their shows, right?
Right.
Yeah.
So it's just an aggregate, but man, it
rocks so hard.

(26:15):
It's like a big aha moment when you
say, oh, and now you, you have a
podcast feed and you show them the feed
and you open it up through, um, um,
the system formerly known as episodes.fm. Now
known as Plink.
Plink.

(26:35):
Plink.
Yes.
Plink.
And I think Plink is actually another product.
And yeah, it is.
And you, and you show them like, oh,
here's all the apps.
Like what?
Yeah.
And just click and open.
Now, of course, Apple and Spotify doesn't show
the live, the live stream, but when you
show it to them in a, uh, podcast
guru, podverse, fountain, et cetera, their eyes go
wide.
Like, wow.

(26:56):
Okay.
So yeah.
And these episodes, they are, they update automatically.
What?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Plink.
Sorry about that, Nathan.
I didn't mean to besmirch you with a,
with a competitor's name.
The, the church, yeah.
Eric said the church could have a publisher
feed.
That's, that's right.
Yeah.
The church for their content.
And that's where, that's really where it should
be on the publisher dashboard.
Yeah.

(27:16):
That you'd be able to spin those up.
But yeah, I mean, I think that's just
like, um, I think, I think I'm re
I'm really encouraged by the momentum that I'm
starting to see because it feels like people

(27:36):
are no longer like, podcasting 2.0. That's
why don't you get a focus group together
and see that this thing's crap.
Nobody wants this stuff.
Like, I mean, that's what we were hearing
two, three years ago.
Oh, I heard it.
I heard it in podcast movement now, but
now people are just like, Hey, we need

(27:58):
some fresh, we need fresh new things in
podcasting.
I mean, like the, the apps already have
everything.
They have the basics.
They just, everybody's already got everything.
Like there has to be some new ideas.
And I'm really encouraged to see that there
are these, these, the 2.0 tags that,

(28:22):
you know, some of them have been around
for four years now, five years going on,
that they're starting to come to, to be
actually put into use.
And we taught, you know, we've talked about
this a hundred times.
You can't just look at usage metrics and
say this particular tag was a failure.
Now you can look at it structurally and

(28:44):
say, okay, it's a failure.
Like with the image tag, with the images
tag, the previous one, you can say, okay,
this, this thing just doesn't do enough to
justify its existence.
It can be better.
And so, you know, let's re-engineer it
to be a better, to just do a

(29:06):
better, to do a better job.
Now that's, that's a thing that, that makes
sense.
But if you just look at usage metrics
and say, well, this tag is, is not
being used very much.
Therefore we need to deprecate it or something
like that.
That to me, that is not a strong
argument because it can sometimes take a very,

(29:26):
very long time.
Years, years, years.
I would also recommend that just because I
see the market and I see the response
hosting companies consider marketing, hyperlocal podcasting.
You know, everyone has their own, their marketing
message.
Everyone has different ways of selling podcasting to

(29:47):
potential people, but it is, it was amazing
to me.
Potential people?
Potential, potential customers.
Now they may be people, but you know,
they may also be customers.
Right.
That is amazing to me.
I just like the term potential people.
That's show title.
Potential people.
There we go.

(30:08):
No, what?
Potential people.
There's a light bulb that I've seen go
on over and over again when I say,
Hey, you know, you don't have to be
Joe Rogan, just the podcast.
You can do something for your town, for
your club, for your your group, for your
church, for your school.

(30:30):
And it doesn't have to be this, you
know, you don't have to be going for
swinging for the fences.
In fact, you're unlikely to succeed.
But people don't even think of podcasting this
way.
They think, Oh, you know, I gotta be
like Rogan.
I gotta be like, I gotta be a
BB.
It's a light bulb that goes on that

(30:51):
is baffling because it seems so obvious to
us.
You know, we've been around for a while,
but when you, when you say to somebody,
they go, Oh, really?
Yes, really.
You can do that.
Oh, I never thought of it that way.
So, yeah.
And there's a pretty good chance that you

(31:12):
will get local people to sponsor your endeavor.
People who you already know.
Really?
Yeah.
Give it a try.
I have email after email from people saying,
Hey, I heard, I heard it, man.
I set up a podcast and, and I'm
doing my, you know, talking with the guy
from the commerce, what is it?

(31:33):
The commerce board or the commerce, the chamber
of commerce in our town, Virginia.
And people really like it because businesses are
listening and people who want to know what's
on the calendar, the event calendar.
It's funny.
You know, I copy pasted my hyperlocal podcast
.com primer that I wrote, I don't know,

(31:57):
more than a year ago, I think.
Yeah.
And I put it into sub stack and
I hadn't even finished it.
I'm like, I'm just, you know, just I've
done like two things on this sub stack
ever.
And I've had it for a couple of
years.
I didn't even know you had a sub
stack.
Exactly.
And I just hit publish and like, Oh
crap.
It didn't carry over the links.
You know?
So I'll add those in later.
All of a sudden I hear James on

(32:19):
pod news.
Adam Curry has published a hyperlocal podcast primer.
Like what, what, what?
So somehow, somehow by hitting publish on sub
stack that showed up on his radar, I
thought that was rather interesting.
And I know I didn't do anything.
I'll just hit publish.
And that was a mistake.
I should have kept that as a draft

(32:39):
and I still haven't put the links in.
Hyperlocal.
So there's a, uh, I don't know.
Do you know the business journals?
Do you know this, this outfit, uh, biz
journal, B I Z with a, you know,
B I Z journals.com.

(33:00):
No, no.
So it's like a, they're like a collection
of, um, local business.
It's an online magazine, but they're, but they're
focused on each individual region, you know, like
city.
So Birmingham has one.
The Birmingham, the Birmingham business journal, the Dallas

(33:21):
business journal, blah, blah, blah.
Well, then they, they sort of wrap, wrap
all their stories and they have, they have
reporters and stuff for them.
And they sort of wrap all this content
up into biz journals.com.
And then you see sort of like a
view of everything, but then, but you know,
you subscribe, they have subscribers in each, you
know, you subscribe to your local version of

(33:42):
this thing, but then they also had to
have advertisers from local businesses and that kind
of stuff.
And it's a viable, good business.
So, because you, because you're, I think when
you focus, cause when you focus on local,
um, there's always a lot of value.
There's a lot more value to mo in

(34:04):
local.
What am I trying to say?
When it comes to advertising, there's a lot
more value in a local thing than there
is in some sort of national advertised.
Cause no, most what's the numbers is something
like, you know, how many tens of thousands
of small businesses are there in, in this
country in talking about us century, but I'm

(34:26):
sure it's this way all over the place.
Um, there's just always a hundred X more
local businesses than there are regional or national
businesses.
There's just, the numbers are just so much
larger as far as the total.
So if you, if you focus on local,
you're always going to have a much more

(34:49):
stable advertising base than if you try to
do some national deal.
So if you, you know, if you start
a hyper local podcast, I'm sure you can
find sponsors.
And I know you can, because you know,
if you, it, there's always going to be
the local car dealership and the local restaurants
and the local law law firms.

(35:09):
And the, I mean, they're just, they're always
going to be plenty of those sources of,
of sponsorship and, and advertising to support a
decent local business.
And I mean, if you're, if you're a
church looking for a sponsorship for your podcast,
local content, you know, there's going to be
a local Christian bookstores.

(35:30):
It'll cover your costs for real.
It'll cover your costs.
Definitely.
And it's just so much ease.
It seems so much easier than trying to
do some sort of national or ambiguously non
-regional podcast.
Oh, and it's more fun too, because people,

(35:50):
people in your hood will be listening.
It really is.
Like we had this, um, I mean, everybody's
got some version of, of, of a local
celebrity that, you know, for us, like we
have, uh, for years we had cousin Cliff.
He was the guy on local TV that

(36:12):
like, he was like, he would dress up
like a clown and do the kid's show
in the morning.
Yeah.
And creepy, but okay.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
He's totally creepy.
And then, but, but people support, you know,
he always had advertising just always, he always
people, he had the local car dealership was
his main guy, you know, main supporter.
And it just, if you're trying, trying to

(36:34):
be the next cousin, Cliff just seems like
a lot more straightforward proposition than trying to
be the next Joe Rogan.
Of course, of course.
Absolutely.
But I mean, it's, it's so, it's so,
it's just so easy to pull that trigger
now.
And start, you know, with, with, with how
quick it is to fire it, to spin

(36:56):
up a podcast.
They're, they're just so you can be with
the way hosting companies are now you can
be live with a podcast and published in
all platforms within a day.
I, I don't know how I got here
from the biz journals, but Alabama is, has,
is in the, has three cities in the

(37:16):
top 10 of most dangerous cities in America.
Oh yeah.
Birmingham is like top three.
No, no, you're no, you've dropped out of
the top three.
You're number seven.
Bessemer is number one.
That's a city right next to Birmingham.
Mobile, mobile is number two.
Birmingham dropped down at number seven.

(37:38):
What did Trump come to town?
Did he bring in the national guard?
Did he clean stuff up for you?
No, we, yeah, we, it's, it's all, it's
funny.
Cause all those numbers, those, the, the crime
statistics for, for Birmingham, all the, all the
trouble is usually within like one geographic area.

(38:02):
It's like, it's like, it's like one little
pocket of Birmingham.
Yeah.
That's the place, if you've ever watched The
Wire, that's the place where eventually it'll burn
down.
And then the, before you know it, you
got a stadium or luxury condos.
It's funny.
Cause we don't like the city of Birmingham,

(38:23):
it feels super safe.
Like it, but the crime statistics are just
like, we, as a Birmingham resident, you look
there, you look at the crime statistics.
You're like, really?
Wow.
That's, I'm not feeling that, you know.
Well, I'm sure you live in the very
safe white part of town, Dave Jones.
Absolutely not.

(38:44):
I absolutely do not live in the safe
white part of town.
We live literally like downtown, downtown, downtown.
Yeah.
No, you're fine.
I think it's, it's probably every city has,
or of any size has, has the, the,
the area where you just, it's just prone
to crime, you know?

(39:04):
So just two quick words about video.
First of all, James Cridland is now doing,
I guess he finally got a roadcaster.
I wonder if the Aussies gave one to
him for free.
They've never, they've never given me anything.
They give all the YouTubers, all the free

(39:25):
gear.
He's probably an advisor.
Well, yeah, they don't, I love their products.
I buy them.
I love their products.
We still have to figure out if we
can do the direct connection thing.
You know, I, I, so I got the
most recent update and I, I tried it
with a web browser.
And, you know, so you scan the QR
code on the screen, that's the link, you

(39:47):
send that to somebody, they can log in.
Works beautifully once.
That second time's a killer.
Yeah.
Every single time after that, it would be
like call, I hit answer.
And then, you know, and then it just
wouldn't connect.
Even though on the phone, on the browser,
it said connected and it was sending packets.
So I don't know.

(40:08):
Maybe I'll reboot the machine.
Try it again.
When we, we will try it.
People think it's a good system.
I'm very partial to clean feed though.
I'm a very loyal client.
That means I'll have to plug my ethernet
cable back into my roadcaster.
No, it did it on wifi.
It worked on wifi for me.
Please.
Oh yeah.
You don't have wifi.
I'm sorry.
You're against wifi.

(40:28):
You're anti-wifi.
You hate wifi.
You hate wifi.
You're anti-RF.
You're an RF bigot.
RF bigot.
RFK.
Um, anyway, so James has started doing a
video version of, um, of the pod news
daily report and which of course I watched,

(40:52):
you know, and, and he's, I know it's
just testing as a long time listener and
sat streamer of pod news.
I hate it.
And the, and the reason why is because.
I just like it when you haste.
I really hate it because his whole read
is different.
You know, watch the video and he's looking

(41:15):
at the script off to the side.
So either he needs a teleprompter, which is
a whole nother can of worms, uh, or
some, you know, has to position the camera
or something.
So he's not even looking at the camera
and that's all right.
I don't want to see the video.
I want to listen to it.
And his audio production was, I love his
audio production.
He's more close mics.

(41:35):
Um, it's a different type of read, uh,
and that's all gone now.
And it just feels kind of a little
soulless, uh, what it is now.
And he's, he's without soul.
Yeah.
You shall not podcast without soul, you know?
So it's just like, the audio product is

(41:56):
really, really, really good.
And I really like it, especially when, when
he forgets to edit a pickup.
That's the funniest.
Yeah.
Is it as, is it on?
Oh yeah.
Here it is on YouTube.
It's just, it's just, it's just a different
read, which is, which is understandable.
No, it's, but to me it, uh, it

(42:18):
subtracts from the value of that.
I got from the audio, the pure audio
production.
I like, I like hearing a report.
Give me a report.
I want that report.
Here's pod news report Monday time for some
tech stuff.
I like it.
Do you, do you think it's, do you
think it's because he's looking at the camera?
Well, but I'm just, I mean, he, it's

(42:41):
an edited product.
He, or however he does it.
I don't, I presume that he does pickups
and other things, but he's focused really on
the read.
And now he's further from the mic.
He's, um, you know, it's, it's just a
different read when you're, when you're reading in
one, cause he has to do it all
in one go.

(43:01):
He's, he can't edit the video.
He's trying to do it all live to
tape, which is fine.
But I like the other, I like the
other way as an audio products.
I, I'm not going to watch the video
now.
I don't, I just want to hear the
information.
I just want the information, man.
Yeah.
So the second thing, go ahead.

(43:23):
Now, do you remember when we, you know,
I used to record myself as, as, as
a way to test in a tube with
alternate enclosure.
Yes.
And I would test them.
I would record myself doing this show and
I could fire that back up and we
could do HLS.
Yeah.
You do whatever you want to do, bro.

(43:45):
Okay, bro.
I'm not going to participate in that brother.
I'm not, I'm not going to participate in
that.
Maybe I'll, maybe I'll do it.
Maybe I'll fire up another feed.
Yeah.
Okay.
Um, I'm just trying to help.
Well here to be helpful.
So here's the second piece of the news,
two surprising facts about platform consumption in 2025

(44:06):
from sounds profitable.
Did you see this?
Well, essentially the stats confirm suspicions about YouTube.
It's not necessarily about being on video.
YouTube is just a really good app for
podcast consumption.
The app provides great search and discovery community
engagement.

(44:26):
But, uh, here is the stat that might
surprise you dispels the myth that video is
eating the world.
It is certainly true that a slight majority
of YouTube past podcast consumers say they watch
more than half of their podcasts.
19% say they watch 51 to 75
% plus the 34% who say they
watch more than 75.

(44:47):
But that means that just only under half
use YouTube to listen.
Even if the podcast is a video podcast,
people are listening to podcasts.
So I think it's the definition of what
a podcast is.
Well, I've given up on that conversation.

(45:09):
No, no, I don't mean it in that
way.
Like I mean something different by that.
I realized what it sounded like, but what
I'm saying is something different.
What I'm saying is like, I think that
when you, a podcast is a particular thing,
like, and I'm not even talking about RSS

(45:30):
at this moment.
Like what I'm saying is that if I
say I'm listening to a podcast, it means
something specific.
It means like a particular type of content
that is geared toward a listening experience.

(45:53):
I like James's description where he says something
to do with your ears while your eyes
are busy.
I think the most of the podcast consumption
falls under that category.
It is something you're listening to while you're

(46:13):
occupied with something else.
Nobody just sits down on the couch and
listens to a podcast and stares at the
wall.
Agreed.
Like you're listening to a podcast while you,
you listen to a podcast in the same
way you would listen to an audio book.
It's just, it's a, it's an experience that

(46:35):
is, it's a sidecar experience.
It's a thing that you do alongside another
thing.
Whereas YouTube videos are not like that.
YouTube videos are something that you are intentionally

(46:57):
watching like you watch a television or, or
some other experience.
And this, the reason I'm, okay, so the
reason I'm getting, I'm digging in on this
is because this has been, this was a
topic of debate.
He, a slightly heated topic of debate when
we defined the video medium.

(47:20):
So for the podcast medium tag, there's all,
you know, there's different, different mediums.
You have audio book, music, podcast.
Right now, right now you have radio.
You have, you have various mediums meant to
define, this is the content, this is the
type of content that is being delivered.

(47:45):
And so one of those video, one of
those mediums is, it's still in the spec.
One of those mediums is video and the
podcast medium tag is designed to deliver a
different experience in an app, right?
It is, this is, it's not defining the

(48:07):
media format.
It's defining the media type.
And that's confusing, but yes, I remember this.
I remember this conversation.
Yeah.
And so, and I, and I think this
is becoming important again, because the, because the

(48:29):
medium is a distinct, is a distinctive.
The, if you have pod news daily, that
is a podcast medium.
If you have Joe Rogan's video, excuse me,

(48:56):
let me make a different example.
If you have the, let's say the day,
some show by the daily wire.
Is that Dave, is that Dave Rubin?
He's on, he's on daily wire.
He's on daily with Shapiro daily wire.
I can't keep up.
Ruben, I think is Ruben, Ruben may be
blaze.
I think daily route.

(49:19):
Okay.
Let's say Ben Shapiro show that is even
though it can be an audio.
If you, you can also publish it as
a video medium in the video medium is
a specific experience.
You're watching it's, it's what you're doing is

(49:42):
you're telling the PR you're telling the audience
this, what this type of thing is designed
for.
This is going to be an audio book
experience.
This is going to be a podcast experience.
This is going to be a video experience,
whatever, whatever the main experience experience is supposed
to be.
That's what you're putting into the video medium.

(50:03):
So I think this is going to become
more important as we get into HLS stuff
so that we can define in the, in
the feed, what this thing is supposed to
be.
And ideally what you're defining is the uh,
most appropriate experience, right?

(50:26):
Because what you, you can live, you can
have, you can have music like a music
album delivered by in an RSS feed without
defining a medium of music and it'll still
work.
It just won't be a great experience because
the tracks will be all out of order.

(50:47):
They'll, they'll mark themselves as played every time
you finish it so that you go back
in the, now the episode, now the track
is gone.
It's a real clumsy, weird experience.
So you define, you say, okay, this is
a music medium so that the app knows,
okay, don't do all that stuff.
The app knows to download all the tracks,

(51:08):
which are, you know, items in the, in
the feed, download all the tracks and don't
do all the normal podcast-y type stuff
to it.
Treat it like, treat it like a music
album.
And so the same thing is going to
happen, needs to happen with the video equals
medium equals video.
Now the app knows, okay, this is a

(51:32):
video first experience.
And that means something.
That means that the person, the intended, the
audience is intended to watch this thing.
Their eyes are going to be on the
app.
The, so there should be like a more

(51:52):
of an emphasis on what is happening on
the screen, like maybe chat or comments.
That it is a visual first experience.
And I, like, I think we need to
keep that in mind as people are talking
about HLS support, specifically video HLS support, because

(52:15):
that's what that thing was made to be.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Do you see, like, you see what I
mean?
I mean, it's, because it seems dumb.
I agree.

(52:35):
It seems dumb.
Why do you describe medium equals video?
The video is just the format of the
file being delivered and it can be a
video podcast.
Well, yeah, but I think that's the reason
I started thinking about this was what you
were just defining, what you were just saying
about actual consumption patterns is that it's what

(53:02):
we knew all along, that podcasts are a
thing that you listen to while you're doing
other, the pod, the experience of listening to
a podcast is a particular consumption form.
Yes.
And the experience of watching a video, a
YouTube style video thing is not the same

(53:25):
as that.
And you want to be able to define
to your audience, this is what I, this
is the way I intend this thing to
be consumed.
It doesn't mean you have to, you could
do something you could do different.
You can turn your screen off on YouTube
and just listen to it, but it's kind
of lame.
And the same thing with this other thing

(53:45):
is like, well, you know, you can, you
can, you can consume this HLS video content
in your podcast player in some other way
besides watching it.
That's fine, but it's just not going to
be that great.
Hmm.
You really hate this video talk, don't you?
It's just like, this is painful for you.

(54:06):
Well, I just feel bad that everyone somehow
believes that, that people just think a podcast
is video and it's, it doesn't matter.
I mean, it doesn't even matter that my
show is not on Spotify.
People don't care.
Oh, it's not on Spotify.
Okay.
I'll use this other app.
That's fine.
They want the content.

(54:27):
If they want the content, they will come
to your house and ask for a CD.
It's true.
It's true.
Yeah.
I mean, they'll do anything.
So it ultimately comes down to the content.
This is what I've noticed with the Godcaster.
It's like, where is it?
Oh, it's on the church homepage.
Okay.
I'll just go there.
I don't care.
I don't care.

(54:48):
It's all the same.
People don't know they have a web browser
anymore.
I got the DuckDuckGo.
You know, I just type in what I
want and then, then I'm there.
I don't know what's a web browser.
I don't know.
It's just, I got DuckDuckGo or I got
Google.
I used to use Google.
Now I use DuckDuckGo.
I hear it's safer.
This is literally the conversations I have.

(55:08):
And these are not old fogey people.
These are 35 year olds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, have you noticed Google is just,
um, like I'm seeing all these horror stories
of, um, websites.

(55:29):
There's traffic are down 60, 70%.
Oh, of course.
Because there's no more organic searchers.
Uh, no clicks.
No, everybody's using search.
I mean, Google, their money is, is not
actually on Google search anymore.
I know I I'm saying that as a
blanket statement, I don't actually know that, but

(55:50):
I know that, um, people are just getting
answers, right?
Yeah.
They're getting answers and yeah.
I mean, anthropic and, and Grok and others,
they will show you, okay, I looked at
20 websites.
And if you go back, you can then
say, all right, and let me click on
this.
Sometimes it's a little icon.
Nobody's ever going to do that.

(56:11):
No, they just take the answer.
Like, oh, that's the answer.
Uh, SEO is dead.
Everything is dying.
What Google's just using all they they're just
using all the content they scraped into their
large language model to give the answer directly
on their search result page.
Exactly.
So that you don't have to click through
the actual website.
Like I heard somebody say, or somebody say

(56:33):
the other day when they, when they automated
the blue collar jobs, nobody cared.
But when, now, when they're now that they're
automating the white collar jobs, everybody's losing their
mind.
It's like, yeah, it's true.
But I mean, you, they, I don't really
understand the, I don't want to say legality

(56:54):
because it's not really, I mean, these, these
behemoth companies just do whatever they want.
They don't, they don't care and they don't
ask anybody's permission.
No.
Oh, remember that it's even worse.
It's like, no, no, that's all fair use.
The internet has different rules.
Yeah.
Right.
Was that the Microsoft guy?
If you, if you just type in a,

(57:15):
like a typical developer question, um, uh, difference
between, uh, I'll, I'll type something like this.
JavaScript difference between client, uh, client with an
offsite with, uh, yeah, I know what that's
with.
Yes.

(57:37):
So you type in something like that.
You're going to get nowadays, you're going to
get a result, an answer from AI right
in Google search result page at the very
top.
Yep.
And right underneath it will be the first
hit will be a stack overflow answer that
all the Google's LLM has just reworded and

(57:57):
played right back to you.
Well, um, so that's why stack, I think
stack overflow, I'm not sure, but Reddit, that's
why they're a public company and doing quite
well is because they said, no, you can't
scrape us.
You can buy it from us.
And so Reddit it's whole business model is
on selling the content generated by its users.

(58:19):
Here's this, here's the Microsoft guy, uh, Microsoft
AI CEO LMNOP with respect to content that
is already on the open web.
The social contract of that content since the
nineties has been that it is fair use.
Anyone can copy it, recreate with it, reproduce
with it.
That has been freeware.
If you like, that's been the understanding.

(58:40):
There's a separate category where a website or
a publisher or a news organization had explicitly
said, do not scrape or crawl me for
any other reason than indexing me so that
other people can find that content.
That that's a gray area.
And I think that's going to work its
way through the courts.
Bull crap.
Yeah, right.
Yeah, sure.
That's the arrogance though.

(59:01):
Yeah.
Like, Oh yeah, no, that's the social contract
buddy.
Well now, now, okay.
So like the example you gave of, um,
um, uh, Reddit.
So that, that makes sense for Reddit that
they could, that they could sort of pivot
into, into chart and being a content farm

(59:23):
for the LLMs and still make a pretty
good living.
That is not going to be the case
for, for a site like stack overflow.
No, these LLMs are going to destroy stack
overflow.
It's going to disappear.
I think that they already had that controversy.
I think people were, uh, leaving stack overflow
or, or locking their accounts or something.

(59:44):
Let me see stack, uh, something like that.
Stack overflow, angry, angry users, AI
LLM question mark.
Okay.
Let's see.
Yes.
Uh, you know, there was stack overflow bands

(01:00:07):
users on mass for rebelling against open AI
partnership users ban for deleting answers to prevent
them from being used to train chat GPT.
This happened about a year ago.
They made a deal with open AI.
Yeah.
Did they get paid out of that deal?
Oh, of course.
Of course they do.

(01:00:27):
How much I wonder.
I don't know if that was, if that
was disclosed stack overflow, open AI deal.
Let's see.
Let's see what we get.
Uh, API partnership with stack overflow.
Let's see if, if anyone has any numbers

(01:00:50):
on it, I don't think there's numbers.
Eric's right.
It's too late.
It's too late to, you can't pivot after
the fact.
Once they have the content, it's already in
the model.
It's just done.
It's all, it was already there.
Yeah.
They're just having an, an argument for argument's
sake, but it was already done.
Yeah.
And once it's in, I mean, and that's
just open AI.
I mean, if it's in, you know, Lama

(01:01:10):
or one of these other ones, I mean,
you're just, you're screwed.
You're just screwed.
And the thing that there's like a cutoff
point where, um, once the answers become dependable
enough to where you don't really go to
those other sites anymore, then the content, then

(01:01:33):
the, the, the production of new content to
answer new answers, just to answer new questions
just stops.
Yeah.
Because nobody, what will happen is people will
go, they'll try to find the answer to
a question, a problem they're having the AI
won't be able to answer it completely.

(01:01:55):
And then they'll just give up and go
do something else.
Like there's not a, whereas in the past,
like you, you would just be opposed to
different sites.
You would have this discussion going about how
to solve this problem and you would eventually
land on an answer most of the time.
But I think this, this new paradigm, the

(01:02:17):
fact that the answer is so readily available
through an LLM result now means that they
are going, the net effect is it's going
to basically freeze everything in time.
There's going to come a point, you know,
it's probably already passed where there's just not
going to be any more answers to new
questions because there's no play because the LLM

(01:02:40):
can't generate new content.
It can only scrape what's already been, what's
already out there.
And everything's going to be frozen around 24,
2024, 2024 timeline.
Yes.
Yeah.
I think you're right.
And of course I should actually start posting
my vibe, my vibe coded code so the
LLMs can ingest that and they'll collapse the
model even faster.

(01:03:02):
Yeah.
I've already blocked, like I'm blocking all the
scrapers.
Yeah.
Do you seeing a lot of what you
consider to be LLM traffic?
Yeah, quite a bit.
I mean, we, we, you know.
Hey, we should sell that data, man.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm, I'm blocking AI crawler bots all

(01:03:23):
over the place.
Like I'm seeing it's, it's really hurting like
small niche websites.
Oh yeah.
Like I'm, there's a really good website that
I use a lot called Ford fortification, F
O R D.
It's for old Ford truck people.
And tons and tons.
Like this thing's been around forever.

(01:03:45):
I don't know, 15 years.
It looks like it.
I'm looking at it right now.
It still has that website builder template.
I'm surprised it doesn't have blink tags.
It's marquee.
Marquee.
Yes.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Click on forums.
Yes.
Oh, it actually came up this time.
It goes down the forums.

(01:04:07):
It's all PHP BB forms.
Yeah.
It goes down multiple times a day.
Yeah.
And I know what it is.
It's the AI crawlers.
They're just killing it.
Yeah.
And this website, if you're an old Ford
truck person, this website has answers to almost
everything you could possibly imagine.

(01:04:28):
It is like the Bible of, of 60
sixties to seventies Ford trucks.
Yeah.
Here's the first post.
Whenever I try to access from the link
on the homepage, the following error occurs, internal
server error.
The server encounter internal error or misconfiguration was
unable to complete your request.

(01:04:49):
It used to work back in 2019 all
the time.
What's going on with you guys?
Yeah.
Whenever you see a view topic dot PHP
question mark, you know that that's going to
be in trouble.
That's the, that's the thing is they're, they're
just the, these, the scrapers are just hurt.
They're killing things.
It's so sad.

(01:05:09):
It's bad because they want, they want the
answer.
They're pilfering all of the, the content off
of this site and it's just, it's gross.
Yeah.
I'm angry about it.
As you should be.
Yes.
Especially for the Ford community, the Ford flatbed
bed truck community.

(01:05:31):
But, but luckily Microsoft sent me an email
this morning about new features in notepad.
Oh, do tell.
Do they have a, is that little, that
irritating icon popping up the co-pilot?
Yeah.
You know, I don't know how Microsoft is

(01:05:52):
the largest company in the world, $4 trillion
market cap.
And the things they do make absolutely no
sense.
They're a completely schizophrenic company.
I don't even, I've never, to my knowledge,
received an email from Microsoft.
So I don't know how I got on
any sort of list.
And the first time I've ever received an

(01:06:14):
email from Microsoft, it's about new features in
notepad.
How does that even, what features do you
need to add?
It's notepad.
The beauty of notepad is just notepad.
Notepad is supposed to have the following action
items, file edit, format, view, and help.
It's got tabs now.

(01:06:36):
No, I just, Ludwig von Mises talked about
the crackup boom.
It feels like we're living through the crackup
boom.
The crackup boom.
Yeah.
It's, you know, like it's a monetary phenomenon
where things begin to get so expensive that
that's when things begin to break down because

(01:06:59):
of the, it's things because it's as inflation
begins to accelerate, the cracks begin to form.
But this feels like a sort of like
a technology version of the crackup boom where
AI has just caused the whole thing to
fracture.

(01:07:20):
Nobody even knows what they're doing anymore.
The crackup boom?
Yeah.
I've not heard of this.
I like it.
It's a, it's in, I think it's in
human action.
He defines it.
The crackup boom is a term in Austrian
economics coined by Ludwig von Mises characterized by

(01:07:42):
hyperinflation and a flight from a collapsing currency
into real assets.
Meanwhile, if, if there was someone out there,
I've asked comic strip blogger this multiple times,
but he could never make it happen.
Maybe it was just too early in the,
in the life cycle of large language models,
but take our database.
You can download it, follow the links to

(01:08:03):
transcripts, ingest, ingest, ingest for a couple of
months and create the best kick ass podcast
discovery, large language model on the planet earth.
Absolutely.
Because, you know, if I type in, if
I go to Grok, for instance, without using

(01:08:23):
the term, no agenda, let's see, uh, find
three podcasts, podcasts, and give me their URLs
that discuss news media by

(01:08:47):
two middle aged men.
I'm trying to describe no agenda without saying
no agenda by two middle aged men who
podcast twice a week.
Now, is that enough description to find no
agenda?
You want me to ballpark me to add

(01:09:09):
something?
Uh, one of, uh, one of them is
a journalist, but must be a journalist and
the, the other a DJ.
Okay.
Let's see what Grok does.
Super Grok.
I'm sorry.
It's not just Grok.
It's super Grok.
Okay.
The request is to find three podcasts with

(01:09:30):
news and media topics.
It's thinking Dave.
It's thinking each podcast should be hosted by
two middle aged men, one, a journalist, the
other a DJ.
It's still thinking it's going, they must broadcast
twice a week.
And the host should be between 40 and
60 years old.
Let's search for podcasts matching this specific description
to meet the request.
I can see it looking at podcast.apple

(01:09:51):
.com, open.spotify.com, podcast.feedspot, youtube.com.
It has 20 others.
Initial initial search results didn't find much directly
relevant.
So we need to dig deeper.
Oh, hold on to dig deeper.
A new search query is being crafted.
Podcasts hosted by a journalist and DJ discussing
news and media twice a week with middle

(01:10:12):
aged mid twice with middle aged men included.
Now let's do is browsing.
Oh, it's going too fast for me.
Is that it's just flipping through websites.
It's doing all kinds of stuff.
What is happening?
And remember, I also asked for the URLs
because I know that I've, I've tried this
before and it will give me URLs to
things that don't, that don't exist.
Yes.

(01:10:32):
Um, is this agentic?
Is this actually doing web searches in the
background?
Yes.
It's agentic AI.
Yes.
Part of the problem.
Yes.
Here it is.
Some podcasts like the rest is politics, discuss
politics, but lack a DJ host screen grab
hosted by Michael Schneider and Joe Adelian covers
TV commentary.
Let's consider radio shows as many deep as

(01:10:53):
many have DJ.
So it's never going to find it.
It's just not going to find and think
of the cycles.
How much compute am I using here?
This is such a, this is such a,
this goes, this, this is, this is goes
nowhere.
It's pathetic.
Oh my goodness.

(01:11:13):
It's still thinking.
And think, do you want with agentic stuff
as a platform owner?
If you have some sort of website, do
you really want a gentic LLM powered software
sort of crawling all over your website trying

(01:11:37):
to do stuff?
No, but it creeps me out to no
extent.
No, but we were literally making the entire
database available.
I mean, hello.
Yeah.
FTP anybody.
It's still thinking Dave is still thinking now.
It's never, it'll never stop.
It's now it's on NPR.org WNYC.org.

(01:11:59):
It's got 30 websites.
It's now crawling, crawling.
NBC.
Is that what you said?
NBC?
No, not, uh, no.
It, well, it already scrolled off.
I can't see.
Oh my goodness.
Have you ever seen one of these things
just go into like a nonsense loop?
So if you go, if you use open,
um, like I use, um, uh, open web

(01:12:21):
UI, do you use, I think you've used
that, right?
Open web UI.
It lets you have access like, Oh, Lama.
It lets you have access to all the
different models.
Yes.
Yes.
I have.
Yes.
So it'll show you nine.
That's where I have.
Okay.
Yeah.
It gives you a little dropdown box.
When you ask a question, you can drop
the box down and this little wedge under

(01:12:44):
the question, it'll show you all the things
that it's doing internally.
Yes.
That's what, that's what I was just reading.
Yeah.
That's a little wedge.
Yeah.
Like I was using deep seek a few
weeks ago.
Um, actually as part of my day job
to develop, um, some software and it started

(01:13:06):
like debating with itself about how it was
going to answer the question and it went
off the rails.
It, it, I just let it run just
to see what was going to happen.
It was talking to itself for three hours
and it devolved, devolved, devolved into where it

(01:13:27):
was just like in a loop.
It was in a loop and it was
getting more, it was complete.
It was like watching entropy in front of
like display itself.
So super grok thought for three minutes and
13 seconds.
I was unable to find three podcasts that
exactly matched all the criteria.
Each hosted by two middle aged men, one,
a journalist, the other DJ discussing news and

(01:13:48):
media releasing episodes twice a week.
Despite searching various podcast lists, directories and web
sources, no exact match has turned up.
That said, here are three podcasts that share
some similarities hosted by two men discussing news,
politics, media, with at least one having a
journalistic background or releasing episodes twice a week.
They deviate from the journalist plus DJ host
requirement may be of interest.

(01:14:09):
Well, what do you think these are?
I'm sure it's just complied.
They're probably made up.
No, no, they actually exist.
The rest, the rest is politics, the news
agents and Pod Save America.
Well, you could not be further from the
results.
None of those meet the criteria.
None of them.
It's unbelievable.
Yeah.

(01:14:30):
It's a good disaster.
It's sad.
It's sad.
I tell you, it's just sad.
Anyway, but look at the opportunity, though.
Everyone's looking for a podcast, man.
We need discovery.
Well, here's your opportunity.
Apps, a podcast, a podcast centric LLM based
on the index would be amazing.

(01:14:52):
That's a that's a niche.
But, you know, somebody has to find.
But see, that's the problem is they have
to train the whole model on it.
It's not working with agentic A.I. clearly.
No, no, no.
That's that's a train wreck.
Now, if anybody wants to do that.
Hey, man, I'll hook you up.
I'll give you the entire database.

(01:15:12):
I'll talk about the full thing with all
the episodes and everything.
The 200 gig download.
OK, what is the best podcast in the
universe?
How about that?
Let's just try that.
Let's see the best podcast in the universe.
It's a pretty broad question.
There there is an answer.
There is an answer, of course.

(01:15:33):
Do you want to know the answer?
What is the best podcast in the universe?
No agenda show.
Why this American life is the best podcast
in the universe, apparently the one we can't,
the one we can't index because they block
us with their WordPress site.
That is categorically not the best podcast in

(01:15:55):
the universe.
Hilarious.
All those high paid guys are all going
to grok now for some reason.
Two hundred million dollar A.I. experts.
If A.I. is so smart, why do
you have to hire kids for one hundred
million dollars?
Explain me that.
Explain me that, please.

(01:16:15):
What say you?
No, I'm totally on board with this.
I think if I would look, I was
thinking about that very thing today is how
to train an LLM on the index.
Hey, we could do it, man.
But the training part is hard because you
got that's the part I don't understand.

(01:16:36):
Well, because it's cost a lot of compute
and a lot of money.
OK, but we can, of course, ask.
Tell me about Taylor Swift's wedding ring.
Oh, yeah, that that's a that's a no
brainer.
That's immediate.
Yeah.
Let's see.
Here we go.
Thinking.
OK.
Oh, it's going to Vogue.

(01:16:58):
Oh, yeah.
Boom.
There it is.
Design and features.
Yes.
Oh, yeah.
There you go.
It's got everything.
The sparkle, the overall style, the estimated value.
Oh, yeah.
But you want that.
It's there.
No, no question asked.
We're good to go.
We did get some feedback.
Um, let's see who who sent Leslie Joyce

(01:17:20):
sent this.
Adam and Dave, can you two spend some
podcasting to auto time talking about the difference
between pod being an RSS cloud?
Both seem to be great ways to conserve
energy and limit traffic from here.
They seem redundant, but I'm sure I'm missing
details as I'm not a coder.
Thank you for your time, Leslie Joyce.

(01:17:41):
Let's spend just a few minutes.
So.
You could you could you could lay out
three different ways to do immediate feed updates,
and these don't have to be pod podcast
specific digits are all three of these work
with just RSS.

(01:18:05):
Pod ping.
RSS cloud.
And WebSub, which used to be called PubSubHubbub.
RSS cloud and WebSub are very similar.
I mean, they're almost identical.

(01:18:25):
Not sure exactly what happened there.
I don't know why.
I don't know why we needed it.
You know, RSS cloud was developed by Dave
Weiner.
WebSub, I think, was mostly developed by Julian
Genestow.
But and I'm sure I think there was

(01:18:46):
clearly other people involved in PubSubHubbub as well.
But so there but they're really true.
They're truly almost identical.
They both are a subscription mechanism.
So what you have, the idea is you
have a hub and the hub is a

(01:19:07):
server that maintains a subscription list.
And if a client system wants to know
when a particular feed gets updated, you can
send a message to the hub with a
subscription request and say, I want to be
pinged.

(01:19:28):
I want to get a notification when this
RSS feed updates.
Right.
And there's a challenge thing that happens that
goes back and forth where you get a
challenge code and then you have to respond
to the challenge code as a verification mechanism.
And once you once you go back and
forth and go through that handshake, now you're

(01:19:48):
on the subscription list for a certain number
of hours or days.
Then if that is over, there's the problem
right there.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
The subscription, the maintaining subscriptions to things just
doesn't scale big enough.

(01:20:10):
Because you have to re-subscribe every single
time.
You got to constantly re-subscribe and you
have to, and both sides have to be
online at all times.
The hub has to be online, up and
running.
Actually, all three parties need to be online.
The hub has to be up and running.
The publisher has to be sending notifications to

(01:20:33):
the hub and the receiver has to be
online waiting for the webhook.
So everybody has to be up and running
constantly all the time or else the message
gets dropped.
Podping is different than both of those.
Podping uses the Hive blockchain.

(01:20:57):
So it uses a set of API servers
that hold the Hive blockchain.
And so whenever a podping is sent, that
update with the feed URL in it is
written to the blockchain, to this public blockchain.
Now you can have, as long as the

(01:21:18):
update messages are being sent and written to
the blockchain, then the clients that are reading
the podpings back to see when the updates
have happened, they can do that anytime.
They don't have to be online waiting for
a webhook.
They can just go back and walk backwards
through the blockchain and see every update that's

(01:21:40):
ever happened.
So that's the difference.
A beautiful, beautiful description.
By the way, I entered the same query
into chat GPT and I repeat, find three
podcasts, give me their URLs, discuss news media
by two middle-aged men who podcast twice
a week.
One must be a journalist, the other a

(01:22:00):
DJ, and the number one is no agenda.
Now, when you look at the quick summary
table, podcast name, no agenda, host, Adam Curry,
John C.
Dvorak, focus or genre, news and media deconstruction,
scheduled twice a week, Thursdays and Sundays, journalist,
no, DJ, no.
Isn't that interesting?
So we're not a journalist or a DJ.

(01:22:24):
Well, I mean, technically that's accurate.
Yeah.
Okay.
Because especially since booster gram ball is no
longer on the air, you're not DJing.
I guess too many podcasts, brother.
Yeah.
Another one is coming.

(01:22:46):
Oh yeah.
You and you and pastor Jimmy.
Yep.
Yep.
The story is that one in the, when's
that one in the hopper?
We're going to record our first one next
week.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
There'll be no agenda with Jesus.
Nice.
Okay.
Let's thank some people here.

(01:23:07):
We didn't get a lot of boost during
the show.
We didn't get any boost this week except
for CSB.
We got one.
Really?
Yeah.
I wonder what's going on.
I know Bitcoin price drops.
Oh no, no.
I can't spend that.
I got to buy him by the dip.
I was buying the dip, the dip.
Uh, but Martin Linus Kogue always comes in
1701.

(01:23:28):
I got an idea for a hyperlocal podcast.
Have you heard about the John Surd chainsaw
brand?
John Surd is an urban area with about
1000 inhabitants is located near Gothenburg on the
West coast of Sweden.
Well, if you live there, then that's a
great place to do a hyperlocal podcast.

(01:23:48):
Yep.
Uh, and that's it.
That's it.
Wow.
Crazy.
That's it.
I'm not even a pre-show boost.
Well, it is, it's Labor Day weekend and
people are going away and I understand if
it's okay.
We love y'all.
We got some PayPal's.
I guess these are monthlies mixed up cause
we didn't have very many.
We got Jordan Dunville, $10.

(01:24:10):
Thank you, Jordan.
Uh, Dreb Scott, 15 bucks.
Hey, thank you.
Uh, Michael Kimmerer, $5 and 33 cents.
Thank you, Michael.
And Chris Bernardik, $5.
That's our PayPal's.
And we got a brother.
CSB cames in, comes in with a boost
gram, 13,635 sets.
Wow.

(01:24:30):
Thank you.
Uh, through fountain.
He says, howdy, Dave and Adam.
I'd like to recommend the podcast this week
in Bitcoin by Chris Fisher, which is quote
an independent investigative podcast covering Bitcoin, a high
signal news podcast focused on analysis.
You'll find valuable end quote.

(01:24:52):
See also my new website, www.trading.toys.
Yo CSB PS Adam.
Yes.
Corva.
Corva Horowitz.
Corva Horowitz to add a transcript to DHM.
I've told them so many times.
What does Corva mean?
Corva.
It's kind of like a crap in a

(01:25:14):
Polish, I think.
Let me see.
Trading.toys. What is this?
Uh, Satoshi Bitcoin click.
Oh, it's a, it's a converter.
So live Bitcoin price chart.
Wow.
108.66. Oh, we're down, baby.

(01:25:35):
We're down.
Let me see.
I need, um, an API for this would
be good.
CSB, if you can get me one.
Yeah.
Cause I have a use for it.
Oh, okay.
There you go.
It has no information on API.
Uh, oh, we're now we're getting, now we're
getting boost.
Let's see.
We got, uh, user fountain user 1 8

(01:25:57):
3 4 2 0 2 2 5 0
3 8 2 2 6.
Oh, um, have a dip of boost from
the Volte.
And the second booze, a hundred sats.
It's okay.
Plus one on Twib.
Chris, Chris LAS is a legend.
He is indeed a legend.
He is a legend.
He is.
That's one of my go-to podcasts.

(01:26:18):
I love listening to it.
All right, everybody.
Well, we do appreciate anything that you boost
at all.
Uh, so slow weekends, holiday weekend.
Yeah.
Uh, but of course you can go to
podcastindex.org at the bottom.
You scroll all the way down.
There's a red donate button.
Uh, you can use that for your PayPal,
a Fiat fund, coupon donations.

(01:26:39):
Everything goes to keeping the index running.
And of course, all of your boosts and
booster grams, uh, also stay on the node.
If you need any liquidity, let me know.
Happy to open a channel to you.
So if I can finish this silly, see
a line of text bull crap is God
caster app.

(01:26:59):
I can get back to the life.
I got to get to my whole life
with, you know, cause I really have a,
I have a couple of things I seriously
need to do in the index.
I mean, like I really need to, to
work on the index a little bit.
Do you want to tell everybody what the
problem is?
Maybe we can crowdsource a solution because this
is driving you mad.

(01:27:20):
I already fixed it.
Oh, you fixed it?
It's it.
I fixed it with JavaScript.
The problem is the, the, the, well, the
problem is, so there's, there's a fixed, wait,
wait, wait, wait.
I have a couple of those.
Oh, good Lord.

(01:27:41):
There you go.
Yes.
Perfect description.
So there is a div front end web
development blows by the way.
There is a div that is fixed position
on the, on the bottom of the viewport.
This div contains a flex row, which the

(01:28:06):
middle section, which this flex row contains three
divs.
The middle div of the flex row contains
a flex column with three, with three divs.
The outs, the left most of the, of
the flex row, the left most div is
fixed with the right most div is also

(01:28:28):
fixed with so that when you expand and
shrink the viewport, the middle div of the
flex row resizes, it's the only thing that
expands and contracts within that.
So the, and remember the, there's a, the
child of the middle section of the flex

(01:28:48):
row is a flex column and the bottom
most div of that flex column contains a
string of text.
There is seemingly no way to make that
text, um, not overflow

(01:29:14):
and push the right most div off the
viewport.
When in portrait mode.
Uh, it, well, it's really in any mode.
Uh, but when you're in responsive, when you're
in responsive mode, yeah.
So it would be more like, well, if
you're trying to be responsive, meaning you can,

(01:29:37):
you're, it means you're, meaning you're always floating.
So that would, that applies to mobile.
If you're being responsive, it will always push
that right hand content off the viewport.
And look, because you would have to set
a max width on that, on that middle
section, right?

(01:29:58):
You would have to say, go, you can
go this big, but no bigger, but you
don't know how big it can go because
the, the, the screen can go, people can
resize their browser to be really big or
really small.
So you can't set a max size because
if they, if they shrink it down in
the max size, if they shrink it down
to 200 pixels wide and the max size

(01:30:21):
is a hundred pixels, well, then you've, you've
left space on the table.
If it's there, it's just not, there's no
way to know a fixed pixel size.
So you need to use percentages.
Percentages do not appear to work because the
parent div containing div has to have a
fixed width in order for the percentage to
be based on the parent, but it can't

(01:30:43):
have a fixed width.
Because the parent also has to be responsive.
The middle, this middle column of this nested
flex set just doesn't, it's just uncontrollable.
So the only thing I could do was
put a hook on the viewport resize so

(01:31:06):
that if anybody resizes the viewport, then you
get a hook on it, an event listener,
and then do a bunch of calculations to
figure out how wide this thing should be
and then just set it in JavaScript.
Wow.
It's horrible.
How mad did I make you when I
vibe coded the answer and gave it to
you?
I was only slightly irritated.

(01:31:29):
I was like, he doesn't need this, but
hopefully he can get a laugh out of
it.
I did actually laugh because literally it's like
it gave you three possible answers.
The first two I had done three days
ago and the last one was do it
in JavaScript.
I'm like, that's what I'm doing right now.
It's exactly what I'd already been through.

(01:31:50):
Oh man, I felt bad doing it, but
I couldn't resist.
I'm like, try this.
Super grok.
It can help.
I'm sure it can.
Yeah.
I think it's just, I think, I think
it's just a, I think it should work,
but I think it may just be like,
once you get enough nested stuff together like
this, I think it just kind of doesn't,

(01:32:13):
I'm not, I'm not even going to call
it a bug.
I'm just saying behave like, I think this
is into the CSS world where behavior is
undefined, undefined behavior, undefined behavior.
Yes.
All right, brother.
So, well, hopefully you can get through that
and then enjoy your weekend.
You deserve it for sure.

(01:32:33):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We're good.
I'm going fishing in the morning.
Uh, but right now we all know what
you need to do.
What?
What do I need to do?
You got to go clean up the kitchen,
man, before the wife comes home.
Oh, I forgot about that.
All right, everybody.
Thank you very much.
Boardroom.
I think Oystein is coming up next.

(01:32:53):
Uh, and we'll see you next Friday, right
here on podcasting 2.0. You
have been listening to podcasting 2.0. Visit

(01:33:17):
podcastindex.org for more information.
Go podcasting!
They're just Durka Durka Muhammad Jihad.
Durka Durka Durka Durka.