"I Didn't Know I Felt That Way Until I Wrote It Down" Elyse Myers on Healing Through Storytelling

Elyse Myers is a writer, musician, viral sensationmother, and the person who turned her most anxious, "too much" bits into art. She shares about the beautiful mess of creativity, neurodivergence, and the quiet revolution of simply being herself. In this episode, Elyse shares:

• The moment she realized she was living someone else's life + quit.

• Walking away from the career, the platform, and the version of "success" that didn't fit.

• Why telling the story you need is an act of rebellion.

• How she protects her nervous system +stays open without staying exposed.

• When creativity becomes your whole identity + how she took it back.

• Life with anxiety, autism, and "big feelings" + why she stopped fighting them.

• How That's A Great Question was built off one line + why every chapter is unapologetically unedited.

• The New York hotel notebook: when nothing made sense…until it suddenly did.

• Why she stopped trying to "fix" herself + chose to feel, messy and real.

• Curiosity over certainty. Questions over answers. Belonging over perfection.

Follow Elyse Myers here.

Check out Elyse's book That's A Great Question

Book Reccomendation: Bird By Bird by Anne Lamott + The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
No one has all the answers, but when we ask
the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths,
closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist
Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come
together to challenge the status quo and our own ways
of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
And who says?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
So?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Come curious, dig deep, and join the conversation. It's time
to question everything. Hello, Hello, and happy Halloween, well almost Halloween.
I was thinking back to when I was a kid
and how much I loved Halloween. And I see so
many of my friends now who are parents and they

(00:52):
watch their kids kind of do like a parade like
walk around school and they see all the kids' costumes.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
It's so cute. I remember doing that.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
I always dressed up as badass women like I was
Xeno Warrior Princess. I was Gi Jane, which was inspired
by Demi Moore, you know, with her shaved head. And
in recent years I have not dressed up. I just
like felt like I didn't have the capacity to think
about costumes. And I think maybe next year I need

(01:20):
to figure that one out, because it's so fun to
have a creative costume. I remember in La the cosum
Egos party used to be big and I dressed up
as j Low for that one year. But that's like
the last time I remember dressing up. And there were
so many good costumes at the party. Somebody was wearing
this really cute slip dress and they wrote Freud on it,

(01:45):
and she was a Freudian slip, which I thought was
so clever. I love when people are clever like that.
But I can't wait to see what everybody's wearing this year.
And I really hope that you have a fun Halloween, however,
and with whomever your celebrate. I also have one other
thing that I want to address before we jump into
today's episode, which is that last week, the episode with

(02:09):
James Sexton, who's the fabulous divorce attorney, it blew up online.
It did really well, but I actually made a mistake
during my introduction and it was brought to my attention
by one of our wonderful listeners, and she wrote me
the most graceful, kindest email saying that she was going

(02:34):
through a divorce and she was kind of triggered or
upset by the language that I used saying that divorce
was a failure, and.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
I totally agree with her.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
I feel like any relationship I've ever been in is
about growth and learning and evolution.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
I would never consider it a failure.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
So I felt honestly a little embarrassed that I used
that term. And yeah, if anybody else felt that way,
I'm so sorry. And I always try and be thoughtful
with my words and my language, and I'm going to
continue to try to be, but going to be even
more considerate. So to that listener you know who you are,

(03:14):
thank you, And to everybody else, I hope you enjoyed
today's episode. So today is about creativity, how we make things,
what we make from them, and what they make of us.
Elise Meyers is one of those people whose creative process
is the art. She's a writer, a storyteller, and accidental

(03:38):
Internet confidant to millions. She's built this world where panic attacks,
body image, creativity, motherhood, desire, autism, faith, doubt, marriage and
joy can all sit next to each other at the
same table. She has this way of saying the quiet
stuff out loud, so plainly that you just feel your
shoulders drop.

Speaker 2 (03:59):
You know that feeling.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Alise went from recording videos in her living room to
millions of people watching her every move.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
She's known for her stories.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
They're so requested that she took them from the Internet
to analog. Her new book, That's a Great Question I'd
Love to tell You is not a traditional memoir. It's essays, poems,
drawings from her journals. It's in full color and so homey.

Speaker 4 (04:24):
There's just so much of the creative process that looks
like wasting time, but then you make like a masterpiece.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
There's something deeply human about the way Elise moves through
the world. She just doesn't pretend to have it all
figured out. She tells the truth about what it means
to try.

Speaker 4 (04:40):
My creativity is like a gas. It feels like the
more space I am given, the more I can take up.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
So the question we're circling today is how do you
build and protect a creative life that's honest to who
you are. It's time to question everything with Elise Myers.
At least, congrats on the launch of your book. I

(05:07):
was so drawn to the title, of course.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
The book is That's a great Question I'd love to
tell you, because every single time I would lead into
my tiktoks. When I first started making content, I would
ask myself a question and that's a great question I'd
love to tell you. And I accidentally created that hook
for myself, and now it just became this thing that
people know me as So when I do it in person,
people are like, oh my god, she did it. It's

(05:31):
like really funny because I say it normally in my
everyday life, I don't try and put that on and
so yeah, that's kind of where it was birthed from.
And I wanted it to feel like the book was
like this walkthrough of my life, but not in like
memoir style, Like I wanted it to feel like you
were like you already knew me. You know that, like
a story that a friend is going to tell you

(05:53):
about their past or like something that happened in their
day is not it's not going to come with all
the lore that you already know about. It's going to
be like very oddly specific and like, but you know them,
so this makes sense in context of them. And so
all the stories in this are kind of that. It's
not the lore that got me here, but it's it's
the things that made me, very specifically me, and they

(06:17):
don't seem really big to people, but they felt really
big to me because they just they shifted the way
that I see myself in my worldview, even though they
might have been really small moments. So that was kind
of the idea of when I kind of picked all
those stories.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I just learned this word called interiority writing.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Have you heard this?

Speaker 4 (06:36):
What color do you think that word? That phrase is?

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Ooh, I don't know. I've never thought about like synesthesia
in that way.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
No, what does it feel like? Close your eyes?

Speaker 2 (06:47):
I got orange? What did you get?

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (06:49):
I got purple?

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Cool?

Speaker 4 (06:51):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
What does that mean to you?

Speaker 4 (06:55):
I don't know. Actually, there's no reason for it. I
just when I learn a new word, I like to
think about how it sounds and feels, and what color
it is. I think helps me remember it. I want
to like use it, you know, like when words just
sound good in your ear?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yes, okay, so they stick with you?

Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:09):
And you and I are a lover of words, lover
of questions, and so to me, one of the marks
of a great writer is that they're able to sort
of string together sentences and meaning that you feel in
your own interior in your mind, but can't quite figure
out how to say or communicate out loud. And I
think a lot of your stories because these are like

(07:31):
short essays.

Speaker 4 (07:32):
Yeah did that.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
There was a lot of awkward, funny, surprising, but then
they sort of like sucker punch you with meaning. And
in the book you say that I've always been someone
who needed to tell a story to understand how I
felt about it. So to me, I'm like, okay, you
process through storytelling. When did you realize that that was

(07:54):
your way through the world.

Speaker 4 (07:56):
I think the storytelling part started when I was really young,
because there was a lot of like I think chaos
happening when I was younger, especially I was I was
the youngest, the only girl like seven, eight and ten
years older than me my brothers, so like big age gaps,
and I think I just learned if anyone's gonna listen,
it's got I've got to I've got to be really

(08:18):
interesting and like captivating, you know. And so that's like
a little little trauma lore, but like you know, it's
it informed the way that I learned how to communicate
with others. But then I learned it was much more
comfy for me to kind of monologue style a conversation
rather than like figure out how to do the exactly

(08:39):
right back and forth and like, am I talking too much?
Am I not talking enough?

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Like?

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Am I coming across as kind? Or we're angry? Am
I looking at them enough? Am I looking away too much?
And doing they need to go? And so there's a
lot of clarity in telling a story because there's a beginning, middle,
and end and if a person wants to know more,
they can ask follow up questions about it, and if
they don't, they don't, and I'm like, great, done, cross

(09:06):
that off the list, goodbye, you know. And so I
think that I've always felt really naturally comfortable speaking to
somebody that way. And then when I learned you could
like write those down, like incredible, you know, because now
I can share those with people and not have to
talk to them, it was like it was amazing. And

(09:27):
I've always journaled as well. And so yeah, I think
when I used to say that when I could write
a song about it, I was processing it, and when
I could make it funny or make it like into
something that's not like musical, I have like healed from it.
And so that was always my stepping stone for memories.

(09:49):
I have and then turning them into like art, and
knowing when it was time for me to let it
go and let it give it to somebody else. So yeah,
I think I've just always framed what I think and
how I feel and what I remember that way.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
The beginning of your book opens in Anaheim, California, in
two thousand and two Halloween night, when a magic eight
ball keychain named Lucy became your secret sidekick. Yes, and
honestly it felt like such a metaphor. After I close
the book, I was like, Okay, this is such a
metaphor for how you've navigated the world, which is a
little anxious and very funny, but also very brave in

(10:27):
your own way. And I'm wondering if that's what you
think people gravitated to online.

Speaker 4 (10:34):
I would say probably yes. But I think that people
can tell when someone is being that way performatively because
they which is also beautiful, because they want to be
that way, and I want them to genuinely feel like
comfortable in their skin to share that with somebody else

(10:54):
so that it lets them in and gives them permission
to be that way too. I think that I've reached
a point in my life where I have become very
neutral with all of those feelings, like the anxious and
the scared and the overwhelmed and the overstimulated and the
autistic and all of it just like all of it
is just my skin, Like it's me. It's I like pizza,

(11:15):
and it's hot outside, and I had a panic attack
this morning, and I have a dinner tomorrow and it's
really exciting, you know, Like it's just I think that
I was able to make this such a normal topic
of conversation and it wasn't like it didn't feel overwhelmed
and scary, and so people could relate to that of like,
I can just be this way. I don't have to
fix myself or change myself or be something better or different.

(11:37):
I can just like exist this way because she's doing
it and it's going fine for her, so it could,
you know what I mean. So I think that, Yeah,
I think that people see themselves in me and gravitate
towards that, and I really enjoy that. Fun facts I note.
Can I did you know that that was my childhood home?
Can I show you?

Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Please?

Speaker 4 (11:56):
That was so that drawing the door to California is
my childildhood home.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
Oh cool, yes, that's awesome.

Speaker 4 (12:05):
Do you have a black and white or a color version?

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Color?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Color?

Speaker 4 (12:08):
Okay, so you got to see all the mpages and stuff. Yeah,
I'm so excited. Sorry, I mean, I just keep showing
every single person that has eyeballs that because I'm really
excited about it.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Well, for everybody listening, there's drawings in your book and
also some text that looks handwritten, and that's sort of rare.
Is like, first of all, that means that the publisher
was taking they use some they use extra money to
use color print. They really are betting on your book.
They're thinking it's going to do well.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
I went in there when I sold the book, and
I was like, this is what I want. It's like
I want for color I have, I'm illustrating the whole thing,
I'm writing the whole thing. I'm this is what I
want to do for the cover. I want to read
my own audiobook. I want it to be sound designed.
I want the Kindle version to look as pretty as possible,
like you know, I had all of I knew exactly
and I was like, if you don't want that, totally fine,

(12:59):
this is what the book will look like no matter what.
And like to find a publisher that was willing to
say yes to that. I mean, one day that will
be a whole story on its own, not now, but like,
it was a really powerful and magical experience and I
just did not give up on it, and I believed
in it so much, and to a lot of people

(13:22):
that yeah, yeah, yeah, almost everyone, yeah, I mean everyone
but one. I mean, it's expensive. It doesn't actually make
any logical sense to do it that way the first time,
but that's okay. I wanted to be working with people
that they had enough faith in me, and they saw
the track record, they believed in me and trusted me,
because it takes that much trust for me to give

(13:42):
them my book, and so I want that back, and
luckily I have found that in HarperCollins and William Morrow,
which I'm really grateful for.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Now.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
I didn't say this to them specifically, but in my mind,
I was like, I'm very good at my job, and
I hope that I get that trust in somebody that
I'm partnering with because I'm giving you my life stories.
That's about as this is about as intimate of a
thing as I could give you besides my body. I
feel like like honestly and so, which is a crazy
thing to say. Sorry, as I said that, I was like,
that's too serious, but like it just it's real. Yeah,

(14:14):
And so not only that, but there's like the handwritten
that's my actual handwriting from my journals, Like it's just
it's literally my life. And so I didn't like the picture,
like the cover, Like I took that film picture. I
designed the set for this and we went to Austin
and took this and it was such a cool day,
Like everything about this book has been so specifically chosen

(14:36):
that to finally let people see it and read it
or hear it experience it is like, like I can't wait.
It's been such a labor of love. I'm like, finally
people can see it, you know, I'm just so excited.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
So, Alisa, I want to ask you about your rise online,
because like, one day you're posting videos from your living
room and suddenly millions of people are leaning in. Yes,
that's got to be one of the weirdest feelings in
the world. As a person who loves questions, what were
you asking yourself as soon as all of that stuff
started happening to you.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
I didn't set out to be like I'm gonna be famous,
like or I'm going to have millions of people watch
me do what I do. So I think at first
I was I was questioning whether this was a good
idea or not. I felt really exposed. I felt nervous
that I had like opened this door for people to
like immediately be in my home with me and my family,

(15:31):
and I was like, I just I didn't realize I
invited this many people over, you know, That's kind of
how it felt. I was like, there's not enough food
in the fridge, and like I don't even have a family,
I don't even own enough sil rower for this. Like
that's kind of how it felt. And I continue to
just question, like do I want this? If yes, make
another video tomorrow. If not, never post again, and it'll
go away. Like I knew every single day I woke up,

(15:52):
I was choosing to move this forward, and so I
had to really decide with every single thing I posted,
checking with my family make sure that with worked for
the life that we wanted for ourselves, and I was
taking it one day at a time really helped all
of it not feel so overwhelming, and it allowed me
to like really decide how I wanted this to look
very specifically and what I didn't want to do, and yeah,

(16:14):
like just just just staying really grounded. I guess in
the beginning of it, trying to decide what I wanted
this look like, I guess it.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, was it exciting because I can imagine too, like
when your videos popped off, like they really were getting
lots of views, that this is like a whole new
financial place to be in.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
Also, was that overwhelming? Was that exciting?

Speaker 4 (16:38):
Yeah? I think so. I was running a business at
the time, So I was a web developer and I
owned a pretty successful like web development, coding, and design company.
So I was running that full time and just had
a baby. So when this happened, at first, I was like,
this is just a thing I'm doing in the morning,
my job before my job, kind of a thing, well,
my hobby, my hobby before my job. Basically, it wasn't

(17:00):
until it got to the point where I had to
choose how much time I wanted to be spending where
because it didn't financially make sense anymore to not choose
content creation. And I mean, if I didn't want to
do it, I could easily. I loved my business but yeah,
I was like, I think that this makes more sense.
I can be home with my family more, I can
be more relaxed. It turns out you can start traveling

(17:23):
a lot. So it changed really quick. But like, yeah,
it was the best and most right decision for my family,
but it was overwhelming. I remembered thinking so many times,
I'm so grateful I know how to run a business.
I know how to look at contracts, I know how
to make deals. I know what a good deal is,
what a bad deal is when I'm getting taken advantage of.
I had a family, and I was like a little older,

(17:45):
and so I just kept thinking, I'm so glad this
didn't happen to me when I was like seventeen. Like
I couldn't. I honestly couldn't imagine. It's just different. It
was so different when this was happening to me at
like thirty years old or twenty nine. I guess time, No,
twenty eight. My god, I've been doing this for four years.
What year is it? Yeah? Four years this October? Crazy? Wow, Wow,

(18:10):
it feels honestly like it happened a year ago. It
blows my mind that it's actually been that long, which
is cool, but yeah, it was overwhelming. And I remember
driving from getting groceries and it was like the first
week the taco story had gone big, and my mind
was all over the place, like it was like my
brain was just had a fire hose of water on

(18:32):
it and I couldn't hear or see anything else but
wondering what was happening. And you know, it just felt
like a lot of attention and I couldn't decipher between
real life and like millions of people seeing me on
the internet. It just felt all real, like I was
like just standing on a stage with million people staring
at me. Twenty for seven.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Wow, were you reading in like the entire comment section.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
I yeah, I used to respond to as many comments
as I possibly could, But it wasn't really that. It
was just I mean, the human brain is not meant
to know that millions of people are watching them. That
is a very bizarre and like biologically unstable situation, you know,

(19:14):
neurologically like. And then when that is sustained for long
periods of time, it's like you have got to figure
out how to turn that off, that awareness off. Even
when I go out, because people will come up and
say hi, and I love saying hi to people. And
this has changed the way I even like exist in
a physical space because if I'm making eye contact with

(19:35):
everybody that I see, like I would have just walked
around and just looked around a room, right, But now
I am always ready for someone to come up and
interrupt me in a good way, like just I stay
interruptible with what I'm doing. So I have to decide
if I want to go out. Am I in a
place where if someone walks up to me, I feel
good having a conversation. If not, I just don't go out.
And so it changes how you live, and so you

(19:57):
have to turn that awareness off and really focus on
like what am I doing? What do I need to do?
Where's my body? What's around me right here? And like
am I getting my stuff done? And everything else is
just extra? It's interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
So did you ever watch Queer I for the Straight Guy?

Speaker 4 (20:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (20:15):
So the reboot there's a guy named Karamo on there
who's a friend of mine from when I first moved
to LA and I remember him telling me that when
Queery really took off, they would do sort of these
conventions and all five guys had different expertises, and Karamo
was sort of the therapist, the counselor, and so he
was like everyone like people would go to Bobby and

(20:38):
talk about design or whatever, and the people that would
come to me would trauma dump because they were like,
I was the feelings person, and he was like, even
though I have big feelings, Like, it was really a
lot for me because you have big feelings and a
lot of your content talks about big feelings.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
Is that a similar experience and how do you navigate that?

Speaker 4 (20:59):
Oh? Yeah? I mean I was just having this conversation
last night with Jonas. I can't really keep my cameos open.
I want to. I want to so badly, but like
almost every cameo I get, and I have a round
I need to finish today and we'll see how it goes.
But I'm like, okay, we're gonna stop in. I'm so
honored at first and foremost, I'm so honored that someone

(21:22):
would see me and be like, I want to give
her this information because I trust her with it and
she's so safe that it wouldn't even be a question
in their mind, Like what a gift it is to
be that for somebody. And then I think there's a
layer of it where when that's a one off situation,
it's beautiful, and when in the context of relationship, it's
really beautiful. I think out of context of a relationship,

(21:45):
and when it's happening one hundred times a day to you,
it can feel so overwhelming because I feel things so deeply,
like I will wear that. I will, I will have
that feeling like it's my own, and I will take
it with me in my personal life. And I do
not just like see it, read it and go oh,

(22:08):
I'm sorry you're going through that, and then walk away
from it. The very thing that makes me good at
what I do and a person that people want to
follow or relate to or share with, is also the
thing that could destroy me if I let it, And
so I have to be very careful with protecting my emotions.

(22:29):
And that's why I don't really go through the comments anymore,
not because they're bad, they're so kind, but I think
it like it's a lot of feedback that you hold
or like, you know. I don't have my direct messages
open on most social platforms because I get a lot
of those kind of messages and just I want to

(22:51):
be as available and as open as I possibly can
but there does become a point where you have to
protect your mind because for that one person, it's like
they feel like they got to share that with me.
But when it's fifteen times in a row, it's like
I just need a second, you know, And I just
it's hard to process all of that. There are still

(23:12):
stories I'm thinking of right now that someone told me
like three years ago that I just I'll never I'll
never be able to let that go. And I think
about that family all the time. Yeah, it's a hard
it's a hard balance because I don't want that to
go away. I want to be someone that people trust
and want to share with. It's good to communicate that
to people. I think that a lot of people are
scared to be honest about that because they don't want

(23:36):
to seem mean. And I think the kindest thing I
could do for people that love me is tell them
how I best feel loved in that. And I think
it's really valuable to like communicate that to people, and
so I try my best to do that in a
way that helps them understand. It's not because I don't
want to hear it. It's just I'm not a licensed therapist,

(23:56):
so I don't know how to deal with these feelings
like I would person talked to a therapist about these yes,
receiving them. So like I wish I could give you help,
I can't. I want to point you in the right direction.
So yeah, I experienced a lot of that, but it's
gotten a little it's gotten better since I've started to
open up about that. Online.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Well, I remember because I'm online, like I like, correct,
I sort of you and I I were two years apart.
I'm thirty four, and so I think that we're in
this interesting age group that has one foot in and
one foot out of the digital world because we sort
of grew up without Instagram and YouTube in the same

(24:36):
way that gen Z did. And so I grew up
in the sort of like influencer world in LA when
I got here for my career, and so I'm very
aware of the internet. And I remember, at least popping off,
I heard your name everywhere and there were so many
like you had you were you were like the big
new person on Instagram, on TikTok. You took some time

(25:00):
I'm off from the internet, and then you came back online.
What made you want to come back?

Speaker 4 (25:06):
Coming back? Truly like was me deciding that I'm always
going to be a creative person and no matter where
I'm creating, whether it's on the Internet or like writing
songs or making crochet animals or anything, you know, making
silly videos, anything, I will always be that person. And
so like you also need to turn off the output

(25:30):
sometimes you have to just input. You have to like
have enough and you can and feel full creatively to
then give back out words you know and create and
make things. And I think that resuming posting and like
just coming back onto the online content creation world was
me accepting that, like, no matter what form of no

(25:50):
matter what medium I'm creating on, I will always be
a creative And so yeah, that was just a really
important season for me of like learning how to accept
myself as a maker and really fall in love with
that again and make it fun again and go back
to the way I felt when I first started it.
It was really essential for me to fall back in

(26:11):
love with it. So that's kind of what happened when
I started posting again.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
Is that when you decided you were going to write
your book.

Speaker 4 (26:17):
No I wrote. I started writing my book. I was
five months pregnant with Oliver, when I started doing the
book meetings, but I had decided a year before that,
so this really has been going on since like twenty
twenty two. It's you write your first book like twenty
times over for like three years, and then the second

(26:38):
book is like, well, see you in six months. Like
it's a very fast turned around, which is funny.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
You write no, I mean, I write for fun, but.

Speaker 4 (26:50):
I think you should write thank you. No one likes
words like that and doesn't write Come on, what do
you write for fun?

Speaker 2 (26:57):
One day?

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I write down my feelings. Sometimes I do find it therapeutic.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
But hand with your hand or a computer a.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Computer, and you know what, everybody that I admire says
do it by hand. So I'm wondering if I need
to switch over.

Speaker 4 (27:10):
Oh yeah, I will tell you right now. There is
such a brain and body connection when you are writing.
You think something and feel something, and then it takes long,
like a lot longer to write it. So by the
time you start the sentence, it's already a more clarified
thought by the end of it, but your hand is
catching up to the writing process. I have written sentences

(27:33):
down and then read it back like immediately, not like
I don't ever read my journals back. A therapist told
me you should never ever go back and read your
journals because that version of you doesn't exist anymore. So
it's like eating expired food. It's like, yeah, so I
thought that was really cool. The only reason I had
to go through my journals was for this book. But
that's not a typical practice for me, and I enjoy that.

(27:55):
I enjoy it's really freeing. Actually, like sometimes I'm like,
I'll just burn it. I don't know, yeah, but I
will write something immediately go. I didn't even know I
felt that way because it just came out of me.
Like it's like you're there's a very very powerful thing.
It's not like a one plus one situation. It's like
a one plus one equals five when you are you know,
it's not like I'm thinking it, feeling it, writing and

(28:16):
processing it. It's like this magic happens when your hand
writes it and then your eyes see it, and then
you're like, if you say it out loud, your ears
hear it. It's it's really really cool. So my husband
knows if we're like, you know, some we get in
a tiff or something. When we first got married, He's
the kind of family that they're like, we're not leaving
till we work it out right now.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
And I'm just like, ew, no punch you in the face,
no get away from me, Like I don't I'm not want.
I don't want to process this in real time in
front of you. What do you want to get like
iced out forever? Right?

Speaker 2 (28:47):
That's a good point.

Speaker 4 (28:48):
Well, it's just totally it's it's both are not right
or wrong. Like, and I love that he loves communication,
but I am just not a person I will just mute.
I've never talked in my life, Like, I need to
just write what I'm saying, what I'm feeling down because
everything feels so jumbled, and then when I can write it,
I can process it and I can go back and
be like, this is what I was feeling, what I
meant to say, which is side note, but it's always

(29:10):
been something that's helped. So what I would do is
I would get a little journal and I would start
a practice. It doesn't have to be every day, but
I think that you'll really I think you would enjoy it.
You like words, Oh.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, thank you?

Speaker 1 (29:25):
So you said you went back into your journals yeah,
had you written about memories and then you turn them
into essays for the book or talk to me about
your process here.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
Yeah. So some of the journal entries are just from
like a lot of them are like transitional into different stories.
So the actual essays and poems, those were all written now.
So like i'll show you an example, Like one story
is just a contract. I just wrote. A contract just

(29:54):
makes me laugh every time. Sorry, every time I see it.
It's called the rules on face touching as it relates
to facial hair, as it relates to surprise beers.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
I think.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
So a lot of the essays and stories are either
allegorical or as literal as I possibly can get without
getting sued. So those were now. But then things like
you know, when I go and mine and my Jonas's stories,
it'll be oh, show yeah, it'll be like story and
then it will go into my journal entry from that

(30:26):
time of me being at like his house or something
like that. They're more like transitional. But the actual writing
process I had no idea where to start because I
didn't want to make it chronological. It's not chronological. There's
so many holes in the stories of my story of
my life that I had to like find ways to
visually tell you you don't need to ask any questions

(30:48):
about how we got here, like we're just we got
we're here, so now be here. Because I was like,
I don't want anyone trying to make a bridge to
two places that aren't related, but I just like teleport
yourself to this new place and now we're here. And
so I didn't know how to start writing that. So
I just was like, I'm just going to write because
I write short stories and perform them on Instagram sometimes,

(31:09):
so it's like, I'm just going to start writing a
story like that, like if I were just to be
posting it online, and then I was like, okay, cool,
I'll write another one. But honestly, a lot of these
came from me reading a lot of like short stories
and just getting inspired by what I had around me.
And I hadn't had the idea of like actual funky

(31:29):
poems in terms of like more artistic than anything else,
more beautiful and allegorical until I was in New York
and I took a writer's retreat. I got a hotel room,
like a really pretty hotel room, because I was going
to stay in it. Basically the whole week and I
wrote my book in that room. I stayed there for
it every night and I laid on the floor and

(31:51):
I wrote my book and I remembered sitting there. It
was like day three and I had not written a
single thing, but I had read and I was like,
how can I be a writer if I'm not writing?
This is crazy. I was sitting there on the ground
and the closet was up, it was in front of me,

(32:14):
and I had my jackets hanging, and I had this
flannel or this like kind of yeah flannel jacket hanging
and I was like, I wonder if that flannel is
judging me right now, cause it the way that the
closet door is really slated, so you can kind of
see through always even if they were closed. And I
was like, Ah, this shirt has just seen me this
whole the whole three days, not write anything. And I

(32:37):
was like, I'm going to write a story about this
shirt judging me for not writing, and all of the
times it's seen me, you know, like walk in front
of the closet or pace or do everything other than write.
And I started writing it from the perspective of a shirt.
And that was the first poem that I ended up.
It changed so much, it's very different now than what

(32:58):
it started as. But I was like, here, I'm going
to read you the one line that I realized this
this is the book. This is the book. The story
is called His and Hers. So I wrote, when she
saw me, she cried. Her face looked happy, and her
voice sounded sad, way too sad, definitely more sad than
her face looked happy. And I drew a little pie

(33:20):
chart of like it was like seventy five percent sad,
twenty five percent like happy. And I was like, it's
the visuals, Like we're gonna have visuals and it's in
I'm gonna write poems and not all of them have
to be like straightforward essays of my life, and like
this is the last page of that story, and like
the words are like going around with the text and
it's like the And then I was like, oh my gosh,

(33:42):
the words are going to be the pictures sometimes, so
like if there's not an illustration, the words will look
like shel Silverstein's status. And I was like, oh my god,
I've got it, Like I just I will never forget
it all clicking because I had it was like I
had all these individual pieces, but none of them were
to the same puzzle. So I'm like, great, I've got

(34:04):
a puzzles worth of pieces, but literally they're all a
different picture, and it doesn't make sense. Why do I
have all of these? Who gave these to me? I
realized they were like all upside down or like a
like flipped over. So I just started like uncovering all
of them, and it's like, it's this, It's all the
same picture now it all was. It started rolling from there.
It was really cool.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Do you think that you felt this like burst of
it all coming together those puzzle pieces because you gave
yourself some time alone in that hotel room?

Speaker 4 (34:33):
For sure? Oh yeah, I could not. And that was
what's so interesting is I was only going to go
for like three days, and Jonas said, no, minimum, you
need to be there a week because the first four
days are just you settling in. You're in a new place,
you're sleeping in a bed that is in yours, You're
learning where everything is in the hotel room, you're catching

(34:54):
up on sleep that you've been missing because you're a
working mom and just exhausted. Who we our son was
still going through his heart stuff, and so I was
just in fight or flight. How can you be like
creative when your body is like are we going to
die today? Like that's everything extra just goes out the window.
And I gave myself space and I was reading so much.

(35:17):
I walked around the city because at the beginning, I
was like, I don't deserve to go outside and walk
around and spend time because I've not earned that break.
But so much of the creative process is input, Like
I was saying, like, you have got you have got
to have enough inputs so that there's enough to come out.
And that input looks like for me going on walks, reading,

(35:41):
listening to music, watching TV, not talking to anybody, because
that is output. That is now like releasing steam in
a way that I could have been putting it on paper.
And like, there's just so much of the creative process
that looks like wasting time. But then you make like
a master. I'm not saying this is a master, but
you make you make art, and you wouldn't have There's

(36:05):
no way you would have been able to make that
if you Sorry, I just love this conversation. I've got
a book called Someone Who Will Love You In All
of Your Damaged Glory. And it's a it's a collection
of short stories. And I bought it my second day
in New York for that trip. I was walking. I
went on a walk and I saw it in the
window of his bookstore, loved the cover, bought it, read
it in one day. And that informed so much of

(36:28):
my writing style in this And so there's no way
if I wouldn't have gone on a walk and wasted
some time. So that, yeah, that was like the space
I gave myself and my brain the permission to not write,
knowing and trusting myself that when I have wide open space,
I will fill it. But I have to have the space.
Like my creativity is like a gas. It feels like

(36:49):
the more space I am given, the more I can
take up.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
And yeah, hearing you talk about your creativity, thank you. No, really,
did you always consider yourself a creative person or is
that sort of a new hat that you wear.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
I don't think I considered it like an adjective of me.
I think it was like I create things anything I could, diy,
I did any I was always artistic, but I never
saw it as like a gift. It seemed like a
huge problem. Because it was mean. Well it was it's

(37:23):
time consuming, and when you're a kid, it's like expensive,
and it's a hobby that is very superlative to like
things that are actually helpful, Like I was terrible at school,
but I could jaw you a mean picture, and like,
but then you live in a world where it's like
at that time, now kids, oh man, it's so cool

(37:43):
because we were just like you could be anything you
want to be, but like people mean it. People said
that to you. But people say that to you, like
back in the nineties, and it's like, you could be
anything you want to be unless it doesn't make you money. Yeah,
and you know, and and also you need a degree
so unless you're going to be a full time artist.
It wasn't always that harshly said to me. It was
more just this like understanding of like, you can like

(38:06):
things and make things, but as long as it don't
get in the way of all the things that are
going to make you successful. I think now I'm realizing
my greatest strength is my ability to teach myself anything
I want, because how hard could it be. And then
knowing like within that if I want to make something,
I can make it. I don't need to be a

(38:28):
pop star to write a pop song and make it
really cool, like at least just one. You know, it's
like any you could, it's fine, anyone could do it.
That sounds silly, And I'm not undercutting how hard being
a creative is or how hard music writing is, but
like just releasing yourself from having to make it perfect
and make it monetizable and make it your job, I

(38:49):
think really helped me see myself as a creative and
not just like I do create. I don't know if
I answer made sense.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
It makes a lot of sense, Okay.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
I actually just interviewed an author of fantasy named Lee Bardugo,
and she did a ted talk about great art, and
she was like, for her, great art comes when you
push past the discomfort, because so many people think like, oh,
if it's if it's not working. Similar to that story
that you just shared, where like you had three days

(39:17):
where like nothing was coming out and people would be like,
maybe this isn't for me, and you just pack it
up and leave that hotel room and go back to
your family. And she was like, once you get past
the point of that discomfort, that's when the magic happens
and She likened it to this question I love. She
was like, it's sort of like romance. We ask everybody
how did you meet? But really the better question is

(39:39):
how have you stayed in love? And it's like, how
have you pushed past that discomfort to create this art?
So your story made total sense.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
I loved it.

Speaker 4 (39:47):
I also, I want to reiterate, Yeah, it's very hard
to write music. And I'm not saying anybody can be
a pop star. I have a lot of respect. I
have a lot of friends that do that for their jobs.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
I want to clarify, Yeah, Max Martin is very talented.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Meghan Trainer out there, I love you.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:03):
No. But the last the songwriter, Oh, she's so girl.
She's a weapon, Oh my god. And not just a
great songwriter. She's an incredible audio engineer and producer. She
can track the hell out of your voice. She is.
She has a studio in her house and I have
watched her actually work and it is mesmerizing. I would

(40:24):
love just like live feed footage of her tracking in
a studio and herself or other people. She's a genius.
And I know that she's not like putting all that
out there because she loves her music as well, and
that's like what she likes to share. But the girl
is an actual, like genius, so.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
I'll just say that.

Speaker 4 (40:42):
So the last story in the book is called A
Very Short Novel and its sequel. It started because I
was like, so after New York, I almost finished the manuscript,
and I knew there was going to need to be
a little bit more added in, but I was comfy
with where it was. I was like, this is a book.
It's going to be more of a book, but this

(41:02):
is a book. Even if it just went out as
it is right now, I would be very proud to
tell people I wrote this book. But then I don't
know what happened. I got in my head because it
was like I hadn't drawn the illustrations yet and I
just lost the vision of it, like almost like I
completed that thing that felt like a mountain, and then

(41:22):
I felt like I was I was starting over because
now I had to go through this next process of
like drawing it. And then I was like, I'm not
an artist, Like why did I say I would do this?
And so I started spiraling in my closet and I
was like, Okay, my brother's an artist. My brother's an
incredible artist, which is why I always wanted to draw,
and I was like, I could, I could commission him

(41:43):
to do this, and then like I should, like do
what did I need a ghost writer? Like sh should
should I have not written my own book? It was
like I just really lost it, and I tried to
start writing a story because I knew I wanted something
at the end and I hadn't gotten there yet because
that point it was a lot of unrelated stories that
were good, but there was no like ending, you know

(42:06):
that really felt like it it was cohesive with the
rest of it. And I had such bad writer's block,
I like could not write. So I wrote about having
writer's block, and then as I did that, I realized,
when you end up reading it, it's like, it's really cool.
It ties back into this exact feeling I had when
I was really little and I would write, but then

(42:28):
I didn't know what else to write, and then I
like it just it all came together. And it was
because I was spiraling in my closet with having writer's block,
and I know, you know the saying like depression can't
hit a moving target. Yes, okay, So it was it's
kind of like that, like, how could you possibly have
writer's block if you are actively typing a sentence in
a word document. It doesn't matter what it is, right,

(42:50):
it could literally be an inner monologue, but like you
don't have writer's block. That is like it's a it
is truly like a mentality that you just have to
not accept. It's like I didn't say what I'm writing
is good, but it I'm writing and writer's right, and
so that's what I'm going to do. And pushing past
that was truly like I've decided that this is who

(43:12):
I am and I love it and I'm not going
to let myself take it away because that would be
wild and silly. So yeah, that was how the last
story ended up coming into play, and it truly is
the most powerful story in the book I've tried. I
cried the whole time I tracked that I'm in sound
booth and I look over at the audio engineer. His

(43:32):
name is Chris, and I am holding it together. Obviously
I'm embarrassed because there's a producer in my ears, sound
engineer out of the booth and everyone knows. Just don't
say a word, like I'll get back into it. We're
doing it two words at a time, Like I'm like,
how is this going to even sound like real sentences
when it's like, you know, pieced together. And I look

(43:53):
over finally and I like make eye contact with Chris,
and Chris is crying and he's got like a little
like tissue and I was like, Chris, you can't cry,
you hav to cry, and he's just like I've been
crying this whole time. And it's just it's a special book, dude,
It's special. I have had so many people that are like,

(44:14):
I'm not readers, and I read your book and it
I loved it. People like I'm not your target audience,
but I have been enjoying it this whole time, like
this producer in my ear, And it just feels like
there's something magical about it that's hard to explain that
has allowed me to connect to so many people that
don't see themselves in the book world. But I'm not

(44:37):
going to say it's a book for people that don't
like books, because it's not. It's a great book, and
it's a book for people that love books, but also
it's a book for people that just love really good
stories and to look at beautiful things and to feel
something and people that are visually inspired and if you
like scrolling on Pinterest, you're gonna like the book like
it's that kind of feeling. So yeah, it's just been

(44:59):
a joy to right. It is instilled so much confidence
in me.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
It's restored, like hearing that.

Speaker 4 (45:05):
Yeah, yeah, I'm like I after doing this. No, you
can't tell me nothing. I can do it.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
If you've been through childbirths, so for you to say
that means you.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
Oh, really, oh this is harder than it. I mean, yeah, no,
having a child compared to this is a child. This
is like twelve children. I wrote this book so many
times over it's again, but I'll tell you it's like
it was worth every every every single meltdown in a
closet and trip to New York and crying on Zoom

(45:37):
with people that have already paid me money to write
this book, of me saying I'm going to give you
your money back. I can't do it. I literally can't
do it. I don't know why you I even said
I could. I was I was like high on coffee
that day. I'm not even sure what I was saying.
It's been worth that because when you have the physical
final product. It actually happened. We did it, we made it.

(45:58):
It's a physical manifestation like so many different things that
I had to push past and believe about myself to do.
And I'm so I'm really proud. I'm really proud of it.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
In the about the author, it says Elise has three
simple goals behind everything she makes to make people feel known, loved,
and like they belong. So as I'm hearing you, I'm thinking, Okay,
you must have in part written this book for a lease.
Oh but you're also so outwardly focused. People won't hear

(46:31):
this part. But you asked me a ton of questions
before we even started recording. You are really a person
who thinks about other people, so I know that other
people came into your purview when writing this.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Who did you write this book for.

Speaker 4 (46:44):
It's a good question. I'm gonna cry. I wrote it
for my sons. I dedicated it to my sons and
me and Jonas. I wrote it for them because they
deserve to know all of the things that brought me

(47:05):
to them and why they're here. And man, I see
so much of me in them. And if they are
even a quarter as anxious as me or a quarter
as curious or overwhelmed or like driven or creative, like
they deserve to have books in the world and stories
in the world that make them feel known, loved and

(47:28):
like they belong, and that like they can then give
that to other people, that that acceptance and that clarity
that like, I am great just as I am and
and I'm not. It's like, it's not like i'm I'm
I'm people will put up with me. It's actually such
a gift that you are this way, and it is
a gift that you can give people that acceptance of

(47:50):
themselves as well. And so every single story I wrote
in here, I first wrote for the young version of
me that needed this when I was little, and the
validation and the guidance and the self acceptance and the
permission to just like myself. And then after that I
was like, I didn't get that, So I'm going to
give that to everybody coming up after me. Yeah, that

(48:13):
was who the book was for, and within that everyone else,
you know, because they are the first, and then everyone
else gets to enjoy it too.

Speaker 2 (48:21):
That was really beautiful, Lily.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
I'm going to ask you some fun rapid fire questions right.

Speaker 4 (48:26):
I love fun.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Rapid fire, okay, amazing.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
One of the many things I value about you and
what you put out into the world is that you
do not pretend to have it all figured out. What
is something that you're still unlearning?

Speaker 4 (48:41):
This is not a rapid fire question. Let me see,
let me see.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
It could be personal, it could be societal, it could
be from your parents.

Speaker 4 (48:47):
I think reacting when I feel overwhelmed. I have a
oh I'm not wearing it right now. I have a
bracelet friendship bracelet. I wear it. I made it says
it's all good, buddy. That phrase when I break a
glass my like, it's my immediate thought, like it's all good, buddy.
When I'm angry at someone, because I feel like my

(49:08):
justice sensitivity is like flaring up, the first thought I
have when I'm angry at them is it's all good, buddy.
Like there's so much compassion and like kindness and just
acceptance in that phrase that when you say it, no
matter what situation you're saying it in, either to myself
or to someone else, calms my nervous system immediately, because
I just am so used to being so reactionary, because

(49:28):
everything that goes wrong feels like the end of the world,
and it's usually not. And so yeah, unlearning that like
unlearning that like immediate just like reaction because I feel
like I'm in trouble or getting you know, feeling like
that control has been taken from me. Like it's all good, buddy.
I love that phrase. And it's not like everything's gonna
be okay or because sometimes it isn't. You know, sometimes

(49:50):
it's not a good situation. But it's like it's like
such a breath really quick, like it's all good, buddy,
Like we'll figure it out whatever needs to be figured out. So, yeah,
that's what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
There's also a feeling of companionship in it, like even
there were in this together souling yourself.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's how it feels.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yeah, Okay, your favorite question to ask a stranger or
ask somebody at a dinner party.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
I have one that I've been asking the people a
lot recently. I have a bunch one of them right now.
Is what is the first thing you you like really
remember thinking I'm too cool for this, not not because
you actually were, or because like for okay, A good
example is like my friend, this is my friend's answer.
You know the Kia commercials Kia Right Soul or something

(50:36):
with the cars that looked kind of like Scions but
they weren't. Oh yeah, you remember those.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
So my friend was like, he was like in middle
school and he saw that commercial with the mic the rats,
the mice, remember like there was like dancing rats. Oh,
it was a crazy It was a crazy time on
TV with commercials. They were just trying anything at that time.
And he said, I remember seeing that commercial and thinking
that car looks so oh impractical. I think I've I

(51:03):
think that that's too far. All right. He's like eleven
when he's thinking this, but his like first time thinking
like I'm too cool for I've aged out of my
own generation. That feeling for me, it was the Sidekicks
team O like the Sidekicks. I was like, I don't
think I'm cool. I don't think i'm cool enough for that.
I think I'm too old for this. I was like

(51:23):
in high school. So is there something that you remember
feeling that way about?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Oh I'm too cool for this. Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 4 (51:33):
I want to know.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Oh you're asking me.

Speaker 4 (51:36):
Yes, of course, you can't ask me my favorite question
and then not let me.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Ask it Ooh, okay, I'm going to think and if.

Speaker 4 (51:42):
You don't have an answer, you don't have to think
of one. But I do want you to then text
it to me or something because I have.

Speaker 3 (51:47):
To know.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
I'm going to think about it.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
My initial instinct was I never feel too cool for anything.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
Well, that's well for me. My answer was the opposite.
It was like, I'm not cool enough to use this.
I've like phased out of my generation. So that's kind
of what it was. So another question I'll ask you,
and I do want to answer this right now. Who's
your best friend? Do you have a best friend? Yeah?
Or a good friend?

Speaker 2 (52:09):
I do?

Speaker 4 (52:10):
What is a quality in them that you would feel
you want you want to be more of?

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Oh? At least I've been thinking about this a lot.
Cool and I love this question. Okay.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
So I have two of my closest friends have incredible integrity,
Like they see the world way more black and white
than I do.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I see a lot of gray.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
And it's not that I don't value that perspective, but
sometimes when I'm making a decision, I think what would
Elena do?

Speaker 2 (52:38):
What would Chelsea do? What would Julia do?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Because I'm like their integrity is so strong, and I
always want to make sure I'm there.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
What's your answer? That's such a beautiful question.

Speaker 4 (52:49):
Thank you. I have a two. I don't know how
to categorize best friends because I'm like best in what way,
you know? But like, I have two really good friends
and they're together. They've been together for like I think
nine eight years. I love them so much. And one
of the friends is there's not a moment where she
isn't like thinking about other people. But it's no effort.

(53:09):
You know, when you go to someone's house and you
can feel like they're stressed about taking care of you,
and you're like, just sit down, like I would rather
just hang out with you. She doesn't. It's not that way.
It's not like manic mom. It's like you're talking and
she's like floating around her house and getting you water.
But not one moment do you not think that she's
not paying attention to you or in her mind thinking

(53:30):
of I'm not going to listen to her, but I'm
going to take care of her, because that's kind of
out counterproductive. She is just so effortlessly hospitable in every
area of her life, and I love that about her,
and I am the opposite. I am like, I want
to make sure you have everything your need to, you
need to the detriment of you actually feeling like I'm

(53:51):
present with you, because anybody can get you a glass
of water, but I want to like sit and like
hear your story, you know. So I love that about her,
And then.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
I love how specific, oh thank you.

Speaker 4 (54:03):
I think about this all the time. And then with
her partner, I love how he is so adventurous and
so fun but doesn't stress about things, and not in
a careless way. He just truly has this idea that
like he can just figure it out if we're out,
if like we just decide randomly to go to a
second location out altogether, and like I think it's gonna rain.

(54:25):
I don't have a jacket. He's like, if we really
get caught in the rain, it's all good. That's like
such a cliche example, but like when when you're so
used to just worrying about the worst possible case scenario
all the time, being around somebody that panics the appropriate
amount is a pretty good hard reset to your nervous system,

(54:46):
and it's really teaching me how to panic appropriately, Like
he's like, worry about the things that actually matter and
really worry about them. It's all good, but the things
that don't like, he's like, you've got to let that go.
And he's so New York he's from Jersey, so true.
I mean he's like, he'll slap you in the face
really if you're going too hard, and you're like, you
know what I needed that? You're so right? Not really,

(55:06):
but that kind of vibe. So them together is hilarious
because they could not be in a way more opposite.
And she's like so here and he's like get over it,
and both of them, I'm like, yes, yep, yes, it's
really cool. They are such a power team. It's so great.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
That's awesome. Yeah, Okay, one thing every woman should try once.

Speaker 4 (55:30):
Sex with a woman.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Oh you know you're not the first guest to say that.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Well, I'm also by so I'm partial. But yeah, no,
I think maybe not that that is my answer, but
maybe another one too. I've been really into and I
didn't think I was, but now I'm like getting into it.
I wear I call him a power set. So it's lingerie,
but not lingerie for like sexy time lingerie. I mean
it can be anything, can be lingerie for sexy time

(55:58):
if you try had enough. But it's just beautiful, like
bras and underwear that I wear under my clothes when
I'm really nervous a in a like business setting that
you don't see, but I know that they're there and
I don't. It is so because people would say stuff
like that when I was younger, and I'm just like, ewe,

(56:19):
I don't know, Like I don't. That's like, so it's
not comfortable. I mean, they're not the most comfortable things
to wear. You can get them cute and comfort, but anyways,
it's a long tangent. But I have been doing this
in very strategic and specific situations and now I have
like Pavloved myself to wear. Every single time I put
them on, I feel powerful. Then you can take that

(56:40):
into the bedroom, which is so fun. So it's just like, yeah,
pavlov yourself essentially with things to make you feel powerful,
and it's it's quite a time.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
I like that so much better than a power post
that never does it for me. I like going like
this the superwoman in the mirror.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
It doesn't work.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
No, No, I'm there's so much actually about those things
that I want so badly to resonate with, but like
my brain just talks me out of it, and I've
released my need to make those things work, like even
body like positivity, that that feeling. I'm like, I just
want to be neutral. I literally just want to be

(57:16):
like pretty neutral about myself because I've got so many
more things to think about. But the power set has
been really really really fun adventure.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Thanks for sharing something so intimate. I love that.

Speaker 4 (57:28):
Yeah, now I'm like, now people are gonna know, they're
gonna under that's literally what it is. I have one
that's red. It's like red and like see through PoCA
dot see through mesh with the like darker parts of
like Polka dots. It's so cute. I just got it
Victoria's Secret. It's so cute. I'm obsessed with it. I

(57:49):
literally I love it so much. I think about it
when I'm not wearing it.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Oh my god, I.

Speaker 4 (57:54):
Love it. And coming from me, I actually cannot even
begin to just describe how miraculous it is that I
can get to a point where I say that, because like,
I didn't own mirors in my house for a while.
I was so scared to look at myself, like, so
to do this and I got that just walking in
them all, seeing it in like deciding to go in.

(58:17):
It's one day. We can have another chat about that,
but it is like there's so many steps that had
to happen to get here. So I understand that just
saying go get a pretty like set like that and
where underneath is not a task people can just wake
up and go do. But if you're at that place,
it's so it's so powerful, or take little baby steps

(58:38):
to get there, because yeah, lots of things between that,
but yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
That's an awesome answer.

Speaker 4 (58:43):
Thanks.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
Okay, a book that you've read that's changed your life,
something you think everybody should read.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
Well, I have different answers for different because I don't
think every single person would like every single book. But like,
if we're going creative bird by Bird by An LaMotte,
have you read that?

Speaker 2 (58:59):
No, I love a Lamont?

Speaker 4 (59:02):
You feel bird by Bird and the book? What are
you talking about?

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Atlisa's eyes look so upset.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
I am upset. I am very angry.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Okay, I'm gonna add it to my TVR list right now.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
I think it should be moved up to the top.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Okay, Okay, it's it's and then start writing at yeah
you yeah, you're gonna when you get a journal at
the same time, because you're gonna be so inspired.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
It's there. It is. Oh, it's so it is like
a meal. Every chapter is like, this is changing my
life as a writer. It's so good. And then for
people that love like fiction, oh, for people that are
like neurodivergent in any way, especially like women, the love

(59:52):
Quotient or sorry, the kiss Quotient by Helen I think
Hwang Huang. I want to get that right because I
know there's Anna Huang and then Helen Waang I believe. Okay,
So it's a reverse pretty woman basically where she she's
a data analyst and she hires an escort to teach
her how to have sex because she's autistic so she

(01:00:13):
doesn't grow. Girl. I had to listen joys this. I
had to buy a second copy of this book because
the first one was my textbook. I literally learned how
to have sex with this book. And I'm not joking
you because I never understood how to communicate things because

(01:00:34):
it seemed embarrassing or scary or like, because nobody just
explicitly talks about how to have sex.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
Do you know what?

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
I'm like, you're right, actually you're looking up porn like
hould I how would I actually figure that out? And
so I mean besides with another person, I know that,
but like there's but for me, like I don't want
to be learning in front of somebody. I want to
like feel like I'm going and feeling like I have
a little bit of understanding of what's going, do you
know what I mean? So, so when I read this book,

(01:01:03):
I had no idea it was going to be as
impactful as it was. So essentially, she tries to hire him,
and he's like, I don't do repeat customers, and she's like,
what if I pay you a large sum of money
and I can we can like a punch card kind
of situation, but we can do lessons, just like break
it down by lesson. And he's like, no, I'm not
going to do that. So he leaves and then she's like, fine,

(01:01:25):
I'll just do it. I'll go back to this service
and do it with someone else. But he is like
an actually good person and he's like, there's disgusting people
on this app like that that will take advantage of you,
and I don't. I don't he he has some kind
of fondness towards her initially, like immediately, so he's like, fine,
I'll do it, but I'll only do like three times.
And then because he has he's had people like be

(01:01:47):
obsessed with him and give him gifts and stock him
because they think that they are in love, because he's like,
you know, it's a very intimate thing you're doing, and
it was really confusing for.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
People tell me he falls in love with her.

Speaker 4 (01:01:57):
Of course, but the thing is it's confusing because he's like,
I don't think that she is. She likes me, she's
just paying for my time. But the lessons are literal
like lessons. The length and the way that she describes
I like, she like this beautiful person in front of her,

(01:02:19):
and she's like, I just don't know what to do
with you, but like I wish I did, and I
feel so many things, but I'm also like overstimulated and
feel like I'm going to like shut down, and if
I do anything wrong, I'm gonna feel like I'm thinking
about that more than thinking about being here with you.
And it was just there's something magic about the way
that was written, and it was written by an autistic woman.
And so she found out she didn't know she was
autistic the until the process of writing it, and then

(01:02:41):
the I've never read the end of a book like
the it's not about the author. It's like the epilogue, epilogue,
but not like for a story. It was like her
note interest from the author. At the end, she basically
was going through how impactful the book was to her
and how a lot of Stella, the character is like
rooted in things that she has experience in her life. Man,

(01:03:02):
I just hope anybody that is ever like felt like
they don't understand this is going to be such a
funny conversation, but like I just have felt like I
cannot conceptualize sex in a way that other people can
because I just I can't enjoy something until I fully
feel like I've got my head wrapped around it, and
it's like I've got to study it. That's really how

(01:03:25):
I feel like I'm comfy in situations like I study
menus at restaurants. I love food, obsessed with food, but
I need to study that menu, Like I want to
learn every single thing I can about you as a
person as a friend, like please tell me your entire
life story and then more after that. So it makes
sense that another thing that I love and enjoy and
want to enjoy I would have to study and figure out.
And that book made me feel so seen and also

(01:03:48):
I learned so much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
I love that. It's no one's ever really had an
answer like that. And I think that's one of your gifts,
is you say this stuff that people interiority writing think,
oh in their.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
Minds express No. I think it's so wonderful. I'm so
grateful good.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
I think that we just need to read more about
sex from a like neutral place so that we can
hear learn more about it and like see more about it,
because I just think I just think it's so important.
I think it's so important.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
Yeah, Okay, at least my last question for you is
something very up your alley. It's a game of questions
called the question Everything. So tell me when to stop.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Stop?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
Okay, when is the last time you felt awe.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Awe, this bone this call a louted up. I saw
your bookshelf, I was like, oh, that's so cool. It's
really I mean, that's a common feeling for me, and
wonder is like, it's pretty hard for me to not
see that everywhere, so it's it's a wonderful gift, but
also it's very time consuming. Yeah, you're wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Some people don't feel it very often at all.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
Yeah, I also felt it. Her hair is so beautiful,
so I was like wow. I was like, I need to
ask her how she does her hair?

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Sweet?

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
And then I mean, we've had some incredible sunsets in
Nebraska lately, Like, yeah, beautiful sunsets that I want to
like pop up and like live in and eat the
clouds because they're so pretty. Yeah, yeah, just everything. What
about you?

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
So sweet?

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
Last time I felt, you know what, my friend from
growing up had a baby and watching her be a mom.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
I was in total awe.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
It's pretty crazy, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
I didn't expect it because I have a brother he
doesn't have kids yet. But and I can imagine you
feel this way as an aunt or uncle, but I
haven't experienced that. The love that I'm experiencing for my
friend's children is it's such a gift.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
Like I get chills talking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:05:52):
It's so cool because I love them and then to
love their babies and I'm like, oh my god, I
get to watch them grow up.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
It's so cool.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
I think too, Like it's such a beautiful thing to
see almost a younger version of the person that you
love right in front of you. And like when my
brothers had kids, like I literally look at my nephews
because so my oldest brother has two sons, my middle
brother has two daughters, and I have two sons. So

(01:06:19):
we like our genes are whatever, We've decided that's the
one we're having, which is really funny. But when I
first met my nephews, my first nephew, it wasn't at first,
but it was like as he got older, he's like,
oh my god, your drever like looking at him because
I never got to meet that version of him. He's

(01:06:40):
ten years older than me, so I never got to
see the young versions of him like that. So I'm
just like getting to be reintroduced to my brother in
that way too. It was just like really crazy. And
then they're also their own person which is like, well,
you're a whole person. You're not even you're not like
just a clone. You're like you're gonna have a personality.
You have a personality. Even as babies, they have personalities.

(01:07:02):
It's crazy. No, I agree with you. It's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Alice, thank you for this conversation and for what you
put into the world. I really really enjoyed talking to you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
This is so fun. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
Okay, you know what time it is. Today is a
good day, to have a good day. I'll see you
next week.