152: From Personal Health to Systemic Change: Anthony Corsaro on Fueling the Regenerative CPG Movement

>>> Full show notes found on the Seeds of Tao website here <<<

In this episode, we sit down with Anthony Corsaro, a passionate advocate and entrepreneur in the regenerative food space. Anthony shares his personal journey from a family background in conventional produce distribution to becoming a key player in the regenerative consumer-packaged goods (CPG) movement. He opens up about how his own health challenges ignited his passion for creating food systems that are not only better for people but also for the planet.

Join us as we explore the intersection of personal well-being and systemic change, the complexities of building a regenerative brand, and the critical need for new funding and support structures to help these vital businesses thrive. This conversation is a must-listen for any "regenpreneur" looking to understand the current landscape and find their place in building a regenerative future.

Highlighted Promotion:

Are you a regenerative entrepreneur feeling like you're working against the current? You're not alone. The journey to build a business that heals our planet and communities can be challenging, but you don't have to do it by yourself. Join the Regenerative Business Economies Ecosystem (RegenBEE), our free and open community for impact entrepreneurs, peers, funders, and supporters. Together, we share resources, support one another, and collectively build the regenerative economies of the future. Let's create the change we want to see, together. Join us at seedsoftao.com and click on Join the Community.

Show Notes:

• [00:02:21] - Emily and Noam introduce the episode, highlighting the connection between land stewardship and personal health.
• [00:08:16] - Anthony Corsaro joins the conversation and shares his morning routine, emphasizing the importance of connecting with nature.
• [00:12:28] - Anthony discusses what energizes him and his role as a "cheerleader" for people and ideas within the regenerative movement.
• [00:15:37] - The origins of Anthony's journey: growing up in a family produce distribution business and the personal health crisis that led him to regenerative agriculture.
• [00:24:30] - Anthony explains why he focused on Consumer Packaged Goods (CPG) and the lack of resources for entrepreneurs in this specific niche.
• [00:26:01] - An overview of Anthony's three core initiatives: Regen Brands, the Regen Coalition, and Outlaw Ventures.
• [00:30:31] - A deep dive into the investment landscape for regenerative businesses, the challenges entrepreneurs face, and the "upstream disease" of focusing primarily on farmland.
• [00:39:08] - The critical need for entrepreneurs to understand finance and for the development of new, more appropriate funding tools for regenerative enterprises.
• [00:44:48] - Anthony discusses the importance of corporate structure and how entities like Reginaldo Haslett-Marroquin's Tree-Range® Farms are creating innovative ecosystem models.
• [00:47:02] - Actionable advice for CPG entrepreneurs, including a key book recommendation.
• [00:48:27] - The importance of a "survive before you can thrive" mindset and taking a "progress over perfection" approach.
• [00:53:21] - How to connect with Anthony and get involved with his work.
• [00:54:31] - Anthony's closing thoughts: "Stay in the fight."

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hello and welcome. My name is Emily Prieto and I'm the co-founder of Seeds of Dow alongside
my husband, Joshua Prieto. If you're new to the podcast, this is a podcast for impact
entrepreneurs creating regenerative enterprises. We often get asked what exactly a regenerative
enterprise or impact entrepreneur is. So if you're wondering, a regenerative enterprise

(00:20):
builds triple bottom line profits through the practice of ethics and principles that
lead to a more inclusive, fair and balanced economy. Impact entrepreneurs or regenpreneurs
as we like to call them are those willing and able to take on the financial and personal
risks of starting and building regenerative enterprises. You'll get to know exactly what

(00:40):
all that means as you join us for this and future episodes, but know that we welcome everyone
to join us as we work to build regenerative economies together. That's exactly why we're doing what
we do at Seeds of Dow. Our mission is to help establish regenerative economies in every
bioregion by serving individual regenpreneurs like yourself. In this podcast, you'll hear

(01:01):
the startup stories in all their glory from impact entrepreneurs all over the globe. You'll learn and
grow the skills of building a regenerative enterprise from your peers, mentors, and leaders. Finally,
we'll get to know each other as you engage in the podcast and join the wonderful regenerative
business economies ecosystem, aka RegenB, an open community where peers, colleagues, funders,

(01:23):
allies, allies, and supporters of RegenPreneurs come together to build the regenerative economies
of the future. Join us every month for a wonderful episode as we collectively move beyond sustainability
and into our regenerative future. It all starts now.

(01:51):
Welcome to the Seeds of Dow podcast. Noam and I have a wonderful conversation to share with you today.
We're going to be sharing Anthony Corsaro's conversation and regenerative entrepreneurial
journey that he's had over the years. This was recorded a little while ago. We're going to be

(02:14):
pulling apart. The reason why we're placing this at this time and moment is because we're trying to
focus in on the land and nature stewardship realm of the ecosystem and the stories that are being told
and the stakeholders that are being represented in this space. Noam, we have this conversation with

(02:36):
Anthony. How does it relate to the conversation that we're having and really the narratives that
we're sharing in the regenerative movement regarding business and us moving towards this new economy that
we're so eager to build? Yeah, you know, I think what really kind of jumps out to me is

(03:01):
the alignment that you see in Anthony's personal story that mirrors a lot of our, you know,
our being people in our community, in our circles, our journey towards this kind of regenerative path.
Anthony talks a little bit about, you know, overcoming some personal health issues and realizing how

(03:26):
divorced and separated the current, you know, kind of food systems in America are
when it comes to, you know, creating a healthy ecosystem for people, right? And so, you know,
having Anthony speak to us about regen brands kind of actions and roles in, you know, bringing regenerative

(03:52):
agriculture to the supermarket, to the marketplace, you know, is really like a great example of the
kind of entrepreneurialism that, you know, can be a real solution to real problems that we're facing,
right? Rather than, you know, further modified foods or rather than, you know, large carbon footprint

(04:14):
pre-packaged meal kits or something like that. If you could go to a supermarket and know these products
are regenerative to the land and to your health, that's a big difference. It makes shopping a lot easier.
It makes finding, you know, the health you need for your body a lot simpler.
So, you know, really eager to hear what Anthony has to say about, you know, the kind of, you know,

(04:37):
for thinking about the permaculture flower, that petal of both land stewardship, but also like human
capital stewardship that we talk about, right? Of making sure that we're all healthy and able to
thrive, right? But yeah, what about you? Like you were a little more engaged and familiar with him

(04:57):
beforehand, like, was there, you know, what was the big like push when you thought, oh, I have a chance
to talk to Anthony. Like, was there some epiphany moment that you were like, yeah, I need to get his
opinion on this or anything like that? Yeah. You know, I always try to stay really curious and open to a lot
of the conversations and try not to guide our guests towards any one piece of their story or another,

(05:24):
but really see what's alive in them. But there was, you know, this, this overarching feeling that the
connection between that wellness, you know, you know, both spiritual and, and physical wellness that we
have, it's a part of the permaculture flower and the land and nature stewardship kind of combining in this

(05:48):
episode. And the narratives that we're talking about here, I mean, the think tank is, is coming up,
for the next little bit, we're going to be really trying to dive into different, really impactful
narratives that we can come together on. And almost always our, our health comes into the mix,

(06:08):
right? And it really is a part of a way many people get introduced to the regenerative narratives
that we have is because they have a health crisis, or they have some type of spiritual crisis that they
just cannot really linger in this, this realm of extractiveness and exploitation. And I think

(06:31):
Anthony's story does, does lend to that, right? It helps us to see that it's all interconnected.
And it, and those, those health challenges that we have, really can be solved in a lot of ways by
the outward facing things that we're doing. And the way that we, we make choices around what we
ingest in our bodies, how we grow our food, who we choose to purchase from actually makes a difference.

(06:57):
And so Anthony really does really fit into that. And that the story, I know he comes from a farming
background, but he also really comes from this consumer packaged goods arena and really understands
it really well. And so I think as you listen to, to, to his interview and we, we start to get an

(07:18):
understanding of his story, be looking for those pieces that resonate with you and, and ways that
you can also become a part of that narrative or ways that you're already involved in, in it, right?
Is it, are you coming into this from a, from a health crisis yourself, or you're trying to get,
get, get right with your body and, and the food that you're ingesting or your family? That's another

(07:41):
piece of it, right? Your family is a, is a huge part of this as well. I think there's a lot to be said
there when, when we talk about how regenerative agriculture comes into our lives and how it can
impact our health and, and wellbeing. All said. Yeah. I think, I think with that,

(08:03):
like, I'm really eager to hear this conversation. So why don't we transition the way?
All right. Let's dive into it. All right. Welcome to the, to the podcast, Anthony Corsaro. It's good to
have you. Let us know just where you're calling in from. And, and I'd love, love to start off just
by getting to know the day in the life of, of Anthony. What got you up this morning? How's your

(08:26):
day going? Please share. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It is about 9 30 AM
here on the West coast in Newport beach, California, and we're actually having a three-day rainstorm. So
my morning routine was a little interrupted by that. Usually I try and get up and do some
myofascial release in the morning in my place, and then take the journal out to the beach. Cause

(08:48):
I'm very close to the beach and kind of catch first light and go hang out there by the waves
in the, in the powerful Pacific. So I just moved here. So I'm still kind of developing my morning
routine. But trying to really honor how close I am to that magnificent ocean there. Very, very close to
me. But I think today I kind of just fuddled around. I have a trip. I'm leaving for a trip

(09:10):
tomorrow morning. So I kind of packed, did the dishes. I actually like to kind of leave some
space for those kinds of activities in the morning. Cause I feel like it lets my brain just
like get warmed up for the day. Um, then I usually try and have some lemon water, some bone broth,
some coffee, just to get the hydration and the caffeine, you know, right after I've been up for
about 90 minutes. Um, and yeah, man, what got me up today is, is really what's gotten me up for the

(09:35):
last, I feel like three years working in the space, which is just all the things. It's not really
one thing in particular, but, um, you know, I'm the kind of person that it's very hard for me to
unsee a problem, which I see it and I want to try and solve it. And that, that is a blessing, uh, in,
in many ways. And sometimes it's, it's a curse in a few ways. Um, but yeah, just the, just the kind

(09:58):
of the fervor to, to attack those issues and build the things that, you know, I'm a part of trying to
build in the space to, uh, to bring solutions there. Right on. Yeah. I, uh, I kind of fill you
on, um, trying to settle your morning routine in a new space, right? It takes a little bit more,
more so than, than what you would, uh, you would think, but it sounds like having the ocean there,

(10:22):
that sounds like a really great, you know, value to, to be able to get out there in nature and get
that kind of nature path. I feel like, uh, for you, what, what is it about the ocean that
attracts you or, or that you enjoy having that, that time in the morning?
I mean, so many things it's, I had not, you know, I'm from the Midwest and we had always gone to like

(10:44):
Florida to the Gulf coast for vacations. And so that's really my, my, my anger experience with
the ocean and that's much calmer and much warmer. Um, and the Pacific is cold and it is gnarly. Um, and so
it's been interesting to witness that over the past month, but I find it, especially on a nice
sunny day, there's a really interesting duality of like masculine and feminine where the beach is

(11:06):
really this feminine, it's sunny, it's warm, you can lay down. And then there's like this very strong
Pacific ocean where like, if you don't know how to swim, you really shouldn't go in there. Um,
like, you know, the masculine. And so, um, I think a lot of the work I've done personally in the
space is just trying to find the right balance between those two. And it's this really interesting
kind of metaphor for that work internally. Uh, when I get out there with the journal in the morning

(11:29):
and just try and write some stuff. And then if I, uh, if I'm feeling good enough, jump in that water
and do a little morning cold plunge. Yeah. It's a little different from the, from the, um,
beaches and oceans here in Panama. I feel like I'm in a, every time I step in, it's like really nice
and warm. I'm like, I have never been in this warm of water in my entire life. Yeah. So yeah,

(11:51):
I'm used to, cause that's where my parents grew up is, uh, is the Bay area and, uh, uh, going in and
visit, you know, visiting the waters there. You don't go in for very long, you know, right.
You're like, Whoa, that was refreshing, but also really intense. Uh, yeah. So I, I really,
one thing that I'm noticing is a pattern of entrepreneurs that, that step on the show and,

(12:14):
and share their journey with us is that's part of a lot of everybody's routines or days at least,
at least one point in the day, they like to get out in nature. And I, I think that's,
that's telling of the regenerative movements and of a regenerative entrepreneur. So I'm glad,
glad to see that in your, your morning routine. And also there's those, I do appreciate the mundane

(12:37):
things like just going out and doing the dishes or cleaning up a little bit, kind of getting your
mind, uh, um, on doing something I think is it's, it's a energy healing thing too. When you,
when you're cleaning up and tidying up a space, the energy and your environment and your mood
changes as you do that. So yeah. Great to, to hear a little bit about and get to know you a

(13:00):
little bit more through your day, uh, you're traveling here soon. So, uh, if you can share
just, uh, what gets you excited to do the work that you do and let's dive into your work right now.
Mm-hmm. So many things. This is, that's a long, it's gonna be a long answer meant to break that
one up. Um, you know, I, I feel like at its core at a high level, I get energy from giving other

(13:24):
people energy. And so that could be through personal interactions. It could be through
enterprise. It could be through collaborative gatherings. It could be through whatever. Um,
and you know, I've been working in that regenerative space for, uh, just over three years now.
And if I really look at the common thread through everything I've done, which has been pretty
diverse from, you know, entrepreneurial work, investment work, some W2 roles, uh, a lot of

(13:48):
storytelling and advocacy work, just kind of personally, it all has to do with energy and it
all has to do with kind of trying to be, um, a cheerleader in a way for people, for ideas,
for organizations, for accomplishments, for certain things. And, you know, that's always been
my ethos, even just as a young kid, like on sports team and stuff, I was always kind of the rah, rah

(14:11):
hype guy played college football. You know, they called me the juice man because I just always the
guy that brought the juice and try to set the tone, I think, energetically to have passion and
excitement for, for the work. And I definitely think there's like a toxic way that that can be
done in a way that's really out of touch and not in tune. And there's a really like well-rounded
and holistic way that that can be done. And if you think about regenerative food, which is really

(14:36):
what I spent all my time on, you know, that is our energy source as human beings. And so not only is
all the individual expression of like my work about kind of that cheerleading energetic aspect,
it's really about trying to build better food systems that are our main sources of energy and give,
give people, you know, that better source of energy.
I love that. Um, yeah. And, and you mentioned it just being that kind of rah, rah, uh, build people

(15:03):
up, um, and personality. I could totally see that in your work with your podcast, with a lot of the
media work that you do and just supporting these, these businesses. Um, and then just mentioning like
that is how we're fueling ourselves and how, um, you know, our nutrition is. And, and that is a huge

(15:24):
piece to, to, to, so it makes sense that you would kind of dive into that as well, um, and make that
correlation. Tell us a little bit more on the, the different pieces of your work, uh, help us
understand it so that we can, uh, I would like to then dive in how, how you actually got to do the
work that you do. Cause I think it's really fascinating where you kind of fell in and started

(15:49):
working in this space of, uh, consumer packaged goods, uh, and, and helping people get, uh,
regenerative in that, in that field. Yeah. Yeah. And I'll tell the story cause it kind of sets the
table to describe in an articulate way, the work that's going on today. Um, so I was born and raised
in Indianapolis, Indiana in the Midwest of the U S. Um, my grandfather was a second generation

(16:11):
Italian American orphan. And so he had very little economic opportunity. He kind of had to fend for
himself. And at that time there were terminal markets in most cities in the U S which means
there were multiple produce vendors, basically selling different commodities to retailers and
restaurants. And so that was heavily, uh, you know, that was heavily populated with Jewish
immigrants and Italian immigrants at that time. So he started hustling produce long story short.

(16:35):
It was one of the few economic opportunities he had, um, over many decades, he recruited my dad and
uncles and cousins back into the business. There were a couple of mergers along the way with some,
some other family members and they basically created a regional, very successful produce
distribution company. So sourcing from, you know, California, Florida, Mexico, all, all kinds of

(16:56):
countries. I think now we sell like 3,500 items when I was working there. And so I grew up in that
business, you know, so I've always been surrounded by fresh, healthy food. And, uh, I definitely wanted
to blaze my own path as a young adult. So went to college, played football, took a couple of jobs out of
school, but we actually sold the business to private equity in 2017. And I rejoined the business

(17:17):
kind of to help spur the next wave of growth under that new ownership and also carry on the fame,
the legacy, because it's a business, you know, most food businesses, you have to kind of have this
tribal knowledge that if, if you haven't been exposed to it, there's just some ins and outs that
you won't understand or know how to, how to do properly. Um, so it was really fortunate to spend
about three years there, had a ton of success, did a lot of cool stuff. Um, it was not a regenerative

(17:41):
business per se, but we sold, you know, fresh, healthy fruits and vegetables to a lot of independent
retailers all across the country. I think in 20 States managed a big team, you know, we had a lot
of success. Um, but I left for really twofold reason. One, I was dealing with an autoimmune disease
called hydranitis superativa, which is quite a mouthful. Um, and I was also having a lot of success

(18:04):
success professionally, but just yearning for something a little, a little more. I knew it
wasn't like the, the end all be all path for me. So I took a sabbatical, um, tried to get healthy
for the first time in really about a decade of dealing with the disease. I opened up myself to
being, um, you know, to, to thinking about many different career paths and it really all came back

(18:25):
to region ag. I just could not, I could not shake it as many, as many things as I thought about doing.
Uh, it was always the one that was just kind of there. And so in January of 2021, I, you know,
I was coming off the region, like what I watched kiss the ground. I watched biggest little farm.
I was reading books. I was, I was doing all of those and taking in all this content and I just

(18:46):
was hooked. And I said, I'm going to work on regenerative agriculture. I don't know what that
means. I don't know what it pays. I don't know where I'm going to live. I don't know what I'm going to
do, but you know, I, I basically kind of made that proclamation in January, 2021. And it's been a,
it's been a really interesting journey since then. Um, I feel as though so many people come
to this work and they have this romantic ideal to go be a farmer or a rancher. And I was definitely

(19:11):
in that boat and I would still like to, to do that in some capacity in my lifetime. But I quickly
kind of turned to how can I bring my entrepreneurial and more business skills to the space? Um, and so
over the course of the last three years, I've been on a really intentional and intense, but
somewhat meandering journey, um, that has led me to this, this focus on CPG, which, you know,

(19:35):
has come from this, uh, aggregation of experiences, investing in a lot of different things in the
region, uh, ag space up and on the supply chain, a W2 role with a, an organization by the name of
regenerative food systems investment, really learning all about what is the current landscape
of capital allocation in region food and ag. Um, and you know, building, building my own

(19:55):
brands, investing in other brands. And so that kind of brings us to the work today.
Let's take a moment for a brief promotional break and talk about the state of our world.
There are famines, floods, and fires in our backyards, a global recession affecting our
economies and war and conflict tearing down our relationships with one another. You see it in the
news, feel it in your wallet and talk about it in your social networks. It's hard to think that it

(20:20):
doesn't affect you in your personal life and bring you down in your work. Except you want to
regenerate our lands, turn our economies into circular ones and do it in collaboration and
community with others. How are you supposed to do that when it seems like everyone's working
against you? You're an entrepreneur and you have a business that's going to help us solve these
problems and bring these solutions. You're telling me you're going to change people's minds and raise

(20:42):
capital for your cause and bring in triple bottom line profits. You must be an optimist and dreamer or
completely out of touch. Who's going to buy your products or services, take you up on that offer
or help you fund your do good business. We will. Who are we? We are the Regenerative Business Economies
Network, a connected group of impact entrepreneurs, peers, colleagues, funders, allies, and supporters

(21:04):
of regenerative enterprise building. Together, we take on the financial and personal risks of
building regenerative enterprises. It's all of us together that creates the change we want to see.
We must believe in each other and the work we've devoted ourselves to. If you want to be supported
and also lend support to impact entrepreneurs like yourself, follow the promotional link in
the podcast description or head over to seedsofdao.com and click on join the community. With that,

(21:31):
let's get back to the episode.
It's something that you probably would have fell into, but at the same time, you had to really dive
in and discover it as well. With the produce side of things and being raised from that,
I do have a question about that whole journey for your, was it your grandfather that you said

(21:57):
that started that? Did he start? Because I'm imagining, I'm thinking of just produce vendors
here in Panama where I'm at, right? And so you have like the smaller, really small, just starting off
just finding farmers to work with and getting it out into the market onto stands and whatnot. Is that
kind of how we started or where did it begin essentially? Because I kind of want to get that

(22:23):
image in my head as well. Yeah. So I'll take you back to those terminal markets. And so they still
exist in some cities in the US. There's one in Troy, there's one in LA, there's one in Chicago.
They've definitely evolved and improved, but back in the, you know, the thirties, I believe is when
he would have started the business. It was a, basically a shared warehouse that was like rundown

(22:43):
and filthy and disgusting. And there was, you know, each vendor had a little bit of square footage
and they sold different commodities. So my grandpa sold bananas and potatoes and his company was called
independent banana potato company. So super, super great of name. But basically if you were a
restaurateur or you were a retailer, you would bring your truck usually to the market and you

(23:07):
would buy your bananas and potatoes from Danny. Then you'd buy your berries from Billy. Then you'd buy
your lettuce from Tommy. And so I don't remember the exact year that we moved off the market, but
basically it, when we merged with another family business, that's what created Indianapolis fruit,
which is the, which is now the entity that exists. Um, and we got into our own space and we basically

(23:29):
started selling everything versus just selling a couple of commodities.
That's, that's kind of similar to, to what you kind of see here in Panama. You do have like the fruit
stands and whatnot, but then you have people that are, that are more in that warehouse selling to,
to all sorts of different people, or, um, they do a little bit of that or come pick up at my,

(23:50):
my farm or, or, um, on the, on the route of, of a few different farms. Right. Um, yeah. So it's,
it's very interesting to know that that's where, where it all started for you and to be in that,
that business. What I guess there's, there's, um, not necessarily, um, in the regenerative farming

(24:11):
world. And, and, and for me, it took me a little bit to understand really what the consumer package,
uh, goods market market is and, and what, what it's made up, made up of. Can you share just like
why you, you, you got specifically into that and kind of what, what things led to that specific moment?

(24:33):
Yeah. So I was, I was investing in all, I had made probably 20 investments. I think I've made 22 total,
everything from ag tech to some funds to distribution businesses, to CPG brands. And I really felt like
the entrepreneurs that were doing work on the CPG side had very little support. Uh, so there's

(24:53):
that, there's that coach slash cheerleader coming in there again. Um, and I oftentimes tell people,
if you want to be a regenerative farmer, you can Google how to be a regenerative farmer and
thousands and thousands upon, you know, resources pop up. But if you Google something like
how to sell regenerative products to people, very little to next to nothing come up. And I said, well,

(25:15):
how do we, how do we help these people have kind of a home to tell their stories, but also build
some sort of resource bank that is the how to for that? Because what I felt like was missing from so
many of the regenerative conversations and the discourse and the capital allocation was how market
access and market demand was really affecting the ability to farm that way. So we can talk until

(25:37):
we're blue in the face about practice adoption and about what the farmers are doing. Yes, of course,
that's the whole point, you know, that the practices themselves, but there was such a lack
of understanding awareness and conversation around how the, how the rest of the supply chain affected
that, that I really wanted to bring light to and really try and showcase the enterprises that were
basically what I'm, what I would call enabling the practice adoption or continuation. Um,

(26:01):
and so that's what created the first, you know, the first of the three entities that I work in
today, which is Regen Brands. So that is really a B2B media platform to educate, um, retailers,
operators, founders, investors, any other kind of B2B food system stakeholder on what is actually
happening with regenerative CPG? What is happening in these enterprises? What can we learn from each

(26:22):
other? How do we go develop like the, the Harvard business review booklet for how to start a
regenerative CPG brand? Um, and you know, we're 60 plus episodes in 50 plus blogs in, I don't know,
almost 50 newsletters in, and we've, we've created a bunch of buzz and got a bunch of impressions.
But I think what I'm most proud of there is, is the fact that there is some actual resources around,

(26:46):
you know, what these enterprises are doing, why they're doing it, how we can not necessarily just
scale them, but also duplicate those efforts like regionally or across, you know, different
countries. Um, and really Regen Brands has served as a learn out loud PhD self-study for me that has
informed the creation of the other two entities to try and continue to solve more problems that are

(27:07):
coming from, you know, from the learnings of Regen Brands. And so those are the Regen Coalition,
which is a new 501c6 nonprofit trade association, which is basically that had been created informally
by my partner on the podcast, Kyle Kroll. He had done a bunch of really cool grassroots marketing
initiatives with the brands, like getting some end caps at retailers or doing some social media

(27:29):
giveaways. But there was this 10,000 bullet point list of all these problems that the regenerative
brands collectively shared that were not being solved collectively and programmatically. And so we
needed to create that infrastructure, that vessel so that the membership could come together. They could
all chip in some funding. We could basically survey them and say, Hey, what are the most important

(27:50):
problems? What do we actually want to solve? What's, you know, let's rank these, let's budget
them. And then let's use this vehicle to solve them in a nonprofit trade association fashion.
Um, so that, that entity is like in right in the thick of like launching, recruiting the initial
membership, getting, getting started, but should be kind of fully launched here in the next couple of
months. And then the last entity is called Outlaw Ventures. So that is the brand that I basically

(28:14):
created to invest all up and down the supply chain. Those 22 investments already mentioned,
but after having this more generalist approach in a lot of different things and investing,
you know, seven figures into the space, I said, man, to really, to really have impact,
I need to use more capital than what I just have. And I need to focus. And I had a very unique set of

(28:36):
insights and expertise and a network in, in region CPG. And it was also significantly underfunded
compared to regenerative farmland, regenerative ag tech, and even regenerative kind of production
finance for the farmers itself. You know, the two, the two biggest white spaces in regenerative
ag funding right now are infrastructure and, and brands. Um, and so the, the theory of change there

(28:59):
is really Outlaw is going to hopefully become the first fund slash firm dedicated to just funding
regenerative CPG brands. That is awesome. And I think so, so needed. I'm just thinking about, um,
it's going to maybe take a number of years to, to, for that type of impact to be affecting places like
Central America in a lot of ways, like, like if you've ever been to Costa Rica or Panama, the organic,

(29:24):
uh, uh, I mean, yes, there's USD sort of USDA certified organic being shipped to the States
and whatnot, but there's not a lot, there's not a really big organic consumer product, good, uh,
markets, uh, for people that are just trying, trying to eat well, uh, and, and, and products

(29:46):
that are coming not from all over the world essentially. Right. Like, but, but I think that's a
first start, right. I don't think there's a lot of that across the world in general, but I think the
U S is, uh, U S and North America's is, uh, getting ahead of it. Right. Um, and, and trying to tackle
that problem. And I think what you're doing is very much needed for, for farmers, especially to be able

(30:09):
to, uh, not just, you know, maybe add some, some additional, uh, revenue to, to, to their, the farm or
profit to their farm and not just sell produce. Uh, but there's just so many things that I think
what you're doing there is, is very, very needed. The, cause I know you've also worked with, uh,

(30:31):
another group, um, the regenerative investment. What's the acronym for the, for the RFSI regenerative
food systems investment. Yeah. So, and I kind of want to get a little bit of background from you as
well in how you got into the investing. You did some invest investing yourself, but give us a
little bit of the landscape. Cause that's kind of a hard thing for a lot of entrepreneurs to get

(30:52):
involved in and understand themselves, especially when they're starting a business and they're,
they're new to that whole landscape. How did you get involved in that and, and, and share a little
bit of, of the, uh, the world there, that landscape. Yeah. Yeah. I just was really fortunate and
really lucky, um, about two to three months into my search. So like March of 2021, after, you know,

(31:13):
a couple of months after making that declaration, I was doing some entrepreneurial stuff. I was looking
at some investment deals, but I was also searching for a W2 role in the space and RFSI just happened
to be hiring for a business development manager. And, um, I just reached out to Sarah who ended up being
my boss and my partner in crime there for, for the 18 months I was there. And I just, I would not let
her not give me the job. I was all over her as soon as the role was posted. And, um, we had so

(31:40):
much fun and we accomplished so much. And, and I have such a big place in my heart for her and Rachel
who are, who's still kind of the team over there. Um, and what they do is so meaningful and so
important, but yet underappreciated. I think we, we take for granted a lot of the, the storytelling
media and events, uh, operators in our space. And it is such a vital kind of service. Um, what it

(32:02):
allowed me to do was have a platform, um, and start developing kind of my ideas and start supporting
people in that cheerleader coach kind of fashion. Uh, it allowed me to learn exactly what was going
on in the landscape all the way from philanthropic capital to really return driven capital all the way
from farmland to CPG. Um, and it allowed me to build a network of people that, you know, could

(32:24):
support whatever initiatives I wanted to do in this space, you know, in the future. So I'm, I'm just
eternally grateful for the opportunity and the work that we were able to do. Um, and what I saw there
was so many things. I'm trying to even think of which ones I want to focus on. Cause I could probably
write a whole thesis just about here, all the problems with region ag finance and here, all the

(32:44):
things we need to do, but maybe I'll hone in on a few. Uh, one was definitely this, this super upstream
focus, what I call upstream disease. So everyone is, you know, region farmlands doing great.
Sustainable ag tech is doing great, but we're kind of just touching the surface on production, finance
infrastructure, and brands. So the further you get away from production, the less attention, the less

(33:06):
capital allocation we're developing. And so to me, like it's the, it's the antithesis of regenerative.
We weren't really taking a systems approach. Like it's not just good enough to have regenerative
farmland. We have to get that all the way to the end consumer. And so that really sparked that
curiosity that I've kind of already mentioned led to all the development on the CPG side.
Um, the other piece was just, we need way more capital in the space. Like we're getting our ass

(33:30):
kicked by clean energy and fake meat and all these other things that don't drive the holistic
solutions. Um, and I mean, you want to talk about nature-based solutions on the carbon side
or the biodiversity side of the water side, they're cheaper and more effective yet they receive less of
the capital. Why is that? Right. Kind of, kind of staring at all those problems and saying, okay,

(33:52):
I was fortunate and privileged to have some wealth. I've really put, you know, a lot more skin in the
game than my wealth advisor would like me to, but Anthony, the Anthony Casaros of the world, yes,
they can all drive a lot of meaningful change with, with their wealth, but we need to get like the
billionaires and the, the, the multi-hundred millionaires, et cetera, to really get skin in the

(34:14):
game. And why is that not happening? And so uncovering some of those issues, seeing them up
close, like what, what does it really take for people to allocate to the space? What education
is missing? Do we need family office advisory firms? Um, so I just touched on a lot there,
but to kind of sum it up, it's basically gave me a really, really cool purview into all the capital

(34:34):
allocation in the space, some individual white space that I personally could go try and be a champion
for. And then some larger macro issues that are holding back our movement in terms of how do we
get more capital to flow into it? Well, I'm just noticing this for some of the entrepreneurs and
it'll probably, uh, be a part of our, our final conversation that we have as well, but I'm,

(34:57):
I'm seeing in so many ways, the landscape that we're finding ourselves in. I very much like you found
myself in a space that I didn't want necessarily wanted to be, uh, in marketing and branding and
whatnot. And I was in this growth marketing field, but when I, I, when I found out about
regenerative agriculture, uh, it started off as permaculture actually started out as natural

(35:18):
building and then ended up permaculture and then regenerative agriculture. And then all of these
things started connecting together for me. And I just, I could not, not do something in this space.
Right. Uh, so it became a huge passion, but you didn't drop your, your skillsets and what drove
your, your, your economic engine. I'm kind of going off of Jim Collins's, uh, hedgehog concept.

(35:42):
Right. And it's something that I've been, it's been coming to mind a lot that I'm, I'm finding
there's a, there's a lot of people in this space that want, or there's a lot of people that want to
get into this space as an entrepreneur. They're, they're, they're maybe that even have a startup at this
moment that's working and, and, uh, or trying to find a way that adds value into, uh, this regenerative

(36:05):
movement that we're a part of, or, you know, there's so many different words that you could
use for regenerative. I'm not trying to, it's the word that everybody is currently using, but
I'm, I'm hoping that what maybe you found is, is a really good skill, a skill set that you've found
as an entrepreneur and a space that you've been able to, to be, have that skillset in, uh, while

(36:29):
also have being extremely passionate about it and then finding ways that you can drive your economic
engine that, that will actually sustain you over time. And that's a lot of times I think I, I see an
entrepreneur very passionate in the space, but lack one or one or the other, you know, or, uh, have two
out of three of those and, and it, and they're just kind of haven't gotten a flywheel going

(36:52):
essentially for the, for the business. But I see what you're doing, uh, as, as really finding all
three of those and, and, and going after it. So if you can, the last part of the conversation,
I would like to, maybe you can, you can comment on that, but also what would you hope the entrepreneurs
that are listening to this podcast today and listening to your story would, would take away from

(37:12):
your, your story and narrative? Yeah. Yeah. Just to respond to the first thing first, you know,
it's a challenging funding environment out there right now, um, just because of the macroeconomic
climate. And it's, it was challenging even before that, uh, for regenerative enterprises that really
had a multi-return, you know, kind of mandate and desire mainly just due to the fact that in all these

(37:33):
enterprises, we have not found a way for the traditional capitalist system to, you know, reward the
internalizing of all the externalities that everyone else gets to externalize and the reason
why they are profitable. Um, so we have that big macro problem, right. And then underneath that,
you really need to know so much about just the financing of your business. So not alone, you know,

(37:56):
not only do you have to have a vision and you have to be able to operate, or you have to have a team
with those things. You have to have someone on the team or you yourself that understands, okay,
here are the three main types of capital, philanthropic debt equity, you know, what's
right for me, what combination of those is right for me, what's right at what stage, what do I use
to fund this growth versus that growth? And a lot of people really don't have that basic knowledge.

(38:20):
Uh, and I've been there too, and I'm still learning every day. And so we have a fundamental,
like one Oh one, we don't understand finance, uh, as it currently exists today problem. And then we
have a, we need new tools and systems problem, but it's hard to really create those. Like I'm not a,
I'm not a, uh, go create something from scratch person. Like I'm really like, you have to really

(38:45):
understand the constraints of the current system to iterate and to solve for it because we're not
just going to make this giant leap. Like there's too much entrenched power and entrenched systems
to where that's not going to be the case. And so what I'm saying there is this lack of one-on-one
understanding doesn't allow us to be informed enough to create these new tools, systems,
processes, et cetera, that are better fit for building truly regenerative outcomes and enterprises.

(39:08):
Um, which is why I think some people that are doing the work on kind of the regenerative mind
and like the deeper, um, you know, design thinking work is, is like super important, but we have to
then go apply it to what we know about the current system, its flaws, its constraints, et cetera,
to say, what's the iterative process to build up to something that is better.

(39:30):
Yeah, that's, that's huge. Um, I see that so many times it's something that you see in almost any
entrepreneurial venture, but we're, we're kind of stacking the challenge, trying to build a,
a better new regenerative economy in the future and that we have to really understand that, that
big, uh, hairy, giant hairball of, of a problem of, of what finance currently is to be able to,

(39:55):
to, to start building towards better solutions. And I think that's, it's a very mysterious world,
the, the investments, uh, um, world, the landscape there, uh, of how, uh, people get funded and how
you, you can be doing what you should be doing and, and you need to be doing, but at the same time

(40:16):
could be totally running out of runway, totally not able to, to fund a certain part of your business
because it's just barely off of what, uh, people understand about how the world works. Right.
And, and that I'm seeing in so many regenerative consumer, uh, package, good products is, is like
that, that challenge right there. It's like, we just, if you just understood, if they, if they

(40:40):
understood more about the regenerative, regenerative realm, the investor, and if the, if the
business understood more about the investment world, is there a way to maybe bridge that and
then create a system that that's different? That's, that's transitioning away from this
one. Yeah. And I, I, I appreciate that tee up for kind of going from the theoretical to

(41:02):
the practical, because I feel as though it's something that we, as a space don't do very
well. Like it's great to understand theoretically what's going on, but we need to start bringing
practical ideas around how to create the iterative change. Like a lot of times I feel like we
get stuck in the theoretical. And so I'll just bring that down for the CPG context, right?
Funding CPG brands has been largely the typical more venture capital approach of at the early

(41:26):
stages, you use safes and convertible notes, and then you invest via priced equity. And then
there's an exit and the investor makes a return or the business just fails and the investor
loses the capital. That is the typical approach. So my theory of change, uh, our theory of
change for the group of us kind of working on this is we need someone to go do that. There
are brands that actually are a fit for that. There are enterprises that are fit for that old

(41:48):
way that it might work, but we have not, we have not determined that to a relative large
enough sample size. So we, we need to go do the, the, um, the regular approach and we need to
take the same amount of capital and we need to do kind of an R and D trial financing approach
with different tools, different structures, et cetera. Um, a group that I really like that's,

(42:10):
that's trialing some of that at a small scale right now is, is, uh, they're kind of a consultancy
in general CPG. They don't have a true region mandate, but TIG brands, TIG brands. Um, and
they're trialing things like the care note and redeemable equity structures and other
structures that really are not based on this typical venture approach with those three specific
tools with a binary outcome of an exit or not it's, Hey, how do we grow sustainably profitably

(42:35):
these brands? And maybe they're not a hundred million dollar brand. Maybe they're an awesome
regional $30 million brand, $50 million brand. And the problem is we have to go take a large
enough pool of capital to kind of shove into an R and D vehicle there to then say, Hey,
we tried these things. We learned these things. Now we think I'm meaningful, you know, meaning,
meaningfully effective approach is X, Y, Z. And then you have to take that to the capital allocators

(43:00):
and say, that looks like giving us a dollar, getting back $2 in this timeline, et cetera.
Like we, we can't do that with this new set of tools yet. And so we have to kind of run
the parallel path of doing the regular work, doing the R and D work, and then comparing and
almost like a research project on top of the investing work.
Yeah. I've, I've seen a lot of people in the regenerative space say that a lot of this stuff

(43:24):
is because we're still trying to work out ways to commercialize a lot of these, these,
newer food, food products, essentially, right. That people don't grasp on how, how we can make
them happen. And a lot of it is philanthropy. They're finding, they're finding that they're
fitting more into that, that philanthropy realm rather than going after, you know, the seed or,

(43:47):
or those different series of, of, of funding paths, because they, they can't find anything that's
going to help them to commercialize. And so that's that right there, I think is part of the,
the experiment, but like all these different funding, like, I don't, I don't understand them
and I don't, you know, so, so, so this, the entrepreneur sometimes brother, it's, it's so

(44:10):
difficult to, to, and for an entrepreneur, if he's just trying to get, get the job done,
right. And, and create something it's, it's like, you almost need to, you need to have an Anthony
that's, that's there guiding them and helping them through this, this new world and this new
landscape while they're also trying to navigate this other side of, of the work that they have

(44:30):
to get done. Right. And, and I will say we're, we're not that different than other spaces. Like
there are some people with just bad ideas that like, no, there's no tool that's going to solve
the fact that like, it just, it's not going to work. And I struggle with how to tell some people
that like that, Hey, like this is, this is just a bad idea, brother. I'm sorry.
Right. But, you know, on top of the whole financing piece is also the corporate structure piece,

(44:53):
which you kind of talked about this for-profit versus philanthropic model. And that's the other
piece that we really need more advisory services for. We need more of a meaningful kind of like
case study sample size around is how do we create ecosystems of enterprises? Maybe some are for-profit,
maybe some are nonprofit to catalyze kind of these more ecosystem solutions, right. Where

(45:15):
like Reinaldo and what he's doing at tree range farms is like really interesting because
the CBG brand is for-profit, the processing facility they own is nonprofit. And then they
have another, they have another entity that I don't know what its corporate designation is that does
like all the farmer training and education and advocacy. And they use this ecosystem of multiple
entities to inject various forms of capital, because from a tax and a legal perspective, you know,

(45:39):
you can't take certain types of capital into certain types of entities. So if I, if I was like,
you know, the Waltons or one of these people with just like a jillions of dollars, one thing I would
do in the space is I would find a bunch of semi-retired or retired boomers that had all worked in legal
and investment banking. And I would start this kind of regenerative legal advisory and investment

(46:01):
banking services free of charge for these problems, because it's a corporate structure and it's a
financing problem. So it's how do we structure your entities or your entity correctly? What are the
funding sources available to you? And how do we get them at the right price to the business or the
enterprise? And in a quick enough timeline for you to actually grow your, your, your work.

(46:22):
Wow. I like that. I hope people are listening to that specific part.
Someone go do it. I don't have the time. Someone else go do it, please.
Yeah. That is, that'd be really amazing to see. And you're, you're, you're mentioning the
Waltons because that would be, you know, a huge part of the supply supply chain in a lot of ways
too, if we can get it into even big box retailers like that. Well, let's, let's, let's bring us

(46:49):
towards our last conversation. We've, we've gotten a good understanding and I really love the journey
that you've taken us on. Help us to, as, as the entrepreneur that's trying to build, maybe it's
a CPG brand, maybe it's, it's something in agriculture, maybe it's in this realm of
regeneration. What would you hope that we would take away from your story today?

(47:11):
Yeah. If you want to build a CPG brand, go by ramping your brand by Dr. James Richardson and
read it a hundred times and then, and then launch your product. It's not regenerative whatsoever,
but it's basically him doing a case study on all the brands that have scaled to a hundred million
dollars in the recent past. And it's not that you want to scale your brand to a hundred million
dollars, but it's really about what are the core fundamentals to launch a premium CPG product in

(47:36):
North America successfully and kind of ride a proper growth ramp. So I find myself coming back
to the information he shares in that book constantly in conversations about CPG regenerative or
not that I think a lot of the tools in that book are really agnostic to whether you have a
regenerative mandate or not. So that'd be my first advice on the CPG side. And then secondly,

(47:57):
on the CPG side would just be, you know, use the resources that you have shameless self-promotion of
the region brands podcast, our newsletter, et cetera, like go reach out to all the people that
we've featured, learn from your peers, cause they do want to help you. And, you know, I, I learned a
long time ago, get other people to share their advice with you that have paid the dummy tax, which is
they had to learn the hard way and you can learn, you know, you can learn the easy way from

(48:21):
them learning the hard way. And, you know, regenerative entrepreneurs, regenerative is
so multifaceted and vast and expansive that it's hard to give like a through line common thread for
all those people. But I would just say, you know, a lot of the time you have to survive before you
can thrive. Maybe that's a, maybe that's a scarcity mindset. Maybe that's a limiting belief I have, but

(48:44):
just the vast amount of data that I have tells me that that's the truth. And we want to build these
regenerative ecosystems. We want to build these regenerative enterprises. We want it to be perfect,
but the realities and many of the constraints today are that, especially at scale, that's,
it's almost impossible today. And so while I don't want to be negative or dissuade anyone from kind

(49:05):
of chasing it, just start small and iterate. Like that is, that is good entrepreneurial advice,
no matter if it's a regenerative enterprise or not, just don't get over your skis, do what you can
take a progress over perfection approach and continue to build like in the regenerative
continuum or the regenerative index over time. Cause ultimately if you don't survive and you
don't have any profit, you can't, you can't be sustainable. You can't be regenerative. You can't

(49:30):
do a lot of these things. So there's a fundamental design piece to like get off on the right foot.
And then there's also just a, we need to take action. We need to try stuff. We need to iterate.
We need to be okay. Failing and, and continue to just survive through that failure.
I think that's really important for those that are just really starting off in the idea phase as
well, like, because they can get so purist. They haven't really had their teeth on, on some of

(49:55):
what's out there already. Don't, don't try to be the purist when you're coming into these things.
Like you have to actually work with the systems that are, are here and it'll stop you from pursuing
that idea and actually making something out of it. If you think that you could change all of
these systems within this, this business that you're building or this, this group of people

(50:15):
that are, that are, that are working together to, to create change. Right. Um, you have to actually,
I, I totally believe that, uh, learn to survive and then we can, we can really start to thrive
together. And it's, it's that collaborative piece too. Cause if you can, if you can survive,
you're able to start collaborating with people, but you, if you're not surviving, you cannot
collaborate with other people. Right. It's just not helpful. If you have someone that's just like,

(50:38):
not really is just struggling through all, all the, all of this stuff or, or just is failing at
getting themselves profitable and, and, and sustainable in their business models.
And then they're trying to try to adopt or trying to collaborate to create all these new systems
that aren't necessarily living in this world that we currently have. Um, and I've seen that a lot

(50:59):
within the regenerative realm, especially in the idea phase, but as they, they start validating
their idea, we can also get caught up there as well as like, you're going to have to maybe use
plastic, you know, uh, you're going to, you know, to, to be able to, to ship this places you're
going to, you might have to, you might have to make sacrifices or compromises that, that really

(51:22):
aren't, uh, but you're, you're doing the work. And yeah. So I, I believe, I believe in that as
well. Thank you for sharing that. I, I constantly find myself in two mindsets,
one being bad and one being good. And the bad one is ruminate and wait, right? It's when I'm
trying to be, it's when I'm trying to have that perfectionism. It's when I'm trying to go do it

(51:44):
perfectly or do it exactly right. And I just end up ruminating on it and never doing anything bad,
not, not, not, not ideal. And the second one is lower the bar and act. What can I do right now
based on the information I have, as long as I'm not going to have any more information,
to just go move this forward? Because just like we talk about the energetics of everything,
momentum is an energy and having momentum is really important. And I'm not talking about

(52:07):
hustle culture and burnout and you're working 24 hours a day, but I'm talking about there's
key initiatives that you need to move a, you know, an organization and enterprise or an idea
forward, lower the bar and act is always typically the better mind frame to keep momentum, to keep
moving and not lose kind of that energy of, of the forward movement and the forward motion.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I would agree with you on that. Um, it doesn't mean that you're not going

(52:34):
to get to where you want to be, uh, long-term though. This, that's just a, it's a short-term,
like getting you to the next, next milestone essentially. And you're going to be able to
navigate, you know, the, the path is not straight in a sense, in a sense that you're, you're having to
navigate all these different pieces. But if you keep on checking where you're supposed to be,

(52:55):
right, you have the compass, you have, you know, and, and you, you have that guide of like, no,
this is the world that we want to see. We will eventually be able to, to, to move ourselves over
to that. Right. I think that's, that's a hard thing for an entrepreneur to, to grasp for sure.
Well, thank you for, for sharing that, that piece. Um, as we, we, uh, we kind of close shop here and, and,

(53:17):
and shut the conversation down. How can we stay in touch with the work that you're doing?
How do we get involved in it? And, and please, please share the pieces that we can,
we can, uh, sink our teeth into right now. Yeah. Most of, and thanks for asking, uh, most
of everything gets funneled from a storytelling and a media, uh, production capacity through
region brands. So the website, there is region dash brands.com. Uh, we have a website that's linked

(53:41):
there. Obviously I just said that, uh, what I meant to say was we have a newsletter that's linked
there. And then we obviously have the podcast. So those, those would be my two recommendations
is subscribe to the newsletter, uh, follow us on any of the podcast platforms, um, you know,
Spotify, Apple, Google, whatever, whatever your fancy is. Um, those are, those are the two best
places to stay in touch. And then LinkedIn personally, I'm very active on LinkedIn. I'm

(54:03):
very bullish on kind of building personal brand and using that as a way to, to connect with the
broader network and ecosystem. So definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. If any of this is interesting.
Yeah, that's how we connected. So I'm glad I was able to, to reach you there and that you're
in that space for sure. Uh, thanks, thanks again, Anthony, for, for all that you're doing and for
being able to share your story and be vulnerable about the pieces that you're working through

(54:25):
yourself. Um, any last, any last words or for the, for the audience that you want to share?
Um, that's a good question. I think just like stay in the fight, you know, like there's just,
there's a lot of forces working against anyone doing this work in today's world. Um, but there are
people out there that believe in what you're doing. There are forces, you know, uh, supporting

(54:46):
you in an equal or even more so capacity and just try to choose to see that, uh, and try to just find
ways to continue to kind of survive, then thrive. Cause I do think, um, there's always, it's always
going to be hard, right? It's always, it's always gonna be hard to some degree, but your perception
of that, it really shapes your reality of, of what it ends up becoming. And I certainly am not
an expert at that still yet. And I struggle with it every day, but it has been such a foundational

(55:11):
piece where I'm, where I'm in a good spot with that. You know, the work just is so abundant and
so much more free flowing and successful than when I'm not. Love it. And for those that are
listening, we're going to have all, uh, of the links to, to regen, uh, brands and to all the,
to Anthony's LinkedIn page and whatnot. So you can reach out, uh, make sure that you stay in it and

(55:35):
keep on working forward. And, uh, let's, let's, let's keep you in the conversation, Anthony. I would
love to have you back for sure. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
All right, everybody. Ciao.
Thanks for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed the podcast and it really is a blessing and a
pleasure to bring each episode to you. So what'd you think? If you enjoy the podcast,

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linked in the description and in the show notes of this episode. Region B also has an awesome community
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this may be by for now, but remember, it doesn't end here. It has only just begun. The regenerative
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