Ep. 21 | New Media vs. Journalism feat. Jason "Jah" Lee - Selective Ignorance with Mandii B

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Selective Ignorance. However,

(00:03):
before we get to this week's episode, I want to
remind you guys to purchase my book No Holds Barred,
a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. So feel
free to go to your local bookstores preferably queer owned,
black owned, or woman owned to support them, but also
just click the button on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, or

(00:23):
wherever you read your books. Again. That is No Holds Barred,
a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power, written by
yours truly and my co host of the Decisions Decisions podcast, Weezy.
Make sure y'all get that. Now, let's get to this
week's episode. This is Mandy Be. Welcome to Selective Ignorance,
a production of The Black Effect Podcast Network and Iartradio.

(00:45):
Welcome to another episode of Selective Ignorance, the show where
nuance still matters, the great area gets center stage, and
we're not afraid to ask the questions that piss off
both sides. I'm your host, Mandy Be and New York
Times bestseller, and we're talking today about new media, the good,
the bad, and the brain numbing So here's the thing.

(01:05):
We live in a time where everyone has a microphone, yep,
even me, but somehow fewer people seem to be saying
anything worth listening to. Opinions are everywhere outrageous, constant facts occasional,
but the signal to noise ratio yep, it's getting harder
to hear the truth over the hot takes. And here's
a twist. People love to shout about the First Amendment

(01:28):
free speech. They out when it's something they agree with,
But let someone say something uncomfortable or inconvenient, or god forbid,
actually thought provoking and subtly, the same folks are calling
for bands blocks, boycotts, and removing microphones from podcasters. So
is it freedom or is it just freedom for your side? Now,

(01:49):
with the rise of new media YouTube, TikTok, podcasts, streaming,
it seems like traditional journalism is either dying or desperately
trying to keep up. But is that a good thing?
Are we democketizing information or just diluting it? Sometimes I
wonder is all this constant content making us more informed
or more distracted? Are we building knowledge or just binging noise?

(02:12):
And here's my personal tug of war. Part of me
loves the chaos of new media. Y'all know that because
I am chaos. The creativity, the access, the diversity of voices.
But another part of me misses the standards, the accountability,
the actual editing of traditional journalism. I'm stuck between CNN
and some dude in his basement with a ring light,

(02:32):
and honestly, I don't know which one's telling me the truth,
nor sometimes do I care. So today we're diving deep.
Is new media better or worse than the old guard?
Is entertainment taking priority over real information? And maybe the
biggest question, are we getting smarter or are we selectively
choosing to stay ignorant. Welcome, y'all. I am joined today

(03:00):
always with my super producers A King and Jadson, And
then I'm also joined by someone You guys were recently
introduced to my good, long standing friend Job. I'm really
excited to talk to these fellas because they have all

(03:20):
been a part of the media landscape for probably Jason,
you old hasn't been like thirty years, twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Man, the sound design is gonna be crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I mean, how long have you have you been been
doing this?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Over twenty years? Since two thousand and one.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Damn since I was in pairpers old as I thought,
I met your babysitting John, what about you?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
I started this in two thousand and ten. Yep, that's yes, ten.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
We were in the same thing. Lay damn. Have I
had fifteen years of this shit?

Speaker 4 (03:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh shit, I'm old too.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Put some put some creaky sounds there.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
Yeah, don't don't. It's funny because I've been potting for
eight years and that seems like a century. But I
started in the blog era back in twenty ten. So yeah,
you was full core pumps and did the owner of
full Court?

Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, and then a king You were you in this space?
I know you were music, but were you in this
space prior to combat Jack?

Speaker 3 (04:28):
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
And what past?

Speaker 5 (04:30):
So the journey, The journey starts after college, just trying
to figure it out because I was trying to find
my way to radio because that's how I was doing college.
And then real quick and we could talk about this
another time. I plan on doing something extensive, but a
Craigslist ad led me to internet radio stations.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
Has led me to a lot of other things.

Speaker 5 (04:49):
I was going to say that I definitely thought it
was sankey what and I was like Dumbo Brooklyn at
that time. Listen, I'm from Easter. It was four parts
of Brooklyn. That's it, you know what I mean. So
I like Dumbo. What the hell is Dumbo? So I
went there. It was this establishment called P and C Radio,
and that's when this space because that was the we

(05:12):
were trying to figure out. SoundCloud was there, and so
what we would do we would do live. We would
do what we're doing now live and then take the
audio and archiving on SoundCloud and put it out on
the internet.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
So y'all created podcasts.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
So that's what I'm saying, So you are the creator.

Speaker 5 (05:27):
So it was a dude, actually, this kid named I
don't know if his handled still the same, but his
name was Sell Cracked.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
The kids.

Speaker 5 (05:32):
He used to always say, Yo, you guys are doing
this podcasting, you should put this on iTunes? Like what
the fuck are you talking about? And then that's the
part of the genesis. But yeah, but that was adjacent
to the blog era because all of the people who
I my ecosystem were writers, and you go out to
the events you start. We talked about Big crit earlier. Right,

(05:56):
we're entering the era where we get the blog era rappers.
They used to come to New York.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
Kendrick.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
They create currency, Jay Electronica and j Electronica from my space, right,
So just think about that Lupe Fiasco all of those guys,
So they all would come to New York and that
became part of somebody gotta interview him. You got to
create these platforms for those guys. So yeah, but this
is what's crazy about him even telling that story. I
met Jason and A King for the first time at

(06:23):
P and C Radio.

Speaker 4 (06:24):
Around the same time that we met, I was coming
to New York a lot just to get involved in
what was going on because I was working in Boston
and that's why I d M Dallas Penn Recipes Dallas
Penn and we would go back and forth, and I
was like, I'm coming up to New York.

Speaker 6 (06:40):
He was like, oh, well, we're doing this show at
this place called P and C Radio. Crazy Jason, I
think Boston was there. I think, uh uh, what is
my man's name. I want to say, this is crazy
Butcher this man's name I want to call him?

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Right?

Speaker 6 (06:58):
Heem not right, no, no, no, Ramen Romen okay, Roman
Deuce was there, I think and everybody. Shah, he was there,
I think, and that was that was my first time
meeting a ship. This is the media in New York
like all in this and and and everybody.

Speaker 5 (07:14):
The whole goal was how do we get to see
at the table of what was dominating radio at the
time in New York without So that was that.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
Was the part of me moving here though like New
York radio was the pinnacle.

Speaker 3 (07:26):
It was like you was the media period.

Speaker 5 (07:29):
And then once things was started to shift a little bit,
we had another We now have another radio station, another
hip hop R and B radio station that emerged, right,
so now we have two. But then you still needed
the Internet's like, yo, we gotta what's this ship about?
Everybody's writing and then it's just a line.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Now such a that was such a great nickname for
your listeners, the Internet.

Speaker 5 (07:52):
Internet's well that was that was That's that's Dallas that
did that.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
That was his.

Speaker 5 (07:57):
That was his way of saying, Yo, you gotta the
es for for for the supreme idea of creatives, right,
you put the s on it. That's why I hate
when people say internets. That's corny, like you can't even
like what is internet? Is Internet? But that was just
the interconnected networks right of this of how we're able

(08:18):
to we're here right here. Yeah, I mean you were
doing your thing in twenty Oh wow.

Speaker 6 (08:26):
That that that's that's the photo that we took that well,
I think you might have took the photo Jason.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Hold on Jason's scarf game. Y'all have to see this.
I'm good.

Speaker 3 (08:43):
Oh no, let's not get it twisted. Jason and John.

Speaker 5 (08:50):
I don't know for the Jays, but these two are
fit masters, stellar like we see j on the virtual
but no, his fit game is crazy to scarf was
nasty him and they was running m t V at
the time on the hip hop side. That's what even
to these guys is like, oh ship, yo, we need

(09:10):
to do something.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
I mean, I think I think for why I chose
to work with y'all on this, like y'all's history and
time spent in this space is why for y'all listening,
these niggas is gonna always be on the microphone so
y'all can hear from these legends. Okay, I'm doing this
space kind of not really.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
Not really.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
I did though. Before we we get going, kind of
a quick catch up on all the things y'all know
I announced that I'm now on black Effect. I'm also
a New York Times best settler.

Speaker 3 (09:46):
That goes in italics, but also.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Our super producer A King just joined the Recording Academy.
So what what okay? And and in your law caption
in your beautiful you know asset that they gave you
to post on your social like, what does being a
part of the Recording Academy mean? Because even in the

(10:10):
caption it read that you're able to have input on
Grammy Award nominations and winners, like are you a part
of the voting? But what does that look like to
be a part of the.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Recording process that you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (10:22):
This is just more on the you know, just having
an opportunity to advocate, okay, and being a part of
that ecosystem and you know, just journey, journey your way
through the chambers of of what that looks like.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
So then can I ask you your thoughts on them
recently announcing hold on, hold on now, can't you yourself?
I would just like to know.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
I can't no more now, I'm like, I can't cuss somebody.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
If you are now part of the Academy. I would
love to know your thoughts on them. Once Beyonce you
want a country or now they added contemporary country, so
kind of what are your thoughts on that? And are
we gonna even start seeing that? What do you think
it's something that you would consider. We had a whole
conversation about R and B, but R and B artists
actually do the same with how they identify their music.

(11:23):
So what are your thoughts on them adding that contemporary
country after Beyonce won the Country Grammy last year.

Speaker 5 (11:29):
I think they do a great job of listening to
the people, and I think you have people in place
who are members that are tapped into what you know, culturally,
what people are saying, and where it is an opportunity
for them to at least that's what it looks like
for me. Wherever there's an opportunity for them to make
the make that sort of pivot to cater toward those requests,

(11:52):
I think they do it.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Okay, now you've.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Been media training, Oh I got that.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Yeah, but you kill that.

Speaker 5 (12:03):
But I think also too, there was an outcry for
you know, there's a big conversation about her and her
placement in country music, and I think that they were
listening to that and they're kind of catering to partly
the noise around it and also the honesty around it,
you know, and where we're at today in twenty twenty four, these.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
People to the streets. Yeah, they better go ahead and
add contemporary rock because Act three is supposed to be
rock from Beyonce.

Speaker 6 (12:31):
And she's probably not the only ones. I think there's
about to be an emergence of black rock artists.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Who are going to be that not my prediction.

Speaker 6 (12:40):
Yeah, I think that's going to be a thing in
the next five to ten years. I think you're going
to see a lot of alternative acts. One come in
particular that I know of that we'll talk about it
later on, But like.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
I think that's about to be a thing.

Speaker 6 (12:54):
My question for that, I only asked about the contemporary
country thing is I'm interested to watch the history of
it to see if it is does contemporary country mean
black or does contemporary country mean well, I guess my
question is like, is it the sound or the awards?

(13:14):
Who will be nominated for these awards? It's going to
be mostly black people in contemporary is like urban.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
Urban or if you're designed to be they would say
it's designed to be young.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Sure, we would probably.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
Interpret it's like urban. But that's the point. That's the
point of them like getting a king, which it's a
big deal, Like we should clap it up from it's
a big deal because it's not going to have like
more voices that input that. Like you know, culture moves slow, right,
so some people who are like in the streets and
the know, who can like exactly like you said, John,
like there's gonna be this movement. I'm gonna say re

(13:46):
emerging because you're correct re emerging. So it's like you
see it so like when you're in a room, you
have that influence.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
And I'm just curious design to do that. I'm curious.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Y'all brought up color and even like age, it's going
to be interesting how you justify that to like just
based on overall eras essentially, like what is a new sound,
especially if they're singing about the same ship, hopping on horses,
drinking whiskey, like also the it's still talking about the same.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Ship, but if it hasn't eight or eight underneath of it?

Speaker 6 (14:17):
Okay, But but that's why I asked that question because
contemporary country. When I think contemporary country, I think country
with trap beats. I think Kozy, I think of Adele Tanner,
I think of some of.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
The stuff to beyond. Right.

Speaker 6 (14:36):
So it's like that sound is what I think about
contemporary country. Because if you're not doing that sound, that
young sound that Jason is talking about, then what Morgan
Wiland They're not gonna put in contemporary country.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
They're not gonna put uh.

Speaker 6 (14:51):
Randy Travis or who a Reba McIntyre or whoever else
puts out an album that year in that spot Dixie Chick.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
Even though Morgan Wiland has he flows with it a.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
Little bit with it. And what's what's the what's the
black brother's name? King?

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Where does he leave nigga? That nigga by Rachel.

Speaker 6 (15:14):
Jacob God bless God, Bless God, Bless God, Bless God, bless.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Bless because he's seen as he's not the Drake. Then,
because Drake is being questioned on his blackness, j Cole is, we.

Speaker 3 (15:31):
Got to revisit Many's rule of summer ship. Every everything.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Actually we are not bringing up episode. Let's get into
our new segment, especially because we have a guest this
week that can join in on his thoughts. If you
are unfamiliar, this is the double down or take it back.

(15:58):
This is where I play a clip of my own
thoughts and views and accountability. I like to believe I
have something you know, and so basically I'll play a
clip from any of the various pods that I've been on,
either my own decisions decisions, maybe a previous selective ignorance clip,
or any of the other pods I go on, and

(16:19):
based on the response the outrage in the comments is
how I decide what I bring back to the show
to either again double down what the fuck I said,
or take it back because y'all, y'all might have some credence.
So Jason, you want to queue up the clip so
that John can hear it?

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Apparent is your largest asset you're gonna.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Do some Do you agree or disagree if your height
is your largest asset or you're gonna play basketball? Nope,
not the same.

Speaker 3 (16:47):
I kind of like to that a little bit.

Speaker 1 (16:48):
One of the things that they don't talk about pretty
privilege often is the unfortunate. You may be at more
risk to get sexually assaulted, sexually harassed, and unfortunately end
up in a lifestyle that was forced upon you because
maybe because you're so attractive, you didn't really have to
be smart, So the direction for you wasn't to go

(17:08):
to school. You never were forced to be in position
of competition because you always won, or like me, where
I don't think I was at all the prettiest in
my teens. My circle was full of pretty girls. They
did a lot of whole ship, and they brought me
in the whole ship. We brought each other in the
whole shit.

Speaker 6 (17:28):
So you stepped on every landmine. I'm not gonna lie fluid,
just just.

Speaker 3 (17:37):
Crip walked across.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
You said that because I got blue. Okay, So the
outrage in the comments heavily lean towards although you mentioned
all the landmines I stepped on. The comments heavily leaned
into the fact that you do not have to be
attractive to be sectual assaulted or sexually harassed. Now, sure,

(18:05):
what is wet? My nigga men are monsters, and yeah,
they will fuck a chicken sandwich. I am aware that
your attractiveness is not the only identified you know, the
identifier as to whether you are a victim of sexual
assault or sexual harassment. However, However, you end up maybe

(18:29):
working at clubs because of your attractiveness, and we know
what type of environment is in the clubs. You know
that if you walk into a place, like maybe someone
will graze you differently because you have this or like,
I'm sorry, I'm not taking that back. I do believe
that if you are the quote unquote standard of beauty,
you may be at a higher risk of being sexually assaulted. Now,

(18:53):
I did not say I did not say comprehension skills
are lost amongst us. I did not say that they
are like that's the standard to be sexually assaulted or
sexually harassment. I am aware that more women are that way.
They also said I liked accountability for becoming a hope. Now, listen,
you could be a whole looking like anything.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
I get it.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
But the access that I had in my eighteen to
early twenties, like as soon as bro I was hanging
around music INDUSTRYNI because I was hanging around athletes and
we just saw the goddamn Diddy trial. We know what
type of environment is you're exposed to when you are
around that sort of environment. So it's to me, I'm

(19:36):
not I'm not taking this back. I do think that
there's an element of pretty privilege that people don't want
to acknowledge. And I do also think that sometimes your
looks are are your best asset in a lot of places.

Speaker 6 (19:52):
Well, here's the thing I say the obviously, yes, the
sexual assault, sexual harassment doesn't have a you can be
a penny or a dime like everywhere, it is what
it is.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
From that standpoint, as far as hold them go, really.

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Can't get rid of them to save their life.

Speaker 6 (20:17):
But but to your point about hold them like any
any any number down the line of attractiveness can be
a whole.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
But who are you hoeing with?

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Like?

Speaker 6 (20:27):
To your point like, if you around athletes, entertainers, actors,
whoever are certain uh I guess echelone of society for
lack of a better word, then yeah, you're probably gonna
be hoing with niggas who are of that ilk And
a lot of them niggas are entitled. A lot of
the niggas are monsters, and like you said, we just
a lot of the niggas have their own ship going on.
So it's just who are you being uh sexually harassed

(20:51):
or sexually assaulted by the people on the other side
You know, regular every day.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Joe's and I have to make a whole higherarchy. But yeah,
there's different between fucking for some rint money and fucking
for a ten piece, like you know what I mean.
Like there's a difference with with whatever you're getting.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
Out of it too, and some people doing it do
it without realizing to after the fact, it's still an action.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (21:15):
What's also crazy though, is like when we think of
this idea of looks being your asset right when you
when you are, especially as a woman, if you look
a certain way, you're pushed into the direction to do leading, cheerleading,
over basketball, You're pushed to maybe become a model, over

(21:35):
going to get your doctorate. Like even society will push
you to well, you're pretty, why don't you just go
do bottle service? They make a lot of money. Like
if you even go into like say a Starbucks, I've
seen people be like, oh, she's too pretty to be
working here. There's literally this mindset of your looks supposed
to be being able to get you to a different

(21:57):
place in life, and there's an access point. I don't
know why people act so like they don't understand nuanced
with certain clips and yeah, like some well.

Speaker 6 (22:07):
Pretty people get attention. And that's not saying that other
people don't get attention. But if you're very attractive by
whatever standard, man, woman, whatever, people are going to be
looking at you, paying attention to you.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
People are going to want to be in your orbit.

Speaker 6 (22:18):
People are going to want to talk to you, and
everything else that goes in between.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
I mean, I said it in I think our R
and B conversation. I think there are some artists that
would be a lot bigger if they were more attractive.

Speaker 3 (22:31):
Yeah, visual media, I mean visual.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
Like matters across this.

Speaker 6 (22:35):
Like there's a reason that, like there's a trend of
like the bad bitch weather girl. There's a reason that
there's a reason that all of the women on ESPN
in Fox Sports who are on.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
TV don't do that.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
I know, I know you're question, it's interesting, let me
do let me all of y'all though, real quick, just
to be selectively ignorant here. So, so FS one is
seeing a huge draassic drop in their overall content. However,

(23:12):
Joy Taylor recently her contract was not renewed, and of
course they said it was because of the drop in viewership. However,
she was on three shows, one with I think what
Keishawn Johnson and then the other with Paul Pierce, all
of that shit good done. Do you think it's because
of that pending lawsuit or do you actually think it's

(23:34):
because of your ship?

Speaker 3 (23:35):
I think it's fatigue. What do you mean by fatigue lawsuit?

Speaker 5 (23:38):
I think it's the lawsuit and the details behind the lawsuit.
People would like they just kind of discredited her, like
you know, like okay, she And I'm not saying this
is my view on I'm just saying what I've seen
is they invalidate her journey to get whatever she got there,
however she got there because of the US.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
I will just say I am so glad that she
has her own platform right now.

Speaker 3 (24:04):
Part of it right that's.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
Like gonna be as And I think that's a part
of why they're doing those why they're downsizing, because podcasting
in that realm is definitely affecting.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Now, you know what's crazy even me. We talk about
like the love and hate of free speech and ability
to own IP and all these things. So on one
point of the coin, On one side of the coin,
I love that Joey Taylor has too personal and she's
able to monetize and create her own platform and continue
making money on the other side of a coin. I'm

(24:38):
upset that Shannon Sharp has his own platform, that he
can continue to make millions after everything that happened with him.
So clearly we saw ESPN, but they're signed, they're a
part of Disney. They let him go. They pretty much
said you could walk away. We're gonna fire you, nigga,
he said, I walked away. We know he didn't, but
a part of me is annoyed that he's still got

(24:58):
Club Shay Shay. He still has night Cap and he's
still I know, but I think it's it's it was,
It's what my point was about Diddy. I feel like
he's not gonna have to come out and wait for
a company to give him a check because we're in
a place where you can create your own viewership, your
own audience, your own bags essentially through you know what
I mean.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Well, I mean you can't.

Speaker 6 (25:18):
You can't really have one without the other, right, It's
either either, you know, one of us is free or
nobody's free.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
So it's like, yeah.

Speaker 6 (25:27):
You know, if you lose your platform on a corporate level,
you know that's gonna happen that can and for Joy
Taylor situation, Like, honestly, I don't think there's any reason
that both things can't kind of be true.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
I don't know FS one's ratings.

Speaker 6 (25:39):
I mean, those debate shows aren't like bringing in the
same ratings as like the view, Like like, yeah, first
take is clearly number one, and you're talking about what
seven hundred thousand people, eight hundred thousand if you like
that kind of thing, So we're not talking about a
one point one to one point two. If you're performing
and you have a scandal, depending on what the scandal is,

(25:59):
sometimes you can stick with you.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Yeah, you'll be, you'll be, you'll be. Yeah, numbers will
make your scandal.

Speaker 6 (26:04):
Yeah, give you a little bit of armor. But like
they to me, they rolled with Joy. This this news
broke what six months ago?

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Three months ago, Yeah, maybe maybe earlier.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
So it wasn't like Shannon Sharp had to go home
immediately immediately, he didn't kicked it, came back.

Speaker 6 (26:18):
To the park, right, nothing, Everything was cool that everybody
said nothing. It was what it was, and you know,
now we're here.

Speaker 1 (26:24):
I wanted to then if that's why she leaned heavily
into sure she knew they wasn't it was.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
Read that up and you gotta assume they kind of
they read the tea leaves before this thing, before it
gets to us. She probably knew this was the eventual
thing that's gonna happen three four months ago.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Well, yes, I mean same same with Shannon Sharp. He
offered to pay her the ten like a million, ten million,
six million something to settle outside. And I ain't gonna
hold you pay me ten million. I might take you
got you got.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
Like Mandy.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
So let me ask you what the Shannon Sharp of
it all? Because that because Shannon Sharp is probably he's
the breakout like media star or media story of the
past like a year, right, you.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Know what's interesting he is? But I do wonder too
if he is that same breakout star. And it's it's
funny because we're kind of guests based over here, but
I wonder if he is that. Without Cat Williams, that
interview was by far one of the best ones, and
even recently seeing the seven pm in Brooklyn numbers with

(27:37):
Kat Williams, like, it's just interesting to me because and
then so go.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Ahead, so I want to ask you so I feel
you on that with it being guest based and it
kind of has like the yo yo ing element of it.
But but he's also not just club because here's nightcat right, right.
And so if we're talking about like, you know, audience
makes you scandal proof, right, And so he's been able
to get audience right where whether it's being like super

(28:03):
Unk at nighttime or doing these interviews during the daytime,
and he's become like the breakout story. Do you know,
I don't know if people feel comfortable calling him media.
Is he something else? Do people call him a YouTuber?
Like you know that that's some of the elements that
I guess we'll get into me like he's one, yeah,
but he's but he but he's like he's the bell Weather.
Is that not what people want? Is that not the

(28:24):
idea of what Joey Taylor hopes to spin it off to.
Is that not the idea of what we want like
selective ignorance to be where it's this independent thing, you know,
corporate entities partner with us, but we're free and whether
it's scandal or controversy or whatever, like we're still alive.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Here's here's my dilemma. And we can lean into almost
every not y'all in this room. But almost every mail
that is on a podcast Mike has had allegations against
them for one thing or another. I'm not gonna say
all I didn't say that, but there are a lot.

(29:02):
And so even if we talk about the Cuomo of it, all, right,
let's take it to politics, and well, both of them
has some shit right. To me, what's disheartening though, is
the audience is what's allowing these people to continue making money,
but in terms of accountability is the people they are.
It sucks that they're still able to be platformed. So

(29:23):
for me, it removes the idea that you can do
something bad and actually have to be there's consequences for it.
To me, Shannon Sharp leaving ESPN and still being able
to make his millions on his platform, to me, it
absolves consequence from everyone else who's seeing these rapists. And

(29:45):
I could do all the bleep bleep bleep words of
what people have been alleged or what they're being accused of,
or what they're being sued for. No one is being
held accountable for their actions off of these mics, And
because the listeners and consumers kind of ain't holding them
act either, they're still able to come out and make
all the money in the world.

Speaker 6 (30:03):
Well, societal justice would never trump criminal justice, right, or.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
If we even have criminal justice, that's it. I mean
that's suspect too, right.

Speaker 6 (30:14):
But if that suspect, then asking the people to be
held to a standard that that's not that's never going
to happen. I just don't believe that will ever be
a thing. Somebody somewhere will still like this person. Plenty
of people like r Kelly, plenty of people like Tory Lanez,
plenty of people like like society.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
And then the scope of media, though, isn't that the
most honest transaction we like a king. A king talked
about gatekeepers, right, so before people would get fired from
a company that was a gatekeeper, whereas now the audience
is still following them. So not even like a morality
player of at all, or like patriarchy, Mandy, Like just
in terms of like a media relationship, if your audience

(30:53):
follows you or not, it's really the most honest transaction.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
People, Alex Jones, It's funny because you brought up them
of it, And that's where I want to kind of
lean into the outrage of the audience and what happens
in these comments and stuff, and I want to take
it to you job because when I first started blogging
right full court pumps. At first, I wanted to highlight

(31:18):
the dope things that I knew the athletes I knew
were doing off the court, so leaning into their their
nonprofit organizations, their or their AAU leagues in the summer
and highlighting those things. And it started that way and
I realized, well, okay, views are getting slow, and okay,
no one really cares, and then I'll never forget it.

(31:39):
My first big ass payout from AdSense. Ad Sense is
where you used to get paid out for the blogger,
and mind you don't get paid out unless you hit
one hundred dollars, so sometimes I would go a couple
months not seeing no money. But my biggest payout happened.
I was uh, there was two of them. The first

(32:00):
one was I was at a I was at I
was at a fight. It was a boxing, boxing fight,
I want to say, one of the Spanish boxers and Mayweather. Anyways,
I think he had like a side check or something
there and I ended up having the tea about it.
Found the girl's picture on the Instagram. This is who's
who boom blew up. The second one was, oh, I

(32:23):
got the first ring of Dirk Novinsky's black wife at
the sb Awards, So I was I went to the
SPS shout out to Robert Littel from Black Sports Online.
So I went to the sp Awards. I see Dirk.
This is right after they just won the championship, and
he's with his black girlfriend and she has a ring.
So I'm on the carpet and I'm snapping pictures at her,

(32:45):
and immediately it's picked up that she has the ring
on her finger. All the things that blew up. The
other one Deshaun Jackson spending all his money in the
club during the NBA lockout NFL lockout. So those are
my three things. But what I realized is, oh shit,
the people love the mess. They love the mess. They
want to know who's sleeping with who, who's cheating on who,

(33:07):
who doesne betrayed, what, who's doing something that they're not
supposed to do. And so when we go back to
the morality of everything, when we go back to the
outrage of what I see in the comments and people
just disagreeing, y'all love the mess. And so it goes
back to jah you, which I'm gonna coin you as
the creator of headlines. Oh yeah, that stir up, but

(33:31):
that sound a mess in terms of like leading into
the messiness of whatever is, so like where maybe tabloids
would lean into it, like with just here's the solid facts.
You would bring the headlines to us in a way
that we would want to discuss it.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (33:50):
Well, the thing about it was is that during that
blog era of time, it was so many blogs and
like people are kind of talking about everybody's talking about
the same thing.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
You had to wake up at like five thirty in
the morning and be ready.

Speaker 6 (34:04):
She was going to be the first one on it
and had that kind of thing. So it was like
it turned into when I started working at bost, I
was writing there. But also there was no social media manager,
Like our Twitter was just an auto send of we
published a story on WordPress, it goes to Twitter, super generic,
like there was no there was no there was no
personality in it at all.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
All.

Speaker 6 (34:25):
The personality was on the site and in certain headlines
that are see all the time. Mar Frasier she had
kind of put together these things of bossabisms basically of
like she would take songs like it'll be hosted down
Kim Kardashian, blah blah blah blah blah, she did something
or I forget some of the other ones. We don't

(34:46):
even know, we don't even use them no more. But
she had these things that she just wanted to put
as the headlines, but the social media was not there.
So I just kind of started writing headlines and putting
them on Twitter myself. So I would have we published
a story. Then I beat the delete the auto popular,
the auto population and just redo it and just say

(35:09):
whatever the thing was. And three or four of us
on the team, we just all started doing it because
the headline started going crazy on Twitter.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I think that's the thing though too, that stemmed us
being a headline as like I guess community sumership, like
even right now, what are the most popular things on Twitter?
Sometimes it's literally a headline over a graphic, and it's
funny because they'll say, as long as it's in that font,
niggas will think it's real, And that's kind of what

(35:40):
it is, you know what I mean. Like it'll say
thirty six percent of this they just made up this
goddamn number. But if it's in a certain font and
it's on a certain it looks legit, and I think
though we lean into legitimacy coming from headlines, and that's
not the case.

Speaker 6 (35:57):
Yeah, like with our headlines, I think with it was
always to you can't add facts to the headlines, but
you can make the words you use sound bigger and
more inflammatory, or you know, to pull some reaction or
emotion out of somebody. So it might be this is

(36:18):
the actual story, but everyone's gonna write a regular headline,
this is what happened, this person's involved.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Not to jump around, Yes and no. There was just
a recent headline from a black boy Max. Look at me,
y'all know, I'd be on the guy, damn white boy
Max as a streamer and he was talking about something
he did and he apologized for it. They took a
snippet of what he said, because again wasn't listening to
the whole conversation. They took a snippet of what he said,

(36:44):
and they were they pretty much made the headline that
he was coming out about being gay or doing some
gay shit in the past.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
Oh literally, not gonna do with.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Anything, which is why for me, even the outrage on
social clips from podcasts, is like they could go and
listen to the whole goddamn topic because people will put
in the cop in the comments something that actually was
iterated maybe ten seconds after the clip was cut off, right,
And so to me, headlines now could literally be anything
that people want. And it's how we're digesting this news

(37:14):
that is bullshit.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
I Thoughtso it's funny, did you say digesting? I think
people cook it up wrong too, because because it's aggregation,
you know what I mean. And so it's like some
people willingly are fishing for something that they think is
like it's close enough to like what they want to
post because they're thinking about the reaction, right, like I
want this reaction and so like I'm going to pull

(37:37):
it out just this way, and you know, like there's
an art to it, like we all know, like there's
an art to like aggregate and something that's interesting that
has like I don't want to say integrity because that's
like way that's loaded of a word. But like you know,
now I feel like it's a bit more wild West.
And I think it's a wild West because like to
Job's point, like there was so many blogs. Now it's
there's everybody has a social media account, there's you could

(37:58):
you could tell the hierarchy of the big accounts the
smaller ones, like you know, sometimes there's like the really
tiny micro influenzer ones and influence the big ones, and
they're just like they're just like chipping away at the
bone to get any Like I'll make this a story.

Speaker 6 (38:12):
You're fighting for attention and there's a traffic jam and
you're trying to and you're trying to find your way
to cut through, and the only differential between you and
the other site will be how do you grab if
I only have if most people are only paying attention
for eight seconds, and all of the bigger shade rooms
and everybody else has six of those seconds because people

(38:34):
know that name, they see that name, they stop, then
I've got one second, two seconds to grab your attention
right now. With the first couple of words, truth or
not for those for those people. For me, I never
got down with that because I wanted to make my
shit funny or to make it, like I said, more
inflammatory as far as how you're going to react to it,

(38:54):
but change it for me anyway. I could never go
in there and just make some shit up because that's
not really going to serve that won't get the reaction
I need out of it if it's fake. For me,
it'll only work if it's the real thing. But I
found a creative way to say that thing or present
it to you.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
See now y'all said a few words, virality, there's information.
How we digest it? I want to ask all of
y'all's opinions. During the Diddy trial, I thought that armand
Wiggins was doing an incredible job with keeping everybody abreast
of what was happening inside the courtroom during the trial. Right,
he is also the gentleman who went viral for doubting

(39:37):
himself in baby oil following your face, following the actual verdict.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
And so this is a great example to talk about.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, and so we have this person who's actually putting
out what I thought, Like my homegirl who's a lawyer,
was watching him every day because she lives in LA
couldn't attend the trial, and thought that he was just
giving a really good breakdown of information. And to me,
when I found out that he was the one outside
doubling himself, and I was like, were you not getting
the attention? Was this an attention seeking thing this now

(40:12):
brings in the bias of it all, like it was
just really poorly done. He did end up apologizing, but
not really for what he did. Do we have that clip?

Speaker 3 (40:21):
I want to know your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
We could always cut it. I want to know your
thoughts on and you're shaking your head to taking.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
But but but but before you go, there's hold on.
Let me let me get this clip going first, and
then I want to after the clip, I want to
add some context to what Mandy was saying. Okay, because
I do think it's a good example for reasons good
And he said I got.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
Something to say about it.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I'm glad you do, because we got something to say
about everything.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Wrote a song about it like here here.

Speaker 1 (40:50):
Going for his charges sex trafficking and racketeering, he was
found guilty of two counts of engaging and trans and
transportation for prostitution. You were outside with oil on you
now talk to me about.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
This, Angela.

Speaker 7 (41:05):
You know, I'll try to say it with a straight
face because we got to be serious of here. But dude,
but I tell you, I wish I would have never
done that, you know what I mean, because it got
so long out of.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
Proportion to be easy with you.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
I was not.

Speaker 8 (41:20):
Anybody that knows me knows I was not a baby
supporter in that way.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
I wish for the facts, okay, But to make.

Speaker 8 (41:26):
A long story short, I had always been doing kind
of comedy with my reporting of the case. Yeah, more oil,
more oil. I even have a more oil fund on
my platform. They would send me money for more oil,
which means it would keep me here covering the case.
And so in that moment, I was just thinking, you
know what, today is the last day. Let's do some

(41:47):
more oil live with the people here just on my
on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
And you've been working out, yeah, you know.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
So I was like, let's just do We're having a
good time. We're on Verdict, watch Nigga please yeah, like st.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Yes, but hold on, John, it's it's it's it's it's
it's nuts, right. But this is my thing with it
all one is that he so he's not a traditional journalist.
He's a YouTuber. He's a YouTuber and he's a streamer.
And for this case, and and I just about thot
it was interesting and smart for Mandy to pick this
one because this case really reflects how media has changed.

(42:27):
So you have like NBC News. There, you have TikTokers. There,
there was this chick Tisa something who was covering it
really well on tipto. Tisa tells us there, ye ha,
Lauren la was radio and then you had armand right.
And so he's a he's a streamer and streamer. We
talked about it earlier. It's about developing your audience and
community based, right. So he's having this conversation with his

(42:50):
audience and it has humor and bad humor or not.
With the movie we did with the with the oil,
there's different standards for what he's doing versus like with
NBC News is doing at the end. At the end
of NBC News is coverage. They're not going to celebrate
by pouring baboy on them because they're also not having
a two way conversation, right, like they're just writing news

(43:11):
and distributing it. Where what he's doing is something a
little bit different. And again I'm not saying that it's
right or wrong, but it's something that's wholly different than
what Lauren l Rosso was doing, what Tisa tells was doing,
and what NBC News was doing. And so and that's
what I think that's why you got sort of that
apology non apology from him.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
I mean it's one of those things. Well, first off,
like the idea that it.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Was and it still deserves to please and everything.

Speaker 6 (43:37):
Un it's blown out of proportion like that, you blew
it out of proportion.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
You did, you made a spectacle of yourself.

Speaker 6 (43:46):
You did a circus outside of the courthouse that every
major news station picked up and talked about.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
But they picked up on him because they thought he
was a fan, right, yes, And I think that's I
think if we not if we have to we knock
him forward, I think we have to knock traditional media
for it too, because they got played.

Speaker 6 (44:04):
Okay, no, and that's fair, and that's fair, but it's
the idea. It's like the it's like the Sally Jesse
Raphael thing, right, Like she was like a respected journalist
like radio. Yeah, if you didn't see the great hairs
in my chin, I just told you how old I
said the name Sally Jesse. But like she was a

(44:28):
traditional journalist and her talk show was not like necessarily
the same thing as her traditional journalists, like she you
know you have it was full of fuckeries and it
was like, okay, this is the thing, so this blueprint
isn't even necessarily a new thing. Like I feel like
there's journalists and writers media. You think about it, literally

(44:53):
this talk show and this talk show. He tried to
do it straight forward.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
You said, you said it man, Yeah, if you guys
had an outrage.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
The outrage is what led him to doing the bullshit,
and he was surprised.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
He was shocked.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
He was shocked that this is what America he did.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
He did he did catch a prostitution charge.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I mean, everyone, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (45:16):
Everyone pays for pussy. God damn. That's why I don't
think did he go really get charged because niggas gonna
be like, well, we all to pay for some coaching
now we done all flew a little bit shut. So
but to me bringing back the Sally's, bringing up even
the Jerry Springers now thinking you're right, this is where
we're thinking of new age media as something like in

(45:37):
armand Wiggins, no traditional media even in the nineties, I
didn't even think about that.

Speaker 6 (45:43):
This is what like, there's been journalists and writers who
have been doing this, playing this role for a long
time of like I did this, I try to go straight,
and now I gotta go back to selling drugs.

Speaker 1 (45:54):
I mean, to be fair, even what's her name? Is
it Nancy Grace? The one who covers the criminal.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Like the children a king?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Do you remember Richard Bay Richard New York, New York
legend right there?

Speaker 5 (46:08):
But like I think, I think earlier you talked about Beyonce, right,
and you talked about the country.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah. Category, we just need to put this ship in
a category, and it's.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Contemporary comp contemporary contemporary.

Speaker 5 (46:23):
I think it's just I think it's degenerate, not degenerate,
because you said the people. The people are the ones
that have the opt out or opt in, and it
seems to be more times than not they opting in.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
There.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
Also, maybe for myself maybe and I'm I'm only speaking
for myself here, right.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
But maybe we, oh, I overvalue.

Speaker 5 (46:49):
What the culture is in terms of moral compass intelligence.
You mentioned comprehension skills earlier. We've seen a deficit in
you know that stuff, right. I know Dallas will always
say you got two ears, one mouth. Well, now everybody
got two miles and no ears. So it's like maybe
accepting that fact about the degenerate culture of things, we

(47:13):
just need to put it in a box that's that's
what it is.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
You know.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I think that's the problem.

Speaker 5 (47:18):
Maybe maybe we're looking at it wrong, Like everybody's not
going to be meet people where they're at. We're meeting
a massive, overwhelming populace people. Well, let's be clear about
something like and we all are degenerate. But that's what
I'm gonna be.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Your mother, your mother, just look at your We like.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
That's but that's that's beyond. We're talking about something.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Now we look on.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
Instagram, we see the that's what we don't know.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
You in the group, we like, damn, this girl got
cheated on uh while she was pregnant. Her man, fuck
twenty five bitches while she was pregnant. That's the ship.

Speaker 6 (48:03):
Thenas I watched it Chased by GSP, I watched one
this morning. The first video I watched this morning was
Georgia State Patrol chasing. Just no, just any video on
the on Internet or Instagram of Georgia State Patrol chasing somebody.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
I just want to see.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
But here's the difference. Then here's the difference. Then watching
content for entertainment is different than viewing content for information.
And I think that that's the difference because, like I
was just telling a king the other day, shout out
to ste He put me on. There's a whole channel
now of like police cams and and them capturing niggas

(48:43):
snitching on each other doing crimes. So, like, I just
watched the whole thing about these niggas was going into
a TD bank and in West Pond Beach and Florida
and doing fraudulent checks for like over ten thousand dollars.
So they get caught. They see the mayor trying to
run out the car and he's like, no, man, he
was in there. It wasn't me. But you literally see
the two people snitching on each other. I was like, yo,

(49:04):
this this is good ship.

Speaker 7 (49:05):
I know.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
He's gonna tell Hen.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Florida stay embarrassing people. Oh my god. But it's it's
such good content. But like, you're right, I think that we,
outside of comprehension skills, also lack nuance, Like like not
everything is for everybody. You don't have to agree with everything,
but there has to be a way in which you
dissect Are you watching this for pure entertainment value or

(49:38):
are you trying to get something from it? Again, back
to the question at the top, are you viewing this
to become smarter or are you selectively choosing to just
be ignorant and even how you're receiving.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 6 (49:50):
A part of new media that isn't probably talked about
enough or at least the messaging isn't I don't think
influence society at large quite yet. Is we're gonna have
new media, Like you said, everyone's got a microphone, everybody's
got an opinion. So now it becomes more incumbent upon
the listener to have literacy to understand what's going on,

(50:12):
and like, like you said, we're all gonna watch some
fluctionhit for fun.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
But I know that's fun. When I eat a whole pizza,
I know that's pizza. That's not vegetables. I know that
you have a vegetable.

Speaker 5 (50:26):
Like I know what this is.

Speaker 6 (50:27):
I know what a bag of funions is, and I
know what in the rugular salad is and I did
not the same thing. And so as long as you
understand what it is you're listening to watching intaking, I
think people would be better off that way. But trying to,
like you said, trying to run with stuff as if
it's facts or proven or it's a legitimate thing that's
a whole nother you gotta go to a whole another

(50:47):
source that you're not getting that off Instagram.

Speaker 5 (50:49):
And I call Cap on what he said about he
wished he could take it back. You could go outside
of a federal ass place and do that. You knew
that that was the whole intent about. And that's what
I was going to say.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
There's a there's a thing, there's a there's a drug
in virality and attention right now where where whether you
started something to want to do something like I did
with my blog and then ended up leaning into the
mess because that's what people wanted. We have to be
honest as content creators. Why we're putting out certain things,

(51:27):
why we're leading into certain clips going out instead of
the informational ones, Like we even sit on this podcast
and we'll deep dive into some things where we're bringing
up laws, we're bringing up things that are informational that
might not make the clip because we want to also
garner a reaction. Reaction.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
Basically, we study it.

Speaker 5 (51:47):
We study how our audiences are yeh, because we are
audience right. So it was like, all right, what are
the trends in the and there's no blueprint we are
living the blueprint, and.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Really we are.

Speaker 6 (51:58):
When I was writing Boss of Headline, I knew exactly
what's gonna be the reaction. As I was crafting that
ship the night before when something happened, I'm like, oh,
I know exactly what I'm gonna say tomorrow. I know
exactly how they're gonna react. I know exactly who's going
to retweet it. I know who's gonna retweet it, like
it and quote tweet it.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I was laying out, I was laying out his Jordan's
his shirt.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Yeah, like it was tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
I can't wait.

Speaker 6 (52:23):
When that ship happened with the with THEE, when they
came out as like a diehard report, I knew. I
was like, tomorrow morning, it's gonna be fun. I'm going
to flame this nigga, and it is gonna go crazy.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
You know what, I judge people when they when they
pick up when I pick that up, don't pick up
my Iberia.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
You know you don't worry. You gotta get that for
the people.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
You're gonna get that.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
Let me tell y'all how bad I am. And this
is me being selectively ignorant because bitch, I love. They
gotta write some peace box because write some peace take
a long time, right, got one dat it's real good, Nigga.
I went to three grocery stores looking for that guy.
I was looking for the Goya on the shelves, and

(53:15):
I said.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
She said, hey, hey man, anybody, anybody, anybody got somebody
free just the free giving away man, Hey many Nigga.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
I was like, I'm in Georgia. I know there's go products.
I know that they were not thrown off at the
Trump support Nigga. I went to three stores. Then my
ass on Amazon, like maybe I.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Can order that ship went to Highway. You should have
went right to beat Highway and you got that.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
When I tell you, even they like, like I said,
they little so free throwing ship, got that good ship,
like they cut down the time it takes to make
some really good show.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Has frozen planting. Wow, it's the easiest ship to do.
How do you do that?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
What time is it even saving you?

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Hold on? Hold on?

Speaker 1 (54:03):
You know what's crazy though, him knowing all the ship.

Speaker 3 (54:08):
Because I'm they got frozen peanut butter and jelly frozen.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Jelly Prez's cheese crustables is one of my favorite. Yes,
I don't do that I'm an uncrustable asshole.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Okay, we gotta do it class. We need an episode
we can I don't like uncrustable. I can make the
ship myself.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
Oh no, I just throw it out at all and
I wait for that thing too.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
On.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
This is what we're fighting on the time.

Speaker 2 (54:40):
Ye get you, get you all back on track. Can
I ask a question about words and word choices? Yes,
come on words and word choices, because because we've been
saying it, I think ar mind pouring oil on him
was good content but bad media.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
That makes sense?

Speaker 6 (55:01):
Are you like, from from a subjectives? Just looking at
it from a does this work? Or does this not work?

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Hell? Yeah, that should work? Right now?

Speaker 1 (55:12):
We all have let it work to do what? Just
garner attention?

Speaker 2 (55:18):
But that's what that's supposed to attention?

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Yeah, I would, but I would.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
Want to know again as a content creator, as a journalist,
when you do things like that for attention, a lot
of times we also want to do things to get subscribers,
to get money to get my things and work to
do what Because if he didn't get an influx abtraction
to his channel, or if he lost supporters for that,
did it really work?

Speaker 3 (55:43):
But here's the thing about it when you do this.
For some people doing this, they want two things out
of this.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
What do they want?

Speaker 6 (55:52):
They want to get paid and they want attention. Okay,
that's not that. Those are the two currencies that you
have here. So for him, he can come on there
and what I don't know what happened that would make
him say, oh, I regret it now, what happened? You
didn't lose anything, You didn't your house didn't.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
I think he didn't know how to handle the unwanted
attention right, Like to your point, like he wanted attention,
but then when he was getting some of the other attention,
which maybe was coming from people outside the community that
weren't going to stick with him and follow him, and
they were criticizing him. That's what I don't want him though, Like, yeah,
that's why he shouldn't apologize.

Speaker 3 (56:25):
Yeah, don't don't apologize.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
To stand on that and let it be what it is,
because it's going to be a degenerated outlet that's going
to give him a platform to do that wild ship
and then he's not.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
But he has his own platform, he doesn't even need.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
He got an oil fund that he's for people to
donate money. He could have, he could have.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
I just don't like the word fund, like fund sounds like.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Okay, that's so that's my second part of it, right,
Like there's uh so like I'm my people call me
aournalists identify as a journalist people, And I'm just I'm
just saying in terms of like having like a public profile. Right,
people refers to me as a journalist. I viewed myself
as journalism. I mean, went to journalism school, but like

(57:12):
I also published a newsletter, right and and so that's
probably like that's creator like, but I don't think of
myself as a creator. But those things it's probably almost
sillier for me to not think what I'm not. And
they just they're almost all the same thing. But there's
so many similarities.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Do you identify as a journalist because you went to
journalism school? I think that that's what I'm here.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
I think it's I think it's I think it's because
of the activities that I learned from the school that
I still do. So Like I operate my newsletter, I
make phone calls in my newsletter. I try to break
things in my newsletter. I'll get sources. Like it's not
just like this is it's not just off of vibes
or how I feel or what I think, Like there's
a there's a foundational element. I don't and I don't
mean that because, like I said, I think I.

Speaker 3 (57:53):
Want to go for accounting.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Anymore.

Speaker 2 (57:57):
But I think I think the oil fund is funny,
and I think that's it is I would I wouldn't
do that, right, but that's not like that's not my DNA,
but I think that is good content. But also the
idea of what like what you just said, you want
to accounting school. You went to school for accounting, but
that's not what you do anymore, but you run a
business that requires finance, right, And I think it's just curious,
like like what we call ourselves right where it's like

(58:19):
mandya are you a podcast? So you said you're a
creator job, what do you call yourself today?

Speaker 3 (58:24):
I call myself.

Speaker 6 (58:25):
I called myself a writer only because I didn't feel
comfortable with journalists a not just because I didn't go
to journalism school, but like my writing hasn't really appeared
in places that would be uh strict journalism media outlets,
Like I don't write for the AJAC. I don't write
for a newspaper. I didn't write for a magazine. But
I'm a guy who knows how to write and respects

(58:48):
the tenants of journalism because that's what makes for good writing,
that gives you credibility. So I don't consider myself a journalist,
but I try to operate within as many of those
tenants as I can in a given situation.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
So who ask me what I am? I just tell
them I'm a writer.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
I would say you're like a cultural critic or a cultural.

Speaker 6 (59:08):
Culture critic, because to me, journalism is a title that
you have earned through either school or your history of
integrity in your work.

Speaker 1 (59:18):
I think the way we are now trying to place
labels on titles in this space is the same that
people place titles on their sexuality. I don't give a
fuck about you, know what I mean? Like, I think
that we even try to tell someone what they are
or what they're not, and a part of me is
just like, eh, I don't know like that. I know
what I am right now as an author, but when

(59:39):
it comes to like podcasting, I know I don't do interviews.
I have conversations, So there's a different way in which
I delivered things as well, but again, I didn't go
to journalism school, so I would never sit up and
say I'm a journalist. Like I also don't like interviewing
too much.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
Like do you identify as a podcaster or a creator
or are they the same or is there difference?

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Is both? I do? I say media personality and podcaster.
I lean into both because I've also hosted a dating
show on MTV. I've also done stuff with Revolt and
like you know, I've done I've done a lot of
different things that take me outside of just sitting in
front of a mic.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
But this is what if I called you? What if
I called you a streamer? Because I I'm just like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I do want to stream, but that's the thing. I
don't live stream. I think once I get in front
of my cameras.

Speaker 2 (01:00:26):
On Instagram, on Instagram live like every morning.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Calm down, not every morning, once a week, calm down?

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
But is that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
But is that not? If you did it?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
The only difference is if you did it on Twitch.
But it would be the same thing. So you're could
I think I could honestly say you're.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
A streaming I say no, because the the everyday person
that might hop on an I g live because they're
around their friends. That doesn't make them a streamer. So
I would never call myself that until I get to
the place where I am live streaming. But just someone
hopping on a social no, it doesn't make everyone.

Speaker 8 (01:01:00):
Like you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Up to this sentence, you uploading a video to YouTube
does not make you a YouTuber. I just had this
this argument with redacted. I'm not gonna say his name
because I fucking think he sucks, but he literally tried
to t label me a YouTuber because I have a
YouTube channel, and I was like, no, my nigga, I'm
a podcaster. This is just another avenue of marketing for me.

(01:01:21):
It's like a commercial for me. But I've never identified
myself as a YouTuber because I don't go into the
algorithm of YouTube and fully like, damn, let me monetize this.
I don't care about my numbers on YouTube. I care
about my audio numbers on podcasting because this is where
I made my brother and product, and.

Speaker 6 (01:01:36):
I think some of it also, I would say for
me anyway, and I don't have I don't have a
YouTube channel or do any of those things right now.
But for me, it's to me, it's about what you
put your effort and investment into. If your effort in
investment is into podcasting, then I feel like it makes
sense to refer to your story as a podcaster. But
like you said, posting the content on Instagram, posting the

(01:01:58):
content on YouTube or whatever other platform doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Make you that Oh yeah, like you pulling up on
amateur Night and motherfucker don't think you know what I mean?
Like it don't.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
So I mean so our DJ streamers now, like like DJ.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Imagine, Yeah, you got a few DJ damage who gets
on TikTok every day. Like that's what I'm saying. You
could be more than one thing, like in this space. Yeah,
I mean this conversation with somewhere that I didn't expect
it to. Not me really just being like, y'all just
got to figure out how to fuck you digest shiit,
how you dissect it, how you consume it, like, because yeah,

(01:02:40):
it could be informational for you or it could just
be entertainment. But I need y'all to get the fuck
out of the comments when you just don't agree with somebody,
like someone is like, oh my god, I don't want
to listen to this ship. You know, you have a
choice you don't have to.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
Bruh.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
The hate listener is a whole other thing, but the hate.

Speaker 6 (01:02:57):
But we will never probably be able to quantify this
for this show, or probably any other show for that matter.
But I feel like for any platform that has grown
to a certain size, I'm just gonna make up an
arbitrary number because that's what these niggas do, right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
But I'm gonna say that that fine.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Is that fine?

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Hey, yeah, you're gonna put this in that fine?

Speaker 6 (01:03:17):
I would say that like anywhere from ten to maybe
even twenty percent of listeners of major programmers are hate listening,
hate watching.

Speaker 3 (01:03:28):
That's part of the audience, like they're coming back, Yeah,
their return.

Speaker 6 (01:03:32):
People hate Joe Rogan, but I will guarantee you there's
a lot of people listening to Joe Rogan who disagree
with everything he's saying.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
I listen to both I hate Joe Budden like the
podcast and even a lot of their taste. I don't
think that the way that I listen to them is
not the way that I listen to Van Lathan and
Rachel Lindsay. It's not the same way I listen to
the read. There's certain people that I do think do
a very well job and sharing their opinions because they

(01:04:02):
looked into it, they actually have a thought process from it.
Then there's another to hear people iterate things they read
on Twitter and not really stand true in having an
actual opinion. And I think for a podcast with fifty
eleven people, I listen to it and I'm more frustrated
that there's not a deeper take into their opinions and
why they have them. It's why I have this show,

(01:04:25):
Like I can respect people having a difference of opinion,
but when I bring on guests or when I talk
to y'all, I want to make sure that you have
an opinion because of your experience or because of your background,
not because you've been on Twitter all morning and now
your opinion has been crafted by the masses and now
you're just saying what you think the audience wants to hear.

(01:04:47):
And unfortunately, that's what I get from them. And then
when it gets deep, niggas make jokes because it's uncomfortable
to get deep because maybe now you feel dumb, So
for me it's entertaining. But I actually listen to it
kind of hate a lot of their takes. But there's
other platforms that I'm able to listen to during the
week where I gathered some information that I appreciate.

Speaker 6 (01:05:08):
I mean, And that's again, that just goes back to
what I was saying as far as the listener. If
you're the listener, you have more of a responsibility now
to understand what you're listening to. Yeah, and like view
it in that way and keep it keep things in
their proper perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
So, Jason, what do we want to ask the audience
to sit with after this conversation. What's the question we're
going to give them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
It's cool and I've been thinking about a lot of it.
I guess I was going to ask you this question,
but maybe we should ask it to the audience. Remember
when we did the R and B episode and you
were like you were differentiating between soul and R and B,
and you should it for R and B. I have
to feel it in my heart and feel it in
my pants. Mandy B says this, Yep, right. So I
was going to ask you what makes media, like what

(01:05:50):
makes media today?

Speaker 5 (01:05:51):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
What are what are the things that make media? And
you know, Job said something interesting where it's like it's
not you know the thing that you use, but it's
what you do right or how you identified. But I
don't know, is it something to work to ask the audience,
like what what are the characteristics that they think for media?

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
For me, media media should be differentiated between informational and entertainment.
And I think that we kind of blurred the lines
there just a little bit. And it's like I said,
it's why I like listening to a Van Lathan or
even an antinette on around the way Curls because there's
thought out research done which may lean into more bit

(01:06:27):
of journalism. Like there's actual read and there's actual fact.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Opinions.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
Oh my god, there's the sharing of facts and breaking
down the history of it and actually delivering it away
where I'm learning. And then there's the difference having opinion
on some ship and now it's this is just for
me to get my will spinning, but someone's opinion never
really teaches me anything, if that makes sense. I don't

(01:06:56):
think people listening here like what what I hope people
get from any of the platforms that I'm on is
what I'm y'all know, what I'm gonna do is give
a motherfucking opinion. But I'm not telling you how to think.
I don't believe everything I say is right or wrong.
It's my opinion, and so I just push people to
have their own. But to me, that's how I distinguish
between media as a whole, Like what I'm gathering from it,

(01:07:20):
soaking in and actually learning, and then what I'm just watching.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Being entertained by me to be entertained.

Speaker 8 (01:07:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:07:26):
I mean a while ago, I had a conversation with
my homegirl in New York and she was she was
calling what I do news and I was like, I
don't really do news, Like yeah, you do, and I
was like, nah, I don't really do the news, and
she was like, well, you know, you post stories that
real things happening that people are reading and consuming, and

(01:07:48):
you're doing it with you know, the facts, even if
there's like some comedy in there or some you know,
like I said, crazy headlines and shit like that. But
you're doing stories that people are reading about, whether it's
something entertainment or something police brutality or whatever scandal is
going on in public eye at the time, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
And I'm like, but that's not news. And we went
back and forth about this for like thirty minutes.

Speaker 6 (01:08:09):
And this is a conversation that happened maybe a decade ago,
and you know, now we're here in this space having
this conversation when so much of the media has changed.

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
But to her point, people think everything is the news.

Speaker 5 (01:08:24):
They do.

Speaker 6 (01:08:25):
But the news is supposed to be journalism, information, facts, research,
all this stuff you were talking about, that's the news.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
But now it's just like the news just means what
just happened thirty minutes ago, Yeah, to people, And that's
not what I post.

Speaker 6 (01:08:37):
What can I post? What is the what story just broke?
I don't have all the information, but I know for
a fact this thing happens, so I can talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
I mean, even the fact that music reviews, which at
one point was a bit of journalism, Like Jason, you
are part of that landscape. I was a music sign,
you were period. It is now album dropped Friday, ten
hours into listening. Now they're spewing their thoughts and critiques
on an album that hasn't even been out for twenty

(01:09:04):
four hours.

Speaker 5 (01:09:05):
I don't mind that you don't because I have a
so and this is kind of leaning into outside of
the content creation podcast space. On the music side, I
have a rule. I know, I a record is dope.
Fifteen seconds in okay easy, I'm not just saying that
this is a this is a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
Records don't grow on you because I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:23):
They still grow.

Speaker 2 (01:09:24):
That's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
I know. When when is when is lit?

Speaker 1 (01:09:28):
But the thing is, he said, I like showers, not growers.
W wild, He said, I know what fifteen seconds if

(01:09:48):
I want to be.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Baby, I forgot no sidebar, not a sidebar.

Speaker 5 (01:09:58):
But when you said you didn't know how to identify yourself, right,
I went over to the new Oh, I went over
to the New Black Slaw Dictionary of Chat GPT, and
they said that you are a journalist, editor, and cultural commentator.

Speaker 1 (01:10:17):
Not identified.

Speaker 5 (01:10:20):
Let me tell you what happened when I put his
name in there, right, they gave me the other Jason Lee.
Of course, Oh, mister hip hop, they said, Oh, let
me let me. That's what I'm gonna get to, mister Reguez.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Second, it says great distinction. Oh yo, this ship is crazy.
Jason A.

Speaker 5 (01:10:42):
K A is a different figure from Jason Lee from
talk about period, period talk about that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
So he gave that assessment.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
Dam I should have actually introduced you as just Jason
Lee and people.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
People figure.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
He south straight?

Speaker 3 (01:10:57):
So uh where Mandy said?

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Uh? Uh?

Speaker 5 (01:11:03):
Mandy B is an immediate entrepreneur, podcaster, and sex positive
cultural commentator.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
Okay, that's good.

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
I'm not mad at that's good for mister.

Speaker 5 (01:11:12):
It says, oh maybe no. Jason ro Reguez is a
veteran hip hop journalist and media executive who's worked as
an editor and strategious and cultural story shape strategious.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
It's crazy, it's strategy.

Speaker 5 (01:11:26):
We in a we're in a society of the generators
about bringing back cursive writing.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
I never got We're old. I still do cursive Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:11:42):
The fact they bring it back is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:11:46):
Who's work as an editor, strategist and cultural storyteller has
shaped how narratives and document and document how shake back?

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
Come on chat t help me out with the other
ship speak GPT.

Speaker 5 (01:12:02):
Jason Royrigguez is a veteran hip hop journalist and media
executive who's worked as an editor, strategist, and cultural storyteller
has shaped how hip hop narratives are documented and shared
across digital platform not documented.

Speaker 3 (01:12:14):
Choking you up?

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
What about you a king?

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
But if I hold this up on my content creator.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
A little mini microphone.

Speaker 5 (01:12:27):
I've seen someone I'm not gonna say they name because
I don't know if I really like their content like that.
That's funny and they've been in but they had the
little ship and I'm like, look at this nigga. Sorry
I'm doing look at this degro with the ship on
his chin. But anyway, it says uh A. King is
a pioneering podcast producer, pioneering yeah period, talent manager, and

(01:12:48):
cultural curator whose work has shaped hip hop podcasting and
champion authentic storytelling across music and media.

Speaker 1 (01:12:55):
Do y'all see we coatsing this motherfucker I'm talking about?
All right, well, y'all, we are about to sign on
out Jason Lee the one, thank you see one period Jah,
thank you for joining us.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Always would love you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:12):
To join us whenever you are. And I'm waiting for
you to get on a goddamn microphone even though niggas
ail like no more microphones for the black community. There
we go, period period, will y'all. This is another episode
of Selective Ignorance, where curiosity lives, controversy thrives, and conversations matter.

(01:13:33):
See you next week.

Speaker 3 (01:13:35):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Selective Ignorance a production of the Black Effect Podcast Network
For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Thanks for tuning in the Selective Ignorance of Mandy B.
Selective Ignorance. It's executive produced to buy Mandy B. And
it's a Full Court Media studio production with lead producers
Jason Rodriguez, That's me and Aaron ak. Now, do us
a favor and rate, Subscribe, comment and share wherever you
get your favorite podcasts, and be sure to follow Selective
Ignorance on Instagram at Selective Underscore Ignorance. And of course,

(01:14:12):
if you're not following our hosts Mandy B, make sure
you're following her at Full Court pumps Now. If you
want the full video experience of Selective Ignorance, make sure
you subscribe to the Patreon It's patreon dot com backslash
Selective Ignorance

All Episodes

Ep. 21 | New Media vs. Journalism feat. Jason "Jah" Lee

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 21 | New Media vs. Journalism feat. Jason "Jah" Lee