Ep. 23 | Pay Us What You Owe Us feat. Giovonnie Samuels & Sy Ari - Selective Ignorance with Mandii B

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Selective Ignorance. However,

(00:03):
before we get to this week's episode, I want to
remind you guys to purchase my book No Holds Barred,
a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. So feel
free to go to your local bookstores preferably queer owned,
black owned, or woman owned to support them, but also
just click the button on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, or

(00:23):
wherever you read your books. Again. That is No Holds Barred,
a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power, written by
yours truly and my co host of the Decisions Decisions podcast, Weezy.
Make sure y'all get that. Now, let's get to this
week's episode. This is Mandy be Welcome to Selective Ignorance,
a production of The Black Effect Podcast Network and Iart Radio.

(00:44):
All right, y'all, let's get into it because today's topic
it's a spicy one. I'm your host, Mandy Vee, and
this is another episode of Selective Ignorance, and we gonna
call this episode pay us what you Owe. But before
y'all get too deep in your feelings, let's really break
down what that oh even means, see as someone who

(01:07):
owns a business. I wrestle with this every day, and
there's this fine ass line between self worth and actual,
real life value. You can feel like you're worth a
million and listen, I love that confidence for you. But
does that feeling match your impact, your skill set, your return,
or what anyone's actually willing to pay you? Or is
it just vibes and delusion dressed up? Is what you

(01:29):
feel like you quote unquote deserve. Now, don't get it twisted.
I believe in a living wage. Okay, no one should
be out here working full time and still wondering how
they're gonna eat or keep the lights on. I get it.
But here's where it gets tricky. If you sign a contract,
agree to a job, accept the terms, and show up
every day, can you really cry foul after the fact,

(01:50):
or are you mad that you just didn't negotiate better,
or fight for yourself or leverage those skills and tools
and things that make you worth more than what you've
agreed to. Because in this world, especially in this capitalistic structure,
it's not about what you deserve, it's about what you
can negotiate. Closed mouths don't get fair, right. But on
the flip side. Should companies be praised for squeezing every

(02:13):
ounce out of people just because they can. Should we
side with the business for playing the game, or should
we side with the employee who chose to play the
game but didn't know all of the rules. It gets
real murky in this conversation, real nuance. So today we're
diving in it, and of course I'm not doing it
by myself. But the questions that we're gonna ask today
are what do we really mean when we say pay

(02:36):
us what you owe us? Are we talking justice or
are we just in our feelings? Because those are not
the same thing. Buckle up, this is not gonna be
black and white like your girl, I'm black and white,
But today I don't know. I don't know what side
of the coin I'm gonna lean on. Y'all are probably
gonna hear me be a heavy hypocrite as normal. We

(02:59):
are joined by our super producers A King and Jason
in the building. But but listen, listen. But I'm joined
today by some people to help me with the nuance
of this, and I thought it was important. I'm in
the media space. I'm joined by my good friend who's
in the music industry, and my other new good friend

(03:23):
who's in the TV industry. To break it all down,
let me introduce them to you. We have cyri De Kid,
who y'all already have met in a previous episode where
we talked about geographical different Oh my god, shut up.
He is a multi talented creator and recording artist who
hosts Sorry not Sorry, I want to say it like that.

(03:43):
Sorry sorry, sorry not sorry, There we Go show, and
earlier this year, he released his most recent project, My
Next Ex, which, by the way, doom clips. All the
content around that was so fucking dope. I'm also going
to tell you, like I tell every when I know
when I'm not used for music videos or interludes, I

(04:04):
feel the way.

Speaker 2 (04:05):
Are you a vixen?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
We're not gonna do that.

Speaker 3 (04:07):
I could be the voice stuff on the album? Would
you do?

Speaker 1 (04:11):
I want to be a vixen.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
I want to be on the album cover.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
I want to be on an interlude. And I feel
away when I be seeing all this shit happen, and
I'm like, I didn't decline, I didn't get the offer,
Like where is it at?

Speaker 2 (04:25):
We're friends?

Speaker 1 (04:26):
I mean, but I could still be a vixen, y'all,
don't even know high key, low key, don't know when
it's going to come into production, but we're supposed to
be boyfriend and girlfriend in.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
An upcoming in the film.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Here's your chance. The other voice that you guys will
be hearing on this week's episode, you guys will know
her face if you're watching on the YouTube, because I
knew her face immediately. We have Giovanni Samuels, who is
the host of the Tokens podcast, the author of All
That You Need to Know about the show business for

(05:00):
getting started to working on set in the business. She's
an actress who appeared prominently on All That and if
you don't know about All That, look at you. If
you don't know about All That, you were too young
to probably be listening to this podcast. And she is
currently the executive producer of Good Judies. Hello, I'm so

(05:26):
glad that you agreed to come on here. Course, by
the way, I want you all to know I really
mean what I say. I've met Giovanni in first class
coming back from Essence Fest. Yes, and where normally I
sleep the whole flight. Me AND's bitch talk the whole time,
entire flight from New Orleans to Atlanta. Delta. I'm we

(05:51):
was on Delta, and I will say too, and maybe
it's because it's Atlanta. It was the first time in
my life. And also you're coming from essence best. The
entire first class was.

Speaker 3 (06:03):
Black and black black from black and and black yo.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
Because black and black black and the black black blaf
for levels of black like all black.

Speaker 5 (06:14):
So your question, yes, what was the demographic of flight
attendant as it relates to a gender and race?

Speaker 6 (06:23):
I'm just curious.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
She was a white blonde. She was a white blonde
in first class.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
She was she was a little older she was, and
you could you could tell, like as the plane started
filling up, it was like she had a little she
started getting she started getting more and more of an
attitude as more and more of us started filling the
first class. And I was the last person to get on.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
You was about to get left, Yes, mind you hold on,
let me let me tell you how I was also
just waiting. I said, who the gonna sit by me?
And I say this because as I'm looking around, Samia
from Housewives is once seating over to the left right,
Kavene what's her name? Kadeen? Kadeen from Devell and Kadeen

(07:05):
UH podcast shout out to them. She was right across
from us. Kofe was in the front two roads. Kofe
what's his last name? Oh no, he was fine, he
was in there. There was a couple of execs that
I was.

Speaker 7 (07:26):
And then Drew Ski was one one to the and
mind you a story that I've never shared on before
we get into what we were talking about in first class.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So I go to All Star weekend this year, and
I've gone to All Star weekends if y'all know, that's
the only place that I'm going to run into niggas.
I even NBA All Star Weekend. So it was in
San Francisco, UH this year, and I go and I'm
at fucking Kenny's party, and I'm running into all of

(08:03):
like the people that I grew up watching. So I'm
literally I congratulate Vince Carter on becoming part owner of
the bills. I run into. I'm just everybody that I
grew up watching at Kiss. The old head, the old heads. No, no, no,
these are the old heads that were out before I
was out in the streets. So was the older heads.

(08:25):
So I'm running into all these old heads. Anyways, I'm
with my friends shout out to Christo and Keith, and
I literally say, I ain't taking pictures nobody. The one
person I wanted to see all weekend, I said, but
if I see Drew Ski, oh my god, to hold up,
let we'll talk about I know. So you responded exactly
how I did, just you know, but I already did it.
That's why I was like trying to play cool because
I got myselfie already. So I see Drew Ski on

(08:48):
this flight, but I already So anyways, San Francisco is
the last night. He's at the Talent hotel that I'm at.
So I see Sweetie over there sitting down. Me and
my friends were all all like drinking after the game,
and we're in this booth and literally I get up
to be introduced. So it's all their weekend, all star games,

(09:11):
all the festivities are over. This is the last night.
And so I'm at this table and I get up
to be introduced to somebody, and I'm like, okay, cool, yeah,
I'm familiar. I'm in the middle of being introduced to Rafael.
I love you already so much, in the middle of.

Speaker 6 (09:30):
Him talking no.

Speaker 1 (09:33):
No, my friend is like, bitch, trues is over there. Okay, okay,
So I literally dub conversation there with a group of
you can talk. This is I don't bitch judge me.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I'm a millennial.

Speaker 6 (09:50):
He was singing Lucy Pearl.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
The baby face.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
No, don't do that. I didn't do that. I didn't
do that. But he was talking to us as a group,
and I was like, thanks to meet y'all, be right back.
I I dipped all over the most fucking drug Ski
and right on over and I was like, Drewski, just
have to tell you, you're my favorite person on the internet.
And I told all my friends that if I saw you,

(10:18):
you was gonna be the only one. I need a
picture week, So can I get a selfie? He was
super dope, super dope, super cool. It's funny too, because
we were trying to figure out what party there was
that night, and there was some party with fucking ja
Jah Paculia and fucking Kevin Hart on it, and so
I'm like, well, there's right, so random, right, so so listen.

(10:38):
So so Drewsky's like, oh, okay, so where are you going?
So I literally I'm like, well, there's this fire and
he looks at it and he laughs. What he said,
Kevin just got on his PJ. He's not gonna be there,
kept headed back to LA. He literally is like, Kevin's
not going to be there. Well he's on the far No, no, no, no,
that niggas headed back to LA. I know this, per fact,

(11:00):
I don't know if you want to go to that
party because Kevin is not gonna be there. And that
ship was so funny, but yeah, it was dope. Met him,
bringing it back to meeting the lovely Giovanni. So we're
on this flight and we ended up talking about just
where we're at in terms of creative space business. I

(11:21):
was like, girl, I'm gonna be drinking because this was
a long weekend. So I'm ordering my drinks and you
could see I think everybody was drinking on this flight
because the goddamn first class attendant she looked bad.

Speaker 6 (11:32):
Yes, let's give her name. The blonde was.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
The blonde blonde?

Speaker 6 (11:36):
You think the blonde.

Speaker 5 (11:37):
Had had any like percentage of her that wanted to
check your seat status to make sure that y'all know
we were.

Speaker 6 (11:46):
Not that she was going to But I'm just saying
that part of it was like the same ship.

Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yeah, well, no, I came on the plane last because
I was she did.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
She came on very last. I'm surprised she made the flight. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:59):
I was last one to get on because I was
trying to rush and get there, and that's how Kofie
ended up seeing me. Yes, that's why everybody in first class.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Everyone saw her because you're ready. We had to play
tetris to fit her goddamn bags.

Speaker 5 (12:12):
It was one small suit case, but because she came
on last.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
We had to figure it out. Okay, we're good.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
Hey, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
We're here now.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
First, a first class flight is just nasty.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Because everyone has their drinks and hands and now we
got to make sure we don't spill our drinks because
we literally got to make sure her luggage can fit
and so we're moving it around. It was all. Everyone
was really friendly though, because we're all like bro, this
was a full ass black ass was chilled. Was so chilled.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
As many times as I flown, I have one never
seen it that black and black before ever, unless it's
for I don't know, like Howard home coming, you know, uh,
And to everybody, the vibe, it just it.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Was almost like we was at a lounge. Yeah everybody, okay,
but yes, but no, calm down.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
A little bit more, uh black adjacent.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Because to be fair, we're all like talking to each
other from across the seats, like coffee stands up and
and oh my god, I haven't seen you, but like
everyone knows each other in the space. So literally we're
all ordering our drinks. But then we're all kind.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Of talking, talking across the whole. And that's why black
people can't get first class. Wait, why we get into
a classroom.

Speaker 6 (13:48):
We don't know how.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
I just enjoy it that.

Speaker 4 (13:50):
Had we not been talking, Yeah, we wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
That wouldn't we wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
She finally sits down. It's ope, and I'm like, hmm,
that's how you look familiar.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Right, that's good network.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
And I was like, you're on all that. She was like, yes,
that's me. But then catching up on all the things
that she's a part of. Now she has something that
aligns with what I like, and she has a podcast
to this podcast coming out, and I'm just like, oh,
let's work. But also, you're in Atlanta. So we end
up having lunch the same week and have been texting,

(14:26):
and I invited her to go outside yet because I'm outside.

Speaker 4 (14:30):
She's a whole mother, yes, but outside.

Speaker 3 (14:36):
I only like single moms newly single. As long as
we're good.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
You're aggon. So yeah, No, it was a dope experience
and I'm just looking to support her. So if you
listen to pods, I'm excited for years to drop to lunch,
to get into all the things it's.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
New, ready to drop its talk about her? Yes, yeah,
So it's called the Tokens. And I interview the token
black character in front or behind the camera about their
their time.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (15:11):
So I start out, I guess like this first round
or so is a token black child stars?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (15:17):
And I talked to my friend Gary L.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Gray.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
He was damn near the token on everything. You might
remember him as like Little Nelson from The Cosby Show
grew up and he was on Bring it On with Me.
And then another friend of mine, his name is Gus Carr.
He was the token Hispanic kid on like Barney and
Friends like ohh, I go across the spectrum. I even
have a conversation with Brandon Hammond. He was the token

(15:42):
black kid of the nineties. Oh, he was the little
boy from Soul Food and so he talks about how
I can't you know what he went through? So it's
a love letter. Yeah, yeah, so it's a love letter
for I guess my generation of actors that grew up
in this industry their flowers because when we were coming up,

(16:03):
there was no social media.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
There wasn't platform.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
There was a platform like this, there's nothing. And the
other side is I guess a gift to the fans
and the viewers, like, Hey, this is what I went through.
This is how you avoid this being that token on set.

Speaker 3 (16:18):
Like should need to be put out more to though,
because a lot of y'all you hear about like, oh
this is allegedly how they turned out or this is
allegedly why they turned out.

Speaker 2 (16:25):
But given that aspect is.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
Going to be dopeeah he king, we might need to
ep this and get this on the Black Effect Network
just say make the play.

Speaker 4 (16:32):
Hey, I mean I am taking offers.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 4 (16:40):
I again, I wanted those type of conversations that we
have from our experience. It's coming you know, it's coming out.
It's coming practice to us. But other people need to
know and hear this so that they know how to
navigate and move.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
It's also why I'm really excited for you to join
in on this conversation because I can only imagine in
the nineties not only what children's stars, how they were
taken advantage of, but also again being black in Hollywood.
And I've heard Gabrielle Union, We've heard Taraji p Henson,
We've heard all these people recently speak out about the

(17:17):
pay gaps between white stars and black Also with kids,
it was very different for kids too, and then they
had their parents very different. So and then I have
you on to speak from the music perspective of it,
in terms of the advances and what you technically owe
back and what really you get to keep and then

(17:38):
you know all of those and owning your IP. The
last time you were here, we didn't have this segment,
and so I want to start off with the double
down or take it back. And I have a clip
from your podcast actually that recently came out where you're
sitting with a guest. It's not with your your co host,

(18:00):
but the subject matter. I would love to know where
you stand on this clip and so and so let's
go ahead and play this clip real quick.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Public we make deals all the time, all the time.
Your mortgage is a deal. You buy a house, You
did a deal for a mortgage to sign up for
thirty years to get compounded interest where you get charge
to primium.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
If it's killing, my mortgage company is fucking me. That's what.
I didn't like that deal, but you took it. But
I took it.

Speaker 3 (18:34):
But it gave the place to stay and provided you
feeling at that sense of accomplishment.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
Major work. The hard work you put in made it
feel worthwhile.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
We take the good with the bad, and life is
about experiences and learning from because because now you're about
to learn, I got out of all my situations because
I had eggs of clothes, right, I didn't have a
lot of good deal. But if that X gloves was gone,
that same good deal because you and you think he
was able to get out, which I got out a
lot of my situations, and I had get out money.

(19:05):
A lot of niggas ain't had that money me and
money Man had when we asked to get out our deal.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
They didn't have that three hundred four hundred thousand we did.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
So it's funny because I take it there ain't no
exit clause in that mortgage. Did you sign?

Speaker 2 (19:17):
No?

Speaker 3 (19:18):
No, that's not how that that world don't even allow that.

Speaker 1 (19:22):
Okay, so then let's have just the overall conversation. But
before we get there, do you still stand by what
was said in this clip about there just being bad
deals and if you have to take accountability for signing
those bad deals you stand on this clip.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I stand on what I said, but I also agree
with what Boomman said from that perspective of what he
was saying and what he's basically saying that you signed
the deal, so honor what you signed. Also, you got
to take the good with the bad. That's understandable. We
later on into the episode got into my issue with

(19:58):
him giving those deals. It's a little different than him
relating it to the real estate, which I didn't like
that analogy, because we were just holding him accountable for
not giving the people that he was signing the game
on how the business works before they get into that deal.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
So if I'm about to sign you when.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
I know you green and you don't have a lawyer,
I'm like, oh nah, just sign give me the game.
And that's what I was holding them accountable too. It
wasn't just about the deal, the good and the bad.
It was about are you are you letting him know
what can happen or if this opportunity to get his
master's later, or or you just saying, oh, I know,
you don't know shit, Come on, your talented come on,
it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
But I don't like that side of it.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
It's crazy because and we'll get into the gam I mean,
we're just let's just kind of lay it out.

Speaker 4 (20:40):
Because I'm fuming right now.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
Oh okay, A, why are you fuming? But B I
just want to respond to you real quick. Yeah, because
in my introduction I talk about who do we I
guess now we can use the word accountable? Who do
we hold more accountable the business getting the bad deal
or the person signing it that doesn't know any better?
And to me, yeah, okay, I was good. Okay. What

(21:04):
made you feel though?

Speaker 8 (21:05):
Then?

Speaker 4 (21:05):
About because especially from a child star perspective, you don't
know you getting a bad deal. Also, that is the
standard deal, which is yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
So if you don't have leverage, by the.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Way, if you only if you don't have leverage, yes, agreed,
But if you don't, I don't know how to I
don't know how to say this without like just.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Okay, because here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
And and and here's the thing with what it stems
down to is ignorance.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Essentially it is.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
And so for us getting into podcasting, digital content, a
lot of us being first time entrepreneurs, even our parents
were not that so we're literally learning as we go, right,
Like we don't we don't have family members. Like when
we talk about generational wealth and nepotism, people are often
put into positions where their parents have figured out a
good enough blueprint to get them a certain amount of wealth,

(22:10):
to navigate things, to be able to afport attorneys, to
be able to do the things that they need to
do to land business.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
However, where a lot of us, whether you start off
as a child worker or you're first time entrepreneur, there's
ignorance and knowing what is even a good deal or
a bad deal. And it's what we saw with I
mean a lot of people in podcasting is it's what
I what I mentioned. As soon as you start monetizing,
you got to invest in a lawyer because you're not

(22:38):
gonna mind you legal talk. Maybe it might as well
be manned during bitch and mind you. I'm American as fuck.
English is my only language. When you look at contracts
that may as well be written in Shakespeare. It is
Arabic English, it's not that. And so you really need

(23:02):
someone to be able to go in and interpret because
so the problem is not that you're signing the deal,
but it is the fact more that you're signing a
deal that you're you're unaware of what you're signing.

Speaker 4 (23:12):
So I had a lawyer and it's still.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Okay, wait, you had a lawyer, and.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
I'll even go further. My mom's an entrepreneur, has been
my entire life. Okay, so I've always been I guess
and net enough to know how to run business, even
from a young age. My mom made it a priority
that I was in charge of my career and my business. Now,
with that being said, of course, you can only I
can only do so much a minor. We had a lawyer.

(23:43):
All that was my first job.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
Great first job, damn mine was.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
And they's still they still fucked you.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
I was paid the least and worked the most.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Do the color you think, well, they had other color?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Were you? Were you not there with none?

Speaker 5 (24:03):
No?

Speaker 1 (24:03):
No, that's not a crazy But they did have like Latina,
they they don't have no keen aint.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
Kell and everybody. So when I came on, all that
they were doing a hard rebrand, so it was an
entirely new cast, new show. You know, they were picking
kids who had some kind of credits, had something. I
had something. But this was my first series regular.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (24:30):
So with that being said, I had a lawyer, I
had a manager, and I had an agent, and I still.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
None of them fought for you for what you feel
like you should have gotten, Like the pay is what
you owe is conversation which we'll get into with the
WNBA with you, what do you feel like they did
wrong in the deal that you did end up signing.

Speaker 4 (24:54):
If they were for the second season, there should have
been a a whole lot more money second and third season.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (25:03):
So first season okay, understandable. Yeah, they paid for us
to move because we were living in San Diego, and
they paid for us. They gave us a pret DM
like as far as my team, they did a good
job of covering the basics all of that extra And
again this is my first series regular. I get it,

(25:25):
my pay is not going to be what it should be.
But when we got to the second season and we
were winning awards and get in show, yo, like where
the money at it? And now you don't have to
pay for my livings because I moved. I moved to
la and was there full time. Did all your promo stuff,

(25:48):
did all of those extra things. There was a lot
of stuff that they did behind the scenes, like work
days where we should have got paid and we didn't.
Oh shit, there was several of those.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Now here's my question. You said you made the least.
Do you feel like you were old more because you
found out what other people were making?

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Oh, somebody sent there. Somebody else is steck to me accidentally.
So that's how I found out that I know.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Wait in the mail because back then we got checks
in the mail. Oh so you got someone else's.

Speaker 4 (26:15):
Check, somebody else's check, and open it up.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
How much? How much more was it than yours? And
you don't have to say who it was or anything,
but I'm not going to say it was.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
It was.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
It was definitely like sure she does, I'd say like
six to seven bands, more more.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Cooking, oh ship, And this is in the nineties. That's
a lot of money. Two thousands, two thousands, okay, early early.

Speaker 6 (26:37):
Still gas prices was still one.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
You could get a three bedroom for seven fifty back
like it was white.

Speaker 4 (26:46):
Yes in mail wow, narrowed.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
It down loud.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Let me know, I can I say something honest? Yeah,
And I'm gonna say this in two different ways. One
and I know you put up a clip with booming,
so I'm addressed this, and then I'm addressed in another way
because I'm sure she wasn't dealing with black people. That
was saying right on the black side for me personally,
if you're if you're black and you're allowing somebody to

(27:12):
do a contract that doesn't benefit them and giving them
some type of game on how it works in advance
before they make the choice to do something, because some
black people will do whatever for an opportunity, right, and
it is sacrificing everything when you lack leverage. If you're
black and you're not giving any type of game to
the person under you that's trying to come up knowing
you went through it, you're a bitch ass nigga, or

(27:32):
you a bitch ass whole. I don't fuck with you
type of people. I don't like that shit at all.
I don't give fuck how you want to put it
all you signed, shut up, nigga. I don't like it.
Everybody I work with that's coming up, I give them
game because niggas didn't do me like yeah, now I'm
gonna move forward from that. On the other side of things,
a ruling business for me as a hustler, I don't
give a fuck what a nigga making on another block.

(27:53):
But I'm making what I charge is what I charge,
So I'm never concerned about somebody else's pocket. No offense
to what you're talking about. If I see another nigga,
I'm just motivated, white all black. I don't be like, oh, well,
why aren't I getting this. I don't really get like that, right,
So I feel like, if you know what you I'm
just saying. But in terms of me, anybody in business personally,
your cards are your cars, and you deal them how

(28:13):
you deal them. Now in business, I tell people you
don't if you don't have leverage, you have no negotiation
in any room. And so I do feel like everybody
has their different sacrifice for a certain period of time
until you can come back and renegotiate things. Honor your terms,
Honor it, whatever lines you have in your shit with
your lawyer or whoever else. You honor it, and if
you can renegotiate something, you do that same that you

(28:36):
can do well, like I said, with real estate, you
can come back and renegotiate, refinance whatever that's possible as well.
But once you agree to something to me, I believe
you should honor it. White black irons. You said all
different type of colors, Yeah, all the colors.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
Well, here's the thing that I want to add to that,
and it's going to lean into where I'm at as
a creative and what Giovanni just leaned into in terms
of seeing someone else's pay, right, you don't know what
you can even charge sometimes for things, or what you
can negotiate if you don't know the landscaper standards. And again,

(29:08):
as someone that was black, yeah and so and for
the people representing her maybe didn't think a little black
girl at that time deserved to pay as a little
white boy because racism. And so if we for me,
I'm constantly telling people the checks that I get from networks,

(29:30):
from bookings, from hostings, because to me, as black creatives,
as people who are my peers, you might not know
that that type of check is even available to you
if people don't share that information, and that's where they're ignorant.
And and here's the other part of the of the pie.
For me as a as a creative who now has

(29:51):
seen certain checks, I get mad at my peers for
accepting penny because it's like, now I'm bro, you fucking everybody,
and it goes to everybody somewhere. No no, no, no, no, no, no,
it doesn't matter. So here's the thing. Here's the thing
where you're like, I could see somebody else's check, but

(30:11):
I'm gonna still make my own price. To me specifically
is black creators. If we're talking about what we're owed,
it's important for other black creators to share what their
ceiling is because, bro, another black creator, whether you view
me the same or not, that company just sees a
black face withut.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
With numbers all the time, Yes, a.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Lot of times, unless they're specifically coming for me for
a specific role. If a company just needs to MAE,
don't need fill quota, period, that black creator that might
be accepting five thousand when the budget is twenty five thousand.
They might not even know that twenty five thousand is
available to them unless other black creators are like, wait,

(30:55):
that company, I got this check from them, you can
get more from what I was told the older generation
would do that.

Speaker 4 (31:06):
What you're saying right now sare rate. Yes, share their
rate like Marla Gibbs and all that older generation because
there weren't that many black roles available. If I got
the audition, I'm gonna call you up, like, yo, did
you get this?

Speaker 2 (31:23):
All right?

Speaker 4 (31:24):
Cool, here's the here's the information. Blah blah blah. One
of us is gonna get it.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Hey.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
In fact, let's all car pull together. That's what they
did because they knew somebody was gonna get it. They knew, Okay,
this is how much I charge, this is what you
should do. There's been some kind of disconnect between that
generation and now where that is not happening.

Speaker 3 (31:47):
Because created equals with this humble nigga ship. I'm black too,
by the way, so I can say this, put the ship.
Every fucking person podcasting is not Mandy.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Let's stop it. Many could put her rate out of
all she wants.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
If I see another chick like oh, y'all I need
to give with me. No, sorry, No, you're not busting
your ass like Mandy. You're not doing the extra leg
works like man, you're not doing the research like men.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Wait, we didn't talk about standards though, right.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
We need too because you're blacked the men you get
Mandy's paid, right, right, right?

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I agree?

Speaker 4 (32:29):
I agree.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
However, and we're talking about the standard rate where we've
been talking about over the last couple of years with
all these podcasters getting one hundred million dollar deals, and
where I'm like, we're or people, and people disagree with
me because of course, the the sentiment is that they're
getting it because they're white. And when I have to
defend these white people, it pisses me off because I'm like, whoa, whoa,

(32:54):
those numbers aren't compared to our numbers. So if we
bring down numbers when they're getting ten million downloads and
I'm getting one hundred thousand, No, I can't think that
my check is going to be as big as heart check,
you know what I mean. But for me, as we're
all excelling, all elevating in this space, whether you're an
artist and actor, we're talking about standards. So say, and

(33:16):
I can take this back to corporate because I loved
doing that because I used to be in corporate when
I was a year one staff account. Then you have
year two staff account, then you have manager, then you
have senior manager, we can kind of layer a creative
or an actor or even an artist into those same spaces.
And so that's where we're saying a standard has to exist.

(33:37):
If you are an up and coming artist and you're
taking a five thousand dollars bag at a festival, but
another up and common artist with very similar numbers is
somehow able to get twenty thousand, there needs to be
a conversation as to how there's a fifteen thousand dollars.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
A month professionals. Now, if you just categorize in the
niggas with WEP and coming, yeah they not, then that's
that's where I'm like, Hey, you got to get your
ship together.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
But I know who my peers are, right, You know
who your peers are. You were just on a tour.
You when I met you, you were opening up for
Eric Bell. Though you don't have to shoot out.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
No no, no, no no no, she's down playing herself and
I don't like you.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
No New York Times bestseller.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
We got to stop this.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
No, but I get it.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
But let's be very clear.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
I can say I know who my peers are. No, no, no,
And I think that that's where you have egos and
you have reality. That's what we're going to get into
when we talk even about the w NBA players coming up,
and we're gonna be down for some ignorance and we're
going to determine value since you brought it right. So
I am aware with the people who like like Giovanni,
who may know that who her peers are going up

(34:53):
against certain roles, right, they know what role where they're
going to be at on the call sheet, and I
another black actress, whether they compare or not for me,
oh nigga. I know which podcasters are making similar to
about the same amount of money as me. I know
what I'm able to negotiate and the people who can't

(35:15):
negotiate what I negotiate.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
I know that.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
But I know my peers too, So I can look
at podcasters that know who's probably seeing equal, if not
more money than I am. In certain landscapes. I know
who they are. If you want me to listen to them,
I can't. But I know who those people are. But
I also know the people who can't touch this and

(35:38):
so and so I'm not I'm not ignorant to that.
I'm not blinded to the fact, but I do believe.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
That are there are there's people that are that that
don't really that maybe conflate.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I will say that they have a conflated idea of
what their value is.

Speaker 5 (36:01):
How much how much onus does the check writer have
in vetting correctly the value of said Mandy Mini means.

Speaker 6 (36:11):
So here's out side.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Let's get it. Let's get into that.

Speaker 6 (36:14):
Don't hold your weight, but they feel like they can manipulate.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
The let's get into it. No, we're gonna run this down.
Let's get out of podcasting. We're gonna start with where
this conversation started. During the w NBA All Star the
players came out and had on the pay us what
you owe shirts. Let me let me tell you how
we're gonna break this down. We're gonna get into the

(36:37):
w n B A From there, I want us to
get into the New York Times article with Joe Budden
and what came out around that, and then we're going
to get into the paramount deal and what's a good
deal bad deal. But we're going to talk about from
this standpoint, the niggas cashing the checks and our views

(36:57):
on what the discrepancy or what the dilemma is or
what the disconnect is between who's right in the checks
and who's catching them. So, if you guys are not aware,
the WNBA players recently made headlines when they wore pay
us with You ost shirts while warming up before the
twenty twenty five All Star Game in Indiana. Now why

(37:18):
they wore the shirts the West players or the WNBA
players union and the league. They are in months long negotiations,
months long negotiations over a new labor deal that is precedented,
on a TV deal that's coming through the pipeline.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Want to get there.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
That is going to mind you, but it's still in
the works. So the players are looking for salary increases
amongst other things including scheduling flexibility and other benefits. For
those of you who may not know, there are players
that are making less than what a manager at foot
locker makes for the year, and it's what causes them

(37:59):
to have to go play overseas to make even more money.
And it's also where if y'all go in. I was
very ignorant in my takes early on about Angel Reese
and her wanting to be a podcaster over a WNBA player.
She has been fucking killing it this season, but also
it's where these players have to go get money from

(38:20):
all these other places as well. It's what we're seeing
also happen with artists. So what we need to know
the WNBA players currently receive nine point three percent of
the league revenue. In comparison, NBA players received nearly fifty percent,
damn of the revenue that's being in now.

Speaker 4 (38:39):
Enough to the agency.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
Period because ages get ten, lawyers get buys, managers get
anywhere from ten to twenty.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Rightfully, so isn't that because WNBA is a newer So so.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Here's the thing too with the WNBA, Yes and no,
the WNBA is pretty much held up as is a
sub entity of the n b A. So because the
NBA makes as much money as they make, there's arguments
that these w n b A players can get paid
because of course they have the money. However, as an entrepreneur,

(39:15):
let's get into it. This is a subsidiary of the
w of the n b A, and the w n
b A has been in the red is still in
the red. It's still not even though we have all
of the new eyes, these these big players, and we
see a surgeon's happening right now of people even having
interest in women's basketball. You ready, here's my comparison. Here's

(39:40):
my comparison, and y'all may not like my comparison, but
this is where in my mind.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
You at least invest in it.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Read this is what the w n b A players
look like to me before we play a clip, and
I want their opinions on on Kelsey Plump, Katie Plump.
It's k Plum. It's Kelsey Kelsey, right, I know it's
a white girl name. AnyWho, this is my comparison to
the past with you us and y'all are going to
kill me for this, but it's okay. It is the

(40:14):
same as a new podcast coming out and one of
the clips going viral. Okay, as a podcaster, you can't
go to a network and say, but this clip went viral,
pay me the money because look at all the views
and impressions on this clip. When as a podcast you

(40:37):
don't have enough views for me as a company to
pay in and see a return on investment those views,
those clips, the outfit, the outfits coming down the tunnel,
all of the content that we're seeing around the w
NBA and the presence of it being where it's at
does not give an ROI on what's happening until this

(41:00):
is made, and then before we play the clip, you
also have to realize they have to get out the hole.
So y'all now asking for money before we're out the
whole is going to further leave this league in the
hole to where now future w n b A players
they never get to see the money because now they're
constantly trying to climb themselves out of a hole.

Speaker 4 (41:21):
Yeah, ok, yes, I agree. However, however we love it. However, however, yes,
your example is valid. Let's pivot it just a little bit.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Let's pivot it.

Speaker 4 (41:38):
The n b A is the first child. The w
n b A is a second child, okay you which.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Is now the Gatorade League.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
By the way, Yes, so they get more money. The
league gets more money than w n b A players. Yes, yeah,
the Big Three now.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
The Big Three. I don't think it's making you think
the Big three is making more?

Speaker 4 (42:01):
I don't know yet.

Speaker 6 (42:02):
But so now now is the advocacy issue.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
So that's that's that's you're treating the w n b
A as the redheaded step child. You never invested in
it to begin with, because you did it as a
quota to please people.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
To not seem as sexist, because clearly y'all wasn't letting women,
wasn't it right?

Speaker 4 (42:24):
So you weren't. It was just the side hobby. It
was a tax right off for you.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
The NBA. This is a we're looking at the door
or she's referring to me as the parent. These are
the children. But yes, in terms of a company structure, yes,
the w n B as.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
They were huge, probably a huge tax right off. So
now that the times have changed and women's rights and
advocacy and everything else, and they're like, yo, why can't
we're We're just as good, if not better. Even the
OG basketball player said, Yo, my mom's what's his name?
Oh my god, I can't think of the players?

Speaker 1 (43:03):
No, because I know his mom was mom was?

Speaker 4 (43:08):
They both got gold medals, right, like you never invested
in them to begin with. Yeah, So yes, I.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Completely and I'm not matter at that. By the way,
the new TV deal that's supposed to be starting in
twenty twenty six, the inca's not dry yet though, And
that's my other thing. Is an eleven year, two point
two billion dollar deal.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Damn. So some money some money coming.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
There's some money coming.

Speaker 5 (43:30):
So they're projecting that this product is only going to
grow bigger and better.

Speaker 6 (43:34):
That's what I would think. I go back to to
the age of it.

Speaker 5 (43:37):
I think I think we'll start to see lucrative contracts.

Speaker 6 (43:41):
As we get more Caitlin's, as we get.

Speaker 4 (43:44):
More more pointing to it now as before nobody was
really talking about it. Female college basketball and that, and
now it's a thing so here.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
That's why they went to Bread now that I get that,
because because you have to think about it too, these
players still have to go overseas. So the risk right
now of them getting injured and maybe not even ever
being able to see this money is a higher risk
because they have to play year round, which we see
most most athletes don't have to do.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
Let's be very clear, looking their shelf life is a
lot shorter than males.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
And I'm not sure if there's been a deep dive
done to this in terms of By the way, this
is not a sports podcast, but I want you to
see how much I kind of be in this thing.
So if we look at the amount of ACL tears
that took place this year, even in the in the NBA, right,
it's coming right off of an Olympics run. It's coming
right off of where the NBA is expanding into the

(44:42):
overseas markets where every year I get to go to
Abu Dhabi. So to me, it's a it's a listen,
but it's a look on And I hate that it
took place to him during the finals. But at Jason
Tatum he did. He went all the way to the
finals one year one win again or I don't know
if they won last year now year before won. The

(45:02):
year before he went from the finals, won the Ring
Celtics win. He goes from there to the Olympics, he
goes from there to abib Is preseason, he goes from
there back to regular season and then they go all
the way through the playoffs again just for him to
end up tearing his A c L in the playoffs.

(45:22):
But there's a mix of your body, right, Achilles say
a cl.

Speaker 9 (45:29):
N L.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
A goddamn doctors.

Speaker 6 (45:36):
Got a significant injury.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
It's a significant injury. But we saw that it took
place to five other players that are prominent players within
the league that probably throughout are going to where they're going,
don't He's a podcast.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
When he did the Olympics and then he did the
Knicks playoffs regular season, could the like that's.

Speaker 9 (46:00):
Still that's still an exception to the rules.

Speaker 2 (46:07):
I think it's not going sports and.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Well, well, this is where I want to take it
a little bit away from because we're talking about well,
it's what you negotiated, it's what you're owed. A King
likes to call Drake Lobbry Graham because.

Speaker 6 (46:22):
He's now I don't I got that from Twitter chatter.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
Well, I want to play a clip because we we
went from w n B A. I want to talk
about NBA players because you would think that an NBA
player with the amount of money that they're seeing this
year would have no quorums or reason to complain about
pay right. I have a clip that I want to
play and I would love y'all takes on Steph Curry

(46:54):
and what he recently had to say on an interview
with Speedy Mormon. Can we get that clip up to
play front? Don't do that? Yeah, I don't like here
we go. I think you guys are underpaid.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
I think because the way the CBA is structured right now,
we can't participate in equity. And that's a big deal
because you know, it is a partnership with ownership. It's
a partnership with the league, and we're on the short
term of that revenue, right, Like those numbers sound crazy,
but what the league is doing from whatever whatever area

(47:40):
you want to compare it to to now is probably
you know ten XTA. So like, uh, the idea that
we can't participate in equity while we're playing is a
part of why I would say, yes, we are underpaid,
because you want to be able to participate in that
and that rise.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Now real quick. I want to give y'all because I
love that I have Jason as a producer here. He
put up some stats and then I want to take
year comments on it because this is essentially what we're
seeing with the lawsuit against UMG as well. Why there's
this issue between Drake and Ung. This is being expressed.
So Steph Curry believes he's underpaid, and the reason is

(48:19):
because the team was recently purchased for four hundred and
fifty million dollars. It was originally purchased for four hundred
and fifty million the last time it was sold. The
value of the Golden State Warriors is now nine billion dollars.
Since Steph Curry and all the rings for sure, and
all the things right now. Economists have long suggested that

(48:42):
Lebron has been underpaid his entire career. Lebron, who is
a billionaire by the way, in twenty fourteen, when he
was capped at a max of twenty million dollars a year,
calculations suggested that he should have been making fifty three
million dollars a year. Now that he's making fifty a
million year, the revenue he generated for the Lakers or

(49:02):
the Cleveland Cavaliers or the Miami Heat studies show in
an open market that he should have and would have
in a profit sharing model been making seventy five to
one hundred million a year. And this is where we
get into again y'all's faces in the video. I hope
we can have zoom in because off y'all, because you're

(49:23):
the thing like as y'all were hearing step Curry say
that he's been underpaid, or economists arguing that Lebron James
has been underpaid. I get it when we're talking about
athletes making eighty thousand dollars a year, but for multimillionaires
to be saying it, or for people to be arguing
that a billionaire is underpaid both of y'all's faces. I

(49:45):
want to know y'alls thoughts on what y'all just heard.
And if you believe that we should then also as
employees be taking or asking for equity stakes and companies.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Yes, but the negotiation to stop this, Oh, study ship
what nigga studies?

Speaker 6 (50:05):
Niggas are the.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
Only people that are mad after the fact of what
they already agree to.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
No, I think white people are too. Maybe we just
don't talk to enough of that.

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Anybody that does that to me don't understand business. If
you're that concerned about being underpaid, start another league, go
somewhere and do it all over.

Speaker 9 (50:21):
But by the way, side of context was because this
is what was happening on Twitter with it, Speedy asked him.

Speaker 6 (50:27):
He didn't, he didn't just come out.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
No, I'm not cooking on Steph. What I'm saying is,
I know majority black people. If I if we're in
the in line for to go get a play of food,
I get a play of food. I get I tell
them how much they gonnacoop or I let them scoop
and don't say anything.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
I walk around, sit at the table.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
I see the other nigga get double mac Oh, I
hate niggas like that.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
That that's the most stupid, like.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
You, someone that would be mad at the person.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
You cannot That's a bad trait. That's a really bad
trait in business to me. And now I get it
when when the increase happens. Now, yes, Steph Lebron, they're
a huge like Caitlyn Clark, you got angel rees because
if you want to say, pay me what you owe us. Besides,
like the girls that are more skilled than them and
put in the work, we get that they deserve a
high pay later too. But them two girls created the

(51:22):
crazy rivalry, the swag, the social media presence, so they
might deserve the bigger check. To me, if I agree
to something in business, your leverage comes from this. Once
that term is over. Now, when I come back to renegotiate,
I have two choices. I'm gonna go and demand what
I know that you owe me, or I'm gonna go
somewhere else what you probably won't do because you because
you don't want to put in that work of the

(51:42):
people who started that business and went in the red.
Because when shit's in the red, y'all never did y'all
never there. If a company right now will say the
w NBA goes, we owe two billion dollars. I bet
you none of those skillful dass players will go, oh,
I'll pitch in fifty with you to get us back
into the green and earn. It's always when our best
it pays off. Now it's like, oh, but but I

(52:03):
should be well, yeah, now that that person that's running
this company should doesn't have to be like, you know what,
I just made a seventy percent increase. I'm gonna bust
down half of this to everybody that I feel like
is a part and is with this, and that that's.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Gonna make them come back the second term.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Well, which is why they have a which is why
the NBA has a players Association. I'm not sure if
the w NBA does, but I'm.

Speaker 9 (52:29):
Actually they do to the TV deal while they're doing it.

Speaker 5 (52:34):
Union, well, it's part of the CBA. It's part of
the collective bargaining agreement. I think what Steph is saying
when you measure what they've been getting as it's to
the earnings, not that they can't do nothing past what
the collective bargaining agreement allows them to, so even if
they want it, even Lebronson, I want eighty million. It's
not even logical for the Lakers to give him eighty
million when they have other players to pay under the

(52:55):
collective Bargain agreement. However, still it's good to measure. Say, man,
look what I've done for the league. Can I I was.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Gonna say, I was gonna say, that's what I really
liked about what Side also just said. If we think
about even let's dumb this down. I know we're talking
about millionaires in w n b A and NBA and
all those things. If we take it to a company
a job, say even as a Walmart or any of
the companies recently that we saw go out of business, right,
would an employee offer to say, yo, I really want

(53:29):
to see this company thrive, all pitching or take less
to get y'all out the green because I believe this
company will grow. I like what you just said to
where As employees, we're not making sure the bottom line
is met. At a lot of the companies or institutions
that we're working for.

Speaker 2 (53:46):
We're not not even buying supplies. Cut the ship. We
got to stop.

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Bro Ey, I said, give me a laptop. Oh wait,
I got, I got how much money over a staples.
I'm not buying my marks sifling.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
This but but that, but that goes into my part
about we got to stop the color bullshit and where
man where many was right and y'all all right, is
companies now, even in music, even in film whatever that
what they know. What they do is they go this person,
this brand, and these are their numbers.

Speaker 6 (54:17):
You're right, they are doing that.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
But where I feel like, okay, if that standard for
those high numbers, say somebody's making a million dollars.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Right, and you go, what the next person should make
a million?

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Well, that's not all equal to me as well too,
because I might see, Okay, this new artist in this
last year is generating a million dollars, right, and then
this other person is generating a million, but you're new.
But if I see somebody like me who've been out,
like k Camp for instance, he's been out. I was
just talking to him about this. K Camp has been
generating money for over a decade. So just because y'all going, oh,

(54:46):
the number, it's not the same because his legwork is different.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
So then based off of quality of work, then.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
Now that's the part.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
That's the part they don't give a fuck about about quality.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
That goes back to standard though.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Okay, yeah, but the corporations don't care about quality.

Speaker 4 (55:04):
But if that's what you're asking for of an employee,
I gotta feel like you're investing in me enough to
want to invest back in you. It needs to be reciprocal,
and it is not.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
But also what I heard you say too, is you
mentioned the Angel Reces, you mentioned the Caitlin Clarks that
we know are are really the boom of this of
the w NBA right now, right.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Speaking from average consumer?

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Yeah, right, as an average consumer, are you saying give them raises,
give them bonuses? But the other girls who aren't really
as No.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
I ain't saying give nobody nothing. I'm not in the business,
but I will say this, and I'm saying this.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
For my business.

Speaker 4 (55:42):
But you ain't in a chest no no, no, no, no
no no.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
My eye is just on the culture. I ain't nobody business.
I'm in the culture.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
But talk about culture. We're talking about business.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
No, no, now, now we're talking about the culture. Yeah, they're
making any money.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
I don't know who making what, But I will say this,
I'm speaking from an average consumer, not an entrepreneur.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
Here, I ain't give a fuck about the w NBA
at all.

Speaker 3 (56:00):
You know, the first game I actually planned to watch
from females, it was when it was when Caitlyn Clark
and Angel Reese was beefing and she went like this,
but that was even.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
A college game.

Speaker 6 (56:11):
That was a college.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I'm trying to tell you the culture shifted when they
really made it popular when that game happened and they
started bashing Angel for doing what Caitlyn already did.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
And saying she wasn't she wasn't sportsman like.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Right then they met and she kicked ass in the
championship and she won that ring. That's when the whole
world was like, hold up, this ship's lit for real.
These little girls can hoop. I'm talking about the people
that weren't watching them now I'm like hold on, I'm
like hold on, Caitlyn and uh and Angel about to play.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
I'm tuning in now. That transferred over to the did.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
You said that too? Because when we talk about culture
shifts and things that we're seeing right before our eyes,
it's why, starting even from a college game, it's why
the NIL is now paying these college players what they
believe they've been worth. This whole time, the money that
goes back into these you know, diversities, the money that's
made off of the Jersey sales. We see celebrities now

(57:04):
going wherever Deon Sanders is. And we've seen him get
Mississippi U Mississippi State, right, he went for Mississippi State,
Jackson State. He went from Jackson State. Now he's in
Boulder in Colorado, and we're seeing the influx of even
what monetary up tick he's having in these college institutions.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
Sacrifice one fault. He fought for those younger people to
come up and gain. Yeah, we do understand that, but
but let's always be clear of this. We're in America
just just and I don't want to get too deeper.
While we was freed out to get from slavery and then,
but it was really a financial gain, not really what
was right and wrong. Right, I'm gonna say this, those
white people whoever in control of this, only decided to

(57:46):
finally start doing that when they figured out a way
for them to still make more than the athletes that
they're paying. Anyway, that's the only reason shit get shifted
like that. It's because the.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Owners were able to still find a way to make
more money than what.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
If you see a young kid now getting If you
see a young kid getting a million dollars, there's a
white dude at the end of that hallway making a
hundred million dollars. Whatever fluctuates to that deal happened. I
guarantee that's the.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Only way to relate the slavery. I'm not what I
because because I'm making the own rules.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
What I'm saying, it's like the Step.

Speaker 9 (58:15):
Yeah, step, it's capped like Step, the capped Stepp's value.

Speaker 3 (58:19):
Ye say, I'm okay, y'all complaining about this. Let me
figure out a way to make them happy. But at
the end of this, okay, we'll give him honey, they were.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Happy, you know, I because they signed that something in
that deal. On this ha.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
You nothing without making nothing, You're you're trying to get paid.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
I guess that's what even the conversations.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Are Captain ring investor or like fakes.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Salary, No, no, no, oh my god, you gotta be specific
on Well, then I do want to know, because we're
talking about there's a way for people to make money.

Speaker 9 (58:56):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Joe Budden recently made headlines his New York Times article
Mind you. This came after a leak of a screen
shot where the screenshots showed that he was making an
excess of nine hundred thousand dollars a month on patre Hu.

Speaker 6 (59:16):
Say the timeline you said, I'm not here, he posted it.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Do you want to know my personal thoughts on this
in terms of how narcissists UH move about in our
day Today live. I think Joe is a brilliant podcaster.
I like Joe. I have a love hate relationship with him.
I wish I hated him more, but I don't. I

(59:41):
think that he is great as a content creator. Might
not ever do business with him again? Possibly we just
we didn't. We don't see business the same way, and
I don't think I would work with Ian again if
me and Ian could get on the same page, which
let's be very clear, towards the end of my deal,
I didn't talk to Joe. I spoke to Ian, so

(01:00:03):
there maybe he learned some things. I don't know, but
it's possible.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Drum. I'm just asking.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
That's fine in terms to before we break down our
thoughts on this article and where it stands. The reason
why I do also believe it was leaked and because
a king you brought up timing. Maybe a week or
two prior to that screenshot being leaked, there was a
list that was dropped with all of the streamers and

(01:00:30):
content creators and the money that they make. And I
think that as a narcissist, there was something in his
soul that was mad that he was not a part
of this conversation. So you have the Kai Sanats, you
have the Mister Beasts, you have the Drew Skis, you
have people who he considers his peers as well. Let's
be very clear, him and drewski are right next to

(01:00:52):
each other on the Prize Picks commercials, and so you
have all of these creators who are making these tens, twenties, thirties,
one hundred million a year some and his name isn't mentioned.
So he said, you.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Know what I'm gonna show you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
Y'all motherfuckers ain't putting no respect on my name. I'm
that motherfucker. He leaked that because even if you just
do the math right, this isn't counting any of his
prize pects, money, endorsements, or anything else. Nigga. We know
that Nigga makes about twelve million a year just off
a Patreon. We also know this episode is brought to

(01:01:27):
you by Prize Day's paying over here. But what I'm
saying is you have twelve million dollars now accounted for
probably another seven eight figure deal with this. He's like,
y'all gonna put some motherfucking respect on my name because
I built this shit from the ground up. Now the
show is the Joe, but the podcast, he built that
shit from the ground up. I've been a fan since

(01:01:48):
it was will name this podcast later. I've seen Joe
on streams with fucking Tahiri. I've seen him on the
internet since Twitter became a thing. Joe is in our space.
I know you we talked about the Combat Jack show
with podcasting. I know a lot of people like to
give credit to as well to tex Stone and other
pioneers of this. Joe. I can't take it from him.

(01:02:11):
This nigga been trying to find a way. Joe is
he Joe Is he?

Speaker 6 (01:02:16):
No?

Speaker 9 (01:02:16):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:02:17):
Maybe fifteen I think he.

Speaker 5 (01:02:19):
I mean posts, well, he probably was doing this rapping
at the same time he was on radio radio and
then he had a Joe Budden TV he did, he
did the ship with show he's been doing.

Speaker 6 (01:02:33):
Yeah, he's definitely he created the leverage.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
The money he makes.

Speaker 6 (01:02:37):
Yes, he earned it, earned it without a doubt, without
a doubt.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Here was which I think was a little bit too
much information to be going into a New York Times article,
But somehow someone decided to share that. With the twenty
million dollars that he is estimated to make in twenty
twenty five, he pays his elective hosts about one point

(01:03:03):
five million dollars in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Salary fall in total.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Yeah, so that includes ice Parks, Ish Mel how many
flip Flip THEMANI and Mark so seven. I don't have
to be a different pool park. Well, Parks gets probably
an engineer pay, but there's probably an addition that's throat

(01:03:26):
in his talent. And then you do have pot wives.
I don't think everyone is making six figures, yes, solid right.
Wrong with that, right, folks. Wrong with that is when
you see that you're part of a product that's bringing
in twenty million. Yeah, step Steph Curry Lebron and now
you and now you have these these people who sit

(01:03:50):
next to you and do technically the same job as
you and are earning a significant amount less. Well, no again,
I guess that's where we go into. So then what
are your thoughts on this, because the Internet said, what
was the Jason overall? What was the Internet's response to
finding out this money? I think it was split.

Speaker 9 (01:04:12):
The positive side of congratulations, yes, the negative side is
I can't believe people pay for this when I could
just go to the barbershop and watch this.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
But somebody and then there was the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
And then there's more idiots.

Speaker 6 (01:04:27):
But that's but you're not a real nigga.

Speaker 2 (01:04:30):
You don't give them what you're making. Shut the fuck up.

Speaker 4 (01:04:32):
But it's not about giving him what they made. So
from a business standpoint, he is a brand. He is
an entity. Yes, him, the pot the Joe Button podcast
a brand.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Don't put off better cooks off.

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
She got to pay. He gotta cover all the expenses,
the expenses, the waterfront. What was that million?

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
They did talk about the but he pays he bought it.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
He bought it, bought it. But it's in that is
equity within the podcast. You got to pay the.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
Other the other. And it does say he has about
a team of thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:05:13):
People, right, so you got to pay all of them.
And after you paid, after you have a certain amount
of employees, you've got to give them health insurance, benefits like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:21):
No, no, no, no, no, no, no no, they're independent contractors.

Speaker 4 (01:05:27):
Ah, so that's how you got around that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
He got around having to pay for health care. There's
a lot of complaints about that too, because they're working
some of them, probably majority of them full time hours.
But when you agree to be an independent contractor, you
also can't complain that you got to pay for health
care and now you also have to be responsible for
your own taxes. So yeah, no, this is not set
up as a W two type of contract. This is well,

(01:05:53):
he's the he's the business owner. Okay, go ahead side.

Speaker 4 (01:05:57):
What are you Okay, he got independent contractors. Yeah, so
that's how you get around the taxes and everything for that.
So are your talent now considered independent contractor?

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
They are too, they are also independent contractor. You don't
like that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:14):
Union, huh, it's not that it needs to be the
charge if we are there together as a brand. Yes,
I think you should pay them a little bit more
more or benefits. That's something that's what you want.

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
That's what you negotiate. Okay, Okay, we'll not the fine.

Speaker 6 (01:06:39):
Have a problem. I have a huge talking from a.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Standpoint, okay, which they are on video weekly, So there's
a I ain't gonna lie. Males should at least be
asking for wardrobe, hair and makeup, but.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
Are not getting that either.

Speaker 6 (01:06:58):
I don't think she's getting that out.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
My this episode game, My tea sucks.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
I think she should at least be asking for that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
But back to a wardrobe show, back to a television
show standard, because again, not that if you're doing podcasts,
there's a whole there's new contracts and stuff with it.
But if you're if you're doing this purely as independent
contractors or whatnot, of course they're not going to get
the W two like you said. But when a show structure,
you have to pay them all of those things and

(01:07:26):
more because it's it's part of the show. It's part
of the deal. If that is your cast, then you
need to pay your cast.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
So I do like we are all in agreement. Let
me make sure we are all in agreement that Joe
deserves and is owed his twenty million plus years. We
are not on the same but we're saying, but we're
not on this. I agree. No, he's worth every cent. No, no,
he's worth every cent. And he did I think that

(01:07:56):
he gonna see a hundred mil before it's all over.
I think he's he's otis absolutely, However, we are saying
that his cast should be negotiating for more. By the way,
real quick, for anyone listening, this is a study by Riverside,
and I want y'all to know too what podcasters are
making out here. So as a rough estimate, the average

(01:08:17):
podcaster will only make between Now this is a wide
range because it depends on if it's a mid roll,
all the things, how many times it's in there. Yeah,
three hundred to five thousand an episode, and that's with
getting about ten thousand views.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
I like that statu right, deo, Now that's a healthy
stat mind you.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
We also just saw, and I'm not sure if y'all saw,
Joej's posted his Patreon had three thirty seven point five
million impressions in the last thirty days. So if we're
even looking at just numbers and gambits, he's making the
money because he's getting the numbers. And so for me,
I think, and you said, well they're making six figures,
that's a good enough thing. What made you say that?

(01:08:56):
Do you think that? Because she clearly thinks they should
be negotiating for a little bit more. But what are
your thoughts on knowing that he's making twenty million and
he's paying seven people.

Speaker 4 (01:09:06):
They add value to the brand.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
I ain't say they didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:09:11):
I'm gonna keep it butt.

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
You could have told me they was making fifty I wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
I don't give a fuck because bro, show me show
me a I don't care, and yes, they bring value.
I don't care if it was a nigga on there
saying I'm doing this just for exposure.

Speaker 1 (01:09:27):
Cool, All, okay, do you care about.

Speaker 2 (01:09:32):
Good, good fucking questions? I like you, though, Do you
care about I care about great business? Period? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
Show me a motherfucker on this earth that goes to
interview at a job and in the middle of that
interview they go hold on real quick before you hire me,
and don't hire me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
How much is your CEO making?

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
Show me one motherfucking person that ever did it at
an interview, black, white or alien.

Speaker 2 (01:09:56):
We gotta what did the internet thing? Of course we
know what the internet thought, bro, or.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
You making this your people should be No, you only
gonna make what you earn. Then you can negotiate and
have leverage for it. We're gonna keep on saying this,
and every we gotta stop. Let's repeat that, so these
niggas understand and hold on, hold on, g Not one
of you niggas that ain't putting none of this work,
Joe or Me or Mandy or Gig, anybody in this
room put in. Have ever went to an interview and

(01:10:22):
did that, y'all. Don't do this ship the Starbucks, y'all.
Don't do this ship the McDonald You stripper holes. Don't
even do that ship at your motherfucking clubs. Y'all. Name
me a slipper at Magic City that knows what the
owner makes at the motherfucking Magic City.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
They don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:38):
You can't ask me that girl, Get your ass something
and pop that pussy and make your bag shut the
fuck up. I just told my keep show me and
show me any of you niggas on earth that have
made anybody one hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
You niggas ain't making nobody no money.

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Y'all disagree, they're making moneybody being a part of the brand.

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
I'm saying, not them. I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:11:04):
The people complaining about that factory haven't put nobody on.
Y'all have never made a nigga ten thousand dollars. When
do you ever put your own nigga on a ten
thousand dollars play to complain about what another nigga paying
another nigga. Okay, so I don't like Yeah, wrong?

Speaker 6 (01:11:20):
That give me a deep Swedish what's the shirt saying? Yes,
black men need the No, we need meditation.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
No, we need a fucking class on business.

Speaker 6 (01:11:29):
Yes we need you.

Speaker 4 (01:11:32):
We're gonna say something to you negating that. But you
know your value perfect? If you know your value perfect example,
I'll give you some white people to look at the
cast of Friends.

Speaker 2 (01:11:45):
Here we got shout the phoebe ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
A million dollars an episode because they knew their value
and what they brought to.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
The net and white. But go ahead, if I.

Speaker 4 (01:11:57):
Said, I'm giving you just an example, Yeah, how's that
an example that I'm why don't white crime as business?

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
Was that you sing about the first season they share
fucking not because they aren't there? Fucking level came back
and they.

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
Got to calm down.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Period.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
There's wrong. There's nothing wrong with being passionate, but I'm
trying to have a conversation with you.

Speaker 1 (01:12:21):
Come on, no, no, no, okay, go ahead, go ahead, Okay,
when Friends negotiated for the million dollar episode, of course
it was I'm not talking about the first episode.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
I'm not talking about the three seasons, talk about after
they got everything, and I'm given that the same example
for the people who are on Joe but podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
They they've been there that time, they've been time they've been.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
But she's talking about after No, after.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
The first season. It's after the first season. They've definitely
been there for some time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
So so has nobody gotten raised on Joe? We don't.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Yeah, I'm asking the question, has anybody gotten paid more
from the first season to now?

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
But yeah, we told them.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
They often talk about their contract negotiations on air, so yes,
they've constantly negotiated their contracts. So I will say I
agree with g on this where yes, over time, if
you believe your value to be something, you need to
sit down in those rooms, whether you're across from a
Joe and Ian or the executives at Paramount or CBS
or wherever your air is, and you negotiate your worth

(01:13:20):
and guess what you will get paid. Not only would
sometimes you think you're old, but what someone Essentially, your
your pay is always determined on what someone will pay
you and what you negotiate.

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
And they went in collective collectively, Yes, the same people,
the friends did it, the cast, the Big Bang Theory
did it. There are several people who have done that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
They know, like they went together in the meeting, all
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
And so where we were talking to Yeah, but where
and that's where we were talking about white unions and
we need to get back to.

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Period hold very much.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
So she just brought it to bind you. You've been
saying what she just said just a little bit more
eloquently that yes, if we're gonna keep bringing up color
and race and how we navigate business, her showing that
these white people all collectively went to these other white
people and pretty much made sure that they were given

(01:14:15):
what they're saying, what they're owed. So from her questioning
around what's happening over at the JVP, essentially what she's
saying is if they collectively think that their their value
is more and they should be paid more, collectively is
a unit of seven, they all need to go in
and negotiate a raise. It shouldn't just be the staggering
of contracts as to whenever one is up and one

(01:14:38):
is that is.

Speaker 4 (01:14:39):
Easier because it puts the pressure back on this.

Speaker 1 (01:14:42):
Because he can't get rid of all seven niggs. He
can get rid of one or two, and you could.

Speaker 4 (01:14:46):
Value the whole the reason why people are investing you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
Yeah, I like that, but it's why. Also we saw
a person like what and there's value in education and
knowing that this is a possibility, right because we saw
this happen with Chamellionaire. So Chamellionaire was able to buy
back his his his money, his master's but only because
he went in. They didn't want to let him out

(01:15:12):
of his deal. They didn't want to pay him the
money because they said that you still owe us. Actually
we don't want to pay you what you think you're worth.
He said, as a matter of fact, say Less had
an auditor come in audit some shit got paid off,
and then he said, guess what, not only do you
hold on, not only do you owe me my knowledge?
Lets me know that I'm valuable in the knowledge I have,

(01:15:32):
and it's so valuable and something that will dismantle what
you got going on that if I go teach other motherfuckers.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
That this is what they need to do, which is
why he's so black balled.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Now right, Well, it lets you very clear he's blackballed because,
as you're saying, information is important.

Speaker 2 (01:15:47):
And they don't want here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
As an individualistic goddamn society and how we're set up too.
He was like, pay me back my shit or else.
He got what he was owed and kept all of
that information to himself, which is why now not only
maybe he's blackballed from whatever agency, was that information about
how he got his ship and he ain't. He ain't

(01:16:12):
out here sharing that information because he got his money.

Speaker 4 (01:16:15):
And Randy, you could have lit the whole script. They
say very thing that you was gabbing about earlier to day.
Niggas don't teach other niggas how to put on game.
That is a perfect example. Put nobody on game.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
He got his money he did though, No, he did.
He went on the interviews and said he ordered it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Yeah, but he didn't tell people that.

Speaker 9 (01:16:34):
That's not being public about it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:38):
I thought he went public and said, go make sure
you can afford the order. Yeah, but he made me
he didn't. Yeah, but cool, that's because you know he didn't, not.

Speaker 4 (01:16:46):
To the degree that she was gabbing about earlier. If
people need to understand.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
He didn't really put you on game because cool, go
get an orderedor nigga, I was an accountant. What what then?

Speaker 4 (01:16:56):
What what that need to look for?

Speaker 2 (01:16:58):
Well, well, that's the job of an auditor.

Speaker 3 (01:17:01):
The auditor goes and finds out what the company either
stole or did not pay out. So either there's only
two ways the orderer can go colet they either found
out that that company made a mistake allegedly and then
they go find out and go, well, you actually didn't
pay this out right, maybe you type this one in
wrong or two you're actually you actually are stealing.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
But imagine, but also imagine the rabbit hole of the team.
We also talked about people have agents, lawyers, managers, So
imagine now you having to go through No, she had
the three people, So you just hiring an auditor, you
have three other people that technically will also all need
to be audited because she is sitting here at the

(01:17:38):
beckon of this team. It's what we just see. What
athlete just came out and said that they're oh I
think it was actually I saw an interview with Michael Beasley.
He talked about how his CPA, his accountant, was so
many millions, and so when you talk about auditing audit,
you can't just run to a label and audit. There's

(01:17:58):
a list of people, whatever channels the millionaire was able
to go through. However, he did it to where he
literally got somebody got. He ain't shared that whole timeline.
And I do want to be before we got out
of here, because we have to get into it because
when we talk about deals consequences, good deals, bad deals,
the president is currently involved in some shit where he's

(01:18:22):
canceling shows, he's telling people what they can and cannot do.
So I wanted to talk about TV deals from a
paramount perspective. But also, baby, this is why you here.
Now there's been a recent clip. Do we have the
clip to player no of Drake Bell? Okay, well I
have the quote here.

Speaker 6 (01:18:42):
I just the quote here.

Speaker 1 (01:18:43):
Okay. So Drake Bell, who was also on Nickelodeon, recently
spoke about residuals and spoke about this not what are those?
He said, It's not a thing for him. He signed
almost as an employee. He got a salary, and his
deal did not include residuals. Residuals, for those of you

(01:19:04):
who do not know, is why we hear so many
of our old television stars still getting checks to this
day because they were on linear television. Now, in terms
of this, a lot of these linear cable networks either
were merged are all a part of now these entities
that are streaming. So he said, the perception of the

(01:19:25):
world has always been this way. Oh, you made a
Folger's coffee commercial. You must live in a mansion in Hollywood.
I saw you on TV. You're rich. He said this
on the Unplanned podcast, he said, and that's far from
the case, which is the bummer for most of us
on Nickelodeon. We don't get residuals for our shows. Now.
Residuals are how most people in TV, writers, actors all

(01:19:48):
get paid basically every time the show airs, every time
a song gets played on the radio, if we turn
it into music, right, they's guaranteed for a check to
come in the mail. Well, that's not happening.

Speaker 4 (01:20:00):
For a very long time now, is it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:05):
Because it's an outdated thing that we're seeing that streaming
is new and so your lawyer didn't know to bake
it into the contract. What Because that's what we're seeing
with the timeline between artists with physical copies and streams. Right,
the deals look different now, is it? Because as a
child start being in the early two thousands that streaming

(01:20:26):
wasn't even considered in the deals.

Speaker 4 (01:20:28):
What is what's happening?

Speaker 6 (01:20:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
So if we go back to the early two thousands
or like mid two thousands, first writer strike happened? Writer
strike yep, Okay, they went.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
That well because every a certain amount of time there's a.

Speaker 4 (01:20:44):
Renegotiations, negotiations or union contract.

Speaker 1 (01:20:48):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
So when a lot of those kids shows, it was
actually two different unions. There was aftra yes and SAG.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
Okay, SAG is now SAG.

Speaker 4 (01:21:00):
They merged together. So a lot of those shows contracts
her underneath aftra.

Speaker 5 (01:21:10):
Hm.

Speaker 4 (01:21:11):
Pretty much every child stars show, kids show programming, whatever
is underneath afterra meaning you do not get residuals oh.
Raven was the only child show or children's television that
was SAG.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
How do yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:21:31):
Because she had belverage oh.

Speaker 2 (01:21:35):
And she earned that from where she was.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
She was before she's been, she'd been.

Speaker 4 (01:21:44):
In the games that she was three. She had the
wisdom from Bill Cosby because he was the one who
told her make that show SAG.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
Oh. So even though.

Speaker 4 (01:21:59):
Bill was giving out the game to everybody that's.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
We're not taking it there.

Speaker 4 (01:22:08):
Okay, that's a whole When they merge, we started to
get a little bit of residuals, but them checks was
like two three dollars if that. But that that was
the industry standard. So again, yes, when I my first

(01:22:29):
season of all that, I didn't have the quote unquote
leverage to get more money or whatever. Second season all that, yeah,
I got some more money, not as much as I
should have been paid, right, Third season got more money,
worked more.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
But all that, there.

Speaker 4 (01:22:46):
Was nothing in there about streaming because that technology.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
And everything didn't exist, damn.

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
And then those same standards and contracts still grandfathered over
when the both unions merged. In now here we are
on the early two thousand, mid late two thousands, Streaming
taken off, Streaming is taken off. Still again, that is
not in the contract. All of that money Nickelodeon and

(01:23:14):
Disney ah ship so we got absolutely nothing. Well we
still don't get anything. That show will run. I don't
know how many millions of times, how many times you stream,
I'm not getting a dime of that, which was the
whole point of the strike. The second strike with sag

(01:23:34):
with the actors and the writers.

Speaker 1 (01:23:37):
Can I ask you on the back end, knowing that
the nil n C Double A are now paying even
back paying some of the players, are they there are
former players that are now getting paid for what they
did in their contributions.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
As college players.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Yes. So I say that to say they came together
and clearly they were stations and all the things happening.
Is there a conversation at all around what it would
look like for child actors or people to somehow try
to get money this they feel? Oh, now I bring
that up because Monique recently sued what she sued CBS

(01:24:18):
because she came out and said the same thing. She's
no longer getting money off the park and the Parkers
on streaming, bracket Hole, on Amazon Prime, it's everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:24:30):
It's like the new version of syndication or content for
them to put on their you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
Know, streaming. Can she win contract?

Speaker 9 (01:24:43):
They settled to plus the show's creators together, three of us.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Look at them.

Speaker 9 (01:24:47):
They all came together, had separate lawsuits, but they came
and then what they sailed they said it was financial
malfeasings about Powermount and CBS and artificially inflating expenses and surprise,
same profits, and then they ended up settling in both cases.

Speaker 4 (01:25:03):
So I'll even give you the current show since you
guys are bringing up old school shows. Abbot Elementary wasn't
even getting money off of streaming for.

Speaker 1 (01:25:11):
Real, wait what watch?

Speaker 4 (01:25:14):
But that was the whole point of the strike. I
think that's what people are not fully understanding why we
struck in the first place. We're not getting anything from streaming.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
You're just getting a salary.

Speaker 4 (01:25:25):
We're not We're getting whatever it gets done on television,
meaning traditional millson ratings, television.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
Watching, even somebody that has a split on it, like
what if somebody has a percentage in the show beforehand,
you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:25:41):
Like music, but.

Speaker 9 (01:25:45):
The residual system was only working for linear. They were
trying to say, because it's streaming and there's no such
thing as reruns and streaming, there's no residuals.

Speaker 1 (01:25:52):
And so that was like period, yeah, period.

Speaker 4 (01:25:56):
Period claiming, well, we don't know how to count the streams. Yes, yah,
niggas do y'all do for music all the damn time?
You would do that for television. You just don't want to.
And so because a lot of it's streaming because a
lot of the you know, a lot of people dumped
a lot of money into their streaming platforms Disney plus

(01:26:16):
Paramount plus Peacock and a. Now everybody has their own
end of it. They were trying to get into the
streaming rate, not knowing that it was a big money
pit and they had to put a lot of content, right,
and because they didn't have enough of I guess original
content or whatever to keep up with the expensive of
maintaining the streaming platform, they were taking our show, yeah yeah,

(01:26:37):
and throwing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:38):
It on there, which is what we saw Netflix still.

Speaker 4 (01:26:40):
Not getting us anything for it.

Speaker 1 (01:26:43):
Because when Netflix during the pandemic was heavily going into
original content. Netflix is why they kept raising our goddamn
monthly thing. Right, They were in the hole for a
while because they were spending so much probably still yeah,
they spent so much millions on original content. Mind you
paying people like Assandra Bullock when we were watching bird

(01:27:04):
Box paying those are Netflix originals.

Speaker 4 (01:27:07):
So you're paying drawing, You're paying for my name to
drop your streaming platform, to get our eyes and stuff
over there to you. So you gotta pay me what
I would make in a movie setting because that's my
industry stand.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
And so now in order to make up for it,
what they're doing is now dumping these old television shows.
We see Sex and the City now on there, we
see Girlfriends, we see all of these shows popping up
that nostalgia makes us want to rewatch. But they're not getting.

Speaker 4 (01:27:37):
Popular because it's a sense of comfort and nostalgia for them.
So they're playing it and it's getting all all these
money to recoup for them. But you not paying me
the work that I did.

Speaker 3 (01:27:46):
But those people aren't getting paid, like, no, you're not
seeing nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:50):
And the City people.

Speaker 1 (01:27:50):
No, literally, that's that's the right, So I think. So
I think that again when we talk about even being
in a place to negotiate or or fight for what
you're worth in this sense, which is why I wanted

(01:28:11):
to bring up television, there's so many things that are outdated,
and it's making it hard for them to fight. What
you're making now, hundreds of millions of dollars on me,
rerunning my face, my likeness, my everything is and I
know it is. This is why it is. And I
can see the frustration, Like.

Speaker 4 (01:28:28):
Benna, I can't get a regular job anywhere because my
face is playing a thousand times a day. You know
how many people walk up to say I loved you
bring it on and blah blah blah. I watched that
movie two three times. I can't get a regular job
for all. I am also not getting paid for all
those millions of times you've seen me, damn. So I

(01:28:50):
gotta do other shit, rustle three or four times harder
just to get something.

Speaker 1 (01:28:57):
And let's be very clear. When we talk about the
outrage quote unquote of the internet, they love to bring
up someone who quote unquote fell from grace or someone.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
Who's throwing me in the crash out. I don't one
of the most unproblematic child stars you can think of.
I'm about outside like.

Speaker 1 (01:29:20):
No, no, no, outside not because because yeah outside with.

Speaker 4 (01:29:32):
The best way to describe you're.

Speaker 6 (01:29:33):
Gonna have another knee brace, not even on camera, but.

Speaker 9 (01:29:43):
From gymnastics.

Speaker 6 (01:29:44):
Yeah, to take a picture of ship.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Like like it is.

Speaker 4 (01:29:52):
It is a completely up situation, no matter how you
look at it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
And can I also I love that you brought a
the cash the crash out urn because we've brought up
the difference between black and white a lot in this conversation,
right we talked about Monique somewhat being a crash out
when she was demanding what she was owed from uh
Daniel what's his name? The director that she then Netflix

(01:30:23):
with her special. We've seen and almost I've seen the
outrage I may have expressed it myself too of Taraji
when she complains about the money that she's seen. Right. However,
a lot of times they can't do what white people do.
And when I say white people, I do want to
shout out these white people, Matt Stone and Trey Parker.

(01:30:46):
They are the creators of South Park. And this is
where we're going to wrap up, because when we talk
about people that demand what they're owed, right, we have
not had a South Park atisode in two years because
they have been in negotiations with Paramount for what a
season twenty seven and beyond would be worth and what

(01:31:08):
it would be valued at and what it looks like
on streaming, specifically, because Comedy Central. If y'all are aware,
maybe you're not. I love Comedy Central. Over the last year,
maybe two or three years, Adult Swim done, Comedy Central
and everything under the umbrella gone MTV even mind you,

(01:31:30):
they were under the bia Comme umbrella, but MTV is
now fully digital.

Speaker 4 (01:31:35):
They're gone channels.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
Disney Channel, it's gone there now. Disney Plus they own ESPN.
They are something Disney is something completely different, right, and
so for two years the creators of South Park sat
in that motherfucker and negotiated. Now I want to add
something to y'all that y'all may not know, and I
don't even know if it's on here, but I want
to read this. According to Forbes, on July second, after

(01:31:59):
Comedy Central the season twenty seventh premiere of the show,
because Paramount, the network's parent company, was locked in a
contentious negotiation for its streaming rights in the midst of
months long's acquisitions of Paramount by the sky Dance Media,
Parker and Stone issued a statement and said the merger
is a shit show and it's fucking up South Park.

Speaker 8 (01:32:18):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:32:18):
I want to add to this because I don't know
if you saw it. Check this out. It's why Stephen
Colbert just got canceled. There is the government currently trying
to control what media is being put out right, So
not sure if you're familiar or not because you haven't
watched it yet. Trump somehow got involved in the negotiations

(01:32:41):
in this contract.

Speaker 4 (01:32:42):
Which is completely ill, which is unethical.

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
Is fuck? Are you ready? What's in this deal? There
has to be a pro Trump messaging in the episodes
of South Park, and when I tell you hold on,
they Jailee Pantry the most masterful fucking way I've ever
seen it. If you have not yet, please check out

(01:33:06):
episode one, season twenty seven. It is called Woke is
Dead and it talks about literally they have Jesus talking about,
Hey guys, I'm only here because Paramount make me and
oh no, it's great. One episode one, they had it
in the bank. They said, are we gonna sign this deal?

(01:33:26):
They got what is it? A billion dollars? What is it?
One point five billion is what they negotiated to pick
up for what they're getting on streams. Mind you, they
have a blackout screen that says pro Trump messaging one
to fifty. I guess there's supposed to be fifty pro
Trump messages. But bro, they have I don't know if

(01:33:47):
any of you all got into south Park. They used
to have Saddam Hussein in bed with Satan. They now
have Trump ind dating Satan. It is great. They have
Trump with a little penis. They have.

Speaker 4 (01:34:02):
So I heard, it's great. So they were like, you
can't show a penis on TV. They were like, we
put google LEAs on it's character. It's a it's a
little pe b it's.

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
A little peepy, his little peepy talking.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
Which is funny.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Big mouth the character.

Speaker 6 (01:34:19):
I was gonna say, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:34:21):
They turned it like how big Mouth turned ovaries and
tits into and pimples into characters. Because technically, bro, they
turned Donald Trump's penis into a little and support Trump.
They bro it is the greatest thing. I say that
to say.

Speaker 4 (01:34:39):
That is art.

Speaker 1 (01:34:42):
If you don't watch this, mind you it's now on
They're saying, watch it before it gets taken down. But baby,
it's on the internet now. And the way that Elon
and Trump are beefing Trump, I mean, keep that ship
on Twitter.

Speaker 4 (01:34:53):
Okay, on X girls are.

Speaker 1 (01:34:56):
But I say all of that to say, you have
good deals, you have bad deal. If we want to
talk about the way we've talked about Creative Centers.

Speaker 4 (01:35:07):
And Mike uh Coogler, if we want to.

Speaker 1 (01:35:10):
Talk about Ryan Coogler, if we want to talk about
even Reese Witherspoon and what she's been able to do
with what has been able to do these two montherfuckers
right here in a Trump nation where we're scared as
fun about the power that he has. This is a
masterclass at not only holding out and negotiating. Because it

(01:35:30):
took them two years.

Speaker 2 (01:35:31):
These white people don't these are white people, but they holding.

Speaker 4 (01:35:35):
Toe to toe with people black artists that did that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Here we go. Give it to I need, I need
some color people.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
Give it to me.

Speaker 4 (01:35:41):
I think it was Frank Ocean how he negotiated his say.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
And he just had to be gay him.

Speaker 3 (01:35:47):
But go ahead, here we go. I thought you're gonna
give me a strong straight black man.

Speaker 1 (01:35:50):
But sorry, selective ignorance. He's very he's very ignorant.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
He's the he's there's a.

Speaker 6 (01:36:00):
Side, that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:36:01):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
Mind you, mind you. He's not gay. Mind you, he's
not gay. He's my section.

Speaker 6 (01:36:07):
But that's subjective.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
No, I'm sorry. I just wanted to be a straight
black man. Go ahead, ignorant?

Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
Did that?

Speaker 1 (01:36:19):
I got his dog, bro, This is these conversations.

Speaker 2 (01:36:25):
Let you cook, Let you cook.

Speaker 4 (01:36:27):
Be back anytime.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Okay, lead that nigga at home. Geez, they focused. I
love this, Okay, get sun the fun out.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
I love that.

Speaker 6 (01:36:52):
Standing in the corner.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
But cook Cook with the Frank no no no, but that.

Speaker 4 (01:36:58):
That was what I I do believe that is what
he did with his second deal because they were asking
him for two albums, and so instead he did a
video of him doing something on.

Speaker 9 (01:37:11):
The stairs, endless to endless album, endless album.

Speaker 4 (01:37:16):
Was playing it in the background, and that technically was
his other that got him out of exactly hold on
raditional album. Not only him played the.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
Game, well not only him when we talk about playing
the game. It's why they're not counting Andre's flu album
or they're the now clause with these labels around what
an album is, what a mixtape is, and baby, you
need to give me an album can be an EP,
can't be an instrumental like now because of the Frank
Ocean and because of a Andre three thousand and these

(01:37:50):
and these and these artists now trying to find their
way around.

Speaker 6 (01:37:54):
You know, I thinkbellious kind of.

Speaker 9 (01:37:59):
Andre was to be clear, so Frank Oceans it changed.
There was no longer you can no longer do streaming exclusives.
Oh it's a Frank Ocean. And andres the clause with
Andreas is your for to count as part of your album,
count on your contract, your album has to sound seventy
five percent like the previous.

Speaker 6 (01:38:16):
Album from a.

Speaker 5 (01:38:20):
Sound is that because of from from a lyric perspective,
having words on record?

Speaker 6 (01:38:25):
Is that what he's talking about in particular, or just because.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
Nigga Drake gives us, then he gives us.

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
How they get they want they want is.

Speaker 1 (01:38:34):
Jumping because about to do something that's they want to
guarantee that they want to guarantee the investment.

Speaker 9 (01:38:41):
And I would say, I'll take to the point of
this conversation to Beyonce probably has the leverage to make it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
She has the leverage another artist and three.

Speaker 5 (01:38:48):
Thousand and andre three thousand possibly is under the old
contract prior to streaming, which was an issue with Dayla
Soul's not having it right now because because there was
no metrics of how what the conversation would look look like.
That's why a lot of if you look at a
lot of kind of resolved itself now. But if you

(01:39:08):
look at a lot of nineties artists, you would see
some of the songs grade out because of sample issues.

Speaker 6 (01:39:15):
As it relates to streaming.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
In music television, we're all sitting here trying to figure
out how to deal with the streaming, and we had
a conversation on another episode about now also now AI.

Speaker 4 (01:39:37):
Which was the other half of the actor and writer strike.
That's right because because of AI.

Speaker 2 (01:39:43):
AI benefiting there mimicking a lot of the old school
ship too.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
Not only that, the AI companies are taking old scripts
and teaching the AI and learning off of.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
It, and that's copyright.

Speaker 4 (01:39:55):
And you're still not giving the writers there in the
first place.

Speaker 1 (01:39:59):
You can't robbery Howie robbers Well, and yeah, we talked
about it too. Trump is looking orange man. We can
just call him orange man. Fantom Fantom out here, Fanta.

Speaker 4 (01:40:15):
Is out I call him a Harry cheetah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:17):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (01:40:18):
But that ain't his hare.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
I know, you take that thing off at night and
put it on his nights. He said, what a day.
But Fanta is out here trying to deregulate. So there's
gonna be prop and and what sucks is we do
have animation, by the way, just went on strike as well.

Speaker 4 (01:40:38):
So animators, animators and video games have actually been on
strike for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:40:42):
They're still on it there.

Speaker 4 (01:40:43):
They came to a temporary.

Speaker 1 (01:40:45):
Separary agreement to get people to back back working.

Speaker 4 (01:40:48):
But yes, right, but they are still.

Speaker 1 (01:40:51):
And it's because of these things. And it's because of
these things. And though it's hard to justify what's your
own when you have the powers that be that are
coming in deregulating or making clauses, once someone finds a
way to get what they're own, Unfortunately, the pay us
what you owe us still comes from a capitalistic umbrella
where the people at the top want to be able

(01:41:13):
to pay only what they hat to.

Speaker 2 (01:41:15):
I can I say something, Yes, I'm wrapping up.

Speaker 3 (01:41:17):
I'm hearing this as I'm explaining, and also I'm actually
learning some things and hearing some He's real good his
research too.

Speaker 2 (01:41:23):
It sounds like, and this is on both ends.

Speaker 3 (01:41:27):
The what I'm hearing from all the conversations is the
person who's the best at manipulating loopholes seems to be
the beneficiary in all of these deals, right from the
front end or the back end. It's like, you do
gotta find this loopholes and everything. And I say that
in the sense of people going back and did these
lawsuits to stuff that wasn't even in their contract, and

(01:41:48):
they benefited from something They found a loophole in something
that that created some language for them to be like
you know what, you actually can pay me from this,
even though this wasn't in this And I think that's
something that I remember Jaz said a lot. I'm trying
to find andrs and it's like he always spoke about
loopholes and the industry to figure out how to get
to another level or figure out why you do owe
me this, okay, And just like they play that game

(01:42:10):
as well, there's always wording or like the thing you
just broke down from South Park, they're finding ways to
where they can say something or like y'all just call
him Fana and are in Harry cheetoh, which I love
about it. And it's like you're finding a way to
not get text or to make money. And I think
that that's key in every that's another tool in business.
It is that a lot of people don't utilize.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
I will say what I gathered from this conversation as
a whole, especially from what Giovanni said, is at the
end of the day, there's power numbers and power knowledge. Yeah,
and so those are the two things that if we
want to see differences. It's why the writers were forming together. Hey,
we got to say on this trip because we're fighting
for all of us, not just one of us and so,

(01:42:51):
but also in the same breath, finding people to share
the resources, share the knowledge, because the more we know,
the more we're not going to be stuck in the
ignorance of not knowing. And when we know better, we
have to do better. So back to your point, when
you get in a position where you're handing out the contracts,
if you've been the victim of poor ones before, put

(01:43:12):
people on game. And also don't continue the cycle because
back to what Giovanni said too, Unfortunately, there becomes standards
in industry and people don't think they're doing no fucked
up ship when they're going by the standards, when really
those standards still create a predator and a prey. You
have a victim and you have the who's the suspect?

(01:43:35):
There we go the suspect. I don't know. I'm just
trying to Anyways, we gave y'all a hell of a
fucking episode today. Giovanni gonna come back on. But also,
I ain't never been no token. I'm biracial, so I
don't know if we can have a conversation on your podcast.
Well shut up, Actually I'm lying. I've been a token
in Corporate America.

Speaker 6 (01:43:53):
Every other episode.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
I am not that Tolks podcast. I can't wait for
it to air, it come out. Thank you guys so
much for joining me and having this conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:44:09):
Y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:44:10):
Make sure y'all support both of our hosts today and
everything that they're doing, and make sure you tune in
here yet again. This is Selective Ignorance, where curiosity lives,
controversy thrives, and conversations matters. See you next week. Selective
Ignorance a production of the Black Effect podcast Network. For

(01:44:30):
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Speaker 9 (01:44:37):
Thanks for tuning in the Selective Ignorance of Mandy B.
Selective Ignorance. It's executive produced to Buy Mandy B. And
it's a full Court Media studio production with lead producers
Jason Mondriguez.

Speaker 1 (01:44:47):
That's me and Aaron A. King Howell.

Speaker 9 (01:44:49):
Now do us a favor and rate, subscribe, comment and
share wherever you get your favorite podcasts, and be sure
to follow Selective Ignorance on Instagram at Selective Underscore Ignorant.
And of course, if you're not following our hosts man
dy b. Make sure you're following her at Full Court
Pumps Now. If you want the full video experience of
selective ignorance, make sure you subscribe to the Patreon It's

(01:45:10):
patreons dot com backslash selective ignorance

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Ep. 23 | Pay Us What You Owe Us feat. Giovonnie Samuels & Sy Ari

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 23 | Pay Us What You Owe Us feat. Giovonnie Samuels & Sy Ari