December 24, 2025 • 45 mins
Stigall interviews a friend named Paula Romang - a deeply spiritual woman who gave birth to twin boys - one of whom was perfectly healthy while the other struggled for years. And then, the worst happened. But Paula’s perspective as a Christian turned into a testimony anyone struggling with grief needs to read In her new book “Thriving in the Barren Place: How Trust in God Fueled My Journey Through Heartache and Loss.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's bring up Christ to Golf.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is Chris to God Risk Gall.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
I'm joined now by Christigall, most of.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
The Christ of Goall Show, so let's brand talk radio
host Chris Togall.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Also his podcast is a musk listen every day Christa
Gall Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
And host of the Christgall Show.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Let's Bring in Christa Gall. Pay You welcome Chris Speak
Gall to.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Chris to Gall podcast is presented by US Medical Plan
dot com. Save big money monthly and get better health
covers at US Medicalplan dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey, they're merry Christmas, and I guess I will say
a happy New Year. Welcome into the Christagall Show podcast.
I want to say thank you for another tremendous year
of support. Your downloads and your regularly scheduled attention to
this show means more than I can say. Our entire
family that puts the show together every day, they work
so hard to give you content, hopefully quality content you enjoy.
(00:50):
We didn't want to leave you without quality content during
the holidays. While we're taking some time away, we've put
together from some various shows, some special long form interviews.
There will be some repeat content of some shows and
segments that we really enjoyed. Maybe they're new to you
if you missed them before. But over the next few days,
while we're away taking some time with family, I hope
you're able to as well. But we never want to
(01:10):
leave you without something to enjoy and listen to. And
today's show and future shows hopefully will be no exception.
We're going to be back with brand new programming on
January fifth. But one thing that I want you to know,
if you're an Obamacare person, and you are now, it
appears officially under the gun because Congress is not going
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(01:32):
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one or US medicalplan dot com. Well, I hope you
are enjoying your holiday season. I know for a good
many people, I know people personally in my life. Odds
are you do too if you're not one of those
yourself who at this time of year uniquely battle and
you uniquely battle because you're missing a loved one, you've
(03:17):
just lost a loved one, or every year this time
of year, it reminds you of that loved one, no
matter how many years go by. I have a friend
who has authored a new book, who knows a lot
about grief, but as a Christian, she also knows the
hope she has in Jesus, and she has written it
beautifully in a book called Thriving in the Barren Place,
(03:40):
How to Trust God Fueled How to Trust in God
fueled my journey through heartache and loss. Paula Roming is
her name, and she joins me this morning, probably first
of all, Merry Christmas to you.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Merry Christmas to you, Chris.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Your story and I want to get into it very specifically,
but I always like to talk to people about the
motivation for their book. You're not a writer by training.
You do other things professionally, but you felt inclined to
write this story, and I'm interested to know why before
we get into the details. I mean, because it takes time,
at least it does for me. You don't crank out
a book overnight most of us.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No. No, I knew along the journey that I had
a very special story to tell. It hit me about
mid journey that what I was going through was unique
and that what specifically, how God was empowering me to
(04:38):
go through the journey because I am a woman of faith,
I go through these difficulties with hope and with purpose,
and that is what was different and what I was
learning along the way, and how God was empowering me
(05:00):
to go through these difficulties I think was atypical then
the way most people go through something of this nature.
And so the fact that God tapped me to write
the book hit me about mid journey, and he it
was like, you need to do this. I have gifted
(05:21):
you with words, and I have made you a writer.
And although maybe not vocationally, at that point, so that
was that was where the journey began.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
You felt called. And I always think that's interesting because
I think you know, as as believers, as Christians, you know,
not in a you know, mystical way, I know, but
you when you say you feel called, can you explain
that to people? I would struggle to you know, my
personal interactions with the Holy Spirit. It's a tough thing
(05:54):
to quantify and explain to people, and they think maybe
it sounds like sorcery or something. Explain that experience for people.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Sure, And because as believers, we we believe that the
Holy Spirit dwells us. Yes, the third person of the
Trinity and dwells believers. And it's not it is definitely different.
I mean it's it's not like we're used to buy
(06:25):
some sort of experience necessarily, it's God speaks to us
through his word. His word. We believe the Bible is
alive and active with the power of the Holy Spirit.
And therefore that is why Christians put so much emphasis
(06:45):
on on reading the Bible and using the Bible as
as bedrock and as our guide, and because we believe
it's it's inspired that inspired of God, the breath of
God in written form, and God speaks to us through
(07:06):
his word, and it's like the Holy Spirit that's active
in the scriptures ignite with the spirit within us. And yes,
it makes a flame or a fire within us, not
literally obviously, but that's the best way I can describe it,
and it just so our space.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I may interrupt on that point, Paula, because Paula Roaming
is with us again, and I wanted to mention your
book is called Thriving in the Barren Place. The reason
reading scripture is so important, and I don't mean to
sermonize to people, but this is why. And I, by
the way, I need to take this to heart much
more when you ruminate on the physical scripture in the book,
that's how it touches you. When we say God moves,
(07:50):
there's something in his word, and it may take you
a few readings before you get there, but I'll guarantee
you at some point in your life, right whoever you
are and wherever you are with whatever you're battling, you
read His word long enough, and eventually something like this
will likely happen to you, just as it has to
you and to me.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I think, right, right right, and go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, let's let's talk about your book. Let's get into it,
because I don't I didn't mean to bury the lead
here and your book and the whole reason you wrote it,
Thriving in the Barren Place. You're a mom, yes, and
the story is about your twin boys, one of whom
you no longer have. So let's let's start there.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And thank you. My husband Mark and I are the
parents of twin boys, as you said, and they were
born six weeks early via urgency section, and from the
beginning the boys were nick You and.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Luke.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Our larger twin was typical tiny, under five pounds, but
robust and healthy and great color and gray appetite and
robust out of lungs and all those things you want
to have a little baby. And Matthew are smaller twin.
He came in at four pounds and seven ounces, and
(09:16):
he was a nic you, and his color was was
sort of yellow, and he looked like he wasn't done yet,
that's the only way I can describe it. And he
struggled from the beginning. He had no bridge to his nose,
(09:36):
and he had elf ears because there was no roll
to the top of his ears, and there were sort
of other indicators that the doctors noticed that indicated that
that he could go he could come out of it
and make significant changes and have no lasting effects. Or
(10:01):
the flip side could be that these could be indicators
that he was in for a long struggle and we
as well, and that did play out. And Matthew did
have severe special needs that that were present from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
He he.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Just had developmental disabilities. When he first the boys first
came home, Matthew struggled to eat and his suck was underdeveloped,
of course, and so he couldn't. He had all kinds
of feeding issues and a lot of sensory seeking issues.
And when Matthew was eighteen months old, he developed a
(10:47):
seizure disorder. And so he had his first seizure when
he was eighteen months old, and it was not uncommon
for us to have to call nine one one when
he turned blue or when the seizures wouldn't stop with medication.
But yes, from the time he was eighteen months old
to the time he passed, he was on significant number
(11:09):
of seizure medications, all at the same time. And as
I alluded to there, when Matthew was twelve years old,
he died. And about the time he was nine years old,
we were diagnosed with a seizure disorder called linux Guestow.
And it's not a genetic syndrome, it's just the type
(11:30):
of a seizure disorder. And that seizure disorder, particularly when
they had adolescents. The seizures can dissipate and become less,
less debilitating and less a part of their lives. Or
it can go another way, and it can be the
seizures can intensify and send them into what we call status,
(11:51):
which means they're having constant seizures all the time, and
it actually shuts down their body and it takes them.
And that's what happened to Matt.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You. Hey there, it's Chris back on the phone with
my dentist and friend, Bob Spinato at Williamsburg Dentel in Broomall, Pennsylvania,
just off the Blue Route. With new technology, you have
not just new associates, but they brought new technology into
the business to make it a little easier for patients.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, it's a very exciting time in dentistry. We have
now introduced a three dimensional X ray called a cbct
can in our office, which allows us to diagnose and
things earlier for patients. My daughter is placing a lot
of implants in the past that referred out as now
being done in house. And we also we've been using
dental or computer scanners who are taking impressions for crowns
(12:36):
for about the last two to three years. We now
have introduced the next step, which is a milling machine
and anything now make crowns in the office. Things can
be completed in the same day as opposed to having
a temporary cround put on in three weeks later, coming
back and having a permit cround put on. It's really
a game changer and it's a time saver for our
patients have to make multiple visits to the office.
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Pick up the phone or go online make that appointment.
Six one oh three five three twenty seven hundred Williamsburg
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(13:16):
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(14:00):
Medical Plan dot com. Well, this would be a time
where the parent of someone who has not had these
difficulties raising children has to ask, just as a pedestrian question,
twelve years you raised Matthew like this while Luke was
otherwise Well, and yes, I just can't. You've got another
(14:23):
child you're trying to raise, who is by all accounts,
healthy and well and typical, and Matthew is not that
unto itself. I mean, setting aside the struggles with Matthew,
you still have a healthy son you're trying to raise
at the same time. How in the world did you
achieve that?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Well, Matthew's care did take a lot of my time
and energy. I had to work very hard to do that,
and then to incorporate Luke into helping me with Matthew's care,
always bringing him alongside. We did get First Steps, the
First Steps program to help with Matthew's care when Matthew
(15:06):
was a little over a year old, and that helped
a little bit in the early days because the therapists
were always very kind to bring Luke along and if
they were trying to play games with Matthew, they incorporated
Luke and it gave me a few minutes extra to,
you know, to be with Luke. But I was very
(15:28):
cognizant of that fact that I had two boys, I
didn't have one, and I needed to pay attention to
both of them. So I did listen very acutely to
what Luke was interested in, and I watched and prayed
a lot that I would be attentive and that I
would not just be overwhelmed with Matthew's care, but that
(15:52):
I would be paying attention and listening.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And I did learn the beautiful part of your story, Paul.
And of course it's called try in the barren place.
How trust in God fueled my journey through heartache and laws.
You said you prayed, and this is what I would
love to know. Were you a prayerful person upon discovery
of Matthew's struggles and throughout those twelve years or was
there any point, if you're to be honest, was there
(16:16):
any point where you just said to heck with this
where you got angry and said this God business isn't
for me. It's not working.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Well. Early on in the journey, there was that point
where I had a crisis of faith, But it was
never a crisis to the point where I said chuck it.
It was I had to reassess the way that I
had been raised and the things that I had come
to believe along the way I believed when the boys
(16:45):
were small. I believed that if I knocked it out
of the park on all the spiritual disciplines, if I
if I sort of held up my end of the deal,
then God would hold up his end of the deal
by giving me my version of the Christ, the wonderful
Christian life. He would just deliver that on a silver
platter and answer to my prayers, because that's what was
(17:06):
his job. And so it was this was before your kids.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
This is important. I love that if I could for
a second, So you're saying, before your kids, you thought, Hey,
I'm going to check all the boxes and do everything
right God, and in exchange, I'm going to have a
happy marriage and a couple of healthy kids, and we're
going to be drinking. It's kind of where you.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Were, yeah, yes, yes, And then all this difficulty hit
and the exhaustion and the work and the heartbreak and
the major disappointment. Of course, I had all these expectations
of you know, God, he's going to do this. I'm
going to I'm going to knock it out of the
park on my end, and then he's going to knock
(17:44):
it out of the park on his end, and we're
going to be good. And then, of course, when expectations
hit reality, what happens is a head on collision with disappointment,
which is what happened to me. But because I was
raised in a Christian I'm a stable, two parent home.
I was taught the scriptures from an early age, which
I know most people don't have that these days. And
(18:08):
so I was given that gift, and I was raised
in a church. I had that solid spiritual foundation. So
but I knew that somewhere along the line I had
picked up these erroneous notions and I needed to really
do a deep dive into scripture and find out what
was true and what was not, because I knew that
he was the way I knew the scripture was true.
(18:30):
I just was like, somewhere along the line, I picked
up these erroneous notions that Christians don't go through pain.
If you're a good Christian, you don't have a life
of pain. And I don't know where I picked up
that notion, because the scripture does not bear that out
and it doesn't take com smart.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
This is the part of your story that I love
the most, and I hope every Christian hears it. We do,
we think, and I'm guilty of it too. You think, Hey,
i'm tithing, I'm living right, I'm upright, I'm doing everything right,
I'm prayerful, I'm you know, I'm doing it. Look at me,
I'm doing it, you know, like a kid without training wheels.
But that doesn't mean you're not going to fall off
the bike. And I think that is where so many
(19:08):
people stumble. They think, well, then what's all that Christian
stuff for anyway? So let's get into that all things
for His good. People. Hear your story twelve years with
Matthew's health, and you say, what's the good in that?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Paula, Well, this is the good. And pain does something
to us and it changes us if we let it.
It changes us because it shows us what's important. But
I need to back up just a few steps and
(19:43):
lay the groundwork here for a second. True Christianity is
different than other religions per se, because rather than an
adherence to a certain set of rules and abstaining from
certain negative behaviors and that being the sum total of
(20:07):
one's religious experience, Christianity is different. Christianity is a relationship
God himself in dwell We have a one on one
relationship with God himself through the person of Jesus Christ,
and that is in the dwelling of the Holy Spirit.
And that in itself is astounding enough. But the basis
(20:29):
of any relationship, of course, we know this is trust.
And if you don't trust someone, how in the world
can have a relationship with them? Obviously you can't. So
that is why the subtitle of my book is how
trust in God fueled My journey through heartache and laws,
because I knew in order to trust him, I had
(20:50):
to know exactly who he was and who I was
dealing with. And I'll tell you, Chris, when I did
a deep dive into scripture and found out who this
God is as much as I can through the scriptures,
it was such. It brought such peace and such clarity.
(21:12):
And so that's why when I'm speaking to groups or
how why I sort of hammer that point. When we
know who it is we're dealing with, so much falls
into place. Now, that doesn't mean necessarily that all of
our circumstances changed for the better. It certainly doesn't. Didn't
in my case, and in the place of the saints
(21:34):
in scripture, it certainly didn't mean that. It means that
we know that He is in control. We know that
he knows the end from the beginning. We know. Throughout
Scripture he describes himself, I am the one who is compassionate.
I am full of loving kindness. I am compassionate and
(21:57):
showing mercy to a thousand generations. He says that not once,
but several, many, many times, all throughout, scriptures woven throughout
the fabric. And when we realize that he has a
massive plan that was in place, It's not like he's
on Plan B now because Plan A didn't work. He's
(22:19):
only got Plan A. And that plan started way back
in the garden of Eden. Jesus was always always part
of the plan. And we see that foreshadowing from the beginning,
from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And so I may I ask, when you talk about
this relationship, when you really got to know God, was
this early in Matthew's battles or was this halfway? Because
I'm trying to quantify twelve years of just vicious, violent struggle,
and I'm sure taxing, exhausting. I run out of words
(22:58):
to describe what that twelve years is. Did you have
that faith and that trust throughout that run or how
long did it take you? Did you have an epiphany
halfway through a third of the way through, And how
do you look at that particular window of time in
the rear view?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, of course I mentioned that crisis of faith that
happened early on, within the first few months the first year,
when I got home with the boys, And what happened
was when I realized I had to do a deep
dive into scripture. You mentioned the exhaustion and the workload.
I couldn't sit there and do the you know, the
(23:35):
quintessential quiet time that we're told in ladies' meetings we're
supposed to have, or we sit with the latte in
the early morning in the sunlight and the notebook and
all that. I mean, that just wasn't going to happen.
And so I had to find another way because going
without the light of scripture, that was my lifeline. And
(23:55):
I couldn't not do not do that. So I had
to find another way. So script Christian radio was was
a medium that was introduced that was part of my
growing up. And so I found a Christian radio station
in our area that did teaching. It wasn't just praise
(24:16):
and worship music. It was teaching. It was solid Biblical,
biblically based teachers around the clock. And so I switched
that on my kitchen radio and I turned it on
when I got up, and it was a soundtrack of
our home. So I had teachers like the venerable ones
(24:39):
that that that that we know and love. I had
those streaming into my home, into my kitchen. Twenty four
to seven, or at least while I was up. And
that is the way that I became strong because I
was like, I have to cut to the chase. I
(25:01):
cannot waste my time listening and putting stuff into my
head and into my heart that is not going to
help me.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And wow, because that's quite by the way, if I may,
that's that's quite an advertisement. You know here here in
Salem Salem Media, we have a whole family of what
we call Christian teach and talk radio stations all over
the country. And I can only imagine people inside the
company are going right on paula Way to go, because
I know there are a ton of people that consume
that and love to hear that. How about your husband?
(25:34):
Could I ask you quickly about him? Because yes, you've
got a marriage to deal with through this too, and
we all know that spouses are not tracking emotionally and
mentally always on the same plane through something like this
at the same time, how was he through it? And
how were you as a spouse through it? I mean, here,
(25:55):
you're the mother of a perfectly healthy boy, mother of
a boy that's struggling, and you're wife. I mean, that's
that's a lot of roles you've still got to fulfill
throughout all this.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yes, well, my husband is he did shift work throughout
our entire marriage. He still does and he's a very
quiet man and very you know so, but he he
did shift work, as I said, so that physically removed
him from the home for a good portion of of
(26:29):
the days, every every day except the weekends. And so
there was some struggle related to that. And of course
there's always struggles. And the statistics are Chris that when
there is a special needs child in a family that
(26:50):
most of the time the marriage does not survive.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yes, when after a death, is that right?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yes? And the death of a child the marriage doesn't survive.
Now both of those separate. Now we have both of
those together, and I'm not going to say that you
know that we're waltzing through fields of daisies. Definitely not.
We don't. We have our We have our struggles, and
I want to, you know, be honest about that. But
(27:19):
we have to also be be humble enough to say
when we need help. And but back to how is
Mark handling this. We did divide and conquer a lot.
Mark had to step up to the plate and take
Luke a lot of times when Matthew is in the hospital,
(27:40):
he just had to drop everything at work, he had
to come home, and he had to be with Luke
at home for however long Matthew and I were in
the hospital. So that's just the way it had to be,
because I didn't I knew that I would take Matthew
to er we were going to you know, I would
be texting him, this is what's going to happen. I
need you to come home. So there was a lot
(28:01):
of that. There was a lot of divide and conquer.
We did the best that we could, and we we
deal with difficulty differently. I am a more emotive and
(28:21):
verbose person. He is not, and so he just deals
with it in his own way. And with God, I mean,
I have to to just let him deal with it,
deal with things with God in his own way. In
the scriptures, it says God said Jesus says to one
(28:47):
of his disciples who's saying, well, like, well, well what
about him? What about him? And and Jesus says to
that disciple, don't worry about him. Don't worry about him
to and it says in other places to his own
he stands or falls don't worry about him, You worry
about you.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
Yes, I know it's the holidays. I know this is
not a time of year most people think about losing weight.
But you know, our executive producer Fast Eddie is doing it.
He's using PhD Weight Loss right now as a weight
loss tool through the holiday season. It can be done.
And you know how, I know in just two weeks time.
Right now, as we speak, he's on the program, and
(29:26):
the first two weeks of the program he's already dropped
eight pounds. Now, you know, I told you the reason
he's doing it, because I told you I lost forty
pounds in under four months earlier this year. Eddie said,
I want to try it. I said, it's almost the holidays.
He said, I don't care. I want to try it.
And he's lost eight pounds in two weeks time. He
works with his counselor, same as I work with my counselor.
I've kept the weight off. I'm going to probably go
(29:47):
for another twenty in the new year. But the point
is right now, I've hit idle on purpose. I'm maintaining
my weight loss because my counselor at PhD Weight Loss
has taught me exactly what I need to do to maintain, maintain,
and then when I want to re engage and kick
it into full gear and start losing more than New year,
I can. The best part about PhD weight loss this
(30:07):
time of year is they're very well aware this is
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big and merry Christmas. Pray for him, but you can't
drag him along? Right is that a point in marriage,
(33:01):
and I write my wife and I talk about this
all the time if I'm if I'm down or feeling
glum or pessimistic, and she's trying her best to live
a faith filled life. We talk all the time about
what her responsibility is to me, and there's only so
much she can do right until she says, well, sorry, brother,
that's between you and the Lord. I've got things to
do right. Which is not to be insensitive, but you do.
(33:23):
You have to kind of protect your relationship there.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, And it's not and his walk with God is
not my responsibility. It's not my responsibility to to you know,
like you say, drag him along or jack him up
here or and I'm certainly I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I'm trying to interrupt you, Paul, but I think this
is such an important point Thriving in the Barren Places PAULA.
Roming's book. And by the way, Paul's last name is
filled R O M A n G. This beyond what
you're talking about in your story. I think it's so
interesting when I see people who are married and one
(34:01):
chooses to go to church and one chooses to not,
and they will say in conversation, well, I can't get
my spouse. Often it's women who will show up in
church and my husband doesn't want to come. He doesn't
want to go. And I think this is kind of
an interesting conversation. Generally, you would say to that woman
or man who's you know, they're trying to make a
spiritual life for themselves and their family, but their spouse
(34:23):
doesn't want to participate, you'd say.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
What, definitely pray for them, uphold them in prayer, and
not just oh God help them, not not that, but
really pray for them, like do warfare and battle on
their behalf in prayer, and fight for them in prayer,
(34:48):
even if if you if they don't even know that
you're doing it. It's not about them knowing that, hey,
I'm doing this for you, it's a because prayer is
that love gift that you can fight for your spouse.
And I would encourage women everywhere to do this. And
(35:12):
when I say that that as women, is our husband's
spiritual walk or whatever is not our responsibility. Now women,
well chuckle when I see this. But because men don't
usually have this problem, but we are not the Holy
Spirit to our husband. We have to let the Holy
Spirit fill his rule. We do not need to help
(35:34):
the Holy Spirit in any way to convict or to say,
oh boy, you should do X, Y and Z. We
need to stay in our lane and take care of
ourselves and let them to their own aster they stand
or fall. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
It does? It makes total sense. Thriving in the Barren
Place is Paula's book. Let me get back to that question.
I asked you a little while ago. Now that it's
been you have twelve how long has it been since
you lost Matthew?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
This year will be thirteen years? This is the Yeah,
this is the this is the twelve to thirteen year mark.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Uh huh, So twelve years. You've been without him for
a bit longer than you were with him. And I
wonder if you look at that period of time with him,
which must have seemed endless, you know, the old adage
is even just raising children that you know, the days
seem endless and the years fly by. How do you
(36:38):
view that window of time, that twelve years with someone
who needed so much as Matthew did? And as you
look back on it, did it feel like a blink?
Or was that the painful slog you undoubtedly were feeling
as you were living through it.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
In retrospect, I refer to it now as the Matthew years,
you know, because I have to talk about it now
because my book, and I'm glad to do so. But
when I talk about the Matthew years, I do see
it as it was a precious season, because because I
(37:13):
had him, and God entrusted me with Matthew as a gift,
I have to see it that way. So Matthew was
the gift that he gave me. He entrusted Matthew to
my care, and because he knew that in his strength,
I could handle it, and he knew it would change me.
And so I see Matthew not as a burden but
(37:33):
as a gift. And those the days were so long,
and it was such a long haul, and it taught
me so much. What I hated about it was that
Matthew suffered the whole time, from the day that he
was born to the day that he died. He suffered,
(37:55):
and I could do something to help him, but I
couldn't solve the problem, and I had to watch helplessly
as he suffered and trusting him and us to our
heavenly Father. Now I see the time since then it
(38:18):
doesn't seem like. Somebody pointed that out to me a
few months ago that this year is like the turning
point year where he's been He was with me as
long as he's been gone, and this is sort of
the hinge on the door, and it doesn't feel like
(38:39):
it's been that long. And in some ways it feels
like an eternity since he's been gone, and others in
other ways that feels like a blink. But because the grieving,
the grieving process has been a long one.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And I'm sorry to interrupt, but that never ends. Just
so people understand, we have a couple of other friends
who've lost suddenly lost children too, and that's just never.
You can't that's that never ever. You never find a
place of peace with that, do.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
You well, not a place of peace, but it does change.
And when Matthew died, I went to a grief support,
a grief share at my church at the time. And
one of the things that was said to me that
was so helpful during that time it was said in
(39:32):
a video. And you know, people say all the time, oh,
give yourself time. Grief takes time. Grief takes time. I
wanted to know how long, how long. How long are
we talking about it? We talking like six months? Are
we talking a year? Are we talking six y? I mean,
how long are we talking? Grief takes time? What does
that mean? And somebody said, who had lost I believe
(39:54):
it was doctor Henry Cloud, who had also lost a son.
He said, when you're dealing with the loss of a child,
getting to a place of resolution takes ten years. That
floored me because I was like, ten years, really, I've
got that long. But he said, and I want to
(40:15):
say this to someone who is going through grief right now. Yes,
it's hard. Yes you feel like you're going nuts right now,
but I promise you're not, and it will change and
it will get better, And especially here at the holidays,
I want to just say a few things, just general
(40:37):
things about grief. Grief in itself is not linear. It's
not It doesn't just because it's been three years or
two years or nine years or whatever, that doesn't necessarily
mean that it's better or that you're not going to
feel it. It's not like, in fact, ye're one for me?
(41:00):
What it was terrible. It was just painful, but it
was also like was going through the whole process again,
but with anesthesia. Years two, probably up to four were
like going through with no anesthesia. It was actually worse.
And another thing that made it worse was because to
(41:21):
other people in the community or in the church community,
and sometimes even in the family, we're like, oh, that's
old news. You know, Matthew's agent history and it. And
I want to say that like, grief is not like
a bad case of the stomach flew where you know,
you get over it. You know, in a week or
(41:41):
so you're kind of over it and you're like, whoah,
that's done. It's more like an amputation. Because you've lost
a part of yourself. Life will never be the same again,
and going forward, you have to do life differently, the
(42:03):
same as you would have to do You would have
to learn life differently if you had lost a leg
or an arm. You have to learn how to do
it differently. And just as if there was an accident
or a war injury or something and a person lost
a limb, there would be all kinds of therapists and
(42:26):
medical professionals involved in helping the person to learn how
to do life differently. And the same is true needs
to be true in the grief and lost process.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Paul I have one left and I don't want to
miss out on this question, which is you often hear
people who go through things like this say why why Matthew?
Why did he go through this? Why was he ever
allowed to be born like this? Wouldn't you rather him
have not been born? Why did you have to go
through this? As a Christian? The why is often so
often what we hear is Christians when people struggle or
(43:00):
goes through tragedy, and you say, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I don't know, and I don't need to know because
I and I don't mean it as a crutch or
as a cop out. I know whom I've believed, I
know who my faith is in. I know who is
in control of this messed up world, who stands above
(43:26):
and beyond it all. I know that, and I don't
have to know.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Do you think someday you will do? I?
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yes, I will. I probably will know in heaven and
I won't and I won't care.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
But is that where I ask you this, is that
where Matthew is, there's Matthew there. Will you see him there?
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yes? Yes, yes, I have. Scripture tells us this that
you know that to be absent from the body is
to be present with the Lord, and I know exactly
where Matthew is. I don't have to worry about that.
And that is our blessed hope. It's our true and
living hope. And that's why Christians go through grief differently.
(44:14):
We go through grief knowing that we will see our
loved one again. We go through it knowing that there
is there is hope. We will see our loved one again,
healed and hole in God's presence, we will join them.
It's not just pie in the sky and the sweet
by and bye to make ourselves feel better. It is
as true as you and me sitting.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Here, Paula. This book, I think is so important to
people who are battling. I just I'm so thrilled you
wrote it. I know people will benefit from it, particularly
if they're raw and they're hurting, and even if you
know they've had a few years under their belt. This
is a great teaching tool and a help and it's
called Thriving in the Barren Place. Best place to get it.
(44:56):
People can go online and get it right, Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Son Ama, Yes, and I'll provide the Amazon link.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Paul I'm so grateful for your wisdom. I think I
can say thank you, and I know you're thankful actually
in many ways that you went through this. It's really
a remarkable thing and you were great to share your
story with everyone. Thank you so much, my friend, and
I wish you and your family a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Thank you. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
What a great opportunity you've presented. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
So that's a wrap for another Christa Gall Show podcast.
Thanks for committing to it, listening to it all the
way through. You're a fighter. I like that about you.
Hope you'll leave it a five star review and a
written review. Apple Podcasts, Spotify. We'll see you next time
here on the Christa Gall Show Podcast. They're Chris to
Gall Show Podcast
Let's bring up Christ to Golf.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
It is Chris to God Risk Gall.
Speaker 3 (00:03):
I'm joined now by Christigall, most of.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
The Christ of Goall Show, so let's brand talk radio
host Chris Togall.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Also his podcast is a musk listen every day Christa
Gall Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
And host of the Christgall Show.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Let's Bring in Christa Gall. Pay You welcome Chris Speak
Gall to.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Chris to Gall podcast is presented by US Medical Plan
dot com. Save big money monthly and get better health
covers at US Medicalplan dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hey, they're merry Christmas, and I guess I will say
a happy New Year. Welcome into the Christagall Show podcast.
I want to say thank you for another tremendous year
of support. Your downloads and your regularly scheduled attention to
this show means more than I can say. Our entire
family that puts the show together every day, they work
so hard to give you content, hopefully quality content you enjoy.
(00:50):
We didn't want to leave you without quality content during
the holidays. While we're taking some time away, we've put
together from some various shows, some special long form interviews.
There will be some repeat content of some shows and
segments that we really enjoyed. Maybe they're new to you
if you missed them before. But over the next few days,
while we're away taking some time with family, I hope
you're able to as well. But we never want to
(01:10):
leave you without something to enjoy and listen to. And
today's show and future shows hopefully will be no exception.
We're going to be back with brand new programming on
January fifth. But one thing that I want you to know,
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appears officially under the gun because Congress is not going
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one or US medicalplan dot com. Well, I hope you
are enjoying your holiday season. I know for a good
many people, I know people personally in my life. Odds
are you do too if you're not one of those
yourself who at this time of year uniquely battle and
you uniquely battle because you're missing a loved one, you've
(03:17):
just lost a loved one, or every year this time
of year, it reminds you of that loved one, no
matter how many years go by. I have a friend
who has authored a new book, who knows a lot
about grief, but as a Christian, she also knows the
hope she has in Jesus, and she has written it
beautifully in a book called Thriving in the Barren Place,
(03:40):
How to Trust God Fueled How to Trust in God
fueled my journey through heartache and loss. Paula Roming is
her name, and she joins me this morning, probably first
of all, Merry Christmas to you.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
Merry Christmas to you, Chris.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Your story and I want to get into it very specifically,
but I always like to talk to people about the
motivation for their book. You're not a writer by training.
You do other things professionally, but you felt inclined to
write this story, and I'm interested to know why before
we get into the details. I mean, because it takes time,
at least it does for me. You don't crank out
a book overnight most of us.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
No. No, I knew along the journey that I had
a very special story to tell. It hit me about
mid journey that what I was going through was unique
and that what specifically, how God was empowering me to
(04:38):
go through the journey because I am a woman of faith,
I go through these difficulties with hope and with purpose,
and that is what was different and what I was
learning along the way, and how God was empowering me
(05:00):
to go through these difficulties I think was atypical then
the way most people go through something of this nature.
And so the fact that God tapped me to write
the book hit me about mid journey, and he it
was like, you need to do this. I have gifted
(05:21):
you with words, and I have made you a writer.
And although maybe not vocationally, at that point, so that
was that was where the journey began.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
You felt called. And I always think that's interesting because
I think you know, as as believers, as Christians, you know,
not in a you know, mystical way, I know, but
you when you say you feel called, can you explain
that to people? I would struggle to you know, my
personal interactions with the Holy Spirit. It's a tough thing
(05:54):
to quantify and explain to people, and they think maybe
it sounds like sorcery or something. Explain that experience for people.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Sure, And because as believers, we we believe that the
Holy Spirit dwells us. Yes, the third person of the
Trinity and dwells believers. And it's not it is definitely different.
I mean it's it's not like we're used to buy
(06:25):
some sort of experience necessarily, it's God speaks to us
through his word. His word. We believe the Bible is
alive and active with the power of the Holy Spirit.
And therefore that is why Christians put so much emphasis
(06:45):
on on reading the Bible and using the Bible as
as bedrock and as our guide, and because we believe
it's it's inspired that inspired of God, the breath of
God in written form, and God speaks to us through
(07:06):
his word, and it's like the Holy Spirit that's active
in the scriptures ignite with the spirit within us. And yes,
it makes a flame or a fire within us, not
literally obviously, but that's the best way I can describe it,
and it just so our space.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
I may interrupt on that point, Paula, because Paula Roaming
is with us again, and I wanted to mention your
book is called Thriving in the Barren Place. The reason
reading scripture is so important, and I don't mean to
sermonize to people, but this is why. And I, by
the way, I need to take this to heart much
more when you ruminate on the physical scripture in the book,
that's how it touches you. When we say God moves,
(07:50):
there's something in his word, and it may take you
a few readings before you get there, but I'll guarantee
you at some point in your life, right whoever you
are and wherever you are with whatever you're battling, you
read His word long enough, and eventually something like this
will likely happen to you, just as it has to
you and to me.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I think, right, right right, and go ahead, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Well, let's let's talk about your book. Let's get into it,
because I don't I didn't mean to bury the lead
here and your book and the whole reason you wrote it,
Thriving in the Barren Place. You're a mom, yes, and
the story is about your twin boys, one of whom
you no longer have. So let's let's start there.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
And thank you. My husband Mark and I are the
parents of twin boys, as you said, and they were
born six weeks early via urgency section, and from the
beginning the boys were nick You and.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Luke.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Our larger twin was typical tiny, under five pounds, but
robust and healthy and great color and gray appetite and
robust out of lungs and all those things you want
to have a little baby. And Matthew are smaller twin.
He came in at four pounds and seven ounces, and
(09:16):
he was a nic you, and his color was was
sort of yellow, and he looked like he wasn't done yet,
that's the only way I can describe it. And he
struggled from the beginning. He had no bridge to his nose,
(09:36):
and he had elf ears because there was no roll
to the top of his ears, and there were sort
of other indicators that the doctors noticed that indicated that
that he could go he could come out of it
and make significant changes and have no lasting effects. Or
(10:01):
the flip side could be that these could be indicators
that he was in for a long struggle and we
as well, and that did play out. And Matthew did
have severe special needs that that were present from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
He he.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Just had developmental disabilities. When he first the boys first
came home, Matthew struggled to eat and his suck was underdeveloped,
of course, and so he couldn't. He had all kinds
of feeding issues and a lot of sensory seeking issues.
And when Matthew was eighteen months old, he developed a
(10:47):
seizure disorder. And so he had his first seizure when
he was eighteen months old, and it was not uncommon
for us to have to call nine one one when
he turned blue or when the seizures wouldn't stop with medication.
But yes, from the time he was eighteen months old
to the time he passed, he was on significant number
(11:09):
of seizure medications, all at the same time. And as
I alluded to there, when Matthew was twelve years old,
he died. And about the time he was nine years old,
we were diagnosed with a seizure disorder called linux Guestow.
And it's not a genetic syndrome, it's just the type
(11:30):
of a seizure disorder. And that seizure disorder, particularly when
they had adolescents. The seizures can dissipate and become less,
less debilitating and less a part of their lives. Or
it can go another way, and it can be the
seizures can intensify and send them into what we call status,
(11:51):
which means they're having constant seizures all the time, and
it actually shuts down their body and it takes them.
And that's what happened to Matt.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
You. Hey there, it's Chris back on the phone with
my dentist and friend, Bob Spinato at Williamsburg Dentel in Broomall, Pennsylvania,
just off the Blue Route. With new technology, you have
not just new associates, but they brought new technology into
the business to make it a little easier for patients.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Yeah, it's a very exciting time in dentistry. We have
now introduced a three dimensional X ray called a cbct
can in our office, which allows us to diagnose and
things earlier for patients. My daughter is placing a lot
of implants in the past that referred out as now
being done in house. And we also we've been using
dental or computer scanners who are taking impressions for crowns
(12:36):
for about the last two to three years. We now
have introduced the next step, which is a milling machine
and anything now make crowns in the office. Things can
be completed in the same day as opposed to having
a temporary cround put on in three weeks later, coming
back and having a permit cround put on. It's really
a game changer and it's a time saver for our
patients have to make multiple visits to the office.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Pick up the phone or go online make that appointment.
Six one oh three five three twenty seven hundred Williamsburg
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(14:00):
Medical Plan dot com. Well, this would be a time
where the parent of someone who has not had these
difficulties raising children has to ask, just as a pedestrian question,
twelve years you raised Matthew like this while Luke was
otherwise Well, and yes, I just can't. You've got another
(14:23):
child you're trying to raise, who is by all accounts,
healthy and well and typical, and Matthew is not that
unto itself. I mean, setting aside the struggles with Matthew,
you still have a healthy son you're trying to raise
at the same time. How in the world did you
achieve that?
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Well, Matthew's care did take a lot of my time
and energy. I had to work very hard to do that,
and then to incorporate Luke into helping me with Matthew's care,
always bringing him alongside. We did get First Steps, the
First Steps program to help with Matthew's care when Matthew
(15:06):
was a little over a year old, and that helped
a little bit in the early days because the therapists
were always very kind to bring Luke along and if
they were trying to play games with Matthew, they incorporated
Luke and it gave me a few minutes extra to,
you know, to be with Luke. But I was very
(15:28):
cognizant of that fact that I had two boys, I
didn't have one, and I needed to pay attention to
both of them. So I did listen very acutely to
what Luke was interested in, and I watched and prayed
a lot that I would be attentive and that I
would not just be overwhelmed with Matthew's care, but that
(15:52):
I would be paying attention and listening.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
And I did learn the beautiful part of your story, Paul.
And of course it's called try in the barren place.
How trust in God fueled my journey through heartache and laws.
You said you prayed, and this is what I would
love to know. Were you a prayerful person upon discovery
of Matthew's struggles and throughout those twelve years or was
there any point, if you're to be honest, was there
(16:16):
any point where you just said to heck with this
where you got angry and said this God business isn't
for me. It's not working.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Well. Early on in the journey, there was that point
where I had a crisis of faith, But it was
never a crisis to the point where I said chuck it.
It was I had to reassess the way that I
had been raised and the things that I had come
to believe along the way I believed when the boys
(16:45):
were small. I believed that if I knocked it out
of the park on all the spiritual disciplines, if I
if I sort of held up my end of the deal,
then God would hold up his end of the deal
by giving me my version of the Christ, the wonderful
Christian life. He would just deliver that on a silver
platter and answer to my prayers, because that's what was
(17:06):
his job. And so it was this was before your kids.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
This is important. I love that if I could for
a second, So you're saying, before your kids, you thought, Hey,
I'm going to check all the boxes and do everything
right God, and in exchange, I'm going to have a
happy marriage and a couple of healthy kids, and we're
going to be drinking. It's kind of where you.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Were, yeah, yes, yes, And then all this difficulty hit
and the exhaustion and the work and the heartbreak and
the major disappointment. Of course, I had all these expectations
of you know, God, he's going to do this. I'm
going to I'm going to knock it out of the
park on my end, and then he's going to knock
(17:44):
it out of the park on his end, and we're
going to be good. And then, of course, when expectations
hit reality, what happens is a head on collision with disappointment,
which is what happened to me. But because I was
raised in a Christian I'm a stable, two parent home.
I was taught the scriptures from an early age, which
I know most people don't have that these days. And
(18:08):
so I was given that gift, and I was raised
in a church. I had that solid spiritual foundation. So
but I knew that somewhere along the line I had
picked up these erroneous notions and I needed to really
do a deep dive into scripture and find out what
was true and what was not, because I knew that
he was the way I knew the scripture was true.
(18:30):
I just was like, somewhere along the line, I picked
up these erroneous notions that Christians don't go through pain.
If you're a good Christian, you don't have a life
of pain. And I don't know where I picked up
that notion, because the scripture does not bear that out
and it doesn't take com smart.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
This is the part of your story that I love
the most, and I hope every Christian hears it. We do,
we think, and I'm guilty of it too. You think, Hey,
i'm tithing, I'm living right, I'm upright, I'm doing everything right,
I'm prayerful, I'm you know, I'm doing it. Look at me,
I'm doing it, you know, like a kid without training wheels.
But that doesn't mean you're not going to fall off
the bike. And I think that is where so many
(19:08):
people stumble. They think, well, then what's all that Christian
stuff for anyway? So let's get into that all things
for His good. People. Hear your story twelve years with
Matthew's health, and you say, what's the good in that?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Paula, Well, this is the good. And pain does something
to us and it changes us if we let it.
It changes us because it shows us what's important. But
I need to back up just a few steps and
(19:43):
lay the groundwork here for a second. True Christianity is
different than other religions per se, because rather than an
adherence to a certain set of rules and abstaining from
certain negative behaviors and that being the sum total of
(20:07):
one's religious experience, Christianity is different. Christianity is a relationship
God himself in dwell We have a one on one
relationship with God himself through the person of Jesus Christ,
and that is in the dwelling of the Holy Spirit.
And that in itself is astounding enough. But the basis
(20:29):
of any relationship, of course, we know this is trust.
And if you don't trust someone, how in the world
can have a relationship with them? Obviously you can't. So
that is why the subtitle of my book is how
trust in God fueled My journey through heartache and laws,
because I knew in order to trust him, I had
(20:50):
to know exactly who he was and who I was
dealing with. And I'll tell you, Chris, when I did
a deep dive into scripture and found out who this
God is as much as I can through the scriptures,
it was such. It brought such peace and such clarity.
(21:12):
And so that's why when I'm speaking to groups or
how why I sort of hammer that point. When we
know who it is we're dealing with, so much falls
into place. Now, that doesn't mean necessarily that all of
our circumstances changed for the better. It certainly doesn't. Didn't
in my case, and in the place of the saints
(21:34):
in scripture, it certainly didn't mean that. It means that
we know that He is in control. We know that
he knows the end from the beginning. We know. Throughout
Scripture he describes himself, I am the one who is compassionate.
I am full of loving kindness. I am compassionate and
(21:57):
showing mercy to a thousand generations. He says that not once,
but several, many, many times, all throughout, scriptures woven throughout
the fabric. And when we realize that he has a
massive plan that was in place, It's not like he's
on Plan B now because Plan A didn't work. He's
(22:19):
only got Plan A. And that plan started way back
in the garden of Eden. Jesus was always always part
of the plan. And we see that foreshadowing from the beginning,
from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
And so I may I ask, when you talk about
this relationship, when you really got to know God, was
this early in Matthew's battles or was this halfway? Because
I'm trying to quantify twelve years of just vicious, violent struggle,
and I'm sure taxing, exhausting. I run out of words
(22:58):
to describe what that twelve years is. Did you have
that faith and that trust throughout that run or how
long did it take you? Did you have an epiphany
halfway through a third of the way through, And how
do you look at that particular window of time in
the rear view?
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, of course I mentioned that crisis of faith that
happened early on, within the first few months the first year,
when I got home with the boys, And what happened
was when I realized I had to do a deep
dive into scripture. You mentioned the exhaustion and the workload.
I couldn't sit there and do the you know, the
(23:35):
quintessential quiet time that we're told in ladies' meetings we're
supposed to have, or we sit with the latte in
the early morning in the sunlight and the notebook and
all that. I mean, that just wasn't going to happen.
And so I had to find another way because going
without the light of scripture, that was my lifeline. And
(23:55):
I couldn't not do not do that. So I had
to find another way. So script Christian radio was was
a medium that was introduced that was part of my
growing up. And so I found a Christian radio station
in our area that did teaching. It wasn't just praise
(24:16):
and worship music. It was teaching. It was solid Biblical,
biblically based teachers around the clock. And so I switched
that on my kitchen radio and I turned it on
when I got up, and it was a soundtrack of
our home. So I had teachers like the venerable ones
(24:39):
that that that that we know and love. I had
those streaming into my home, into my kitchen. Twenty four
to seven, or at least while I was up. And
that is the way that I became strong because I
was like, I have to cut to the chase. I
(25:01):
cannot waste my time listening and putting stuff into my
head and into my heart that is not going to
help me.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And wow, because that's quite by the way, if I may,
that's that's quite an advertisement. You know here here in
Salem Salem Media, we have a whole family of what
we call Christian teach and talk radio stations all over
the country. And I can only imagine people inside the
company are going right on paula Way to go, because
I know there are a ton of people that consume
that and love to hear that. How about your husband?
(25:34):
Could I ask you quickly about him? Because yes, you've
got a marriage to deal with through this too, and
we all know that spouses are not tracking emotionally and
mentally always on the same plane through something like this
at the same time, how was he through it? And
how were you as a spouse through it? I mean, here,
(25:55):
you're the mother of a perfectly healthy boy, mother of
a boy that's struggling, and you're wife. I mean, that's
that's a lot of roles you've still got to fulfill
throughout all this.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yes, well, my husband is he did shift work throughout
our entire marriage. He still does and he's a very
quiet man and very you know so, but he he
did shift work, as I said, so that physically removed
him from the home for a good portion of of
(26:29):
the days, every every day except the weekends. And so
there was some struggle related to that. And of course
there's always struggles. And the statistics are Chris that when
there is a special needs child in a family that
(26:50):
most of the time the marriage does not survive.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yes, when after a death, is that right?
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yes? And the death of a child the marriage doesn't survive.
Now both of those separate. Now we have both of
those together, and I'm not going to say that you
know that we're waltzing through fields of daisies. Definitely not.
We don't. We have our We have our struggles, and
I want to, you know, be honest about that. But
(27:19):
we have to also be be humble enough to say
when we need help. And but back to how is
Mark handling this. We did divide and conquer a lot.
Mark had to step up to the plate and take
Luke a lot of times when Matthew is in the hospital,
(27:40):
he just had to drop everything at work, he had
to come home, and he had to be with Luke
at home for however long Matthew and I were in
the hospital. So that's just the way it had to be,
because I didn't I knew that I would take Matthew
to er we were going to you know, I would
be texting him, this is what's going to happen. I
need you to come home. So there was a lot
(28:01):
of that. There was a lot of divide and conquer.
We did the best that we could, and we we
deal with difficulty differently. I am a more emotive and
(28:21):
verbose person. He is not, and so he just deals
with it in his own way. And with God, I mean,
I have to to just let him deal with it,
deal with things with God in his own way. In
the scriptures, it says God said Jesus says to one
(28:47):
of his disciples who's saying, well, like, well, well what
about him? What about him? And and Jesus says to
that disciple, don't worry about him. Don't worry about him
to and it says in other places to his own
he stands or falls don't worry about him, You worry
about you.
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big and merry Christmas. Pray for him, but you can't
drag him along? Right is that a point in marriage,
(33:01):
and I write my wife and I talk about this
all the time if I'm if I'm down or feeling
glum or pessimistic, and she's trying her best to live
a faith filled life. We talk all the time about
what her responsibility is to me, and there's only so
much she can do right until she says, well, sorry, brother,
that's between you and the Lord. I've got things to
do right. Which is not to be insensitive, but you do.
(33:23):
You have to kind of protect your relationship there.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Yeah, And it's not and his walk with God is
not my responsibility. It's not my responsibility to to you know,
like you say, drag him along or jack him up
here or and I'm certainly I mean.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
I'm trying to interrupt you, Paul, but I think this
is such an important point Thriving in the Barren Places PAULA.
Roming's book. And by the way, Paul's last name is
filled R O M A n G. This beyond what
you're talking about in your story. I think it's so
interesting when I see people who are married and one
(34:01):
chooses to go to church and one chooses to not,
and they will say in conversation, well, I can't get
my spouse. Often it's women who will show up in
church and my husband doesn't want to come. He doesn't
want to go. And I think this is kind of
an interesting conversation. Generally, you would say to that woman
or man who's you know, they're trying to make a
spiritual life for themselves and their family, but their spouse
(34:23):
doesn't want to participate, you'd say.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
What, definitely pray for them, uphold them in prayer, and
not just oh God help them, not not that, but
really pray for them, like do warfare and battle on
their behalf in prayer, and fight for them in prayer,
(34:48):
even if if you if they don't even know that
you're doing it. It's not about them knowing that, hey,
I'm doing this for you, it's a because prayer is
that love gift that you can fight for your spouse.
And I would encourage women everywhere to do this. And
(35:12):
when I say that that as women, is our husband's
spiritual walk or whatever is not our responsibility. Now women,
well chuckle when I see this. But because men don't
usually have this problem, but we are not the Holy
Spirit to our husband. We have to let the Holy
Spirit fill his rule. We do not need to help
(35:34):
the Holy Spirit in any way to convict or to say,
oh boy, you should do X, Y and Z. We
need to stay in our lane and take care of
ourselves and let them to their own aster they stand
or fall. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
It does? It makes total sense. Thriving in the Barren
Place is Paula's book. Let me get back to that question.
I asked you a little while ago. Now that it's
been you have twelve how long has it been since
you lost Matthew?
Speaker 1 (36:09):
This year will be thirteen years? This is the Yeah,
this is the this is the twelve to thirteen year mark.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Uh huh, So twelve years. You've been without him for
a bit longer than you were with him. And I
wonder if you look at that period of time with him,
which must have seemed endless, you know, the old adage
is even just raising children that you know, the days
seem endless and the years fly by. How do you
(36:38):
view that window of time, that twelve years with someone
who needed so much as Matthew did? And as you
look back on it, did it feel like a blink?
Or was that the painful slog you undoubtedly were feeling
as you were living through it.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
In retrospect, I refer to it now as the Matthew years,
you know, because I have to talk about it now
because my book, and I'm glad to do so. But
when I talk about the Matthew years, I do see
it as it was a precious season, because because I
(37:13):
had him, and God entrusted me with Matthew as a gift,
I have to see it that way. So Matthew was
the gift that he gave me. He entrusted Matthew to
my care, and because he knew that in his strength,
I could handle it, and he knew it would change me.
And so I see Matthew not as a burden but
(37:33):
as a gift. And those the days were so long,
and it was such a long haul, and it taught
me so much. What I hated about it was that
Matthew suffered the whole time, from the day that he
was born to the day that he died. He suffered,
(37:55):
and I could do something to help him, but I
couldn't solve the problem, and I had to watch helplessly
as he suffered and trusting him and us to our
heavenly Father. Now I see the time since then it
(38:18):
doesn't seem like. Somebody pointed that out to me a
few months ago that this year is like the turning
point year where he's been He was with me as
long as he's been gone, and this is sort of
the hinge on the door, and it doesn't feel like
(38:39):
it's been that long. And in some ways it feels
like an eternity since he's been gone, and others in
other ways that feels like a blink. But because the grieving,
the grieving process has been a long one.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And I'm sorry to interrupt, but that never ends. Just
so people understand, we have a couple of other friends
who've lost suddenly lost children too, and that's just never.
You can't that's that never ever. You never find a
place of peace with that, do.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
You well, not a place of peace, but it does change.
And when Matthew died, I went to a grief support,
a grief share at my church at the time. And
one of the things that was said to me that
was so helpful during that time it was said in
(39:32):
a video. And you know, people say all the time, oh,
give yourself time. Grief takes time. Grief takes time. I
wanted to know how long, how long. How long are
we talking about it? We talking like six months? Are
we talking a year? Are we talking six y? I mean,
how long are we talking? Grief takes time? What does
that mean? And somebody said, who had lost I believe
(39:54):
it was doctor Henry Cloud, who had also lost a son.
He said, when you're dealing with the loss of a child,
getting to a place of resolution takes ten years. That
floored me because I was like, ten years, really, I've
got that long. But he said, and I want to
(40:15):
say this to someone who is going through grief right now. Yes,
it's hard. Yes you feel like you're going nuts right now,
but I promise you're not, and it will change and
it will get better, And especially here at the holidays,
I want to just say a few things, just general
(40:37):
things about grief. Grief in itself is not linear. It's
not It doesn't just because it's been three years or
two years or nine years or whatever, that doesn't necessarily
mean that it's better or that you're not going to
feel it. It's not like, in fact, ye're one for me?
(41:00):
What it was terrible. It was just painful, but it
was also like was going through the whole process again,
but with anesthesia. Years two, probably up to four were
like going through with no anesthesia. It was actually worse.
And another thing that made it worse was because to
(41:21):
other people in the community or in the church community,
and sometimes even in the family, we're like, oh, that's
old news. You know, Matthew's agent history and it. And
I want to say that like, grief is not like
a bad case of the stomach flew where you know,
you get over it. You know, in a week or
(41:41):
so you're kind of over it and you're like, whoah,
that's done. It's more like an amputation. Because you've lost
a part of yourself. Life will never be the same again,
and going forward, you have to do life differently, the
(42:03):
same as you would have to do You would have
to learn life differently if you had lost a leg
or an arm. You have to learn how to do
it differently. And just as if there was an accident
or a war injury or something and a person lost
a limb, there would be all kinds of therapists and
(42:26):
medical professionals involved in helping the person to learn how
to do life differently. And the same is true needs
to be true in the grief and lost process.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Paul I have one left and I don't want to
miss out on this question, which is you often hear
people who go through things like this say why why Matthew?
Why did he go through this? Why was he ever
allowed to be born like this? Wouldn't you rather him
have not been born? Why did you have to go
through this? As a Christian? The why is often so
often what we hear is Christians when people struggle or
(43:00):
goes through tragedy, and you say, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
I don't know, and I don't need to know because
I and I don't mean it as a crutch or
as a cop out. I know whom I've believed, I
know who my faith is in. I know who is
in control of this messed up world, who stands above
(43:26):
and beyond it all. I know that, and I don't
have to know.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Do you think someday you will do? I?
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yes, I will. I probably will know in heaven and
I won't and I won't care.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
But is that where I ask you this, is that
where Matthew is, there's Matthew there. Will you see him there?
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yes? Yes, yes, I have. Scripture tells us this that
you know that to be absent from the body is
to be present with the Lord, and I know exactly
where Matthew is. I don't have to worry about that.
And that is our blessed hope. It's our true and
living hope. And that's why Christians go through grief differently.
(44:14):
We go through grief knowing that we will see our
loved one again. We go through it knowing that there
is there is hope. We will see our loved one again,
healed and hole in God's presence, we will join them.
It's not just pie in the sky and the sweet
by and bye to make ourselves feel better. It is
as true as you and me sitting.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Here, Paula. This book, I think is so important to
people who are battling. I just I'm so thrilled you
wrote it. I know people will benefit from it, particularly
if they're raw and they're hurting, and even if you
know they've had a few years under their belt. This
is a great teaching tool and a help and it's
called Thriving in the Barren Place. Best place to get it.
(44:56):
People can go online and get it right, Yes.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Son Ama, Yes, and I'll provide the Amazon link.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Paul I'm so grateful for your wisdom. I think I
can say thank you, and I know you're thankful actually
in many ways that you went through this. It's really
a remarkable thing and you were great to share your
story with everyone. Thank you so much, my friend, and
I wish you and your family a very merry Christmas.
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Thank you. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.
What a great opportunity you've presented. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
So that's a wrap for another Christa Gall Show podcast.
Thanks for committing to it, listening to it all the
way through. You're a fighter. I like that about you.
Hope you'll leave it a five star review and a
written review. Apple Podcasts, Spotify. We'll see you next time
here on the Christa Gall Show Podcast. They're Chris to
Gall Show Podcast
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