October 21, 2025 • 35 mins
In 2011, Virginia Roberts Giuffre became known as the most outspoken victim of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Her campaigning against their abuse and trafficking helped to get justice for many women, but she was perhaps best known for a now-infamous photograph, taken when she was aged just 17, meeting with Prince Andrew. She claimed it was taken prior to one of three times she was forced to have sex with the King's brother. Encounters he vehemently denies took place but which have led to his public downfall, with Prince Andrew reportedly paying around £12 million to Roberts Giuffre, formally ending a civil case brought against him in the US without admitting liability. Earlier this year, Virginia took her own life. Before she died, she wrote a memoir, determined for the world to finally hear her story in her own words. In this episode of The Fourcast, Jackie Long speaks to Virginia’s brother and sister-in-law, Sky and Amanda Roberts, about the woman behind the headlines, the legacy she leaves, and the campaigning she wanted to be remembered for. They also express their frustration with the Metropolitan Police response - but the Met reiterated to Channel 4 News today that they do not consider themselves the appropriate authority to investigate alleged crimes in the UK related to the Jeffrey Epstein case.This episode includes conversation around suicide and abuse.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
They were just girls and they were begging the world to
believe them and fight for them.She just continued to read it,
like what is it going to take for people to finally believe
me? And by continuously being gas
lit by the UK government, the UKMetropolitan Police, the US
government, here, her mind took a very large toll.
(00:20):
Virginia did first speak to the Metropolitan Police in London as
far back as May 2015. They decided not to continue
with any investigation. They reviewed that again in
2019, deciding again not to investigate.
Is it time for them to review those decisions?
100% what else does it have to take?
(00:42):
I think the cost of proof is toohigh for these survivors.
Hello and welcome to the forecast.
In 2011, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey became known as the most
outspoken victim of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
Her campaigning against their abuse and trafficking helped to
get justice for many women. But she was perhaps best known
(01:05):
for a now infamous photograph taken when she was aged just 17.
Meeting with Prince Andrew. She claimed it was taken prior
to one of three times she was forced to have sex with the
King's brother. There were encounters he denies
took place but which have led tohis public downfall, with Prince
Andrew reportedly paying around £12 million to Virginia Giuffre,
(01:28):
formally ending a civil case brought against him in the US
earlier this year, Virginia tookher own life before she died.
She wrote a memoir and made it clear that she wanted the world
to read it. Today I'm joined by her brother
and sister-in-law, Sky and Amanda Roberts, to talk about
the woman behind the headlines, the legacy she leaves, and the
(01:48):
story that she wanted to tell inher own words.
Can I just begin by asking you, Sky?
I'm imagining it is a bittersweet moment.
Virginia's story will be published tomorrow.
Finally, in her own words, the whole story.
But she's not here. That must be quite difficult for
you. Yeah, I think it's, you know,
(02:12):
the best way to put it is over the last couple of weeks, we've
had a lot of happy tears and a lot of sad tears because we've
had many moments where she's been vindicated because of her
ability to tell her story. And I think people are finally
realizing the magnitude of what she was able to accomplish
during her time here. And, you know, we're sort of
(02:34):
left in place here on the advocacy piece.
And a lot of people like, well, why are you guys coming forward
now? And the truth is, is that, you
know, she always wanted to protect us from these.
I remember her so clearly saying, like, I never want this
evil to touch you or anyone in this world.
So it is really, really difficult to come forward.
But she would be, she'd be really proud of this moment.
(02:55):
It's a very vindicating moment for her.
I was going to ask you about exactly that.
I have heard you speak really movingly about how much Virginia
tried to protect you as her younger brother.
There are clearly some really difficult details in the book
that she feared she would die asa sex slave at the hands of
(03:16):
Epstein. I mean, are there things that
you have had to read that you have had to face for the first
time? I think we knew a lot of the
information that was going to come out.
She was very transparent with usabout sort of some of the
intimate details that were goingto be in there.
However, it's very different when you read it on a page.
(03:37):
I think, you know, growing up, Ihad known there were threats in
my life, at least specifically from Epstein and Maxwell.
That's something that she had shared with me.
But it's just very different when it jumps out at you on the
page. And, you know, I want to be
clear, like it's, it's crazy, 'cause you can hear her voice in
that book like I can, I can readthe pages and I just feel like I
can hear her in there. And I want to commend, you know,
(03:58):
Amy Wallace and the, the, you know, Penguin Random House for
coming out because the truth is like it's, it's, it's really
hard read, but I think it's veryimpactful.
She suffered a great deal throughout her life, that is
clear. One of the things that has
struck me endlessly about this story is there's so much talk
about how rich Jeffrey Epstein was, all his friends, the
(04:21):
private planes, the private island, the fancy houses.
It's a world that you know, all for connotations of glamour in
this context, all details that hide the brutal reality of what
was happening to Virginia and the other girls.
But your sister's book will expose this all for what it was,
(04:41):
which was exploitation, violence, sexual violence.
I think that is why this book isso important for a read.
We get caught up in the salaciousness of of survivors
naming names and what this book does, it really makes you take a
(05:02):
step back and peek through the eyes of a vulnerable young girl,
young child, teenager, what thisworld was like.
And it really does address that,right?
Because so many people critiquedthese girls for saying, you
know, they could have just left and and, you know, they received
money. So and, and it was lavish and
(05:24):
that salaciousness of it, but itwas abuse, It was coercive
control, it was intimidation, itwas threats to their lives.
It was a violent. And I think it like brings back
the humanity, especially if you're a parent, this could
happen to your own child, you know, and you really see that.
You really see that, like this is the girl next door and it
(05:48):
could have been my neighbor, it could be my child, it could be a
family member. And it really just brings you
back to that that shock and thathumanity and it makes you want
to act. It makes you want to fight.
For that little girl. Who was begging?
The world to stand up for her. They were just girls and they
(06:09):
were begging the world to believe them and fight for them.
And I think that's what's so powerful about this book,
because you really see that little girl begging for that
healing and that justice. And you absolutely get the sense
that she was begging for accountability for people to
take responsibility. And not only do the individuals
(06:33):
fail to take responsibility, butthe organisations, the
structures around them, in too many instances didn't force
anyone to take responsibility. Yeah, I think that's another
thing that it does. And I think with this Jeffrey
Epstein, Dillane Maxwell case and why it's so strong and why
(06:54):
people. Care.
About this case so much, it's, it's not just about the abuse of
children, which is heinous, but it also shows the exposure of
systems that have said for far too long, there is one set of
laws for the rich and powerful, and then there is another set of
laws for those who aren't. And, and it makes people angry
(07:18):
because it's gone on for decades.
And it really is that exposure of the abuse of power of, of the
abuse of the rich and powerful, the lengths that they went to
intimidate these girls, to discredit them, to defame them,
threatening their lives. It makes you angry as a person
because it's like that. That could have been my child.
(07:40):
And why are we allowing these systems to exist?
We have to do better. We have to go after legislation
and we have to expose those who have been abusing their
positions for far too long. Alongside the work that both of
you are doing, the book is the sort of posthumous continuation
of that fight for accountability.
Now, obviously, we got the announcement last week that
(08:02):
Prince Andrew has voluntarily agreed to give up his royal
titles. Is this in your view enough, or
should this actually be the beginning of a new process to
look at again at his involvementwith Epstein?
Yeah, really happy you asked that, because I think what the
book is is it's more of it. And I think what happened with
Prince Andrew wasn't, it's not justice, it's acknowledgement.
(08:25):
It's saying something could havehappened here.
And they're kind of starting to take some sort of action to that
now. You know, he didn't do himself
any favors by any means, especially with, you know,
commenting in 2018 that, you know, he had ceased contact.
And then in 2011, we've got thisset of emails that are released
(08:47):
that essentially say we'll play again soon and we're in this
together, right? So do I think it's enough?
No, absolutely not. I think we have a lot of work to
do. I can hear my sister saying that
she she would not stop here. So I would say it's not justice,
it's acknowledgement. And we need to be able to
separate those two things because there is more work to do
and there's more people that arecomplicit here, not just Prince
(09:08):
Andrew, but so many others that we need to be held to account.
And I want to ask you a couple of things about about potential
justice, potential, more potential accountability.
First of all, though, if you don't mind, he has voluntarily
given up these titles. They he wasn't forced, although
(09:29):
there's discussions in the background reports that the king
did try to force his hand. Should the king strip him of the
title of Prince, do you think? I think yes, I think again,
it's, it's just, it's not enough.
I think survivors have been living in the shadows with this
(09:49):
trauma that has happened to them.
They haven't been able to heal for so long.
When do we actually start to seerepercussions that that really
affect him? I think that we can go further.
That would be something that we would ask because that title,
and and this is the thing that struck Virginia so much, is the
(10:10):
title of a Prince. There's a certain expectation
when you meet a Prince that thatthey are of this esteem, that
they are gentlemen. And and that specific feeling
for her was such a let down. It's just like, oh, a Prince
could do this too. And so, yes, I do think that we
need to go further. I think, you know, the royal
(10:33):
family needs to really go further on this and there should
be more repercussions for his actions.
There's a really ongoing debate here now around those people who
feel that more needs to be done.There's a discussion now about
whether the British Parliament could change the law so it would
(10:54):
make it easier for the King to formally remove the titles that
Andrew has only voluntarily agreed not to use.
But senior members of our government are saying this is
not an issue for Parliament. We would be led by the monarchy.
Is that disappointing to you? Yes, I mean, I think anytime you
you put obstacles in place that would essentially be able to
(11:16):
bring people to justice, that isabsolutely unfortunate.
It's a it's a disjustice to the people of the UK.
It's a disjustice to survivors out there of Jeffrey Epstein,
Glen Maxwell, amongst many others.
So yes, I would say it's very disappointing that any form of
government, including the US, wehave our own work to do here,
(11:39):
would put any obstacles in placeto bring any of these men,
women, powerful figures to account.
It has emerged that the Metropolitan Police here are now
looking into these claims. I know you've heard them, that
Prince Andrew asked his police protection officer to try to
uncover information about Virginia.
What did you think when you heard this?
(12:01):
I think, again, it's just further vindication for
Virginia. Why would you need to go through
those links first of all, if you're not guilty?
That that's the one thing that like, struck me.
And then it also reaffirms like the difficulties that these
survivors were coming up against, that they're willing to
(12:21):
use their power to like, intimidate them and, and go
after them and, and defame them and find ways to discredit them.
And like, how egregious is that?Especially a Prince to do
something like that and abuse his power and position to get
essentially someone to try to discredit a child.
(12:43):
She was a child at the time, so that it wasn't so much a shock,
to be quite honest. I think, you know, Virginia had
been saying it for so long that people had tried to intimidate
her and try to threaten her. So it wasn't much of A shock.
Again, it felt like a vindication of this is exactly
(13:03):
what she's been screaming for decades, and now we're finally
seeing the truth surface. And it's interesting the lengths
that the the Prince appeared to go to managed to get her Social
Security number, to ask his close protection officer to
gather information about Virginia.
All of this about a young woman he would later say he had no
recollection of ever meeting. Yeah.
(13:24):
I mean, I would say it further vindicates her.
I mean, she, I remember an interview where she said, you
know, he's saying one thing, I'msaying this and only one of us
is telling the truth. And that person is me.
And I think that is that's a very powerful statement now
because his actions are speakinglouder than words.
And she would be coming forward fully vindicated right now
(13:47):
saying, do you see? I told you the entire time and
now the world is starting to believe because, you know,
there's this slow trickle of information including, you know,
what you had just stated about obtaining.
I mean, why would you want to obtain somebody's Social
Security or, or, you know, information if they're, if they,
if in one way shape or form you weren't potentially complicit?
(14:08):
I mean, it's difficult for you, I know because in a way you're
fighting on 2/2 continents, aren't you?
You, you have your battles at home.
And also here in terms of we know now that the Met Police are
investigating this idea that he asked his personal protection
officer to investigate Virginia,as far as we can see.
(14:30):
Do you have confidence in the Met Police to do this properly?
I don't live in the UKI can't say that I know their everyday
workings. What I can say is that this is
this is a global cover up and abuse of systematic power that
we've seen over and over. I know that currently, right
now, we're extremely let down byour own government, and they
(14:55):
have the key to a lot of information.
What I what I feel is happening right now is so much evidence,
and this is just one fraction ofit, but it's inescapable.
And the people are putting the pressure on their local
governments to do the right thing and further investigate.
(15:17):
So I don't know that I have fulltrust in government and I know
there are some really great police officers and detectives
there that want to do the right thing.
But I feel where our trust really lies is in the people and
our voice and our ability to putthem in the positions to do
their jobs and to do the right thing and protect our
(15:39):
vulnerable. So that that's really where I
feel our trust lies and their actions will put the faith back.
People will have more faith in them if they do decide to do
this and really investigate. And, and just on that point of
investigation, I absolutely takewhat you're saying about
understanding how we operate. But just you'll know of course,
(16:03):
that Virginia did first speak tothe Metropolitan Police in
London as far back as May 2015. They decided not to continue
with any investigation. They reviewed that again in
2019, deciding again not to investigate.
Another complaint comes forward in 2021.
They decide not to investigate. That year our program handed
(16:25):
them Virginia civil claim. They decided not to investigate.
Is it time for them to review those decisions, do you think?
100% What else does it have to take?
I think the cost of proof is toohigh for these survivors and
we've seen that over and over again.
What else will it take for you to actually stand up and do the
(16:47):
right thing? Now is the time, This is the
opportunity to say that we are going to make a change and all
of our governments that we're going to operate the way that we
are intended to operate and we're going to protect those
that deserve to be protected. And it doesn't matter who is
being implicated. There is no separate law for
those in power. And this is it's beyond time.
(17:11):
Let's do the right thing. And, and if the Metropolitan
Police don't investigate or, or,or review their decisions, there
is a police, a police watchdog here, do you think they must
step in and say to the Met, we're going to look at those
decisions you took in the light of what is coming forward now?
Absolutely. I think it's very similar to
(17:31):
what's happening here in the US.The Department of Justice
decided that there was no credible information when we
know that that's far from the truth.
And then our House of Representatives in our Senate
decided to take it a step further and subpoena documents.
And so every branch of government needs to take this
(17:53):
seriously. If one door closes and you have
the opportunity to reopen that door, you should take it upon
yourself to do that. And Sky, can I ask you,
Virginia's story, like the storyof so many abuse victims, is
littered with being gas lit by individuals who don't take
responsibility, by the organisations that don't force
(18:15):
them to take accountability. How hard was that for Virginia
to go to the Met Police say herein the UK and constantly have
them say we're not going to investigate.
Do you think that did take a toll on her?
I do. I think she, you know, she gives
(18:35):
this such strong appearance on camera, but we got to know her
behind closed doors. Obviously, we're her family,
right? And so she would, you know, I
guess she just continued to readit.
Like, what is it going to take for people to finally believe
me? Like, what do I have to do to
show that I'm a truth teller? And by continuously being gas
lit by the UK government, the UKMetropolitan Police, the US
(19:01):
government here, I mean, she wasincredibly hurt by the
sweetheart deal that Jeffrey Epstein was given by Alex
Acosta. I mean, it was a kick.
It was just a kick in the stomach to her that every single
time you feel like you would getto that point of justice or I'm
doing the right thing, somebody from the side would come in and
essentially dismiss her or dismiss her claims.
(19:22):
And now to what Amanda was saying too.
Now the the public is coming forward and saying no, there's
just too much substantial evidence here.
Every document leak, every e-mail leak, it stinks of a
cover up. And I think it's time that we
get back and use our voices for good.
And our government needs to remind themselves they work for
us. They don't work and it's not the
(19:44):
other way around. So we need to give them a stark
reminder that you know it's timeto do the right thing.
And I know this is difficult, but watching her get knocked
back after knocked back, what doyou think that did to her
personally? I think it's the story of a lot
of survivors out there that theyconstantly feel like they're
getting these wins, these littlewins, and then there's just this
(20:06):
big knock from the side. I mean, we can tell you that we
feel it in advocacy a lot of times where we feel like.
You get these little wins, theselittle knocks, right?
But then like, what are we actually doing about it?
Like, so I think what we need tostart doing and what she would
be requesting, what she was always her question requesting
was we're tired of talking aboutit.
The survivors are tired of just having to talk about it.
(20:27):
We have to take some sort of action here.
Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
And so, you know, I think it took in a tremendous toll on her
through time. I will say during the last
couple weeks of her life, I was with her.
She was really proud. She was really proud of her
survivor sister. She was really proud of what she
was able to accomplish, accomplish with Glenn Maxwell
(20:50):
and Jeffrey Epstein. This book was really to to kind
of, I wouldn't say close a chapter, but reopen a chapter to
where we can really start askingourselves some questions.
And I do think, again, it's a vindicating moment for her.
There's a whole different story to tell on her own personal life
that maybe took a larger toll onher towards the end.
But certainly this took a toll on her throughout the many
(21:12):
years. And I hope her kids can see
their mom for what she truly is,which is an international and an
American hero. And that pride she felt in those
last weeks, did you get any sense that it was in any way it
was outweighed by the toll that everything else had taken on
her? I mean, with reading this book,
(21:35):
you'll see clearly the story of her survivor, a story of a
victim really to begin with, that goes into a survivor, her
body and took a tremendous toll through the years from the
people that had abused her. I mean, this wasn't just like
this was like very heinous acts.This was very aggressive acts
(21:58):
that these men were, were doing to her.
I mean, it was, it was, it's, it's very raw in there when you
read it because it's not just, Idon't know, it's, it's, it's not
sensational at any point. It just becomes something that
that you just feel tremendously hurt by.
And so I do think her body took and her mind took a very large
(22:18):
toll through the years, but she had a lot of personal tolls in
her personal life towards the end there that I think led to
the ultimate decision of her taking her life.
Just in terms of, as you say, the people coming out to show
their support to say enough is enough here and to, to look for
(22:41):
more action. Obviously the, the, the move
with, with Prince Andrew and histitles is one step of, of
accountability. And I know that you're you're
pleased that that's happened. We've got evidence from court
papers that show lawyers sent a letter to Prince Andrew asking
him to Co operate. The letter was FedEx to
(23:03):
Buckingham Palace. The Palace refused delivery.
Do they owe you? Do they owe Virginia's legacy in
terms of doing more now because of that?
Absolutely. I think they owe answers.
At the very least. I think they owe not just
Virginia, but but the UK people,they owe that.
(23:27):
These are people that they essentially look up to.
They are supposed to be a represented representation of of
truth and trust. And I think they owe that moment
to sit down and be questions andand answer the questions that
have been asked of them for decades.
(23:48):
They owe Virginia that for sure,and they owe their people that.
So would you like to see the king or the palace put pressure
on Prince Andrew, who always said he would answer questions
about what he knew, but he neverhas.
So would you like to see more pressure exerted him on him to
do that? Absolutely.
(24:09):
I just don't think that this canbe avoidable anymore.
There's just too much coming outand I think it's beyond time.
We can't continue to let this hide in the shadows and, and
everyone is being put in that corner of having our own
government is, is avoiding having to answer questions and
(24:30):
people are tired of it. And so it is time.
I, I would hope that he would pressure his brother to do the
right thing. I think he's already putting him
in a position of pressure where he's had to relinquish his
titles. I think there needs to be more
for sure. And can I ask, I mean, in many
ways that you sort of allude to this fact that at least the
(24:51):
Prince moving to to step down away from raw life some years
ago, stopping using these titlesis some accountability for
Virginia. What hope of that is there for
you at home? It's what we're fighting for
every single day. I hope that our government
(25:14):
remembers, like Sky said earlier, that they work for us
and not the other way around. We have to look back to the
foundation of our government andseparation of powers.
And, and we're calling on our representatives to do the right
thing. You're you're an elected
official. And so there is hope that they
can come back to their roots andacknowledge and recognize what
(25:37):
they swore to do. And that was to protect their
people. And so we're going to keep
pushing until that happens, whatever that takes, we're going
to keep pushing for it because it is the right thing to do.
And it's beyond time. And the US government has the
power to do this. We know they do.
And we're going to continue to hold them accountable.
(26:00):
And what does accountability in the US look like?
What exactly is it that you needto see?
I would say for me, it would be getting these documents
released. It's important to note that and
I've heard the argument, while they've released 33,000
documents, that's 1% of the total documentation that's been
(26:21):
provided. I know it for a fact because my
sister gave them a lot of that documentation and they still
have it and to come and say, Oh,well, no, no, no, we there's
nothing really to see in here. After they ran their campaign on
the fact that they would releasethe documents is kind of a slap
in the face. And So what real accountability
here is first getting all all documents released, allowing the
(26:45):
redactions of the names for people, specifically survivors,
and then the unredaction of names for anybody that could be
complicit. And then what we need to do from
there, We got to take these in steps, right?
So first step, release the documents.
Second step, we need to take it up.
We need to get further and fullyinvestigate anybody that was on
the flights in the logs, there is a movement of money, video
(27:08):
evidence of you potentially being in that room.
I guarantee you there's video evidence of them being people
being in those rooms and we needto hold them to the fullest
extent of the law. Whether that's, you know,
there's a lot of there's a lot of talk around statue of
limitations, what that looks like.
But nobody, nobody should be above the law here in the sense
that if you committed any type of heinous acts against these
(27:33):
these girls at the time, you need to be held accountable.
You should be behind bars. You should be with Ghilane
Maxwell in a maximum security prison, mind you, not a minimum
security prison and and held accountable.
We want we want to see every single person that was complicit
in this sex trafficking ring held to account.
Just very briefly, when you talkabout flights and flight logs,
(27:54):
we know that flights went in andout of the UK, not just in
London. Would you like to see those
flights fully investigated? Yes, I think this, we've kind of
alluded to this, but this is international and this is, this
is not just the US, this is not just the UK.
This is an international investigation that needs to take
(28:14):
place. And if the UK say is
safeguarding any type of information that could be
valuable to the public, to the FBI, which I think they probably
already have, then, you know, then shame, shame on our
government, shame on our government for safeguarding and,
and being pedo protectors. Like this is, you know, I think
this has been going on for far too long.
(28:36):
And the fact that it's taken this long to even really start
this conversation, it's a bit ofis an injustice to the
survivors, but be very, very mindful that we will not stop
until justice is served. My sister was very clear about
that. That rings in our head every day
as we come forward publicly. That rings in every survivor's
head every day. Because again, it's and this is
(28:57):
a common theme, but it's the right thing to do.
A couple more very, very briefly, if you would.
I mean, what is your message to President Trump on this?
Remember that you were elected for this position, that your
constituents who voted for you, your constituents who didn't
vote for you, you serve every single one of them.
(29:19):
This is not a party issue. It's not a political toy that
you or your minute administration can dangle.
I think we've all reached a point across every single aisle
where we are asking this of you.You promised from the very
(29:39):
beginning of your campaign and even your last presidency that
you would be a president that was going to drain the the
swamp, that was going to uncovercorruption.
This is one of the biggest casesof corruption, and we're asking
you to do the right thing. Will you hold to your promise?
(29:59):
And can I just ask, I know you said you'll keep fighting.
Your sister fought for such a long time.
The cost to you is already enormous in losing your sister.
How do you feel about continuingthat fight, potentially for
years going forward? My sister fought not want to be
(30:26):
careful, not careful. I want to be very clear here
that the reason she fought is very at a very human level.
It's very simple. When she held her baby girl for
the first time and she knew thiscould never happen again to her
daughter, to your daughters, to your sisters, and she knew this
(30:48):
could never happen again. And I think we hold very true on
that principle as well. I think a lot of these
survivors, their daughters are reaching those ages where this
happened to them. And I just, you know, this
Amanda said it's the biggest international cover up in the
history of the world. It's a sex trafficking ring that
essentially went on for decades without any account to any of
(31:12):
these men, really any investigation, as you've alluded
to as well. And so we won't stop until
justice is served because I mean, one, she protected me when
I was a kid. She's protecting your daughters
when she came out and her own daughter, my daughter, I, I
just, I don't see, it's just such a foundation, human level
(31:33):
is the reason that we're doing this, the reason that we're
advocating. And you know, I love my sister
dearly and I hope, I hope she's proud.
I'm just going to say you can hear how proud you are of her
she has become. She became such a public figure.
How do you remember her? Privately as a family, as a
(31:54):
sister, As a sister-in-law? I remember.
Her as joy. In spite of everything that she
had gone through in her life, she still had this capacity for
joy and love in her life. I remember her as cheeky and
funny and lighting up the room as soon as she came in and she
(32:17):
had the ability to just, she wasjust amazing.
There is no one like her that will never be anyone like her,
and we'll just continue to keep her voice alive.
Sky, would you like to add anything to that?
You don't have to, but if you want to.
(32:41):
I think Amanda said it great. I think she was just light.
She was joy. She's my big sister.
She, you know, we didn't sit around the family table talking
about ABS seated Maxwell. We we enjoyed time with each
other. We got to, you know, to to talk
about our kids and talk about her kids and, you know, I want I
(33:01):
hope the world knows like she was such a normal person.
I mean, I think you're going to get that across in the book too,
where she really kind of leads you through this.
This is this is who she was, right?
She's like she recognizes that points in the book.
It's one of my favorites is where like I know this is hard.
Let's take a moment to breathe. Let's let's stop for a moment.
Let's go shopping, right. Like that was her.
(33:23):
She could she always wanted to find the best in the world.
I mean, even to some of her detriment, to be honest, She
always wanted to see the good inpeople and not and not the hurt,
right. She wanted to teach her daughter
that there was good in this world.
It wasn't all evil, even though there are evil men that do evil
things to you. And so, you know, I hope people
feel that from her, that like motherhood, that love, that
(33:45):
compassion that you don't alwaysfind in somebody that has had
the things done to her. That, that that happened with
Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell and so many other people
that are still walking free today.
So she's just, she's such a beautiful human being.
And I and I, again, I'm so excited the world gets an
opportunity to read her book because I think they're going to
(34:06):
see that. You clearly miss her very much.
Every day. Every day, yeah.
It's, it's just surreal not having her here.
She should be sitting here talking to you.
It's such a win for her in so many ways, but it's such a loss
to us and to the world. But again, I'm glad people get a
(34:32):
chance to read who she was. You don't always, you know, I
think Amanda said it's like sucha gift sometimes because it's
not everyday that somebody in your life passes and you get an
opportunity to really hear what they felt and, and how they felt
about you. And I.
And I think that comes across a lot in the book.
And I felt a lot of love from that book.
(34:57):
Sky and Amanda Roberts, thank you very much for talking to us
today. Thank you.
That's it for this episode of The Forecast.
Until next time, goodbye.
They were just girls and they were begging the world to
believe them and fight for them.She just continued to read it,
like what is it going to take for people to finally believe
me? And by continuously being gas
lit by the UK government, the UKMetropolitan Police, the US
government, here, her mind took a very large toll.
(00:20):
Virginia did first speak to the Metropolitan Police in London as
far back as May 2015. They decided not to continue
with any investigation. They reviewed that again in
2019, deciding again not to investigate.
Is it time for them to review those decisions?
100% what else does it have to take?
(00:42):
I think the cost of proof is toohigh for these survivors.
Hello and welcome to the forecast.
In 2011, Virginia Roberts Jeffrey became known as the most
outspoken victim of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell.
Her campaigning against their abuse and trafficking helped to
get justice for many women. But she was perhaps best known
(01:05):
for a now infamous photograph taken when she was aged just 17.
Meeting with Prince Andrew. She claimed it was taken prior
to one of three times she was forced to have sex with the
King's brother. There were encounters he denies
took place but which have led tohis public downfall, with Prince
Andrew reportedly paying around £12 million to Virginia Giuffre,
(01:28):
formally ending a civil case brought against him in the US
earlier this year, Virginia tookher own life before she died.
She wrote a memoir and made it clear that she wanted the world
to read it. Today I'm joined by her brother
and sister-in-law, Sky and Amanda Roberts, to talk about
the woman behind the headlines, the legacy she leaves, and the
(01:48):
story that she wanted to tell inher own words.
Can I just begin by asking you, Sky?
I'm imagining it is a bittersweet moment.
Virginia's story will be published tomorrow.
Finally, in her own words, the whole story.
But she's not here. That must be quite difficult for
you. Yeah, I think it's, you know,
(02:12):
the best way to put it is over the last couple of weeks, we've
had a lot of happy tears and a lot of sad tears because we've
had many moments where she's been vindicated because of her
ability to tell her story. And I think people are finally
realizing the magnitude of what she was able to accomplish
during her time here. And, you know, we're sort of
(02:34):
left in place here on the advocacy piece.
And a lot of people like, well, why are you guys coming forward
now? And the truth is, is that, you
know, she always wanted to protect us from these.
I remember her so clearly saying, like, I never want this
evil to touch you or anyone in this world.
So it is really, really difficult to come forward.
But she would be, she'd be really proud of this moment.
(02:55):
It's a very vindicating moment for her.
I was going to ask you about exactly that.
I have heard you speak really movingly about how much Virginia
tried to protect you as her younger brother.
There are clearly some really difficult details in the book
that she feared she would die asa sex slave at the hands of
(03:16):
Epstein. I mean, are there things that
you have had to read that you have had to face for the first
time? I think we knew a lot of the
information that was going to come out.
She was very transparent with usabout sort of some of the
intimate details that were goingto be in there.
However, it's very different when you read it on a page.
(03:37):
I think, you know, growing up, Ihad known there were threats in
my life, at least specifically from Epstein and Maxwell.
That's something that she had shared with me.
But it's just very different when it jumps out at you on the
page. And, you know, I want to be
clear, like it's, it's crazy, 'cause you can hear her voice in
that book like I can, I can readthe pages and I just feel like I
can hear her in there. And I want to commend, you know,
(03:58):
Amy Wallace and the, the, you know, Penguin Random House for
coming out because the truth is like it's, it's, it's really
hard read, but I think it's veryimpactful.
She suffered a great deal throughout her life, that is
clear. One of the things that has
struck me endlessly about this story is there's so much talk
about how rich Jeffrey Epstein was, all his friends, the
(04:21):
private planes, the private island, the fancy houses.
It's a world that you know, all for connotations of glamour in
this context, all details that hide the brutal reality of what
was happening to Virginia and the other girls.
But your sister's book will expose this all for what it was,
(04:41):
which was exploitation, violence, sexual violence.
I think that is why this book isso important for a read.
We get caught up in the salaciousness of of survivors
naming names and what this book does, it really makes you take a
(05:02):
step back and peek through the eyes of a vulnerable young girl,
young child, teenager, what thisworld was like.
And it really does address that,right?
Because so many people critiquedthese girls for saying, you
know, they could have just left and and, you know, they received
money. So and, and it was lavish and
(05:24):
that salaciousness of it, but itwas abuse, It was coercive
control, it was intimidation, itwas threats to their lives.
It was a violent. And I think it like brings back
the humanity, especially if you're a parent, this could
happen to your own child, you know, and you really see that.
You really see that, like this is the girl next door and it
(05:48):
could have been my neighbor, it could be my child, it could be a
family member. And it really just brings you
back to that that shock and thathumanity and it makes you want
to act. It makes you want to fight.
For that little girl. Who was begging?
The world to stand up for her. They were just girls and they
(06:09):
were begging the world to believe them and fight for them.
And I think that's what's so powerful about this book,
because you really see that little girl begging for that
healing and that justice. And you absolutely get the sense
that she was begging for accountability for people to
take responsibility. And not only do the individuals
(06:33):
fail to take responsibility, butthe organisations, the
structures around them, in too many instances didn't force
anyone to take responsibility. Yeah, I think that's another
thing that it does. And I think with this Jeffrey
Epstein, Dillane Maxwell case and why it's so strong and why
(06:54):
people. Care.
About this case so much, it's, it's not just about the abuse of
children, which is heinous, but it also shows the exposure of
systems that have said for far too long, there is one set of
laws for the rich and powerful, and then there is another set of
laws for those who aren't. And, and it makes people angry
(07:18):
because it's gone on for decades.
And it really is that exposure of the abuse of power of, of the
abuse of the rich and powerful, the lengths that they went to
intimidate these girls, to discredit them, to defame them,
threatening their lives. It makes you angry as a person
because it's like that. That could have been my child.
(07:40):
And why are we allowing these systems to exist?
We have to do better. We have to go after legislation
and we have to expose those who have been abusing their
positions for far too long. Alongside the work that both of
you are doing, the book is the sort of posthumous continuation
of that fight for accountability.
Now, obviously, we got the announcement last week that
(08:02):
Prince Andrew has voluntarily agreed to give up his royal
titles. Is this in your view enough, or
should this actually be the beginning of a new process to
look at again at his involvementwith Epstein?
Yeah, really happy you asked that, because I think what the
book is is it's more of it. And I think what happened with
Prince Andrew wasn't, it's not justice, it's acknowledgement.
(08:25):
It's saying something could havehappened here.
And they're kind of starting to take some sort of action to that
now. You know, he didn't do himself
any favors by any means, especially with, you know,
commenting in 2018 that, you know, he had ceased contact.
And then in 2011, we've got thisset of emails that are released
(08:47):
that essentially say we'll play again soon and we're in this
together, right? So do I think it's enough?
No, absolutely not. I think we have a lot of work to
do. I can hear my sister saying that
she she would not stop here. So I would say it's not justice,
it's acknowledgement. And we need to be able to
separate those two things because there is more work to do
and there's more people that arecomplicit here, not just Prince
(09:08):
Andrew, but so many others that we need to be held to account.
And I want to ask you a couple of things about about potential
justice, potential, more potential accountability.
First of all, though, if you don't mind, he has voluntarily
given up these titles. They he wasn't forced, although
(09:29):
there's discussions in the background reports that the king
did try to force his hand. Should the king strip him of the
title of Prince, do you think? I think yes, I think again,
it's, it's just, it's not enough.
I think survivors have been living in the shadows with this
(09:49):
trauma that has happened to them.
They haven't been able to heal for so long.
When do we actually start to seerepercussions that that really
affect him? I think that we can go further.
That would be something that we would ask because that title,
and and this is the thing that struck Virginia so much, is the
(10:10):
title of a Prince. There's a certain expectation
when you meet a Prince that thatthey are of this esteem, that
they are gentlemen. And and that specific feeling
for her was such a let down. It's just like, oh, a Prince
could do this too. And so, yes, I do think that we
need to go further. I think, you know, the royal
(10:33):
family needs to really go further on this and there should
be more repercussions for his actions.
There's a really ongoing debate here now around those people who
feel that more needs to be done.There's a discussion now about
whether the British Parliament could change the law so it would
(10:54):
make it easier for the King to formally remove the titles that
Andrew has only voluntarily agreed not to use.
But senior members of our government are saying this is
not an issue for Parliament. We would be led by the monarchy.
Is that disappointing to you? Yes, I mean, I think anytime you
you put obstacles in place that would essentially be able to
(11:16):
bring people to justice, that isabsolutely unfortunate.
It's a it's a disjustice to the people of the UK.
It's a disjustice to survivors out there of Jeffrey Epstein,
Glen Maxwell, amongst many others.
So yes, I would say it's very disappointing that any form of
government, including the US, wehave our own work to do here,
(11:39):
would put any obstacles in placeto bring any of these men,
women, powerful figures to account.
It has emerged that the Metropolitan Police here are now
looking into these claims. I know you've heard them, that
Prince Andrew asked his police protection officer to try to
uncover information about Virginia.
What did you think when you heard this?
(12:01):
I think, again, it's just further vindication for
Virginia. Why would you need to go through
those links first of all, if you're not guilty?
That that's the one thing that like, struck me.
And then it also reaffirms like the difficulties that these
survivors were coming up against, that they're willing to
(12:21):
use their power to like, intimidate them and, and go
after them and, and defame them and find ways to discredit them.
And like, how egregious is that?Especially a Prince to do
something like that and abuse his power and position to get
essentially someone to try to discredit a child.
(12:43):
She was a child at the time, so that it wasn't so much a shock,
to be quite honest. I think, you know, Virginia had
been saying it for so long that people had tried to intimidate
her and try to threaten her. So it wasn't much of A shock.
Again, it felt like a vindication of this is exactly
(13:03):
what she's been screaming for decades, and now we're finally
seeing the truth surface. And it's interesting the lengths
that the the Prince appeared to go to managed to get her Social
Security number, to ask his close protection officer to
gather information about Virginia.
All of this about a young woman he would later say he had no
recollection of ever meeting. Yeah.
(13:24):
I mean, I would say it further vindicates her.
I mean, she, I remember an interview where she said, you
know, he's saying one thing, I'msaying this and only one of us
is telling the truth. And that person is me.
And I think that is that's a very powerful statement now
because his actions are speakinglouder than words.
And she would be coming forward fully vindicated right now
(13:47):
saying, do you see? I told you the entire time and
now the world is starting to believe because, you know,
there's this slow trickle of information including, you know,
what you had just stated about obtaining.
I mean, why would you want to obtain somebody's Social
Security or, or, you know, information if they're, if they,
if in one way shape or form you weren't potentially complicit?
(14:08):
I mean, it's difficult for you, I know because in a way you're
fighting on 2/2 continents, aren't you?
You, you have your battles at home.
And also here in terms of we know now that the Met Police are
investigating this idea that he asked his personal protection
officer to investigate Virginia,as far as we can see.
(14:30):
Do you have confidence in the Met Police to do this properly?
I don't live in the UKI can't say that I know their everyday
workings. What I can say is that this is
this is a global cover up and abuse of systematic power that
we've seen over and over. I know that currently, right
now, we're extremely let down byour own government, and they
(14:55):
have the key to a lot of information.
What I what I feel is happening right now is so much evidence,
and this is just one fraction ofit, but it's inescapable.
And the people are putting the pressure on their local
governments to do the right thing and further investigate.
(15:17):
So I don't know that I have fulltrust in government and I know
there are some really great police officers and detectives
there that want to do the right thing.
But I feel where our trust really lies is in the people and
our voice and our ability to putthem in the positions to do
their jobs and to do the right thing and protect our
(15:39):
vulnerable. So that that's really where I
feel our trust lies and their actions will put the faith back.
People will have more faith in them if they do decide to do
this and really investigate. And, and just on that point of
investigation, I absolutely takewhat you're saying about
understanding how we operate. But just you'll know of course,
(16:03):
that Virginia did first speak tothe Metropolitan Police in
London as far back as May 2015. They decided not to continue
with any investigation. They reviewed that again in
2019, deciding again not to investigate.
Another complaint comes forward in 2021.
They decide not to investigate. That year our program handed
(16:25):
them Virginia civil claim. They decided not to investigate.
Is it time for them to review those decisions, do you think?
100% What else does it have to take?
I think the cost of proof is toohigh for these survivors and
we've seen that over and over again.
What else will it take for you to actually stand up and do the
(16:47):
right thing? Now is the time, This is the
opportunity to say that we are going to make a change and all
of our governments that we're going to operate the way that we
are intended to operate and we're going to protect those
that deserve to be protected. And it doesn't matter who is
being implicated. There is no separate law for
those in power. And this is it's beyond time.
(17:11):
Let's do the right thing. And, and if the Metropolitan
Police don't investigate or, or,or review their decisions, there
is a police, a police watchdog here, do you think they must
step in and say to the Met, we're going to look at those
decisions you took in the light of what is coming forward now?
Absolutely. I think it's very similar to
(17:31):
what's happening here in the US.The Department of Justice
decided that there was no credible information when we
know that that's far from the truth.
And then our House of Representatives in our Senate
decided to take it a step further and subpoena documents.
And so every branch of government needs to take this
(17:53):
seriously. If one door closes and you have
the opportunity to reopen that door, you should take it upon
yourself to do that. And Sky, can I ask you,
Virginia's story, like the storyof so many abuse victims, is
littered with being gas lit by individuals who don't take
responsibility, by the organisations that don't force
(18:15):
them to take accountability. How hard was that for Virginia
to go to the Met Police say herein the UK and constantly have
them say we're not going to investigate.
Do you think that did take a toll on her?
I do. I think she, you know, she gives
(18:35):
this such strong appearance on camera, but we got to know her
behind closed doors. Obviously, we're her family,
right? And so she would, you know, I
guess she just continued to readit.
Like, what is it going to take for people to finally believe
me? Like, what do I have to do to
show that I'm a truth teller? And by continuously being gas
lit by the UK government, the UKMetropolitan Police, the US
(19:01):
government here, I mean, she wasincredibly hurt by the
sweetheart deal that Jeffrey Epstein was given by Alex
Acosta. I mean, it was a kick.
It was just a kick in the stomach to her that every single
time you feel like you would getto that point of justice or I'm
doing the right thing, somebody from the side would come in and
essentially dismiss her or dismiss her claims.
(19:22):
And now to what Amanda was saying too.
Now the the public is coming forward and saying no, there's
just too much substantial evidence here.
Every document leak, every e-mail leak, it stinks of a
cover up. And I think it's time that we
get back and use our voices for good.
And our government needs to remind themselves they work for
us. They don't work and it's not the
(19:44):
other way around. So we need to give them a stark
reminder that you know it's timeto do the right thing.
And I know this is difficult, but watching her get knocked
back after knocked back, what doyou think that did to her
personally? I think it's the story of a lot
of survivors out there that theyconstantly feel like they're
getting these wins, these littlewins, and then there's just this
(20:06):
big knock from the side. I mean, we can tell you that we
feel it in advocacy a lot of times where we feel like.
You get these little wins, theselittle knocks, right?
But then like, what are we actually doing about it?
Like, so I think what we need tostart doing and what she would
be requesting, what she was always her question requesting
was we're tired of talking aboutit.
The survivors are tired of just having to talk about it.
(20:27):
We have to take some sort of action here.
Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words.
And so, you know, I think it took in a tremendous toll on her
through time. I will say during the last
couple weeks of her life, I was with her.
She was really proud. She was really proud of her
survivor sister. She was really proud of what she
was able to accomplish, accomplish with Glenn Maxwell
(20:50):
and Jeffrey Epstein. This book was really to to kind
of, I wouldn't say close a chapter, but reopen a chapter to
where we can really start askingourselves some questions.
And I do think, again, it's a vindicating moment for her.
There's a whole different story to tell on her own personal life
that maybe took a larger toll onher towards the end.
But certainly this took a toll on her throughout the many
(21:12):
years. And I hope her kids can see
their mom for what she truly is,which is an international and an
American hero. And that pride she felt in those
last weeks, did you get any sense that it was in any way it
was outweighed by the toll that everything else had taken on
her? I mean, with reading this book,
(21:35):
you'll see clearly the story of her survivor, a story of a
victim really to begin with, that goes into a survivor, her
body and took a tremendous toll through the years from the
people that had abused her. I mean, this wasn't just like
this was like very heinous acts.This was very aggressive acts
(21:58):
that these men were, were doing to her.
I mean, it was, it was, it's, it's very raw in there when you
read it because it's not just, Idon't know, it's, it's, it's not
sensational at any point. It just becomes something that
that you just feel tremendously hurt by.
And so I do think her body took and her mind took a very large
(22:18):
toll through the years, but she had a lot of personal tolls in
her personal life towards the end there that I think led to
the ultimate decision of her taking her life.
Just in terms of, as you say, the people coming out to show
their support to say enough is enough here and to, to look for
(22:41):
more action. Obviously the, the, the move
with, with Prince Andrew and histitles is one step of, of
accountability. And I know that you're you're
pleased that that's happened. We've got evidence from court
papers that show lawyers sent a letter to Prince Andrew asking
him to Co operate. The letter was FedEx to
(23:03):
Buckingham Palace. The Palace refused delivery.
Do they owe you? Do they owe Virginia's legacy in
terms of doing more now because of that?
Absolutely. I think they owe answers.
At the very least. I think they owe not just
Virginia, but but the UK people,they owe that.
(23:27):
These are people that they essentially look up to.
They are supposed to be a represented representation of of
truth and trust. And I think they owe that moment
to sit down and be questions andand answer the questions that
have been asked of them for decades.
(23:48):
They owe Virginia that for sure,and they owe their people that.
So would you like to see the king or the palace put pressure
on Prince Andrew, who always said he would answer questions
about what he knew, but he neverhas.
So would you like to see more pressure exerted him on him to
do that? Absolutely.
(24:09):
I just don't think that this canbe avoidable anymore.
There's just too much coming outand I think it's beyond time.
We can't continue to let this hide in the shadows and, and
everyone is being put in that corner of having our own
government is, is avoiding having to answer questions and
(24:30):
people are tired of it. And so it is time.
I, I would hope that he would pressure his brother to do the
right thing. I think he's already putting him
in a position of pressure where he's had to relinquish his
titles. I think there needs to be more
for sure. And can I ask, I mean, in many
ways that you sort of allude to this fact that at least the
(24:51):
Prince moving to to step down away from raw life some years
ago, stopping using these titlesis some accountability for
Virginia. What hope of that is there for
you at home? It's what we're fighting for
every single day. I hope that our government
(25:14):
remembers, like Sky said earlier, that they work for us
and not the other way around. We have to look back to the
foundation of our government andseparation of powers.
And, and we're calling on our representatives to do the right
thing. You're you're an elected
official. And so there is hope that they
can come back to their roots andacknowledge and recognize what
(25:37):
they swore to do. And that was to protect their
people. And so we're going to keep
pushing until that happens, whatever that takes, we're going
to keep pushing for it because it is the right thing to do.
And it's beyond time. And the US government has the
power to do this. We know they do.
And we're going to continue to hold them accountable.
(26:00):
And what does accountability in the US look like?
What exactly is it that you needto see?
I would say for me, it would be getting these documents
released. It's important to note that and
I've heard the argument, while they've released 33,000
documents, that's 1% of the total documentation that's been
(26:21):
provided. I know it for a fact because my
sister gave them a lot of that documentation and they still
have it and to come and say, Oh,well, no, no, no, we there's
nothing really to see in here. After they ran their campaign on
the fact that they would releasethe documents is kind of a slap
in the face. And So what real accountability
here is first getting all all documents released, allowing the
(26:45):
redactions of the names for people, specifically survivors,
and then the unredaction of names for anybody that could be
complicit. And then what we need to do from
there, We got to take these in steps, right?
So first step, release the documents.
Second step, we need to take it up.
We need to get further and fullyinvestigate anybody that was on
the flights in the logs, there is a movement of money, video
(27:08):
evidence of you potentially being in that room.
I guarantee you there's video evidence of them being people
being in those rooms and we needto hold them to the fullest
extent of the law. Whether that's, you know,
there's a lot of there's a lot of talk around statue of
limitations, what that looks like.
But nobody, nobody should be above the law here in the sense
that if you committed any type of heinous acts against these
(27:33):
these girls at the time, you need to be held accountable.
You should be behind bars. You should be with Ghilane
Maxwell in a maximum security prison, mind you, not a minimum
security prison and and held accountable.
We want we want to see every single person that was complicit
in this sex trafficking ring held to account.
Just very briefly, when you talkabout flights and flight logs,
(27:54):
we know that flights went in andout of the UK, not just in
London. Would you like to see those
flights fully investigated? Yes, I think this, we've kind of
alluded to this, but this is international and this is, this
is not just the US, this is not just the UK.
This is an international investigation that needs to take
(28:14):
place. And if the UK say is
safeguarding any type of information that could be
valuable to the public, to the FBI, which I think they probably
already have, then, you know, then shame, shame on our
government, shame on our government for safeguarding and,
and being pedo protectors. Like this is, you know, I think
this has been going on for far too long.
(28:36):
And the fact that it's taken this long to even really start
this conversation, it's a bit ofis an injustice to the
survivors, but be very, very mindful that we will not stop
until justice is served. My sister was very clear about
that. That rings in our head every day
as we come forward publicly. That rings in every survivor's
head every day. Because again, it's and this is
(28:57):
a common theme, but it's the right thing to do.
A couple more very, very briefly, if you would.
I mean, what is your message to President Trump on this?
Remember that you were elected for this position, that your
constituents who voted for you, your constituents who didn't
vote for you, you serve every single one of them.
(29:19):
This is not a party issue. It's not a political toy that
you or your minute administration can dangle.
I think we've all reached a point across every single aisle
where we are asking this of you.You promised from the very
(29:39):
beginning of your campaign and even your last presidency that
you would be a president that was going to drain the the
swamp, that was going to uncovercorruption.
This is one of the biggest casesof corruption, and we're asking
you to do the right thing. Will you hold to your promise?
(29:59):
And can I just ask, I know you said you'll keep fighting.
Your sister fought for such a long time.
The cost to you is already enormous in losing your sister.
How do you feel about continuingthat fight, potentially for
years going forward? My sister fought not want to be
(30:26):
careful, not careful. I want to be very clear here
that the reason she fought is very at a very human level.
It's very simple. When she held her baby girl for
the first time and she knew thiscould never happen again to her
daughter, to your daughters, to your sisters, and she knew this
(30:48):
could never happen again. And I think we hold very true on
that principle as well. I think a lot of these
survivors, their daughters are reaching those ages where this
happened to them. And I just, you know, this
Amanda said it's the biggest international cover up in the
history of the world. It's a sex trafficking ring that
essentially went on for decades without any account to any of
(31:12):
these men, really any investigation, as you've alluded
to as well. And so we won't stop until
justice is served because I mean, one, she protected me when
I was a kid. She's protecting your daughters
when she came out and her own daughter, my daughter, I, I
just, I don't see, it's just such a foundation, human level
(31:33):
is the reason that we're doing this, the reason that we're
advocating. And you know, I love my sister
dearly and I hope, I hope she's proud.
I'm just going to say you can hear how proud you are of her
she has become. She became such a public figure.
How do you remember her? Privately as a family, as a
(31:54):
sister, As a sister-in-law? I remember.
Her as joy. In spite of everything that she
had gone through in her life, she still had this capacity for
joy and love in her life. I remember her as cheeky and
funny and lighting up the room as soon as she came in and she
(32:17):
had the ability to just, she wasjust amazing.
There is no one like her that will never be anyone like her,
and we'll just continue to keep her voice alive.
Sky, would you like to add anything to that?
You don't have to, but if you want to.
(32:41):
I think Amanda said it great. I think she was just light.
She was joy. She's my big sister.
She, you know, we didn't sit around the family table talking
about ABS seated Maxwell. We we enjoyed time with each
other. We got to, you know, to to talk
about our kids and talk about her kids and, you know, I want I
(33:01):
hope the world knows like she was such a normal person.
I mean, I think you're going to get that across in the book too,
where she really kind of leads you through this.
This is this is who she was, right?
She's like she recognizes that points in the book.
It's one of my favorites is where like I know this is hard.
Let's take a moment to breathe. Let's let's stop for a moment.
Let's go shopping, right. Like that was her.
(33:23):
She could she always wanted to find the best in the world.
I mean, even to some of her detriment, to be honest, She
always wanted to see the good inpeople and not and not the hurt,
right. She wanted to teach her daughter
that there was good in this world.
It wasn't all evil, even though there are evil men that do evil
things to you. And so, you know, I hope people
feel that from her, that like motherhood, that love, that
(33:45):
compassion that you don't alwaysfind in somebody that has had
the things done to her. That, that that happened with
Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell and so many other people
that are still walking free today.
So she's just, she's such a beautiful human being.
And I and I, again, I'm so excited the world gets an
opportunity to read her book because I think they're going to
(34:06):
see that. You clearly miss her very much.
Every day. Every day, yeah.
It's, it's just surreal not having her here.
She should be sitting here talking to you.
It's such a win for her in so many ways, but it's such a loss
to us and to the world. But again, I'm glad people get a
(34:32):
chance to read who she was. You don't always, you know, I
think Amanda said it's like sucha gift sometimes because it's
not everyday that somebody in your life passes and you get an
opportunity to really hear what they felt and, and how they felt
about you. And I.
And I think that comes across a lot in the book.
And I felt a lot of love from that book.
(34:57):
Sky and Amanda Roberts, thank you very much for talking to us
today. Thank you.
That's it for this episode of The Forecast.
Until next time, goodbye.
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