Ep 137: Playful Practice, Running Barefoot, & Smart Tools w/ Martin Chuck

In this episode, Chris chats with Martin Chuck about his journey from junior golfer to top golf coach and innovator. Martin shares the importance of play and creativity in developing a better golf game, how the fundamentals of coaching have evolved, and why short game mastery is essential. We also dive into training aids he's developed such as the Smart Ball! A must-listen for golfers seeking a fresh perspective on improvement and enjoyment in the game. More from Martin: https://www.tourstriker.com/ For Martin: @martinchuckpga For Products: @tourstrikergolf

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the golf in his Bomb Squad.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm your host, Chris Finn, and today I have a
very special guest with me. If you have been living
under a rock, you probably don't know who he is.
But hopefully most of you are not living under rocks,
and you know who Martin Chuck is. He has taught
PJ Tour winners, Ryder Cup, President's Cup, Major champions.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
This guy's all over the place, one.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Of the most top ten in the war in the country,
which you might as well just call it the world
number one instructor in Arizona.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Martin Chuck, Welcome to the golf in is Bomb spot Man.
Excited to have you on.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Well, thank you, Chris, appreciate you having me on. It's
funny like hearing those accolades. Kind of crazy, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
I mean, you've been in the game for a while, man,
and you've been doing some pretty amazing things. And you know,
I think for me, it's always selfishly. I always joke
if any of you listening have heard me on with
other guests, this is all totally just for me, just
because I'm a golf nut. I love the game and
I get getting to have guys like you on is
just fun for me and I really love to hear

(01:07):
it's actually funny.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
You probably don't know this.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
You started your academy as the same year I started
Peter as golf. So as a just like fellow entrepreneurial
kind of starting your own thing, I would just love
And obviously for everybody who maybe doesn't know your story,
like how did it come about? And obviously it's been
almost fifteen years since you started doing it, like like,
what's the journey been?

Speaker 1 (01:29):
And you know, share with that a little bit about you.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
So so the journey for teaching, you know, I guess
it just goes back to Canada where I grew up
in Toronto. I had early influence from a couple of
great dudes, specifically Georgia Nudess and and so it's an
honor for me. And I'm fifty six years old now.
He passed away me as fifty one and a long

(01:51):
time ago in gosh, nineteen eighty nine and crazy. When
I was a young guy, my dad was a golf
or just a you know, weekend warrior enthusiast, and I
kind of got into it because of him going you know,
where's my dad going on? Weekends all of a sudden,
because you know, he's always usually home Saturdays, you know.
So there was this thing in the Toronto Star, George

(02:15):
Newtson Junior Clinic, Dawn Valley Golf Club. And I'd already
kind of been bitten by the bug by then, and
I'd taken a couple little junior things at the one
of the country clubs. My dad's my dad, in fact,
my uncle was a member at so and my dad
would play with my uncle from time to time, and
then they'd play at this course called Cherry Downs in Toronto,
which was a I guess a daily fee. Then my

(02:36):
dad got a membership when I think at like nineteen
seventy four. So I'm going way back on you here,
But you know, this George Newtson was just this neat figure.
You know, he was cool, like it's hard to explain,
you know, just you can tell somebody. Some people have
an aura about them, and he had that. And so

(02:57):
here I am at this little junior golf thing and
probably nine, I'm thinking, and there's maybe there wasn't even
maybe ten kids are less there, and there's George Newton.
He shows up and he's you know, trying to explain
a few things to us, and we weren't hitting balls.
We were just going through these motions, which for kids
is hard to do, right, Like, you know, he's explaining

(03:18):
starting form, finishing form, not hitting any shots, you know,
and he's he's and so the kids are sort of
tuned in some are and I certainly was. And whenever
there was one of those little clinics that I could
go to, he'd be there. And guess what, we weren't
hitting balls. We were just kind of going starting form,
finishing form, swinging above the ground, little half swings to
this place of balance, and then you know, this neat

(03:42):
thing happened, and oh gosh, I guess.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Was nineteen eighty maybe nineteen seventy nine.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
The National Golf Club, which was a great club north
of the city in Toronto, a suburb called Woodbridge, started
a junior.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Development development camp kind of thing. And George was, you know,
affiliated with the National at that point, and so he
could teach there and he was like Captain Canada for
golfers because he had won eight times and you know,
he's probably the best winningest Canadian. Mike Weir has kind
of taken that crown, but at that time. So he

(04:18):
started this junior development camp and like I remember, this
thing came out in the in the winter time, like
I'm going to say, around December, and my neighbor, my
neighbor like down the road a bit, but my buddies
dad said, hey, do you see this thing. George Knudsen's
running this and my dad had missed it and he
scours the paper. So there's this wee little thing in
there about the Toronto you know, this junior development thing.

(04:40):
And so I got all excited about it, and they
wanted you to submit a letter on why you felt
like you did you know, could be a part of
this thing. So you know, there I am, like, you know,
eleven year old little Marty or twelve at the time,
typing and type in away, making mistakes.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
He's in white out. And I was given those letters
later on in life.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
You know that I submitted two of them, and they're
like two paragraphers of like I want to be about
best golfer in the world.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
I work hard, I'll.

Speaker 3 (05:06):
Listen and blah blah blah stuff you want to hear
from little kids, right, So I want to say maybe
d April May there was a quote tryout. So a
couple hundred kids show up to this golf course and
it was imposing and nerve wracking because everybody looks like
they're a star.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Like I was the young one.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
I was maybe you know, I think I was eleven,
maybe twelve, and by then I was a pretty keen
golfer and loved it and played all the time. I
was starting to do well as a junior tournaments and stuff,
but I thought this would be a cool opportunity, so
I show up at this thing.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
You know.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Basically, the director of golf at the time was a
guy named Ben Kern. There's a Ben Kern that played
the Nike Tour, but this is a different man current.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
This has Ben Kurrent, who's passed away.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
He was a wonderful guy and he was a multi
time a multi first team All American in the sixties
and great player.

Speaker 1 (06:00):
So he said, okay, all the twelve and unders.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
So all of us got up and hit a few
balls while George Knutson and imagine this guy like looks
like Clint Eastwood, kind of like super cool, not like
outwardly friendly, just kind of like chill, kick back, well dressed,
walking around, having a cigarette, kind of looking at you
not saying much. You know, you're like at a cattle auction,

(06:23):
you know what I mean, he's gonna buy.

Speaker 1 (06:25):
Like anyway, so all these kids are hitting balls.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
There's maybe there's probably ten of us twelve and under,
and then then they say, okay, thank you guys. Then
you go sit down and and then the other kids
rolled through there, so super nerve wracking, and then they
then they had like a week later, there was a
quote another cut. So I went back and obviously there
wasn't two hundred kids, there's maybe twenty five. And I'm like, oh, okay,

(06:51):
this is getting interesting. And I had this, like I
always had this crazy belief in myself, like a stupid
amount of belief. Okay, I didn't deserve it. I'm glad
I had it. That's something that I can't tell you why.
I don't know why I had it, but I'm glad
I did. But anyway, so I go back. Anyway, I
wound up making this thing and it was the coolest
because every Monday through Friday from eight to eleven, you

(07:12):
were on the back of the range at the National
with George Nutson and these other keeners. Okay, all the
other kids that were tuned in right, there was a
couple of girls.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
And then there was probably twelve boys. David Moreland was
one of them, Brennan.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Little myself, those guys.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
I say those names because Brennan is going to play
in the Senior PGA this year. He's added on tour
for years, lives in Dallas, a really good player, playing
phenomenal golf right now. He spanked me we played last week.
It was he's playing so well it's ridiculous, which is great.
He was my colleg dreammate, one of my best friends.
And then David Moreland lifelonger, like excellent player on every tour.

(07:49):
Nobody knows his name probably, but if you're in the
golf circles, you do. Because he's hadn't been at it
forever and still plays in the Champions Tour from time
to time, European Senior Tour blubble book. But anyway, the
reason I'm kind of going back that far is because
every one of those kids, okay that's stayed in that program.
A couple flitted off because they just wasn't for them.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
But I'm going to say eighty five percent that stuck
it out played college golf in the United States on
a scholarship, which is a crazy success rate.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
That's a crazy stat you know what I mean? Like
this is that's nuts.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
So like every kid, And here's the thing too, and
I'd say this, like, looking back, George was an amazing
figure to be around.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
The coaching piece. I don't know if he was the best.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Coach looking back now what I've done things different coaching
kids one hundred percent. But the thing that was amazing
was the group of kids competitive among themselves. So it
was the playful nature of competition that adults don't have.
And I always get asked this all the time. You know,
ken a fifty year old to get really good at golf,

(08:57):
and I'll be like, yeah, you can, but you don't
hang out with other nerdy or other goofy fifty year
olds hitting goofy shots around a tree for two hours
having fun doing it. You don't have you know, you
don't hang out.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
With your fifty year olds around the putting green for
three hours, you know, talking crap for you know, and
punting and punning and punning and oh.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
Let's go hit this crazy wedshot for an hour. We did.
So we had this.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
We had this like camaraderie among ourselves, you know, and
then you ask about the coaching.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
Flash forward to sixteen. I'm sixteen. Now I've been a
part of this deal.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
You know, all the juniors did well in all the
junior tournaments, and I started playing in the US. But
George broke away from the National because he saw an
opportunity just as a business, to start his own range.
And it was it was just in a suburb of
Toronto called Buttonville, just north of the city, a little
bit east of where the National was. And it was
a private range, meaning you had to be a member.

(09:51):
It wasn't expensive, it was like three hundred bucks a year,
but it just basically kept the grade unwashed from like
coming into hitting balls there. So some level of commitment
to be hey, I'm a member of the range. You
go now you can buy balls. Okay. So he hired whoever,
any any of the kids that wanted a job that
were part of the junior deal. So you want to
work two days a week for me, great? You want
to work one day a week?

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Perfect?

Speaker 2 (10:13):
His son worked there, Paul, a couple other great dudes.
But we all worked a day or two and our
job was just simply this like somebody wanted to buy
balls on balls, hot dog beer, whatever. But then one
of us was always to be on the range to
answer questions.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
Always. So I had walked the range, there might be
ten people hitting balls. Hey, how you saw a sixteen
year old little Marty? Hey, how you doing? How you
hitting up? Oh I'm struggling about Okay, well let's take
a look.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
So at sixteen, I'm not getting you know, they're not
paying me cash for a lesson.

Speaker 1 (10:43):
But for those few hours I was out there and
I loved it. Man, you know, I loved it.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
Because I was just like, okay, let's get the hands
on nice. Let's hey, the swing shape is too far
to the left. You know, you're you know, a variety reasons,
club face this or that, and you know, and so
it was my onboarding to coaching, and so I wasn't shy,
you know, I walk up and down the range, talk
to you know, captains of industry in Toronto, you know,
and then just you know, that was golf for me.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
It was like golf to me was this instant social
introduction to human relationship.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
When I was a little kid, you know, you know,
when I was a little even when I was before
the national even my dad. I had this annual membership
at a place called Flemington Park golf Course, which was
a ninhole executive.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
So it had a few par threes, one par five,
you know, and a few par fours.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Okay, So it was the place where.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
You went to golf when you were in newbie in
Toronto and you didn't want to go to the big
course because you weren't ready for it, you know. So
some forty year old dude dipping his toe in the
golfing water would go to this course to play. Well,
guess who he'd get paired with? Ten year old Marty Chuck.
I'd gone the tea, you know, there I was right.
So by then though, I was pretty good, like this

(12:01):
little executive. I'd whip it around break forty every time
I played it, you know, occasionally you know, shoot parts.
So these newbies are like, oh gosh, here's this little kid.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Wow superstar.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Well, you know, it's like pretty soon I was like,
oh geez, a kid beating by ten. And it wasn't
like I was trying to show off.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
I just play.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I love golf, and so me and my little again
crowd of little kids, we play golf, and then adults
would play with us between Like I'd say the age
range would be like twenty to eighty year olds.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
There's no carts.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
You're walking, carrying your bag or pushing your you know,
pushing them whatever.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
I just carried.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
And great exercise, great human interaction, you know, and you
occasionally play with a good player from time to time,
not too often at this course, from time to time,
but most of the time you're just playing with adults
that are just trying to figure it out and they're
amazed that you can get it around.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
You know. That's so cool.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
And then now from that experience, obviously the you know,
your site, you know, tourst obviously all striking is a
key element of stuff that you do. Obviously it's you
got introduced to Mo Norman. Yeah, is that kind of
where the genesis of your philosophy and everything that that
has kind of you know, brought you to the level

(13:15):
that you're at kind of starting at that.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Point or Mo. MO was cool.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
The first time I saw MO, I was playing, I'm
probably twelve and I'm you know, an issues before that,
I was I was at a sleepover camp.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
It was like maybe eleven ten eleven and this guy
is getting shooed.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Out of a kitchen, like literally shoot out with a
lady with a shoe.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
And he had he had like this crazy story. There
was this really cool CPGA Canadian Professional Golf Associated member
named Ed Membory. Ed Membory, nobody will know his name.
If somebody knows his name that listens to this show, amazing, okay,
because I think any time you mentioned somebody's name, who's gone,
it's like pennies in Heaven, you know me.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
And so, this lovely guy owned.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
This little course north of the city in Simco, Ontario,
and he gave Mo run of the place, like Moe
could go. It's pretty much any course if he wanted to,
They welcome him. He could hit balls, hang out, have
a sandwich. Mo was like cart Blanche Canadian Royalty and
a quirky obviously because he had he had some social issues,
but he was generally a kind guy and so but

(14:24):
he was kind of weird, like you missing teeth, dressed oddly,
blah blah blah. Anyway, I'm in having lunch with the juniors.
It's lunchtime. And in this the doors of the kitchen
swing open and out kind of shuffles Mo like in
a hurry, and this lady's mad at him. Okay, don't
know what the story is. Okay, he's obviously shouldn't be
in the kitchen. Anyway, flash forward a few days later

(14:47):
into the camp. Parents are coming to pick us up sleepover.
The thing was so much fun at this guy's course
and play all day, get a little coaching.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
Another cool thing. I'll tell you about the second.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
Anyway, the guy goes, hey, Mo's gonna hit some balls
for us today and previous in the week. He goes,
Moe's the greatest ball striker that ever lived. So here
I am cocky little kid, like no chance like Jackie Harris,
Tom Watson. There's no way, you know what I mean.
So I'm like, yeah, right, there's no way that in
this little nugget of Ontario, in this little golf course

(15:18):
in the sticks is the best ball.

Speaker 1 (15:21):
Striker in the world. This is my brain. There's no way.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
With bad clothes and you know, in a sunburn and
his hairs, cock eye, there's no way. This is my thoughts, right,
And so the Friday comes parent, my dad's there, my
uncle's they are my cousins at the camp with me,
and sure enough, the pro says, Moe's going to hit
some balls for us, and he puts on a stripe
show like nothing I've ever seen before, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like I'm going, what the heck?

Speaker 3 (15:45):
And my Dad's looking at me, and I'm looking at him,
and he knew who he was, but like, you know,
my dad just was like, oh, he's.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
Kind of a nut. Blah blah blah. You know.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
My dad's given me and I'm like, okay, Dad, this
is something special here. Like you you shoot any five
pop yeah, and you slice every ball you hit. This
guy hits it like nothing I've ever seen before, right,
you know what I mean. So many that was my
intro to MO, and so most would see me around
and I saw him around enough to where he'd be
like hey, hey, and we look at each other and

(16:14):
he gave me and I knew him. And that continued
every summer. Wherever he'd see me, I'd see him. It
wasn't like we were best buds, but we had this
mutual well I had massive respect for him. Then he
knew that I was, like heavily invested in the game,
so he always gave me a little extra second or two,
you know what I mean. And he'd do stuff like
this as a joke, he go, he'd hold his nose

(16:36):
if he had a bad shot, like that stinks, you know,
like okay, thanks mo. But he'd say things like he'd go,
he go, hands go backwards through impact like what Like
I didn't know what he was talking about, you know
what I mean, he'd talking about oh, and he'd drop
his arms, you know, like he'd do all these little
quirky things, and he'd go, oh, club goes straight back,
straight through. And in my little brain, I'm going back

(16:57):
now it's more of a circle. But I'm not going
to argue with this guy because he doesn't miss. And
he was a special dude.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
And even though I was a kid, I'm like And
then my association was with George Newtson, who was like
a PGA tour royalty, never mind, a quirky, disheveld dude
from a southern Ontario named Monorman, you know. And so
one time I caddied for one of the assistants at
the National. I got to play with them all a
couple of times later in life, when I was older.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
That was unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
But the first time I actually saw Mo play. It
was I was caddying for just a random, you know,
Ontario PGA event at some course north of the city
Silver or something. Anyway, my assistant, who was a great
pal of mine, gets paired with Mo, and I'm like, wow, okay,
this will be cool, right, And so they both see

(17:44):
off and my guy hits it. I don't know, they
didn't know Be hit it far back then, but two.

Speaker 1 (17:48):
Fifty, you know, and that's about what they hit at
two fifty.

Speaker 3 (17:51):
But in pretty good wooden clubs. You know, they had
wooden driver. Mo had a wooden driver. But literally Mo
didn't miss the green, you know. Moshot sixty seven, putting
it terribly and like looking at like like the worst
you could possibly put and shoot sixty seven, and my
guy shot sixty nine. Easy golf course. You know, my
guy was a good player. Tim mckeeberw was his name.

(18:14):
He was always in the top of the of the
of the club pro scene back then.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
He loved to play good potter.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
You know, it was so funny as a young guy caddying,
he would he would kind of lock up over the ball,
like he would literally go over it and like freeze
over it and so I didn't understand that, like because
I didn't have any mental demons at twelve years.

Speaker 1 (18:34):
Old and thirteen a scar tissue. Yet I had no
star tissue none.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
To me, golf was just hey, there's the target, hit it,
go get it, you know what. And it just had
zero scar tissue, you know, and I developed some mind
you But and then to watch watch him like stand
over it and freeze, and then Moe would.

Speaker 3 (18:53):
Literally take it. It was the shortest pre shot routine.
Maybe Matt Jones, the Australian guy, but Monorman.

Speaker 2 (18:59):
Literally would just take a look, grab a club, walk up,
aim the face, a couple of waggles, and hit it
like it was like a four or five second event.
Where my guy Tim was it was all over the place.
Like sometimes he'd stand there for thirty seconds, man, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
It was like, oh my god. And yet he'd still
play good.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
But you could tell like golf for Tim was like tortuous, torturous.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
But he was good.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
And at the end of the round it would be
like he just got punched in the face by Mike
Tyson ten times.

Speaker 3 (19:33):
Where Mo was like I'm gonna go practice, okay, you know.
Mo would win, you know, a good solid percentage of
those things. The difference with Mo though, was like if
there was a really good athlete in the field who
had a good day, that person on a good day
would beat Mo because he hit it thirty yards farther
and he had a good day.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Where Moe was going to beat you day in day out.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
He's going to beat you senseless because he didn't have
bad days. But he wasn't the athlete of George Knudsen.
He wasn't the athlete if Tom weis golf, you.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Know what I mean, Yeah, for sure, So that would
be the difference.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, So what would be the you know, from the
I guess top lesson or things that you took away.
Obviously with the exposure you had from a very young age,
that is kind of influenced. You know, we talked about
like your philosophy. Like a fifty year old comes to
you now for a lesson, says, hey, I want to
get better. What would you say kind of the couple

(20:24):
top things you took from that or and then obviously
you've had lots of other experiences throughout of how that
influence kind of how when somebody comes to you in
that situation. How do you look at, you know, a
golfer and decide, hey, this is what we're going to
go after.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
You know, So the middle aged man comes to me
like basically my age.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's just fun. So the first thing I joke, I say, hey,
I don't have to be nice to you.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
I'm not your club pro, you know, like I literally
I'm going to be a coach. Like, let's be honest, Yeah,
you know what I mean. Like, I I'm.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Glad I grew up in other sports besides golf, Like
golf was my love, don't don't get me wrong, but
I also loved hockey. I just got back from the rink.
My son's skating right now. And my coaches weren't you know, friendly,
raw raw guys. I mean, there was obviously a little
bit of that. You know, you got to build people up,
but they're also like held you accountable for problems and

(21:12):
showed you opportunities and same.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Thing a good golf coach.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
It's like, you know, when you're a club pro golf coach,
you got to be nice to mister Gold five times
a day because you see him coming and going and.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Hey, hey, hey, nice to see you. See you tomorrow.
Right as a club pro, you're all raw row.

Speaker 3 (21:27):
But the fact is sometimes students need a little chit chat, like, hey,
you suck at this, you want to be better? Good,
stop you know, pulling your own wool over your eyes,
and let's fix this. Put some attention to it. And
so back to a practice like how people should practice
in my opinion, and this comes from spending time with
Andrew Rice and we used to do a bunch of

(21:48):
camps together years ago, how to flip and blast with him,
a great guy, and so Ricy and I would do
these camps and Rice he was like, you know, we
talked about how people develop and middle aged guys they
never do playful behaviors like so we call it like
a technique, trickery in a test. So three pieces means, okay,

(22:09):
focus on your technique for a bit. You set the time,
play three songs on your phone. I don't care what
you do. Technique, no outcome, don't let the outcome you know,
upset the technical effort for fifteen to twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (22:23):
Trickery, okay, be playful, be that kid okay that hits
it super low punch shot, really high shot, curves it
left right, right to left.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Develop some skill through play. Adults don't do that at all.
I run camps every single week. If you didn't tell
them to do it, they just stand there try to
hit a stock shot the whole time, and they'll suck
at it. So through, you get way better at a
stock shot by kind of exploring the our edges of
every kind of shot.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
So through like, you know, hey, how do I hook it? Okay,
I do this? How do I hit it? A slice it? Oh?
I do this, well, I already slice it. Okay, let's
let's teach you how to hook it.

Speaker 3 (23:01):
And somewhere between there, you know, is a nice stock
shot that you can go really play good golf with.
And then finally, like put a little pressure on yourself
in your practice at the end. Not something that it's
going to keep you there, you know, for hours, just
him not leaving until I hit this particular shot successfully
five times or whatever. So talking to the fifty year old,

(23:22):
I have a lot of fun with that. And it's
not just the fifty year old, it's like every age range.
But it's like, can you do some basic things? Okay,
your physicality, You're not going to dunk a basketball. Now, sorry,
I don't care that you played baseball in college.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
I love that. Well, I played baseball.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
In college like five years ago, exactly, Buddy good, you
keep living in that world.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
The body I'm looking at right now couldn't play baseball
on a Beer League team. So it's like, then, let's
learn how to like leverage a golf club with some
reasonable hands and have nowhere the face is, let's kind
of understand, you know, how this inclined circle kind of shifts.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
A bit, and how you can touch the ground. And
let's what could be a reasonable stock shot for you
that you can rely on, because you know, if you
want to get good, let's have something that you have
a high, high belief in that you can pull off,
you know, if it's a dumpy fade. And I'll give
you an example, Ben Kern. Back to the National when

(24:21):
I was a kid, I'm watching Ben Kern practice, okay,
and I'm watching this ball go out there and like
dumpy fades, and I go, wow, that's not very good.
So here's me, a little kid telling this guy that
played on tour this isn't very good. He looks at me.
He's like, well, i'll tell you what, that worked pretty
good for a guy named Lee Treno. Yeah, And I'm like, huh,
because I'm used to seeing George Newtson demo hitting these

(24:43):
like perfect draws that really didn't even overdraw, like out
to the right, toward the midline, you know this, And
I didn't realize George Neuwtson was as good as George
Newtson was, you know what I mean, until I was
way older, and he couldn't put it in the ocean,
literally couldn't put it in the ocean. But he hit
the little draw every time and then and it was
a sexy ball flight.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
You know.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Fades to me as a kid were like vomit because
when I started, all I could do is hit a fade.
And yet I, you know, wish I would have just
stayed hit a fade, to be honest with you. You know,
I never missed left that would go a little to
the right.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
And it was just a very reliable shot.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
And so as you get on and you get you
get it kind of enammered in in the beauty of
of a of a ball flight rather than just the
reliability of it. And so as people you know, come
to seem Meum, They'll say to me, oh, look at
that Look at that ball. I'm like, yeah, you just
hit ten in a row that are hightly reliable. What

(25:41):
are you talking about? And they'll be like, wow, I'd
love to hit a draw. And I'll be like, dude, you
try to hit a draw. You were going to suck
at golf. I mean for fun. You may stand there
and you know, like in practice, because you may have
a situation where the wind's ripping out the left and
it's nice to kind of keep one of the fight
a bit against the wind for certain reasons. And I

(26:03):
encourage you to get to where you feel some level
of confidence that your ball's going to turn right to left.
But man, oh man, is it ever nice to be
able to kind of say, hey, most of the time,
this ball is gonna spit off the face straightish and
go a little to the right, you know, And then
that's just rather than is it going to go that
way or is it going to go this way?

Speaker 1 (26:22):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (26:23):
So you just try to build this reliability thing, and
then honestly, short game, short game, short game. Most people
can't chip it, pitch it. You know, they're terrible at it.
And so I'm just being candid about can you chip it?
Can you get it up and down from like five
steps off the green? And if it's closely moan, put
the damn thing. There's no ego. Put it hit the

(26:46):
equator of the ball. You won't mishit it. You'll get
it within six feet most of the time, you know,
And when you're an expert, then you can chip it.
And even then, like a Nick Taylor's story, I coach
Nick for a few years after college and he did great.
He won a couple of times on tour. Yeah, and
he well the first time he won, like his third
event on PGA tour is crazy or whatever. And I'm like,

(27:08):
oh my god, I just I got a tour winner.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Now that's so cool.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
But you know what, I didn't hit any of the
shots zero. You know, did I help the kid a
little bit?

Speaker 1 (27:17):
I hope? So I think I did.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
And it was basically, you know, one time at the
Phoenix Open, he misses a green by Oh it's a
great hole too. It's number twelve, number twelve at the
Phoenix Opens.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Apart three, it's like two hundred yards. It's top.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, you got water on the right, you got water
behind the green. Super fast and flat and fat. You know,
hit six iron like Buck ninety five. He's twenty feet
from the pin. It's a good shot, but he missed
the green, and so he chips it. Okay, like you
could have putted it left handed. You could have done
anything and hit it closer than six feet, because there
was nothing to this pot except six foot of perfectly

(27:55):
mowned fringe and then the green.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
So he makes a bogie like it was an unforced error. Right.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
So talking about the round afterward, he played nice. He
shuts four under or something, and I'm like, dude, why'd
you chip that? He goes it was an easy chip,
and I go, yeah, it was a really easy pot,
you know what I'm saying, Like, I don't think he
three puts that, you know, I think he puts it
up their foot or two or and walks away and
then a mildly mishit.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
Chip is a six footer. That is no guarantee, you know.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
So I try to tell people, if you can get some,
if you can hit the leading edge, I mean, if
you can hit the equator of a golf ball, hit
the equator of a golf ball, you know, a little.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Definite, a little more reliable, for sure, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
No, No, obviously you've been in the game for a
long time obviously, I mean even starting you know, teaching,
you know, unofficially, you know, at the arrangement, you know
as a teenager, what you know the you know obviously
for me, even just since I started in you know,
twenty ten, on the physical side, there's been so much
that's changed in just terms of knowledge and you know,

(28:58):
force plates and three D and just the amount of
information and the science that we have. How has your
you know, approach working with players from the instructional side
changed as the information or the you know of the
body and physicality and you know, how does when somebody
comes to you and what their physicality is, you know,
how does that impact what you do with them?

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Has it everything that's come out? Has it changed?

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Maybe you look at some things now that you didn't
look at. You don't look at some things now that
you used to look at. Kind of how has that
changed for you?

Speaker 1 (29:31):
Man?

Speaker 3 (29:31):
I'd say, my, you know, I've had gears now for
fourteen I've been When did I get gears? I got
it in twenty fourteen. So three D Club Delivery. It's
pretty cool to have a little quick snapshowt on that
on a person. The body motions, you know, and the
avatar is pretty cool. I mean, I love a sports box.

(29:53):
Basically you have it on your phone now, which is crazy.
You know, it's very good for what it is is
you know, it's very good. Obviously having a Gears machine
in your studio is most people can't do that, but
you know it's been cool where you know, force plays.
That's probably my next foray. Like I'm probably behind in

(30:16):
in understanding some of that stuff, so I look at
that like I hate being outtecht hated, you know, I
really do.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
And right now, you know.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
I've had a body check, I've had pressure mats for
years and but that's really not you know, vectors and
force generation that kind of thing. So I don't like
sound and smart when I coach, Like that's the last thing.
I just want to be a coach in a bro
and help somebody, like at the simplest level, get better.

(30:45):
But I tell you what, Like it depends on the person.
Like if I need to create an argument because I
think they're very stubborn, I will create an argument that
is that comes from something other than me. So, if
it's a path or delivery issue, you maybe it's a
launch monitor. If it's a club face issue, could be
launch monitor, could be gears, whatever it is. Like, I'll

(31:07):
size up the person and I get a lot of
people that will come to me. They're hysterical. I'll be like, well,
the laundry list of like who's who in teaching?

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Right?

Speaker 2 (31:16):
Well, I'll spend time with so and so and so
and so and so and so and so and so
and so and so.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
And they couldn't help me, and so then you know
what I'll say to them, now that I'm fifty six
and don't give a shit, I'll say, well, and you
expect me to help you.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
I think you're the problem, buddy.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
I'll turn it rightminator, Okay, you're the problem. And they'll
look at me right away like did you really say that?
Maybe there they could probably buy me into slavery.

Speaker 3 (31:40):
And I'll say, I'll say you're probably the problem and
I mean it because I will because I really don't care,
and in the laugh and then we'll say, okay, I
guarantee you Hank Caney, Butch Harmon all these dudes that
you've seen have told you that your grip socks in
your face is wide open. So you can keep doing

(32:02):
it the way you do it, or you can make
this change that's going to bug you for a while
and to where this face is different, which is going
to make everything up the chain of events change for
you to where you can have a bit more.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Effective delivery of a golf club.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Or you can pay me what I make, which is
a you know, I get paid pretty well to teach golf.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
It's a silly thing.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
And you can continue to do what you do, and
then I can be on the list of teachers that
couldn't help you too.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
It's your choice. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
It's a compelling, compelling opening statement for sure. Well, I mean,
and it's real. We have very we have very similar
conversations on the physical side. They're like, hey, I've been
I do this. You know, I've seen all these coaches.
And then you will say, well, do you know that
your hip is supposed to move forty five to fifty
degrees into your lead side and yours goes five degrees?

(32:55):
So no matter what compensation, what what you know? What
somebody tries to do you're you're running into a brick
wall repeatedly, and at some point the bruise on the
forehead is going to turn to blood and there's going
to be a problem unless you address the underlying issues.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Like yeah, I tell you what, Chris, it's it is.
It's unbelievable. So my campers, you'd have a field day.
You need to come next to mer in Arizona. You
should just come out and come to my camp.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
You know, when I look at the chain and I'm
not a you know, I I probably should have studied
the body more than I do, but you know, I
see what I see just from all the coaching reps
that I do, you know, And to me, the biggest
thing is these things that they stand on, these these
feet and these ankles, because you'll see mobility, Like right away,
I call it flat footed whappers. Okaynot not wankers. Some

(33:46):
student last last week said, you call me a wanker.
I said, not a wanker. That's a British form of
whatever it could be endearment, could be derogatory. I said,
you're a whapper, flat footed whapper, And I'd say most
people are flat footed whappers. And I'll say okay, and
my coaches are all good strikers, good players, astome coaches.
And I'll say, hey, guys, let's and I'll put them

(34:08):
through routine and to the player, you know, lead the
trail side inversion e version kind of thing. You know,
they can have this behavior that lets them carry this
you know translation fancy word and rotation that to deliver
this expansion where they you know, the flat footed whapper

(34:29):
can't do that, you know what I mean. And so
it's like, okay, you want to you want to have
delivered chaplain.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
You want to divot in the right place.

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Your body kind of has to support how this levered
event expands into a ball. And to do that, you'll
see a good player will kind of get on the
outside of their lead foot. You know, you'll see me nowadays,
these kids leaping off the ground to provide room for
that expansion at high speeds. And so you know, you'll
have these golfers stand there flat footed wapping at it,

(35:00):
and all they can do is really chicken wing and
flick at it with their hands.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
And so I'll start sometimes start the camp. Okay, sit
in your chair. You know I'll have this little damn
I'll grab a chair. I'll sit there.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
I'll say, okay, so this is not very much. Feed, okay, invert,
Invert your ankles a little bit. Get that loosened up.
You know, what's that feel like?

Speaker 1 (35:18):
You know?

Speaker 3 (35:18):
Can you feel your weight on your glutes? You know,
go right, glue left glute sitting in a chair. You know,
because most of my campers are forty to eighty, I've
had ninety year olds.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
It's awesome, you know. And so now they're kind of
getting a sense for that.

Speaker 3 (35:31):
Now you stand them up, and then they turn into
bipods like there's no there's none of that anymore, right
because their feet. I'll say to them, I go, when's
the last time you ran around barefoot for the afternoon?
And look at me like what, I'll go, When you
were eight, you ran around barefoot all afternoon. You chase
your buddy, you went and got frogs, You did stupid stuff,

(35:53):
you know, you bang your toes, you puncture to your foot.
You know, you always had some little you know. And
I say, now you got shoes on all day long,
or slippers on all day long. Your ankles are so weak,
and yet that's the thing that connects you to the ground,
you know, And so it's like and so we do

(36:14):
a lot of rhythmic stuff, you know, you know, swing
the way to the club, connect the starting form to
a finishing form, echoing George Newtson as a kid, you know.
And but if you can't stand in your feet, how
good are you going to swing a golf club above them?

Speaker 1 (36:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Well, I think that's the interesting thing we see, you know,
when we've got two sets of force plates that we've
been doing tons of research on here.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
For the last four or five years.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
And that's cool when you look at how somebody interacts
it at the plate, you know, aka through their feet
and their ankles.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
So much of it is influenced.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
And this is why I think the biggest miss we
see on the physical side for golfers is guys will
see the problem maybe in their feet right and they
don't realize, or they'll see it in like their club,
you know, they'll see it somewhere where it actually has
nothing to do with that thing that is the symptom
and the actual cause may it may be that they
have no hip internal rotation, so therefore their feet have
to move in a funky way or not move at

(37:07):
all because that's the only way.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
They cannot fall over, right. I always joke with that.
You know, we absolutely work.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
With a you know, a good amount of we've had,
like a ninety two, ninety four year old, we've had,
you know, we get those guys that are you know
that senior golfers, right, and yeah, they're you know, they're
trying to be athletic and move through the ball and
they just haven't moved in thirty five years.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
But they played college baseball, amen baseball.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, but they just their bodies just don't move well
or they've forgotten to move. They've been sitting in a
chair for X amount of years, and you know, they'll
see these things in their golf swing and they're like, oh,
that's my problem, and they'll go blame the golf pros,
the list of golf pros, and we're like, well, dude,
you like it's like blaming like an F one driver
for not winning the race and you gave them a
car without wheels, Like you literally gave a golf pro

(37:53):
a body that doesn't rotate, and like you, you're in
four areas you got to rotate through and you're O
for like, I don't care how good somebody. All they're
gonna do is basically try to duct tape you together.
Like if you could show up with a body that
actually moved, you know, how valuable that lesson would have been.
And it's just like it's a light bulb. They're like, oh,
I never really thought of that. I'm like, yeah, so

(38:13):
back to what you're opening, Like it's a.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
You problem, man, Yeah, no, it is, you know, And
I'll and I'll tell people too, I'll say, hey, listen,
you know, based on the physicality that's in front of me,
here's how you can get the golf club on the ball,
hit it solid, and go get it, you.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Know, and that that has to be a big reason
why you've come up with all of these training aids.
I would imagine that, like, yeah, you know, this is
like probably one of the biggest questions I was, well,
I want to ask you is you know, obviously people
will show up how they show up, and you know,
you know as well as I know, if somebody doesn't
want to improve their body, like I can't make them
do that. Somebody doesn't want to go practice, you can't

(38:49):
make them do that. But obviously that's the some of
the nice things about some of these training aids, and
you obviously have a number of them that are super
I see them at the range. Somebody's got one of
your devices. No matter whenever you go to the range,
there's one person with at least one, you know, So
I have to imagine that will factor in what you
kind of the person that you have is the person

(39:09):
you have ya, how do you kind of sometimes determine, like, hey,
this person to training aid is going to be, you know,
an unlock for this person versus, hey, this person do
something that maybe doesn't include a training aid.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, I'd say when campers you know, come to see me,
you know, we're sizing them up pretty fast. We put
them through a little test if they're if they're massively immobile,
like I'll say, like a smart ball for example, you
know what I mean, like the ball between your arms.
People say, man, I can't I can't do that. I
don't know what how do you hit it with that?

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Say? Well, I'm more mobile than you. And I'll say
this is like eating your vegetables. They're good for you.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
I'll say, if you use this for five minutes every time,
you you know, don't even.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Hit balls with it.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Keep it at home, put it between your forearms. You're
going to be miserable if you If you do it
every day, I guess what You're going to pick up
incremental improvements in your range of motion, you know. And
if you can do that, guess what. You got a
little bit more control now your arms.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
You know, it's like, hey, I can rotate my torso
my arms don't.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
Have to bend excessively all over the place. You're going
to be a more reliable golfer right now. If you
get the golfer that like we do, we call it
lazy susan. Like you know, when you have mashed potatoes
and graving you spin it around the table. So you know,
let's assume a golfer is a right handed golfer. If
we've got somebody that's massively a mobile sixty five seven
year old dude, hasn't moved in years, totally common. Right,

(40:35):
They're not going to be able to internally rotate their
right hip to make a back swing. We'll flare their feet,
We'll aim them into their target line. You know, they
can't get any depth in their swing. We'll create we'll
create that in a setup. Okay, So now they've got
the challenge. Rather than kind of aiming on train tracks,
which tends to be the easiest way to aim, they

(40:55):
got to aim into their target line, you know, so
they can create depth. Yeah, is going to be stunted,
but at least thing at the club on a path
that can hit it sort of solid. So we'll have
to talk with them. Hey, listen, you don't move very well.
It's okay, you know. Yeah, you're not going to bomb it.
You know you're gonna hit your driver is going to
go eighty two miles an hour, even though you played

(41:16):
college baseball. Right, We're going to aim you into your
target line. Here's your path numbers. Now, when you modify
your aim, this ball can be hit way more solid.
Now you don't have to, you know, try to since
you're try to aim straight with no depth. You have
to come way over the top.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
And then you're going to smother hook every ball or
not look it, but just smother it. So then you
add a tonnel loft. Well, now aiming way more to
the right, guess why you come at it from a
better attack area. And then maybe you can let this
space have a bit of release and maybe you zip
a few little roly draws out there that go farther
and so we just try to say listen, if you
can physically move great in my camp A big part

(41:54):
of my camp. Day two in the morning we have
Mark Williamson, the golf yogi.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Have you ever had him on your show? I haven't
had him on the show. Now Mark Williamson, he's great.
He's been with us thirteen years.

Speaker 3 (42:03):
So this second day of a camp, I guess what
they're doing for the first hour after breakfast, the yoga
mats roll out on the beautiful turf and they and
they roll around and stretch and he shows them some
basic moves, you know. And to my was my wife's idea, Stacey,
She's like, hey, you gotta have Mark, you know, come
to your golf camp.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
I'm like, these don't want to roll around on the ground.
What are you talking about.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
And so thirteen years later, at the end of this
you know, stretchy flexy thing, they're like, man, that was great.
I feel fantastic. So day one we kind of beat
him up. There's really no formal stretch. Day two they
get stretched out by this yogi guy and they love it.
And so this forty five minute routine is saved in
their coach Now training space, so all their videos that

(42:47):
compile go into that space. And then some of it's
just how to move, like how to warm up a
little bit, like people don't even know how to warm
up at all and not right, and so how to
warm up the hips of bad at, how to get
the forums ready to go, how to get your wrists
ready to go, how to get those shoulders going.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Then maybe you've got half a chance.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Right, Oh yeah, yeah, My my favorite warm up I
hear of is well, I turned the seat warmers on
on the way to the Yeah, I get that lower
back warm Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
Yeah, I turned the massage chair on in my car. Yeah,
it's like, yeah, I'm sure that that's the key. That's
what Tiger did before he went get a range Rover
with the seat massage or.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
The seat message or yeah, life goals. But uh so, now, Mark,
what do you have coming on? Obviously the training age
you're you're obviously always kind of coming out with new
variations and improvements, and you seem very similar to the
way we approach stuff is always iterating and going through
you know, anything you know that you are working on
or that maybe is coming out, you know, cool to

(43:46):
share with the listeners. You know, nothing I have to share.
I'd say I'm not going to the PGA show for
the first year. I have been going pretty steady now
for started in two thousand and nine, and I've kind
of gone for a couple of years.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
Miss year, gone for a couple years. Year. I'm missing
this year because there's nothing new I'm in.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
I've got some cool stuff in the works. Hopefully the
launches occur in this upcoming calendar year. I would expect
them to. Which would you know, have me ready for
the twenty twenty six PGA show. But honestly, but I
mean the training at business is a tricky one now
because you know, everybody goes, oh, man, you must play,

(44:27):
you must.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Have your own jet.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Now, I'm like, no, no, because unfortunately everybody goes, oh,
you know a smart ball? Why do you charge that
for that? I go because it's hard, damn business. Nobody
get and people out.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
There like, oh I go to Walmart and doing that.
We'll go to Walmart and do that. Take your time,
go do what you want to make your I love.

Speaker 3 (44:46):
The DIY versions of whatever I make. Good for you, buddy,
I'm proud of you. If you have time to do that,
great or click by now and it'll be at your door.
But it's a tough business because nowadays the international trade
and shipping basically get knocked off in a couple months,
and somebody's knocking off your you know, I've got a

(45:08):
few patents knockoffs, and they fled the United States through
international means. You can read between the lines there, and
it's a challenge, you know. So it's tough for mom
and pops out there. Even the big marketplaces promote the knockoffs,
which is a shame. And then basically all you're really
doing is defending yourself to the big marketplaces to say hey,

(45:30):
it's my patent, and they go, oh really, oh okay,
let me shut that down. And then the next day,
oh you again, oh yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Let me shut that down.

Speaker 3 (45:39):
Oh so they say they they're really good about supporting
the small business owner. Well yeah, they make their money
and then they and then they shut it down, and
then that whack them all.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Of just shutting down the knockoffs. It's like, really, dude,
So you almost want to throw the damn towel in
because it's like, really, I'm going to work this hard
to get a product out there for some guy to
knock it off, ship it into the country for peanuts,
and then the consumer is going to be like well,
and I go to the range and I'm seeing knockoffs
on the range.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
And then one dude showed up for a lesson a
couple months back, and he had a knockoff smartball and
I turned the camera on and I took the ball.
I sat it on the beautiful green grass and I
stomped on it and pu it popped.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
And he looked at me.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
I go, dude, this is a knockoff of my patented product.
And he looked at me like in shock. I said,
you know what, here you go, here's the real one. Yeah,
you know I have a video and I just said, yeah,
but that's okay anyway.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
No, but I'm grinding away. I just can't help it.
Like you're this is my little kind of my garage
right now. I'm kind of panning, you know what I mean.
I get back to my students in here.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
I got a golf cart because we live in this
little MENI course, it's fun nice and yeah, I've got
some cool things I'm working on, you know, getting them
over the finish line. Even with me with some experience
in it's not that easy, you know, And it's expensive
developing products you the bowls and stuff.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
It's not it's not cheap man.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
One of the cool things I saw on your site
was the look like there was like a sleeve or
something that you could attach. Yeah the ball, Yeah, smart
ball boom. So you know the smart ball is the lanyard. Well,
it's funny about the ball. So the ball the stupidest
product ever, right, the ball fits in this bungee sleeve.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Now.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
But this thing, I had it on my on my
website for a couple of years and we sold a
few and then Rosie, you know, Justin Rose decides to
wear it and practice with it all the time. So
he blew it up, and then Rory got one, and
then that broke the website. So the smart ball is
just probably my most successful product just because it's you know, guys,

(47:41):
it's stupidly simple.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
And I'm telling you, stupidly simple is the key.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Man, because if it if it requires product, right, and
so then we just I made I took it and
put it on a sleeve because you can wear it
now in your forearm with a with a bell crow.
But the novel to you, But now where it's I
think it's cool is that it pops out of its
bolder and you can wear it on your belts, which

(48:07):
is kind of neat. You can wear it on your leg,
you wear it on your upper arm, wear it on
your wrist. So yeah, we've I really think it's cool.
And it's my issue is, you know, I don't have
a I don't have a I'm not on tour like
I coach a golf school like most of my revenue
comes from coaching golf campus all year long, and that
and the training products is a nice side business. But

(48:30):
you know, if I was coaching on a tour, if
I was on a tour range every week, you know,
coaching guys, which God helped those tour coaches.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
God bless you. It's not for me, oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yeah, But if I was, then you'd see way more
of my products out there, and I'd probably sell wear
way more products. So it's a it's a hard thing
to balance, you know. It's I'm thrilled tour players use
my stuff. I don't push anything, I don't pay anybody,
and I.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Think That's the mark of a good product is it
sells itself.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
And I think when you see the best players in
the world using it, you know, that's a testament to
it works, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
And well so, but.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
You know, and I think you obviously you service the
same you know demos we do. I'm similar to you.
I have no desire to be on tour, traveling and
and and week to weeks. That's why that's why we
built build the headquarters and people.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
Come to us.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
And then we have obviously we have a big online
presence as well that we work with thousands of people
around the world just virtually. But I know, no, I
know you obviously you have the in person camps, you
also do some stuff online and yeah, so and I
know that just from knowing you know, my listeners, that
there are people who are going to be interested in
trying to connect with you and hopefully going out to

(49:39):
a camp, but then also potentially connecting online. How does
that work for you know, anyone who may be interested
in terms of connecting with you, you know, remotely. And
it's pretty straightforward coming out, I mean, click the goat,
go to go to right.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
But yeah, are tough though they sell it pretty fast luckily.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
So we have something called tour Striker Plus, which is
h people can watch all the video content that I
made over the years, and there's a thousand videos.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
And then there's also.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
A way to have a kind of an online relationship
where they can once a month send in a face
on downline video and you know, we myself or my team,
we look at it and go, hey, you look great,
consider this change, and then we turn the camera back
on ourselves and kind of explain it and I do
I do most of those Actually, people go how do
you do that? As I go on, you know, I mean,

(50:29):
I kind of save this amount of my day for
you know, getting back to people on my video platform,
and it's it's kind of fun.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Some people do really really well.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
They they you know, they take coaching pretty well and
just in video and they're and they're decent. Where some
need to be bear wrestled, like, you know, some people
need an in person bear wrestling, and some people do
great just hey, you know, let's fix your grip and
you know, up close picture of how hands could be,
and you know, this is where the club could be
at the top, and this is why it lays open

(51:01):
and you struggle at the bottom blah blah blah. And
so through those exchanges, and I think some people prefer
the it's less pressure than a face to face. Like
some people don't mind the face to face and they
can handle it, and some people just prefer it's like
a softer side of sears, like a video exchange, you know,
and it's like they can either do it or maybe not.

(51:22):
And Marty's not gonna yell at me, and I'll still
I'll still yell at you though through the video and.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
I don't yell, but I'm like, I'm give them them
serious eye, the serious voice, you know.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
But yeah, it's a tour Striker plus has been fun.
We just launched that this year, but I've been doing
online lessons for a long time. We just made it
more formal this year with a program. And you know
how we organize our content. So if you're, you know,
want to hit fairy Wood's betters, you know how you
can get the club to you know, present, you know,
below the equator of the ball and not rock it
down so steeply into the earth.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Simple things like that.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Well, Mario, I got thank you so much for coming
on and you know you're good, busy, and but you know,
for people who want to follow you connect with you,
are what's the and put all this in the show notes.
But you know it would be the kind of the
top ways for them to connect with you.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
You know. So tour striker dot COM's primary website, I
do own them. Just for a joke.

Speaker 3 (52:17):
I got Department of Golf Efficiency the dough am I bought.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
That the other day.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Nobody owns that idea. Now, I just thought that'd be funny.
But now, yeah, tour Circre dot Com. Then you know, socially,
I have a good time on Instagram. I'm not a TikToker.
I think I'm too old for that. Martin Chuck pga
on on Instagram or Tour Striker Golf on Instagram. Tour
Circre Golf tends to be a little bit more product related.

(52:44):
Martin Chuck Ga is just personal med being silly and
posting stuff.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
So yeah, awesome, Well definitely everybody check those out. We'll
put everything in the show notes for you links to
all that stuff, so you can go check it out.
For Martin and Martin, I got to thank you so much, man.
This has been a blast for me this morning, and uh,
you know, we'll obviously have to have to have you
on again. There's I think there's more to talk about,
but I really appreciate you coming on and for everyone listening.
Thanks so much for hanging out with us today on

(53:09):
the golf in his Bomb Squad.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
We'll look forward to catch you in the next episode
Hit Bombs.