May 13, 2025 • 9 mins
Mycologist Dr Tom May took to the witness box today to explain what death cap mushrooms are and where they can be found.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton. Our intern is Jasmine Geddes.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Can I ask you what's the biology of the death
cap mushroom? So the death cap mushroom are the growing
part of this kind of fungus is fine threads that
grow in the soil. They are there whether or not
the sporing body, which is the mushroom is present, so
that growing part in the soil. The technical term is
marcellium that is connected to the roots of living trees,
(00:22):
in particular members of the Oak family.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Today, in the trial of Aaron Pattison, a different type
of witness took to the stand. Tom May is a mycologist,
a mushroom expert, and he explained to the jury in
extensive detail the inner workings of death gaps, the toxic
fungus at the center of this case. He talked about
what makes them different from other mushrooms, where they can
(00:47):
be found, and the toxin that makes them so dangerous.
I'm Brook Greebert Craig, and this is the Mushroom Cook.
I'm joined as usual by my colleague reporter Laura Possella.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hi, Laura, it's great to be back here at our
makeshift podcast studio in more Well.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We're on week three, day ten of the trial. So
today the jury mainly heard evidence from mushroom expert doctor
Thomas May. It was his words, but not his voice.
At the start of the episode. In that little clip,
he was being questioned by Crown Prosecutor Nanette Rogers, Laura,
can you tell the listeners a bit more about doctor May?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Certainly so. He is an internationally recognized fungi specialist, so
he has a lot of knowledge about mushrooms. He's been
associated with the Royal Botanic Gardens for about thirty years
and has written books, academic papers, the works.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So at the beginning of his evidence, doctor May really
educated the jury about deakcat mushrooms and a slideshow was
shown to them.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yes, if I'm being honest, today probably felt a little
bit like class for some of the jurors. There was
a lot of information they had to take in. He
began his evidence simply walking the jury through what are
death cap mushrooms. He explained that their scientific name is
Amanita felodes. The Amanita refers to a group of toxic
mushrooms and Filoides is the specific species, and he said
(02:21):
that they were accidentally introduced to Australia and they were
first reported in Melbourne in the nineteen seventies. Yeah, that's right.
Death cap mushrooms are not native to Australia, so they
did come over here through some sort of means. And
the jury were actually shown a map of the world
where death cap mushrooms can be found, and in the
(02:41):
Australian portion of the map you can see quite a
cluster around Victoria.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And for any of our listeners that are wondering what
do death cap mushrooms actually look like.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Tom May told the jurors that at least when it
comes to the color of the cap of the mushroom.
So that's the bit at the top. He said, death
caps are usually greenish or yellowish, but they could be
whitish or brownish, with or without white patches. He also
spoke about their lifespan, and he spoke about how death
caps have a symbiotic relationship with trees, particularly oak trees.
(03:15):
But instead of me trying and probably failing to explain
how death caps grow, I'll throw to doctor May. These
are his words, it's not his voice.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
That mycellium sits in the soil over years, and from
time to time every year, usually under suitable conditions, it
produces a sporing body, which is the mushroom that we see.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Doctor May also spoke about how other mushrooms can look
like death caps. Like Laura, I'm going to leave it
to the expert as.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well, but there are certainly some mushrooms that occur in
Victoria that are quite similar in appearance to the death cap.
For example, the stubble rosegill. This shares the cup at
the base of the stem, but it differs from the
death cap because it grows in mulch and doesn't have
a ring on the stem, and it doesn't have the
yellow or green tones that are often present in the
death cap, and it has a pinkish brown spore print
(04:04):
in comparison to a white spore print.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Under cross examination by defense barrister Sophie Stafford, doctor May
spoke quite a bit about how challenging it can be
to identify mushrooms. The court heard that it was possible
for people to consume poisonous mushrooms having foraged them, believing
they were safe to eat. Doctor May also spoke about
how toxic mushrooms can sometimes grow alongside non toxic mushrooms,
(04:31):
making the identification process really difficult. He even went as
far to say that people who forage for mushrooms should
take part in some sort of apprenticeship so they can
be really across how to identify toxic mushrooms from non
toxic mushrooms.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So now moving on to more of doctor May's evidence.
The jury heard about a publicly accessible website called Eye Naturalist.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
And our listeners may actually remember this website from one
of our first episodes where the prosecution set out their
case against Erin. They mentioned the eye Naturalist website and
how it was a place for members of the public
to post photos and observations of plants, animal and fungi.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
The jury was shown photos of the website and doctor
May said there were more than four hundred and forty
thousand posts about mushrooms from Australia.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
The jury was then shown a map of Victoria, which
we mentioned earlier in the episode. Across the map you
could see red dots which specified the areas where death
caps had been logged. Doctor May was then specifically brought
to the Gippsland region and he was asked how many
observations had been made in this area for death caps.
(05:44):
He said there were two, one in lock and one
in Outram and These posts were made in April and
May twenty twenty three, so about two months before the
fatal lunch.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
And Lock and Outram are both small townships in South Gippsland,
which are both close to Aaron's house and lean gather.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Doctor May was then asked specifically about the log in
Outram and he told the jury that he was the
one who actually posted about those deathcap mushrooms. He explained
he was in Outram in May twenty twenty three to
make a presentation to a local community group about fungi,
but then during the day he went for a walk
(06:25):
and stumbled across these death caps along a street. He
pulled out his phone and as he's done previously, he
made a log about them. The jury were actually shown
a screenshot of his post and you could see that
his username on the website is Funky Tom and I'll
just make it clear, it's not fungi Tom. It is
Funky Tom with an ey. And on the website you
(06:48):
can see a map, some photos of the deathcap mushrooms
that doctor May took and a little description.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
He told the.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Jury he provided a very precise pin for the location
of these mushrooms, including the latitude and the longitude. Now
our listeners may actually remember that during the prosecution opening,
Nenett Rodgers explained to the jury that it was the
prosecution case that Erin had traveled to both Locke and
Outram after these iron naturalist posts were logged. Nenett Rodgers
(07:19):
told the jury that the phone record suggests Erin was
herself in Lock on April twenty eight, so that's ten
days later. As for doctor May's post, which was made
on May twenty one, the prosecution case is that Erin
traveled to the same area that very next day, on
May twenty two, and stayed there for a period of time.
The jury is expected to later hear from an expert
(07:41):
in phone records who will further explain this evidence.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And doctor May's evidence will continue tomorrow. But before we
finish the episode, Laura, let's just touch upon other witnesses
that took the stand today, in particular more medical witnesses.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
So this morning the jury heard from Laura Muldoon. She
was an emergency registrar at Monash Health in July twenty
twenty three and she treated Erin after she was transported
there from Leamngatha Hospital. Now this was on July thirty one,
so two days after the lunch, and doctor Muldoon told
the court that when she examined Erin, she noticed she
(08:21):
had chapped lips but otherwise looked very well. She said
she took her vital signs and took some blood that
was sent off for testing. The court heard that the
next day, on August one, those test results had come back,
but there was no signs of amanita poisoning, which is
the medical term for toxic mushroom poisoning, and by one
(08:42):
pm Erin was told that she was good to go home.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
The jury also heard from Professor Ronda Stewart. She was
the Director of Infection Prevention and Public Health at Monash Health.
In July twenty twenty three. She told the court that
Aaron said that she used by the mushrooms from a
supermarket and dried mushrooms from an Asian food shop from
(09:04):
either Oakley or glen Waverley in her beef Wellington mill.
Professor Stewart asked Erin whether she had been foraging, and
Aaron replied no.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
And doctor Muldoon also gave evidence about this. She said
she asked Erin the same question whether she had foraged
for wild mushrooms, and Erin also denied doing.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
This without a doubt. It's been a dense day of evidence.
I'm sure there'll be watercum all.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Stay tuned. Thanks Laura, see you tomorrow.
Can I ask you what's the biology of the death
cap mushroom? So the death cap mushroom are the growing
part of this kind of fungus is fine threads that
grow in the soil. They are there whether or not
the sporing body, which is the mushroom is present, so
that growing part in the soil. The technical term is
marcellium that is connected to the roots of living trees,
(00:22):
in particular members of the Oak family.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Today, in the trial of Aaron Pattison, a different type
of witness took to the stand. Tom May is a mycologist,
a mushroom expert, and he explained to the jury in
extensive detail the inner workings of death gaps, the toxic
fungus at the center of this case. He talked about
what makes them different from other mushrooms, where they can
(00:47):
be found, and the toxin that makes them so dangerous.
I'm Brook Greebert Craig, and this is the Mushroom Cook.
I'm joined as usual by my colleague reporter Laura Possella.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Hi, Laura, it's great to be back here at our
makeshift podcast studio in more Well.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yes it is.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
We're on week three, day ten of the trial. So
today the jury mainly heard evidence from mushroom expert doctor
Thomas May. It was his words, but not his voice.
At the start of the episode. In that little clip,
he was being questioned by Crown Prosecutor Nanette Rogers, Laura,
can you tell the listeners a bit more about doctor May?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Certainly so. He is an internationally recognized fungi specialist, so
he has a lot of knowledge about mushrooms. He's been
associated with the Royal Botanic Gardens for about thirty years
and has written books, academic papers, the works.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
So at the beginning of his evidence, doctor May really
educated the jury about deakcat mushrooms and a slideshow was
shown to them.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yes, if I'm being honest, today probably felt a little
bit like class for some of the jurors. There was
a lot of information they had to take in. He
began his evidence simply walking the jury through what are
death cap mushrooms. He explained that their scientific name is
Amanita felodes. The Amanita refers to a group of toxic
mushrooms and Filoides is the specific species, and he said
(02:21):
that they were accidentally introduced to Australia and they were
first reported in Melbourne in the nineteen seventies. Yeah, that's right.
Death cap mushrooms are not native to Australia, so they
did come over here through some sort of means. And
the jury were actually shown a map of the world
where death cap mushrooms can be found, and in the
(02:41):
Australian portion of the map you can see quite a
cluster around Victoria.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
And for any of our listeners that are wondering what
do death cap mushrooms actually look like.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Tom May told the jurors that at least when it
comes to the color of the cap of the mushroom.
So that's the bit at the top. He said, death
caps are usually greenish or yellowish, but they could be
whitish or brownish, with or without white patches. He also
spoke about their lifespan, and he spoke about how death
caps have a symbiotic relationship with trees, particularly oak trees.
(03:15):
But instead of me trying and probably failing to explain
how death caps grow, I'll throw to doctor May. These
are his words, it's not his voice.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
That mycellium sits in the soil over years, and from
time to time every year, usually under suitable conditions, it
produces a sporing body, which is the mushroom that we see.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Doctor May also spoke about how other mushrooms can look
like death caps. Like Laura, I'm going to leave it
to the expert as.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Well, but there are certainly some mushrooms that occur in
Victoria that are quite similar in appearance to the death cap.
For example, the stubble rosegill. This shares the cup at
the base of the stem, but it differs from the
death cap because it grows in mulch and doesn't have
a ring on the stem, and it doesn't have the
yellow or green tones that are often present in the
death cap, and it has a pinkish brown spore print
(04:04):
in comparison to a white spore print.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
Under cross examination by defense barrister Sophie Stafford, doctor May
spoke quite a bit about how challenging it can be
to identify mushrooms. The court heard that it was possible
for people to consume poisonous mushrooms having foraged them, believing
they were safe to eat. Doctor May also spoke about
how toxic mushrooms can sometimes grow alongside non toxic mushrooms,
(04:31):
making the identification process really difficult. He even went as
far to say that people who forage for mushrooms should
take part in some sort of apprenticeship so they can
be really across how to identify toxic mushrooms from non
toxic mushrooms.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So now moving on to more of doctor May's evidence.
The jury heard about a publicly accessible website called Eye Naturalist.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
And our listeners may actually remember this website from one
of our first episodes where the prosecution set out their
case against Erin. They mentioned the eye Naturalist website and
how it was a place for members of the public
to post photos and observations of plants, animal and fungi.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
The jury was shown photos of the website and doctor
May said there were more than four hundred and forty
thousand posts about mushrooms from Australia.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
The jury was then shown a map of Victoria, which
we mentioned earlier in the episode. Across the map you
could see red dots which specified the areas where death
caps had been logged. Doctor May was then specifically brought
to the Gippsland region and he was asked how many
observations had been made in this area for death caps.
(05:44):
He said there were two, one in lock and one
in Outram and These posts were made in April and
May twenty twenty three, so about two months before the
fatal lunch.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
And Lock and Outram are both small townships in South Gippsland,
which are both close to Aaron's house and lean gather.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Doctor May was then asked specifically about the log in
Outram and he told the jury that he was the
one who actually posted about those deathcap mushrooms. He explained
he was in Outram in May twenty twenty three to
make a presentation to a local community group about fungi,
but then during the day he went for a walk
(06:25):
and stumbled across these death caps along a street. He
pulled out his phone and as he's done previously, he
made a log about them. The jury were actually shown
a screenshot of his post and you could see that
his username on the website is Funky Tom and I'll
just make it clear, it's not fungi Tom. It is
Funky Tom with an ey. And on the website you
(06:48):
can see a map, some photos of the deathcap mushrooms
that doctor May took and a little description.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
He told the.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Jury he provided a very precise pin for the location
of these mushrooms, including the latitude and the longitude. Now
our listeners may actually remember that during the prosecution opening,
Nenett Rodgers explained to the jury that it was the
prosecution case that Erin had traveled to both Locke and
Outram after these iron naturalist posts were logged. Nenett Rodgers
(07:19):
told the jury that the phone record suggests Erin was
herself in Lock on April twenty eight, so that's ten
days later. As for doctor May's post, which was made
on May twenty one, the prosecution case is that Erin
traveled to the same area that very next day, on
May twenty two, and stayed there for a period of time.
The jury is expected to later hear from an expert
(07:41):
in phone records who will further explain this evidence.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
And doctor May's evidence will continue tomorrow. But before we
finish the episode, Laura, let's just touch upon other witnesses
that took the stand today, in particular more medical witnesses.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
So this morning the jury heard from Laura Muldoon. She
was an emergency registrar at Monash Health in July twenty
twenty three and she treated Erin after she was transported
there from Leamngatha Hospital. Now this was on July thirty one,
so two days after the lunch, and doctor Muldoon told
the court that when she examined Erin, she noticed she
(08:21):
had chapped lips but otherwise looked very well. She said
she took her vital signs and took some blood that
was sent off for testing. The court heard that the
next day, on August one, those test results had come back,
but there was no signs of amanita poisoning, which is
the medical term for toxic mushroom poisoning, and by one
(08:42):
pm Erin was told that she was good to go home.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
The jury also heard from Professor Ronda Stewart. She was
the Director of Infection Prevention and Public Health at Monash Health.
In July twenty twenty three. She told the court that
Aaron said that she used by the mushrooms from a
supermarket and dried mushrooms from an Asian food shop from
(09:04):
either Oakley or glen Waverley in her beef Wellington mill.
Professor Stewart asked Erin whether she had been foraging, and
Aaron replied no.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
And doctor Muldoon also gave evidence about this. She said
she asked Erin the same question whether she had foraged
for wild mushrooms, and Erin also denied doing.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
This without a doubt. It's been a dense day of evidence.
I'm sure there'll be watercum all.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
Stay tuned. Thanks Laura, see you tomorrow.
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