May 16, 2025 • 8 mins
Today in the trial of Erin Patterson, a forensic toxicologist has returned to the witness box.
The Mushroom Cook is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton. Our intern is Jasmine Geddes.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
At the end of week three, more experts took to
the stand and one of the stars of the day
was the dehydrator, a dehydrator that Aaron Patterson lied about
dumping at a local tip put simply. Crown Prosecutor Narnette
Rodgers asked whether the DNA fingerprint of a deathcat mushroom
had been found in debris taken from this dehydrator.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The results of the testing using the various tests that
were available to you, including the genome sequencing and the
barcode sequencing, indicate the presence of Amanita filoides DNA in
the item setout in this table.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
That's correct in samples four and seven of the dehydrater.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It was a day of technical evidence, but we're here
to take you through it. I'm Brook Greenbert Craig, and
this is the Mushroom cook. Day thirteen of Aaron Patterson's
murder trial is done and I'm back with court reporter
Laura POSSELLA. Hi, Laura, Hey, Brook. It was a short day,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's sure. As we've mentioned before, court on Friday finishes
at one pm, so everyone gets to go home early.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So this will be a shorter episode. But rest assured.
We'll have a subscriber episode that will go live on Sunday,
so stay tuned for that one. Now let's move on
to what we heard today. At the top of the episode,
you heard an exchange between doctor David Lovelock from Agriculture
Victoria and Crown Prosecutor Nannette Rogers, and they were talking
(01:30):
about the dumped dehydrator their words but not their voices.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
And just to remind our listeners, this is the dehydrator
that Erin has admitted to dumping on August two. This
is about four days after the lunch We heard from
witness Darren Canty a few days ago, who manages the tip.
He told the court that he received a call from
police around August four making some inquiries about this dehydrator.
(01:59):
One of mister Canty his employees searched the bin at
the tip found the dehydrata and then that was later
seized by police. After police took hold of the dehydrada,
they have taken samples from it and then these samples
have been sent off for testing.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Some of that testing was carried out by doctor Lovelocke
and Laura, can you explain to the listeners who he
is and what he does.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So, as you mentioned, Brooke, he's from Agriculture Victoria and
he's a diagnostician. He received the samples from the dehydrata
on August eleven and he ran a series of tests
with people from his team. The court heard today that
he examined seven test tubes which were each filled with
samples from the dehydrata. He was asked about the results
(02:46):
of these tests that were conducted and he said that
two of the seven test tubes came back positive for
Amanita filoides, which is of course death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
The jury also heard that he examined other things related
to the mill, including leftover beef Wellington, a jug of
gravy and a fruit platter.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And this marked another chapter in the journey of the Leftovers.
To remind everyone, the leftovers have gone from Erin's binn
at her home, to lean Gatha Hospital, to Monash Medical Center,
to the Royal Botanic Garden's office, to the home of
my collegist Camille Trung and then at this point we
hear they've arrived at doctor Lovelock's lab, most likely at
(03:28):
Agriculture Victoria.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yes, they've definitely made their way around the state, and I.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Failed to mention that at some point they've then gone
to the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine by the end
of August. So we'll wait to see if there's any
other stops these leftovers make along the way, but for
now the court are hearing that they are at doctor
Lovelock's lab. On August two, he told the court that
two samples of these leftovers were tested and neither came
(03:55):
back positive for death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
But he did say that he found white but the
mushrooms and beef.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
That's correct, but he didn't just test the leftovers and
the debris from the dehydrator, as you said earlier, Brooke,
a jug of gravy and a fruit platter also made
their way to his lab. He said that he didn't
need to run any tests on the fruit platter after
observing it himself, but the jug of gravy was examined
and no traces of deathcat mushrooms were found.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Laura, you said earlier. By August twenty nine, the leftovers
had made their way to the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine.
One of the forensic toxicologists who works there returned to
the witness box today.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
That's right, it was Dmitri Girista Mulis. He was back
in court today for cross examination and he was asked
a series of questions by defense barrister Colin Mandy about
the test results that came back of all of the
samples taken from the lunch guests as well as Erin
and her children. Listeners may remember that yesterday doctor Girista
(05:02):
Mulis was asked a number of questions around the amatoxins
present in these samples. Specifically, these are death cap amatoxins
called alpha amaneitin and beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
And what did he say about Don Patterson's samples?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
He told the court again today that don samples came
back positive for both alpha amaneiton and beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
And that was in his urine, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, that's right, And.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
What did he say about the others then?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So he made a point today of explaining to the
jury that amatoxins are less detectable in blood samples than
they are in urine samples. The court heard that there
was no urine sample from Gail Patterson, so the tests
had to be run against her blood and it was
for this reason, he explained. The results came back showing
(05:55):
no presence for either alpha aminiton or beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Mister Mandy suggested to him that a person's ability to
recover from the ingestion of poisonous mushrooms would depend on
several factors. What did he say about that.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yes, Doctor Gurrista Mullis agreed with mister Mandy that a
person's general health, their age, their weight, and even their
toxic response could weigh into how they would recover from
the ingestion of poisonous mushrooms. He also agreed that the
amount of mushrooms consumed and even the concentration of the
(06:32):
toxins within the meal could play a role in their
potential recovery. After he gave these answers in cross examination,
Crown Prosecutor Sarah Lenthal had a question for him in
re examination. The first time she asked his question, mister
Mandy actually objected and the jury left the room. But
(06:52):
later in the course of proceedings, mister Mandy said he
would withdraw his objection and the question was asked to
doctor Gurrista Mullis. This is the exchange between miss Lenthal
and the witness. These are their words, it's not their voices.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
If two adults with no serious pre existing health conditions
consume the same amount of the same meal, which contained
death cap mushrooms, than one person dies, what would you
expect the health outcomes to be for the person who
did not die.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Yes, there would be likely that there would be some
adverse outcomes for that person who survived, the severity of
which may vary depending on some of the factors that
I've previously spoken about today. But we have had examples
where two people have consumed the same meal, and more recently,
this happened last year here in Victoria, where one person
passed away and the other one was significantly ill for
(07:44):
a period of time and ended up in ICU. So
it is possible, but it's it will depend on how
much is eaten, the person's response to that amount of
toxin as well.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And that was the end of his evidence. Thanks so much,
Laura for pronouncing Dimitri's surname for me. It was a
bit of a hard one, eld. And that also brings
us to the end of today's show.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
See you next week, Brook.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
This is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
It's presented and reported by me Brook, Greebert Craig and
Laura Plussella, reporting and presenting for our weekend subscriber only
shows by Anthony Dowsley. Interning for US is Jasmine Getty's.
Our executive producer is Jordie Atkinson. The Mushroom Cook is produced,
(08:29):
written and edited by John ty Burton
At the end of week three, more experts took to
the stand and one of the stars of the day
was the dehydrator, a dehydrator that Aaron Patterson lied about
dumping at a local tip put simply. Crown Prosecutor Narnette
Rodgers asked whether the DNA fingerprint of a deathcat mushroom
had been found in debris taken from this dehydrator.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
The results of the testing using the various tests that
were available to you, including the genome sequencing and the
barcode sequencing, indicate the presence of Amanita filoides DNA in
the item setout in this table.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
That's correct in samples four and seven of the dehydrater.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
It was a day of technical evidence, but we're here
to take you through it. I'm Brook Greenbert Craig, and
this is the Mushroom cook. Day thirteen of Aaron Patterson's
murder trial is done and I'm back with court reporter
Laura POSSELLA. Hi, Laura, Hey, Brook. It was a short day,
wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's sure. As we've mentioned before, court on Friday finishes
at one pm, so everyone gets to go home early.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So this will be a shorter episode. But rest assured.
We'll have a subscriber episode that will go live on Sunday,
so stay tuned for that one. Now let's move on
to what we heard today. At the top of the episode,
you heard an exchange between doctor David Lovelock from Agriculture
Victoria and Crown Prosecutor Nannette Rogers, and they were talking
(01:30):
about the dumped dehydrator their words but not their voices.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
And just to remind our listeners, this is the dehydrator
that Erin has admitted to dumping on August two. This
is about four days after the lunch We heard from
witness Darren Canty a few days ago, who manages the tip.
He told the court that he received a call from
police around August four making some inquiries about this dehydrator.
(01:59):
One of mister Canty his employees searched the bin at
the tip found the dehydrata and then that was later
seized by police. After police took hold of the dehydrada,
they have taken samples from it and then these samples
have been sent off for testing.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Some of that testing was carried out by doctor Lovelocke
and Laura, can you explain to the listeners who he
is and what he does.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So, as you mentioned, Brooke, he's from Agriculture Victoria and
he's a diagnostician. He received the samples from the dehydrata
on August eleven and he ran a series of tests
with people from his team. The court heard today that
he examined seven test tubes which were each filled with
samples from the dehydrata. He was asked about the results
(02:46):
of these tests that were conducted and he said that
two of the seven test tubes came back positive for
Amanita filoides, which is of course death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
The jury also heard that he examined other things related
to the mill, including leftover beef Wellington, a jug of
gravy and a fruit platter.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And this marked another chapter in the journey of the Leftovers.
To remind everyone, the leftovers have gone from Erin's binn
at her home, to lean Gatha Hospital, to Monash Medical Center,
to the Royal Botanic Garden's office, to the home of
my collegist Camille Trung and then at this point we
hear they've arrived at doctor Lovelock's lab, most likely at
(03:28):
Agriculture Victoria.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yes, they've definitely made their way around the state, and I.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Failed to mention that at some point they've then gone
to the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine by the end
of August. So we'll wait to see if there's any
other stops these leftovers make along the way, but for
now the court are hearing that they are at doctor
Lovelock's lab. On August two, he told the court that
two samples of these leftovers were tested and neither came
(03:55):
back positive for death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
But he did say that he found white but the
mushrooms and beef.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
That's correct, but he didn't just test the leftovers and
the debris from the dehydrator, as you said earlier, Brooke,
a jug of gravy and a fruit platter also made
their way to his lab. He said that he didn't
need to run any tests on the fruit platter after
observing it himself, but the jug of gravy was examined
and no traces of deathcat mushrooms were found.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Laura, you said earlier. By August twenty nine, the leftovers
had made their way to the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine.
One of the forensic toxicologists who works there returned to
the witness box today.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
That's right, it was Dmitri Girista Mulis. He was back
in court today for cross examination and he was asked
a series of questions by defense barrister Colin Mandy about
the test results that came back of all of the
samples taken from the lunch guests as well as Erin
and her children. Listeners may remember that yesterday doctor Girista
(05:02):
Mulis was asked a number of questions around the amatoxins
present in these samples. Specifically, these are death cap amatoxins
called alpha amaneitin and beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
And what did he say about Don Patterson's samples?
Speaker 3 (05:20):
He told the court again today that don samples came
back positive for both alpha amaneiton and beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
And that was in his urine, wasn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Yes, that's right, And.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
What did he say about the others then?
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So he made a point today of explaining to the
jury that amatoxins are less detectable in blood samples than
they are in urine samples. The court heard that there
was no urine sample from Gail Patterson, so the tests
had to be run against her blood and it was
for this reason, he explained. The results came back showing
(05:55):
no presence for either alpha aminiton or beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Mister Mandy suggested to him that a person's ability to
recover from the ingestion of poisonous mushrooms would depend on
several factors. What did he say about that.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yes, Doctor Gurrista Mullis agreed with mister Mandy that a
person's general health, their age, their weight, and even their
toxic response could weigh into how they would recover from
the ingestion of poisonous mushrooms. He also agreed that the
amount of mushrooms consumed and even the concentration of the
(06:32):
toxins within the meal could play a role in their
potential recovery. After he gave these answers in cross examination,
Crown Prosecutor Sarah Lenthal had a question for him in
re examination. The first time she asked his question, mister
Mandy actually objected and the jury left the room. But
(06:52):
later in the course of proceedings, mister Mandy said he
would withdraw his objection and the question was asked to
doctor Gurrista Mullis. This is the exchange between miss Lenthal
and the witness. These are their words, it's not their voices.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
If two adults with no serious pre existing health conditions
consume the same amount of the same meal, which contained
death cap mushrooms, than one person dies, what would you
expect the health outcomes to be for the person who
did not die.
Speaker 5 (07:21):
Yes, there would be likely that there would be some
adverse outcomes for that person who survived, the severity of
which may vary depending on some of the factors that
I've previously spoken about today. But we have had examples
where two people have consumed the same meal, and more recently,
this happened last year here in Victoria, where one person
passed away and the other one was significantly ill for
(07:44):
a period of time and ended up in ICU. So
it is possible, but it's it will depend on how
much is eaten, the person's response to that amount of
toxin as well.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
And that was the end of his evidence. Thanks so much,
Laura for pronouncing Dimitri's surname for me. It was a
bit of a hard one, eld. And that also brings
us to the end of today's show.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
See you next week, Brook.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
This is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
It's presented and reported by me Brook, Greebert Craig and
Laura Plussella, reporting and presenting for our weekend subscriber only
shows by Anthony Dowsley. Interning for US is Jasmine Getty's.
Our executive producer is Jordie Atkinson. The Mushroom Cook is produced,
(08:29):
written and edited by John ty Burton
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