June 2, 2025 • 14 mins
Erin Patterson took to the witness box today in her own triple murder trial, delivering a testimony the world has been waiting 674 days to hear.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton. Our intern is Jasmine Geddes.
The Mushroom Cook is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mss Patterson. Can you repeat your full name please?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Erin Trudy Patterson.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
And how old are you?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Fifty?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Now, I want to start by asking you some questions
about what your life was like in July of twenty
twenty three.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Okay, I'm outside the La Troe Valley Courthouse and we've
just finished one of the biggest days in the murder
trial of Aaron Patterson. It was the day that the
accused herself took to the stand. We only found out
it was going to happen late in the day, and
her testimony lasted about an hour. But we're going to
spend this episode unpacking it all. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig,
(00:40):
and this is the Mushroom Cook. It's the start of
week six and I'm joined as always by my colleague
court reporter Laura Plasella. We're here in our makeshift podcast studio.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
In Morewell, what a day we've had.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It was huge. I was in the overthrowing room today,
but Laura, you were fortunate enough to snag a seat
in courtroom.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
For that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Like most days of the trial, the courtroom was packed.
I wasn't allocated a reserved media seat today but I
managed to grab a seat on a bench in the
courtroom near the jury box, and they are about seven
of us on this bench, so it's safe to say
it was a tight squeeze. The prosecution closed its case
today and as soon as that took place, just as
(01:26):
Christopher Beale turned to Erin's defense barrister Colin Mandy, and
he asked, what course will the accused be taking? There
was a pause and then mister Mandy replied, your honor,
the defense will call Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And what was it like in the courtroom at that time?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
It was a very hushed moment. And then right after
that the jury were ushered out of the courtroom to
allow miss Patterson to get from the dock where she's
been seated for twenty four days to the witness box
where she would give evidence today.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
And can you describe to our listeners what she looked
like and what she was wearing.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So she was in a black Paisley shirt, Paisley being
a pattern, and it had a few spots of color
on it. She had her hair out draped over her shoulders,
and we have seen her at times use glasses, but
today she chose not to wear them. It was at
this point that the tip staff who manages the courtroom,
(02:23):
walked over to Miss Patterson and walked her through her affirmation.
She gave an affirmation to tell the whole truth and
nothing but the truth. And after that the questioning got underway.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So mister Mandy asked Erin a range of questions about
her life. So we'll walk our listeners through each point.
Let's start with her low self esteem.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Erin revealed to the court that she was planning to
have weight loss surgery in a gastric bypass. Here's more
of what she was asked. We've used actors to voice
their words.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
How in July of twenty twenty three, how did you
feel about yourself physically?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Not good?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Why?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I'd been fighting a never ending battle of low self
esteem most my adult life, and the further inroads I
made into being middle aged, the less less I felt
good about myself. I suppose put on more weight, could
handle exercise less.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Was it principally the weight issue?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean that was the large that was the
bulk of it.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yep. And did you have plans to do anything about
to address the weight issue?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I did?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And what were those plans?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I was planning to have weight loss surgery, you know,
is it gas strich bypass. I was planning to do that.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about the birth of her and
Simon's son. She said his birth was very traumatic.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He went on to ask her why, for what reason?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It went for a very long time, and they tried
to get him out with forceps and he wouldn't come out,
and he started to go into distress and they lost
his heartbeat, so they did an emergency cesarean and got
him out quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Okay, now, as a result of that cesarean, you had
to stay in hospital for a few days.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, it was sixteen years ago, so I'm not sure
exactly how long, but it was probably roughly a week
that I was in My son was in the neonatal
I see you for a while to start with.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And how was it that you ended up leaving hospital?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So my son had got to a point where they
were happy to discharge him. He was off oxygen, he
was off the feeding tube, and they said he could
be discharged to go home with Simon, but they wanted
me to stay because of they didn't think I had
healed quite well enough from the surgery, and they wanted
me to stay and I wanted to go with my son.
So I remember having a conversation with Simon about it,
(04:42):
and I was really upset and I said, I don't
want to stay here by myself. I want to go
home with my son. And Simon said to me, you
can just do it, let's just leave.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Did that involve you discharging yourself against medical advice?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yep, it did.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her Lean Gat, the home
that she moved into with her children in June twenty
twenty two, and what.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Role did you have in designing that house.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, I was involved right from the beginning of the design.
I suppose Simon and I were involved through the whole
design process. But I drew a design myself first in
like Microsoft paint, and gave that to the building designer
and he said that will never work engineering wise. Let's
move it around a bit, you know. But it modeled
quite closely on how I wanted things sorted out.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And what were your plans for that house?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I saw it as the final house, meaning I wanted
it to be a house where the children would grow up,
where once they moved away for Uni or work. They
could come back and stay whenever they liked, bring their children,
and I'd grow old there. That's what I hoped.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
In the year that you had been there, did you
like living in the house?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I really liked living in the house.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her financial situation in July
twenty twenty three. She said she was comfortable financially.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
He's more of she said, And in July of twenty
twenty three, what were your financial circumstances.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I was comfortable financially such that I could afford to
go to university and I didn't need to work a
full time job. At the same time, Aaron was also
asked about when she met her husband, Simon. She went
on to explain they both worked at a local council together.
This was her exchange with mister Mandy.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Can you tell the jury how you met Simon.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
We met because we worked at the same place. We
both worked at the City of Monash Council offices in
glen Waverley.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And what was your role there?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
So I was employed by the RSPCA and but as
part of that role, I was located at the City
of Monash offices as an administration assistant. So the RSPCA
had the contract to deliver animal management services to Monash
and as part of that they would supply two rangers
and an admin officer and I was the admin officer.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And what was Simon's role at Monash City Council.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
He was a traffic engineer, I believe at the time.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
And how did your relationship commence?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
We had mutual friends, is how I remember it coming together.
He was friends with people that I had become friends with,
So we would come up against each other at lunch
or after work drinks, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And what sort of activities did that group of friends
do together?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Initially in two thousand and three, it was just really
lunch at work or after work drinks.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Aaron went on to say that her and Simon started
dating in July two thousand and five. They were engaged
in February two thousand and seven, and then married in
June that same year. Aaron said Simon's cousin Dave Wilkinson
walked her down the aisle. Mister Mandy asked erin where
her parents were. She replied they were in Russia on
a train, adding that they were having.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
A holiday Aaron then said her and Simon traveled around
Australia before going to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So immediately after our wedding we had a long weekend
in a Linda. That was the honeymoon. But what we
really wanted for our honeymoon was to drive around Australia.
So Simon gave notice of his job. We gave away
everything we had, sold Simon's car to Ian and Heather
bought ans and patrol and we just hit the open road.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And where did you go?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
We first went to Sydney. Simon had some friends there
that he wanted us to stay with, so we did
that and then we just slowly meandered our way across Australia,
but through the you know, like the far West, Birdsville, Udna,
Dada Track, you.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Know, the guts of it really And where did you
end up?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
We ended up in Perth around September of seven.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And did you settle in perse So we.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Did eventually, Yeah, But we first went over to Africa
for a couple of months.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And where did you go in Africa?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
We landed in South Africa. We went to Botswana to
visit some of Simon's relatives. We went to Zimbabwe, to
visit a friend of his. We went camping through Namibia.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And did you get back to Perth at the end
of two thousand and seven something like that.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, about then what did.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You do when you got back to Perth.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
When we got back to Perth, Simon was pretty keen
to keep traveling, and I was pretty keen to stop
for a while and put down roots. I was keen
to start having babies, I guess, for want of a
better way to phrase it, so we did.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Mister Mandy also asked Aaron about her relationship with Simon
in July twenty twenty three. The jury previously heard the
pair separated in twenty fifteen. This is what she said.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It was functional from the start of the year to July.
We mainly just related on logistic things like church, the streaming,
the kids, but we didn't relate on friend things banter
like we used to. That changed at the start of
the year.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Aaron was also asked about parts of her life that
weren't so good around that time.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I had felt for some months that my relationship with
the wider Patterson family, and particularly Don and Gale, had
perhaps had a bit more distance or space put between us.
We saw each other less. I mean, partly it's a
consequence of I no longer lived in the same town
as Donnungale, but i'd I'd come to have concerns that
Simon was not wanting to be involved too much with
(10:01):
the family anymore. Perhaps I wasn't being invited to so
many things.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her religion when she met Simon.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
When you met Simon, what were your views about religion?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I was what you would probably call a fundamentalist atheist,
like I was really very atheist.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And what was Simon's views?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Oh? He was a Christian? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And did your attitude towards religion change? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It did?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah? And what was that?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
So through the course of those two to three months
December four January February oh five, we had a lot
of conversations about life, religion, politics, and a lot about religion.
And I was trying to convert him to being an atheist.
But things happened in reverse, and I became a Christian.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
You said that you first met Don and Gail when
you went on a trip to Karumborough. Yep. Did you
go to church on that trip to Karumborough? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It was the first church service I'd ever been to.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
And do you remember when that was?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I think the closest I can say is March or April,
but I don't think it was Easter, so.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, that's fine, March or April. Do you remember the
experience of going to church on that occasion, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I remember being really excited about it because I'd never
been to a church service before. I'd been to my
sister's wedding in a church, but that was it, and
I was I was really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
What church was it?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
It was Cornborough Baptist Church.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And what do you remember about that church service?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I remember that there was a banner up on the
wall behind where Ian was preaching.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
When you say Ian, do you mean Ian Wilkinson.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's right. He was the pastor and he was giving
a sermon that day, and there was a banner. It
could still be there now, but it said it has
on it faith, hope, and love. And Ian gave a
sermon talking about that. There's a passage in the Bible
that talks about faith, hope, and love, and the greatest
of these is love. And I remember Ian giving a
sermon on that, and then we had communion which I
(11:56):
was welcome to participate in.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And what impact did the church service have on you?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I had what at best can be described as like
a spiritual experience. I'd been I'd been approaching religion as
an intellectual exercise up until that point. Does that make sense?
Is it rational? But I had what I would call
a religious experience there and it quite overwhelmed me.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Let's move on to the last topic that Aaron was
asked about today, the separation between her and Simon.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Aaron told the court that ultimately Hear and Simon couldn't
communicate well when they disagreed about something. Here's more of
what she said on that matter.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
During those periods of separation, how did you and Simon
manage the children?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So obviously the pre twenty fourteen separation, it was just
our son. I would say that, even though obviously our
relationship was struggling because of a separation, it was really
important to both of us to cooperate about our son
and make it as easy on him as possible, as
easy as a separation if his parents can be. Yeah,
that was our priority.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And was there any conflict between you as to how
to look after your son?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
No? There wasn't. There wasn't.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
There must have been some tension to cause the separations.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, of course, yep, there was.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
What was that about?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Primarily what we struggled with over the entire course of
our relationship. If we had any problems at all, it
was we just couldn't communicate well when we disagreed about something,
We could never communicate in a way that made each
of us feel heard or understood, so we would just
feel hurt and not know how to resolve it.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
But that kind of tension didn't extend to how you
look after your son.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
No, it didn't, because we just both loved him.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So Aaron gave evidence for only forty one minutes today
after the morning was spent finishing Detective Leading Senior Constable
Stephen Eppingstool's cross examination.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
And Erin will return to the witness box tomorrow for
further questions from mister Mandy. At some stage, we don't
know when the prosecution will get their turn to cross
examine the accused triple murderer.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Thanks Laura. To stay updated on this case, go to
the mushroomcook dot com dot au
Mss Patterson. Can you repeat your full name please?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Erin Trudy Patterson.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
And how old are you?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Fifty?
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Now, I want to start by asking you some questions
about what your life was like in July of twenty
twenty three.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Okay, I'm outside the La Troe Valley Courthouse and we've
just finished one of the biggest days in the murder
trial of Aaron Patterson. It was the day that the
accused herself took to the stand. We only found out
it was going to happen late in the day, and
her testimony lasted about an hour. But we're going to
spend this episode unpacking it all. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig,
(00:40):
and this is the Mushroom Cook. It's the start of
week six and I'm joined as always by my colleague
court reporter Laura Plasella. We're here in our makeshift podcast studio.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
In Morewell, what a day we've had.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
It was huge. I was in the overthrowing room today,
but Laura, you were fortunate enough to snag a seat
in courtroom.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
For that's right.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
Like most days of the trial, the courtroom was packed.
I wasn't allocated a reserved media seat today but I
managed to grab a seat on a bench in the
courtroom near the jury box, and they are about seven
of us on this bench, so it's safe to say
it was a tight squeeze. The prosecution closed its case
today and as soon as that took place, just as
(01:26):
Christopher Beale turned to Erin's defense barrister Colin Mandy, and
he asked, what course will the accused be taking? There
was a pause and then mister Mandy replied, your honor,
the defense will call Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
And what was it like in the courtroom at that time?
Speaker 4 (01:44):
It was a very hushed moment. And then right after
that the jury were ushered out of the courtroom to
allow miss Patterson to get from the dock where she's
been seated for twenty four days to the witness box
where she would give evidence today.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
And can you describe to our listeners what she looked
like and what she was wearing.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
So she was in a black Paisley shirt, Paisley being
a pattern, and it had a few spots of color
on it. She had her hair out draped over her shoulders,
and we have seen her at times use glasses, but
today she chose not to wear them. It was at
this point that the tip staff who manages the courtroom,
(02:23):
walked over to Miss Patterson and walked her through her affirmation.
She gave an affirmation to tell the whole truth and
nothing but the truth. And after that the questioning got underway.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So mister Mandy asked Erin a range of questions about
her life. So we'll walk our listeners through each point.
Let's start with her low self esteem.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Erin revealed to the court that she was planning to
have weight loss surgery in a gastric bypass. Here's more
of what she was asked. We've used actors to voice
their words.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
How in July of twenty twenty three, how did you
feel about yourself physically?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Not good?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Why?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
I'd been fighting a never ending battle of low self
esteem most my adult life, and the further inroads I
made into being middle aged, the less less I felt
good about myself. I suppose put on more weight, could
handle exercise less.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Was it principally the weight issue?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean that was the large that was the
bulk of it.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yep. And did you have plans to do anything about
to address the weight issue?
Speaker 2 (03:29):
I did?
Speaker 1 (03:30):
And what were those plans?
Speaker 2 (03:32):
I was planning to have weight loss surgery, you know,
is it gas strich bypass. I was planning to do that.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about the birth of her and
Simon's son. She said his birth was very traumatic.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
He went on to ask her why, for what reason?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
It went for a very long time, and they tried
to get him out with forceps and he wouldn't come out,
and he started to go into distress and they lost
his heartbeat, so they did an emergency cesarean and got
him out quickly.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Okay, now, as a result of that cesarean, you had
to stay in hospital for a few days.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Yeah, it was sixteen years ago, so I'm not sure
exactly how long, but it was probably roughly a week
that I was in My son was in the neonatal
I see you for a while to start with.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
And how was it that you ended up leaving hospital?
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So my son had got to a point where they
were happy to discharge him. He was off oxygen, he
was off the feeding tube, and they said he could
be discharged to go home with Simon, but they wanted
me to stay because of they didn't think I had
healed quite well enough from the surgery, and they wanted
me to stay and I wanted to go with my son.
So I remember having a conversation with Simon about it,
(04:42):
and I was really upset and I said, I don't
want to stay here by myself. I want to go
home with my son. And Simon said to me, you
can just do it, let's just leave.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Did that involve you discharging yourself against medical advice?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Yep, it did.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her Lean Gat, the home
that she moved into with her children in June twenty
twenty two, and what.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Role did you have in designing that house.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Well, I was involved right from the beginning of the design.
I suppose Simon and I were involved through the whole
design process. But I drew a design myself first in
like Microsoft paint, and gave that to the building designer
and he said that will never work engineering wise. Let's
move it around a bit, you know. But it modeled
quite closely on how I wanted things sorted out.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
And what were your plans for that house?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I saw it as the final house, meaning I wanted
it to be a house where the children would grow up,
where once they moved away for Uni or work. They
could come back and stay whenever they liked, bring their children,
and I'd grow old there. That's what I hoped.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
In the year that you had been there, did you
like living in the house?
Speaker 2 (05:49):
I really liked living in the house.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:52):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her financial situation in July
twenty twenty three. She said she was comfortable financially.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
He's more of she said, And in July of twenty
twenty three, what were your financial circumstances.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
I was comfortable financially such that I could afford to
go to university and I didn't need to work a
full time job. At the same time, Aaron was also
asked about when she met her husband, Simon. She went
on to explain they both worked at a local council together.
This was her exchange with mister Mandy.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Can you tell the jury how you met Simon.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
We met because we worked at the same place. We
both worked at the City of Monash Council offices in
glen Waverley.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And what was your role there?
Speaker 2 (06:35):
So I was employed by the RSPCA and but as
part of that role, I was located at the City
of Monash offices as an administration assistant. So the RSPCA
had the contract to deliver animal management services to Monash
and as part of that they would supply two rangers
and an admin officer and I was the admin officer.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
And what was Simon's role at Monash City Council.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
He was a traffic engineer, I believe at the time.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
And how did your relationship commence?
Speaker 2 (07:02):
We had mutual friends, is how I remember it coming together.
He was friends with people that I had become friends with,
So we would come up against each other at lunch
or after work drinks, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
And what sort of activities did that group of friends
do together?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Initially in two thousand and three, it was just really
lunch at work or after work drinks.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Aaron went on to say that her and Simon started
dating in July two thousand and five. They were engaged
in February two thousand and seven, and then married in
June that same year. Aaron said Simon's cousin Dave Wilkinson
walked her down the aisle. Mister Mandy asked erin where
her parents were. She replied they were in Russia on
a train, adding that they were having.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
A holiday Aaron then said her and Simon traveled around
Australia before going to South Africa.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
So immediately after our wedding we had a long weekend
in a Linda. That was the honeymoon. But what we
really wanted for our honeymoon was to drive around Australia.
So Simon gave notice of his job. We gave away
everything we had, sold Simon's car to Ian and Heather
bought ans and patrol and we just hit the open road.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
And where did you go?
Speaker 2 (08:09):
We first went to Sydney. Simon had some friends there
that he wanted us to stay with, so we did
that and then we just slowly meandered our way across Australia,
but through the you know, like the far West, Birdsville, Udna,
Dada Track, you.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Know, the guts of it really And where did you
end up?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
We ended up in Perth around September of seven.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And did you settle in perse So we.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Did eventually, Yeah, But we first went over to Africa
for a couple of months.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And where did you go in Africa?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
We landed in South Africa. We went to Botswana to
visit some of Simon's relatives. We went to Zimbabwe, to
visit a friend of his. We went camping through Namibia.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
And did you get back to Perth at the end
of two thousand and seven something like that.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah, about then what did.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
You do when you got back to Perth.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
When we got back to Perth, Simon was pretty keen
to keep traveling, and I was pretty keen to stop
for a while and put down roots. I was keen
to start having babies, I guess, for want of a
better way to phrase it, so we did.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Mister Mandy also asked Aaron about her relationship with Simon
in July twenty twenty three. The jury previously heard the
pair separated in twenty fifteen. This is what she said.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
It was functional from the start of the year to July.
We mainly just related on logistic things like church, the streaming,
the kids, but we didn't relate on friend things banter
like we used to. That changed at the start of
the year.
Speaker 4 (09:35):
Aaron was also asked about parts of her life that
weren't so good around that time.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I had felt for some months that my relationship with
the wider Patterson family, and particularly Don and Gale, had
perhaps had a bit more distance or space put between us.
We saw each other less. I mean, partly it's a
consequence of I no longer lived in the same town
as Donnungale, but i'd I'd come to have concerns that
Simon was not wanting to be involved too much with
(10:01):
the family anymore. Perhaps I wasn't being invited to so
many things.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Mister Mandy asked Aaron about her religion when she met Simon.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
When you met Simon, what were your views about religion?
Speaker 2 (10:13):
I was what you would probably call a fundamentalist atheist,
like I was really very atheist.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
And what was Simon's views?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Oh? He was a Christian? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And did your attitude towards religion change? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:27):
It did?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah? And what was that?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
So through the course of those two to three months
December four January February oh five, we had a lot
of conversations about life, religion, politics, and a lot about religion.
And I was trying to convert him to being an atheist.
But things happened in reverse, and I became a Christian.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
You said that you first met Don and Gail when
you went on a trip to Karumborough. Yep. Did you
go to church on that trip to Karumborough? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:56):
It was the first church service I'd ever been to.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
And do you remember when that was?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I think the closest I can say is March or April,
but I don't think it was Easter, so.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Yeah, that's fine, March or April. Do you remember the
experience of going to church on that occasion, Yeah, I do.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
I remember being really excited about it because I'd never
been to a church service before. I'd been to my
sister's wedding in a church, but that was it, and
I was I was really looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
What church was it?
Speaker 2 (11:25):
It was Cornborough Baptist Church.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And what do you remember about that church service?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
I remember that there was a banner up on the
wall behind where Ian was preaching.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
When you say Ian, do you mean Ian Wilkinson.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
That's right. He was the pastor and he was giving
a sermon that day, and there was a banner. It
could still be there now, but it said it has
on it faith, hope, and love. And Ian gave a
sermon talking about that. There's a passage in the Bible
that talks about faith, hope, and love, and the greatest
of these is love. And I remember Ian giving a
sermon on that, and then we had communion which I
(11:56):
was welcome to participate in.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
And what impact did the church service have on you?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I had what at best can be described as like
a spiritual experience. I'd been I'd been approaching religion as
an intellectual exercise up until that point. Does that make sense?
Is it rational? But I had what I would call
a religious experience there and it quite overwhelmed me.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Let's move on to the last topic that Aaron was
asked about today, the separation between her and Simon.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Aaron told the court that ultimately Hear and Simon couldn't
communicate well when they disagreed about something. Here's more of
what she said on that matter.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
During those periods of separation, how did you and Simon
manage the children?
Speaker 2 (12:40):
So obviously the pre twenty fourteen separation, it was just
our son. I would say that, even though obviously our
relationship was struggling because of a separation, it was really
important to both of us to cooperate about our son
and make it as easy on him as possible, as
easy as a separation if his parents can be. Yeah,
that was our priority.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
And was there any conflict between you as to how
to look after your son?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
No? There wasn't. There wasn't.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
There must have been some tension to cause the separations.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, of course, yep, there was.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
What was that about?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Primarily what we struggled with over the entire course of
our relationship. If we had any problems at all, it
was we just couldn't communicate well when we disagreed about something,
We could never communicate in a way that made each
of us feel heard or understood, so we would just
feel hurt and not know how to resolve it.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
But that kind of tension didn't extend to how you
look after your son.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
No, it didn't, because we just both loved him.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
So Aaron gave evidence for only forty one minutes today
after the morning was spent finishing Detective Leading Senior Constable
Stephen Eppingstool's cross examination.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
And Erin will return to the witness box tomorrow for
further questions from mister Mandy. At some stage, we don't
know when the prosecution will get their turn to cross
examine the accused triple murderer.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Thanks Laura. To stay updated on this case, go to
the mushroomcook dot com dot au
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