June 27, 2025 • 9 mins
Mushroom cook Erin Patterson has been accused of telling many lies, some she admits and some she denies. Today, Justice Christopher Beale told the jury how they can use these lies when it comes time to deliberate.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton.
The Mushroom Cook is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
Go to themushroomcook.com.au for news, features, previous episodes and more
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Even if you think the conduct makes her look guilty,
it does not necessarily mean that the accused is guilty.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Lies one of the central themes in the trial of
Aaron Pattison what lies did she tell and who did
she tell them to? Aaron admits to telling some lies,
but the prosecution alleges she told many more. Today, Justice
Christopher Bill took the jury through what they should consider
(00:27):
and what they should not consider when grappling with Aaron's
alleged lies. During deliberations next week, I'm Brook Greebt Craig,
and this is the mushroom Cook. It's day thirty nine
and the end of week nine of Aaron Patterson's murder trial.
And I'm here with court reporter Laura Colsseller.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hey Brook, and I will say, in the words of
Justice Bill, that he udded today. Thank God it's Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That definitely made me and the jury laugh. Justice Bill
continued his charge today and finished making his way through
the list of alleged incriminating conduct after touching upon the lies.
Aaron admits to telling police about never having foraged from
mushrooms and never having owned a dehydrator. He turned to
(01:14):
a lie. She does not admit her alleged lie about
being unwell in the days after the lunch, just.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Like he has over the last few days. He summarized
the evidence of doctors and nurses from both Lee and
Gatha Hospital and Monash Medical Center, as all of some
of the other medical witnesses in this case, such as
intensive care specialist Andrew Burston and forensic toxicologist Demitri Gurista Mulis.
He reminded them that Erin testified that in the hours
(01:43):
after the lunch, she binge ate a cake that Gail
had brought and forced herself to vomit. He then said
that she told the jury she experienced frequent diarrhea later
that night on July twenty nine, that continued into the
following day. Justice Bill told the jury that she said
she took a modium before or she drove her son
to his flying lesson in ti Ubp but ended up
(02:03):
having to pull over on the side of the road
to go to the toilet in the bushes. She said
she later stopped at a service station and briefly entered
a toilet to throw her soil tissues away. He also
reminded the jury that Erin said she drove herself to
Lee and Gatha Hospital on July thirty one because her
diary was continuing and she wanted to see if they
(02:24):
could give her some fluids.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Justice Bill turned to the arguments by the prosecution. He
said the prosecution claimed that Aaron was not suffering at
all and was feigning deathcat mushroom poisoning because she knew
remaining healthy would give her away. He said the prosecution
also argued that if Aaron had pulled over to go
to the toilet in the bushes, her son would have
(02:48):
remembered such an emergency stop. He added that the prosecution
also questioned why she left hospital after only five minutes
if she was truly unwell.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Justice Biale said that the defense argued that the prosecution
had unfairly not called an expert witness to testify specifically
about the symptoms of death cap mushroom poisoning. He said
that the defense, though, had pointed to a research article
referred to during the testimony of doctor Girista Mullis that
said Grade one death cap mushroom poisoning did comprise gastro
(03:24):
like symptoms. Justice Biale said that the defense also argued
that if Erin was lying, about vomiting after the lunch,
she would have told the jury that she threw off
immediately and could see Beef Wellington in her vomit. He
added that the defense suggested that if Erin was also
lying about being unwell, she would not have discharged herself
against medical advice, but would have instead told doctors to
(03:47):
pump her full of drugs to make her story more believable.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Finally, Justice Bill then gave his directions about the topic
of incriminating conduct. He said there were two ways the
jue could use the alleged lies if they found them
to be lies. Here's what he said about the first way.
These are his words, but not his voice.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
The law says that you may use the accused lies
to help you assess her credibility. If you find that
an accused lied about something, you can use that fact
to help you decide whether or not you believe the
other things that the accused has said, whether those are
things she said to the witnesses in the case or
to you in her testimony. That is not to say
(04:31):
just because you find that the accused lied about one matter,
you must also find that she's been lying about everything else.
But you can use the fact that she lied. If
you find that she did, to help you determine the
truthfulness of the other things that she has said.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
But Justice Beer warned the jury to not reason that
simply because a person has lied, they must be guilty.
He then turned to the second way the jury could
use the alleged lies if they found them to be lie.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
The second way in which you may be able to
use one of the alleged lies which the prosecution relies
on as incriminating conduct, is as evidence that Aaron Patterson
committed the charged offenses, in other words, as implied admissions
of guilt. You may only use evidence that Aaron Patterson
lied in this way if you find that she did
(05:23):
tell a deliberate untruth and that the only reasonable explanation
for doing so is that she believed she had committed
the charged offenses.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Justice Beale also gave the jury another warning. He said
that if they find that Erin lied because she knew
she had committed the offenses charged, they still must consider
the rest of the evidence to decide whether the prosecution
has proved its case beyond reasonable doubt. He also told
the jury that the other alleged incriminating conduct that wasn't
(05:53):
lies could also be used as implied admissions of guilt.
He then broke down all of the conduct into two sections,
the conduct erin admits and the conduct she does not admit.
When it came to the conduct she admits, Justice Beal
reminded the jury that she accepts that she dumped her dehydrator,
(06:14):
that she left hospital after only five minutes, that she
factory reset phone B, and that she told lies in
her record of interview. When it came to assessing this conduct,
he said, the jury must remember that Aaron told them
that she panicked, that she had a history of hating hospitals,
and that she was using phone B because phone A
(06:35):
was damaged.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
In summary, there are all sorts of reasons why a
person might behave in a way that makes the person
look guilty the accused, and yet not be guilty.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
When it came to the conduct she does not admit,
Justice Beal reminded the jury that Aaron denies lying about
using the dried mushrooms in the beef Wellington, lying about
feeding the leftovers to her children, and lying about being unwell,
as well as other allegations put forward by the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Justice Bill told the jury that if they find that
Aaron did engage in any of this conduct, they must
consider whether she may have done so because she feared
being wrongly blamed for a deliberate poisoning or losing the
custody of her children. He then turned to the topic
of credit lies. He told the jury that the law
(07:25):
draws a distinction between lies that formed part of incriminating conduct,
which we have just been talking about, and credit lies.
Here's what he said.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Credit lies, on the other hand, may only be used
for that first purpose in assessing credit of the accused.
If you were to find that the accused had told
any other lies other than those lies that I've been
talking about for the last month, whether to persons involved
in this case or to you in her testimony, you
may use those lies in assessing her credibility, but only
(07:58):
for that purpose.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Justice Bial flagged that there were four credit lies alleged
by the prosecution. The first, he said, was that Erin
lied to police about being very very helpful during the
Department of Health investigation. Those are the words she told
police during her record of interview. Justice Beale reminded the
jury that the prosecution argued that Erin had not been
(08:22):
very very helpful and knew she hadn't been because she
had not told Senior Public Health Adviser Sally Anne Atkinson
that foraged mushrooms may have accidentally ended up in the
beef Wellington meal.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Justice Bill said he would summarize the defense's argument on
this on Monday. He said he still has a bit
to go with his charge, but he has broken the
back of it.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
He told the jury he expected to finish the remainder
of his charge on Monday, before two jurors would be
balloted off and deliberations could begin. But before the jury
left for the day, he instructed them to not let
anybody get in their ear over the weekend and recommended
a media blackout. He then offered some words of encouragement
before they walked out the door. He said they had
(09:07):
been doing a great job and that they should keep going.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Now, just a little note for our listeners, because we
are nearing the end of the trial, we won't have
a subscriber episode on Sunday, but rest assured there will
be more to come, but for now, go to the
mushroomcook dot com dot au for more
Even if you think the conduct makes her look guilty,
it does not necessarily mean that the accused is guilty.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Lies one of the central themes in the trial of
Aaron Pattison what lies did she tell and who did
she tell them to? Aaron admits to telling some lies,
but the prosecution alleges she told many more. Today, Justice
Christopher Bill took the jury through what they should consider
(00:27):
and what they should not consider when grappling with Aaron's
alleged lies. During deliberations next week, I'm Brook Greebt Craig,
and this is the mushroom Cook. It's day thirty nine
and the end of week nine of Aaron Patterson's murder trial.
And I'm here with court reporter Laura Colsseller.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Hey Brook, and I will say, in the words of
Justice Bill, that he udded today. Thank God it's Friday.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
That definitely made me and the jury laugh. Justice Bill
continued his charge today and finished making his way through
the list of alleged incriminating conduct after touching upon the lies.
Aaron admits to telling police about never having foraged from
mushrooms and never having owned a dehydrator. He turned to
(01:14):
a lie. She does not admit her alleged lie about
being unwell in the days after the lunch, just.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Like he has over the last few days. He summarized
the evidence of doctors and nurses from both Lee and
Gatha Hospital and Monash Medical Center, as all of some
of the other medical witnesses in this case, such as
intensive care specialist Andrew Burston and forensic toxicologist Demitri Gurista Mulis.
He reminded them that Erin testified that in the hours
(01:43):
after the lunch, she binge ate a cake that Gail
had brought and forced herself to vomit. He then said
that she told the jury she experienced frequent diarrhea later
that night on July twenty nine, that continued into the
following day. Justice Bill told the jury that she said
she took a modium before or she drove her son
to his flying lesson in ti Ubp but ended up
(02:03):
having to pull over on the side of the road
to go to the toilet in the bushes. She said
she later stopped at a service station and briefly entered
a toilet to throw her soil tissues away. He also
reminded the jury that Erin said she drove herself to
Lee and Gatha Hospital on July thirty one because her
diary was continuing and she wanted to see if they
(02:24):
could give her some fluids.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Justice Bill turned to the arguments by the prosecution. He
said the prosecution claimed that Aaron was not suffering at
all and was feigning deathcat mushroom poisoning because she knew
remaining healthy would give her away. He said the prosecution
also argued that if Aaron had pulled over to go
to the toilet in the bushes, her son would have
(02:48):
remembered such an emergency stop. He added that the prosecution
also questioned why she left hospital after only five minutes
if she was truly unwell.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Justice Biale said that the defense argued that the prosecution
had unfairly not called an expert witness to testify specifically
about the symptoms of death cap mushroom poisoning. He said
that the defense, though, had pointed to a research article
referred to during the testimony of doctor Girista Mullis that
said Grade one death cap mushroom poisoning did comprise gastro
(03:24):
like symptoms. Justice Biale said that the defense also argued
that if Erin was lying, about vomiting after the lunch,
she would have told the jury that she threw off
immediately and could see Beef Wellington in her vomit. He
added that the defense suggested that if Erin was also
lying about being unwell, she would not have discharged herself
against medical advice, but would have instead told doctors to
(03:47):
pump her full of drugs to make her story more believable.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Finally, Justice Bill then gave his directions about the topic
of incriminating conduct. He said there were two ways the
jue could use the alleged lies if they found them
to be lies. Here's what he said about the first way.
These are his words, but not his voice.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
The law says that you may use the accused lies
to help you assess her credibility. If you find that
an accused lied about something, you can use that fact
to help you decide whether or not you believe the
other things that the accused has said, whether those are
things she said to the witnesses in the case or
to you in her testimony. That is not to say
(04:31):
just because you find that the accused lied about one matter,
you must also find that she's been lying about everything else.
But you can use the fact that she lied. If
you find that she did, to help you determine the
truthfulness of the other things that she has said.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
But Justice Beer warned the jury to not reason that
simply because a person has lied, they must be guilty.
He then turned to the second way the jury could
use the alleged lies if they found them to be lie.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
The second way in which you may be able to
use one of the alleged lies which the prosecution relies
on as incriminating conduct, is as evidence that Aaron Patterson
committed the charged offenses, in other words, as implied admissions
of guilt. You may only use evidence that Aaron Patterson
lied in this way if you find that she did
(05:23):
tell a deliberate untruth and that the only reasonable explanation
for doing so is that she believed she had committed
the charged offenses.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Justice Beale also gave the jury another warning. He said
that if they find that Erin lied because she knew
she had committed the offenses charged, they still must consider
the rest of the evidence to decide whether the prosecution
has proved its case beyond reasonable doubt. He also told
the jury that the other alleged incriminating conduct that wasn't
(05:53):
lies could also be used as implied admissions of guilt.
He then broke down all of the conduct into two sections,
the conduct erin admits and the conduct she does not admit.
When it came to the conduct she admits, Justice Beal
reminded the jury that she accepts that she dumped her dehydrator,
(06:14):
that she left hospital after only five minutes, that she
factory reset phone B, and that she told lies in
her record of interview. When it came to assessing this conduct,
he said, the jury must remember that Aaron told them
that she panicked, that she had a history of hating hospitals,
and that she was using phone B because phone A
(06:35):
was damaged.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
In summary, there are all sorts of reasons why a
person might behave in a way that makes the person
look guilty the accused, and yet not be guilty.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
When it came to the conduct she does not admit,
Justice Beal reminded the jury that Aaron denies lying about
using the dried mushrooms in the beef Wellington, lying about
feeding the leftovers to her children, and lying about being unwell,
as well as other allegations put forward by the prosecution.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Justice Bill told the jury that if they find that
Aaron did engage in any of this conduct, they must
consider whether she may have done so because she feared
being wrongly blamed for a deliberate poisoning or losing the
custody of her children. He then turned to the topic
of credit lies. He told the jury that the law
(07:25):
draws a distinction between lies that formed part of incriminating conduct,
which we have just been talking about, and credit lies.
Here's what he said.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Credit lies, on the other hand, may only be used
for that first purpose in assessing credit of the accused.
If you were to find that the accused had told
any other lies other than those lies that I've been
talking about for the last month, whether to persons involved
in this case or to you in her testimony, you
may use those lies in assessing her credibility, but only
(07:58):
for that purpose.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Justice Bial flagged that there were four credit lies alleged
by the prosecution. The first, he said, was that Erin
lied to police about being very very helpful during the
Department of Health investigation. Those are the words she told
police during her record of interview. Justice Beale reminded the
jury that the prosecution argued that Erin had not been
(08:22):
very very helpful and knew she hadn't been because she
had not told Senior Public Health Adviser Sally Anne Atkinson
that foraged mushrooms may have accidentally ended up in the
beef Wellington meal.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Justice Bill said he would summarize the defense's argument on
this on Monday. He said he still has a bit
to go with his charge, but he has broken the
back of it.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
He told the jury he expected to finish the remainder
of his charge on Monday, before two jurors would be
balloted off and deliberations could begin. But before the jury
left for the day, he instructed them to not let
anybody get in their ear over the weekend and recommended
a media blackout. He then offered some words of encouragement
before they walked out the door. He said they had
(09:07):
been doing a great job and that they should keep going.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Now, just a little note for our listeners, because we
are nearing the end of the trial, we won't have
a subscriber episode on Sunday, but rest assured there will
be more to come, but for now, go to the
mushroomcook dot com dot au for more
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com