May 15, 2025 • 10 mins
In an action-packed day in the trial of Erin Patterson, the presiding judge announced that a jury member had been discharged.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton. Our intern is Jasmine Geddes.
The Mushroom Cook is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
Go to themushroomcook.com.au for news, features, previous episodes and more
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We've just come out of court and a major development
has happened in the trial of Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
That's right, Brook, a jura has been dismissed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And what did Justice Christopher Bill say?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
So he brought in all of the jurors to the
courtroom this morning. There were fifteen in the beginning, but
by this stage only fourteen were brought into the court
and he told them that one of their fellow jurors had.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Been discharged and did he give a reason.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
He told the jury that he had received information about
this juror and that he was allegedly discussing the case
with his family and friends against Justice Bill's instructions.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And then Justice Bill reminded the jury that they should
only discuss the case with their fellow jurors in the
privacy of the jury room.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
He reiterated to the jury that he had not made
a positive finding that this jury member definitely had discussed
the case with his family and friends, but rather he
couldn't dismiss the possibility that he had.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thanks Laura, we'll head back to our makeshift podcast studio
in our airbnb to discuss this further. I'm Brook Grabert,
Craig and this is the mushroom cook. I'm back with
my colleague, court reporter Laura Possella. Laura, what a day.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, it's been a big one.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's dissect it a bit more. What does this mean
for the trial?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, the fact that a juror has been discharged actually
doesn't mean too much. So there are fifteen jurors who
were mpaneled in this case when it started about three
weeks ago, but now we're at fourteen. However, only twelve
people will decide this case. So once all the evidence
has been heard and the closing addresses have been given,
(01:48):
only two jurors will now be balloted off instead of
three to get to that magic number of twelve. And
as our listeners may actually remember from one of our
first episodes, Justice Beale told the jury once they were unpaneled,
that they were allowed to talk about the fact that
they were sitting in on the Aaron Patterson trial. They
could even mention that the case was expected to run
(02:09):
for six weeks and the times they might be required
to come to court, But he made it very clear
that they weren't to get into a discussion with their
family and friends about the case. He said to them
shut down any attempt to draw you into conversation about it.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Great, now let's move on. We've spoken a bit about
the leftovers of that beef welling to meal throughout our
podcast episodes. So we said that it was fish from
a bin by a local police officer, then transported with
Aaron in an ambulance to Monash Medical Center, and we
described on yesterday's episode how it was examined by doctor
(02:48):
Kimille Truong. Today the jury heard from forensic toxicologist Dmitri
giro Stimulis. He was the one that examined the samples
of that leftover meal after a came to him from
doctor Truon.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, So the journey of these leftovers continues. So, like
you mentioned, they've gone from doctor Trung's office at the
Royal Botanic Gardens. We're not quite sure exactly where they've
been over the course of August, but by August twenty
nine they're at a laboratory where they're being tested. Doctor
Girista Mulis works for the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine
(03:25):
and he spoke today about the analysis of toxicology and
how exactly they come to their conclusions. He was asked
today about this by Crown Prosecutor Sarah Lenthal. These are
their words, it's not their voices.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I'm going to start with the portions of food before
I get to the results of your analysis of the
portions of food. The jury has heard evidence in this
case from a mycologist called Camille Truong who examined little
pieces of mushroom from this same portion of food under
a microscope, and she did not find any death cat mushrooms.
Can you explain to the jury the difference between that
(04:01):
microscopic exam and what you did here.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Microscopic exam is different to what we undertake. We undertake
an analysis at much lower levels than what the naked
eye can actually detect or identify. We don't rely on
visual detection of compounds. We rely on sensitive instruments to
be able to detect very low quantities that are not visible.
So I'm not saying that they weren't visible in the
(04:26):
sample that was analyzed, but they'd be difficult in the
small amounts, particularly if they'd been put into food, to
identify as death cap mushrooms. So the only real way
of identifying poisons that have been put in food or
in other preparations is analytically and that's usually done by
labiotories such as ours.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
So essentially, he said he was not looking for the
visual aspects of mushrooms, but rather the chemical compounds of
the death cap mushroom. Laura, what did he actually find
in the leftovers?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So, just to take a step back, today really was
another lesson for the jury, this time in the toxins
you find in death caps, which are called amatoxins, and
there's two in particular that are very lethal, alpha amanitan
and beta amaniton. The court heard that these leftovers were
tested in the lab and they were specifically looking for
(05:23):
these two toxins. Photos were shown to the jury of
the leftovers and you could see that the toxicologists had
separated the leftovers into pastry samples, mushroom paste, and meat.
They ran their tests and the court heard that one
sample of the mushroom paste and one sample of the
(05:44):
meat tested positive for beta amaneiton. So again that is
one of the toxins found in death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Now, debris from the dehydrator was also tested. What was
found on that at some.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Point in time sample have been taken from this dehydrata
of vegetable matter, and this is what the toxicologists were
testing at their lab. The jury were shown the results
of their tests and four samples of the debris again
tested positive for both alpha amaneitan and beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
The jury heard samples from the lunch guests were also
tested for amatoxins. This included samples of their blood, hair
and urine, and even liquid from Don Pattison's eye.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The results of these tests were shown to the jury
in a number of tables. The results showed that alpha
and beta amatoxins were detected in Don samples. This was
the same for Ian Wilkinson's samples, but the court heard
that samples taken from Gail and Heather did not show
any presence of these two toxins.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Now, samples were also taken from Aaron Pattison and her
kids Laura. What were the results.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Again, the court heard that there was no detection of
alpha and beta abatoxins. The jury is set to hear
from doctor Girista Mulis tomorrow, but it is worth noting
that in the prosecution opening, the jury heard that Don,
Gail and Heather's autopsy reports all show that their deaths
were compatible with the consumption of deathcat mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Now, let's move on to our last witness that took
to the stand today. Child Protection worker Katrina Cripps spoke
to Erin on August one, which was three days after
the lunch. She told the jury that Aaron spoke to
her about her relationship with Simon.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Our listeners may remember that in twenty twenty two, Simon
and Erin had a dispute relating to child support and
that formed the basis of some of the discussions between
Erin and Miss Cripps. She told the court that Erin
had told her that Simon had been mean in the past,
but he had never been nasty, but it was at
the time of the child support dispute that this changed
(08:00):
and she felt he had become nasty.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Miss Cripps also told the jury that Aaron told her
that Donn and Gale had been parents she had never had,
and they always treated her like a daughter in law,
but when her relationship changed with Simon, she felt like
they isolated her. Erin also spoke to Miss Cripps about
the lunch what was said Laura.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Miss Cripps asked Erin several questions about both the before
and the after of the lunch. She said that Erin
had told her she started to feel ill in the
evening the day of the lunch, so that being July
twenty nine, but she described having to drive her son's
friend home that evening. Our listeners may remember this evidence
(08:42):
from last week. Miss Cripps told the court that Erin
was worried that she was going to have an accident
while she was in the car, and when they stopped
off at the supermarket, she felt like she couldn't get
out of the car for these reasons.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
So Miss Cripps told the jury that Aaron sitting down
in the car was essentially a cork for her diarrhea.
Justice Bill questioned Miss Cripps on the word cork and
whether Erin actually said that, and Miss Cripps confirmed that
Aaron did use the word.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Miss Cripps was also questioned at length, both during her
evidence in chief and cross examination about what Erin told
her about the lunch and specifically how much of her
Beef Wellington she ate. Miss Cripps was given permission to
look at notes that her colleague had made during their
interview with Erin back on August one, a few days
(09:35):
after the lunch, and according to these notes, Miss Cripps
said that Aaron's response when asked how much of the
beef wellington meal she ate, was half.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
And Miss Cripps also asked Aarin whether she picked the mushrooms.
Aaron did not reply and instead was just looking at
her phone.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And before we finish off today, we will touch on
the fact that a best selling cookbook was drawn into
murder trial.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, that's correct. The jury heard that Aaron used a
beef Wellington recipe from recipe Tineats by Nagi Mahashi. And
that's not the only reason Recipe tin Eads has been
in the news recently, but that's another story for now.
Head to the mushroomcook dot com dot a U for
more updates on the case.
We've just come out of court and a major development
has happened in the trial of Aaron Patterson.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
That's right, Brook, a jura has been dismissed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And what did Justice Christopher Bill say?
Speaker 2 (00:16):
So he brought in all of the jurors to the
courtroom this morning. There were fifteen in the beginning, but
by this stage only fourteen were brought into the court
and he told them that one of their fellow jurors had.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Been discharged and did he give a reason.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
He told the jury that he had received information about
this juror and that he was allegedly discussing the case
with his family and friends against Justice Bill's instructions.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
And then Justice Bill reminded the jury that they should
only discuss the case with their fellow jurors in the
privacy of the jury room.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
He reiterated to the jury that he had not made
a positive finding that this jury member definitely had discussed
the case with his family and friends, but rather he
couldn't dismiss the possibility that he had.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Thanks Laura, we'll head back to our makeshift podcast studio
in our airbnb to discuss this further. I'm Brook Grabert,
Craig and this is the mushroom cook. I'm back with
my colleague, court reporter Laura Possella. Laura, what a day.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yes, it's been a big one.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Let's dissect it a bit more. What does this mean
for the trial?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, the fact that a juror has been discharged actually
doesn't mean too much. So there are fifteen jurors who
were mpaneled in this case when it started about three
weeks ago, but now we're at fourteen. However, only twelve
people will decide this case. So once all the evidence
has been heard and the closing addresses have been given,
(01:48):
only two jurors will now be balloted off instead of
three to get to that magic number of twelve. And
as our listeners may actually remember from one of our
first episodes, Justice Beale told the jury once they were unpaneled,
that they were allowed to talk about the fact that
they were sitting in on the Aaron Patterson trial. They
could even mention that the case was expected to run
(02:09):
for six weeks and the times they might be required
to come to court, But he made it very clear
that they weren't to get into a discussion with their
family and friends about the case. He said to them
shut down any attempt to draw you into conversation about it.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Great, now let's move on. We've spoken a bit about
the leftovers of that beef welling to meal throughout our
podcast episodes. So we said that it was fish from
a bin by a local police officer, then transported with
Aaron in an ambulance to Monash Medical Center, and we
described on yesterday's episode how it was examined by doctor
(02:48):
Kimille Truong. Today the jury heard from forensic toxicologist Dmitri
giro Stimulis. He was the one that examined the samples
of that leftover meal after a came to him from
doctor Truon.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Yes, So the journey of these leftovers continues. So, like
you mentioned, they've gone from doctor Trung's office at the
Royal Botanic Gardens. We're not quite sure exactly where they've
been over the course of August, but by August twenty
nine they're at a laboratory where they're being tested. Doctor
Girista Mulis works for the Victorian Institute of Forensic Medicine
(03:25):
and he spoke today about the analysis of toxicology and
how exactly they come to their conclusions. He was asked
today about this by Crown Prosecutor Sarah Lenthal. These are
their words, it's not their voices.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
I'm going to start with the portions of food before
I get to the results of your analysis of the
portions of food. The jury has heard evidence in this
case from a mycologist called Camille Truong who examined little
pieces of mushroom from this same portion of food under
a microscope, and she did not find any death cat mushrooms.
Can you explain to the jury the difference between that
(04:01):
microscopic exam and what you did here.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
Microscopic exam is different to what we undertake. We undertake
an analysis at much lower levels than what the naked
eye can actually detect or identify. We don't rely on
visual detection of compounds. We rely on sensitive instruments to
be able to detect very low quantities that are not visible.
So I'm not saying that they weren't visible in the
(04:26):
sample that was analyzed, but they'd be difficult in the
small amounts, particularly if they'd been put into food, to
identify as death cap mushrooms. So the only real way
of identifying poisons that have been put in food or
in other preparations is analytically and that's usually done by
labiotories such as ours.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
So essentially, he said he was not looking for the
visual aspects of mushrooms, but rather the chemical compounds of
the death cap mushroom. Laura, what did he actually find
in the leftovers?
Speaker 2 (05:00):
So, just to take a step back, today really was
another lesson for the jury, this time in the toxins
you find in death caps, which are called amatoxins, and
there's two in particular that are very lethal, alpha amanitan
and beta amaniton. The court heard that these leftovers were
tested in the lab and they were specifically looking for
(05:23):
these two toxins. Photos were shown to the jury of
the leftovers and you could see that the toxicologists had
separated the leftovers into pastry samples, mushroom paste, and meat.
They ran their tests and the court heard that one
sample of the mushroom paste and one sample of the
(05:44):
meat tested positive for beta amaneiton. So again that is
one of the toxins found in death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Now, debris from the dehydrator was also tested. What was
found on that at some.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Point in time sample have been taken from this dehydrata
of vegetable matter, and this is what the toxicologists were
testing at their lab. The jury were shown the results
of their tests and four samples of the debris again
tested positive for both alpha amaneitan and beta amaniton.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
The jury heard samples from the lunch guests were also
tested for amatoxins. This included samples of their blood, hair
and urine, and even liquid from Don Pattison's eye.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
The results of these tests were shown to the jury
in a number of tables. The results showed that alpha
and beta amatoxins were detected in Don samples. This was
the same for Ian Wilkinson's samples, but the court heard
that samples taken from Gail and Heather did not show
any presence of these two toxins.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Now, samples were also taken from Aaron Pattison and her
kids Laura. What were the results.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Again, the court heard that there was no detection of
alpha and beta abatoxins. The jury is set to hear
from doctor Girista Mulis tomorrow, but it is worth noting
that in the prosecution opening, the jury heard that Don,
Gail and Heather's autopsy reports all show that their deaths
were compatible with the consumption of deathcat mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Now, let's move on to our last witness that took
to the stand today. Child Protection worker Katrina Cripps spoke
to Erin on August one, which was three days after
the lunch. She told the jury that Aaron spoke to
her about her relationship with Simon.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Our listeners may remember that in twenty twenty two, Simon
and Erin had a dispute relating to child support and
that formed the basis of some of the discussions between
Erin and Miss Cripps. She told the court that Erin
had told her that Simon had been mean in the past,
but he had never been nasty, but it was at
the time of the child support dispute that this changed
(08:00):
and she felt he had become nasty.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Miss Cripps also told the jury that Aaron told her
that Donn and Gale had been parents she had never had,
and they always treated her like a daughter in law,
but when her relationship changed with Simon, she felt like
they isolated her. Erin also spoke to Miss Cripps about
the lunch what was said Laura.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Miss Cripps asked Erin several questions about both the before
and the after of the lunch. She said that Erin
had told her she started to feel ill in the
evening the day of the lunch, so that being July
twenty nine, but she described having to drive her son's
friend home that evening. Our listeners may remember this evidence
(08:42):
from last week. Miss Cripps told the court that Erin
was worried that she was going to have an accident
while she was in the car, and when they stopped
off at the supermarket, she felt like she couldn't get
out of the car for these reasons.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
So Miss Cripps told the jury that Aaron sitting down
in the car was essentially a cork for her diarrhea.
Justice Bill questioned Miss Cripps on the word cork and
whether Erin actually said that, and Miss Cripps confirmed that
Aaron did use the word.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Miss Cripps was also questioned at length, both during her
evidence in chief and cross examination about what Erin told
her about the lunch and specifically how much of her
Beef Wellington she ate. Miss Cripps was given permission to
look at notes that her colleague had made during their
interview with Erin back on August one, a few days
(09:35):
after the lunch, and according to these notes, Miss Cripps
said that Aaron's response when asked how much of the
beef wellington meal she ate, was half.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
And Miss Cripps also asked Aarin whether she picked the mushrooms.
Aaron did not reply and instead was just looking at
her phone.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And before we finish off today, we will touch on
the fact that a best selling cookbook was drawn into
murder trial.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yes, that's correct. The jury heard that Aaron used a
beef Wellington recipe from recipe Tineats by Nagi Mahashi. And
that's not the only reason Recipe tin Eads has been
in the news recently, but that's another story for now.
Head to the mushroomcook dot com dot a U for
more updates on the case.
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