June 26, 2025 • 13 mins
Justice Christopher Beale spent today summarising the evidence and the arguments in the trial of Erin Patterson, but he also had specific instructions for the jury when it came to two points put forward by the prosecution.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Justice Christopher Bill got into the thick of it today
in his charge to the jury in the trial of
Aaron Patterson. He took a magnifying glass to the evidence
as he stepped through the testimony of more than a
dozen witnesses, summarized the lawyer's arguments, and even instructed the
jury to disregard two points made by the Crown. We'll
(00:21):
talk about this and more of what he said in
court today. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig, and this is the
Mushroom Cook. We have just finished day thirty eight of
Aaron Patterson's murder trial, and as always I'm joined by
my colleague, court reporter Laura PLOSSELLA Hey, Brook, how are you.
I'm good, Thanks, how.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Are you not bad?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Let's start now. The first thing that Justice Bill did
this morning was give the jurors an update on the
trial timeline.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
He's provided them with a few updates this week, but
this one felt a lot more definitive. He told them
that his charge would continue for the rest of today, Thursday,
go into Tomorrow Friday, and then he would finally finish
on Monday. By that stage, there'll be two jurors. He'll
be balloted off. So right now, to remind our listeners,
(01:11):
there are fourteen jurors. After we lost one earlier in
the trial, two will be balloted off to leave us
with the magic number of twelve, and then they'll start
their deliberations. But once they're done for the day, they
won't go home. They'll be busted to local accommodation to
be sequestered, and then they'll return the next day to
the Latrobe Valley Law Courts to continue deliberating.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So this will all be taking place in week ten
of the trial.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, and I really can't believe that at any stage
we thought this would actually just go for five weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Crazy. So Justice Bill then returned to the topic of
incriminating conduct today.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
He did so. We ran through the list yesterday of
all of the alleged incriminating conduct that is being put
forward by the prosecution. Justice Bill only got a chance
yesterday to make his way through one of those points,
and he spent the rest of the day making his
way through the list. This involves a lot of summary.
He is essentially summarizing up to seven weeks of evidence
(02:11):
and then turning to summaries of the prosecution and the
defense arguments. So today, when we make our way through
it ourselves, a lot of this will probably sound familiar
to our listeners. But this is Justice Beale really preparing
the jury for their deliberations. There is so much evidence
in this case that the judge's charge involves these summations
(02:32):
to make sure they're best placed when it is time
to commence those important deliberations.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So let's move to the first point. He began summarizing
the evidence relating to Aaron allegedly lying about using dried
mushrooms from an Asian grosser in the beef welling to
mill that she cooked on July twenty nine, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
This was the point that Justice Beal spent the longest
on today. I think he finished with this topic just
before lunchtime, and the reason for this was he essentially
had to go through the evidence of almost a dozen witnesses.
There were a lot of people Erin spoke to in
the days after the lunch about the source of the mushrooms.
She was speaking to doctors at Lingatha Hospital. She was
(03:14):
speaking to Senior Public Health Advisor Sally ane Atkinson, and
speaking to child protection worker Katrina Cripps for the most part.
All of these witnesses testified that Aaron told them she
used button mushrooms from a local Woolworths and dried mushrooms
from an Asian grocer, but she could not remember the
exact location of that shop. Justice Bill also summarized the
(03:36):
evidence from Erin and how she realized in the days
after the lunch that mushrooms she had foraged and dehydrated
may have ended up in a container with the dried
mushrooms from the Asian grocer. This was the container, she
said she grabbed and tipped into the mushroom duct cell,
believing at the time that it only contained the dried
mushrooms from the Asian grocer.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Justice Build then outlined what the prosecution alleges. Here's what
he said. It's his words, but not his voice.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
The prosecution argued. She sat on her hands, slow to
respond to the Department of Health, not responsive at times
giving evidence. She appeared to have a remarkable memory. She
could remember the twenty eighth of April twenty twenty three
was a Friday and not a Monday, but she couldn't
recall the shop or even the suburb. Beggar's belief. He
(04:26):
went on Most importantly, they argue, no one else got sick.
Monash Council had no complaints. The department had no reports
of people falling ill. And why would she dehydrate already
dried mushrooms. She told you the dehydrated mushrooms weren't as crisp,
so she whacked them into the dehydrator. They argued that
(04:48):
was a ridiculous lie to keep the possibility that an
Asian store was the source of death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Justice Bill then told the jury that the defense claims
the prosecution cherry picked their evidence.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It was argued the prosecution ignored the nuances of human behavior.
They argued, she was consistent with where the mushrooms came from.
She had many conversations with many people, He went on.
But things get recounted and it goes down the line.
Big details get minimized, forgotten, altered. There were approximately twenty
(05:22):
one people who spoke to Aaron Patterson in twenty four hours,
and memory is not a video recording. Time plays a part.
Delays can affect recollection of events. None of the witnesses,
including Aaron Patterson, is immune. Recollection can be unreliable even
when a person is trying to be honest.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Justice Bill then moved on to summarize the evidence relating
to Aaron allegedly lying about feeding her children the leftovers
of the beef willing to mill with the mushrooms and
pastry scraped off.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Just like he did with the previous allegation. He took
the jury to the evidence of sir witnesses. Here it
was the evidence from Simon Patterson, Erin's estranged husband, and
her two children. He also brought them back to her
evidence as well. He said that Erin testified that she
scraped off the mushrooms and pastry from the six beef
wellington she prepared before serving the meat to her children
(06:18):
with mashed potato and beans. He also reminded the jury
that Erin said that the leftovers found in her outside
bin comprised the scraped off mushrooms and pastry as well
as the remainder of her beef wellington that she didn't
eat at the lunch. Justice Bial then took the jury
to the evidence of Erin's son, who told an investigator
that his mum said to him and his sister that
(06:39):
night that Don and Gale were unwell. He remembers his mum,
saying to him that she thought the cause of the
illness could have been the lunch, Justice Bill said.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
The prosecution argued that, considering the children did not experience
any symptoms, her story about feeding them the leftovers must
be a lie to cover her tracks. He also added
that the prosecution had questioned why Aaron would feed the
leftovers to her children when there was evidence to suggest
(07:09):
she knew by that stage on July thirty, that Don
and Gale were unwell.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It was at this stage that Justice Biele actually told
the jury to disregard two arguments made by Crown Prosecutor
Nnette Rodgers in her closing address. The first argument related
to the fact that doctor Rogers asserted that, even though
they were scraped off, the toxins from the death caps
would have penetrated the meat that Aaron served her children.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Doctor Rogers overstated what the evidence was, So you disregard
that argument that the amatoxins penetrated the meat. It's not
necessarily so, Justice Beale said.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
The second argument related to the fact that doctor Rogers
asserted that the children would have experienced symptoms if they
had eaten the leftovers of the six beef Wellington, but
he told the jury no expert witness was asked whether
they would have expected the children to have experienced these
symptoms after eating the meat with the mushrooms and pastry
(08:08):
scraped off.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
You have no expert evidence as to whether that would
be the case, and so I direct you to disregard
the argument. You would be speculating if you would go
down that path.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Justice Bill said. The defense argued that if Aaron knew
there were death caps in the meal, why would she
tell people leftovers existed at all? The defense said it
made no sense on the prosecution case that Aaron discarded
the meat of the six beef Wellington and put the
rest in her outside bin.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Why get rid of meat but keep the mushroom, paste
and pastry? Why put the pastry in the binners a
deliberate ruse. The simple explanation is the much more likely explanation,
She scraped off the paste and fed the meat to
her children.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Justice Bill then summarized the evidence relating to Aarin allegedly
refusing to obtain treatment for her children.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He took the jury to the evidence of witnesses from
lean Gatha Hospital, including doctor Veronica Foote and nurse Carlie Ashton,
as well as the evidence of Erin. Once again, he said,
the prosecution argued that Erin was reluctant to have her
children assessed because she knew that they had not consumed
death cat mushrooms. But on the other hand, he said,
the defense argued that Miss Ashton was wrong when she
(09:24):
said she found out that Erin's children had consumed the
leftovers on her first presentation to the hospital. He said.
The defense claimed that her memory of this was inconsistent
with the evidence of her colleagues, who said that they
found out that Erin's children had eaten the leftovers when
Erin returned to hospital later that morning. On July thirty one,
(09:45):
Justice Bill said the defense argued that when Erin returned
to hospital and was told that the toxins could have
penetrated the meat and that her children might be in danger,
that she made arrangements for them to be brought to
hospital straightaway.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Justice Bell moved on to some the evidence relating to
Erin discarding her dehydrator at Kunwarra Tip on August two.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It is worth noting that Erin has admitted to dumping
her dehydrata, so this isn't alleged conduct, but the defense
argued that it shouldn't be used as incriminating conduct. Justice
Bell reminded the jury that Aaron testified that she panicked
after she said Simon accused her of poisoning his parents
with the dehydrater. Eron told the jury she was scared
(10:29):
she would be blamed for making everyone sick, and so
she took her dehydrata to the tip you mentioned brook
and dumped it there. Justice Bill brought the jury back
to the four deceptions alleged by the prosecution in its
closing address, including the sustained cover up, which did involve
erin getting rid of the appliance, he said. The prosecution argued, though,
(10:50):
that the panic Erin said she was experiencing did not
explain the extensive and prolonged cover up she ended up
embarking on.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
But on the other hand, Bill said, the defense argued
that if Aaron was planning a murder, she would have
disposed of the dehydrator much earlier.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
She disposed of it when she did, Mister Mandy argued
because she panicked and people would wrongly think that she
poisoned them poisoned the lunch guests deliberately.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Justice Bill then turned to the evidence relating to Aarin
resetting Phone B multiple times, providing police phone B instead
of Phone A, and lying about her phone number ending
in eight three five. During her record of interview.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
He reminded the jury that the prosecution alleged that Aaron
concealed Phone A, her usual phone, from police during a
search of her house, and instead handed over Phone B,
a dummy phone which she factory reset multiple times. He said,
the prosecution argued that Erin concealed Phone A because she
knew it would implicate her in the deliberate poisoning of
(11:55):
her guests, but alternatively, he said, the defense argued that
Aaron would not have gone to the trouble of setting
up Phone B as a dummy phone, since it would
have been much easier for her to factory reset Phone
A and simply discard it straight after the lunch.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Justice Bill added that Aaron testified that Phone A was
not seized during the search and was left on a
window sill untouched by police. She also testified that she
set up phone B because Phone A was damaged and
she wanted to change phone numbers after Simon accused her
of poisoning his parents.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Referring to Erin's testimony, Justice Bill said that the defense
argued that the prosecution was coming up with convoluted theories
for why there was an absence of evidence, and the
explanations that Erin provided were the most reasonable.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And with that, Justiceville told the jury he will continue
to summarize the remainder of the alleged incriminating conduct tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And then he'll move on with the rest of his charge.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Thanks Laura, see you then
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Four
Justice Christopher Bill got into the thick of it today
in his charge to the jury in the trial of
Aaron Patterson. He took a magnifying glass to the evidence
as he stepped through the testimony of more than a
dozen witnesses, summarized the lawyer's arguments, and even instructed the
jury to disregard two points made by the Crown. We'll
(00:21):
talk about this and more of what he said in
court today. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig, and this is the
Mushroom Cook. We have just finished day thirty eight of
Aaron Patterson's murder trial, and as always I'm joined by
my colleague, court reporter Laura PLOSSELLA Hey, Brook, how are you.
I'm good, Thanks, how.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Are you not bad?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Let's start now. The first thing that Justice Bill did
this morning was give the jurors an update on the
trial timeline.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
He's provided them with a few updates this week, but
this one felt a lot more definitive. He told them
that his charge would continue for the rest of today, Thursday,
go into Tomorrow Friday, and then he would finally finish
on Monday. By that stage, there'll be two jurors. He'll
be balloted off. So right now, to remind our listeners,
(01:11):
there are fourteen jurors. After we lost one earlier in
the trial, two will be balloted off to leave us
with the magic number of twelve, and then they'll start
their deliberations. But once they're done for the day, they
won't go home. They'll be busted to local accommodation to
be sequestered, and then they'll return the next day to
the Latrobe Valley Law Courts to continue deliberating.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
So this will all be taking place in week ten
of the trial.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, and I really can't believe that at any stage
we thought this would actually just go for five weeks.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Crazy. So Justice Bill then returned to the topic of
incriminating conduct today.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
He did so. We ran through the list yesterday of
all of the alleged incriminating conduct that is being put
forward by the prosecution. Justice Bill only got a chance
yesterday to make his way through one of those points,
and he spent the rest of the day making his
way through the list. This involves a lot of summary.
He is essentially summarizing up to seven weeks of evidence
(02:11):
and then turning to summaries of the prosecution and the
defense arguments. So today, when we make our way through
it ourselves, a lot of this will probably sound familiar
to our listeners. But this is Justice Beale really preparing
the jury for their deliberations. There is so much evidence
in this case that the judge's charge involves these summations
(02:32):
to make sure they're best placed when it is time
to commence those important deliberations.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
So let's move to the first point. He began summarizing
the evidence relating to Aaron allegedly lying about using dried
mushrooms from an Asian grosser in the beef welling to
mill that she cooked on July twenty nine, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
This was the point that Justice Beal spent the longest
on today. I think he finished with this topic just
before lunchtime, and the reason for this was he essentially
had to go through the evidence of almost a dozen witnesses.
There were a lot of people Erin spoke to in
the days after the lunch about the source of the mushrooms.
She was speaking to doctors at Lingatha Hospital. She was
(03:14):
speaking to Senior Public Health Advisor Sally ane Atkinson, and
speaking to child protection worker Katrina Cripps for the most part.
All of these witnesses testified that Aaron told them she
used button mushrooms from a local Woolworths and dried mushrooms
from an Asian grocer, but she could not remember the
exact location of that shop. Justice Bill also summarized the
(03:36):
evidence from Erin and how she realized in the days
after the lunch that mushrooms she had foraged and dehydrated
may have ended up in a container with the dried
mushrooms from the Asian grocer. This was the container, she
said she grabbed and tipped into the mushroom duct cell,
believing at the time that it only contained the dried
mushrooms from the Asian grocer.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Justice Build then outlined what the prosecution alleges. Here's what
he said. It's his words, but not his voice.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
The prosecution argued. She sat on her hands, slow to
respond to the Department of Health, not responsive at times
giving evidence. She appeared to have a remarkable memory. She
could remember the twenty eighth of April twenty twenty three
was a Friday and not a Monday, but she couldn't
recall the shop or even the suburb. Beggar's belief. He
(04:26):
went on Most importantly, they argue, no one else got sick.
Monash Council had no complaints. The department had no reports
of people falling ill. And why would she dehydrate already
dried mushrooms. She told you the dehydrated mushrooms weren't as crisp,
so she whacked them into the dehydrator. They argued that
(04:48):
was a ridiculous lie to keep the possibility that an
Asian store was the source of death cap mushrooms.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Justice Bill then told the jury that the defense claims
the prosecution cherry picked their evidence.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
It was argued the prosecution ignored the nuances of human behavior.
They argued, she was consistent with where the mushrooms came from.
She had many conversations with many people, He went on.
But things get recounted and it goes down the line.
Big details get minimized, forgotten, altered. There were approximately twenty
(05:22):
one people who spoke to Aaron Patterson in twenty four hours,
and memory is not a video recording. Time plays a part.
Delays can affect recollection of events. None of the witnesses,
including Aaron Patterson, is immune. Recollection can be unreliable even
when a person is trying to be honest.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Justice Bill then moved on to summarize the evidence relating
to Aaron allegedly lying about feeding her children the leftovers
of the beef willing to mill with the mushrooms and
pastry scraped off.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Just like he did with the previous allegation. He took
the jury to the evidence of sir witnesses. Here it
was the evidence from Simon Patterson, Erin's estranged husband, and
her two children. He also brought them back to her
evidence as well. He said that Erin testified that she
scraped off the mushrooms and pastry from the six beef
wellington she prepared before serving the meat to her children
(06:18):
with mashed potato and beans. He also reminded the jury
that Erin said that the leftovers found in her outside
bin comprised the scraped off mushrooms and pastry as well
as the remainder of her beef wellington that she didn't
eat at the lunch. Justice Bial then took the jury
to the evidence of Erin's son, who told an investigator
that his mum said to him and his sister that
(06:39):
night that Don and Gale were unwell. He remembers his mum,
saying to him that she thought the cause of the
illness could have been the lunch, Justice Bill said.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
The prosecution argued that, considering the children did not experience
any symptoms, her story about feeding them the leftovers must
be a lie to cover her tracks. He also added
that the prosecution had questioned why Aaron would feed the
leftovers to her children when there was evidence to suggest
(07:09):
she knew by that stage on July thirty, that Don
and Gale were unwell.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
It was at this stage that Justice Biele actually told
the jury to disregard two arguments made by Crown Prosecutor
Nnette Rodgers in her closing address. The first argument related
to the fact that doctor Rogers asserted that, even though
they were scraped off, the toxins from the death caps
would have penetrated the meat that Aaron served her children.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Doctor Rogers overstated what the evidence was, So you disregard
that argument that the amatoxins penetrated the meat. It's not
necessarily so, Justice Beale said.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
The second argument related to the fact that doctor Rogers
asserted that the children would have experienced symptoms if they
had eaten the leftovers of the six beef Wellington, but
he told the jury no expert witness was asked whether
they would have expected the children to have experienced these
symptoms after eating the meat with the mushrooms and pastry
(08:08):
scraped off.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
You have no expert evidence as to whether that would
be the case, and so I direct you to disregard
the argument. You would be speculating if you would go
down that path.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Justice Bill said. The defense argued that if Aaron knew
there were death caps in the meal, why would she
tell people leftovers existed at all? The defense said it
made no sense on the prosecution case that Aaron discarded
the meat of the six beef Wellington and put the
rest in her outside bin.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Why get rid of meat but keep the mushroom, paste
and pastry? Why put the pastry in the binners a
deliberate ruse. The simple explanation is the much more likely explanation,
She scraped off the paste and fed the meat to
her children.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
Justice Bill then summarized the evidence relating to Aarin allegedly
refusing to obtain treatment for her children.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
He took the jury to the evidence of witnesses from
lean Gatha Hospital, including doctor Veronica Foote and nurse Carlie Ashton,
as well as the evidence of Erin. Once again, he said,
the prosecution argued that Erin was reluctant to have her
children assessed because she knew that they had not consumed
death cat mushrooms. But on the other hand, he said,
the defense argued that Miss Ashton was wrong when she
(09:24):
said she found out that Erin's children had consumed the
leftovers on her first presentation to the hospital. He said.
The defense claimed that her memory of this was inconsistent
with the evidence of her colleagues, who said that they
found out that Erin's children had eaten the leftovers when
Erin returned to hospital later that morning. On July thirty one,
(09:45):
Justice Bill said the defense argued that when Erin returned
to hospital and was told that the toxins could have
penetrated the meat and that her children might be in danger,
that she made arrangements for them to be brought to
hospital straightaway.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Justice Bell moved on to some the evidence relating to
Erin discarding her dehydrator at Kunwarra Tip on August two.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It is worth noting that Erin has admitted to dumping
her dehydrata, so this isn't alleged conduct, but the defense
argued that it shouldn't be used as incriminating conduct. Justice
Bell reminded the jury that Aaron testified that she panicked
after she said Simon accused her of poisoning his parents
with the dehydrater. Eron told the jury she was scared
(10:29):
she would be blamed for making everyone sick, and so
she took her dehydrata to the tip you mentioned brook
and dumped it there. Justice Bill brought the jury back
to the four deceptions alleged by the prosecution in its
closing address, including the sustained cover up, which did involve
erin getting rid of the appliance, he said. The prosecution argued, though,
(10:50):
that the panic Erin said she was experiencing did not
explain the extensive and prolonged cover up she ended up
embarking on.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
But on the other hand, Bill said, the defense argued
that if Aaron was planning a murder, she would have
disposed of the dehydrator much earlier.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
She disposed of it when she did, Mister Mandy argued
because she panicked and people would wrongly think that she
poisoned them poisoned the lunch guests deliberately.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Justice Bill then turned to the evidence relating to Aarin
resetting Phone B multiple times, providing police phone B instead
of Phone A, and lying about her phone number ending
in eight three five. During her record of interview.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
He reminded the jury that the prosecution alleged that Aaron
concealed Phone A, her usual phone, from police during a
search of her house, and instead handed over Phone B,
a dummy phone which she factory reset multiple times. He said,
the prosecution argued that Erin concealed Phone A because she
knew it would implicate her in the deliberate poisoning of
(11:55):
her guests, but alternatively, he said, the defense argued that
Aaron would not have gone to the trouble of setting
up Phone B as a dummy phone, since it would
have been much easier for her to factory reset Phone
A and simply discard it straight after the lunch.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Justice Bill added that Aaron testified that Phone A was
not seized during the search and was left on a
window sill untouched by police. She also testified that she
set up phone B because Phone A was damaged and
she wanted to change phone numbers after Simon accused her
of poisoning his parents.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Referring to Erin's testimony, Justice Bill said that the defense
argued that the prosecution was coming up with convoluted theories
for why there was an absence of evidence, and the
explanations that Erin provided were the most reasonable.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And with that, Justiceville told the jury he will continue
to summarize the remainder of the alleged incriminating conduct tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
And then he'll move on with the rest of his charge.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Thanks Laura, see you then
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Four
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