August 7, 2025 • 19 mins
A trip to the tip, a doctor's testimony and information on “common homicidal poisons” were all raised in pre-trial, but this evidence – and more – was kept secret from the jury.
The Mushroom Cook team is Brooke Grebert-Craig, Laura Placella, Anthony Dowsley, Jordy Atkinson and Jonty Burton.
The Mushroom Cook is a Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In a courtroom in Melbourne. Today, Justice Christopher Bill made
a ruling. It didn't take very long, but it was
very important in the case of Aaron Patterson because throughout
the trial there was information the jury never got to hear,
and for the first time we can tell you all
about it. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig and this is the
(00:21):
Mushroom Cook. Hi Laura, welcome back for another podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So today we'll be touching on everything that the jury
didn't know.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And I will just say from the top, I have
been waiting months to talk about this, so let's get
it underway. So it all goes back to the pre
trial hearings that US journalists are allowed to sit in on,
and these happened throughout late last year and early this year.
So all of the lawyers came together as well as
the witnesses. They were brought in one by one to
(00:54):
give evidence in these hearings so the lawyers could hear
what they had to say before the trial kicked off.
After they heard from all the witnesses, everyone came back
for some dense legal argument. And this legal argument was
really about the defense team trying to get evidence thrown
out of trial. But on the other hand, it was
(01:14):
the prosecution fighting really hard to make sure it stayed in.
So after all of this discussion was over, just as
Christopher Beale came back and he delivered his rulings, and
he was effectively deciding what would stay in and what
would stay out. Everything that stayed in was all of
the evidence that our listeners would have heard us speak
about over the course of the trial. But now we
(01:36):
can talk about what was kept secret from the jury.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, let's get into it. Let's go back to the lunch.
The jury heard that Aaron made one trip to the
tip to dump that dehydrator, but what they didn't know
is that she made a trip to the same tip
on the day of the lunch.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yes, and this was something that we learned at pre trial. So,
as you said, Brook, she dumped the dehydrat on August two.
But if we rewind back to the lunch on July
twenty nine, the guests left at around two forty five.
Ian said that he had to tend to some church duties,
so everyone jumped in the car and they left. What
we found out was that forty five minutes after they
(02:18):
had left Erin also departed her house and she went
to the Koonwarra Tip and what the prosecution said she
did was dump other items from the lunch. One of
the other Crown prosecutors, Sarah Lenthal, said there was an
element of secrecy about this trip because her son and
his friend were at home at the time and she
(02:39):
didn't tell them that she was leaving to go to
the tip, and Miss Leenthal said that was an unusual occurrence.
She would usually always tell her children when she was
leaving the home, even if it was only for a
short while.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And I guess one would think if you're not telling
your child where you were going, then it's usually something
that you don't want them to know.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Potentially, and that's why miss Lenthal said there felt like
there was an element of secrecy around this trip, so
she fought really hard for the jury to hear this.
The prosecution wanted the jury to know that only forty
five minutes after hosting this lunch, she was at the
tip disposing of some items. Thought mister Mandy argued was
we actually didn't know what she dumped at all. The
(03:23):
business records from the tip stated that some cardboard was
left by Erin, but we have no idea what else
she left. So he told the court that what she
could have disposed of that day could have been completely innocent.
He said it was in the realm of speculation, and
I think the words he used were it was just
a visit to the tip. So for this reason, he
(03:44):
said that the jury shouldn't know about this trip. It
should stay secret because it was going to be too
unfair to his client.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So you're telling me Aaron went to the Tip of
forty five minutes after her guests left that deadly beef
Wellington lunch.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yes, and the jury had no idea. In fact, there
was actually a discussion in the middle of the trial
in the absence of the jury, where they were debating
how they should redact these business records from the Tip
to hide that trip from the jury.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Now, let's talk about the charges relating to Simon that
were dropped.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So this happened at the very beginning of the trial.
I think it was our second podcast episode where we
brought to our listeners the news that three attempted murder
charges that Aaron was facing had been dropped by prosecutors.
The jury were told on the first day that these
charges had been dropped and they should put them out
of their mind. They weren't going to form part of
(04:41):
the trial. To justice Bee really emphasized that they should
not be turning their minds to them.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
But the jury didn't hear any contexts as to what
the charges.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Were, none at all. They only heard that there were
three charges of attempted murder. And you and I were
sitting in court, and all of the other journalists as well,
we all knew that context, but we couldn't quite talk
about it yet.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And we knew that context because that's something that we
all heard in pre trial.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
What we knew but the jury didn't know, was that
on three occasions, Simon said Erin tried to kill him
by feeding him poisoned food. He told the court during
pre trial that he had stopped eating Erin's food because
he believed she had tried to kill him on these
occasions while they were camping in the Victorian Bush.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think it's interesting to point out when they were camping,
they were actually separated, so they weren't together.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, that's right. So these camping trips took place in
November twenty twenty one May twenty twenty two and November
twenty twenty two, all before that fateful lunch in twenty
twenty three. Our listeners may remember that when he was
asked at trial why he didn't attend the lunch on
July twenty nine, he simply said he was too uncomfortable.
(05:56):
He gave no further answer to that question, and he
wasn't allowed to No, he wasn't. He had to essentially
keep his lip sealed because all of this information about
happened to him wasn't to be heard by the jury.
But I will say Brook, you were on top of
this before many other people were. You were recovering this
story in the days after the lunch, and you discovered
(06:17):
that Simon had battled a mystery gut illness in May
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, that's correct. So if I take us back to
August twenty twenty three, when the story broke, I was
in leng Gatha looking into it a bit more, and
I came across a post that Simon made on Facebook
in a local community group where he spoke more about
this mystery gut illness that he was suffering from. And obviously,
at that time two years ago, we didn't have any
(06:44):
of the contexts that we have now, But we ran
that story and other media outlets followed, and in the
following days, I received a tip off that actually came
to my inbox, and I had a source that said
that they knew more about Simon's mystery gun illness, and
this person told me that Simon believed that Aaron had
(07:08):
tried to poison him on multiple occasions. I trusted this
source and we ended up running this story. So for
me personally, it was very interesting to find out more
of the contexts of Simon's illnesses, knowing that I had
written these past stories.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
And in terms of the timeline, Aaron was charged in
November twenty twenty three over the lunch, but then there
were these three attempted murder charges relating to Simon and
these camping trips. But what we then found out in
pre trial was there was actually a fourth meal she
fed him that he said made him sick.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
But we'll let our colleagues veteran crime reporter Anthony Dowsley
and court reporter ash Argoon, who our listeners heard from
in season one, talk about this more in detail in
another episode. Another interesting thing that came out at pre
trial is that Simon said that he had had multiple
media inquiries with publications asking him to tell his story.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yes, and he said that he may sell his story
for considerable financial reward were the terms he used. And
he said that could take the form of a major interview,
a book, or even a TV show.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So we'll have to wait and see really whether he
goes down that pathway.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Who will.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So we've heard that these were alleged poisonings. Why were
these charges dropped in the end.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That's a really great question. During these pre trial proceedings
that we've been speaking about, Crown Prosecutor Undernette Rodgers fought
really hard for all of these charges, so both the
lunch charges and Simon charges to be heard together by
the same jury. But simply her argument was that when
all of these circumstances were heard together, they provided context
(08:50):
for one another and the jury could take a step
back after hearing all of this evidence and come to
the conclusion that all of this could not be a coincidents.
It could not be a coincidence that Simon on three
occasions and his relatives at the lunch all fell ill
from eating Eron's food and it be an accident each time.
(09:12):
So that was the argument that was made by the prosecution.
But the defense argued in reply that for all of
these things to be heard at the same time by
the same jury, it would be too unfair to erin,
it would be unfairly prejudicial. And they particularly argued this
because we actually didn't know that much about these illnesses
that Simon suffered when he went to hospital, particularly on
(09:35):
the first occasion. They didn't run every single test under
the sun. And like we just said, the prosecution didn't
even know what poison may have been used on these occasions.
So there was simply not enough evidence, which is why
Justice Biel decided that the Simon charges and the Lunch
charges be heard separately in front of two different juries.
(09:59):
Once that decision was made, the prosecution actually went up
to the Court of Appeal try and get it overturned,
arguing again that this should be heard by one single jury,
but they failed once more. It was at that point
that they decided they had no other choice but to
drop the charges relating to Simon.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Now, Laura, let's talk about the swirling speculation that was
taking place within the community twenty four hours after the
lunch occurred.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So, as I mentioned, at the top of the episode.
More than a dozen witnesses gave evidence in these pre
trial hearings, and we heard a lot from them that
they may not have been able to touch upon at
trial where they had to keep their lips sealed. And
a lot of these suspicions were the things they weren't
allowed to touch on because they started to relate to
(10:47):
these alleged poisonings of Simon.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It would have been really difficult for these witnesses to
not talk about these particular aspects of their evidence exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So before they were giving evidence in the trial, they
were actually getting briefings from the prosecution, and you can
imagine in these briefings, the prosecution are reminding them, remember
you can't talk about X, Y Z. So when I
ask you a question about something, remember not to touch
on a certain element. So they were almost self censoring
in the moment, making sure they didn't put a toe
(11:20):
out of line.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Let's talk about what Simon told Ian and Heather.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So Simon told the jury that the day after the
lunch he went around to Heather and Ian's home to
check in on them because his own parents, Don and
Gale had fallen very ill after the lunch. When he arrived,
he described that Ian looked gray and looked very sick.
What the jury didn't know was at that time, Simon
was honest with his aunt and uncle and he told
(11:47):
them what he believed had happened to him. He divulged
how sick he had become in the past from eating
Aaron's food and said to them that he was worried
the same thing had happened to them. He really urged
them to get to hospital as soon as possible. Ian
did tell the jury at trial that when Simon came over,
(12:08):
he explained to his nephew that he thought it was
just gastro and they were going to wait for it
to pass. But he didn't touch on this conversation he
had with Simon about his suspicions. But at pre trial
he explained that even after hearing this from Simon, him
and Heather still resisted going to hospital, and it was
only after Simon called a doctor or nurse on call
(12:31):
over the phone that they relented and decided that they
should go to hospital. Now let's talk about doctor Chris Webster.
He was one of the doctors who treated Ian and
Heather when they were in hospital. And he also spoke
to Aaron as well. Yes, that's right. And to remind
our listeners, doctor Webster was the person who made that
triple zero call to police when Aaron left the hospital
(12:54):
for the first time after only being there for five minutes.
So to take a step back, doctor Webster told the
court at pre trial that he had started his shift
on July thirty, the day after the lunch, and he
received a call from an old colleague of his, doctor
Chris Ford. So we've got two doctor Chris's here. Doctor
(13:14):
Webster works at len Gatha Hospital and doctor Ford is
a GP and doctor Ford was Simon's GP. He was
treating Simon for a number of months and it was
over that period that Simon was telling him about his
suspicions around Erin and the food she was feeding him.
(13:34):
What doctor Webster recounted was doctor Ford ringing him up
to alert him to the fact that he believed all
of the lunch guests had been deliberately poisoned. He told
doctor Webster to keep a really close eye on the
guests that he was treating because it was not a
case of common food poisoning, but he suspected it was
(13:54):
something much more sinister. He said that at the time
he remembered thinking to himself, this is very bizarre. He
had just started work and all of a sudden he
was in the middle of what was shaping up to
potentially be murder. He then went on to reveal what
he said to a colleague that day. Doctor Webster was
being asked about this at pre trial by Aaron's defense barrister.
(14:16):
This is what he said to him at pre trial.
He said to mister Mandy.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It was a private comment to the nurse, and it
was a facetious comment. So it's embarrassing to say, but
you want me to tell you.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
At this point, mister Mandy beckoned him to keep going.
This is what doctor Webster said.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
He told his colleague, I said, it looks like someone's
trying to take out the church community.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So some might say that that was just a throwaway comment,
or others might think that Dr Webster had suspicions quite
early on.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Exactly, And he said in court he was a little
bit embarrassed that he made this joke, but the comment
really does give you an insight into his mentality at
the time and what he thought might have been going on.
He then explained what happened the next day, on July
thirty one, when Aaron herself arrived at Lengatha Hospital, tensions
were clearly high. So when Aaron walked into the hospital
(15:06):
and told doctor Webster her name, he said he knew
exactly who she was. He said he realized this was
the chef of the lunch who had potentially just tried
to kill all of her guests.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
As we know, Aaron left the hospital after being there
for five minutes.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
At trial, doctor Webster said that when Aaron arrived at hospital,
he told her that she had potentially been exposed to
lethal deathcat mushrooms, but in the back of his mind
you can imagine he was thinking she was not a
victim but a killer.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, finally, let's talk about files that were found on
Aaron's devices.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Investigators search through Erin's devices using some keywords to help
them navigate through everything, and remembering one of these keywords
was poison. So one thing that investigators stumbled upon was
a chapter of a book that was located on a
tablet that was seized from Aaron's house. The book was
called Criminal Poisoning and the title of this chapter was
(16:06):
some common homicidal poisons. As you can imagine, this really
peaked their interest. This chapter detailed the color, the odor, taste,
lethal dose of a handful of poisons, where talking anti
freeze arsnick even cyanide. What it didn't touch on, though,
(16:29):
was toxic mushrooms. Beyond this fact, mister Mandy argued that
there was no evidence that his client downloaded this file,
whether she read the file, or if she did read it,
how much of it she may have read. But he
also said that any interest his client may have had
in poisons could have related to the fact that she
(16:50):
was involved in a true crime group, that being the
Kali Lane group, and he said that when she was
discussing true crime with her friends where poisons were maybe
part of the plot, she may have had to do
some research. We heard that she was a very good researcher,
and he said that she was quite widely read. But
in response to that, Justice Beale remarked that a lot
(17:11):
of people who are widely read aren't looking up poisons.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
But Klly Lane didn't poison anyone, did she.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yes, Kelly Lane is no poisoner. She was found guilty
over the death of her baby who disappeared but we've
come to know now that in this Kelly Lane group,
all of the people involved were talking about a lot
of true crime, not just the Kellilaine case. And mister
Mandy said that Erin might have been looking up poisons
as part of the plots of the crimes they were discussing,
(17:40):
remarking that she was widely read. But Justice Biel said
to him that a lot of people who are widely
read are not looking up poisons. Nonetheless, evidence of this
file was never put before the jury.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And where any other files found.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
There was one more of note, and this was from
a Victorian naturalist journal, so a journal focusing on a
lot of the natural world. And one article that got
police's attention was called an overview of the Fungi of Melbourne.
And this article was written by one and the same
Dr Tom May, who ended up being a prosecution witness
(18:19):
in the case. So clearly Erin may have already been
familiar with some of his work. In this article, there's
a photo of death caps and some description of them.
But mister Mandy brought Justice Bill back to the fact
that the prosecution couldn't say whether she read this article
at all, So it was also kept secret from the jury.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Now, that's a lot of information that we have spoken about,
and I'm sure people would be thinking, why didn't the
jury hear this exactly?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But to put it simply, trials are about what the
prosecution can prove. Ultimately, Justice Bill decided that the prosecution
simply didn't have enough proof. Not enough proof to say
whether Erin downloaded these articles, whether she read any of them,
whether she definitely poisoned Simon, and no evidence to suggest
(19:08):
what she actually dumped at the tip. So to avoid
inviting speculation, it is simply fairer if this evidence is
not heard by the jury.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Thanks Laura, And as we said before, we'll have an
episode tomorrow about Aaron's charges relating to Simon Patterson, so
stay tuned.
In a courtroom in Melbourne. Today, Justice Christopher Bill made
a ruling. It didn't take very long, but it was
very important in the case of Aaron Patterson because throughout
the trial there was information the jury never got to hear,
and for the first time we can tell you all
about it. I'm Brooke Greebert Craig and this is the
(00:21):
Mushroom Cook. Hi Laura, welcome back for another podcast episode.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Good to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So today we'll be touching on everything that the jury
didn't know.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
And I will just say from the top, I have
been waiting months to talk about this, so let's get
it underway. So it all goes back to the pre
trial hearings that US journalists are allowed to sit in on,
and these happened throughout late last year and early this year.
So all of the lawyers came together as well as
the witnesses. They were brought in one by one to
(00:54):
give evidence in these hearings so the lawyers could hear
what they had to say before the trial kicked off.
After they heard from all the witnesses, everyone came back
for some dense legal argument. And this legal argument was
really about the defense team trying to get evidence thrown
out of trial. But on the other hand, it was
(01:14):
the prosecution fighting really hard to make sure it stayed in.
So after all of this discussion was over, just as
Christopher Beale came back and he delivered his rulings, and
he was effectively deciding what would stay in and what
would stay out. Everything that stayed in was all of
the evidence that our listeners would have heard us speak
about over the course of the trial. But now we
(01:36):
can talk about what was kept secret from the jury.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
Okay, let's get into it. Let's go back to the lunch.
The jury heard that Aaron made one trip to the
tip to dump that dehydrator, but what they didn't know
is that she made a trip to the same tip
on the day of the lunch.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yes, and this was something that we learned at pre trial. So,
as you said, Brook, she dumped the dehydrat on August two.
But if we rewind back to the lunch on July
twenty nine, the guests left at around two forty five.
Ian said that he had to tend to some church duties,
so everyone jumped in the car and they left. What
we found out was that forty five minutes after they
(02:18):
had left Erin also departed her house and she went
to the Koonwarra Tip and what the prosecution said she
did was dump other items from the lunch. One of
the other Crown prosecutors, Sarah Lenthal, said there was an
element of secrecy about this trip because her son and
his friend were at home at the time and she
(02:39):
didn't tell them that she was leaving to go to
the tip, and Miss Leenthal said that was an unusual occurrence.
She would usually always tell her children when she was
leaving the home, even if it was only for a
short while.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
And I guess one would think if you're not telling
your child where you were going, then it's usually something
that you don't want them to know.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Potentially, and that's why miss Lenthal said there felt like
there was an element of secrecy around this trip, so
she fought really hard for the jury to hear this.
The prosecution wanted the jury to know that only forty
five minutes after hosting this lunch, she was at the
tip disposing of some items. Thought mister Mandy argued was
we actually didn't know what she dumped at all. The
(03:23):
business records from the tip stated that some cardboard was
left by Erin, but we have no idea what else
she left. So he told the court that what she
could have disposed of that day could have been completely innocent.
He said it was in the realm of speculation, and
I think the words he used were it was just
a visit to the tip. So for this reason, he
(03:44):
said that the jury shouldn't know about this trip. It
should stay secret because it was going to be too
unfair to his client.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So you're telling me Aaron went to the Tip of
forty five minutes after her guests left that deadly beef
Wellington lunch.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yes, and the jury had no idea. In fact, there
was actually a discussion in the middle of the trial
in the absence of the jury, where they were debating
how they should redact these business records from the Tip
to hide that trip from the jury.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Now, let's talk about the charges relating to Simon that
were dropped.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So this happened at the very beginning of the trial.
I think it was our second podcast episode where we
brought to our listeners the news that three attempted murder
charges that Aaron was facing had been dropped by prosecutors.
The jury were told on the first day that these
charges had been dropped and they should put them out
of their mind. They weren't going to form part of
(04:41):
the trial. To justice Bee really emphasized that they should
not be turning their minds to them.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
But the jury didn't hear any contexts as to what
the charges.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Were, none at all. They only heard that there were
three charges of attempted murder. And you and I were
sitting in court, and all of the other journalists as well,
we all knew that context, but we couldn't quite talk
about it yet.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
And we knew that context because that's something that we
all heard in pre trial.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
What we knew but the jury didn't know, was that
on three occasions, Simon said Erin tried to kill him
by feeding him poisoned food. He told the court during
pre trial that he had stopped eating Erin's food because
he believed she had tried to kill him on these
occasions while they were camping in the Victorian Bush.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think it's interesting to point out when they were camping,
they were actually separated, so they weren't together.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yes, that's right. So these camping trips took place in
November twenty twenty one May twenty twenty two and November
twenty twenty two, all before that fateful lunch in twenty
twenty three. Our listeners may remember that when he was
asked at trial why he didn't attend the lunch on
July twenty nine, he simply said he was too uncomfortable.
(05:56):
He gave no further answer to that question, and he
wasn't allowed to No, he wasn't. He had to essentially
keep his lip sealed because all of this information about
happened to him wasn't to be heard by the jury.
But I will say Brook, you were on top of
this before many other people were. You were recovering this
story in the days after the lunch, and you discovered
(06:17):
that Simon had battled a mystery gut illness in May
twenty two.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yes, that's correct. So if I take us back to
August twenty twenty three, when the story broke, I was
in leng Gatha looking into it a bit more, and
I came across a post that Simon made on Facebook
in a local community group where he spoke more about
this mystery gut illness that he was suffering from. And obviously,
at that time two years ago, we didn't have any
(06:44):
of the contexts that we have now, But we ran
that story and other media outlets followed, and in the
following days, I received a tip off that actually came
to my inbox, and I had a source that said
that they knew more about Simon's mystery gun illness, and
this person told me that Simon believed that Aaron had
(07:08):
tried to poison him on multiple occasions. I trusted this
source and we ended up running this story. So for
me personally, it was very interesting to find out more
of the contexts of Simon's illnesses, knowing that I had
written these past stories.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
And in terms of the timeline, Aaron was charged in
November twenty twenty three over the lunch, but then there
were these three attempted murder charges relating to Simon and
these camping trips. But what we then found out in
pre trial was there was actually a fourth meal she
fed him that he said made him sick.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
But we'll let our colleagues veteran crime reporter Anthony Dowsley
and court reporter ash Argoon, who our listeners heard from
in season one, talk about this more in detail in
another episode. Another interesting thing that came out at pre
trial is that Simon said that he had had multiple
media inquiries with publications asking him to tell his story.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yes, and he said that he may sell his story
for considerable financial reward were the terms he used. And
he said that could take the form of a major interview,
a book, or even a TV show.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So we'll have to wait and see really whether he
goes down that pathway.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Who will.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So we've heard that these were alleged poisonings. Why were
these charges dropped in the end.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
That's a really great question. During these pre trial proceedings
that we've been speaking about, Crown Prosecutor Undernette Rodgers fought
really hard for all of these charges, so both the
lunch charges and Simon charges to be heard together by
the same jury. But simply her argument was that when
all of these circumstances were heard together, they provided context
(08:50):
for one another and the jury could take a step
back after hearing all of this evidence and come to
the conclusion that all of this could not be a coincidents.
It could not be a coincidence that Simon on three
occasions and his relatives at the lunch all fell ill
from eating Eron's food and it be an accident each time.
(09:12):
So that was the argument that was made by the prosecution.
But the defense argued in reply that for all of
these things to be heard at the same time by
the same jury, it would be too unfair to erin,
it would be unfairly prejudicial. And they particularly argued this
because we actually didn't know that much about these illnesses
that Simon suffered when he went to hospital, particularly on
(09:35):
the first occasion. They didn't run every single test under
the sun. And like we just said, the prosecution didn't
even know what poison may have been used on these occasions.
So there was simply not enough evidence, which is why
Justice Biel decided that the Simon charges and the Lunch
charges be heard separately in front of two different juries.
(09:59):
Once that decision was made, the prosecution actually went up
to the Court of Appeal try and get it overturned,
arguing again that this should be heard by one single jury,
but they failed once more. It was at that point
that they decided they had no other choice but to
drop the charges relating to Simon.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Now, Laura, let's talk about the swirling speculation that was
taking place within the community twenty four hours after the
lunch occurred.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
So, as I mentioned, at the top of the episode.
More than a dozen witnesses gave evidence in these pre
trial hearings, and we heard a lot from them that
they may not have been able to touch upon at
trial where they had to keep their lips sealed. And
a lot of these suspicions were the things they weren't
allowed to touch on because they started to relate to
(10:47):
these alleged poisonings of Simon.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
It would have been really difficult for these witnesses to
not talk about these particular aspects of their evidence exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
So before they were giving evidence in the trial, they
were actually getting briefings from the prosecution, and you can
imagine in these briefings, the prosecution are reminding them, remember
you can't talk about X, Y Z. So when I
ask you a question about something, remember not to touch
on a certain element. So they were almost self censoring
in the moment, making sure they didn't put a toe
(11:20):
out of line.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Let's talk about what Simon told Ian and Heather.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
So Simon told the jury that the day after the
lunch he went around to Heather and Ian's home to
check in on them because his own parents, Don and
Gale had fallen very ill after the lunch. When he arrived,
he described that Ian looked gray and looked very sick.
What the jury didn't know was at that time, Simon
was honest with his aunt and uncle and he told
(11:47):
them what he believed had happened to him. He divulged
how sick he had become in the past from eating
Aaron's food and said to them that he was worried
the same thing had happened to them. He really urged
them to get to hospital as soon as possible. Ian
did tell the jury at trial that when Simon came over,
(12:08):
he explained to his nephew that he thought it was
just gastro and they were going to wait for it
to pass. But he didn't touch on this conversation he
had with Simon about his suspicions. But at pre trial
he explained that even after hearing this from Simon, him
and Heather still resisted going to hospital, and it was
only after Simon called a doctor or nurse on call
(12:31):
over the phone that they relented and decided that they
should go to hospital. Now let's talk about doctor Chris Webster.
He was one of the doctors who treated Ian and
Heather when they were in hospital. And he also spoke
to Aaron as well. Yes, that's right. And to remind
our listeners, doctor Webster was the person who made that
triple zero call to police when Aaron left the hospital
(12:54):
for the first time after only being there for five minutes.
So to take a step back, doctor Webster told the
court at pre trial that he had started his shift
on July thirty, the day after the lunch, and he
received a call from an old colleague of his, doctor
Chris Ford. So we've got two doctor Chris's here. Doctor
(13:14):
Webster works at len Gatha Hospital and doctor Ford is
a GP and doctor Ford was Simon's GP. He was
treating Simon for a number of months and it was
over that period that Simon was telling him about his
suspicions around Erin and the food she was feeding him.
(13:34):
What doctor Webster recounted was doctor Ford ringing him up
to alert him to the fact that he believed all
of the lunch guests had been deliberately poisoned. He told
doctor Webster to keep a really close eye on the
guests that he was treating because it was not a
case of common food poisoning, but he suspected it was
(13:54):
something much more sinister. He said that at the time
he remembered thinking to himself, this is very bizarre. He
had just started work and all of a sudden he
was in the middle of what was shaping up to
potentially be murder. He then went on to reveal what
he said to a colleague that day. Doctor Webster was
being asked about this at pre trial by Aaron's defense barrister.
(14:16):
This is what he said to him at pre trial.
He said to mister Mandy.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
It was a private comment to the nurse, and it
was a facetious comment. So it's embarrassing to say, but
you want me to tell you.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
At this point, mister Mandy beckoned him to keep going.
This is what doctor Webster said.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
He told his colleague, I said, it looks like someone's
trying to take out the church community.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
So some might say that that was just a throwaway comment,
or others might think that Dr Webster had suspicions quite
early on.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Exactly, And he said in court he was a little
bit embarrassed that he made this joke, but the comment
really does give you an insight into his mentality at
the time and what he thought might have been going on.
He then explained what happened the next day, on July
thirty one, when Aaron herself arrived at Lengatha Hospital, tensions
were clearly high. So when Aaron walked into the hospital
(15:06):
and told doctor Webster her name, he said he knew
exactly who she was. He said he realized this was
the chef of the lunch who had potentially just tried
to kill all of her guests.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
As we know, Aaron left the hospital after being there
for five minutes.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
At trial, doctor Webster said that when Aaron arrived at hospital,
he told her that she had potentially been exposed to
lethal deathcat mushrooms, but in the back of his mind
you can imagine he was thinking she was not a
victim but a killer.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Okay, finally, let's talk about files that were found on
Aaron's devices.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Investigators search through Erin's devices using some keywords to help
them navigate through everything, and remembering one of these keywords
was poison. So one thing that investigators stumbled upon was
a chapter of a book that was located on a
tablet that was seized from Aaron's house. The book was
called Criminal Poisoning and the title of this chapter was
(16:06):
some common homicidal poisons. As you can imagine, this really
peaked their interest. This chapter detailed the color, the odor, taste,
lethal dose of a handful of poisons, where talking anti
freeze arsnick even cyanide. What it didn't touch on, though,
(16:29):
was toxic mushrooms. Beyond this fact, mister Mandy argued that
there was no evidence that his client downloaded this file,
whether she read the file, or if she did read it,
how much of it she may have read. But he
also said that any interest his client may have had
in poisons could have related to the fact that she
(16:50):
was involved in a true crime group, that being the
Kali Lane group, and he said that when she was
discussing true crime with her friends where poisons were maybe
part of the plot, she may have had to do
some research. We heard that she was a very good researcher,
and he said that she was quite widely read. But
in response to that, Justice Beale remarked that a lot
(17:11):
of people who are widely read aren't looking up poisons.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
But Klly Lane didn't poison anyone, did she.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yes, Kelly Lane is no poisoner. She was found guilty
over the death of her baby who disappeared but we've
come to know now that in this Kelly Lane group,
all of the people involved were talking about a lot
of true crime, not just the Kellilaine case. And mister
Mandy said that Erin might have been looking up poisons
as part of the plots of the crimes they were discussing,
(17:40):
remarking that she was widely read. But Justice Biel said
to him that a lot of people who are widely
read are not looking up poisons. Nonetheless, evidence of this
file was never put before the jury.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
And where any other files found.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
There was one more of note, and this was from
a Victorian naturalist journal, so a journal focusing on a
lot of the natural world. And one article that got
police's attention was called an overview of the Fungi of Melbourne.
And this article was written by one and the same
Dr Tom May, who ended up being a prosecution witness
(18:19):
in the case. So clearly Erin may have already been
familiar with some of his work. In this article, there's
a photo of death caps and some description of them.
But mister Mandy brought Justice Bill back to the fact
that the prosecution couldn't say whether she read this article
at all, So it was also kept secret from the jury.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Now, that's a lot of information that we have spoken about,
and I'm sure people would be thinking, why didn't the
jury hear this exactly?
Speaker 2 (18:47):
But to put it simply, trials are about what the
prosecution can prove. Ultimately, Justice Bill decided that the prosecution
simply didn't have enough proof. Not enough proof to say
whether Erin downloaded these articles, whether she read any of them,
whether she definitely poisoned Simon, and no evidence to suggest
(19:08):
what she actually dumped at the tip. So to avoid
inviting speculation, it is simply fairer if this evidence is
not heard by the jury.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Thanks Laura, And as we said before, we'll have an
episode tomorrow about Aaron's charges relating to Simon Patterson, so
stay tuned.
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