August 6, 2025 • 31 mins
“There were kind of always like two simultaneous stories happening with my coming out. One was the realization and breaking through some of that denial and repression, seeing kind of what was right there in front of me, and I gave that story to Imogen.” – Becky Albertalli
What if there were two stories running through your life: the one you’re telling the world, and the one you haven’t even admitted to yourself? That’s the kind of truth Becky Albertalli explores in her writing, and that she’s lived in her own life.
Becky is the bestselling author of Simon vs. the Homo Sapiens Agenda, Leah on the Offbeat, Imogen, Obviously, and many more. Her books capture the awkward, earnest, messy work of figuring out who you are–and remind us that coming out, growing up, and becoming yourself rarely happen all at once.
In this episode, Becky opens up about growing up and fitting (or not fitting) in a conservative suburb, finding refuge in theater, and The Babysitters Club. She also reflects on how writing helped her work through parts of herself she hadn’t yet named, discusses why queer-coming-of-age stories still matter, and reminds us of the power of Rent.
***
For her reading challenge, Queer Coming of Age Stories, Becky has curated a list packed with queer stories, identity shifts, big feelings, and characters trying to make sense of themselves, one awkward moment at a time.
Peruse selected titles and Becky’s complete reading challenge for free at thereadingculturepod.com/becky-albertalli.
This week's Beanstack Featured Librarian is Kelly Shelton, an elementary librarian for Garland ISD in Garland, Texas. She’s been an educator for 26 years, and in the library for nearly a decade. She shares how unlocking a love of reading can start with dinosaurs, Dog Man, or a well-timed Taylor Swift Break.
Show Chapters
Chapter 1: Georgia Peach
Chapter 2: I Hate School, But I’m Very Good At It
Chapter 3: Proud Member of the Babysitter’s Club
Chapter 4: The Year of Secret Assignments
Chapter 5: Hindsight 20/20
Chapter 6: Best Friends Forever
Chapter 7: Reading Challenge
Chapter 8: Beanstack Featured Librarian
Links
- The Reading Culture
- The Reading Culture Newsletter Signup
- Follow The Reading Culture on Instagram (for giveaways and bonus content)
- Becky Albertalli
- Becky Albertalli Instagram
- Love, Simon film
- The Babysitters Club Scholastic
- The Babysitters Club Netflix series
- Rent musical
- The Year of Secret Assignments
- Wesleyan University
- Beanstack resources to build your community’s reading culture
- Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Host and Production Credits
Host: Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Producers: Mel Webb and Lower Street Media
Script Editors: Josia Lamberto-Egan, Mel Webb, Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Becky Albertalli (00:04):
There were kind of always two simultaneous
stories happening with my comingout. One was the realization and
breaking through some of thatdenial and repression and seeing
what was right there in front ofme. And I gave that story to
Imogen.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:24):
What if there are two stories running
through your life? The oneyou're telling the world and
then the one you haven'tadmitted to yourself. Coming
out, growing up, discovering whowe are, it's rarely a single
moment. Instead, it's a slowprocess of breaking through
denial, shedding expectations,and seeing clearly what's been
(00:45):
there all along. And today'sguest knows that experience
intimately.
For years, Becky Albertalliwrote love stories and
narratives about self discoveryand identity that reflected
truths she hadn't yet named inher own life. Becky is a New
York Times best selling authorof Simon versus the Homo Sapiens
(01:06):
Agenda, Leah on the Offbeat,Imogen Obviously, and many more.
In this episode, Becky shareshow her childhood growing up in
a conservative Georgia suburbshaped her sense of self, how
she found belonging in thetheater, and her charmed
publishing experience with herdebut novel. We also talk about
the babysitter's club as queercanon, her pretentious reader
(01:28):
years, and how rent truly gaveus so much. Our show is made
possible by Beanstack, theleading solution for motivating
people to read more.
Learn more at beanstack.com, andmake sure to check us out on
Instagram at the reading culturepod, where you can also find
more details about our bigsummer reading giveaway, which
ends on August 8. And subscribeto our newsletter for bonus
(01:52):
content at thereadingculturepod.com/newsletter.
Alright. On to the show. Hey,listeners.
Are you looking for a fun, easyway to track your reading and
earn cool rewards? Well, meetBeanstack, the ultimate reading
app used by a community of over15,000 schools, libraries, and
(02:16):
organizations nationwide. Areyou an avid reader? Check with
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Ask your child's teacher if theschool library already uses
Beanstack. And if you are aneducator searching for a fresh
alternative to acceleratedreader, Beanstack is the perfect
(02:37):
tool to cultivate a thrivingreading culture. Ready to turn
the page? Visit beanstack.com tolearn more. Okay.
Before we get into the the heavyhitting questions or get
started, I wanted to know ifyou've always gone by Becky. Are
you Rebecca in some circles?Been Becky since a young age?
Becky Albertalli (02:56):
I'm only Rebecca if I'm in trouble. I
have always been Becky.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (02:59):
You seem very into nicknames. Mhmm. In
your book, nicknames play animportant role.
Becky Albertalli (03:03):
I don't know that I necessarily put a lot of
thought into my own nickname.It's just, like, kind of always
what I was called.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:10):
Okay. Back to Georgia. Tell me about your
your early early childhood.
Becky Albertalli (03:13):
I grew up in the Northern Suburbs of Atlanta.
Anybody who's read my bookswould recognize the suburb where
I grew up is where, like, Simonand Leah live. They renamed it
in the books. They call it ShadyCreek, but it is, like, a very,
very thinly veiled sandysprings. And I feel like the
(03:36):
helpful point of reference isthat at the time when I was
growing up there, you know, theeighties and then the nineties,
that was around the time when mydistrict sent Newt Gingrich to
congress.
My family was not a part ofthat. I think the only time my
mom put a political sign in ouryard was for the guy running
(03:56):
against him. But he still wonjust to give a sense of what it
was like there. So it's aconservative leaning, affluent
suburb close to Atlanta that itwasn't that rural picture that
people sometimes will paint intheir heads when you talk about
Georgia. It is a lot more purplenow than it used to be.
(04:17):
I mean, it has been really niceto watch that evolution. You
know, it's easy to feel reallyhopeless these days. And one of
the, things I keep coming backto when I'm trying to stave off
that despair is just bigpicture. When I look at my
hometown, that progress isundeniable to me.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (04:37):
You said Newt Gingrich. I know you're
Jewish. What was it like growingup in that environment? Were
you, like, one of few, one ofmany?
Becky Albertalli (04:45):
You know, I went to this smallish, maybe
medium sized public high schoolthat had an international
studies magnet program, and itattracted students from outside
our geographic district as wellas, like, the people who were
zoned for it. So it was a reallycool diverse group of kids.
(05:06):
Like, you would walk through thehallways, and there were a lot
of languages spoken, and thatwas just something that, you
know, was part of the culture ofmy high school.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:17):
Yeah.
Becky Albertalli (05:18):
It was, I would say, fairly progressive in
some ways for a high school inthe late nineties, early two
thousands, especially inGeorgia.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:28):
Okay. So your high school had this, like
what you're describing is this,like, dynamic diverse energy,
basically, especially for thattime and place that we both grew
up in. But I'm curious what youwere like in that setting, I
guess, growing up and how youdescribe yourself back then or,
I guess, how you think otherpeople might have described you.
Becky Albertalli (05:46):
I'm shy and the kind of kid who got told
frequently on my report cardsthat I was very conscientious
and a pleasure to have in class.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:54):
I have to tell you, they
have so many parallels. When I was in
fifth grade, I won the mostconscientious award.
So I just find that very funny. And my
parents were so proud. I'm like,what does conscientious mean?
I wanna be the best at sports or something
cool, like, pretty is.
I know. Sorry. Go ahead. You were a
little shy and conscientious.
Becky Albertalli (06:12):
It's so funny. You got, like, flagged as
conscientious back then. Youdefinitely have a job related to
bookstore. But I found, like,this journal that I wrote, I
think it was, like, secondgrade. My favorite quote from my
journal, which I think reallycaptures who I was at the time,
was, you must know I hateschool, but I'm very good in it.
(06:34):
So
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (06:37):
You already had your voice, your writer
voice.
Becky Albertalli (06:39):
Yeah. I think, you know, in retrospect, I was,
like, wildly ADHD andovercompensating all the time.
So I think that might be why Ihated school but was good in it.
Mhmm. Yeah.
I didn't get in trouble. I didkinda discover theater in middle
school and started doing theplays. And I was, like, in the
background and stuff, and thenit was, like, coming out of my
(07:00):
shell and theater saved me. AndI felt, you know, for all of
middle school and high schoolthat theater was my
recalibration. Like, that washow I started to define myself.
So I was a big time theater kid,but it was not, like, typically
the lead role or anything. Iwas, you know, I think
ultimately too awkward for that.I did get a lead role once
(07:23):
senior year because the maincharacter was very awkward. I
played just this very, like,earnest twelve year old girl.
You know, it was maybe a naturalfit for me at age 18.
And I was definitely, you know,happiest during high school when
I was, like, staying afterschool, working on the sets. And
(07:43):
I loved, like, rehearsing. Iloved, like, being a part of the
ensemble. Oh my gosh. My journalentries about that, like, coming
down period are so emo.
It is Really? Ridicule like, oh,they, like, they really read,
like I I can't even remember thewording, but it's like if you
were to take a theater kid, youknow, and, like, turn it into a
(08:07):
journal entry. The drama. Oh, itwas yeah. Like, those were hard
times for me.
Like, the day after we took theset down.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:18):
In the theater, being part of the
ensemble gave Becky a sense ofpurpose and a place to land. But
outside of that space, it washarder. Becky has said in other
interviews that she grew up fat.And like Leah, the main
character in her book, Leah onthe offbeat, she didn't always
feel at ease in her own body.Growing up in a body that was
constantly being judged,especially in the nineties,
(08:40):
shaped not just how others sawBecky, but how much or how
little of her own desires thatBecky was willing to share.
Becky Albertalli (08:48):
In many ways, being a fat kid was certainly
one of, if not, like, thedefining experience for me in
terms of what was really rightthere on the surface. And I
still see the way that itimpacted, you know, just I don't
know. The ripple effect waspretty intense, I think. I was
(09:08):
definitely bullied. It was thenineties.
You know, I remember fifth gradein particular. It's actually
fifth grade is the worst for me.I was at this lunch table where
the thing that we did that daywas, like, just I sat there at
my assigned seat and got, like,intensely bullied to my face.
And it didn't occur to me. Ididn't feel like I could tell
anybody.
(09:29):
It just literally didn't evenoccur to me that I could say
anything.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:32):
You felt like I had to just take it?
Becky Albertalli (09:34):
Yeah. Because it was my assigned seat. You
know? Mhmm. So it's not like Itook that very seriously.
You know, one of the things Ikeep coming back to is that I,
for many reasons, didn't evenhave the ability to see that or
process it. I didn't have thelanguage for it, and a lot of
(09:55):
that was my environment, thecultural context of, like,
living in Georgia, you know, inthe nineties. There was this
part of me that felt like, youknow, I was fundamentally
unattractive. Me liking somebodywould be a burden on them. The
idea of opening that door to theidea that I could have a broader
pool of people who I could berejected by, because that is
(10:18):
what it meant to me.
To like someone was to openyourself up to inevitable
rejection. And so it's like, Ican't imagine a world where I
would have explored that. Ididn't even explore it in my own
head. And a lot of that,particularly, at the time was
tied to body stuff. That was alot of what I was bullied for.
(10:40):
So, yeah, not a fun time to be afat Ken and a very confusing
time to be a little bisexualKen. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:49):
Coupled with the fact that at the time,
there was not, like, mainstreamlanguage that there is today
around these different ways tobe queer. And I'm like, my kids,
they had this full lexicon totalk about sexuality with this
amazing degree of, like,specificity. You know? But in my
high school, I don't know. Was,like, gay, straight.
That was it. Pretty much. I feltlike it was pretty black and
white. You know? And I just Iknow that was probably a
(11:09):
limitation for you at that agetoo.
Yeah.
Becky Albertalli (11:12):
Well, I remember I knew the word
bisexual by the time I was inhigh school, and I'm thinking
probably that came directly fromrent, like, specifically from
rent.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:21):
Rent gave us so much.
Becky Albertalli (11:23):
Rent gave us so much. But, you know, I had a
very narrow view of what thatcould mean. Like, it would be
preposterous for me to bebisexual like Maureen from Rent
who attracts boys and girls, andI was attracting none of the
above. I
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:47):
did wanna ask about the media that you
were consuming growing up andhow that might have impacted
your perceptions of queernessand and so forth as you were,
you know, in high school, middleschool?
Becky Albertalli (11:59):
Yeah. Okay. So one of my biggest influences,
you know, as a writer, as aperson, just to my core is The
Babysitter's Club. I read everysingle one. I actually read The
Babysitter's Little Sister, likethe ones about Karen.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:13):
Oh, that's the next level. Okay.
Becky Albertalli (12:14):
I've been with The Babysitter's Club since I
was seven or something. And Ithink that is fundamentally a
very queer series. Those bookswere published during a
particular cultural moment, butI think they have aged
remarkably well. And I think,you know, there is a kind of
(12:34):
queerness about them that Ithink a lot of, like, queer kids
or kids who would you know,adults who would eventually come
to realize that they were queersaw something in that series
that felt safe.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:47):
Do you wanna say a little bit more
about that? It feels like you'rethinking beyond the
relationships among the girlsand so forth too.
Becky Albertalli (12:54):
There's a lot. I think, like I mean, Christy
Thomas, the president, isdefinitely one who I think,
like, a lot of sapphic womenfeel connected to. And then I
think, you know, some of it isjust the emphasis on the
relationships among these girlsand their friendships and the
intimacy of that series. It'sbeen interesting to kind of
(13:15):
follow that franchise as well. Iwatch every adaptation,
actually.
The one that came out in thenineties, I watched that again
recently on a plane. I don'tknow about, like, Stacy and her
love interest. There was alittle bit of an age gap that
I'm not sure, like, would flytoday with that particular
adaptation. I still love thatmovie, though. Yeah.
The Netflix one was such a coolupdate Yes. On the original
(13:38):
series. It was so much in thespirit of the books. I believe
Anna Martin was very involved.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (13:43):
Mhmm.
Becky Albertalli (13:43):
There was a trans kid among the babysitting
kids in Stony Brook. I don'twanna give any spoilers, but we
do have one of the babysitterscome out as queer. And, I don't
know. It's a safe space of aseries.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:01):
Like theater, the Babysitter's Club
was Becky's safe space, a seriesshe adored then and proudly
revisits now. But like a lot ofbookish kids, she eventually hit
that inevitable phase, the onewhere loving something like the
babysitter's club suddenly feltuncool.
Becky Albertalli (14:18):
I went through a phase in high school where I
was, like, a pretentious littlereader. You know? I I remember
walking into books and I'vealways loved You. But at one
point, I felt like it wasembarrassing to love You. Oh.
I got over that. And I got overit fairly quickly. But I think
(14:41):
during the time when I was aYou, I was like I was reading a
lot of, like, very thickliterary kind of books. Mhmm.
Some of which I still love.
Like, I remember in high school,I really loved a prayer for Owen
Meaney.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:52):
Oh my god. I I love that book. I should
reread that book.
Becky Albertalli (14:54):
I love that book. Oh, I brought this, like,
weathered old I met John Irvingat a festival once, and I was
like, I'm a fan. And I thinkhe's probably, you know, maybe
he thought it was being nice,and then I, like, pull out this
copy of own meaning that's beenread, like, a thousand times.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (15:15):
College is where a lot of people have their
great awakening. And on a campuslike Wesleyan's, queer,
creative, full of chalked upsidewalks, and found family
energy, you'd think that's whereBecky would have come out. Side
note, turns out Becky and I havean uncanny amount in common.
I'll share more about that inthe newsletter, but let's just
say that we even won the samesuperlative in fifth grade. I
(15:38):
digress.
And as a Wesleyan grad myself, Ican vouch for the very open vibe
on campus. Spoken word poetrywas everywhere, and we even had
alternatives to dorms on campuslike womanist house or eclectic
house. I mean, it was aprogressive, quirky, accepting
place to come into adulthood.That is for sure.
Becky Albertalli (15:59):
One thing about Wesleyan that I think is
really interesting in retrospectkind of puzzle pieces coming
together
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (16:05):
Mhmm.
Becky Albertalli (16:06):
Is I remember visiting the campus as a senior.
I had found out maybe the daybefore my visit that I got in. I
was there with my dad. And sofirst, my dad did not love
Wesleyan. He had some strongopinions about the dorm rooms,
which he just felt were notaesthetically pleasing, I guess.
Like, they looked to him, theylooked like motel. I don't know
(16:28):
what he was expecting. Like,they're
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (16:29):
like paying what? For what?
Becky Albertalli (16:30):
They look like doors. I don't know if he was
used to kinda the big southernschools or something, like, had
a different kind of aesthetic.So while he was doing his one
man comedy show, Riffing on theDorms, I was falling in love
with this school trying toexplain why I loved the chalking
on the sidewalk. People wouldchalk pictures and messages and
(16:53):
write social justice things and,like, it's a lot of, like, gay
stuff. Yeah.
There are, like, all these,like, gay flyers everywhere. And
I was like, this place appealsto me as an ally. You know, it's
an ally to the, the gaycommunity. To my dad's credit
too, as soon as he found out, Iactually seriously loved the
school. He gave another shot.
(17:14):
We went back. And he was fullyopen to it and has been gently,
affectionately mocking me aboutit for, you know, like, thirty
something years. It
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:26):
makes sense that you went there and felt
like, okay. I wanna be in thisenvironment. I think Wesleyan
was like you might not havefound a more, like, open people
who are just, like, discoveringthemselves, welcoming
environment for all. And I thinkthere's no, like, mistaking it
when you go on campus, even inthe late nineties. You know?
(17:47):
I think it's like there was nomistaking that that you knew
that upon walking into thecampus. So I guess you felt that
connection. Like, you must havefelt like, okay. I wanna be
here.
Becky Albertalli (17:56):
Yeah. I didn't understand it at all. Like, you
would think I would say, like,it takes a special someone maybe
to, like, go through four yearskind of immersed in Wesleyan
and, like, actively loving thequeerness of Wesleyan without
understanding why. You know, Ialso wrote Simon versus the Homo
Sapiens Agenda and still didn'tget it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (18:17):
So you're a special kind of person?
Becky Albertalli (18:18):
I am a special case. Yes. Dear Emily, check it
out. I just saved the lives ofthe whole school. I'm on the
oval right now, and I can hardlysee this paper through my tears
of life giving joy.
Okay. Check it out. I'll tellyou what happened. I was in the
(18:40):
admin block outside theprincipal's office. I won't go
into the reasons why I was therebecause it would destroy the
flow of the story.
The fact is I was there and onmy own because the secretary
just went out for a moment andthe telephone rang. So I answer
the phone, hello? And this voicegoes, hello? And I go, hello?
And this voice goes, what?
So I go, Brookfield High School,how may I direct your call,
(19:02):
please? As per what I hear thesecretary say every time I'm
waiting there. Then this voicegoes, yes. Hello. I'm with local
gas authority, and I'm callingfrom the basement of your school
here.
I'm just checking the main gasline, and there is a serious
leak here. Really, so seriousthat at any moment there could
be an explosion. I, myself, amabout to run to my car and get
the hell away, but I thought Ishould let you know so you can
(19:24):
sound the fire alarm and geteverybody out of the school and
onto the oval. Check out howcool I was under pressure. I
just said, thank you very muchand please get yourself out of
there and save your own life.
Then I hung up, switched on thePA system and said, there is a
gas leak in the basement of theschool. There is no need to
panic. It is just a gas leak,which may lead to an explosion
(19:45):
at any moment. Please all go tothe oval as per the fire drills.
Then I found the fire alarm andpressed the button.
So then, of course, the doorsall around me open and the
principal practically kills meto switch off the PA, and
somehow I landed on the officefloor, but I kept my dignity. So
that explains why I am on theOval right now and not doing my
(20:05):
origins of the first World Warexamination and also why I have
now got a new faith in humanityon account of being its savior.
When you think about it, theyoung people are the future, so
I have saved the future.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:18):
Becky just read from the year of secret
assignments by JacquelineMoriarty. A dark, funny,
heartfelt novel told throughletters, emails, and other mixed
media storytelling. It followsthree best friends whose school
pen pal project spirals intounexpected friendships, romance,
and a dangerous game of revenge.The excerpt was a letter written
(20:39):
by Charlie to his pen pal Emily.Becky first read the book when
she was at Wesleyan, emergingfrom what she calls her quote
pretentious reader phase.
For the first time, she feltproud to be reading You,
intimate and irreverent all atonce. Moriarty's prose showed
her that you were allowed towrite like that.
Becky Albertalli (20:59):
One of the things that was such a
revelation to me was the,specificity of the voice, that
quality that people sometimeswithin publishing will talk
about, like voiciness. You know?That feeling that you kind of
are hearing this character,like, speak to you directly. I
just, like, really picked it offthe shelf and gave it a shot out
(21:23):
of nowhere as I was bravelywalking toward the You section,
like, willing to be seen there.You know?
I was, like, just old enoughthat I understood that, like,
you could actually, like, readthese books. You know? Reading
her books, and this was thefirst of hers that I had read
and I have since read. I have,like, a massive shelf just,
(21:45):
like, full of her books. Like, Iremain a super fan for life.
You know? But, yeah. This was myfirst encounter with her. And it
was like, I didn't know you wereallowed to write like that, I
guess. One of the things I wasfighting against at that time of
my life, like, in my collegeyears, my twenties, was this
idea I had that, like, well, youcan't actually be an author.
(22:07):
You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:08):
So it's not that you didn't want to be an
author. It's that you felt likethat's not real.
Becky Albertalli (22:11):
It didn't seem like a real job. So I fell in
love with Jacqueline Moriarty asa reader, but, you know, that
was really something that I heldwith me because I think for a
long time, I had this idea thatto be a writer, you have to
write in a particular way. Andmaybe that was, like, coming off
of my, like, literary phase inhigh school. I
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:33):
don't know. Right. You're reading Owen
Meaney. Like, I don't know ifI'm gonna do this.
Becky Albertalli (22:36):
Yeah. I don't know. It just, like, unlocks
something for me just howconversational and intimate her
writing always feels for me.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:46):
Moriarty's influence emerged with the
publication of Becky's debutnovel, Simon versus the Homo
Sapiens Agenda. Becky wrote itafter a decade of working as a
psychologist specializing inLGBTQ plus teens, and she placed
a gay high schoolers coming outstruggles front and center. As
it turned out, she chose hermain character for reasons even
(23:07):
she didn't entirely realize.
Becky Albertalli (23:09):
Yeah. It's interesting because my answer
now is very different than itwas at the time. You know, at
the time, a lot of it was a bigmystery to me. I don't know. I
had this entire chain of eventsthat I felt like brought me
there.
At the time, it was like, youknow, this book started with
Simon, and he was just thischaracter who felt really
(23:32):
important to me. And Simonhimself, like his personality, I
mean, he is a lot like me. His,like, kind of internal monologue
is a lot like mine. I gave himmy birthday. I put him at my
high school.
It's a very thinly veiledversion of my high school.
There's always been enough of mein that book obscured the other
parts of me that were in thatbook. You know? Yeah. In
(23:55):
retrospect, it's really easy tosee.
But it's like, can hardly standto read that book because it's
so embarrassing to read how loudI was and how many very obvious
signs that I missed. It's like,Simon is in there in his own
brain saying things like,sometimes it feels like
everybody knows who I am exceptme. I don't think straight
people really think about comingout. As I was drafting Simon, I
(24:19):
wrote the part where Simon youknow, he's like, this is
supposed to be my thing. I'msupposed to decide.
And, like, I wrote that andburst into I was, like, having a
writer's moment. You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:29):
Yeah. But in retrospect, of course, you're
looking back and sort of reallyseeing everything for what it
was. Mhmm.
In 2020, after decades of skirting around
her sexuality, that thing shehad suppressed, yet had always
been staring her in the face,Becky came out to the public via
an essay on Medium.
Becky Albertalli (24:49):
It did feel like something I had to do, but
I, you know, I came out to myparents, close friends and
family and inner circle, and I,was was and am unbelievably
lucky in a lot of ways. I didn'thave to risk what some people
have to risk. You know? And itwas still unbelievably hard. The
(25:10):
public aspect of it is reallycomplicated.
And I think more than anythingelse I mean, time has helped in
therapy. But being able to kindof write my way into it and
understand that experience andthere were kind of always two
simultaneous stories happeningwith my coming out. One was the
(25:33):
realization and breaking throughsome of that denial and
repression and seeing kind ofwhat was right there in front of
me. And I gave that story toImogen. And I think kind of the
other piece to it is that publicaspect, the discourse, the
parasocial soup that I wasswimming in for that whole
(25:57):
experience.
I guess I I could say I workedthrough that experience in the,
Amelia book. I would say,actually, I gave that experience
to Walter, who is a character inthat book. Yeah. So those two
stories really they really arecompanions to each other. They
are set in the same universe,but they also are maybe the two
sides of the coin when it comesto my own, like, coming out
(26:19):
experience.
And it was unbelievably helpfulto write those books. Writing
has always been the way that Ipuzzle through things and work
through things and process them.So grateful for all of my books
and everything that's come withthem, but, those two in
particular, you know, havereally helped me understand and
(26:41):
work through that traumaticexperience.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:44):
Yeah. You have, like, this cast of
characters, and it feels likethey're each sort of, like,
holding a little piece ofsomething. You know?
Becky Albertalli (26:50):
Yeah. They are.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:52):
I I highlighted this quote from
Imogen, if only, and it reads, Iwas a human sailboat blown in
every direction by a storm ofdecades old media discourse. Am
I allowed to love this? Andreally, I think it speaks to
this idea of permission. Like,I'm I'm allowed to love who I
love or be who I am. And in yourbooks, like, friendship just
(27:13):
always plays such an importantrole.
We talked a little about thebabysitter's club and friendship
there. And I don't know. Couldyou talk about the role of close
friendships in helping you oryour characters find your way?
Becky Albertalli (27:24):
Yeah. I mean, that's kind of one of those
things that I've always I feellike it's almost like sheer luck
that I have had through everystage of my life, really true
friends and close friends of,you know, various genders too,
not all women. But I have had alot of close friendships with
girls when I was younger withwomen in my adulthood. Also,
(27:46):
like, with my sister, you know,who I have forgiven for reading
my diary. When I was a teenager,when I was the age that I'm
writing, I was getting noaction.
I did not have the romance sideof the story, but I did have the
safety of a real friend groupand close friendships that made
(28:09):
space for growth and change.That's something that's carried
into adulthood with some of thesame people, some different
people. I'm really grateful forthat.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:23):
Becky's reading challenge will come as
no surprise. It's titled queercoming of age stories. The list
is packed with identity shifts,big feelings, and characters
trying to make sense ofthemselves one awkward moment at
a time.
Becky Albertalli (28:38):
Okay. So I put coming of age stories, many of
which are kind of about, like,unpacking queer identity, but
broader than that, I didn'tstick too closely necessarily to
the theme. I've got, like, anice long list, and I am big
fans of all of these. And, also,this was painful to, like, get
down the Lesbianist Guide toCatholic School by Sonora Reyes.
(29:01):
Darius the Great is Not Okay byAdeeb Koram.
Nothing Burns as Bright as You,Ashley Woodfolk. This Day
Changes Everything, EdwardUnderhill. Dear Wendy, Anne
Zhao, man o war, Corey McCarthy.I have to plug a very new
release, nobody in particular bySophie Gonzales. Also, like, all
(29:26):
of these guys have, like,backlists and stuff too.
It's like, oh, I've got so manymore.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (29:31):
You can find Becky's reading challenge
and all past reading challengesat the readingculturepod.com.
And this week's Beanstackfeatured librarian is Kelly
Shelton, an elementary librarianfor Garland ISD in Garland,
Texas. She's been an educatorfor twenty six years and in the
(29:54):
library for nearly a decade.Kelly shares how unlocking a
love of reading can start withdinosaurs, dog man, or a well
timed Taylor Swift break.
KellyShelton (30:05):
My heart for readers is just find them where
they are. Like, what do theylove? Let them read. Doesn't
matter about reading level.Doesn't matter if they don't
quite get it.
You can help them, but just letthem read what they want. And so
as a librarian, I love that Iget to be like, here's your
dinosaurs. Here's your cat kid.This year, I had a second
grader, and he really had a hardtime. He just could not be
(30:27):
still.
And I was like, what is in yourhead? What are you doing? And he
was like, I'm singing this song.And I was like, what song? He
loved Taylor Swift.
He was a Swifty. But I got everybook we possibly could find
about Taylor Swift for this kid.And so we read epic. We read
every article we could find. Andso if he could sit for me and do
what I needed him to do in thelibrary, when the class was
(30:49):
over, he would get a TaylorSwift brace.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:55):
This has been the reading culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Becky
Albertalli. Again, I'm yourhost, Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and
currently, I'm reading the threelives of Kate k by Kate Fagan
and Red Queen by VictoriaAveyard. If you enjoyed today's
episode, please take one minuteto give us five stars on Apple
or Spotify or wherever youlisten. Your reviews really help
(31:17):
the show get recommended toother people, so everyone
counts, and thank you very much.This episode was produced by Mel
Webb and Lower Street Media andscript edited by Josiah Lamberto
Egan.
To learn more about how you canhelp grow your community's
reading culture, you can checkout all of our resources at
beanstack.com, and remember tosign up for our newsletter at
(31:38):
the readingculturepod.comforward slash newsletter for
special offers and bonuscontent. Thanks for listening,
and keep reading.
There were kind of always two simultaneous
stories happening with my comingout. One was the realization and
breaking through some of thatdenial and repression and seeing
what was right there in front ofme. And I gave that story to
Imogen.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:24):
What if there are two stories running
through your life? The oneyou're telling the world and
then the one you haven'tadmitted to yourself. Coming
out, growing up, discovering whowe are, it's rarely a single
moment. Instead, it's a slowprocess of breaking through
denial, shedding expectations,and seeing clearly what's been
(00:45):
there all along. And today'sguest knows that experience
intimately.
For years, Becky Albertalliwrote love stories and
narratives about self discoveryand identity that reflected
truths she hadn't yet named inher own life. Becky is a New
York Times best selling authorof Simon versus the Homo Sapiens
(01:06):
Agenda, Leah on the Offbeat,Imogen Obviously, and many more.
In this episode, Becky shareshow her childhood growing up in
a conservative Georgia suburbshaped her sense of self, how
she found belonging in thetheater, and her charmed
publishing experience with herdebut novel. We also talk about
the babysitter's club as queercanon, her pretentious reader
(01:28):
years, and how rent truly gaveus so much. Our show is made
possible by Beanstack, theleading solution for motivating
people to read more.
Learn more at beanstack.com, andmake sure to check us out on
Instagram at the reading culturepod, where you can also find
more details about our bigsummer reading giveaway, which
ends on August 8. And subscribeto our newsletter for bonus
(01:52):
content at thereadingculturepod.com/newsletter.
Alright. On to the show. Hey,listeners.
Are you looking for a fun, easyway to track your reading and
earn cool rewards? Well, meetBeanstack, the ultimate reading
app used by a community of over15,000 schools, libraries, and
(02:16):
organizations nationwide. Areyou an avid reader? Check with
your local library to see ifthey offer Beanstack for free. A
parent?
Ask your child's teacher if theschool library already uses
Beanstack. And if you are aneducator searching for a fresh
alternative to acceleratedreader, Beanstack is the perfect
(02:37):
tool to cultivate a thrivingreading culture. Ready to turn
the page? Visit beanstack.com tolearn more. Okay.
Before we get into the the heavyhitting questions or get
started, I wanted to know ifyou've always gone by Becky. Are
you Rebecca in some circles?Been Becky since a young age?
Becky Albertalli (02:56):
I'm only Rebecca if I'm in trouble. I
have always been Becky.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (02:59):
You seem very into nicknames. Mhmm. In
your book, nicknames play animportant role.
Becky Albertalli (03:03):
I don't know that I necessarily put a lot of
thought into my own nickname.It's just, like, kind of always
what I was called.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:10):
Okay. Back to Georgia. Tell me about your
your early early childhood.
Becky Albertalli (03:13):
I grew up in the Northern Suburbs of Atlanta.
Anybody who's read my bookswould recognize the suburb where
I grew up is where, like, Simonand Leah live. They renamed it
in the books. They call it ShadyCreek, but it is, like, a very,
very thinly veiled sandysprings. And I feel like the
(03:36):
helpful point of reference isthat at the time when I was
growing up there, you know, theeighties and then the nineties,
that was around the time when mydistrict sent Newt Gingrich to
congress.
My family was not a part ofthat. I think the only time my
mom put a political sign in ouryard was for the guy running
(03:56):
against him. But he still wonjust to give a sense of what it
was like there. So it's aconservative leaning, affluent
suburb close to Atlanta that itwasn't that rural picture that
people sometimes will paint intheir heads when you talk about
Georgia. It is a lot more purplenow than it used to be.
(04:17):
I mean, it has been really niceto watch that evolution. You
know, it's easy to feel reallyhopeless these days. And one of
the, things I keep coming backto when I'm trying to stave off
that despair is just bigpicture. When I look at my
hometown, that progress isundeniable to me.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (04:37):
You said Newt Gingrich. I know you're
Jewish. What was it like growingup in that environment? Were
you, like, one of few, one ofmany?
Becky Albertalli (04:45):
You know, I went to this smallish, maybe
medium sized public high schoolthat had an international
studies magnet program, and itattracted students from outside
our geographic district as wellas, like, the people who were
zoned for it. So it was a reallycool diverse group of kids.
(05:06):
Like, you would walk through thehallways, and there were a lot
of languages spoken, and thatwas just something that, you
know, was part of the culture ofmy high school.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:17):
Yeah.
Becky Albertalli (05:18):
It was, I would say, fairly progressive in
some ways for a high school inthe late nineties, early two
thousands, especially inGeorgia.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:28):
Okay. So your high school had this, like
what you're describing is this,like, dynamic diverse energy,
basically, especially for thattime and place that we both grew
up in. But I'm curious what youwere like in that setting, I
guess, growing up and how youdescribe yourself back then or,
I guess, how you think otherpeople might have described you.
Becky Albertalli (05:46):
I'm shy and the kind of kid who got told
frequently on my report cardsthat I was very conscientious
and a pleasure to have in class.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:54):
I have to tell you, they
have so many parallels. When I was in
fifth grade, I won the mostconscientious award.
So I just find that very funny. And my
parents were so proud. I'm like,what does conscientious mean?
I wanna be the best at sports or something
cool, like, pretty is.
I know. Sorry. Go ahead. You were a
little shy and conscientious.
Becky Albertalli (06:12):
It's so funny. You got, like, flagged as
conscientious back then. Youdefinitely have a job related to
bookstore. But I found, like,this journal that I wrote, I
think it was, like, secondgrade. My favorite quote from my
journal, which I think reallycaptures who I was at the time,
was, you must know I hateschool, but I'm very good in it.
(06:34):
So
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (06:37):
You already had your voice, your writer
voice.
Becky Albertalli (06:39):
Yeah. I think, you know, in retrospect, I was,
like, wildly ADHD andovercompensating all the time.
So I think that might be why Ihated school but was good in it.
Mhmm. Yeah.
I didn't get in trouble. I didkinda discover theater in middle
school and started doing theplays. And I was, like, in the
background and stuff, and thenit was, like, coming out of my
(07:00):
shell and theater saved me. AndI felt, you know, for all of
middle school and high schoolthat theater was my
recalibration. Like, that washow I started to define myself.
So I was a big time theater kid,but it was not, like, typically
the lead role or anything. Iwas, you know, I think
ultimately too awkward for that.I did get a lead role once
(07:23):
senior year because the maincharacter was very awkward. I
played just this very, like,earnest twelve year old girl.
You know, it was maybe a naturalfit for me at age 18.
And I was definitely, you know,happiest during high school when
I was, like, staying afterschool, working on the sets. And
(07:43):
I loved, like, rehearsing. Iloved, like, being a part of the
ensemble. Oh my gosh. My journalentries about that, like, coming
down period are so emo.
It is Really? Ridicule like, oh,they, like, they really read,
like I I can't even remember thewording, but it's like if you
were to take a theater kid, youknow, and, like, turn it into a
(08:07):
journal entry. The drama. Oh, itwas yeah. Like, those were hard
times for me.
Like, the day after we took theset down.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:18):
In the theater, being part of the
ensemble gave Becky a sense ofpurpose and a place to land. But
outside of that space, it washarder. Becky has said in other
interviews that she grew up fat.And like Leah, the main
character in her book, Leah onthe offbeat, she didn't always
feel at ease in her own body.Growing up in a body that was
constantly being judged,especially in the nineties,
(08:40):
shaped not just how others sawBecky, but how much or how
little of her own desires thatBecky was willing to share.
Becky Albertalli (08:48):
In many ways, being a fat kid was certainly
one of, if not, like, thedefining experience for me in
terms of what was really rightthere on the surface. And I
still see the way that itimpacted, you know, just I don't
know. The ripple effect waspretty intense, I think. I was
(09:08):
definitely bullied. It was thenineties.
You know, I remember fifth gradein particular. It's actually
fifth grade is the worst for me.I was at this lunch table where
the thing that we did that daywas, like, just I sat there at
my assigned seat and got, like,intensely bullied to my face.
And it didn't occur to me. Ididn't feel like I could tell
anybody.
(09:29):
It just literally didn't evenoccur to me that I could say
anything.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:32):
You felt like I had to just take it?
Becky Albertalli (09:34):
Yeah. Because it was my assigned seat. You
know? Mhmm. So it's not like Itook that very seriously.
You know, one of the things Ikeep coming back to is that I,
for many reasons, didn't evenhave the ability to see that or
process it. I didn't have thelanguage for it, and a lot of
(09:55):
that was my environment, thecultural context of, like,
living in Georgia, you know, inthe nineties. There was this
part of me that felt like, youknow, I was fundamentally
unattractive. Me liking somebodywould be a burden on them. The
idea of opening that door to theidea that I could have a broader
pool of people who I could berejected by, because that is
(10:18):
what it meant to me.
To like someone was to openyourself up to inevitable
rejection. And so it's like, Ican't imagine a world where I
would have explored that. Ididn't even explore it in my own
head. And a lot of that,particularly, at the time was
tied to body stuff. That was alot of what I was bullied for.
(10:40):
So, yeah, not a fun time to be afat Ken and a very confusing
time to be a little bisexualKen. Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:49):
Coupled with the fact that at the time,
there was not, like, mainstreamlanguage that there is today
around these different ways tobe queer. And I'm like, my kids,
they had this full lexicon totalk about sexuality with this
amazing degree of, like,specificity. You know? But in my
high school, I don't know. Was,like, gay, straight.
That was it. Pretty much. I feltlike it was pretty black and
white. You know? And I just Iknow that was probably a
(11:09):
limitation for you at that agetoo.
Yeah.
Becky Albertalli (11:12):
Well, I remember I knew the word
bisexual by the time I was inhigh school, and I'm thinking
probably that came directly fromrent, like, specifically from
rent.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:21):
Rent gave us so much.
Becky Albertalli (11:23):
Rent gave us so much. But, you know, I had a
very narrow view of what thatcould mean. Like, it would be
preposterous for me to bebisexual like Maureen from Rent
who attracts boys and girls, andI was attracting none of the
above. I
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:47):
did wanna ask about the media that you
were consuming growing up andhow that might have impacted
your perceptions of queernessand and so forth as you were,
you know, in high school, middleschool?
Becky Albertalli (11:59):
Yeah. Okay. So one of my biggest influences,
you know, as a writer, as aperson, just to my core is The
Babysitter's Club. I read everysingle one. I actually read The
Babysitter's Little Sister, likethe ones about Karen.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:13):
Oh, that's the next level. Okay.
Becky Albertalli (12:14):
I've been with The Babysitter's Club since I
was seven or something. And Ithink that is fundamentally a
very queer series. Those bookswere published during a
particular cultural moment, butI think they have aged
remarkably well. And I think,you know, there is a kind of
(12:34):
queerness about them that Ithink a lot of, like, queer kids
or kids who would you know,adults who would eventually come
to realize that they were queersaw something in that series
that felt safe.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:47):
Do you wanna say a little bit more
about that? It feels like you'rethinking beyond the
relationships among the girlsand so forth too.
Becky Albertalli (12:54):
There's a lot. I think, like I mean, Christy
Thomas, the president, isdefinitely one who I think,
like, a lot of sapphic womenfeel connected to. And then I
think, you know, some of it isjust the emphasis on the
relationships among these girlsand their friendships and the
intimacy of that series. It'sbeen interesting to kind of
(13:15):
follow that franchise as well. Iwatch every adaptation,
actually.
The one that came out in thenineties, I watched that again
recently on a plane. I don'tknow about, like, Stacy and her
love interest. There was alittle bit of an age gap that
I'm not sure, like, would flytoday with that particular
adaptation. I still love thatmovie, though. Yeah.
The Netflix one was such a coolupdate Yes. On the original
(13:38):
series. It was so much in thespirit of the books. I believe
Anna Martin was very involved.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (13:43):
Mhmm.
Becky Albertalli (13:43):
There was a trans kid among the babysitting
kids in Stony Brook. I don'twanna give any spoilers, but we
do have one of the babysitterscome out as queer. And, I don't
know. It's a safe space of aseries.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:01):
Like theater, the Babysitter's Club
was Becky's safe space, a seriesshe adored then and proudly
revisits now. But like a lot ofbookish kids, she eventually hit
that inevitable phase, the onewhere loving something like the
babysitter's club suddenly feltuncool.
Becky Albertalli (14:18):
I went through a phase in high school where I
was, like, a pretentious littlereader. You know? I I remember
walking into books and I'vealways loved You. But at one
point, I felt like it wasembarrassing to love You. Oh.
I got over that. And I got overit fairly quickly. But I think
(14:41):
during the time when I was aYou, I was like I was reading a
lot of, like, very thickliterary kind of books. Mhmm.
Some of which I still love.
Like, I remember in high school,I really loved a prayer for Owen
Meaney.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:52):
Oh my god. I I love that book. I should
reread that book.
Becky Albertalli (14:54):
I love that book. Oh, I brought this, like,
weathered old I met John Irvingat a festival once, and I was
like, I'm a fan. And I thinkhe's probably, you know, maybe
he thought it was being nice,and then I, like, pull out this
copy of own meaning that's beenread, like, a thousand times.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (15:15):
College is where a lot of people have their
great awakening. And on a campuslike Wesleyan's, queer,
creative, full of chalked upsidewalks, and found family
energy, you'd think that's whereBecky would have come out. Side
note, turns out Becky and I havean uncanny amount in common.
I'll share more about that inthe newsletter, but let's just
say that we even won the samesuperlative in fifth grade. I
(15:38):
digress.
And as a Wesleyan grad myself, Ican vouch for the very open vibe
on campus. Spoken word poetrywas everywhere, and we even had
alternatives to dorms on campuslike womanist house or eclectic
house. I mean, it was aprogressive, quirky, accepting
place to come into adulthood.That is for sure.
Becky Albertalli (15:59):
One thing about Wesleyan that I think is
really interesting in retrospectkind of puzzle pieces coming
together
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (16:05):
Mhmm.
Becky Albertalli (16:06):
Is I remember visiting the campus as a senior.
I had found out maybe the daybefore my visit that I got in. I
was there with my dad. And sofirst, my dad did not love
Wesleyan. He had some strongopinions about the dorm rooms,
which he just felt were notaesthetically pleasing, I guess.
Like, they looked to him, theylooked like motel. I don't know
(16:28):
what he was expecting. Like,they're
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (16:29):
like paying what? For what?
Becky Albertalli (16:30):
They look like doors. I don't know if he was
used to kinda the big southernschools or something, like, had
a different kind of aesthetic.So while he was doing his one
man comedy show, Riffing on theDorms, I was falling in love
with this school trying toexplain why I loved the chalking
on the sidewalk. People wouldchalk pictures and messages and
(16:53):
write social justice things and,like, it's a lot of, like, gay
stuff. Yeah.
There are, like, all these,like, gay flyers everywhere. And
I was like, this place appealsto me as an ally. You know, it's
an ally to the, the gaycommunity. To my dad's credit
too, as soon as he found out, Iactually seriously loved the
school. He gave another shot.
(17:14):
We went back. And he was fullyopen to it and has been gently,
affectionately mocking me aboutit for, you know, like, thirty
something years. It
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:26):
makes sense that you went there and felt
like, okay. I wanna be in thisenvironment. I think Wesleyan
was like you might not havefound a more, like, open people
who are just, like, discoveringthemselves, welcoming
environment for all. And I thinkthere's no, like, mistaking it
when you go on campus, even inthe late nineties. You know?
(17:47):
I think it's like there was nomistaking that that you knew
that upon walking into thecampus. So I guess you felt that
connection. Like, you must havefelt like, okay. I wanna be
here.
Becky Albertalli (17:56):
Yeah. I didn't understand it at all. Like, you
would think I would say, like,it takes a special someone maybe
to, like, go through four yearskind of immersed in Wesleyan
and, like, actively loving thequeerness of Wesleyan without
understanding why. You know, Ialso wrote Simon versus the Homo
Sapiens Agenda and still didn'tget it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (18:17):
So you're a special kind of person?
Becky Albertalli (18:18):
I am a special case. Yes. Dear Emily, check it
out. I just saved the lives ofthe whole school. I'm on the
oval right now, and I can hardlysee this paper through my tears
of life giving joy.
Okay. Check it out. I'll tellyou what happened. I was in the
(18:40):
admin block outside theprincipal's office. I won't go
into the reasons why I was therebecause it would destroy the
flow of the story.
The fact is I was there and onmy own because the secretary
just went out for a moment andthe telephone rang. So I answer
the phone, hello? And this voicegoes, hello? And I go, hello?
And this voice goes, what?
So I go, Brookfield High School,how may I direct your call,
(19:02):
please? As per what I hear thesecretary say every time I'm
waiting there. Then this voicegoes, yes. Hello. I'm with local
gas authority, and I'm callingfrom the basement of your school
here.
I'm just checking the main gasline, and there is a serious
leak here. Really, so seriousthat at any moment there could
be an explosion. I, myself, amabout to run to my car and get
the hell away, but I thought Ishould let you know so you can
(19:24):
sound the fire alarm and geteverybody out of the school and
onto the oval. Check out howcool I was under pressure. I
just said, thank you very muchand please get yourself out of
there and save your own life.
Then I hung up, switched on thePA system and said, there is a
gas leak in the basement of theschool. There is no need to
panic. It is just a gas leak,which may lead to an explosion
(19:45):
at any moment. Please all go tothe oval as per the fire drills.
Then I found the fire alarm andpressed the button.
So then, of course, the doorsall around me open and the
principal practically kills meto switch off the PA, and
somehow I landed on the officefloor, but I kept my dignity. So
that explains why I am on theOval right now and not doing my
(20:05):
origins of the first World Warexamination and also why I have
now got a new faith in humanityon account of being its savior.
When you think about it, theyoung people are the future, so
I have saved the future.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:18):
Becky just read from the year of secret
assignments by JacquelineMoriarty. A dark, funny,
heartfelt novel told throughletters, emails, and other mixed
media storytelling. It followsthree best friends whose school
pen pal project spirals intounexpected friendships, romance,
and a dangerous game of revenge.The excerpt was a letter written
(20:39):
by Charlie to his pen pal Emily.Becky first read the book when
she was at Wesleyan, emergingfrom what she calls her quote
pretentious reader phase.
For the first time, she feltproud to be reading You,
intimate and irreverent all atonce. Moriarty's prose showed
her that you were allowed towrite like that.
Becky Albertalli (20:59):
One of the things that was such a
revelation to me was the,specificity of the voice, that
quality that people sometimeswithin publishing will talk
about, like voiciness. You know?That feeling that you kind of
are hearing this character,like, speak to you directly. I
just, like, really picked it offthe shelf and gave it a shot out
(21:23):
of nowhere as I was bravelywalking toward the You section,
like, willing to be seen there.You know?
I was, like, just old enoughthat I understood that, like,
you could actually, like, readthese books. You know? Reading
her books, and this was thefirst of hers that I had read
and I have since read. I have,like, a massive shelf just,
(21:45):
like, full of her books. Like, Iremain a super fan for life.
You know? But, yeah. This was myfirst encounter with her. And it
was like, I didn't know you wereallowed to write like that, I
guess. One of the things I wasfighting against at that time of
my life, like, in my collegeyears, my twenties, was this
idea I had that, like, well, youcan't actually be an author.
(22:07):
You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:08):
So it's not that you didn't want to be an
author. It's that you felt likethat's not real.
Becky Albertalli (22:11):
It didn't seem like a real job. So I fell in
love with Jacqueline Moriarty asa reader, but, you know, that
was really something that I heldwith me because I think for a
long time, I had this idea thatto be a writer, you have to
write in a particular way. Andmaybe that was, like, coming off
of my, like, literary phase inhigh school. I
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:33):
don't know. Right. You're reading Owen
Meaney. Like, I don't know ifI'm gonna do this.
Becky Albertalli (22:36):
Yeah. I don't know. It just, like, unlocks
something for me just howconversational and intimate her
writing always feels for me.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:46):
Moriarty's influence emerged with the
publication of Becky's debutnovel, Simon versus the Homo
Sapiens Agenda. Becky wrote itafter a decade of working as a
psychologist specializing inLGBTQ plus teens, and she placed
a gay high schoolers coming outstruggles front and center. As
it turned out, she chose hermain character for reasons even
(23:07):
she didn't entirely realize.
Becky Albertalli (23:09):
Yeah. It's interesting because my answer
now is very different than itwas at the time. You know, at
the time, a lot of it was a bigmystery to me. I don't know. I
had this entire chain of eventsthat I felt like brought me
there.
At the time, it was like, youknow, this book started with
Simon, and he was just thischaracter who felt really
(23:32):
important to me. And Simonhimself, like his personality, I
mean, he is a lot like me. His,like, kind of internal monologue
is a lot like mine. I gave himmy birthday. I put him at my
high school.
It's a very thinly veiledversion of my high school.
There's always been enough of mein that book obscured the other
parts of me that were in thatbook. You know? Yeah. In
(23:55):
retrospect, it's really easy tosee.
But it's like, can hardly standto read that book because it's
so embarrassing to read how loudI was and how many very obvious
signs that I missed. It's like,Simon is in there in his own
brain saying things like,sometimes it feels like
everybody knows who I am exceptme. I don't think straight
people really think about comingout. As I was drafting Simon, I
(24:19):
wrote the part where Simon youknow, he's like, this is
supposed to be my thing. I'msupposed to decide.
And, like, I wrote that andburst into I was, like, having a
writer's moment. You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:29):
Yeah. But in retrospect, of course, you're
looking back and sort of reallyseeing everything for what it
was. Mhmm.
In 2020, after decades of skirting around
her sexuality, that thing shehad suppressed, yet had always
been staring her in the face,Becky came out to the public via
an essay on Medium.
Becky Albertalli (24:49):
It did feel like something I had to do, but
I, you know, I came out to myparents, close friends and
family and inner circle, and I,was was and am unbelievably
lucky in a lot of ways. I didn'thave to risk what some people
have to risk. You know? And itwas still unbelievably hard. The
(25:10):
public aspect of it is reallycomplicated.
And I think more than anythingelse I mean, time has helped in
therapy. But being able to kindof write my way into it and
understand that experience andthere were kind of always two
simultaneous stories happeningwith my coming out. One was the
(25:33):
realization and breaking throughsome of that denial and
repression and seeing kind ofwhat was right there in front of
me. And I gave that story toImogen. And I think kind of the
other piece to it is that publicaspect, the discourse, the
parasocial soup that I wasswimming in for that whole
(25:57):
experience.
I guess I I could say I workedthrough that experience in the,
Amelia book. I would say,actually, I gave that experience
to Walter, who is a character inthat book. Yeah. So those two
stories really they really arecompanions to each other. They
are set in the same universe,but they also are maybe the two
sides of the coin when it comesto my own, like, coming out
(26:19):
experience.
And it was unbelievably helpfulto write those books. Writing
has always been the way that Ipuzzle through things and work
through things and process them.So grateful for all of my books
and everything that's come withthem, but, those two in
particular, you know, havereally helped me understand and
(26:41):
work through that traumaticexperience.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:44):
Yeah. You have, like, this cast of
characters, and it feels likethey're each sort of, like,
holding a little piece ofsomething. You know?
Becky Albertalli (26:50):
Yeah. They are.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:52):
I I highlighted this quote from
Imogen, if only, and it reads, Iwas a human sailboat blown in
every direction by a storm ofdecades old media discourse. Am
I allowed to love this? Andreally, I think it speaks to
this idea of permission. Like,I'm I'm allowed to love who I
love or be who I am. And in yourbooks, like, friendship just
(27:13):
always plays such an importantrole.
We talked a little about thebabysitter's club and friendship
there. And I don't know. Couldyou talk about the role of close
friendships in helping you oryour characters find your way?
Becky Albertalli (27:24):
Yeah. I mean, that's kind of one of those
things that I've always I feellike it's almost like sheer luck
that I have had through everystage of my life, really true
friends and close friends of,you know, various genders too,
not all women. But I have had alot of close friendships with
girls when I was younger withwomen in my adulthood. Also,
(27:46):
like, with my sister, you know,who I have forgiven for reading
my diary. When I was a teenager,when I was the age that I'm
writing, I was getting noaction.
I did not have the romance sideof the story, but I did have the
safety of a real friend groupand close friendships that made
(28:09):
space for growth and change.That's something that's carried
into adulthood with some of thesame people, some different
people. I'm really grateful forthat.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:23):
Becky's reading challenge will come as
no surprise. It's titled queercoming of age stories. The list
is packed with identity shifts,big feelings, and characters
trying to make sense ofthemselves one awkward moment at
a time.
Becky Albertalli (28:38):
Okay. So I put coming of age stories, many of
which are kind of about, like,unpacking queer identity, but
broader than that, I didn'tstick too closely necessarily to
the theme. I've got, like, anice long list, and I am big
fans of all of these. And, also,this was painful to, like, get
down the Lesbianist Guide toCatholic School by Sonora Reyes.
(29:01):
Darius the Great is Not Okay byAdeeb Koram.
Nothing Burns as Bright as You,Ashley Woodfolk. This Day
Changes Everything, EdwardUnderhill. Dear Wendy, Anne
Zhao, man o war, Corey McCarthy.I have to plug a very new
release, nobody in particular bySophie Gonzales. Also, like, all
(29:26):
of these guys have, like,backlists and stuff too.
It's like, oh, I've got so manymore.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (29:31):
You can find Becky's reading challenge
and all past reading challengesat the readingculturepod.com.
And this week's Beanstackfeatured librarian is Kelly
Shelton, an elementary librarianfor Garland ISD in Garland,
Texas. She's been an educatorfor twenty six years and in the
(29:54):
library for nearly a decade.Kelly shares how unlocking a
love of reading can start withdinosaurs, dog man, or a well
timed Taylor Swift break.
KellyShelton (30:05):
My heart for readers is just find them where
they are. Like, what do theylove? Let them read. Doesn't
matter about reading level.Doesn't matter if they don't
quite get it.
You can help them, but just letthem read what they want. And so
as a librarian, I love that Iget to be like, here's your
dinosaurs. Here's your cat kid.This year, I had a second
grader, and he really had a hardtime. He just could not be
(30:27):
still.
And I was like, what is in yourhead? What are you doing? And he
was like, I'm singing this song.And I was like, what song? He
loved Taylor Swift.
He was a Swifty. But I got everybook we possibly could find
about Taylor Swift for this kid.And so we read epic. We read
every article we could find. Andso if he could sit for me and do
what I needed him to do in thelibrary, when the class was
(30:49):
over, he would get a TaylorSwift brace.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:55):
This has been the reading culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Becky
Albertalli. Again, I'm yourhost, Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and
currently, I'm reading the threelives of Kate k by Kate Fagan
and Red Queen by VictoriaAveyard. If you enjoyed today's
episode, please take one minuteto give us five stars on Apple
or Spotify or wherever youlisten. Your reviews really help
(31:17):
the show get recommended toother people, so everyone
counts, and thank you very much.This episode was produced by Mel
Webb and Lower Street Media andscript edited by Josiah Lamberto
Egan.
To learn more about how you canhelp grow your community's
reading culture, you can checkout all of our resources at
beanstack.com, and remember tosign up for our newsletter at
(31:38):
the readingculturepod.comforward slash newsletter for
special offers and bonuscontent. Thanks for listening,
and keep reading.
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