*ICYMI* Cool To Be You: Kwame Alexander On Authenticity - The Reading Culture

Episode Transcript
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Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:00):
Hey, everyone. Jordan here. I hope
that you're enjoying thesummertime and getting some much
needed rest and relaxation. Weare taking a short summer break
this week. So in lieu of a newepisode, we're giving you
another opportunity to listen toone that you may have missed
with my good friend and one ofmy very favorite writers, Kwame
Alexander.

(00:21):
I was lucky enough to see Kwamespeak at the American Library
Association's annual conferencein Philadelphia this summer
where he interviewed formerlibrarian of congress Carla
Hayden. They talked about thepower of poetry, the role of
libraries in creating access andimagination, how doctor Hayden
remains hopeful and positivedespite all of it, and, of

(00:42):
course, how books can help kidsbe better humans and dream
bigger. It was so inspiring, andI wanted to revisit his episode
in honor of that wonderfulconversation. Kwame also
released a new ish book calledSay Yes at the April, which has
a blurb at the beginning that'sfrom yours truly. It's my first.

(01:03):
And, oh, your quick reminder toenter our summer reading
giveaway for your chance to wina book by any author who we've
had featured on the show, plusthe special reading culture mug
that I send to all of ourguests. To enter, just like and
comment on our summer readinggiveaway post on Instagram and
subscribe to our newsletter atthereadingculturepod.com/newsletter.

(01:25):
Better yet, if you tag a friend,you can win together. Alright. I
hope you enjoy this episode ofKwame, which initially aired in
September.
So that makes it an oldie, but agoodie. And for real, the ending
still makes me laugh. And truestory, Kwame played that last
bit on his in home speakersystem for everyone at a brunch

(01:47):
that he hosted. So once youlisten, just imagine.
Oh, Lord.
Alright. Thanks for being here. Have a
wonderful summer, and may all ofyour summer reading bring you a
little slice of joy. Okay. On tothe show.

Kwame Alexander (02:05):
I'm just being real. I'm telling my story. I
think Nikki Giovanni calls itdancing naked on the floor. I am
unafraid. I'm doing my dance.
And if you like it, great. Ifyou

don't, go home. So, yeah, I'm just being
me. And I guess I I don't feellike I can go wrong if I'm just
being me.
Kwame Alexander's stories and
characters ring with remarkableauthenticity. Kids and parent
parents around the country andreally around the world are his
mega fans, and that includesyours truly. Has become a beacon

(02:39):
for genuine representation,particularly for young black
boys, and he does it by simplybeing honest. Kwame is renowned
for his books, The Crossover,The Undefeated, The Door of No
Return and numerous othernovels, picture books and poetry
collections. He recentlyauthored his memoir, Why Fathers
Cry at Night.

(03:00):
His exceptional work has earnedhim prestigious awards including
the Newbery Medal and CorettaScott King Book Award and this
year the crossover was adaptedinto a Disney plus original TV
series. In this episode, Kwamediscusses growing up in a family
steeped in black storytellingand literature, tells us how he
came very close to ending up asa biochemist, and reveals the

(03:23):
secret to making middleschoolers think he's cool. He'll
also tell us about the letterthat was specifically not fan
mail, which inspired a surprisevisit to an unsuspecting
student. Oh, and hot tip, stickaround until the very end for a
hilarious bonus track. My nameis Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and this

(03:43):
is the reading culture, a showwhere we speak with authors and
illustrators to explore ways tobuild a stronger culture of
reading in our communities.
We dive into their personalexperiences, their inspirations,
and why their stories and ideasmotivate kids to read more. Make
sure to check us out onInstagram for giveaways at the
reading culture pod, and you canalso subscribe to our newsletter

(04:05):
atthereadingculturepod.com/newsletter.
Alright. On to the show.
As a glasses wearer, you have an
amazing stable of glasses. Sobefore we get into your life and
times of Kwame Alexander, let'stalk about your glasses versus
your shoes. Do you feel thatyour glasses game or your shoe

(04:28):
game is stronger?

First of all, thank you for having me on your
brilliant podcast, and I wishyour awesome listeners could
hear you or could see youbecause you got the fly glasses
on right now.

Whatever. I got a few I
have to I had to decide.
You know, I have to see. Had a few other
pairs. Like, which ones am Igonna wear for Kwame? You know?

But it's this is a podcast. Like, who

I know, but we're on video.

It's true. I mean and plus, in order to sound
good, you gotta look good, so Iget it. It's it was a eyeglass
thing for me before it became ashoe thing. Like, I'm still
figuring out my shoe game, butonce I realized that I couldn't
see, I said, well. And at thesame time, my sort of hair was I

(05:18):
had these long locks and my hairwas falling out as it were.
It's like, oh, okay. So maybeI'm gonna go bald. So if I'm
gonna wear glasses, they need tobe they need to make a statement
because that's, like, the onlything on my head that's going to
matter. But so so, yeah, it'sdefinitely eyewear. The shoe
thing is much more difficultbecause I wear a size sixteen.
So where can I find the flyshoes? And I'm getting older, so

(05:41):
where can I find the fly shoesthat feel comfortable?

Those orthopedic fly shoes.

Yeah. Okay.

That doesn't go together. It doesn't.
Okay, Kwame. We're gonna we're gonna
start the interview for realnow. So prepare. Alright. You've
you've spoken a lot about yourmom and her influence on you,
and I wanna hear about that.
And I first wanna acknowledgethat today, as we are recording,

(06:08):
is September 1, and that isactually the anniversary of her
passing, I read. So first, Ijust wanna know how you're
celebrating her life today.

Well, I appreciate that. I'm on Folly
Beach in Charleston, SouthCarolina, a place she really
loved. We spent time here as

a family just vacationing and stuff, and
she loved to sit outside in themorning and listen to the ocean.

So I had planned this trip for my
siblings, their families, mydad, but didn't really think
about the fact that it was mythe anniversary of my mom's
passing. I literally didn'tthink that, Jordan. I was like,
I'm just gonna get a beachhouse. It's the end of the
summer. It's Labor Day weekend.
Let's just all get together. Andthen a couple weeks

ago, someone I think

I was being interviewed and someone casually
mentioned, well, youranniversary of your mom's
passing is coming up. They askedsort of a similar question to
that you just asked, and it hitme, oh, snap. I'm gonna be on
Folly Beach with my family. So Iin a way, it was sort of like

(07:15):
her having her hand in in mylife again, just sort of, you
know, whether you believe in theuniverse, the creator, whomever
you believe in, the ancestors,you know, have an impact on us.
I think she probably hassomething to do with me being
here, but I'm here to celebrateher.
I'm probably gonna do a walk onthe beach and just reflect and
try to, you know, have thinkabout all the precious memories

(07:38):
and but yeah. Yeah. Just to bewith my dad and my sisters and
sort of just connect and engagewith them. I'm sure that'll be
comforting.

Yeah. That sounds very nice. Can you talk a
bit about the influence thatyour mom had on you as a reader?

I think it's fitting that I'm here on the
anniversary of the passing ofher of my mother, and I'm on
this podcast called The ReadingCulture. That's fitting because,
like, was one half of the duothat instituted this reading
culture in our home, in ourlives. Like, books were so much

(08:20):
a part of our our existence andand story, the power of story.
Like so my mom was astoryteller, like an official
storyteller. Like, she went tothe national storyteller
conventions.

Amazing.

And so she used to tell us, like, we were her
practice audience. You know, thebeautiful girl with no teeth or
Mojamines one. I mean, she isconstantly telling us these
stories that I still knowverbatim to this day. And so
that was always exciting to beable to hear and see someone

(08:57):
perform theatrically in yourbedroom at bedtime. Like, bed
bedtime stories really camealive.
The read aloud, readers'theater, folktales, they were a
part of our lives on a dailybasis, bedtime, breakfast table,
in the car. So it was alwaysvery informal, and then

(09:20):
sometimes it was formal. Shewould do storytelling at church,
you know, in Sunday school. Andso it just became a part of our
lives, and we all became adeptat being able to to share our
words, to find our voice, and tolift them up. Yeah.
It was just a part of us, man.And my mom and dad, you know,
they played their roles in that.They're in making that happen.

Yeah. Sounds like your dad played
well, you had so many books inyour house. I love that story
about the garage. Just I thinkthe visual for me of you having
all these books and just havingso many books, like, they're
everywhere. I read this articleonce about, like, the negative
of decluttering, I guess.
Like, everybody was obsessedwith Marie Kondo and declutter
your house and make everythingneat and what have you, but the

(10:06):
flip of that is that youprobably would never get the
experience you had in thatgarage, right, where there's
just stuff to explore.

Yeah. I mean, when I was in the garage, I
could come across an old reportcard from my dad's, a newspaper
clipping from the air force whenhe played basketball, you know,
a book of poems, a novel, justso much stuff, like information.
And I just found myself beingreally curious and inquisitive

(10:34):
and reading everything. A lot ofcosmetology books, because he
was a barber in the air force.So how to cut hair.
Just random stuff. And so I justsoaked it all in and soaked it
all up. And it definitelycontributed to me, you know,
having a certain level offamiliarity with with books and

(10:57):
a certain comfortability aroundbooks and literature. Because I
I had been exposed to everygenre from very easy reading
poetry to war and peace. Like,everything was there.
The time will come when withelation, you will greet yourself

(11:19):
arriving at your own door inyour own mirror, and each will
smile at the others welcome andsay, sit here, eat. You will
love again the stranger who wasyourself. Give wine, give bread,
give back your heart to itself,to the stranger who has loved
you all your life, whom youignored for another, who knows

(11:41):
you by heart. Take down the loveletters from the bookshelf, the
photographs, the desperatenotes. Peel your own image from
the mirror.
Sit. Feast on your life.

Love after love can be found in Derek
Walcott's collection, CollectedPoems 1948 to 1984. Walcott, a
Nobel Prize winning Caribbeanpoet, playwright, and essayist,
was known for his boldexplorations of life and
cultural heritage throughphilosophical and metaphorically
laced writing. A young Kwame wason his way to a very non

(12:17):
literary career when heencountered Walcott's work, and
that discovery hit like alightning bolt, forever altering
the course of his life.

My dad was a book publisher, and I worked for
him most of my child and youngadult life. And from time to
time, he would take me toconferences and trade shows, and
I'd be in charge of selling thebooks, working the table. And so
there was a big conferencehappening in London. I think it

(12:45):
was 1987. It was called thethird world radical book
publishers, black bookpublishers convention or
something.
It was publishers of blackliterature from around the
world, basically. And so Ididn't really want to go to
work, but I wanted to go toLondon. Then we got to the book

(13:09):
fair and my dad was doingworkshops and teaching and
mingling and doing deals, and Iwas working the table and
meeting different people andselling these books by Alice
Walker and Sheikh Antti Diop andChancellor Williams and Frantz
Fanon and Pearl Klieg and justand meeting so many cool people.

(13:29):
Somebody gave said, I met thiswoman, because there's always a
woman in the story. I met thiswoman and she is we kind of
flirted.
And I was maybe a sophomore incollege. Maybe she was a grad
student. I was way in over myhead. She invited me to a play
that night. And so we went tosee this play called Beef No
Chicken, and it was a play byDerek Walcott, the Saint Lucian

(13:54):
poet.
And I remember just being blownaway by it. And I remember going
back and asking my dad, well,why don't we sell Derek
Walcott's books? And then I endup going to a bookstore or to
another publisher's table andfinding one of his poetry books.
And I remember reading this poemcalled Love After Love.

And I was just like, woah. That was Yeah.
Incredible.

And then the next night, I went to this
Caribbean restaurant, and theNigerian novelist Ben Okri was
there, and I had just seen hisbook, The Famish Road. And I was
just in this whole writerlyworld, you know, as a sophomore
in college. And I was just I wasfloored by it and inspired by it

(14:45):
and, like, so excited to be init. And I think, you know, that
trip to London began sort of myjourney away from biochemistry.

Yeah. You were a biochemistry major?

Yeah. And headed towards writing.

Yeah. It's interesting because
you really grew up with books, but so
they've been reading somethingabout that, what, just being in
that milieu or whatever justreally, like, sealed it
for you? I mean, you were taking these
classes.

Oh, yeah. Because I

was taking

chemistry and biochem and physics and but
something about that London tripand reading these these poets
and seeing that play and meetingother artists and and just being
in that mix, it just it affectedme. And I wanted like, I've been
in a way, you know, for the pastthirty years, I've been trying

(15:35):
to recreate that moment. What invarious sort of these these
varied experiences that I've hadis all about creating the energy
and the inspiration of thatmoment where you felt like your
responsibility was to find yourvoice, lift your voice up, do

(15:56):
something meaningful with yourvoice, and enjoy that experience
to the fullest.

Quick detour, back when this podcast
was still just an idea on anapkin, I had a lot of
discussions with my kids aboutthe authors that inspired them
the most. Cassius immediatelythought of Kwame, but he said,
well,
you won't be able
to get him. But, like I told him, never
underestimate the power of amother. As the mother of a

(16:29):
middle school boy, I thinkKwame's work is so important.
This is a crucial age fordeveloping emotional skills and
it's a bit of a magic windowwhen there's a real opportunity
to show boys how essential it isto be a complex human, including
showing tenderness or sadness orany of the soft feelings boys
are oftentimes trained to stifleor to hide. Meanwhile, their

(16:52):
demographic is commonly put inthe category of reluctant
readers.
But one thing I hear repeatedlyfrom teachers is that Kwame's
books are different. They getboys excited to read and even to
read about, yes, you guessed it,feelings. I wanted to know how
Kwame thinks about writing forthis audience and why his
approach works so well.

I feel like it's middle school is such an
important time for us to nurtureand develop the kind of boys we
want to grow into beautiful men.And I think in sixth, seventh,
and eighth grade, we have anopportunity to sort of change
the narrative in how boysinteract and engage and how we

(17:38):
think about them. Like, I feellike part of my responsibility
in in with my books is to createcharacters that represent and
reflect the kind of boy I wasand the kind of boys that that I
some of the boys that I engagewith and, you know, and that is
okay and is cool to besensitive, to be thoughtful, to

(18:04):
be loving. Those are coolthings. It's okay to write a
poem, you know?
Yeah. It's okay to do some ofthese things that we, you know,
generally haven't shown boysthat it's okay to do or be. I
was in Kenya recently, and Iremember talking to some of the
Kenyan men, I was like, is itokay? Like, do y'all cry here as

(18:26):
men? And one of the men waslike, oh, no.
No. We don't cry. We have nevercried. We have never cried. We
were beat we were beaten.
And they've talked they talkedhow they were beaten as boys,
that they cried because it justshowed weakness. And so I think
part of my job is to just toshow a different side of

(18:48):
masculinity as I grow intobecoming a better father, son,
lover. I feel like part of myjob is is to help show another
side. So I just createcharacters that are authentic to
me, that I care about, that areme, that based on me and my

(19:08):
friends, and hopefully boys willconnect with it and and they'll
they'll do what this kid namedWoody in Bryan, Texas did after
I read to him and hisclassmates. He was like, can I
have a hug?
I've had that engagement with alot of boys around the country.
You know, that sort of thinghappen. They're floored at the

(19:31):
impact of the words. Like, wehad no idea words could do that,
could make us feel that, couldmake us feel something, could
make this whole auditorium feelsomething. And, like and then
you get it.
Boys are asking, hey, god. Can Iget that poem written down so I
can use it later? You know? I'mlike, you

could buy the book.

You can have it all the time. I'm at Center City
Public Charter School inWashington DC. The students are
watching the crossover TVseries, and they're watching the
episode that I was in. And thenI'm gonna walk in the classroom.
They all know I'm here.
This is so exciting. What's up?

Kwame's devoted fan base, of course,
includes girls and boys andplenty of adults, anyone who
connects with genuine charactersand compelling stories. And that
devotion is happilyreciprocated. Kwame's commitment
to supporting his readers goesbeyond the pages of his books.

When I was growing up, my parents used to
take me to a lot of poetryreadings and book fairs, and
there'd be artists and writerscoming over to the house. Like,
I was just in this environmentwhere the words came off the
page. Like, the words werealive. The books were alive. And
it just became matter of fact tome.

(20:57):
This is just this is just a partof life. This is a part of the
artist's way. And it's just so Icouldn't articulate it how
inspirational it was then, but Irealize now how how
inspirational it was. You know,I've sort of operated in that
tradition. Sometimes it doestake a whole lot, but most of
the time, it doesn't take awhole lot for me to just show up

(21:19):
for a kid.
So I was living in London duringCOVID, and I remember somehow I
got a fan letter to my Londonaddress from a fifth grader in
Santa Monica. I was like, how inthe heck did this fifth grader
get my address? And she wrote methis really long praising letter

(21:46):
about my work and how much sheloves it and she thanked me for
it. And her friends had read TheCrossover and Rebounding book.
And then she in her lastparagraph, she said, but how
come you never have any girls asmain characters?

(22:06):
And we feel you have aresponsibility.

And she just went on. I was like, dang,

who is this kid? And then she said, sorry if
this sounds too pushy.Sincerely. And then she wrote
her name, and then she said,note to publisher. If the
publisher gets this letterrather than mister Kwame
Alexander, please send it to himdirectly and do not sort it as
fan mail.

(22:32):
This is not fan mail. This is arequest letter, something much
more than fan mail. Thank youvery much.

Amazing.

So I had a meeting at Disney. I was we were
working on the crossover, so Ihad to fly to LA. So I was like,
well, I'll just take an hour,and I'll drive over to Santa
Monica, and I'll surprise her.I'll show up in her classroom.
Like, took two hours of my day.
And so that wasn't a big greatdeal of time while I was in LA,

(23:00):
but it was in the tradition ofme trying to create these
environments where young peopleare inspired, where I like I was
inspired. Those times changed mymy worldview, you know, impacted
my life, got me on this journey.And so if there's a way that I
can do that for kids, I'm allfor it. Plus it inspires me,
Jordan. Like, it gets me kind ofamped up too.

Yeah. What happened when you showed up
there?

So I I had gotten her aunt's info online,
had done some due diligence. Soher aunt and I planned the
surprise. So when I showed up inher class, she was pretty
floored. I filmed it, but shewas pretty floored, like,
couldn't believe it. Herclassmates were like, what what
just happened?

(23:45):
And then she proceeded to say,so did you read my letter? What
do you think?

Yeah. What's your feedback? Like, did
you accept my feedback?

Exactly. Exactly. But yeah. So it was and
we spent I spent, like, fortyfive minutes with him, gave away
some books, answered somequestions. That kind of stuff is
real meaningful to me, you know,to let kids know they matter.

Yeah. Is that what sparked the Kwame
showed up, like, movement of a
man that you started? Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the first one was in February, maybe
'17, and I had shown up at akid's school in Chapel Hill. His
teacher had given me a note thenight before at a library a
library event at a book signing,and I read the note, and it was
from him. You know, he he hadnever read a book before and he
couldn't put it down. So Ishowed up at his school, and his

(24:31):
reaction was incredible.
He just started running up anddown the hall screaming like, he
couldn't believe it. And he wentand got all his friends out of
class and told them to come out.

It's not, like, mind blowing, but I just
like the idea that you that thekids are, like, running around
excited. To me, an author,
to have that kind it's just, like,
that's very beautiful.

It It's incredible. No. It is. It's it's
a great feeling, and it meansthe world because it's one thing
to write a book. It's anotherthing to know that it's having
the kind of impact that youcould never have imagined on on
a kid, and that's what you want.

It is. It is. And I mean, as a former
teacher, I think that gettingkids to geek out about reading
and writing and poetry is veryhard. So what would you say is
in your your secret sauce?

Well, I think I'm cool. And not in some of
this sort of fake old guy cool.Like, I just feel like I'm in
touch with the kid in me, andI'm authentic and real in that
respect. Like, I'm not trying towrite for a certain age. I'm

(25:42):
just trying to write for the kidin Kwame what I would have loved
to have read when I was thatage, you know, and
simultaneously what I love toread now.
So I think just I'm just beingreal. I'm telling my story. I
think Nikki Giovanni calls itdancing naked on the floor. I am

(26:02):
unafraid. I'm doing my dance.
And if you like it, great. Ifyou don't, go home.

So, yeah, I'm just being me. And I guess I
I don't feel like I can go wrongif I'm just being me.
So good. So good. You are definitely just
being you. And for you, Kwame,you have these, like you have
had this extremely extensivecareer, and you could rest on

(26:30):
your laurels right now and keepdoing your dance, but I suspect
that that is not your plan. Sowhat are some of your next big
goals?
What's coming up for you?

There's quite a few things that, from a business
standpoint, I'd still love todo. But most importantly, I just
wanna work on being a betterhuman being. I know that sounds
cliche, but I just wanna sort offigure out that in the way that
I figured out my business life.I wanna have a little bit more
understanding and control andvision when it comes to my

(27:04):
personal life, which I think iswhy the memoir served as a great
door opener for that thebeginning of that journey. But I
got more stories to tell, youknow, and I got different ways I
wanna tell those stories,whether they be on stage or on
the big screen or or in a book.
So I definitely wanna explorethat. One of my biggest dreams,

(27:28):
and this is something that Ithink will be sort of the the
thing that a big part of,hopefully, my legacy is to build
a a retreat center, a writingretreat center. I do a lot of
writing retreats at my house andjust different places, and I
just I wanna have a place whereI can have people come and it's

(27:49):
on the water. See, got somedreams, Jordan. I got some
dreams.

You definitely have those. And on
the topic of building up newwriters, I'm also aware of
another TV project that you haveupcoming.

I'm producing a TV show called America's Next
Great Author. Six writers livingin a house for thirty days, and
they have to finish a novel,50,000 words. And the way we
choose the six writers is we goaround the country, and we hold
American Idol style auditions.And people come to these
auditions, and they get 60 topitch their book to a panel of

(28:26):
judges. So we're we're in sortof development stage now, and
the goal is to shoot it theseason season one next year.
We shot a proof of concept wherewe have four pretty amazing
judges, David Starry, JasonReynolds, Marga, and Victoria

(28:46):
Christopher Murray. And it wasamazing. We had 800 writers
audition, and we chose 75finalists who all flew to Newark
for the American Idol styleaudition, and it was pretty
phenomenal. So so working onthat, developing that.

That's cool.

It's gonna be a lot of fun.

Talk about celebrating authors and, you
know, elevating, celebratingauthors. That's that's Oh, I

like that. Celebrating and elevating. I
like that.

And as a fellow podcaster, I would be
remiss if I didn't let Kwameplug his own upcoming podcast
based on his memoir, Why FathersCry at Night.

September 24 is my dad's birthday. He'll be 82.
And, so launching a podcastcalled Why Fathers Cry. And,
every Sunday, each week, Iinterview, have a conversation
with a different father.

As a small stop on his quest to inspire the
next generation of writers,Kwame's reading and writing
challenge, blackout, is allabout using your own creativity.
Your favorite book, one page,
photocopy it, black out some of

the words, leave only the words that you
want that will then create apoem when you read them. It's a
blackout poem.

You can find more details about Kwame's
reading challenge and all pastreading challenges from authors
such as Jacqueline Woodson, MegMedina, and John Klassen at the
readingculturepod.com. Thisepisode's Beanstack featured
librarian is Kirsten Weaver, theprogramming specialist for the

(30:24):
Indianapolis Public Library. Shehad some heartwarming stories to
share about a book club she runsfor teens at a residential
treatment facility.

Kirsten Weaver (30:32):
I do a book club at a residential treatment
facility where the kids are allcourt mandated there. Some of
them are good readers, some ofthem aren't the best readers,
and that's okay. We read outloud and we read together and we
discuss as we go. One of myfavorite stories is one of our
kids was struggling. And Iopened my mouth to say, it's
okay, take your time, it's gonnabe good.
And before I could say it, oneof the other kids did. They

(30:54):
said, slow down. Take your time.We'll wait. And the rest of the
kids in the class echoed it andsaid, yeah.
We're not going anywhere. Theywere so supportive of the other
kid. That was awesome. I alsolove the fact that this book
club that I do, we actually getto give the kids the books they
get to keep them after, and alot of these kids have never

(31:14):
owned a book before in theirlife. Like, when I tell them
that they can keep the books atthe beginning of the year that
we read when we finish them,they're shocked because nobody's
ever given them books to keep.
And they not only keep them, butlike when they get past his
home, they'll take them home andgive them to siblings or parents
to read so that when they gohome the next time they could
talk about the books. And theygo back and the kids who aren't

(31:36):
part of the book club, they willshare the books with those kids
so that they can then talk tothem about it. And, you know, I
love the fact that, you know,we're instilling this love of
reading so much that they'reencouraging them and without
even asking them to to spreadit. And they are sharing that
love of reading that they'redeveloping.

This has been the reading culture and
you've been listening to ourconversation with Kwame
Alexander. Again, I'm your hostJordan Lloyd Bookie and
currently I'm reading CrookManifesto by Colston Whitehead
and A First Time for Everythingby Dan Santat. If you enjoy
today's show, please show somelove and give us a five star
review. It just takes a secondand it really helps us. To learn

(32:20):
more about how you can help growyour community's reading
culture, you can check out allof our resources at
beanstack.com and remember tosign up for our newsletter at
thereadingculturepod.com forwardslash newsletter for special
offers and bonus content thisepisode was produced by Jackie
Lamport and lower street mediaand script edited by Josiah

(32:40):
Lamberto Egan thanks for joiningand keep reading Oh, you're
still here?
Well, in this episode, we have abit of an after show. Here's a
question I asked Kwame earlierin the interview, but it seemed
a little risque to includeupfront. Listen at your own

(33:04):
risk.
I'm wondering also what your love
life was like in middle and highschool because okay. Yeah. It's
all read

it because business.

Here's why. Because all your books, there's
always a little

Yep.

You know Yep. Side or central story that
is, you know, it's veryimportant. And I found it like
very interesting to read WhyFathers Cry at Night and then go
back and reread. I'd alreadyread, because I would oftentimes
read a lot of books with withCassius, you know.

Yep.

And to go back and reread, I'm like, he
was working some stuff out here.Now that I'm coming back,
if I'm psychoanalyzing you. But for
real,
I did I did wonder, did you have, you know,
girlfriends and stuff like that?Because it's really it feels
very authentic.

I had desire. I had longing. I mean, I was a
romantic kid. So when I waseight or nine or 10, there was a
girl in New York. I took aliking to her.
And one day, I remember justwaking up and just staring at
the ceiling at 10 years old andjust saying, I'm in love. I'm in

(34:07):
love. George, I remember Iremember just debating how am I
gonna how are you gonna, youknow, let her know? And I
remember calling my parents orgoing in my parents' room and
saying, look, guys, I'm in love,and I need to go spend some time
with this girl. So can I pleasego and stay over at her house?
Or I don't think I said it likethat, Jordan, but I do remember

(34:31):
that that weekend or that nightor something, I was at her house
and I spent the night. We werefriends, of course, so I slept
on the floor next to her bed.And I remember her saying, I
don't even know if you you mighthave to bleep this out at some
point on the reading culturepodcast people. She said, can

(34:51):
you come and I can't even sayit. It's so silly.

What did she say?

She said, can she said, Kwame. I I think I
said, like, I like you. And shesaid, if you like me, come and
suck my toes.

What the fuck? No. Like,

you gotta boost that.

I did not I did not expect you to say that.

Right. Right.

Oh my. Oh my god. But my point was my
point was Go on.

Was a little fast.

Like, I was I mean, yeah, nine years old.

I was like, I don't know if I can handle this.
I I may not be ready for love,for real love. But no. But I
just had these experiences whereI just liked people a lot. And
and when I liked them a lot, itjust it moved me.
So I've I've I had a lot ofinterest and a lot of lot of
crushes, not a whole lot ofreciprocation, which, of course,

(35:51):
you know, makes you long anddesire even more. So I listened
to a lot of love songs and reada lot of love poems to get think
it sort of tied me over.

Yeah. You're a poet. You're a poet. As
I was I read this out loud lastnight when I was like I read
this, The Door of No Return.

Uh-huh.

But I was rereading, I'm like, you know
what? This poem called Ama

Mhmm.

If you were a mango, I would peel you

Yep.

Peel you Yep. Keep you from myself and
reveal you. I'm like, this thisis this is hot stuff. I was
reading I said, Cassius, whenyou read this, what, you know,
what were you thinking? Youknow, I'm trying to get
information from him, and I'mlike, this is this is the most
beautiful thing ever.
So

Yeah. Love is love love has always been a
thing, for me, as you know,reading Why Father's Cry at
Night.

Mhmm. Yeah.

Just trying to figure out, reconcile,
understand, do better.

Yeah. Let's move a little into your kinda
wanna know if you sucked yourtoes. I have to

ask You can't ask me that. Like, it's it's
enough for me to say it. Nowthey have to, like, answer it. I
can't answer that. Move questionnumber two.
Let's move on.

Oh my god. Is this

the first time you've had conversation about
toes on the reading culture?

Definitely. Definitely. A 100% all. This is
a first. Okay.
And I have to be I've never comeacross it in the interviews I've
listened to with you, so therewe go.

You're the only person I've ever told that
about. So there you go. Youwanna be here.

There you go. I'm currently here first.
That'll make kids wanna read.

I don't

know I don't

know what that says about your podcast, but
there you go.

Alright, y'all. Don't say I didn't warn
you. That's it for real for thisepisode. We'll see you in two
weeks and keep reading.

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ICYMI Cool To Be You: Kwame Alexander On Authenticity

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}*ICYMI* Cool To Be You: Kwame Alexander On Authenticity