July 9, 2025 • 38 mins
"We all need to have radical hope. I have my really hopeless days too, but… it’s such a privilege to get to live and to survive. Our job is to live, and I think that’s a really amazing thing.” - Jasmine Warga
We all want to make the most of our time here. Not just survive, but dream big and live fully. For Jasmine Warga, that means carrying forward the strength of those before her while creating space for joy, curiosity, and self-discovery. It means letting go of perfection, holding on to radical hope, and writing stories that reflect kids’ realities.
Jasmine Warga is a Newbery Honor winner and New York Times bestselling author of Other Words for Home, The Shape of Thunder, A Rover’s Story, and more. Her work explores identity, belonging, and how being different can be what unites us.
In this episode, Our Job is to Live: Jasmine Warga on Belonging and Radical Hope, Jasmine shares what it was like growing up as a mixed kid and daughter of an immigrant in Ohio, her lightbulb moment while teaching sixth grade, and how Animorphs, surrealist art and a dash of Virginia Woolf shaped not only her voice as a writer, but also her commitment to living joyfully, and spreading joy to others.
***
For her reading challenge, Read Global, Jasmine invites adult readers to step outside the familiar and read more broadly, beyond their own borders.
Peruse selected titles and Jasmine’s full reading challenge for free at thereadingculturepod.com/jasmine-warga
This week's Beanstack Featured Librarian is Cassie Owens Moore, a middle school librarian in South Carolina at Seneca Middle School. She shares how a group of fired-up sixth graders convinced her that Marvel and manga deserved their own sections of her library, and why building a great library means working for your students.
Show Chapters
Chapter 1: Where Are You From?
Chapter 2: The Other Side of Home
Chapter 3: So Many Questions
Chapter 4: The Hours
Chapter 5: I Am The Mars Rover
Chapter 6: No One’s Gonna Read This Book
Chapter 7: Radical Hope
Chapter 8: Reading Challenge
Chapter 9: Beanstack Featured Librarian
Links
- The Reading Culture
- The Reading Culture Newsletter Signup
- Follow The Reading Culture on Instagram (for giveaways and bonus content)
- Jasmine Warga
- Jasmine Warga Instagram
- Mr. Schu (Jasmine’s neighbor)
- Palestinians in Jordan
- Animorphs
- The Hours
- Camille Claudel
- Beanstack resources to build your community’s reading culture
- Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Host and Production Credits
Host: Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Producers: Mel Webb and Lower Street Media
Script Editors: Josia Lamberto-Egan, Mel Webb, Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jasmine Warga (00:04):
The immigrant straightaway that the first
generation works, like, so hardjust to have, like, stability
and to live, and then it's thesecond generation that really
gets to, like, dream.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:12):
As Hamilton and Lafayette say on Broadway,
immigrants, we get the job done.Yes. And the daughter of an
immigrant and this week's guestreminds us that if we are lucky
enough to have someone lay thatfoundation for us, then it's our
job to honor their gift byleaning fully into life.
Jasmine Warga (00:32):
We all need to have radical hope. Believe me, I
am a really hopeless days too,but it's such a privilege to get
to live and to survive. Our jobis to live,
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:43):
and I think that's a really amazing thing.
Jasmine Morga is a Newbery honorwinner and New York Times
bestselling author of OtherWords for Home, The Shape of
Thunder, A Rover Story, and manymore. Her work explores
identity, belonging, and howbeing different can be what
unites us. In this episode,Jasmine shares what it was like
(01:06):
growing up as a mixed kid in theMidwest, her light bulb moment
while teaching sixth grade, andhow Animorphs, surrealist art,
and a dash of Virginia Woolfshaped not only her voice as a
writer, but also her commitmentto living joyfully and spreading
joy to others. My name is JordanLloyd Bookie, and this is the
(01:28):
reading culture, a show where wespeak with diverse authors about
ways to build stronger cultureof reading in our communities.
We dive deep into their personalexperiences and inspirations.
Our show is made possible byBeanstack, the leading solution
for motivating people to readmore. Learn more at
beanstack.com, and make sure tocheck us out on Instagram at the
(01:50):
reading culture pod andsubscribe to our newsletter for
bonus content at thereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter alright On tothe show. Hey, listeners. Are
you looking for a fun, easy wayto track your reading and earn
cool rewards?
(02:12):
Meet Beanstack, the ultimatereading app used by a community
of over 15,000 schools,libraries, and organizations
nationwide. Are you an avidreader? Check with your local
library to see if they offerBeanstack for free. A parent?
Ask your child's teacher if theschool library already uses
(02:32):
Beanstack.
And if you are an educatorsearching for a fresh
alternative to acceleratedreader, Beanstack is the perfect
tool to cultivate a thrivingreading culture. Ready to turn
the page? Visit beanstack.com tolearn more. How are you doing,
(02:52):
Jasmine? We're you're inIllinois, mister Shoe's
neighbor, famously.
Jasmine Warga (02:57):
Oh, I love John. He is such a special person. I
feel like that's one of thegifts of the universe that we
are neighbors.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:03):
We'll start at the beginning. You're a
Midwest girl like me. You'refrom Cincinnati.
Jasmine Warga (03:08):
I am inordinately proud to be from Cincinnati. I
think it's a really specialMidwestern city that it's really
sits, you know, on thatintersection between the Midwest
and the South. But I grew up ina small town in the Cincinnati
area, which is where my motherhad grown up. My dad is a
Palestinian immigrant. And Ithink early on, the insularness
(03:31):
of the town was both comfortingand confusing to me because I
was asked really early on whereI was from because it was such a
small town.
And I presented differently thanmy classmates. And I it took me
a little bit to understand thatwas the question, was sort of
identifying my ethnic identity.But that was a little bit
puzzling when you're a kid and,you know, your best friend who
(03:53):
lives next door to you isn'tbeing asked that same type of
question. So I think early on,it was a place where I became
really curious about my identityand what it meant to be from
here, but my dad was from thisother place, and I had this
connection to this other place.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (04:07):
I feel like probably for you growing up,
people when you would say yourdad was a Palestinian refugee
and immigrant from Jordan,people probably had no idea, you
know, were, like, ignorant towhat that really meant, and that
must be so different for yourown kids and for you now to have
there be such, like, a very,very public conversation and
(04:30):
knowledge about Palestine nowtoday. You know?
Jasmine Warga (04:34):
Yeah. I mean, for sure. I mean, early on, I sort
of learned to self erasePalestine from when I would talk
about my identity just becausepeople didn't understand what
that meant. So I would say mydad's from Jordan. Mhmm.
And I also was coached reallyearly on for my dad to
acknowledge Jordan becauseJordan is the only country in
the Middle East that gavecitizenship to Palestinian
(04:55):
refugees. And because my fatherwas granted citizenship from
Jordan, he was able to get aneducation, which obviously
shaped the whole course of hislife and my family's life. And
so it is really complicated tobe from this one place, also be
from this other place. Like,I've never visited anywhere in
sort of the Palestinianterritories. I've only ever been
(05:18):
to Jordan, but all of my familythere is Palestinian.
And when we used to go in thesummer, they would quiz me and
say, what are you? And theywanted the answer to be
Palestinian, not Jordanian, andthat was really important to
them. And so I think all thoselayers of identity and trying to
figure out how they could alladd up to something that felt
like wholeness. I think for along time, I felt like I had all
these different parts of myself,and they were competing with one
(05:40):
another. And I think part ofwriting for me has been a
project of trying to put allthose pieces back together.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:47):
Were you always, like, the only one more
or less when you were youngerwho was, like, a brown kid in
your school, in your area?
Jasmine Warga (05:54):
A 100%. We were the only I was the only Muslim
kid in my class. Mhmm. So onlykid, as far as I know, who had a
parent who was have been born ina different country. And I think
for a long time, I just wantedto, like, pass.
I wanted to blend in. I wantedfor the teacher not to
(06:14):
immediately be like, where areyou from?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (06:16):
So interesting and also just so
interesting to be like a a mixedkid with like those dual
identities, which I thinknowadays is far more common and,
you know, but then was justreally you kinda had to pick,
you know, in a different way forkids then.
Jasmine Warga (06:30):
Yeah. Because in lots of ways, had a very
typical, like, white Midwesternchildhood experience of, like,
my core childhood memories arewatching the Cincinnati Bengals
on Sundays at my grandparents'house. You know? So I feel
whereas, like, a lot of my,like, Arab and Middle Eastern
friends now that I have anadulthood aren't mixed. And so
their view of their identity,while they, like, I think had
(06:53):
all of the similar, like,wanting to blend in type
feelings I had, It's a littlebit different because, like,
they were getting acohesiveness, like, feeling of,
like, well, this is my identity.
And I think I was always like, Idon't know. Like, I never feel
like I'm enough of either thing.Like, when we go in the summer
to The Middle East, I'mAmerican, and I don't speak
(07:14):
Arabic well. And Mhmm. But whenI was back in Cincinnati, I was
immediately recognized assomehow being different from my
classmates.
Right?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (07:23):
Right. Yeah. I'm a parent of mixed
kids, so I believe that in thelong run, it's like, it's so
great. Your your whole view ofthe world is different. You're
constantly, like, you are bydefinition an empathetic person
because you have to view theworld from, like, these multiple
lenses every single day.
But it's hard, especially then.I think it's easier today than
it was.
Jasmine Warga (07:43):
Yeah. No. It's again, I think there's a lot of
what I talk about at schoolvisits, but I think those things
that made you insecure and alittle bit confused as a kid are
the things as an adult you'rethe most proud of. And I feel
like I've really leaned into mymixedness, and I love it now.
And I love that it's, like,unexpected.
I feel like I'm way more Ohiothan a lot of people expect.
(08:05):
Yeah. And I'm also so proud ofmy era of background and feel
very connected to that, and Ithink those things can really
coexist. And like you said, Ithink we're seeing more and more
kids with that type ofbackground in America. And I
think that's really beautiful.
I think that's kind of whatAmerica should be in it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:21):
Like many authors on this show, Jasmine's
questions of identity markedmuch of her childhood. She
straddled many worlds and triedto make sense of her multi
ethnic background in a communitywhere that wasn't the norm.
Reading became a way to try ondifferent identities, to see
herself in new places, and tomake sense of the world around
her.
Jasmine Warga (08:42):
I think because I had such a flimsy sense of self,
I was actually a really, reallygreat reader and that I was so
easily able to try on thepersonality of every main
character that I read and Iloved being fully absorbed in
these worlds. And so I lovedAnimorphs. My favorite book from
when I was a kid was Ella andJanet, and I, like, lived in
(09:04):
that world. I wrote what wouldnow be called fan fiction, but
about Animorphs and Ella andJanet. And I remember The Giver
was a book that really, reallymade me think, right, about this
idea of, like, do you have tohave sadness in order to
sometimes feel happiness andbeing fascinated by that
concept.
I would read almost everything,and I was really lucky that I
(09:25):
had an amazing children'slibrarian at the local library
in Wyoming that was constantlygiving books. I remember she
saved friendle for me when itcame in, and I loved it. And
when I think back on books, havea really positive association
with my reading life from, like,fourth to seventh grade of I was
sort of never a better readerthan between those ages. And I
(09:45):
think something about yourbrain, like, you have that
growing awareness that you'reable to really engage with, the
philosophy meat of the book, butyou're also really able to,
like, believe that you're inthis other world or you're on
this adventure in a way thatsometimes I think becomes a
little bit harder the older weget to, like, fully transport in
that way.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:04):
Were your parents big readers too?
Jasmine Warga (10:06):
Both of my parents really big readers, and
my mom also read to me all thetime. Like, I was one of the
later kids in my grade to learnMhmm. To read, like,
independently on my own. But Ithink I never had a bad
association with reading becausemy mom was really patient, and I
think it was always, like, areally Mhmm. Joyful experience
because she was always readingto us.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:28):
Well, do you remember some of the books
that she read aloud to you?
Jasmine Warga (10:32):
Yeah. Of course. She read Girl of the Lumber Lost
to me and I remember loving thatbook. All of the Anne of King
Gables books. Oh, yeah.
We read, you know, of course,Matilda and Charlotte's Web.
Those are some of the ones Ireally distinctly remember.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:49):
What about, like, storytelling? What was the
role of storytelling in yourlife? I'm particularly
interested from your, I guess,dad's side of the family because
I can imagine especially, likeyou said, you're sort of from
three places really
Jasmine Warga (11:01):
Yes.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:01):
How that, like, storytelling element
probably is particularlyimportant there, but I'm just
interested in some of thatfabric of your early life.
Jasmine Warga (11:09):
It's pretty amazing to me that I'm pretty
sure my earliest childhoodmemory is of me sitting on my
grandma, my father's mother'slap, and she's telling me a
story. And I only met her twotimes in my whole life. She came
to visit us in Cincinnati, andshe was telling me a story about
mermaids that live in the DeadSea. And I remember this feeling
(11:30):
of, like, she's sharingsomething with me that's
important about our family. Andthen what I remember the most is
that at end the of the story,she asked me to tell her a story
about my home in Ohio, and Ithink that was her way of sort
of teaching me that storytellingis sharing.
Right? And it's the way that wecan communicate about things
that matter to us and thingsthat we love. And definitely,
(11:54):
like, dad told my brother and Iso many stories about his
childhood, though in a similarway, I think, that to lots of
people who have immigrantparents who have experienced
pretty big traumas. It's also mydad is reticent to share certain
things, and I've had to pullthem out of him as an adult who
understands more to be able toask more, like, questions. So,
(12:16):
like, I was told a lot of, like,silly stories as a kid and good
war and those are important.
But then I as I became an adult,I had more, like, draft
questions about childhood. And Ireally remember when I was about
a teenager and we were visitingJordan, and I was begging to see
the old apartment where theyused to live. It was in the,
(12:38):
like, old side of Amman on theEast Side of the city. And my
dad, he finally caved and droveus there, but he wouldn't get
out of the car. He wouldn't goin.
And I remember thinking, like,oh my god. This is so weird. But
the apartment itself, you know,was so small. It was, like,
smaller than my bedroom backhome, which also was something
(13:00):
I'd understood, but it's adifferent thing to, like, see it
and see what it looked like. Butgetting him to actually, like,
really talk about real concretedetails of his childhood is much
harder than some of these, like,family stories or Arabic
proverbs or things that like,those were the types of stories
Mhmm.
That are fun, right, that hewould tell my brother and I like
(13:21):
those kinda nighttime bedtimestories. But recently as an
adult, I become reallyinterested in wanting to know,
like, real narrative storiesfrom his child. But he's really
firm about loving the country ofJordan and feeling like the
country of Jordan gave him andhis family this new life. It's
funny. He's much, like, calmerthan me when I'm, like, spitting
(13:43):
out or feeling upset.
Like, he really has this feelingof being, like, you know, our
job is to live, which issomething my grandma used to say
to him all the time. And I thinkthat's a really amazing thing.
And then also, I think mybrother and I can, like, feel
differently because there's morelike, we have more privilege and
space to feel differently that,like, we are surviving. Like, we
(14:06):
can ask for more of that tosurvive. And I think that that
is obviously not unique to myfamily.
I think in lots of ways, that'sthe Mhmm. Kind of the immigrant
story that the first generationworks, like, so hard just to
have, like, stability and tolive, and then it's the second
generation that really gets to,like, dream.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:21):
Yeah. And do you feel like our job is to
live, which I love that? And youfeel like you're living that out
in a different way than he sortof
Jasmine Warga (14:29):
Yeah. Yeah. I definitely do. But I think that
that's good for me to rememberthat he's like, it's good to,
like, be engaged and obviouslyremember. He's like, but you
can't make yourself sick.
Like, you need to live. Like,that is your job.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:44):
Jasmine imagined becoming a writer as
soon as she learned it was areal job back in the first
grade. But she didn't grow upknowing any authors and didn't
see anyone she could pictureherself becoming. Just as she
said, her father's hard workgave her the privilege of higher
education and the chance to takeher time figuring out what
exactly she dreamed of becoming.She thought of writing, but that
(15:09):
dream felt fragile. So for along time, she kept it tucked
away.
Jasmine Warga (15:15):
In college, I studied history and art history,
and I don't know why I thoughtthat that was gonna be, like,
more practical than I washonestly, the the truth is that
I was really scared to saycreative writing because Mhmm. I
had never shared my work withanyone, and I was really afraid
of getting feedback. And it tookme a long time to understand
that that's how you get better.Right? But I think I was being
(15:37):
really afraid of somebodytelling me, like, you're not
good at this.
And, like, my dream felt reallyfragile and something I was,
like, holding on to. But I thinkI studied stories in a different
way. Like, history is narrativeand especially, like, art
history is so visual. But Ialways said I wanted to be a
writer, but I wasn't reallyactively trying to create things
(15:57):
in college. Like, it neveroccurred to me to write for kids
until after I graduated fromcollege.
I was a sixth grade teacher, andthat's when I had this, like,
light bulb moment of being,like, those are the books I
loved the best. Middle schoolwas really hard for me. Like, I
have so much that I wanna say inthis space.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (16:15):
I wonder since you're an art history
major if there was like anartist or particular piece of
art or anything that was reallyformative for you or something
that sort of shifted yourperspective at that time.
Jasmine Warga (16:27):
I love surrealist art. Like, I really like, I
remember being fascinated by,like, Salvador Dali's paintings
and, like, how visual they areand how many questions you can
have about them. But I also lovethe story of Camille Claudel,
was, like, the sculptor whoworked with Rodin. And she
famously did, like, all of thehands on the Rodin sculptures,
which are the harder part. Butthen was kind of, like, thrown
(16:49):
away into this, like, mentalasylum.
In part, she was, like, she washaving some struggles, but also
she'd been having this, like,affair with Rodin, and he didn't
want it just felt, like, sotorrid and terrible, but also,
like, dramatic, and it just,like, appealed to my 19, 20 year
old interest.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:09):
Yes. Torrid. That's so true. I've
been to the Rodin Museum acouple of times, but I did not
know that story about CamilleClaudel. But it reminds me a bit
of this line from your book thatI highlighted.
It's a strange thing happened inCherry Hall that reads, all
great art is a mystery waitingto be solved. And, well, I guess
(17:32):
her work on Rodin's hands wasalso its own kind of mystery as
you put it too.
Jasmine Warga (17:37):
For sure. That's what I I love about art and
that's what I like like to dowith kids at school visits is
like show one of theseinteresting paintings and have
them ask questions about thatand show them that's what
storytelling is. It's justasking questions. It's not
knowing anything. It's payingattention and asking questions
and saying, hey.
Have you ever wondered aboutthis too? Or what if? And I
(17:59):
think that that makes it feel,like, much more accessible and
fun, this idea of, like, youhave to know something and then
write that down to share. And Ialways explain it's never, like,
I know something. It's more thatI'm curious, and I wanna share
my curiosity with you.
We throw our parties. We abandonour families to live alone in
(18:21):
Canada. We struggle to writebooks that do not change the
world despite our gifts and ourunstinting efforts, our most
extravagant hopes. We live ourlives, do whatever we do, and
then we sleep. It's as simpleand ordinary as that.
A few jump out windows or drownthemselves or take pills. More
die by accident, and most of usare slowly devoured by some
(18:44):
disease or, if we're veryfortunate, by time itself.
There's just this forconsolation, an hour here or
there when our lives seemagainst all odds and
expectations to burst open andgive us everything we've ever
imagined. Though everyone butchildren, and perhaps even they,
know these hours will inevitablybe followed by others, far
(19:09):
darker and more difficult,Still, we cherish the city, the
morning. We hope, more thananything, for more.
I remember one morning gettingup at dawn. There was such a
sense of possibility. You knowthat feeling. And I remember
thinking to myself, so this isthe beginning of happiness. This
(19:31):
is where it starts.
And of course, there will alwaysbe more. It never occurred to me
it wasn't the beginning. It washappiness. It was the moment
right then.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (19:42):
Jasmine read from The Hours by Michael
Cunningham, a novel that weavestogether the lives of three
women across different timeperiods, all connected by
Virginia Woolf's missusDalloway. Jasmine first read The
Hours as a high school seniorand at the time, she was
overwhelmed by dense readingassignments and had mostly lost
touch with the joy of readingfor pleasure. But The Hours
(20:05):
cracked something open. It wasdark, yes, but also accessible
and emotionally alive in a waythat felt totally new.
Jasmine Warga (20:19):
I think that that was the time of my life where I
was really feeling like, oh, mychildhood has come to an end.
And so I think I was reallyinterested in the idea of the
passage of time and, like, whatdoes that mean? But now it's so
funny. This, like, resonateswith me so differently at the
moment in my life that I'm atright now being, like, okay.
(20:40):
This one perfect afternoon withmy family, I'm gonna hold on to
it.
That's a pocket of joy. Love itright then and not worry so much
about what comes after. But Ithink that what I love about
books is how you can revisitthem. And so it like, that this
struck me at 18, and it stillstrikes me now, but maybe in a
little bit of a different way.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:59):
Yeah. I like hear echoes of what your
dad and your grandma say in thattoo. You know? And then just,
like, also thinking abouthappiness is not like a constant
state. Contentment can be.
Jasmine Warga (21:11):
Yeah.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:12):
But then this idea of just, we all we
want more time, and only thosereally wise kids really are the
ones who know that you don'thave it endlessly. You know?
Jasmine Warga (21:19):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's such a blurry space,
right, where you go from being akid to an adult. And in some
ways, you never feel older thanbut you're such a baby. I don't
know.
So the book, like, really it'sstill really strange. And that
passage almost makes me cryevery time of this idea of I've
had so many of those moments ofyou're just so happy and at
(21:41):
peace. And I think, you know,I've gotten better at, like,
appreciating them for what theyare and not reaching for the
next thing, right, or thinkingabout sustaining it, but
understanding, like, the beautyis in the fleetingness of it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:56):
Perfectly said. Well, thank you for that.
I think that is, like,interesting to have that be sort
of, like, the you know, for thatto be, like, the book that kinda
catapulted you back into soundslike just reading for pleasure.
Jasmine Warga (22:09):
It was a really, like, kind of faux intellectual
18, 19 year old of,
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:14):
like Mhmm.
Jasmine Warga (22:15):
Loving that it was, like, weaving what already
had the stamp of being, like,approved literature. Because I
think that was also a tension Ifelt at 18 because I understood
in kind of the hallowed halls ofacademia that the serious
academics were not interested increating. Mhmm. And so I wonder
too if that's why I was keepingthat impulse desire a little bit
(22:38):
touched close to, like, mychest. Because there was
something I had this feeling of,like, wanting to be taken, like,
very seriously, which is veryfunny now given the type of
books I wanna write and how Ithink about it, but that was
something I don't know.
And, again, I don't know ifthat's, like, craving that
approval from, like, aninstitutional type approval of
that somehow, in some kind ofunconscious way, stems back to
(23:01):
all of those other identityquestions I had of knowing,
like, okay. Well, this isapproved. If I know about this,
you fit it. You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (23:08):
Yeah. Right.
Jasmine Warga (23:09):
And so this book, like, made sense to be kind of a
gateway book because I think mymom knew that I'd be willing to
read that because of thatVirginia Woolf hook.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (23:18):
Tapping back into reading helped Jasmine
recover something she'd almostset aside, her creative voice.
But it didn't immediately leadher to writing. Instead, after
college, she joined Teach ForAmerica and wound up in a middle
school science classroom inTexas.
Jasmine Warga (23:35):
So it had been tagged, particularly because of
our low standardized testscores, particularly in reading.
And it made me really sad that,like, none of my students
thought of themselves as readersby and large. And I've sort of
had memories of being like, thatwas my favorite part of that
age. And so I decided that forthe last ten minutes of every
class, I would read aloud tothem. And from watching them
(23:58):
fall in love with the books Iwas reading aloud and, like,
going to the bookstore andselecting books for kids that
had been published since I'vebeen a kid, particularly, I
remember, like, reading to themWhen You Reach Me by Rebecca
Stead and being like, this isthe most amazing book in the
whole world.
I felt just, like, so inspiredit. And I can only describe it
(24:19):
as a light bulb moment of beinglike, oh, wow. This is, like,
what I wanna do. I wanna be apart of this world. I wanna
write books that hopefully makekids wanna be readers, but more
importantly, feel less alone.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:32):
And do you do a lot of, like, school visits
for all of your books?
Jasmine Warga (24:36):
Yeah. Yeah. I do. I do. Which is really cool to
go, like, across the country.
I see all different kinds ofschools, but then also there's,
like, this universal thing of,like, 11 year olds everywhere.
This, like, intersectionbetween, like, intellect and
imagination. And I love thatabout this age group that
they're, like, very curiousabout the world and really into
(24:57):
the idea of, like, authenticityand asking, interrogating
things, but also that they'restill willing to be silly and
imaginative. And I think thatthat's what's so good for me
about school visits. Because Ithink when I first got into
this, I remembered, like, themost serious version of myself
at, like, 11.
Yeah. But I forgot the versionof myself that was, like,
drawing dragons in a notebookand, like, you know Right. Or,
(25:20):
like, playing Animorph still onthe blacktop and still, like,
into Imagine and playing allthose types of things. And so I
think that being around 11 yearolds and 12 year olds and 10
year olds is good for me in thatway of being like, yeah. They're
really smart, and they wannathink deeply about things, but
they also, like, are fun.
And I wanna meet them there too.And I think those things can
(25:42):
exist together.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (25:44):
Yeah. Have you had any, like, experiences
maybe with some of your more anyof your books that you that
really stand out to you as,okay. This was, a moment that I
had with the kid that reallyjust has stayed with me.
Jasmine Warga (25:55):
I think what this has been happening a lot, which
is really amazing, is so when Italk about a Rover story, I
share that resilience, who's themain character. He's the Mars
rover. And kind of his centralarc in the book is that he,
like, has feelings and heworries that that makes him
different from other robots. AndI share because I say that I
always get asked many of mybooks are autobiographical and
(26:17):
none of them are. They're allmade up, but that resilience is
actually my mostautobiographical character.
It's most similar to me becauseI was a super sensitive kid who
I had really big emotions and Iwould get upset really easily.
I'd cry really easily, and Ifelt different from the rest of
my classmates. And I think mostall kids have had some
experience of feeling differentin some way. And I think the
(26:40):
way, like, especially a roverstory is a book that kids have
really embraced, like, I'll getso many cool drawings.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:45):
Oh, yeah.
Jasmine Warga (26:46):
The characters feel really real to them and the
way that it's, like, capturedtheir imagination has been
really cool
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:51):
to see. The theme from a rover story of
feeling different is universal.It's a message that connects
with a broad range of readers.But in another of her books,
Jasmine wanted to send a storyspecifically to one little girl,
her own younger self.
Jasmine Warga (27:09):
I mean, my book, Other Words For Home, is really
special to me and that I neversaw Arab or Muslim characters in
books growing up. And I know I'mdefinitely not the first person,
to say that or have that story.But then to see so many kids of
so many different backgroundsembrace Jude and relate to Jude
is just, like, really healingfor my 10 year old self. Because
(27:31):
while I was writing that book, Ihad this voice in my head that
was like, no one's gonna wannaread this book. You know what I
mean?
Because I've never had seen it.And so I think that that's,
like, what's incredible. A 12year old boy on my school visit
in Missouri who, like, lovesother words for home and just,
like, that's really incredible.And I think to me that's really
what's amazing about books istheir ability to not only
(27:51):
celebrate our differences, butremind us of that, like, common
bond of human experience.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:06):
So Other Words for Home became, like,
your catapult book, I call it,that authors have. But I think
it's really cool that afterthat, you went on to write
these, like, very differentstories from that. I mean,
you've got a robot, you've got amystery, you've got them all.
But still sometimes there areArab American characters in
there. And so I guess I'mwondering how has the way that
(28:27):
you think about weaving thatpart of your identity into your
work, how has that shifted overtime?
Especially now, you know, as aparent too?
Jasmine Warga (28:35):
I think when I was writing Other Words for
Home, I had a lot of things thatI wanted to ask and share and
say about being Arab, ArabAmerican, the diaspora, being
Muslim, and I feel like I reallyfilled that book with that.
Representation is reallyimportant to me, but I think
diversity can look differentthan what we think. Like, I
always explain, like, the way arover story is written and the
(28:58):
themes in that book. If I wasn'tthe granddaughter of Palestinian
refugees, the book would not bewritten that way. Yeah.
There's Arabic words in thatbook, that's the type of book
that when I was not that otherwords for home, wouldn't have
liked it. Like, I knew what itwas like to be an Arab and
Muslim kid. Yeah. What wouldhave been really exciting to me
is just that the scientists atNASA was Arab, and there were
(29:18):
Arabic words in the book. And soI think I'm interested in
expanding our ideas of, like,what a diverse book is.
Because I think sometimes, andit's really well meaning, people
want to support books where theyfeel like they're having a
different reading experience,which is great. I think those
books are super important.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (29:34):
They have like this on the cover where it
feels very like it's physicallyYeah. See something. It's like,
okay. I get yeah.
Jasmine Warga (29:39):
Yeah. And I think that that's important. It's a
good impulse, but I also thinkit's important to support books
from authors of differentbackgrounds even if what they're
writing doesn't necessarilymatch what you think it should
or could look like. I love thatwhen I get to show up to a
school visit, I've written arover story that I think it's
kind of surprising sometimes tokids that I'm the author. And I
(30:01):
think that's a powerful type ofdiversity too.
I mean, my book that's comingout next March 2026 is an animal
story. And to me, it's actuallymy most personal book ever in
sort of identity questions of,like, what does it mean to feel
all this pressure to, like,represent a community, and what
does it mean to feel like you'rethe only one? And I feel like
those are questions that I'minterested now in exploring
(30:25):
through other lenses. Like, Ithink folks that directly engage
with identity are superimportant, but I also think
diversity can look like lots ofthings. I'm excited about that,
and I think that that is kind ofwhere I see the conversation
going that we don't have to havesuch a, like, narrow
understanding of what a diversebook is.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:47):
Jasmine's books look different on the
surface, different genres,different kinds of characters.
So with this in mind, I askedher, does she see a through line
connecting them all?
Jasmine Warga (30:57):
My books are actually kind of thematically
similar. They're sort of allabout belonging. They're all
about finding home. They're allabout learning to embrace all
the different parts of yourself.And I think that switching genre
has helped me to switch the lensthrough which I explore that
theme.
Mhmm. But I think that that'sthe universal thread that
(31:19):
actually unites them. I think mybooks lots of times seem more
different than they actually arebecause the covers are so
different because they're sodifferent in genre. But I think
really, they're all aboutcharacters who are trying to
figure out where they belong andtrying to figure out how to
embrace, like, their truestself.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (31:42):
I want to close out the interview by
reading a line for your bookfrom Other Words From Home that
feels especially right for thismoment, when so many of us are
experiencing a sense ofhopelessness. And you wrote,
hoping I'm starting to thinkmight be the bravest thing a
(32:05):
person can do. And I wanna knowwhat does that mean to you now,
especially as a parent and justas someone writing stories for
young people that hold both hardthings and also hope.
Jasmine Warga (32:22):
I think that, like, we all need to have
radical hope, and I think it'sreally easy to fall back into
cynicism. Orienting yourselfinto a position of hope helps
you to show up for yourcommunity in the best way.
Right? I think about it sosimply that every day when I
drop my own kids off at school,I say to them that they know
that there's the dailychallenge, which is make
(32:44):
somebody else's day better. Andevery night at dinner, we all
share, like, if we completed thechallenge and how we completed
the challenge.
And I think that it can feel sohopeless when you think about
all the big systems. Right? ButI think that if all of us were
just a tiny bit kinder and moreengaged with our community every
(33:05):
day, the world would be a betterplace. And so orienting yourself
in that way. Believe me, I amreally hopeless days too, but
trying to keep my mindset sortof going back to what my dad
always tells me of it's such aprivilege to get to live and to
survive and to make the most ofmy time getting to do that and
(33:27):
proceed from a place of hope.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (33:34):
Throughout our conversation, Jasmine kept
returning to this idea ofbelonging, how stories can help
us understand who we are andalso allow us to reach beyond
ourselves. Her readingchallenge, read global, invites
adult readers to do just that,to step outside the familiar and
read more broadly beyond our ownborders.
Jasmine Warga (33:57):
Often read only American writers. Right? And so
I wanna challenge anyonelistening to this to try to
read, you know, five books thisyear that are by an author whose
nationality is not American. Ithink reading books in
translation is really cool. Ifyou read a book that was written
in another language, translatedinto English, thinking about
(34:19):
that reading experience.
So sort of read global because Ithink we're in this moment where
I would love us to recenter as,like, a human community, you
know, that I'm wanting the bestfor, like, our global human
community. And I think thatliterature can help us to sort
of feel connected beyond bordersand nationality. You can find
(34:40):
Jasmine's reading challenge andall past reading challenges at
the readingculturepod.com.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (34:50):
And this week's Beanstack featured
librarian is Cassie Owens Moore,a middle school librarian in
South Carolina at Seneca MiddleSchool. She shares how a group
of fired up sixth gradersconvinced her that Marvel and
manga deserve their own sectionsin her library and why building
a great library means workingfor your students.
Cassie Owens Moore (35:14):
I call it reading by example. I'm a
reader, And so I'm alwaystalking to students about books
that I've read, books that Iwant to read, what did you just
read. And I have a just a verysimple dry erase board at the
circulation desk that says whatI just finished reading, what
I'm currently reading, and whatI'm going to read next. And so
(35:35):
students are always saying, oh,you read that? Did you like it?
Can I see it? You know, thatkind of thing. And, you know,
just I'm constantly talkingabout reading. I will listen to
my students too. Earlier thisyear, I had a group of sixth
graders who came in like madthat the Marvel books were
(35:55):
wrapped in the graphic novels.
And they were like, Marvel needsits own section. I said, does
it? And so why do you thinkthat? Oh, because Marvel books
so I pulled them all out and Igave them their own section. And
then another group of students,again, sixth grade of them,
they're so demanding.
They wanted to know why weremanga in the graphic novels. And
(36:17):
I said, well, aren't they all inthe same? And you would have
thought that I just spokeblasphemy because they are not
the same. And they quickly toldme how they're not the same and
why I was wrong. And so I had toapologize and I created a manga
section and that has made adifference.
And so I listened to them andonce they realized, oh, like
(36:38):
she's actually gonna do what yousuggest. Well, yes. Yes. I will.
I tell them on the first day ofschool and then I remind them
throughout the school year.
This is our library. I'm thefacilitator, but I pretty much
work for you in this space. Andthey take that pretty seriously.
So they start to bring me booklists of things that I should
(37:00):
order. And for the most part, Iorder them.
I read them first. I wanna makesure that you know we're not
doing anything that could get usin trouble. But, no, they just
they'll they'll read a book fromthe public library and they're
like, do we have this book?There's a whole series. And and
I listen to them.
I mean, it's your library. Ifyou're not utilizing it, then
what am I doing? And so, yeah,that that's been a game changer.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (37:27):
This has been the reading culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Jasmine Warga.
Again, I'm your host, JordanLloyd Bookie, and currently I'm
reading amelia if only by BeckyAlbertalli and say yes by Kwame
Alexander be sure to read theblurbs at the beginning of that
book because you will find onefrom yours truly and it's my
(37:48):
first If you enjoyed today'sepisode, take one minute to give
us five stars on Apple orwherever you listen. Thank you
so much for doing that. Yourreviews help us get the show
recommended to others, so itreally matters. This episode was
produced by Mel Webb and lowerstreet media and script edited
by Josiah Lamberto Egan to learnmore about how you can help grow
(38:10):
your community's reading cultureplease check out all of our
resources at beanstack.com Andremember to sign up for our
newsletter at thereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter for specialoffers and bonus content.
Thanks for listening, and keepreading.
The immigrant straightaway that the first
generation works, like, so hardjust to have, like, stability
and to live, and then it's thesecond generation that really
gets to, like, dream.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:12):
As Hamilton and Lafayette say on Broadway,
immigrants, we get the job done.Yes. And the daughter of an
immigrant and this week's guestreminds us that if we are lucky
enough to have someone lay thatfoundation for us, then it's our
job to honor their gift byleaning fully into life.
Jasmine Warga (00:32):
We all need to have radical hope. Believe me, I
am a really hopeless days too,but it's such a privilege to get
to live and to survive. Our jobis to live,
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:43):
and I think that's a really amazing thing.
Jasmine Morga is a Newbery honorwinner and New York Times
bestselling author of OtherWords for Home, The Shape of
Thunder, A Rover Story, and manymore. Her work explores
identity, belonging, and howbeing different can be what
unites us. In this episode,Jasmine shares what it was like
(01:06):
growing up as a mixed kid in theMidwest, her light bulb moment
while teaching sixth grade, andhow Animorphs, surrealist art,
and a dash of Virginia Woolfshaped not only her voice as a
writer, but also her commitmentto living joyfully and spreading
joy to others. My name is JordanLloyd Bookie, and this is the
(01:28):
reading culture, a show where wespeak with diverse authors about
ways to build stronger cultureof reading in our communities.
We dive deep into their personalexperiences and inspirations.
Our show is made possible byBeanstack, the leading solution
for motivating people to readmore. Learn more at
beanstack.com, and make sure tocheck us out on Instagram at the
(01:50):
reading culture pod andsubscribe to our newsletter for
bonus content at thereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter alright On tothe show. Hey, listeners. Are
you looking for a fun, easy wayto track your reading and earn
cool rewards?
(02:12):
Meet Beanstack, the ultimatereading app used by a community
of over 15,000 schools,libraries, and organizations
nationwide. Are you an avidreader? Check with your local
library to see if they offerBeanstack for free. A parent?
Ask your child's teacher if theschool library already uses
(02:32):
Beanstack.
And if you are an educatorsearching for a fresh
alternative to acceleratedreader, Beanstack is the perfect
tool to cultivate a thrivingreading culture. Ready to turn
the page? Visit beanstack.com tolearn more. How are you doing,
(02:52):
Jasmine? We're you're inIllinois, mister Shoe's
neighbor, famously.
Jasmine Warga (02:57):
Oh, I love John. He is such a special person. I
feel like that's one of thegifts of the universe that we
are neighbors.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:03):
We'll start at the beginning. You're a
Midwest girl like me. You'refrom Cincinnati.
Jasmine Warga (03:08):
I am inordinately proud to be from Cincinnati. I
think it's a really specialMidwestern city that it's really
sits, you know, on thatintersection between the Midwest
and the South. But I grew up ina small town in the Cincinnati
area, which is where my motherhad grown up. My dad is a
Palestinian immigrant. And Ithink early on, the insularness
(03:31):
of the town was both comfortingand confusing to me because I
was asked really early on whereI was from because it was such a
small town.
And I presented differently thanmy classmates. And I it took me
a little bit to understand thatwas the question, was sort of
identifying my ethnic identity.But that was a little bit
puzzling when you're a kid and,you know, your best friend who
(03:53):
lives next door to you isn'tbeing asked that same type of
question. So I think early on,it was a place where I became
really curious about my identityand what it meant to be from
here, but my dad was from thisother place, and I had this
connection to this other place.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (04:07):
I feel like probably for you growing up,
people when you would say yourdad was a Palestinian refugee
and immigrant from Jordan,people probably had no idea, you
know, were, like, ignorant towhat that really meant, and that
must be so different for yourown kids and for you now to have
there be such, like, a very,very public conversation and
(04:30):
knowledge about Palestine nowtoday. You know?
Jasmine Warga (04:34):
Yeah. I mean, for sure. I mean, early on, I sort
of learned to self erasePalestine from when I would talk
about my identity just becausepeople didn't understand what
that meant. So I would say mydad's from Jordan. Mhmm.
And I also was coached reallyearly on for my dad to
acknowledge Jordan becauseJordan is the only country in
the Middle East that gavecitizenship to Palestinian
(04:55):
refugees. And because my fatherwas granted citizenship from
Jordan, he was able to get aneducation, which obviously
shaped the whole course of hislife and my family's life. And
so it is really complicated tobe from this one place, also be
from this other place. Like,I've never visited anywhere in
sort of the Palestinianterritories. I've only ever been
(05:18):
to Jordan, but all of my familythere is Palestinian.
And when we used to go in thesummer, they would quiz me and
say, what are you? And theywanted the answer to be
Palestinian, not Jordanian, andthat was really important to
them. And so I think all thoselayers of identity and trying to
figure out how they could alladd up to something that felt
like wholeness. I think for along time, I felt like I had all
these different parts of myself,and they were competing with one
(05:40):
another. And I think part ofwriting for me has been a
project of trying to put allthose pieces back together.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:47):
Were you always, like, the only one more
or less when you were youngerwho was, like, a brown kid in
your school, in your area?
Jasmine Warga (05:54):
A 100%. We were the only I was the only Muslim
kid in my class. Mhmm. So onlykid, as far as I know, who had a
parent who was have been born ina different country. And I think
for a long time, I just wantedto, like, pass.
I wanted to blend in. I wantedfor the teacher not to
(06:14):
immediately be like, where areyou from?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (06:16):
So interesting and also just so
interesting to be like a a mixedkid with like those dual
identities, which I thinknowadays is far more common and,
you know, but then was justreally you kinda had to pick,
you know, in a different way forkids then.
Jasmine Warga (06:30):
Yeah. Because in lots of ways, had a very
typical, like, white Midwesternchildhood experience of, like,
my core childhood memories arewatching the Cincinnati Bengals
on Sundays at my grandparents'house. You know? So I feel
whereas, like, a lot of my,like, Arab and Middle Eastern
friends now that I have anadulthood aren't mixed. And so
their view of their identity,while they, like, I think had
(06:53):
all of the similar, like,wanting to blend in type
feelings I had, It's a littlebit different because, like,
they were getting acohesiveness, like, feeling of,
like, well, this is my identity.
And I think I was always like, Idon't know. Like, I never feel
like I'm enough of either thing.Like, when we go in the summer
to The Middle East, I'mAmerican, and I don't speak
(07:14):
Arabic well. And Mhmm. But whenI was back in Cincinnati, I was
immediately recognized assomehow being different from my
classmates.
Right?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (07:23):
Right. Yeah. I'm a parent of mixed
kids, so I believe that in thelong run, it's like, it's so
great. Your your whole view ofthe world is different. You're
constantly, like, you are bydefinition an empathetic person
because you have to view theworld from, like, these multiple
lenses every single day.
But it's hard, especially then.I think it's easier today than
it was.
Jasmine Warga (07:43):
Yeah. No. It's again, I think there's a lot of
what I talk about at schoolvisits, but I think those things
that made you insecure and alittle bit confused as a kid are
the things as an adult you'rethe most proud of. And I feel
like I've really leaned into mymixedness, and I love it now.
And I love that it's, like,unexpected.
I feel like I'm way more Ohiothan a lot of people expect.
(08:05):
Yeah. And I'm also so proud ofmy era of background and feel
very connected to that, and Ithink those things can really
coexist. And like you said, Ithink we're seeing more and more
kids with that type ofbackground in America. And I
think that's really beautiful.
I think that's kind of whatAmerica should be in it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:21):
Like many authors on this show, Jasmine's
questions of identity markedmuch of her childhood. She
straddled many worlds and triedto make sense of her multi
ethnic background in a communitywhere that wasn't the norm.
Reading became a way to try ondifferent identities, to see
herself in new places, and tomake sense of the world around
her.
Jasmine Warga (08:42):
I think because I had such a flimsy sense of self,
I was actually a really, reallygreat reader and that I was so
easily able to try on thepersonality of every main
character that I read and Iloved being fully absorbed in
these worlds. And so I lovedAnimorphs. My favorite book from
when I was a kid was Ella andJanet, and I, like, lived in
(09:04):
that world. I wrote what wouldnow be called fan fiction, but
about Animorphs and Ella andJanet. And I remember The Giver
was a book that really, reallymade me think, right, about this
idea of, like, do you have tohave sadness in order to
sometimes feel happiness andbeing fascinated by that
concept.
I would read almost everything,and I was really lucky that I
(09:25):
had an amazing children'slibrarian at the local library
in Wyoming that was constantlygiving books. I remember she
saved friendle for me when itcame in, and I loved it. And
when I think back on books, havea really positive association
with my reading life from, like,fourth to seventh grade of I was
sort of never a better readerthan between those ages. And I
(09:45):
think something about yourbrain, like, you have that
growing awareness that you'reable to really engage with, the
philosophy meat of the book, butyou're also really able to,
like, believe that you're inthis other world or you're on
this adventure in a way thatsometimes I think becomes a
little bit harder the older weget to, like, fully transport in
that way.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:04):
Were your parents big readers too?
Jasmine Warga (10:06):
Both of my parents really big readers, and
my mom also read to me all thetime. Like, I was one of the
later kids in my grade to learnMhmm. To read, like,
independently on my own. But Ithink I never had a bad
association with reading becausemy mom was really patient, and I
think it was always, like, areally Mhmm. Joyful experience
because she was always readingto us.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:28):
Well, do you remember some of the books
that she read aloud to you?
Jasmine Warga (10:32):
Yeah. Of course. She read Girl of the Lumber Lost
to me and I remember loving thatbook. All of the Anne of King
Gables books. Oh, yeah.
We read, you know, of course,Matilda and Charlotte's Web.
Those are some of the ones Ireally distinctly remember.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:49):
What about, like, storytelling? What was the
role of storytelling in yourlife? I'm particularly
interested from your, I guess,dad's side of the family because
I can imagine especially, likeyou said, you're sort of from
three places really
Jasmine Warga (11:01):
Yes.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:01):
How that, like, storytelling element
probably is particularlyimportant there, but I'm just
interested in some of thatfabric of your early life.
Jasmine Warga (11:09):
It's pretty amazing to me that I'm pretty
sure my earliest childhoodmemory is of me sitting on my
grandma, my father's mother'slap, and she's telling me a
story. And I only met her twotimes in my whole life. She came
to visit us in Cincinnati, andshe was telling me a story about
mermaids that live in the DeadSea. And I remember this feeling
(11:30):
of, like, she's sharingsomething with me that's
important about our family. Andthen what I remember the most is
that at end the of the story,she asked me to tell her a story
about my home in Ohio, and Ithink that was her way of sort
of teaching me that storytellingis sharing.
Right? And it's the way that wecan communicate about things
that matter to us and thingsthat we love. And definitely,
(11:54):
like, dad told my brother and Iso many stories about his
childhood, though in a similarway, I think, that to lots of
people who have immigrantparents who have experienced
pretty big traumas. It's also mydad is reticent to share certain
things, and I've had to pullthem out of him as an adult who
understands more to be able toask more, like, questions. So,
(12:16):
like, I was told a lot of, like,silly stories as a kid and good
war and those are important.
But then I as I became an adult,I had more, like, draft
questions about childhood. And Ireally remember when I was about
a teenager and we were visitingJordan, and I was begging to see
the old apartment where theyused to live. It was in the,
(12:38):
like, old side of Amman on theEast Side of the city. And my
dad, he finally caved and droveus there, but he wouldn't get
out of the car. He wouldn't goin.
And I remember thinking, like,oh my god. This is so weird. But
the apartment itself, you know,was so small. It was, like,
smaller than my bedroom backhome, which also was something
(13:00):
I'd understood, but it's adifferent thing to, like, see it
and see what it looked like. Butgetting him to actually, like,
really talk about real concretedetails of his childhood is much
harder than some of these, like,family stories or Arabic
proverbs or things that like,those were the types of stories
Mhmm.
That are fun, right, that hewould tell my brother and I like
(13:21):
those kinda nighttime bedtimestories. But recently as an
adult, I become reallyinterested in wanting to know,
like, real narrative storiesfrom his child. But he's really
firm about loving the country ofJordan and feeling like the
country of Jordan gave him andhis family this new life. It's
funny. He's much, like, calmerthan me when I'm, like, spitting
(13:43):
out or feeling upset.
Like, he really has this feelingof being, like, you know, our
job is to live, which issomething my grandma used to say
to him all the time. And I thinkthat's a really amazing thing.
And then also, I think mybrother and I can, like, feel
differently because there's morelike, we have more privilege and
space to feel differently that,like, we are surviving. Like, we
(14:06):
can ask for more of that tosurvive. And I think that that
is obviously not unique to myfamily.
I think in lots of ways, that'sthe Mhmm. Kind of the immigrant
story that the first generationworks, like, so hard just to
have, like, stability and tolive, and then it's the second
generation that really gets to,like, dream.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:21):
Yeah. And do you feel like our job is to
live, which I love that? And youfeel like you're living that out
in a different way than he sortof
Jasmine Warga (14:29):
Yeah. Yeah. I definitely do. But I think that
that's good for me to rememberthat he's like, it's good to,
like, be engaged and obviouslyremember. He's like, but you
can't make yourself sick.
Like, you need to live. Like,that is your job.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:44):
Jasmine imagined becoming a writer as
soon as she learned it was areal job back in the first
grade. But she didn't grow upknowing any authors and didn't
see anyone she could pictureherself becoming. Just as she
said, her father's hard workgave her the privilege of higher
education and the chance to takeher time figuring out what
exactly she dreamed of becoming.She thought of writing, but that
(15:09):
dream felt fragile. So for along time, she kept it tucked
away.
Jasmine Warga (15:15):
In college, I studied history and art history,
and I don't know why I thoughtthat that was gonna be, like,
more practical than I washonestly, the the truth is that
I was really scared to saycreative writing because Mhmm. I
had never shared my work withanyone, and I was really afraid
of getting feedback. And it tookme a long time to understand
that that's how you get better.Right? But I think I was being
(15:37):
really afraid of somebodytelling me, like, you're not
good at this.
And, like, my dream felt reallyfragile and something I was,
like, holding on to. But I thinkI studied stories in a different
way. Like, history is narrativeand especially, like, art
history is so visual. But Ialways said I wanted to be a
writer, but I wasn't reallyactively trying to create things
(15:57):
in college. Like, it neveroccurred to me to write for kids
until after I graduated fromcollege.
I was a sixth grade teacher, andthat's when I had this, like,
light bulb moment of being,like, those are the books I
loved the best. Middle schoolwas really hard for me. Like, I
have so much that I wanna say inthis space.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (16:15):
I wonder since you're an art history
major if there was like anartist or particular piece of
art or anything that was reallyformative for you or something
that sort of shifted yourperspective at that time.
Jasmine Warga (16:27):
I love surrealist art. Like, I really like, I
remember being fascinated by,like, Salvador Dali's paintings
and, like, how visual they areand how many questions you can
have about them. But I also lovethe story of Camille Claudel,
was, like, the sculptor whoworked with Rodin. And she
famously did, like, all of thehands on the Rodin sculptures,
which are the harder part. Butthen was kind of, like, thrown
(16:49):
away into this, like, mentalasylum.
In part, she was, like, she washaving some struggles, but also
she'd been having this, like,affair with Rodin, and he didn't
want it just felt, like, sotorrid and terrible, but also,
like, dramatic, and it just,like, appealed to my 19, 20 year
old interest.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:09):
Yes. Torrid. That's so true. I've
been to the Rodin Museum acouple of times, but I did not
know that story about CamilleClaudel. But it reminds me a bit
of this line from your book thatI highlighted.
It's a strange thing happened inCherry Hall that reads, all
great art is a mystery waitingto be solved. And, well, I guess
(17:32):
her work on Rodin's hands wasalso its own kind of mystery as
you put it too.
Jasmine Warga (17:37):
For sure. That's what I I love about art and
that's what I like like to dowith kids at school visits is
like show one of theseinteresting paintings and have
them ask questions about thatand show them that's what
storytelling is. It's justasking questions. It's not
knowing anything. It's payingattention and asking questions
and saying, hey.
Have you ever wondered aboutthis too? Or what if? And I
(17:59):
think that that makes it feel,like, much more accessible and
fun, this idea of, like, youhave to know something and then
write that down to share. And Ialways explain it's never, like,
I know something. It's more thatI'm curious, and I wanna share
my curiosity with you.
We throw our parties. We abandonour families to live alone in
(18:21):
Canada. We struggle to writebooks that do not change the
world despite our gifts and ourunstinting efforts, our most
extravagant hopes. We live ourlives, do whatever we do, and
then we sleep. It's as simpleand ordinary as that.
A few jump out windows or drownthemselves or take pills. More
die by accident, and most of usare slowly devoured by some
(18:44):
disease or, if we're veryfortunate, by time itself.
There's just this forconsolation, an hour here or
there when our lives seemagainst all odds and
expectations to burst open andgive us everything we've ever
imagined. Though everyone butchildren, and perhaps even they,
know these hours will inevitablybe followed by others, far
(19:09):
darker and more difficult,Still, we cherish the city, the
morning. We hope, more thananything, for more.
I remember one morning gettingup at dawn. There was such a
sense of possibility. You knowthat feeling. And I remember
thinking to myself, so this isthe beginning of happiness. This
(19:31):
is where it starts.
And of course, there will alwaysbe more. It never occurred to me
it wasn't the beginning. It washappiness. It was the moment
right then.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (19:42):
Jasmine read from The Hours by Michael
Cunningham, a novel that weavestogether the lives of three
women across different timeperiods, all connected by
Virginia Woolf's missusDalloway. Jasmine first read The
Hours as a high school seniorand at the time, she was
overwhelmed by dense readingassignments and had mostly lost
touch with the joy of readingfor pleasure. But The Hours
(20:05):
cracked something open. It wasdark, yes, but also accessible
and emotionally alive in a waythat felt totally new.
Jasmine Warga (20:19):
I think that that was the time of my life where I
was really feeling like, oh, mychildhood has come to an end.
And so I think I was reallyinterested in the idea of the
passage of time and, like, whatdoes that mean? But now it's so
funny. This, like, resonateswith me so differently at the
moment in my life that I'm atright now being, like, okay.
(20:40):
This one perfect afternoon withmy family, I'm gonna hold on to
it.
That's a pocket of joy. Love itright then and not worry so much
about what comes after. But Ithink that what I love about
books is how you can revisitthem. And so it like, that this
struck me at 18, and it stillstrikes me now, but maybe in a
little bit of a different way.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:59):
Yeah. I like hear echoes of what your
dad and your grandma say in thattoo. You know? And then just,
like, also thinking abouthappiness is not like a constant
state. Contentment can be.
Jasmine Warga (21:11):
Yeah.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:12):
But then this idea of just, we all we
want more time, and only thosereally wise kids really are the
ones who know that you don'thave it endlessly. You know?
Jasmine Warga (21:19):
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's such a blurry space,
right, where you go from being akid to an adult. And in some
ways, you never feel older thanbut you're such a baby. I don't
know.
So the book, like, really it'sstill really strange. And that
passage almost makes me cryevery time of this idea of I've
had so many of those moments ofyou're just so happy and at
(21:41):
peace. And I think, you know,I've gotten better at, like,
appreciating them for what theyare and not reaching for the
next thing, right, or thinkingabout sustaining it, but
understanding, like, the beautyis in the fleetingness of it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:56):
Perfectly said. Well, thank you for that.
I think that is, like,interesting to have that be sort
of, like, the you know, for thatto be, like, the book that kinda
catapulted you back into soundslike just reading for pleasure.
Jasmine Warga (22:09):
It was a really, like, kind of faux intellectual
18, 19 year old of,
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:14):
like Mhmm.
Jasmine Warga (22:15):
Loving that it was, like, weaving what already
had the stamp of being, like,approved literature. Because I
think that was also a tension Ifelt at 18 because I understood
in kind of the hallowed halls ofacademia that the serious
academics were not interested increating. Mhmm. And so I wonder
too if that's why I was keepingthat impulse desire a little bit
(22:38):
touched close to, like, mychest. Because there was
something I had this feeling of,like, wanting to be taken, like,
very seriously, which is veryfunny now given the type of
books I wanna write and how Ithink about it, but that was
something I don't know.
And, again, I don't know ifthat's, like, craving that
approval from, like, aninstitutional type approval of
that somehow, in some kind ofunconscious way, stems back to
(23:01):
all of those other identityquestions I had of knowing,
like, okay. Well, this isapproved. If I know about this,
you fit it. You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (23:08):
Yeah. Right.
Jasmine Warga (23:09):
And so this book, like, made sense to be kind of a
gateway book because I think mymom knew that I'd be willing to
read that because of thatVirginia Woolf hook.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (23:18):
Tapping back into reading helped Jasmine
recover something she'd almostset aside, her creative voice.
But it didn't immediately leadher to writing. Instead, after
college, she joined Teach ForAmerica and wound up in a middle
school science classroom inTexas.
Jasmine Warga (23:35):
So it had been tagged, particularly because of
our low standardized testscores, particularly in reading.
And it made me really sad that,like, none of my students
thought of themselves as readersby and large. And I've sort of
had memories of being like, thatwas my favorite part of that
age. And so I decided that forthe last ten minutes of every
class, I would read aloud tothem. And from watching them
(23:58):
fall in love with the books Iwas reading aloud and, like,
going to the bookstore andselecting books for kids that
had been published since I'vebeen a kid, particularly, I
remember, like, reading to themWhen You Reach Me by Rebecca
Stead and being like, this isthe most amazing book in the
whole world.
I felt just, like, so inspiredit. And I can only describe it
(24:19):
as a light bulb moment of beinglike, oh, wow. This is, like,
what I wanna do. I wanna be apart of this world. I wanna
write books that hopefully makekids wanna be readers, but more
importantly, feel less alone.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:32):
And do you do a lot of, like, school visits
for all of your books?
Jasmine Warga (24:36):
Yeah. Yeah. I do. I do. Which is really cool to
go, like, across the country.
I see all different kinds ofschools, but then also there's,
like, this universal thing of,like, 11 year olds everywhere.
This, like, intersectionbetween, like, intellect and
imagination. And I love thatabout this age group that
they're, like, very curiousabout the world and really into
(24:57):
the idea of, like, authenticityand asking, interrogating
things, but also that they'restill willing to be silly and
imaginative. And I think thatthat's what's so good for me
about school visits. Because Ithink when I first got into
this, I remembered, like, themost serious version of myself
at, like, 11.
Yeah. But I forgot the versionof myself that was, like,
drawing dragons in a notebookand, like, you know Right. Or,
(25:20):
like, playing Animorph still onthe blacktop and still, like,
into Imagine and playing allthose types of things. And so I
think that being around 11 yearolds and 12 year olds and 10
year olds is good for me in thatway of being like, yeah. They're
really smart, and they wannathink deeply about things, but
they also, like, are fun.
And I wanna meet them there too.And I think those things can
(25:42):
exist together.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (25:44):
Yeah. Have you had any, like, experiences
maybe with some of your more anyof your books that you that
really stand out to you as,okay. This was, a moment that I
had with the kid that reallyjust has stayed with me.
Jasmine Warga (25:55):
I think what this has been happening a lot, which
is really amazing, is so when Italk about a Rover story, I
share that resilience, who's themain character. He's the Mars
rover. And kind of his centralarc in the book is that he,
like, has feelings and heworries that that makes him
different from other robots. AndI share because I say that I
always get asked many of mybooks are autobiographical and
(26:17):
none of them are. They're allmade up, but that resilience is
actually my mostautobiographical character.
It's most similar to me becauseI was a super sensitive kid who
I had really big emotions and Iwould get upset really easily.
I'd cry really easily, and Ifelt different from the rest of
my classmates. And I think mostall kids have had some
experience of feeling differentin some way. And I think the
(26:40):
way, like, especially a roverstory is a book that kids have
really embraced, like, I'll getso many cool drawings.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:45):
Oh, yeah.
Jasmine Warga (26:46):
The characters feel really real to them and the
way that it's, like, capturedtheir imagination has been
really cool
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:51):
to see. The theme from a rover story of
feeling different is universal.It's a message that connects
with a broad range of readers.But in another of her books,
Jasmine wanted to send a storyspecifically to one little girl,
her own younger self.
Jasmine Warga (27:09):
I mean, my book, Other Words For Home, is really
special to me and that I neversaw Arab or Muslim characters in
books growing up. And I know I'mdefinitely not the first person,
to say that or have that story.But then to see so many kids of
so many different backgroundsembrace Jude and relate to Jude
is just, like, really healingfor my 10 year old self. Because
(27:31):
while I was writing that book, Ihad this voice in my head that
was like, no one's gonna wannaread this book. You know what I
mean?
Because I've never had seen it.And so I think that that's,
like, what's incredible. A 12year old boy on my school visit
in Missouri who, like, lovesother words for home and just,
like, that's really incredible.And I think to me that's really
what's amazing about books istheir ability to not only
(27:51):
celebrate our differences, butremind us of that, like, common
bond of human experience.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:06):
So Other Words for Home became, like,
your catapult book, I call it,that authors have. But I think
it's really cool that afterthat, you went on to write
these, like, very differentstories from that. I mean,
you've got a robot, you've got amystery, you've got them all.
But still sometimes there areArab American characters in
there. And so I guess I'mwondering how has the way that
(28:27):
you think about weaving thatpart of your identity into your
work, how has that shifted overtime?
Especially now, you know, as aparent too?
Jasmine Warga (28:35):
I think when I was writing Other Words for
Home, I had a lot of things thatI wanted to ask and share and
say about being Arab, ArabAmerican, the diaspora, being
Muslim, and I feel like I reallyfilled that book with that.
Representation is reallyimportant to me, but I think
diversity can look differentthan what we think. Like, I
always explain, like, the way arover story is written and the
(28:58):
themes in that book. If I wasn'tthe granddaughter of Palestinian
refugees, the book would not bewritten that way. Yeah.
There's Arabic words in thatbook, that's the type of book
that when I was not that otherwords for home, wouldn't have
liked it. Like, I knew what itwas like to be an Arab and
Muslim kid. Yeah. What wouldhave been really exciting to me
is just that the scientists atNASA was Arab, and there were
(29:18):
Arabic words in the book. And soI think I'm interested in
expanding our ideas of, like,what a diverse book is.
Because I think sometimes, andit's really well meaning, people
want to support books where theyfeel like they're having a
different reading experience,which is great. I think those
books are super important.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (29:34):
They have like this on the cover where it
feels very like it's physicallyYeah. See something. It's like,
okay. I get yeah.
Jasmine Warga (29:39):
Yeah. And I think that that's important. It's a
good impulse, but I also thinkit's important to support books
from authors of differentbackgrounds even if what they're
writing doesn't necessarilymatch what you think it should
or could look like. I love thatwhen I get to show up to a
school visit, I've written arover story that I think it's
kind of surprising sometimes tokids that I'm the author. And I
(30:01):
think that's a powerful type ofdiversity too.
I mean, my book that's comingout next March 2026 is an animal
story. And to me, it's actuallymy most personal book ever in
sort of identity questions of,like, what does it mean to feel
all this pressure to, like,represent a community, and what
does it mean to feel like you'rethe only one? And I feel like
those are questions that I'minterested now in exploring
(30:25):
through other lenses. Like, Ithink folks that directly engage
with identity are superimportant, but I also think
diversity can look like lots ofthings. I'm excited about that,
and I think that that is kind ofwhere I see the conversation
going that we don't have to havesuch a, like, narrow
understanding of what a diversebook is.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:47):
Jasmine's books look different on the
surface, different genres,different kinds of characters.
So with this in mind, I askedher, does she see a through line
connecting them all?
Jasmine Warga (30:57):
My books are actually kind of thematically
similar. They're sort of allabout belonging. They're all
about finding home. They're allabout learning to embrace all
the different parts of yourself.And I think that switching genre
has helped me to switch the lensthrough which I explore that
theme.
Mhmm. But I think that that'sthe universal thread that
(31:19):
actually unites them. I think mybooks lots of times seem more
different than they actually arebecause the covers are so
different because they're sodifferent in genre. But I think
really, they're all aboutcharacters who are trying to
figure out where they belong andtrying to figure out how to
embrace, like, their truestself.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (31:42):
I want to close out the interview by
reading a line for your bookfrom Other Words From Home that
feels especially right for thismoment, when so many of us are
experiencing a sense ofhopelessness. And you wrote,
hoping I'm starting to thinkmight be the bravest thing a
(32:05):
person can do. And I wanna knowwhat does that mean to you now,
especially as a parent and justas someone writing stories for
young people that hold both hardthings and also hope.
Jasmine Warga (32:22):
I think that, like, we all need to have
radical hope, and I think it'sreally easy to fall back into
cynicism. Orienting yourselfinto a position of hope helps
you to show up for yourcommunity in the best way.
Right? I think about it sosimply that every day when I
drop my own kids off at school,I say to them that they know
that there's the dailychallenge, which is make
(32:44):
somebody else's day better. Andevery night at dinner, we all
share, like, if we completed thechallenge and how we completed
the challenge.
And I think that it can feel sohopeless when you think about
all the big systems. Right? ButI think that if all of us were
just a tiny bit kinder and moreengaged with our community every
(33:05):
day, the world would be a betterplace. And so orienting yourself
in that way. Believe me, I amreally hopeless days too, but
trying to keep my mindset sortof going back to what my dad
always tells me of it's such aprivilege to get to live and to
survive and to make the most ofmy time getting to do that and
(33:27):
proceed from a place of hope.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (33:34):
Throughout our conversation, Jasmine kept
returning to this idea ofbelonging, how stories can help
us understand who we are andalso allow us to reach beyond
ourselves. Her readingchallenge, read global, invites
adult readers to do just that,to step outside the familiar and
read more broadly beyond our ownborders.
Jasmine Warga (33:57):
Often read only American writers. Right? And so
I wanna challenge anyonelistening to this to try to
read, you know, five books thisyear that are by an author whose
nationality is not American. Ithink reading books in
translation is really cool. Ifyou read a book that was written
in another language, translatedinto English, thinking about
(34:19):
that reading experience.
So sort of read global because Ithink we're in this moment where
I would love us to recenter as,like, a human community, you
know, that I'm wanting the bestfor, like, our global human
community. And I think thatliterature can help us to sort
of feel connected beyond bordersand nationality. You can find
(34:40):
Jasmine's reading challenge andall past reading challenges at
the readingculturepod.com.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (34:50):
And this week's Beanstack featured
librarian is Cassie Owens Moore,a middle school librarian in
South Carolina at Seneca MiddleSchool. She shares how a group
of fired up sixth gradersconvinced her that Marvel and
manga deserve their own sectionsin her library and why building
a great library means workingfor your students.
Cassie Owens Moore (35:14):
I call it reading by example. I'm a
reader, And so I'm alwaystalking to students about books
that I've read, books that Iwant to read, what did you just
read. And I have a just a verysimple dry erase board at the
circulation desk that says whatI just finished reading, what
I'm currently reading, and whatI'm going to read next. And so
(35:35):
students are always saying, oh,you read that? Did you like it?
Can I see it? You know, thatkind of thing. And, you know,
just I'm constantly talkingabout reading. I will listen to
my students too. Earlier thisyear, I had a group of sixth
graders who came in like madthat the Marvel books were
(35:55):
wrapped in the graphic novels.
And they were like, Marvel needsits own section. I said, does
it? And so why do you thinkthat? Oh, because Marvel books
so I pulled them all out and Igave them their own section. And
then another group of students,again, sixth grade of them,
they're so demanding.
They wanted to know why weremanga in the graphic novels. And
(36:17):
I said, well, aren't they all inthe same? And you would have
thought that I just spokeblasphemy because they are not
the same. And they quickly toldme how they're not the same and
why I was wrong. And so I had toapologize and I created a manga
section and that has made adifference.
And so I listened to them andonce they realized, oh, like
(36:38):
she's actually gonna do what yousuggest. Well, yes. Yes. I will.
I tell them on the first day ofschool and then I remind them
throughout the school year.
This is our library. I'm thefacilitator, but I pretty much
work for you in this space. Andthey take that pretty seriously.
So they start to bring me booklists of things that I should
(37:00):
order. And for the most part, Iorder them.
I read them first. I wanna makesure that you know we're not
doing anything that could get usin trouble. But, no, they just
they'll they'll read a book fromthe public library and they're
like, do we have this book?There's a whole series. And and
I listen to them.
I mean, it's your library. Ifyou're not utilizing it, then
what am I doing? And so, yeah,that that's been a game changer.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (37:27):
This has been the reading culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Jasmine Warga.
Again, I'm your host, JordanLloyd Bookie, and currently I'm
reading amelia if only by BeckyAlbertalli and say yes by Kwame
Alexander be sure to read theblurbs at the beginning of that
book because you will find onefrom yours truly and it's my
(37:48):
first If you enjoyed today'sepisode, take one minute to give
us five stars on Apple orwherever you listen. Thank you
so much for doing that. Yourreviews help us get the show
recommended to others, so itreally matters. This episode was
produced by Mel Webb and lowerstreet media and script edited
by Josiah Lamberto Egan to learnmore about how you can help grow
(38:10):
your community's reading cultureplease check out all of our
resources at beanstack.com Andremember to sign up for our
newsletter at thereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter for specialoffers and bonus content.
Thanks for listening, and keepreading.
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