Scratching the Surface: Vashti Harrison on Going Past Skin Deep

Episode Transcript
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Vashti Harrison (00:04):
The main inciting incident in Big is
something that happened to me.I've talked many times about how
the character doesn't have aname. She goes through a lot of
the things that I went through,but she's not mean.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:16):
It's true that the little girl in Vashti
Harrison's Caldecott winningwork, Big, isn't her. And it's
also true that the characterlooks nothing like I did as a
young girl. And yet, when I readthe book, even as a grown woman,
I found a deep connection withher, a moment of recognition to
remind me, like any good bookdoes, that we are not alone.

Every time I read big out of school,
obviously, I'm always there tospeak directly to kids and to
talk to kids about the story,and I hope that they're all
connecting with it. But at everysingle reading, there's always
an adult adult woman that comesto me and says, this was my
story. I needed this when I wasyoung, and I just I wish we all

(01:02):
knew that we were all goingthrough the same things.

Vashti's stories show us that while our
experiences may shape us, theydon't have to define us.
Instead, they can inspire us tocreate something powerful,
something that brings ustogether and brings healing and
hope to the world and toourselves. Vashti Harrison is a
New York Times bestsellingauthor, illustrator, and

(01:25):
filmmaker celebrated for herbooks for children, including
Big, which earned the 2024Caldecott Medal and Coretta
Scott King Award. She also isthe creator of the books Little
Leaders, Little Dreamers, andLittle Legends, as well as the
illustrator of Lupita Nyong'oSolway and many other acclaimed

(01:46):
works. In this episode, Vashtireflects on the role of
storytelling in shaping her lifeand work from her childhood in
only lonely Virginia, where sheimmersed herself in books and
films and first thought ofherself as a drawer, to
navigating the complexities ofbeauty standards and body image.
And she shares about the drawingcontest she entered on a whim

(02:09):
that led to a book deal in 24hours. My name is Jordan Lloyd
Bookey, and this is The ReadingCulture, a show where we speak
with diverse authors about waysto build a stronger culture of
reading in our communities. Wedive deep into their personal
experiences and inspirations.Our show is made possible by
Beanstack, the leading solutionfor motivating students to read

(02:30):
more. Learn more atbeanstack.com, and make sure to
check us out on Instagram at thereading culture pod and
subscribe to our newsletter forbonus content at the reading
culture pod dot com forwardslash newsletter.
Hey, listeners. Are you lookingfor a fun, easy way to track

(02:51):
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(03:34):
So you grew up Eastern Shore ofVirginia. Right?

That's right.

Maybe we could talk about what what was
the feeling of your home, yourkinda like day to day life, if
you're painting that picture forus?

I think of my home life in Virginia as really
quiet. I think probably becausemy sister was much older, I
spent a lot of time by myselfmaking things, making art, and I
loved the idea of sort ofuncovering secrets. So my dad
would call it rambling. I wouldspend a lot of time rambling,
like, going through closets andgoing through piles of junk to

(04:11):
try to find something special,to treat it like a treasure, to
make something out of it. But atthe same time, my parents were
New Yorkers.
They moved to Virginia. Mysister was born in New York. I
was the only person that wasborn there. So we spent a lot of
time traveling and going toother places, specifically in
New York City. So I think froman early age, I grew up knowing

(04:33):
that there is a much biggerworld outside of this.
And that probably led to thissort of understanding or belief
system, I think, within myfamily that if you or even just
of the time period that if youwant to succeed, you have to get
good grades in school and go tocollege and then move out of

(04:54):
this small town. You have to getout of here to do big things.
But having said all of that, Ialways cherish my time in
Virginia. My town is calledOnly, and we joke it's called
it's lonely only. It's very,very quiet.
We got a a stoplight after Iwent to college. Almost that

(05:15):
small. But I always feel verycreative when I go there. I
still go there every year, and Ithink it's just maybe the quiet
of it, the distance fromeverything else. It sort of
feels like time stops when I gothere, and I don't have to worry
about other things going on.
I don't have to worry aboutFOMO. I can just focus on what I
wanna focus on, and so I stillfeel very creative there. But I

(05:38):
think early on, I knew thatthere were bigger places outside
of Only, which definitelycontributed to the way that I
approached art and school andsuccess Mhmm. As a teenager. I
was home a lot, and I didn'thave a big group of friends.
And I think I've always beenthat way, but I think it's
probably because I spend a lotof time sort of, I don't know,

(05:58):
being very internal and thinkingabout things and wanting to just
focus on things that feel quiet.And I think no one else in my
family was very creative, so Idon't know if they knew how to
foster that or how to evenunderstand that. But I don't
know how I would have turned outif I grew up in a big city

Right.

Is what I'm saying. It's very interesting. I
don't know if this is a resultof me living in a small town, or
rather I benefited from livingin a small town Oh, right.
Because of my own desires to tobe quiet.

It's funny because, like, I do think of
your work, especially when it'slike all you, when something is
all your work, I do think of itas quiet, you know, like as soft
even and, I don't know, like,you wanna hold it, you know?

I think I'm definitely learning to love that
about my artwork. Someonedescribed it to me as tender,
and I was like, yeah.

I think It is tender. Yes.

I love that, and I want to be making tender
work that can be quiet. My agentsaid that I make lap books, the
kind of books that you curl upwith a kid and you read them
together.

The word tender, just when she said it,
it really resonated with mebecause I did recently curl up
and read big with my daughter.She's 12 now, and I really wish
that we'd had that book when shewas little. But we read it
together anyways, and when wedid, we both teared up and got a
little emotional. For those ofyou who haven't read it, the

(07:28):
book follows the story of asweet young girl navigating
societal expectations and thepressures of being labeled too
big in this world. So I askedVashti what role looks played in
her life growing up.

I am biracial. My dad is of black descent, and
my mom is of Indian descent.Physiologically, my mom is a
much more petite person.Everyone in her family is very
petite. She's also verybeautiful, and she modeled for a
long time when she was young.
And we grew up with beautifulphotos of her looking

Like a model?

Like a model, but, like, fancy wearing
beautiful outfits and highheels. And and I think that sort
of constant reminder that, like,there's this sort of value in
presenting yourself, this valueand looking good was constantly
reinforced in my house. And Ilook back at these photos of

(08:29):
myself as a kid, and I can seewhen I was very young, she was
sort of dressing me up as thislittle doll, and we would be in,
like, sort of matching fancylittle church outfits. And I can
kind of just see it sort ofstopping as I'm getting older,
and my body is changing andgetting bigger. And I just
remember struggling and fightingwith my mom a lot about clothes,

(08:51):
about her wanting to me to wearcertain things and me not
wanting to wear certain things.
I think that will be the, like,maybe the biggest lure in my
family is that I struggled with,like, wanting to wear particular
outfits. It was like a famousstory of me being a kid going
to, like, my sister's trackmeet, and I didn't like the

(09:13):
dress I was wearing. And Iinsisted I needed to go back to
my dad's van. I need to go backto the van to change. It was one
of those big, like, ninetiesvans, so Yeah.
We have, like, a TV and stuffinside of it. Yeah. And,
apparently, multiple outfits. Ineeded to go change, and I
insisted on it. And he took hefinally took me, and he missed

(09:34):
my sister's race.

Oh, wow. Wait. Why did you need to
change, though?

I knew that the dress was sort of like a comfort
dress. It was something that Ifelt more comfortable in, but I
don't remember exactly what washappening with what I was
currently wearing. But I knowthat I have comfort outfits now.
I know that my brain still worksthat way. Like, I know that I
feel comfortable in this, and Idon't feel as insecure in this.
And I absolutely know that thosewere feelings I was building as

(10:00):
a young person. I was learningas a young person that my body
was being judged in particularoutfits, and I needed to feel
safer in certain ones or I couldfeel safer in certain ones. So
these parts of, I think, myfamily dynamics all sort of fed
into a trauma that I've beenharboring for a really long time
about feeling like there wassomething wrong with my body,

(10:22):
and specifically coming from mymom who probably just didn't
even understand that, you know,there's not one way my body
could have looked like hers. Iam almost a full 9 inches taller
than her now. You know?

Wow. Okay. Yeah.

Of course, I couldn't fit into whatever mold
she had expected for me.

Yeah.

And and my sister is much more petite than
I am as well.

I was gonna ask about your sister right
here.

Not as petite as my mom, but definitely, I
feel like, physiologically, Ilook more like my father's side
of the family than my mom's. Andso those were all things just
minor things that allcontributed to this extreme self
consciousness that I had. And sothe main inciting incident in

(11:09):
Big is something that happenedto me. I've talked many times
about how the character doesn'thave a name. She goes through a
lot of the things that I wentthrough, but she's not me.
But that one experience didhappen, and many of the sort of
functions of the other people inthe book are sort of
representations of my familymembers. So the inciting

(11:31):
incident is that the charactergets stuck in a swing on the
playground, a baby swing. Andshe and her friends are just
messing around doing what kidsdo, playing around on the
playground, and and she getsstuck in a baby swing, and that
absolutely happened to me. Ithappened to me on a field trip,
and my mom was a chaperone. Sothe person that pulled me out of
the swing was my mom, and theperson who yelled at me and

(11:54):
judged me was my mom.
So those things are all sort of,I think, just unresolved for a
really long time. Still tryingto heal from it.

I'm very sorry that happened to you on
the playground. You know, it'sjust man, look what you got to
make for people now. You know?Yeah.

I mean Mhmm. Every time I read big out of
school, obviously, I'm alwaysthere to speak directly to kids
and to talk to kids about thestory, and I hope that they're
all connecting with it. But atevery single reading, there's
always an adult woman that comesto me and says, this was my
story. Mhmm. I needed this Yeah.
When I was young. And I just Iwish we all knew that we were

(12:34):
all going through the samethings.

Was writing big for you, like, as cathartic
an experience as one mightimagine it would have been if
that was your own mom, like, tocreate those pages and to

It was. It was the hardest thing ever made
because I think there was somuch unpacked, unaddressed
trauma that I was sort of tryingto put into this book on top of
trying to make something thatstill functioned as a children's
picture book that was successfulas a storytelling device. And I

(13:11):
think it didn't help that I Istarted it during the pandemic,
and I spent so much time alone,sort of alone with these
thoughts and really, you know,it's very strange to kind of
pick at an open wound for thesake of commodifying it. It's
very strange to put that into aproduct that's going to be sold.

(13:32):
So all of it felt very strange,and I think it really helped to
read many of these other textsto understand why I feel the way
I do and what I want people toget out of this book.
But it just took a long time,which it seems like a really
simple book. There are very fewwords, but it just really
agonized over every singlechoice. And I can now say it was

(13:55):
cathartic, but in the process ofit, it was really a difficult
thing to do.

You know, I've heard people say that,
especially Black women or justwriters of color in general, are
like encouraged to write abouttrauma, you know, and that
that's like, write about that.Don't write about joy. And I
think what is so special aboutthe book is you, you worked
through, and this child doesexperience that. But the book
is, like you said, very tenderand very, it holds you in a way

(14:24):
so that even if it is it is thatit is a traumatic experience
this little girl has, but it'sit's so uplifting in its finish.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I think part of that
is my sort of, I don't know,understanding of picture book as
a medium. I think I could havetold a much more complicated and
difficult story if it was amiddle grade book or You book or
an adult novel or book in verseor a film, but this is the

(14:55):
version that I wanted to leavekids with, which is an
aspirational story.

Yeah.

I think this girl finds self love at the end,
which I think I'm stillstruggling with. I'm still
trying to figure out for myself.So I think the goal is to, at
least for me, is to makesomething that, I don't know,
offers kids more than I have ormore than I I received, I think,

(15:20):
to hopefully set them up to justgo through life a little bit
easier than, I don't know, usfrom the nineties who struggled
with so much. Yeah. Sometimes,since I've been in the garden,
I've looked up through the treesat the sky, and I've had a
strange feeling of being happy,as if something were pushing and

(15:42):
drawing in my chest and makingme breathe fast.
Magic is always pushing anddrawing and making things out of
nothing. Everything is made outof magic, leaves and trees,
flowers and birds, badgers andfoxes and squirrels and people,
so it must be all around us, inthis garden, in all the

places. That passage comes from The
Secret Garden by Frances HodgsonBurnett, first published in
1911. It speaks to the quietmagic in the world, the way
nature breathes life intoeverything it touches, from
leaves and flowers to the humanspirit. The story moved Vashti
even as a child. But, perhapsappropriately for a future

(16:25):
filmmaker, it wasn't the bookthat first impacted her life.
It was the movie.

Yeah. I'm not sure when the film came out, I
believe, in the early nineties.I don't remember a time before
not seeing this movie. It'salways been sort of part of my
my library of inspiration, and Iremember having it at home. We
recorded it off of the TV, Ibelieve.

(16:52):
So I had a VHS of it that Iwould watch regularly. And the
things that I remember the mostabout it, the things that
inspired me the most were someof just the atmosphere and the
textures. Like, I remember thesound of Mary's little shoes
click clacking on the pavementas she would leave the house

(17:15):
misslethwait and go out to thegarden. Like and so I I think
I've always been attracted tokind of making things that have
these, I don't know, distincttextures and distinct sounds,
but I specifically remember thecharacter of Dickon showing Mary
that the plants weren't dead,that there's still life. And he
scratched at the bark to showher that there was green

(17:37):
underneath it.
And so I think those things feltso sort of, like, texturally
interesting and and just stuckwith me that throughout, like,
my artwork and through my filmwork, I've always tried to make
work that feels like it hasthese just sort of nods to the
idea that nature can be magicaland that there is something

(18:00):
really magical about somethingthat could be as normal and
simple as a garden. But justhaving these little secrets to
uncover always felt soattractive to me as a young
person.

Vashti's fascination with uncovering
secret magic in the world stayedwith her well past childhood
until, years later, shediscovered there had been a
potent layer of magic tuckedaway in her own family all
along.

A lot of the work that I was making as I was
sort of developing my artisticvoice in college I was really
inspired by fairy tale andfantasy. Mhmm. I can definitely
see the through line from thingslike the secret garden into
things that feel morefantastical. And then everything

(18:48):
sort of shifted for me when Iwent to Trinidad for the first
time. I didn't go until 2010,and I was it was right after I
finished college.
My grandfather passed away.Mhmm. My Trinidadian culture is
something I grew upunderstanding through the music
and through the food and myfamily members, but I had never
been there. And it kind of wasjust an entire shift for me when

(19:11):
I when I arrived because justthe way people talk, the way
they tell stories, It feels likestorytelling, folklore, ghost
stories are just part of thelexicon. It's just the way they
describe things.
They will make references tojumbies, to spirits, just in
regular conversation. That isjust the way the culture is
there. And I I loved that somuch, and I felt like, oh, this

(19:34):
is what I've been searching for.This is what I wanna focus on.
So I started making workspecifically about sort of
reconnecting or sort of learningabout my heritage through
visiting and through talking topeople.
And I think the sort of visualaesthetic I approached it with

(19:54):
was always with me, that sort ofgarden me, flora and fauna
appreciation, but the sort ofghostly darker side of it. The
way I describe it is thecollision between the natural
and the supernatural that feltlike a natural extension of that
same approach.

You know, I think it's kind of cool, like,
just thinking about, like,little leaders, little legends
in its own way, even thoughthey're not at all about flora
and fauna or birds or any ofthose, but they are about, like,
scratching a surface in a way,like you described earlier, the
bark from the tree and, like,take it and sort of like
uncovering, quote, magic, youknow, in these real stories that

(20:37):
are there. So I do I do see thatconnection.

Yeah. Thank you. I feel like it's always
gonna be a shock and a surpriseto me that my entry into the
publishing world was throughnonfiction. Definitely wouldn't
have ever thought that aboutmyself. I've always sort of been
drawn to these stories of floraand fauna and fantasy, or I

(21:00):
guess, like, the magic of thenatural world.
But I think after sort ofdeveloping my artistic voice
through making all these filmsabout Trinidad and Tobago and
putting them out into the worldand then coming out on the other
side and feeling like, okay.What do I wanna focus on now?
The things that I felt attractedto and inspired by all sort of

(21:27):
led me to this point. I mean,the world was changing. A lot
happened in 2016, and the ideafor little leaders came right on
the heels of the last election,and I went into Black History
Month feeling like I want to dosomething active.
I want to make work thatconnects with people. And the
characters for Little Leaders,the design of the character, I

(21:50):
came up with a few months priorwhen I was in London, which
London was a city that also hadthis sort of, like, shifting
effect in the way that I wantedto see the world, explore the
world, and I loved visiting. I'dgone to, like, the Natural
History Museum and, you know,Natural History Museum is

(22:11):
problematic in many ways, butthe architecture definitely left
me inspired. I'm like, wow. It'sbeautiful.
And then across the street isthe Victorian Albert Museum, and
I was so disappointed that I hadjust missed this Winnie the Pooh
exhibition. Oh, yeah. And I wason the plane flying back, and I
was thinking, man, I'm so upsetthat I didn't get to see this

(22:34):
Winnie the Pooh show. And And Iwas thinking about the character
of Winnie the Pooh. Like, man,isn't it amazing to design a
character to come up with acharacter that immediately when
people see it, it causes them areaction to go, oh, and they
wanna hug him and they love him.
And I thought, I wanna be ableto create characters like that.
And then I thought to myself,like, isn't it really sad that

(22:57):
we can feel that way aboutanimals, but we don't always
feel that about children,particularly black children? So
I think I was coming off of,like, the last couple of years
was news story after news story,Trayvon Martin and Tamir Rice.
And I just felt like, man, Iwish I could make work that made
people respond the same way theyhave to Winnie the Pooh and

(23:19):
Christopher Robin, but do thatfor black children. So I think
all of that was coming together,and I think it made sense that
Little Leaders would be theresult of this.

I think it feels like what you're
describing in a way is like youfelt compelled really to create
this. And so I think it's almostlike you didn't feel, like,
afforded. Like, you couldn'tjust go do this or that. Like,
you felt like the compulsion tocreate this thing because the
times called for you to createthat thing. You know?

Yeah. Definitely. I definitely feel
that. And I I think it waspartially the state of the
world, but it was alsopartially, like, me coming to
understand what kind of work Iwanna be making outside of
school, outside of a schoolsetting. It's not just for me.
It's not just for my ownexploration. If my goal is to
make work that connects withpeople, I need to be reflecting

(24:11):
the people. And so I I felt anecessity, a push to be more
responsive to the world aroundme rather than just make the
things that were fun for me, butalso still make them fun for me.

Yes. So fun for you too. Right? So I know
that you you always drew as akid, but did you always see
yourself as an artist?

I did. Yeah. I found a sort of school
assignment journal, like, one ofthose marble covered Yeah.
Composition notebooks, and itsays on the first page, it said,
my name is Vashti, and I wannabe an artist when I grow up.

Oh, that's amazing.

I wish I could find that notebook now.

Yes. You need to have that framed on your
yeah.

But, you know, I look at that, and I I think
about that, and it it makes me alittle sad because I know that I
I wanted to be an artist, but ata certain point, I switched
that. I thought that it's notpossible to be an artist, that
you can't be successful and bean artist. I definitely
internalized these thoughtsabout, like, what it means to be

(25:14):
successful really early on, andI tried to reject art making for

for a

long time.

So interesting. And what what did
you end up studying in college?Like, I know you went to Cal
Arts, but I think that waslater. Right?

For undergrad, I went to the University of
Virginia, and I was planning ondouble majoring in I think I
wanted to be a foreign affairsmajor. I didn't really have a
sense of how to find my way. Ibelieve it was my 1st semester
that I took art history for fun.That was gonna be my fun class,
and that was the beginning ofthe end. That was my gateway

(25:49):
class.

Your gateway drug? Mhmm.

Because I took art history and then art too.
And I was just like, I don'twanna study this stuff. I wanna
make it. I wanna talk more aboutthe thought process behind what
these people what they werethinking when they were making
this art. Mhmm.
And so just for fun, I took adrawing class the next semester,

(26:13):
and then then that was it. I waslike, okay. There's no way I can
keep pretending that I don'twanna do this, but I couldn't
keep myself away from it. And bythe end of that year, I started
thinking, okay. Is this reallywhat I wanna do?
If I'm gonna study art, if Iwanna be an artist, should I
stay at the University ofVirginia? Should I go somewhere

(26:33):
else? You know, does anyone growup to be a drawer?

Wrestling with those questions, Vashti
eventually chose to focus onfilmmaking, graduating from UVA
and moving on to theexperimental film program at Cal
Arts. But despite winningaccolades for her thesis film,
she was soon frustrated by thelimited entry level work in the
movie industry.

I wanted to be treated like a creative person
in the room. I was reallystruggling working in film, just
being a cog in the machine.Yeah. And so I was applying for
a number of different jobs, andeventually nothing came through.
And I said, okay.
I'm gonna stop applying for jobsand trying to make it work. I'm
going to just move back homewith my parents. The only thing

(27:18):
that has been making me moneyrecently is these little art
commissions I've been doing,like people paying me a couple
$100 to design their weddinginvitations or their greeting
cards or something. Maybe thisis what I'm gonna focus on. And
if I'm gonna treat thisseriously, you know, if I'm
gonna actually move home with myparents, I have to treat this
seriously because I I can't staythere forever.
And I had been hearing fromthose podcasts I was listening

(27:41):
to about SCBWI, the Society ofChildren's Book Writers and
Illustrators. So I finallyjoined, and I hadn't joined
prior because, like, themembership fee was, like, a
$100, and I wasn't willing tojust pay that out of curiosity.
But now, I was like, okay. I'mgonna spend the money on this.
And even if I can't afford itfor another year, I'm going to
leave this year with every bitof information that they can

(28:04):
offer me.
I'm gonna read all of theirmaterial. I'm gonna listen to
all of their podcasts. And thatmeans I'm going to start posting
my art more publicly and moreactively. And so they had, like,
a drawing competition, like, amonthly prompt. And the prize
for this little competition wasto have your art placed in the
monthly newsletter.
So I moved home with my parentsin about, like, March of 2016.

(28:29):
In May, I submitted my drawingat at the end of May. And I
opened up my email on June 1,2016. And in the newsletter was
my drawing. And I was like, oh,my gosh.
This is amazing. I felt sovalidated. Like, yeah. Maybe
this is the right thing. But thenext day, June 2nd, I got an

(28:49):
email from an art directorsaying that she had seen my
illustration, asking me if Iwanted to illustrate a book.
And I was like, wait, what? Thatthat happened a little faster
than I expected. I am terrified.I don't think I can do it. I'm
gonna do it because I said thisis what I'm gonna do.
I need to do it, but I wasterrified. I said yes. And

(29:10):
fortunately, SPWI had, like, achapter in their guidebook
that's literally called, so youjust got your 1st deal in
illustration. Now what? And itwalked you through how to
negotiate your contract, and Idid that.
And that was just the beginningof everything.

And you're very driven. I think a lot of
people have a perception ofartists as, like, very carefree
and, like, the I move with thewind. Mhmm. You know, whether or
not that's true for someartists. Instead, you took,
like, a different approach of,like, I'm gonna this is it.
I'm gonna focus, and I'm gonnadrive to get this thing that you
wanted, you know, but it wasn'tbe the lawyer, you know.

Right. Exactly.

It's like the, you know, the language of
your soul, really, instead. Areyou surprised that you did find
a way to be a drawer as acareer? That, yes, that is that
is a career. Does it surpriseyou that you, like, did this
whole long, like, giant loop andthen came to find yourself as an
illustrator and a writer?

Yeah. It does. It definitely does. I never even
thought of illustration orchildren's books as something
that was possible for me. And Ithink, like, now that we're back
on this side of the loop, I'minterested in looping back
around and bringing in my ghoststories and Trinidadian folklore

(30:27):
into my book work and Yeah.
Maybe eventually more film ortelevision work. Can you

say a little more about that?

I mean, I'm interested in meeting kids where
they are, and, you know, I wantmy stories to connect with young
people. And I remember nothaving a lot of picture books at
home. I remember my mom notliking to spend money on books,
and I think about how we hadtelevision. We had at the very

(30:57):
least, we had, like, PBS. And Iremember watching cartoons and
really connecting withcharacters through, you you
know, film and television.
And so I've always had in theback of my mind, if there's a
scenario where someone isn'tgonna have access to a book like
Little Leaders or have access toa book like Big, I would love

(31:18):
for them to be able to haveaccess to a film or TV version
of it.

Okay. Yes. I'm putting that into the
universe. I want the TV versionof it. But I'm sure you've had
some very special moments whenyou're visiting schools or doing
read alouds.
And I know you've said that manyparents, many moms, especially,
and thank you for writing bigand have an experience with
that, but I'd love for you toshare about any memorable
moments that you've had orinteractions that you've had

(31:46):
with kids that you've visited.

I think one of my favorite things is at every
school presentation I do, Ialways end with a drawing
demonstration, and I walk themthrough how to draw my
characters. And then they go offand they go back to their
classrooms. And, like, a daylater or the end of the day,
I'll get an email from one ofthe teachers to say, like, look,
the kids were still talkingabout it afterwards. Look, they

(32:09):
drew your characters. Theyfollowed your steps and they
created their own characters.
That to me feels so powerful tooffer them tools to express
themselves. That feels amazing.And I get given many gifts of
kids' drawings and the thingsthat they wanna share with me.
And, like, that feels really,really powerful. As much as
stories matter to me and mybooks matter to me, I'll always

(32:32):
connect with the kids who justwanna be doodling in the corner.
And if it's helping them expressthemselves, then I will feel
like maybe I'm doing somethingright with this.

I'd say you're doing something right.
And I'm not the only one,obviously, who thinks it. You've
won a lot of awards, a lot ofprestigious awards, and
especially the Caldecott medalfor big. And, you know, when you
accepted the award, you gavethis incredible speech that
acknowledged artist after artistwho really paved the way for
you. And I wanted just to hearmore about that about that

(33:03):
speech.

I think people describe my, like, entry into
the book world as the sort of,like, meteoric rise. I hit the
ground running with, like Yeah.You know, Little Leaders was,
like, an immediate hit, and ittook off in ways that I couldn't
have anticipated. But I trulyattribute the fact that I was
able to have an idea and sell itfor a 3 book deal, and then have

(33:29):
it come out that year. Like, Iattribute that ease through
which I entered this industry toall of the work that many people
have been doing, all thegroundwork that people have laid
over the, like, 10 years prior.
So the we need diverse books andthe own voices movements in the
publishing industry to make therunway for me to take off like

(33:49):
that. The first thing they toldme about winning this Caldecott
medal is that I'm the 1st blackwoman to win this award, and
that didn't make any sense tome. There are many people who
have come before me, especiallypeople who have been given the
Caldecott honor, includingfriends of mine. So Right.
Before you give me all thatpraise, let's acknowledge that
there's so many people here whoabsolutely could have and should

(34:11):
have won that award, including,like, at the time, a living
legend, Faith Ringgold.
And it made a lot of sense thatI entered publishing with this
book, Little Leaders, thatcelebrated black women in
history, and that I wouldn't bewhere I am without the work of
so many of those people, that itwas absolutely important to
acknowledge all the the 7 blackwomen that had been given a

(34:34):
Caldecott honor before me. But,yeah, I think in terms of, like,
my own personal influences, Ithink I'm still developing as a
creator. I think my work has haschanged a lot over the last 8
years because I'm stilllearning. I'm still finding new
ways to express myself, and Ithink I'll probably continue to
do that, but I think itdefinitely is important for me

(34:56):
to study the people who havecome before

me. With Vashti's dedication to
representation and bodyacceptance, it's no surprise
that her reading challengecenters around those themes.
She's curated a list of booksthat inspired and helped her in
the process of writing big aboutunderstanding and dismantling
anti fat bias, adultificationbias, and celebrations of black

(35:24):
girlhood. This is Vashti's bigreading list.

So first one is Girlhood Interrupted, which is
not a book. It is the study fromthe Georgetown Law Center on
Poverty and Inequality. The fulltitle is, Girlhood Interrupted
the Erasure of Black Girls'Childhoods. And that was my
first introduction to the termadultification bias, and it
definitely shifted the way Iwanted to approach my work and
definitely a jumping off pointfor the story of Big. So one

(35:53):
really important one is calledFearing the Black Body by
Sabrina Strings.
Also, The Body is Not an Apologyby Sonya Renee Taylor. Fat Talk,
Virginia Sol Smith. What WeDon't Talk About When We Talk
About Fat, Aubrey Gordon, TheBluest Eye by Toni Morrison, and
I have some picture books. Ihave Bodies Are Cool by Tyler
Feder, I Love My Body Because byShelly Annand, and a middle

(36:16):
grade book in verse, Starfish byLisa Phipps.

You can download Vashti's reading
challenge and all of our authorreading challenges at the
reading culture pod.com. Andthis week's Beanstack featured
librarian is Kat Gatcombe. Katis now my colleague at
Beanstack. But before that, shewas a youth services supervisor

(36:41):
for a Nashua Public Library inNew Hampshire. Today, Kat shares
about a program she ran thatcalled upon a cross section of
her community.

Kat Gatcomb (36:50):
One program that I really loved, I thought went
well, it was well received byour community, was an early
childhood fair. And the purposeis really to connect families
with children under 5 tocommunity resources, because not
all of them might be in daycareor preschool. They might not
know what's available to them.So before they're in school,

(37:11):
connecting them to theircommunity. So that was a lot of
fun to work with all the othercommunity partners and plan this
fair.
We had it outside. We hadmusical performers and art
projects and, you know, food,like, things to to make it a fun
event, but then also reallyfocus on educating parents and
caregivers about what wasavailable to them. And I think

(37:34):
it was good too for the libraryto become aware of everything
that was available. So, ifpeople asked us questions, we
had contact information forwhere to send them.

This has been The Reading Culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Vashti
Harrison. Again, I'm your host,Jordan Lloyd Bookie. And
currently, I'm rereading Jamesby Percival Everett since it's
the first book of my new, woohoo, book club and Ultraviolet
by Aida Salazar. If you'veenjoyed today's episode, please

(38:12):
show some love and give us a 5star review. It only takes a
second, and it really helps.
Thank you for doing it. Thisepisode was produced by Mel
Webb, Jackie Lamport, and LowerStreet Media and script edited
by Josiah Lamberto Egan. Tolearn more about how you can
help grow your community'sreading culture, check out all
of our resources atbeanstack.com. And remember to

(38:35):
sign up for our newsletter atthe
for special offers and bonuscontent. Thanks for listening,
and keep reading.

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