October 15, 2025 • 31 mins
“This is what awe always does: it’s the zoom out. All of a sudden, you can see how tiny and insignificant you are, and you plug into that bigger thing” - Kate DiCamillo
When was the last time you were so captivated by the beauty of the world around you that it stopped you in your tracks? Kate DiCamillo intentionally has those moments daily. In a world that can feel dark and hopeless, she maintains a sense of awe. It’s the force that helps her move through both joy and loss. It’s what allows her to keep noticing the miraculous in the ordinary.
One of the most beloved voices in children’s literature, Kate is a two-time Newbery medal winner and author of more than 25 books—from Because of Winn-Dixie to The Tale of Despereaux to The Miraculous Journey of Edward Tulane.
In this episode, Tender Heart: Kate DiCamillo on Awe and Grief, Kate returns to the show for the first of “The Second Chapter” conversations with previous guests. This time, Kate reflects on awe, grief, and the beauty that connects them. She shares the moments that have gobsmacked her across decades—from childhood discoveries of “protective coloration” to the painting she has revisited at every stage of her life. Kate also opens up about coping with tragedy and how the best way through those moments in life is “the doing of it.”
Settle in for an honest, hard, and still uplifting conversation with one of the most cherished voices of a generation.
***
https://www.thereadingculturepod.com/kate-dicamillo-second-chapter
This week's Beanstack Featured librarian is Chelsea Pisani, a rockstar children's librarian at Maple Valley Branch Library in Akron, Ohio. She returns to share her secret sauce for igniting a love of reading in all kids.
Show Chapters
Chapter 1: The Art of Noticing
Chapter 2: The Hem of the Garment
Chapter 3: Charlotte’s Web
Chapter 4: Ramona the Great
Chapter 5: Then and Now
Chapter 6: Beanstack Featured Librarian
Links
- The Reading Culture
- The Reading Culture Newsletter Signup
- Follow The Reading Culture on Instagram (for giveaways and bonus content)
- Kate DiCamillo
- Repast in a Garden Painting
- Charlotte’s Web
- The Accidental Tourist
- Beanstack resources to build your community’s reading culture
- Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Host and Production Credits
Host: Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Producers: Mel Webb and Lower Street Media
Script Editors: Josia Lamberto-Egan, Mel Webb, Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kate DiCamillo (00:04):
This is what awe always does. It's the zoom out.
It's just like all of a suddenyou can see how tiny and
insignificant you are and youplug into that bigger thing.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:15):
To notice is one thing, but to be undone
by what you notice, that's awe.Awe has the power to change the
way we move through the world.Kate DiCamillo is one of the
most beloved voices inchildren's literature. A two
time Newbery Medal winner andthe author of more than 25 books
(00:35):
from Because of Winn Dixiecelebrating its twenty fifth
year this year to The Tale ofDesperaux to The Miraculous
Journey of Edward Tulane, herwork has shaped generations of
readers. Today, I'm sitting downwith Kate for what we call the
second chapter, part of a serieswhere we bring back previous
guests of the show and ask themto dive a little deeper into one
(00:59):
or two topics, subjects where wethink they've got a lot of real
wisdom to drop on us.
In this episode, Kate reflectson awe, on grief, and the beauty
behind both. She shares thepainting that has stopped her in
her tracks across decades andreveals what she's learned from
a bee, a spider, and a dog. Wealso talk about coping with the
(01:22):
Annunciation Church murders,which as it turns out, we each
have a personal connection to.My name is Jordan Lloyd Bookie,
and this is the reading culture,a show where we speak with
diverse authors about ways tobuild a stronger culture of
reading in our communities. Wedive deep into their personal
experiences and inspirations.
(01:43):
Our show is made possible byBeanstack, the leading solution
for motivating people to readmore. Learn more at
beanstack.com. And make sure tocheck us out on Instagram the
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bonus content at thereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter alright on tothe show Hey, listeners. Are you
(02:11):
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(02:55):
I went and listened to our talk from last
time.
Kate DiCamillo (02:58):
Okay. Then stop me from repeating myself when I
start to say something you say.You said that last time.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:04):
Yeah. Right. Okay.
Yes. But it was so yeah. I was very you were
so nice. You're such a kindperson.
Kate DiCamillo (03:12):
It's I was gonna give you a long psychological
response to that, and I thought,you know, that's a lovely
compliment. Thank you. I'll takeit.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:20):
Oh, you feel like it's a shortcoming?
Kate DiCamillo (03:22):
No. It's just something that, you know, if you
want the whole therapy answer,things were rough when I was a
kid and I survived. And part ofwhat my brain did was you must
not have been good if yousurvive. So it's only recently
that I've understood throughthis, through what I get to do,
(03:44):
you know, writing Mhmm. That myown my tender heart, own my
kindness, own my attempts to bea good person in the world.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:52):
Your tender heart? Yeah. Something you said
when we first spoke that I wrotedown, something miraculous is
taking place. I can feel it. IfI just turn slowly enough, I'll
be able to see it.
I'm wondering if you and yourand your tender heart can
remember when you first startedreally noticing things.
Kate DiCamillo (04:13):
I just remember so much, and I think that's
because I've been payingattention for as long as I can
remember, not always for goodreasons. You know? It's like
when's the tablecloth gonna getpulled? When's the table gonna
be overturned kind of thing? Ithink there was that.
But it's one of those odd thingsthat then benefited me because
(04:36):
that hyper attention toeverything, that noticing
everything, that's so much wherestories come from. And if you
turn it, if you're not alwayslooking for when the table's
gonna be turned over, butinstead if you're looking for
the miraculous all the time,then it's a comfort. You know?
And it's the same with if you'relooking for danger all the time
(04:57):
or if you're looking for beautyall the time, you can flip it
where you're looking for beauty.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:02):
I like that idea. This leads into a
question. If you can remember atime when something small really
struck you and saw it for itsbeauty or that you can think of.
Kate DiCamillo (05:16):
Yesterday, I watched a bumblebee back out of
a flower. He was all the way inthere. I watched him disappear
inside, and I stopped to likethank him and to talk to him.
And then I watched him fly outbackwards. And it was miraculous
(05:36):
because it's like that's goingon all the time and what goes on
with bees is so complicated.
It undoes you the more you readabout it. And, you know, and I
got to see it. I got to see himgo in. I got to see him back
out. It's funny because I'mgonna do the Eudora Welty
lecture in March.
(05:58):
Oh. And in the course of writingthat, I wrote about something
that I haven't ever used beforein a speech. And now I'm gonna
tell you, Jordan, why not? Like,I just realized what a critical
moment it was in my life, and ithas to do with noticing, and it
has to do with becomingyourself. So I went to this
great nursery school inPhiladelphia, and I loved it.
(06:22):
I loved school from the minute Icrossed into a threshold of a
school. It's like, oh, boy. Youknow? And my parents had a
dinner party, and it was a bigdeal because I was gonna get to
sit at the grown up's table.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (06:35):
Oh, yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (06:36):
And on a couple of chairs, literally
dictionaries, because I wasalways small for my age. I don't
remember who the adults werethat were there, but one of them
asked me at the dinner tablethat standard question, you
know, what'd you learn in schooltoday? Yeah. And so I said
protective coloration. And thetable, talk about noticing,
(06:58):
stopped, you know, because Ilooked even younger than I was
because I'm holding my knife andfork in the correct way and
because I'm saying multislavicwords and everything just ground
to a halt.
And it was just one of thosemoments where because I was
paying attention, I knew severalthings at once. Mhmm. I knew
(07:21):
this was my way. You know? Thewords.
The words to be able to use thewords to be able to use the
words to surprise and to takethe room and to use my size in
combination with the largewords. And then my father, like,
super intently always interestedin my brain, you know, then he
(07:42):
wanted a definition, and Idefined it. And it was just like
it was one of those momentswhere I knew who I was and was
paying attention. And that wasbeauty because I understood who
I could be. Does that makesense?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (07:57):
Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think there is
anything. That's like one of myat least getting to see it
through my kids, I think. Whenyou know the thing that you're
supposed to be doing Yeah.There's really nothing more
incredible than that really, orwatching somebody else that you
love doing that too.
You know?
Kate DiCamillo (08:12):
Yeah. I think it's beautiful anytime it
happens, that wonderful thing ofsomebody figuring out who they
can be in the world.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:25):
The art of noticing begins with the small
things, a bee, a word, and thosemoments can also become the kind
of awe that shifts yourperspective all at once.
Usually, it's uplifting, butsometimes it's more complicated.
Kate DiCamillo (08:44):
It's weird because that happens anytime I I
know what the story is. Do youknow what I mean? So it's just
like so I might be looking atsomething else entirely in the
world. Like this morning when Igot up to plug in the writing
lights and I came out onto theporch and I saw this little moon
(09:07):
up there, and, I mean, thatalways fills me with awe
whenever I see it. But itclicked into it's like, oh, wait
a minute.
I know the next thing thathappens in the story, and that
happened as I'm looking at themoon. This is what awe always
does is, like, it takes you outof your tiny little it's the
(09:30):
zoom out.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:30):
Yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (09:31):
You know? It's just like all of a sudden you
can see how tiny andinsignificant you are, and you
plug into that bigger thing. Andfor me, it's like I can kinda,
like, connect the dots into thestory. So looking at the thing
that moves me to awe, that makesme forget myself, and then it
comes back around to knowingwhat's gonna happen in the
(09:53):
story.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:54):
So for you finding what's going to happen
in the story, what's coming, itcomes from releasing, noticing
things around you, or, like,that's when you're able to sort
of, like, let your mind go thereis when those things come to
you?
Kate DiCamillo (10:06):
Right. Yeah. It's the me goes away. Mhmm. You
know?
That worried chipmunk that's,you know, running around
terrified and shoving nuts intomy mouth and thinking, what's
gonna that part of me, theworried part, the small part
disappears and I connect tosomething much bigger than I am,
and it allows me to do the workof writing the story.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:30):
And I think this ties into it that, okay.
Well, we use awe as a verypositive word. I think we think
of awe, you know, something canbe awesome, whatever. But then
it also implies dread
Kate DiCamillo (10:41):
at some level or Sure. I mean, like, makes me
think of Rilke and every angelis terrifying. But we don't
think of it that way anymore, dowe? Mm-mm. But every angel is
terrifying and also beautiful.
I mean, you're like on yourknees with the beauty and the
terror. Right?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:59):
Do you feel that way too in a sense, or do
you also have like a sense offear or dread in the face of
some of those moments of awethat you have?
Kate DiCamillo (11:09):
Yeah. Maybe because of the enormity and also
oddly because of the beauty.Right? I mean, it makes you so
small and it also makes yourealize how little of the beauty
we actually grasp, you know?Just the hem of the garment of
it.
And that's terrifying that wedon't even see everything that
(11:31):
can be seen.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:37):
It's not just bees and moons and natural
wonders that give Kate that oddconnection to something bigger.
Literature and art can do ittoo. And there's one painting,
not a very famous painting, thathas felt particularly
transcendent to Kate even acrossdecades.
Kate DiCamillo (11:55):
There is a piece actually in the National
Gallery. I saw it for the firsttime when I was in my mid
twenties and with my aunt Annewho lived in DC and who
considered the National Galleryto be hers. And every time you
(12:15):
visited aunt Anne, she wouldsay, is this not the most
beautiful city in the world? Andhere is all the beautiful art. I
was in my mid twenties, and Isaw this piece when I was with
Aunt Anne by Voulard, who isconsidered a lesser
impressionist, which is reallyrude, I think.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:34):
The actual title? Yes. Wow.
Kate DiCamillo (12:37):
And this little piece is called Repast in a
Garden, and it stopped me in mytracks. It's painted on
cardboard. I came back again andsaw it after my mom died, and I
was visiting my aunt, mybrother, I were to deliver my
mother's ashes back to where shewanted to be. So I was 44, and
(12:57):
the three of us went and lookedfor it and stood in front of
this painting. And then twoyears ago, I was in DC, and each
time it stopped me And it'sutter simplicity and and beauty
and light.
Like, when you see somethinglike that and it makes you stop,
it's the same as reading do youknow Anne Tyler? Yeah. She wrote
(13:21):
a book called The AccidentalTourist. Yeah. And there's this
beautiful part in there wheresomebody in the middle of the
night puts their hand on thescar
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (13:32):
Mhmm.
Kate DiCamillo (13:33):
And says, look. See? We all have scars. There's
just this beautiful, stunningmoment when I was in my twenties
when I read that and I thought,oh, that's what I wanna do. I
wanna make somebody feel the waythose words just made me feel.
I wanna make somebody feel theway looking at this painting
makes me feel. So it is it'slike the beauty makes me want to
(13:57):
try and create beauty. Mhmm.Can't paint, but I do know the
words protective coloration.Right?
And so, okay, maybe I could dosomething with words. Charlotte,
said Wilbur after a while. Whyare you so quiet? I like to sit
(14:21):
still, she said. I've alwaysbeen rather quiet.
Yes. But you seem especially sotoday. Do you feel alright? A
little tired perhaps, but I feelpeaceful. Your success in the
ring this morning was, to asmall degree, my success.
Your future is assured. You willlive secure and safe, Wilbur.
(14:44):
Nothing can harm you now. Theseautumn days will shorten and
grow cold. The leaves will shakeloose from the trees and fall.
Christmas will come, then thesnows of winter. You will live
to enjoy the beauty of thefrozen world, for you mean a
(15:05):
great deal to Zuckerman, and hewill not harm you ever. Winter
will pass. The days willlengthen. The ice will melt in
the pasture pond.
The song sparrow will return andsing. The frogs will awake. The
warm wind will blow again. Allthese sights and sounds and
(15:27):
smells will be yours to enjoy,Wilbur, this lovely world, these
precious days.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (15:39):
Just as she did in her first appearance on
this show, Kate read again fromEby White's classic Charlotte's
Web. Even after all this time,it remains the passage that does
it for her.
Kate DiCamillo (15:55):
It's such a profound promise, and it's one
of those things that, you know,Catherine Patterson had said
this, and I didn't encounter thequote until I had been writing
for kids for a while. But I feltit always that thing about how
you're duty bound when you writefor kids to end with hope. And,
(16:15):
you know, that that is thepromise. This passage is what is
implicit in everything that Itry to do. I don't consciously
think of that, but I think thathas to be theirs.
There is this thrum of hope thatneeds and must be in books for
(16:35):
kids that I rely on when I'mwriting for it to show up and
that the reader relies on for itto be there. And it is it's it's
a promise, and it's a reminder.Talk about beauty, this
beautiful world, these preciousdays. And that is true now even
(16:56):
though times are so difficult,and we need to be reminded
always.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:02):
Charlotte is such a beautiful character,
but it's bittersweet to love herbecause even as we read, we know
we're going to lose her. Kate'sreading for this episode had an
extra layer of resonance becauseher beloved dog, Ramona, had
recently passed on after manyyears of companionship. Kate and
I would sometimes exchange textmessages about our dogs. Mine,
(17:24):
Howie, looks a lot like Ramonadid. So I was really sad to
learn about Ramona's passing.
I'm thinking also about the lossof sweet Ramona, which
I know is, like, so impossibly hard last
year. Last year, has it been ayear?
Kate DiCamillo (17:40):
It no. Not even. Right? No. It hasn't been a
year.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:43):
Yeah. It's April. What in those moments,
what does that teach you or showyou about love?
Kate DiCamillo (17:52):
Oh, well, loving a dog is the primer for how to
be in the world because of, youknow, the differences and it's
like that joke, bought a dog.Congratulations. You've
purchased a tragedy.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (18:07):
I've never heard that, but that is very
accurate.
Kate DiCamillo (18:11):
Because they're you know, the numbers don't add
up our way. And so what you'reconfronted with that so starkly
when you lose a dog. And thefirst response is always, I'm
not gonna do that to myselfagain. I'm not gonna sign up for
that. And then it only takes aminute for the other voice to
(18:34):
say, well, what's the point inbeing here then if you're not
gonna love?
And it also so clearly shows youhow to love means that you are
going to lose. Full stop. And sowhat does that mean? You're not
gonna do it? You know?
It's like, again, what's thepoint in being here? I always
(18:58):
think about a guy that used tosit down by the coffee shop, and
I would walk by this is the dogbefore Ramona. It was Henry. And
he would always this guy wouldalways wanna show me the picture
of his dog that he lost twentyyears ago. And he was so
brokenhearted, and he couldn'tget another dog.
And I always wanted to say tohim, but now you've been twenty
years without a dog. And it'sjust like it's that math. It's
(19:22):
just like all those twenty yearsyou could have been loving a
dog. You know? You have to keepon loving.
It hurts, and it's everythingthat makes life worthwhile. And
dogs are just like the walkingarithmetic of that.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (19:39):
Loving her dog made it worthwhile even
though Kate knew that outlivingher pet was an inevitable cost
of their relationship. But whatabout the deaths we don't see
coming? The ones for which thereare no rationalizations. Just a
few weeks before thisconversation, Kate's home
neighborhood of Minneapolis borewitness to a senseless and
(19:59):
horrific mass shooting at theAnnunciation Catholic School.
And it was very much on my mindas Kate and I wrestled with the
topics of grief and hope.
I want to talk a little bit about a little
more down, but then we couldtalk about change.
Kate DiCamillo (20:17):
Sorry. Sorry. We're gonna we're gonna go we're
gonna go how low can you go?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:21):
I feel like right now this world yeah. I
don't feel I know that right nowthe world feels very heavy. It
feels very dreary, andespecially where you are. I was
thinking about you so muchduring the Annunciation Church
massacres, killing thosechildren. My childhood, like,
(20:41):
best friend Johnny, who was,like, down the street from me,
it was, his one of the littlegirls, Harper, who was shot
there or was killed was, like,his daughter's best friend.
Kate DiCamillo (20:51):
Oh my god.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:52):
Yeah. And he had written me to tell me how
much that little girl who waskilled reminded him of me. And
he had said I just said it to mywife the other night. I hadn't
spoken to him in twenty fiveyear in twenty years, really.
And I don't know.
Something I mean, obviously,like, you know, just because I I
realized, like, how desensitizedI think I have become.
Kate DiCamillo (21:10):
I doubt it. You know, do you wanna know what it
is a mile away from me. It'sright next to a grocery store,
Kowalski's, and, you know, thekids would get out, like, around
three if I happened to begrocery shopping, and they all
would say, hey to me. So the daythat it happened, I went up on
(21:31):
the street corner with acardboard sign that said, when
will a child's life be worthmore than an adult's right to
own a weapon of war? And thesign was very crowded and hard
to read as people drove by.
(21:51):
A lot of people stopped andsaid, what does your son say?
But I stood up there because Idid not I'm like at wit's end.
What to do? What to do, and Ican put my physical self up
there. And there were a lot ofpeople who were walking who just
stopped and we just held eachother.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:13):
How do you, like, pull yourself when those
moments come? Like moments ofdespair, which just feel so much
more frequent right now, how doyou still see beauty and awe?
And what like, how are youtapping into those things when
it can feel just so heavy?
Kate DiCamillo (22:33):
Well, part of it is other people, but I have a
responsibility to do what I cando. And part of what I can do is
find beauty and meaning and loveand connection through the
stories, and the stories go outinto the world. And, hopefully,
they provide those things toother people. So for me to wake
(22:58):
up the morning after that andthink, as any right thinking
person would think, what is thepoint in me going and sitting
down and trying to write thisstory? And then I have to
consciously will my way intothinking.
(23:18):
And it's hard to talk aboutbecause it sounds self
aggrandizing, but the books areout there. People find the
books. I know this in times ofgreat loss, great need, and read
them to each other, read them tothemselves, and find something.
And so if this is the thing thatI can do in the world, then I
(23:39):
need to do it. And in the doingof it, I find those things
myself, the beauty, the comfort.
So In the doing of it. In thedoing of it. Yeah. I
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (23:51):
think that resonates because I think people
say, and I find it's true that,you know, that the best the
antidote is to take action. Itcan be so hard.
Kate DiCamillo (24:02):
Which is why I walked up to the street corner
with my sign. Right? It's justlike it's what difference does
it make? But my body is gettingthe message
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:13):
Yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (24:13):
I'm doing something. I'm not just gonna
sit here and rock back andforth, which is what I wanna do.
I'm gonna walk up there.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:33):
I think last time we spoke, we were
celebrating one of theanniversaries of Despero, and
this time it's Winn Dixie. Andfor me, rereading those books,
you know, I'm so much moreemotional when I read them. I
think I already was when I readthem aloud to my children. You
know, you get this, like, wholeother experience as an adult
when I'm reading Winn Dixie. I'mthinking about it as, like,
(24:56):
okay.
I hope I hope that we did allthese things that we did. You
know, it's like everything issort of this feels like I'm
reading something in my pastnow. So twenty five years with
how you see yourself now and,like, all these different things
that have changed in your lifesince you wrote them, good and
bad, and where you're seeingbeauty, grief in that.
Kate DiCamillo (25:17):
It's funny because what I'm so aware of
with those books and then beingout in the world, it's that
thing that because people havenow grown up with those books
and the kids who had them readto them or read those books on
their own are now reading themto their kids or gifting them to
(25:41):
their kids. And it becomes thisthing of, like, in this moment
of all of us, like, collectivelyprocessing something with those
so I'm grateful that those booksexist because they give me the
language to talk about light,darkness, being impossibly small
(26:05):
in a terrifying world and stilltaking action, I can think about
Despero and think I amimpossibly small, but I can be
brave like that mouse was brave.And Opal and Winn Dixie we did
this thing here in Minneapolisat the Riverview Theater, which
(26:25):
is this older, wonderfultheater, and we did an
anniversary showing of themovie. And there's this
wonderful moment at the end wheneverybody's in Gloria Dump's
living room. And Opal is lookingaround, and you can see on her
face, oh, I did this.
Yeah. I brought all these peopletogether.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:47):
Yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (26:47):
It comforts me, you know? And that's how it was
doing the event. The theaterholds 700 people. It didn't seem
like 700 people. It just seemedlike this community of people.
We were, you know, holding eachother kind of, you know.
Gathered. You're gathered. Yeah.Gathered.
Yeah.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:05):
I thought a lot about that in rereading that
book. Just this idea, which I'vebeen thinking and trying to,
like, bring more into my lifenow is gathering and bringing
just being together, beingtogether with people, reminding
yourself of what is human andwhat is good and And what is
real. And what is real.
Kate DiCamillo (27:25):
Yep. What is real. Yep. Which is the other
thing about going out there withyour physical self and gathering
with your physical self.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:33):
You've talked about writing toward
wholeness, writing toward that.Do you feel that, like,
continuing to sort of, like,happen for you? Do you feel that
more and more with every bookthat you're writing? That's a
good question.
Kate DiCamillo (27:45):
Yeah. And it actually like, it takes me back
to, like, the moon this morning,awe, and that thing of zooming
out. Mhmm. And so that fullnessand wholeness is just like it's
less and less and less and lessabout me and more about, like,
this kind of thing of it's justthe zooming out, and it's way
(28:10):
way beyond me and my smallconcerns, you know.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:22):
While we don't have a reading challenge
for these second chapterconversations, we do still have
our Beanstack feature librariansand this week's is once again
Chelsea Pisani, an incrediblechildren's librarian at Maple
Valley Branch Library in Akron,Ohio. This time, she shares her
secret sauce for igniting a loveof reading in all of the kids at
(28:46):
her branch.
Chelsea Pisani (28:51):
So my secret sauce when it comes to getting
kids to being excited aboutreading is I let them pick. I
ask like, hey, what do you wantto read about? And I had the
kids in the beginning of theschool year do a little survey.
And they said, want books wherethe kids look like us, real
stories. They pick what craftswe do, what books we pick.
(29:15):
Yeah. And I think just reallycreativity trying to figure out
and meet the kids where they'reat. I'm always trying something
new. I tried bibliotherapy withthe kids and I created kids,
everybody goes through things.So I had themed books in little
bins, boxes.
I made this big display onshelves. Put the books by themes
(29:35):
whether it's stress, body image,consent, and from picture books
to graphic novels to chapterbooks and just showing kids the
power of fiction and how thepower of stories can be healing
too. I put them front and centerwith my new books and I ended up
having to expand the displaybecause so many people like
(29:57):
loved them. They were takinghandfuls of the books. Like the
kids really really loved it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:07):
This has been the reading culture and
you've been listening to myconversation with the one and
only Kate DiCamillo again I'myour host Jordan Lloyd Bookie
and currently I'm reading air offire by Sarah j Maas and Dear
Manny by Nick Stone. If youenjoyed today's episode, please
show some love and give us afive star or even better, a
(30:28):
written review whether you'relistening on Apple or Spotify,
any other platform. It all helpsto make sure that this episode
is listened to by more and morepeople. So thank you, thank you
so much for taking the time todo that. I really appreciate it.
To learn more about how you canhelp grow your community's
reading culture, check out allof our resources at
(30:49):
beanstack.com and remember tosign up for our newsletter at
the readingculturepod.comforward slash newsletter for
special offers and a lot ofbonus content this episode was
produced by Mel Webb and lowerstreet media and script edited
by Josiah Lamberto Egan. Thanksfor listening and keep reading.
This is what awe always does. It's the zoom out.
It's just like all of a suddenyou can see how tiny and
insignificant you are and youplug into that bigger thing.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:15):
To notice is one thing, but to be undone
by what you notice, that's awe.Awe has the power to change the
way we move through the world.Kate DiCamillo is one of the
most beloved voices inchildren's literature. A two
time Newbery Medal winner andthe author of more than 25 books
(00:35):
from Because of Winn Dixiecelebrating its twenty fifth
year this year to The Tale ofDesperaux to The Miraculous
Journey of Edward Tulane, herwork has shaped generations of
readers. Today, I'm sitting downwith Kate for what we call the
second chapter, part of a serieswhere we bring back previous
guests of the show and ask themto dive a little deeper into one
(00:59):
or two topics, subjects where wethink they've got a lot of real
wisdom to drop on us.
In this episode, Kate reflectson awe, on grief, and the beauty
behind both. She shares thepainting that has stopped her in
her tracks across decades andreveals what she's learned from
a bee, a spider, and a dog. Wealso talk about coping with the
(01:22):
Annunciation Church murders,which as it turns out, we each
have a personal connection to.My name is Jordan Lloyd Bookie,
and this is the reading culture,a show where we speak with
diverse authors about ways tobuild a stronger culture of
reading in our communities. Wedive deep into their personal
experiences and inspirations.
(01:43):
Our show is made possible byBeanstack, the leading solution
for motivating people to readmore. Learn more at
beanstack.com. And make sure tocheck us out on Instagram the
reading culture pod andsubscribe to our newsletter for
bonus content at thereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter alright on tothe show Hey, listeners. Are you
(02:11):
looking for a fun, easy way totrack your reading and earn cool
rewards? Well, meet Beanstack,the ultimate reading app used by
a community of over 15,000schools, libraries, and
organizations nationwide.
Are you an avid reader? Checkwith your local library to see
if they offer Beanstack forfree. A parent? Ask your child's
(02:34):
teacher if the school libraryalready uses Beanstack. And if
you are an educator searchingfor a fresh alternative to
accelerated reader, Beanstack isthe perfect tool to cultivate a
thriving reading culture.
Ready to turn the page? Visitbeanstack.com to learn more.
(02:55):
I went and listened to our talk from last
time.
Kate DiCamillo (02:58):
Okay. Then stop me from repeating myself when I
start to say something you say.You said that last time.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:04):
Yeah. Right. Okay.
Yes. But it was so yeah. I was very you were
so nice. You're such a kindperson.
Kate DiCamillo (03:12):
It's I was gonna give you a long psychological
response to that, and I thought,you know, that's a lovely
compliment. Thank you. I'll takeit.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:20):
Oh, you feel like it's a shortcoming?
Kate DiCamillo (03:22):
No. It's just something that, you know, if you
want the whole therapy answer,things were rough when I was a
kid and I survived. And part ofwhat my brain did was you must
not have been good if yousurvive. So it's only recently
that I've understood throughthis, through what I get to do,
(03:44):
you know, writing Mhmm. That myown my tender heart, own my
kindness, own my attempts to bea good person in the world.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:52):
Your tender heart? Yeah. Something you said
when we first spoke that I wrotedown, something miraculous is
taking place. I can feel it. IfI just turn slowly enough, I'll
be able to see it.
I'm wondering if you and yourand your tender heart can
remember when you first startedreally noticing things.
Kate DiCamillo (04:13):
I just remember so much, and I think that's
because I've been payingattention for as long as I can
remember, not always for goodreasons. You know? It's like
when's the tablecloth gonna getpulled? When's the table gonna
be overturned kind of thing? Ithink there was that.
But it's one of those odd thingsthat then benefited me because
(04:36):
that hyper attention toeverything, that noticing
everything, that's so much wherestories come from. And if you
turn it, if you're not alwayslooking for when the table's
gonna be turned over, butinstead if you're looking for
the miraculous all the time,then it's a comfort. You know?
And it's the same with if you'relooking for danger all the time
(04:57):
or if you're looking for beautyall the time, you can flip it
where you're looking for beauty.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:02):
I like that idea. This leads into a
question. If you can remember atime when something small really
struck you and saw it for itsbeauty or that you can think of.
Kate DiCamillo (05:16):
Yesterday, I watched a bumblebee back out of
a flower. He was all the way inthere. I watched him disappear
inside, and I stopped to likethank him and to talk to him.
And then I watched him fly outbackwards. And it was miraculous
(05:36):
because it's like that's goingon all the time and what goes on
with bees is so complicated.
It undoes you the more you readabout it. And, you know, and I
got to see it. I got to see himgo in. I got to see him back
out. It's funny because I'mgonna do the Eudora Welty
lecture in March.
(05:58):
Oh. And in the course of writingthat, I wrote about something
that I haven't ever used beforein a speech. And now I'm gonna
tell you, Jordan, why not? Like,I just realized what a critical
moment it was in my life, and ithas to do with noticing, and it
has to do with becomingyourself. So I went to this
great nursery school inPhiladelphia, and I loved it.
(06:22):
I loved school from the minute Icrossed into a threshold of a
school. It's like, oh, boy. Youknow? And my parents had a
dinner party, and it was a bigdeal because I was gonna get to
sit at the grown up's table.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (06:35):
Oh, yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (06:36):
And on a couple of chairs, literally
dictionaries, because I wasalways small for my age. I don't
remember who the adults werethat were there, but one of them
asked me at the dinner tablethat standard question, you
know, what'd you learn in schooltoday? Yeah. And so I said
protective coloration. And thetable, talk about noticing,
(06:58):
stopped, you know, because Ilooked even younger than I was
because I'm holding my knife andfork in the correct way and
because I'm saying multislavicwords and everything just ground
to a halt.
And it was just one of thosemoments where because I was
paying attention, I knew severalthings at once. Mhmm. I knew
(07:21):
this was my way. You know? Thewords.
The words to be able to use thewords to be able to use the
words to surprise and to takethe room and to use my size in
combination with the largewords. And then my father, like,
super intently always interestedin my brain, you know, then he
(07:42):
wanted a definition, and Idefined it. And it was just like
it was one of those momentswhere I knew who I was and was
paying attention. And that wasbeauty because I understood who
I could be. Does that makesense?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (07:57):
Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think there is
anything. That's like one of myat least getting to see it
through my kids, I think. Whenyou know the thing that you're
supposed to be doing Yeah.There's really nothing more
incredible than that really, orwatching somebody else that you
love doing that too.
You know?
Kate DiCamillo (08:12):
Yeah. I think it's beautiful anytime it
happens, that wonderful thing ofsomebody figuring out who they
can be in the world.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:25):
The art of noticing begins with the small
things, a bee, a word, and thosemoments can also become the kind
of awe that shifts yourperspective all at once.
Usually, it's uplifting, butsometimes it's more complicated.
Kate DiCamillo (08:44):
It's weird because that happens anytime I I
know what the story is. Do youknow what I mean? So it's just
like so I might be looking atsomething else entirely in the
world. Like this morning when Igot up to plug in the writing
lights and I came out onto theporch and I saw this little moon
(09:07):
up there, and, I mean, thatalways fills me with awe
whenever I see it. But itclicked into it's like, oh, wait
a minute.
I know the next thing thathappens in the story, and that
happened as I'm looking at themoon. This is what awe always
does is, like, it takes you outof your tiny little it's the
(09:30):
zoom out.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:30):
Yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (09:31):
You know? It's just like all of a sudden you
can see how tiny andinsignificant you are, and you
plug into that bigger thing. Andfor me, it's like I can kinda,
like, connect the dots into thestory. So looking at the thing
that moves me to awe, that makesme forget myself, and then it
comes back around to knowingwhat's gonna happen in the
(09:53):
story.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:54):
So for you finding what's going to happen
in the story, what's coming, itcomes from releasing, noticing
things around you, or, like,that's when you're able to sort
of, like, let your mind go thereis when those things come to
you?
Kate DiCamillo (10:06):
Right. Yeah. It's the me goes away. Mhmm. You
know?
That worried chipmunk that's,you know, running around
terrified and shoving nuts intomy mouth and thinking, what's
gonna that part of me, theworried part, the small part
disappears and I connect tosomething much bigger than I am,
and it allows me to do the workof writing the story.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:30):
And I think this ties into it that, okay.
Well, we use awe as a verypositive word. I think we think
of awe, you know, something canbe awesome, whatever. But then
it also implies dread
Kate DiCamillo (10:41):
at some level or Sure. I mean, like, makes me
think of Rilke and every angelis terrifying. But we don't
think of it that way anymore, dowe? Mm-mm. But every angel is
terrifying and also beautiful.
I mean, you're like on yourknees with the beauty and the
terror. Right?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:59):
Do you feel that way too in a sense, or do
you also have like a sense offear or dread in the face of
some of those moments of awethat you have?
Kate DiCamillo (11:09):
Yeah. Maybe because of the enormity and also
oddly because of the beauty.Right? I mean, it makes you so
small and it also makes yourealize how little of the beauty
we actually grasp, you know?Just the hem of the garment of
it.
And that's terrifying that wedon't even see everything that
(11:31):
can be seen.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (11:37):
It's not just bees and moons and natural
wonders that give Kate that oddconnection to something bigger.
Literature and art can do ittoo. And there's one painting,
not a very famous painting, thathas felt particularly
transcendent to Kate even acrossdecades.
Kate DiCamillo (11:55):
There is a piece actually in the National
Gallery. I saw it for the firsttime when I was in my mid
twenties and with my aunt Annewho lived in DC and who
considered the National Galleryto be hers. And every time you
(12:15):
visited aunt Anne, she wouldsay, is this not the most
beautiful city in the world? Andhere is all the beautiful art. I
was in my mid twenties, and Isaw this piece when I was with
Aunt Anne by Voulard, who isconsidered a lesser
impressionist, which is reallyrude, I think.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:34):
The actual title? Yes. Wow.
Kate DiCamillo (12:37):
And this little piece is called Repast in a
Garden, and it stopped me in mytracks. It's painted on
cardboard. I came back again andsaw it after my mom died, and I
was visiting my aunt, mybrother, I were to deliver my
mother's ashes back to where shewanted to be. So I was 44, and
(12:57):
the three of us went and lookedfor it and stood in front of
this painting. And then twoyears ago, I was in DC, and each
time it stopped me And it'sutter simplicity and and beauty
and light.
Like, when you see somethinglike that and it makes you stop,
it's the same as reading do youknow Anne Tyler? Yeah. She wrote
(13:21):
a book called The AccidentalTourist. Yeah. And there's this
beautiful part in there wheresomebody in the middle of the
night puts their hand on thescar
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (13:32):
Mhmm.
Kate DiCamillo (13:33):
And says, look. See? We all have scars. There's
just this beautiful, stunningmoment when I was in my twenties
when I read that and I thought,oh, that's what I wanna do. I
wanna make somebody feel the waythose words just made me feel.
I wanna make somebody feel theway looking at this painting
makes me feel. So it is it'slike the beauty makes me want to
(13:57):
try and create beauty. Mhmm.Can't paint, but I do know the
words protective coloration.Right?
And so, okay, maybe I could dosomething with words. Charlotte,
said Wilbur after a while. Whyare you so quiet? I like to sit
(14:21):
still, she said. I've alwaysbeen rather quiet.
Yes. But you seem especially sotoday. Do you feel alright? A
little tired perhaps, but I feelpeaceful. Your success in the
ring this morning was, to asmall degree, my success.
Your future is assured. You willlive secure and safe, Wilbur.
(14:44):
Nothing can harm you now. Theseautumn days will shorten and
grow cold. The leaves will shakeloose from the trees and fall.
Christmas will come, then thesnows of winter. You will live
to enjoy the beauty of thefrozen world, for you mean a
(15:05):
great deal to Zuckerman, and hewill not harm you ever. Winter
will pass. The days willlengthen. The ice will melt in
the pasture pond.
The song sparrow will return andsing. The frogs will awake. The
warm wind will blow again. Allthese sights and sounds and
(15:27):
smells will be yours to enjoy,Wilbur, this lovely world, these
precious days.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (15:39):
Just as she did in her first appearance on
this show, Kate read again fromEby White's classic Charlotte's
Web. Even after all this time,it remains the passage that does
it for her.
Kate DiCamillo (15:55):
It's such a profound promise, and it's one
of those things that, you know,Catherine Patterson had said
this, and I didn't encounter thequote until I had been writing
for kids for a while. But I feltit always that thing about how
you're duty bound when you writefor kids to end with hope. And,
(16:15):
you know, that that is thepromise. This passage is what is
implicit in everything that Itry to do. I don't consciously
think of that, but I think thathas to be theirs.
There is this thrum of hope thatneeds and must be in books for
(16:35):
kids that I rely on when I'mwriting for it to show up and
that the reader relies on for itto be there. And it is it's it's
a promise, and it's a reminder.Talk about beauty, this
beautiful world, these preciousdays. And that is true now even
(16:56):
though times are so difficult,and we need to be reminded
always.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:02):
Charlotte is such a beautiful character,
but it's bittersweet to love herbecause even as we read, we know
we're going to lose her. Kate'sreading for this episode had an
extra layer of resonance becauseher beloved dog, Ramona, had
recently passed on after manyyears of companionship. Kate and
I would sometimes exchange textmessages about our dogs. Mine,
(17:24):
Howie, looks a lot like Ramonadid. So I was really sad to
learn about Ramona's passing.
I'm thinking also about the lossof sweet Ramona, which
I know is, like, so impossibly hard last
year. Last year, has it been ayear?
Kate DiCamillo (17:40):
It no. Not even. Right? No. It hasn't been a
year.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:43):
Yeah. It's April. What in those moments,
what does that teach you or showyou about love?
Kate DiCamillo (17:52):
Oh, well, loving a dog is the primer for how to
be in the world because of, youknow, the differences and it's
like that joke, bought a dog.Congratulations. You've
purchased a tragedy.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (18:07):
I've never heard that, but that is very
accurate.
Kate DiCamillo (18:11):
Because they're you know, the numbers don't add
up our way. And so what you'reconfronted with that so starkly
when you lose a dog. And thefirst response is always, I'm
not gonna do that to myselfagain. I'm not gonna sign up for
that. And then it only takes aminute for the other voice to
(18:34):
say, well, what's the point inbeing here then if you're not
gonna love?
And it also so clearly shows youhow to love means that you are
going to lose. Full stop. And sowhat does that mean? You're not
gonna do it? You know?
It's like, again, what's thepoint in being here? I always
(18:58):
think about a guy that used tosit down by the coffee shop, and
I would walk by this is the dogbefore Ramona. It was Henry. And
he would always this guy wouldalways wanna show me the picture
of his dog that he lost twentyyears ago. And he was so
brokenhearted, and he couldn'tget another dog.
And I always wanted to say tohim, but now you've been twenty
years without a dog. And it'sjust like it's that math. It's
(19:22):
just like all those twenty yearsyou could have been loving a
dog. You know? You have to keepon loving.
It hurts, and it's everythingthat makes life worthwhile. And
dogs are just like the walkingarithmetic of that.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (19:39):
Loving her dog made it worthwhile even
though Kate knew that outlivingher pet was an inevitable cost
of their relationship. But whatabout the deaths we don't see
coming? The ones for which thereare no rationalizations. Just a
few weeks before thisconversation, Kate's home
neighborhood of Minneapolis borewitness to a senseless and
(19:59):
horrific mass shooting at theAnnunciation Catholic School.
And it was very much on my mindas Kate and I wrestled with the
topics of grief and hope.
I want to talk a little bit about a little
more down, but then we couldtalk about change.
Kate DiCamillo (20:17):
Sorry. Sorry. We're gonna we're gonna go we're
gonna go how low can you go?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:21):
I feel like right now this world yeah. I
don't feel I know that right nowthe world feels very heavy. It
feels very dreary, andespecially where you are. I was
thinking about you so muchduring the Annunciation Church
massacres, killing thosechildren. My childhood, like,
(20:41):
best friend Johnny, who was,like, down the street from me,
it was, his one of the littlegirls, Harper, who was shot
there or was killed was, like,his daughter's best friend.
Kate DiCamillo (20:51):
Oh my god.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:52):
Yeah. And he had written me to tell me how
much that little girl who waskilled reminded him of me. And
he had said I just said it to mywife the other night. I hadn't
spoken to him in twenty fiveyear in twenty years, really.
And I don't know.
Something I mean, obviously,like, you know, just because I I
realized, like, how desensitizedI think I have become.
Kate DiCamillo (21:10):
I doubt it. You know, do you wanna know what it
is a mile away from me. It'sright next to a grocery store,
Kowalski's, and, you know, thekids would get out, like, around
three if I happened to begrocery shopping, and they all
would say, hey to me. So the daythat it happened, I went up on
(21:31):
the street corner with acardboard sign that said, when
will a child's life be worthmore than an adult's right to
own a weapon of war? And thesign was very crowded and hard
to read as people drove by.
(21:51):
A lot of people stopped andsaid, what does your son say?
But I stood up there because Idid not I'm like at wit's end.
What to do? What to do, and Ican put my physical self up
there. And there were a lot ofpeople who were walking who just
stopped and we just held eachother.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (22:13):
How do you, like, pull yourself when those
moments come? Like moments ofdespair, which just feel so much
more frequent right now, how doyou still see beauty and awe?
And what like, how are youtapping into those things when
it can feel just so heavy?
Kate DiCamillo (22:33):
Well, part of it is other people, but I have a
responsibility to do what I cando. And part of what I can do is
find beauty and meaning and loveand connection through the
stories, and the stories go outinto the world. And, hopefully,
they provide those things toother people. So for me to wake
(22:58):
up the morning after that andthink, as any right thinking
person would think, what is thepoint in me going and sitting
down and trying to write thisstory? And then I have to
consciously will my way intothinking.
(23:18):
And it's hard to talk aboutbecause it sounds self
aggrandizing, but the books areout there. People find the
books. I know this in times ofgreat loss, great need, and read
them to each other, read them tothemselves, and find something.
And so if this is the thing thatI can do in the world, then I
(23:39):
need to do it. And in the doingof it, I find those things
myself, the beauty, the comfort.
So In the doing of it. In thedoing of it. Yeah. I
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (23:51):
think that resonates because I think people
say, and I find it's true that,you know, that the best the
antidote is to take action. Itcan be so hard.
Kate DiCamillo (24:02):
Which is why I walked up to the street corner
with my sign. Right? It's justlike it's what difference does
it make? But my body is gettingthe message
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:13):
Yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (24:13):
I'm doing something. I'm not just gonna
sit here and rock back andforth, which is what I wanna do.
I'm gonna walk up there.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:33):
I think last time we spoke, we were
celebrating one of theanniversaries of Despero, and
this time it's Winn Dixie. Andfor me, rereading those books,
you know, I'm so much moreemotional when I read them. I
think I already was when I readthem aloud to my children. You
know, you get this, like, wholeother experience as an adult
when I'm reading Winn Dixie. I'mthinking about it as, like,
(24:56):
okay.
I hope I hope that we did allthese things that we did. You
know, it's like everything issort of this feels like I'm
reading something in my pastnow. So twenty five years with
how you see yourself now and,like, all these different things
that have changed in your lifesince you wrote them, good and
bad, and where you're seeingbeauty, grief in that.
Kate DiCamillo (25:17):
It's funny because what I'm so aware of
with those books and then beingout in the world, it's that
thing that because people havenow grown up with those books
and the kids who had them readto them or read those books on
their own are now reading themto their kids or gifting them to
(25:41):
their kids. And it becomes thisthing of, like, in this moment
of all of us, like, collectivelyprocessing something with those
so I'm grateful that those booksexist because they give me the
language to talk about light,darkness, being impossibly small
(26:05):
in a terrifying world and stilltaking action, I can think about
Despero and think I amimpossibly small, but I can be
brave like that mouse was brave.And Opal and Winn Dixie we did
this thing here in Minneapolisat the Riverview Theater, which
(26:25):
is this older, wonderfultheater, and we did an
anniversary showing of themovie. And there's this
wonderful moment at the end wheneverybody's in Gloria Dump's
living room. And Opal is lookingaround, and you can see on her
face, oh, I did this.
Yeah. I brought all these peopletogether.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (26:47):
Yeah.
Kate DiCamillo (26:47):
It comforts me, you know? And that's how it was
doing the event. The theaterholds 700 people. It didn't seem
like 700 people. It just seemedlike this community of people.
We were, you know, holding eachother kind of, you know.
Gathered. You're gathered. Yeah.Gathered.
Yeah.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:05):
I thought a lot about that in rereading that
book. Just this idea, which I'vebeen thinking and trying to,
like, bring more into my lifenow is gathering and bringing
just being together, beingtogether with people, reminding
yourself of what is human andwhat is good and And what is
real. And what is real.
Kate DiCamillo (27:25):
Yep. What is real. Yep. Which is the other
thing about going out there withyour physical self and gathering
with your physical self.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:33):
You've talked about writing toward
wholeness, writing toward that.Do you feel that, like,
continuing to sort of, like,happen for you? Do you feel that
more and more with every bookthat you're writing? That's a
good question.
Kate DiCamillo (27:45):
Yeah. And it actually like, it takes me back
to, like, the moon this morning,awe, and that thing of zooming
out. Mhmm. And so that fullnessand wholeness is just like it's
less and less and less and lessabout me and more about, like,
this kind of thing of it's justthe zooming out, and it's way
(28:10):
way beyond me and my smallconcerns, you know.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:22):
While we don't have a reading challenge
for these second chapterconversations, we do still have
our Beanstack feature librariansand this week's is once again
Chelsea Pisani, an incrediblechildren's librarian at Maple
Valley Branch Library in Akron,Ohio. This time, she shares her
secret sauce for igniting a loveof reading in all of the kids at
(28:46):
her branch.
Chelsea Pisani (28:51):
So my secret sauce when it comes to getting
kids to being excited aboutreading is I let them pick. I
ask like, hey, what do you wantto read about? And I had the
kids in the beginning of theschool year do a little survey.
And they said, want books wherethe kids look like us, real
stories. They pick what craftswe do, what books we pick.
(29:15):
Yeah. And I think just reallycreativity trying to figure out
and meet the kids where they'reat. I'm always trying something
new. I tried bibliotherapy withthe kids and I created kids,
everybody goes through things.So I had themed books in little
bins, boxes.
I made this big display onshelves. Put the books by themes
(29:35):
whether it's stress, body image,consent, and from picture books
to graphic novels to chapterbooks and just showing kids the
power of fiction and how thepower of stories can be healing
too. I put them front and centerwith my new books and I ended up
having to expand the displaybecause so many people like
(29:57):
loved them. They were takinghandfuls of the books. Like the
kids really really loved it.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:07):
This has been the reading culture and
you've been listening to myconversation with the one and
only Kate DiCamillo again I'myour host Jordan Lloyd Bookie
and currently I'm reading air offire by Sarah j Maas and Dear
Manny by Nick Stone. If youenjoyed today's episode, please
show some love and give us afive star or even better, a
(30:28):
written review whether you'relistening on Apple or Spotify,
any other platform. It all helpsto make sure that this episode
is listened to by more and morepeople. So thank you, thank you
so much for taking the time todo that. I really appreciate it.
To learn more about how you canhelp grow your community's
reading culture, check out allof our resources at
(30:49):
beanstack.com and remember tosign up for our newsletter at
the readingculturepod.comforward slash newsletter for
special offers and a lot ofbonus content this episode was
produced by Mel Webb and lowerstreet media and script edited
by Josiah Lamberto Egan. Thanksfor listening and keep reading.
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