We Are Always Rising: Andrea Davis Pinkney Spreads Stories and Hope

Episode Transcript
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Andrea Davis Pinkney (00:04):
What I'm essentially doing is I'm
reaching out a hand to a child,and I'm I'm inviting them in.
I'm kind of gently taking themby the hand and saying, come on
in.

Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:15):
What draws a child into a story? What
convinces them to keep readingpast the first page? Andrea
Davis Pinkney says she makes adeal with every reader who picks
up one of her books.

I am saying, reader, we're going on a
journey. You are going to comewith me, and then I'm pulling
them gently into the narrative.And then again, if I'm doing my
job, I'm holding them like ahug.

Andrea Davis Pinkney is a New York
Times bestselling author knownfor her books for children and
young adults, including The RedPencil, Sit In, Because of You,
John Lewis, Let It Shine, andmany, many others. A winner of
the Coretta Scott King BookAward and 4 time NAACP Image

(01:04):
Award nominee, Andrea's booksweave narratives that honor
black history and inspirereaders with themes of courage
and community. In this episode,Andrea tells us about the page
one pack she makes with youngreaders. She recounts how her
experience with social justicework began in the womb and how

(01:24):
she won a middle school writingcontest without even entering.
Plus, she explains how changinga burger into a donut became a
matter of journalistic integrityin one of her books.
My name is Jordan Lloyd Bookey,and this is The Reading Culture,
the show where we speak withdiverse authors about ways to
build a stronger culture ofreading in our communities. We

(01:46):
dive deep into their personalexperiences and inspirations.
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(02:12):
All right.
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I interviewed Andrea on the dayafter our recent presidential
election. Very much on my mindthat morning was a passage I'd
heard her read in 2021, justdays before Joe Biden and Kamala

(03:19):
Harris were sworn in aspresident and vice president.
Andrea, at that time, read fromher book, Martin Rising, which
is about the last months ofMartin Luther King Junior's
life, and I remember vividly thepower and optimism in her voice
as she read these words from herbook. Can a dream ever die? A

(03:42):
burst of sun replies, his lifewell lived for peace and good,
Martin's spirit still alive, andwith love we all shall rise.
So I asked her how those wordsfrom 2021 sounded to her now at
this crossroads moment in 2024.There is always hope on the

(04:05):
horizon.

There is always hope in tomorrow. And as
someone who creates stories foryoung people, that's where the
hope lies. You know, a story isforever, and it is one of the
the many gifts that bring ustogether, that promise a new
beginning, and that let us knowtomorrow will come, and we will

(04:29):
be here to meet it. And it's oneof the reasons I love what I do.
It's one of the reasons I lovestorytelling.
I love to be the beneficiary ofstories, and, there's joy and
power in storytelling, and andthat's why I do it.

Yeah. I like that. There's always always
hope in the horizon, intomorrow, even if tomorrow's a
little longer away, furtheraway. I've read that your
childhood was largely shaped byif you wanna talk a little bit
about your your summers, whichsound, you know, not you aren't
going to the beach. So maybesort of talk about that, and,

(05:07):
yeah, your parents sort

of role as role models. So I grew up in
Washington DC. Let me just kindof roll it back a little bit and
say that my dad, the late PhilipJ. Davis, was one of the first
African American interns to workin the House of Representatives.
So and that was in 1959.
And his goal was to learn aboutthe inner workings of, Congress,

(05:32):
essentially. He was a student atHoward University, a
historically black college, and,as was my mom. And so that was
my orientation to, you know,really civil rights. I mean, he
was he was at the March onWashington, and, my mom was not

(05:53):
allowed to attend the March onWashington in August of 1963
because she was pregnant withme. So the doctor said, well,
you can't go down with thoseother, you know, in the
sweltering heat of Washington DCwith 250,000 people.
But dad was there, right downwith all the marchers. And so,
that was my orientation. And andwe joke now as a family that I

(06:13):
was in my mommy's tummy, but Iwas real she was watching it.
She was watching it ontelevision.

You've heard her.

I somehow heard that. You know? I I really
got the importance of it. And somy summers were spent because my
parents were also very active inthe NAACP, and that was
summertime. You know?
That was you get in the stationwagon and you go to you know,
your summer was the NAACPNational Convention, then the

(06:39):
National Urban LeagueConference, and then we would
roll into, you know, later inthe summer towards September, it
would be the Congressional BlackCaucus. So on and on from there.
And, you know, other kids wereat camp and the beach and flying
a kite or whatever, and there Iwas in that station wagon. I
mean, just it's laughable now.Like, I was watching history

(07:02):
unfold, but kinda just there.
Like, not I don't wanna saydreading it, but just like Yeah.
Like, wow. This is like there'sJesse Jackson giving a speech.
You know? And I'm I'm kinda

like, boy. Is this over? When's this over?
Right? Right.
Exactly.

Like I

mean, that's natural for a kid. Yeah.
Yeah.

Where's my kite? You know? And that was my
kite. That was my kite, youknow, that I was being lifted up
by the words of, you know, somany notables that history was
in the making, and, of course,now I realize it kind of in the
rearview mirror.

What was storytelling like in your home?
Was it a big part of yourchildhood?

I grew up in the oral tradition, so
storytelling was a very big partof my childhood. Front porches,
backyards, picnics, dining roomtable. My dad was a master
storytelling. I don't know thathe would have thought of it that
way, but the unspoken rule inthe Davis household was that you

(08:04):
would come to the table fordinner, and you better be
prepared with a great story. Andwhat I mean by that is a great
story could come out of aneveryday situation.
In the case of my dad, who wouldkick it off, it was finding a
parking space. It was the lineat the grocery store. It was

(08:26):
buying a mop, and that everydayactivity included characters,
included dialogue, oftenincluded humor. And so that's
what I grew up in, that you cometogether, tell a story, often
have a laugh, and feel greatafterward. You know, you build

(08:50):
community around the tablethrough storytelling.

You remember that from, like, even a
really young age, like, feelinglike you had to do your part, I
had to share your story too?

Yes. Yes. And I I caught on very early
that, you know, what happened tome today. And then as the day
would unfold as a child, I wouldmake note of things and think,
oh, this is gonna be great fortonight. This is gonna be
terrific.
Something about pushing in mychair at at at school, you know,
into my desk, or reading a newbook, or making a new friend, or

(09:20):
petting a puppy, it made mestart to think of my day in
terms of the wonderful littletrinkets and gifts and
opportunities that I had to turnsomething into a great story.

Yeah. Like, every little thing can be a
great story.

Everything is a story. Yes, that's right.

Yeah. Do you think you've kept that eye
for observation, like that, kindof with you

throughout the years? I absolutely did, and
that was supported by, again, mydad who got me my first notebook
when I was in the 2nd grade.When I was that age, 2 important
things happened. So importantthing number 1 was that I
integrated my elementary school.And I remember the very first

(10:03):
day going to school, my dad heldmy hand, and I remember feeling
just the gravity of the moment,the monumental opportunity and
anxiety that I felt.
So he was escorting me to thefront door and sensing that this

(10:25):
was not going to be easy, thiswas going to be a hard
situation, he presented me withmy first notebook. And it wasn't
the notebook that was on theschool supplies list. It wasn't
the notebook every other studenthad. It was my notebook. And he
said, I want you to writeeverything in this notebook.

(10:49):
You're happy, you're sad, yourfrustrations, you're glad, your
new friend, the sidewalk, thesunshine, the peanut butter and
jelly sandwich, put it all inthere. And that was the second
great thing that happened, thatI got that notebook, and he

(11:10):
referred to it as gateway andsanctuary. And I I didn't know
what that meant then. Of course,I know now that my own ability
to observe the world, to expressmy feelings on the page in my
own private sanctuary of anotebook was a gateway to my own

(11:37):
personal freedom and a gatewaythat said, you have stories to
tell. You can share them onthese pages.
And that was a great gift. Doyou remember some of

the early things that you wrote about in
that journal?

Yes. Yes. I remember. I remember I wrote
about my cat. I had a cat namedMickey, so I wrote about my cat.
And I wrote about the cat havinga litter. I remember that. I
wrote about the first friend Iever met at that school, a girl
named Rhonda, who befriended me.I remember, the desk I had,

(12:12):
which was the kind of desk wherethe desk and the chair were
connected. And I rememberwriting about the frustration of
why would they connect a deskand a chair.
Like, you can't scoot it out.You can't so I I remember
writing about that. So sure.Sure. I I remember cataloging
the situations in my day andthen building on them, building

(12:36):
a a dialogue around it, buildingthe conversation I had with my
friend, Rhonda, making anobservation about my kitty cat
whose tummy was getting bigger.
The notebook was the permissionto get that all down. Were you a
big reader? I was a big readerof adult fiction, interestingly
enough. Even in middle school?Yeah.
And that is because those arethe books that we had in our

(12:57):
home. So, you know, both myparents were avid readers. So
there was Toni Morrison. Therewas Maya Angelou. There was
Chayampotok.
You know, all those books. So Iwould see her read it, and then
I would I would look at it. Iwould read it. So my mom was a
very avid fiction reader, and myfather was a very avid
nonfiction reader, so I wouldread his books too about

(13:20):
government and history andscience and and all that. So I
you know, again, kids do whatthey see their parents doing.
I read what they read.

Those books, along with the notebook
Andrea's father gave her, actedas safe havens for her. Even in
middle school, Andrea was alwaysone of only a handful of black
students. So I asked her how herclassmates treated her. Were
there any kind or especiallyunkind students? And she
described it even more subtlythan that.

They were neither welcoming nor
unwelcoming. They were, kind ofdetached and disinterested. So
it's lonely in a way. You're notinvited. You know, the ridicule
is very subtle.
You know, you overhear theridicule, and it's very subtle,

(14:10):
but it was more being ignored.So, like, you have nothing to do
with us. So you're not we're notgonna bring you into this fold
because you have nothing to dowith us. So but I I will say
that I have the same best friendfrom the 8th grade. Her name is
Tina.
You know, we're both middle agedladies now, and we have been

(14:31):
friends all these years. Wow.And we've stayed friends, and
our lives have gone in manydifferent directions. And we
stay in touch. We send Christmascards and birthday cards and
email each other, and so that'sbeen a lifelong friend,
essentially.
And that's because she is, Tinais, and and was a reader, and

(14:53):
we've connected over books. Oh.

Billy Allen (14:56):
You know?

I think it was a happenstance connection.
She had a book. I like thecover. You get to talking, and

here we are. Like a book club of 2.
Right. That's pretty cool. Wereyou always I think you have a
you read as a person who, like,I think you seem small in
stature.
I've never met you, but youappear to be at least next to
that picture of Jason Reynolds.

Yes. Yes.

Which I guess everyone is.

I'm 411. If I go on my tippy toes, I can
probably get to 5 1.

And so small in stature, but you exude,
like, 10 feet tall, I think,with your voice and your words.
And I don't know. Were youalways were you always kinda
like that? Did you always, like,take up space like that?

No. No. Not at all. And I'm under 5
feet. You know, I say, you know,short person, big mouth.
You know? But, no. So, no, I wasnot always like that. I was the
shy kid. Some of that wasbecause, again, I was the only
bright kid of color in myschool.
But so I was very shy. I was,you know, just the quiet one,

(15:58):
but observing. What happened tome was when I was in the 6th
grade, there was a writingcontest at my school. I did not
enter the contest. I know Ididn't because I wasn't a great
student.
I mean, you know, grammar andspelling and whatever was not my
cup of tea. But I believe tothis day that my teacher got my

(16:21):
story out of my not my ownprivate notebook, but out of, I
guess, the school notebook.Yeah. And I think that she
probably entered it unbeknownstto me. So the day came, and it
was time to announce the winnerof the 6th grade elementary
school story writing contest.
I remember we were all filedinto the gym, and it was the

(16:42):
bleachers. And I was kind ofhalf paying attention because
this really didn't pertain tome. Right. You didn't enter.
Didn't enter the contest, sowhatever.
You know? And they called myname. They called my name. I was
at the top of the bleachers. Ihad to come down to collect my
prize.
And and as you can imagine, Iwas completely baffled. And my

(17:02):
my story was about a man, afigure, that was made of fire,
and his limbs and his body andhis everything were made of
flames. In the store, he becomesa sprinter, and the faster he's
running, he becomes moreilluminated. Like, the flames
get bigger. Now looking back,I'm like, wow.

(17:25):
Like, that little girl neededsome counseling. That's, like,
clearly some anxiety going onthere.

Getting out of that school.

Okay. Yeah. But it won the contest.
And the prize was that my familyI I got to take my whole family
out to dinner at the Red Lobsterrestaurant. Oh, yeah.

You got those cheese rolls. Cheese
rolls, that lobster. I mean,

you know, everything. Yeah. I remember
looking around like, this isgreat. I am feeding my family
with a story that I wrote. Butin in answer to your question
about always did I always havesuch a big mouth?
No. But that situation, it justpeeled it open for me. I will

(18:07):
always remember when the starsfell down around me and lifted
me up above the GeorgeWashington Bridge. I could see
our tiny rooftop with mommy anddaddy and mister and missus
Honey, our next door neighbors,still playing cards as if
nothing was going on, and BB, mybaby brother, lying real still

(18:29):
on the mattress, just like Itold him to, his eyes like huge
floodlights tracking me throughthe sky. Sleeping on Tar Beach
was magical.
Lying on the roof in the nightwith stars and skyscraper
buildings all around me made mefeel rich, like I owned all that

(18:50):
I could see. The bridge was mymost prized possession.

That passage comes from Tar Beach by
Faith Ringgold. She passed awayearlier this year in April 2024.
Faith Ringgold was a pioneering,larger than life artist who is
best known for her quilts,textiles, and paintings. She
wrote and illustrated Tar Beachback in 1991, and nearly 3

(19:19):
decades later, it is stillAndrea's favorite picture book.

The first time I read Tar Beach was as an
adult, and, I was reading it toa child. I saw the book, and,
you know, we all know now andlove the the beautiful
storytelling of of FaithRinggold. It had won a Caldecott
Honor and a Coretta Scott KingAward, and I got the book and

(19:44):
thought this is the book I'mgonna share with the children in
my life.

And I have. Did you ever meet Faith
Ringgold?

Yes. Yes, actually. I work as a children's
book editor, and I edited acouple of Faith's books.

Oh, really?

And had many opportunities to spend time
with her at her home and

What was her home like? So is it as
colorful as one might imagineit? Yes. Faith Ringgold lived

in New Jersey. Her home was full of art
and color and beauty and andeverything. She had a a a dining
room table, and all of thechairs at her dining room, at
least then when I would visither, had on the back of the seat
were hand painted images ofCassie, the girl from Atar

(20:27):
Beach, who's extended like she'sin flight. I always didn't wanna
sit in the chairs. You know?
Like, wow. Like, I'm sitting ona painting, you know, these hand
painted chairs, you know, byFaith Ringgold. So, yes, I I had
the privilege and pleasure of ofknowing her and spending time
with her and sharing a laughevery now and then.

Andrea's writing career actually began in
journalism. She was inspired byfictional figures like John Boy
from the seventies TV series TheWaltons.

I loved that part of the show where he
would open with commentary onlife a life on Walton's Mountain
and close with that, and hewould you'd see him writing
throughout the show. And thenlater as the show got older and
went on, when it was ending itskind of run, he ultimately did
end up leaving Walton's Mountainto go work at a newspaper. And
Mary Richards from the MaryTyler Moore Show. Mary Richards

(21:23):
worked at WJM in Minneapolis inin Minnesota. She was a
journalist.
She was a broadcast journalist.She ultimately ended up in the
show, producing the news. And Iwas glued to that show. I was
glued to it. And I thought, if Icould have ripped off the front

(21:45):
of my television and steppedonto the set of WJM and hung out
with Mary Tyler Moore, I wouldhave done it.
And I thought that's what Ilike, I wanted to meld those 2
ideas. John Boy the storyteller,Mary Tyler Moore, she's a career
woman. She lives in a big city.She's very independent. Yeah.
And I'll I'll just say that Iremember the last episode of the

(22:08):
Mary Tyler Moore Show. Theseries was ending and, Mary
closes the door to WJM and thelights go out and the credits go
like, even thinking about it,now I'm getting misty. And I was
a kid watching. I never missedan episode. I knew the show was
ending, and I burst into tears.
Oh. When she closed that door onthat newsroom, I was bawling.

(22:33):
And that led me to becoming I Iwanna be just like Mary.

I did ask her, and she told me that she
goes to visit that statue inMinneapolis every time she
visits. But during Andrea's timeas a magazine editor, she began
to notice that there wassomething missing from the
stories landing on her desk.

One of my early journalistic careers,
which was just such a blessing,is that I was a senior editor at
Essence Magazine, and EssenceMagazine is the premier consumer
magazine for black women. So Iimmediately found Community, and
I was the lifestyle editor,which included a lot of

(23:17):
different things. So I oversaw asection of the magazine that
included pieces on, I mean,anything having to do with
lifestyle, you know, home,family, parenting. And there was
one aspect of it that was thegame changer for me. So it was
my responsibility to create sothis was the year 1986, to

(23:39):
create a regular roundup ofchildren's books for parents and
families featuring black people,black stories, blackness, I
could not, on a consistentbasis, fill the section.
Mhmm. And I remember the day theeditor in chief, Susan l Taylor,

(24:02):
sent me a note and said, Andre,come on. Like, remember, you
gotta fill this section. Andafter I was had filled it, you
know, with books by the amazingWalter Dean Myers and Anne
Virginia Hamilton and EloiseGreenfield and all of that, you
know, to continue to do it on aconsistent basis, there was just
a dearth of content. I couldn'tfind it.
And I would I would say topeople, Do you know anybody at

(24:25):
this, this, or that publisher?And I would say, I would plead.
I would say, well, we need apopular middle grade series for
girls. We need board books forbabies. We need picture book
biographies.
We need something that a 9 yearold African American boy, you
know, the mom of a 9 year oldAfrican American boy can give to
her son. Didn't exist, could notfind it. And it was one of those

(24:48):
things, like actually, ToniMorrison said it. You know? If
you can't find it, create it.
My husband, Brian Pinkney, who'sa children's book illustrator, I
would come home and I would justbe kinda mad. You know? Yeah.
And, he would say, well, thenyou need to do it. You need to
write it.
And so, again, that was thereason I became a member of the

(25:12):
Society of Children's BookWriters and Illustrators. I was
like, well, I don't I don't meanI'm I'm a journalist. Like, I
don't know how to write a abook, you know, for a child. But
again, I realized having gone tojournalism school, I had some of
those skills, which is to writewith the economy and to engage a

(25:34):
reader quickly, like you do in ain a newspaper, and to come up
with a title that is kind of alittle bit of a sticky message,
and to tell something in a shortamount of space, give me a
beginning, a middle, and an end.So that is a picture book.
Yeah. So I I just kinda dove inthe pool, not really knowing
what I was doing, you know, andand learn from and also reading

(25:57):
a lot of writers and how theywere doing it. And it was out of
my own desire, again, because Icouldn't fill the section of the
magazine, to see more of thosebooks that was the igniter.

It turns out Andrea's journalistic
training did more than give hera jumping off point for her
career pivot From crafting thefirst page of a book to making a
nail biting call just momentsbefore publishing, Andrea, the
author, relies on many of theprinciples she learned in
journalism.

Yes. So one of the 2 of the key
takeaways that I kinda came awaywith in journalism school was
something that I now call, hook,pull, hold. So what I'm
essentially doing is I'mreaching out a hand to a child.
I'm inviting them in. I'm gentlytaking them by the hand and

(26:50):
saying, come on in.
And then I'm pulling them gentlyinto the narrative. And then,
again, if I'm doing my job, I'mholding them like a hug in an in
an embrace. That's one kind oftool that I use. And the other
one which supports that issomething that I call the page
one pact. So the page one pactis this.

(27:11):
It is that by virtue of what Iput on page 1, I am making a
deal with the reader. And if I'mhonoring the pact, if I'm
holding up my end of thebargain, I am saying, reader,
we're going on a journey. Youare going to come with me, and

(27:31):
after a while, you because I'mgonna invite you in because of
what I put on page 1. And aftera while, you're not even gonna
know you're reading. There's abook you're not gonna know
because I've honored the packfrom what you've seen on page 1,
and you're you're along with me.
And, you know, with youngpeople, especially those who are
emerging readers, who don'treally have an interest in

(27:54):
reader reading, they have theopportunity right away. Like, I
have a nanosecond with thatchild. I have a nanosecond with
every child, with everybody. Youknow? I have a nanosecond.
And I teach MFA students in inwriting for children. And I
always say, you know how youhear when people say, oh, no.
No. It's a great book. You justgotta get to chapter 9.

(28:17):
Yes. It's really good. No. Iknow. It starts out slow.

Adults might do it. Right? Adults might
do it. Well, you know, but,yeah, kids know.

No way. You know, middle grade novel and
11 year old. That thinking,they're gone, especially now
with the age of everything. Youknow, so much media and all of
that. I have a nanosecond, so Ihave to honor the page 1 pack
and get them in.

Like, a nanosecond or maybe less. You
know? No. For real, I love that.And it's interesting because so
much of your writing, especiallyI just read The Red Pencil, is
steeped in a lot of research.
You know? Or I'm thinking of,like, your Alvin Ailey
biography, which is a personalfavorite for me, and Flo, my
daughter. You always have theselovely author notes that really

(29:00):
reveal this absolute rainbow ofpeople and sources that have
gone into creating this, youknow, rather short book a lot of
the time. Right? So I'm struckby your, ability to take so much
truth and research and thendistill that into something that
still really hooks a youngaudience but also respects their

(29:22):
intelligence and their abilityto chew on some big issues.
You know?

Right. Right. Well, so that's the other
thing is when you write for anewspaper, you better lock those
facts down. So the research isessential. And when I wrote the
book The Red Pencil, which isabout a 12 year old girl, Amira,
in the year 2004 in Sudan, andthe war is going on.

(29:47):
And I had traveled extensivelyin Africa, you know, as an
author and visited schools andspoke to children and families.
And so many people said, youhave got to tell this story. So
Amira can't read or write. She's12, and she is dissuaded from
learning to read or writebecause in certain traditional

(30:08):
cultures, it's believed that,you know, boys should be the
ones to go to school and thatgirls should get married. So so
I did a lot of research forthat.
And, another book that was Imean, all my books are heavily
researched because I am ajournalist and I'm writing
nonfiction is a book called SitIn, How 4 Friends Stood Up by
Sitting Down. And it's a picturebook about the February 1, 1960

(30:32):
Greensboro, North CarolinaWoolworths sit ins, the
nonviolent protest by 4students. So I I bring that book
up because it is veryresearched. I spoke to so many
students and people and who werein those sit ins and and all of
that. But the narrative refraininitially was they sat straight

(30:55):
and proud and waited and wanteda burger with Coke and fries on
the side.
Okay. So the book is now theartwork is done by Brian
Pinkney. It's on its way to beprinted on a printing plant in a
foreign land. And we'veresearched. We've had scholars.

(31:15):
We've had civil rights people.Everything is t's crossed, i's
dotted. We're good. At the 11thhour, my editor calls me up. She
says, Andrea, we have justdiscovered that on February 1,
1960 in Greensboro, NorthCarolina, those 4 students did

(31:36):
not order a burger and Coke withfries on the side.
You have to change it. So I waslike, really? Wow. I was like,
how did we find that out? Shesays, it's documented.
We didn't get it before, but wehave that information now. And I
joked to her. I said, how didsomebody remember that? I said,
I don't know what I had forlunch yesterday. I literally
can't remember.

(31:56):
She's we I mean, she said, Iknow.

Mhmm. Probably remember it if it's
thrown on you.

But You know? Right. Right. Exactly. So
it's you know, like in themovies where they say stop the
presses.
You know? That does not happenin real life. In publishing
land,

you

don't just stop the presses. You can't. But
we did. So what happened was itall the artwork that was about
to be printed was shipped backto Brian Pinkney. Wow.
I had to retool the whole thing.Now you would think, okay.
What's the big deal? You swapout Burger and Coke, and you put
in what they did order, whichwas a doughnut and coffee with

(32:33):
cream on the side. You think, nobiggie.
It's not that easy. It it's likea sweater. You you have to
unravel the whole thing and reknit it. And then Brian had to
redo the art to indicate therewas there were donuts and coffee
and and all of that. And, I waslike, yeah.
I'm a creator of nonfiction. Istand by my research. Thank

(32:56):
goodness it was caught beforethe book was printed, and here
it is. You know? And and when Ivisit schools and kids have read
it and they've been prepared bytheir teachers, they know the
refrain.
They they say it with me. Youknow? A donut and coffee with
cream on the side. So thankgoodness they're not reciting,
yo, a burger and Coke with frieson the side because that's not

(33:16):
right.

Right. You want them to have that what's
what's real. Yeah. So theyreally did get that all back to
you. They did.
I think that rigor, thatcommitment is so because because
I think there's, like, a choicethat you could have made. Right?
There's probably a choice thereto be, like, let it go. Who's
gonna ask this question? Right?

That's never the choice. And and if
it's been printed already, youcorrect it immediately in
reprints. Right. Right. Reprintsit.
You you immediately make areprint request, and you correct
it.

Yeah. Absolutely. And the authenticity
piece is so important. You know?And it's making me think now
about the work that you're doingas a curator, adding another job
to the list of jobs and thingsthat you do have done,
librettist.
I don't know. Your the list goeson for you, Andrea. Maybe you
could tell me more about theexhibit that you worked on slash

(34:06):
are working on at the Kerlan .

The exhibition at the
is called Journey to Joy. Andit's called Journey to Joy, the
rise, relevance, andrepresentation of children's
books. And I was just so pleasedto be invited by the head
curator at the Curlin, Lisa VanDreesick, who, invited me to

(34:31):
serve as a curatorial consultantwith her and her amazing team to
create this exhibition thatreally chronicles the history of
representation in children'sbooks and, you know, coming,
like, kinda like what it waslike, what happened, and where
we are now. And one of the keycomponents of the exhibition is

(34:51):
that it celebrates the winnersof the Ezra Jack Keith's picture
book award, which is known for,you know, ushering in new new
diverse talent. And they almosthave, like, this unmistakable,
crystal ball because many of thebooks that are Ezra Jack Heat's
award winners, they just kindago on to like, win Caldecott's

(35:12):
and Coretta Scott King Awards,and those those creators, you
know, they have good eye.
Whoever those Yeah. Brilliantcommittee is, they go on to
become just superstars of of theindustry. So it's just been a
pleasure to work with theKerlan. And, again, it's another
way that we can invite people inthrough the joy and power of
picture books and also theexhibition itself to come into a

(35:32):
space, a a library, a museum,and, enjoy some of the original
artwork and some of theartifacts and some of the behind
the scenes and some of thehistorical context all in one
place.

So at the beginning of our interview, you
mentioned like you said, there'salways hope for tomorrow as
you're feeling even at this timeof it's just this dichotomy of
things. Right? Because there's adissonance between the amount of
diverse children's literaturethat is here and then the number
of, you know, book challenges,and that's like a lot of the
news is sort of very negative,you know, around diversity in
children's literature too. Whatis your thesis or thought in

(36:08):
that arc around diversity inchildren's literature?

Well, the journey to joy exhibition is
actually a great example of thefact that there is joy. We are
always rising. There's alwaysrelevance, and, you know, we
always need to have therepresentation. So when you see
all of those books in one placeand all of those images and all
of those covers and all of thoseillustrations and all of that

(36:33):
creation and all of thatstorytelling at the Kerlan, but
really anywhere, when you seeit, you see that we have an
undeniable treasure trove ofstorytelling, and it's only
going to grow. It's only goingto grow.
Stories grow. They live onforever, and you you can't tamp

(36:54):
them down. You can try, but it'snot possible. Because, again, if
we kind of go back to, you know,my own tradition of oral history
and oral storytelling, thosestories will live on forever as
long as you can tell them andshare them. And that's what
we're here to do is to tellthem, share them, and let them

(37:16):
bring us together.

As you may have already noticed from her
reading of a donut and coffeewith cream on the side, Andrea
loves rhythm in her writing, andthat's why her reading
challenge, rhythm and muse, is acollection of stories that
embrace this same sense ofrhythm and musicality. This
reading challenge was so muchfun, and

it really made me think. You know, it
includes so many of myfavorites. It includes Her
Stories by Virginia Hamilton.And I let me just say, I went
back and read all these books.You know, as I really thought
about it, it was hard to keep itto 10 because there's so many
books that have great rhythm andmake me want to reflect and,
think about things.
So Her Story by VirginiaHamilton, illustrated by the

(38:01):
Dylans, is full of rhythm. It'sfull of musicality. It's full
of, again, stories based on oralhistories and, it's just one of
those modern classics that'sjust stood the test of time. So
there's another book that's afavorite. It's called We Dream A
World, and it's by Yolanda ReneeKing.
Yolanda Renee King is the onlygrandchild of doctor Martin

(38:24):
Luther King Junior and CorettaScott King. She is now a a
teenager. When she wrote thebook, she had just delivered a
speech at the March For OurLives Against Gun Violence and,
talked about her hope for afuture. And so what I love about
We Dream A World is that she herher kind of battle cry that she

(38:47):
delivered at the March For OurLives is in the book. And she
says, spread the word.
Have you heard all across thenation? We are going to be a new
generation. And I'm like, yeah,Yolanda. You are gonna be a new
generation, and that's where welook forward.

You can find Andrea's reading challenge
and all past reading challengesat the reading culture pod.com.
Speaking of rhythm, thisepisode's Beanstack featured
librarian is Billy Allen, aka 3King Visions on YouTube and all

(39:28):
around all star librarian. He isalso the branch manager of
Whitney Library for Las VegasClark County Library District
and is so spectacular. For thisfeature, he tells us about his
musical approach to excitingkids about reading.

My secret sauce is using music. Everybody connects
through music, and I always liketo ask them what you're
listening to. And they'd bepulling on the headphones, take
out the AirPods. They're like,I'm listening to this and this.
And I'm like, okay.
What are you reading? Oh, Iain't reading that. And I said,
how about this? Let's go lookand walk through the library.
And I'm like, you know what?
You can read this book to thatsong. And one of my favorite

(40:09):
teens, King. He's 16. Well, hejust turned 17. He like, mister
Billy, I'm glad you showed methis because I used to hate
reading.
And now he's showing his friendslike, this is what I can do. And
I think even with my librarianswhere, you know, I tell them, I
said, look, find your style.There's no wrong way of
conducting a story time abouthelping kids get engaged with

(40:31):
reading. So my secret sauce isthe music, but also developing
relationships. And I think it'sso cliche to say that
relationship's key to life,life, but it's the key for the
community.
If you want to inspire them toread, you know, I'm very
intentional when I walk throughmy library. I speak to
everybody. And I want people toknow I'm here from them. And

(40:54):
that goes a long way when you belike, hey, you should check out
this book. You know, hey, youknow, you should check out black
boy be you, you know, to to theparents.
And they're like, wow. Okay. Hereally cares. So one of my
superpowers is just engagingwith the community.

This has been The Reading Culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Andrea Davis
Pinkney. Again, I'm your host,Jordan Lloyd Bookey. And
currently, I'm reading Babble byRF Kuang and Little Leaders,
Exceptional Men in Black Historyby Vashti Harrison. If you enjoy
today's episode, please show ussome love and take an extra few

(41:35):
seconds to give us that 5 starreview. And if you have another
10 seconds, go ahead and putsome words in there too.
I really appreciate it. It doesactually make a big difference,
especially on Spotify and ApplePodcasts. So thank you. Thank
you for doing that. I know I askweek after week, and I really
appreciate you.
This episode was produced byJackie Lamport, Wanyi Li, and

(41:57):
Lower Street Media, and scriptedited by Josiah Lamberto Egan.
To learn more about how you canhelp grow your community's
reading culture, please checkout all of our resources at
beanstack.com. And remember tosign up for our newsletter at
the reading culture pod dot comforward slash newsletter for
special offers and contests andbonus content. Thanks for

(42:19):
listening and keep reading.

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