October 29, 2025 • 37 mins
“It’s that old expression that I love, which is ‘wherever you go, there you are.’ So you never really get out of the limbo, because the limbo is you.” — Erin Entrada Kelly
There are seasons when life slows down, even as our minds continue to race. When we find ourselves caught somewhere between motion and stillness, haunted by what came before and reaching for what’s next.
That tension has become deeply personal for Erin Entrada Kelly. After an aggressive cancer diagnosis, Erin found herself living in a space between who she was and who she was becoming.
A two-time Newbery Medal winner, best known for “Hello, Universe,” “We Dream of Space,” and “First State of Being,” Erin has always written stories that reveal the quiet courage of ordinary kids. But lately, her life–and her writing– have taken on a new kind of gravity.
In this episode, You Can’t Just Move On: Erin Entrada Kelly on Limbo, Erin returns to the show for a “Second Chapter” conversation. This time, Erin reflects on recovery, rest, and redefining momentum. She shares how illness has reshaped her creative process, the surprising calm she’s found in cinematic ASMR, and a haunting true story from a hotel in New Orleans that might just make you believe in ghosts.
Settle in for an honest, tender conversation about living in the in-between.
***
http://thereadingculturepod.com/erin-entrada-kelly-second-chapter
This week’s Beanstack Featured Librarian is Kimberly Thompson, the library media specialist at East Side Middle School in Bullock County, Kentucky. After all that talk about being stuck in limbo and building momentum, Kimberly shares a story of one reader who found his mo’.
Show Chapters
Chapter 1: Momentum
Chapter 2: Walt Whitman
Chapter 3: Please Hold
Chapter 4: False Alarm
Chapter 5: The Tell-Tale Heart
Chapter 6: Push & Pull
Chapter 7: Toxic Positivity
Chapter 8: Beanstack Featured Librarian
Links
- The Reading Culture
- The Reading Culture Newsletter Signup
- Follow The Reading Culture on Instagram (for giveaways and bonus content)
- Erin Entrada Kelly
- Erin Entrada Kelly Instagram
- The Tell-Tale Heart by Edgar Allen Poe
- Moonlight Cottage ASMR
- The hotel!
- Beanstack resources to build your community’s reading culture
- Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Host and Production Credits
Host: Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Producers: Mel Webb and Lower Street Media
Script Editors: Josia Lamberto-Egan, Mel Webb, Jordan Lloyd Bookey
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erin Entrada Kelly (00:01):
It's that old expression that I love,
which is wherever you go, thereyou are. So you never really got
out of the limbo because thelimbo is you. So maybe we're
always in limbo.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:13):
Two things can be true at once. We can be
moving forward and standingstill, caught somewhere between
momentum and stasis. We can behaunted by the past and yet
reaching toward what's next. Wecan feel grateful and undone all
at the same time. Erin EntradaKelly is a New York Times
(00:35):
bestselling author and two timeNewbery Medal winner.
She's written books like HelloUniverse, First State of Being,
and We Dream of Space, characterdriven stories that explore the
interior lives of ordinary kidsand their extraordinary courage.
Her latest novel, the lastresort, ventures somewhere new,
(00:56):
a haunting supernatural storythat still carries Erin's
signature heart. Today, Aaronreturns for what we call the
second chapter, a series wherewe bring back previous guests of
the show and ask them to dive alittle deeper into subjects
where we think they've got a lotof wisdom to drop on us. In this
episode, Erin digs into limbo,being stuck between moving and
(01:20):
not moving, knowing and notknowing, or living and not
living. She shares how hercancer diagnosis and journey
have changed the pace of herlife and her writing.
You'll also hear an intriguingnew technique to help you sleep
and a ghost story that willdefinitely keep you up all
(01:41):
night. My name is Jordan LloydBookie, and this is The Reading
Culture, a show where we speakwith diverse authors about ways
to build a stronger culture ofreading in our communities. We
dive deep into their personalexperiences and inspirations.
Our show is made possible byBeanstack, the leading solution
for motivating people to readmore. Learn more at
(02:01):
beanstack.com, and make sure tocheck us out on Instagram at the
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slash newsletter.
Alright. Onto the show. Hey,listeners. Are you looking for a
fun, easy way to track yourreading and earn cool rewards?
(02:23):
Well, meet Beanstack, theultimate reading app used by a
community of over 15,000schools, libraries, and
organizations nationwide.
Are you an avid reader? Checkwith your local library to see
if they offer Beanstack forfree. A parent? Ask your child's
teacher if the school libraryalready uses Beanstack. And if
(02:45):
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Ready to turn the page? Visitbeanstack.com to learn more.
Hello, Erin. Man, lots going onsince the last time I spoke with
(03:08):
you.
Erin Entrada Kelly (03:08):
There is a lot going on. Yes. Good, bad,
and ugly.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:13):
Good, bad,
and ugly.
Where are you today, Delaware?
Erin Entrada Kelly (03:16):
I am at home in Delaware in my new office
space. So that's where I am.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:20):
Oh, yeah. That's why I
was asking because it looks kind of
different. Okay.
Yeah. Nice. So let's start with momentum.
And I'll just start with like aquestion. Generally, wanna know
what does momentum mean to you?
How do you define momentum?
Erin Entrada Kelly (03:38):
I think about, as far as storytelling
goes, I think about how arethings evolving and what is
causing them to evolve. Andactually, I think about that in
my life too as far as momentumgoes. I'm very much a person who
loves momentum. I don't like tosit still. I don't like inertia,
(03:59):
you know, in my life or in mystories.
So I think momentum is just theact of moving forward toward
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (04:10):
something. And in your life, what are the
things that like help to buildyour momentum that other people
or things around you support themomentum in your world?
Erin Entrada Kelly (04:23):
The biggest person pushing my momentum is
myself, for sure. It's kind of adouble edged sword because a lot
of my I I almost have a I don'tknow if I wanna say addiction to
momentum because that soundsmaybe a little dramatic. But,
I'm always a person who'slooking to the next thing. And
(04:44):
sometimes when you're alwayslooking to the next thing, then
you miss the things that areright in front of you. But
usually what propels me forwardis I'm a very achievement
oriented person.
And once I meet or achieve agoal, I've already forgotten
that goal and now I wannaachieve something else. One of
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:01):
the posts that you wrote on Instagram or
wherever on social, but it said,I'm fueled by ambition and
momentum. It's incrediblyfrustrating to be limited by
things outside of my control,like pain and fatigue, and
sometimes my body feels like acage. And yeah. So I wonder what
it felt like to have that, whatyou perceived as your momentum,
(05:23):
like, sort of stopped in itstracks in a way.
Erin Entrada Kelly (05:26):
Yes. That's a great question. You know, I
was diagnosed with breastcancer, a very aggressive form
of breast cancer in November2023. And I had to go through
very, very harsh chemo andimmunotherapy and surgery and
radiation. And all of that endedabout a year ago.
And I thought, okay, well, let'shit the ground running now that
(05:49):
we got that over with. Let'skeep let's go. Let's go. So this
year I had like four books comeout and, did a ton of traveling,
did not allow myself much rest,which I think goes back to that
achiever thing that we were justtalking about because I do not
like to rest. Like for me,relaxation is almost stressful.
(06:13):
So the problem is that I'm stillthat person, but the cancer
treatment has ravaged my body.So I have rheumatoid arthritis
now as a result of cancertreatment. So my hands are in a
lot of pain and it just isreally, really defeating because
(06:35):
I believed that if I justpowered through and I just kept
working, kept doing, pay noattention to the side effects
behind the mirror kind ofsituation, that it would go away
or get better. And, like, I'mjust gonna pretend it's not
happening, that kind ofsituation. That doesn't work
(06:55):
apparently.
So I'm still kind of dealingwith what that looks like and
how can I prioritize my own selfcare? And what does that even
look like for someone who is notgood at rest?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (07:14):
I do think that a lot of people, yeah,
power through. Did you continueto work like through chemo or
you just like whenever you couldjust still, when you're being
had all these differenttreatments?
Erin Entrada Kelly (07:26):
Yes. I did a lot of writing and, you know, a
lot of people said, well, howdid you do all that work? I
can't believe it. And honestly,writing has always been my
escape and my safe space and mytherapy and my comfort. So to
me, it made total sense that Iproduced so much writing while I
(07:47):
was sick because that's whatheals me.
So emotionally, I've been allover the place this year, you
know, and I've had some very,very down moments, especially
recently as the arthritis hasgotten worse. But that's
something I'm still workingthrough. I don't know how to be
me in the body that I'm in now.So I have to figure that out.
(08:10):
You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:11):
That's like a very deep statement. Yes. I
know I know from your Newberryspeech, it's not gonna be
through meditation. That's notgonna be the answer.
Erin Entrada Kelly (08:22):
No. But you know what I have discovered?
What? What's working? Peoplethink it's so weird, but I'm
gonna tell you, is ASMR.
Now I discovered cinematic ASMR.I just wanna tell everyone that
if you if you're not familiarwith ASMR and you think it's
just people like chewing in amicrophone, it's much more than
(08:43):
that. Okay. If you look upcinematic ASMR, it will blow you
away what people have done, likethe the level of skill and
talent in production. So forexample, you might have a scene
where you're at the tailor,like, you know, at a tailor
shop, and they're like, oh, letme measure you for your dress.
And then they have the the soundof the fabric and the sound of
(09:06):
the measuring tape and, like andthe sound of the person,
obviously. And I have listenedto some stereo whisper ASMR
where it goes from ear to ear.And there's a couple people who
their ASMR is all there's thisone guy, oh, I forget his name,
but he just whispers aboutnonsense. Like, he just rambles,
(09:29):
but it's to put you to sleep.Now I I did play this for my
husband because I was allexcited.
I found this new thing thatcalms me down at night. And
like, I listened to it and itcreeped him out a little bit.
Someone whispering so close inhis ear, which I totally
understand. No.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:44):
If it's not for you, it's not for you. Yeah.
Erin Entrada Kelly (09:46):
Correct. But I'm into it. So that has helped
me. I listen to ASMR every nightto fall asleep, and it allows me
to focus on it it's kind of likea form of meditation in that I'm
I'm immersed in that so my mindcan't run away with me, but I'm
also not being told to do stuff.Yes.
(10:07):
So that's what I do, and itquiets my brain quite a bit.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:14):
Momentum comes easily to Erin. It's never
been hard for her to find. Shethrives on productivity, on
finishing one project, andalready thinking about the next
one. But when life forces apause, as it at least tried to
for Erin, it can change not onlyhow you move, but how you make
meaning from that motion. So Iwanted to know how has her
(10:38):
relationship to writing changedthrough all of it?
Erin Entrada Kelly (10:45):
I have thought a lot this year about
what kind of books I want towrite, and I want to continue
writing the books that I'm bestknown for. But it has made me
think about the kinds of booksthat I wanna write in addition
to those so called quiet, verycharacter forward internal
(11:07):
journey books, which is what I'mbest known for. And I love
those, but I have also been alifelong lover of horror and
scary books and scary movies andscary television. And it's it's
kind of like, it feels like adeparture, but it's really not.
(11:27):
It's just, you know, that's whoI am as a reader and as a
consumer.
I either want to watch a reallydramatic movie that's gonna make
me cry and break my heart, or Iwanna watch a really scary
movie. And that's just kind ofboth of my lanes, if you will.
So for the past, you know, tenor so years since I've been
publishing, I haven't reallyexplored that side of my writing
(11:50):
life. So I'm at a place nowwhere I feel like I can and
maybe I was always in thisplace, but in my head, I wasn't,
where I can explore other genresand walk into the the meadow of
these other genres that Ihaven't been exploring lately.
So, you know, to that end, Ihave the last resort, which just
(12:13):
came out last month, September2025 with Scholastic, which is a
spooky haunted house story.
And I have my friend ElliotSchrafer and I are launching a
technology horror series nextyear in July 2026. And I wanna
continue writing those storiesas well as the other ones that
(12:34):
I'm known for.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:34):
Yeah. First of all, I did wanna just key in
on what you're saying, which isthat you're sort of like, you
had this moment to stop and belike, let me not just follow the
whatever the Momentum. Momentum.Like, what's the opposite of oh,
wait. Yeah.
Okay. Of just like going withwhat works or what, you know,
what what has what has worked.Let's put
Erin Entrada Kelly (12:55):
it Yes. That
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:55):
Exactly. You write about these quiet
people, but you're like, nowthat's not your personality
doesn't feel like so, you know.
Erin Entrada Kelly (13:05):
Not anymore.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (13:06):
Not anymore. Right. There was. But
I'm thinking about just thebeauty, I guess, of being able
to do that because I'm recentlyI met with Jason Reynolds, and
he was telling me how he's gonnalike, one of his next projects
he has coming is, like, theseretelling not I don't it's
retelling or his own version of,like, James and the Giant Peach
and Willy Wonka. And my firstreaction to that was like, oh,
(13:29):
man.
Like, you've never done anythinglike that. That doesn't feel
like you is, you know, more orless what I said, I think. And
he was like, yeah. But I'm anartist, and artists wanna
create. This is the thing thatI'm known for this, realistic
fiction, and this is what I doand da da da.
But, like, I wanna do somethingelse and feel fulfilled and have
like you're describing.
Erin Entrada Kelly (13:49):
Yes. Exactly. I totally relate to
that. And it's also like, youknow, they say write what you
read. You know, that's like apiece of advice that writers
hear a lot.
But what do you do if you readeverything?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:00):
Yeah. You're so well read. You're
always like reading this,
now reading, now reading. Yeah.
Erin Entrada Kelly (14:04):
Yeah. I I mean, I read so many different
kinds of books and I containmultitudes as does everyone. And
I want to make sure that that II honor all the multitudes of
Aaron.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:18):
Let's talk just a little bit about limbo,
which, of course, I'm thinkingabout because of first state of
being and also, honestly, lastresort if you think in some
regard. But I wonder about,like, limbo is this you could
think of it as, like, theopposite of momentum more or
(14:40):
less, or at least it's just likea stand feels like a standstill.
And I wonder, like, what drewyou if you can remember back to
that time, like, what drew youto that idea of, like, being
caught in a time? What whatattracted you to the idea of a
of a limbo of sorts?
Erin Entrada Kelly (14:56):
You know what? I think it's because I
have historically been and stillam, as we've kind of discussed,
a person who is neglectful ofthe present and is always
looking to the future. And atleast when I was younger, I
would say I worried a lot aboutthe past, and I thought a lot
(15:19):
about the future, and I didn'twanna be in my present. And now
as an adult, I I don't thinkabout the past that much, but I
am very much a forward momentumperson. And the problem with
that is you miss things.
Right? There's things happeningright now that you don't notice
or that you don't see. And Iwanted to explore the idea of
(15:44):
something that I think mostpeople struggle with, which is,
okay. But right here, now is thebest place to be. Right?
That's kind of the thing aboutthe first state of being. And
it's true because it's thatconcept of kind of taking things
for granted. You know? So I trynow to cherish those little
(16:07):
moments that I mean, it's easyto cherish the big obvious
moments like getting married,having a baby, graduating, and
all these things. But I like tocherish the moments, for
example, when my husband and Iare are cuddled up watching a TV
show and I'll I'll think, thisis nice.
I'm content. This is a happyplace I'm in. And we need to do
(16:30):
more of that, you know,especially now because
everything feels very terribleand heavy. So, you know,
honestly, I feel like a lot ofwriters when they're writing a
story or telling a story, a lotof it is because they're trying
to answer a question forthemselves. Not always, but
often.
Like, I think for the first databeing, the question would be,
(16:54):
how do I live in the presentmoment? Which is something that,
you know, I struggle with. Andthe book is basically me
answering myself, but alsoironically me not taking my own
advice. I'm I'm basicallyimporting a lesson to readers
that I haven't even learned orthat I'm still learning, which
(17:15):
is what prompted me to write thebook in the first place.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:18):
Mhmm.
And you're trying to answer that, but
still, like, struggling toCorrect. Move along and do it.
Yeah. Did you feel like when youwere sort of sick or as you've
been going through this thatthat was was that a state of
limbo for you?
Erin Entrada Kelly (17:33):
I feel like when I was sick, in my mind, I
was in limbo because it waslike, okay. Now I'm stuck here,
and I need to get out of hereand go on with my life. And
before I was somewhere else, andnow I'm stuck in this limbo. But
the reality is that whenever Igot out of that limbo, quote
unquote, I didn't really get outof it because it's that old
(17:55):
expression that I love, which iswherever you go, there you are.
Yeah.
You know, in my head I thought,okay, when I'm in remission and
I'm done with treatment, I'mgonna just go back to being me
and I'm just gonna erase thislittle two year hiatus, cancer
hiatus, the worst sabbaticalever. Let's just move on from
(18:18):
this. But the reality being, ofcourse, that impossible. You
know? You cannot erase whateveryou've been through.
I mean, anyone listening, youknow, you can't just erase this
part and then move on becausenow you're a different person.
So I'm trying to figure out whothis new person is, and I'm also
(18:39):
mourning the the previous Aaronof the past. So never really got
out of the limbo because thelimbo is you. So maybe we're
always in limbo. I don't know.
Or maybe we're never in limbo.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (18:54):
Right. Right. I guess it
could be either. It could
be both. Let's talk a
little bit about ghosts, which if you
think about it, it's like another kind of
limbo or type limbo in the sensethat there's like space between
it's a space between living andnot living, and you've written
about them in your work in TheLast Resort. And I'm first
curious, okay, do you believe inghosts? Do believe in what
(19:16):
you're writing? And then alsowhat draws you to the idea of
being caught between two worlds?
Erin Entrada Kelly (19:24):
Do I believe in ghosts? My answer is no, but
I don't think that's true. Ithink I'm lying to myself and
here's why. Okay. Ghosts terrifyme.
So if I don't believe in them,why would I be scared of them?
See what I mean? Yes.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (19:40):
Why do they terrify you so much?
Erin Entrada Kelly (19:42):
Because they you can't see them and they're
kind of stuck in a limbo. And,you know, I think it's the
unknown and the unseen, both ofwhich I find frightening because
I'm the type of person who wantsall the information at all
times. So that's why they scareme. And do I wanna be a ghost?
(20:03):
That's a great question.
I think it depends on what myoptions are.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:09):
Co op. It could be. For example mapped
those out, so why don't you layout your options?
Erin Entrada Kelly (20:16):
Okay. So the option is I could go to let's
say there's a heaven. Could I goto heaven and just like, am I
stuck as a ghost or do I haveoptions to go somewhere else?
Because I would like to see,like, my daughter grow grow up.
I mean, she's she's 28, but Iwould like to see her life
(20:37):
unfold and see the people Ilove.
But then again, that would bereally sad because then I'm
seeing them and I'm not withthem. So I don't know if I would
want that. So then if my optionis to not exist, that sounds
scary. But then again, if I justcease to exist, I won't know
anyway. So what difference doesit make?
(20:58):
So my ideal situation would beand this is kind of what I
believe honestly happens, is tojust become one with the
universe. You know? And forsomeone who fails so terribly at
meditation, now I sound likesomeone who meditates all the I
just wanna become part energy ofthe leaves and the sky and the
(21:20):
mountains and all this otherstuff and just kind of be a
spirit to not maybe not evensentient, but just existing if
that
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:31):
Yeah. Makes any
Erin Entrada Kelly (21:33):
On another plane.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:34):
Yeah. It does make sense.
Erin Entrada Kelly (21:36):
I do have a ghost story to tell you. And
maybe this is what's nudging metoward believing in ghosts. So
this is a 100% true story. Yearsago, I was staying at the
Montelion Hotel in New Orleans,and I was on the Fourteenth
Floor. So I was by myself.
And in the middle of the nightaround 3AM, I was awakened by
(21:59):
the fire alarm. It was blaring,blaring, blaring so loud. I get
out of bed. I open the door. Ipeek down the hall.
There's no one in the hall, butthe lights are flashing. The
alarm's going off. And I think,great. I'm gonna have to walk
down to the you know, evacuatethe building. I mean, that's
what you do.
(22:20):
So I start walking down 14flights of stairs, and I have to
plug my ears because that's howloud the fire alarm is. And I'm
walking, but I'm the only personin the stairwell, which I think
is odd because this is a hotelin the French Quarter. Okay? So
(22:41):
I get to the bottom and my earsare ringing from the fire alarm.
I open the door to the lobby andI step into the lobby.
And there are people in thereand they turn and look at me
quizzically because I am wearingmy pajamas. Hair is looking
crazy, and I'm covering my ears.And it's the middle of the
(23:04):
night. And this employee walksup to me and he says, do you
need help with something? And Isaid, I came down because of the
fire alarm.
And he said, what fire alarm? Noway. And I said, the fire alarm
(23:24):
that just went off. My ears arestill ringing from the alarm.
And he says, There was no firealarm.
And I say, There was definitelya fire alarm because the lights
were flashing. So he took meover to the manager and he asked
the manager, was there a firealarm? And the manager tells me
(23:46):
there was no fire alarm. I findout later that there had been
two fires on the FourteenthFloor of the Montelion Hotel.
One of them was in the earlynineteen hundreds, and the other
one was in, I think, thenineteen sixties on that same
(24:07):
floor.
Shut up.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:08):
No. Yes. Oh. Oh.
Oh. I don't like that. I don't like it at
all. I don't like that story. Idid not like that story.
Oh.
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:21):
It's 100% true.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:24):
That is why you're by yourself? Were you
like, I'm not going back to thatroom?
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:28):
No. I went back and I went to sleep.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:31):
You're like, honey, it's 2AM. I'm going
back to bed. That's a wildstory. Yes. Oh, of course you
believe a ghost then.
This is this is the time for you
to read from the telltale heart.
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:42):
Okay. Yes. This is
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:43):
it. I
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:48):
was certain of it. They knew. Now it was
they who were playing a gamewith me. See, earlier he was
playing a game with the policesaying, I didn't kill that man.
I don't know who that man is.
But now he thinks they'replaying a game with him. I was
suffering more than I could bearfrom their smiles and from that
sound. Louder, louder, louder.Suddenly, I could bear it no
(25:11):
longer. I pointed at the boardsand cried, yes.
Yes. I killed him. Pull up theboards, and you shall see I
killed him. But why does hisheart not stop beating? Why does
it not stop?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (25:24):
Aaron read from the telltale heart by Edgar
Allan Poe. First published in1843, it's one of Poe's most
enduring short stories, oftencited as a defining example of
Gothic horror. The story followsa man who insists on his sanity
as he describes murdering an oldman and hiding the body beneath
(25:45):
the floorboards. When the policearrive, he's undone, not by
evidence, but by the sound ofthe victim's heart still beating
impossibly beneath his feet.
Erin Entrada Kelly (26:04):
I can't remember when I first read it,
but I had to have been, like,early middle school, like,
pretty young. I was into scarystuff and horror at a very young
age. And the thing that I lovedabout it was I love crime and
punishment for the same reason.This concept of guilt that's so
(26:24):
strong that you starthallucinating, you know, like
the sound of the heart beatingbecause you're so overwhelmed
with guilt and just thecreepiness of it. Because the
other story that I loved by Poewas the black cat.
Not many people talk about thisone as much, but he murders his
wife and he buries her in thewall. And he's like breaking up
(26:47):
the wall and he thinks he'slike, you know, being really,
really smart. But he doesn'tknow that his cat is in the wall
and like jumped in there. So hewalls up the cat. And when the
police come to his house,they're like, where's your wife?
And, of course, he's acting likehe doesn't know anything. But
(27:09):
then they hear the police andthe man as they're walking
around in the basement, theyhear
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:16):
behind
the wall.
Erin Entrada Kelly (27:23):
I'm doing remember, you're really doing
the most here. But it's likemuffled, you know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:28):
You're an ASM artist.
Erin Entrada Kelly (27:31):
That's what it is. I've been inspired. Meow.
And so the police look at thewall and they look at the man
and the man looks at the wall.Now he's freaking out because he
realizes that he bricked his catup.
Yes. So they start banging. Theystart knocking on the wall and
the cat's meowing and they takedown the frantically take down
the bricks. And there is the catsitting on his wife's shoulder
(27:55):
And she's dead. Of course, herbody's all gross and dead.
But the cat is alive and thecat's on the shoulder like,
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:02):
meow. My daughter's reading the yellow
wallpaper right now for school.She was reading I
Erin Entrada Kelly (28:09):
love that.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:09):
Yeah. That's really yeah. It's taking
me to that. She's like she'spretty young. She's eighth
grade.
So I'm like, why are you guysreading the yellow wallpaper?
But she's like reading it. Ididn't even understand what's
going oh, no. Now I know. She'slike, oh, this is disgusting
horror movie.
This is a horror story, mom.
Erin Entrada Kelly (28:24):
But I also think that horror in general,
whether it's ghosts or whateverit is, is fascinating for a lot
of people, including me, becausefear is like a heightened
feeling of emotion. Right? It'slike when I watch a scary movie,
I want the maximum scare factor.Like, I want the room to be as
(28:46):
dark as possible. I want it tobe as quiet as possible.
I want to be as scared aspossible. I will hide my eyes.
So then it makes you wonder,like, do you why are you doing
this? You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:56):
Like, you
don't want to see gore, but you want to see
you want to have that fear.Okay. So why are you doing it to
yourself?
Erin Entrada Kelly (29:01):
Well, or sometimes I get so afraid of
what's going to come like a jumpscare that I'll cover my eyes.
Okay. But it's that feeling ofadrenaline that fear gives you
that makes me love horror somuch because the truth of the
matter is you get to experiencethis adrenaline and this rush of
fear and heightened emotion, butyou're always safe. You're never
(29:24):
in any actual danger. You get toexperience heightened emotion in
a very safe space.
And that's also true, by theway, of drama and crying and sad
books and sad movies. You get toexperience the heartbreak and
the heartache safely. It's like
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (29:40):
the beauty of books. Right? Absolutely. You
also get to experience otherpeople's experience.
Erin Entrada Kelly (29:44):
One of my favorite things is when I go to
a scary movie and somethingreally scary happens and
everyone in the theater screamsand then immediately laughs. I
love that feeling because it'slike, we're all we're all united
together. We all got the shitscared out of us, and now we're
laughing at ourselves and eachother. And I just love when that
happens.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:13):
What do you think is like this fascination?
I think we all have afascination with ghosts. You
obviously do and are like, youknow, bringing that into your
your own writing now. Where doyou think that fascination comes
from? Where did it come from foryou, I should say?
Erin Entrada Kelly (30:28):
That's a great question. I think it's
because we all want to know whathappens to us after we die. Some
of us think we know. Some of usare convinced that we know, but
we really don't know. And Ithink that not knowing and that
fascination and fear of our ownmortality is part of the reason
(30:53):
why we're so fascinated byghosts.
And I think that, you know, in alot of ways, we're desperate to
believe that they exist becausethat means that something
happens afterwards. Mhmm.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (31:06):
I think of, like, momentum brings us
forward, ghosts kind of bringyou back or feels like there
could be like a I don't know,pull us back. And I wonder how
you think about those twoforces, you know, maybe in light
of the last resort, but alsojust in life about these these
differing forces of being here,but also, like, you know,
(31:29):
thinking about the past or thosewho came before us, those types
of things and sort of how thoseare interacting.
Erin Entrada Kelly (31:35):
That's such an interesting concept. Okay.
Momentum brings us forward, butghosts bring us back. And how do
those interact with each other?Here's what I think.
The concept of ghosts,especially ghosts from long ago,
one reason why I find themfascinating is I love history
and I love the past, it's kindof like, you know, a touchstone
(31:55):
to something from before. But Iwonder if one of the reasons why
we're fascinated by ghosts isbecause it implies that we still
have momentum after we die. Oh.Because if the ghost is existing
in our current timeline, thatmeans their momentum has not
(32:19):
ended. Therefore, our momentummay not end.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (32:29):
We may never know for sure about ghosts
or what comes after or why somequestions stay unanswered, but
maybe what matters more is howwe live with that uncertainty
and how we make peace with whatwe can't fully understand.
Erin Entrada Kelly (32:48):
One of the most freeing things as an adult,
in my opinion, is realizing thattwo things can be true at once.
Right? So I can be grateful andappreciative that I'm alive and
that I'm in remission. But alsoI can be sad and frustrated and
disappointed that I'm not theperson I was before and that I'm
(33:11):
still suffering. I do not adhereto the toxic positivity.
Look at the bright side. I'mlike, well, can I look at the
bright side, but also recognizethat there's a dark side? Can't
can't two things be true? Andthey can. And for me, there's a
lot of power in knowing thatmany things can be true.
It doesn't have to be one or theother. I can suffer. And just
(33:36):
because you know, I also grew upvery in a very Catholic
household. So, you know, you'realways kinda taught like, well,
be thankful for what you haveand think about this person and
that person. And the reality isI can think about this person
and that person, and I can alsofeel sorrow for myself and
things that I'm going through.
This this person, that person'ssuffering does not negate my
(33:58):
suffering and vice versa.There's enough suffering to go
around. This is a real upliftingpodcast. I should be a
motivational speaker.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (34:14):
Honestly, I would sign up for that
seminar y'all. Erin Entrada Kelly,
motivational speaker in themaking, the ghost believer on
occasion, and absolute pro atkeeping it real. Thank you.
Thank you, Erin, for such aspecial conversation. And while
we wait on her world tour, let'shear from this week's Feedstack
(34:35):
featured librarian KimberlyThompson, the library media
specialist at Eastside MiddleSchool in Bullock County,
Kentucky.
After all that talk about beingstuck in limbo and building
momentum, Kimberly shares astory of one reader who has
found his moe.
Kimberly Thompson (34:55):
Few years ago, I had a kiddo who came in,
named Nathan. And Nathan did nothave a good feeling about
reading. So I'd been workingwith him trying to find books
that he might like. And we justrealized after initial testing
in sixth grade that his readinglevel was on second grade. And
that was probably his mainproblem.
(35:16):
And a lot of the books I had inthe library were just way, way
too hard for him. And so I got aDollar General grant, which
shout out, librarians, teachers,if you need a grant, Dollar
General is a great place to go.I ordered a lot of books that
looked like middle school books,but were written at a second,
(35:37):
third, fourth grade level. I puton the broadcast, always do
that, you know, have new books,you can come down and check them
out. And Aidan was the first onedown there because he couldn't
wait to tell me that those werenot good books.
He came over to me and and hewhispered, I need to talk to
you. And I was, okay. And hepulled me over to the corner and
he's like, I checked out thosebooks. And I was like, yeah.
(35:58):
What'd you think?
And he said, I can read them.And I said, I know. And he's
like, no. I can read thosebooks. And I said, I know.
And he's like, how many can Iget? So he ran over and got his
books. And from then on, hereally helped me start picking
out books that he wanted toread, those were the books that
(36:21):
I would get, for him. And he wasvery impatient about how long it
took to go through the processto order books for his school,
but became such a great readerand moved up through his reading
levels in middle school.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (36:39):
This has been the reading culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Aaron Entrada
Kelly. Again, I'm your host,Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and
currently, I'm reading The HouseNext Door by Ellen O and Tower
of Dawn by Sarah j Maas. I amalmost done with that series and
really loving it. If you enjoyedtoday's episode, please show
(37:00):
some love and give us a fivestar review or better yet, do a
quick written review. It meansso much, and it really helps
this show get shared beyond ourregular audience.
So thank you. Thank you so muchfor doing that. And to learn
more about how you can help growyour community's reading
culture, please check out all ofour resources at beanstack.com,
and remember to sign up for ournewsletter at the
(37:22):
readingculturepod.com forwardslash newsletter for special
offers and bonus content. Thisepisode was produced by Mel Webb
and Lower Street Media andscript edited by Josiah Lamberto
Egan. Thanks for listening, andkeep reading.
It's that old expression that I love,
which is wherever you go, thereyou are. So you never really got
out of the limbo because thelimbo is you. So maybe we're
always in limbo.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (00:13):
Two things can be true at once. We can be
moving forward and standingstill, caught somewhere between
momentum and stasis. We can behaunted by the past and yet
reaching toward what's next. Wecan feel grateful and undone all
at the same time. Erin EntradaKelly is a New York Times
(00:35):
bestselling author and two timeNewbery Medal winner.
She's written books like HelloUniverse, First State of Being,
and We Dream of Space, characterdriven stories that explore the
interior lives of ordinary kidsand their extraordinary courage.
Her latest novel, the lastresort, ventures somewhere new,
(00:56):
a haunting supernatural storythat still carries Erin's
signature heart. Today, Aaronreturns for what we call the
second chapter, a series wherewe bring back previous guests of
the show and ask them to dive alittle deeper into subjects
where we think they've got a lotof wisdom to drop on us. In this
episode, Erin digs into limbo,being stuck between moving and
(01:20):
not moving, knowing and notknowing, or living and not
living. She shares how hercancer diagnosis and journey
have changed the pace of herlife and her writing.
You'll also hear an intriguingnew technique to help you sleep
and a ghost story that willdefinitely keep you up all
(01:41):
night. My name is Jordan LloydBookie, and this is The Reading
Culture, a show where we speakwith diverse authors about ways
to build a stronger culture ofreading in our communities. We
dive deep into their personalexperiences and inspirations.
Our show is made possible byBeanstack, the leading solution
for motivating people to readmore. Learn more at
(02:01):
beanstack.com, and make sure tocheck us out on Instagram at the
reading culture pod andsubscribe to our newsletter for
bonus content atthereadingculturepod.com forward
slash newsletter.
Alright. Onto the show. Hey,listeners. Are you looking for a
fun, easy way to track yourreading and earn cool rewards?
(02:23):
Well, meet Beanstack, theultimate reading app used by a
community of over 15,000schools, libraries, and
organizations nationwide.
Are you an avid reader? Checkwith your local library to see
if they offer Beanstack forfree. A parent? Ask your child's
teacher if the school libraryalready uses Beanstack. And if
(02:45):
you are an educator searchingfor a fresh alternative to
accelerated reader, Beanstack isthe perfect tool to cultivate a
thriving reading culture.
Ready to turn the page? Visitbeanstack.com to learn more.
Hello, Erin. Man, lots going onsince the last time I spoke with
(03:08):
you.
Erin Entrada Kelly (03:08):
There is a lot going on. Yes. Good, bad,
and ugly.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:13):
Good, bad,
and ugly.
Where are you today, Delaware?
Erin Entrada Kelly (03:16):
I am at home in Delaware in my new office
space. So that's where I am.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (03:20):
Oh, yeah. That's why I
was asking because it looks kind of
different. Okay.
Yeah. Nice. So let's start with momentum.
And I'll just start with like aquestion. Generally, wanna know
what does momentum mean to you?
How do you define momentum?
Erin Entrada Kelly (03:38):
I think about, as far as storytelling
goes, I think about how arethings evolving and what is
causing them to evolve. Andactually, I think about that in
my life too as far as momentumgoes. I'm very much a person who
loves momentum. I don't like tosit still. I don't like inertia,
(03:59):
you know, in my life or in mystories.
So I think momentum is just theact of moving forward toward
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (04:10):
something. And in your life, what are the
things that like help to buildyour momentum that other people
or things around you support themomentum in your world?
Erin Entrada Kelly (04:23):
The biggest person pushing my momentum is
myself, for sure. It's kind of adouble edged sword because a lot
of my I I almost have a I don'tknow if I wanna say addiction to
momentum because that soundsmaybe a little dramatic. But,
I'm always a person who'slooking to the next thing. And
(04:44):
sometimes when you're alwayslooking to the next thing, then
you miss the things that areright in front of you. But
usually what propels me forwardis I'm a very achievement
oriented person.
And once I meet or achieve agoal, I've already forgotten
that goal and now I wannaachieve something else. One of
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (05:01):
the posts that you wrote on Instagram or
wherever on social, but it said,I'm fueled by ambition and
momentum. It's incrediblyfrustrating to be limited by
things outside of my control,like pain and fatigue, and
sometimes my body feels like acage. And yeah. So I wonder what
it felt like to have that, whatyou perceived as your momentum,
(05:23):
like, sort of stopped in itstracks in a way.
Erin Entrada Kelly (05:26):
Yes. That's a great question. You know, I
was diagnosed with breastcancer, a very aggressive form
of breast cancer in November2023. And I had to go through
very, very harsh chemo andimmunotherapy and surgery and
radiation. And all of that endedabout a year ago.
And I thought, okay, well, let'shit the ground running now that
(05:49):
we got that over with. Let'skeep let's go. Let's go. So this
year I had like four books comeout and, did a ton of traveling,
did not allow myself much rest,which I think goes back to that
achiever thing that we were justtalking about because I do not
like to rest. Like for me,relaxation is almost stressful.
(06:13):
So the problem is that I'm stillthat person, but the cancer
treatment has ravaged my body.So I have rheumatoid arthritis
now as a result of cancertreatment. So my hands are in a
lot of pain and it just isreally, really defeating because
(06:35):
I believed that if I justpowered through and I just kept
working, kept doing, pay noattention to the side effects
behind the mirror kind ofsituation, that it would go away
or get better. And, like, I'mjust gonna pretend it's not
happening, that kind ofsituation. That doesn't work
(06:55):
apparently.
So I'm still kind of dealingwith what that looks like and
how can I prioritize my own selfcare? And what does that even
look like for someone who is notgood at rest?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (07:14):
I do think that a lot of people, yeah,
power through. Did you continueto work like through chemo or
you just like whenever you couldjust still, when you're being
had all these differenttreatments?
Erin Entrada Kelly (07:26):
Yes. I did a lot of writing and, you know, a
lot of people said, well, howdid you do all that work? I
can't believe it. And honestly,writing has always been my
escape and my safe space and mytherapy and my comfort. So to
me, it made total sense that Iproduced so much writing while I
(07:47):
was sick because that's whatheals me.
So emotionally, I've been allover the place this year, you
know, and I've had some very,very down moments, especially
recently as the arthritis hasgotten worse. But that's
something I'm still workingthrough. I don't know how to be
me in the body that I'm in now.So I have to figure that out.
(08:10):
You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (08:11):
That's like a very deep statement. Yes. I
know I know from your Newberryspeech, it's not gonna be
through meditation. That's notgonna be the answer.
Erin Entrada Kelly (08:22):
No. But you know what I have discovered?
What? What's working? Peoplethink it's so weird, but I'm
gonna tell you, is ASMR.
Now I discovered cinematic ASMR.I just wanna tell everyone that
if you if you're not familiarwith ASMR and you think it's
just people like chewing in amicrophone, it's much more than
(08:43):
that. Okay. If you look upcinematic ASMR, it will blow you
away what people have done, likethe the level of skill and
talent in production. So forexample, you might have a scene
where you're at the tailor,like, you know, at a tailor
shop, and they're like, oh, letme measure you for your dress.
And then they have the the soundof the fabric and the sound of
(09:06):
the measuring tape and, like andthe sound of the person,
obviously. And I have listenedto some stereo whisper ASMR
where it goes from ear to ear.And there's a couple people who
their ASMR is all there's thisone guy, oh, I forget his name,
but he just whispers aboutnonsense. Like, he just rambles,
(09:29):
but it's to put you to sleep.Now I I did play this for my
husband because I was allexcited.
I found this new thing thatcalms me down at night. And
like, I listened to it and itcreeped him out a little bit.
Someone whispering so close inhis ear, which I totally
understand. No.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (09:44):
If it's not for you, it's not for you. Yeah.
Erin Entrada Kelly (09:46):
Correct. But I'm into it. So that has helped
me. I listen to ASMR every nightto fall asleep, and it allows me
to focus on it it's kind of likea form of meditation in that I'm
I'm immersed in that so my mindcan't run away with me, but I'm
also not being told to do stuff.Yes.
(10:07):
So that's what I do, and itquiets my brain quite a bit.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (10:14):
Momentum comes easily to Erin. It's never
been hard for her to find. Shethrives on productivity, on
finishing one project, andalready thinking about the next
one. But when life forces apause, as it at least tried to
for Erin, it can change not onlyhow you move, but how you make
meaning from that motion. So Iwanted to know how has her
(10:38):
relationship to writing changedthrough all of it?
Erin Entrada Kelly (10:45):
I have thought a lot this year about
what kind of books I want towrite, and I want to continue
writing the books that I'm bestknown for. But it has made me
think about the kinds of booksthat I wanna write in addition
to those so called quiet, verycharacter forward internal
(11:07):
journey books, which is what I'mbest known for. And I love
those, but I have also been alifelong lover of horror and
scary books and scary movies andscary television. And it's it's
kind of like, it feels like adeparture, but it's really not.
(11:27):
It's just, you know, that's whoI am as a reader and as a
consumer.
I either want to watch a reallydramatic movie that's gonna make
me cry and break my heart, or Iwanna watch a really scary
movie. And that's just kind ofboth of my lanes, if you will.
So for the past, you know, tenor so years since I've been
publishing, I haven't reallyexplored that side of my writing
(11:50):
life. So I'm at a place nowwhere I feel like I can and
maybe I was always in thisplace, but in my head, I wasn't,
where I can explore other genresand walk into the the meadow of
these other genres that Ihaven't been exploring lately.
So, you know, to that end, Ihave the last resort, which just
(12:13):
came out last month, September2025 with Scholastic, which is a
spooky haunted house story.
And I have my friend ElliotSchrafer and I are launching a
technology horror series nextyear in July 2026. And I wanna
continue writing those storiesas well as the other ones that
(12:34):
I'm known for.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:34):
Yeah. First of all, I did wanna just key in
on what you're saying, which isthat you're sort of like, you
had this moment to stop and belike, let me not just follow the
whatever the Momentum. Momentum.Like, what's the opposite of oh,
wait. Yeah.
Okay. Of just like going withwhat works or what, you know,
what what has what has worked.Let's put
Erin Entrada Kelly (12:55):
it Yes. That
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (12:55):
Exactly. You write about these quiet
people, but you're like, nowthat's not your personality
doesn't feel like so, you know.
Erin Entrada Kelly (13:05):
Not anymore.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (13:06):
Not anymore. Right. There was. But
I'm thinking about just thebeauty, I guess, of being able
to do that because I'm recentlyI met with Jason Reynolds, and
he was telling me how he's gonnalike, one of his next projects
he has coming is, like, theseretelling not I don't it's
retelling or his own version of,like, James and the Giant Peach
and Willy Wonka. And my firstreaction to that was like, oh,
(13:29):
man.
Like, you've never done anythinglike that. That doesn't feel
like you is, you know, more orless what I said, I think. And
he was like, yeah. But I'm anartist, and artists wanna
create. This is the thing thatI'm known for this, realistic
fiction, and this is what I doand da da da.
But, like, I wanna do somethingelse and feel fulfilled and have
like you're describing.
Erin Entrada Kelly (13:49):
Yes. Exactly. I totally relate to
that. And it's also like, youknow, they say write what you
read. You know, that's like apiece of advice that writers
hear a lot.
But what do you do if you readeverything?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:00):
Yeah. You're so well read. You're
always like reading this,
now reading, now reading. Yeah.
Erin Entrada Kelly (14:04):
Yeah. I I mean, I read so many different
kinds of books and I containmultitudes as does everyone. And
I want to make sure that that II honor all the multitudes of
Aaron.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (14:18):
Let's talk just a little bit about limbo,
which, of course, I'm thinkingabout because of first state of
being and also, honestly, lastresort if you think in some
regard. But I wonder about,like, limbo is this you could
think of it as, like, theopposite of momentum more or
(14:40):
less, or at least it's just likea stand feels like a standstill.
And I wonder, like, what drewyou if you can remember back to
that time, like, what drew youto that idea of, like, being
caught in a time? What whatattracted you to the idea of a
of a limbo of sorts?
Erin Entrada Kelly (14:56):
You know what? I think it's because I
have historically been and stillam, as we've kind of discussed,
a person who is neglectful ofthe present and is always
looking to the future. And atleast when I was younger, I
would say I worried a lot aboutthe past, and I thought a lot
(15:19):
about the future, and I didn'twanna be in my present. And now
as an adult, I I don't thinkabout the past that much, but I
am very much a forward momentumperson. And the problem with
that is you miss things.
Right? There's things happeningright now that you don't notice
or that you don't see. And Iwanted to explore the idea of
(15:44):
something that I think mostpeople struggle with, which is,
okay. But right here, now is thebest place to be. Right?
That's kind of the thing aboutthe first state of being. And
it's true because it's thatconcept of kind of taking things
for granted. You know? So I trynow to cherish those little
(16:07):
moments that I mean, it's easyto cherish the big obvious
moments like getting married,having a baby, graduating, and
all these things. But I like tocherish the moments, for
example, when my husband and Iare are cuddled up watching a TV
show and I'll I'll think, thisis nice.
I'm content. This is a happyplace I'm in. And we need to do
(16:30):
more of that, you know,especially now because
everything feels very terribleand heavy. So, you know,
honestly, I feel like a lot ofwriters when they're writing a
story or telling a story, a lotof it is because they're trying
to answer a question forthemselves. Not always, but
often.
Like, I think for the first databeing, the question would be,
(16:54):
how do I live in the presentmoment? Which is something that,
you know, I struggle with. Andthe book is basically me
answering myself, but alsoironically me not taking my own
advice. I'm I'm basicallyimporting a lesson to readers
that I haven't even learned orthat I'm still learning, which
(17:15):
is what prompted me to write thebook in the first place.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (17:18):
Mhmm.
And you're trying to answer that, but
still, like, struggling toCorrect. Move along and do it.
Yeah. Did you feel like when youwere sort of sick or as you've
been going through this thatthat was was that a state of
limbo for you?
Erin Entrada Kelly (17:33):
I feel like when I was sick, in my mind, I
was in limbo because it waslike, okay. Now I'm stuck here,
and I need to get out of hereand go on with my life. And
before I was somewhere else, andnow I'm stuck in this limbo. But
the reality is that whenever Igot out of that limbo, quote
unquote, I didn't really get outof it because it's that old
(17:55):
expression that I love, which iswherever you go, there you are.
Yeah.
You know, in my head I thought,okay, when I'm in remission and
I'm done with treatment, I'mgonna just go back to being me
and I'm just gonna erase thislittle two year hiatus, cancer
hiatus, the worst sabbaticalever. Let's just move on from
(18:18):
this. But the reality being, ofcourse, that impossible. You
know? You cannot erase whateveryou've been through.
I mean, anyone listening, youknow, you can't just erase this
part and then move on becausenow you're a different person.
So I'm trying to figure out whothis new person is, and I'm also
(18:39):
mourning the the previous Aaronof the past. So never really got
out of the limbo because thelimbo is you. So maybe we're
always in limbo. I don't know.
Or maybe we're never in limbo.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (18:54):
Right. Right. I guess it
could be either. It could
be both. Let's talk a
little bit about ghosts, which if you
think about it, it's like another kind of
limbo or type limbo in the sensethat there's like space between
it's a space between living andnot living, and you've written
about them in your work in TheLast Resort. And I'm first
curious, okay, do you believe inghosts? Do believe in what
(19:16):
you're writing? And then alsowhat draws you to the idea of
being caught between two worlds?
Erin Entrada Kelly (19:24):
Do I believe in ghosts? My answer is no, but
I don't think that's true. Ithink I'm lying to myself and
here's why. Okay. Ghosts terrifyme.
So if I don't believe in them,why would I be scared of them?
See what I mean? Yes.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (19:40):
Why do they terrify you so much?
Erin Entrada Kelly (19:42):
Because they you can't see them and they're
kind of stuck in a limbo. And,you know, I think it's the
unknown and the unseen, both ofwhich I find frightening because
I'm the type of person who wantsall the information at all
times. So that's why they scareme. And do I wanna be a ghost?
(20:03):
That's a great question.
I think it depends on what myoptions are.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (20:09):
Co op. It could be. For example mapped
those out, so why don't you layout your options?
Erin Entrada Kelly (20:16):
Okay. So the option is I could go to let's
say there's a heaven. Could I goto heaven and just like, am I
stuck as a ghost or do I haveoptions to go somewhere else?
Because I would like to see,like, my daughter grow grow up.
I mean, she's she's 28, but Iwould like to see her life
(20:37):
unfold and see the people Ilove.
But then again, that would bereally sad because then I'm
seeing them and I'm not withthem. So I don't know if I would
want that. So then if my optionis to not exist, that sounds
scary. But then again, if I justcease to exist, I won't know
anyway. So what difference doesit make?
(20:58):
So my ideal situation would beand this is kind of what I
believe honestly happens, is tojust become one with the
universe. You know? And forsomeone who fails so terribly at
meditation, now I sound likesomeone who meditates all the I
just wanna become part energy ofthe leaves and the sky and the
(21:20):
mountains and all this otherstuff and just kind of be a
spirit to not maybe not evensentient, but just existing if
that
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:31):
Yeah. Makes any
Erin Entrada Kelly (21:33):
On another plane.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (21:34):
Yeah. It does make sense.
Erin Entrada Kelly (21:36):
I do have a ghost story to tell you. And
maybe this is what's nudging metoward believing in ghosts. So
this is a 100% true story. Yearsago, I was staying at the
Montelion Hotel in New Orleans,and I was on the Fourteenth
Floor. So I was by myself.
And in the middle of the nightaround 3AM, I was awakened by
(21:59):
the fire alarm. It was blaring,blaring, blaring so loud. I get
out of bed. I open the door. Ipeek down the hall.
There's no one in the hall, butthe lights are flashing. The
alarm's going off. And I think,great. I'm gonna have to walk
down to the you know, evacuatethe building. I mean, that's
what you do.
(22:20):
So I start walking down 14flights of stairs, and I have to
plug my ears because that's howloud the fire alarm is. And I'm
walking, but I'm the only personin the stairwell, which I think
is odd because this is a hotelin the French Quarter. Okay? So
(22:41):
I get to the bottom and my earsare ringing from the fire alarm.
I open the door to the lobby andI step into the lobby.
And there are people in thereand they turn and look at me
quizzically because I am wearingmy pajamas. Hair is looking
crazy, and I'm covering my ears.And it's the middle of the
(23:04):
night. And this employee walksup to me and he says, do you
need help with something? And Isaid, I came down because of the
fire alarm.
And he said, what fire alarm? Noway. And I said, the fire alarm
(23:24):
that just went off. My ears arestill ringing from the alarm.
And he says, There was no firealarm.
And I say, There was definitelya fire alarm because the lights
were flashing. So he took meover to the manager and he asked
the manager, was there a firealarm? And the manager tells me
(23:46):
there was no fire alarm. I findout later that there had been
two fires on the FourteenthFloor of the Montelion Hotel.
One of them was in the earlynineteen hundreds, and the other
one was in, I think, thenineteen sixties on that same
(24:07):
floor.
Shut up.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:08):
No. Yes. Oh. Oh.
Oh. I don't like that. I don't like it at
all. I don't like that story. Idid not like that story.
Oh.
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:21):
It's 100% true.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:24):
That is why you're by yourself? Were you
like, I'm not going back to thatroom?
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:28):
No. I went back and I went to sleep.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:31):
You're like, honey, it's 2AM. I'm going
back to bed. That's a wildstory. Yes. Oh, of course you
believe a ghost then.
This is this is the time for you
to read from the telltale heart.
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:42):
Okay. Yes. This is
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (24:43):
it. I
Erin Entrada Kelly (24:48):
was certain of it. They knew. Now it was
they who were playing a gamewith me. See, earlier he was
playing a game with the policesaying, I didn't kill that man.
I don't know who that man is.
But now he thinks they'replaying a game with him. I was
suffering more than I could bearfrom their smiles and from that
sound. Louder, louder, louder.Suddenly, I could bear it no
(25:11):
longer. I pointed at the boardsand cried, yes.
Yes. I killed him. Pull up theboards, and you shall see I
killed him. But why does hisheart not stop beating? Why does
it not stop?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (25:24):
Aaron read from the telltale heart by Edgar
Allan Poe. First published in1843, it's one of Poe's most
enduring short stories, oftencited as a defining example of
Gothic horror. The story followsa man who insists on his sanity
as he describes murdering an oldman and hiding the body beneath
(25:45):
the floorboards. When the policearrive, he's undone, not by
evidence, but by the sound ofthe victim's heart still beating
impossibly beneath his feet.
Erin Entrada Kelly (26:04):
I can't remember when I first read it,
but I had to have been, like,early middle school, like,
pretty young. I was into scarystuff and horror at a very young
age. And the thing that I lovedabout it was I love crime and
punishment for the same reason.This concept of guilt that's so
(26:24):
strong that you starthallucinating, you know, like
the sound of the heart beatingbecause you're so overwhelmed
with guilt and just thecreepiness of it. Because the
other story that I loved by Poewas the black cat.
Not many people talk about thisone as much, but he murders his
wife and he buries her in thewall. And he's like breaking up
(26:47):
the wall and he thinks he'slike, you know, being really,
really smart. But he doesn'tknow that his cat is in the wall
and like jumped in there. So hewalls up the cat. And when the
police come to his house,they're like, where's your wife?
And, of course, he's acting likehe doesn't know anything. But
(27:09):
then they hear the police andthe man as they're walking
around in the basement, theyhear
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:16):
behind
the wall.
Erin Entrada Kelly (27:23):
I'm doing remember, you're really doing
the most here. But it's likemuffled, you know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (27:28):
You're an ASM artist.
Erin Entrada Kelly (27:31):
That's what it is. I've been inspired. Meow.
And so the police look at thewall and they look at the man
and the man looks at the wall.Now he's freaking out because he
realizes that he bricked his catup.
Yes. So they start banging. Theystart knocking on the wall and
the cat's meowing and they takedown the frantically take down
the bricks. And there is the catsitting on his wife's shoulder
(27:55):
And she's dead. Of course, herbody's all gross and dead.
But the cat is alive and thecat's on the shoulder like,
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:02):
meow. My daughter's reading the yellow
wallpaper right now for school.She was reading I
Erin Entrada Kelly (28:09):
love that.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:09):
Yeah. That's really yeah. It's taking
me to that. She's like she'spretty young. She's eighth
grade.
So I'm like, why are you guysreading the yellow wallpaper?
But she's like reading it. Ididn't even understand what's
going oh, no. Now I know. She'slike, oh, this is disgusting
horror movie.
This is a horror story, mom.
Erin Entrada Kelly (28:24):
But I also think that horror in general,
whether it's ghosts or whateverit is, is fascinating for a lot
of people, including me, becausefear is like a heightened
feeling of emotion. Right? It'slike when I watch a scary movie,
I want the maximum scare factor.Like, I want the room to be as
(28:46):
dark as possible. I want it tobe as quiet as possible.
I want to be as scared aspossible. I will hide my eyes.
So then it makes you wonder,like, do you why are you doing
this? You know?
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (28:56):
Like, you
don't want to see gore, but you want to see
you want to have that fear.Okay. So why are you doing it to
yourself?
Erin Entrada Kelly (29:01):
Well, or sometimes I get so afraid of
what's going to come like a jumpscare that I'll cover my eyes.
Okay. But it's that feeling ofadrenaline that fear gives you
that makes me love horror somuch because the truth of the
matter is you get to experiencethis adrenaline and this rush of
fear and heightened emotion, butyou're always safe. You're never
(29:24):
in any actual danger. You get toexperience heightened emotion in
a very safe space.
And that's also true, by theway, of drama and crying and sad
books and sad movies. You get toexperience the heartbreak and
the heartache safely. It's like
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (29:40):
the beauty of books. Right? Absolutely. You
also get to experience otherpeople's experience.
Erin Entrada Kelly (29:44):
One of my favorite things is when I go to
a scary movie and somethingreally scary happens and
everyone in the theater screamsand then immediately laughs. I
love that feeling because it'slike, we're all we're all united
together. We all got the shitscared out of us, and now we're
laughing at ourselves and eachother. And I just love when that
happens.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (30:13):
What do you think is like this fascination?
I think we all have afascination with ghosts. You
obviously do and are like, youknow, bringing that into your
your own writing now. Where doyou think that fascination comes
from? Where did it come from foryou, I should say?
Erin Entrada Kelly (30:28):
That's a great question. I think it's
because we all want to know whathappens to us after we die. Some
of us think we know. Some of usare convinced that we know, but
we really don't know. And Ithink that not knowing and that
fascination and fear of our ownmortality is part of the reason
(30:53):
why we're so fascinated byghosts.
And I think that, you know, in alot of ways, we're desperate to
believe that they exist becausethat means that something
happens afterwards. Mhmm.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (31:06):
I think of, like, momentum brings us
forward, ghosts kind of bringyou back or feels like there
could be like a I don't know,pull us back. And I wonder how
you think about those twoforces, you know, maybe in light
of the last resort, but alsojust in life about these these
differing forces of being here,but also, like, you know,
(31:29):
thinking about the past or thosewho came before us, those types
of things and sort of how thoseare interacting.
Erin Entrada Kelly (31:35):
That's such an interesting concept. Okay.
Momentum brings us forward, butghosts bring us back. And how do
those interact with each other?Here's what I think.
The concept of ghosts,especially ghosts from long ago,
one reason why I find themfascinating is I love history
and I love the past, it's kindof like, you know, a touchstone
(31:55):
to something from before. But Iwonder if one of the reasons why
we're fascinated by ghosts isbecause it implies that we still
have momentum after we die. Oh.Because if the ghost is existing
in our current timeline, thatmeans their momentum has not
(32:19):
ended. Therefore, our momentummay not end.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (32:29):
We may never know for sure about ghosts
or what comes after or why somequestions stay unanswered, but
maybe what matters more is howwe live with that uncertainty
and how we make peace with whatwe can't fully understand.
Erin Entrada Kelly (32:48):
One of the most freeing things as an adult,
in my opinion, is realizing thattwo things can be true at once.
Right? So I can be grateful andappreciative that I'm alive and
that I'm in remission. But alsoI can be sad and frustrated and
disappointed that I'm not theperson I was before and that I'm
(33:11):
still suffering. I do not adhereto the toxic positivity.
Look at the bright side. I'mlike, well, can I look at the
bright side, but also recognizethat there's a dark side? Can't
can't two things be true? Andthey can. And for me, there's a
lot of power in knowing thatmany things can be true.
It doesn't have to be one or theother. I can suffer. And just
(33:36):
because you know, I also grew upvery in a very Catholic
household. So, you know, you'realways kinda taught like, well,
be thankful for what you haveand think about this person and
that person. And the reality isI can think about this person
and that person, and I can alsofeel sorrow for myself and
things that I'm going through.
This this person, that person'ssuffering does not negate my
(33:58):
suffering and vice versa.There's enough suffering to go
around. This is a real upliftingpodcast. I should be a
motivational speaker.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (34:14):
Honestly, I would sign up for that
seminar y'all. Erin Entrada Kelly,
motivational speaker in themaking, the ghost believer on
occasion, and absolute pro atkeeping it real. Thank you.
Thank you, Erin, for such aspecial conversation. And while
we wait on her world tour, let'shear from this week's Feedstack
(34:35):
featured librarian KimberlyThompson, the library media
specialist at Eastside MiddleSchool in Bullock County,
Kentucky.
After all that talk about beingstuck in limbo and building
momentum, Kimberly shares astory of one reader who has
found his moe.
Kimberly Thompson (34:55):
Few years ago, I had a kiddo who came in,
named Nathan. And Nathan did nothave a good feeling about
reading. So I'd been workingwith him trying to find books
that he might like. And we justrealized after initial testing
in sixth grade that his readinglevel was on second grade. And
that was probably his mainproblem.
(35:16):
And a lot of the books I had inthe library were just way, way
too hard for him. And so I got aDollar General grant, which
shout out, librarians, teachers,if you need a grant, Dollar
General is a great place to go.I ordered a lot of books that
looked like middle school books,but were written at a second,
(35:37):
third, fourth grade level. I puton the broadcast, always do
that, you know, have new books,you can come down and check them
out. And Aidan was the first onedown there because he couldn't
wait to tell me that those werenot good books.
He came over to me and and hewhispered, I need to talk to
you. And I was, okay. And hepulled me over to the corner and
he's like, I checked out thosebooks. And I was like, yeah.
(35:58):
What'd you think?
And he said, I can read them.And I said, I know. And he's
like, no. I can read thosebooks. And I said, I know.
And he's like, how many can Iget? So he ran over and got his
books. And from then on, hereally helped me start picking
out books that he wanted toread, those were the books that
(36:21):
I would get, for him. And he wasvery impatient about how long it
took to go through the processto order books for his school,
but became such a great readerand moved up through his reading
levels in middle school.
Jordan Lloyd Bookey (36:39):
This has been the reading culture, and
you've been listening to myconversation with Aaron Entrada
Kelly. Again, I'm your host,Jordan Lloyd Bookie, and
currently, I'm reading The HouseNext Door by Ellen O and Tower
of Dawn by Sarah j Maas. I amalmost done with that series and
really loving it. If you enjoyedtoday's episode, please show
(37:00):
some love and give us a fivestar review or better yet, do a
quick written review. It meansso much, and it really helps
this show get shared beyond ourregular audience.
So thank you. Thank you so muchfor doing that. And to learn
more about how you can help growyour community's reading
culture, please check out all ofour resources at beanstack.com,
and remember to sign up for ournewsletter at the
(37:22):
readingculturepod.com forwardslash newsletter for special
offers and bonus content. Thisepisode was produced by Mel Webb
and Lower Street Media andscript edited by Josiah Lamberto
Egan. Thanks for listening, andkeep reading.
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