September 9, 2025 • 20 mins
We’re just days away now from what’s been loosely dubbed ‘Regen Week’ over here in WA, an unprecedented series of international events that have gravitated together between Perth, the wheatbelt and Bridgetown. I’ll look forward to sharing some of what happens with you all afterwards, especially for those who can’t get here. Right now, though, on the back of last week’s episode focused on the centrepiece of the week, RegenWA’s major conference at Perth Stadium, it felt irresistible to release this excerpt in anticipation of the climax to the week – the first Grounded Festival in WA.
Welcome to the 8th instalment of Vignettes from the Source, the new short form series featuring some of the unforgettable, transformative and often inexplicable moments my guests have shared over the years.
This vignette is drawn from the conversation I had with farmer, author and founder of Grounded, Matthew Evans, and his partner, farmer and teacher, Sadie Chrestman, just after the very first Grounded had been staged at their place, Fat Pig Farm, in Tasmania last December. We pick it up with Matthew a little over ten minutes in, before Sadie joins us five minutes later.
It was raw, fun, and so endearingly candid. Unforgettable, really. So, on the cusp of the next edition of the festival, here’s 15 minutes with Matthew and Sadie – followed by five minutes of extraordinary music alongside a story about how it played out at that first festival.
If you’d like to hear or revisit this conversation in full, head to episode 247 – ‘Celebrating Grounded Festival: Behind the scenes’ (there are a bunch of links in those show notes too, and a very special photo from this conversation on that episode website).
Originally recorded 18 December 2024, and released 5 February 2025.
Title image sourced here.
For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener via the links below.
Music:
My Mother, The Mountain, by Claire Anne Taylor.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
AJ (00:00):
Before I ask you about some highlights, I don't want to let
pass too quickly though thephysical, visceral experience of
it for you.
Setting something up like thisfrom the get-go you mentioned
the word broken to me even inour little exchange after before
.
This Give us a bit of aninsight, as raw as it may be.
So we get a glimpse of behindthe curtain in that way that
(00:23):
feels important and perhapsinstructive for those who might
be thinking of other stuff infuture too, but also to perhaps
help out next time or justappreciate what goes into it.
Matthew (00:34):
Yeah, it was interesting.
We had a couple of people whowere on site, who've run things
before, you know, field days orthat kind of stuff, and they
looked at what we were doing andthey were the people who, I
guess, like a parent, you know,until you've been a parent and
you've had your own toddlerscreaming in the supermarket,
you know don't understand whatother people are going through.
(00:54):
So, look, I have to say I hadno idea what I was getting into
and I was kind of like, well,why don't we have three tents in
the middle of paddocks?
Why don't we just film it all?
Why don't we just have it onfarm?
You know, and every step, youkind of went oh, that's why.
That's the reason, you know, Ithink that the moment when I was
(01:17):
wanting to film it and you know, have you need a microphone in
each stage, you want to have ascreen in each stage, because a
lot of people were saying theyneeded PowerPoint and whatever,
and I was trying to talk peopleout of that, the speakers, but
they were very keen to havePowerPoint.
Oh, it sounds exciting.
And so we went to aprofessional because people are
saying you need to be able tosee this.
Like people have paid hundredsof dollars to come to this
(01:37):
festival slash conference.
You can't have PowerPoint thatno one can see.
And so we went to aprofessional and they said oh
yeah, no problem, we can putthose screens up.
We'll need a tech person and anAV person, no problem, that's
going to cost you between$30,000 and $40,000, right?
AJ (01:51):
Yeah.
Matthew (01:52):
So that's the moment where I went, holy moly, we'd
already got a forecast that wewere going to lose 30 grand on
the event before we got thatquote.
And you, the event before wegot that quote, and it you kind
of went oh, that's why you don'thave a screen in every tent,
that's why you don't do in themiddle of a paddock, because you
have to have power.
Yeah, you know.
But what was amazing?
Anthony and I was a bit brokenby the experience, but only
(02:15):
because we tried to do a bit toomuch, like, I ended up having
40 speakers, we ended up having65.
I thought we'd have 42 sessions, we ended up having 86 sessions
over two days.
Yeah, you know, this is nosmall thing that we did, but
every step of the way.
So when I was like, oh my God,how are we going to put up a
screen, my filmmaker friend saidwell, I've got a projector for
(02:36):
one of the tents, you know.
And Sadie said I know a techperson, so you don't have to
employ someone at you know$1,000 a day which is what I was
being quoted to make sure thatthe PowerPoint runs properly.
They do all the computers atthe school where she teaches,
you know, oh, we need to do somesignage.
(02:57):
Well, I know how I'll just comeand hand, paint old Apple
palette boards and do all yoursignage for you.
And people stepped into the roomand the thing that blew me away
, anthony, like I put in a quitelarge effort, but I was
surrounded by goodwill and itwas only at the very last speech
(03:18):
, like sort of saying thanks forcoming, that I realised that we
had only paid at that point andwe have to pay a lot of people
since.
But at that point we had donethis event, as I say you know,
over 60 speakers, over 80presentations, two and a half
days of full-on stuff happeningon the farm.
We had paid one person, eighthours a week for some admin for
(03:39):
about three months and by thetime the festival was on, no one
had been paid for the previousthree months because I was time
the festival was on.
No one had been paid for theprevious three months because I
was doing all the admin and itwas all done on the good energy
and the good vibes and thegoodwill of the people who
wanted to see it happen, andthat blew me away.
I'm getting goosebumps justthinking about it.
AJ (04:00):
Yeah, me too.
Yeah, no, I think of how youonly experienced that because
you stuck your neck so far outas well.
But then the person who can dothat is game enough to do that.
Wow what it can animate inothers yeah look, I.
Matthew (04:17):
I think I was lucky because I mean we've run
hospitality stuff, we've donelearning things on the farm,
I've been to events so I hadsome idea of what kind of worked
and what didn't.
One of the most beautifulthings that happened was we.
We opened our house as a bit ofa space where it was a quiet
space.
Um, it certainly wasn't.
At six in the morning when dankittredge is there cooking eggs
(04:39):
for 12 people.
There's people sleeping in thelounge room.
There's dan kittredge, you knowfrom massachusetts, wherever he
, you know, cooking eggs andgoing.
Oh, there's another person Iwalk in from milking.
Someone grabs my milk churn.
Who's a farmer from New Zealandwho's over-volunteering and
happens to be sleeping in a tentoutside our window and he can
recognise that I've just, youknow, got the good milk in my
hand.
He starts making coffees.
(04:59):
But during the day the house wasthis sort of haven and you know
the Rebanks, helen Rebanks andone of her sons.
They were jet lagged from theUK, so they slept in the house
and had a little quiet moment.
We had this beautiful woman whoused to work with us, who
volunteered to just make peoplecomfortable, or the speakers
comfortable, and would sort ofinsist they have a cup of tea
(05:21):
and a pastry and a sit downbefore their session.
And so people fulfilled allthese little roles and we stuck
our neck out.
Well, I stuck my neck out, butkind of knowing that around me
were some people who had someskills and hoping that all of
the things that I am incapableof doing, there would be someone
who might be capable of doingit.
(05:41):
And if not, you know we also.
Everything was done with goodintentions, everything was done
trying to make things nice andgood, and I think it was a very
forgiving audience as well.
Yeah, beautiful.
Is it time to bring Zadie intothe fray?
Hey, how are you?
And I think it was a veryforgiving audience as well?
AJ (05:55):
Yeah, beautiful, is it time to bring Sadie into the?
Hey, how are you?
Sadie (06:00):
Hello Anthony.
AJ (06:01):
Welcome.
Sadie (06:02):
Thank you, thank you.
AJ (06:03):
I feel like I've been waiting to say that to you for a
long time.
It's great to see you.
Sadie (06:09):
Very nice to see you too In wherever you are, because I
obviously missed the beginning.
Oh yeah, guatemala.
AJ (06:15):
I'm in Guatemala at the moment.
It's an old home of mine.
Sadie (06:19):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I know that from listeningto the podcast I knew you were
going down there.
Oh, fantastic.
AJ (06:24):
Yes, I'm not yet back where I used to live, but we're en
route.
It's a smallish country but,relatively speaking, to get
between places because it's verymountainous, dramatically
changing climates and, of course, logistical stuff, so nowhere
goes anywhere terribly fast.
Sadie (06:41):
Well, that's a nice way to live for a while.
AJ (06:45):
Exactly it is.
It's timely that it's the endof the year and I need to take
the foot off the pedal a bit too, but also very surreal that I'm
here again and with the familyand yeah, I'm bracing myself
partly, to be honest, 20 yearson, like what's a town, a small
dusty town, gonna look likethese days, and who's there and
(07:05):
who's not, and who's died andwho's born, and what school kids
are now grandparents?
I don't know.
Um, it all happens pretty quickthere.
So so, yeah, we'll see.
But back to you.
You've come in at this pointwhere we're just talking as much
about the um, the task ofpulling it off and to get as
real as possible, sort of withthat to really convey some of
(07:28):
the depths of the experienceoutside of the the party.
How was it for you?
I?
Sadie (07:33):
largely ignored it for six months.
AJ (07:38):
Just the yes, dear.
Sadie (07:39):
Yeah, pretty much the deal was and Matthew may have
already said this the deal wasthat he could have his
ridiculous festival but that Iwanted nothing to do with it.
He wasn't allowed to call on meand he stuck to that Like he
really did.
I mean, it helps, I now work, Inow teach off farm, so I'm gone
four days a week and the fifthday I'm still doing sort of
(08:01):
teaching things and catching upthings.
So I wasn't available either.
But he would work, you know,long into the night.
He would have, you know, wewould have family dinner
together and then he'd be up atthe kitchen bench back on his
computer emailing speakers andanswering questions and asking
questions.
I mean it was a massive,massive administrative effort to
make it all happen.
So I really didn't come inuntil the last minute, like I
(08:24):
took a week off work and Iworked the week of the festival
itself.
So that was my maincontribution, that and making
sure that you know Matthew wasBen Wharton for the six months
before.
AJ (08:38):
Well, having a partner who does a bit of that here as well,
that's not to be taken lightly.
And in that context, then theburst experience for you.
How did it look through youreyes and how did it feel?
Matthew (08:51):
I think we need to start with when she first looked
at the program and realisedexactly what I was doing, which
was on the Saturday eyes and howdid it feel?
I think we need to start withwhen she first looked at the
program and realized exactlywhat I was doing, which was on
the Saturday before the.
You know you kicked off withthe Tuesday cocktail parties.
This is the Saturday beforeshe's taken the week off.
Sadie (09:05):
She looks at the program and I don't remember what did I
do what?
Matthew (09:09):
the hell, did you do, what on earth?
And then she cried.
Then, then she swore, and thenshe left the house for six hours
.
Did I, yep?
And I told our son she can'teven remember this and she told
our son Sorry.
I told our son that naturesometimes has a way of saying
beware.
(09:29):
And the way your mother justbehaved means beware, do not go
near, don't touch.
It's like a snake when itflattens its head.
You know, that's kind.
There's a warning sign there.
Hedley, you and I, let's not gonear Sadie for a few hours and
let her come back Anyway.
(09:50):
So that was the Saturday,anyway, you can tell us Very
good.
It wasn't good, Anthony.
AJ (09:55):
No, well, exactly.
So this is what I'm reallyinterested in the actual lived
experience in the background ofoh shit.
Sadie (10:03):
Pulling something like that off.
AJ (10:04):
Yeah.
Sadie (10:06):
It's sort of actually how Matthew and I have run our
lives since the very beginningis that we've given off more
than we can chew.
And then both of us areextremely stubborn and we have
to make it happen Like there'sno room to go.
Maybe we shouldn't do this.
It's like, once you've sort ofmade the decision and you're
going with it, so you just doand you just.
If it means you have to stay uplater or get up earlier or move
(10:28):
faster, then that's just whathas to happen.
I think this festival hastaught me that.
I am now.
AJ (10:35):
I'm now 57, and I don't want to live my life like that
anymore.
Sadie (10:38):
I would actually like to slow down and plan things a bit
and give, you know, have a bitmore space around each project
to actually let it finish andwrap up and just settle really.
But yes, that first weekend Irealised I had to get from sort
of zero to a hundred, um, very,very quickly and get my head
around things about what washappening and what needed to
(11:00):
happen and what my jobs would be.
Once it all got got rolling andthat's what it was, it was just
like moving really really fast,um, making sure that all the
volunteers had what they neededto do, the jobs they volunteered
for, to make sure that all thekitchen staff were supported,
because that would normally beMatthew's job but he wasn't
available to do that and my jobis often the people support and
(11:27):
making sure that the people whoare I mean, it was the same when
we had staff in the restaurantas well is just to make sure
that people were happy workinghere and therefore to do their
best, and that's what I slippedinto pretty easily.
AJ (11:41):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, so you've got the skills,obviously in the background,
but huge job nonetheless, and sohow was your experience of it
then actually?
So the festival was amazing.
Sadie (11:51):
The festival was absolutely amazing.
So once the speakers startedarriving and no one really knew
what it was going to be, andthey would arrive, and there
were these massive marquees andthere were flags and there was
bunting and there werehand-painted signs and there
were lots of really delightfulpeople welcoming you and
(12:14):
explaining where to go, and Ithink a lot of the speakers were
like oh, wow, okay, this iswhat this is.
AJ (12:21):
Excellent, it was very well organised.
Sadie (12:23):
I think everyone felt that it was.
The vibe was incredibly joyous.
A couple of people have saidsince the festival and Matthew
might go into this that it wasthe kind of there were a lot of
people with very differentopinions and they all chose to
(12:43):
find common ground and they allchose to listen to each other
and they all chose to findsomething in what the other
person said that they couldagree with, and that was a
pretty amazing atmosphere.
AJ (12:56):
Yeah, that is awesome and it reminds me Matthew and I did
want to come back to this ofwhat we talked about three
months out when I first saw thesort of draft program and I was
struck by the inquiring natureof the program.
We talked a bit about thatframing and it made me wonder
then what did come out of that,if there was that sort of a vibe
(13:18):
for a start, and then I guesswhat gems may have come out of
it yeah, after our conversationthat was really interesting, I
think, because I hadn't realizedthat lots of the topics were
questions.
Matthew (13:28):
You know, I hadn't sort of picked that and and I think
that after you and I talkedabout it and you brought that up
, I suddenly realized, yeah, soI guess what we're trying to say
is we don't have the answers.
Yeah, maybe some of thesereally clever people have the
answers for your farmer or yourland or whatever.
Maybe they don't.
Maybe you'll come up with theanswers after listening to them.
(13:49):
Maybe someone in the line forthe toilet will have you know
the answer.
Um, whoever you might meethaving a beer afterwards or
whatever it might be.
Um, look, it's hard to know forme.
I didn't really see sessions I,I think what all I I could do,
(14:10):
because I was generally dealingwith, um, a lot of little
on-site, little issues that werenothing major, but just lots of
stuff.
Um, so I was just picking up onthe energy of the event mostly.
Yeah, the energy was good.
People talking about coolthings, testing their brains,
(14:32):
testing out ideas, wanting todiscuss things way beyond.
You know, the 50 minutes orwhatever we allowed in each
marquee and yeah, like a reallylike say you're saying so good
acceptance of other ideas.
Because you know, and right atthe end, that the last three
sessions I just wanted to throwstuff in the air and say, okay,
(14:53):
you've been sitting here for acouple of days listening to
stuff, but let's just, let'sjust blue sky.
I think, yes, let's think ofhow we can look at the world
differently and and I think alot of that was happening anyway
, you know, we didn't maybe needto structure it like that.
There was already people sortof trying to take concepts and
work out how they worked forthem.
You know, and I don't know whatwere the magic moments.
(15:14):
For me, the magic moments werethe madness on the farm, you
know, like waking up and going.
I think there's 35 people.
We have a two-bedroom house.
You know there's like 12 people.
You know, in the kitchen havingbreakfast at 6am, there's
something like 35 peoplesleeping on the farm in various
places.
There's this whole communityand thing that just appeared and
(15:36):
disappeared, you know, sort ofa day before the event and a day
after the event.
It just sort of you knowappears, and for me that was the
wonder was how something sotransient or whatever, so
Ephemeral Ephemeral, yeah, justcan actually have so much
(15:59):
resonance.
AJ (16:00):
All right.
So was there some music out ofthe festival that perhaps
captured you as well that wecould make mention of here.
Matthew (16:08):
Yeah, so we had an incredible trio.
A woman named Claire Ann Taylorcame, and I think it's called
my Mother is a Mountain.
Sadie (16:16):
That's funny.
Matthew (16:19):
Yeah.
Sadie (16:19):
My Mother, the Mountain.
Matthew (16:20):
My Mother the Mountain.
So Claire's, I think, born downin this part of the world and
lives down in this part of theworld, and so the idea that the
I think it's about Kunanyi,Mount Wellington, my Mother the
Mountain.
Yeah, she writes songs thathave a lot of resonance and
she's got this beautiful husky,you know, voice.
Yeah, I have to say I walkedinto the because it was a bit
(16:44):
separate from where theconference bits were and I
walked in having dealt with thewoman with the migraine and
dealt with a few you know, thetoilets running out of water and
all the things that we dealtwith during the day, all the
tiny little, you know, admin andI walked in and there's Claire
belting out this song and Ireckon my smile stretched, you
know, around the back of my headbecause I was just like, oh my
(17:07):
God, we got through it and we'vegot this incredible music and
everyone's having conversations.
I just stood there and watchedlike 13 different conversations
happening while she was singing,you know, and yeah, it was just
beautiful.
AJ (17:20):
Beautiful.
I'm so glad you got that moment, matthew, where you got to take
it in that way.
That's awesome.
And Sadie, for you, did you getto pick up some?
Sadie (17:29):
I was just elbowing Matthew, then going Claire Ann
Taylor.
Claire Ann Taylor.
AJ (17:32):
Oh, there we go.
I booked her, I remember her.
Matthew (17:37):
Yeah, I remember her.
Sadie (17:38):
We had this other beautiful singer too, Esther
Cook, who for her.
We had this other beautifulsinger too, Esther Cook, who
runs the local Whole Foods shop.
Oh, there we go.
So she came for the cocktailparty because she has this
insane sort of soul-like voice,love it.
And she came with a guitaristand they did sort of standards
and it was really and folk songs, it was very beautiful, very
(17:58):
beautiful, and I like howdistant from the original what
have you done?
AJ (18:04):
moment where you went apart, you left the building that
actually, at the end, with thispinnacle moment of thinking
about the music, you are utterlyunited.
That's symbolic and a greatplace to end.
I can't thank you enough.
I'm blown away that you guyspulled this off and your team
and I, you know, personally hopethere's another one.
Matthew (18:24):
I'll get to get that one yeah, yeah because you might
be back I have to say, whenterry was stuck in sydney, who
was supposed to be looking aftera whole tent for you know,
running a tent for a day, andwe're like, oh, we just have to
find someone to fill in.
Um, there was this moment ofwell.
If, anthony was here anyway, weluckily we got kirsten bradley
(18:47):
from milkwood who did the mostincredible job.
You know 8, 30 at night.
Hey guess what?
At 8 tomorrow morning you'vegot to be on stage for five
hours and she, um, so she pulledit off.
But there was this thing oflike oh, luckily we have friends
who can do this sort of stuff Itell you, this is the thing.
AJ (19:01):
The pieces are there, aren't they?
We have the people can do thissort of stuff.
I tell you, this is the thing.
The pieces are there, aren'tthey?
We have the people and theskills.
That's a great example, andKirsten's another person.
I look forward to meeting atsome stage, and there would have
been many at that festival.
So, yeah, I hope there'sanother one.
I will definitely be there.
We are going to be back for atleast the Region WA conference
in Perth in September, but butthanks for speaking with me,
(19:24):
guys.
I'm so glad you were both here.
Thanks, sadie.
Look forward to seeing you whenwe're back.
It's somewhere sometime see youon one side of the country or
another thanks again, sadie, forbeing here too, and thanks for
your support of this as well.
Matthew (19:34):
Cheers guys see ya a when I die, I'll live only your
smile.
AJ (19:53):
Oh, for years after, I'll be right there in your laughter.
Sadie (20:07):
O di
Matthew (20:17):
I'll live on in your smile For years after, I'll be
right there in your laughter.
(20:39):
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah.
Before I ask you about some highlights, I don't want to let
pass too quickly though thephysical, visceral experience of
it for you.
Setting something up like thisfrom the get-go you mentioned
the word broken to me even inour little exchange after before
.
This Give us a bit of aninsight, as raw as it may be.
So we get a glimpse of behindthe curtain in that way that
(00:23):
feels important and perhapsinstructive for those who might
be thinking of other stuff infuture too, but also to perhaps
help out next time or justappreciate what goes into it.
Matthew (00:34):
Yeah, it was interesting.
We had a couple of people whowere on site, who've run things
before, you know, field days orthat kind of stuff, and they
looked at what we were doing andthey were the people who, I
guess, like a parent, you know,until you've been a parent and
you've had your own toddlerscreaming in the supermarket,
you know don't understand whatother people are going through.
(00:54):
So, look, I have to say I hadno idea what I was getting into
and I was kind of like, well,why don't we have three tents in
the middle of paddocks?
Why don't we just film it all?
Why don't we just have it onfarm?
You know, and every step, youkind of went oh, that's why.
That's the reason, you know, Ithink that the moment when I was
(01:17):
wanting to film it and you know, have you need a microphone in
each stage, you want to have ascreen in each stage, because a
lot of people were saying theyneeded PowerPoint and whatever,
and I was trying to talk peopleout of that, the speakers, but
they were very keen to havePowerPoint.
Oh, it sounds exciting.
And so we went to aprofessional because people are
saying you need to be able tosee this.
Like people have paid hundredsof dollars to come to this
(01:37):
festival slash conference.
You can't have PowerPoint thatno one can see.
And so we went to aprofessional and they said oh
yeah, no problem, we can putthose screens up.
We'll need a tech person and anAV person, no problem, that's
going to cost you between$30,000 and $40,000, right?
AJ (01:51):
Yeah.
Matthew (01:52):
So that's the moment where I went, holy moly, we'd
already got a forecast that wewere going to lose 30 grand on
the event before we got thatquote.
And you, the event before wegot that quote, and it you kind
of went oh, that's why you don'thave a screen in every tent,
that's why you don't do in themiddle of a paddock, because you
have to have power.
Yeah, you know.
But what was amazing?
Anthony and I was a bit brokenby the experience, but only
(02:15):
because we tried to do a bit toomuch, like, I ended up having
40 speakers, we ended up having65.
I thought we'd have 42 sessions, we ended up having 86 sessions
over two days.
Yeah, you know, this is nosmall thing that we did, but
every step of the way.
So when I was like, oh my God,how are we going to put up a
screen, my filmmaker friend saidwell, I've got a projector for
(02:36):
one of the tents, you know.
And Sadie said I know a techperson, so you don't have to
employ someone at you know$1,000 a day which is what I was
being quoted to make sure thatthe PowerPoint runs properly.
They do all the computers atthe school where she teaches,
you know, oh, we need to do somesignage.
(02:57):
Well, I know how I'll just comeand hand, paint old Apple
palette boards and do all yoursignage for you.
And people stepped into the roomand the thing that blew me away
, anthony, like I put in a quitelarge effort, but I was
surrounded by goodwill and itwas only at the very last speech
(03:18):
, like sort of saying thanks forcoming, that I realised that we
had only paid at that point andwe have to pay a lot of people
since.
But at that point we had donethis event, as I say you know,
over 60 speakers, over 80presentations, two and a half
days of full-on stuff happeningon the farm.
We had paid one person, eighthours a week for some admin for
(03:39):
about three months and by thetime the festival was on, no one
had been paid for the previousthree months because I was time
the festival was on.
No one had been paid for theprevious three months because I
was doing all the admin and itwas all done on the good energy
and the good vibes and thegoodwill of the people who
wanted to see it happen, andthat blew me away.
I'm getting goosebumps justthinking about it.
AJ (04:00):
Yeah, me too.
Yeah, no, I think of how youonly experienced that because
you stuck your neck so far outas well.
But then the person who can dothat is game enough to do that.
Wow what it can animate inothers yeah look, I.
Matthew (04:17):
I think I was lucky because I mean we've run
hospitality stuff, we've donelearning things on the farm,
I've been to events so I hadsome idea of what kind of worked
and what didn't.
One of the most beautifulthings that happened was we.
We opened our house as a bit ofa space where it was a quiet
space.
Um, it certainly wasn't.
At six in the morning when dankittredge is there cooking eggs
(04:39):
for 12 people.
There's people sleeping in thelounge room.
There's dan kittredge, you knowfrom massachusetts, wherever he
, you know, cooking eggs andgoing.
Oh, there's another person Iwalk in from milking.
Someone grabs my milk churn.
Who's a farmer from New Zealandwho's over-volunteering and
happens to be sleeping in a tentoutside our window and he can
recognise that I've just, youknow, got the good milk in my
hand.
He starts making coffees.
(04:59):
But during the day the house wasthis sort of haven and you know
the Rebanks, helen Rebanks andone of her sons.
They were jet lagged from theUK, so they slept in the house
and had a little quiet moment.
We had this beautiful woman whoused to work with us, who
volunteered to just make peoplecomfortable, or the speakers
comfortable, and would sort ofinsist they have a cup of tea
(05:21):
and a pastry and a sit downbefore their session.
And so people fulfilled allthese little roles and we stuck
our neck out.
Well, I stuck my neck out, butkind of knowing that around me
were some people who had someskills and hoping that all of
the things that I am incapableof doing, there would be someone
who might be capable of doingit.
(05:41):
And if not, you know we also.
Everything was done with goodintentions, everything was done
trying to make things nice andgood, and I think it was a very
forgiving audience as well.
Yeah, beautiful.
Is it time to bring Zadie intothe fray?
Hey, how are you?
And I think it was a veryforgiving audience as well?
AJ (05:55):
Yeah, beautiful, is it time to bring Sadie into the?
Hey, how are you?
Sadie (06:00):
Hello Anthony.
AJ (06:01):
Welcome.
Sadie (06:02):
Thank you, thank you.
AJ (06:03):
I feel like I've been waiting to say that to you for a
long time.
It's great to see you.
Sadie (06:09):
Very nice to see you too In wherever you are, because I
obviously missed the beginning.
Oh yeah, guatemala.
AJ (06:15):
I'm in Guatemala at the moment.
It's an old home of mine.
Sadie (06:19):
Yeah, yeah.
No, I know that from listeningto the podcast I knew you were
going down there.
Oh, fantastic.
AJ (06:24):
Yes, I'm not yet back where I used to live, but we're en
route.
It's a smallish country but,relatively speaking, to get
between places because it's verymountainous, dramatically
changing climates and, of course, logistical stuff, so nowhere
goes anywhere terribly fast.
Sadie (06:41):
Well, that's a nice way to live for a while.
AJ (06:45):
Exactly it is.
It's timely that it's the endof the year and I need to take
the foot off the pedal a bit too, but also very surreal that I'm
here again and with the familyand yeah, I'm bracing myself
partly, to be honest, 20 yearson, like what's a town, a small
dusty town, gonna look likethese days, and who's there and
(07:05):
who's not, and who's died andwho's born, and what school kids
are now grandparents?
I don't know.
Um, it all happens pretty quickthere.
So so, yeah, we'll see.
But back to you.
You've come in at this pointwhere we're just talking as much
about the um, the task ofpulling it off and to get as
real as possible, sort of withthat to really convey some of
(07:28):
the depths of the experienceoutside of the the party.
How was it for you?
I?
Sadie (07:33):
largely ignored it for six months.
AJ (07:38):
Just the yes, dear.
Sadie (07:39):
Yeah, pretty much the deal was and Matthew may have
already said this the deal wasthat he could have his
ridiculous festival but that Iwanted nothing to do with it.
He wasn't allowed to call on meand he stuck to that Like he
really did.
I mean, it helps, I now work, Inow teach off farm, so I'm gone
four days a week and the fifthday I'm still doing sort of
(08:01):
teaching things and catching upthings.
So I wasn't available either.
But he would work, you know,long into the night.
He would have, you know, wewould have family dinner
together and then he'd be up atthe kitchen bench back on his
computer emailing speakers andanswering questions and asking
questions.
I mean it was a massive,massive administrative effort to
make it all happen.
So I really didn't come inuntil the last minute, like I
(08:24):
took a week off work and Iworked the week of the festival
itself.
So that was my maincontribution, that and making
sure that you know Matthew wasBen Wharton for the six months
before.
AJ (08:38):
Well, having a partner who does a bit of that here as well,
that's not to be taken lightly.
And in that context, then theburst experience for you.
How did it look through youreyes and how did it feel?
Matthew (08:51):
I think we need to start with when she first looked
at the program and realisedexactly what I was doing, which
was on the Saturday eyes and howdid it feel?
I think we need to start withwhen she first looked at the
program and realized exactlywhat I was doing, which was on
the Saturday before the.
You know you kicked off withthe Tuesday cocktail parties.
This is the Saturday beforeshe's taken the week off.
Sadie (09:05):
She looks at the program and I don't remember what did I
do what?
Matthew (09:09):
the hell, did you do, what on earth?
And then she cried.
Then, then she swore, and thenshe left the house for six hours
.
Did I, yep?
And I told our son she can'teven remember this and she told
our son Sorry.
I told our son that naturesometimes has a way of saying
beware.
(09:29):
And the way your mother justbehaved means beware, do not go
near, don't touch.
It's like a snake when itflattens its head.
You know, that's kind.
There's a warning sign there.
Hedley, you and I, let's not gonear Sadie for a few hours and
let her come back Anyway.
(09:50):
So that was the Saturday,anyway, you can tell us Very
good.
It wasn't good, Anthony.
AJ (09:55):
No, well, exactly.
So this is what I'm reallyinterested in the actual lived
experience in the background ofoh shit.
Sadie (10:03):
Pulling something like that off.
AJ (10:04):
Yeah.
Sadie (10:06):
It's sort of actually how Matthew and I have run our
lives since the very beginningis that we've given off more
than we can chew.
And then both of us areextremely stubborn and we have
to make it happen Like there'sno room to go.
Maybe we shouldn't do this.
It's like, once you've sort ofmade the decision and you're
going with it, so you just doand you just.
If it means you have to stay uplater or get up earlier or move
(10:28):
faster, then that's just whathas to happen.
I think this festival hastaught me that.
I am now.
AJ (10:35):
I'm now 57, and I don't want to live my life like that
anymore.
Sadie (10:38):
I would actually like to slow down and plan things a bit
and give, you know, have a bitmore space around each project
to actually let it finish andwrap up and just settle really.
But yes, that first weekend Irealised I had to get from sort
of zero to a hundred, um, very,very quickly and get my head
around things about what washappening and what needed to
(11:00):
happen and what my jobs would be.
Once it all got got rolling andthat's what it was, it was just
like moving really really fast,um, making sure that all the
volunteers had what they neededto do, the jobs they volunteered
for, to make sure that all thekitchen staff were supported,
because that would normally beMatthew's job but he wasn't
available to do that and my jobis often the people support and
(11:27):
making sure that the people whoare I mean, it was the same when
we had staff in the restaurantas well is just to make sure
that people were happy workinghere and therefore to do their
best, and that's what I slippedinto pretty easily.
AJ (11:41):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, so you've got the skills,obviously in the background,
but huge job nonetheless, and sohow was your experience of it
then actually?
So the festival was amazing.
Sadie (11:51):
The festival was absolutely amazing.
So once the speakers startedarriving and no one really knew
what it was going to be, andthey would arrive, and there
were these massive marquees andthere were flags and there was
bunting and there werehand-painted signs and there
were lots of really delightfulpeople welcoming you and
(12:14):
explaining where to go, and Ithink a lot of the speakers were
like oh, wow, okay, this iswhat this is.
AJ (12:21):
Excellent, it was very well organised.
Sadie (12:23):
I think everyone felt that it was.
The vibe was incredibly joyous.
A couple of people have saidsince the festival and Matthew
might go into this that it wasthe kind of there were a lot of
people with very differentopinions and they all chose to
(12:43):
find common ground and they allchose to listen to each other
and they all chose to findsomething in what the other
person said that they couldagree with, and that was a
pretty amazing atmosphere.
AJ (12:56):
Yeah, that is awesome and it reminds me Matthew and I did
want to come back to this ofwhat we talked about three
months out when I first saw thesort of draft program and I was
struck by the inquiring natureof the program.
We talked a bit about thatframing and it made me wonder
then what did come out of that,if there was that sort of a vibe
(13:18):
for a start, and then I guesswhat gems may have come out of
it yeah, after our conversationthat was really interesting, I
think, because I hadn't realizedthat lots of the topics were
questions.
Matthew (13:28):
You know, I hadn't sort of picked that and and I think
that after you and I talkedabout it and you brought that up
, I suddenly realized, yeah, soI guess what we're trying to say
is we don't have the answers.
Yeah, maybe some of thesereally clever people have the
answers for your farmer or yourland or whatever.
Maybe they don't.
Maybe you'll come up with theanswers after listening to them.
(13:49):
Maybe someone in the line forthe toilet will have you know
the answer.
Um, whoever you might meethaving a beer afterwards or
whatever it might be.
Um, look, it's hard to know forme.
I didn't really see sessions I,I think what all I I could do,
(14:10):
because I was generally dealingwith, um, a lot of little
on-site, little issues that werenothing major, but just lots of
stuff.
Um, so I was just picking up onthe energy of the event mostly.
Yeah, the energy was good.
People talking about coolthings, testing their brains,
(14:32):
testing out ideas, wanting todiscuss things way beyond.
You know, the 50 minutes orwhatever we allowed in each
marquee and yeah, like a reallylike say you're saying so good
acceptance of other ideas.
Because you know, and right atthe end, that the last three
sessions I just wanted to throwstuff in the air and say, okay,
(14:53):
you've been sitting here for acouple of days listening to
stuff, but let's just, let'sjust blue sky.
I think, yes, let's think ofhow we can look at the world
differently and and I think alot of that was happening anyway
, you know, we didn't maybe needto structure it like that.
There was already people sortof trying to take concepts and
work out how they worked forthem.
You know, and I don't know whatwere the magic moments.
(15:14):
For me, the magic moments werethe madness on the farm, you
know, like waking up and going.
I think there's 35 people.
We have a two-bedroom house.
You know there's like 12 people.
You know, in the kitchen havingbreakfast at 6am, there's
something like 35 peoplesleeping on the farm in various
places.
There's this whole communityand thing that just appeared and
(15:36):
disappeared, you know, sort ofa day before the event and a day
after the event.
It just sort of you knowappears, and for me that was the
wonder was how something sotransient or whatever, so
Ephemeral Ephemeral, yeah, justcan actually have so much
(15:59):
resonance.
AJ (16:00):
All right.
So was there some music out ofthe festival that perhaps
captured you as well that wecould make mention of here.
Matthew (16:08):
Yeah, so we had an incredible trio.
A woman named Claire Ann Taylorcame, and I think it's called
my Mother is a Mountain.
Sadie (16:16):
That's funny.
Matthew (16:19):
Yeah.
Sadie (16:19):
My Mother, the Mountain.
Matthew (16:20):
My Mother the Mountain.
So Claire's, I think, born downin this part of the world and
lives down in this part of theworld, and so the idea that the
I think it's about Kunanyi,Mount Wellington, my Mother the
Mountain.
Yeah, she writes songs thathave a lot of resonance and
she's got this beautiful husky,you know, voice.
Yeah, I have to say I walkedinto the because it was a bit
(16:44):
separate from where theconference bits were and I
walked in having dealt with thewoman with the migraine and
dealt with a few you know, thetoilets running out of water and
all the things that we dealtwith during the day, all the
tiny little, you know, admin andI walked in and there's Claire
belting out this song and Ireckon my smile stretched, you
know, around the back of my headbecause I was just like, oh my
(17:07):
God, we got through it and we'vegot this incredible music and
everyone's having conversations.
I just stood there and watchedlike 13 different conversations
happening while she was singing,you know, and yeah, it was just
beautiful.
AJ (17:20):
Beautiful.
I'm so glad you got that moment, matthew, where you got to take
it in that way.
That's awesome.
And Sadie, for you, did you getto pick up some?
Sadie (17:29):
I was just elbowing Matthew, then going Claire Ann
Taylor.
Claire Ann Taylor.
AJ (17:32):
Oh, there we go.
I booked her, I remember her.
Matthew (17:37):
Yeah, I remember her.
Sadie (17:38):
We had this other beautiful singer too, Esther
Cook, who for her.
We had this other beautifulsinger too, Esther Cook, who
runs the local Whole Foods shop.
Oh, there we go.
So she came for the cocktailparty because she has this
insane sort of soul-like voice,love it.
And she came with a guitaristand they did sort of standards
and it was really and folk songs, it was very beautiful, very
(17:58):
beautiful, and I like howdistant from the original what
have you done?
AJ (18:04):
moment where you went apart, you left the building that
actually, at the end, with thispinnacle moment of thinking
about the music, you are utterlyunited.
That's symbolic and a greatplace to end.
I can't thank you enough.
I'm blown away that you guyspulled this off and your team
and I, you know, personally hopethere's another one.
Matthew (18:24):
I'll get to get that one yeah, yeah because you might
be back I have to say, whenterry was stuck in sydney, who
was supposed to be looking aftera whole tent for you know,
running a tent for a day, andwe're like, oh, we just have to
find someone to fill in.
Um, there was this moment ofwell.
If, anthony was here anyway, weluckily we got kirsten bradley
(18:47):
from milkwood who did the mostincredible job.
You know 8, 30 at night.
Hey guess what?
At 8 tomorrow morning you'vegot to be on stage for five
hours and she, um, so she pulledit off.
But there was this thing oflike oh, luckily we have friends
who can do this sort of stuff Itell you, this is the thing.
AJ (19:01):
The pieces are there, aren't they?
We have the people can do thissort of stuff.
I tell you, this is the thing.
The pieces are there, aren'tthey?
We have the people and theskills.
That's a great example, andKirsten's another person.
I look forward to meeting atsome stage, and there would have
been many at that festival.
So, yeah, I hope there'sanother one.
I will definitely be there.
We are going to be back for atleast the Region WA conference
in Perth in September, but butthanks for speaking with me,
(19:24):
guys.
I'm so glad you were both here.
Thanks, sadie.
Look forward to seeing you whenwe're back.
It's somewhere sometime see youon one side of the country or
another thanks again, sadie, forbeing here too, and thanks for
your support of this as well.
Matthew (19:34):
Cheers guys see ya a when I die, I'll live only your
smile.
AJ (19:53):
Oh, for years after, I'll be right there in your laughter.
Sadie (20:07):
O di
Matthew (20:17):
I'll live on in your smile For years after, I'll be
right there in your laughter.
(20:39):
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah.
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