October 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Ever since the extraordinary week of events here in Western Australia last month, from a reception at Government House for former podcast guests and current West Australians of the Year, Di and Ian Haggerty, through to the 2-day Regenerating Food Systems conference at Perth Stadium, and on to the 2-day Grounded Festival down south near Bridgetown, and plenty more besides, I’ve been wondering what might hold up to share with you here on the podcast.
In short, I’ve got a few things you might enjoy hearing. Starting today, with the very first panel of the Regenerating Food Systems conference (with thanks to the team at RegenWA).
It features five special guests: prominent writer, broadcaster, chef turned farmer, and founder of Grounded Festival Matthew Evans, globally renowned plant and soil health educator and consultant Joel Williams, nationally recognised Indigenous leader and regenerative land manager Oral McGuire, award-winning farmer and RegenWA Chair Stuart McAlpine, and soil and gut microbiome researcher Dr Craig Liddicoat (yes, mighty men's business - mighty women's business closed the day).
I start by asking each of our guests for fire starters, and it takes off from there.
Recorded 17 September 2025.
Title image: AJ, Matthew, Joel, Oral, Stuart and Craig (pic: Paolo Sulit).
See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.
Find more:
RegenWA’s written debrief on the conference.
The WA Governor's introduction of the conference.
Oral McGuire's appearance on SBS News.
Music:
Citadel by Ardie Son (sourced from Artlist).
Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.
The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.
The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. We'd love you to join us.
Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.
Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.
While you can also visit The RegenNarration shop. Come to an event. And please do share, rate and review the podcast.
Thanks for your support!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
AJ (00:10):
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely availablelistener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Ever since the extraordinaryweek of events here in Western
Australia last month, from areception at Government House
for my friends, former podcastguests, and West Australians of
(00:30):
the Year, Di and Haggerty,through to the two-day
regenerating food systemsconference at Perth Stadium, and
onto the two-day GroundedFestival down south near
Bridgetown, and plenty morebesides, I've been wondering
what might hold up to share withyou here on the podcast.
In short, I've got a few thingsyou might enjoy hearing.
(00:50):
Starting today, with the veryfirst panel of the Regenerating
Food Systems Conference, withthanks to the team at Regen WA.
This was the one panel I hostedalongside MC duties at the
conference.
It features five special guestswho I introduce off the top,
except for Dr.
Craig Liddicoat, as he justdelivered his keynote.
(01:12):
Craig's a soil and gutmicrobiome researcher at
Flinders University in SouthAustralia.
Our session was titled HealthySoil, Healthy Food, Healthy
People.
I start by asking for firestarters in the form of what's
front of mind for everyone rightnow.
I'm going to invite four otherspecial guests to the stage to
(01:34):
join Craig.
It's a stellar cast.
Firstly, would you pleasewelcome back to the stage Regen
WA Chair Stuart McAlpine.
Thanks, Stuart.
And joining Stuart and Craig,Oral McGuire is a Noongar leader
and landholder.
The regeneration of that landis something to behold.
In fact, Chris Tan's filming upthe back, and he was out at the
(01:57):
property the other day, sostand by on SBS and NITV for
that later this week, I believe.
Oral's vision is for thepromotion of an entrepreneurial
culture within and among theNoongar people of Western
Australia and other Aboriginalcultural groups.
Fitting, Oral should be takingthe stage here at a footy
stadium, too.
As I'm reliably informed, hewas named part of the Aboriginal
(02:19):
Team of the Century for thePerth Demons Footy Club.
And not only that, he wascalled the strongest man at the
club, as a rookie, no less.
He was also aptly named after apreacher and dubbed the
Reverend here six years ago inthis very room.
Please welcome Oral McGuire.
(02:40):
Joel Williams is an independentplant and soil health educator
and consultant who has workedextensively in Australia, Europe
and Canada where he iscurrently based.
I probably don't even need tointroduce Joel to many of you.
He was, however, originallyfrom Brizzy and true to my heart
was an avid live music fan.
(03:02):
And wasn't there plenty of itin that city back then?
Joel got his Bachelor ofAgricultural Science in
Australia, and fascinatingly,his master's in food policy
explored the motivations andbarriers to the enormous
leverage point of moving frommonocrop to intercrop
operations.
And we were talking about theongoing rapid progress in all
(03:22):
that just last night, all theway from North America.
Please welcome Joel Williams.
Matthew Evans is a sh probablydoesn't need an intro either,
does he?
Is a chef turned farmer, writerof 12 books, broadcaster and
founder of Grounded Festival,which will be after this
conference down south.
He co-owns Fat Pig Farm, amixed enterprise on 70 acres
(03:45):
south of Hobart, and for overseven years he ran the on-farm
dining room at Fat Pig with hispartner Sadie, having grown just
about everything served onsite, summing to about 10,000
meals a year.
He's also been the host of sixseasons of Gourmet Farmer on
SBS, fronted two documentaries,and is the author, as I said, of
(04:06):
over a dozen books.
Please give a warm hand toMatthew Evans.
I'd like to come to the newbieson stage, and Craig, we'll come
back to you.
But for you guys, and perhapswe'll just run it like this,
huh?
Having heard what we've heardtoday, and perhaps particularly
with regards to this session onthe link between healthy soil,
(04:28):
plants, people, planet, what'shottest of mind?
I just wonder what's comingfront of mind for you in this
moment to get us started.
Matthew (04:36):
I think for me, the hottest thing is just listening
to Craig, and one of the thingsthat I was thinking about was
the fact that we, you know, whenmy son was born, we were like,
oh, do we need to sterilise thebottles?
And I learned that Royal NorthShore Hospital had said, no,
we're not sterilising bottlesanymore for and dummies for you
know and teats for babies.
(04:57):
And and that now, when I thinkof the microbiome, I think of
the spinach leaf that can have600 different species of
bacteria on it, organicallygrown, of course.
Um and and we know that prettymuch like all of them are either
doing us no good, you know, noharm, and some of them are doing
us uh real good.
And they are, as Craig wastalking about, inoculating,
(05:18):
re-inoculating our gut.
Um but every time if you go andbuy a bag of spinach today,
it'll be bleached.
Um, because the idea is notjust that a hospital has no
bacteria, it's that the ideathat that we're all supposed to
have no bacteria.
Um and I and I was thinkingabout in terms of hospitals when
my mum was in hospital and andthey had uh processed ham and
processed cheese, and I wasreally surprised because you
(05:40):
know I don't think of them asfood, and they I said, Why are
you serving them?
And they said, Well, becausenothing can live on them.
Um, you know.
That's that's in my mind, thatkind of stuff.
Wow.
Joel (05:53):
So I think um, you know, Craig used that word there, uh,
communities a few times, talkingabout microbial community, and
I think that's uh uh maybe avery important link to our wider
communities as we also open theconference here today about us
all coming together, um the therole of these events, um the
(06:14):
role of the community, and usall um doing that interaction
and that the microbes do down inour guts and down in our soils,
and what are the outcomes andfunctions that come from that.
And I think that in that kindof trying to draw a little bit
of another parallel here, it isvery exciting to see the role of
(06:35):
farmer-led events and communityevents coming together
together, and I'll talk a littlebit about this in my
presentation tomorrow.
Um, that really this wholeregenerative movement is clearly
this farmer-led movement, and Ithink that's for me one of the
very exciting things about itthat there is so much learning
(06:55):
happening from the field, fromthe ground up, and it's farmers
really leading the way.
And yes, some of the scienceand research and things are
catching up to that, and alsonow beginning to jump a little
bit ahead of that too.
Yeah, I think there's a bit ofboth of that happening.
But I think for me that's kindof really one of the things that
that does excite me the most.
It's the fact that farmers arecoming together, a community, uh
(07:18):
connecting through socialmedia, through conferences,
through field days, all of thosetypes of things.
And I think that um thefunctions that we provide, um,
that look what are the actionsand the outcomes of this event
and other events is a reallyimportant parallel to also
understanding some of thosefunctions and outcomes of the
gut bioteur and soil bioter aswell.
(07:40):
So I think for me it's thecommunity and the coming
together that's particularly uhexciting.
AJ (07:45):
Yeah, I'm conscious that you have a front row seat to that
in a way, as you get asked byfarmers in groups, in
communities, to come and workwith them on both those levels,
joining the two together.
I do want to, for those who'venoticed, this is a mighty big
group of men on stage.
I want to acknowledge that.
Uh we will end the day with amighty big group of women.
(08:07):
So just so you know, we'rebalancing up.
And of course, Felice Shaka wasintended to be part of this
too, so and then the group justgot big on us at the end.
But who's complaining given whowe've got?
Oral (08:18):
Oral, over to you.
Well, I suppose because Ireplaced Heidi, I'm the token
woman.
I'm the token black.
Um, yeah, I look, it's it'salways interesting.
I find um interactions with um,you know, these types of
communities at these sort offorums um uh challenging a lot
of the time.
(08:38):
So I I expand my thinking umimmeasurably when I attend these
sort of forums and and get toknow individuals.
Uh but what I what is justreaffirmed and reinforced and
and I was at a different forumuh yesterday is the fact that
um, you know, and it's a littlebit of what wall, you know, we
(08:59):
sort of we're the same breed, sowe uh you know we we are a bit
of a neural thinker, uh neuraldisruptor in our thinking.
Um and uh the the truth is thatwhen the these people sailed up
the the river here, and thefirst contact was around the
corner on the river at a placecalled Gumap, better known as
(09:22):
Elizabeth Keek, or Ing Facts andGeorge's Terrace, you know, the
the archaeologists historianssaid that there were two worlds
meeting and colliding.
The Aboriginal people, theNyongara people, the
Weijopnyonga, the MoralWaijokanyonga, were possibly the
healthiest people on the planetat that moment in time.
(09:43):
And the people who were on theboat, because of their just
travel journey, were possiblythe most unhealthy people on the
planet at that moment in time.
So my sense is with all thescience that Craig and Dan and
other wonderful speakers andknowledge holders speak about, I
(10:03):
think the Blackfellas and theIndigenous peoples globally had
something.
And I see and hear so muchscience, so much uh technical
knowledge and technology beingchannelled towards trying to
create something because it'sbeen replaced.
In the wheat belt, right, we'vehad 98% replacement of the
(10:24):
ecology and the systems.
So everything's been changed toa European mindset, but the
land's still the same.
You can't change the land.
So what I'm hearing is thatscience is actually trying to
now create nature through theknowledge of all this stuff
about the health of the soil,the health of plants and food
(10:48):
and in general.
Yet Nyungar people lived in acompletely different landscape.
The previous landscape providedabsolutely for not just 200
years, for the the 20, 30, 40,50, 60, whatever the number that
science is telling us, but formillennia, you know, uh
indigenous peoples maintain ahealth, maintained a level of
(11:11):
health that was not mediocre,like has been described today.
So we're chasing, we're tryingto improve mediocrity with
science, and yet nature is theperfect science.
AJ (11:24):
Thanks, Oral.
It strikes me that the researchis turning up those patterns
all around the world withIndigenous folks.
Yeah.
Stuart.
Stuart (11:39):
Yeah, thanks.
And I think following ontomorrow, I think the watershed
moment for me, after beingexposed to soil biology and
seeing what it could achievewith that immense diversity that
it has in numbers, um, tryingto get my head around that as a
as a white, you know,conventional reductionist
farmer.
And you know, I ran out of bitof time earlier to put up the
(12:00):
three concentric circles of soilhealth, but like it's
embarrassing to think what we'refocused on in food production.
You know, we haven't focused onthe whole, and it's the whole
that's important.
I think one of the watershedmoments for me was actually a
lecture at UWA from a professorJohn Crawford, who who I think
the topic from memory was theself-organizing systems of the
(12:21):
microbiome.
So the the community that wetalk about is self-organizing.
You know, if we let it be.
So it's about actually creatingthe right uh environment for
diversity and all the energythat is captured from natural
processes from the sun andstored in the soil with the
interface with the microbiomeand then the diversity that
(12:43):
grows for a bomb that is justcompletely missing.
It's gone.
Like the energy has been suckedfrom the 98% of the wheat belt.
Unfortunately, you know, we'reprobably never going to get back
to where it was, and we willhave to create something
different.
But just imagine if we startrestoring the living, you know,
(13:07):
the land is a living organismwith all that community that's
going on together.
So just imagine if we can startgetting that living soil
starting, and then the livingbiodiversity below and above
ground, and restoring all thoseenergy cycles, you know, and
rebuilding them and capturingthe bit of energy that is left
in the landscape with with youknow First Nations you know
(13:31):
knowledge and stuff like that aswell.
You know, how much can weachieve, you know?
Um so the so the potential isexponential.
It is only exponential if weall move together as one, like a
community of one.
AJ (13:49):
The One Health, that term you came to us with, Craig.
I wonder for you in thismoment, having heard all that,
and certainly the morning beforeus, what's front of mind for
you?
Craig (13:58):
Yes, I obviously presented a lot of science and
backed by technology, and Iprobably look at too much
science and technology on socialmedia and this sort of thing,
but probably the top of my mindthat is kind of related to all
this is some of the questionsthat we face kind of need to be
asked to society as a whole, andI think the some of the key
challenges are are mental andsocial.
They're not sort of liketechnological so much, and I've
(14:21):
sort of, you know, on the socialmedia you see some pretty big
names that are trying to, youknow, go to Mars and they're
trying to secure mineralresources on the moon and Mars
and this and that, and and umsome of these people uh they're
saying um you know there's twooptions here.
We can we can consider Earth awomb or earth a home.
(14:44):
Um, you know, like is Earthjust a starting point, a
stepping stone, you know, or isEarth a home?
And and these guys were theseguys were more or less saying,
well, it's a starting point, youknow, we're gonna go wherever,
and it's like it kind of blew mymind a bit.
Like, no, it's a home, youknow.
Quantum, this idea of quantumis like things in nature occur
(15:05):
in discrete sized packages, andwe've got a discreetly sized
biosphere that kind of supportslife, and you know, and I think
some of our challenges are moremental and social rather than
technological.
It's about the mindset and theworld view, I think.
AJ (15:19):
Thank you.
Thank you for those starters.
So much to go on with there.
Matthew, I sort of feel likebeaming straight back to you on
that note.
Matthew (15:26):
Oh, yeah, I love that.
Like Mars.
Okay, so I just want to talkabout Mars.
I right.
I went to this place calledPlants for Space in South
Australia, right?
It's a it's a like amulti-million dollar federal
government funded researchfacility to look at how we can
help NASA send plants to Marsand feed humans.
Mars, right?
(15:47):
Mars, if you took every atomicweapon, every weapon on Earth,
every chemical that humanity hasmade currently and unleashed
them all on planet Earth today,you could not create an as an in
hosp as much as an inhospitableplace as Mars.
It looks that way.
I'm not surprised.
(16:08):
We could never, using all ofhuman technology we have today,
we could never make Earth asinhospitable as Mars is.
There is no chance that plants,which essentially feed humanity
through what through you know,photosynthesis and the miracle
of photosynthesis and puttingthem through animals, whatever,
that that soil and plants, whichhave co-evolved for 420 million
(16:31):
years, or whatever we heardearlier today, there is no
chance that we can recreate thatsystem somewhere else.
We are not that fucking clever.
But if we're not careful, we'returning Earth to Mars.
Well, exactly.
Yeah.
I play a game called Menindi orMars when I do slideshows
because I found all thesefarmers were showing pictures of
(16:53):
um around Menindi in thedrought a few years ago and
saying, hey, look, the Marsrover, you know, is it at my
place?
And um and I do this game, andpeople always usually get one or
two of the pictures wrong andthey think it's Mars when it's
Earth.
You have to point out the grassas it is a patch of, yeah.
AJ (17:08):
You don't have to go far out of here to see that, be
confronted by that.
In fact, we've had a fewconversations on that level
already, Stuart.
Or to flip that, I'm wonderingin the you know, you sort of
nodded your head when um itmight have been Stuart that made
reference to the fact we're inthis new context, same land, new
context, different state of theland, you're on your land,
(17:30):
bringing your lens and yourpeople's and your ancestors'
lens to how that regenerates, tohow you're going about that.
So, in a sense, it isrestoring, perhaps more than
many others in this room, somekind of vision of, I guess, what
was before, but how are youfinding it being different now?
Oral (17:49):
So, first of all, we're only in Beverley, we're not in
Meriden or, you know, as the uhHaggertys are in Molleran or
Wildcatch.
And so therefore the work thatthey're doing is fantastic.
You know, I mean I absolutelysupport regenerative um ag as a
practice of agricultural, youknow, farming.
I'm not a farmer, and and Ihave no intentions or
(18:10):
aspirations to be a farmer.
Uh so I'm a regenerative landmanager, is my preferred title.
Um, and I do that as a younger.
So I think that um the systemof agriculture, right, and if
you like, just life, needsNungar indigenous people and
conservationists,environmentalists, and and
(18:32):
anybody else that's a green orwhatever who loves nature to
help restore the nature of theland and the natural systems in
partnership with farmers and andI think we need to remove
agriculture, uh industrial andand and this broadacre mindset
that you've got to have a youknow a 50 million acre bloody
property to to make some money.
(18:53):
Uh I think also that the thewrong drivers uh in terms of the
economics, and I know this thisis absolutely in conflict with
probably all of you, um, but theeconomics of of the land is a
serious problem.
The other massive problem,because of this, you know, this
sense of markets and economicdriven you know drivers that
(19:15):
that uh you know around profitand feasibility and viability is
the issue of land tenure.
So my statement about you knowNyungar people, indigenous
peoples being the originalaffluent society was because
they no one owned the land.
Everybody had a right andaccess to food, water, and space
(19:40):
for their model.
And that was consideredinferior and less than and even
uncivilised.
We were described as brutes bythose fools, and our lands was
lands were described as youknow, wastelands.
So, you know, if Australia isgoing to reconcile itself around
(20:03):
who we all consider ourselvesas being Australian, then
someone's got to care for theland.
And someone's got to putboodyar, and just on the concept
of you know being born of theland.
I mean, look at the wisdom andthe and the and the logic in our
language, for example.
And you heard Wall speakbeautifully, fluently, our
language.
(20:23):
It's a dying language, it's notdead.
It's not dead.
So scientists and linguistshave got to stop telling us that
your culture and your languageand your spirit is dead.
I'll get on to spirit maybe inanother question.
But the the so for me it'sabout the spirit of the land.
And I've I've alwaysconsistently said that.
Because that's what I'velearned in my life, that we've
(20:45):
got to we we can't nurture ourown spirit without healthy
places to nurture our ownspirit.
Where are young people here inBoral Perth or any other city in
the world, where are theynurturing their spirit?
Why is mental health and mentalillness and depression in a
(21:08):
place like this, when we lookout that window?
It's massive and it's growing,it's not getting better.
And at the same time, thedisconnection from every human,
from nature itself, is at ahighest, at its highest, as a as
the longest and worst situationas far as connection to nature
(21:30):
itself.
So absolutely, we're we're asum I think Dan or someone said
you know a lot about his kids,you know, they're animals.
So they know.
We are animals, right?
We're animals, and we need thesame thing that the kangaroo and
the lizard and the bird and thefish need.
We we need fresh air and cleanwater and good food and all that
sort of stuff.
So we are the the system is afractal system, right?
(21:52):
It's a fractal system.
And so if we think that we areseparate from nature, we're
kidding ourselves.
So someone's got to care fornature, someone's got to give
100% of their energy.
And this is what I do, right?
I don't I don't participate inany markets.
We've achieved planting twomillion um, you know,
effectively, a million trees,but you know, we I think we've
regenerated another million ontop of it, and we're only
(22:12):
halfway through.
AJ (22:13):
Just because they're germinating naturally.
That's right.
Oral (22:14):
So country's looking after itself, right?
Um but we've done that on$40,000.
I know that farmers who leaseour property for cropping, which
is now gone, they one year theypulled $800,000 for a ship crop
like like canola.
And I say that respectfully.
So, so you know, and they payus $40,000.
Man, because that's our onlyrevenue stream.
(22:36):
So, you know, we we have thissituation as Aboriginal people
on country loving the land, andI I I alluded, but I didn't say
it.
But in our language, right,bujah, everyone's heard bujar is
country.
When our women are pregnant,they are bujari.
The river is known as bilia.
Bilia is also the word for theumbilical court, and women,
(22:59):
therefore, are the authoritiesof rivers and waterways.
So all of this logic andknowledge is held.
You know, I I don't I have nointerest in growing crops and
competing and participating inthe markets and the economy of
what you mob are doing.
No interest.
But I am about growing healthyfood, and we are doing that, and
(23:19):
we're doing it with ourtraditional and sacred foods in
a way that is not driven by thesame markets that drive greed
and corruption.
AJ (23:31):
It's so profound, Oral, to hear you talk like that.
And I think as much for all ofus, to countenance that that's
an option, and for you it's agiven.
It's like this is the who weare.
It's an obligation in response.
Yeah, well, there you go.
It's law.
Okay.
It's law.
Yeah.
So I actually can we justextend a little bit on this to
round out.
(23:51):
I feel like rounding out whereyou ended up with the umbilical
chord reference.
Because you told me the storythe other day, and I say this
with reference to how much itmeans to the health that's going
backwards for people.
You told me the story the otherday of where the placenta was
buried in the old sacred spot.
Do you want to round that outwith that story?
Oral (24:12):
So, my my grandson, um, my first, I mean, I've got lots of
grandsons, but my my my oldestdaughter had um her first babe.
So I've got my own little mannow.
When Bridget was born, theywere actually living with me
because um on the farm becausethey were building, so I said,
don't pay rent, come and live.
So Lennox is Lennox Oral.
The only other Oral, mate.
(24:33):
There's only three of us on theplanet now.
Oral Roberts, me, and LennoxOral.
Um but he was born, and andbecause we've got I mean, so the
spirit of what we've done, thespirit of the land is the most
powerful.
Crops and you know, maninterventions and science and
all things that we think we'recreating as, you know, gods is
(24:54):
nothing to what nature does.
So the spirit of the land whenyou connect to it is is
wonderful and powerful.
So we've got um, you know,we've manifested, they've always
been there, but we wereconnected and manifested six
sacred sites on our propertythrough the work that we do.
Uh we've got immense ceremony,and it's marked in the rocks,
it's not just me making it up,right?
It's marked in the boulders, inthe rocks.
(25:15):
And they those rocks drew us toyou.
There was me, Barry Maguire,uh, Richard Wally, and Gold
Manor.
And because I took those otherthree men, as Sing and Young
Amen, to read the country, tofeel it when we first got there.
So we found a ceremonialground, dance ground, right?
Which we have been, RichardWally and myself and Barry and
Wall have been re-energizingover the last 15 years.
(25:38):
Getting it ready.
Because it's too powerful tojust turn up and and ochre up
and dance, right?
It'd kill us.
And I know people, men, youngermen, that have died accessing
sacred places again.
So there's a serious law.
My point is uh when uh whenLennox was born, I said to,
because we've got a women's sitedown on the river, because our
(25:58):
property goes to the bulletyard, there's the Avon River.
So I said to Bridget and and afew of um my older sister
cousins who were womentradition, you know, knowledge
holder, I think uh Heidi, youwere you were there as well.
And so these women went downand opened up women's business.
So they took my daughtersthere, open up this uh this
sacred women's site down on theriver.
(26:19):
Bridget then felt so connectedthat when Lennox was born, uh,
and this is a cultural practiceand a and a cultural law to
maintain the health of thatsacred site, she took the
placenta after Lennox was bornand buried it under a tree that
she planted on the riverfront.
So that cultural practice andthat spiritual and powerful
(26:40):
practice of connecting not onlyour new our women back to places
that haven't been danced on,sung to, or sung for, um, to
embedding, you know, in ourlanguage we say, mortal mortya
budya burrow.
Right?
This land holds the blood ofour people.
So that place holds the lat theblood of Lennox as a
(27:03):
three-year-old.
Ten K's away at a place calledBally Belly, the other side of
Beverly, is where my dad wasborn, in the bush.
So I know that his placenta ison that same song line.
So these are connections tohealing country and healing
people.
I I can tell you, and Andreawith it with my partner would
(27:25):
attest to this, uh, 15 years ofpretty hard work.
I can tell you at 62 nearly,uh, I am as healthy and fit and
knowledgeable as I've ever beenin my whole life.
So my sense of spirit and selfcomes from you know these things
that I've been doing inregenerating the land in order
(27:45):
to complement food because thefarmers next door have
absolutely benefited from thework that we've done in the
planting of our trees.
So the land needs us, you mightneed the land and you might own
it.
But but the land belongs to allof us, and your spirit can only
get connected to it through ourlaw.
Because first law is the law ofnature, the second law on this
(28:10):
land is new our law.
AJ (28:12):
Thanks for sharing that, Oral.
Thanks, Aja.
We have questions, yes.
Questioner (28:16):
Hi, team.
Um my my question seems kind ofirrelevant after after that,
Oral.
Oral (28:22):
Sorry.
Questioner (28:22):
Thank you, that's really great insight.
So I think my question would bebest directed to either Stuart
or Craig, and um it's about soilorganic matter and soil organic
carbon, and how we've gotglobal requirements around
sequestering carbon and howmicrobial activity actually
(28:45):
feeds off soil organic matterand lives in those environments,
and the cycling is really hardto manage and measure and
actually build soil organiccarbon over time, which is uh
it's still pending whether wecan actually do that in the
wheat belt.
Craig, do you think this isjust a distraction from healthy
(29:10):
soils or do you think it'sactually doable?
Craig (29:13):
Yeah, there's definitely a need to boost soil carbon um
in our soils, and I think Idon't know, I sort of catched a
bit of a um a note there thatmaybe to have active soils
you're gonna have turnover, andyou know, you're not gonna have
dead soil organic matter thatjust is building up a thing so
we can tick off that we're doingthe right thing.
(29:35):
Um, yes, so we want to buildsoil organic matter, soil
carbon, and um, you know, thecommunity here is is aware of
how to do those things.
And I think you know, there's adifference between um the
opportunistic, fast growing sortof microbes that'll just
they're active, um, that'll justchew through that stuff and not
not leave it hanging in thesystem versus maybe longer lived
(29:56):
microbes, your fungi, etc., inthe more um Um less less
disturbed scenarios.
So there's probably differenttypes of microbes.
There's probably, you know, thethe longer-lived soil growing
fungi are better suited tokeeping soil organic matter,
soil organic carbon in thesystem.
So yeah, different types of micmicrobes based on the different
types of management.
(30:17):
Stuart's probably got a bitmore to add.
Stuart (30:19):
Yeah, carbon's probably another reductionist term which
we just put everything in, butcarbon, you know, is itself is
very diverse, and our our foodsystems aren't really utilizing
what our diversity in plants cando in feeding the soil with the
carbon compounds, the basiccarbon compounds that are then
(30:40):
mediated through the soilmicrobiome to produce these
complex carbon chains, Isuppose, and all these things
that we've seen, you know, todaywith fancy names.
But at the end of the day, youknow, by actually overthinking
we know what the plant needs andgiving it stuff that they just
(31:01):
take up in a water solution,doesn't encourage what plants
inherently do, which is pumpcarbon into the soil.
And the more diverse thoseplants are, then the more
diverse that carbon is.
But I bet you know hardlyanyone in the crowd would know
the potential of a three-tonwheat crop, how much carbon that
that could actually sequesterinto the soil if it was being
utilized in a way to feed thesoil rather than just expect a
(31:24):
lazy feed from how we feed itthese days.
You know, it's it's four tofive tonnes to the hectare of
organic substrates or carbonthat are a wheat crop, just a
wheat crop, never land the restof the diversity that we would
like to encourage.
Just think about that when youcompare it to some of the other
things that we use as soilamendments or nutrition to our
soil.
(31:44):
That is an amazing capacity tocapture the sun's energy and put
it in to the soil to provideenergy for the life of the soil
and the diversity of the soil tore-energize that and reconvert
it and put it into moremeaningful things.
So there's just so much we'rejust not even just considering
(32:04):
in the way we do things.
So when I I I get a bit bemusedabout, I can show you, and I
was going to show you somepictures of some carbon in some
really poor sandy soils beingsequestered by just getting that
interphase going of the soilmicrobiome and the plants and
how much can be sequestered.
So a lot of the carbon, wethink we've got to come and put
(32:27):
all the nutrients and all thecarbon in externally to build
new soil.
We don't.
We need to find out what weshould have in our soil and
utilize our plants to feed thesoil.
That's the first thing, andthen we just maybe help a little
bit.
So, you know, we're just notyou there.
We go.
Look, see, look at that.
That little shot in the handthere.
That plant, that little wheatplant hasn't started
photosynthesizing yet.
(32:49):
And and if you look at thebiology that's already there
that's come on with the seed andis interacting with the unit,
that's where the carbon startsgetting pumped in the soil to
build those relationships andall the complexity that is
required to grow that plant andnourish the soil in us.
And if you go to the nextpicture, this is stimulating
(33:09):
biology with the long roots andknot, so you know, both pretty
healthy.
But if you look at the pictureto the right, you can see the
carbon that's been sequestered,you know, where the soil biology
is active compared to the oneon the left, you know.
At the same time I was doingthis and looking at this, there
was a CSRO program on the farmlooking at um different wheat
(33:31):
cultivators to grow deeperroots.
It's double the amount of rootsthere just by working with the
indigenous native microbiomes inthe soil by just using some
biostimulants.
AJ (33:41):
Thanks, Stuart.
We've got another question?
Questioner (33:43):
This one came through on the Facebook.
I might challenge our paneliststo a one or two-word answer on
this one.
Um they just wanted to knowwhat our panelists have observed
as the most common obstacles toadopting regen ag from farmers.
The name.
Matthew (33:59):
Two words, you did it, dude.
You said two words.
Okay, do you want to say haveyou ever done that before?
No.
But you asked for two words.
You did.
Okay.
So just a frame now, AlanaMcKinnon was here before.
She was telling me when youknow she when she was minister,
and and anytime you mentioned,and I did this when I did talks
and you mentioned regen ag andthere you'll see the farm farmer
lean back, arms crossed, andthe simple term has lost them.
(34:22):
It's very hard to get themback.
AJ (34:24):
It's interesting hearing already this morning.
I mean, Stuart, you did it too.
Um, Hannah Beth did it, talkingabout how there's so much other
language you can use.
And Joel, you were talkingabout it too, I think, last
night in our conversation.
So much other language we canuse that doesn't necessarily
alienate, but you just talkabout what it actually is.
And and do it.
Was it you, Stuart?
It's in actions, not so much.
Well, Hannah Beth it was,wasn't it?
(34:45):
Yeah.
Anyway, on we go.
Two words.
Who can match that?
Joel (34:49):
I don't know if I can do it in two words, but I think I
would just point out that Ithink it's both of these things.
It is both a decisive word thathas um created division.
I think that is a fair commentto make.
Um, but it's definitely alsomaybe not in the word itself,
but in terms of the practicechange.
(35:10):
It regenerative is definitelysomething that is emerged in the
middle of maybe the previousbattles that was organic versus
conventional.
Um, so rewind 20 plus years,and it was all about though us
and them and those two sides.
And we have this, I would say,then in a very positive way that
has emerged in the middle andhas very much bridged those two
(35:31):
divides.
Um, so I see it in a verypositive light, also, even
though I also agree that manyfarmers don't like the term, and
it if you're if you're sayingyou're regenerative, then by
default does that mean I'mdegenerative, is that whole
argument?
So I think it's actually both.
I think there is a positive wayto look at this, and I think
that moving forward then intoyour earlier question, another
(35:51):
six years or or maybe a bitbeyond that, there'll be another
middle ground that's going toemerge between regenerative and
conventional again.
There's going to be all sortsof cross-pollination and and
practice um merging uh wherewe'll have a new term in another
few decades, and that'llprobably be a controversial term
at the time as well.
But it will also be uh thisbridging term and and hopefully
(36:15):
scope of practice that is allpart of that transition.
Yeah, I like that, John.
Thank you.
Oral?
Oral (36:20):
Uh nature.
Nature will prevail, no matterwhat science we want to bring
along.
Nature will decide.
AJ (36:28):
You want to go attempt two words, Stuart?
Stuart (36:30):
Not not really.
I think it's been covered.
Um it is about nature.
We'll, you know, we'll we'llprovide it is a good term
because I think the descriptionis quite what we're trying to do
is wind back some of the damagethat we've done for 10,000
years or more, really, if we'rehonest about it.
Um and you know, re-engagingwith nature again, that's what
(36:50):
it is.
Craig (36:51):
Greg, got anything, Dad?
Something to do with umconnection across the whole of
society, because I guess if it'sgoing to be truly regenerative,
it needs to sit in nature, butalso connect up food production
with consumers and you know havea circular economy.
So I guess connection.
Yeah.
Did we have another one?
AJ (37:08):
Yeah, so complication when you've got an all-star
five-person panel in 40 minutesis it goes like that.
This will be the last one, butlet's get it in.
Duane, thanks.
Questioner (Dwayne Mall (37:18):
Thanks.
Um I'm glad the words that havebeen used around community,
nature, um, responsibility andobligation.
Um it's not passion, it'spurpose.
Um, and you know, our role andresponsibility is to learn and
understand it and fulfill it andact it out.
So there's no separation.
(37:40):
Um, when you talk about nature,culture, uh, human occupation,
bush foods, bush medicines,river systems, this land's
already got an identity.
This land's already got astory.
And there's custodians uh fortime memorium that have been uh
stewards of that.
(38:00):
And the responsibility andobligation for everyone else in
the room that's not nyungar andnot Yamaju or not First Nations
from anywhere else is tounderstand what your
responsibility and obligation isaround preserving, protecting,
maintaining, and restoring thedignity of the lands, waters and
skies and people and culture.
(38:22):
And all I would like for you toshare with the Room Brother um
uh an example of reciprocity onNyungar land, on what that looks
like, that interconnectednessand oneness.
When I spent time up uh in farnortheast Arnaman with um old
man Gummach Elder, the Yolnupeople, uh, we're walking
(38:44):
through, we're about five, sixkilometers from the ocean, and
he said, see that tree there.
When that tree flowers, we knowto go get stingray.
There's plenty of them, they'refat, and they're not pregnant.
It's just it's an element ofsystems being and
interconnectedness and oneness.
There's no separation becausethe tree through the flowers
(39:08):
given a message to us thatthere's sustenance in abundance
in the ocean, and all we'vegiven is love and respect, and
honor through reciprocity topreserve and protect the story
and the knowledge and ensurethat it's handed down to the
next generation.
And for the stingray, onceagain, love and respect, and in
(39:32):
return, sustenance in abundance,and through song and ceremony,
law of the land, spirit ofplace, there is a celebration,
there's a song for that, there'sa dance for that, there's a
story for that.
But if the tree's cut down andthe child's removed from the
land, and then generations latersomeone's coming back and they
(40:00):
don't know the story.
Then the old people have passedon.
And they need sustenance.
And unknowingly andunwittingly, they're actually
breaking the law of the land.
What's the story ofinterconnectedness and oneness
through reciprocity for Yungarpeople, where the land gives you
(40:23):
message oral to know thatthere's abundance through love
and respect and reciprocity?
Oral (40:31):
Yeah, thanks, Ma.
Um so the problem and the issuewe we have, and unlike uh you
know the Gumach people in Yungcountry, Gujarat, our place has
been changed.
Where I live in Beverly in thewheat belt, it's not what it
was.
So the the the reciprocity is acontemporary um almost hybrid
(40:53):
version, because we've got torestore it.
So my reciprocity is about notbeing extractive at all, right,
on mass, particularly or onscale, but being more than just
generous.
So giving back, right?
Having a principle of bujafirst, right?
Country first.
If it's good for country, weknow it's going to be good for
(41:16):
us.
And I've already alluded to youknow the sites and places.
So country has has has givenback in reciprocity the the
planting of the trees and thenthe ecological magic that
happens.
You know, we've got a you know,Keith was you know, when we
were doing this filming for SBS,you know, I was about to I I
(41:36):
sang a song because I was aboutto light up and they wanted to
get some footage of Bernie.
So I sang a song, and thislittle echidna just cruised
across you know the pack.
Nyingarin.
Nyingarin is uh a powerfulspirit in our culture.
So country is always giving.
We miss signs is the problem.
And as Nyungar people whenwe're connected, and and Nyamiji
(41:59):
and all of us as First Nationsindigenous peoples, we know
those signs because those signslive in us and our spirit.
So the reciprocity that Ipractice is having principles
and leading groups and leadingmy own thinking and my own
behaviour to give back, right?
(42:19):
To put bujo first and to doeverything that I possibly can
to make sure that we are uh arecommitting to the process of
healing country and the practiceof healing country because
country will heal us.
It's already started theprocess of healing me.
We're now getting to a scalewhere we will bring people, you
know, big groups.
(42:40):
You know, I've got a vision tonot just have one house,
homestead, on 2100 acreproperty, on a 2100 acre land,
but to have potentially ahundred homes.
And it doesn't matter what thebylaws and the shire say.
It's not a fan, it's bujah,it's not a farm.
It's bujah.
And so the village concept ofbringing people back onto
(43:03):
country is what was.
And it's it's part of thereason why country was healthy
pre-colonisation.
Because people were everywhere.
They didn't live in one place,they moved across it.
So land tenure is anothermassive issue.
The minute that people couldsay that this is my land, I can
do what I want with it, and thegovernment was complicit and
(43:24):
gave it to people and took itaway from us, essentially, the
problems began.
And we're still dealing withthose problems today because
private land is open slather forwhatever you want to do with
it.
And that's not culture, that'snot law, and that's not nature.
AJ (43:41):
Yeah.
Thank you.
We're going to have to havethat longer conversation about
that, hey.
That's all we've got time foron this panel.
Thank you very much.
Would you please give a warmhand to all our panellists?
Matthew, Joel, Oral, Stuart,and Craig.
Thanks, guys.
That was the first panelconversation at the Regenerating
Food Systems Conference stagedby RegenWA at Perth Stadium
(44:05):
last month.
Gives a hint of how special itwas.
And that was just thebeginning.
With thanks again to the teamat Regen WA for generously
providing the recording.
And to you subscribinglisteners for making the episode
possible.
This week, special thanks tothe wonderful Sharon Clifford,
Todd Delfs, Dominique Hes, BenSymons, Caitlin Tacey, Grace
(44:28):
Rose Miller, and Caz.
Friends old and new, thanks somuch for notching up your fourth
anniversary of support.
If you'd like to join us, bepart of this great community,
get some exclusive stuff andhelp keep the show going, please
do by heading to the website orthe show notes and following
the prompts.
If you'd like to hear more fromthe conference, stay tuned for
(44:50):
some bonus extras on thispodcast over the next days.
You can also read Regen WA'swritten debrief and stand by for
the team's release of otherrecordings.
And you can also watch Oralout at his place on that SBS
News report.
All those links are in the shownotes.
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia Barden.
G'day, Anthony James here for The RegenNarration, your
ad-free, freely availablelistener-supported podcast,
exploring how people areregenerating the systems and
stories we live by.
Ever since the extraordinaryweek of events here in Western
Australia last month, from areception at Government House
for my friends, former podcastguests, and West Australians of
(00:30):
the Year, Di and Haggerty,through to the two-day
regenerating food systemsconference at Perth Stadium, and
onto the two-day GroundedFestival down south near
Bridgetown, and plenty morebesides, I've been wondering
what might hold up to share withyou here on the podcast.
In short, I've got a few thingsyou might enjoy hearing.
(00:50):
Starting today, with the veryfirst panel of the Regenerating
Food Systems Conference, withthanks to the team at Regen WA.
This was the one panel I hostedalongside MC duties at the
conference.
It features five special guestswho I introduce off the top,
except for Dr.
Craig Liddicoat, as he justdelivered his keynote.
(01:12):
Craig's a soil and gutmicrobiome researcher at
Flinders University in SouthAustralia.
Our session was titled HealthySoil, Healthy Food, Healthy
People.
I start by asking for firestarters in the form of what's
front of mind for everyone rightnow.
I'm going to invite four otherspecial guests to the stage to
(01:34):
join Craig.
It's a stellar cast.
Firstly, would you pleasewelcome back to the stage Regen
WA Chair Stuart McAlpine.
Thanks, Stuart.
And joining Stuart and Craig,Oral McGuire is a Noongar leader
and landholder.
The regeneration of that landis something to behold.
In fact, Chris Tan's filming upthe back, and he was out at the
(01:57):
property the other day, sostand by on SBS and NITV for
that later this week, I believe.
Oral's vision is for thepromotion of an entrepreneurial
culture within and among theNoongar people of Western
Australia and other Aboriginalcultural groups.
Fitting, Oral should be takingthe stage here at a footy
stadium, too.
As I'm reliably informed, hewas named part of the Aboriginal
(02:19):
Team of the Century for thePerth Demons Footy Club.
And not only that, he wascalled the strongest man at the
club, as a rookie, no less.
He was also aptly named after apreacher and dubbed the
Reverend here six years ago inthis very room.
Please welcome Oral McGuire.
(02:40):
Joel Williams is an independentplant and soil health educator
and consultant who has workedextensively in Australia, Europe
and Canada where he iscurrently based.
I probably don't even need tointroduce Joel to many of you.
He was, however, originallyfrom Brizzy and true to my heart
was an avid live music fan.
(03:02):
And wasn't there plenty of itin that city back then?
Joel got his Bachelor ofAgricultural Science in
Australia, and fascinatingly,his master's in food policy
explored the motivations andbarriers to the enormous
leverage point of moving frommonocrop to intercrop
operations.
And we were talking about theongoing rapid progress in all
(03:22):
that just last night, all theway from North America.
Please welcome Joel Williams.
Matthew Evans is a sh probablydoesn't need an intro either,
does he?
Is a chef turned farmer, writerof 12 books, broadcaster and
founder of Grounded Festival,which will be after this
conference down south.
He co-owns Fat Pig Farm, amixed enterprise on 70 acres
(03:45):
south of Hobart, and for overseven years he ran the on-farm
dining room at Fat Pig with hispartner Sadie, having grown just
about everything served onsite, summing to about 10,000
meals a year.
He's also been the host of sixseasons of Gourmet Farmer on
SBS, fronted two documentaries,and is the author, as I said, of
(04:06):
over a dozen books.
Please give a warm hand toMatthew Evans.
I'd like to come to the newbieson stage, and Craig, we'll come
back to you.
But for you guys, and perhapswe'll just run it like this,
huh?
Having heard what we've heardtoday, and perhaps particularly
with regards to this session onthe link between healthy soil,
(04:28):
plants, people, planet, what'shottest of mind?
I just wonder what's comingfront of mind for you in this
moment to get us started.
Matthew (04:36):
I think for me, the hottest thing is just listening
to Craig, and one of the thingsthat I was thinking about was
the fact that we, you know, whenmy son was born, we were like,
oh, do we need to sterilise thebottles?
And I learned that Royal NorthShore Hospital had said, no,
we're not sterilising bottlesanymore for and dummies for you
know and teats for babies.
(04:57):
And and that now, when I thinkof the microbiome, I think of
the spinach leaf that can have600 different species of
bacteria on it, organicallygrown, of course.
Um and and we know that prettymuch like all of them are either
doing us no good, you know, noharm, and some of them are doing
us uh real good.
And they are, as Craig wastalking about, inoculating,
(05:18):
re-inoculating our gut.
Um but every time if you go andbuy a bag of spinach today,
it'll be bleached.
Um, because the idea is notjust that a hospital has no
bacteria, it's that the ideathat that we're all supposed to
have no bacteria.
Um and I and I was thinkingabout in terms of hospitals when
my mum was in hospital and andthey had uh processed ham and
processed cheese, and I wasreally surprised because you
(05:40):
know I don't think of them asfood, and they I said, Why are
you serving them?
And they said, Well, becausenothing can live on them.
Um, you know.
That's that's in my mind, thatkind of stuff.
Wow.
Joel (05:53):
So I think um, you know, Craig used that word there, uh,
communities a few times, talkingabout microbial community, and
I think that's uh uh maybe avery important link to our wider
communities as we also open theconference here today about us
all coming together, um the therole of these events, um the
(06:14):
role of the community, and usall um doing that interaction
and that the microbes do down inour guts and down in our soils,
and what are the outcomes andfunctions that come from that.
And I think that in that kindof trying to draw a little bit
of another parallel here, it isvery exciting to see the role of
(06:35):
farmer-led events and communityevents coming together
together, and I'll talk a littlebit about this in my
presentation tomorrow.
Um, that really this wholeregenerative movement is clearly
this farmer-led movement, and Ithink that's for me one of the
very exciting things about itthat there is so much learning
(06:55):
happening from the field, fromthe ground up, and it's farmers
really leading the way.
And yes, some of the scienceand research and things are
catching up to that, and alsonow beginning to jump a little
bit ahead of that too.
Yeah, I think there's a bit ofboth of that happening.
But I think for me that's kindof really one of the things that
that does excite me the most.
It's the fact that farmers arecoming together, a community, uh
(07:18):
connecting through socialmedia, through conferences,
through field days, all of thosetypes of things.
And I think that um thefunctions that we provide, um,
that look what are the actionsand the outcomes of this event
and other events is a reallyimportant parallel to also
understanding some of thosefunctions and outcomes of the
gut bioteur and soil bioter aswell.
(07:40):
So I think for me it's thecommunity and the coming
together that's particularly uhexciting.
AJ (07:45):
Yeah, I'm conscious that you have a front row seat to that
in a way, as you get asked byfarmers in groups, in
communities, to come and workwith them on both those levels,
joining the two together.
I do want to, for those who'venoticed, this is a mighty big
group of men on stage.
I want to acknowledge that.
Uh we will end the day with amighty big group of women.
(08:07):
So just so you know, we'rebalancing up.
And of course, Felice Shaka wasintended to be part of this
too, so and then the group justgot big on us at the end.
But who's complaining given whowe've got?
Oral (08:18):
Oral, over to you.
Well, I suppose because Ireplaced Heidi, I'm the token
woman.
I'm the token black.
Um, yeah, I look, it's it'salways interesting.
I find um interactions with um,you know, these types of
communities at these sort offorums um uh challenging a lot
of the time.
(08:38):
So I I expand my thinking umimmeasurably when I attend these
sort of forums and and get toknow individuals.
Uh but what I what is justreaffirmed and reinforced and
and I was at a different forumuh yesterday is the fact that
um, you know, and it's a littlebit of what wall, you know, we
(08:59):
sort of we're the same breed, sowe uh you know we we are a bit
of a neural thinker, uh neuraldisruptor in our thinking.
Um and uh the the truth is thatwhen the these people sailed up
the the river here, and thefirst contact was around the
corner on the river at a placecalled Gumap, better known as
(09:22):
Elizabeth Keek, or Ing Facts andGeorge's Terrace, you know, the
the archaeologists historianssaid that there were two worlds
meeting and colliding.
The Aboriginal people, theNyongara people, the
Weijopnyonga, the MoralWaijokanyonga, were possibly the
healthiest people on the planetat that moment in time.
(09:43):
And the people who were on theboat, because of their just
travel journey, were possiblythe most unhealthy people on the
planet at that moment in time.
So my sense is with all thescience that Craig and Dan and
other wonderful speakers andknowledge holders speak about, I
(10:03):
think the Blackfellas and theIndigenous peoples globally had
something.
And I see and hear so muchscience, so much uh technical
knowledge and technology beingchannelled towards trying to
create something because it'sbeen replaced.
In the wheat belt, right, we'vehad 98% replacement of the
(10:24):
ecology and the systems.
So everything's been changed toa European mindset, but the
land's still the same.
You can't change the land.
So what I'm hearing is thatscience is actually trying to
now create nature through theknowledge of all this stuff
about the health of the soil,the health of plants and food
(10:48):
and in general.
Yet Nyungar people lived in acompletely different landscape.
The previous landscape providedabsolutely for not just 200
years, for the the 20, 30, 40,50, 60, whatever the number that
science is telling us, but formillennia, you know, uh
indigenous peoples maintain ahealth, maintained a level of
(11:11):
health that was not mediocre,like has been described today.
So we're chasing, we're tryingto improve mediocrity with
science, and yet nature is theperfect science.
AJ (11:24):
Thanks, Oral.
It strikes me that the researchis turning up those patterns
all around the world withIndigenous folks.
Yeah.
Stuart.
Stuart (11:39):
Yeah, thanks.
And I think following ontomorrow, I think the watershed
moment for me, after beingexposed to soil biology and
seeing what it could achievewith that immense diversity that
it has in numbers, um, tryingto get my head around that as a
as a white, you know,conventional reductionist
farmer.
And you know, I ran out of bitof time earlier to put up the
(12:00):
three concentric circles of soilhealth, but like it's
embarrassing to think what we'refocused on in food production.
You know, we haven't focused onthe whole, and it's the whole
that's important.
I think one of the watershedmoments for me was actually a
lecture at UWA from a professorJohn Crawford, who who I think
the topic from memory was theself-organizing systems of the
(12:21):
microbiome.
So the the community that wetalk about is self-organizing.
You know, if we let it be.
So it's about actually creatingthe right uh environment for
diversity and all the energythat is captured from natural
processes from the sun andstored in the soil with the
interface with the microbiomeand then the diversity that
(12:43):
grows for a bomb that is justcompletely missing.
It's gone.
Like the energy has been suckedfrom the 98% of the wheat belt.
Unfortunately, you know, we'reprobably never going to get back
to where it was, and we willhave to create something
different.
But just imagine if we startrestoring the living, you know,
(13:07):
the land is a living organismwith all that community that's
going on together.
So just imagine if we can startgetting that living soil
starting, and then the livingbiodiversity below and above
ground, and restoring all thoseenergy cycles, you know, and
rebuilding them and capturingthe bit of energy that is left
in the landscape with with youknow First Nations you know
(13:31):
knowledge and stuff like that aswell.
You know, how much can weachieve, you know?
Um so the so the potential isexponential.
It is only exponential if weall move together as one, like a
community of one.
AJ (13:49):
The One Health, that term you came to us with, Craig.
I wonder for you in thismoment, having heard all that,
and certainly the morning beforeus, what's front of mind for
you?
Craig (13:58):
Yes, I obviously presented a lot of science and
backed by technology, and Iprobably look at too much
science and technology on socialmedia and this sort of thing,
but probably the top of my mindthat is kind of related to all
this is some of the questionsthat we face kind of need to be
asked to society as a whole, andI think the some of the key
challenges are are mental andsocial.
They're not sort of liketechnological so much, and I've
(14:21):
sort of, you know, on the socialmedia you see some pretty big
names that are trying to, youknow, go to Mars and they're
trying to secure mineralresources on the moon and Mars
and this and that, and and umsome of these people uh they're
saying um you know there's twooptions here.
We can we can consider Earth awomb or earth a home.
(14:44):
Um, you know, like is Earthjust a starting point, a
stepping stone, you know, or isEarth a home?
And and these guys were theseguys were more or less saying,
well, it's a starting point, youknow, we're gonna go wherever,
and it's like it kind of blew mymind a bit.
Like, no, it's a home, youknow.
Quantum, this idea of quantumis like things in nature occur
(15:05):
in discrete sized packages, andwe've got a discreetly sized
biosphere that kind of supportslife, and you know, and I think
some of our challenges are moremental and social rather than
technological.
It's about the mindset and theworld view, I think.
AJ (15:19):
Thank you.
Thank you for those starters.
So much to go on with there.
Matthew, I sort of feel likebeaming straight back to you on
that note.
Matthew (15:26):
Oh, yeah, I love that.
Like Mars.
Okay, so I just want to talkabout Mars.
I right.
I went to this place calledPlants for Space in South
Australia, right?
It's a it's a like amulti-million dollar federal
government funded researchfacility to look at how we can
help NASA send plants to Marsand feed humans.
Mars, right?
(15:47):
Mars, if you took every atomicweapon, every weapon on Earth,
every chemical that humanity hasmade currently and unleashed
them all on planet Earth today,you could not create an as an in
hosp as much as an inhospitableplace as Mars.
It looks that way.
I'm not surprised.
(16:08):
We could never, using all ofhuman technology we have today,
we could never make Earth asinhospitable as Mars is.
There is no chance that plants,which essentially feed humanity
through what through you know,photosynthesis and the miracle
of photosynthesis and puttingthem through animals, whatever,
that that soil and plants, whichhave co-evolved for 420 million
(16:31):
years, or whatever we heardearlier today, there is no
chance that we can recreate thatsystem somewhere else.
We are not that fucking clever.
But if we're not careful, we'returning Earth to Mars.
Well, exactly.
Yeah.
I play a game called Menindi orMars when I do slideshows
because I found all thesefarmers were showing pictures of
(16:53):
um around Menindi in thedrought a few years ago and
saying, hey, look, the Marsrover, you know, is it at my
place?
And um and I do this game, andpeople always usually get one or
two of the pictures wrong andthey think it's Mars when it's
Earth.
You have to point out the grassas it is a patch of, yeah.
AJ (17:08):
You don't have to go far out of here to see that, be
confronted by that.
In fact, we've had a fewconversations on that level
already, Stuart.
Or to flip that, I'm wonderingin the you know, you sort of
nodded your head when um itmight have been Stuart that made
reference to the fact we're inthis new context, same land, new
context, different state of theland, you're on your land,
(17:30):
bringing your lens and yourpeople's and your ancestors'
lens to how that regenerates, tohow you're going about that.
So, in a sense, it isrestoring, perhaps more than
many others in this room, somekind of vision of, I guess, what
was before, but how are youfinding it being different now?
Oral (17:49):
So, first of all, we're only in Beverley, we're not in
Meriden or, you know, as the uhHaggertys are in Molleran or
Wildcatch.
And so therefore the work thatthey're doing is fantastic.
You know, I mean I absolutelysupport regenerative um ag as a
practice of agricultural, youknow, farming.
I'm not a farmer, and and Ihave no intentions or
(18:10):
aspirations to be a farmer.
Uh so I'm a regenerative landmanager, is my preferred title.
Um, and I do that as a younger.
So I think that um the systemof agriculture, right, and if
you like, just life, needsNungar indigenous people and
conservationists,environmentalists, and and
(18:32):
anybody else that's a green orwhatever who loves nature to
help restore the nature of theland and the natural systems in
partnership with farmers and andI think we need to remove
agriculture, uh industrial andand and this broadacre mindset
that you've got to have a youknow a 50 million acre bloody
property to to make some money.
(18:53):
Uh I think also that the thewrong drivers uh in terms of the
economics, and I know this thisis absolutely in conflict with
probably all of you, um, but theeconomics of of the land is a
serious problem.
The other massive problem,because of this, you know, this
sense of markets and economicdriven you know drivers that
(19:15):
that uh you know around profitand feasibility and viability is
the issue of land tenure.
So my statement about you knowNyungar people, indigenous
peoples being the originalaffluent society was because
they no one owned the land.
Everybody had a right andaccess to food, water, and space
(19:40):
for their model.
And that was consideredinferior and less than and even
uncivilised.
We were described as brutes bythose fools, and our lands was
lands were described as youknow, wastelands.
So, you know, if Australia isgoing to reconcile itself around
(20:03):
who we all consider ourselvesas being Australian, then
someone's got to care for theland.
And someone's got to putboodyar, and just on the concept
of you know being born of theland.
I mean, look at the wisdom andthe and the and the logic in our
language, for example.
And you heard Wall speakbeautifully, fluently, our
language.
(20:23):
It's a dying language, it's notdead.
It's not dead.
So scientists and linguistshave got to stop telling us that
your culture and your languageand your spirit is dead.
I'll get on to spirit maybe inanother question.
But the the so for me it'sabout the spirit of the land.
And I've I've alwaysconsistently said that.
Because that's what I'velearned in my life, that we've
(20:45):
got to we we can't nurture ourown spirit without healthy
places to nurture our ownspirit.
Where are young people here inBoral Perth or any other city in
the world, where are theynurturing their spirit?
Why is mental health and mentalillness and depression in a
(21:08):
place like this, when we lookout that window?
It's massive and it's growing,it's not getting better.
And at the same time, thedisconnection from every human,
from nature itself, is at ahighest, at its highest, as a as
the longest and worst situationas far as connection to nature
(21:30):
itself.
So absolutely, we're we're asum I think Dan or someone said
you know a lot about his kids,you know, they're animals.
So they know.
We are animals, right?
We're animals, and we need thesame thing that the kangaroo and
the lizard and the bird and thefish need.
We we need fresh air and cleanwater and good food and all that
sort of stuff.
So we are the the system is afractal system, right?
(21:52):
It's a fractal system.
And so if we think that we areseparate from nature, we're
kidding ourselves.
So someone's got to care fornature, someone's got to give
100% of their energy.
And this is what I do, right?
I don't I don't participate inany markets.
We've achieved planting twomillion um, you know,
effectively, a million trees,but you know, we I think we've
regenerated another million ontop of it, and we're only
(22:12):
halfway through.
AJ (22:13):
Just because they're germinating naturally.
That's right.
Oral (22:14):
So country's looking after itself, right?
Um but we've done that on$40,000.
I know that farmers who leaseour property for cropping, which
is now gone, they one year theypulled $800,000 for a ship crop
like like canola.
And I say that respectfully.
So, so you know, and they payus $40,000.
Man, because that's our onlyrevenue stream.
(22:36):
So, you know, we we have thissituation as Aboriginal people
on country loving the land, andI I I alluded, but I didn't say
it.
But in our language, right,bujah, everyone's heard bujar is
country.
When our women are pregnant,they are bujari.
The river is known as bilia.
Bilia is also the word for theumbilical court, and women,
(22:59):
therefore, are the authoritiesof rivers and waterways.
So all of this logic andknowledge is held.
You know, I I don't I have nointerest in growing crops and
competing and participating inthe markets and the economy of
what you mob are doing.
No interest.
But I am about growing healthyfood, and we are doing that, and
(23:19):
we're doing it with ourtraditional and sacred foods in
a way that is not driven by thesame markets that drive greed
and corruption.
AJ (23:31):
It's so profound, Oral, to hear you talk like that.
And I think as much for all ofus, to countenance that that's
an option, and for you it's agiven.
It's like this is the who weare.
It's an obligation in response.
Yeah, well, there you go.
It's law.
Okay.
It's law.
Yeah.
So I actually can we justextend a little bit on this to
round out.
(23:51):
I feel like rounding out whereyou ended up with the umbilical
chord reference.
Because you told me the storythe other day, and I say this
with reference to how much itmeans to the health that's going
backwards for people.
You told me the story the otherday of where the placenta was
buried in the old sacred spot.
Do you want to round that outwith that story?
Oral (24:12):
So, my my grandson, um, my first, I mean, I've got lots of
grandsons, but my my my oldestdaughter had um her first babe.
So I've got my own little mannow.
When Bridget was born, theywere actually living with me
because um on the farm becausethey were building, so I said,
don't pay rent, come and live.
So Lennox is Lennox Oral.
The only other Oral, mate.
(24:33):
There's only three of us on theplanet now.
Oral Roberts, me, and LennoxOral.
Um but he was born, and andbecause we've got I mean, so the
spirit of what we've done, thespirit of the land is the most
powerful.
Crops and you know, maninterventions and science and
all things that we think we'recreating as, you know, gods is
(24:54):
nothing to what nature does.
So the spirit of the land whenyou connect to it is is
wonderful and powerful.
So we've got um, you know,we've manifested, they've always
been there, but we wereconnected and manifested six
sacred sites on our propertythrough the work that we do.
Uh we've got immense ceremony,and it's marked in the rocks,
it's not just me making it up,right?
It's marked in the boulders, inthe rocks.
(25:15):
And they those rocks drew us toyou.
There was me, Barry Maguire,uh, Richard Wally, and Gold
Manor.
And because I took those otherthree men, as Sing and Young
Amen, to read the country, tofeel it when we first got there.
So we found a ceremonialground, dance ground, right?
Which we have been, RichardWally and myself and Barry and
Wall have been re-energizingover the last 15 years.
(25:38):
Getting it ready.
Because it's too powerful tojust turn up and and ochre up
and dance, right?
It'd kill us.
And I know people, men, youngermen, that have died accessing
sacred places again.
So there's a serious law.
My point is uh when uh whenLennox was born, I said to,
because we've got a women's sitedown on the river, because our
(25:58):
property goes to the bulletyard, there's the Avon River.
So I said to Bridget and and afew of um my older sister
cousins who were womentradition, you know, knowledge
holder, I think uh Heidi, youwere you were there as well.
And so these women went downand opened up women's business.
So they took my daughtersthere, open up this uh this
sacred women's site down on theriver.
(26:19):
Bridget then felt so connectedthat when Lennox was born, uh,
and this is a cultural practiceand a and a cultural law to
maintain the health of thatsacred site, she took the
placenta after Lennox was bornand buried it under a tree that
she planted on the riverfront.
So that cultural practice andthat spiritual and powerful
(26:40):
practice of connecting not onlyour new our women back to places
that haven't been danced on,sung to, or sung for, um, to
embedding, you know, in ourlanguage we say, mortal mortya
budya burrow.
Right?
This land holds the blood ofour people.
So that place holds the lat theblood of Lennox as a
(27:03):
three-year-old.
Ten K's away at a place calledBally Belly, the other side of
Beverly, is where my dad wasborn, in the bush.
So I know that his placenta ison that same song line.
So these are connections tohealing country and healing
people.
I I can tell you, and Andreawith it with my partner would
(27:25):
attest to this, uh, 15 years ofpretty hard work.
I can tell you at 62 nearly,uh, I am as healthy and fit and
knowledgeable as I've ever beenin my whole life.
So my sense of spirit and selfcomes from you know these things
that I've been doing inregenerating the land in order
(27:45):
to complement food because thefarmers next door have
absolutely benefited from thework that we've done in the
planting of our trees.
So the land needs us, you mightneed the land and you might own
it.
But but the land belongs to allof us, and your spirit can only
get connected to it through ourlaw.
Because first law is the law ofnature, the second law on this
(28:10):
land is new our law.
AJ (28:12):
Thanks for sharing that, Oral.
Thanks, Aja.
We have questions, yes.
Questioner (28:16):
Hi, team.
Um my my question seems kind ofirrelevant after after that,
Oral.
Oral (28:22):
Sorry.
Questioner (28:22):
Thank you, that's really great insight.
So I think my question would bebest directed to either Stuart
or Craig, and um it's about soilorganic matter and soil organic
carbon, and how we've gotglobal requirements around
sequestering carbon and howmicrobial activity actually
(28:45):
feeds off soil organic matterand lives in those environments,
and the cycling is really hardto manage and measure and
actually build soil organiccarbon over time, which is uh
it's still pending whether wecan actually do that in the
wheat belt.
Craig, do you think this isjust a distraction from healthy
(29:10):
soils or do you think it'sactually doable?
Craig (29:13):
Yeah, there's definitely a need to boost soil carbon um
in our soils, and I think Idon't know, I sort of catched a
bit of a um a note there thatmaybe to have active soils
you're gonna have turnover, andyou know, you're not gonna have
dead soil organic matter thatjust is building up a thing so
we can tick off that we're doingthe right thing.
(29:35):
Um, yes, so we want to buildsoil organic matter, soil
carbon, and um, you know, thecommunity here is is aware of
how to do those things.
And I think you know, there's adifference between um the
opportunistic, fast growing sortof microbes that'll just
they're active, um, that'll justchew through that stuff and not
not leave it hanging in thesystem versus maybe longer lived
(29:56):
microbes, your fungi, etc., inthe more um Um less less
disturbed scenarios.
So there's probably differenttypes of microbes.
There's probably, you know, thethe longer-lived soil growing
fungi are better suited tokeeping soil organic matter,
soil organic carbon in thesystem.
So yeah, different types of micmicrobes based on the different
types of management.
(30:17):
Stuart's probably got a bitmore to add.
Stuart (30:19):
Yeah, carbon's probably another reductionist term which
we just put everything in, butcarbon, you know, is itself is
very diverse, and our our foodsystems aren't really utilizing
what our diversity in plants cando in feeding the soil with the
carbon compounds, the basiccarbon compounds that are then
(30:40):
mediated through the soilmicrobiome to produce these
complex carbon chains, Isuppose, and all these things
that we've seen, you know, todaywith fancy names.
But at the end of the day, youknow, by actually overthinking
we know what the plant needs andgiving it stuff that they just
(31:01):
take up in a water solution,doesn't encourage what plants
inherently do, which is pumpcarbon into the soil.
And the more diverse thoseplants are, then the more
diverse that carbon is.
But I bet you know hardlyanyone in the crowd would know
the potential of a three-tonwheat crop, how much carbon that
that could actually sequesterinto the soil if it was being
utilized in a way to feed thesoil rather than just expect a
(31:24):
lazy feed from how we feed itthese days.
You know, it's it's four tofive tonnes to the hectare of
organic substrates or carbonthat are a wheat crop, just a
wheat crop, never land the restof the diversity that we would
like to encourage.
Just think about that when youcompare it to some of the other
things that we use as soilamendments or nutrition to our
soil.
(31:44):
That is an amazing capacity tocapture the sun's energy and put
it in to the soil to provideenergy for the life of the soil
and the diversity of the soil tore-energize that and reconvert
it and put it into moremeaningful things.
So there's just so much we'rejust not even just considering
(32:04):
in the way we do things.
So when I I I get a bit bemusedabout, I can show you, and I
was going to show you somepictures of some carbon in some
really poor sandy soils beingsequestered by just getting that
interphase going of the soilmicrobiome and the plants and
how much can be sequestered.
So a lot of the carbon, wethink we've got to come and put
(32:27):
all the nutrients and all thecarbon in externally to build
new soil.
We don't.
We need to find out what weshould have in our soil and
utilize our plants to feed thesoil.
That's the first thing, andthen we just maybe help a little
bit.
So, you know, we're just notyou there.
We go.
Look, see, look at that.
That little shot in the handthere.
That plant, that little wheatplant hasn't started
photosynthesizing yet.
(32:49):
And and if you look at thebiology that's already there
that's come on with the seed andis interacting with the unit,
that's where the carbon startsgetting pumped in the soil to
build those relationships andall the complexity that is
required to grow that plant andnourish the soil in us.
And if you go to the nextpicture, this is stimulating
(33:09):
biology with the long roots andknot, so you know, both pretty
healthy.
But if you look at the pictureto the right, you can see the
carbon that's been sequestered,you know, where the soil biology
is active compared to the oneon the left, you know.
At the same time I was doingthis and looking at this, there
was a CSRO program on the farmlooking at um different wheat
(33:31):
cultivators to grow deeperroots.
It's double the amount of rootsthere just by working with the
indigenous native microbiomes inthe soil by just using some
biostimulants.
AJ (33:41):
Thanks, Stuart.
We've got another question?
Questioner (33:43):
This one came through on the Facebook.
I might challenge our paneliststo a one or two-word answer on
this one.
Um they just wanted to knowwhat our panelists have observed
as the most common obstacles toadopting regen ag from farmers.
The name.
Matthew (33:59):
Two words, you did it, dude.
You said two words.
Okay, do you want to say haveyou ever done that before?
No.
But you asked for two words.
You did.
Okay.
So just a frame now, AlanaMcKinnon was here before.
She was telling me when youknow she when she was minister,
and and anytime you mentioned,and I did this when I did talks
and you mentioned regen ag andthere you'll see the farm farmer
lean back, arms crossed, andthe simple term has lost them.
(34:22):
It's very hard to get themback.
AJ (34:24):
It's interesting hearing already this morning.
I mean, Stuart, you did it too.
Um, Hannah Beth did it, talkingabout how there's so much other
language you can use.
And Joel, you were talkingabout it too, I think, last
night in our conversation.
So much other language we canuse that doesn't necessarily
alienate, but you just talkabout what it actually is.
And and do it.
Was it you, Stuart?
It's in actions, not so much.
Well, Hannah Beth it was,wasn't it?
(34:45):
Yeah.
Anyway, on we go.
Two words.
Who can match that?
Joel (34:49):
I don't know if I can do it in two words, but I think I
would just point out that Ithink it's both of these things.
It is both a decisive word thathas um created division.
I think that is a fair commentto make.
Um, but it's definitely alsomaybe not in the word itself,
but in terms of the practicechange.
(35:10):
It regenerative is definitelysomething that is emerged in the
middle of maybe the previousbattles that was organic versus
conventional.
Um, so rewind 20 plus years,and it was all about though us
and them and those two sides.
And we have this, I would say,then in a very positive way that
has emerged in the middle andhas very much bridged those two
(35:31):
divides.
Um, so I see it in a verypositive light, also, even
though I also agree that manyfarmers don't like the term, and
it if you're if you're sayingyou're regenerative, then by
default does that mean I'mdegenerative, is that whole
argument?
So I think it's actually both.
I think there is a positive wayto look at this, and I think
that moving forward then intoyour earlier question, another
(35:51):
six years or or maybe a bitbeyond that, there'll be another
middle ground that's going toemerge between regenerative and
conventional again.
There's going to be all sortsof cross-pollination and and
practice um merging uh wherewe'll have a new term in another
few decades, and that'llprobably be a controversial term
at the time as well.
But it will also be uh thisbridging term and and hopefully
(36:15):
scope of practice that is allpart of that transition.
Yeah, I like that, John.
Thank you.
Oral?
Oral (36:20):
Uh nature.
Nature will prevail, no matterwhat science we want to bring
along.
Nature will decide.
AJ (36:28):
You want to go attempt two words, Stuart?
Stuart (36:30):
Not not really.
I think it's been covered.
Um it is about nature.
We'll, you know, we'll we'llprovide it is a good term
because I think the descriptionis quite what we're trying to do
is wind back some of the damagethat we've done for 10,000
years or more, really, if we'rehonest about it.
Um and you know, re-engagingwith nature again, that's what
(36:50):
it is.
Craig (36:51):
Greg, got anything, Dad?
Something to do with umconnection across the whole of
society, because I guess if it'sgoing to be truly regenerative,
it needs to sit in nature, butalso connect up food production
with consumers and you know havea circular economy.
So I guess connection.
Yeah.
Did we have another one?
AJ (37:08):
Yeah, so complication when you've got an all-star
five-person panel in 40 minutesis it goes like that.
This will be the last one, butlet's get it in.
Duane, thanks.
Questioner (Dwayne Mall (37:18):
Thanks.
Um I'm glad the words that havebeen used around community,
nature, um, responsibility andobligation.
Um it's not passion, it'spurpose.
Um, and you know, our role andresponsibility is to learn and
understand it and fulfill it andact it out.
So there's no separation.
(37:40):
Um, when you talk about nature,culture, uh, human occupation,
bush foods, bush medicines,river systems, this land's
already got an identity.
This land's already got astory.
And there's custodians uh fortime memorium that have been uh
stewards of that.
(38:00):
And the responsibility andobligation for everyone else in
the room that's not nyungar andnot Yamaju or not First Nations
from anywhere else is tounderstand what your
responsibility and obligation isaround preserving, protecting,
maintaining, and restoring thedignity of the lands, waters and
skies and people and culture.
(38:22):
And all I would like for you toshare with the Room Brother um
uh an example of reciprocity onNyungar land, on what that looks
like, that interconnectednessand oneness.
When I spent time up uh in farnortheast Arnaman with um old
man Gummach Elder, the Yolnupeople, uh, we're walking
(38:44):
through, we're about five, sixkilometers from the ocean, and
he said, see that tree there.
When that tree flowers, we knowto go get stingray.
There's plenty of them, they'refat, and they're not pregnant.
It's just it's an element ofsystems being and
interconnectedness and oneness.
There's no separation becausethe tree through the flowers
(39:08):
given a message to us thatthere's sustenance in abundance
in the ocean, and all we'vegiven is love and respect, and
honor through reciprocity topreserve and protect the story
and the knowledge and ensurethat it's handed down to the
next generation.
And for the stingray, onceagain, love and respect, and in
(39:32):
return, sustenance in abundance,and through song and ceremony,
law of the land, spirit ofplace, there is a celebration,
there's a song for that, there'sa dance for that, there's a
story for that.
But if the tree's cut down andthe child's removed from the
land, and then generations latersomeone's coming back and they
(40:00):
don't know the story.
Then the old people have passedon.
And they need sustenance.
And unknowingly andunwittingly, they're actually
breaking the law of the land.
What's the story ofinterconnectedness and oneness
through reciprocity for Yungarpeople, where the land gives you
(40:23):
message oral to know thatthere's abundance through love
and respect and reciprocity?
Oral (40:31):
Yeah, thanks, Ma.
Um so the problem and the issuewe we have, and unlike uh you
know the Gumach people in Yungcountry, Gujarat, our place has
been changed.
Where I live in Beverly in thewheat belt, it's not what it
was.
So the the the reciprocity is acontemporary um almost hybrid
(40:53):
version, because we've got torestore it.
So my reciprocity is about notbeing extractive at all, right,
on mass, particularly or onscale, but being more than just
generous.
So giving back, right?
Having a principle of bujafirst, right?
Country first.
If it's good for country, weknow it's going to be good for
(41:16):
us.
And I've already alluded to youknow the sites and places.
So country has has has givenback in reciprocity the the
planting of the trees and thenthe ecological magic that
happens.
You know, we've got a you know,Keith was you know, when we
were doing this filming for SBS,you know, I was about to I I
(41:36):
sang a song because I was aboutto light up and they wanted to
get some footage of Bernie.
So I sang a song, and thislittle echidna just cruised
across you know the pack.
Nyingarin.
Nyingarin is uh a powerfulspirit in our culture.
So country is always giving.
We miss signs is the problem.
And as Nyungar people whenwe're connected, and and Nyamiji
(41:59):
and all of us as First Nationsindigenous peoples, we know
those signs because those signslive in us and our spirit.
So the reciprocity that Ipractice is having principles
and leading groups and leadingmy own thinking and my own
behaviour to give back, right?
(42:19):
To put bujo first and to doeverything that I possibly can
to make sure that we are uh arecommitting to the process of
healing country and the practiceof healing country because
country will heal us.
It's already started theprocess of healing me.
We're now getting to a scalewhere we will bring people, you
know, big groups.
(42:40):
You know, I've got a vision tonot just have one house,
homestead, on 2100 acreproperty, on a 2100 acre land,
but to have potentially ahundred homes.
And it doesn't matter what thebylaws and the shire say.
It's not a fan, it's bujah,it's not a farm.
It's bujah.
And so the village concept ofbringing people back onto
(43:03):
country is what was.
And it's it's part of thereason why country was healthy
pre-colonisation.
Because people were everywhere.
They didn't live in one place,they moved across it.
So land tenure is anothermassive issue.
The minute that people couldsay that this is my land, I can
do what I want with it, and thegovernment was complicit and
(43:24):
gave it to people and took itaway from us, essentially, the
problems began.
And we're still dealing withthose problems today because
private land is open slather forwhatever you want to do with
it.
And that's not culture, that'snot law, and that's not nature.
AJ (43:41):
Yeah.
Thank you.
We're going to have to havethat longer conversation about
that, hey.
That's all we've got time foron this panel.
Thank you very much.
Would you please give a warmhand to all our panellists?
Matthew, Joel, Oral, Stuart,and Craig.
Thanks, guys.
That was the first panelconversation at the Regenerating
Food Systems Conference stagedby RegenWA at Perth Stadium
(44:05):
last month.
Gives a hint of how special itwas.
And that was just thebeginning.
With thanks again to the teamat Regen WA for generously
providing the recording.
And to you subscribinglisteners for making the episode
possible.
This week, special thanks tothe wonderful Sharon Clifford,
Todd Delfs, Dominique Hes, BenSymons, Caitlin Tacey, Grace
(44:28):
Rose Miller, and Caz.
Friends old and new, thanks somuch for notching up your fourth
anniversary of support.
If you'd like to join us, bepart of this great community,
get some exclusive stuff andhelp keep the show going, please
do by heading to the website orthe show notes and following
the prompts.
If you'd like to hear more fromthe conference, stay tuned for
(44:50):
some bonus extras on thispodcast over the next days.
You can also read Regen WA'swritten debrief and stand by for
the team's release of otherrecordings.
And you can also watch Oralout at his place on that SBS
News report.
All those links are in the shownotes.
The music you're hearing isRegeneration by Amelia Barden.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!