Episode 218- Idaho Murders | Bryan Kohberger Pleads Guilty - The Sit Down: A Crime History Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to The sit Down, a mafia history podcast. Here's
your host, Jeff Nado. What's up everybody, and welcome in
to another edition of The sit Down. This is episode
two hundred and nineteen. I am your host, Jeff nay Do.

(00:31):
As always, if you're enjoying the show, you're on iTunes, Spotify,
wherever you're listening, makes you subscribe, leave us a rating
five star review.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
We have ever I think almost.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Five thousand ratings on this show, so I appreciate all
of you for that. We're back better than never. Hope
everybody had a great July fourth. And if you're a
true crime person, which again we talk a lot about
organized crime, we took about all sorts of things here,
but this week true crime really been on the forefront.
If you're a fan of true crime, whether it's the

(01:00):
Didty case or the Idaho murder case, there was news
galore in this and with these two cases. Did He
obviously was found not guilty on three to five charges,
which maybe we'll do an episode on in the future.
I want to probably bring on one of our favorite
attorneys at some point to talk about that. But today
I wanted to kind of backtrack We've done some episodes

(01:21):
in the past on the Idaho murders, which I think
a lot of people kind of forgot about. I mean,
at least I think you're in true crime, you haven't
forgotten about it. But if you're just like a regular
person who maybe glances or checks out true crime.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
This case happened, you know, going on three years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
But sounds like we have a very sad I think ending,
at least for the families in this case. As Brian
Coberger has decided to plead guilty, we're gonna delve into why.
We're gonna dove in why the prosecution offered a plea
in this case. I want to get into some of
the leaking that went on with this gag order, just
all the stuff that went on. I want to talk

(02:00):
about why I think Coburger did this.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
And in the end, I was wrong on this case.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
I for a long period of time, did not think
that the evidence presented, at least for the first couple
of months, meant that there was going to be a
guilty verdict here. I thought it would be hard to
prove this. But as the case went on, and I
know our guests will agree, we started hearing more and
more leaking, the case became more and more I.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Think hard to win.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
I think I will say this, when I really started
to have doubt on maybe, like I thought they were
gong ho the defense. But when they threw out the
alibi or lack thereof of an albi, it almost seemed
like maybe they were beginning to throw on the white towt.
But let's get someone else's opinion here too. Let's bring
her in. She's mostly a sports person like me, but

(02:50):
I think she has an interest in true crime and
crime just like I do.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's Casey Smith, barstool Sports. Casey. You and I have
We've sparred at times on this.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
I know some of your colleagues as well haven't exactly
seen eye to eye with my opinion on this case.
But you and I talked the other day. I thought
you'd be a great person to bring on. Neither of
us are lawyers, we're not cops. We're just people that
have an interest in true crime. Casey, this case is
has a resolution. How you doing and thanks for jumping in.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Yeah, I'm great to do. I was saying this, you know,
before I jumped on your spaces the other day when
we watched the hearing for Brian Koberger, I thought you
and I would go go at it for maybe like
ten minutes, and I looked down and we were on
for an hour and a half talking about this case.
And I was, and I say, a ton of fun. Obviously,
it's a very sad situation and it's real life, but

(03:38):
it also really proves that, like you said, we're both
sports people. We don't have any degrees in criminology or
law or crime or anything like that. But there's something
about this specific case that I think really speaks to
what we were talking about because the whole nation was
captivated by it.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Now it's like all this build up after all these
years and here we are just kind of like with
our hands and they are like what, like how how
is this the ending to this? So I'm excited to
talk to you about it again.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Yeah, we so like on this, Like I've done two
hundred and twenty ish episodes here, and like this was
one of the only true crime cases that I've went
this deep into. I mean, again, I generally am looking
into organized crime and things of that nature, but I
mean this case, we had an FBI agent on about
this case, we've really delved into it, and listen, I

(04:26):
want to say from the beginning, and I've always been steadfast.
I always want justice for the innocent people, the families
of these people, and if someone is guilty of a crime,
they need to pay. I've always been steadfast in that,
and my whole thought always was At least initially, it
seemed that there was not only questionable methods of finding

(04:48):
this individual, but also outside of the knife sheaf, I
thought they could maybe get that thrown out number two.
Outside of that, there was really very little evidence against
Brian Coberger outside of circumstantial stuff. But as the case
went on, let's just kind of go back though. November thirteenth,
twenty twenty two, what exactly happened for University of Idaho

(05:10):
college students were brutally murdered in their off campus house
at eleven twenty two King Road, Moscow, Idaho. Now, like
any college town, a bunch of people around, but this
is more of a remote community. This isn't exactly you know,
more like you know, like a big ten college town
or like some sort of sec college town. It is

(05:32):
a bit more remote. It's in Idaho, if you will,
so these four people are brutally taken out to the
point of your blood was leaking out of the foundation
of the home. That's how much blood there was in
this case. Just a very depraved and gruesome scene. All
sorts of questions, all sorts of rumors arose. They didn't

(05:53):
have a suspect for about a month, and then all
of a sudden, this kid, PhD Brianger, he's trying to
get his PhD in criminology, shows up. All sorts of
things happened, and three years later we're here and trial
was set to begin.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Casey.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
This trial was set to begin in approximately a month
or so, and there had been some continuations.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
They're making sure everybody was prepared. And I want to.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Start with leading up to this, you mentioned to me,
and you made a great point, how many documentaries have
we seen for a case that has a gag order,
which means a gag order essentially means that no one
is to talk about a criminal case. So it's a
court order which restricts parties, lawyers, or even witnesses from

(06:39):
probably discussing specific aspects of the case. And it's aimed
to prevent prejudicial information from influencing jurors and ensuring.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
A fair trial, which we had for a period of time.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
You know, you'd see occasional info that came out, but
then all of a sudden, as you told me, like
dateline comes out, and then we see all this like
stuff being leaked, and it's like, first of all, who's
leaking that? And then we see the house was knocked
down that the murders occurred in. You have to admit
this has been a bizarre investigation and then try lead
up in general.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, it's been crazy, and I mean even just the
fact that it's been almost three years, I mean two
and a half years, I guess because it's still the
summer and it happened, you know, going into the winter break.
But just every delay that happened, it seems like more
information came out from the media or you know, obviously
all these documentaries are being made, and I've just like,
as somebody who from day one has thought that this

(07:36):
man did it, you know, as soon as they arrested
him and information started coming out and all that, and
that's where you and I had, you know, we'd spar
back and forth playfully, like because I maybe I'd be
really bad to be on a jury, especially a jury
like this, because to me, all the circumstantial evidence put
together a puzzle, like each puzzle piece put together a puzzle.
But every documentary that came out to do it was
like no one else thought that there was anybody else involved,

(08:00):
That's what you know, whether it was Dateline, whether like
the was it Peacock that just came out this week,
the sixty Minutes, everything, it was always so focused on him,
which is somebody who thought he was guilty from day
one was like okay, yeah, But there wasn't even a
question in these documentaries. There wasn't even like, well maybe
he didn't do it, maybe there's somebody else out there.
I've just never seen anything like that. And you can't

(08:21):
put a gaggler on social media, right. We know TikTok
was heavily involved in this Instagram salutes YouTube investigators, But
the fact that these mainstream media companies were putting these
things out, to me, it was like, how are in
the world are you ever going to find a jury
that's not heard a word about this?

Speaker 1 (08:38):
That'sy And to me, this is why, and I've said
this before, I think in our lifetime we're going to
see major challenges that come to the legal system because
it's impossible, as you just said, to give someone a
fair trial in this day and age, because the court
of public opinion up until ten to twenty years ago

(08:58):
was there was no it was just what TV showed you.
Right nowadays, as you alluded to, everybody can do this.
Everybody can start a show, everybody can go on Reddit
with a fake account and talk about stuff, and the
court of a public opinion is always going to side
with the families obviously, right. People don't like criminals and
they don't let them in society, especially ones like Brian

(09:21):
Coberger who possibly violently killed people.

Speaker 2 (09:24):
But this is why I've always said.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Like I want a trial, want fair judicial stuff to
come out.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
But I think you're one hundred percent right.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Throw in the fact that businesses like you know, dateline
or whatever, it's about money.

Speaker 2 (09:37):
In the end people will watch.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
I saw, for instance, Casey on the Daily Mail, which
is a publication out of the UK. That site is free,
but I've noticed all information at least this week on
the Idaho murders.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Guess what you have to do to see it?

Speaker 3 (09:52):
To pay? And even like those the websites that are like, well,
technically this isn't a paywall, but if you want to
throw some nations and it's like, we know what you're
doing here, I mean, and not even that even like
old school sit down hardcover books. Yeah that I read
multiple books, like Howard Bloom put one out. There was
another one called like When Idaho Slept, Like all the

(10:13):
different books that came out with all the information over
the last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
And do you know how many people on YouTube have
built their channels off of this case itself.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Oh, I can only imagine. I mean, I you know,
you and I have talked about this, you know, off air,
We've talked about it on you know, spaces and Twitter
and whatever else. Like I I've never been a true
crime person. I've never like I mean, obviously I've paid
attention to different cases like the Casey Anthony case. I
remember when I was young in college watching that. I
was too young to remember OJ but obviously you have
now since paid more attention to it. But this is

(10:46):
this is the first one for me that caught my
attention to the point where I was going to look
at those YouTube videos. I was looking at TikTok and
I'm not even a TikTok person. And because I feel
washed at you know, as in my you know, mid thirties,
and I'm watching every second of this, I'm like, yeah,
if you wanted to become a big time true crime person,
you could build an entire career off of the Idaho cases.

(11:08):
Why's that too much information was out of there?

Speaker 2 (11:10):
Why do you think?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
And I'll tell you that I know the answer, but
I would ask you, like what about this case made
you so enamored with it? Like why do you think
society was so drawn to this?

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Was it? And I'll just be real, is it because
the people look the way they did?

Speaker 1 (11:31):
And it just kind of because again, like I hate
to say this, and I'm just gonna bring it up.
I mean, last night in Philadelphia, I mean, three people
were killed and twelve were injured in one shootout. Nobody
will even know that existed other than if you're looking
out like so, like, I guess that's my like wonder,
like what draws people to this? Do you think it
is really just because of how the people look?

Speaker 3 (11:55):
I think there's an element of that. And I definitely
think that you know, they were all very attractive people.
Two they were young they were in college. And I think,
you know, for me, it was not that it was
easy to put myself in a position where my friends
would have been murdered, because obviously that's not at all
what it felt, But it was very easy to put
myself in. Yeah, like a party house and you're in
your twenties and you know, you're just you're just becoming

(12:18):
an adult, and it's like and all of a sudden,
it's this, And like you mentioned, it's rural Idaho. It's
not a big party school. And even if it was
a big party school, I think it's still be a
big story. But that college kind of American dream of these,
you know, gorgeous for people who not only were brutally murdered,
that there wasn't a suspect, There wasn't somebody right away.
So it was like, Wow, in this tiny, quiet, sleepy,

(12:41):
frozen town, we don't know what's going on. And I
actually didn't really get super on board with what was
Like I knew that it had happened because obviously it
was all over social media and I work at barstools,
so I'm going to see that. Until they arrested Brian Coberger,
I didn't necessarily have as much of an interest in
it until then, and I was obviously like, okay, that's

(13:02):
what you know, what the fuck's going on? But then
once they arrested him and you saw his face and
you saw you know that he was all the way
in Pennsylvania when they caught him and all this, then
it was like why. I think that was like why.
And unfortunately, with so many things that happened in this
like depraved world with shootings and everything, it's like there's
so much information that goes on. This one was very unique,

(13:22):
I think, and I think that's another reason why people
caught onto it. But then now, because it took so
long to and it's not even gonna go to trial now,
it was just like every month that went by and
there was more information that came out, it was like
almost the people forget about it. But if you were
invested in the case, it's almost like building up even more.
But I do think that you're right. I think there's
an element of the age of the students, the way

(13:43):
that they looked where it happened, and that we didn't
know for almost a month who didn't and then it's
a guy that comes out that's a twenty eight, twenty
nine year old white guy that's just in Pennsylvania that
wanted to study criminology. You're like, what, what is this?

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Well, I think we've also it also, and then generally
leads to like the thought of a word that I
hear probably daily at this point, whether it's social media
or whatever, is the term in cell right.

Speaker 2 (14:09):
I mean, that's become a very.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Well known way to describe someone. And I think we
could all be honest right away. This guy had incellish vibes, right,
who had you know, we had found out that, you know,
by talking to people that knew him, and you know
he wasn't exactly you know, popular with women. I guess
you could say, as you alluded to, these were attractive women.

(14:34):
And that's when I want to talk about motive, like
why he did this. I think that could lend a
lot to to why he did this. I also want
to get into the plea and that sort of thing.
But I want to go back to why a lot
of people have come to me and and some people
have said, oh, you're an idiot.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I cannot believe you actually thought he was not guilty.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
And I do want to backtrack a little and just
make it clear this, this case per se, was a
lot different than most. Right, if you look at most cases,
you have various things, whether it be a murder, weapon,
audio or video. Especially nowadays, it's almost impossible to not
be caught on video or audio at the scene of

(15:15):
a crime. Right, there's cameras everywhere. See even in like
a remote place like this, there are door cameras, there
are ring cameras.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Someone had to have seen something.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Throw in the fact there were no witnesses other than
one person who said she saw a person that resembled
Coburger that said, we do know she was probably still
drunk and or high. And this is the same person,
an innocent person who wasn't killed, that did not call

(15:45):
the police ever at any point in this situation and
just went back to sleep. So that's more of my thought.
There's a lot of circumstantial evidence. Now, there is the
fact that we found out in the plea deal that
miss to Coburger had pinged in that vicinity a lot, okay,
which doesn't say that he did this, but it definitely

(16:07):
hurts him. Throwing the fact number two, they were looking
for a Hyundai a Lantra could be his car could
not be his car. But the worst piece of evidence
against mister Coberger, and a question that I'll have for you,
is the knife sheaf. Obviously that was the smoking gun,
if you will. He didn't have the knife, but had
a knife sheath, and from anyone that doesn't know, there

(16:28):
was a small amount of DNA that matched mister Coburger
on the knife sheath. Right, So my question to you, Casey,
Let's say, and we know now after the plea deal,
that Coburger the day after the murder went back to
the scene. Okay, we know that he was likely going
there to retrieve the knife sheaf because a very smart

(16:49):
guy made one very crucial mistake. If the knife sheaf
wasn't dropped, and let's say Coburger left there, you agree
with me that this case would have been nearly impossible
for them to win.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Yeah, I think it would have been incredibly difficult even
with you know, and I know again it's circumstantial and
in any time it gets in front of a jury,
it has to be without a reasonable doubt. You know.
The one thing that especially again these documentaries, the more
that have come out, the more surveillance we've seen, which
again goes back to what gag order are we talking
about this? Clearly somebody's liaking it. But you know, you

(17:23):
see you see his car, which you're right, you never
see him in it, but you see that the same
car he drives without a front license plate, you know,
going back and forth in front of the house around
the same times, and pulling back all of these different
things that led it to find Brian Koberger. But then
without that Sheath, without that touch DNA there, how they

(17:44):
could have really said, hey, we know he did this,
even if you put all of that circumstantial evidence into
one big puzzle, which again I believe even without the knife,
Sheath would have said, hey, this guy is the guy.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
That did it.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
To make that crucial mistake with otherwise what it seemed
like perfect crime, which we know as a studying criminology,
he had been very interested in for a long time
about exactly how to you know, cover up. When I
say cover up, he was posing it as like how
do you investigate criminal you know, criminal scenes and crime
scenes and all that. But losing that Sheath, Jeff says

(18:19):
to me that something went wrong when he went to
go do what he went to do, and I know
you and I have talked about this, and this is
there's a lot of speculation around this and theories around this,
but what was the motive. I truly believe he went
to murder one of those girls on that top floor.
I believe that he was either watching her or following her,
or casing the house to see what her normal routine was.

(18:42):
And to his surprise, there were two girls in that
room and because of that, everything spiraled out of control
for him, and he went to go kill one person,
ended up killing four because they were in his way.
And that's why that knight sheath was left. And that's
where it all went wrong, because everything else was too perfect.
There was too much covered up for him to just
accidentally leave that behind unless something went wrong.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Yeah, I mean, look at the end of the day,
when you kill four people, I mean I also just
looked at like the amount of time that he allegedly
did this in it seemed almost impossible for person who
had never killed someone before as far as we know,
to kill four people that quickly.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
And remember, the one thing that also.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Lend to the fact that maybe he didn't do this
was number one, outside of the knife sheaf, there was
no physical DNA that he was even there.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
There was no blood, there was no hair.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
There was no latence, There was nothing around the house
that warranted that he was there. His car had no
blood or any anything in it. His home it was
no different. The problem that he had again, was a
very smart guy, but this was a very violent murder.
And the truth is things can fall off during the
commission of this.

Speaker 2 (19:55):
He didn't even realize it. He also just happened to.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
Be at least and I don't want to say anything
good about him, but he was a bit unlucky here.
If he'd got there an hour before, he could probably
found a way to get get into that house and
get that chief. I also don't And you mentioned killing
four people. I think most of them were cladal damage.
I think his goal was to go in and kill Gonsalves,
which he did, but he encountered her best friend, who

(20:21):
just happened to be in the same room. He then left,
encountered Kronodo, killed her, and then I think encountered the boyfriend.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
They were collateral damaged. My question though, is also.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
If you were doing it and just had to do
it because they were there and they knew too much
how do you leave Dylan Mortenson alive because he obviously
saw her.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
That's been one of the biggest questions that has frustrated me.
As you know, again, I'm thirty six years old, i
have a two year old son. It's been a long
time since I was in college. But anytime I would
see somebody say well, she's young, she's a kid, she
was in shock. And I'm not taking that away from
She's also a victim in this obviously did not lose
her life, but both of those surviving roommates have been

(21:04):
through an unspeakable tragedy. I've never understood that and why
the police weren't called to the next day, and I
know we can get to that, but the only thing
I could come up with, and I will say that,
you know the dateline episode that came out earlier this summer,
that was such a problem for the defense because that
was I mean, you saw more surveillance tapes than you'd

(21:25):
ever seen of his car. You heard more stories about
you know, his random hinge dates and like his relationships
with women. You know that he was working with at
Washington State and all of those different things. You know,
one of the things that really stood out to me
was that, you know, Xana apparently was not only awake,
she was out of her room and she had potentially

(21:46):
heard what was going on upstairs that he then had
to chase her down the stairs. She tried to wake
Ethan up, he kills her in you know, the doorway
of her room. Ethan apparently, from what it sounds like,
was passed out to a certain degree because again their
college kids, they had been into Sigma Kai party that night.
Whether he woke up or not, he gets killed, and

(22:08):
then Brian Coberger is so exhausted that he takes a
seat in a small chair in Zanna's room for probably
only a few seconds, right, But that was kind of
what the evidence had looked like, was that he was there.
The only thing I can think of, Jeff, is that
maybe when he was on his way out, he was
so fucking exhausted from killing four human beings as fast

(22:30):
as he did, which again I do believe as well
it was collateral damage that somehow he did not see
Dylan in that hallway, because you know, you see a
lot of these three d you know, walkthroughs or even
like they do. Kind of what his point of view
would have been that there is a potential that he
was so one track minded to get out of that
house that she's standing there frozen in shock and he

(22:50):
just doesn't see her, because otherwise I don't understand how
she wasn't murdered as well.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, I think you know, when we go to motive,
i'll talk about this, but I will say I think
there are two pronged one of which was I think
he did think he was smart and could get through
this and get past it and get away with it.
The one mistake a smart kid made was he left
the sheath, he dropped the sheath whatever. But one thing
that I also had a lot of questions on and

(23:15):
Dylan Mortenson throughout this has been very questionable. Her behavior
has been weird straight up, because I can understand being
absolutely scared and you're young and you don't have a
weapon to defend yourself, But then that gets thrown out
of the window when you decide to a just go
to sleep or b as well text the other remaining

(23:39):
roommate about what's going on. You then never call the
cops and throw in. About three months ago, I think
it was around spring early spring. The defense and Taylor
Coberger's lawyer stated that they had again they had said
this multiple times, exculpatory evidence that would not put Coburger
at the scene. And with her behavior, I'd wondered maybe

(24:02):
did she know him, did she lie and say something?
Did like she's her behavior was very questionable and they
would never have put her on the stand because she
was not believable. That's why the only witness you had
was not believable, and she didn't call the police.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Throw in the fact that I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
And look, I've seen far too many videos Casey on
the internet that have scarred me that I've just I
wish I never would have seen. I've seen people be
brutally murdered, you know, cut their head stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
It is very difficult to aid do that.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
And b the amount of blood in that house, you
would smell it. It was so potent, Like to just
go to sleep, to me, is insane. Look, I think
she obviously, I hope she's a very quiet life. It'll
probably be very difficult for her. I also think she
should thank God that she was. She was very lucky.

(25:01):
I mean very lucky. I mean she should she should,
you know, sadly, have probably faced the same faith, because
this guy had no real throw in.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
I think you're right.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
I mean, maybe he just thought she probably didn't see
enough of me. Anyway, It's all good, you know.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
I mean I think, I really think there's a possibility
now that he just he was ready to get the
fuck out of there, right. You know, we've seen that,
we've seen the car speeding away, that maybe there isn't
an element where he didn't see her. But I completely
agree with you, and it was really hard for me.
You know, again, these are you know, nineteen twenty twenty
one year old kids and whatever. But like I, you

(25:38):
and I talked about this on the space we did
the other day. I put myself in this position as
much as I can. And obviously you're never you never
know what you'll do in anything until you're in the position,
So I can't speak with one hundred percent certainty. But
I know that in that situation, even if I was
absolutely shit faced, right like a college, you're black out,
you're drunk, you're partying, you've got nothing to worry about,

(26:00):
that it would be very hard for me. Let's say,
even if somehow she did go back into her room
and pass out, which now we know she didn't do
now we know she ran down to the bottom floor.
But how do you not wake up the next day
and say, hey, I haven't heard from any of the
other roommates in this. I've got to go either check
on them or call somebody if I don't want to
go out. And I also have said that even if

(26:22):
I was absolutely terrified that I didn't want to speak,
just in case someone was still in the house at
that night, go in your room, just dial nine on
one and leave the phone, call or text somebody else
and just say hey, something's going on. And then we
find out. You know, I don't know exactly who reported this,
but again the gag order doesn't exist. That both of
those surviving roommates were on their phones at like eight am,

(26:45):
nine am. And I understand you rotten bed when you're hungover.
I understand when you're in college and it's a Sunday
you don't have anything to do, but you're calling your
dad and my dad would be like, uh, hello, I'm
going to call the police then you.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
So, if I'm a defense attorney, I would ask missus
Mortenson in one question, if you were so scared, like
there's two options in her case, she didn't have a
weapon to defend herself, so that's out. The only other
option is to call the police. Like it's that would

(27:18):
be the only question I asked her honestly that there's
nothing more. We don't need to hear anything you say,
because as you just said, she was able to call
other people but not the police.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
It's just it was very odd and and.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
You know, there's also the you know, the two sided
prong of like, Okay, if a lot of people said, well,
she was shit faced, she didn't really know, okay, that
might be true. And there have been plenty of times
again unfortunately where you know, especially in college, like you
do have people that pass out. They wake up the
next day and they say, well, what happened last night?
What did I do? I mean, I've been there, not
proud of it, but I've been there. But then how
if that's the case, then how do you have the

(27:54):
memory of saying, Okay, I see this athletically built, bushy
all black, like it's one or the other. And I
hate even you know, putting it in a position where
I'm like harsh on her or another college kid. But
those are fair questions that the defense could have used
And I mean, I know we're going to talk about
the plea deal, but my question is, and when I

(28:14):
watched the plea deal hearing and you know, infuriated for
especially the Gonzalvez family and how they're feeling, it's like
this might have been the best case scenario because I'm
not sure that prosecution would have been able to seal
up all of these questions in a trial, because there
are so many questions that we have as the public,
even as somebody who one thousand percent thought he did

(28:35):
it before he said the words himself, Brian Coberger committed
these crimes, And could they have proven to twelve people
without a reasonable doubt when the only witness her story
kept changing, And why were the cops not called until
noon the next day? It makes no sense.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
One hundred percent agree, let's talk about the plea deal. Obviously,
I mean, I've heard shocked. Why make a deal with
the devil? Families aren't happy? Obviously they shouldn't be. This
is anything but justice, that's one of the families stated.
And I think you're right in terms of from the beginning,

(29:13):
whoever handled this case seemed look, they don't handle a
lot of cases like this in that area. They don't
have many murders, especially very complex murders like this.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
This was moved, change a venue.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
It didn't seem like anyone had interest in even taking
it to trial. They knocked the house down, I mean,
judges were changed, judges were tired. Now in the end,
they offer a plea and basically say, okay, we won't
pursue the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
You plead guilty, admit to this.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
You know you're gonna get life, but you know, no, no,
no death penalty. Now, I've always said I've never understood
pleading to life in prison without parole. I don't get
the point in that, especially when you know most states
don't execute people for decades, throwing the appeals process. It
could be thirty years until mister Coburger is executed. I

(30:04):
think there's more though to this, and we're starting to
hear that a plea was offered. I think they believed
that this was the best outcome because I think they
knew you're right, like, it would have been hard, certain
things would have come up. But I think Brian Coberger's family,
I'm beginning to think that maybe they would have been
affected by if he was defiant and remain defiant and

(30:26):
said I'm taking this to trial.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
You know, see what happens.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
We were starting to hear that two hours after the murder,
so approximately six am the next day, Coburger called his
mother and she would have had to get on the
stand and discuss that phone call.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Throw in.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
I mean, the father I think maybe was under a
little scrutiny, you know where they involved, not obviously in
the murder, but you know, covering up things. I think
he probably knew that it wasn't really going to be
good for his parents. And if he was gonna save anybody,
you know, your parents should be the ones you save.
I think on both ends this particular for the prosecution,

(31:11):
it works out. He's going to do life. And I
will tell you, Casey, and I told you this the
other day. I think he's perfectly fine with this. There
were two options he had. Was to either beat the
case and be defiant and he won and he would
look like the smartest guy in the room. Or number two,
this was a consolation prize if anything. Yeah, I'm gonna
go to jail for life. But number one, I'm infamous.

(31:34):
I'll be the guy everybody always you know, everybody knows,
and I've told you this is what killers look at. Okay,
you even see it in the mob. You see it
ain't street gangs. People want to be known as fucking
tough guys, and in this case, he wanted to be
known as I'll live forever in doing this, I'll finally

(31:54):
get noticed, a guy who had never been noticed, a
guy who had had trouble with women, kind of a
normal ordinary person. Fame, infamy, it's a very strong thing,
and we've seen this in other cases.

Speaker 2 (32:09):
I mentioned to you the.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
Don't Fuck with Cats Luca Magnata documentary. That was Luca
Magnata's sheer obsession with being famous, and he would do
it by any means necessary. We know that Coburger had
a fascination with serial killers. A lot of us do,
but there's a difference between having an interest in serial
killers and actually going out and becoming one.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
I think he was similar in a way to Ted Bundy.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I think he tried to think he was the smartest
guy in the room, and now he can be infamous.
He'll get a bunch of letters, He'll, I'm sure, be
offered to do a documentary or some sort of interview someday.
I think for him this is a consolation prize.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Yeah. I mean he you know, we know that he
was super fascinated with Ted Bundy to the point where
after you know, the murders occurred, you know, he's googling
them and he's looking himself up in the same type
of vein. You know, it's like he he very clearly
was not just like, oh, I'm going to go do
this one thing and just you know, casually go back
to being a student and be it, you know, get

(33:09):
my PhD. I think that he you know, when we
started hearing that the state of Idaho was going to
you know, reinstate the firing squad of the death penalty
and not just you the use the lethal injection, and
how he is the type of person that you know,
he really didn't want to face the death penalty. And
I you know, there are two types of criminals, and
I don't know if we'll ever know what makes you

(33:31):
one or the other. But it's like there's the criminals
who create, who do these types of things, and their
worst nightmare is to have to die at the hands
of the state. Right they don't want the death penalty.
They're okay, living the rest of their life behind bars
because they don't have any empathy. They are sociopaths. And
then there's the other side where somebody which you know,

(33:51):
and again, I would never ever be a murderer, but
I know that I would rather just die, Like, don't
send me to life in prison. I don't want to
eat shitty food and be locked up and never see
my family and all this kind of thing. Just kill
me and get it over with. And that's kind of
the easy way out.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
But but casey, casey, hold on a second.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
You have to remember, though you're you're trying to think
like a normal person, and these are not normal people.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
These are people.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Who have major issues that again they don't think like you.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
No, well, and that's where he is. You're absolutely right.
This was a consolation prize for him. And while I
do think that, you know, down the road, I think
that you know, the families will look at this and
be like, at least he said out loud, he was guilty.
He said he did it. It wasn't just like he
maintained his you know, shitty alibi of stargazing and he
was innocent and all that, you know, it wasn't. And

(34:42):
then the jury still found him guilty. He admitted to it,
but now he's going to go because he is so
egotistical and so psychotic and such a sociopath that he
doesn't want somebody else to kill him. He wants the power.
And I said this the other day to you, and
I truly believe it. It was like say to Idaho, you're
not going to kill me. Someone else is not gonna
kill me. I did the killing, and I'm just gonna

(35:03):
go live my life in prison and be fine with it.
Because we've seen these, you know, blog intries and all
these things that he had over the years where he
literally said I can do anything without feeling any type
of consequence. I don't feel bad for anything that I do.
And whether it was because he was dealing with visual
snow or he was addicted to heroin or whatever it
may be, that's who this person is and he just

(35:24):
wanted to maintain power, which is the entire story of
Brian Koeberger. He never had it with women. He was
an in cell. He was somebody who just desperately wanted
this attention. Then he goes and commits these heinous, heinous crimes,
has this power and now it's like, well, I might
have done it, but you can't do shit about it. Fine,
throw me behind bars whatever. I'm gonna live my life

(35:46):
out And that's what he is getting, which is why
these families are pissed, because he can still live his
life out right.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
And again, like when we look at people like this,
this guy, I think, and this will never be used,
but there's a tinge of mental illness with this guy,
Like normal people don't do shit like this, right, I mean,
but I think you make you said the word egotistical.
He's a very egotistical guy, very I think defying.

Speaker 2 (36:17):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
They also said he was angry. He was almost proud
though too, you know, And that leads into like, why
did he do this?

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Right?

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Why does a person say, Okay, I'm gonna go just
kill for the most part, random people.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
I did mention.

Speaker 1 (36:33):
I think a lot of it was he was trying
to do that perfect crime and get away with it,
and he for a second wasn't that far off dead.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
He dropped the knife sheath, and that.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
I wonder how he stayed so defiant for so long
because the sheath was very concerning, if you will. But
I also think it's more to just do with the
fact that he is an I think I think that's
about as easy as it comes. And we've seen this
a lot in criminal cases. I mean, we've seen very

(37:08):
high profile p Elliott Rodgers is a prime example of
people who are so they have so many issues with attractive.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
People who are doing well.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
It almost eats at them, right, And I got to
get back at them, you know, I got to get
back at the girl that won't date me. I got
to get back at the couple who I wish I
could be but I'm not. I got to get back
at the people who are having sex daily and I'm not.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
You know, why not me? Why did they get to
do it and I can't.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
This is it's almost relatable to there's a theory in
hoods everywhere case se It's called the crab in a
barrel theory. It's why can he do this but I can't?
So I'm going to go take care. I'm gonna kill him.
I don't like what he's doing, so if I can't
have it, either can he.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
And it's I think a theory that was just very simple.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
I think he also had that infamous thought and it
kind of related in and we see it a.

Speaker 2 (37:59):
Lot with with like school shooters and stuff.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Most school shooters when when the manifestos come out, it's
not really I did it because I don't like this
person or these kind of people. I wanted to be
well known, right, I wanted to live forever. I wanted
someone to finally take notice of me. And that's why
I've always been so against like when a school shooting happens,
discussing the perpetrator, because that's exactly what they want.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
People want to be known for these sick crimes.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Because as you and I've talked about, there's gonna be
a certain group of social rejects on the internet that
will write these people. I'm sure down the road, Brian
Coberger will get married. Sure. You know we've seen Chris Watts,
the guy who killed his own family and children. He
gets inundated with mail. You know, these people that worship

(38:50):
people like this, you know, are sick. They're sick people,
they're lonely people. There's didn'tine research and like you know,
writing prisons and trying to marry them and stuff like
it's it's bizarre. And I think he got all that
into one and it kind of relates back to the
Consolation prize. I think for him that'll be the next
you know, fifty years of his life or so. Are

(39:14):
are going to be tough, but they're going to be
on his terms. He doesn't get they don't choose when
he does he does, which you know you talked about
him him having that control is what he always wanted.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, that's part of this whole thing, is that in
his mind, you know, he he is getting away with
it to a certain degree because he doesn't feel bad.
It's not like he's going to be living every day
in those that jail, that jail cell, that prison cell,
being like shit, I can't believe I did this to
these families. He doesn't care, which is why he is
so evil and why he is so you know, just

(39:45):
just absolutely broken brain to where people like us can't
wrap our head around it. But like the just I
mean going back to the fact that he was googling
Ted Bundy, who is one of the most infamous serial killers,
who was also known as like, you know, arguably attractive guy,
who was targeting these young women. There is something about
that and we've now learned that, you know, he was
searching porn of women tied up, women, passed out, all

(40:09):
that type of stuff, and it's like that's another thing too,
is you know, we talked about the day that the hearing,
the plea hearing happened. The prosecution fumbled in that as well.
I mean, I understand it's you know, a lot of
emotion going into it. You know, this isn't some high
profile prosecution firm and whatever. But you know, the lead
guy says, well, there wasn't any intent for sexual malice

(40:30):
or whatever the term that he used, and I think
he meant to say there was no physical evidence that
none of the three girls that who were murdered had
any evidence there was any sexual component to it. But
it's very clear what he was doing. He was targeting
these young women for a sexual purpose, and whether he
planned to do something like that or not, that was
part of this because he very clearly was wanting that.

(40:52):
I mean, even like the girl that apparently went on
a hinge date with him and he said, you know,
I had a great time on the date. You have
great birthing hips, and you're like, what the fuck is
this guy talking about? You know, he talks just the
very big time obsession he had with not only women
that he couldn't get that he wanted that another serial

(41:12):
killer who was known for targeting and having sex with
the women that he killed. It's like, this guy is
just one of those people that one letter from a
woman in prison that says, I believe you. You know
you were overlooked your whole life. I'll love you. That
makes his entire life, and that's so fucked up. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know, like I don't always want to always say
the same stuff with all the stuff that I talk about,
but this is all very similar in a way, Like
this is no different from like, there's just certain types
of people, and you and I are regular, and most
of the people listen to this are regular.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
But there's a certain.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Other group of people that they're either doing something for
money or for power, or for respect, or for love
or for admiration or for obsession or for whatever or
and those people do not think the same way we do. So, yeah,
this does sound like a really bad life, right Who
would want to sit in a in a supermax facility
that I'll talk about in a second, you know, for
the next fifty years.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
But again, it's not about.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
That, you know, who would who would willingly stand up
and say, you know, shoot me in the head.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Do what you gotta do.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
You know, I'm not I'm not snitching or I'm not I'm.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Not doing that like most people wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (42:25):
But there's a certain level of whether it's a code
or a way of life that these people live by.
And and he also has you and I have talked
about Brian Koberger does not have empathy. He does not
have you know, it's when he goes on a date,
it's what can you do for me? It's not or
what what will you do for me by any means necessary.

(42:46):
He also doesn't have like, he doesn't have remorse. Do
you think he has remorse? No way, none.

Speaker 3 (42:52):
I think I think that he is so void of
all of those things, which is why it is shocking
to me. I mean, I guess shucking is not the word,
but it is very obvious to me that like this
defense along the way, you know, like you said there
was you know, they tried to say there was. There
could have been another suspect that the you know, the
FBI didn't look at other blood and other DNA found

(43:14):
that he was stargazing that you know, all these different things.
It's like, if he has no remorse, no empathy, then
why did it take so long for him to finally
sit up and say, yeah, I'm guilty. And that's why
I understand where the frustration from the families come in,
because it's like, at least if there was a trial,
even though he would never say he's sorry, because he's
not sorry, even though he would ever say, like, you know,

(43:35):
I wish I wouldn't have done this, because he's glad
he did it, But why we're not going to get
those answers, where is the knife, where's the murder weapon?
Who were you targeting? All those different questions that could
have potentially come out in a trial, they're never going
to now because he was offered a plea deal and
he doesn't give a shit.

Speaker 1 (43:52):
Because what's interesting, though, is he does have a tad
of empathy to his parents, right, Yeah, I believe that
he is absolutely taking a plea a because because there's
also been the discussion that his mother throughout this criminal

(44:12):
trial or leading up, she didn't want him to take
a plea. She was opposed to a plea, And then
I think they probably said, you know what, you don't
want to play ball. You know, we could get you
on certain things. We could get you on you know,
you know, obstruction, we could get you in all sorts
of things, and you're gonna go to jail. So stop
playing hardball and get him to do what we want

(44:34):
him to do. We don't care if he tells us anything,
but we want him to admit to this. And I
think in the end that was the small amount of
empathy that he had. Now the question that I think,
I'm actually you know what I'm not gonna ask. But
it also does look in casey two, the love of
a parent and a child, a child to a parent,
right where his parents were looking to overlook the fact

(44:59):
he likely brutally murdered.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Kids with young women.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I firmly believe that they they had some sort of knowledge.

Speaker 3 (45:11):
I mean, they had to at least have an idea, right, I.

Speaker 2 (45:14):
Mean, you it's.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Seriously cleaning his vehicle, like and you look at the
fact of like throw in he did have the same vehicle,
for God's sake.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
Well and he you know that the Howard bloombook, The
Requiem for the Idaho Murders, like it very you know,
in depth, goes through that cross country drive that. You know,
his dad flies from Pennsylvania to Pulman, Washington, drives back,
you know, not even a month after this happens, and
you see you know, two different you know, stops by

(45:46):
the police for quote tailgating. Now, what we've learned is
that obviously the FBI was following him and following him
all the way back to their home. But you know,
you you see the look in his dad's eyes, you
see the look in Brian Coberger's eyes, and you have
to believe that, like there had to be some inclination
that this was going on. And the way his dad
just kind of would like yeah to the police, right,
like we see these body cam footage and he's just like, oh, well, this,

(46:08):
this and this, and it's like it almost was like
he was in denial of what could potentially be going on.
Because here's my thing, there's no way that it within
ten minutes of each other, two different traffic stops for tailgating.
That if you're a rational human being, you've got to
be like, how are we getting pulled over again? By
the way, they aren't looking for a car that my
son's driving. By the way, he was ten minutes away

(46:30):
from where he's happened, by the way, he's been a
fucking weirdo his whole life. Like they had to have
known all this stuff or at least thought.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Right, yeah, it's it's all very like coincidental. I definitely
think that's the main reason that a plea was offered.
I think they had always wanted a plea. Listen, I
mean any state, federal group. I mean, this is how
the federal government has a ninety eight percent conviction rate.
They don't convict ninety eight percent. Literally every case is

(46:57):
plead right that the government comes you and says, hey, Casey,
we know you were selling narcotics. We can just get
your own conspiracy because we know and we've done all
the work. Here's what you can do. You can either
take a plea. We'll give you six years. You could
go to court and fight it and if we win,
we'll give you football numbers you get out in thirty years.

(47:18):
Or you can cooperate and you're a dead woman regardless.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
So what do you want to do.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
So they're always going to do that, and that's why,
like please are always very good because the statistics are
given to you.

Speaker 2 (47:30):
There's an end of the case.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
The person is always going to go to jail and
for them, and I go back to kind of the
kind of wrapping this up and the only people that
in the end miss out are the families of these people, right,
It's I.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
Think that you've got to feel so bad for them.
And I mean you you you've said that from you know,
the day that we heard the plea hearing it is like,
you know, we from from a standpoint from me who
has no actual personal connection to this case, like I might.
Thank god he actually admitted out loud that he's guilty,
because I think that the fact that he actually here's
a question for you going into that, how long do

(48:05):
you think that his defense team knew that he did it?
How long do you think Ann Taylor knew.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
Do you think? I Mean, that's always a question that
I have with a lot of things, because again, like
I don't I think all of us will speculate whether
he did it or not. But like for her, I don't.
I don't think any attorney that defends criminals, I don't
think they really care to be honest, Like.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Her, her goal is like get him off.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
Like we look at oj Simpson, like I think it's
probably he killed Ron Goldman and and and uh Nicole
uh what was her name?

Speaker 2 (48:37):
Brown? Right?

Speaker 3 (48:38):
What was her name?

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:39):
Jimpson Brown again?

Speaker 3 (48:41):
And maybe this again, maybe this is where I should
never be selected for jury trial. Like I'm like, he
absolutely did him give me zero seconds to deliberate. He
did it. You know. It's like I'm like, I don't
need to see anything.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
Well, yeah, and I think like that's that's that's that's
a good point.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
But like I think for her, like.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
Did she have her own personal opinion, probably, but her
thought was I think a lot similar to mine. Okay,
I don't really care regardless. I want to look at
what I know and I want to look at proving
against that.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Right.

Speaker 3 (49:11):
So that's what's so frustrating is like you know, you
said the families end up missing out on it, and
it's been you know, I can imagine two and a
half just brutally, brutally hard years, and it's like if
you were gonna end up pleaning guilty anyways, and like
watching that, you know, watching not only him say yeah
I did it, but to each and every count, to
each and every name, to each and everything, and saying

(49:31):
you know, I'm guilty because I am guilty all those things.
It's like, why did you? Why stretch us out for
so long and make these families? So that's what, honestly,
that's what made me the angriest. That's what like watching that,
it was like, so you were just going to admit
that you did this anyways, right, you were just gonna
say out loud, yeah, I killed all four of these
innocent kids who were just living their lives and it

(49:52):
just started to live their adult lives. And then you
still put these families through two and a half years
of waiting, and right before the trial is set to happen,
you're like, yeah, fuck it, I didn't throw me.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Well that's but that goes back to his control stuff.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
Like but that's where like the defense, it's like, what
were you doing trying to make up all this dumb
shit stargazing when it's a blizzard and it's four am
on a cloudy night, Get real?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
Like, Well, I think for them, they they were just
trying to present, you know, like they were trying to
be defense attorneys. But I get what you're saying. I
think though, this is what shows you that Brian Coberger
is a very cold, sadistic, depraved person. Where they're generally
when you're you like, look at a courtroom, right you
see these young kids, right they're smiling and laughing about

(50:35):
killing people like their phonies, they're frauds. They're just trying
to look cool or whatever. This is Like you look
at his demeanor.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
That's like a.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Real cold, callous dude, right, Like he just sits there
and is like yes or you know, nods his head
like it wasn't he wasn't trying to put on a show.
It was just like, you know what, I'm who I am.
You know, do you think in his head he was
thinking like, oh my god, I can't.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Like maybe maybe.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Eventually he'll say to himself like what the fuck did
I do here? But right now it's you know, he's
living on cloud nine in his infamy head as far
as you know what he did now we look at it.

Speaker 3 (51:13):
Yeah, I don't think he'll ever I don't think he'll
ever care. I don't think he ever. I think the
only thing he probably is is thinks about it is
the fact that he left the knife sheath. I truly
do believe that. I think true, Like, I think that
in his mind he's like and and maybe you know, again,
if you think back in retrospect, like maybe go get
another car or something, because of all the different videos
that showed his car there, you know, at the scene,

(51:37):
but he wasn't, you know, there's no video of him.
But I do I don't think that he will ever care.
I think that had he not admitted to guilt and
if you know, God forbid somehow the jury didn't convict him,
I think he planned on doing it again. I think
that there was there was something in his head that
thought he had gotten away with it, and maybe that
is why he tried to fight it. But like you said,
at the very beginning of this, and it's been very

(51:59):
clear from the get go, whether it was in Moscow,
whether it was in Boise, it seemed like nobody really
wanted to have anything to do with this trial because
it was so gruesome and there was so much attention
on it. You know, tearing down eleven twenty two King Road,
I thought was one of the worst decisions. I know
the families didn't want it. That right there tells you
they weren't really taking into consideration what the families wanted.

(52:22):
Because we've seen in other criminal cases, the jury gets
to walk through the crime scene and they get more
of an idea tearing the house. Dound basically said, we
don't even want you to have that option. We want
this away, we want this behind us. So the whole
thing ends up coming to like this was the easiest
decision for the state of Idaho. It was the easiest
decision for the prosecution, the judge, the defense. And the

(52:43):
only people that will that will suffer from this are
the families. And this is not what they wanted. But
Brian Koberger will never care that he did it. He
would have tried to do it again. And I think
that's why this is a sad ending for them. And
I mean maybe maybe on the twenty third, when when
you know, the sentence thing happens, maybe they have to,

(53:04):
you know, have him say something we don't know what's
going on behind closed doors.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Well, they will offer him a chance to speak.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Which I mean, you don't think he would unless he's
forced to write.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
You know. I actually think that I think he will speak.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
Is he genuine? Yeah, if he is genuine, I don't,
I don't know. I don't, I don't. I wouldn't imagine
he will be. I do actually think he will say
sorry for it, I do.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
Does he mean infuriate me? H?

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Does he mean it? Probably?

Speaker 3 (53:31):
No thing here and I and you may you may
know more about this than me. This is something that
again I didn't I didn't pay attention to until you mean,
up until last week. So I know that in different
states they have different laws. But like, would there be
a scenario where Judge Hipler says, you know, hey, I'm
gonna because he's already accepted the plea, but like when
it comes to sentencing, like in this interim until we

(53:53):
get to the twenty third, could they make him, whether
it's public or not, say hey, here this is where
I threw the knife.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
No, they can't.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
Okay, that's the.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
Case in point.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
There's a there's an individual currently on Indiana death Row,
William Clyde Gibson, very very concerning dude, probably killed dozens
of people, right. He gave an interview to uh the
BBC about five years ago and he said, I absolutely
killed multiple people that they don't know about. I'll never

(54:26):
say where they are. I'll never say who they are.
You know you don't have to. No, I mean it's
it's it's fucked up. But yeah, no, they don't have
to say anything. And he's one of the you know,
he's a William Clyde Gibson type. He's never gonna say anything.
I could have him totally wrong, and maybe he'll come
out and say everything and just be like, you know
what it's it's it's hampering me.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
I need to get it off my chest.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
I guess my whole thing is and I go back
to why he accepted the play and why I think
it absolutely has to do with his family because to me,
and in terms of if I were him, I would
never accept the plea for life in prison. Because when
you look at the state of Idaho Casey, they have
currently nine people on death row, all men and actually sorry,

(55:11):
one female as well, but they haven't They've only executed
three people since nineteen seventy seven when they enacted the
death penalty. You look at some of the people currently
on death row. An individual Thomas Creech, he was received,
which means he went to that prison in nineteen eighty
three Jesus where he was convicted of beating to death

(55:32):
an inmate in another institution, so he's been there since
nineteen eighty three. You look at several others I got
Timothy Dunlap convicted in nineteen ninety two of first screen
murder of killing a woman during a bank robbery. You know,
these people have sat there for a long time. You
look at the one female, Robin Rose, She's been there

(55:54):
since nineteen ninety three after she killed and set the
fire of her home that killed her husband's son and daughter.
You know, these people sat and sat and sat, and
with the appeals process, you know, you can draw this
out for long periods of time. And this is not
a state like Texas. Texas executed someone like monthly. This. Yeah,

(56:14):
this is not the state of Texas. That's why again,
I have to believe this had something to do with
his family. And I'm guessing they were gonna throw the
fucking book at the family and say, not only will
we put you on the stand, we will criminally charge you,
and we will give you the fucking max. Don't screw
with us here. We want to plea. Now people are

(56:37):
gonna say, where will Brian Coburger go. He's only going
to go to one place. The state Idaho has won
super max. It is called the Idaho Maximum Security Institution.
This is the highest level Brian Coberg will never see
a low or like some kind of medium security. It's
never gonna happen. This is one of the worst prisons

(56:59):
in America. It confines the most violent offenders that the
state of Idoh has. This is going to be a
twenty three to one facility when he leaves the when
he leaves his cell, he'll be shackled and handcuffed. He
will work out in a basically a cage outside. This

(57:21):
is the worst level of incarceration you're going to have.
And this is a state facility, which means this is
the worst time you can do in the Feds. You
at least have, you know, it's at least a little
cleaner things like that.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
This is the worst of the worst.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
So if you wanted Brian Koberger to suffer, he is
going to suffer. And I think the one thing I'll
end this with is I talked Casey to an individual
about a month ago. He was in the ad X Supermax.
It is the highest level federal facility this country has.
The worst people in this country go to a terrorist

(57:59):
car tell bosses he was there for Approxy two and
a half years and he told me, said it wasn't
the time. It was the lonely fact that like I
didn't see someone for days on end, months on end,
and like your everything about you deteriorates, your vision, your
your mental everything. It's the you know, being alone, you know,

(58:23):
like truly being alone, right, And Brian Coberger is gonna
have And what they'll do is they'll fuck with his mail,
they'll uh, they'll mess with him. Like that's just how
it's gonna go, and that's a just end for him.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Yeah, I agree, and that again, I will never speak
for any type of victim or victim's family because I
don't know how that feels. And you know, obviously I
hope I never do, but I do hope just for
their sake of and they'll never have real closure, they'll
never have real peace. I mean, how could they but
that down the road, once all the media calms down
and once you know, the we kind of pick up

(58:57):
and move on to the next true thing, that they'll
be able to look back and they'll be like, hey,
you know, it sucks that we waited all this time
and we didn't get any of the answers and we
didn't go through a trial, but at least we know
he's rotting away. In a shitthole place like that, and
that there is absolutely no way the prosecution could have
messed this up. There's no way that there's somebody on
the jury that you know to be quite Frank says, hey,

(59:20):
I have reasonable doubt and I can't put this man away,
you know, in prison for the rest of his life
or put him on death row. That this is a
just end. It just sucks because you're a normal person
and I'm a normal person, and we see it a
different type of way. But at the end of the day,
like this to me is a win for people to say, hey,
he's never going to be able to do something like
this again. He's never going to be able to hurt

(59:43):
somebody again, to kill somebody again, to lust after somebody again,
whatever it may be, and hopefully one day the families
do feel a little bit of peace with that. It
just sucks as it feels like he got his way
to a certain.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
I think what will happen though, Casey, and this is
something that that I don't think anyone will really tell you.
I think the the one issue that he's going to
have is twofold number one. I think they're going to
have a real hard time, Like, let's ask you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
I'll ask you this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:10):
Let's say you're at the Idaho Maxim Security Institution.

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Would you want a house with this guy?

Speaker 3 (01:00:16):
Absolutely not?

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
Would you want this guy in your shell?

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
I mean no, And you know what they're you know,
not only that, like I mean you don't want that,
but also just like you talk about criminals wanting notoriety,
like you think about the criminals that are in there
that no one gives a shit about, right, that everyone's
forgotten about, and they look at this guy and their.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Own That was going to be my second point, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
Like who are you this?

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
You know, this very generic white looking guy who's just like, oh,
you just killed.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Well, I think he'll I think he'll check in, which
means I think he'll say that his life is at
risk and he needs to be in PC protective Costody.
I think he'll That's why I say his life is
going to be really lonely, because I think he'll have
to be in PC because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
I don't know how they like.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
He's like a guy who like there are very few
people that are like him, not on death row. Like
that's my kind of point here, right, I think, And
you made a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:01:06):
Like he did kill women, right, Like he's like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
I would think he'd have to fear for his life
and checking a piece he I would think I.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Would have to because I do. I do think mean granted,
you know, you hear a lot of times with you know,
like criminals who who are charged with crimes against children
that usually like gin pop takes care of them. These
were obviously adults, but they were still very young adults.
They were still college kids, and there's still the element
of like, you know, these three young girls who and
then obviously Ethan Chapin being kind of collateral damage because

(01:01:38):
he just happened to be there with his girlfriend. Like,
I think that there is an element where it's like
there's gonna be a lot of people that are like,
hey man, what the fuck? But I do I do
believe that he is going to be I mean, for lack.
I think he's a coward. I think that he you know,
obviously he wasn't cowardly to go kill those people, but
he's a coward. He didn't want to face death row.
You're absolutely right, he's going to be cowardly and say,
oh I'm in I'm in danger. And it's just like

(01:01:59):
this guy. He is just going to have to live
for the rest of his life, you know, hoping somebody
else doesn't do what Steve Gonzalvez wants to do to him,
you know, what these families want to do to him.
And it's not going to be easy. But he doesn't
have to be killed by you know, a firing squad,
and that's what he's scared of because he's a coward.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Well, and that's the thing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
I think you make a really good point at the
end of the day, Like he is, you know, he's
a tough guy in terms of killing you know, innocent people,
but he's not a He's not a gangster, No, he's not.
You know, he would get you know, like when he
goes to Upstate, like he's that's really where I think
it's going to hit him.

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
I will say the difference between him and I think
a lot of the gangster types is he's just a
crazy motherfucker, right, Like he's just crazy, you know, like
people that kill people in the street, like a lot
of them are doing it for like monetary reason or
you know whatever, Like he just did it because he's
fucking crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:02:52):
But he all but yes, and yes, he's fucking crazy
and all that. Like I mean even that story they
had on Dateline, like just that little detail that was
like so just haunting to me about how he had
the you know, the female colleague who he was moving
stuff around in her apartment, not hurting her, but moving
stuff around and then like you know, she started noticing
it and all that, like this was all a power

(01:03:13):
play on women who he believed he had power over,
Like these are gonna be big, tough, criminal dudes. He's
gonna be gangsters. These are gonna be guys that don't
give a shit, and he's gonna come in and you're like, oh,
this big tough guy who targeted these college age girls,
these tiny, little blonde and burnette girls that couldn't defend themselves. Well,
we're not those people. And that's me is something you know.

(01:03:33):
It's like you know, you watch Steve Gonzalez gets so
frustrated and you watch and I know I mentioned this
the other day, like it's a Hollywood movie, but law
abiding citizen with Gerard Butler like those that's the type
of feeling that I would have as a parent if
that happened. These are he's going into a place where
those criminals are like, yeah, I'm not a nineteen year
old blondeheaded girl, dude, Like I'm not a twenty one
year old girl that was just excited to show off

(01:03:55):
my range. Drover, Like, you're you're messing with real criminals here, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
And the people that are in I mean that are
in those there are already lifers as well. So it's
done to even you know. I think, if if, if
this is why, like you know, you make a good
point if it were me, I mean, I try to
get in contact with one of them and say, look,
I'll send you ten g's get rid of this fuck
and make it real bad, you know. And I wouldn't

(01:04:19):
care if I went to prison, you know, I just whatever.
But I think I think what will happen is when
he goes in finally upstate, like when he's sentenced and
everything he'll go through, which is whatevery inmate goes through,
like a psychiatric consultation. That facility I believe has approximately
thirty ish beds for mental illness prisoners doing life.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
I think he'll be in something.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Like that, Like he he's not a normal person, like
this is a person. I think we'll find out that
he has major mental problems, and they'll put him in
some sort of like life like mental word like which
it will be really bad and that's where he'll be.
But I agree, I think he's in with uh, some
of the real tough guys in there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
So and that's like, that's the hope, right, is that
if there is like this power trip of you know, oh,
well you're you're not going to kill me on my
term so that somebody else just says, okay, well and
I'll just stab you to death because I can and
I don't care either. So it's just it is it
is a sad ending for the families that he gets
to flee out and it's not he gets to walk
and potentially do something else. And you know, with all

(01:05:24):
the fascination around this case and all the you know,
the the conspiracy theories and you know, the evidence with
the lack of evidence whatever, like it's still you still
with his own voice heard him say he did it,
and that to me, you know, does put it put
it at least a happier ending than could have been.
But it's just awful because these kids are never going
to get to live again, and it's just awful and

(01:05:45):
tragic that evil like this exists in the world, and
I just you know, I wish the best of the families,
and I don't know how you get peace from it.
At least this is over from this chapter, you know,
now they can move forward.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Yeah, you're right, and the you know, I I also
it is very sad in terms of them because they
also didn't really have to say.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
It was just kind of done, which.

Speaker 3 (01:06:07):
And that's and that's what you know, that's what I'm saying.
They didn't. They didn't. You know, two families said they're
okay with the two families didn't. But you go back
to the tearing down of the house. None of those
families wanted that, and they did it anyways. You know,
the plea hearing starts with Judge Hipler condemning they didn't
say the name, but condemning the Gonzalez family for saying, oh,
you should call and ask for him not to accept

(01:06:27):
the plea. All these different things like it was never
about these families, and that's why they have every right
to be upset with the state of Idaho, upset with
how it all was handled. But at least you got
the voice of that awful man saying yes, I did it.
And now they don't have questions of who did it,
They have questions of why, and they have questions of
you know, how could this happen to our children? But
at least you have that, and it's not a jury

(01:06:49):
saying well we think he did it, let's throw them away.
You know, at least he admitted it with his voice agreed.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Now, as you said, the sensing in this case would
be July twenty third, so you know out, you know,
a couple of weeks away.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Uh, and and that will be the end. There won't
be any appeals, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Which is which is something that's that's nice about a plea? Uh,
that'll be that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
And and you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You know, in a year from now, two years from now,
he'll he'll I think he will be in a much
different state of mind. It's all easy now to be
you know, the the the infamous one. But uh that
eventually it'll set in. So yeah, uh, that's that a
weird ending to this case. But the good thing is
Brian Coberg is gonna pay for his uh forced crimes

(01:07:34):
casey Uh, I'm sure you know, and I know sadly
this won't be the last major case.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
I'm sure you and I will talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
But we've had a lot of big ones recently, obviously
Karen Reid and Diddy and and the Coburger case. You know,
there's all sorts of of of things that are constantly
rolling around, and uh, you know, again, it won't be
the last. You've had a lot of murder all the
last couple of years, a few others, so I'm sure
we'll have you on again. It's great too. Uh, It's
great to talk to you and great to chat about this.

(01:08:03):
I guess I'll end with this.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
By the way, I think I said the episode was
two hundred and nineteenth and eight shows. But nonetheless, what
do you got coming up with football? I'm cherished by that.
I want to you know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:15):
It's like, ironically, I because I know you and I've
casually talked about the Karen Reid case, but I was
like absolutely in deep with that watching that that second
trial every single day, and I made, you know, my
friends said, you really need football to start, because I
was like, I'm seriously, I watched every second. Actually, right
before I jumped on with you, I was watching Turtle
Boys interview with Alan Jackson because with her defense attorney

(01:08:37):
because I loved him so much and I never believe
she did it. Beside the point, I need football. I
need it bad because I need something else to focus on.
But you know, the College Football Show with me and
Dave Portnoy, Big Cat, Brandon Walker, Big E, that'll be
traveling again for our eighth season, which is crazy. The
NFL Show is adding John Gruden this year. Oh really, yeah, yeah,

(01:09:00):
I can't wait. So will Compton and Taylor Lawan. Busting
with the Boys obviously is no longer with Barstool, but
we hired John Gruden, so he will be sliding into
that desk along with Fred Smoot, So it'll be it'll
be a crazy season. I still sometimes like we you know,
we did the mini golf tournament in April and John
Gruden's on my team. I'm looking at him like, how
the fuck is Coach Gruden like playing mini golf with

(01:09:20):
me right now? But it's gonna be a crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
I'm a big I'm a big fan. Is he's uh,
he's really good. I like his you know, I like
when he talks football, and you know, he's just you
can tell he loves the game, right.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
It's all He that's all that man knows. I mean,
when we hired Mike Kadick, who you know, just got
out of playing football at Indiana, the first thing he
did was have him get down in a three point stance.
He was like, get down right now and get you know,
And I was like, he's not exploding off the line
of scrimmage here, coach, Like he's just walking into the building.
But I you know, John Gruden's brain is so interesting

(01:09:52):
with that. But it really does come down to you know.
I mean, obviously you know the company, and like I'm
I'm so excited for another season. It's like you never
know what's gonna happen when this guy, but you never
know what's like we're going to have a blast. So
for me to even say that I know where we're
going to travel or what it's going to look like,
I just know that the show's bigger and better than ever,
and I'm stoked. I mean, it's the eighth season, like
I said, so I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Well, I know there's a lot of fans of football
out there, so make sure you check out everything Casey's doing.
You know, the eighth season of the College Football Show.
That's pretty uh it's pretty amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:10:22):
Like time really, Like I know everybody says as you
get older, like time flies. I'm just like, how in
the world you know, Like I have a two year
old son. I'm like, what, Like, did I just like
wake up ten years later? I can't believe it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:33):
Well, I realized that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
I So I turned thirty six on Thursday, and I
realized that. You know, obviously when I turned thirty five,
I was on I was closer to fifty than I
was the twenty.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
So you just turned thirty six or you turned thirty six.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
No, turn thirty six on the ten.

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Happy, Happy early birthday. So we're the same age. I
turned thirty seven in October and I saw I'm sure
you saw it too. I think that that big cat
Dan quote tweeted it. But that we're close now, we're
closer to the year twenty fifth than we are two thousand,
and I'm like, that's just not Like I just can't
believe that. What do you mean? Like I I joke
around with my girlfriends then I said, you know again,

(01:11:08):
I have a two year old, and I'm like, but
I'm a teenage mom, Like, who let me have a kid.
I'm a teenager. I'll be thirty seven this year, but
I feel like a teenage mom. It's crazy, like how
how fast time flies now?

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
I talk about it all the time. I mean, a
day is so quick anymore. I mean you always talk
about like like when football ends, always like I can't
believe we have seven months till it's back, and then
it's just for you know, like it was just Memorial Day.
It's already been to three days since July fourth, like June.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
June just didn't exist. And I, you know, you're obviously
a big football guy too, like I'm a I love
the preview magazines and I understand, you know, catual football
fans might not, but like as somebody you know who
does cover the whole sport, like I this is like
you know, magazine season for me, And I always say,
fourth of July happens, and it is very quickly. Kick
off two week one of college football, and I we
have you know, kickoff is in August this year, like

(01:11:56):
usually it's like September ish, but it's August thirtieth is
the first full week. I'm like, we'll be here in
no time and then the next thing, you know, you'll
blink it'll be the Super Bowl and then we'll cry
again on that it's over right, Yeah, and then it
just rents and repeat year after year.

Speaker 2 (01:12:09):
Well, I will say one final th in case before
we go.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
I know that, Like obviously you know, SEC Big ten
reigned supreme. We have a twelve team playoff again this
year after last year was great. I'm gonna give you
a team Navy. Navy is your G five representative. I
love it hit Navy. I'm very high on them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
This year.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
All back terrific. If you could stay healthy, they should
be undefeated. Going to the game of Notre Dame, a
game in which they got blown out last year.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Big chip on their shoulder.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
We know they're not going to make a ton of
mistakes with penalties, things like that. Big thing to remember
about Navy. Number one in the country last year in
touchdown percentage. When they got to the red zone, they
scored touchdowns. They were number three in the same metric.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
On defense.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
They don't let people score touchdowns, which is a good
thing if you're scoring a lot of touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
So yeah, I know, I love that. I'm telling you, God,
bless the truth. Yes, you know, it's it's always nice.
I mean, we you know, we we haven't done it
in a couple of years, but we always used to
go to Army Navy, the Army Navy game, and I
just like watching those two those two teams play each
other is always just so fascinating because it's like they
play for something so much bigger. But I love that.

(01:13:15):
And if you can back the troops going into the season,
I mean, what better than that.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
I still remember one of the highlights of of my
time at Barstool is when there was a college football
show at I think it was in Michigan maybe, and
I remember seeing there was a kid with a hashtag
nay do sign and the well, we we get.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
We get those a good amount too, especially if you're
you know, you're tussling with anybody at the at the company,
but you know the SI I will say, the signs
in the college football show crowds are always so funny
because you know it's the I always say, we're like
the drunk uncle of college. You know, We're like, we're
the drunk Goggle. We can swear, we can you know,
we're drinking high noons on stage, we're gambling. And then

(01:13:54):
the signs they can say and do whatever they want.
I mean, I we've had to you know. I think
one time to is signed down and it was just
because there was like graphic images on it. You know.
It's like the signs are always hilarious, but you always
you always have a presence.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yeah, it's always funny.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
But I got a kick out of that when I
saw that. But Casey Smith, good talking to you. I always
enjoyed talking about crime again. I'm sure we'll have you
back soon down the road to talk about the next
very sad crime. And yeah, Brian Coburger gonna do life
in prison, which is a just And thanks everybody for watching.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
Make sure you check out Casey.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
I'll include her Twitter account in the description of the show.
Thanks for coming on, Casey, appreciate anytime.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Yeah, and we'll see you next week here on sit
Down

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Episode 218- Idaho Murders | Bryan Kohberger Pleads Guilty

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 218- Idaho Murders | Bryan Kohberger Pleads Guilty