Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to The sit Down, a mafia history podcast. Here's
your host, Jeff Nado.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
What's up everybody, and welcome in to another edition of
The sit Down. As always, if you enjoy this podcast,
please make sure you leave us a detailed review and
a five star rating. Whether you're on Spotify or iTunes
or wherever you're listening, we appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I am your host, Jeff they do. This is episode
two hundred and twenty of The sit Down, and right
out of the gate, I want to let everybody know
this podcast, as you know, comes out on Wednesday. It
is the twenty third of July. I want to let
everybody know that the episode ending, well, actually the episode
(00:59):
going to drop on the thirtieth. We are going to
take a week off. I am going on vacation tomorrow
the twenty fourth. I'm going down to Wawa Crust for
almost a week, and I thought, well, I'm gonna take
a week. I don't take a lot of weeks off
on the show. In fact, I've only taken one week
(01:20):
off on this show since I started it over four
years ago. That was the infamous week where I was
away involuntarily, which I did an episode on. But we
don't take a lot of weeks off. I also have
someone that puts the show together for me. I'm gonna
give him a week off. So we're not gonna have
a show next week on the thirtieth, So we'll return
(01:42):
on the sixth, which I'm looking forward to. We've got
some interviews that we're gonna be putting out, some that
I've not recorded yet, some that I've already recorded. And
you know, this show is going in obviously the direction
that it's always went in. Yeah, as I continue to say,
you know, this show is alway evolving. You know, when
I first started, it was just a podcast. Then it
(02:03):
became a YouTube show, and then it became TikTok and
Instagram and all this different stuff. And you know, it's
been fun. So next week we're gonna take a week
off the week of the thirtieth, So no show next week.
We'll return on the sixth. Today, I got another great
show playing for you. Today. Is always going to delve
into someone that I've always kind of wanted to feature
(02:26):
on the channel. You know, I think at times, you know,
when we talk about organized crime, something that I've always
tried to do is I always want to feature maybe
the people that we don't talk about, right the guys
that you know aren't John Gotti or a Capone or
Chincha Gante, you know, or El Chappo. You know, I
want to talk about some of the guys that kept
the spokes turning. I've always done that here, you know,
(02:47):
whether we've done shows on you know, Caesar Bonventre or
bell At Barrata or SiO Parone or you know, I
don't know, guys like that, Andrew Campos, Frank Coopa. You know,
We've always tried to feature people that you probably haven't
heard of. And today I'm going to talk about a
guy that might be one of the biggest money makers
(03:10):
over the last twenty five years in the Gambino family,
a guy who's made money for fifty years, a guy
Sonny Juliana. We're gonna talk about him. We're gonna talk
about his massive bookmaking enterprise. So that's something we'll have
in kind of the second half of the show. Do
you want to talk a little news? I want to
talk about a little of the things that are going
(03:30):
on in the world of crime right now. We've actually
got some news out of Canada really over the last
week or two. I actually talked about the indictment involving
Lea Rizzuto A couple of weeks ago. We did an
episode kind of mid to late June on Lea Razudo
(03:51):
being arrested. That was a huge indictment that came down
on essentially all the governing body of the Montreal mafia. Well,
there's some more news that recently came to light. While
fighting a murder case. Baldi Barbario, who is the reputed
street boss at a family, the enforcer of the family,
(04:11):
one of the enforcers, one of the higher ups. He
was actually indicted in a separate case that goes back
to last year. Now, in terms of relevance, I don't
think it means very much, just because I think it's redundant.
I mean, if he's charged with murder and convicted a murder,
an assault charge isn't going to mean anything. But there
was a case that popped up last year in Saint Leonard,
(04:34):
which is outside of Montreal, involving Barbario assaulting a teenager
in a kind of a issue with his son. I
guess the son and friends of his are at a
movie theater. They were causing ruckus younger kids that you knew.
The sun intervened, Barbario shows up and I guess slaps
(04:57):
or assaults the sixteen year old kid kid that worked there.
Uh so they hit him with an assault charge. So
I mean, this is again the continued problems here that
most of the people inside the Montreal Mafia, the heads
of the Montreal Mafia, are you know, probably going to
go to prison. I mean again if they're convicted. No,
(05:18):
Barbario has been again an enforcer for a long period
of time, definitely has made kind of his inroads in
becoming a higher end individual in the family. A couple
of years ago, a black hitman attempted to kill him
inside of his garage in his home. He luckily was
able to survive in that. But you know, this is
(05:39):
again just kind of the you know, the steps of
of what happens when you become a mobster, especially in
Canada where it is very active right now. We also
look at some news that came out yesterday out of
a prison called Donna Khana Prison in in Laval, which
is outside of Montreal. One of the leaders of an
(06:01):
up and coming group called Arab Power was assassinated in prison.
A person called Sylvan Kabushi, a man that they call
one of the higher end leaders of this group. Arab Power.
Now Arab Power kind of began as a street gang.
Arab Power get into the extortion rackets in Laval and
(06:23):
in Montreal. They're very lethal group. They're made up essentially
of Northwest African people who came to Canada. They became gangsters.
Mister Kobuci is young. He's only in his twenties. At
the time of his death, he was twenty six. He
was serving a life sentence in the doc in Canada
(06:44):
for the twenty twenty one murder of a person called
Nichell Laspik, who was a part of a group run
by Greg Wooley, then eventually by the Celas Jones who
beef with Arab Power. Look a lot of people of
marked Kabuchi dead for a while, they finally got to him,
(07:05):
according to provincial police. They would tell media in Canada
that emergency services were called to the detention center on Sunday,
uh the twentieth after a man was assaulted by another
inmate at approximately ten thirty am. Paramedics performed CPR for
nearly forty minutes for his pronounced dead and that's that.
(07:28):
So again they finally got to him. Now he had
been dealing with shit in prison for a while. He
was under strict segregation due to some of his behavior
inside the Max Security institution. Kabuchi is uh is a
big timer. You know, he is considered to be very lethal.
He is considered to be very you know, depraved, you know,
(07:53):
and look he he died a very rough death, very
rough death. Now, in were about these guys. There have
been connections to the Montreal mafia. There have been connected
to the bikers and whatever power was is they were
kind of hired hit men. They would they would do
(08:15):
work for different groups. Kabuchi was essentially the number two.
It was behind a guy called Eunice, a Thake who
ran that group. And again they were doing work for
the Zudo family. They were doing hits for the motorcycle
club Hell's Angels. And this is also a group who
(08:35):
some people believe was behind taking out not only Greg Wooley,
but one of the Sella Shoon brothers. So these guys
were putting in work and you know, now one of
them is dead. And this is again the continued domino
effect of the Montreal underworld. It is a very lethal
(08:55):
a place. It is still very active, It is still
very uh concerning. If you're in the streets, you have
to watch yourself. You have to constantly be on the offense,
you have to constantly worry. This is what cities are now.
If you are in the streets, you have to deal
with a lot of this stuff now. And you know,
they finally got to Sylvaine Kabuci, who was a higher
(09:17):
up at our power and hit a very brutal end.
So little news coming out of Canada. Also, Brian Cooberger,
the gag order was lifted on that case. We're seeing
people that are starting to come out and discuss this.
People involved with the police around that area. Obviously Stephen
(09:38):
Goncalvas and his family continued to talk on this, you know,
And and sentencing will happen here very soon. I'm not
going to rehash that again. If you want to hear
more about that. We did an episode with Casey Smith
back on July eighth, that one came out to check
that out. I was kind of on the forefront of
talking about that case. So we have to wait and
(10:00):
see what sentencing comes down. And we also have sentencing
with Diddy that's going to come out here soon as well.
So yeah, a lot of a lot of sentencing to
come up with. I also will say I thought the
interview that Kathryn Ramsland did the doctor who kind of
was a teacher of Brian Koberger's when he was in college,
I thought that was fairly interesting. So you know, if
(10:23):
you haven't seen that, check that out. Before we get
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Let's get into the episode. Today, we're gonna talk about
Gambino mobster Sonny Juliano. Let's get to it. Sonny Giuliano
was born in November nineteen thirty nine in Brooklyn, New York,
(13:43):
and probably his infant years, he would grow up and
live at one twenty sixth Bay twenty fifth Street in Brooklyn,
according to the nineteen forty census. Now, Sonny Giuliano's father,
Joseph Senor, was actually born in Italy, per census records.
(14:05):
His mother, Louise, was a homemaker born in America, and
his father, Joseph, was a presser in a factory. According
to not only census, but draft records as well. Sonny
Giuliano did have one brother, a person called Richard, who
would actually follow him into the life which we'll talk about.
(14:27):
Giuliano also had a sister called Angela. Now, eventually, in
the nineteen forties, the Giuliano family would purchase a home
on eightieth Street in Brooklyn. What's amazing about that is
Sonny Giuliano still lives in that home today. Think about
(14:48):
that home, was born in the home, has bought the forties,
he still lives there. Pretty amazing. It's very unlikely that
a person grows up in a home, lives there, adult
life in that home, and then as an elderly man
in his eighties, still lives in that home. Sonny Giuliano
is Brooklyn to the core. Now, as far as Juliana's
(15:11):
early life connected to the mob, we would first see
him pop up. In approximately nineteen seventy three. Sonny Giuliano
is arrested in what was called a vast gambling indictment,
and it alleged that Giuliano ran a wire room located
on Bay twentieth Street in Bath Beach, Brooklyn. Now, today,
(15:33):
as far as gambling is concerned, wirerooms are not used
anymore due to the fact that pretty much every facet
of sports betting is now online, even illegal gambling. But
back before the internet was prevalent, let's say, in the eighties, nineties,
even the seventies and before that, the mafia operated in
(15:54):
essentially either a home or business that just as masked
as any other home or business. But in the back
there were a large room where people were sitting at
phones and literally writing down bets from different people. There
were boards, there were money, there were receipts, there were
all sorts of things and we would see that in
shows like Sopranos, here the crew can be seen behind
(16:18):
a strip club in a room where they're counting receipts,
they're counting money. And even in shows like the Sopranos,
there was a scene when I believe it's season four,
when Christopher's made, he oversees a wire room where he'll
go and there's lines up on the wall, and there's
people that manned the phones, and then there's a person
(16:40):
that runs the room. It was said that Giuliano kind
of operated and ran one of the vast gambling networks
inside a major gambling network. And we'll see throughout the
career of mister Giuliano he is a vast and huge
book maker, even up until possibly even still today. I'm
(17:00):
gonna guess at eighty five years old, he probably still
isn't during the day to day. But one thing could
be said about Giuliano. He made a lot of money
as a bookmaker, whether it was numbers, horse betting, sports betting.
He was characterized at one point as a very sharp bookmaker,
which we'll get into. Giuliano made a fortune in bookmaking,
(17:20):
and he pops up on the periphery of law enforcement
in probably even before the seventies, in the sixties, when
he's still in his twenties now, he would take a
lot of the illegitimate money he was making in bookmaking
and invested in legit businesses, various businesses, including vending in
(17:42):
game machines. There is still a company under his name
that is involved with gaming as far as machines and vending.
Whether it's still active, I don't know, but it was
created and it's under the New York State Business License
Ree Service. It was also that he maintained interest in
businesses at the Fulton Fish Market, including one that he
(18:06):
had an involvement in that we'll talk about here in
a bit, where people that worked alongside of him in
bookmaking actually were involved in businesses at the Fulton Fish
Market and they were not allowed to work there due
to their relationship with mister Juliano. Now, what's very interesting
(18:27):
that I've noticed about Juliano is there's a lot of
people that don't even know he exists. Right, unless you're
very involved in understanding mob history and the various families,
you may not even know who Giuliano is. And that's
exactly how he wants to keep him he is an
old school mafioso. I can guarantee if he sees a
video like this one that I'm making right now, he'd
(18:49):
be very upset about it. He doesn't want to be known.
He does not want to be out there on Front Street.
He does not want to subscribe to Why be a
gangshift known as who you are? He's perfectly fine being
who he is. And what's amazing is he's one of
the very few people that we don't have an exact
making ceremony for or a idea of when he was inducted.
(19:10):
There's one thing we do know, and we would find
this out through the terrific YouTube and Patreon channel of
former Gambino captain Michael Mikey Scars di Leonardo. He would
state that, according to him, it's unclear whether Giuliano was
made during the reign of Paul Costellano or John Gotti.
He would venture to believe, according to him, that it
(19:30):
was probably likely in the eighties once John Gotti takes over.
Now we do know that Giuliano was originally involved with
a crew run by John Riccobono, which would then fall
into the hands of George de Chico. Now the Chico
became a captain and was Giuliano's captain for years. We
(19:51):
would also find that in a arrest that I'm going
to talk about involving Giuliano, the Chico's own son was
actually a co defended in that case involving Giuliano. So
we don't exactly know when Juliana was made, but it's
probable that it was in the eighties. That's one thing
(20:12):
I think we do know. Now I did mention the
Fulton fish market. It's possible that Giuliano either worked or
had some sort of involvement with a company that's still
in operation today called Bayer Lightning. From what I understand,
it's possible that mister Giuliana was involved in the salmon
market as far as selling salmon, So he was involved
(20:35):
in all sorts of things or had some ownership in
businesses in various different things. Juliana was doing what you
do you make illegitimate money, whether it's bookmaking or loan
sharking or whatever, and investing it in legit business. In
that case, he became a very rich man. Now, one
thing we also know is there's always a lot of
(20:57):
confusion on whether Juliano was in was a captain, whether
he was a recognized captain, was he an acting captain.
Here's why I don't think that he actually was. Number one.
George de Chico did not die until the twenty tens,
which makes it unlikely that he was captain in the nineties. Now,
(21:18):
mister Giuliana would ultimately sponsor his brother Richard into the family,
and we know that he was made into the family
in a ceremony in April of nineteen ninety nine. Now
this does come from the FEDS, but it also does
come from the testimony of a person called Primo Casserino.
Now I've done a video in premium Caserino could be
(21:40):
seen here. He would ultimately cooperate with the FEDS. But
the thing we do know about Caserino is he was
also made in that ceremony in nineteen ninety nine. According
to Cassarino, he would state that he and Sonny Secone,
who was a member of the Gambino family, were picked
up by Sonny Giuliano and taken to the Bensonhurst residence
(22:04):
of Giuliano's brother Richard. Now, the ceremony in which Casserino
and Giuliano Richard were made in was presided over by
Joseph Arcerry, who was a long time member of the
Gambino family. It was the typical ceremony and everything, and
that Juliana was present and was instrumental in proposing his
(22:27):
brother Richard into the Gambino crime family. Now, I want
to get into something that we haven't talked much about,
and that's arrest involving Juliana. There was one in the seventies,
but nothing really came of it. If we're being honest.
The thing about bookmakers that we have to realize is
(22:48):
it's not a real serious case of really being honest,
especially in terms of the mafia. I mean, you could
do a lot worse things than being a bookmaker. Is
it illegal? Yeah. Are you gonna get arrested for it
if you're involved with the mob? Yeah, But in the
grand scheme of things, if anybody watches this becomes a
bookmaker and you get arrested, I mean, it's a pretty
(23:09):
lowly charge for being frank. And you know, I think
mister Giuliano knew that. It was said that, according to
Mikey scars Sonny Giuliano was what he would call a
very sharp bookmaker, and that he had quote very sharp lines. Now,
what we know about sharp bookmakers is the use sophisticated
(23:30):
systems to compile their own odds. And you have to
know a lot about bookmaking. It's more than just finding
two teams and saying, well, I think this is this.
There's a lot that goes into creating a sharp line. So,
for instance, most bookmakers may offer a football team at
plus seven, Sonny was gonna always offer the sharpest right
where you're gonna have to really be a smart better
(23:52):
to beat them. And what also is good about a
sharp bookmaker is not only are they gonna have the
ability to set lines they're gonna be hard to beat,
but they'll consistently allow larger bets. They'll take bets from anyone.
And that's one thing I think really lost in the
present day sportsbook industry. Most bookmakers won't take bets from you.
(24:13):
They're not going to take large bets from you. But
I think also down the road, when you are a bookmaker,
you'll get beat for a few weeks and then you'll say,
you know what, I also have to be willing if
I'm going to take these bets. I have to also
find a lot of fishes as well. Who are going
to lose. Most smart bookmakers are always going to be
ahead of the curve and they're going to recognize. Look,
(24:35):
they might get beat for a week or two, but
people like this recognized if you are smart and you
were good at gambling, that is bad for business and
you will not be allowed to bet with them. And
Juliana was good at all those things. So again, you
might be able to get action down if you're a fish,
but if you're a smart better, you're always going to
get limited and or removed. And being a smart bookm
(24:55):
or if you're going to get into that trade, you
need to be very good at it because if you're
not good at it, you were going to to get
beat consistently and you're going to lose money. That said,
most of the customers betting with mister Giuliano were not smart.
Everything would ultimately come all the way down for Sonny
Giuliano in the early two thousands. In that time, he
was hit by the New York State government with a
(25:19):
wide ranging gambling probe which would state that he violated
the Organized Criminal Control Act, essentially stating that he was
operating a million dollar gambling ring and failed to report
gambling income on his personal tax returns. Now, there was
also another indictment where various associates of Giuliano who ran
(25:42):
the day to day operations of the gambling ring by
collecting bets from unknown better individual betters and funneling the
money to Giuliano. The associates were charge of promoting gambling
and with tax crimes for failing to report that income.
One of the people involved in that indictment was a
man called Robert that Chico of Staten Island, who is
the son of George Dichico. Now, what's interesting about this
(26:08):
group of people that's arrested here is there's one commonality
with a lot of these people. You know, a good
amount of them are in their seventies. And that was
something that was interesting about the indictment itself. We would
find that four reputed associates were in their seventies and
(26:28):
we're all funneling money to Juliana weekly, including one person
named Rocky Leeder Kramer seventy nine of Brooklyn, who walked
with a cane, another person called Oliver Bellinos seventy two
had a severe limp, and another Junior Dia Moore seventy five,
expressed concern to the judge that court appearances may hurt
(26:50):
his ability to regularly take his wife to the doctor.
At one point, Leader Kramer, an associate in this case,
would state, if I was a fucking terrorists, I wouldn't
come to Albany who denied working for the Gambinos. If
they have a case against me, do it, but don't
drag me to Albany. It's a waste of money. They
(27:10):
could have done this in Brooklyn, just the way they
did it up here. He's not wrong that said. The
state of New York is based out of its capital, Albany,
which was a pain for a lot of these old
timers who you know, were basically you know, people involved.
They were agents, and they had a bunch of people
under them that bet and ultimately it all funneled up
(27:33):
to mister Juliana. It was said that Giuliano had nearly
one hundred runners on the street, whether it was numbers,
bookmaking horses. I mean, there were thirty social clubs allegedly
involved in this operation. This guy made a lot of
money as a bookmaker. I mean, it's probably untold the
(27:55):
amount of wealth that he likely has today because of
all this and he's one of those guys Juliana where
he probably has the first dollar he ever made. You know,
he still lives in the same home that he lived
in as a young boy, so that kind of shows
you the kind of guy that he was. Ultimately, Sonny
Giuliana would plead guilty to one charge attempted enterprise corruption.
(28:18):
We would also learn that in this indictment Giuliano made
kind of a bad mistake. At one point he would
declare just one hundred and six dollars in income in
the year two thousand. Now he would also put that
he got retirement income from the government, but his personal
(28:40):
income as far as as well as that was just
one hundred and six total dollars, and he'd be su
a tax evasion as well. In the end, though, he
would only plead to one count and was hit with
one and a half years to four years in prison.
Good for him, though he only did about five months total.
He would have to forfeit five one hundred and seventy
(29:01):
thousand dollars in cash. That's really all the prison time
mister Giuliano would ever do in his life. Now, the
good thing is is they didn't go to prison. His
name did pop up though. It has popped up though
in various reports of the years highlighting the fact that
he's absolutely a member of the mafia, including not only
(29:25):
this case, but several others, including his association, including this
involving twenty seventeen, a port checker's registration was revoked by
a union for his association with Sonny Giuliano. According to
what this says, John Riccobono, thirty nine of New Jersey
had an ISLA registration as at a checker removed, so
(29:48):
he lost his job due to the fact that he
was not only associated with Sonny Giuliano, but other members
and associates of the MAFI. We would also see that
in a Business co Mission report, a person called Thomas
Tommy fish Sentina allegedly applied for a ability to work
at a Fulton fish market business, where he was not
(30:11):
given a licensure due to the fact that he had
an involvement in an association with Sonny Giuliano as well
and the fact that he had conflicting testimony involving his
association with Giuliano an acting Gambino captain. Now, again, I
don't necessarily believe that Giuliano was an acting or captain. Ever,
(30:31):
my guess is he didn't want to be it. He
made a lot of money as a soldier and didn't
need to be a captain. And we do know that
his captain, George de Chico, was alive until the twenty tens. Nonetheless,
we would also see Giuliano's name pop up in the
arrest of a former New York City police officer named
(30:52):
Michael Rizzi. Now Michael Rizzy was a police officer until
approximately two thousand, where his career ended due to a
back injury. He would eventually collect a disability pension. He
was though, arrested in the twenty tens involving a prostitution
case where he allegedly owned and operated a company called
(31:12):
BGM Manhattan Stakes and Entertainment, a company that provided high
end prostitution services to customers in the New York metro area.
It was said Michael Rizzy married the daughter of Richard Giuliano,
Giuliano's brother. Now mister Rizzi was also involved at one
(31:33):
point with gambling operations, and in this case operated an
office in the area of four sixty six Wild Avenue
in Staten Island. Now his company advertised services on more
than fifty websites, including NYC Escorts NYC dot com, Lash
Playmates dot com, and Elite Escorts NYC dot com, and
(31:57):
that the employees included telephone bookers who arranged appointments between
prostitutes and bjm's customers, as well as drivers who collect
cash and receipts from prostitutes, and that Rizzi accepted applications
from his escort business using his email account. One applicant responded,
I'm a fun loving girl who loves sex. I love
(32:19):
sex and if I get get paid for it, why not. Now.
BGM is a successor to a company called Pure Platinum Models,
a company that offered prostitution services. The US Attorney revealed
that some of the sex workers employed by Rizzy allegedly
charged as much as two thousand dollars per hour. Several
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customers allegedly spent more than one hundred thousand dollars on
escort services. Some spent as much as twenty five thousand
in one night. Now. Rizzy was arrested back in two
thousand and nine by the Organized Crime Division for his
role in a sports gambling ring that involved who else,
the Gambino crime family. Now I'm not going to state
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that mister Giuliano or his brother was involved in this.
They weren't charged or anything. That said, I did find
it as an interesting connection. Nonetheless, Now, mister Giuliano today
is eighty five years old. Over the last ten years,
he was identified as being a member of a ruling
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panel that oversaw the Gambino crime family, and others included
on that panel were John Gambino and Anthony Guerino. Now
Guerrino and his brother Caesar of long time been members
of the Gambino crime family and came up over under
John Gotti. They were the owners of a company called
Arc Plumbing who gave John Gotti a job during his
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reign and offered him a no show paycheck. It's unclear
whether Giuliano actually was on that panel, but according to
the FEDS, he was. Sunny Giuliano is likely one of
the most wealthy members of the Gambino crime family today.
He likely has the first dollar he ever made. Not
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only is he rich in money, but he's rich in
other areas too. He has no heed on him, he's
extremely respected, he did little prison time, and he's given
absolute deference and royalty treatment in Brooklyn. It's likely that
every place he goes, he has a parking spot already
made for him. He's given the ability to have his
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car unloaded for him. He likely pays for very little
in that area. He's lived in his entire life, He's
probably owed that much. People like Sonny Giuliano are the
people that I've talked about for four plus years on
this channel, people that keep the spokes of the mafia turning.
They're big earners, they don't make a lot of waves,
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they don't cause any problems. They do what they do
and are members of a criminal organization and are given
respect wherever they go. One other key to being Sonny
Giuliano is not associating yourself with idiots, not associating yourself
with informants, keeping your circle tight, not being in front
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of the camera all the time, and limiting violence. If
you can do that, the popcorn cases will pop up,
but you'll do very little time and die in your
own bed. I hope you enjoyed this video on Sunny Juliano.
If you did, please hit that like button. If you
enjoy this channel, feel free to contribute. Hit that thanks
(35:34):
button under the video. We'll see you next week here
on the sit down,