Episode 227- Sinaloa Cartel Leader El Mayo Zambada Pleads Guilty

Today we delve into the recent news surrounding an historic plea made by elusive Sinaloa Cartel Leader Ismael "El Mayo" Zambada. I welcome cartel journalist and global organized crime expert Stefano Ritondale to chat about what it means and well as what the future looks like for the Sinaloa Cartel. We also talked about a disturbing story coming out of Juarez, Mexico involving a drug cartel targeting pregnant women for sham adoptions. 

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USE REFERRAL CODE- JEFFNADU

Jeff Nadu is an American Mafia and organized crime researcher, podcaster and content creator. He has worked at Barstool Sports and was hired personally by Dave Portnoy. His podcast "The Sitdown" with Jeff Nadu has put out hundreds of biographies on various mobsters, gangsters and criminals. He's also personally interviewed mobsters like Sammy "The Bull" Gravano, Dom Cicale, Anthony Ruggiano Jr, Gene Borrello and others as well as US Prosecutor John Gleeson and FBI Agents Joaquin "Jack" Garcia and Michael Campi. He has been personally endorsed by former Gambino mob captain Michael "Mikey Scars" DiLeonardo, esteemed author RJ Roger, and former Colombo Crime Family captain Michael Franzese.

DISCLAIMER: My videos and podcasts are meant for entertainment and educational use. All material found in my videos reflect this use. ANY opinions and or statements of any guest is merely he/her's opinion. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to The sit Down, a mafia history podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Here's your host, Jeff nado.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
What's up everybody, and welcome in to another edition of
The sit Down. I'm your host, Jeff Nadou. This is
episode two d and twenty seven of the podcast. Hope
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(00:43):
all that good stuff. It helps grow the show and
allows us to do two hundred and twenty seven episodes
and many more here on the show.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Got a great show planning for you today.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
I get people all the time talking about what's going
on down in Mexico, what's going on with the cartel world,
and you know the differences with the America mafia. There's
not a lot always going on, but the cartel world
is full of info. Recently, A Miles Sambada pleaded guilty
to a life of being the.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Head of a drug cartel.

Speaker 1 (01:13):
We'll talk about what that means, what will happen to Elmyle,
Did he flip and will he become essentially a rat.
We'll talk about a really concerning and bizarre and demented
report coming out of Juarez that I know our guest
was involved in. Is there a supercartel? Are there supercartels
now Mexico? Is that the future of where this world

(01:36):
is going? We'll talk about influencers being taken out in Mexico,
which is a normal thing.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Now, where do we go from here?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Will President Donald Trump actually intervene in the drug cartel world?
And I'll also talk about while again I don't think
that will ever happen, why it won't ever really make
a difference. Before we bring our guests in, as always,
I want to shot out our presenting sponsor, guys. Football
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(02:06):
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let's get to our guest. He's been waiting. We've had
him on the show before. It's our friend Stefana Rittendale.
You can find him on Twitter at All Sourced News.

(02:52):
I would also highly recommend you check out his new app,
the new crime reporting tool that is really being built
and delivered by AI. It allows you to be up
to date on what's going on in the world from
a global crime standpoint. You know, Stefano's involved with some
great Twitter spaces. He's always writing very interesting blogs. We'll

(03:13):
talk about the app, we'll talk about what he's got
going on with that. Really, Stefano, we talked to you before.
You're doing a great job really keeping people up to
date on what's going on in the world of global
organized crime.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
How are you? Thanks for coming on.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
Jeff, Thank you so much for having me again. It's
always a pleasure to talk to you for those Again,
just thank you for the great introduction. My name is
Stefan Rendel. I'm the chief intelligence Officer of our tourius
or an AI data intelligence and Collection analysis company. The
app you're mentioning is sitrap. It covers a wide range
of issues. Obviously one of the main ones we do
is crime, cartels and organized crime, but anything from geopolitics,

(03:50):
health economics something that we've worked very much on. And yes,
as you mentioned, I mean the thing about Mexican cartels
is always evolving, is always changing in Mexico Isuela, and
it seems like there's never gonna be rest. So I
appreciate the time to talk to you in this great episode.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Yeah, I really appreciate you coming on. Yeah, sit rep
is is really interesting. It's a great way to look
I'm always really fascinated by what just goes on in
the world. And like, I mean, you're not just reporting
on South American or Latin America. I mean I've saw
I've seen posts about you know, Iraq, I've seen posts
about Cambodia. You know, a lot of people don't realize
and you know this that you know, we'll hear about

(04:28):
the global conflicts going on in the Middle East or
in Russian Ukraine, but there are nearly one hundred and ten.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Global conflicts going on currently.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
There are conflicts going on the Congo and Haiti, in
the Western Sahara, I mean, all over the world. And
you know it is sad that we only hear about
a few. But you can get real time alerts now
sit rep. Make sure you go download it on the
app store. So I want to start stafinal with obviously
the big news that Almaya Sambada Ishmael and Miles Sambada

(05:02):
has pled guilty to.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Essentially being the head of a drug cartel.

Speaker 1 (05:07):
And you know, we did learn I'm not sure that
we learned stuff, but we we found out a little
bit more about how his career started. You know, this
is a guy who you know is from Sinaloa. He
was born in Sinaloa. You know, I know that you
had heard, you know, for years there was always a
lot of like elusiveness with El Mile, as a drug
cartel boss would he's they're very elusive, but there was

(05:30):
also a lot of secret as to you know, kind
of why and how he was able to be a
drug trafter for fifty years and never really was arrested.
A lot of people thought, well, maybe he's tied in somewhere.
But I just want to kind of ask you out
of the gate he pleads guilty.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Would you agree that?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I mean, I know how the criminal just system works
in this country. A person at his level and at
his height, the only way he's ever getting a deal
is by collaborating and cooper I mean, is there really
a question is if is cooperating or not?

Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yeah, so you know that's a great question, right. So
you know, it's funny because his lawyer says that he's not.
But I think you're you're hitting the nail though. It's like,
I find it very hard to believe that the Justice Department,
UH wouldn't want cooperation from Miles Zambada, specifically in the
inner dealings of the Sinola cartel and the corruption aspect

(06:25):
within the Mexican government and even in some ways, you know,
how does that corruption reach the United States?

Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
One of the interesting aspects of this though, if you
compare it to kind of other cases of the recent
expulsion by the Mexican government, and I use that term
specifically expulsion. These technically these are not extraditions. So what
I mean by that before I get to the mile
Zambada is, you know, when the Trump administration, with the
second Trump administration, the threat tear aff the threat of
military action. One of the ways that the Mexican government

(06:53):
under Claudia Shambam, the current president, has kind of like
uh leaved kind of that political pressure from Trump is
basically said, okay, we will send you, you know, high
level cartel figures in the in Mexico to the United States.
But the way they're doing it is they're doing it
via expulsion because that way they don't have to go
through the judicious system in Mexico for an extradition. Because

(07:14):
we know the issue of extradition in Mexico a lot
of times with this with these judges, and the judiciary
is highly corrupt, right, and so it makes it that
these these cartel leaders are very effective of stonewalling extradition.
And so how the Mexican government worked around it is, oh,
we're not extraditing them, we're expulsing them, right, And so

(07:35):
we've seen dozens of cartel leaders. Actually there's one key
figure that I think is very influential, which is a
Guini who who is a Valentia family, I mean the
Gonzales Valencia family. He he a Guini basically runs the
CG and G financial network. Right, He's been in Mexican prison,
but Iguini was a very key figure of CGG financial

(07:58):
networks and in many ways, probably you can even analyze
it because he controlled the money in many aspects, He's
put probably much more powerful than in mentional even because
he controls it. He was part of that deal to
be expelled to the United States, and that's the key
figure that I'm looking at. I don't think is getting
enough media attention. But one of the deals that I
think the Mexican government did for the kind of the
the exposing these cartel figures was to not apply the

(08:19):
death penalty, right, And I think the you know, the
US government probably said okay, fine, well we'll accept that deal.
Mao Zambalba didn't fall within that. I mean, he was
basically kidnapped by the US. We talked about this in
your previous episode, right, So he wasn't part of that deal.
So the death penalty was completely open to Mio Zambaba.
And I think this is one of the reasons why
they said, okay, you could guilty. Basically, he'll get life
in prison with no possibility as a parole. He might

(08:42):
even be sent the same prison as a chapel and
bactically maximum security. I mean, this guy is going to
rot in prison for the rest of his life. And
I think the reason that you know, the lawyer saying, look,
they're not going to give information, I think, as you
alluded to, that kind of hard to believe. Right, that's
a little bit hard to believe.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I mean there's literally but because again you'd also then
have to start answering critics as to like, again, what
would be the reason you would make a deal here
if you're not getting anything out of it. The government's
never going to do that. I just don't see it.
I don't know why they would do it in the
first place. And to be quite honest, I mean, if

(09:20):
you really get down to brass tacks, I mean, in
his just admitting that he was part of this group
is looked at pretty pretty poorly in certain circles. Again,
I'm not going to get into what a rat is.
What it is, and that's not really important, but I
think what's interesting supon is we didn't learn a little
bit about Elmayo, and he talked about how he had

(09:40):
been selling drugs essentially since the late sixties, you know,
when he was in his late teens.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
He said that he started by trafficking weed.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I then went on to sell the drugs, especially coke,
which I mean, you look at the fact that he
was nineteen when he started. He's currently seventy seven years old.
I mean that's you know, sixty is years of being
in the drug trade. He would estimate that, according to him,
he trafficked one and a half million kilos of cocaine

(10:08):
during his career, which of most went to the United States.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Quote.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
I created a criminal network that I led and called
the Sinelo Cartel. The organization I led promoted corruption in
my home country by paying police, military commanders, on politicians
that allow us to operate freely. It goes back to
the very beginning when I was a young man starting
out and continued for all those years. He would also
state that he's quote sorry for the human toll of

(10:37):
the violence that he ordered over the years. I take
responsibility for all of it, and I apologize to anyone
ever affected by my actions. And that's something that you know,
when we think about the vast career that he's had.
I mean, how many people have died at the hands
of his behavior, his career, his counterparts behavior, And you

(10:58):
mentioned death penalty. I mean, seventy seven years old, he's sick,
probably not gonna last very long. But I guess people
would ask like that. Don't aren't familiar here? You know,
why why take a deal?

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Why not just why offer him a deal? Why not
just take him to court? He's never gonna win. I
don't know how much you know about how I mean,
the cartel groups have no real defense here. I mean
a lot of the time it's a free and easy charge.
Why even like, why not just go the El Menchito
route and just you know, screw it, we're gonna go

(11:32):
to court. We're not we're not offering a plea. Why
offer a plea if you're not getting anything here?

Speaker 3 (11:36):
You know, I think I think from a miles on
bos perspectives, he knew who was done and it could
be because of his age, and he just didn't want
to fight it. And what I would say is, I
think this is the fundamental difference. And when we're analyzing,
for example, Mexican cartels. So let's say organized crime in
the mafia, which you cover a lot of JEF in
the United States, which is which in right, if you
go to prison in the United States for being a
mafia boss, right, organized crime, you know, there's this there's

(11:59):
this belief that Okay, when you get released or you
get out or even inside, you know, you still have influence,
you can still get back in the game. Right. I mean,
how many people have you covered in the US I
maybe have been sent to prison and then they're released
and they're even worse.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, we know, it's funny. I've talked about that, you
know what, you know, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Virtually none of them go and get a job at
Walmart or or as a mechanic.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
They all go back to the.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Life exactly, exactly never Here's here's a perfect example. You
we talked about this as the previous epis so not
even an American weddings, right, the Canadian Olympian which Olympian, Right,
he went to prison, got released and now he's worse
than he wasn't originally, right, That's genuine the mindset. What
I would fundamentally say though, when you're analyzing this from
Mexican cartel perspective. Right when they get sent to the

(12:44):
United States, it's already the death census for them. They
might be yeah, yeah, that's it. They're They're done. They're not.
And that's the thing that I think there's a fundamental
misunderstanding we're analyzing Mexican in tile leadership, is that what
they fight the most is extradition to the US because
once they get once they set foot in the US,
it's the death sentence in the construct of cartel operations,

(13:05):
they lose all power, they lose all in Mexican prison,
they can still operate a lot of ways. We've seen
it with so the you know from the Zeta cartel,
you know I Guini for example, I mentioned earlier. You
could just go along the list of people and they
still have some level degree of influence, maybe more some
than others. But once when they get the US might
as well the US has did a drone strike and
ended it. It's no different, right and again like this idea,

(13:28):
like that's why when they go to the US, I mean,
you know, Hollywood kind of portrays like, oh, we have
a cartel boss in the US prison we're gonna ship
him from California to you know, a federal maximum security prison.
So swat because the cartels can come and liberate. That's
never that doesn't happen. That's not how these guys operate.
It's it's kind of baked in already as part of
almost like this business model, even narco culture, that if
you set foot in the US, you are done, You're dead,

(13:51):
and you and the organization immediately adapts. And we saw
it with Myazon Babas shortly after his capture, who came
and rose into the ranks with his son Maito Freko.
What I would say is Mayo Zambaba, I think with
your highlighting and when the plea deal and when he
declared guilty, I think that kind of shows really the
power Maazon Bada, because you know, when you would analyze
the Cineala cartel kind of the history of the Cinela

(14:12):
cartel and you watch it in the Hollywood et cetera,
you generally see the leader of the cinemag carptel being
a chapel and Mayo Zambada kind of feeling this role
as this right hand man, right his second in command.
But I mean, if you really delve into it. If
you really look into it, it kind of shows that
no Mayo Zambaba was the power. He was in controlled

(14:32):
the Cinaloa cartel. Sure you know again you said this.
I mean his role within the Cinela cartel goes decades,
thirty forty years, even longer probably when you're analyzing it
with his relationship with a chapel, and he built that
infrastructure and he was never he was again I've said this,
he was untouchable. Right out of all the cartel leaders
that maybe in my mind years ago that I thought

(14:55):
was going to be never touched was Maa Zambaba, and
he was because he was the power, he was in charge.
He was I think he was much more influential than
a chapel in the construct of power and and I
think that's kind of what this pre deal kind of
really shows. And it kind of goes to the heart
of that argument of his absolute power within the Sinaloa

(15:19):
Cartel and just in Mexico in general, and the ways
he played in the background of the influence he had.
I would say that what you've seen in the history
of Miles Zambala, where he started and where he ended,
he really became much more focused on you know, at
least in this within the Cinela cartel, he wanted to
maintain stability. I think that was a key aspect that

(15:40):
Miles Ambada was very much towards the later end of
his career, as you know, the leader of the Cinela cartel.
We've known that he's played a key role in trying
to maintain the stability of Sinela cartel, especially when al
Chappa was captured and when we would see sub factions fighting.
We did see Miles Zambala play more of this peacemaker
role within the construct of the Cinna Law cartel. Obviously

(16:00):
not outside of it, right he would you know, Mayazambala
was very violent against Haliska new generation, doing offensives there
in other areas obviously that continued, but at least within
the Sinala cartel he played more of that old you know,
father figure of trying to maintain piece of stability within
the Cineala cartel, which obviously after his capture and and

(16:21):
and imprisonment in the US, that that that stability was lost.
Now granted the Tapitos wanted this, but that's you know,
that's now why we see the Cinela cartel civil War.
But I think the key aspect of this indictment and
this plea deal is exactly that is that he was
the most powerful drug loader, not only within the Cineala cartel,
but I think in Mexican history, and even I would

(16:43):
I would even go a step further, is that not
even Pablo Escobar had the reach of Miles Zambada, simply
because you don't do this for decades, not even being
closely remotely touched and having such an international reach without
being the most powerful drug lord in the world history.
And I think when we're reanalyzing a lot of it

(17:05):
and we're looking at the history of Mexico from a
cartel perspective, the number one name will always come up
to be Miles. About that because decades of experience.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yeah, twelve said he'll be sentenced in early January twenty
twenty six. So you're again going to sit and holding
for a while. It's pretty simple, there's no other place
to and you just discussed how influential and powerful he is.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
He's going to the ad X. He'll be a sam's case.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
He'll be a special administrative measure that that will be
ruled upon by a judge that will be where his
end will be. Now again, I don't know if the
plea has something to do with He's not stupid. He
knows that's the only place they're going to send him. Okay,
he's arguably more powerful than Chopo, and that's the only
place that can house him. I mean, Chopo winds every
couple of months about the conditions in there, and the

(17:55):
conditions are horrific. I mean, we've interviewed people that have
been to the ad X and are under Sam's measures,
and there it is a awful existence. What's interesting, too, Stefano,
is he'll have to forfeit fifteen billion dollars. Now again,
I also know how that works. I mean, I'm not

(18:18):
sure he's capable of writing a check for fifteen billion dollars.
I mean, this is you know, I'm sure he'll give
a percentage of it back, but that's kind of a
ridiculous number.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
It does look good, though, and I did laugh.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
At the quote by Eastern District Prosecutor Joseph Nascela. He stated, quote,
this is a historic day with this guilty plea. The
Cinalo cartel has been quote decapitated. Now what's interesting is
since his twenty twenty four arrest, the homicide rate in
Sinaloa has risen a not one hundred, not two hundred,

(18:52):
not three hundred, but.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Four hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
I always get a kick out of I remember when
l Chappo was arrested, they talked about, how, you know,
the you know, essentially global drug trafficking.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
Is over now because we've taken this guy off the street.
You know better than me.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
The worst thing to happen to Mexico is when these
people get arrested, because, as you know, and as we see,
there's a power vacuum and we have a war. We're
just crossed the year mark of the inner war between
the Maito Flacco mob and they lost Chapitos. I post
videos all the time of different you know, areas of

(19:28):
you know, I mean, they're just they're they're terrible, that
the violence is at a crazy high. Explain kind of
how when you remove a leader, how really just destructive
that is?

Speaker 3 (19:42):
Yeah, I mean it goes back kind of kind of
this criticism of Kinking's strategy. And I would say, though,
I think it's important to highlight that people could criticize
the United States policy for doing that. But I would
also say that Mexico does this right, so and again.
But this goes to the difference. I think, what the
ace your district of New York with that quote, you said,

(20:04):
he's not wrong, no, because the Cinela cartel is dead.
Now you have two factors, those topitos and facts. The
construct of the Cinelala cartel is dead. It's it doesn't
It's like the golf cartel. They're not a unitary group anymore.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
There, Brents, you just a couple of different groups, is
what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Correct, Now, you can make an argument about violence. And
I think from and this is kind of something I've
talked to in a lot of episodes, that sometimes there's
a difference. Sometimes our our national security policy from an
American perspective from the Meccan perspective are aligned and sometimes
they're not. And this is a case example where maybe
there is a difference because the Mexican government obviously is
more concerned about peace and stability and and sometimes it's

(20:45):
just beneficial not to rock the boat, right that I
think that, you know, outside of the corruption aspect, which
is obviously very prevalent with Mexican political circles at the federal, state,
and local level. We're removing that from an argument's sake,
from a Mexican political sense, there's also concerned about security,
and they knew that this specific operation, I said this
in a previous episode, was going to leave the civil

(21:06):
war because the problem was right. You do have some
Cini scenarios where a leader gets captured in the group's
fracture in the civil war. Sometimes they quickly collal lece
around a new leader. But the way, because again this
was under the Biden administration, the way they did this
operation basically ensured civil war was going to happen.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
Right.

Speaker 3 (21:23):
The irony of the situation is is that if President
Biden sent Seal Team six to capture Miles Zambaba, we
might not have seen the civil war happen. The reason
why the civil war happened is because it was Juaquin Guzman,
the son of a chapel, one of the leaders of

(21:43):
those Chapitos, became an informant for the United States by
what I'm told by the FBI, specifically and tricked Miles
Zambaba and flew him to El Paso. So, obviously, when
the sun came into power and the Maito back then
was Mayo Zambada organization quickly call less around Maito Fraco.
Maito Fraco then set his eyes on those Shapitos to

(22:04):
declare war on them. Right, he didn't attack the US.
He attacked those chapitos. And the reason why I believe this,
if I may, I think those Chapitos felt betrayed when
Ovidia Guzman was captured in January twenty twenty three, the
second Kia Canaso. Right, because when the second Kolya Canaso happened,
those Chapitos requested help from members of the Maya Zambala

(22:26):
who are higher up there. They're more in northern Cineloa,
like northeastern Cinela along the border with Durango, and they requested, hey,
send your guys down to Kura Kan so we can
again as in Kuryakanaso one point zero. We just bombard
Kuria Kan and we forced the Mexican government to release
Ovida Guzman as the first time, and it looked the

(22:46):
Mio Zambala didn't send forces. And from what we're tracking
is Maazama Bala said absolutely not. This is your problem.
You did this the first time. We're not going to
get involved in the second time. We don't want that attention.
Ovidia Guzman was captured, sent Mexico City and then shortly
after extradited to the United States. And I think those
tarpitos kind of had the sense of betrayal. I think
he finacially bother had the sense of betrayal because of that,

(23:08):
and I think he felt that maleszon Baba was ultimate
goal was to remove those traapitos from power, so Mao
Zona Baba cound have absolute control. And that's why they
did this operation in a way to trick mioson Baba
and remove him from the picture. And this hope that
it would fracture the Maito Flacos from Mayozambada's organization and
they can come up and gain strength. I think Mariita
Flacco was very successful and quickly coalescing the Mao the

(23:31):
Mayos into his realm and declared one of those shapitos.
But again that's the problem where Mexico said, hey, we
don't want violence to go up. This was going to
cause it, and the US said, we don't care about that.
We want to weaken an organization. And the way this
operation was done was designed to do that well, were
designed to get I think the cinelag Cartel civil war

(23:55):
to occur at or at a minimum. They didn't care
if that was the outcome, because I think people need
to understand the reason why FETNAH was such a problem
in the United States was the Cinealoa cartel, and even
within that, both organizations were responsible, but even those Chapito's
more and I think there was a there was a
decision to say, the only way we can get the

(24:17):
Cinelona cartel, so the Cinela Cartel to reduce its strength
is through a civil war, and I think this operation
was the quickest way to do it, because if they
sent Seal Team six, Jeff, I don't think a civil
war would happen. They would just pick somebody else and
move on.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, I think I will go back to what I said.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I think more of my cynicism with with this government
is the constant hypocrisies. You know, when Donald Trump wanted
to get elected, it was we're going to kill We're
going to death penalty every cartel boss. And then now
it's well, yeah, but if they're too powerful, we'll just
make deals with them and we'll let them do what
they do.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
I mean you do know. I mean you're you're you're
a smart guy video Gusman. At some point we'll be.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Living somewhere in a ma just like the floor as twins,
doing interviews and living a normal life. That is not
what you told us you were going to do to
these types of people. And I get in making deals
is and that's more of my cynicism. I don't I
don't understand why we make deals with people like this.
I don't understand why we made a deal with a

(25:19):
person like Sam and the Boulgravano. I. I again, we're
really just passing the buck and saying, well, this person
is more powerful than this person, when they're all scumbags
and they're all bad people and they all need to
spend the rest of our life at eighty X.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
But that's more of my cynicism. I will ask percent.

Speaker 3 (25:36):
I look, I I I remember when I when when
the deal with a Vidia Guzman was announced, I was like, like,
out of all the administra, out of all the administrations,
the Trump administration could do with it, did Yeah, because
if it was Biden, can you imagine. Oh, by the way,
part of the deal is we're gonna allow seventeen members
of we give Ovidia Guzman's family and give them asylum
in the US.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Well, that's another thing too, and that's that's all true,
and that's this is the same administration that is literally
deporting anyone and anybody just it's this hypocrisy.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
That's more my no, and I and I think that's
a that's it, and that's kind of something because when
when Quaquing Guzman, the son of a chapel turned in
Mayo Zambada, you know what the Biden administration did, Hey, thanks,
now you're indicted and you're gonna spend the rest of
your life in prison. That's what they did with on
Quaquing Guzman. They didn't give a ple deal to a
Vida Guzman. There was rumors he got a plea deal

(26:27):
into the Bid administration. That did not happen. That happened
during the Trump administration. Quaghi Guzman was put with significant indictments.
I was guaranteeing life in prison, if not the death penalty.
And Maeo Zambada, right like, there was no sympathy. There
was no oh you scratched my back outscratch yours. They
just put everybody in prison and then we saw this

(26:48):
shift with the Trump administration where they entered into this
plea deals and then the asylum for Gidea Guzman's family
members to come into the United States, which had a
lot of people scratches like, what are what what again?
Is there a long term game? Is this something where
probably the Justice Department just doesn't want to deal with
spending money in a prosecutor case. We was there and

(27:10):
not understanding that maybe they would get us. I just
I don't know. I just saw that as a very
I would agree with your you know, hypocritical take, but
a very interesting aspect that was fundamentally different, ironically from
the Biden administration, which you can make the argument much

(27:30):
more so that was much more hawkish against Mexican cartels
and so far since I mean the drone strike in
the Caribbean Sea, okay, sure, but like within the overall
constructs of Mexican cartels, I'm looking at it and saying,
you know, under the previous administration there was much more
hawkis approach, specifically demonstrated by the capture Miles on Bota.

(27:53):
Because again, it's crazy. I think if you know, people
would have seen Seal Team six as being much more.
The irony of this situation is the way that this
operation was actually executed probably caused the most amount of
damage to the Snola cartel. And the comments from the
east the prosecutor of the statistic to New York I
do believe has some validity because we're seeing the Stonola

(28:14):
cartel completely fractured, and as you alluded to, violence is
going up because of it, and I think those Chapito's
days are numbered. And even with the alliance with the
Holscin New Generation cartel, which we talked about in your
previous episode, hasn't necessarily stopped the bleeding within those Tapito's.
It really hasn't.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Yeah, I mean again, people always say like why, and
I know you post them, like why do you post
some of these videos that they put out, because I
think what you're learning is you're you're hearing more about
what's going on on the ground, right Like there was
a video that came out recently of you know, a
guy who was you know, a cho Pito's and they
talk about how, you know, we basically run northern Kualia.

(28:51):
Can now you know, this is our area and this
is the Mato group who, as you alluded to are
not They're not really involved in Kali. They're more of
Sonora in the northern areas. So yeah, it's interesting to
think about that. Yeah, these new super cartoons. But what
I want to talk to you about more is just
kind of the proliferation of how.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Far did you just jumping on one quick point? Sure,
here here's an interesting aspect what the Maito Flacos are
focusing on. They're focusing on by the Raguato, which is
the birthplace of al Chapel.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Sure, they want to seize by the Raguato completely. And
and what we're seeing I think the Maito Flaco's ultimate
goal is to erase any historical context semblance whatever of
of you know of the Chapel family. They want to
get rid of the Guzman family and and I think

(29:41):
that's one of the main reasons. Right now what we're
seeing is Malito Flacos pressing an offensive by the Raguato,
who right now is under the control of an Alguano,
which is a Chapel's brother, the uncles of those Tapitos,
who has actually been kind of neutral in this war
and hasn't really got involved. The Malito Flaco says, we
don't care. And I think it falls into that construct
that the Manito Francos want to completely remove the Guzman

(30:04):
family from the cartel landscape into the law.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Well, I guess my question is, and what's fascinating about
that family is you have kind of a war inside
that group as well. Right with Gooseman's right, you have
two brothers who are very elusive. They're fighting, you know,
they're taking the war too, they're being beaten, they're they're
creating alliances. And then you have two other brothers who,

(30:29):
for all intentsive purposes I don't like to use this word,
but the cooperators, right, they've decided to quit and they're
now guests of the government. They'll, like I said, live
somewhere in America someday. It's kind of a wild interest
inference as far as well.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Let me tell you one thing. So they leader of
knows Tapito's us the four brothers, right, is the undisputed leader?

Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (30:52):
If he falls, So who's Fred is not going to
take over?

Speaker 2 (30:56):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (30:57):
Who is that coward?

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Do you think that will do?

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Do you think that's in the next year? I mean
they're gonna fall, right, I mean there's.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
I would suspect. I mean, if I was a betting man,
as you alluded to, for if you guys had that
bet in your sports area, I would bet Thatchibado would
fall within.

Speaker 2 (31:14):
A year, within a year. Wow.

Speaker 3 (31:16):
And if he falls, his who's fred? I do not
see taking over? I just I can't.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
I can't.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Maybe maybe there could be, it's just but everything we're
hearing about his he's not interested, he doesn't want it.
And so really within the Guzman family the like because
Aguano the brother of a Chapel, he's a very minor player,
extremely minor player. All he has really is by the
Aguato and that's it. Uh, the only real one left

(31:46):
is and he's really trying to keep everything alive. But
again the only reason is to your kind of your
early question before I jumped in, is he's only surviving
because of Hollisco new generation and this new construct of
kind of this quote unquote mega cartel when they're using
the name of fort or the Union Special Forces as

(32:07):
the construct of the cgn G Chapito alliance. But for
all intentsive purposes, if anything, we're just seeing those Chapito's
being absorbed by generation.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
We have question, last question on this in this family,
do you think we're just living in a new world
where in twenty twenty five, the end is not going
to prison, it's not dying. It's you know, the two
Chapito's brothers that are here currently, they'll get to keep
most of their money, their families are now safe.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Is that the win in the end.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
I mean, we see that throughout organized crime, We see
that throughout the rap world, even like it's not about
honor anymore. The whole world of you know, taking your
your punishment and going to prison. That that's a very
old way of thinking. Now it's you know, you look
at like I said, the flora As twins. You know,
they're becoming more and more out there. They probably were
able to keep a lot of their money. Is that

(33:00):
just kind of the society that we're in now where
maybe in the end those two one right.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
You know that It's just the problem is again it
goes back to I mean unless I mean it could
be these like if a it would be interesting, right
like if they if they go to the US and
all that and they release that. You know, I just
I say my earlier comment that if a cartel leader
in Mexico end up in the US. From a Cartier perspective,
might be just the death penalty, right, might as well

(33:28):
Jones strike them? How that looks afterwards? I mean most
times when we see this the US as actually they
prison time in the US and then they get deported
back to Mexico, Right, That's what happens. And when they're
back in Mexico they have no power and influence anymore. Right,
is there a scenario of video Guzman can stay in
the US?

Speaker 2 (33:48):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
I don't maybe, but I mean that would just be
I just I just don't see I think.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
They do they they do.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Essentially He's basic be credited for, you know, connecting them
to the most elusive drug traffier and powerful time.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
It could be.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
It could be, and it would be an interesting dynamic
when it happens. And if that's how they end, you know,
that's how they end. But uh, and the end of
the day, you know, the power and influence that the
Guzman family has in Sineloa, where the chapel was the
undisputed kind of even even with Myles Abada's power, right
at least face value and name recognition, it was always

(34:27):
a chapel, Right, I mean, his face was everywhere in Sineloa.
The iron of the situation is that's completely gone. And
you might even run into a scenario where now Sineloa
is the new battlefront between CG and G and Maito Flaco, right,
And and I think the the interesting thing is Maito
Flaco is punching above his weight. I mean he's really
pressing CG and G and Zakatekas for example. Right, I

(34:50):
would make the argument that that Maito flo might have
a slight upper hand in Zacatecas against against CG and G. Right,
Chiapas is another where they're fighting. You know, that's kind
of it's hard to really get much information about Chiapaz.
It's just a black hole. Maybe there's more of a stalemate.
But you know, even presson nayat Eat, which is right
there with Helliskoon, is kind of a very stronghold of

(35:11):
the Hostkno Generation cartel. The you know, and and even
we're seeing within the factions of the Cinela cartel the
vast majority of the groups that used to be loyal
to the Chapitos have now switched side to Maito, Right.
And I think that that's where the that's the problem
that is running into is that he doesn't really have
that many more fighters left under the construct of the

(35:34):
Cinela Cartel still loyal to him, and he relies on
CG and G to still have a fight. And I'm
starting to see more and more and more whereas just
CG and G in Cineloa like like actual Chapito's former
Cinela Cartel, it's a smaller and small group, and a
lot of the factions, for example, Dol Yukos, they switched

(35:56):
at a couple months ago, right, and and that was
one of the reasons why I think the align was announced,
because the Torpito's lost to Yukos and they even have
a blood relationship.

Speaker 2 (36:04):
Right.

Speaker 3 (36:05):
Iguano was neutral. He only allowed Fiji and g Into
by the Draguato because ma says, I want by the Daguato,
And I think again it goes back to because Maco says,
I mean, can you imagine like the ultimate revenge is
that Maito Flanco takes over by the Araguato.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
I mean the revenge where it would be the complete
fall of of a of a Monarco family. It's fascinating
to think about one final thing that I do want
to get to before we get to the really disturbing
report coming at Auarez, the proliferation of of of of
what Ecuador has become, right, and we saw recently over

(36:42):
the last couple of days that you know, Marco Rubio
designated Los Chrannaros and Los Lobos as ftos foreign terrorist
organizations due to their links to the Sinaloa and cartel
LESCo Noe Bahannarasion groups.

Speaker 2 (36:59):
I mean, they're obvious.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
See Ecuador's become one of the more important countries in
the world as.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Far as drug trafficking, right, it is a hub. Now.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's very interesting to see Ecuador become what it's become
because you know, when I was a kid growing up,
you know, in the two thousands, of Ecuador was just
a kind of a very like serene country, right.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
It maybe had a little bit of thing going on,
but it wasn't what it is now.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
We see that the leader of Los Scenario's a person
called Alfito, it was recently extra dotted, which you know
he'll kind of face the end of the road here
in America.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
We've also seen that you know, we you.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Know, Colombians are now training golf cartel members and things
like that. Talk a little bit about what Ecuador and
Colombia are now as far as in the global drug trade,
and there are connections to some of these big cartels.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Yeah, so I still think that within the construct of cartels, right,
the Mexican cartels are the dominant one. Right, the Mexican
cartels replaced the Colombian cartels. I would say that if
there's a scenario where the Mexican cartels kind of lose
that influence at least from like being the most powerful,
the next one I would be looking at is the Brazilians.
I really do believe Red Commando, PCC and even TCP

(38:14):
are starting to operate more. I think they're being called
Brazilian gangs, and I think we need to start changing
that terminology to cartels or drug trafficking organizations, because they're
starting to mirror a lot more how the Mexican cartels
are operating in the sense of their international reach. We're
seeing them expand not only in South America but in
Europe right and even in West Africa. And I think

(38:35):
the next groups that I would be looking for in
the presence in the United States would be these Brazilian TCOs.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
And yeah, what you're referring to there are these groups
that that really kind of started in the Brazilian prison system,
in groups like PCC and the Red Command. You're saying
that you think someday they'll take this place of like
Sinaloa cartel groups like that.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
If there's a scenario where just as the Colombian cartels
weakened and influence and power, if we see that happen
in Mexico, I think those two groups will come in
and replace them. I do, right from you know, Vexican
cartels are always going to exist, just like in Colombia.
But obviously the Colombians aren't really well known now to
be the dominant player in this kind of construct of cartels.

(39:24):
I think the ones that are primed to kind of replace,
at least from an international reach, are Brazilians. I mean,
we are seeing them expand now again. Caliskan new generation
in Cinela cartel are still the two largest even with
the splits within the Cinela cartel, they're still the largest
cartels with most international reach. You know, recently, even this week,

(39:44):
to Cinela cartel members were detained in Poland for trying
to set up a NAR collab in Poland, right, and
that's you know something that we're seeing in Europe is
not solely. We're still see the transatlantic drug trade either
maritime or through West Africa up through Northern Africa. Then
two year Europe we're also now seeing for the last
couple of years is new focus on establishing actual narco
labs in Europe for the production and distribution of drugs

(40:07):
across the European Union. And so we saw this in
a lot cartel, you know, that kind of happened. But
going back to your question, you know, we're looking at Ecuador. Ecuador.
The reason why it's so influential is because of the Pacific,
because of their coast and the Pacific right, and that
that maritime route and the access to the Pacific, and
that's where we see those tornados and those lobos really

(40:28):
battle for control because of it that they're like the
transshipment route for drugs and where Colombia plays the roles
are the manufacturers, right, Colombia will always be the manufacturer,
and then you can look at Maru and Bolivia specifically,
but Colombia would always be number one. Ecuador is that
kind of that transshipment area, and that's why we see
a lot of fighting and a lot of the violence
in Ecuador, you know it is internal, but you can

(40:48):
you it's it's also in another way, you can analyze
the Mexico cartel violence being exported into Ecuador in a way.
You can even make the argument that in a smaller
sense because again Ecuador there's a lot of internal dynamic
but in a smaller sense, Ecuador is a smaller proxy
war between Mexican cartel Specifical Hustcan New Generation and now

(41:09):
Mao Flaccoreli within the Cinealoa cartel. The irony of the
situation is actually when you look at Colombia, we actually
see the other thing with the Historically, for the most part,
in Colombia, both calliscinw Generation cartel and the Sinela cartel
had this understanding is let's not export our violence here
because this is where the drugs are made. We don't
want our violence to be exported here. And a lot

(41:30):
of the violence that we see in Columbia is more
between these internal groups fighting for control of the distribution
and production from Colombia, specifically for our dissidant groups Candel, Golfo,
e Land, some of these former paramilitary groups. That's where
we see a lot of the violence in Columbia is
more internal for that, manufacturing and distribution outside of Columbia

(41:53):
or even into Venezuela. That's where we see the violence,
but not necessarily exported from Mexico, unlike Ecuador.

Speaker 1 (42:00):
So many there are so many different levels of the
global drug production system, right you talk about kind of
the you know, and we're talking about just let's say
one drug in particular, so like cocaine, right, it starts
in Columbia, and there's so many just just different levels.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
But you know, there are also all these other drugs
that you have. Let me ask you one real quick thing.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
What's fascinating is recently in Philadelphia, which I'm very familiar with,
I did a story on one of the corners in Philadelphia,
Fifth and Westmoreland. It's very well known throughout city. It's
probably the most well run drug block in the city.
You know, these are people making you know, tons of
money each year. They've ran it for thirty years. It
was recently taken down that the FEDS came in and

(42:42):
took it down and all the leaders are arrested. Puerto Rico,
all sorts of areas, and what the biggest question I
had on the video is why don't Why weren't they
selling fent andyl And this is a corner that never
sold fen They just sold coke weed crack, that was it.
And are you beginning to see kind of some of
the production of fananoyla and groups are they starting to

(43:06):
say maybe we should stay away from this?

Speaker 2 (43:08):
What are you saying with fans?

Speaker 3 (43:10):
You know, I don't, I don't necessarily would say. So
this goes back to my earlier point about the Cinelague
cartel civil war and why maybe was the interest of
the US, specifically the Bide administration for the civil war
to happen a lot So obviously a lot of the
precursors are done in you know, are are made in China.

(43:30):
Actually recently also we saw three hundred tons of yeah
mesfin precursor season the Port of Houston that originated from
uh China. It was seasoned the Port of Houston with
the final destination.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Just a crazy amount of yeah and it was going for.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
The Sinola cartel. That's what the the end, you know,
kind of what they said the Justice Department released. My
understanding is that my suspicion is that was going to
the matol Flakos right, because the Champitos I don't see it,
but I think it goes back to the issue that
of the Cinela cartel. So why, for example, are we
seeing because cocaine, as you alluded to, Jeff, has exploded
in distribution and project. I mean, it is insane, the

(44:06):
amount of cocaine that is being sent, it's ridiculous. But
why are we seeing a drop in fetanyl specifically seizures
across the border. And and the only logical thing that
makes sense to me is the CineAlta cartel civil war,
specifically those Tapitos. I mean again, Vado was a huge
pusher feednyl. There's a reason why almost all the sanctions,

(44:27):
not only under the Bidend ministries, but even the Trumpe
administration has focused a lot on those chapitos. And it's
because of the role that Chapito's played in fetannel push
and production into the United States, and that's why they've
been targeted. And obviously, look, we've you know, maybe from
the Canadian aspect of the US inside of the US,
the drug labs inside of the United States and Canada,
but that's never going to replace Mexico. It's just never

(44:50):
going to replace it. And I think the civil war
has really hurt a lot of the fetanyl production, and
that's why a lot of countries Now you can also
make the argument that's probably just because political sensitivity of
it and also just because you know, a very large
spirit of options. But you know, at the end of
the day, you know, if cocaine is also exploding, look

(45:12):
at it from an economy of scale. That's that's also
a reason it makes more and more sense from a
business perspective. And I mean twenty twenty four and twenty
twenty five, the amount of cocaine seizures is astronomical. Yeah,
it's ridiculous, and so clearly there's a huge push. And
you know, we were talking about Ecuador earlier, and you

(45:34):
know this is something un I've talked. I mean, the
al Bagi mafia's presence in Ecuador, right, so, and so.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
I've seen a lot of you see a lot of
members of the Camorra, which is out of Naples in Italy,
a lot of connections down there.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, you're right, it's they're everywhere.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
And then that's the thing, and I think I think
the drug maybe if you're analyzing from a drug market perspective.
I think the main all the groups in Mexico did
fat and all and they're still doing futinel. I think
the main one that was doing it more so than others,
like the first of an equals, if we might say,
was let's shot Pitos, and they've just taken a beating
because of the Civil War, and I think that's really

(46:13):
hampered their ability to do it. So it would be
interesting to see if we start seeing other groups that
kind of pick that up. But again, you have to
be very cautious when you're analyzing Mexican cartels. So for example,
like the perfect example would be the Hollist New Generation
cartel because if you look at a map of like
Mexican cartels and the territories that control technically on paper,

(46:37):
Holisican Generation Cartels doesn't control any border areas they don't
like on paper. But that's the brilliance of Hellisk New Generation,
either through alliance, franchise or fronts, they're still able to
push the most amount of drugs into the United States
even though on paper they don't control it. And I
think that's the scenario when you're analyzing Mexican it's kind

(47:00):
of hard to really analyze it extensively, and I think
that's the issue. And I think one of the things
we're saying again is a lot of this maritime focus
from cocaine into the United States and even into Europe,
right and look shout out to where shoutouts given. You know,
Europe has really amped up a lot of their anti
drug operations. I would even say the French have been

(47:24):
doing an excellent job of seizing a lot of this
in the Caribbean. I mean, I think the largest drug
seizure in the Caribbean Sea came from the French Navy
where they seized over nine tons of cocaine, which, ironically,
their suspicion, this was back in January twenty twenty five,
shortly after that massive drug bust, we saw violence explode
in the specific border area of Columbia with Venezuela or

(47:45):
near that, and their was suspicion it was because of
this drug bust, because of the loss of economic revenue
from it, that caused violence to explode. But again, I
think to your point, you might be seeing a lot
of these groups saying it might be too ski to fetanyl.
Obviously fetanyl is still a huge push, or they're just

(48:07):
finding better ways of doing is and and that seizure
three hundred tons of metaphine precursors from the Port of
Houston was very interesting. And is that a way they're
trying to operate, like send it first to the US
before we send it to Mexico because that will raise
this picion. We don't really know because there's a lack
of information. But also again a lot of these groups
might you know, then you really need very well deep

(48:31):
seated connections with Chinese organized crime and Chinese businesses for fetanyl,
right you just that's really how it happens. And so
I think that's also goes back to there's only certain
amount of organizations that probably have that connection. Where cocaine
is such widely produced that it's a lot easier to
tap into that market unlike fetanyl.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
And it's also generally not going to kill your customer base. Correct,
it's helpful because if you don't have customers to sell to, uh,
you can't sell to them.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
We had about ten minutes. I want to get to
a story that that's really disturbing.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
But again, when you're dealing with drug cartels, I don't
think there's really ever a low I mean that they
always seem to go lower than low. And I know
you worked on this. Katerina Sulzic worked on this. You
know she's a great journalist to some others as well. Recently,
she tweeted and posted a video stating that I've uncovered
exclusive information that Cartel Lisa and Evan Racione is abducting

(49:33):
young vulnerable women in Warez, which telling what doesn't know
is right across the border in Mexico from from Texas.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
They're abducting vulnerable women, generally young, and.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Forcing them in to quote crude c sections, either letting
them die in the process or killing them, taking their
newborns across the border with falsified documents and selling them
to buyers.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Now.

Speaker 1 (49:58):
The first public case emmerger urged in late July when
Chihuahua prosecutors identified twenty year old Leslie Gordinas Carrillo of Leone,
missing since July seventeen. She was from pregnant, but her
manes were discovered in a home, but the baby was
not there. Investigators say some buyers know where these babies

(50:19):
are coming from, why others are just unaware because of
the forged birth certificates, health threats and adoption files the
infants of pure legitimate so in essence, women from poor
areas of Juarez, which again, you know, femicide killing of
women has been a problem in Mexico for years. But
what you and Katerina are finding out is that drug

(50:42):
cartels are targeting women. They're hurting them badly, forcing them
to have the baby, and then just killing them, taking
the babies and trafficking them into the United States to
people that you know, their crew to adoptions.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
Basically, can these groups go any lower?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
I mean, I've seen some low end with these people,
but I mean this is about as low as low.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:08):
We got further reporting that kind of confirms this practice,
said that he he's alluding his sources say, is Laalinya,
We're fairly confident of ours with Hallstener Generation. I think
it's also important to know that both Alinya and Hallstener
Generation are known to have an alliance. But but I
think what you know, both his reporting subsequently, but first

(51:28):
Eskatadin and something that I worked on confirmed that yes,
this is a practice happening. Uh, this is something that
has been going on, and it can they go lower?
You know, I when I first got When we first
got this tip, our jaws dropped. We thought, what in
the hell are we talking about. I mean, this is
an insane story because, as you said, they they not

(51:49):
only do they kidnap the babies, but they murder the mothers,
and they do it through crude sea sections, and so
it's a horrific practice. You know, they obviously can go
any lower. And I think one of the reasons, and
I was talking to Gazadina on her Ironclad YouTube channel
Borderland Dispatches, one of the things that we're noticing is

(52:11):
because since the rival of the Trump administration, what we've
seen is obviously, you know, from last year twenty twenty four,
towards the end of the Bide administration and really specifically
during the Trumpet administration, obviously border crosses has gone down.
And what happens is I've seen from a lot of
the social media there's only very few groups human smuggling
network groups that have been able to adapt to this
and really adapt to this new construct along the border

(52:32):
and how they get migrants across, because now it's a
quality over quantity perspective, right where they use drones and
tunnels to get people across the border right. But there's
only very few organizations who were able to adapt because
during the height of the migration crisis and the human smuggling,
dozens of dozens of dozens of not hundreds of you know,
human smuggling networks or alien smuggling organizations came to fruition

(52:56):
a lot of them locally and family grouped to push migrants,
and they haven't been able to adapt. And so what
we've actually seen since border crossings really stopped is extortion
and kidnapping along Mexican border towns has exploded because now
these groups need to make money and they can't make
it necessarily with human smuggling, so they target Mexicans and
appears that this specific group found this opportunity to do

(53:18):
this right and to push migrants across such is this
Is this as simple as just.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Like they have young people just walk up to a
girl that's pregnant and just kidnap them.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
Is that that's yep, that's yep, that's that?

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Or they get and what kind of what would this
I'm not you know, what would this cause a person?
Let let's say they what does this cost I.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Mean not much from a Meccan Mexican perspective. I mean,
you get a couple. I think I think the.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
One of your baby wise like if you're a pot, I.

Speaker 3 (53:50):
Think the I would have to go back. Don't quote
me on this. I believe it was two hundred and
fifty thousand. I don't know if I would have to
go back to my notes to kind of thing. I
think it was two hundred and fifty thousand. Besos was
was what was what the babies were being sold for?

Speaker 2 (54:10):
And again you you also stated that some people don't know.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
I think we're that's something we're looking into necessarily, you know,
that's something that is actively because you know, one of
the things when the original story kind of came from
it was kind of this idea of this gap in
the US side. We didn't know about the practice in
Cide of Mexico and what was going on. It was
kind of this gap in the and the US side.
I think now based on all the reporting is going on,
is that this is this is falling within the adoption right,

(54:39):
that this is how it's doing. These are fraudulent adoptions,
and it might be a scenario where no effectively the
people who were actively purchasing this thing the babies were
aware of where this was coming from.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Well, and your average adoption for yeast is.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
You know, astronomically expensive, so there's a demand demand and
they saw the demand and thing, Look, these are organizations
that are willing to go to extremely to make money,
both legal or legal means, and this is just this
is just the bottom of the bottom I think of
just what they're capable of doing. And this case, again
shout out to Gadarina. She's done amazing work. We coued.

(55:18):
We're continuing to work on this, working on angles, furthering
this reporting. But the practice is real. I will say
that this is something that there has been an indictment
already against a key figure of this. Her name was
La Diabla Chihuaba. Prosecutors have already opened an indictment against
her for this practice. So we're already seeing arrests occur
in through the Huas and Chihuahua in general because of this,

(55:40):
and Chihua is the States, and so this is something
and we're expecting more indictments and arrests are going to
happen inside of Chihuaba, and we're expecting even some to happen,
maybe even possibly in the United States because of this practice.
So you know, this is an active uh AN investigation.
More is going to come to light, and you know, unfortunate.
I don't believe it's getting as much attentions as it should.

(56:03):
But I think once more and more information comes out,
this is going to be a national story because it
highlights the reason why this happens, because there's a demand
in the US for these babies.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Well, and that's on and that's what's what's interesting about
all of the things we talk about.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
And I'll end it with this, and I've told you
this before.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
It does not matter what you do. If you do
not address the need for something, nothing will change. All
of you people to talk about we're gonna go after
the cartels. Okay, true, but do you realize someone's gonna
come in and fill the need.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
It's supplying demand.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
And you're right, these groups are businesses in the end,
and they just realize that it's this flying demand thing.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
I remember, I would say, could I end if you
want to understand Mexican cartels For all the listeners, who
here's the I think for me, this is kind of
like the way I explain it. Imagine Amazon and blackwater
combined into one.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, right, that's great. It's a great point.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
And it also is just simply I talked to a
drug dealer and he told me I just buy for
dollard sell for two. That's really all it is. I'm
a supplying demand business.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
That's it. People have a need. I feel the need.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
It's real simple. I'm a pharmacist, he calls himself. I
don't know if that I believe, but again, it's it's
it's it's a supplying to man thing. Either way, anytime
you come on Stefano, it's always fascinating. I always like
to chat about what's going on in the world or
organized crime. It's always an evil and to prave world.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
But that's what it is. These are evil and to
pray people and they do what they have to do
to protect business interests.

Speaker 1 (57:32):
Make sure everybody go gets sit rep s, I t
R e P on the app store, keep yourself updated
on what's going on in.

Speaker 2 (57:39):
The world and and and you guys do a great
job of doing that.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
You can find Stefano Rittendell on Twitter at all Source
news at all Source news always uh, very good content
you're doing Twitter space, it's all sorts of different things.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I appreciate you coming on as always my friend.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Now, thank you so much for Joff. I'm always available
for one of your episode. This a great conversations. Hopefully
we can do it soon again.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Absolutely, And as I said, I mean, there's always something
going on in the world of organized crime.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
Maybe the next time we'll talk, maybe Yvonne's finally.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
Brought down and the the name Gusman is extinguished, extinguished
from the world of organized crime.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
We'll see. But thanks for coming on, Thanks everybody for listening.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
As always, please again make sure you leave us a
rating a five star review.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Go check out our sponsor profit Exgo Battle Football.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Now.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
We'll see you all next week here on the sit Down.