August 17, 2022 • 52 mins
On Episode 71, Jeff delves into the life of Colombo heavyweight and lunatic Joel Cacace. Cacace rose through the ranks after owning a flower shop and surviving an assassination attempt. He ultimately would be involved allegedly in several high profile murders. In 1997, after an NYPD officer was killed, Waverly became someone the FBI believed ordered it. A wild story. Before we got into the bio, we went into an important message about the show! PLEASE give us a follow on socials! FOLLOW US ON YOUTUBE and please subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMYV0eyKQFhNZwLXpx7I0Ng FOLLOW US ON TWITTER: @thesitdown7 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
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Each office is independently owned and operatedCentury twenty one as a registered trademark
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a Mafia History Podcast. Here's yourhost, Jeff nat what's up everybody,
and welcome in to another edition ofA Sitdown, a Mafia History Podcast.
I'm your host, Jeff Nadu.Hope you're having a great day wherever you
are. It is another week andit's another sit down. As always,
(01:03):
Wednesdays is sit Down Day. AsI said, I hope you're having a
great week. We're getting closer andcloser to fall. Feels like these seasons
go so quick anymore. It feelslike we were just a Memorial Day now
we're already towards Labor Day. Abouttwo weeks away from Labor Day, football
be starting start to get that smelloutside fireplaces, burning leaves rustling. Halloween
(01:25):
will be here, and then Christmasand all that other stuff. The wheels
keep on turning here, as theysay, as always, make sure you
give us a follow on Twitter atThe sit Down seven. Make sure you
check us out on YouTube as well. We do some really good crime and
mob content over there as well.All you have to do is search The
sit Down a mafia history podcast,So obviously if you guys follow us on
(01:48):
Twitter, I tweeted out I believeit was on Monday that it was important
that everybody listened to the show thisweek if you're a fan of this content.
I had something that I wanted tosay and I wanted to to clear
up as we head into really thereally busy time of the year for me.
You know, when I started thisshow back in April twenty twenty one,
(02:10):
I never exactly thought it would becomewhat it's become. And what it's
become is a show that people like, people like to consume, They like
learning about really every level of theAmerican mafia we've done so many episodes.
We've done over seventy episodes in thisshow. But I have to admit,
guys, I never thought it wouldget to where it has been. You
(02:32):
know, every day I get peopletell me, Hey, I love the
show. I'm glad you're doing it. I've learned so much. I like
this. I like that it's appointmentlistening for me. It's great having these
on long road trips all that sortof thing. But the truth is,
guys, and I keep saying,the truth is, I've never taken any
time off of this show. SinceI started in April twenty twenty one,
(02:53):
I've been here pretty much every week. You know, when I had things
going on, I would always makesure we recorded episode and have it pumped
out. You know, we've beendoing this over a year strong. You
know, there's fifty two weeks.In a year. We've done about seventy
two seventy three episodes, I believe, so you know, basically we've done
(03:15):
this for seventy three straight weeks,and it's taxing. This is a show
that when I started, I wantedto make sure we right the wrongs of
a lot of things, you know, trying to clear up things, making
sure we do the research that's essentialfor making this content the best of the
best. I know, when westarted it, I knew that we weren't
(03:38):
always going to be able to tella new story. There's only so much
you can tell about, you know, John Gotti or Vincent Giganti or Alcopone.
But I truly wanted to bring youthe smaller gangsters, the interesting guys,
the earners, the killers, theguys that you know, maybe you
didn't know what's not about. Andthat takes a lot of research. It
takes a long time to make theseshows, is what they are. And
(04:00):
you know, right now, guys, as I embark on another football season,
a football season that is going toculminate into basketball, it's just so
busy for me, and I've reallytaken and decided that we're gonna take some
extended time off from the show.You know. It's really for me a
time to really kind of think reflecton what I've done. And you know,
maybe at some point we'll take thisin another direction, but for me,
(04:26):
I need a little bit of abreak from this. I have so
many things that I'm doing, youknow, in the summer. It's easy
because I don't know as much goingon, but you know, I'm taking
on a lot of responsibility. Ialso have some stuff going on in my
personal life that I have to attendto, and for me, I just
need to take some time away.I need to recalibrate. I need to
refigure out where this genre is goingto take me. And the truth is,
(04:48):
I also will say this, thisis a genre that you know,
for me, has really become monotonest. You know, I've talked about so
much mafia stuff that you know,it's become almost melted together in a way.
And I think for me, ifif I do continue this, at
some point, it is going tobe something that's a little bit more embarked
on as far as you know,I thought last week's show, you know,
(05:09):
taking it in the direction of,you know, just more than just
mobsters. You know, the truecrime genre is so big, you know,
and it's almost like a mafia family. Right. There's factions, right,
There's the Brooklyn Crew, the BronxCrew, the Stotton Island Crew,
the New Jersey Crew. There's somany different subsets of true crime. You
know, you have serial killers,you have organized crime, you have gangs,
(05:30):
you have drug dealers, you havewar crimes, you have gore,
you have infamous murderer, you haveall sorts of stuff, and it's just
for me, something that I thinkthe time has come for us to take
some time away. And it's notforever. You know, it's not going
to be something that I stop andwe never come back to. If we
come back to this, you know, kind of when I recalibrate in a
(05:53):
month or two or whatever it is, you know, maybe we'll expand on
it. You know, we'll return, you know, I I probably still
will do some YouTube content. Imean maybe one video a week, you
know, on the YouTube channels.It's a little easier to put on content
because when I do a show onthis program, you know, I want
to make it, you know,in depth, you know. I mean
(06:14):
I remember when I did that CarlosMarcello show. I mean there was so
it took so long because there wasso much that went into it, you
know, when I interviewed someone,you know, I want to make sure
a lot of the time it's somethingwhen you haven't heard of or you haven't
heard much from. So what we'regoing to kind of do is we're going
to do the show as normal todaynext week, we're going to do a
show as well, and next week'sgoing to be our final episode for a
(06:35):
while, and it's going to kindof end season one of the show,
if you will, and we'll comeback maybe with season two at some point,
and you know, we just wantto recalibrate. I just kind of
kind of figure where I'm going togo with all this, because again,
like I never believed that this showwould become one it's become and it's been
very integral to my life. It'ssomething that you know, I felt is
(06:58):
truly special because you know, sportshas always coming easy for me, That's
always been kind of my thing.But I truly was able to get into
a genre that that I had apassion for, that I was interested in.
And I'll never stop being interested inthis stuff. You know. I'll
still maintain, like I said,maybe some sort of YouTube channel, and
you know, I'll try to keepit fresh. But this is a dying
genre. It's just that simple.You know, you don't have the news
(07:20):
anymore. You know, you canonly talk so much about the guys,
and we've done so many different shows, and I know there's guys maybe we
haven't gotten to and that will allowus down the road to revisit this at
some point. But it's important atsome point we revisit it, we expand
it, and we make it intomore of an ever arching true crime genre
channel. So that's kind of mymy message tonight. You know, I
(07:46):
hope people understand. Uh, youknow, it's something that I've always tried
to bring quality and put time intoit, and it's just I need a
break from it. You know,I need to focus more on my my
other stuff, you know, myother stuff that I'm doing, as I
said, some of my personal thingsthat I've going on. And it's hard
man, when you you know,you want to go to the shore and
(08:07):
you have to sit here and spendtwo three hours doing a show to make
sure it gets recorded, gets edited. You know, you're gonna make sure
all that's done, and it's it'sit's a big ever overtaking. So you
know, that's kind of my rant, guys. I hope you guys all
understand. And it's not forever.It's just gonna be for now. And
uh, you know, we stillhave the feed. You know, we're
(08:28):
always gonna have these episodes. Youcan always revisit them and listen to them.
Again or or or check out somethingyou've missed. It's not like the
show is going to completely go away. As I said, you know,
i'd urge you to go check outour YouTube channel. I'm gonna really kind
of, you know, try todo some videos on there a little bit.
And as I said, it's alittle easier on YouTube, just because
you know, I don't have toput as much time into it, and
it's truly only once a week,and I'm even cutting that down. I've
(08:50):
I've been doing two three videos aweek on YouTube. So I'm just trying
to cut down on this for rightnow, and and we'll return to it
at some point, but I needto focus more on my sports things and
some of my other pursuits. Soall right, guys. That being said,
I want to get into another biographythis week. And you know,
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I've done a lot of work recentlyon the Colombo crime family. You know,
I've looked a lot into Bill Katoloand Victor Arena, and we did
a show on Carmen Persico. Today, I'm going to do a video,
or not a video, a biographyon an individual that I think, really,
in my estimation, is really oneof the most violent disturbing individuals in
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the history of the mafia. It'spretty simple. This is a guy that
came from Brooklyn. This is aman that survived two assassination attempts. This
is a man that to this daywalks around with a pea bag attached to
his leg because he'd been hurt ina shooting. This is a guy that
allegedly ordered a hit on a NewYork City Police Department officer and that was
(09:56):
indeed followed through with and that individualwas killed. This is an individual that
put in motion a hit on whathe thought was a special assistant prosecutor for
the US government. It ended upnot being him, though. This is
a guy that's been involved allegedly ina lot of crimes. And this is
a man today that is right onthe street. He's eighty one years old.
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We're gonna talk today about Joe Waverleycack Caase, a guy that I
think some people know of, butI think there's a lot of people who
don't know much about him. Sohere we go Joel Joe Waverley kack Caase
on the sit Down. Joe Waverleywas born April ninth, nineteen forty one
and Joe Waverley was actually from Brooklyn. He actually grew up on a street
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called Waverley Avenue, hence his nameJoe Waverley. He was from Fort Green.
And if weirdly enough, it's funnywith Fort Green because today Fort Green
doesn't necessarily exist anymore. If youlook it up on a map, For
Green won't be there now. Ifyou know anything about Fort Green, it's
basically just south of the Brooklyn NavyYard. It's kind of in what we
(11:07):
would call today like the upper yuppiearea of Brooklyn, kind of right near
the Barclays Center. It's between theBarclays and kind of downtown Dumbo area,
right near the Navy Yard, asI said, near Williamsburg and basically to
the west of Bedstye. And todaythey actually call it like Clinton Hill downtown
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Brooklyn. It's like a bunch ofcobblestone streets and really nice, you know,
homes and things of that nature.Joe Waverley was actually from that area,
and that's how I got his nickname. His parents were actually from Pooglia,
which is in southern Italy, notfar from Naples, just north of
Calabria. Not a lot's known aboutJoe Waverley's like teenage or elementary school years.
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But there is rumor that his fatherwas associated with the mafia, but
I was on a to find anyway to basically prove that. For a
lot of years, though, JoeAvery would get directly involved with the streets,
and he would actually kind of evolveto moving towards more South Brooklyn,
Sheepshead Bay, benson Hurst, thatarea, and he'd actually get involved with
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all the typical mob brackets, gambling, loan sharking, he was hijacking cigarettes,
you know, extortion, things ofthat nature. But what Joe Averley
realized pretty early is that if hehad a legitimate income, a legitimate business,
he could fundel a lot of hismoney through that, and if he
were ever to get caught, hecould just say, well, I'm a
legit business man, I have aa business. He would own a floral
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shop, uh at the intersection ofAvenue U and East fourteenth Street down in
sheepshd Bay. And this is obviouslymuch more of mob territory, right.
This is you know Sheepshead Bay,you know, basically right near you know
benson and and and Marine Park andand and all these areas, right you
know where. You know, thisis where the Tommy Peteras came up,
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the Michael Scars, Deleonardo's, allthe great mob guys, just really close
to Gravesend actually, so he wouldhave that flower shop there and he would
actually spend most of his time there. In December of nineteen seventy six,
base at thirty five, Joe Waverleywas regularly involved with crime families, mostly
with the Colombo crime family, doinga lot of stuff earning he was an
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associate. In December of nineteen seventysix, Joe Waverley would leave his flower
shop and walk towards his car.As he was getting into his car,
he was ambushed by three individuals thatwere looking to rob him. They would
actually shoot him at one point ina chest and he'd be bleeding heavily.
Joe Waverley would end up wrestling thegun away for one of the assailants and
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killing them. The other two individualswould run away from the scene. Joe
Waverley would get into his car anddrive himself to the closest police precinct not
far away. It would end beingthe sixty first precinc on Avenue U and
he would actually drive down to thestation with the assailant that he had killed
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steal in the car with him.He was able to survive, but it
was something that he would have tomend himself back to health from. This
was a pretty lethal gunshot. Now, it didn't end up killing him,
but you know, he would kindof create his legend, if you will,
because of that. You know,it's rare that someone is able to
survive an attack like that. It'spretty brazen by these individuals. And now
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no one was ever found as tohave done that, but I would have
to think maybe they had gotten winthat Joe Waverley would leave there with some
cash and you know, they thought, hey, let's try to rob this
guy. Now, it's unclear asto when exactly Joe Waverley was made,
but according to a confidential format inthe late seventies, he would say that
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Joe Waverley was made sometime around nineteenseventy eight or nineteen seventy nine. And
if you know anything about the Colombofamily back then, one of their major
making years was in nineteen seventy eight, and a lot of people would actually
call in a question a video thatMichael Frenzies put out several years ago on
his YouTube channel, where he claimsthat he was made in nineteen seventy five,
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but that it's pretty much a foregoneconclusion that the Columbo crime Family didn't
end up making anyone until nineteen seventyeight, so it's likely that he just
got the dates crossed, but it'slikely that at that time he was made.
Joe Waverley in that sort of daterange, Joe Waverley would actually slot
right into a very legendary crew.And if you know anything about the individual
(15:41):
I'm about to talk about, youunderstand Joe Waveley would be placed into the
crew of the lethal Charles Charlie MoosePanarella. And for anyone that's not aware
of Panarella, if you were toask me who is the five most lethal
people in the history of the Mob, I would put Panerella in the top
five. He doesn't get the kindof love that like Scarpa Domeo gets,
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but Panarella, in my estimation,I would probably put him in Michael Paradiso
at the top of the two mostdangerous individuals to me as far as people
that could just crack your fucking heador would cut your head off if they
needed to. Panarella was a lethalindividual. Got to start very early,
you know, really by fourteen hehad been arrested. I mean, he
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was a lethal individual. He hada wild crew. A lot of guys
in that crew, Bill Cootolo,Joe Waverley, Jackie de Ross. He
had a lot of really you know, high end individuals that would become high
end members of the mafia in hiscrew. The problem for Charlie Moose was
in the mid eighties, he gotinto a beef with Carbine Persico, basically
(16:52):
the crew of Panarella. Some ofthe members of them basically went and complained
to Persco that he was abusive,he was taken on money from them.
He you know, was you know, kind of greedy in a way.
At that point, I think Perscalkind of realized, well, maybe this
guy's a little bit of a concern. I don't want to kill him,
so I'll just exile him and tellhim to go out to Las Vegas.
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And that's exactly what Charlie Moose did. At that point. Joe Waverley would
end up joining the crew of aguy called Joe Thomas Solo. Thomas Solo
ran a crew out of Avenue,you the area that he had his floral
shop in and Joe Averlely would slotright into that crew in the mid eighties.
Now, the good thing for JoeWaverly was he was able to really
(17:38):
intertwine himself with Carmin Junior Persco,which is a great person to know.
You know, Joe Waverley kind ofis known as he's the guy that survived
a hit. He's he's a toughmotherfucker. He can make money and if
I need him, he could takecare of business for me. In nineteen
eighty seven, as we know,Carmen Persco was in prison. We all
(18:00):
know that by the time that youknow, the eighties kicked around, Karma
spent a lot of time in prison. But in nineteen eighty four he would
be indicted on multiple racketeering counts aspart of the Colombo trial. He would
then go to trial and then ultimatelyhe would get jammed up in the commission
case as well. On June fourteenth, eighty six, Persial gets thirty nine
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years and then he gets one hundredyear sentence that runs consecutively in eighty seven.
So that's that Karen Persco is goingaway. He's never going to get
out. He's labeled as dangerous byall sorts of people. And what is
Karen Perscal want to do next?And this is the difference between Persico and
like other level headed individuals, peoplelike Sealerno and Corralo. They all said,
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all right, I'm done, I'mgoing away. That's that. I'm
not going to like take umbradge witha prosecutor and try to kill him.
Well, Carmen Persco did, andhe would basically say, look, I'm
gonna kill Natalie Rudy Giuliani, butI'm going to kill this guy. William
Aaron Wald. Aaron Wald was aJustice Department prosecutor. Now, the interesting
(19:06):
thing about William Arenwald is that heactually was not involved with Carmen Persco's case
whatsoever. In fact, had neverany dealings with the man. And it's
unclear as to why Perscal wanted tokill Aaron Wald. But he decides from
prison, this fucking guy's gotta go. So he contacts case who's a loyal
and trusted guy, and says,I need you to put this in motion.
(19:30):
Here's the name. He frequents,queens Long Island City, get rid
of him. Now, obviously,most people that would say, well,
we're not hitting a fucking cop.We're not hitting a senator, We're not
hitting a prosecutor. I was likingit. Back to the wire, if
you've ever seen the wire, whenStringer Bell wants Slim Charles to kill Clay
(19:52):
Davis, and Avon comes out andbasically says, you know, you kill
somebody like that, whole fucking world'sgonna stand up and take notice. And
that's exactly what Persca did. Hebecame just not that he was ever level
headed, but he became just nuts. I mean, he wanted to kill
everybody, and you know, that'sjust kind of who Persco was. But
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the hit is put in motion,So's contacts two brothers that he knew called
Enrico and Vinnie Karini. These twoguys were mob associates. They were killers,
and they were farmed out with workand did what they had to do.
They also had a friend, aguy called Frank Smith, and these
three guys, the brothers and FrankSmith would handle hits. Now, Frank
(20:41):
Smith ultimately was a Columbo and andLukes associate, and he'll be an important
name to remember in this. Theywere tasked with it. They were given
a note that basically says erronible.Now, this hit would actually go down
on March twentieth, nineteen eighty seven, in a laundrymat called Young's in Long
(21:02):
Island City. Mister Aaronwald is spottedand he is killed inside the laundrymat shop
multiple times. Facebook is building toolsto enhance safety and security. Over forty
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(21:25):
com Forward slash Action. So that'sthat the mob had killed a specially US
prosecutor, the first of its kindto ever really happen. The problem was
it was the wrong William Aaron Wald. In fact, it wasn't William Arenwald.
It was actually his father, GeorgeAaronwald. George Aaronwald, who obviously
(21:48):
resembled his own son, was basicallystalked and a blunder would ensue, and
that was that. No, Obviously, the case is absolutely furious. Persiko
kind of divulged this information to Underling, So I don't know if he's too
worried, but kack Case is obviouslyvery upset because he tasked these three idiots
(22:14):
with killing the guy and they killedtheir own person. Now, remember this
is the important thing to remember aboutall this. When Karini and his brother
were given this job, they werebasically just giving a piece of paper that
said Aaron Wold on it. SoI guess they looked it up. They
probably looked similar. They just thoughtit was the same guy. And that
was that. Now, Ka Caserealized that if he was going to not
(22:40):
spend the rest of his life inprison, he was gonna have to take
out some people to further himself fromthis from this killing. So in June
of nineteen eighty seven, he doesn'twait long. Enrico and Vinnie Karini were
killed. They were found dead intheir cars in Brooklyn. Now, also,
what Case does is he says,Okay, I believe obviously here Frank
(23:04):
Smith was just kind of involved.He wasn't the guy that ultimately killed him.
So maybe I could reason with thisguy. So he goes and says
to Frank Smith, Look, ifyou you know, do you understand what
happened here? You're not going totake any revenge on me for killing your
friends, are you with me?Blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not
gonna have any problems here and again. Frank Smith had connections to the lou
(23:26):
Casey crime family, so he wasable to kind of smooth some things over.
Nope, I'm with you, blahblah blah blah blah. Now Frank
Smith down the road would actually cooperate. He said that he was blown away
that he wasn't killed that day byJoe Waverley, because it could have been
very easy to kill Joe Waverley,for him to kill him, but he
(23:47):
didn't ultimately do it. But FrankSmith would be a problem down the road.
Now, obviously we say rest inpeace of George Arnold. He's just
another one of the innocent people killedby a murder cycle pass. William Aaron
Wald would actually survive, and hewould actually last longer than Carmen Persico.
(24:07):
He would actually die on October twentyninth, twenty twenty and as we said,
mayhe and both his father rest inpeace. Now for Joe Waverley,
he wouldn't stop completely with the EddieKarni stuff. It was actually alleged after
Enrico Coreni was killed, Joe Waverleyactually started shacking up with a woman called
(24:30):
Kim Kenna, a bucks and blondewho actually had been the former wife of
Eddie Karni. By this point,Joe Waverley had moved to an area of
Long Island called Deer Park. DeerPark, Long Island. And the thing
about Deer Park is it is oneof those kind of trendy suburbs right a
(24:52):
place that and everybody wants to live. You know, it's pretty pretty far
out past Farmingdale. I'm not toofar away from Patroll, but it's still
somewhat close to the city and he'sable to kind of rest his feet up
and you know, hang out.Now. During the nineteen nineties, as
we know, the Columbo War wouldstart again, get another Columbia War,
(25:12):
and weirdly enough, Joe Waverley wouldactually shift his agreements. He would actually
side with Victor Raina during the warand he would kind of do what the
Columbus did, shoot each other.At one point in nineteen ninety one,
one of the high value targets onthe side of PERSCO was Greg de Grimmy
per Scarpa. Waverley would actually stalkhim to an area of Brooklyn where he
(25:37):
would come up on his car andshoot him multiple times. The problem was
his gun has fired and he wasn'table to kill Greg Scarpa. Now,
as we know with the mob,you shoot at somebody, they're going to
come back at you. In Februaryof nineteen ninety two, Joe Waverley was
seen in the area of Brooklyn ata dry cleaner shop. As he walked
out of the dry cleaner, multipleindividuals ran up to him and basically trying
(26:00):
to shoot him multiple times, includingGreg Scarpa, who at one point it
was the mac ten he was firing, would actually miss fire and jam.
It was alleged that Joe Waverley wasshot at fourteen different times and multiple bullets
would hit him. In fact,one would actually hit him in the testicles
(26:21):
and he would actually lose a testicleand as I said to this day,
still has to walk with some sortof assistance to help him go to the
bathroom. Now, for Joe Waverley, he would have many beasts of Greg
Scarper. Greg Scarper was a highvalue target. Bill Kotola wanted him dead.
The Arena side wanted Greg Scarpa dead. Now, some of it has
(26:42):
to do with there is belief thatat one point Joe Waverley put on the
street that Greg Scarpa was a rat. Now, Greg Scarpa obviously was a
rat and said, very good ratdetection, if only the family would have
listened to him. Once the Columbowere kind of fades, and we talked
(27:02):
about this a little bit during themush Russo show. Once the Areno Persco
war ends, vic Arena goes tojail, Persco's locked up little alley boy
Persco, Carmin's son would take overfor a little bit. He would then
go to jail and Carmin's cousin,mush Russo, would take over, and
he would really take the family throughsome calm waters. And this is where
(27:25):
Joe Waverley starts to become pretty integralto the family. You have the little
alley boy, mush Russo takes over, you have guys like Tommy Jelly,
Joe Waverley, Bill Kotolo. Fora period of time up until the early
two thousands, this is where somecalming waters come over the Colombo crime.
The problem is, as we know, that doesn't last forever. Now,
(27:48):
for Waverley, he would ultimately becomeConsulieri in the mid nineties. There was
a point where he would flirt withbeing underboss. He was at one point
Street boss for the family. Weirdlyenough, Bo Waverley was never a Copper
regime. He actually went from soldierright to the upper echelons, which isn't
normal. Usually generally you get yourown crew or whatever. But Joe Waverley
(28:11):
did it in a little bit differentway, which is interesting. As I
said earlier, Joe Waverley would ultimatelyGopez dating Kim Kenna and actually marry her.
They would be married in the midnineties, but by nineteen ninety six
Kim Kennan and Joe Waverley decided thatmarriage was not for them, and Kenna
(28:33):
would file for divorce. By nineteenninety seven Kim Kenna, who, weirdly
enough guys Waverley was actually her thirdhusband. All three of her husbands had
been MOB connected, two had died, and one was Joe Waverley, so
three in all. Maybe it's timeto start looking elsewhere. Maybe you want
(28:55):
to date a businessman, or apolice officer, or a mechanic or something.
And that's exactly what she did.Kim Kenna realized that she was getting
older, she probably to mature alittle bit. Obviously, you've had many
failed marriages and needle wise up,so she starts dating a man called Ralph
Doles. Doles was a housing authoritypolice officer for the New York Police Department
(29:17):
and from all encompassed, from allcompass looks, he was a pretty great
individual, he said, to bea great cop. He was always very
much someone that enjoyed, you know, kind of trying to help kids in
the neighborhood and really just kind ofbe a great cop. And at one
point Kim Kenna would say about herhusband, it's not easy being me.
(29:44):
My life will never be quality anymore. And this has to do with the
fact that, like her other husbands, she would ultimately lose her man,
Ralph Doles. It was alleged thatat one point the case became enraged that
his ex wife don't want to bewith him and that she wanted to be
with a cop. And it didn'thelp that Ralph Doles was not Italian.
(30:06):
He was what case called case calledquote a Mexican, which you'd have to
think was a little racial in away. Joe Waverley probably didn't like the
fact that his ex wife, whohe still loved and wanted to be with,
was uh, you know, awith her and b how does he
feel like he's competent enough to bewith her. So Joe Waverley does the
(30:29):
unthinkable. He decides, I'm gonnahave Doles killed. That's the way to
get Kennan back. And that didn'tmatter that Doles as a cop, Joe
Waverley had a pedigree of everyone else. He was higher up than pretty much
everyone else, so he could dictatewho gets killed and who doesn't. So
Joe Waverley goes to a guy calledTommy shots Gioelli. Joelli was a high
(30:51):
ranking member and had a mean hitcrew underneath him, a kid called Dino
Collaboro, Little Dino Saracino, JoeyCaves Compatello, Tommy McLaughlin, all sorts
of guys, guys that were willingto kill for Tommy Shotts. They had
a crew out in Long Island anddid a lot of scores and killed a
lot of people. So Case goesto Juelli and says, this fucking Mexican
(31:18):
kid at the social club needs togo. It was Ralph Doles. Now
he lied to Juellian said that hewas just some kid that fucked around at
the social club and needs to go. Obviously, if Tommy Shotts knew that
the guy was a cop, heprobably would have found a way to not
do it. Tommy Shotts goes tohis protege Dino Calabro, who had killed
(31:38):
many people by that point, andsays, I need you to hit this
guy. This is his address,this is what he looks like. He's
just some social club asshole. He'sgot to go. So on the evening
of August twenty fifth, nineteen ninetyseven, Ralph Doles finishes up a shift
(31:59):
at about eleven clock in Brooklyn.He drives home to his house. Now
at that point, Dino Collabroo andLittle Dino Saracino, who were cousins,
would basically say that they had waitedat the home for a while. They
had been looking to kill this guyfor a while. They finally got him
in August twenty fifth, nineteen ninetyseven. They're hanging outside of their car.
(32:20):
Dolez comes walking up, basically sayswhat's up, and they begin to
shoot him multiple times. And youknow Dino collabor who, as I'll say,
ended up cooperating. He would talkabout the night on the stand when
they killed Ralph Doles. Dino Collaborsaid he and little Dino followed those home
(32:45):
and the complice killed moments after theygot out out of Eddie got out of
his cutlass. He would say,Doles pulled to the right where he lives.
I put off to the left,Me and little Dino jumped out.
Dose didn't know the two approach menwere about to whack him. He said,
what's up, collabor testify. Collaborwas find with we shot him,
(33:07):
quote multiple times. Dose reportedly staggeredbackward and fell into the hood of his
car. Collaborate said, when weshot him, he fell back. I
shot him. I shot him withmy cousin, Dino. Now they would
leave the scene, go home,clean up, go to sleep. They
(33:29):
wake up the next day and findout that they killed a cop. Big
news. It's on the front pageof the paper. Everything. And they
would also say that Dino say thathe used a forty four caliber Magnum revolver.
Little Dina would use a forty fivesemi automatic. They would use baseball
(33:49):
caps, walkie talkie, they hadpolice scanners. Now Collaboro would say that
the next day, when you findout that Dose is a cop, he
got the kill order obviously from Tommyshot, but that the rest of the
request that came from Joe Waverley,he basically said, we don't kill police
officers. Then when he found out, he was livid about it, and
(34:10):
he at them point that point wouldask Tommy Shotts, quote, should we
take out Joe Waverley for this?He would say, I asked Tommy,
he screwed us, Let's kill him. Tommy Shotts would take a step back
and listen and said, let mesee. So they wanted to kill Joe
Waverley for this fuck up? Hebasically lied, and now they're on the
(34:31):
hook for a cop killed. Now, for Joe Waverley, he would just
continue business as usual and for themost part, no one ever believed that
they would find the killer of RalphDoles, especially Kim Kenna, his wife.
Now, from two thousand and oneto two thousand and three, Joe
(34:52):
Waverley would get right back to whathe does best, you know, basically,
you know, being a mobster.He was at this point a very
high up in the Colombo crime family. At one point he would become the
street boss as I said, ButJoe Waverley, it continued to be what
he did best, be a mobster. During two thousand and one, or
(35:13):
two thousand and three, the federalgovernment would allege that Joe Waverley would run
five Brooklyn based gambling sites that broughtin big money, including an underground casino
at a swanky Bergen Beach yacht clubcalled the Bergen Yacht Club. So he
was involved in some big money makingopportunities, and the Feds would find this
(35:35):
out through wiretaps basically that they placedon not only Joe Waverley's phones, but
members of his inner circle. Now, Joe Waverley would basically say on the
phone in a conversation with an associatecalled Jerry Esposito, that he ran a
game at twenty six fifty seven Eastsixty sixth Street in Mill Basin, which
(35:58):
was the Bergen Yacht Club. Hewould say, well, it's a casino.
There's roulette, blackjack, craps,everything, three nights a week,
full bar, full buffet for everything. All high class waitresses were bow ties.
Sounds pretty nice actually now. Kasaalso sat according to Gangly News,
that he had two other card gamesbelonging to another Coppa regime called Benjamin Castellaza.
(36:22):
Then when he went to prison,he took them over. One of
the card games was run out ofsixty six eight Eighteenth Avenue and Benson Hurst
by one of his associates, RobertBobby Bibbs Casa Messino, who was close
with Joe Waverley. They would alsotalk about on the phone some of the
(36:43):
crimes that they would also commit outsideof illegal gambling and other things. He
would say that Joe Kikase would orderpeople to do what they had to do
to not only collect, but nothave to pay people as well. On
May twenty, two thousand and one, individual named Carmin Badonza, who was
a member of Cocas's in her circle, would give a gambler a beating after
(37:07):
the house did not have sufficient fundsto pay off the customers winning. So
in a roundabout way, this gamblergoes in, wins some money and Badonza
this guy decides to Hey, insteadof paying him, I'm just gonna give
him a fucking beating. And ina conversation Joe Waverley would tell a crew
member called Patrick Picciorello, quote,CARMI hit a guy out there last night.
(37:30):
I think the guy won. Theydidn't have the money to pay him.
They took him outside. I knowhe cracked him a couple times the
guy ran, they chased him,and I closed up shop. So Joe
Waverley was not only killing people orderingkills, but he was also very much
involved with gambling, very much involvedwith extortion, very much involved with loan
(37:52):
sharking, and he was administering thatmembers of his crew just instead of paying
people just beat them up. Now, this goes back to the show we
did on Griselve de Blanco, andit kind of sounds like he pulled to
Grizalta Blanco where Griselda just didn't wantto pay people so she just killed them.
Now, Joe Waverley didn't have himkilled, but people in his organization
(38:13):
were also doing things. Now,this is also a very interesting story because
according to the same court papers thatall this stuff was followed in subsequently that
we'll talk about seven years earlier,in the mid to late nineties, it
was aleedgs that Joe Waverley actually representedan MC, a motorcycle gang that had
(38:34):
threatened the owners of The Vault,which was a sex club. I guess
the club failed to repay a debtthat they owed the motorcycle crew, and
Joe Waverley spoke on behalf of thebikers with the the Cavalcanti crime family had
a sit down. I guess fromwhat I understand, the sit down will
take place at a different spot,but you know, the goal was to
(38:59):
create some sort of payment schedule thatthe loan could be repaid. So it's
kind of interesting. Joe Waverley washandling all sorts of things and he had
a lot of power. In Januaryof two thousand and three, though,
the government would catch up with JoeWaveley case. In that year, he
would be indicted on not only gambling, extortion, loan sharking, and assault
(39:24):
charges, but also on several murders. Also along in that indictment were members
of his crew, including Carmine Baldanza, Bobby Bibbs, Casamassano, Jerry Esposito,
Luca Di Matteo, and other Colombocrime family members. The problem for
(39:46):
Joe Waverly was he was gonna haveto face the truth that he likely was
going to have to face some sortof murder beef, and that's what the
government tried to bring. They wouldultimately get him to pleate guilty on having
a hand in basically passing a messagethat someone needed to be killed, and
(40:07):
this had to do with the hitback on George Ernwald. You're getting rid
of some of the evidence there,and by having people killed, he would
admit to the government that he didhave a hand in someone dying, but
that he took responsibility. And whatthe government basically said was, all right,
it's two thousand and three. You'reyou know, basically how old right
(40:29):
you're You're born in nineteen forty one, you're you know, sixties. We're
gonna give you twenty years. Youknow you get out late seventies. We're
gonna try to still get you ona murder. We could still bring you
on something else. We're gonna giveyou twenty years. And Joe Waverley would
accept it. He would plead guilty, and Joe Waverley in two thousand and
four would get twenty years in fedderprison. So you figure he's going to
(40:50):
do probably sixteen ish, gets outin twenty twenty. That was kind of
the goal. Now, I thinkfor the FEDS they would say, look,
we have all sorts of ammunition onthis guy. Maybe we can get
someone to flip he's going to bebehind the wall. Let's keep working back
on some of these murders. Maybewe could put this fuck away for life.
That was the goal, because JoeWaverley deserves to die in prison.
It's pretty simple. In December oftwo thousand and eight, Joe Waverley is
(41:16):
charged with ordering the murder on RalphDoles, the police officer. But what
we would find out is that DinoCollabra would be the main conduit in the
government's bid to convict Joe Waverley.They basically were trying to prove beyond the
shadow of doubt that not only didthe mob kill Ralph Doles, but Joe
(41:40):
Waverley was the one that ordered thehit. The problem for the government and
for Dino Collaboro is that no onereally believed him. And ultimately for mister
Waverley, he would be acquitted ofthis and beat the rap on November twenty
(42:02):
six, twenty thirteen. So theFeder're probably gonna have to admit that eventually
Joe Waverley Kicks was going to getout of jail. They wanted to put
him away forever. Didn't work thoughno one believed these guys. Now the
individuals involved in this hit, mostnotably Dino Collaboro. Dina collabor is a
(42:22):
freeman that's unclear what he does now. He is in the wittest protection program.
As far as I know, littleDino Saracino got fifty years now,
whether he ever gets out, wedon't know. He does have a release
date, but who knows if he'llsurvive that long. As far as Joe
Waverley, he would move around.He spent some time in some really heavy
(42:43):
usps and things of that nature,but he would ultimately be released from the
French Federal Correctional Institution at Ashton,Kentucky in May of twenty twenty. Now,
I do want to get into afairly odd situation that would happen to
Joe Waverley Ky Case. He wouldactually get some bad news of his own,
and he would find out that intwenty fifteen, his son, Joel
(43:05):
Junior aka Jojo Ka Case would actuallydie of a sudden heart attack. This
was sad news for Joe Waverley.It was a son that, you know,
weirdly enough, didn't really follow himinto the life. At one point,
it was alleged that Joel Waverley Juniorended up having a job in the
(43:28):
union and at one point at ano show job, but he didn't necessarily
follow his father into the life,but he was able to build up a
pretty decent life for himself. Hehad a pretty nice home out in Long
Island. He had had a daughter, a girl called Dina Marie. And
I bring this up because a weirdsituation would actually develop after Jojo Junior passed.
(43:52):
According to members of the family,I guess from what I've gathered in
all of this, there it wassome sort of will allegedly set up by
Jojo Kicks and then after he died, the daughter would find out that basically
it was a fake will that hismother, who was Joe Waverley's wife,
(44:15):
basically created and forged in hopes thatshe would get a lot of the money
that her son allegedly had and basicallywill put the daughter on the street.
Now, I guess the mother,Vita Rose Kikese, who was seventy years
old, was given sole control ofher son's assets until twenty twenty eight,
(44:37):
when she will be eighty seven,and when Diana Marie will be thirty one.
According to the stake, the holdingsof the estate are worth more than
one million dollars and Dina Marie Kakase, who was Joe Waverley's grandur. She
would basically say that she's being screwedout of this and that the entire family
is out to get her and thatthey don't want her to actually get any
of the money, which is probablyfucked up because in the end, her
(45:00):
father, Jojo Junior, probably justwants his daughter to be taken care of
in the case that he died.That's why he created the will. It's
just kind of a weird story.But as far as an outcome on this,
I've really been unable to find whatactually happened here. From what I
understand, this happened in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen ish. Dina Marie is
(45:22):
obviously still several years away from beingthe age she needs to be to get
all this, but I guess we'llkind of figure that out when we get
to it. As far as JoeWaverley, he is still alive. He's
eighty one years old. The questionis what does Joe Waverly do now?
You know, we talk all thetime about what does the mob look like
(45:42):
today? Look, as we know, the Colombo crime family is in a
very precarious state. Most of theupper echelonut of his family including the underboss,
the Consolieri, high end capos includingTeddy Persico, all in jail.
(46:02):
One of the other capitals Joe amotto, he's in jail. You know.
There's a lot of people in jail, the boss, the family just
died, mush rousso little Alley Boy'snever coming home. It's possible. Now,
again, this is just an opinion. It's not what's true. It's
just my opinion. It is possiblethat if Joe Waverley is in the streets,
(46:27):
you know, maybe at some pointhe's given the boss title. He's
had it before. He's obviously old, but he's still sprite. From what
I understand, is he involved.I have no idea. I don't know
if Joe's involved. I'm not inthe mafia, as I've said, so
I don't know. But uh,it's possible for sure, because I think
in the end, the truth isabout Joe Waverley. He's a gangster.
(46:52):
But the truth also is that JoeWaverley should be in prison. He should
die in prison. He's a dangerouslunatic who not only was involved with killing
the father of a federal prosecutor,but he also, as we would believe,
ordered the death of a New YorkCity Police Department officer. Now,
(47:12):
Joe Waverley would say, well,that's not true. I was acquitted of
that case. And look, Iguess he's right in the end. But
in the end he's been very questionedon a lot of this stuff. You
know, we go back to thewife of Joe Waverley, his one time
wife, you know, Kim Kenna. You know, did she do a
great job in picking women or pickingpicking men. No, she hasn't,
(47:38):
you know. But it's weird becausewe also ask ourselves what about her.
You know, when Joe Waverley wasacquitted of killing her husband, she could
have helped. Federal prosecutors wanted KimKenna to testify, but Kenna would say
that she lawyered up and would haveinvoked the Fifth Amendment not to answer questions.
(48:01):
She had to ask yourself, ifshe loved Ralph Tholes the way she
did, why didn't she assist themin helping have the killer brought to justice.
Now, a lot of people wouldspeculate that Kim Kenna knows more about
what happened than she mentioned to theFBI or to the NYPD. One source
(48:21):
from the police depart would say,quote, she's a drama queen. She
only cares about herself. Kim Kennawould also say, quote, I'm not
going to take the stand and perjuremyself. What the hell do they want
from me? I couldn't add anythingto their case that they didn't already know
about. She would tell that tothe New York Daily News. She would
also say, quote, if theFeds had treated me like I was a
(48:43):
victim, which I was, shemight have thought differently about testifying. She
would also blast US prosecutors for tryingto show the jury notes from an interview
with an NYPD investigator the day afterRalph Tholes was killed on August twenty six,
nineteen ninety seven, in which shedenied be previously married to Kiks.
Kenna said Doles's parents were present duringthe interview and she was only trying to
(49:06):
shield them for more grief. Shewould also say, quote, who doesn't
know that I was married to Joe? So it's just kind of a sad
situation. But I guess if youasked me, something tells me that Kim
Kenna knows something here? Now?Who knows? She would also say about
when she told him she was leavinghim. She said, I told him
(49:28):
I was leaving him, and hesaid fine. I asked for nothing.
I wanted nothing. Who would thinkanything was going to happen? So,
you know, kind of a sadsituation in general. Whether we believe or
don't believe Kim Kenna, I don'tknow what Kim kenn is up to now.
She may be on her eighth husbandby this point. She has not
very good luck with what a man. I guess you have to also must
(49:50):
feel bad for because she doesn't seemlike she's completely all there. But who
knows. As I said, wedon't really know what Joe Waverley status is.
However, you know he's definitely adangerous person and society would be more
safe if he wasn't around what hedoes now. I don't know. Maybe
he's just trying to enjoy the restof his life in relative anonymity with his
(50:12):
grandkids and his family. I don'tknow, but I guess as we know,
once a gangster, always a gangster, as always. Guys, thanks
for joining me here on another weekof the sit down. I hope everyone
took what I said earlier and justkind of understand where I'm coming. From
I just need a break from allthis. I basically did a year and
(50:37):
half basically of this show, andyou know, it's time for me to
focus on some other things that arethat are just super important that I have
to attend to. So if Ido, we'll come back at some point.
We'll definitely get back into mob stuff. We'll do a lot more kind
of everarching stuff on true crime.You'll get into some other things as well.
But in the meantime, join usnext week. We have a really
(50:59):
cool so coming out. I gotsome special guests that are going to join
us next week and we'll do onefinal show for the time being on the
sit Down here, and then Iwould urge you you want to show some
love, come check out what I'mdoing in sports. I've got a lot
of cool announcements coming up, hopefullysome more shows. I know a lot
of you like that stuff. Butas I always say, go check us
(51:21):
out on YouTube as well. I'mstill gonna do some content on YouTube,
just some kind of quick ten tofifteen to twenty minute videos once a week
or so. We'll keep the mobstuff fresh and current. So I'm just
trying to cut down some of thework that I'm doing right now, so
we'll return at some point, butdo me a favorite. Join me next
week for our final episode as wego on a little hiatus. But as
always, I'm Jeff Natu. Ifyou have any questions, you have any
(51:44):
concerns, you want to send yourregards, whatever, do me a favorite.
You can send them to me.Just check us out on Twitter at
the sit Down seven. You canalso email the show if you really want
to, at the sit Down sevenseven seven at gmail dot com. Sit
Down on seven seven seven at gmaildot com. All right, everybody,
hope you enjoyed the episode this week. We'll see you next week. Here all listen
Here's a little real estate reality forme, a Century twenty one affiliated agent
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Each office is independently owned and operatedCentury twenty one as a registered trademark
owned by Century twenty one real Estate, LLC. Welcome to the sit Down
(00:43):
a Mafia History Podcast. Here's yourhost, Jeff nat what's up everybody,
and welcome in to another edition ofA Sitdown, a Mafia History Podcast.
I'm your host, Jeff Nadu.Hope you're having a great day wherever you
are. It is another week andit's another sit down. As always,
(01:03):
Wednesdays is sit Down Day. AsI said, I hope you're having a
great week. We're getting closer andcloser to fall. Feels like these seasons
go so quick anymore. It feelslike we were just a Memorial Day now
we're already towards Labor Day. Abouttwo weeks away from Labor Day, football
be starting start to get that smelloutside fireplaces, burning leaves rustling. Halloween
(01:25):
will be here, and then Christmasand all that other stuff. The wheels
keep on turning here, as theysay, as always, make sure you
give us a follow on Twitter atThe sit Down seven. Make sure you
check us out on YouTube as well. We do some really good crime and
mob content over there as well.All you have to do is search The
sit Down a mafia history podcast,So obviously if you guys follow us on
(01:48):
Twitter, I tweeted out I believeit was on Monday that it was important
that everybody listened to the show thisweek if you're a fan of this content.
I had something that I wanted tosay and I wanted to to clear
up as we head into really thereally busy time of the year for me.
You know, when I started thisshow back in April twenty twenty one,
(02:10):
I never exactly thought it would becomewhat it's become. And what it's
become is a show that people like, people like to consume, They like
learning about really every level of theAmerican mafia we've done so many episodes.
We've done over seventy episodes in thisshow. But I have to admit,
guys, I never thought it wouldget to where it has been. You
(02:32):
know, every day I get peopletell me, Hey, I love the
show. I'm glad you're doing it. I've learned so much. I like
this. I like that it's appointmentlistening for me. It's great having these
on long road trips all that sortof thing. But the truth is,
guys, and I keep saying,the truth is, I've never taken any
time off of this show. SinceI started in April twenty twenty one,
(02:53):
I've been here pretty much every week. You know, when I had things
going on, I would always makesure we recorded episode and have it pumped
out. You know, we've beendoing this over a year strong. You
know, there's fifty two weeks.In a year. We've done about seventy
two seventy three episodes, I believe, so you know, basically we've done
(03:15):
this for seventy three straight weeks,and it's taxing. This is a show
that when I started, I wantedto make sure we right the wrongs of
a lot of things, you know, trying to clear up things, making
sure we do the research that's essentialfor making this content the best of the
best. I know, when westarted it, I knew that we weren't
(03:38):
always going to be able to tella new story. There's only so much
you can tell about, you know, John Gotti or Vincent Giganti or Alcopone.
But I truly wanted to bring youthe smaller gangsters, the interesting guys,
the earners, the killers, theguys that you know, maybe you
didn't know what's not about. Andthat takes a lot of research. It
takes a long time to make theseshows, is what they are. And
(04:00):
you know, right now, guys, as I embark on another football season,
a football season that is going toculminate into basketball, it's just so
busy for me, and I've reallytaken and decided that we're gonna take some
extended time off from the show.You know. It's really for me a
time to really kind of think reflecton what I've done. And you know,
maybe at some point we'll take thisin another direction, but for me,
(04:26):
I need a little bit of abreak from this. I have so
many things that I'm doing, youknow, in the summer. It's easy
because I don't know as much goingon, but you know, I'm taking
on a lot of responsibility. Ialso have some stuff going on in my
personal life that I have to attendto, and for me, I just
need to take some time away.I need to recalibrate. I need to
refigure out where this genre is goingto take me. And the truth is,
(04:48):
I also will say this, thisis a genre that you know,
for me, has really become monotonest. You know, I've talked about so
much mafia stuff that you know,it's become almost melted together in a way.
And I think for me, ifif I do continue this, at
some point, it is going tobe something that's a little bit more embarked
on as far as you know,I thought last week's show, you know,
(05:09):
taking it in the direction of,you know, just more than just
mobsters. You know, the truecrime genre is so big, you know,
and it's almost like a mafia family. Right. There's factions, right,
There's the Brooklyn Crew, the BronxCrew, the Stotton Island Crew,
the New Jersey Crew. There's somany different subsets of true crime. You
know, you have serial killers,you have organized crime, you have gangs,
(05:30):
you have drug dealers, you havewar crimes, you have gore,
you have infamous murderer, you haveall sorts of stuff, and it's just
for me, something that I thinkthe time has come for us to take
some time away. And it's notforever. You know, it's not going
to be something that I stop andwe never come back to. If we
come back to this, you know, kind of when I recalibrate in a
(05:53):
month or two or whatever it is, you know, maybe we'll expand on
it. You know, we'll return, you know, I I probably still
will do some YouTube content. Imean maybe one video a week, you
know, on the YouTube channels.It's a little easier to put on content
because when I do a show onthis program, you know, I want
to make it, you know,in depth, you know. I mean
(06:14):
I remember when I did that CarlosMarcello show. I mean there was so
it took so long because there wasso much that went into it, you
know, when I interviewed someone,you know, I want to make sure
a lot of the time it's somethingwhen you haven't heard of or you haven't
heard much from. So what we'regoing to kind of do is we're going
to do the show as normal todaynext week, we're going to do a
show as well, and next week'sgoing to be our final episode for a
(06:35):
while, and it's going to kindof end season one of the show,
if you will, and we'll comeback maybe with season two at some point,
and you know, we just wantto recalibrate. I just kind of
kind of figure where I'm going togo with all this, because again,
like I never believed that this showwould become one it's become and it's been
very integral to my life. It'ssomething that you know, I felt is
(06:58):
truly special because you know, sportshas always coming easy for me, That's
always been kind of my thing.But I truly was able to get into
a genre that that I had apassion for, that I was interested in.
And I'll never stop being interested inthis stuff. You know. I'll
still maintain, like I said,maybe some sort of YouTube channel, and
you know, I'll try to keepit fresh. But this is a dying
genre. It's just that simple.You know, you don't have the news
(07:20):
anymore. You know, you canonly talk so much about the guys,
and we've done so many different shows, and I know there's guys maybe we
haven't gotten to and that will allowus down the road to revisit this at
some point. But it's important atsome point we revisit it, we expand
it, and we make it intomore of an ever arching true crime genre
channel. So that's kind of mymy message tonight. You know, I
(07:46):
hope people understand. Uh, youknow, it's something that I've always tried
to bring quality and put time intoit, and it's just I need a
break from it. You know,I need to focus more on my my
other stuff, you know, myother stuff that I'm doing, as I
said, some of my personal thingsthat I've going on. And it's hard
man, when you you know,you want to go to the shore and
(08:07):
you have to sit here and spendtwo three hours doing a show to make
sure it gets recorded, gets edited. You know, you're gonna make sure
all that's done, and it's it'sit's a big ever overtaking. So you
know, that's kind of my rant, guys. I hope you guys all
understand. And it's not forever.It's just gonna be for now. And
uh, you know, we stillhave the feed. You know, we're
(08:28):
always gonna have these episodes. Youcan always revisit them and listen to them.
Again or or or check out somethingyou've missed. It's not like the
show is going to completely go away. As I said, you know,
i'd urge you to go check outour YouTube channel. I'm gonna really kind
of, you know, try todo some videos on there a little bit.
And as I said, it's alittle easier on YouTube, just because
you know, I don't have toput as much time into it, and
it's truly only once a week,and I'm even cutting that down. I've
(08:50):
I've been doing two three videos aweek on YouTube. So I'm just trying
to cut down on this for rightnow, and and we'll return to it
at some point, but I needto focus more on my sports things and
some of my other pursuits. Soall right, guys. That being said,
I want to get into another biographythis week. And you know,
(09:11):
I've done a lot of work recentlyon the Colombo crime family. You know,
I've looked a lot into Bill Katoloand Victor Arena, and we did
a show on Carmen Persico. Today, I'm going to do a video,
or not a video, a biographyon an individual that I think, really,
in my estimation, is really oneof the most violent disturbing individuals in
(09:31):
the history of the mafia. It'spretty simple. This is a guy that
came from Brooklyn. This is aman that survived two assassination attempts. This
is a man that to this daywalks around with a pea bag attached to
his leg because he'd been hurt ina shooting. This is a guy that
allegedly ordered a hit on a NewYork City Police Department officer and that was
(09:56):
indeed followed through with and that individualwas killed. This is an individual that
put in motion a hit on whathe thought was a special assistant prosecutor for
the US government. It ended upnot being him, though. This is
a guy that's been involved allegedly ina lot of crimes. And this is
a man today that is right onthe street. He's eighty one years old.
(10:20):
We're gonna talk today about Joe Waverleycack Caase, a guy that I
think some people know of, butI think there's a lot of people who
don't know much about him. Sohere we go Joel Joe Waverley kack Caase
on the sit Down. Joe Waverleywas born April ninth, nineteen forty one
and Joe Waverley was actually from Brooklyn. He actually grew up on a street
(10:43):
called Waverley Avenue, hence his nameJoe Waverley. He was from Fort Green.
And if weirdly enough, it's funnywith Fort Green because today Fort Green
doesn't necessarily exist anymore. If youlook it up on a map, For
Green won't be there now. Ifyou know anything about Fort Green, it's
basically just south of the Brooklyn NavyYard. It's kind of in what we
(11:07):
would call today like the upper yuppiearea of Brooklyn, kind of right near
the Barclays Center. It's between theBarclays and kind of downtown Dumbo area,
right near the Navy Yard, asI said, near Williamsburg and basically to
the west of Bedstye. And todaythey actually call it like Clinton Hill downtown
(11:28):
Brooklyn. It's like a bunch ofcobblestone streets and really nice, you know,
homes and things of that nature.Joe Waverley was actually from that area,
and that's how I got his nickname. His parents were actually from Pooglia,
which is in southern Italy, notfar from Naples, just north of
Calabria. Not a lot's known aboutJoe Waverley's like teenage or elementary school years.
(11:54):
But there is rumor that his fatherwas associated with the mafia, but
I was on a to find anyway to basically prove that. For a
lot of years, though, JoeAvery would get directly involved with the streets,
and he would actually kind of evolveto moving towards more South Brooklyn,
Sheepshead Bay, benson Hurst, thatarea, and he'd actually get involved with
(12:16):
all the typical mob brackets, gambling, loan sharking, he was hijacking cigarettes,
you know, extortion, things ofthat nature. But what Joe Averley
realized pretty early is that if hehad a legitimate income, a legitimate business,
he could fundel a lot of hismoney through that, and if he
were ever to get caught, hecould just say, well, I'm a
legit business man, I have aa business. He would own a floral
(12:39):
shop, uh at the intersection ofAvenue U and East fourteenth Street down in
sheepshd Bay. And this is obviouslymuch more of mob territory, right.
This is you know Sheepshead Bay,you know, basically right near you know
benson and and and Marine Park andand and all these areas, right you
know where. You know, thisis where the Tommy Peteras came up,
(13:01):
the Michael Scars, Deleonardo's, allthe great mob guys, just really close
to Gravesend actually, so he wouldhave that flower shop there and he would
actually spend most of his time there. In December of nineteen seventy six,
base at thirty five, Joe Waverleywas regularly involved with crime families, mostly
with the Colombo crime family, doinga lot of stuff earning he was an
(13:24):
associate. In December of nineteen seventysix, Joe Waverley would leave his flower
shop and walk towards his car.As he was getting into his car,
he was ambushed by three individuals thatwere looking to rob him. They would
actually shoot him at one point ina chest and he'd be bleeding heavily.
Joe Waverley would end up wrestling thegun away for one of the assailants and
(13:48):
killing them. The other two individualswould run away from the scene. Joe
Waverley would get into his car anddrive himself to the closest police precinct not
far away. It would end beingthe sixty first precinc on Avenue U and
he would actually drive down to thestation with the assailant that he had killed
(14:09):
steal in the car with him.He was able to survive, but it
was something that he would have tomend himself back to health from. This
was a pretty lethal gunshot. Now, it didn't end up killing him,
but you know, he would kindof create his legend, if you will,
because of that. You know,it's rare that someone is able to
survive an attack like that. It'spretty brazen by these individuals. And now
(14:33):
no one was ever found as tohave done that, but I would have
to think maybe they had gotten winthat Joe Waverley would leave there with some
cash and you know, they thought, hey, let's try to rob this
guy. Now, it's unclear asto when exactly Joe Waverley was made,
but according to a confidential format inthe late seventies, he would say that
(14:54):
Joe Waverley was made sometime around nineteenseventy eight or nineteen seventy nine. And
if you know anything about the Colombofamily back then, one of their major
making years was in nineteen seventy eight, and a lot of people would actually
call in a question a video thatMichael Frenzies put out several years ago on
his YouTube channel, where he claimsthat he was made in nineteen seventy five,
(15:18):
but that it's pretty much a foregoneconclusion that the Columbo crime Family didn't
end up making anyone until nineteen seventyeight, so it's likely that he just
got the dates crossed, but it'slikely that at that time he was made.
Joe Waverley in that sort of daterange, Joe Waverley would actually slot
right into a very legendary crew.And if you know anything about the individual
(15:41):
I'm about to talk about, youunderstand Joe Waveley would be placed into the
crew of the lethal Charles Charlie MoosePanarella. And for anyone that's not aware
of Panarella, if you were toask me who is the five most lethal
people in the history of the Mob, I would put Panerella in the top
five. He doesn't get the kindof love that like Scarpa Domeo gets,
(16:07):
but Panarella, in my estimation,I would probably put him in Michael Paradiso
at the top of the two mostdangerous individuals to me as far as people
that could just crack your fucking heador would cut your head off if they
needed to. Panarella was a lethalindividual. Got to start very early,
you know, really by fourteen hehad been arrested. I mean, he
(16:29):
was a lethal individual. He hada wild crew. A lot of guys
in that crew, Bill Cootolo,Joe Waverley, Jackie de Ross. He
had a lot of really you know, high end individuals that would become high
end members of the mafia in hiscrew. The problem for Charlie Moose was
in the mid eighties, he gotinto a beef with Carbine Persico, basically
(16:52):
the crew of Panarella. Some ofthe members of them basically went and complained
to Persco that he was abusive,he was taken on money from them.
He you know, was you know, kind of greedy in a way.
At that point, I think Perscalkind of realized, well, maybe this
guy's a little bit of a concern. I don't want to kill him,
so I'll just exile him and tellhim to go out to Las Vegas.
(17:15):
And that's exactly what Charlie Moose did. At that point. Joe Waverley would
end up joining the crew of aguy called Joe Thomas Solo. Thomas Solo
ran a crew out of Avenue,you the area that he had his floral
shop in and Joe Averlely would slotright into that crew in the mid eighties.
Now, the good thing for JoeWaverly was he was able to really
(17:38):
intertwine himself with Carmin Junior Persco,which is a great person to know.
You know, Joe Waverley kind ofis known as he's the guy that survived
a hit. He's he's a toughmotherfucker. He can make money and if
I need him, he could takecare of business for me. In nineteen
eighty seven, as we know,Carmen Persco was in prison. We all
(18:00):
know that by the time that youknow, the eighties kicked around, Karma
spent a lot of time in prison. But in nineteen eighty four he would
be indicted on multiple racketeering counts aspart of the Colombo trial. He would
then go to trial and then ultimatelyhe would get jammed up in the commission
case as well. On June fourteenth, eighty six, Persial gets thirty nine
(18:21):
years and then he gets one hundredyear sentence that runs consecutively in eighty seven.
So that's that Karen Persco is goingaway. He's never going to get
out. He's labeled as dangerous byall sorts of people. And what is
Karen Perscal want to do next?And this is the difference between Persico and
like other level headed individuals, peoplelike Sealerno and Corralo. They all said,
(18:45):
all right, I'm done, I'mgoing away. That's that. I'm
not going to like take umbradge witha prosecutor and try to kill him.
Well, Carmen Persco did, andhe would basically say, look, I'm
gonna kill Natalie Rudy Giuliani, butI'm going to kill this guy. William
Aaron Wald. Aaron Wald was aJustice Department prosecutor. Now, the interesting
(19:06):
thing about William Arenwald is that heactually was not involved with Carmen Persco's case
whatsoever. In fact, had neverany dealings with the man. And it's
unclear as to why Perscal wanted tokill Aaron Wald. But he decides from
prison, this fucking guy's gotta go. So he contacts case who's a loyal
and trusted guy, and says,I need you to put this in motion.
(19:30):
Here's the name. He frequents,queens Long Island City, get rid
of him. Now, obviously,most people that would say, well,
we're not hitting a fucking cop.We're not hitting a senator, We're not
hitting a prosecutor. I was likingit. Back to the wire, if
you've ever seen the wire, whenStringer Bell wants Slim Charles to kill Clay
(19:52):
Davis, and Avon comes out andbasically says, you know, you kill
somebody like that, whole fucking world'sgonna stand up and take notice. And
that's exactly what Persca did. Hebecame just not that he was ever level
headed, but he became just nuts. I mean, he wanted to kill
everybody, and you know, that'sjust kind of who Persco was. But
(20:17):
the hit is put in motion,So's contacts two brothers that he knew called
Enrico and Vinnie Karini. These twoguys were mob associates. They were killers,
and they were farmed out with workand did what they had to do.
They also had a friend, aguy called Frank Smith, and these
three guys, the brothers and FrankSmith would handle hits. Now, Frank
(20:41):
Smith ultimately was a Columbo and andLukes associate, and he'll be an important
name to remember in this. Theywere tasked with it. They were given
a note that basically says erronible.Now, this hit would actually go down
on March twentieth, nineteen eighty seven, in a laundrymat called Young's in Long
(21:02):
Island City. Mister Aaronwald is spottedand he is killed inside the laundrymat shop
multiple times. Facebook is building toolsto enhance safety and security. Over forty
million people are using Facebook's privacy checkup each month. That's nearly sixty times
the population of Washington DC. Learnmore about the work ahead at Facebook dot
(21:25):
com Forward slash Action. So that'sthat the mob had killed a specially US
prosecutor, the first of its kindto ever really happen. The problem was
it was the wrong William Aaron Wald. In fact, it wasn't William Arenwald.
It was actually his father, GeorgeAaronwald. George Aaronwald, who obviously
(21:48):
resembled his own son, was basicallystalked and a blunder would ensue, and
that was that. No, Obviously, the case is absolutely furious. Persiko
kind of divulged this information to Underling, So I don't know if he's too
worried, but kack Case is obviouslyvery upset because he tasked these three idiots
(22:14):
with killing the guy and they killedtheir own person. Now, remember this
is the important thing to remember aboutall this. When Karini and his brother
were given this job, they werebasically just giving a piece of paper that
said Aaron Wold on it. SoI guess they looked it up. They
probably looked similar. They just thoughtit was the same guy. And that
was that. Now, Ka Caserealized that if he was going to not
(22:40):
spend the rest of his life inprison, he was gonna have to take
out some people to further himself fromthis from this killing. So in June
of nineteen eighty seven, he doesn'twait long. Enrico and Vinnie Karini were
killed. They were found dead intheir cars in Brooklyn. Now, also,
what Case does is he says,Okay, I believe obviously here Frank
(23:04):
Smith was just kind of involved.He wasn't the guy that ultimately killed him.
So maybe I could reason with thisguy. So he goes and says
to Frank Smith, Look, ifyou you know, do you understand what
happened here? You're not going totake any revenge on me for killing your
friends, are you with me?Blah blah blah blah blah. I'm not
gonna have any problems here and again. Frank Smith had connections to the lou
(23:26):
Casey crime family, so he wasable to kind of smooth some things over.
Nope, I'm with you, blahblah blah blah blah. Now Frank
Smith down the road would actually cooperate. He said that he was blown away
that he wasn't killed that day byJoe Waverley, because it could have been
very easy to kill Joe Waverley,for him to kill him, but he
(23:47):
didn't ultimately do it. But FrankSmith would be a problem down the road.
Now, obviously we say rest inpeace of George Arnold. He's just
another one of the innocent people killedby a murder cycle pass. William Aaron
Wald would actually survive, and hewould actually last longer than Carmen Persico.
(24:07):
He would actually die on October twentyninth, twenty twenty and as we said,
mayhe and both his father rest inpeace. Now for Joe Waverley,
he wouldn't stop completely with the EddieKarni stuff. It was actually alleged after
Enrico Coreni was killed, Joe Waverleyactually started shacking up with a woman called
(24:30):
Kim Kenna, a bucks and blondewho actually had been the former wife of
Eddie Karni. By this point,Joe Waverley had moved to an area of
Long Island called Deer Park. DeerPark, Long Island. And the thing
about Deer Park is it is oneof those kind of trendy suburbs right a
(24:52):
place that and everybody wants to live. You know, it's pretty pretty far
out past Farmingdale. I'm not toofar away from Patroll, but it's still
somewhat close to the city and he'sable to kind of rest his feet up
and you know, hang out.Now. During the nineteen nineties, as
we know, the Columbo War wouldstart again, get another Columbia War,
(25:12):
and weirdly enough, Joe Waverley wouldactually shift his agreements. He would actually
side with Victor Raina during the warand he would kind of do what the
Columbus did, shoot each other.At one point in nineteen ninety one,
one of the high value targets onthe side of PERSCO was Greg de Grimmy
per Scarpa. Waverley would actually stalkhim to an area of Brooklyn where he
(25:37):
would come up on his car andshoot him multiple times. The problem was
his gun has fired and he wasn'table to kill Greg Scarpa. Now,
as we know with the mob,you shoot at somebody, they're going to
come back at you. In Februaryof nineteen ninety two, Joe Waverley was
seen in the area of Brooklyn ata dry cleaner shop. As he walked
out of the dry cleaner, multipleindividuals ran up to him and basically trying
(26:00):
to shoot him multiple times, includingGreg Scarpa, who at one point it
was the mac ten he was firing, would actually miss fire and jam.
It was alleged that Joe Waverley wasshot at fourteen different times and multiple bullets
would hit him. In fact,one would actually hit him in the testicles
(26:21):
and he would actually lose a testicleand as I said to this day,
still has to walk with some sortof assistance to help him go to the
bathroom. Now, for Joe Waverley, he would have many beasts of Greg
Scarper. Greg Scarper was a highvalue target. Bill Kotola wanted him dead.
The Arena side wanted Greg Scarpa dead. Now, some of it has
(26:42):
to do with there is belief thatat one point Joe Waverley put on the
street that Greg Scarpa was a rat. Now, Greg Scarpa obviously was a
rat and said, very good ratdetection, if only the family would have
listened to him. Once the Columbowere kind of fades, and we talked
(27:02):
about this a little bit during themush Russo show. Once the Areno Persco
war ends, vic Arena goes tojail, Persco's locked up little alley boy
Persco, Carmin's son would take overfor a little bit. He would then
go to jail and Carmin's cousin,mush Russo, would take over, and
he would really take the family throughsome calm waters. And this is where
(27:25):
Joe Waverley starts to become pretty integralto the family. You have the little
alley boy, mush Russo takes over, you have guys like Tommy Jelly,
Joe Waverley, Bill Kotolo. Fora period of time up until the early
two thousands, this is where somecalming waters come over the Colombo crime.
The problem is, as we know, that doesn't last forever. Now,
(27:48):
for Waverley, he would ultimately becomeConsulieri in the mid nineties. There was
a point where he would flirt withbeing underboss. He was at one point
Street boss for the family. Weirdlyenough, Bo Waverley was never a Copper
regime. He actually went from soldierright to the upper echelons, which isn't
normal. Usually generally you get yourown crew or whatever. But Joe Waverley
(28:11):
did it in a little bit differentway, which is interesting. As I
said earlier, Joe Waverley would ultimatelyGopez dating Kim Kenna and actually marry her.
They would be married in the midnineties, but by nineteen ninety six
Kim Kennan and Joe Waverley decided thatmarriage was not for them, and Kenna
(28:33):
would file for divorce. By nineteenninety seven Kim Kenna, who, weirdly
enough guys Waverley was actually her thirdhusband. All three of her husbands had
been MOB connected, two had died, and one was Joe Waverley, so
three in all. Maybe it's timeto start looking elsewhere. Maybe you want
(28:55):
to date a businessman, or apolice officer, or a mechanic or something.
And that's exactly what she did.Kim Kenna realized that she was getting
older, she probably to mature alittle bit. Obviously, you've had many
failed marriages and needle wise up,so she starts dating a man called Ralph
Doles. Doles was a housing authoritypolice officer for the New York Police Department
(29:17):
and from all encompassed, from allcompass looks, he was a pretty great
individual, he said, to bea great cop. He was always very
much someone that enjoyed, you know, kind of trying to help kids in
the neighborhood and really just kind ofbe a great cop. And at one
point Kim Kenna would say about herhusband, it's not easy being me.
(29:44):
My life will never be quality anymore. And this has to do with the
fact that, like her other husbands, she would ultimately lose her man,
Ralph Doles. It was alleged thatat one point the case became enraged that
his ex wife don't want to bewith him and that she wanted to be
with a cop. And it didn'thelp that Ralph Doles was not Italian.
(30:06):
He was what case called case calledquote a Mexican, which you'd have to
think was a little racial in away. Joe Waverley probably didn't like the
fact that his ex wife, whohe still loved and wanted to be with,
was uh, you know, awith her and b how does he
feel like he's competent enough to bewith her. So Joe Waverley does the
(30:29):
unthinkable. He decides, I'm gonnahave Doles killed. That's the way to
get Kennan back. And that didn'tmatter that Doles as a cop, Joe
Waverley had a pedigree of everyone else. He was higher up than pretty much
everyone else, so he could dictatewho gets killed and who doesn't. So
Joe Waverley goes to a guy calledTommy shots Gioelli. Joelli was a high
(30:51):
ranking member and had a mean hitcrew underneath him, a kid called Dino
Collaboro, Little Dino Saracino, JoeyCaves Compatello, Tommy McLaughlin, all sorts
of guys, guys that were willingto kill for Tommy Shotts. They had
a crew out in Long Island anddid a lot of scores and killed a
lot of people. So Case goesto Juelli and says, this fucking Mexican
(31:18):
kid at the social club needs togo. It was Ralph Doles. Now
he lied to Juellian said that hewas just some kid that fucked around at
the social club and needs to go. Obviously, if Tommy Shotts knew that
the guy was a cop, heprobably would have found a way to not
do it. Tommy Shotts goes tohis protege Dino Calabro, who had killed
(31:38):
many people by that point, andsays, I need you to hit this
guy. This is his address,this is what he looks like. He's
just some social club asshole. He'sgot to go. So on the evening
of August twenty fifth, nineteen ninetyseven, Ralph Doles finishes up a shift
(31:59):
at about eleven clock in Brooklyn.He drives home to his house. Now
at that point, Dino Collabroo andLittle Dino Saracino, who were cousins,
would basically say that they had waitedat the home for a while. They
had been looking to kill this guyfor a while. They finally got him
in August twenty fifth, nineteen ninetyseven. They're hanging outside of their car.
(32:20):
Dolez comes walking up, basically sayswhat's up, and they begin to
shoot him multiple times. And youknow Dino collabor who, as I'll say,
ended up cooperating. He would talkabout the night on the stand when
they killed Ralph Doles. Dino Collaborsaid he and little Dino followed those home
(32:45):
and the complice killed moments after theygot out out of Eddie got out of
his cutlass. He would say,Doles pulled to the right where he lives.
I put off to the left,Me and little Dino jumped out.
Dose didn't know the two approach menwere about to whack him. He said,
what's up, collabor testify. Collaborwas find with we shot him,
(33:07):
quote multiple times. Dose reportedly staggeredbackward and fell into the hood of his
car. Collaborate said, when weshot him, he fell back. I
shot him. I shot him withmy cousin, Dino. Now they would
leave the scene, go home,clean up, go to sleep. They
(33:29):
wake up the next day and findout that they killed a cop. Big
news. It's on the front pageof the paper. Everything. And they
would also say that Dino say thathe used a forty four caliber Magnum revolver.
Little Dina would use a forty fivesemi automatic. They would use baseball
(33:49):
caps, walkie talkie, they hadpolice scanners. Now Collaboro would say that
the next day, when you findout that Dose is a cop, he
got the kill order obviously from Tommyshot, but that the rest of the
request that came from Joe Waverley,he basically said, we don't kill police
officers. Then when he found out, he was livid about it, and
(34:10):
he at them point that point wouldask Tommy Shotts, quote, should we
take out Joe Waverley for this?He would say, I asked Tommy,
he screwed us, Let's kill him. Tommy Shotts would take a step back
and listen and said, let mesee. So they wanted to kill Joe
Waverley for this fuck up? Hebasically lied, and now they're on the
(34:31):
hook for a cop killed. Now, for Joe Waverley, he would just
continue business as usual and for themost part, no one ever believed that
they would find the killer of RalphDoles, especially Kim Kenna, his wife.
Now, from two thousand and oneto two thousand and three, Joe
(34:52):
Waverley would get right back to whathe does best, you know, basically,
you know, being a mobster.He was at this point a very
high up in the Colombo crime family. At one point he would become the
street boss as I said, ButJoe Waverley, it continued to be what
he did best, be a mobster. During two thousand and one, or
(35:13):
two thousand and three, the federalgovernment would allege that Joe Waverley would run
five Brooklyn based gambling sites that broughtin big money, including an underground casino
at a swanky Bergen Beach yacht clubcalled the Bergen Yacht Club. So he
was involved in some big money makingopportunities, and the Feds would find this
(35:35):
out through wiretaps basically that they placedon not only Joe Waverley's phones, but
members of his inner circle. Now, Joe Waverley would basically say on the
phone in a conversation with an associatecalled Jerry Esposito, that he ran a
game at twenty six fifty seven Eastsixty sixth Street in Mill Basin, which
(35:58):
was the Bergen Yacht Club. Hewould say, well, it's a casino.
There's roulette, blackjack, craps,everything, three nights a week,
full bar, full buffet for everything. All high class waitresses were bow ties.
Sounds pretty nice actually now. Kasaalso sat according to Gangly News,
that he had two other card gamesbelonging to another Coppa regime called Benjamin Castellaza.
(36:22):
Then when he went to prison,he took them over. One of
the card games was run out ofsixty six eight Eighteenth Avenue and Benson Hurst
by one of his associates, RobertBobby Bibbs Casa Messino, who was close
with Joe Waverley. They would alsotalk about on the phone some of the
(36:43):
crimes that they would also commit outsideof illegal gambling and other things. He
would say that Joe Kikase would orderpeople to do what they had to do
to not only collect, but nothave to pay people as well. On
May twenty, two thousand and one, individual named Carmin Badonza, who was
a member of Cocas's in her circle, would give a gambler a beating after
(37:07):
the house did not have sufficient fundsto pay off the customers winning. So
in a roundabout way, this gamblergoes in, wins some money and Badonza
this guy decides to Hey, insteadof paying him, I'm just gonna give
him a fucking beating. And ina conversation Joe Waverley would tell a crew
member called Patrick Picciorello, quote,CARMI hit a guy out there last night.
(37:30):
I think the guy won. Theydidn't have the money to pay him.
They took him outside. I knowhe cracked him a couple times the
guy ran, they chased him,and I closed up shop. So Joe
Waverley was not only killing people orderingkills, but he was also very much
involved with gambling, very much involvedwith extortion, very much involved with loan
(37:52):
sharking, and he was administering thatmembers of his crew just instead of paying
people just beat them up. Now, this goes back to the show we
did on Griselve de Blanco, andit kind of sounds like he pulled to
Grizalta Blanco where Griselda just didn't wantto pay people so she just killed them.
Now, Joe Waverley didn't have himkilled, but people in his organization
(38:13):
were also doing things. Now,this is also a very interesting story because
according to the same court papers thatall this stuff was followed in subsequently that
we'll talk about seven years earlier,in the mid to late nineties, it
was aleedgs that Joe Waverley actually representedan MC, a motorcycle gang that had
(38:34):
threatened the owners of The Vault,which was a sex club. I guess
the club failed to repay a debtthat they owed the motorcycle crew, and
Joe Waverley spoke on behalf of thebikers with the the Cavalcanti crime family had
a sit down. I guess fromwhat I understand, the sit down will
take place at a different spot,but you know, the goal was to
(38:59):
create some sort of payment schedule thatthe loan could be repaid. So it's
kind of interesting. Joe Waverley washandling all sorts of things and he had
a lot of power. In Januaryof two thousand and three, though,
the government would catch up with JoeWaveley case. In that year, he
would be indicted on not only gambling, extortion, loan sharking, and assault
(39:24):
charges, but also on several murders. Also along in that indictment were members
of his crew, including Carmine Baldanza, Bobby Bibbs, Casamassano, Jerry Esposito,
Luca Di Matteo, and other Colombocrime family members. The problem for
(39:46):
Joe Waverly was he was gonna haveto face the truth that he likely was
going to have to face some sortof murder beef, and that's what the
government tried to bring. They wouldultimately get him to pleate guilty on having
a hand in basically passing a messagethat someone needed to be killed, and
(40:07):
this had to do with the hitback on George Ernwald. You're getting rid
of some of the evidence there,and by having people killed, he would
admit to the government that he didhave a hand in someone dying, but
that he took responsibility. And whatthe government basically said was, all right,
it's two thousand and three. You'reyou know, basically how old right
(40:29):
you're You're born in nineteen forty one, you're you know, sixties. We're
gonna give you twenty years. Youknow you get out late seventies. We're
gonna try to still get you ona murder. We could still bring you
on something else. We're gonna giveyou twenty years. And Joe Waverley would
accept it. He would plead guilty, and Joe Waverley in two thousand and
four would get twenty years in fedderprison. So you figure he's going to
(40:50):
do probably sixteen ish, gets outin twenty twenty. That was kind of
the goal. Now, I thinkfor the FEDS they would say, look,
we have all sorts of ammunition onthis guy. Maybe we can get
someone to flip he's going to bebehind the wall. Let's keep working back
on some of these murders. Maybewe could put this fuck away for life.
That was the goal, because JoeWaverley deserves to die in prison.
It's pretty simple. In December oftwo thousand and eight, Joe Waverley is
(41:16):
charged with ordering the murder on RalphDoles, the police officer. But what
we would find out is that DinoCollabra would be the main conduit in the
government's bid to convict Joe Waverley.They basically were trying to prove beyond the
shadow of doubt that not only didthe mob kill Ralph Doles, but Joe
(41:40):
Waverley was the one that ordered thehit. The problem for the government and
for Dino Collaboro is that no onereally believed him. And ultimately for mister
Waverley, he would be acquitted ofthis and beat the rap on November twenty
(42:02):
six, twenty thirteen. So theFeder're probably gonna have to admit that eventually
Joe Waverley Kicks was going to getout of jail. They wanted to put
him away forever. Didn't work thoughno one believed these guys. Now the
individuals involved in this hit, mostnotably Dino Collaboro. Dina collabor is a
(42:22):
freeman that's unclear what he does now. He is in the wittest protection program.
As far as I know, littleDino Saracino got fifty years now,
whether he ever gets out, wedon't know. He does have a release
date, but who knows if he'llsurvive that long. As far as Joe
Waverley, he would move around.He spent some time in some really heavy
(42:43):
usps and things of that nature,but he would ultimately be released from the
French Federal Correctional Institution at Ashton,Kentucky in May of twenty twenty. Now,
I do want to get into afairly odd situation that would happen to
Joe Waverley Ky Case. He wouldactually get some bad news of his own,
and he would find out that intwenty fifteen, his son, Joel
(43:05):
Junior aka Jojo Ka Case would actuallydie of a sudden heart attack. This
was sad news for Joe Waverley.It was a son that, you know,
weirdly enough, didn't really follow himinto the life. At one point,
it was alleged that Joel Waverley Juniorended up having a job in the
(43:28):
union and at one point at ano show job, but he didn't necessarily
follow his father into the life,but he was able to build up a
pretty decent life for himself. Hehad a pretty nice home out in Long
Island. He had had a daughter, a girl called Dina Marie. And
I bring this up because a weirdsituation would actually develop after Jojo Junior passed.
(43:52):
According to members of the family,I guess from what I've gathered in
all of this, there it wassome sort of will allegedly set up by
Jojo Kicks and then after he died, the daughter would find out that basically
it was a fake will that hismother, who was Joe Waverley's wife,
(44:15):
basically created and forged in hopes thatshe would get a lot of the money
that her son allegedly had and basicallywill put the daughter on the street.
Now, I guess the mother,Vita Rose Kikese, who was seventy years
old, was given sole control ofher son's assets until twenty twenty eight,
(44:37):
when she will be eighty seven,and when Diana Marie will be thirty one.
According to the stake, the holdingsof the estate are worth more than
one million dollars and Dina Marie Kakase, who was Joe Waverley's grandur. She
would basically say that she's being screwedout of this and that the entire family
is out to get her and thatthey don't want her to actually get any
of the money, which is probablyfucked up because in the end, her
(45:00):
father, Jojo Junior, probably justwants his daughter to be taken care of
in the case that he died.That's why he created the will. It's
just kind of a weird story.But as far as an outcome on this,
I've really been unable to find whatactually happened here. From what I
understand, this happened in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen ish. Dina Marie is
(45:22):
obviously still several years away from beingthe age she needs to be to get
all this, but I guess we'llkind of figure that out when we get
to it. As far as JoeWaverley, he is still alive. He's
eighty one years old. The questionis what does Joe Waverly do now?
You know, we talk all thetime about what does the mob look like
(45:42):
today? Look, as we know, the Colombo crime family is in a
very precarious state. Most of theupper echelonut of his family including the underboss,
the Consolieri, high end capos includingTeddy Persico, all in jail.
(46:02):
One of the other capitals Joe amotto, he's in jail. You know.
There's a lot of people in jail, the boss, the family just
died, mush rousso little Alley Boy'snever coming home. It's possible. Now,
again, this is just an opinion. It's not what's true. It's
just my opinion. It is possiblethat if Joe Waverley is in the streets,
(46:27):
you know, maybe at some pointhe's given the boss title. He's
had it before. He's obviously old, but he's still sprite. From what
I understand, is he involved.I have no idea. I don't know
if Joe's involved. I'm not inthe mafia, as I've said, so
I don't know. But uh,it's possible for sure, because I think
in the end, the truth isabout Joe Waverley. He's a gangster.
(46:52):
But the truth also is that JoeWaverley should be in prison. He should
die in prison. He's a dangerouslunatic who not only was involved with killing
the father of a federal prosecutor,but he also, as we would believe,
ordered the death of a New YorkCity Police Department officer. Now,
(47:12):
Joe Waverley would say, well,that's not true. I was acquitted of
that case. And look, Iguess he's right in the end. But
in the end he's been very questionedon a lot of this stuff. You
know, we go back to thewife of Joe Waverley, his one time
wife, you know, Kim Kenna. You know, did she do a
great job in picking women or pickingpicking men. No, she hasn't,
(47:38):
you know. But it's weird becausewe also ask ourselves what about her.
You know, when Joe Waverley wasacquitted of killing her husband, she could
have helped. Federal prosecutors wanted KimKenna to testify, but Kenna would say
that she lawyered up and would haveinvoked the Fifth Amendment not to answer questions.
(48:01):
She had to ask yourself, ifshe loved Ralph Tholes the way she
did, why didn't she assist themin helping have the killer brought to justice.
Now, a lot of people wouldspeculate that Kim Kenna knows more about
what happened than she mentioned to theFBI or to the NYPD. One source
(48:21):
from the police depart would say,quote, she's a drama queen. She
only cares about herself. Kim Kennawould also say, quote, I'm not
going to take the stand and perjuremyself. What the hell do they want
from me? I couldn't add anythingto their case that they didn't already know
about. She would tell that tothe New York Daily News. She would
also say, quote, if theFeds had treated me like I was a
(48:43):
victim, which I was, shemight have thought differently about testifying. She
would also blast US prosecutors for tryingto show the jury notes from an interview
with an NYPD investigator the day afterRalph Tholes was killed on August twenty six,
nineteen ninety seven, in which shedenied be previously married to Kiks.
Kenna said Doles's parents were present duringthe interview and she was only trying to
(49:06):
shield them for more grief. Shewould also say, quote, who doesn't
know that I was married to Joe? So it's just kind of a sad
situation. But I guess if youasked me, something tells me that Kim
Kenna knows something here? Now?Who knows? She would also say about
when she told him she was leavinghim. She said, I told him
(49:28):
I was leaving him, and hesaid fine. I asked for nothing.
I wanted nothing. Who would thinkanything was going to happen? So,
you know, kind of a sadsituation in general. Whether we believe or
don't believe Kim Kenna, I don'tknow what Kim kenn is up to now.
She may be on her eighth husbandby this point. She has not
very good luck with what a man. I guess you have to also must
(49:50):
feel bad for because she doesn't seemlike she's completely all there. But who
knows. As I said, wedon't really know what Joe Waverley status is.
However, you know he's definitely adangerous person and society would be more
safe if he wasn't around what hedoes now. I don't know. Maybe
he's just trying to enjoy the restof his life in relative anonymity with his
(50:12):
grandkids and his family. I don'tknow, but I guess as we know,
once a gangster, always a gangster, as always. Guys, thanks
for joining me here on another weekof the sit down. I hope everyone
took what I said earlier and justkind of understand where I'm coming. From
I just need a break from allthis. I basically did a year and
(50:37):
half basically of this show, andyou know, it's time for me to
focus on some other things that arethat are just super important that I have
to attend to. So if Ido, we'll come back at some point.
We'll definitely get back into mob stuff. We'll do a lot more kind
of everarching stuff on true crime.You'll get into some other things as well.
But in the meantime, join usnext week. We have a really
(50:59):
cool so coming out. I gotsome special guests that are going to join
us next week and we'll do onefinal show for the time being on the
sit Down here, and then Iwould urge you you want to show some
love, come check out what I'mdoing in sports. I've got a lot
of cool announcements coming up, hopefullysome more shows. I know a lot
of you like that stuff. Butas I always say, go check us
(51:21):
out on YouTube as well. I'mstill gonna do some content on YouTube,
just some kind of quick ten tofifteen to twenty minute videos once a week
or so. We'll keep the mobstuff fresh and current. So I'm just
trying to cut down some of thework that I'm doing right now, so
we'll return at some point, butdo me a favorite. Join me next
week for our final episode as wego on a little hiatus. But as
always, I'm Jeff Natu. Ifyou have any questions, you have any
(51:44):
concerns, you want to send yourregards, whatever, do me a favorite.
You can send them to me.Just check us out on Twitter at
the sit Down seven. You canalso email the show if you really want
to, at the sit Down sevenseven seven at gmail dot com. Sit
Down on seven seven seven at gmaildot com. All right, everybody,
hope you enjoyed the episode this week. We'll see you next week. Here all listen
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