The Marvel Snap Situation is a Dumpster Fire | The Snap Chat Ep. 138 - The Snap Chat: Marvel Snap Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Cozy (00:00):
Is going on guys, and welcome back to another episode

(00:02):
of the Snapchat.
If you guys have, uh, been undera rock.
There's a lot of controversyright now in Marvel Snap, and,
and we've decided just to lookpast it and just focus on the
good the happy.
Heck.
Can we get through it guys?
No, today I've got on Regis andAlex and we're gonna talk about
what's going on in Marvel Snap.
If you guys want the happy golucky, good stuff.

(00:22):
Come next week.
'cause you're definitely notgonna get that today.
We don't even have subjectsactually.
We just got all on a call andstarted talking and so that's a
bit of what you guys.
We're going to get today for theSnapchat as we discuss what has
been a catastrophe, uh, to putit lightly of a week for not
only second dinner, but Snapitself.
Let's jump in.
Alright guys, so I've decided toform the, uh, our version of the

(00:45):
Avengers here.
And, and really that just meansbringing in my, my biggest hero
in the middle here, like theBrady Bunch.
Regis has been so, uh, kind tojoin us on today's episode of
the Snapchat and it's gonna looka little bit different.
Today.
We have just one subject and Idon't even know the name of the
subject.
It's just maybe what the f isgoing on.

(01:05):
Marvel Snap second dinnerfeaturing Regis Gilbert.
I'm gonna give you the four,buddy.
What's up?
I'm glad to have you.

Regis (01:11):
Uh, this is like the best sandwich ever.
By the way.
I'm like the beautiful, the, themeat in the middle of the
sandwich and I, it's, it's agreat spot to be.
I think it's called the New Eraof Snap, because that's what
they teased.
We were like entering a new eraof Snap and then like the first
thing that happened is this kidOmega fiasco.
So I've been calling it

Alex (01:31):
the new era, and as always, you're already coming
out firing Amen.
Like no mercy, right off thered.
Wow.

Cozy (01:37):
Sorry, sorry.
Yeah.
Well, as always, I'm joined by,uh, Mr.
Alex Koji here.
Yeah.
Today guys, obviously, uh, Alexand I always have like
tremendous timing of, of havinga Snapchat, and then something
happens within 30 seconds afterit's posted, and then we get to
wait a whole week.
Uh, but the good news is theSnap Team waited a whole week to
give responses, and I thought wewere gonna have a lot more I

(01:58):
don't know, maybe good news totalk about, but No.
You know what guys?
We've done so many subjects alot on Alex's side of like,
how's Snap doing?
We hate Snap, we love Snap.
What's going on with Snap?
And I just, I'm done doing thosesubjects, so we wanna put it all
together and just have an openforum.
Uh, I've had a lot of words totalk about it myself.
Uh, I've been casting this week.
And so dealing with my own, justkind of firestorm, but keeping

(02:20):
tabs with it.
And again, my, my slogan, uh, rejust put together a, a great
tweet that I, I wanna read herein a second.
But my slogan was, I I've neverbeen so shocked by something,
uh, that I completely expected.
And I think that sums up what mythoughts were on Snap.
For those that don't know, we'regonna quickly just talk about
what happened, the situationthat happened, and then we'll go
into the open floor ness to talkabout it.

(02:40):
Now, first of all we had highvoltage boys, we had, uh,
another limited time game mode.
To start off, do you guys likethese, uh, do you like high
voltage, uh, just, uh, at a bareminimum, not even the game mode
now, but I guess these limitedtime, like, what is your
thoughts on those?
Read?
Just Alex.

Regis (02:55):
I like, I liked the original high voltage, but to be
honest, I haven't played thisone a single game.
I, I just bought Kid Omega tomake a video and complain about
it, and then I haven't touchedit.
So I have no idea if I likeoverdrive or not.
Uh, I wasn't as big of a fan ofsanctum, to some extent it's.
Playing them is an obligation tounlock this stuff.
And then once I'm done, I'm kindof done, you know, because most

(03:17):
of my time is like making theactual videos or editing the
videos or whatever.
So, you know, I, I think they'repretty fun.
High voltage is nice.
It's like casual and easygoing.
I have no idea what this one'slike though.
I heard I had a lot offrustrations,

Alex (03:28):
okay.
Alex?
I liked it.
Honestly, I think it's allright.
I think the limited, uh, timegame modes are fun.
I like that.
Like even with sanctum sanctorumyou have like guardians being
relevant.
Uh, with this one, pretty muchnothing's relevant'cause no
one's playing it.
But what I will tell you thoughis like, I do appreciate the
high voltage game mode.
Even if, just for like, I'm busyon the weekend, I just wanna
pound out some, some weekendmissions to get my credits and

(03:49):
stuff like that.
I do like them, I do like themgenerally speaking, but I've
only like Regis engaged enoughin the, uh, the current mode to
get a specific thing.
Not Kid Omega.
I did not get Kid Omega.
I had to get the rocket becausethat's exactly how I feel right
now.

Cozy (04:03):
It is funny'cause Alex did like the preview on his side.
Last time we were just, and likethe game mode just went live.
It was within minutes and we gointo the game mode together and
we didn't do the math, like noneof the numbers, but we go to the
reward shop and we're liketalking, we're like kind of
hyped up as we usually are andI'm just like staring at this 50
K number and I was like, thiskid, something seems off here.
But then I was like, I'm justnot understanding the, the

(04:23):
currency system because itwouldn't be a mobile game or
Marvel Snap if there wasn't like19 new currencies and new ways
to buy.
And then we get rid ofcurrencies.
But then they still exist, butthey're called portal polls now.
Long story short, guys, new cardcame out, new mode came out.
High voltage, limited time gamemode and in there and typically
in limited time game mode, weget one, two up to now four

(04:45):
cards, I guess in sanctum, uh,that you can get by playing the
game.
Now these games, and I'm gonnacall Mar Marvel, Snap, a mobile
game.
That's what it is.
Uh, you typically can use moneyto get rewards fast in mobile
games or you can use time thathas almost always been
exclusively the thing withmobile games.
And in this particular highvoltage, uh, second dinner here

(05:06):
has put a card of Kid Omega.
We've talked about this card alot leading up to it.
He's been data mine now for awhile at 50,000 Volts.
And Rudy, just, I'm gonna passit to you here just so people
can understand 50,000 volts, howmuch that is whether they watch
this.
We have a lot of people thatdon't even play the Snap, uh,
Marvel Snap anymore, that watchthe Snapchat.
So how much is 50,000 volts?

(05:26):
How much do you have to play?

Regis (05:28):
It's a lot.
It's, it's in it's impossiblefor the average player to get
50,000 volts.
And I, I think it's liketechnically possible from what I
understand, for someone to earnit for free.
If you play like eight to 10hours a day, give a pretty good
win rate and you do all themissions perfectly on reset, I
think it's technically possible,but that's like 0.002% of the

(05:50):
player base or something.
No one can play Marvel staff foreight hours a day at a normal
life or scenario 10 hours, hoursa day.
Yeah.
I mean, we're full.
It's our job to play Marvelstaff.
We wouldn't even come close,right?
Like we have to work on otherthings, other aspects of the
job.
All I really know is like, Iwanted to make a video on it as
quickly as possible.
So I like always, I normally, Ilike buy the mission refreshes

(06:12):
or whatever to get the card asquickly as possible in high
voltage.
Uh, this time you could justoutright buy it with gold.
So I clicked the button to buyit and I was like, I think it
was 9,000 gold.
I don't, that's over a hundreddollars, right?
I can never keep up with astupid currency.
Conversions, it never makessense, but it's like over a
hundred dollars to get KidOmega.

(06:32):
So I was just like, my jaw hitthe floor.
I was like, what on Earth?
So, you know, I buy the coat,excuse me, I make the video real
fast and I just like complainedin the first two minutes of
video.
Like this is completely insane.
Outrageous price totals.
If you want to skip the line,basically to buy the card,
which, uh, you know, noteverybody has to skip the line.
You can discount the card byplaying, but the rate at which

(06:55):
you earn volts is so abysmallylow that any discount, it's
still gonna cost the normalplayer like$80 or$60 or$40.
Uh, and it's like anchored atsuch a high freaking price
compared to normal card thateven any discounts don't get it
to a reasonable level.
I, I, I feel insane by the way,that like normal cards at Marvel
Snap are expensive.

(07:15):
It's a digital card that costslike 50 or$60.
Effectively, like I, I thinkit's insane that we've anchored
that as like an okay level.
That is just still absurd to meat the base and that this pushed
things to a whole nother tier.
And I, it just blows my mindthat we're talking about a
hundred dollars digital card ina card game.

(07:35):
It's, uh, I, it's just like,we've just completely lost it as
far as I'm concerned.
So I dunno if that answer toyour question about how much it
costs too much is the answer.
It's, it's insane to me.
I don't know.

Alex (07:45):
I think that the conversion is like 8,000 gold to
a hundred American dollars.
So it's even more than ahundred.
For me it's like, I think it waslike$180 Canadian or something.
But our exchange rate sucks.
And I will say that I thinksomeone did some napkin math and
was suggesting that even withlike the reward track and
everything, you'd have to winlike 300 games a day or
something.
So stupid.
I don't know the exact number,but I remember reading it being

(08:07):
like, yeah, I saw that.
No, like that can't be right.
And sure enough, like there wasthe math and I was like, 300
wins a day.
Like what are we doing?
It ultimately Kid Omega, despitehow good it may or may not be,
is by far the most expensivecard ever released in Marvel
Snap.

Cozy (08:21):
And it's, there's so many conversations go into this.
'cause one of the things we'retalking about is this whole
situation, but then also justall the merits that surround it
and the breadcrumbs that haveled to this in the new era of
Snap moving forward.
Yeah, as you point out, ahundred dollars is absurd,
especially as you startcomparing it to anything else in
life, right?
Or like AAA games and all thatstuff.

(08:41):
Like, that's always been athing, you know, skins,
variants, that's its own thing.
'cause that's, you don't have toget those are things that you
can, you know, I've always beenlike a cosmetic, like whatever.
I still think they're too much,but I, I've always been kind of
on the side of cosmetics arenot, I'm not too you know,
concerned about, but a hundreddollars for your card that
there's no other way to get it.
The tokens can't get it as faras I can concern and correct me

(09:01):
if I'm wrong, this is not goingto like Snap packs immediately
or anything like that from whatwe know.
I think it's 30 days.

Regis (09:08):
Yeah, 30 days.
So it's basically exclusive tospending gold or unlocking via
volts for a, a window.
So basically if you whale out,you have 30 days to own people
with this card because you spentmoney, then everybody else.
Frankly it's still expensiveagain.
'cause Snap packs are expensive.
They take a lot of work and ormoney to, to get, but you know,
then it is at least accessibleto the wider population for a

(09:28):
slight discount.
Right.
But it's, it's the concernsthat, like, are you netting, uh,
an advantage is this reallysuper pay to win and super
expensive pay to win.
I, I, for a while there itlooked like Kid Omega was gonna
be like scary good, like canbest made this deck that looked
insane.
The data has leveled on it alittle bit.
It doesn't look like totallyscary broken.
It still looks really strong andgood.

(09:48):
So like that was a little bit ofa pressure relief.
But of course this is aprecedent that we don't want to
see and like, this is obviously,if it works for them, they're
gonna do it again in the futureand maybe make the card even
scarier and even better.
So, you know, we just have to becareful on this and really fight
back and push now less, it getsworse, which I'm still scared
it's gonna get worse.

Cozy (10:06):
Yeah.
So I think one thing about thisis not only is it a a card
that's pretty good, whatever,it's four outta a five stars,
you know, somewhere in thatreign.
But it's also just a very funcard at that.
But yeah, it's the precedent of.
This happening within a limitedtime game mode and, and only
having money to pay for it.
Uh, but in my eyes too, it'salso a, a communication error

(10:26):
at, at the highest degree andjust a bad taste in what has
been a couple of wins.
I think small wins for secondtenure leading up to what this
has been in general, but ittells a much bigger picture.
And what I wanna do here I isjust for everybody who doesn't
know what's going on, is givesecond dinners response back,
and then we can pick up fromthere.

(10:47):
So they've done two responses.
The first one was, I thinksomeone did like one of those
talk to the dev threads, whichI, I, I think is cool actually.
I've always liked these, uh, inthe discord, you know, for
immediate, uh, reaction as theycover up reaches his face
quickly.
They essentially this userasked, uh, greetings team.
I know the launch of five Volshould be celebrated as a fun
new mode.
They played handful of games,but much like the rest of the

(11:08):
community, I'm baffled at thedecision to price Kid Omega at
more than a hundred dollars ifyou were to buy the card
outright.
Griffin in the response here,which again, Griffin is the
community manager of Snap.
So, uh, you know, the guy, he'sa vessel, uh, uh, of a lot and
I, I think I want that to besaid real quick.
I guess before I read this, isthat this is coming down to a

(11:30):
couple people.
It's not the whole team.
Uh, you know, you gotta rememberthis when you're looking at
corporate suits, you know,there's not, it's not the whole
team conspiring together.
Griffin responded.
Our ongoing goal with limitedtime game mode, uh, shop rewards
is to give players more controland flexibility over how they
spend their earned currencies.
Most rewards in the limited timegame mode shop will be fully

(11:50):
earn able using currenciesalone.
However, some top tier items mayrequire additional gameplay and
other modes to earn through goldto make up the difference.
For example, kid Omega from highvoltage over driver's price of
the shop at the same cost as astandard series five card.
Players who want to acquire itcan use their earned volts to
reduce the cost by buying itdirectly and supplementing with

(12:13):
gold.
Our alternatively players canuse gold to purchase bonus
missions.
And, and it, and it goes on thatthey're gonna give some bonus
volts to everybody.
Now, if that wasn't bad enough,this one is what truly baffled
me.
So we had that as the immediateresponse, and I think people
were, were kind of shocked.
'cause some people, myselfincluded, thought it was an, I
thought it was an error.
I thought it was like, oh no,they just, they just put in an

(12:34):
extra zero or like, or whateverit might be.
So let's talk about thatimmediate response and then
we'll get into what was thetragic response that took'em a
week to put up.

Regis (12:43):
Yeah, well there were like two versions of that too,
right?
Like, he like changed something.
I can't even remember thedetails now.
This has been such a crazy,hectic week with so many
millions of messages I'vereceived.
But I, there was like a versionwhere he said it was at the same
cost and then, then he said itlike at a premium cost or
something.
I feel like you actually maybehave the original version there.
Yeah, I think I did.
I got from, I'm not sure.

Cozy (13:02):
Yeah, I got it From the Discord or from a um, a, a
tweet.
A tweet.
So it wasn't from the discourse.
So I had the original.
Yeah, yeah.
Oh,

Regis (13:08):
I think it's been updated 'cause he was wrong.
It's not priced at the same,it's actually priced at a
premium and he just like went inand, and like edited that to
update the, to, to reflect toreality, I guess.
Which I think that made a lot ofpeople angry.
'cause it was like, well, whichis it?
You know, like the messagingdoesn't really match reality
unless you fix it.
All of these messages always tome just feel like, so corporate

(13:29):
and like so pr which, you know,whatever.
That's fine.
I guess we use that in videogames.
But I have to say like.
The second dinner is not a giantcorporation.
It's always felt like they hadthis opportunity to be a smaller
team, be more community focused,be more honest and like
straightforward and stuff.
But the culture of the companyand like the structure of the

(13:50):
company, it's like theyimmediately tried to become this
really corporate entity.
They actually sound and in manyways, I think operate even more
corporate than like Blizzardthese days.
Which blizzard, you know,Activision Blizzard's been this
giant behemoth forever, nowowned by Microsoft and stuff.
And it almost feels likeBlizzard has a little bit more
like fine touch and like humanway of speaking than second

(14:12):
dinner, which I, I always get sofrustrated by that.
It's like, how did this happen?
Why are you guys already socorporate?
It never made sense to me.
So every time I see thosemessages, that's just how I
feel.
It's like, can't we just be realfor a second?
Like, just talk to us.
Don't, don't write these superprepared messages all the time.

Alex (14:27):
You go into Cha PT, you type, you are a game developer
and everyone's pissed.

Cozy (14:32):
Well, no, dude, but that's enter your

Alex (14:33):
query from, there's

Cozy (14:34):
funny you say that.
Okay.
First of all, I always think ofAnkin or everyone says, you
become this sore thing you, youswore to destroy or whatever he
says to to Ankin.
And that's what it feels like.
Second dinner.
It's like they became thiscompany, they broke away to make
this company and then it'sbecome more corporate.
I first of all just wanna sayyou're a teacher, Alex.
I, I would hate being a teacherat this day and age because like
the amount of little Timmy thatcome in with their homework,
that's chat gtd is is crazy.

(14:56):
But there's systems in place tosee if things have been written
by ai or at least there's,there's starting to get this
happening.
So we just, and I, we've talkeda plethora this week about all
this, which is what led to, tosome of this right here and the
response to all this.
So let me lead this up to itguys.
It was typically when you havean outrage, in fact in Snap

(15:16):
we've had other blimps andoutrageous, they typically
respond, I would say 24 to 48hours.
Like they're typically pretty.
Pretty fast.
And I would say almost alwaysthe response is good.
Like it's been a decentresponse.
A decent response, whether it'slike what is gonna be done
because of it or just owning upsometimes to, to some of it.

(15:38):
And, sorry, I said a lot of thetime, I think some of the time,
this time though, it took, Ibelieve it came out yesterday,
right?
Friday came out two days ago.
Uh, so it took, we were filmingthis on Sunday, so it took'em
nearly five days to get thisresponse out with all the chaos.
So they went five full days,which doesn't seem like a long
time.
That's an eternity of backlashjust happening all over the

(15:58):
internet, which they know ishappening.
So they had that time to sitdown.
They're together.
They're trying to make thisdecision as, and this is where
it just baffles my mind.
They sit down in a room at atable and I, I've sat at that
table a a couple of times intheir offices and they're trying
to decide what do we do withthis situation?
And I think everybody thought.

(16:21):
Everybody thought it was gonnabe a better answer than what we
got.
And essentially what we got,ladies and gentlemen, was the
following.
This was a response, which youcould see down at the bottom
there.
Very met with great emojis ofjust agrees the trash can is my
personal favorite.
The 3,219.
I would actually reckon say thisis probably the most reactive
posts that they've had in quitesome time.

(16:43):
The LI mean, it gets funnier themore you look at the, the
diversification rat actually,it's kind of a fun little game
of Pictionary if you continueto, to look at it more and more.
But a the Marvel Snap scene,they said we want to thank, you
know what Alex, I'm gonna letyou read this one.
Go ahead.
You, you can read this onebottom than top.
I'll let you get this one.
I'm not doing another one.

Alex (17:00):
I was looking at the frowny face with 988 and trying
to hold back my laughter.
That was a good one too.
I want to thank everyone forproviding your honest feedback
about high voltage overdrive andits rewards.
Specifically Kid Omega.
The intent behind Kid Omega'spricing was to offer players a
significant discount off of theprice of a Series five card
using volts.

(17:20):
I'm for the record.
I'm laughing at the statement,not at the emojis.
Yeah.
We set a precedent in previouslimited time game modes, and we
didn't clearly set newexpectations, which caused
confusion.
Moving forward, we'll set betterexpectations for event rewards,
including when cards like KidOmega will be added to the
series pack pool, which will benext month.

(17:40):
Our aim is for all limited timegame mode cards, rewards to hit
the respective pools around 30days after its debut.
We'll continue to iterate whenit comes down to limited time
game modes play, and how we willstructure their rewards.
Our goal for all player sorry.
Our goal for all these modes isto have something that players
want to earn regardless of theirlevel of spend.

(18:02):
Some events will be more focusedon free to play rewards, while
others may include other rewardsthat provide more purchase
value.
For the remainder of thisedition of High Voltage
Overdrive, we'll be sending aone-time delivery of 2,500 volts
to players inboxes.
Due to some impactful bugsdampening the volts in XB
acquisition.
It was also pointed out that itis cheaper to directly

(18:23):
supplement volts for gold asopposed to the more expensive
mission refresh that wasunintended, and we'll look to
fixing that in the future.
To lead off improving ourcommunications around events
ahead of time, we'll be sharingdetails about next week's
sanctum, uh, showdown very soon.
Your feedback is not onlyhelpful, but key to the future
of Marvel Snap.
This conversation isn't one anddone.

(18:44):
It evolves just like the gameand your feedback helps shape
it.
We're committed to keeping thisconversation open.
It will never be perfect foreveryone, but our goal is
fairness and transparency.

Cozy (18:55):
Before we even give our response on this, I just want to
quote something that ishilarious on this.
I put, uh, this into some, Hey,is this AI talk?
Because if you read that, itcomes across as extreme AI
written not by any human hand,and essentially this was what,
this is what was said here.
For, essentially, yes, they,they're saying that in some

(19:16):
degree that this was eitherheavily edited or completely
written by ai or corporatecommunication tools over
polished languages.
Phrases like our goal isfairness and transparency, or it
evolves just like the game are.
Hallmark phrases of brand safepr languages that lack natural
human voice or personal tonesoftened accountability.
Rather than saying, we messedup, it dances around the

(19:38):
responsibility.
We didn't clearly set newexpectations.
And we'll look at fixing that.
Uh, are polite deflections oftenfound in most AI generated or
legal reviewed statements.
And then formulaic structure.
The response follows a classicformat, acknowledge feedback,
justify, did promiseimprovements, offer
compensation, and tease thefuture.
This structure is almostexclusively used by AI

(19:59):
communications and what AImodels train for pr.
So that sums that up prettywell.

Regis (20:04):
They literally said, our only regret is not warning you
how shitty it was gonna be.
That's it.
They just said, Hey, next timewe'll tell you ahead of time.
It's gonna suck.
That's it.
I just can't believe it.
Oh my God.
Also, I don't think that I, Ithink they had the statement
ready before Friday.
They just like, it's a verycommon PR tactic to release

(20:25):
shitty news at the end of thecycle of the week on Friday
afternoon so that people go intothe weekend and like don't see
it, or don't forget it orwhatever.
They're out having fun insteadof reading the news.
So they probably just wanted tobury this statement'cause they
knew it was gonna be poorlyreceived.
So they probably had thisalready on Tuesday.
'cause all I gotta do is plug itin a chat GPT.
Right.
I just hate it so much, dude.
I like, I've always, I've, everytime they just, they screw

(20:47):
something up.
And, you know, we, we know thatit's, it's this song and dance
every time.
And then they walk it back alittle bit and there's been this
expectations like, okay, wescrewed it up, we pushed you
guys too far.
And they kind of meet ushalfway, or not really halfway,
but you know, they, they, atleast they give in a little this
time they said, Nope, we're donegiving in.
We're not meeting you guyshalfway.
We're screw you.

(21:08):
This is how it's gonna be now.
Deal with it.
And I, I was like,'cause I neveractually really got that mad
when Kid Omega came out.
Like, I was very frustrated.
It was insane.
But I thought we do the thingwhere they walk it back and they
didn't.
So now I'm just like, what?
This is what made me like giveup and get so frustrated on, on
uh, on Friday when I saw this.
And I've, like, I put tweets,you know, discord messages,

(21:30):
whatever.
It just, like for the first timethey just said, screw you guys.
And that really, uh, that likebroke me a little bit.
Maybe like really frustrated andreally sad, honestly.
Like, okay, this, we're in theend game now.
Like, you know, it's time tojust

Cozy (21:42):
suck it up.
I love that you highlight that.
Uh, re just said it's usually atthe end of the week, or it's at
like 2:00 AM It's one or theother.
They decided to go with theFriday route and it's just
ridiculous.
It's crazy that there onlyremark here was, was just that
they did not market it to us onpurpose, by the way.
'cause this was asked for bycreators, can we get access to
the rewards?
Can we see this?
They gave a preview typically atour little, whatever you wanna

(22:05):
call that little creatorsection.
Uh, and so this was deliberatelymiscommunicated.

Alex (22:11):
There's a couple things I wanna say here that I think are
really important.
First of all I want you guyslistening to know that Regis
specifically went out of his wayin our creator Discord to try to
correct this course.
Was very open with feedback thatwas written directly from the
heart.
And I hope that second dinnertook that to heart because I
certainly read it and wasthinking to myself this man

(22:32):
speaks for all of us.
And, uh, I just want you guys toknow that behind the scenes, a
lot of work with myself andRegis and Cozy goes in, not
some, some negotiations are notalways best done publicly.
And so, you know, there's a lotof effort that goes be behind
the scenes to try to speak inthe community's best interest.
The key thing I wanna take awayfrom the statement that they
provided on the Friday was that,um.

(22:54):
It was a double down ondestroying community sediment,
like absolutely just destroyingwhat the community felt about
this game, and that washeartbreaking.
I'd hate to say it.
Second dinner, the problem isnot a communications problem.
You are creating unforced errorsover and over and over again.
That could be easily mitigatedby sitting down to gather and
saying What's best for ourplayers and what's best for our

(23:15):
community, and what's best forthe health of our game, not
what's best for our pocketbook.
It almost reminds me when I wasa kid, it was this like little
like Atari game where you had alemonade stand and it was a
really hot day.
You can sell lemonade for$20,but you, you would only sell a
couple because there's only somany dumb, there's people's dumb
enough to buy lemonade for$20,but you'd sell way more lemonade
if you just priced it reasonablyat a still legitimate profit.

(23:37):
And so I don't wanna just, Idon't wanna simplify things, but
I feel like second dinner, weshouldn't be approaching your
consumer base as well.
How can we squeeze every singlepossible penny here?
I think that the playerengagement and the player, uh,
like sediment is super importantand for the longevity of the
game.
And for having a long tail ofsuccess in revenue and stuff.

(23:59):
But honestly, this was never acommunications issue.
It would be disingenuous topretend that it is a
communications issue.
What this was it's agreedproblem where essentially you
created a limited time game modethat should been something for
community engagement, and youstrictly try to monetize the
hell out of it.
How you just allowed people toenjoy the game mode, reengage

(24:19):
with Marvel Snap in particularwith this new era where we're
supposed to be getting morecards, new cards, a lasting
better economy, and all thosethings you promised us.
Instead of getting all that,what we've got is this hamster
wheel of like 12 cards beingreleased and then impossible to
purchase or impossible to earn,sorry, cards and limited time
game modes, which should havebeen a celebration of the
community.
And instead, this is where youare.

(24:41):
So I don't think it's, it'sabout expectations and setting
new expectations forridiculously overpriced garbage
ask game modes in the future.
It's about looking at what yourcommunity wants, looking at what
is best for Marvel Snap goingforward.
And it's, it's not this.

Cozy (24:55):
Y on all of that.
And plus it's garbagecommunication.
So like, just the extra sprinkleon top.
Like I think it's communicationtoo, because it's like all of
that.
A hundred percent.
I think here's the problem too.
I come from mobile games beforenow.
Snap, right?
And uh, and funny enough, thegame that I covered before Snap
got shut down, all right?

(25:15):
And you don't want to hap youwant to, you wanna know what
happened before it got shutdown.
They completely put a choke holdand they did the complete
sucking fallacy effect on theremaining players that spent
money on their games.
A k, a and mobile terms.
Wales Regis is familiar with theterm as well.
Alex, I'm sure you know Wales ofthe game, right?
They.
Rely on them to spend a lot ofthe money.
Uh, you've got what I like tocall, kind of greedy dolphins.

(25:38):
It's in that middle ground andyou got the free to play rate.
So then there's that middleclass that's gonna be some of
the money and they can get, theycan get a couple of those to
kind of go up to that wellstatus a little bit, and then it
completely ostracizes and justeliminates the free to play
experience completely.
Which the problem right now withSnap is Snap is a super fun game
and the core gameplay is greatcasually especially, but the

(26:00):
casual player base is justscrewed when it comes to stuff
like this.
And that's, that, that is sucha, uh, and this is just the
beginning.
That's the problem.
Not even the beginning, I guessit, there's things that have led
up to this, but the fact thatthey're in their own words,
actually effing, they, this isjust the beginning.
Th they're gonna just let usknow now more in advance.
And this is for a topic in justa second, not this moment, but

(26:21):
we have a season pass data mindat the moment that ha that, that
you gotta pay for more expensiveseason pass to get another card.
For the season coming, I thinkin July.
So it, it's a slippery slopethat I've seen before, that I've
been a part of before.
And guess what?
It stretches the game out andthen the game is done.
That I've seen this over andover.
I'm not saying Snap is doneanytime soon because they've got

(26:43):
a larger pool of players to tounfortunately do this to.
But it's, it's, I've seen thesong and dance.

Regis (26:49):
Yeah.
You know, I, I seen like, uh,YouTube comments, Twitter,
wherever so many people sayinglike, don't you want them to
make money?
Don't you want them to stay inbusiness?
It's a business.
They're allowed to make money.
And like, yes, of course.
Literally no one on Earth wantsthem to stay in business more
than we do because it's also ourcareers at stake, right?

(27:09):
Like, well, Cozy, your rivalsguy, now you got, you got a nice
little buffer.
But Alex and I, at the veryleast are all in on Snap, right?
Like we, we desperately want thegame to survive.
But what we're saying is we feellike we have the foresight to
understand that when you squeezethe player base so hard,
particularly for the present, itwhile disregarding the future,

(27:31):
you're just milking everybody sohard, pushing them.
So far, what happens is youjust, you just kill the game
from the bottom up.
Like you just keep eroding theplayer base who can't handle all
this pressure from amonetization, from an engagement
standpoint, asking people tospend 10 freaking hours a day
playing the game, people juststart to erode away and the game
shrinks and shrinks and shrinks.

(27:52):
And the whales need the free toplea, free to play players to
feed into the system.
Whales wanna have advantages,they wanna have stuff to show
off they're big shiny cosmeticsand stuff.
If the player base goes, thewhales go.
So what we're saying is like,yes, of course we want them to
make money.
It's okay to charge money forcards.
We want the game to beprofitable.
But when you do it this way,you're just going to rapidly

(28:14):
increase the rate at which thegame dies.
Like it may not be a year or twoyears, right?
But this could have been a 10,15 year lifespan on a game.
At least.
Like we've seen Hearthstonesucceed already for 10 years and
is still in a really solidstate.
I thought Marvel Snap had thatkind of longevity.
If they treated the game well,if they treated the player base
well, I'm thinking now like, arewe gonna make it two or three

(28:35):
years from here?
Like how quickly does the playerbase dry up when they're
pressured this much?
So it's not a question of like,we want everything for free, or
we're like trying to takeadvantage of Marvel Snap.
We just want them to do it in areasonable way that feels
healthy for the longevity of thegame and the player base, which
this to me does not feel, Ithink it's just too much
squeeze, frankly.

Alex (28:56):
I absolutely agree a hundred percent.
And it goes right back to theidea that like, this was their
first major move,self-published.
Like that's crazy.
In the back of my head, I alwayswondered if like, new verse was
like the suit in the room thatwas like, no, nah, nah, you're
pricing it at this.
Like, I pictured in my head,like you said it perfect where
you just before, like, you know,there mar like, uh, second
dinner is not a large corporateentity.

(29:18):
It's a small like, it shouldhave like a mom pop shop feel to
it.
And you almost wanted to rootfor them as like the underdog in
what was, you know, you have apublisher in a, in a developer
relationship and then thepublisher's gone and the most,
the worst possible case ofmonetization in its history is
then released.
Like literally the worst they'veever done is released.
And it's so heartbreakingbecause for me it feels like,

(29:40):
and the, what I got fromfeedback from the community was.
It's kinda like a you fool meonce.
Shame on you.
You fool me twice.
Shame on me situation.
A lot of people key back becauseof Snap packs.
A lot of people came backbecause they saw the Snap packs.
They saw that second dinner wasnow self-publishing and they had
hope because they love MarvelSnap.

(30:00):
It's, the game is incredible.
It's everything else around itthat is a complete shit show.
The game is incredible and yet.
Now you're like, okay.
People are like, you know what,you got me again man.
Like we thought things werechanging.
We thought that you guys havesmartened up.
We thought the Snap Pass wasgonna change any everything.
Instead, we have like 12 cardsreleased this month.
I have no hope of catching up.

(30:21):
Even if I buy the season passand buy a bundle or two, like
I'm still gonna fall like Hopelybehind.
I have no hope of getting KidOmega without spending$150.
I can't even play it until Iblock out every single day and
earn the card.
I'm just done and I'm moving onto something else.
'cause second inter, there's aton of competition out there.
There's a ton of competition andthere's other games to play.

(30:42):
And if you're not gonna like, bewilling to try to like support
your player base in a positivemanner, they're gonna find
another place to be supported.

Cozy (30:50):
The problem too for me is that we've been unable to update
this game.
We just, the other day I askedAlex, I said, if I stop playing
after, three months of snap'srelease.
Right?
And I said, yo, man, dude, Ilove that game when it came out.
What has come to the game sinceI left?
Like what have they, what's somebangers they drop, right?
Like we just answer thatquestion of relevant content.

Regis (31:10):
Dude, there's, there's like nothing.
I mean there the limited timegame modes are kind of
something, but they're limitednumber one.
So you can't just like come backand enjoy them, whatever
necessarily.
And, and they're not really thatsignificant.
I guess we kind of got conquest,but I never really cared about
that.
It it but you look at theChinese client, by the way.
I dunno if people know there's aChinese client that's run
separately.
I think Dexter talked about thisa little bit recently.

(31:31):
It, it's gotten so much stuff inlike no time.
It's been like six months.
It has like 10 extra things thatour client still doesn't have.
It's, I, I like, I hate to saythings like this, but I honestly
don't know what they're doing.
I don't mean, I don't mean likefrom a logical standpoint.
I mean like literally I don'tunderstand what like, day to day
what's happening.

(31:51):
I don't know what's being likeworked on.
I don't, I, it's just, it blowsmy mind.
I'm so sorry.
I'm mad.
I'm getting angry.
That's why.
No,

Cozy (31:56):
this is why I bring this up though.
Okay.
Because here's, this is myfrustration.
I'll tell you what they'redoing.
It's constantly fixing this, theBS that's self-created.
Because if you look back to it,right, like I don't even know
how far you wanna go back.
We're not gonna go to like Nexusevents'cause that was quickly
handled back in like beta days,right?
But if you go to like, even likewhen Za Boo and all that
happened, like they had likekind of the mess of how to get

(32:18):
new cars there, right?
So they spend so much resourcescreating spotlight caches,
right?
A ton of time.
And redirection went to makingsure Monet sedation, whatever.
Making sure getting yourcollection felt good.
That took a lot of resources.
They've even omitted to that oncalls and on talks.
Took a lot of resources to getthat in.
Boom, they make it, guess what?

(32:39):
Absolute travesty doesn't workout.
They go back, they get the tokenthing fixed a little bit because
they realize that it was, alittle bit too much penny
pinching.
Then it, by the way, you namethe thing and it's gonna come
with.
Money and problems behind it.
Oh, albums come out.
Oh, awesome.
Cool.
Like a great way to showcase allyour variants.
You can get most of it moneybased.
Right.
Okay.
Well that was a feature thattook a lot of time up and that

(33:01):
would've been cool to put in.
Anything else?
Oh, well, hey, Mastery's comingguy, and I skipped like four,
but Mastery coming guys.
Awesome.
Hey, how cool would it be tohave Deadpool and you get you
know, whatever amount of poweron a Deadpool and that's gonna
be your card mastery.
This is what was teased to us.
Oh my God, that's so cool.
How fun is that?
What a great way to have just agood gameplay loop and to play a

(33:23):
core gameplay that's top tier.
But then you have like theselittle mini goals and that's
what keeps games really healthy.
Oh, just, just kidding.
It's canceled.
Wait just kidding.
It's gonna come back and befully about money.
It's mind effing boggling andduring all that mess.
Okay, so this is gonna be adouble comment, but doing all

(33:45):
that miss.
The guy behind all the variantsin the art director of the game.
Johnny, one of my favoritepeople that worked at the
company, got let go about sixmonths ago.
I, I believe it was, or evenlonger.
It could have been a year atthis point.
I forgot.
I can look.
Uh, great guy Gone, new firstteam, Johnny and, uh, or not
Johnny Richard.

Alex (34:01):
Richard and Cory.

Cozy (34:02):
Richard and Corey, awesome guys.
They were actually great.
Yeah, they were on the, uh,marketing team.
I worked with them plentythrough, uh, conquers and doing
commercials and whatever.
With them gone, they don't workthere anymore too.
Ben and Nikki, uh, great people.
I, I think every experience I'vehad with bro has been awesome.
Nick is one of my favoritepeople in the world.
I think they're working onanother game.

(34:23):
I don't know.
I have no idea who works overthere at the moment, but that's,
that's where all their time isgoing.
Dude, right now is justcontinually just trying to get
the system to spend money on thegame better and better for them,
essentially.

Regis (34:38):
By the way, I, I don't know any of these people.
No, I know you don't.
I know you don't.
I know one, well, sort of twopeople at second dinner.
I know the community manager andonly through limited
interactions.
We've maybe spoken never inperson or on voice.
We've chatted on Discord maybefour times over the last two
years or whatever.

(34:58):
I dunno how long he's beenthere.
But I know the previouscommunity manager, we've talked
once on a chat, never spoken toBen Broad in my life, despite
being fairly prominent creatorin both his games.
I, I don't know anybody.
I, uh, I've just been completelyuninvolved with second enter the
entire time.
I which, okay.
I'm jealous.
I wanna, I'm jealous.
I

Cozy (35:18):
wanna this in.
I wanna raise this in'cause I dowant to talk about this.
'cause there's a lot I have tosay actually, about your
involvement with the game andthe lack there of it.
First dialing it just to the,the time and the effort though
on what it seems like has beenon mastery and albums and Oh,
sure.
And lack of content.
That's what I want.
Let's go there.
But I, I want to go back tothat, so we'll get back to that
in moment.

Regis (35:37):
We'll circle back, we'll circle back.
I mean, I, I'm not really, we'lltalk about itm not really
complaining.
I just, it's, uh, it's alwayssurprised me anyway.
Yes.
Uh, yeah.
Well, here's what I say, right?
Like, I don't mind theminvesting in things that, that
monetize the game.
Like, you know, if they needthat or whatever, that makes
sense to me.
But you would hope thatinvesting in things that, that
the players or, or areorganically engaged with things

(35:58):
players want to do, should havethose knock on effects that make
those players invest financiallyin the game.
If you made mastery really funand engaging from a play
standpoint, you're increasingengagement, you're increasing
loyalty.
You're making people feel moreconnected to the game that
should just naturally havepassback effects that makes you
more money.
That's what we see in othergames.

(36:18):
They make things that playerslike.
And what to do second dinner,like tries to skip that part of
it and just extract the moneyupfront before building that new
layer of engagement.
It's like they've missed a stepthere.
So they never make anything thatplayers really like or wanna do.
And in fact, I think a lot ofpeople are frustrated with what
mastery did.
Like made it harder to getcertain splits and stuff.

(36:40):
God knows.
I don't know anything aboutsplits.
I've never, I don't use variantsat all, but I just hate that
they never put like theexperience first and trust that
they've made something good.
They always put the monetizationabove it.
It's okay to be monetized, butyou just have to sync that
together and like earn players'engagement naturally instead of

(37:02):
trying to always force it.
That's what I hate.

Alex (37:05):
I love what you said there, Regis, and something.
Uh, I'm gonna let the teacher inme come out a little bit.
Something I always tell my highschool students is that I.
As human beings, we always,we're naturally trusting people.
We, we begin with a element oftrust with anybody we engage
with.
And in the case of seconddinner, of course you have that
trust.

(37:25):
The challenge with trust is thatonce it's eroded or destroyed,
it's literally the mostimpossible thing to ever build
back in, in life.
Whether it's, you know,relationships or whether it's
anything that you do when trustis impacted or destroyed, it is
near impossible to build onceagain.
And if you do build it, it takesa whole lot of time, a whole lot

(37:46):
of time.
And so when you think about thisnew era of Snap and the people
coming back for the Snap packsand everything, trust is most
certainly impacted there.
And um, I think you're right,Regis.
I think that, uh, it's one ofthose things where.
They, they should haveprioritized the player
experience.
They should have beenprioritizing how people engage
with their game.

(38:06):
And that would've likelyprovided that long tail of
earning potential instead oftrying to just ring as many
sense out of everyone's pocketsas possible.
And it really did make the gameworse though.
It made the experience ofplaying Snap worse because they
haven't actually provided uswith anything that we can
legitimately engage with for funwithout like, it's somehow being
ru ruined monetarily, likelimited time game modes were

(38:29):
supposed to be an exciting newinjection into the Marvel Snap
game, where like it would kindof break up that monotony and
instead it's an avenue for likeruthless and savage
monetization.
And I think that's reallyfrustrating.

Cozy (38:42):
Well, especially because in mobile games like this too
people are just, aren't evenaware of how much they spend.
It's actually crazy.
I, I think like if I didn't dolike my taxes on this,'cause I,
I literally do it for writeoffs, right?
When you start to look at thefigures that get spent, it's
crazy and it adds up.
Very fast.
In fact, you know, I think thequick, quickest way for you to

(39:03):
not spin on the game is just goback and look what you've spent
on it so far, and you're like,oh my God.
Like I didn't realize that thisone variant now this whatever.
It adds up.
I think too, one of the thingsthat just puzzled me and I'll
never, I I want under understandthis ever, is it's the core
philosophy, a bit of whatthey're about now.
They've changed it a little bit.
'cause we have this, uh, I don'teven know the name of it.

(39:24):
Uh, the, what's this, uh,tournament thing they've been
doing?

Regis (39:26):
Golden Gauntlet.

Cozy (39:27):
That one.
Okay.
So this was actually a practiceof what the company didn't do
this at all.
So conquerors event was thefirst thing they ever tried to
do, but we weren't allowed tosay the word tournament.
And they were very, and thiswas, from what I understood, was
not a.
New verse thing.
It was a second did thing.
They didn't want tournament tobe used on cast.

(39:50):
Wasn't allowed to say that.
I don't even know if that's NDA.
I don't really care.
That'd be a weird NDA to have.
That'd be a way to go down.
Right?
Like lose all my go to court, goin court'cause of that.
Uh, but they, so there was like,they did not want there to be
this, uh, competitiveenvironment.
They didn't want there to be anyof that.
And conquer kind of found like away around that.
Uh, and then they, they didn'twant to pick up and do any more

(40:11):
of those.
But then before that too they'vealso showed now outside of the,
the new game mode that theyreleased like three months into
it.
Like it was very quickly thatthey're, they don't want to do
new game modes.
Like that was the thing theydon't, they did not want to be a
part of.
They want to do these limitedtime game modes.
They've had blogs on that.
That's kind of the, that's kindof the core that they believe in
moving forward is these limitedtime game modes.

(40:33):
So at its core, the philosophyaround it is just so weird to me
because like.
Look at Magic, the gathering,let's say an amazing game.
Standard's awesome.
You know what?
Just, you know what blew up tothe Moon was commander and that
was a new way to play the game.
That's what blew up, right?
You can have an incredible coregameplay, but you always have to
add and innovate new ways toplay that.

(40:54):
And they just have refused to doso.
It just feels like they alwaysare putting up limits on what
this game could be and that theywant to keep it for casual.
But again, a lot of thesupporting around it is not for
a casual player.

Regis (41:07):
Yeah.
It almost feels like they don'ttrust their ability to like make
something that's good andlasting, or at least that and
monetizable, like if you knowit, it's almost like it demands
more investment from developerhours upfront and they're scared
to commit to those sort ofthings because if it, they can't
monetize it effectively, it'lljust be seen as a big loss.

(41:28):
Which, I mean, that sucks.
You gotta have faith in yourselfsometimes, right?
You gotta take big swings if youwant to get big hits.
Um, so.
Yeah, it, it makes the game feelkind of lifeless.
You know, like the only like newexciting thing we get are cards
and frankly, a lot of cardsaren't really that exciting
either.
I always talk about like, and,and you hinted to this as well,

(41:48):
like other card games have bigexpansion launches, right?
Where they drop 130 cards, theyhave all these new keywords and
themes and these crazy thingsand people notice those like, oh
my God, I gotta come back toplay all of this shiny new stuff
all at once.
It's this exciting moment toreengage players and Snap
doesn't have anything like that.
There's just no, like, you know,one cool new card comes out,

(42:08):
like, Dormammu is coming outthis week.
It looks pretty cool and big andfancy that normally might have
pulled some players back, butnow they're gonna be coming back
into an absolute shit storm ofMarvel Snap and be like, why is
everybody so angry?
It's like the worst timing, butit's, uh.
It does just make the game feelreally flat and level.
There aren't a lot of like peaksand valleys and moments to get
attached to, which isfrustrating as a creator as

(42:29):
well.
'cause for us it's like we haveto kind of maintain the hype for
them and like get people excitedabout the game.
And that's not very easy to do,frankly.
It's actually really challengingto do in, in most cases.

Alex (42:40):
Yeah, there's a couple of challenges related to that as
well.
When you have like sets springrelease and you have rotations
and stuff like, like, uh, likethat, like with the hers loan's,
a good example is you havestandard, you have wild and et
cetera.
It also creates like theselaunching points where you can
kind of reengage with a game.
With Marvel Snap, the way thecollection system works, if you,
if you take six months off,you're just, you're dead man.

(43:01):
Like you're not coming back.
Are you kidding me?
Like for what?
You'd have to spend an absolutefortune just for Kid Omega, you
need 200 bucks.
And then you, all of a sudden,you're so far behind, you'll
never be able to like catch up.
And I, like, I am not sayingthat rotation is the answer, but
if I wanna play Hearthstone, Icome in on a new set launch, I
buy packs for that set.
And at least I know that like Idon't have to worry about like

(43:23):
years and years and years ofback catalog.
I just won't play wild.
I'll play standard or whatever,right?
And so we don't have that here.
And so I think the idea ofcoming back and reengaging with
Snap is a super daunting thing.
And so for a lot of people.
Once you're out, you're, you'regone.
And I think that like, that's amajor challenge that they need
to rectify and stuff like thisdoesn't help.

Cozy (43:43):
Well, and it's funny'cause it, it continued to that, that
got stretched more and more.
'cause I used to defend it.
This was two years ago.
I'd be like, you can playPatriot, come back, play Patriot
Deck, you can be fine.
Right.
And then I saw something onTwitter, I think it was what was
I, uh, speci.
I love this guy, but he used toplay the game.
He doesn't anymore.
He had no thing.
But he came back, he tried toplay after being off for a year
or two and he tried to come backand just truly see like how it

(44:05):
was as a new, and it was soevident from that, how bad it is
to try to come back and have anytype of really even chance,
especially if you're trying toget up in the higher echelons.
But, and so that, that alone Iis so tough because, I mean,
this is early on too.
More so now, but the amount ofpeople like three months in,

(44:26):
let's say into Snap, maybe fourmonths in, they're like, man,
this game looks so fun.
Like.
How do I get all the cars?
And there's just been this backand forth with like full
collection, not full collection.
They had a bin bro ad that Ithink they deleted finally, like
four months ago.
But it was out there for twoyears of like, you can't come in
here and buy it, you know?
Uh, it's a different game.
And then, then they releasedifferent stuff and now you can
buy tokens, right?
So it's like that, that hasalways just been this weird,

(44:49):
it's just, it's never had a coreidentity of, of like how they
want the casual player to engagewith it.
And just seems like a lack of a,I dunno, a gameplay.
I don't know, man.
It's, it's been rough there.

Regis (44:59):
Yeah.
I feel like we, I, I feel likewe bear the burden of a lot of
this as creators, weirdly, like,you know, like we are this like
giant marketing arm for seconddinner.
Not literally, you know, we'renot tied to them, but, you know,
we end up doing, they, it's likealmost they rely on creators and
stuff in many ways to power somuch of the hype and excitement
and messaging like patch notes,right?

(45:20):
Like we're this basically free,uh, marketing arm of second
dinner, which sucks.
I hate that.
I hate that responsibility, but

Cozy (45:27):
yeah.
Uh, this is something I wannapoint it to with the new era of
Snap.
That, that, this is why I'm sopuzzled by all this too.
Okay?
So if you've ever worked for agiant corporate entity, right?
Like they I think we can allagree Snap did way better than I
think they were evenanticipating at launch.
Like the game truly blew up,right?
So they had a very small teamgame, blew up to huge

(45:49):
proportions.
One game of the, the mobile gameof the year, right?
And just popped off to thehighest degree.
Millions of players weren'tready for it.
Oh my goodness.
Did what?
Whatever.
You can talk about that.
But let's talk about the moneysense behind it.
So then you have you have newverse now looking at all that
money made, and typically howthis works is you've got the
suits at the top and you got allthe people here.

(46:09):
And this is what I alwaysassume.
Second didn was, was they werehere responding to here, and
these people, they just makemoney and that's what they care
about, right?
And they're asking, I.
Wait, we made money.
They did.
I, I did this in the hotelworld.
I couldn't tell you how manytimes this would happen.
We'd get this like giant eventor something that would happen,
and the next year, these ownerswho don't look at anything other
than how much money is comingin, they'd say, why aren't we

(46:30):
getting as much money as we gotlast year?
And so then they have to raisestakes.
They have to raise prices, theyhave to raise different things.
And that's kind of what we'veseen here with Snap.
What's mind boggling is theydon't have this person anymore.
There's no one outside of seconddinner itself.
As a company looking at yearover year reports and all the
business behind Snap to whereit's like, at this point it's

(46:54):
just completely self, it's justself ran and it's their decision
making at this point.
And that's why this thing is soearth shattering crazy to me.

Regis (47:04):
Yeah.
On the business structure sideof this, like I, I put out, I
don't know when this airs, butI, I think I'll have a video
live.
I, I did a whole rant video onmy channel talking about some of
the business side of it, alittle bit like, um.
I, I, most people, I don't eventhink know this, you guys might
not even know this a about ayear ago, I think it was January
20, 24, second dinner, got ahundred million dollars
investment from Griffin GamingPartners, which is a venture

(47:26):
capital firm who invests ingaming companies.
And I really thought at thattime, like, oh, this is great.
Like venture capital typically,as opposed to like private
equity focuses on growthinitiatives.
They want to, they want to growa company, so they're, they're
more worried about like useracquisition, gaining players,
engaging players.
They care more about metricsthan usually revenue right away.

(47:48):
They're not really trying tocapitalize on revenue right now.
They're hoping to buildsomething enormous and then
maybe have like an exit, like anIPO and gain revenue way down
the road once they've built thislike behemoth awesome all star
company.
So I thought, I always thoughtlike, oh, that's great news.
Like venture Capital's gonnagive them some time.
They're not gonna have to likesqueeze people so hard.
They're gonna have to focus somuch on revenue.
They got this a hundred milliondollars runway.

(48:08):
Yeah, and I thought, you know,it's, it's not gonna be such a
high pressure scenario, butthat's not what we've seen.
And I was like trying to rack mybrain like, why is this, why
does it feel like Marvel Snap isnot being given this longer
leash to grow and thrive?
And I realized it might actuallybe because of its connection to
the Marvel ip.
So Marvel Snap licenses, theMarvel, you know, names,
characters, everything fromMarvel, they likely have to pay

(48:30):
an enormous licensing fee forthat.
It's not like it's a freerelationship.
About

Cozy (48:33):
50% was Disney.
50% of the app store is what wasDisney back when I knew a game.
Another game.

Regis (48:39):
Yeah.
There you go.
Okay.
Yeah.
So pay this usual licensing feeor whatever, but what that looks
like to venture capital is likeventure capital wants.
To have this like giant scalingopportunity from a revenue
standpoint they tend to care alot about ip, intellectual
property.
They don't own the Marvel ip, sothey might be looking at Marvel
Snap as like this good way toget the game off the ground or
the company off the ground andlike get some recognition, get

(49:02):
some like proof of concept like,Hey, we know they can make good
games, but we're investing intheir next project where
probably they're going to ownthe ip.
A good example I was thinkingabout is like Angry Birds.
You guys remember Angry Birdsprobably from back in the day,
right?
Like Angry Birds was a mobilegame that was really popular,
but then it became toys andmovies and lunchboxes and you
know, all these licensed thingsthey can sell later, right?

(49:22):
They make way more money on thebackend from all these things.
Later, I'm thinking probablytheir ual, venture capital
backers are thinking, Hey, likeMarvel Snap's never gonna make
us that much money.
Let's just make sure it'ssustainable and solvent, which
means we do need to turn thescrews a little bit on revenue.
Like we need to squeeze a littlebit just to make sure this thing
can run successfully.
And it's not a black mark on ourname or our company.

(49:44):
Like maybe we'll just keep itgoing, not really maintenance
mode, but just like, Minorusupport and not really invest a
ton in it while we actuallyinvest our resources and our
brain trust and our, our talentcapital.
So the bin broads of the world,they're gonna go work on
something new or we can actuallycash in and make a ton of money.
So this venture capital thing,like might have actually

(50:05):
backfired and of, you know, ofcourse this is all speculation,
like we don't really know what'sgoing on behind the scenes, but
like, I was trying to break itdown.
I think maybe that's what'shappening is they just don't
really see a future in MarvelSnap because of its tie to the
Marvel license.
So we, I I, I almost feel likewe might just be stuck where
it's like, maybe they neverreally turned this around or
reinvest in the game, which Ihate to think like, that makes
me so sad and frustrated.

(50:25):
'cause it feels like it was areal golden goose for them.
But like, they shot their goldengoose in many ways.
Took it out, buying the shed andshot it.
But that's the only thing I canthink of from a business
standpoint.
I, you know, I'm just a casualfollower of these things, not an
expert.
But

Cozy (50:38):
yeah.
Two things I can just speak onreal quick, Alex to that is
first of all, just even gettingthe game back to where it's like
healthy and all that is justthe, that's the almost, that's
by far the easiest part, theuser reacquisition and the
marketing spin is true.
Like they would have to spend alot of money in marketing and

(50:59):
it's definitely not going to thecreators.
So they would have to do it in.
Uh, the ads they have are great.
So that's a whole, that's awhole other issue.
People always talk about, likeSnapchat, like Alex, the Snap
packs brought people back, likemaybe the streams, I'm telling
you.
But, uh, as a huge, it wasn't asbig.
Right?
As, as people realize, like,because getting people to
reinstall a game, reabsorb it,get dived in, that's a mess to

(51:20):
do.
That's very hard to do.
That's why it's so easy to bringon, keep a new cu uh, a
retaining customer than bringingon a new one.
That's always just been the barebasics of it.
But to what you just said, whereyou just almost no doubt,
because even actually it was insome interview when Snap came
out, I think it was like an IGinterview, Ben said that he at
first made Snap where it wasn'tgonna be with Marvel, but then

(51:43):
he realized playing, this is socrazy, this is coming back full
circle.
But playing cards like taserface and, you know, laser hands
and, and Flyboy is not fun.
It just wasn't as fun.
It wasn't as cool.
And so that's why they decidedto go with the Marvel ip because
immediately you have that.
Huge connection and honestlyendless with Marvel potential

(52:04):
ideas of creativity and you getaccess to everything that Marvel
is.
That's why Disney asked for 50damn percent of it because it's
so much back power to haveMarvel and that's why you see so
many damn Marvel games.
People really tried to or atleast there, it definitely did.
Like 2010 there was likeeverything, it puzzles, bubbles,
whatever.
Everything was a, was a a, adamn, uh, Marvel game.

(52:25):
But that's the main backingbehind it.
And so it's funny that you saidthat because whenever Smart
Decks came out, which was awhile ago at this point, I mean,
that was like a year and a halfago.
That was when I was told thatwas when positions were being
posted for new stuff, for a newgame that was launching.
And that was when I saw kind ofwho I was very, close to getting
to talk with Nikki all the timeand, and, and, and them over at

(52:45):
second dinner went to go work onthat game.
And Ben, I would assume as well,it's been now a year and a half.
Games take a long time to make,so it could be another year and
a half or whatever, but I, Ithink you could be onto
something with, uh, the tin foilnot even tin foil.
I think it's a, it's a, at leastit's a very sturdy tin foil.
Huh.
Lemme put it that way.
Alex,

Alex (53:04):
I, I am hoping that they're working on, uh, on
something, and I wanna just kindof reiterate what Regis was
saying, that like, I think thatMarvel Snap is, at its core, an
incredible game, and it would beheartbreaking to think that
they've pulled, uh, you know,resources off of the game where
they could be creating somethingthat could do what Hearthstone's
done for over a decade orwhatever, right?
Uh, this is a game that could'vebeen an absolute like.

(53:26):
Just a perpetual player in thecard gaming space.
It has the gameplay, it playsthe best more than anything
else.
It's, it's truly revolutionaryin that, in that standpoint.
And the thing that always got meexcited about Marvel Snap is it
always felt like it learned thelessons from games that came
before to the point where likeplaying some other games, like
they feel slow.
You don't have the sameexcitement playing specific

(53:48):
cards.
The art doesn't stand out theway Snap does.
Like Snap really does a lot ofstuff.
Great.
And I think that's another corething here.
And another, if second end islistening another core element
or pillar of as to why there'sso much frustration.
You've got an incredible game.
All you had to do was not screwup everything else.

(54:08):
Like that's kind of the, the,the crux of it.
Like you have a game that playsgreat, looks great, fantastic
ip, it is universally regardedas one of the best car games to
sit down and play.
And you found every opportunityto just walk your consumer base
away.
I think that's reallyfrustrating, especially as

(54:28):
someone who's a creator, likeall of us to watch people that
like we care about and weinteract with on a daily basis,
say, like, get message to say,you know what?
Like I'm done.
I can't do anymore.
That's heartbreaking.
That's heartbreaking.
That's, you know, years ofrelationships we've built with
people that are, are now justdisintegrating in front of our
eyes because you wanna make acouple extra bucks on some
stupid card and some limitedtime game mode that ultimately,

(54:50):
like, who cares?
You know what I mean?
You had something great and Ithink it got, uh, I don't know,
they just got lost along the wayat some point.

Cozy (54:57):
So I want to, uh, transition to some creator talk,
uh, about all this in a second.
I wanna wrap up some of thispurchasing talk again, guys.
I think a lot of the thing is,it's not just about the kiddo
mega carb being a hundred bucks.
It's just the five day statementand then essentially saying that
this is gonna happen again.
This is gonna happen again.
We're sorry we didn't tell you,uh, that, that, that's a big
key.
What were we gonna say?
We just.

Regis (55:17):
Oh, well, it's just the, you know, this was the breaking,
this was the straw that brokethe camel's back.
And, you know, Alex, you know,said, fool me once.
Fool me twice that, that it'smore like, fool me 27 times.
Yeah.
At this stage, right?
Like, you know, this hadhappened two years ago.
It would be annoying.
We might not really be thatfrustrated by it, but it's just
like, it compounding andpounding and pounding and it's
like everybody's done.

(55:37):
Yeah.
Like it's just too much.
This was, it pushed it, one, onepushed too far and that's why
this one feels more significantto me at least, particularly.
'cause like I said, they justdidn't walk it back at all.
They just said, screw it.
This is how it is.
That to me, ratcheted things up.
That's why I'm like, amped up alittle bit more about it.
I know.
I don't ever really seem mad.
I'm just a happy go lucky, jollyguy.
It's hard for me to get like,angry, but I'm like riled up

(55:59):
more internally than everbefore.
So, anyway.
Can I ask, I seen

Cozy (56:02):
the sentiment on, on social, uh, media a little bit.
It's like, oh, well guess what?
Next week, new car, new title.
This card's busted.
Everyone's gonna go back towhere they were a week later.
Like for you guys individually,it's a little different for me
and I'll speak on it in asecond, but like, what does
this, what does this taste leavein your mouth as a creator for
the game?
And honestly, hey, director ofmarket marketing, like, that's

(56:23):
honestly our job.
So what does that leave you?

Regis (56:26):
Yeah, I mean, for me, like this is my job, right?
I'm still gonna make videos.
I'm still going to, try to findthe fun in the game because I
think there's still a lot ofplayers who are gonna be doing
the same.
And I think I'm trying my bestto like represent them.
So I, you know, I think I'llstill have fun playing cards.
I'm still going to make MarvelSnap videos.
It's, you know, it is my job.
It's, it's, uh, not all of myjob.

(56:48):
Like, I still have a reallyhealthy Hearthstone channel,
which I don't think some peopleknow about.
It's like kind of slip undertheir, but frankly it's starting
to level out with Marvel Snap alittle bit in regards to like
views.
And I've seen a boost in aoneand, and it certainly decline in
Marvel, Snap.
So who knows how long the, the,the moral Snap will stay, number
one.
But, uh, you know, so like if,if Snap just went offline
tomorrow, I would be fine.

(57:09):
I would be able to pivot.
You know, I have other projectsand plans and things, right?
Like, I'm not worried about thatfrom like a financial or career
standpoint so much.
So I do wanna still spend timetrying to support Snap and
trying to find the fun in it.
'cause I don't wanna abandonthe, the players who are, who
are doing the same, you know,like there are still a lot of
people who have commitments tothe game.
Like, you know, you've built allthese giant collections and, and

(57:29):
variants and cosmetics andstuff.
People are really in on this.
And I, I, I don't think it wouldbe right to just abandon that
or, or you know, for sure giveup on the community or the game
itself.
So I'm, I'm still planning tolike.
It.
I think there will definitelybe, at least for a while, an air
of frustration a little bit.
Just like anytime I see KidOmega, I'm gonna be like, oh,

(57:49):
great kid Omega.
You know, like that stuff'sgonna happen, but just trying to
make the best of it, I guess.
I think a lot of people want usto be these like beacons of, of
hope and, and you know,representatives and voices for
the community, which I think weall try to be to the extent that
we can.
Like, without we, it's notsomething we want to do
necessarily, but we understandthe relationship and where we
are sometimes a voice for youguys.

(58:10):
So we try, but it honestly, it'shard to be perfect with it and
it's hard to figure it out.
Like, this is not what we gotinto this for.
We just wanted to have funmaking videos and, and trying to
be more than that sometimes istough.
We're all just, I think, doingour best.
I see a lot of people get mad atlike creators and how they
respond to it and so on and soforth, and it's like, give
people some grace on this.
You know, it's like.

(58:31):
We obviously don't want thiseither.
Like we're trying to stand upfor you guys, but, uh, I'll just
keep on that path.
Doing my best, being me, Iguess, is the best I can do.

Cozy (58:40):
Especially us three.
We're three tired dads overhere.
Like, we're for real.
We're all three dads, you know,and it just hits different, it
hits different when you have tolike deal with this garbage on
top of, on top of all of it.
Alex, I want you to answer too,but I want to add it to this,
like, what do you guys think theresponse is gonna be if we do
have a new season pass plus passwith a new card attached to it?

(59:06):
Alex, you're up buddy.

Alex (59:09):
I think that it's a, it's a disastrous circumstance to be
releasing a card that isessentially a series four, I
believe, behind the premiumseason pass paywall.
Um, I think the timing couldn'tbe worse.
I think it was ill advised fromthe get go, it's something that
Cozy and I talked about on priorSnapchats.
The issue with Marvel Snap isnot, we need more cards.
Um, they've misdiagnosed whatthe challenges were around this

(59:31):
game.
Releasing more cards andpayrolling more cards is not a
solution to any problem MarvelSnap presents and I think that
it is only going to make thisissue worse.
'cause I think there's a wholelot of people out there that
don't even realize that thatfantastic car or whatever the
hell it is, is gonna be behind asignificant paywall on that
season pass.

Cozy (59:51):
I wanna say there's no way they'd do that after this.
But honestly, there's a, theywould do it.
They're gonna do it, they'regonna do it.

Regis (59:57):
Come on, don't be, they're obviously gonna do it.
They're de gonna do it.
They wouldn't even be able topivot in time, but they're
definitely gonna do it.
Come on.
I know, dude, I actually,

Cozy (01:00:05):
funny enough, I keep saying that people don't realize
like they couldn't pivot if theywanted to at this point.
This was written in stone, likea lot of these decisions are not
like done if only a briefglimpse like Glen makes these
cards six months in advance, Ibelieve.
Right?
Or he like designs them orwhatever.
Like this stuff has been in theplans for a long, long, long
time.

(01:00:25):
And so I can tell you theyweren't like last week like, Hey
guys, what if we just did aseason plus?
Like what do you, they alreadydo that.
But I guess throw on the, thecard now with it or whatever,
even if it's a series four orwhat have you, which we've seen
Mercury and other car.
I mean it doesn't matter if it'sseries four, we could still do,
you go crazy.
For me personally, I think thebest way I can relate to this,

(01:00:46):
and I haven't even made my ownvideo on this,'cause frankly
it's just like I don't, there's.
A lot too, but it's like if youhad two jobs as just like a
regular person and you went toone job where like they, they,
you walk in every day, you workas hard as you could.
You put out the best thing youpossibly could, and you pour
your heart and your soul intothe game.
Sorry, the job trying to keepthe metaphor straight.

(01:01:07):
And they don't even acknowledgeyour existence.
Like, Ima if like you're workingat Starbucks and like, you just
not even notice, uh, and you'regetting, gr good reviews things
are going well.
Like the response has beengreat.
You know, you're told at thedrive through, you're, you're a
great employee there.
We, we appreciate you.
But then the, your boss hasnever even communicated with

(01:01:29):
you.
And then you go to another job,you have another job, you have
another job that has just openedup and the moment you walk in
the door it's like, we're gladto have you.
What can we do?
We appreciate you.
And this is obviously, this isjust speaking one for one for
rivals, for Snap, but this was alot of like.
Dear God it was super evident.

(01:01:50):
And when you look at it ingames, it's different.
Obviously.
It's like, oh, one thing to theother.
And I still play like Snap.
I love Snap as a game.
Now I'm a bit of an idiot.
I wish I had the talent thatRegis has and Alex of you guys
just being able to turn on thecamera.
I gotta do these full motion artas picture productions, and, and
it just takes a lot of time.
Takes a lot of time to do this.
And if I pivoted to anythingless, I just, like, I do it for

(01:02:13):
the fun of it.
I'm a psychopath.
I love editing and puttingthings together and like, that's
just like that, that that'swhere I get my joy from this.
And I re just, you say this best'cause you said this in the
creator, uh, discord.
When you sit me, did I see, didyou see this?
It's not even about like noticeme or like give me money or any
of that.
It like, can you paint on this alittle bit?
Because if anyone can speak tothis.

(01:02:34):
Great is the person who's beensomehow,'cause I at least got
like, so I got, I got like atleast like 5% of love.
I was in like one thing Ibelieve.
Uh, and then I did the conquers,right.
And that was, um, due for anumber of factors.
Regis, you have been

Regis (01:02:52):
I, okay.
So just to, to clarify whatyou're talking about here.
Like, you, you, you're sayingthat you've been treated, you
feel like with more care andrespect and attention in Marvel
rivals as a creator than inMarvel, Snap, like Marvel Snap
within with neglects.
Yeah, with neglects creators.
And I will say too, likeHearthstone for me, like even

(01:03:12):
though I'm not really the horsezone guy, I don't make nearly as
many uh, videos as I used to.
It's the same story for me,right?
Like, I constantly asking me howI'm doing, how are you feeling
about the game, sending meassets and thoughts and inviting
me to stuff.
It's like, you know, they show alot of like, care to their
creators'cause I think they seevalue in us, right?
And Marvel Snap has never, everbeen like that to me.

(01:03:37):
I've I've never actually beenproactively reached out to, I've
always had to make a connectionmyself.
And like I said before I'vetalked to any of the given
community managers, maybe lessthan five times for sure.
I could count on one hand.
Um, which I wanna be clear.
Like, I, I think some peoplewill hear this as like a woe is
me, or like a, um, oh, thesestreamers are conceited.

(01:03:59):
They think the world revolvesaround them or whatever.
It's nothing like that.
Like I'm actually pretty contentto just do my thing and chill
and vibe and like my channel'sbeen quite successful.
I don't really need helpnecessarily or anything like
that.
It just kind of always surprisedme more than anything that,
like, I am, I, I think I'm themost viewed creator probably in
Marvel Snap.

(01:04:19):
If you just look at it from apurely.
Like metric standpoint, like hewas on YouTube or whatever.
You definitely

Cozy (01:04:23):
are my

Regis (01:04:24):
man.
Yeah, yeah.
Hundred percent definitely.
I always worry, I always, Ialways worry like somebody like,
no, actually, but, but you know,anyway, I just always thought it
would make sense to like, have arelationship with me.
You know, because if I ever liketurned against the game or
decided to like, you know, burnsome bridges or whatever, I feel
like I would have a little bitof weight if I like went out

(01:04:44):
swinging and like could reallydamage the game and the
reputation a little bit.
It seems like it'd be good tomaintain a relationship and keep
me happy.
Like they're really lucky.
I'm not gonna do that.
I'm not that kind of person.
Like I just, you know, have funplaying the game or whatever.
I'm not trying to leverage myweight like that at all.
It's, I'm kind of lucky that,that somebody in that position
is, is that way I think.
So it always just kind ofsurprised me, like no one ever

(01:05:06):
tried to like be friends with meor I not even like, get invited
to stuff either.
'cause I often would honestlyprobably like turn down a lot of
invites and like, oh, send it tosomebody smaller or whatever.
Like, I'm doing fine, or I don'twanna travel'cause I got the
toddler or whatever.
Right?
Yeah.
Like, I probably would've turneddown a lot of stuff.
It's just, it, it, it just feltlike, why aren't they more

(01:05:26):
invested in this really, really,really valuable creator
community?
'cause it's not just me, right?
Like, I think Cozy, you felt thesame way in many cases.
I've heard from a lot of otherpeople that are like, Hey, how
do I get involved with stuff?
Like, how do I reach out topeople?
How do I get them to listen tome?
I don't know.
I don't know the answer to that.
But like, people pay us a lot ofmoney to promote their games.

(01:05:47):
Right?
Like too much.
I've always felt like we getpaid too.
Well, frankly, like we get allthese sponsors and stuff, like
they see value in us talkingabout their games.
'cause we have these audiencesand people trust us and all this
stuff, right?
Like, we've built this up for meover, over 10 years now, almost.
But Marvel Snap almost seems tolike take it for granted.
And it's not that we even wantmoney.
I don't want more money.
That's fine.
I mean, I take it of course,obviously, but like, that's not

(01:06:08):
my goal in this.
I just want them to listen tome.
Like you guys have seen in theCreator Discord.
I write these like insanely longmessages and I spend hours by
the way, reviewing them, editingthem, making sure I'm saying
what I want to say.
Being very careful with mylanguage, trying to frame it in
a way that like, I think likecorporate people will still
like, respect it and, and valueit or whatever, but still trying

(01:06:30):
to be like firm with it as well.
And most of the time I don'teven get like a thumbs up or a
heart or an acknowledgement orwhatever from Marvel Snap.
I have no idea if they even seethem.
Like how many of these messageshave I left in the creator
Discord over the last like twoyears, like 30, 50?
I don't even know, like so many,I don't even know if they get
seen.
Like occasionally I'll get likea thank you for this message or

(01:06:50):
whatever, but then, you know, Idon't ever actually see any
actionable changes based on thisstuff.
So for me it often just feelslike I am completely
disconnected from the MarvelSnap team, which, you know, I,
I've had a few moments wherethey've said like, oh, sorry,
you know, like, we'll reach outto you more or get you more
involved, or whatever, whichnever gets followed up on,
right?
Like that never actuallyhappened.
So I'm not even reallycomplaining for my behalf.

(01:07:12):
It just feels like there's areal lost opportunity here where
they could have better supportedthe game utilizing creators.
And if it's not me, it's like,you know, there's other people
and other opportunities, justlike so much value basically is
left on the table.
In this world, I feel like thata lot of other people see and
instantly recognize and try toleverage in powerful ways that
Marvel Snap is left behind.

(01:07:32):
So I guess that's my spiel onit.
I don't, I don't know if that'sa compelling concern, but I've
always just been a littlesurprised, first and foremost,
like, what's the deal here?

Alex (01:07:42):
Yeah, Regis, I want to echo that because, um, so
there's a lot of things behindthe scenes that people wouldn't
realize.
I actually feel the exact sameway.
I've had almost no communicationwith anybody from second dinner
at all.
The only people that Icommunicated even remotely was
Nu verse.
And they're no longer there.
The people that I interact withat all, uh, I've had no
interactions with pretty muchanybody from second dinner in

(01:08:03):
the longest time.
And, um, a lot of people pointto the fact that I was in a
conquerors event, but what youwouldn't have known from behind
the scenes is that I wasn'toriginally on the docket to be
selected for that conquerorsevent.
Mm-hmm.
And it was Cozy that advocated.
For me to be with him.
People don't know that.
And Cozy, thank you for that.
I would never have had my shoton that single conquerors event
if it wasn't for Cozy whoactually went out of his way to

(01:08:24):
advocate for me.
So I want you guys to know that.
'cause there's a lot of stuffpeople don't really know.
Um, this whole situation's sofrustrating because you have an
amazing game and it seems asthough we care so much about it
and we can do so much to helpand we're not given that
opportunity to do so.
And I want to echo what re justsaid.
It's not about money.
I, I, I look at, like, forinstance, in in the Dota

(01:08:45):
community, which is where Ioriginally came from.
Those creators are, um, a keycomponent to the cog of the
tournament machine, theinternationals, the regional
championships, all the thingsthat they do.
They are a core component ofthat community, and that has
been built over decades.
And I think that something likeDoda or League or whatever, that

(01:09:07):
those competitive kind of eventsand those large events actually
keep people legitimatelyengaged.
And it's, it's so great that thegolden, uh, the golden gauntlets
finally happening, but it tooktoo long to get there.
For instance, I know for a fact,and I, I, this isn't under IDA
or anything like that, I knowfor a fact that second dinner
had an opportunity to host anin-person event at one of the

(01:09:28):
largest, gaming arenas, likegaming conventions in the world,
and they just didn't take it.
And I know that it was offeredto them, like literally free of
charge.
Like, we will not charge you forthe space.
You get people here.
You guys got the space, you havethe stage, you have the people,
and it was never followed up on.
And that's heartbreaking to mebecause it felt like an
opportunity that was lost andCozy.

(01:09:50):
And I spoke about this, it feelslike years ago we're like, Snap
craves a competitive, you know,uh, opportunities to play.
And it just, it just neverhappened.
And so ultimately, I, Icertainly do feel that, our role
to play in the Marvel Snapecosystem has been
underutilized.
And I do echo, uh, Regis that I,I feel like I don't, I don't

(01:10:11):
have an avenue to providelegitimate, proper feedback, and
I don't know if they even wantit.
And it's kind of unfortunatebecause I feel like I've tried
to be a good ambassador for thisgame for a couple.
Couple years.

Cozy (01:10:21):
Well, it's, it's funny, Alex, it's funny you say this
dude, because, and re just whatyou just said about, you know,
luckily you're not the type ofperson that would like, you
know, uh, if they wanted to justlike turn the, the dime, man,
they went three for three.
Good god.
All three of us, those type ofguys.
And at one point all three of uswere Cal.
Uh, rough math, long form,constant over 6 million views,

(01:10:43):
at least 7 million views permonth.
28 day rolling that was comingin to the game.
That's a lot of eyeballs cominginto one game.
And if we were to take 7 millionof those into a negative light
would probably have donesomething.
But that's just not, and here'sthe thing.
It's not even about me or Regisor you, Alex, I think it's also
the echo chamber of like, we areseeing, like every time we post

(01:11:03):
videos, we see a lot ofengagement of people's thoughts,
their processes.
Regis and I don't streamanymore, Alex, you do.
So you see more stuff there,even where it's like.
At the very least.
I think one thing that creatorsare, it's not even our voice
technically, but at leastsomebody who's a decent person
is using their voice as a voiceof many.
And I think that's where it'slike, man, if we got reached out

(01:11:24):
to, there's so many things thatI would've loved to say or loved
to do.
Uh, you know, I've seen someonesay, oh, Cozy has been in the,
uh, what was I in the sanctumsub toum video?
I was Did the trailer for that?
Nope.
That was completely new verse.
That's all who I talked to.
And then they got, they left,they were gone.
So that was my communicationwith them.
Other than that, it's been ayear plus.
I think it was the conquerorsevent with you, which was also
new verse gone.

(01:11:44):
So the, my last truecommunication with that team was
a couple years ago, the teamthere.
Now I didn't hear anything fromthem for, I don't know, I think
me and Reid just were actuallyat one point just cackling.
'cause it was like month numbereight where we didn't hear a
single word from these people.
Even a hello.
Like even a, just, Hey, this iswho I am.

(01:12:04):
Nice to meet you.
Like, and that just.
Is bonkers for me as a person,but especially as a former
person that was the director ofsales and marketing positions.
Like, I just couldn't evenprocess it in, in thater, you
know, form of the word you know,creator codes.
There's so many things thatlike, I don't think we even
pushed on back then too, that wecertainly never got, going into

(01:12:28):
it.
What hurts me though is I knowbehind the scenes and what I was
told year one is laughable.
Like the stuff that was gonna becoming, the stuff that was gonna
have provided for creators, forvoice, for feedback, is that
like, I, I wish I could evenjust go on a rant of what all
that was gonna be.

(01:12:49):
Uh, but it is, it, it's justkind of mind boggling at this
point.
And it only each and every, it'slike whenever you leave, if you
ever dated a crazy girl or boyand you, you look back a few
months later and you're like,wow, they're still crazy, like,
I'm glad that I left that.
And not talking like a leftSnap, but more of just like,
man, it makes each month that Idon't put out 20 videos a month

(01:13:12):
easier for me.
As much as it stinks too.
'cause I can't say how much Iget the itch to make stuff.

Regis (01:13:17):
No, man, I was just thinking like, I can't believe
Snap, like, not like lost you,but like, you know, you, you've
done a lot of rival stuff andlike rivals instantly saw the
value in you because I've alwayssaid like, you are like the
ultimate like, spokesperson forthe game.
Like, so like buttoned up andprofessional and positive and
like, like Snap could not haveasked for a better like, YouTube

(01:13:39):
representative person to like bethe face of their game for them
from a creator standpoint, youknow, like, you know, whatever.
I, I do okay too, but I'm likegoofier and I'm not like, you're
like so good at it, you know?
And rivals just like literallyalready put you on tournament
casts, you know, like you'reliterally the voice of rivals
now.
It took them no time tounderstand that and like.

(01:14:01):
Instantly vault you to thatlevel of success.
And it's just like, what did,what was Snap thinking, dude?
They had like the perfect dude.
And, and, and it's, it's notjust you.
Like, you know, you and Alexhave, have been a, like, staple
of this community for so longwith this show.
Every week people, I hear likeevery comments all the time, oh,
on the, on the show.

(01:14:22):
And Alex said, Cozy said blah,blah, blah.
You guys have just been suchstandout representatives for the
game and I feel like neither ofyou have been utilized
effectively.
Like, it, it breaks my heart,Alex, to hear that he's just for
whatever reason, I, it doesn'tbother me that much that I'm
left out, but it actually hurtsme that you're left out.
Like, that makes me so sad andfrustrated'cause you're just

(01:14:42):
like so likable and lovable and,and so well-spoken that it's ah,
just like so many lostopportunities and so much
frustration.
It's just really been wearing medown this week.
So I'm mostly just tired.
I'm gonna do my best to keephaving fun, but I'm just really
tired.
That's my, that's my takeawaymessage.
I'm tired.

Alex (01:15:00):
Yeah, I'm exhausted too.
It's been really hard.
Um, it's been really hard seeinga lot of the messages coming
through, whether they're livestreaming or, uh, on YouTube.
People saying that, you know,this was kind of the, the last
straw and that they're done.
Some people say, you know, Hey,like unsubscribing, but love
your content.
Hopefully see you on the nextone type thing.
But for me, my, my goal is to,uh, continue making Snap

(01:15:21):
contents and because I, I dolike the game but I also, this
is something that's always beenlike, I want to, I wanna love
content creation and I, I reallylegitimately do.
And so I kind of see this as achallenge to, to perhaps try to
take a couple chances here andthere.
Try to, you know, spread mywings a little bit, try to do
some unique things that I'vealways wanted to do, but felt
like I couldn't because I had tokeep on the Snap cadence or

(01:15:43):
something like that.
I think that ultimately snap'sgonna be okay, and I think that
the game will continue to chugalong.
It might not be what it couldhave been but I'm gonna stick
around and I'm gonna see itthrough,

Cozy (01:15:54):
you know, I only have so much bandwidth.
And one non-negotiable.
I've talked about this all thetime.
One non-negotiable for me isbeing a father and being a
dedicated dad and being aroundall the time.
And so, like, my wife knowsthis, talk to it all the time.
I can make way more money.
I could make way more constant.
I could do way more things if Iwas a shit parent and I'm not
gonna do that.
I'm just not gonna do it.
And, or a poor husband, like noton my cards.

(01:16:17):
And so yeah, Snap had to take abig hit of that.
And was a lot of that influencedby some of second, not some
second in decision andcommunication and things around
it.
Absolutely.
On that note, everybody, uh,hopefully you enjoyed what was I
don't know.
Mondays already suck, sohopefully you enjoy having
yourself.
Three guys here just.
Uh, talking their hearts out.

(01:16:38):
Regis dammit.
We'd love to, to have you comeon.
I know you're a busy father manand uh, person over there
yourself, but, uh, we'd love tohave you here at any time.
We just appreciate you comingon.
Yeah.
It's nice to be invited tosomething.
Regis.
No, you we almost did atournament.
We were like, we were brewinglike in the early days.

(01:16:58):
No, I, dude, oh, I actuallyforgot.
I forgot that you just saidthat.
Yeah.
We

Regis (01:17:03):
kind of got distracted by other things, but we were
actually cooking up a communitytournament'cause we thought the
game wasn't gonna do it.
Yeah.
It was good fi days.
Yeah, dude.
No I'm I Jess actually, the Snapcommunity's been really good to
me, like other creators and.
Audience and everything.
Of course.
Like it, I feel very loved andinvolved and people say way too
many nice things about me waytoo often.
It's actually dauntingsometimes.
I'm just trying to live up tosome of those expectations.

(01:17:25):
But, uh, yeah, just having funand I, I feel about the dad
thing too, man.
Like, it's, uh, that's why Istopped streaming, right?
Like I, it's just easier torecord and not have to be locked
in for, for three, four hoursfor our schedule and for us, you
know?
But, um, same as you guys justwanna keep trying my best to
have fun in the game and findthe fun among all the shit
sometimes, you know, sortingthrough some shit to, to, to
pick out the fun is my goal.

(01:17:46):
I think we'll be able to dothat.
But appreciate you guys havingme.
It's, uh, it's, it's a greatjoy.
Again, you guys are just a, abeacon of, of fun and, and, and
you know, appreciation, I guessin the Snap community.
So it's an honor to be here.

Cozy (01:17:57):
We're two months from three years.
Strong dude, or Yeah, yeah, two,two.
Not missing a week for threeyears.
That's such a stupid thing tosay.
That's crazy.
That's absolutely crazy.
Listen guys.
Yeah, I encourage you.
Have fun.
Just like what re just saidthere, there's still plenty of
fun to be, you know, you couldget wrapped in the, the chaos,
but also just like go out there,try to get some cubes, man, play

(01:18:18):
some crazy decks.
Go watch Regis's uh, videos.
If you don't know Regis guys,I'm sure, yeah, if you're
watching this, you know him.
But go subscribe to the man,subscribe to Alex and uh, give
us some love over there.
Take my subscriptions, pour'emto them.
Uh, and uh, anyway, guys, weappreciate you guys coming on
and we'll catch you guys on thenext Snapchat episode.

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The Marvel Snap Situation is a Dumpster Fire | The Snap Chat Ep. 138

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Marvel Snap Situation is a Dumpster Fire | The Snap Chat Ep. 138