August 15, 2023 • 57 mins
For a term we throw around a lot, self-care is not all that well defined. It’s attached loosely to the ideas of wellness, self-help, relaxation and mindfulness, and so often comes to us packaged, commoditised and ready to be bought/sold.
Ben and Brooke start today’s episode by trying to define self-care, and eventually land on one that is as broad and inclusive as possible:
Self-care can be anything that leaves us feeling cared for or supported from within.
From there, they dig deeper into their own experiences of self-care, including how they make time for it, what constitutes "boring self-care", the weird rituals that act as self-care on the days there's not a lot of time and the parts of self-care they struggle with.
Brooke then reflects on a comment left on a recent Tortoise newsletter about toxic positivity, which asked about the difference between resilience, positive thinking, wallowing and toxic positivity. It's a juicy topic that both Brooke and Ben have some thoughts on, and will no doubt return to again.
Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:02):
This is the tortoise. The podcast, all about the possibilities
of slow. I am your host, Brooke McAlary, and I
am joined by my marriage host Ben McAlary.
S2 (00:18):
Well.
S3 (00:20):
That's really sci fi.
S1 (00:23):
That's always kind of weird, isn't it?
S3 (00:26):
This is not a podcast. This is a podcast. Sorry.
You'll get it one day. Yeah. I'm going pretty well. I'm.
I'm particularly stressed today. There's a lot of deadlines. There's
a lot happening in work life for both of us.
And we're tilting extremely. Almost to a vertical. We're like
(00:52):
sliding off the slippery. Let's be honest.
S1 (00:54):
Slippery dip. Seesaw.
S3 (00:55):
Seesaw. So. My energy is. Probably a little bit distracted,
but it's perfect for this topic because this topic is
all about talking about self-care and it's something that I
really need to practice right now. So I'm yeah, I'm
(01:16):
looking forward to, to having a chat with you.
S1 (01:19):
I think it's going to be a good one.
S3 (01:21):
Well, let's get into it.
S1 (01:21):
All right. So do you have a definition for self-care,
like how you would define it for yourself?
S3 (01:30):
It was International Self-care Day probably about a month ago.
And I've got a group of men that I sit
with once a month and we discuss self-care during that
particular night. And it was so interesting to hear everyone's.
(01:54):
Definition of what self-care is and. Everyone kept coming back
to this is self-care. Sitting around a table, having a
discussion that's not about footy and shit. That's just about
how we're feeling, how we're going. Our mental state just
(02:16):
talking about other stuff. And everyone kept coming back to
saying like, this is one of the things that I
do for self-care.
S1 (02:25):
Interesting.
S3 (02:26):
Yeah. So it's having real discussion. Real conversation. So that's,
I guess, one of the definitions of it.
S1 (02:38):
Well, or is that one example?
S3 (02:40):
That's that's an example. You're right. That's a that's an
example of it. I was just.
S1 (02:44):
Curious because it means so much to like so many
different things to everybody.
S3 (02:49):
Yeah. I struggle a little bit with self care in
the way that you've written about it previously. Whether that is.
And I do try a lot of things when it
comes to self-care. Some things I think work better than others.
But do you have a definition of self-care?
S1 (03:10):
No, not really. I sort of had a look around
because it's actually quite tricky to come up with a
succinct definition, but it's essentially, you know, you look online,
there's many different versions of kind of a similarly themed definition,
which is something along the lines of referring to activities
(03:33):
that preserve I'm reading this one that preserve and maintain
one's physical, emotional and mental health.
S3 (03:40):
Oh, okay.
S1 (03:42):
It's an ongoing commitment to look after yourself through helpful
behaviors that protect your health during periods of stress, as
well as an additional kind of element to that. And
that one I quite liked because it's very broad.
S3 (03:55):
I like the three categories physical, emotional and mental. Yes.
So the sitting around with other men. Talking, sharing a
meal for me that's like emotional. Oh, yeah. More. More
so than mental. But I guess they're kind of intertwined.
(04:16):
Because I was going to say, the physical self-care that
I like is exercising and having a regular exercising schedule.
My mental and emotional state deteriorate if I don't do
the physical exercise. So can and I guess that's how
(04:38):
they're all interlinked is Yeah. Making sure that you're. Yeah,
they all relate to one. Yeah. Yeah.
S1 (04:45):
I don't think I think in the practices you can
certainly separate them out and have, you know, as you said,
maybe exercise or regular movement is something that you would
categorize yourself as physical self-care. But I think it's really
difficult to kind of separate them completely and have them
in their own silos because, you know, what we do
(05:05):
physically impacts our mental health, which impacts our emotional health.
You can't you can't fully separate them out. Yeah. The
other thing that I don't know if you would have
considered it, but it's part of certainly part of my,
I guess, definition or the way I try and think
about and practice self-care is that there are some elements
(05:26):
or examples of self-care that are external facing. So things
like your gathering of men where you talk and you know,
or it could be catching up with a friend or
talking to a family member or just a wave to
a stranger, whatever, you know, kind of connection or a
random act of kindness, something like that. They're all what
(05:48):
I would classify as sort of outward facing. And then
you've got inward facing. So that's more your the stuff
that I'm I'm probably more drawn to just because I'm
super introverted journaling and meditation and solitude and creativity and
that kind of stuff. So it's been helpful for me
(06:08):
to recognize that there going to be times where, um,
those external or outward facing types of self care might
feel more draining than others, and it may be not
what I need right now. So if I'm feeling burnt
out or over socialized, then perhaps going and hanging out
with a group of people is not going to make
(06:31):
me feel supported from within. It might still be good
for me, but it may not tick that self-care box
at that time. And that's where I might need to
turn inward and find a practice that helps me feel
supported from within and cared for from within. And I
guess that's really how I classify self-care, feeling supported or
cared for from within.
S3 (06:51):
Okay. So that that's your definition of self-care.
S1 (06:55):
I think that's how I can. Sort of quickly quantify
whether or not I'm doing a decent enough job of it.
Do I feel cared for from within?
S3 (07:05):
So this is what I was kind of referring to
at the start, is that I can't or don't have the.
Smarts to be able to tap into that sort of self.
Self care. The the inwardly focused self care.
S1 (07:26):
Well, maybe you don't need it though either.
S3 (07:29):
And so is a personality based, do you think? I
don't know. I guess I don't ever want.
S1 (07:33):
I don't want people to feel bad about like, doing
or not doing certain types of self care. That's all I.
S3 (07:37):
Know. It's very individualized. That's obvious.
S1 (07:42):
What I will say is for you, I think. I
think you probably. Would benefit from some of those more
like interfacing practices, but maybe haven't found ones that suit
you yet. You have tried meditation and you know, you'll
occasionally say, Yeah, this is really.
S3 (08:01):
Yeah.
S1 (08:02):
Good for me.
S3 (08:03):
It's just part of my routine.
S1 (08:05):
And see, that's it. So is it not helping you
because it's not part of your routine or is it
not helping you because it doesn't really fulfill you in
that way? It's interesting. I think that I'm probably more
well-practiced in those, those like self reflection sort of. You know,
moments through journaling and just being like an A grade
(08:28):
Overthinker and that's not necessarily you. So. Yeah, I don't know. But,
I mean, I've often said to you when you're going
through periods of stress. Why don't you try this strategy like,
you know, morning pages or meditation or, you know, a
really simple mindfulness practice or something like that. And you
(08:50):
might do it once and you'll be like, Yeah, it
was good. And then that's it.
S3 (08:53):
Morning Pages. I do do a similar it's not morning
pages as you do it where. Yeah, sure. State of conscience.
S1 (09:02):
Stream like a stream.
S3 (09:02):
Of conscience flow state where you just writing anything and
everything and if you can't think of anything to write,
you write. I can't think of anything to write, which
is kind of cool. But I, I do a similar
activity where I just brain dump. It's, it doesn't necessarily
make a whole heap of sense, but it does give
(09:26):
me an idea of what are my priorities today work wise,
family wise. And self like self care wise, I guess
to an extent because I use. Like physical exercise as
part of that. And. Yeah. Yeah. Our dog is building
(09:51):
a cubby house.
S1 (09:53):
Dreams of some sort of doggie fort, which is nice.
That might be what he needs. He's having some self-care moments. Um.
S3 (10:01):
Yeah. So that's the morning pages. So I do I
do get the benefit of that. And you've spoken about
Morning pages. What would you I guess what would your
advice be to someone that. Is typically saying, Well, I
don't have time for self-care in the more traditional sense
of self care, because that's where often I find myself
(10:21):
and that'll be my excuse. I'm not meditating because I
don't have the time.
S1 (10:26):
Yeah, I think I don't like advice. I don't like
giving advice so much, But something that I do often
find myself referring back to is changing your focus on.
The outcome. So I find that when we talk about anything,
it could be creative. It could be creativity, it could
(10:49):
be self care, it could be movement, whatever. Um, we
so often focus on how it looks, right? So for you,
you just mentioned I don't meditate. I don't do these
things that you've decided that that's what self-care looks like, right?
It looks like meditation. It looks like, um, you know, mindfulness.
(11:11):
It looks like morning pages. It looks like whatever. Refocusing
our attention on how it feels. So finding your own
definition of self-care. For me, it's that again. Feeling cared
for from within and supported from within. So not getting
(11:31):
that validation or that sense of nurturing from someone else,
but from myself. And if I can find what that
feels like, if it's a physical sensation, if it's an
emotional response, uh, and try and then find things that
will offer that in really small bite sized pieces. So
(11:53):
like I view certain, some things that really weird little things,
I view them as self-care because for whatever reason I
feel cared for when I do them.
S3 (12:00):
Like, okay, well let's give some examples because this fascinates me.
S1 (12:04):
So clearing the kitchen bench before I go to bed.
I mean, we'll have a cup of tea after we've
cleaned up, right? And for ages we would just put
we don't have a dishwasher in our house because it's old.
So we would just put our teacups on the kitchen
bench and be. They'll be there in the morning. We'll
clean them up then. I didn't realize, but that kind
(12:26):
of really frustrated me. So just washing them up and dry, like,
you know, drying them or putting them in the sink
so I can't even see them. That feels like self-care
because I get up in the morning and it's a
clear space. Like that's a ridiculous thing, but it feels
like self-care. Same with opening the curtains every morning. I
(12:47):
find that ritual and I call it a ritual in
my head, which might be something to consider as well.
That ritual of opening the of opening the curtains greeting
the day feels really grounding and centering. And it's just
a tiny little moment for me that I would be
doing anyway. But I've found it to be a shortcut
(13:09):
to that sense of feeling cared for or supported from within. Weird.
I know. Um, having. So I have to take a
tablet first thing in the morning when I wake up.
I get that out the night before and have it
next to my bed with a glass of water that
feels like self-care, taking my supplements, that is self-care, that
(13:30):
is literally self-care. But I treat it as a moment
of supporting myself and caring for myself rather than some
thing that I have to do that I have to take.
S3 (13:42):
Because you spoke. So you're just speaking about rituals slash habits?
S1 (13:46):
Sure. Yeah. And in part it's it's reframing those things.
So you were talking about not having time. So I
guess there's a way of maybe shortcutting that's finding things
that offer you a shortcut to that sense of feeling
cared for as your, you know, your bare minimum rituals
or habits of self-care. You look perplexed.
S3 (14:17):
I'm interested. Because if I was to because I love
writing down what I need to do in a day,
and if I start writing in those habitual, maybe self
care orientated things, they would just be part of that list.
So that's sort of one way. Instead of it being
(14:39):
a subconscious thing, it needs to be actually planned for.
S1 (14:43):
Oh yeah, you can't like until these things become second
nature like deeply ingrained second nature. You have to be
intentional about it, like, and I.
S3 (14:52):
Think that's the biggest barrier for me.
S1 (14:55):
It's a practice and that you call it a practice
for a reason, you know, And I will fall in
and out of practices all the time. Up until about
six months ago, I had a solid self-care ritual in
the morning that was, you know, get up, put the
coffee on stretch, pour coffee, come and sit out in
the back room, write in my journal, drink my coffee, meditate, write.
(15:19):
You know, all they were all part of my morning
self-care ritual until about six months ago. And then I
realized that just because of where my health is at
the moment, the best self-care I can give myself in
the mornings is actually to sleep for the extra hour.
So that's what I've been doing, you know? So you
fall in and out of them all the time, but
it's to me. I don't know that we clock the
(15:45):
the care that we're giving ourselves unless we're doing it intentionally.
So you could be like going through all the motions
and you do you prioritize sleep, you prioritize good nutrition,
you prioritize movement, you prioritize connection. And it's interesting to
me that you don't see any of those things as
self-care because maybe you haven't clocked them as an intentional
(16:06):
choice to care for yourself.
S3 (16:09):
I agree with that. I really agree with that. Going
back to the men's table that I'm involved in and
the different themes that came up during the topic of
self care, one of the biggest. In fact, I think
every single person spoke about it. And we're talking about
like an intergenerational table here from, Yeah, 80 year olds
(16:30):
down to to younger adults. And it was nature. Being
in nature and connecting with nature, whether that's bushwalkers, mountain biking.
Every man. Said that as nature is so important because
(16:53):
inevitably the topic got on to tech and tech usage
and being addicted to phones and devices and always on
always connected to step away from that connected world. Is
a is a really, really important. Thing to do in
(17:15):
regards to self-care.
S1 (17:18):
That's really interesting because the way you. Sort of spoke
about it. These weren't necessarily people well versed in self-care.
Not at all. Particularly like modern ideas of self care.
S3 (17:31):
Everyone had to get really warmed up to talk about
self care. Yeah, it wasn't it didn't come naturally. People
immediately went to. Talking to a counsellor or talking to
a professional about their mental health. That was like the
first thing people said. Some people said.
S1 (17:52):
Right, So there's a real. Real crossover or like maybe
there's confusion around the difference between self help and self care.
S3 (18:04):
I agree for a lot of people, I think yeah,
that's exactly, exactly it.
S1 (18:10):
That's really interesting. But I mean, going back to nature,
I think that that just shows how wired we are
for the healing power of nature as. As self care
know and any dose of nature and I write about
it in care a lot is is going to have
(18:31):
a positive impact. I mean even looking at a photo
of nature or listening to birdsong or being in a
room that has a view of a tree, they are
going to positively benefit us in a self care sense.
So actively seeking out moments of nature, even if they
are those tiny little ones or, you know, paying attention
(18:52):
to the grass when you're walking to the bus stop or,
you know, getting outside for five minutes and pulling weeds
or laying in the sun and listening to the sun on.
S3 (19:02):
Your face and yeah, eyes and yeah, mouth and face
and yeah, it's so important.
S1 (19:08):
Soaking it in, you know, in whatever capacity. It's it's
fascinating to me that people who didn't have any language
around self-care still highlighted the importance of nature.
S3 (19:18):
What about that walk that we did recently with our
kids that started off with at least one of them saying,
there's no way I want to do this. I don't
want to do this kicking and dragging for this. Nature walk,
you know, seven nature walk. And the conversations were just
(19:39):
so funny at the start of the walk. They were
all about. Talking about things, about tech, about gaming, about.
Social media like they were the topics. By KM five
it was Look at that flower. Look at the way
the the lights hitting those leaves. Look at this awesome
(20:02):
stick I've got you know it can carry like. Mm.
That's the power of it.
S1 (20:08):
Do you feel that when you go out into nature intentionally,
do you feel is there a point where things change
for you?
S3 (20:15):
Yeah. They click over. They it's it's. Yeah, it's very noticeable, actually.
S1 (20:22):
Like a decompression or something.
S3 (20:24):
Yeah.
S4 (20:26):
Yeah.
S3 (20:28):
Because I never really the senses just get over. It's
a with social media your senses can get. Bombarded, crazily
bombarded with just input after input after input. The similar
inputs in nature, if you like, slow down and just.
(20:50):
Take everything in the noise, the light, the the animals,
the the way that your legs are, you know, like
everything all the sensors just it's. It's loud. Like it's
a really loud noise. But for whatever reason, it's restorative. Restorative. Yes, it's. It's.
(21:14):
But I don't know. There's something different about nature and
and and I'm not just not saying it right, but
the noise in nature is quite loud if you allow it.
S1 (21:25):
Absolutely. And that's paying attention, Right? That's, you know, that's
actively noticing using all your senses. You become aware of
what's happening around you and inside you and to you
and because of you. And I think. While like social media,
for example, tech use is similarly stimulating, almost all of
(21:49):
that stimulation is happening from our neck up. We're not
physically feeling anything except maybe, you know, scrolling thumb, tired eyes, whatever. But.
Everything is coming in via our eyes and our ears,
and it's all happening in our heads. So it's a
(22:09):
totally different sense of overstimulation. And again, going back to
what happens when we are intentional with it. You know,
you start to recognize that decompression point when you're outside or,
you know that moment where your shoulders like, go relax. Yeah,
I always find like this kind of. If I go
(22:32):
out into the bush for a bush walk? And I'm
in a bad mood. I don't know, maybe ten minutes
in and I'm smiling like an idiot at the trees
and the flowers and the birds and, you know, stopping
to look at things. And it's just such a shift.
And it's so. Obvious. Every time I like never once
(22:53):
have I gone, Gee, I wish I didn't do that. Gee,
I regret going out and doing that. It never happens.
It never happens at once. Same with exercise or, you know,
anything like that. And I guess that's where going back
to your point about. Learning to be intentional with it.
(23:14):
That paired with the realization that these things are never wasted,
these these efforts to care for ourselves and never wasted
pair that with intentionality. That's where you start to build
a practice of self-care that really does leave you feeling
supported and cared for from within. I think.
S3 (23:34):
What if I ask you for your top three self-care habits? Rituals.
What would you how would you rank them and why?
S1 (23:43):
Rank. Oh, okay. I'm not going to rank them. That
makes me nervous. I don't know why. So the thing
that I will always, always come back to, aside from nature,
is journaling.
S3 (24:00):
Always because which is different to morning pages. When you
mean journaling, what are you actually?
S1 (24:05):
Journaling can mean so many different things.
S3 (24:07):
Okay, so what do you how do you journal then?
S1 (24:09):
So I often journal in a morning pages style. It
may not. It used to be a solid three pages.
Do not stop writing, do not ever go over or
under that. And that was building my practice that was recognizing.
S3 (24:24):
So hard to do. I've tried to do it and
it is really hard.
S1 (24:29):
Yes, it is. But to me it has been like
a complete. Kind of turning point over the years. And
I have come to know myself so incredibly well through
that process of morning pages simply because it is hard,
you know, yes, anyone can sit down and write surface
(24:52):
level stuff, you know, concerns or things that are going
on this week and why you're in a bad mood
or who said what pissed you off or that you
can anyone can do that for a page. Absolutely. Maybe two.
But it's not until you get to the end of
the second page. In my experience, that stuff starts to
come out and you're like, Where did you come from?
And I have learned so much about myself through that
(25:12):
exact process. And I think I think I'm now at
the point where I can shortcut to that. So journaling
is in essence, the same kind of approach stream of consciousness,
but I don't necessarily need to dig around for those
three pages. I often find myself where I kind of
knew I was headed, but not sure what I was
(25:34):
going to find. Much quicker than that. But sometimes journaling
is like writing a couple of paragraphs about, you know,
precisely how I'm feeling, and then I might shift into
a poem or that might be it, or it might be,
you know, a list of things, or it might, I
might end up writing about work or drafting out a
post like it's, it's not a. Cut and dried technique
(25:56):
for me anymore. But it's the thing I always come
back to. And if I get lost, if I'm stuck,
if I'm overwhelmed, if I'm everything else is too much,
I will always find myself back on the page. So
there's that. This gardening.
S3 (26:15):
Okay. Nature.
S1 (26:16):
Yeah. So being outside, hands in the dirt, feet, preferably barefooted,
you know, coming in tired. I've got a bit of a.
Strained relationship with that at the moment. Just with your energy. Yeah,
my energy. So up and down it has been. Not
completely missing, but I've had to completely rethink what it
(26:39):
looks like. And again, that's where I'm trying to take
my own advice of like not focusing on what it
looks like. So it used to be. You know, wait
and prepare this garden bed. That's what it would look
like and that would feel like success. Now it's like,
how do I want to feel? And I might feel
fulfilled or I might feel that exhausted kind of sensation
(27:03):
in my muscles after five minutes, or I might feel
like that's enough and that is enough. So the gardening.
And then okay, so I've got boring self care that
I would also classify as super important boring self.
S3 (27:21):
Yeah. Okay.
S1 (27:22):
That's things like taking my supplements, making sure I'm taking
my medication, drinking enough water, not having coffee after lunchtime. Well, that's.
S3 (27:30):
Just setting yourself up for success.
S1 (27:32):
But that's self-care. Yeah, that is self-care. You know, you're
caring for yourself so that you can feel, well, mentally, physically, emotionally.
Which means that you can then. Move through your day
in a much more positive way. No matter what it
throws at you, you know, And that like that is self-care.
It doesn't have to leave you with this glowing sensation
(27:55):
of of, you know, self righteousness or something. It's just
looking after yourself. So going to bed, getting, trying to
get eight hours sleep every night, moving when I can,
I would classify. A connection with other people is somewhere between.
(28:16):
Boring is the wrong word, almost begrudging self-care and really
powerful self-care. Because I'm. I'm very introverted and have often
joked that I would probably be a hermit if left
my own devices. That's not good for me. I know that.
So ensuring I connect with people. Is really important as well.
S3 (28:40):
That's a good three.
S1 (28:41):
Yeah, I feel like there was about 17 in there,
but thank you. Do you have any that you would
classify as. Kind of top tier for you?
S3 (28:51):
Yeah. So physically, like moving. Exercising. It's the big one
for me and something I've only really developed and prioritized
over the last maybe 3 or 4 years. But it
is so important. Feeling healthy. It's just it's a really
(29:14):
nice feeling to be able to feel, to say, Yeah,
I'm feeling healthy, I'm feeling the best I can be
at the moment. And I think exercise goes a long
way of supporting that from a physical sense and mental.
I guess the other one is yeah, talking to other
(29:34):
people about. In just having this conversation, for example, is
a is a form of self-care. Having interesting conversations with people. Just. Yeah,
really works for me. And that's probably because I'm a
bit more of an extrovert than you are. I don't
know what I am. I think you're I don't have
(29:55):
a label, but that to me is. Really important for
for my emotional and mental state. And the third one
is an interesting one. I'm going to have to say
nature again, just being outside, taking those, whether it's ten
minutes at lunchtime, just to be outside in whatever weather,
(30:20):
just feel like I'm connecting on another level that is
not tech.
S1 (30:27):
Yep. So, you know, what about chopping firewood? Could you
could you find a way to make that a self-care moment? Yeah.
S3 (30:37):
As long as I pay attention to where the blade is.
S1 (30:39):
Yeah, please do. Please do.
S3 (30:42):
Don't turn off.
S1 (30:43):
Completely. No, but that's it. I think it's interesting that you.
You thought you have to turn off. It's actually turning on.
S3 (30:50):
Just a different part of your brain.
S1 (30:51):
Yeah. Yeah. But it's paying closer attention to what you're doing.
It's not going into some dreamland in your mind where
you're detached, but it's actually the opposite. I think of that.
It's becoming like reattached to what you're doing because most
of your work, for example, is. Again from the neck up.
(31:12):
You know, you do a lot of talking, a lot
of thinking, a lot of writing. So, you know, using
that trip out to the shed and the ten minutes
of chopping wood a day as a something you got
to do anyway. Yeah. It's like a ritual, a moment
where you can shift into a different mode of being
(31:34):
for a little while. It's so interesting.
S3 (31:35):
Being in an office at which I am sometimes and.
S1 (31:40):
Like an actual office with actual people, other people.
S3 (31:42):
Within it, in the office. And after lunch you can
tell the people that have left the office and you
can tell the people that stayed at the office to
have lunch.
S1 (31:52):
Okay. In what way? In what way?
S3 (31:55):
Well, sometimes people are wet because it was raining. No, Because.
People look brighter and happier when they've been out. Even
if they ate lunch and just went for a walk
or whatever, you could tell people that have got up,
(32:17):
moved around, move their bodies gone outside. They just seem
more clear headed. They're friendlier to approach. It's really strange,
I know, but I. Give me a cross-section of people
and I'll be able to tell which ones have been
outside for lunch or just taking some time for themselves
(32:38):
away from their desks.
S1 (32:39):
I wonder if that's huge, if that's partly like getting
out into the sunshine. That's what, you know, getting. So
I think they talk about when you're on a screen
all day to have breaks. Yes. For movement, but also
for your eyes. Yeah.
S3 (32:54):
So giving your eyes.
S1 (32:55):
A yeah and.
S3 (32:57):
Focus break because it's that it's that like 30 centimeter.
S1 (33:01):
That's right.
S3 (33:02):
Focus.
S1 (33:03):
So it's sort of looking out into the distance. And
if you can find something in the distance that is
green or that is, you know, water or like an
open piece of.
S3 (33:13):
Space or whatever it is, yeah.
S1 (33:15):
Even better. Yeah. So, you know, that could be part
of it as well.
S3 (33:19):
Yeah, I think so. I think that's that is.
S1 (33:25):
What's something that you. Would like to improve with your self-care. Mhm.
S3 (33:44):
It's a good question. I've always wanted to meditate. Of
really wanted to try. And I have given it a
good go. But for whatever reason, I can't seem to
develop that ritual. I'd like to do some more inwardly
focused self-care. That That to me is something that I'd
(34:10):
like to focus on. It can't be journaling, though. It's
got to be just sitting and maybe it is meditating,
sitting with my thoughts. Such an uncomfortable thing to do.
S1 (34:24):
Yeah.
S3 (34:26):
But I. I mean, I've seen people that have been
meditating and they're like crying with, like, joy and happiness.
I want that. Looks great.
S1 (34:40):
Mm. Okay. I think you should investigate.
S5 (34:48):
Well.
S1 (34:49):
I'm not well versed in meditation. Like I have found
something that works for me. I dip in and out
of it. There are so many different ways to meditate.
So it's a matter, I think, for you of finding
something that. It speaks to that thing that you want,
that that feeling that you want of, you know, that
(35:10):
joyful like I don't know what that would be.
S3 (35:14):
Because I've done the. Insight timer and yeah, you know,
all those sorts of meditation. Maybe it's having to go
to a group meditation, maybe.
S1 (35:25):
Yeah.
S3 (35:26):
For some reason I do like group environments.
S5 (35:30):
Yep.
S1 (35:30):
The only time I have ever cried during meditation was
during a group.
S3 (35:34):
Really?
S1 (35:34):
Yeah. It was at the end of yoga. Yeah. Yeah,
it was like a.
S3 (35:39):
Endorphin.
S1 (35:39):
Rush. No, it was like a physical release of emotional. Tension.
S3 (35:47):
Want that? That sounds great.
S1 (35:50):
It was. Of pudding. To be honest, it came out
of nowhere.
S3 (35:57):
Yeah. Which that's exactly how it's supposed to work. Sure.
S1 (36:01):
Yeah. I'd never experienced it before. To me, it's always
meditation has always been a much. Yeah, I was going
to say gentler. Especially in the beginning. Like it's it's
a it's frustrating. Meditation is frustrating.
S3 (36:18):
For me and the way I am at the moment.
I'd love a clear head. My head just feels so
full all the time.
S1 (36:23):
I think that's probably why I always suggest journaling to
you because it is literally.
S5 (36:29):
I can't.
S1 (36:29):
Put. But you do because you do work like you
do morning pages and you do brain dumping.
S3 (36:33):
I've done it. I have done morning pages and I
do brain dumping works. I know it works. And I
do that on an almost a daily occurrence. But I
feel like that's different to a stream of conscience morning
pages thing where you were writing literally anything.
S1 (36:49):
Oh, yeah, absolutely different, I feel.
S3 (36:53):
Really uncomfortable in my head when I do that.
S1 (36:57):
God, I'd love to, like, crack your brain open and
walk around in it for a bit.
S5 (37:05):
Mixed metaphors.
S1 (37:06):
Wouldn't that be cool, though, to be? I don't know.
Would it be cool to be able to do that? Like.
S3 (37:11):
Of often said with you and the way in your
medical issue. I just like I would love to live
just as you for one day just so I and
I do empathize, but I want to feel it like
I want to be able to. Really feel it.
S5 (37:28):
And yeah, I get it.
S1 (37:30):
I get it. Yeah.
S3 (37:35):
So I guess I need to throw that question back
to you. What do you want to improve on? What
would you like to be able to do when it
comes to self-care?
S1 (37:44):
I mean, the thing that I would love to be
able to get back to is a more regular approach
to movement and exercise. You know, up until probably 12
months ago, maybe, maybe not even beginning of this year.
I was sort of. In a pretty good place with.
Training and walking, and I would lift weights 2 or
(38:07):
3 times a week and nothing crazy, but.
S3 (38:10):
You're just moving and you're but.
S1 (38:12):
Moving intentionally and challenging. Myself.
S3 (38:14):
You were. Yeah.
S1 (38:16):
And it was regular and it felt good and I
felt cared for and I felt supported from within. And
I had that feeling that you described of, you know,
that positive feeling of health fullness. And then everything took
a dive a few months ago and I've had to stop. Like,
I will go to training with you, but I can't
do anything. I mean, I couldn't even.
S3 (38:36):
Get stretch You do stretch, you're moving, you do.
S1 (38:39):
Move. And that's what I was going to say. So.
I move every day in some capacity. I will come
out into the back room during lunch break or, you know,
when I'm taking a break from my computer and stretch.
I still do stretches when I'm waiting for the coffee
to brew. I do things to move my body and
I wear an aura ring which will alert me if
(39:02):
I've been sitting still for an hour or longer. So
I always tap into that, you know, and. Make sure
I get up, drink a lot of water so that
I go to the bathroom. Like even things like that,
it helps.
S3 (39:15):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
S1 (39:16):
So I guess in an ideal world, I'd love to
get back to training the way that I was, but
I think. It's about building some more of those micro
moments of movement into my day very intentionally. And I
think that would would be of benefit to me physically,
but also mentally.
S5 (39:39):
Yeah, I like.
S3 (39:40):
The macro micro breakdown of self-care.
S1 (39:43):
Yeah. And that's, that's really important because I think we
lose the idea that the tiny little moments can be
just as powerful, particularly if we apply them consistently.
S3 (39:54):
That's the thing that I need to work on.
S5 (39:56):
Micro self-care.
S1 (39:57):
Yeah. And even doing the things that you already do
through the lens of self-care.
S5 (40:04):
Chopping wood. Yeah, self-care, drinking.
S1 (40:07):
Water.
S3 (40:08):
Self-care.
S1 (40:09):
Going to bed early.
S5 (40:10):
Oh, wonderful. It is.
S1 (40:12):
Wonderful. But, you know, if you can file that away
in your head as another way, you're caring for yourself
every day it feels different. It doesn't just feel like
nice or like luxurious. Like you almost seem to think
that it's a treat, you know? It's actually you caring
for yourself. And that. That reframe, I think makes a
(40:33):
huge difference. And it also takes away the bullshit of
self care because there is so much of it, right?
We spoke about a few months back, there was the
wellness and social media episode. It's so easy to talk
self care and end up down there.
S3 (40:47):
Oh yeah.
S5 (40:48):
Massively.
S1 (40:49):
It really is. And it just doesn't have to be
to me. Self care should and is accessible to everybody.
S3 (40:55):
Self care is free.
S1 (40:57):
Absolutely. There are things that you can buy and do
and pay for that might help you facilitate your own
self care or learn about it. Fine. I have no
problem with that. But it is and should be accessible
to everybody. To everyone and everybody. So, you know, I
think that that's. Why those micro moments can be so
(41:20):
helpful and powerful, You know, and what I'd encourage people
to do, I guess, is if you're listening to this
and you've got a few ideas coming to you for
what tiny moments of self-care could look like for you,
those moments that make you feel supported and cared for.
Write them down like take five minutes. Make a list
as long as you can of any tiny thing that
(41:41):
makes you feel good and refer to it on any
given day. You know, if you give yourself three 32nd
blocks of self-care time or something, what can you do
from that list? And I think sometimes taking the brain
work out of it means that on the days where
we really need it, but we think we don't have time,
we can just look at that list and go, okay,
(42:02):
I'll do that.
S3 (42:02):
That's me. That's me today.
S5 (42:05):
Okay.
S3 (42:05):
Really good advice.
S1 (42:09):
Not advice.
S5 (42:11):
Encouragement lesson.
S1 (42:14):
So I guess one of the reasons that I wanted
to do the self care topic today was a, because
it felt very. Relevant to you at the moment. I
know that you've been under the pump and I wanted
to talk about it and be over on the tortoise.
(42:36):
I hadn't realized I was doing this until last term,
but because I write in sort of ten week blocks
and take a couple of weeks off. Each of the
terms of writing have had their own kind of loose theme.
And the theme for this current block of ten weeks
is self care. So that does fit in really nicely.
(43:00):
And I think that subconsciously I selected that as a
topic because I needed it to and to really, I guess,
reframe what it can mean because it's really easy when
you go through a change in your circumstances to lose
sight of what self-care is to you. And I think
I'm probably rebuilding a new version of it for myself,
(43:23):
which definitely includes writing. Which is the other reason I
wanted to bring this topic up. So as part of
the Tortoise for paying subscribers, I run an online retreat
every quarter. So first quarter of the year, I did
a values retreat. Second quarter was rhythms. And in this
(43:43):
quarter I'm actually doing a retreat called Writing as self-care.
So if that's something that interests anyone listening, you can
head over to the tortoise, which is at Brooke McAlary Substack.
Com And you can sign up as a paying subscriber.
It's $5 a month or $50 a year Australian And
(44:05):
you can join us regardless.
S5 (44:08):
Join the community.
S1 (44:08):
Yeah, join the community. Absolutely. You will get, you know,
most Sundays you'll get a post for paying subscribers. Every Thursday.
Everyone gets a post and it's usually a letter or
a podcast episode, something practical or something. Um, a little
bit more. Head heavy. I'm running out of good words.
S5 (44:32):
Head, heavy. Head.
S1 (44:33):
Heavy. You know, all up in my head. Yeah. So, anyway,
if the. Writing a self-care topic interests you. You should
go and check it out. Say hello and see what
the tortoise is all about.
S3 (44:47):
You're a good teacher. Now, you had a reflection for us.
S5 (44:52):
Yes.
S3 (44:52):
For today's.
S1 (44:53):
Episode. The reflection section.
S3 (44:55):
The reflection?
S5 (44:59):
Yeah, the reflection section.
S1 (45:01):
So a few weeks back, I wrote a post about
toxic positivity, which seemed to really. Um, interest. A lot of.
S5 (45:12):
People did it grind.
S3 (45:13):
People's gears?
S1 (45:14):
I don't think so. I think toxic positivity grinds people's gears.
So it was, it was interesting to see people kind
of reflect very broadly on their own experiences and their
own challenges of dealing with toxic positivity, either their own
or other people's. Uh, but one comment in particular sort
(45:34):
of grabbed my attention from Holly, and I'm just going
to read it because I have been thinking about it
a lot since she, um, since she submitted it. She said,
I find when I'm trying to console or just go
through my own negative emotions, I struggle with this balance
of letting myself feel the negativity without wallowing in it
(45:58):
and trying to be resilient against it, but without denying
my rights to feel sad. You briefly mentioned that resilience
and a positive attitude has a place, but I'd be
interested in what you mean by this and how not
to get it confused with suppressing emotions.
S3 (46:15):
Oh, it's so such an interesting.
S5 (46:17):
Comment, Such.
S1 (46:18):
A good question.
S3 (46:19):
Resilience is such a loaded word.
S1 (46:22):
Why do you say that?
S5 (46:23):
It just.
S3 (46:23):
Is. It just is because it is very individualistic in
terms of. People's. Capacity to be resilient and it can
so easily. Depending on the individual. Really harm people over
(46:43):
a long period of time.
S1 (46:46):
Yeah. No.
S3 (46:47):
She just pushed through things no matter what. And you
have this. Head heavy state where it's you are, no
matter what the circumstances, you push through and you are
blunting yourself emotionally. Mentally.
S1 (47:10):
And the flow on effects of that can be enormous.
S5 (47:13):
Huge.
S1 (47:15):
Yeah, it's a really. Tricky topic, I suppose, because. I
think that resilience is important. I think having a certain
amount of grit and. Inner strength is really important. But
what I think resilience has started to come to mean in,
(47:37):
you know, the mainstream. And this so often happens when
an idea or a topic becomes popularized. It gets diluted
or or. More kind of black and white. At same
thing happen with like mindfulness or, you know, self like wellness,
(47:59):
that kind of stuff. They've all been. Co-opted and.
S3 (48:04):
Commoditized.
S5 (48:04):
Yet?
S1 (48:05):
Exactly. And to the point where we don't necessarily completely
know what the word means when we're using it. We
think we do, but maybe it's not.
S3 (48:13):
And we use it often. They're just so often used.
S1 (48:16):
Yeah. So it's almost like it's.
S5 (48:17):
Lost its.
S1 (48:19):
Meaning, but. For me when I hear resilience. I think
what what what a lot of us think it's trying
to say is toughen up. Yeah. And tough it out
and stick through it. That's it. Through. Yeah. Whereas the
way I see resilience is actually softening into something, you know,
the resilience comes from an inner place rather than an
(48:42):
external shell that allows us to push through. And I
don't know if that's. True or not. I like.
S3 (48:50):
That. I like the shell part.
S1 (48:52):
Yeah.
S3 (48:52):
So everyone needs that protection. Yes, but people have got
to be more like a. Like a soft shelled crab.
S5 (49:04):
Rather than.
S3 (49:05):
A. Lobster.
S1 (49:09):
Oh, we stuck with the crustaceans.
S5 (49:12):
Yeah. Love lobster.
S1 (49:16):
Yeah. Okay. So I do I do think, though, that
there's something in that. Crustacean analogy. You know, what can
we do to. Develop an inner strength rather than an
external shell. Yeah, or too much of an external shell.
(49:40):
I think you're right. We need to. We need to
be able to protect ourselves to a certain extent from.
You know, the inevitable pushing through that happens in life
because sometimes we just have to. But if that becomes
our only mechanism for coping with difficult things as pushing through,
(50:00):
then I don't think anything gets in and we can't reflect,
we can't absorb, we can't really meet our selves in
that space. So I think that a positive attitude is
a different thing again, though. And I think that if
you're able to pair a positive attitude, which is not
sunshine and roses and everything's going to be fine, to me,
(50:23):
a positive attitude is like, Oh yeah, this sucks, but
I'm here with you or this sucks, but.
S5 (50:28):
It's more of.
S3 (50:29):
A just a healthy attitude, right? Because it's not necessarily. Yeah.
Positive situation.
S1 (50:34):
No, that's it. And it's not the situation. It's. Oh, like.
I was going to say hope or optimism. And sometimes
they're not even relevant, right? Because some situations you don't
have any. It's just a matter of meeting yourself where
you are. Yeah. But I think. For me, resilience is
(50:58):
mostly achieved personally through. Letting things be what they are,
whether that is hard or soft or, you know, difficult
or easy. And allowing that to be the case, particularly
in the instance of difficult things going, okay, this is hard.
This is really hard, This hurts. I'm in pain. I'm struggling,
(51:23):
I'm grieving. I'm, you know, afraid, whatever. And just softening
into that. Not trying to change it. And for me,
that kind of helps in multiple ways. It almost reduces the.
(51:43):
Amount of time I spend in that space. Because it
reduces the pressure around it or something. I don't I
don't know. I can kind of picture it, but I
can't use the words trying to reflect about when my
dad was in hospital and we just allowed things to.
S5 (52:00):
Suck to be.
S1 (52:01):
And they sucked. But they also didn't because we laughed
a lot. And I think that if I had tried
to tell myself that it didn't suck and everything was
going to be fine, just.
S3 (52:10):
That positive, toxic positivity.
S1 (52:12):
Then we wouldn't have laughed because.
S3 (52:14):
You would just be living a non.
S5 (52:19):
Credible way.
S3 (52:21):
Of living.
S1 (52:21):
Just be in that shell.
S5 (52:23):
It's not.
S3 (52:23):
You. Yeah.
S1 (52:25):
Anyway, I think it's such a great question.
S3 (52:27):
It's a huge it's a huge question. It probably requires
more than what we've given it. But it is such
an interesting premise, and that's what happens when you brand something.
And that branding. Just gets used so much that it
loses its actual meaning and its actual purpose.
S6 (52:52):
Hmm.
S3 (52:55):
I want to go back to self-help really quickly. Care sorry, self-care.
I want to go back to self-care really quickly. So
just thought of something that I really want to try.
And that's and I've done it before, but some sort
of martial arts that combines mental and physical.
S5 (53:16):
Health.
S3 (53:19):
The limited amount that I've done it, I feel like
it really benefited me. So that's another one to add
to the list.
S5 (53:27):
Okay.
S3 (53:28):
A martial arts and meditation.
S1 (53:33):
Okay. What I will say before we finish up, they're
both things that take time. No, no, I'm all for it. Like,
take that time. Yeah. Is there anything I suppose we
already spoke about, you know, ritual izing, things that you
already do and reflecting on them as being.
S5 (53:47):
I need to.
S3 (53:48):
Reframe those as forms of self-care and be easier on myself.
S5 (53:53):
Yes, please.
S3 (53:53):
Yeah. Please think over overall.
S5 (53:57):
Uh, yeah.
S1 (53:59):
Yeah, I guess that's maybe the takeaway. If we can
all reflect on the ways that we care for ourselves already.
And we all do in loads of different ways, all day,
every day and take a bit of pride in that. Yeah.
And that might just be the thing that we need
to do in order to reframe it, as you said.
(54:19):
And when we start paying attention to things, we have
to do them more. You know? Yeah, we do. Yeah.
S5 (54:25):
Yeah.
S1 (54:25):
So if you start paying attention to how you breathe,
for example, and you're like, I'm just going to take
a big, deep breath. And see how that feels and
you pay attention to it throughout the day. You're going
to do more of it. Yeah. So maybe that's that's
the takeaway is, is first of all, just start by
making a list of all the ways that we do
care for ourselves.
S3 (54:44):
Because often it's a lot more than you even realize. Yeah.
S5 (54:48):
All right. Thanks for the chat.
S1 (54:49):
Thank you for the chat. You know, I've got to
be honest, I was. It's been a day. And I was.
S3 (54:56):
Nervous about how we would.
S5 (54:58):
Yeah.
S1 (54:59):
Wondering if we could bring the bring the right energy
to the.
S5 (55:02):
I think we have Mike.
S1 (55:03):
Yeah, I think so.
S3 (55:05):
Hope you have enjoyed it. Dear listener. Thank you once
again for all those that have left comments and reviews
on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get this podcast from.
Very much appreciated. And also over on the Tortoise, the
the comments, it's essentially what drives us to keep going.
S1 (55:27):
Oh, 100%.
S5 (55:29):
Like.
S3 (55:29):
The feedback. I don't read it. But Brooke. Often says, Oh,
listen to this, and that just fills my cup. And that's,
I'd say 50% of why I do this.
S1 (55:41):
That external validation.
S5 (55:42):
Yeah, it's important.
S1 (55:43):
You know what? And it comes from community, right?
S3 (55:46):
That's it.
S1 (55:46):
That's it. It comes from.
S5 (55:47):
People being.
S3 (55:48):
Valued.
S1 (55:49):
Yeah. And also, you know, just being surrounded in an
Internet sense by, by a group of people who get
it and they're wanting to ask the same questions and
have the same conversations. And, you know, we're all exploring.
What living outside the status quo looks like. In any
(56:09):
given moment, you know, in lots of different tiny ways.
It's really is what I think this podcast is kind
of becoming about.
S3 (56:16):
It's all about.
S1 (56:17):
Questioning things and looking at the possibilities of what Slo
can be.
S3 (56:30):
And I hope that this podcast has been a form
of self-care. Absolutely. In a very meta universe way.
S1 (56:41):
So head on over to the tortoise to read the
show notes for today's episode. So that's Brooklyn calorie.substack.com. And
if you're interested in joining us for the writing. A
self-care retreat. You can do that over there as well.
In the meantime, though. Take good care of yourself.
UU (57:02):
And we'll see you soon.
This is the tortoise. The podcast, all about the possibilities
of slow. I am your host, Brooke McAlary, and I
am joined by my marriage host Ben McAlary.
S2 (00:18):
Well.
S3 (00:20):
That's really sci fi.
S1 (00:23):
That's always kind of weird, isn't it?
S3 (00:26):
This is not a podcast. This is a podcast. Sorry.
You'll get it one day. Yeah. I'm going pretty well. I'm.
I'm particularly stressed today. There's a lot of deadlines. There's
a lot happening in work life for both of us.
And we're tilting extremely. Almost to a vertical. We're like
(00:52):
sliding off the slippery. Let's be honest.
S1 (00:54):
Slippery dip. Seesaw.
S3 (00:55):
Seesaw. So. My energy is. Probably a little bit distracted,
but it's perfect for this topic because this topic is
all about talking about self-care and it's something that I
really need to practice right now. So I'm yeah, I'm
(01:16):
looking forward to, to having a chat with you.
S1 (01:19):
I think it's going to be a good one.
S3 (01:21):
Well, let's get into it.
S1 (01:21):
All right. So do you have a definition for self-care,
like how you would define it for yourself?
S3 (01:30):
It was International Self-care Day probably about a month ago.
And I've got a group of men that I sit
with once a month and we discuss self-care during that
particular night. And it was so interesting to hear everyone's.
(01:54):
Definition of what self-care is and. Everyone kept coming back
to this is self-care. Sitting around a table, having a
discussion that's not about footy and shit. That's just about
how we're feeling, how we're going. Our mental state just
(02:16):
talking about other stuff. And everyone kept coming back to
saying like, this is one of the things that I
do for self-care.
S1 (02:25):
Interesting.
S3 (02:26):
Yeah. So it's having real discussion. Real conversation. So that's,
I guess, one of the definitions of it.
S1 (02:38):
Well, or is that one example?
S3 (02:40):
That's that's an example. You're right. That's a that's an
example of it. I was just.
S1 (02:44):
Curious because it means so much to like so many
different things to everybody.
S3 (02:49):
Yeah. I struggle a little bit with self care in
the way that you've written about it previously. Whether that is.
And I do try a lot of things when it
comes to self-care. Some things I think work better than others.
But do you have a definition of self-care?
S1 (03:10):
No, not really. I sort of had a look around
because it's actually quite tricky to come up with a
succinct definition, but it's essentially, you know, you look online,
there's many different versions of kind of a similarly themed definition,
which is something along the lines of referring to activities
(03:33):
that preserve I'm reading this one that preserve and maintain
one's physical, emotional and mental health.
S3 (03:40):
Oh, okay.
S1 (03:42):
It's an ongoing commitment to look after yourself through helpful
behaviors that protect your health during periods of stress, as
well as an additional kind of element to that. And
that one I quite liked because it's very broad.
S3 (03:55):
I like the three categories physical, emotional and mental. Yes.
So the sitting around with other men. Talking, sharing a
meal for me that's like emotional. Oh, yeah. More. More
so than mental. But I guess they're kind of intertwined.
(04:16):
Because I was going to say, the physical self-care that
I like is exercising and having a regular exercising schedule.
My mental and emotional state deteriorate if I don't do
the physical exercise. So can and I guess that's how
(04:38):
they're all interlinked is Yeah. Making sure that you're. Yeah,
they all relate to one. Yeah. Yeah.
S1 (04:45):
I don't think I think in the practices you can
certainly separate them out and have, you know, as you said,
maybe exercise or regular movement is something that you would
categorize yourself as physical self-care. But I think it's really
difficult to kind of separate them completely and have them
in their own silos because, you know, what we do
(05:05):
physically impacts our mental health, which impacts our emotional health.
You can't you can't fully separate them out. Yeah. The
other thing that I don't know if you would have
considered it, but it's part of certainly part of my,
I guess, definition or the way I try and think
about and practice self-care is that there are some elements
(05:26):
or examples of self-care that are external facing. So things
like your gathering of men where you talk and you know,
or it could be catching up with a friend or
talking to a family member or just a wave to
a stranger, whatever, you know, kind of connection or a
random act of kindness, something like that. They're all what
(05:48):
I would classify as sort of outward facing. And then
you've got inward facing. So that's more your the stuff
that I'm I'm probably more drawn to just because I'm
super introverted journaling and meditation and solitude and creativity and
that kind of stuff. So it's been helpful for me
(06:08):
to recognize that there going to be times where, um,
those external or outward facing types of self care might
feel more draining than others, and it may be not
what I need right now. So if I'm feeling burnt
out or over socialized, then perhaps going and hanging out
with a group of people is not going to make
(06:31):
me feel supported from within. It might still be good
for me, but it may not tick that self-care box
at that time. And that's where I might need to
turn inward and find a practice that helps me feel
supported from within and cared for from within. And I
guess that's really how I classify self-care, feeling supported or
cared for from within.
S3 (06:51):
Okay. So that that's your definition of self-care.
S1 (06:55):
I think that's how I can. Sort of quickly quantify
whether or not I'm doing a decent enough job of it.
Do I feel cared for from within?
S3 (07:05):
So this is what I was kind of referring to
at the start, is that I can't or don't have the.
Smarts to be able to tap into that sort of self.
Self care. The the inwardly focused self care.
S1 (07:26):
Well, maybe you don't need it though either.
S3 (07:29):
And so is a personality based, do you think? I
don't know. I guess I don't ever want.
S1 (07:33):
I don't want people to feel bad about like, doing
or not doing certain types of self care. That's all I.
S3 (07:37):
Know. It's very individualized. That's obvious.
S1 (07:42):
What I will say is for you, I think. I
think you probably. Would benefit from some of those more
like interfacing practices, but maybe haven't found ones that suit
you yet. You have tried meditation and you know, you'll
occasionally say, Yeah, this is really.
S3 (08:01):
Yeah.
S1 (08:02):
Good for me.
S3 (08:03):
It's just part of my routine.
S1 (08:05):
And see, that's it. So is it not helping you
because it's not part of your routine or is it
not helping you because it doesn't really fulfill you in
that way? It's interesting. I think that I'm probably more
well-practiced in those, those like self reflection sort of. You know,
moments through journaling and just being like an A grade
(08:28):
Overthinker and that's not necessarily you. So. Yeah, I don't know. But,
I mean, I've often said to you when you're going
through periods of stress. Why don't you try this strategy like,
you know, morning pages or meditation or, you know, a
really simple mindfulness practice or something like that. And you
(08:50):
might do it once and you'll be like, Yeah, it
was good. And then that's it.
S3 (08:53):
Morning Pages. I do do a similar it's not morning
pages as you do it where. Yeah, sure. State of conscience.
S1 (09:02):
Stream like a stream.
S3 (09:02):
Of conscience flow state where you just writing anything and
everything and if you can't think of anything to write,
you write. I can't think of anything to write, which
is kind of cool. But I, I do a similar
activity where I just brain dump. It's, it doesn't necessarily
make a whole heap of sense, but it does give
(09:26):
me an idea of what are my priorities today work wise,
family wise. And self like self care wise, I guess
to an extent because I use. Like physical exercise as
part of that. And. Yeah. Yeah. Our dog is building
(09:51):
a cubby house.
S1 (09:53):
Dreams of some sort of doggie fort, which is nice.
That might be what he needs. He's having some self-care moments. Um.
S3 (10:01):
Yeah. So that's the morning pages. So I do I
do get the benefit of that. And you've spoken about
Morning pages. What would you I guess what would your
advice be to someone that. Is typically saying, Well, I
don't have time for self-care in the more traditional sense
of self care, because that's where often I find myself
(10:21):
and that'll be my excuse. I'm not meditating because I
don't have the time.
S1 (10:26):
Yeah, I think I don't like advice. I don't like
giving advice so much, But something that I do often
find myself referring back to is changing your focus on.
The outcome. So I find that when we talk about anything,
it could be creative. It could be creativity, it could
(10:49):
be self care, it could be movement, whatever. Um, we
so often focus on how it looks, right? So for you,
you just mentioned I don't meditate. I don't do these
things that you've decided that that's what self-care looks like, right?
It looks like meditation. It looks like, um, you know, mindfulness.
(11:11):
It looks like morning pages. It looks like whatever. Refocusing
our attention on how it feels. So finding your own
definition of self-care. For me, it's that again. Feeling cared
for from within and supported from within. So not getting
(11:31):
that validation or that sense of nurturing from someone else,
but from myself. And if I can find what that
feels like, if it's a physical sensation, if it's an
emotional response, uh, and try and then find things that
will offer that in really small bite sized pieces. So
(11:53):
like I view certain, some things that really weird little things,
I view them as self-care because for whatever reason I
feel cared for when I do them.
S3 (12:00):
Like, okay, well let's give some examples because this fascinates me.
S1 (12:04):
So clearing the kitchen bench before I go to bed.
I mean, we'll have a cup of tea after we've
cleaned up, right? And for ages we would just put
we don't have a dishwasher in our house because it's old.
So we would just put our teacups on the kitchen
bench and be. They'll be there in the morning. We'll
clean them up then. I didn't realize, but that kind
(12:26):
of really frustrated me. So just washing them up and dry, like,
you know, drying them or putting them in the sink
so I can't even see them. That feels like self-care
because I get up in the morning and it's a
clear space. Like that's a ridiculous thing, but it feels
like self-care. Same with opening the curtains every morning. I
(12:47):
find that ritual and I call it a ritual in
my head, which might be something to consider as well.
That ritual of opening the of opening the curtains greeting
the day feels really grounding and centering. And it's just
a tiny little moment for me that I would be
doing anyway. But I've found it to be a shortcut
(13:09):
to that sense of feeling cared for or supported from within. Weird.
I know. Um, having. So I have to take a
tablet first thing in the morning when I wake up.
I get that out the night before and have it
next to my bed with a glass of water that
feels like self-care, taking my supplements, that is self-care, that
(13:30):
is literally self-care. But I treat it as a moment
of supporting myself and caring for myself rather than some
thing that I have to do that I have to take.
S3 (13:42):
Because you spoke. So you're just speaking about rituals slash habits?
S1 (13:46):
Sure. Yeah. And in part it's it's reframing those things.
So you were talking about not having time. So I
guess there's a way of maybe shortcutting that's finding things
that offer you a shortcut to that sense of feeling
cared for as your, you know, your bare minimum rituals
or habits of self-care. You look perplexed.
S3 (14:17):
I'm interested. Because if I was to because I love
writing down what I need to do in a day,
and if I start writing in those habitual, maybe self
care orientated things, they would just be part of that list.
So that's sort of one way. Instead of it being
(14:39):
a subconscious thing, it needs to be actually planned for.
S1 (14:43):
Oh yeah, you can't like until these things become second
nature like deeply ingrained second nature. You have to be
intentional about it, like, and I.
S3 (14:52):
Think that's the biggest barrier for me.
S1 (14:55):
It's a practice and that you call it a practice
for a reason, you know, And I will fall in
and out of practices all the time. Up until about
six months ago, I had a solid self-care ritual in
the morning that was, you know, get up, put the
coffee on stretch, pour coffee, come and sit out in
the back room, write in my journal, drink my coffee, meditate, write.
(15:19):
You know, all they were all part of my morning
self-care ritual until about six months ago. And then I
realized that just because of where my health is at
the moment, the best self-care I can give myself in
the mornings is actually to sleep for the extra hour.
So that's what I've been doing, you know? So you
fall in and out of them all the time, but
it's to me. I don't know that we clock the
(15:45):
the care that we're giving ourselves unless we're doing it intentionally.
So you could be like going through all the motions
and you do you prioritize sleep, you prioritize good nutrition,
you prioritize movement, you prioritize connection. And it's interesting to
me that you don't see any of those things as
self-care because maybe you haven't clocked them as an intentional
(16:06):
choice to care for yourself.
S3 (16:09):
I agree with that. I really agree with that. Going
back to the men's table that I'm involved in and
the different themes that came up during the topic of
self care, one of the biggest. In fact, I think
every single person spoke about it. And we're talking about
like an intergenerational table here from, Yeah, 80 year olds
(16:30):
down to to younger adults. And it was nature. Being
in nature and connecting with nature, whether that's bushwalkers, mountain biking.
Every man. Said that as nature is so important because
(16:53):
inevitably the topic got on to tech and tech usage
and being addicted to phones and devices and always on
always connected to step away from that connected world. Is
a is a really, really important. Thing to do in
(17:15):
regards to self-care.
S1 (17:18):
That's really interesting because the way you. Sort of spoke
about it. These weren't necessarily people well versed in self-care.
Not at all. Particularly like modern ideas of self care.
S3 (17:31):
Everyone had to get really warmed up to talk about
self care. Yeah, it wasn't it didn't come naturally. People
immediately went to. Talking to a counsellor or talking to
a professional about their mental health. That was like the
first thing people said. Some people said.
S1 (17:52):
Right, So there's a real. Real crossover or like maybe
there's confusion around the difference between self help and self care.
S3 (18:04):
I agree for a lot of people, I think yeah,
that's exactly, exactly it.
S1 (18:10):
That's really interesting. But I mean, going back to nature,
I think that that just shows how wired we are
for the healing power of nature as. As self care
know and any dose of nature and I write about
it in care a lot is is going to have
(18:31):
a positive impact. I mean even looking at a photo
of nature or listening to birdsong or being in a
room that has a view of a tree, they are
going to positively benefit us in a self care sense.
So actively seeking out moments of nature, even if they
are those tiny little ones or, you know, paying attention
(18:52):
to the grass when you're walking to the bus stop or,
you know, getting outside for five minutes and pulling weeds
or laying in the sun and listening to the sun on.
S3 (19:02):
Your face and yeah, eyes and yeah, mouth and face
and yeah, it's so important.
S1 (19:08):
Soaking it in, you know, in whatever capacity. It's it's
fascinating to me that people who didn't have any language
around self-care still highlighted the importance of nature.
S3 (19:18):
What about that walk that we did recently with our
kids that started off with at least one of them saying,
there's no way I want to do this. I don't
want to do this kicking and dragging for this. Nature walk,
you know, seven nature walk. And the conversations were just
(19:39):
so funny at the start of the walk. They were
all about. Talking about things, about tech, about gaming, about.
Social media like they were the topics. By KM five
it was Look at that flower. Look at the way
the the lights hitting those leaves. Look at this awesome
(20:02):
stick I've got you know it can carry like. Mm.
That's the power of it.
S1 (20:08):
Do you feel that when you go out into nature intentionally,
do you feel is there a point where things change
for you?
S3 (20:15):
Yeah. They click over. They it's it's. Yeah, it's very noticeable, actually.
S1 (20:22):
Like a decompression or something.
S3 (20:24):
Yeah.
S4 (20:26):
Yeah.
S3 (20:28):
Because I never really the senses just get over. It's
a with social media your senses can get. Bombarded, crazily
bombarded with just input after input after input. The similar
inputs in nature, if you like, slow down and just.
(20:50):
Take everything in the noise, the light, the the animals,
the the way that your legs are, you know, like
everything all the sensors just it's. It's loud. Like it's
a really loud noise. But for whatever reason, it's restorative. Restorative. Yes, it's. It's.
(21:14):
But I don't know. There's something different about nature and
and and I'm not just not saying it right, but
the noise in nature is quite loud if you allow it.
S1 (21:25):
Absolutely. And that's paying attention, Right? That's, you know, that's
actively noticing using all your senses. You become aware of
what's happening around you and inside you and to you
and because of you. And I think. While like social media,
for example, tech use is similarly stimulating, almost all of
(21:49):
that stimulation is happening from our neck up. We're not
physically feeling anything except maybe, you know, scrolling thumb, tired eyes, whatever. But.
Everything is coming in via our eyes and our ears,
and it's all happening in our heads. So it's a
(22:09):
totally different sense of overstimulation. And again, going back to
what happens when we are intentional with it. You know,
you start to recognize that decompression point when you're outside or,
you know that moment where your shoulders like, go relax. Yeah,
I always find like this kind of. If I go
(22:32):
out into the bush for a bush walk? And I'm
in a bad mood. I don't know, maybe ten minutes
in and I'm smiling like an idiot at the trees
and the flowers and the birds and, you know, stopping
to look at things. And it's just such a shift.
And it's so. Obvious. Every time I like never once
(22:53):
have I gone, Gee, I wish I didn't do that. Gee,
I regret going out and doing that. It never happens.
It never happens at once. Same with exercise or, you know,
anything like that. And I guess that's where going back
to your point about. Learning to be intentional with it.
(23:14):
That paired with the realization that these things are never wasted,
these these efforts to care for ourselves and never wasted
pair that with intentionality. That's where you start to build
a practice of self-care that really does leave you feeling
supported and cared for from within. I think.
S3 (23:34):
What if I ask you for your top three self-care habits? Rituals.
What would you how would you rank them and why?
S1 (23:43):
Rank. Oh, okay. I'm not going to rank them. That
makes me nervous. I don't know why. So the thing
that I will always, always come back to, aside from nature,
is journaling.
S3 (24:00):
Always because which is different to morning pages. When you
mean journaling, what are you actually?
S1 (24:05):
Journaling can mean so many different things.
S3 (24:07):
Okay, so what do you how do you journal then?
S1 (24:09):
So I often journal in a morning pages style. It
may not. It used to be a solid three pages.
Do not stop writing, do not ever go over or
under that. And that was building my practice that was recognizing.
S3 (24:24):
So hard to do. I've tried to do it and
it is really hard.
S1 (24:29):
Yes, it is. But to me it has been like
a complete. Kind of turning point over the years. And
I have come to know myself so incredibly well through
that process of morning pages simply because it is hard,
you know, yes, anyone can sit down and write surface
(24:52):
level stuff, you know, concerns or things that are going
on this week and why you're in a bad mood
or who said what pissed you off or that you
can anyone can do that for a page. Absolutely. Maybe two.
But it's not until you get to the end of
the second page. In my experience, that stuff starts to
come out and you're like, Where did you come from?
And I have learned so much about myself through that
(25:12):
exact process. And I think I think I'm now at
the point where I can shortcut to that. So journaling
is in essence, the same kind of approach stream of consciousness,
but I don't necessarily need to dig around for those
three pages. I often find myself where I kind of
knew I was headed, but not sure what I was
(25:34):
going to find. Much quicker than that. But sometimes journaling
is like writing a couple of paragraphs about, you know,
precisely how I'm feeling, and then I might shift into
a poem or that might be it, or it might be,
you know, a list of things, or it might, I
might end up writing about work or drafting out a
post like it's, it's not a. Cut and dried technique
(25:56):
for me anymore. But it's the thing I always come
back to. And if I get lost, if I'm stuck,
if I'm overwhelmed, if I'm everything else is too much,
I will always find myself back on the page. So
there's that. This gardening.
S3 (26:15):
Okay. Nature.
S1 (26:16):
Yeah. So being outside, hands in the dirt, feet, preferably barefooted,
you know, coming in tired. I've got a bit of a.
Strained relationship with that at the moment. Just with your energy. Yeah,
my energy. So up and down it has been. Not
completely missing, but I've had to completely rethink what it
(26:39):
looks like. And again, that's where I'm trying to take
my own advice of like not focusing on what it
looks like. So it used to be. You know, wait
and prepare this garden bed. That's what it would look
like and that would feel like success. Now it's like,
how do I want to feel? And I might feel
fulfilled or I might feel that exhausted kind of sensation
(27:03):
in my muscles after five minutes, or I might feel
like that's enough and that is enough. So the gardening.
And then okay, so I've got boring self care that
I would also classify as super important boring self.
S3 (27:21):
Yeah. Okay.
S1 (27:22):
That's things like taking my supplements, making sure I'm taking
my medication, drinking enough water, not having coffee after lunchtime. Well, that's.
S3 (27:30):
Just setting yourself up for success.
S1 (27:32):
But that's self-care. Yeah, that is self-care. You know, you're
caring for yourself so that you can feel, well, mentally, physically, emotionally.
Which means that you can then. Move through your day
in a much more positive way. No matter what it
throws at you, you know, And that like that is self-care.
It doesn't have to leave you with this glowing sensation
(27:55):
of of, you know, self righteousness or something. It's just
looking after yourself. So going to bed, getting, trying to
get eight hours sleep every night, moving when I can,
I would classify. A connection with other people is somewhere between.
(28:16):
Boring is the wrong word, almost begrudging self-care and really
powerful self-care. Because I'm. I'm very introverted and have often
joked that I would probably be a hermit if left
my own devices. That's not good for me. I know that.
So ensuring I connect with people. Is really important as well.
S3 (28:40):
That's a good three.
S1 (28:41):
Yeah, I feel like there was about 17 in there,
but thank you. Do you have any that you would
classify as. Kind of top tier for you?
S3 (28:51):
Yeah. So physically, like moving. Exercising. It's the big one
for me and something I've only really developed and prioritized
over the last maybe 3 or 4 years. But it
is so important. Feeling healthy. It's just it's a really
(29:14):
nice feeling to be able to feel, to say, Yeah,
I'm feeling healthy, I'm feeling the best I can be
at the moment. And I think exercise goes a long
way of supporting that from a physical sense and mental.
I guess the other one is yeah, talking to other
(29:34):
people about. In just having this conversation, for example, is
a is a form of self-care. Having interesting conversations with people. Just. Yeah,
really works for me. And that's probably because I'm a
bit more of an extrovert than you are. I don't
know what I am. I think you're I don't have
(29:55):
a label, but that to me is. Really important for
for my emotional and mental state. And the third one
is an interesting one. I'm going to have to say
nature again, just being outside, taking those, whether it's ten
minutes at lunchtime, just to be outside in whatever weather,
(30:20):
just feel like I'm connecting on another level that is
not tech.
S1 (30:27):
Yep. So, you know, what about chopping firewood? Could you
could you find a way to make that a self-care moment? Yeah.
S3 (30:37):
As long as I pay attention to where the blade is.
S1 (30:39):
Yeah, please do. Please do.
S3 (30:42):
Don't turn off.
S1 (30:43):
Completely. No, but that's it. I think it's interesting that you.
You thought you have to turn off. It's actually turning on.
S3 (30:50):
Just a different part of your brain.
S1 (30:51):
Yeah. Yeah. But it's paying closer attention to what you're doing.
It's not going into some dreamland in your mind where
you're detached, but it's actually the opposite. I think of that.
It's becoming like reattached to what you're doing because most
of your work, for example, is. Again from the neck up.
(31:12):
You know, you do a lot of talking, a lot
of thinking, a lot of writing. So, you know, using
that trip out to the shed and the ten minutes
of chopping wood a day as a something you got
to do anyway. Yeah. It's like a ritual, a moment
where you can shift into a different mode of being
(31:34):
for a little while. It's so interesting.
S3 (31:35):
Being in an office at which I am sometimes and.
S1 (31:40):
Like an actual office with actual people, other people.
S3 (31:42):
Within it, in the office. And after lunch you can
tell the people that have left the office and you
can tell the people that stayed at the office to
have lunch.
S1 (31:52):
Okay. In what way? In what way?
S3 (31:55):
Well, sometimes people are wet because it was raining. No, Because.
People look brighter and happier when they've been out. Even
if they ate lunch and just went for a walk
or whatever, you could tell people that have got up,
(32:17):
moved around, move their bodies gone outside. They just seem
more clear headed. They're friendlier to approach. It's really strange,
I know, but I. Give me a cross-section of people
and I'll be able to tell which ones have been
outside for lunch or just taking some time for themselves
(32:38):
away from their desks.
S1 (32:39):
I wonder if that's huge, if that's partly like getting
out into the sunshine. That's what, you know, getting. So
I think they talk about when you're on a screen
all day to have breaks. Yes. For movement, but also
for your eyes. Yeah.
S3 (32:54):
So giving your eyes.
S1 (32:55):
A yeah and.
S3 (32:57):
Focus break because it's that it's that like 30 centimeter.
S1 (33:01):
That's right.
S3 (33:02):
Focus.
S1 (33:03):
So it's sort of looking out into the distance. And
if you can find something in the distance that is
green or that is, you know, water or like an
open piece of.
S3 (33:13):
Space or whatever it is, yeah.
S1 (33:15):
Even better. Yeah. So, you know, that could be part
of it as well.
S3 (33:19):
Yeah, I think so. I think that's that is.
S1 (33:25):
What's something that you. Would like to improve with your self-care. Mhm.
S3 (33:44):
It's a good question. I've always wanted to meditate. Of
really wanted to try. And I have given it a
good go. But for whatever reason, I can't seem to
develop that ritual. I'd like to do some more inwardly
focused self-care. That That to me is something that I'd
(34:10):
like to focus on. It can't be journaling, though. It's
got to be just sitting and maybe it is meditating,
sitting with my thoughts. Such an uncomfortable thing to do.
S1 (34:24):
Yeah.
S3 (34:26):
But I. I mean, I've seen people that have been
meditating and they're like crying with, like, joy and happiness.
I want that. Looks great.
S1 (34:40):
Mm. Okay. I think you should investigate.
S5 (34:48):
Well.
S1 (34:49):
I'm not well versed in meditation. Like I have found
something that works for me. I dip in and out
of it. There are so many different ways to meditate.
So it's a matter, I think, for you of finding
something that. It speaks to that thing that you want,
that that feeling that you want of, you know, that
(35:10):
joyful like I don't know what that would be.
S3 (35:14):
Because I've done the. Insight timer and yeah, you know,
all those sorts of meditation. Maybe it's having to go
to a group meditation, maybe.
S1 (35:25):
Yeah.
S3 (35:26):
For some reason I do like group environments.
S5 (35:30):
Yep.
S1 (35:30):
The only time I have ever cried during meditation was
during a group.
S3 (35:34):
Really?
S1 (35:34):
Yeah. It was at the end of yoga. Yeah. Yeah,
it was like a.
S3 (35:39):
Endorphin.
S1 (35:39):
Rush. No, it was like a physical release of emotional. Tension.
S3 (35:47):
Want that? That sounds great.
S1 (35:50):
It was. Of pudding. To be honest, it came out
of nowhere.
S3 (35:57):
Yeah. Which that's exactly how it's supposed to work. Sure.
S1 (36:01):
Yeah. I'd never experienced it before. To me, it's always
meditation has always been a much. Yeah, I was going
to say gentler. Especially in the beginning. Like it's it's
a it's frustrating. Meditation is frustrating.
S3 (36:18):
For me and the way I am at the moment.
I'd love a clear head. My head just feels so
full all the time.
S1 (36:23):
I think that's probably why I always suggest journaling to
you because it is literally.
S5 (36:29):
I can't.
S1 (36:29):
Put. But you do because you do work like you
do morning pages and you do brain dumping.
S3 (36:33):
I've done it. I have done morning pages and I
do brain dumping works. I know it works. And I
do that on an almost a daily occurrence. But I
feel like that's different to a stream of conscience morning
pages thing where you were writing literally anything.
S1 (36:49):
Oh, yeah, absolutely different, I feel.
S3 (36:53):
Really uncomfortable in my head when I do that.
S1 (36:57):
God, I'd love to, like, crack your brain open and
walk around in it for a bit.
S5 (37:05):
Mixed metaphors.
S1 (37:06):
Wouldn't that be cool, though, to be? I don't know.
Would it be cool to be able to do that? Like.
S3 (37:11):
Of often said with you and the way in your
medical issue. I just like I would love to live
just as you for one day just so I and
I do empathize, but I want to feel it like
I want to be able to. Really feel it.
S5 (37:28):
And yeah, I get it.
S1 (37:30):
I get it. Yeah.
S3 (37:35):
So I guess I need to throw that question back
to you. What do you want to improve on? What
would you like to be able to do when it
comes to self-care?
S1 (37:44):
I mean, the thing that I would love to be
able to get back to is a more regular approach
to movement and exercise. You know, up until probably 12
months ago, maybe, maybe not even beginning of this year.
I was sort of. In a pretty good place with.
Training and walking, and I would lift weights 2 or
(38:07):
3 times a week and nothing crazy, but.
S3 (38:10):
You're just moving and you're but.
S1 (38:12):
Moving intentionally and challenging. Myself.
S3 (38:14):
You were. Yeah.
S1 (38:16):
And it was regular and it felt good and I
felt cared for and I felt supported from within. And
I had that feeling that you described of, you know,
that positive feeling of health fullness. And then everything took
a dive a few months ago and I've had to stop. Like,
I will go to training with you, but I can't
do anything. I mean, I couldn't even.
S3 (38:36):
Get stretch You do stretch, you're moving, you do.
S1 (38:39):
Move. And that's what I was going to say. So.
I move every day in some capacity. I will come
out into the back room during lunch break or, you know,
when I'm taking a break from my computer and stretch.
I still do stretches when I'm waiting for the coffee
to brew. I do things to move my body and
I wear an aura ring which will alert me if
(39:02):
I've been sitting still for an hour or longer. So
I always tap into that, you know, and. Make sure
I get up, drink a lot of water so that
I go to the bathroom. Like even things like that,
it helps.
S3 (39:15):
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
S1 (39:16):
So I guess in an ideal world, I'd love to
get back to training the way that I was, but
I think. It's about building some more of those micro
moments of movement into my day very intentionally. And I
think that would would be of benefit to me physically,
but also mentally.
S5 (39:39):
Yeah, I like.
S3 (39:40):
The macro micro breakdown of self-care.
S1 (39:43):
Yeah. And that's, that's really important because I think we
lose the idea that the tiny little moments can be
just as powerful, particularly if we apply them consistently.
S3 (39:54):
That's the thing that I need to work on.
S5 (39:56):
Micro self-care.
S1 (39:57):
Yeah. And even doing the things that you already do
through the lens of self-care.
S5 (40:04):
Chopping wood. Yeah, self-care, drinking.
S1 (40:07):
Water.
S3 (40:08):
Self-care.
S1 (40:09):
Going to bed early.
S5 (40:10):
Oh, wonderful. It is.
S1 (40:12):
Wonderful. But, you know, if you can file that away
in your head as another way, you're caring for yourself
every day it feels different. It doesn't just feel like
nice or like luxurious. Like you almost seem to think
that it's a treat, you know? It's actually you caring
for yourself. And that. That reframe, I think makes a
(40:33):
huge difference. And it also takes away the bullshit of
self care because there is so much of it, right?
We spoke about a few months back, there was the
wellness and social media episode. It's so easy to talk
self care and end up down there.
S3 (40:47):
Oh yeah.
S5 (40:48):
Massively.
S1 (40:49):
It really is. And it just doesn't have to be
to me. Self care should and is accessible to everybody.
S3 (40:55):
Self care is free.
S1 (40:57):
Absolutely. There are things that you can buy and do
and pay for that might help you facilitate your own
self care or learn about it. Fine. I have no
problem with that. But it is and should be accessible
to everybody. To everyone and everybody. So, you know, I
think that that's. Why those micro moments can be so
(41:20):
helpful and powerful, You know, and what I'd encourage people
to do, I guess, is if you're listening to this
and you've got a few ideas coming to you for
what tiny moments of self-care could look like for you,
those moments that make you feel supported and cared for.
Write them down like take five minutes. Make a list
as long as you can of any tiny thing that
(41:41):
makes you feel good and refer to it on any
given day. You know, if you give yourself three 32nd
blocks of self-care time or something, what can you do
from that list? And I think sometimes taking the brain
work out of it means that on the days where
we really need it, but we think we don't have time,
we can just look at that list and go, okay,
(42:02):
I'll do that.
S3 (42:02):
That's me. That's me today.
S5 (42:05):
Okay.
S3 (42:05):
Really good advice.
S1 (42:09):
Not advice.
S5 (42:11):
Encouragement lesson.
S1 (42:14):
So I guess one of the reasons that I wanted
to do the self care topic today was a, because
it felt very. Relevant to you at the moment. I
know that you've been under the pump and I wanted
to talk about it and be over on the tortoise.
(42:36):
I hadn't realized I was doing this until last term,
but because I write in sort of ten week blocks
and take a couple of weeks off. Each of the
terms of writing have had their own kind of loose theme.
And the theme for this current block of ten weeks
is self care. So that does fit in really nicely.
(43:00):
And I think that subconsciously I selected that as a
topic because I needed it to and to really, I guess,
reframe what it can mean because it's really easy when
you go through a change in your circumstances to lose
sight of what self-care is to you. And I think
I'm probably rebuilding a new version of it for myself,
(43:23):
which definitely includes writing. Which is the other reason I
wanted to bring this topic up. So as part of
the Tortoise for paying subscribers, I run an online retreat
every quarter. So first quarter of the year, I did
a values retreat. Second quarter was rhythms. And in this
(43:43):
quarter I'm actually doing a retreat called Writing as self-care.
So if that's something that interests anyone listening, you can
head over to the tortoise, which is at Brooke McAlary Substack.
Com And you can sign up as a paying subscriber.
It's $5 a month or $50 a year Australian And
(44:05):
you can join us regardless.
S5 (44:08):
Join the community.
S1 (44:08):
Yeah, join the community. Absolutely. You will get, you know,
most Sundays you'll get a post for paying subscribers. Every Thursday.
Everyone gets a post and it's usually a letter or
a podcast episode, something practical or something. Um, a little
bit more. Head heavy. I'm running out of good words.
S5 (44:32):
Head, heavy. Head.
S1 (44:33):
Heavy. You know, all up in my head. Yeah. So, anyway,
if the. Writing a self-care topic interests you. You should
go and check it out. Say hello and see what
the tortoise is all about.
S3 (44:47):
You're a good teacher. Now, you had a reflection for us.
S5 (44:52):
Yes.
S3 (44:52):
For today's.
S1 (44:53):
Episode. The reflection section.
S3 (44:55):
The reflection?
S5 (44:59):
Yeah, the reflection section.
S1 (45:01):
So a few weeks back, I wrote a post about
toxic positivity, which seemed to really. Um, interest. A lot of.
S5 (45:12):
People did it grind.
S3 (45:13):
People's gears?
S1 (45:14):
I don't think so. I think toxic positivity grinds people's gears.
So it was, it was interesting to see people kind
of reflect very broadly on their own experiences and their
own challenges of dealing with toxic positivity, either their own
or other people's. Uh, but one comment in particular sort
(45:34):
of grabbed my attention from Holly, and I'm just going
to read it because I have been thinking about it
a lot since she, um, since she submitted it. She said,
I find when I'm trying to console or just go
through my own negative emotions, I struggle with this balance
of letting myself feel the negativity without wallowing in it
(45:58):
and trying to be resilient against it, but without denying
my rights to feel sad. You briefly mentioned that resilience
and a positive attitude has a place, but I'd be
interested in what you mean by this and how not
to get it confused with suppressing emotions.
S3 (46:15):
Oh, it's so such an interesting.
S5 (46:17):
Comment, Such.
S1 (46:18):
A good question.
S3 (46:19):
Resilience is such a loaded word.
S1 (46:22):
Why do you say that?
S5 (46:23):
It just.
S3 (46:23):
Is. It just is because it is very individualistic in
terms of. People's. Capacity to be resilient and it can
so easily. Depending on the individual. Really harm people over
(46:43):
a long period of time.
S1 (46:46):
Yeah. No.
S3 (46:47):
She just pushed through things no matter what. And you
have this. Head heavy state where it's you are, no
matter what the circumstances, you push through and you are
blunting yourself emotionally. Mentally.
S1 (47:10):
And the flow on effects of that can be enormous.
S5 (47:13):
Huge.
S1 (47:15):
Yeah, it's a really. Tricky topic, I suppose, because. I
think that resilience is important. I think having a certain
amount of grit and. Inner strength is really important. But
what I think resilience has started to come to mean in,
(47:37):
you know, the mainstream. And this so often happens when
an idea or a topic becomes popularized. It gets diluted
or or. More kind of black and white. At same
thing happen with like mindfulness or, you know, self like wellness,
(47:59):
that kind of stuff. They've all been. Co-opted and.
S3 (48:04):
Commoditized.
S5 (48:04):
Yet?
S1 (48:05):
Exactly. And to the point where we don't necessarily completely
know what the word means when we're using it. We
think we do, but maybe it's not.
S3 (48:13):
And we use it often. They're just so often used.
S1 (48:16):
Yeah. So it's almost like it's.
S5 (48:17):
Lost its.
S1 (48:19):
Meaning, but. For me when I hear resilience. I think
what what what a lot of us think it's trying
to say is toughen up. Yeah. And tough it out
and stick through it. That's it. Through. Yeah. Whereas the
way I see resilience is actually softening into something, you know,
the resilience comes from an inner place rather than an
(48:42):
external shell that allows us to push through. And I
don't know if that's. True or not. I like.
S3 (48:50):
That. I like the shell part.
S1 (48:52):
Yeah.
S3 (48:52):
So everyone needs that protection. Yes, but people have got
to be more like a. Like a soft shelled crab.
S5 (49:04):
Rather than.
S3 (49:05):
A. Lobster.
S1 (49:09):
Oh, we stuck with the crustaceans.
S5 (49:12):
Yeah. Love lobster.
S1 (49:16):
Yeah. Okay. So I do I do think, though, that
there's something in that. Crustacean analogy. You know, what can
we do to. Develop an inner strength rather than an
external shell. Yeah, or too much of an external shell.
(49:40):
I think you're right. We need to. We need to
be able to protect ourselves to a certain extent from.
You know, the inevitable pushing through that happens in life
because sometimes we just have to. But if that becomes
our only mechanism for coping with difficult things as pushing through,
(50:00):
then I don't think anything gets in and we can't reflect,
we can't absorb, we can't really meet our selves in
that space. So I think that a positive attitude is
a different thing again, though. And I think that if
you're able to pair a positive attitude, which is not
sunshine and roses and everything's going to be fine, to me,
(50:23):
a positive attitude is like, Oh yeah, this sucks, but
I'm here with you or this sucks, but.
S5 (50:28):
It's more of.
S3 (50:29):
A just a healthy attitude, right? Because it's not necessarily. Yeah.
Positive situation.
S1 (50:34):
No, that's it. And it's not the situation. It's. Oh, like.
I was going to say hope or optimism. And sometimes
they're not even relevant, right? Because some situations you don't
have any. It's just a matter of meeting yourself where
you are. Yeah. But I think. For me, resilience is
(50:58):
mostly achieved personally through. Letting things be what they are,
whether that is hard or soft or, you know, difficult
or easy. And allowing that to be the case, particularly
in the instance of difficult things going, okay, this is hard.
This is really hard, This hurts. I'm in pain. I'm struggling,
(51:23):
I'm grieving. I'm, you know, afraid, whatever. And just softening
into that. Not trying to change it. And for me,
that kind of helps in multiple ways. It almost reduces the.
(51:43):
Amount of time I spend in that space. Because it
reduces the pressure around it or something. I don't I
don't know. I can kind of picture it, but I
can't use the words trying to reflect about when my
dad was in hospital and we just allowed things to.
S5 (52:00):
Suck to be.
S1 (52:01):
And they sucked. But they also didn't because we laughed
a lot. And I think that if I had tried
to tell myself that it didn't suck and everything was
going to be fine, just.
S3 (52:10):
That positive, toxic positivity.
S1 (52:12):
Then we wouldn't have laughed because.
S3 (52:14):
You would just be living a non.
S5 (52:19):
Credible way.
S3 (52:21):
Of living.
S1 (52:21):
Just be in that shell.
S5 (52:23):
It's not.
S3 (52:23):
You. Yeah.
S1 (52:25):
Anyway, I think it's such a great question.
S3 (52:27):
It's a huge it's a huge question. It probably requires
more than what we've given it. But it is such
an interesting premise, and that's what happens when you brand something.
And that branding. Just gets used so much that it
loses its actual meaning and its actual purpose.
S6 (52:52):
Hmm.
S3 (52:55):
I want to go back to self-help really quickly. Care sorry, self-care.
I want to go back to self-care really quickly. So
just thought of something that I really want to try.
And that's and I've done it before, but some sort
of martial arts that combines mental and physical.
S5 (53:16):
Health.
S3 (53:19):
The limited amount that I've done it, I feel like
it really benefited me. So that's another one to add
to the list.
S5 (53:27):
Okay.
S3 (53:28):
A martial arts and meditation.
S1 (53:33):
Okay. What I will say before we finish up, they're
both things that take time. No, no, I'm all for it. Like,
take that time. Yeah. Is there anything I suppose we
already spoke about, you know, ritual izing, things that you
already do and reflecting on them as being.
S5 (53:47):
I need to.
S3 (53:48):
Reframe those as forms of self-care and be easier on myself.
S5 (53:53):
Yes, please.
S3 (53:53):
Yeah. Please think over overall.
S5 (53:57):
Uh, yeah.
S1 (53:59):
Yeah, I guess that's maybe the takeaway. If we can
all reflect on the ways that we care for ourselves already.
And we all do in loads of different ways, all day,
every day and take a bit of pride in that. Yeah.
And that might just be the thing that we need
to do in order to reframe it, as you said.
(54:19):
And when we start paying attention to things, we have
to do them more. You know? Yeah, we do. Yeah.
S5 (54:25):
Yeah.
S1 (54:25):
So if you start paying attention to how you breathe,
for example, and you're like, I'm just going to take
a big, deep breath. And see how that feels and
you pay attention to it throughout the day. You're going
to do more of it. Yeah. So maybe that's that's
the takeaway is, is first of all, just start by
making a list of all the ways that we do
care for ourselves.
S3 (54:44):
Because often it's a lot more than you even realize. Yeah.
S5 (54:48):
All right. Thanks for the chat.
S1 (54:49):
Thank you for the chat. You know, I've got to
be honest, I was. It's been a day. And I was.
S3 (54:56):
Nervous about how we would.
S5 (54:58):
Yeah.
S1 (54:59):
Wondering if we could bring the bring the right energy
to the.
S5 (55:02):
I think we have Mike.
S1 (55:03):
Yeah, I think so.
S3 (55:05):
Hope you have enjoyed it. Dear listener. Thank you once
again for all those that have left comments and reviews
on Apple, Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get this podcast from.
Very much appreciated. And also over on the Tortoise, the
the comments, it's essentially what drives us to keep going.
S1 (55:27):
Oh, 100%.
S5 (55:29):
Like.
S3 (55:29):
The feedback. I don't read it. But Brooke. Often says, Oh,
listen to this, and that just fills my cup. And that's,
I'd say 50% of why I do this.
S1 (55:41):
That external validation.
S5 (55:42):
Yeah, it's important.
S1 (55:43):
You know what? And it comes from community, right?
S3 (55:46):
That's it.
S1 (55:46):
That's it. It comes from.
S5 (55:47):
People being.
S3 (55:48):
Valued.
S1 (55:49):
Yeah. And also, you know, just being surrounded in an
Internet sense by, by a group of people who get
it and they're wanting to ask the same questions and
have the same conversations. And, you know, we're all exploring.
What living outside the status quo looks like. In any
(56:09):
given moment, you know, in lots of different tiny ways.
It's really is what I think this podcast is kind
of becoming about.
S3 (56:16):
It's all about.
S1 (56:17):
Questioning things and looking at the possibilities of what Slo
can be.
S3 (56:30):
And I hope that this podcast has been a form
of self-care. Absolutely. In a very meta universe way.
S1 (56:41):
So head on over to the tortoise to read the
show notes for today's episode. So that's Brooklyn calorie.substack.com. And
if you're interested in joining us for the writing. A
self-care retreat. You can do that over there as well.
In the meantime, though. Take good care of yourself.
UU (57:02):
And we'll see you soon.
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