Tech and Kids: Episode 5

For our kids (and adults as well), there is barely a part of life that isn't somehow connected to smartphones, social media or screens, and they're starting to feel the effects of being constantly connected. 

In today's episode, Ben and Brooke talk about their experience raising two high school-ages kids (12 and 14) and the constant negotiations around tech boundaries. They also talk about the broader impact that high levels of screen time are having on kids in general, the challenges that are beginning to emerge in regards to relationships, well-being and self-esteem, and what we as adults can do to help support them. 

Brooke also reflects on a hugely impactful documentary she saw recently, that has given her something that's been in short supply lately: hope.  

Head over to The Tortoise for the full show notes, and if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to the free weekly newsletter while you're there. 

Join The Tortoise Community: https://brookemcalary.substack.com/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

S1 (00:02):
This is the tortoise. The podcast that digs into the
possibilities of slow. I am your host, Brooke McAlary, and
I am joined by Ben McAlary. Hello.

S2 (00:23):
This is not a podcast. This is a podcast. I
forget that we say that I need to get back
in saying podcast, not a podcast because it suits this podcast.
Podcast sure, doesn't it?

S1 (00:40):
It's very plodding.

S2 (00:41):
It's so we're such plotters.

S1 (00:45):
I like it. Makes me feel a bit cozy, to
be honest.

S2 (00:49):
Absolutely. Let's do a quick check in. How are you feeling?

S1 (00:53):
Pretty good. Pretty good. Been a weird few weeks, but
I'm doing all right. Sitting here with you, having a chat.
Dogs at my feet. Happy days. Yeah. Yeah.

S2 (01:05):
Cozy. Comfortable.

S1 (01:07):
Very cozy and comfortable. Exactly. How are you?

S2 (01:10):
Pretty good. Yeah. Yeah, I just. We're. We don't record
in the afternoon very often. And when you're listening to
this podcast, we're recording in the afternoon, so there might
be some energy differences.

S1 (01:25):
Yeah, there might be some traffic noise differences.

S2 (01:28):
I might be even more goofy than usual.

S1 (01:32):
Yeah.

S2 (01:34):
But other than that, looking forward to some holidays very,
very shortly.

S1 (01:40):
So you're taking a week off, Which would be great. Yeah.
The kids have just started school holidays, so. Yeah.

S2 (01:51):
Yeah. I love this time of year.

S1 (01:54):
Why? Why do you like winter?

S2 (01:55):
Well, it's just kind of like the it's going to
say the beginning of the year. Beginning of the new
new financial year.

S3 (02:03):
Woo hoo!

S2 (02:06):
Accountants rejoice.

S1 (02:09):
Apologies to any accountants I.

S2 (02:11):
I like it because it signifies the middle of the
year and it like it's reminding me of how quickly
the year's gone so far.

S1 (02:22):
Okay.

S2 (02:23):
Yeah. Like, shouldn't it be March? Sure. That's what it
feels like to me anyway.

S1 (02:28):
I often to be like just going off on a
little tangent here. I often I have a bit of
a conflicted relationship with that whole like, gee, the years
flying by kind of talk because it absolutely is like,
I actually cannot believe it is July. Yeah. And it
is the middle break of the school year. Uh. And

(02:50):
I feel like every year is going quicker than the last.
Just to dive fully into that cliché.

S4 (02:55):
Absolutely.

S1 (02:56):
But I also don't. I don't want to lean too
heavily into it because then that becomes like that becomes
the norm, right? And all of us talk about how
quick everything's going and we sort of give up and
we give ourselves over to the. Almost unnatural speed of
time passing. And I don't I don't I don't like

(03:16):
contributing to that because I feel like that conversation contributes
to people's stress and I don't want to do that,
but I totally get it.

S2 (03:24):
What's really stressing me out now is our dog has
picked up our daughter's pillow and is literally destroying it.

S1 (03:31):
Well, he's dancing around. He wants attention.

S2 (03:33):
He is. You know what I think about this is
the way that I treat it as it's like I'm
running a long distance race.

S3 (03:42):
Okay.

S2 (03:42):
So I've started the year off nice pace and I've
surprised myself. I'm halfway through the race, okay? And I've
got so much energy left and I'm going to finish
so strong. That's how I feel.

S3 (03:57):
Well, that's.

S1 (03:57):
Good. Now, what do you like this time of year?

S3 (03:58):
I know it's.

S2 (03:59):
Not always like that, but this particular race. 2023. Okay.

S3 (04:04):
Doing well. I dig it. Yeah.

S1 (04:07):
So anyway. Yeah, I just don't like. I don't like
contributing to that. You know that feeling where everyone's like,
I'm running out of time. Oh, my God, everything's going
so fast. And life's like, passing me by. So. It
feels slow. If it's nice and slow. Good.

S2 (04:24):
Yeah, very good. So in today's episode, we're going to
talk about its tick tock.

S1 (04:31):
Tick tock on the tortoise. Tortoise. Tick tock.

S2 (04:36):
And specifically taking kids. Yep. And the relationship.

S3 (04:41):
Of.

S2 (04:43):
Our kids with tech.

S1 (04:45):
Yeah, well, I mean, I'm.

S2 (04:47):
Of our kids and not. We're not. Look, we're not experts.

S3 (04:52):
Nope.

S2 (04:53):
Of anything.

S3 (04:54):
At all.

S1 (04:55):
Not a single damn thing. Which is just the way, like.

S2 (04:59):
You won't find two bigger generalists in the history of
the world than you and I. So, yeah, we just
want to say that, though. We like we caution. Everything
we say is we're not experts and anything. And the
advice we give is of general in nature. And it's not.

S3 (05:16):
Specific. We don't give advice, though. Circumstances, do we give.

S2 (05:19):
I was trying to sound like a financial services ad, Sorry.
Go on.

S1 (05:24):
Yeah, I think we actually go to kind of lengths
to not give advice and I think your word observations
is and conversation, that's really what we're doing here. And
I think the only reason I really want to say
that is because this is a really fraught topic that
people often feel is laced with judgment, particularly, I think,
when you're talking about it through the lens of slow

(05:47):
living or mindfulness or intentional living or whatever. It's really
easy to get defensive, and I get it. I completely understand.
I have been there and will be there again myself
many times. So I think that's really why I just
wanted us to start out on that fruit and just say,
this is a conversation. It's full of observations. We have kids,

(06:07):
our kids are 12 and 14, so we've been through
some stuff. We haven't been through other stuff. Everyone's situation,
everyone's circumstances are going to be different, but also every
single parent I know. Who I've ever touched on the
conversation of parenting or tech or anything in between with.

(06:28):
Everyone is struggling with it.

S2 (06:29):
It's one of the biggest, if not the biggest issues
facing parents today.

S3 (06:35):
Yep.

S1 (06:36):
I would agree 100% because of the breadth of it.
We're not just talking about social media. We're not just
talking about, you know, phone use. It's it's everything that
comes with. The Internet, you know, and all technology that
is related like connection tech. I'm not. I think that's

(06:58):
really what we're talking about is connection tech. So, you know,
anything Internet related, anything. Connection related? Guess. Yeah.

S2 (07:06):
All right, well, let's get into it. I want to
start the episode by. Having a little quiz.

S3 (07:16):
Pop quiz.

S2 (07:16):
Pop quiz for you. A couple of questions, if I could,
just to get a base level understanding of of tech
and and the relationship. Predominantly of of teens, but tweens
as well as some tween stuff in here as well. Anyway,
let me let's let's kick off and we'll see how

(07:36):
you go. What is the most popular online platform for teens?

S1 (07:46):
Like social media.

S2 (07:47):
Social media? Yeah. This is all about social media.

S3 (07:50):
Okay. TikTok.

S2 (07:52):
Okay. And, like, keep on going. Like, what do you
think's next?

S1 (07:56):
Oh, you. So YouTube, I don't know if you would classify.

S2 (08:00):
This classified as as social.

S1 (08:02):
Then YouTube first and then so. And then TikTok and
then Snapchat. Instagram. Facebook.

S2 (08:10):
Pretty good.

S3 (08:11):
Yeah, pretty good.

S2 (08:12):
You just mixed up. Snapchat and Instagram are interesting. Instagram
is slightly more positive, more used by about 3%.

S3 (08:22):
Right. Okay.

S2 (08:22):
Yeah, but yeah, YouTube. Get this. 95% of teenagers and
tweens have used on the regular YouTube.

S1 (08:37):
That does not surprise me at all.

S3 (08:38):
That's unbelievable.

S1 (08:39):
I saw a.

S2 (08:40):
It's the most addictive.

S3 (08:42):
Mm.

S2 (08:43):
For me as well. Social media channel that I've ever known.

S1 (08:48):
That's interesting because I'm not a YouTube consumer. What I.

S2 (08:52):
Don't like. So why.

S3 (08:54):
Just.

S1 (08:55):
I.

S2 (08:56):
It's not on your radar?

S3 (08:57):
Nope, I'm.

S1 (08:57):
Not a visual learner. So I think a lot of
people find their way onto YouTube. Maybe people our age.
I'm not talking about kids necessarily because they're looking for
instruction on how to do something and whether that's like
a holiday that they're planning or a specific problem that
they're having with their computer or wanting to learn how
to crochet or so people will go to YouTube. I

(09:20):
don't learn.

S2 (09:21):
Very informative.

S1 (09:22):
I don't learn that way.

S3 (09:23):
I can be totally sure.

S1 (09:24):
And I get it. I completely understand it. You have
learnt loads of things and if you run into a
problem at home like a, you know, an issue with
a tool or something, you'll go YouTube.

S3 (09:34):
Definitely go to YouTube.

S1 (09:35):
See, I will go and read about it.

S2 (09:37):
I would not read a manual.

S3 (09:38):
No, I.

S2 (09:39):
Know I would go on YouTube and see it.

S3 (09:44):
For like.

S2 (09:45):
Practical reasons.

S1 (09:47):
It actually annoys me that I don't. Yeah, but it's not.

S3 (09:51):
It's just not.

S2 (09:51):
Part of your solution matrix.

S1 (09:54):
No. Well, when I learned that whatever they.

S3 (09:56):
What is that?

S1 (09:57):
You're so full of crap.

S3 (09:58):
It's like.

S1 (10:00):
Corporate bullshit. Bingo. God. When I learnt how to crochet.

S3 (10:08):
I went to you.

S1 (10:11):
Know, I tried. I did try, Yes. And I found
it so frustrating because people who were doing the videos,
their brains didn't work the same way my brain did.
So the way they explain things or the way they
showed things did not vibe at all. I didn't get it.
I had to find someone who had photographs and written

(10:32):
instructions that were in the same so vain.

S3 (10:37):
So you went.

S2 (10:37):
On to a blog?

S1 (10:38):
Basically. Yeah, it was. I think it was from like 2012.
So that's my brain. I guess that's where my brain
stopped developing back in 2012 or something. So sorry, that
doesn't surprise me. Going back to your quiz, it does
not surprise me.

S2 (10:51):
So 95% followed by TikTok, 67%. Huge difference. Instagram 62,
Snapchat 59% and lowly. Fifth place Facebook with 32%.

S3 (11:06):
Yeah, I'm in 2014.

S2 (11:08):
Facebook 71%. Yes. That's not I mean, that's not surprising.
Everyone knows that the only people on Facebook nowadays are
either our parents or our parents parents.

S3 (11:21):
Yes. All those.

S1 (11:23):
Those 100 year olds on.

S3 (11:25):
Facebook.

S2 (11:27):
Um, but I guess looking at, you know, that. So
the most common platforms, the scary statistics start when you
start looking at how many times people visit these platforms.

S3 (11:42):
Per day or how.

S1 (11:43):
Many hours they're on them.

S3 (11:45):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

S2 (11:46):
So. YouTube people just go down and, you know, YouTube,
there's just videos that roll on and on and on
and looking at it and look at TikTok short form.
It's very short form Instagram, very short form Snapchat. I
guess I've never, ever been on Snapchat, you know, So

(12:07):
would not know and never been on tip top. Tick, tip, top,
top shop Tik Tok never been on Tik tok. I've
seen and this is the thing with YouTube. YouTube has
tik tok on it. Yes, it has other I think
Snapchat type things as well. It's got streaming. YouTube is

(12:30):
just like this big. It's like a. Syndication, Right.

S1 (12:35):
So but also people will like there was a meme
going around about two years ago saying, I don't I'm
not on TikTok, I'm too old to be on TikTok.
I just see TikTok videos on Instagram two weeks after
they were big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was me.
When I used to use Instagram, I'd be like, Yeah,
I know what TikTok is. I'm I'm down with the kids.
And then would proceed to talk about something that was

(12:56):
big three months ago. Uh, yeah. So do you have
any more questions for me? Okay.

S3 (13:05):
You like this?

S2 (13:07):
All right. So thinking about the amount of time tweens
and teens spend on social media. So now we're going
on to consumption. What do you reckon the average is?

S1 (13:24):
I'm going to say something like 12 hours.

S3 (13:26):
Okay.

S2 (13:28):
15 hours.

S3 (13:29):
Holy on average. Okay, so that's.

S2 (13:32):
An average figure. And all these figures are from Pew
Research Center, figures from last year. So the 2022 figures,
15 hours.

S3 (13:41):
Listen to.

S2 (13:41):
This. Most kids are spending more than five hours a
day on social media slash video games.

S3 (13:49):
Okay. Well, that's a.

S1 (13:49):
Weird thing to combine.

S2 (13:51):
Well, not really. When you think about video games are
very social these days, as in you're chatting to friends.
Not even friends, actually. Just randoms you might find in
a game you are. You can hear them. You're communicating
with them also.

S1 (14:06):
How much has the world changed since when we were
I mean, duh, since when we were growing up. The
idea of talking like literally having a conversation with a
random stranger on the internet filled our parents with dread. Right? Like,
that was the thing. It was stranger danger on, you know,

(14:27):
steroids because suddenly you could connect with everyone across the world.
And now my kids, like. Talk to people that they
don't know, they'll never know them. They don't actually really
even want to know them as people. It's just like
this connection. Portal. Yeah, you know. Sorry.

S2 (14:46):
Who's playing the corporate bullshit?

S1 (14:48):
Because I've been watching too much of the office. That's
what it is.

S2 (14:55):
Just some more statistics. 32% of teens surveyed said they
were online for 5 to 6 hours. What are they?
They're at school. And anyway. 17% reported being online for
7 to 8 hours and 13%. So more than 1
in 10 teens are online more than nine hours a day.

S1 (15:15):
But didn't you just say it was 15 hours, 15 average?

S2 (15:18):
That's that's for everything.

S3 (15:20):
Got you. Yeah. This is all.

S1 (15:21):
Screens.

S3 (15:22):
Yeah. Yeah.

S1 (15:23):
Wow. So nine hours of social media a day.

S2 (15:26):
15 hours on a screen, nine hours of which is
on social media slash gaming.

S3 (15:32):
Unreal. Wow.

S2 (15:34):
Um, and now for some really sobering, really sobering statistics, which,
you know, then we'll kind of get on with the episode.
But 665% of 8 to 14 year olds have been
involved in some kind of cyber bullying incident.

S1 (15:53):
What was the percentage?

S2 (15:54):
65%. This one. My jaw dropped. 90% of children aged
eight 8 to 16 have seen online pornography. 30% of
kids who use the Internet for over three hours a
day were diagnosed with depression. That's a bit.

S1 (16:17):
No, but there has been some significant studies released over
the last couple of months that are more and more
able to tie the mental health crisis. With the advent
of smartphones and social media like they are.

S2 (16:36):
It's linked. So excessive.

S3 (16:37):
Use of.

S2 (16:38):
Technology. Um, then you're going to have things like lower
attention spans. Like that. Increased risk and lack of privacy.

S3 (16:49):
Yep.

S2 (16:49):
Depression? Yeah. Obesity. Falling grades. And then like general, like
social interaction issues as well, like being able to talk
to people in the real world.

S1 (17:03):
There's so much in that that. Upsets me and makes
me it makes me angry on behalf of these kids.
It makes me so angry. And it makes me ashamed because.
You can almost. You can forgive our parents generation for.

(17:25):
Not knowing because like AOL and, you know, what's AOL,
you know, instant messaging and. My space. Oh, those sorts
of things. Yeah. We didn't. No one knew. What the

(17:48):
impact of that was. I'm sure there were many people
who were like, this is not going to be good
for yeah, young brains. But there was no you know,
there was.

S2 (18:01):
It was more, you know, isn't this great connection so.

S3 (18:05):
Good, Maybe. Yeah. Like novel.

S2 (18:08):
It's novel. It was a novelty.

S1 (18:09):
But we knew famous famously.

S2 (18:12):
For me, I had a boss who said social media
is a fad.

S3 (18:16):
And you know what?

S1 (18:17):
If you take the long view, he's probably not wrong. Like,
we may be seeing the end of social media coming.

S2 (18:23):
Definitely with Facebook.

S3 (18:24):
Yeah, that's.

S1 (18:25):
Right. I mean, something else is taking its place over
and over again.

S3 (18:28):
Well, that's what I that's it.

S2 (18:30):
Like social media as we know it is just evolving
into other things. Like you wouldn't have classified YouTube as
social media but it is like you can chat to
people on YouTube. Comment like you want to mean like
the comments.

S1 (18:42):
Yeah, yeah. And then you're getting, you know, now I'm
writing over on Substack. That is definitely a form of
social media. Yeah, you can't.

S3 (18:50):
Yeah, that's true.

S1 (18:52):
You know, it's somewhere that people are creating communities and stuff,
but it is media and it is social. You know,
people are connecting and people are able to interact.

S2 (19:00):
So I'm just shocked. Look, the 90% pornography that just
floored me and makes me really upset.

S1 (19:10):
It makes me angry. Like it makes me angry for
these generations of kids who are just given unfettered access
to the Internet. Yeah. And that is something that I cannot.
I cannot understand. I because we know like we know

(19:30):
what is as adults. We know what is on the Internet.
And I know how damaging it can be to me
as an adult. Even when you're not you're not looking
for stuff like you're not going out there looking for
things to make you upset or to make you question
yourself or to twist your mind in horrible ways. You're
not even looking for it. And it's there and it's

(19:53):
really disturbing. What's an eight year old brain going to
do on that? There are more and more studies coming
out showing the impact of what porn can do to
young brains like and the ripple effect of that of,
you know, self image, relationships, intimacy, being able to, you know,

(20:16):
form and maintain healthy, intimate relationships, all of that. It.
Is so distressing to think that 90% of kids. Are
being exposed to some level of porn, whether they want
like whether they're searching it out or not, You know,

(20:36):
it's not. It's. So, yeah, that's why I. I cannot understand.
Kids being given complete and open access to the Internet.

S3 (20:52):
Yeah.

S2 (20:53):
And I think this is be a good time to
for us to share our tech. Rules and regulations in
this House.

S3 (21:00):
Yeah.

S1 (21:00):
Which are evolving always. And you know.

S3 (21:03):
I shouldn't.

S2 (21:03):
Say rules, guidance notes because I think.

S3 (21:06):
We have rules.

S2 (21:07):
It's kind of. But they they've got to flex, right?
Like they've got to move. That's why I like rules
are quite hard and fast but depending on. Assessments, assignments, assignments, homework.
Like what we're doing on a weekend. They do flex.

S3 (21:28):
Sure. Yeah.

S1 (21:29):
Yeah. I understand what you're saying. I think our mentality
with kids, with learning how to make good decisions and
we applied this to things that they would spend money
on and the way that they would spend their time
and that kind of stuff was that we have always

(21:49):
tried to give them boundaries. And within which they are
allowed to make their own decisions. And I think we've
kind of maintained that as they've gotten older. It's just
that the boundaries are getting bigger. But. There are still boundaries,
you know, and I think that that has been important

(22:10):
for us and for them, because any time they have
tried to cross those boundaries or, you know, the boundaries
have been crossed. We can draw our attention to them.
You know, and that's the that's the starting point of
the conversation. So both of our kids are in high

(22:30):
school now and they both got a smartphone, their first
one when they started high school. So our daughters had
one for 18 months. Our son said one for six
months roughly. And it's not been without its bumps, that's
for sure. Uh, one of them has social media. The
other one has no interest in social media at this point,

(22:53):
with the exception of YouTube.

S2 (22:55):
Oh, okay. Let's not. YouTube is social media. So, yes,
he's there's they've got. Social media as far as I'm concerned.

S3 (23:04):
Yeah.

S1 (23:05):
And the platforms that they're allowed on is an ongoing conversation. Yeah.
So Instagram is something that because I understand it, I've
spent a lot of time on it. I know a
bit about how. People use it, but also how kids
use it. That was where we started. And then there

(23:28):
was a day where we were petitioned very strongly for
access to TikTok.

S3 (23:32):
Yeah, to.

S2 (23:32):
The point where there was a presentation.

S3 (23:34):
There was a.

S1 (23:34):
Presentation made, which I appreciated. I appreciated the dedication to
the to the cause. There was like a PowerPoint presentation.
It was awesome.

S2 (23:45):
Reminded me of an American sitcom.

S3 (23:47):
Sure.

S1 (23:47):
Yeah. And so TikTok was allowed for a while. A
TikTok isn't allowed anymore.

S2 (23:53):
Let's talk about.

S3 (23:54):
Why.

S1 (23:56):
So it's been really interesting to see. The echo chamber,
the algorithm, whatever you want to call it, in play.
Because it happens on YouTube as well. So this is
a more general comment. Um, but you see the kids
being interested in something which is fine and they go

(24:19):
looking for content about that thing and suddenly the algorithm
serves up more of that thing and as we learning.
And I think we spoke about it a little bit
on the wellness episode, the social media and wellness episode
a few months ago. Content creators recognize that the more

(24:39):
extreme their content is, the more engagement they're going to get.
Whether that is. Um. Synthetic like weather. That's something that
the algorithm is doing or whether that's something that people
just like looking at things that are that a little
bit more extreme. And so it actually does boost their engagement,

(24:59):
I don't know. But. Either way. They recognize that going
more extreme with their content.

S2 (25:07):
It's 100% part of their narrative.

S3 (25:10):
Sure.

S2 (25:10):
Which their strategy.

S3 (25:12):
Yeah. Yeah.

S1 (25:14):
Which is a whole other conversation. And you just see
the kids. Opinions. You see their actions, you see their.

S3 (25:24):
This is just.

S2 (25:24):
Through engaging and talking with them. That's right.

S3 (25:27):
Which is the.

S1 (25:28):
Other which is going to be the flip side of
this conversation, I think. You see, they're the lens through
which they're viewing the world and themselves in the world
change and slip. And it's really scary. And I think
it's fair to say that we're fairly engaged in this stuff.
Like I am probably one of the strictest parents of

(25:49):
my kids friends. Like, I think you're also.

S3 (25:55):
Strict, but thank you very much.

S1 (25:58):
No, you are like We agree. Well, I'm trying to
say is we agree on the boundaries before we give
them to the kids. It's never one of us driving
the bus without talking to the other one. But I
think because of what I know, because of the work
I've done, because of the reading I've done, because of
the echo chamber that I exist in, yeah, I get

(26:18):
served up a huge amount of content about how how
harmful all this stuff is.

S3 (26:26):
Totally.

S1 (26:27):
So that's all you've.

S2 (26:28):
Seen it through yourself and your actions and your what
you've done.

S3 (26:31):
Yeah, but I.

S1 (26:32):
Also happen to believe it, you know? Yeah. Which is the.

S3 (26:36):
All of.

S1 (26:37):
It. No, not all of it. Definitely not all of it.

S2 (26:40):
That's the thing, isn't it?

S3 (26:40):
Yeah.

S1 (26:41):
So we have the capacity to think critically. You and
I have both studied, you know, communications, and through that,
we've studied various ways of analysing discourse. And, you know,
we understand a lot of that. And we also read
about it because it's interesting. So we have that set
of tools that we can use when we're reading or

(27:03):
being presented with information kids don't have that. They have
to learn that. And when they're not learning it at school,
you know. It's on us as parents to have these
conversations with them. So that's the flip side of what
I wanted to say, which is I think the reason
that we were able to recognize that TikTok in itself

(27:25):
had become an issue was because we kept having conversations
and because we and as a parent, like everyone knows,
when something's up, you know, you have that gut feeling.
And it's just a matter of reiterating. I'm here to talk,
if ever you want to talk. Is something going on?

(27:45):
You know, have you been upset by something that you've seen? Like,
let's talk about this person. And I have no shame
in saying that. I was very. On it into I
got a TikTok account.

S3 (28:00):
Did you.

S2 (28:01):
Know that?

S1 (28:02):
To make sure that.

S3 (28:03):
What the.

S2 (28:04):
Dancing did you.

S3 (28:05):
Do so much.

S1 (28:05):
Dancing. Yeah. Dancing point videos. That's my thing. Uh, so
you can call it spying if you want. Don't mind.
I don't think it's spying. It's more like just keeping a.
Finger on the pulse of what's going on. Yeah, and.

S3 (28:21):
I'd like.

S1 (28:22):
That stuff would disturb me. Did disturb me as an adult.
So it's kind of drawing your kid's attention to the
fact that. A lot of the content they're watching is
made by people not much older than them. First of all, often.
And they don't have all the answers. No one has
all the answers. But, you know, if you're 13, a

(28:44):
16 year old probably doesn't have all the answers. And.
Helping them recognize that. The more stridently someone speaks about
a topic isn't necessarily tied to the level of truth

(29:04):
and accuracy.

S3 (29:05):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

S1 (29:07):
But man, it is. It's a job. Like, it's really tough.

S2 (29:13):
Okay, so that's the platforms and yeah, I think you've
articulated that pretty well.

S1 (29:18):
So hang on. Going back to guidelines and stuff though. Like.

S2 (29:22):
This is what I'm going to get at now. So
in terms of duration.

S3 (29:26):
Yep.

S2 (29:27):
Uh, and looking at those averages 15 hours a day.

S3 (29:31):
Um.

S2 (29:34):
What? How do you monitor the usage?

S1 (29:40):
So both of our kids have got Apple phones and
so do I. And so do you. But they're tied
to my apple ID so I can monitor their screen
time on my phone just because we set up as
like a family. I can't remember how I did it,
to be perfectly honest. But that's helpful. Just to keep again,

(30:00):
just to keep a finger on the pulse of like
what they're actually doing, you know? And I know. So
their school has a phone ban, a very strict phone ban,
which is awesome. And all public schools in our state
will be bringing first phone in at the beginning of
the final term of the year. Yeah, I am. So

(30:21):
for that. Seeing how their school has managed it, I'm
incredibly impressed and I think the school benefits over and over.
The kids benefit, the teachers benefit. Of course kids are
going to push back and they hate it and they
whinge about it and parents whinge about it. But for me,
I'm all in.

S2 (30:41):
So just just to interrupt. So do you have do
we have.

S3 (30:44):
I should say.

S2 (30:46):
Uh, like limits, daily limits on on tech usage?

S1 (30:50):
Oh, like not we don't have like a 60 minute limit.
We used to when they were in primary school and
it was like, can I play Minecraft or whatever you say, Yes,
you've got an hour. I'll set the timer. Um. It's
tricky because both of them will often have YouTube on
while they're doing other things, which again does not compute
for me. I can't do that. But you can.

S2 (31:11):
100% that.

S3 (31:12):
Works. So you.

S1 (31:12):
Work and you've got YouTube videos on like that on.

S2 (31:15):
So YouTube videos. I've got music playing on YouTube or.

S3 (31:21):
Like like you have.

S1 (31:21):
A game like a sports match on.

S3 (31:23):
Sometimes, correct? Yeah.

S2 (31:24):
So I'll have like a sports game in the background
not playing a lot.

S3 (31:29):
I could not do that for.

S2 (31:30):
Some reason and it's because I've worked in quite busy,
noisy offices with TVs on like kind of like newsroom
type places. For some reason it just I need that
sort of background noise sometimes, other times. I'm. Yeah. I

(31:51):
don't have anything on. Yeah. Yeah, they're like that. So
they finish their homework or. Or they might be reviewing
or revising something they will have. And I've gone in
to our daughter's room and she's got like relaxing music
playing on, on YouTube. Yeah.

S1 (32:06):
Well, she likes watching. Yeah, they both like watching like. Um,
like film critiques and like, content about gaming and that
sort of stuff. Again, it's not my jam, but that's
what I've had to do as they've gotten older and
their their interests and their tastes and their preferences have
started to really become their own. And I'm like, That's

(32:29):
not mine. That's okay. Like I've had to let go
of that. I've had to go, okay. Their brains work
differently to mine. They can do their revision, their science
revision while they've got this thing on in the background
or whatever. Um, that's been helpful for me to recognize
that there are many ways of. Existing in like a

(32:53):
tech connected world that aren't going to be super duper
detrimental to the brain. So that's part of that echo
chamber that I was talking about before, like having to
let go of the quiet black and white mentality around
that has been helpful for me, and I'm a hell
of a lot more relaxed than I used to be.
So we don't have like an, you know, minutes per

(33:14):
day kind of limit, but obviously there's no. Tech. And
until they've done their homework, you know they can't.

S3 (33:25):
Which is on a computer.

S1 (33:27):
Exactly. And that's the other thing. It's really hard to
draw that distinction now, whereas we used to write everything
by hand and it was like, you know, then you'd
go and play. Yeah, back in my day I'd use
a tablet and a piece of chalk.

S2 (33:40):
One thing that I'm a real huge fan of and
it gets to this privacy thing is open door policy. Yes,
the door needs to be opened at all time. When
you're using tech. Yep. I don't care if I can
hear your conversation. Yeah, often I don't because you're wearing

(34:00):
a headset, but at least there's that. Like, it's just.
It's almost like a reminder for the kids. Like you're.
Like we're around. Like they're safe. Yeah, like I'm looking
after you. And if they say, Oh, Dad, I need privacy,
I'm like, I'm protecting your privacy. Yeah. Yeah, That's my.

S3 (34:18):
Number one concern.

S1 (34:19):
To a friend. Different situation. But that's not that common,
to be perfectly honest. They don't sit and talk on
the phone like we used to. Um, so, yes, open
door policy. I'm not a big fan of earbuds or
headphones when the kids are watching stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I'm
actually not a fan of this. A lot of a

(34:41):
lot of kids do it. They keep their AirPods in
while they're talking to people now. And that is something
that I actually have a huge issue with. And I've
said it to both the kids. It feels like there's
a wall there between it's rude. Sure. Yeah, that feels
like I didn't want to say that because it sounds judgmental,
but I find it rude if it's our kids. So

(35:03):
I'm like, Take them out, let's talk. But also in
terms of, you know, guidelines and stuff, the kids will
come home. We're really lucky in that you or I
is almost always home when the kids get home. So
it's sort of part of our afternoon rhythm that they
come home, they'll have something to eat. Even if it's

(35:23):
only 15 or 20 minutes, they'll chat, they'll talk about
their day, you know, and it gives their brains a
minute to decompress because I know at school they're on
screens a lot. Not as much as I think I assumed,
but they are on screens a lot. Then they've got
like a 45 minute bus trip home. Apparently they both
listen to music a lot on the way home, and

(35:44):
I believe that then they come home and I just
want them to have a minute to decompress, to talk,
to look people in the eye. I don't mind if
they're in a bad mood. I don't mind if they
don't want to talk, but to have the opportunity to.
And then it's homework. And then after that, if there's
nothing else on, if there's no other activity, if there's,
you know. I'm not getting them to help with dinner

(36:05):
or whatever. They might play a game or watch YouTube
and then later in the night. We have a very
strict no phones in the bedroom for anyone.

S3 (36:17):
That's for us.

S2 (36:18):
And it has been like that for us in our
in our bedroom, especially for as long as I can remember,
since probably.

S1 (36:26):
I know when the kids were really little, so probably
the first smartphone I ever had, I would use it
at night in bed. Yeah. And that was it. That
was sort of the line in the sand for me.
So no one has a phone? Um, no one has
their computers in their rooms.

S3 (36:44):
So we have.

S1 (36:45):
Made it a big difference.

S3 (36:47):
Absolutely.

S2 (36:47):
Do you want to talk about the tech box, if
you like. Like the tech?

S3 (36:54):
Space. Yeah.

S1 (36:55):
It's just somewhere that everyone can go and charge their phones.
One of our kids still uses his iPad. Sorry about
the noise. The dogs are being weird. Um. Yeah, everything
just gets charged in the same place.

S2 (37:22):
And that's it's like a visual reminder for the kids
to put their devices in the tech box after they've
like basically at dinner time. Yep. Because after that it's
usually unless one of them needs to revise something for
an exam the next.

S1 (37:39):
Day, 99% of the time.

S3 (37:41):
It's not going.

S2 (37:41):
To be like that. Yeah. So what do you. How
could we improve? I guess is the next question.

S1 (37:52):
So there are definitely times where. So there are definitely
times where. It's convenient. Even at the age of the
kids now, like if you and I have a lot
of work going on, like the kids are going to

(38:17):
push the boundaries. Of course they are. I would have
as well at their age. So I guess just recognizing
that that's what they're doing and that's fine. That's pretty
normal behavior. And B, maybe. I don't know. I was
going to say like have a whole lot of alternatives
for them. They know that I want to do the alternative.

S2 (38:38):
Covid really smashed us for that, I think, because, yes,
tech was just such an integral, an essential part of
our lives back then. Yep. And a lot of the habits.
A lot of those. Usage have just kept going. Not not,

(39:00):
not kept going. But I feel like without Covid, we'd
be in a different space. Would you agree with that?

S1 (39:06):
No, I think that I think that. Our kids have
a fairly moderate use of tech and we've got a
fairly good grasp on that at the moment. You know,
we have lots of conversations about it. They roll their
eyes about it, they get sick of me talking about it,

(39:28):
but I can always tell them why. Yeah, we have
those points of view and why it's not going to
change or what things. We are open to changing over time,
you know? And I think that Covid hit at the
stage where the kids were still very much in our
sphere of influence and now. That sphere of influence has

(39:50):
expanded a lot. Yeah. You know, being in year seven
and year eight at a much bigger school, they're both older,
they've both got smartphones. So I don't. Necessarily think that.
We would be in a different place if it wasn't
for Covid, I think. I understand what you're saying, but
I think that would be the case maybe if the

(40:12):
kids were younger, but it's sort of transitioning out. Of
Covid has happened at the same time as them transitioning into.
A whole new phase of life and phase of tech use.
You know.

S2 (40:27):
I know what you're saying, but I totally disagree.

S1 (40:30):
As is your right.

S2 (40:45):
So moving on now. Do you want to. For a
second part of the interview.

S3 (40:53):
And what is it?

S1 (40:54):
To close it out, we've got to close it out. Yeah.

S3 (40:57):
Okay.

S2 (41:00):
So. How do you want to close it out?

S1 (41:08):
So we kind of wrapped up with the guidelines. Yeah.

S3 (41:11):
And then I said, What.

S2 (41:11):
Would you want to change? And you didn't really answer
that question.

S1 (41:15):
Okay, So let's go back to that. Okay. So you
asked me, though. Sorry.

S3 (41:20):
Yeah. Going back.

S2 (41:21):
To my original.

S3 (41:22):
Question.

S1 (41:23):
What would I change? What would I. What would I
do better?

S2 (41:27):
Yeah.

S3 (41:27):
And speak for.

S2 (41:29):
Yourself. Speak on behalf of yourself. But also with the
kids as well, I guess. But do not dare mention
me in this. Okay.

S3 (41:41):
Um.

S1 (41:43):
Sometimes I worry about. The content that they're consuming. And
it's because. I can't. I can't watch it all. You
know what I mean? Like I.

S3 (41:57):
What do you mean?

S2 (41:59):
You want to. You want to watch it before them?

S1 (42:01):
No, I don't. It's. It's not possible for me to.
Like when, you know, our daughter started reading more widely.
I would often read the books before her. Yeah. So
that a I had something, you know, we had conversation to,

(42:21):
to have about it, but be just as like a
bit of a screening. There weren't many things that I
stopped her from reading because I think that it's important,
especially with, with books. And I know that was certainly
the case for me. That's how you learn, you know,
that's how you figure out what you, you know what
you like, where you fit, all that sort of stuff.

(42:42):
But it was always good for me to know. What
was happening there and the.

S2 (42:49):
A laugh because it's so strange. Books were basically when
I was our daughter's age. I was reading Stephen King.

S1 (42:59):
Right. Okay. Yeah. And how messed up are you because
of that?

S3 (43:05):
Not at all.

S2 (43:06):
That was more like that was me pushing boundaries or almost,
you know, that was me going on websites that I
shouldn't be going on like the equivalent. Maybe it's not.

S3 (43:17):
I don't think it is, though. Probably not. This is
what I'm saying. I'm just.

S2 (43:20):
I'm trying. Like, are we being too protective?

S1 (43:24):
Sometimes I worry about that. I do. But kids are
a long time growing up and I just think there
is so much out there that has such detrimental impacts
on them. Like we were talking about porn. Yes, that's
the obvious one. But there's a whole Internet worth of
stuff that can mess up a mind and. I don't

(43:50):
feel bad about limiting access to that. Yeah. So I
think sometimes I do tend to trust our kids in
terms of the content that they're consuming because we have
the open door policy because, you know, they know we.

S3 (44:05):
Can get on a lot and because.

S1 (44:07):
They know we can get on their phones at any point.
They know that we monitor their screen time via my phone.
They know all of that and they're fine with it,
which makes me trust them. But I also know how
easy it is to fall into spaces online that are
not safe, that are not okay, that are not going
to leave you feeling okay. And I know that as

(44:27):
an adult, as a, you know, a tween, a teen,
someone who's still trying to.

S2 (44:33):
Someone in.

S3 (44:33):
Between. Yeah.

S1 (44:37):
That's very easy to, you know, to fall into that
that trap. So I guess my answer to your question
is maybe. Monitoring the content. I don't know. I don't
know because I'm really torn between what you're saying of like,
are we overprotective?

S3 (44:58):
I think we're doing a pretty good job. Yeah.

S2 (45:02):
Like at the moment, I think it's it's, it's we're
doing a pretty good job. I'd like to slightly reduce
the amount of time there on YouTube, but that seems
to be like a problem worldwide at the moment. I
would like to stop the amount of time I'm on YouTube.

S1 (45:17):
So I have blown up about YouTube recently. Like I really.
I hate it. I kind of hate it.

S3 (45:26):
Do you? Yeah, I.

S2 (45:28):
Why would you hate it? I'm not out of any.

S3 (45:32):
I hate social. Like I actually hate them all.

S1 (45:34):
Okay, I really do. So he's going back to what
I was saying at the beginning of our conversation, how
I get angry and ashamed because I'm ashamed that our
generation is failing our kids. Yeah, that's truly how I feel. And.
I'm angry because bastards like Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk
and whoever else or the tech bros are, they are

(45:57):
making billions of dollars off people's misery and. What's even
worse is that most of the time kids don't understand
that they're miserable. Like I'm going to get really emotional.
It really? It makes me so mad that people are

(46:19):
making so much money off. Mental health crisis in kids.
And I know that the content creators on the whole
are not the problem. Like I get it, most kids
grow up and they're like, I want to be a YouTuber.
I want like, they're not growing up saying, I want
to destroy someone's body image. I want to spread misinformation.

(46:42):
I want to, you know, blow up conspiracy. Like they're
not saying that. No one's saying that. They're like, I
want to make fun videos with my friends. It's this
machine that people get stuck in and that machine twists
things around and makes people create content that is just
that slightly bit more extreme and slightly and slightly and
slightly until you've got money wrapped up in it and

(47:04):
you've got all sorts of nefarious stuff wrapped up in
it and.

S3 (47:09):
It is just.

S1 (47:11):
Destroying the way the kids, the way kids see themselves
in the world and. That's no joke. That's not an
easy thing to come back from. It is a crisis.
I'm going to link in the show notes to a
study that came out recently. I'm not across it enough
to quote any of it, but it was really eye

(47:31):
opening for me to see the the data, like the
black and white numbers that show the link, not saying
which is causing which, but showing the link between the
advent of smartphones and social media with the beginning of
the current mental health crisis. Um.

S2 (47:51):
Yeah. Without a. Without a doubt. It is connected.

S3 (47:54):
Yeah.

S2 (47:54):
Like it's.

S1 (47:57):
And then, you know, that's not even going into the
data mining and, you know.

S2 (48:02):
Algorithms.

S3 (48:03):
And but.

S1 (48:04):
Like the people who are selling all the information about
all the things that we watch and all the websites
we visit and, you know, creating these. Uh, you know,
online versions. I forget what the word is like the,
you know, the online versions of us that they then
sell to. Yeah. No, it's like a there's a word

(48:26):
and I've just blanked on it, but.

S2 (48:27):
Ready? Player one.

S1 (48:30):
Sort of like an avatar, actually. Like an avatar. Yeah.
They're creating these avatars of us based on what kids
are watching. And they're using it to sell stuff. You know, So, look,

(48:54):
I could. I could rant. I could.

S3 (48:57):
But that's why.

S2 (48:57):
I'm always shocked when the when you do get ads
on on YouTube or Instagram, because they're designed or they're
they're trying to be designed for you.

S3 (49:08):
Right? Yeah. I mean.

S2 (49:09):
And the amount of hair loss ones I've had recently
an erectile dysfunction. Not a happy man.

S3 (49:17):
You hit.

S1 (49:17):
40 and they're like, Well, obviously this.

S3 (49:19):
Is relevant.

S2 (49:19):
Oh, we should get one of these problems at least.

S1 (49:23):
But I mean, that's like basic that's like birth date stuff, right?
And it's just kind of playing the numbers, but it's
when it's, like really specific.

S3 (49:34):
Oh, no.

S1 (49:34):
Specific things.

S3 (49:35):
I shot.

S2 (49:37):
That turns me off if it's really specific. Like you
mentioned something and then you look at your screen and
then it's, you know, there's an ad for something like
I just it I disconnect. Then I'm like, I'll put
it down.

S3 (49:52):
That's just too.

S2 (49:52):
Spooky. It's just gross. And I mean, what a. What
a mammoth topic that would probably hardly scratch the surface on.
So we probably will. It's probably a revisit at some stage.

S1 (50:07):
Yeah, I think it probably is. It may even be
like a. I don't know. Like a alive.

S3 (50:17):
Coal with people love coal.

S1 (50:20):
I'm just thinking it literally just.

S2 (50:21):
Dawned on you popped.

S1 (50:22):
Into my head. But it could be something that maybe
if people are interested, um, we could have, like, a community.

S2 (50:29):
Discussion on it.

S3 (50:30):
Yeah.

S2 (50:31):
Yeah.

S1 (50:32):
I don't know, because I think you're right. There's just.
There was a lot of emotion in that conversation and
hopefully some practical as.

S2 (50:41):
We said at the start, it's one of the biggest
issues facing parents today, if not society as a whole.
Western society.

S1 (50:48):
Yeah, and it's certainly not just kids. And that's the
other thing. I don't want kids and I don't want
our kids. I don't want any kids to feel like.
The amount of time they spend on their screen is
a personal failing. And that's something that we have said
to our kids many times, is, you know, when the
hooks get their way into your brain, yeah, that's not

(51:11):
your fault. That is not a failing on you as
a person. That is a failing, that is a design
of the system. Like you are up against an entire
industry of people whose job it is, is to keep
your eyes on your screen. That's all. They don't care
if they're making you happy. They don't care if they're
making you sad. They don't care if your mental health

(51:32):
is crumbling because of what they're serving you. All they
care about is your eyeballs on that screen. So I
think reminding our kids, not making them feel like they're
failing somehow, and also reminding ourselves when we beat ourselves
up for the exact same reason. This is not a

(51:52):
personal failing. This is not a moral failing. This is
not a reflection on you not being strong enough or
strong willed enough.

S2 (52:01):
This is the machine.

S3 (52:02):
It is.

S1 (52:04):
And. I think that's a really important, compassionate thing to
begin with.

S2 (52:10):
And of those words that you used then saying that
it's not your fault, you've used those with our kids.
So I know. They work, you know, engages with them
in a way that they're like, wow. Makes them think. Yeah.
It really makes them think, Yeah. Now let's jump over

(52:32):
to talk about.

S1 (52:35):
So our reflection. You know, we always like we have
a conversation our reflection. Yeah. And it's always just something
that I have consumed over the past few weeks that has.
I don't know, lit me up or interested me or
got me thinking. So previously it's been an article that
I've read or a comment over on Substack. So this

(52:59):
time it is a documentary, one that I watched yesterday.
I was lucky enough to get a pre screener from
the pre-release screener, from the producers who asked actually if
I wanted to have the director on as a podcast
guest and we don't do interviews anymore. They sent me
a and.

S2 (53:18):
I said, no way, Jose, I'm the only guest on
this show.

S3 (53:22):
Now. Exactly.

S1 (53:23):
And they sent me a screener anyway, and I loved it.
So it's called Rachel's Farm, and it is a I
know some of the people involved were the same team
who made 2040 a few years ago, which was.

S3 (53:39):
Great.

S2 (53:40):
Documentary.

S1 (53:40):
Really awesome documentary, Hope Filled. And. You know, ask the
big questions about what the world might look like in 2040.
If we did these five things. This is in a
similar vein, and it's very uplifting, but it's also a
much smaller story. So Rachel is Rachel Ward, who is
an actress.

S2 (54:02):
Australian actor.

S1 (54:03):
She's English actually.

S3 (54:05):
But English actress.

S1 (54:06):
She lives in Australia, has for a long time, is
married to Brian Brown. The most Australian of actors. Isn't Brown.

S3 (54:13):
Isn't he.

S2 (54:14):
A New Zealander?

S1 (54:15):
Oh God, don't think so.

S2 (54:16):
I am going to check that while you keep going.

S3 (54:18):
Russell Crowe is.

S1 (54:19):
A New Zealander. I know we like claiming things for ourselves,
but anyway, so she owns some property up on the
Northern Rivers and. The entire premise of the documentary is
her transitioning that land to regenerative farmed land region agriculture. Sorry,

(54:43):
Go ahead.

S2 (54:45):
Pannonia He was born. So a very Aussie, very Australian.

S1 (54:50):
Uh, what I really like about it is that she
begins by basically owning up to her own ignorance. And
the story also begins as a result of the Black
Summer bushfires and her personal despair and the depression and
the anxiety and the overwhelm and almost the. Complete shutting

(55:14):
down that she did emotionally as a result of it.
And that is something that I can relate to very closely. Yeah. Um,
she called herself thin skinned at one point in the
documentary in that she feels things incredibly deeply and they
really affect her. And I.

S3 (55:30):
That's you? Yeah.

S2 (55:31):
You got translucent skin.

S3 (55:32):
Yeah.

S1 (55:34):
I'm sure sometimes I don't even have any skin. Um.
So I know that there are a lot of people
who read at the Tortoise and who listened to the
podcast who are similarly inclined. Like we've got a lot
of big feelers in our audience, and I think that
this will resonate with them because of that, but also

(55:54):
because they're people who are looking for a way forward.
And this was Rachel Ward's way forward. She's like, I
used to run cattle on this land, and over the
last 30 years, we have degraded this land. And they
showed like they measure their topsoil and there's hardly any
left and there's no biodiversity. And, you know, it's about

(56:17):
the very long, very real, very honest process.

S3 (56:20):
Very slow.

S1 (56:21):
Well, yeah, very slow.

S2 (56:23):
Tortoise the.

S1 (56:24):
Process of. Regenerating that land through using. Cattle through using
indigenous wisdom and knowledge. It's really, really cool and very
human like they. Make mistakes. They show the tough stuff,

(56:45):
you know, and I don't think we see that very often.

S2 (56:49):
What was that show that we watched during lockdown, I think.
And it was an American. It just sounds a bit
like this, where they ran a farm.

S1 (56:58):
Like Apricot.

S3 (56:59):
Lane.

S1 (57:00):
Farm or something like that. And they had the pig.

S3 (57:01):
Yes, that.

S1 (57:02):
One. Yeah. Yeah. Not dissimilar. I don't think.

S3 (57:05):
I feel like it's very.

S2 (57:06):
Similar to that.

S3 (57:06):
Yeah.

S1 (57:07):
And. It's interesting to me for a few reasons. So
these guys, they run cattle and that remains part of
their business strategy is to run cattle. She's a vegetarian
and she's like, that was partly because of, you know,
environmental reasons. So to see her not become not a vegetarian,

(57:28):
but to see her recognize that running cattle responsibly and
regenerative can actually become part of the solution was really interesting.
And also because their property used to be managed by
an older farmer who was very traditional, very industrial farming
with his methods and for very good reasons, you know,

(57:51):
it's the way he'd always done it and it had
always served them fairly well. His son comes in and
after a number of years says this is not sustainable
and goes around. His dad has a lot of difficult
conversations with his dad about changing the way they farm.
And his dad's like, I can't I can't agree with you.
So it's like this microcosm of generational change of, you know,

(58:16):
a new generation of people coming up. And being prepared
to put their money where their mouth is, quite literally
in some instances and make the difficult. You can't literally
put your money.

S3 (58:31):
Right.

S1 (58:31):
Where your mouth is. Anyway, I found it really inspiring.
I found it really uplifting. Um. I felt like. Um,
I felt like, hopeful. I felt. Yeah, that was possibility

(58:52):
wrapped up in it, you know?

S3 (58:53):
Um.

S2 (58:54):
Did it make it feel accessible or not? Or did
it make it sound like it's two too much hard work?

S3 (59:01):
What?

S1 (59:01):
It made it. It sound like it's a lot of
hard work and probably too much hard work for most
people to do, including Brian Brown. Actually, he even said
that he's like, I couldn't do what they're doing. There's
no way you don't don't want to work that hard. But.
It made it. Accessible to us as consumers. To be

(59:24):
supporting people who are doing this work. No, that's that's
where change comes. Like, there's going to be a select
group of people who have the knowhow, who have the money,
who have the capacity, who have the land and the desire.
That's not not going to be a lot of people.
But if everyone who believes in what they're doing supports
them when they can, they're going to be able to

(59:47):
continue doing what they're doing. You know? And I thought
that was a really. Important part of the whole message.
We sort of. Making clear how it is a system.
And a number of people said in the documentary, everything
and everyone is connected and that goes to. Rewriting the

(01:00:10):
rules of the system. You know, we don't have to
be reliant on. A couple of big industrial producers we
can actually. Shift to a more community minded, regenerative minded
way of attaining food, not just meat. You know, she
also talks a little bit about vegetables and things. So anyway.

S3 (01:00:30):
Where can.

S2 (01:00:30):
People go to.

S3 (01:00:31):
Find out?

S1 (01:00:31):
In Australia it is being released in cinemas the first
week of August on a limited run at this point.
But if there is a cinema near you screening it,
I just really recommend and encourage you to go because
the more bums in seats they get at these films,
the more sessions they're going to be able to run,

(01:00:51):
the more, you know, successful it will be. But I
know Rachel Ward is actually doing quite a significant tour
with the film, so check on the film. I'll leave
a link to this in the show notes to the website,
but check over there and see if she's coming to
somewhere near you. You might want to go along and
have a listen to a Q&A with her. I know

(01:01:15):
in the States she's touring September, October, and I'm assuming
that not long after that it will be available to stream. Um.
Whether it's on Apple or it gets picked up by
one of the streamers, I don't know. But yeah, definitely
go over to a website Rachel's farm.com you think it
is and you can get on the mailing list and

(01:01:36):
check out what they're doing. But yeah, I thought I
really wanted to put that in front of people because
I really enjoyed it.

S2 (01:01:45):
Well, that's been a. Pretty long and winding episode really
been interrupted a lot. But we've persevered. We have. We're
going to spare the listener to those interruptions, so we'll
do some editing. Even though this is a non edited podcast, it's.

S1 (01:02:04):
Typically very non edited.

S2 (01:02:06):
But some of it is quite unlistenable.

S3 (01:02:09):
So no one needs.

S1 (01:02:10):
To hear the dogs barking that much new. Well, honey,
enjoy your holiday.

S3 (01:02:16):
I'll be there.

S2 (01:02:17):
You're coming. Just a nice little week holiday to, uh. Yeah.
Reset for the beginning. Beginning of the financial year. Why
am I your best with this?

S3 (01:02:29):
You're not even.

S1 (01:02:30):
Accountant.

S3 (01:02:31):
Oh.

S1 (01:02:33):
Anyway, that's fine. We can have a little New Year's
Eve party if you'd like.

S2 (01:02:38):
Very good. Very good.

S1 (01:02:40):
Well, we'll be back in your ears next month. But
in the meantime, if you want to know what I'm
up to, I'm writing over at the tortoise a couple
of times a week. Most weeks. If you wanted to
head over there and jump on the tortoise mailing list,
I would love to have you. There's quite a few
thousand of us over there now, and it's developing into
a really beautiful little corner of the Internet or some

(01:03:02):
little community. Um, so yeah, head over to Brooklyn Gallery
substack.com if you want to join us over there. That's
where you'll also find the links in from today's episode.
I think that's it.

S2 (01:03:24):
We always value your feedback whether that's. Yeah. Over on
the sub stacks or iTunes, Spotify ratings, reviews, likes and
shares or very appreciative of of that.

S1 (01:03:38):
So also if.

S3 (01:03:40):
You're very.

S1 (01:03:41):
If the idea of having a conversation about technology like
if you know kids or if there's something in particular.

S2 (01:03:49):
Because we know this is a this is a big
topic for the amount of questions we've had on this
topic over the years, it would have to be in
the top three themes and topics to discuss.

S1 (01:04:02):
Yeah, it's certainly something that we would consider maybe hosting.
Q&A or something with our community.

S3 (01:04:11):
Do a live.

S2 (01:04:11):
Podcast.

S1 (01:04:12):
Well, maybe we maybe we could.

S2 (01:04:14):
To to tortoise subscribers. Yeah. I going to be pretty fun. Okay.

S1 (01:04:19):
So anyway, if that interests you at all, if you
feel like there's more mileage to this conversation, leave a
comment on today's episode and.

S2 (01:04:30):
Leave a tortoise emoji. Okay.

S3 (01:04:34):
Sure. That's quick.

S1 (01:04:35):
I like it. Love that little tortoise emoji. He looks
very friendly, but, you know, and we'll take a level
of interest from there and see what happens. But until then, peace.
Have a wonderful day. Take good care.

UU (01:04:48):
And we'll see you soon.