October 14, 2025 • 26 mins
💡 Episode Summary
What happens when God asks you to walk away from everything safe and start over?
In this deeply honest conversation, leadership coach and consultant Shylla Webb joins Jim to share her powerful story of waking up at 3 a.m. with a clear word from God: “Resign.” That single moment launched a journey from burnout and fear to holistic, Spirit-led leadership.
Together, they unpack what it means to integrate faith into your leadership, navigate the unknown with courage, and transform betrayal and heartbreak into gratitude and growth.
If you’ve ever wrestled with fear, burnout, or obedience to your calling—this episode will remind you that God’s direction is always tied to His protection.
🧭 Key Topics
- Hearing and obeying God’s call, even when it doesn’t make sense
- Transitioning from security to surrender
- What holistic leadership really means (beyond buzzwords)
- Healing from betrayal and setting healthy boundaries
- Redefining “protection” and learning discernment
- Using gratitude as a tool for growth
- Daily practices to stay grounded in faith and purpose
📖 Faith Connection
“I don’t know how I’m going to make it through this, but God, I’m committed to making it through.” — Shylla Webb
This episode is a masterclass in faith over fear. Shylla’s story reminds us that the Holy Spirit still speaks, that obedience is costly but worth it, and that miracles often hide inside ordinary moments of surrender.
Scripture echoes her story:
- “Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.” — Proverbs 19:21
- “We walk by faith, not by sight.” — 2 Corinthians 5:7
👩💼 Guest Bio – Shylla Webb
Shylla Webb is a leadership coach, consultant, and keynote speaker specializing in holistic leadership and burnout resilience. After two decades in education, she followed God’s prompting to step away from her secure career and start Inner Matter™, a leadership consultancy helping organizations build emotionally intelligent, spiritually grounded cultures. She equips teams to lead with authenticity, compassion, and courage—bridging the gap between professional excellence and personal wholeness.
🌐 Website: innermatter.net
📱 Connect: Facebook
Resources
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- Full Episode Show Notes & Transcript: www.leadwithjim.com/podcast
Connect with Jim
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is the unshakable life Mindset.
Resilience, action.
No strife.
Break free from the burnout.
Find your true north.
With your guy Jim Burgoonstepping forward.
(00:23):
This is the unshakable life.
Hey, friends.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm excited you're here.
Thank you for listening withus today.
I'm excited to be here with afriend of mine, Isla Webb.
We've known each other forquite a long time, and you're going
to be blessed by this episode.
So make sure you grab yourpaper, maybe whatever beverage you
have.
Mine today is a chai latte tea.
(00:44):
So I hope you're going toenjoy the rest of this episode.
And without further ado,welcome to the show, Shaila.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me on the show, Jim.
I'm excited to be here.
Hey, why don't you do me afavor, because I don't know if my
audience knows you and theyshould know you, so why don't you
take the next 90, 90 secondsand let people know what you do?
(01:05):
Okay.
Well, I'm a leadership coach,and I primarily work as well as a
consultant, I primarily workon holistic leadership.
So we have to start recognizing.
I believe that we need tostart recognizing our whole selves
come into work, as well aswhat happens at work goes to home.
So I go into organizations, Ispeak, I give keynotes, I do transformational
(01:26):
leadership workshops andvarious various forms of training
along that lines.
I come from a background ofeducation and left as an administrator,
woke up in the middle of thenight and just felt compelled to
resign, to go completelyindependent so that I could support
organizations beyond just thepublic education system.
(01:47):
So I also focus on burnout,resiliency, and those type of practical
tips in which we can do toimprove our life, our daily lives.
Thank you for that.
Well, you.
You're on the right podcastbecause this is what we talk about.
Resilience, burnout, and allthe things in between.
I love this.
So I want to unpack this.
So I don't know if you knew this.
I'm actually a former teacheras well.
(02:08):
I was in the education 10years working with special needs
as a behavioral specialist and things.
So I want to start with thatbecause I'm going to dive.
I'm going to go a couple places.
I want to start with, you'reresigning, but we're going to also
dive into what holisticleadership looks like.
So with you waking up in the.
In the middle of the night andbe like, all right, I'm done.
Was there Fear around that,because that's, That's.
(02:31):
That's pretty, Pretty courageous.
So explain to me what you werefeeling during that time and.
And the leap you took.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, one would think, youknow, I spent 27 years in education.
I'm probably at the level ofburnout like most educators go through,
or, you know, education administrators.
It was right before COVID even happened.
And, you know, I was workingwith my colleagues, and they would
(02:53):
say, we know you're only goingto be here for a little while, and
we're, we're excited to haveyour expertise while you're here.
Meaning I brought a lot to thedistrict with recognizing emotional
intelligence and of course,resiliency and, you know, just things
along those lines andunderstanding behavior a lot more
because my background is alsoworking with students with emotional
behavioral disorders, autismand learning disabilities.
(03:14):
So.
Yeah, but it was just one ofthose things.
Like, I just had this deepercalling within me that just finally
came out.
That's all I can say because Iwould tell my colleagues, like, no,
I'm here for at least 10.
10 years.
Without a doubt.
I'm definitely here, you know,for at least 10 years.
And then all of a sudden, Iwoke up in the middle of the night
and I literally heard.
(03:35):
And I know people think like,you're crazy, but it was so loud
and clear that it was justlike, you need to resign.
It's time to resign.
And I remember, like.
But I was so inspired by Matt.
I actually came down here tomy office to type out the letter
of resignation, and I printedit out.
This is like at 3 o' clock inthe morning.
I printed it out, put it in afolder and sat with it for a couple
(03:58):
days.
And I thought, have I lost my.
My mind?
This is a great job.
I worked.
I had.
Yeah, I love the people that Iworked with.
I love the district I was in.
But there was something in me that.
It was almost like the birdthat needs to leave the nest and
soar and fly.
And so a couple days later, Ihanded it in.
(04:18):
Nice.
I bet you that was a greatfeeling because I remember when I
handed my resignation in, itwas awesome.
So this brings up a great question.
Or actually just my mind isbubbling with questions.
Like, for instance, you'relike, I finally accepted my calling.
I did it.
I woke up in the middle of the night.
And first and foremost, you'renot crazy.
We have the Holy Spirit.
So to our listener, to you whoare listening, if you are a Christian,
(04:38):
we have the Holy Spirit.
And the Holy Spirit doesimpress upon us speak through dreams
and things like that.
So how long were you sittingon this calling before the dream
that woke you up and thevoices that he spoke to you?
Good question.
Probably a couple years.
I had dove deep intomindfulness and how to bring it into
(05:00):
the education system.
I dove deep into yogapractices and really also with my
church and just learning tosit in silence.
Right.
In prayer and contemplationand all of that.
And with that, there wassomething that just kept unlocking
inside me almost like a higherinspirational self and feeling levels
of joy at a much deeper levelthan I had ever experienced.
(05:23):
And.
And yeah, and I just gotdeeper into my own religion, which
is Christianity, that practiceand understanding.
And I felt like every time Ijust got closer to God.
And so the next thing I knew,I was being asked.
I was an administrator, butthe teachers within the district
were hiring me on the side todo their professional development
(05:44):
in the way that I believe in avery interactive, immersive, like,
experience, not just a sit andget model.
I also see myself as one ofthem, even though I was considered,
you know, at a higher, like,ranking wise.
Right.
If we look at, like the tierstructure within an organization,
which I kind of roll my eye that.
And so it was just what I wasfinding was I was getting deeper
connections that I was thenbeing asked to go and work with sales
(06:07):
teams in the summer and otherteams, and it just kept expanding.
And so it finally got to thispoint of working 50, 60 hours as
an administrator but doingthese side jobs.
That's where I left feelinglit up and just fulfilled and just
so deeply connected with thepeople that I was working with and
doing trainings with that Ithink that's what led to there.
(06:30):
I don't, you know, it's hardto even pinpoint to be exact.
Yeah.
So then this brings up awonderful question.
Did you feel that you werelike, like not accepting your calling,
running from it, or did youfeel like it was more, you need it
to grow and mature before youcan actually accept it?
Like, what does that look like?
(06:51):
I would say probably grow and mature.
Like, can I really make aliving doing this?
Was the question.
I'm a single mom, head ofhousehold, have a mortgage.
I don't have anyone that I canfall back on.
And left a really, really good salary.
A salary that providedfinancial, you know, responsibility
and stability for me.
(07:11):
Like, really, if you're goodin education, you're not going to
be fired or anything like that.
And so I think it was justmore maturity and all of a Sudden,
this need and desire tocontinue because I felt like in what
I was doing on the side was change.
I could see that it waschanging people's lives and they
were getting back to me a year later.
And that was happening ineducation too.
(07:33):
Like, I've had parents, I'llstill have parents.
Twenty years ago, I workedwith their kid and they'll, they'll
message me still today andjust say, thank you for the impact
that you made on my child.
And this is where they're atnow and I just want you to know,
or this is what they send.
I remember you used to saythat to them, you know, and it's
changing their lives andthings like that.
So it was just all of a suddenit was like I couldn't hold myself
(07:54):
back.
It just all of a sudden themomentum got going and it was just
time to go and leave.
It was, it was bittersweet.
It was truly bittersweetbecause I had conditioned self saying,
don't do that.
You have this great salary,something you can count on going
into the unknown.
Right.
It was totally a leap offaith, all I can say.
(08:14):
So being a single mom, whichnumber one we honor for that.
My mother was a single mother,so very much honor that.
Did you invite.
I don't know if your kids wereold enough at the time, but did you
invite them into the processsaying, hey, we're about to move
into something God has for us,but it's going to be hard for a little
while, or it was justsomething you're like, we'll figure
it out as we go, like, what?
(08:35):
How did you navigate those conversations?
Well, they were 2 and 3 when Isuddenly became a single mom.
And so at this point, I wantto say they were about 4 and 5, 5
and 6.
Okay.
And so no, there wasn't toinvite them into that conversation.
They were so young.
But I will say in my ownconversations with myself and God,
(08:57):
in that, in those moments ofsilence, they were the focus and
a lot of my beliefs and how tobe a mom and what kind of mom I wanted
to be and how I wanted them toremember me, they were the focus
of those conversations, thosehigher level spiritual conversations.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
With them being that young.
Mine are a little older, so.
(09:17):
Yeah, I get you.
But I was always curiousbecause I've heard both sides.
You know, whether peopleinvite their children into these
big steps or they just kind ofdo it when they're that young, I
totally get it.
So, so then let's, let'scircle back around because I want
to go into the conversation ofholistic leadership, because holistic
is a word that's thrown outaround there nowadays a lot.
(09:40):
Holistic nutrition andholistic this and.
But holistic leadership, howdid you come to that particular title,
like that niche?
What was the process for that?
I think at first it was morejust the essential leadership practices.
Right.
High performance, go with the grind.
This is what you need to do.
Be efficient.
This and.
And what I found, the morethat I would push that of myself
(10:03):
and I saw my colleagues do,actually, the more burnt out we were
getting.
Right.
It was working against us completely.
And so.
And I know, like, frommindfulness, there's just so much
and so many benefits to justbeing completely locked into the
present moment as it is.
Being in full acceptance andsurrender as it is.
Right.
And just being able.
(10:23):
The ability to pause or seeoutside of ourselves as the moment
or the events are happening,the experiences of life are happening.
And so in that journey, like Isaid, I just became.
I felt like I was gettingcloser to God and with God and really
developing a life around whatGod is asking me to do and starting
(10:45):
to take steps that way.
And so with education, we areto teach everything.
Public education specifically,everything needs to be secular.
But the reality is, is there'sa piece of us.
We are spiritual beings.
To me, I believe in a humanbody, and I'm not here to push that
agenda on anyone.
But there was a spiritualcomponent of our world in education
(11:08):
that we were dismissing.
And to me, it just felt likewe were really hurting as, you know,
as the humans.
And I don't know your age, butI'm 47.
And so when I first started inthe work, emotions were not allowed
in the workplace.
You left them at home.
Well, how do you do that?
(11:29):
If I'm happy at work, theemotions there with me, you know,
it doesn't matter.
But what they really meant isthe negative emotions don't happen
at work or shouldn't happen at work.
But then it was like I wasignoring a big part of myself or
if I look at, like, theeveryday miracles that happen in
our world, I was dismissingthat too, because I couldn't talk
about it.
(11:49):
Yeah.
And so that's when where itcame to, like, we do have to talk
about our spiritual sides,whatever that is for each individual.
That's wonderful.
I am also 47, so I totally getthe context.
We were growing up.
I grew up in Philadelphia, soit was kind of like, don't show emotions
because emotions was weakness.
Like, that's what you'reProgrammed with.
Yeah, we know that now thatthat's a bad program.
(12:12):
Yes.
So with this being theUnshakable Life podcast, Right.
I want to hear some things.
I'm going to dive some deeperinto this.
So let's pull back some curtains.
What were some of your, whatare some of your biggest challenges
in what you do, how you do it,or even just everyday life?
And in those challenges, howdo you protect yourself from giving
up or how do you protectyourself from burnout?
(12:34):
That's a good question.
So I would say what I do andthe challenge is not everyone's a
big believer.
And the work that I do, noteveryone, not every leader, they,
they come to me because theysee the results that other people
have had experience fromworking with me.
Right.
But then they come to me andthey don't want to talk about the
(12:56):
spiritual self.
They don't want to talk aboutthe side to them, the, you know,
the spiritual side of life, orthey're not quite believers.
And the miracles that arehappening all around us, right.
The miracles that they believein are the ones that people talk
about that everyday humansrarely ever experience.
Right.
In a bad car accident, you seethe light, all of that, all of a
(13:18):
sudden you're healed, type ofthat, type of real big miraculous.
But I believe big miracles arehappening in our simple everyday
life as long as we're willingto open up to that.
So I get a lot of pushbackfrom the condition self.
Like people, you know, it'stheir conditioned ways, not willing
to even dive into the unconscious.
(13:39):
I also have to use a lot ofdiscernment as far as like who I
share and what parts I shareof what I work with.
So not everyone's ready tohave these deep level spiritual conversations
right away, right?
Absolutely.
Go ahead, continue.
I was gonna say this.
And so then the second partcomes in.
How do you protect yourselffrom the burnout, from all of that?
Yeah.
So I stopped looking atprotection in the same way in which
(14:01):
I did once upon a time.
So to me, protection used tocome from a very fear based place,
place I needed protection.
I needed to keep people at a distance.
And now when I look atprotection, it is how am I going
to guide this journey or thisperson and how to be healthy relation,
like in our healthyrelationship with me.
That's what protection is more about.
(14:22):
How am I going to preservemyself in this situation right.
As it is, as it's showing upinstead of keeping away.
So I want to just be superclear on how I see protection now.
I also look at it.
Like the more, the closer I amwith God and the more driven I am
by my relationship with Godand all that I do and being directly
(14:45):
connected there and here, thatis what that just allows a natural
protection.
I don't have to worry so muchas anymore in the way that I used
that younger self, had toworry or felt like that's the story
I was telling myself anyhow.
So then, you know, I, I likewhat you're saying.
I love the way you, youcontact protection and reframe that.
(15:06):
That's a beautiful reframe.
But you're talking about fearbased and keeping people at a distance.
How have you overcome thatmistrust that you kept people at
a distance to where you pullpeople in now?
Like, what were some of thethings that you did in order to heal
from that?
Yeah, it takes work into theheart over and over again.
(15:27):
You know, allowing the heart,I think, to crack wide open from
a broken heart.
Right.
Gives us openness to the lightand the light of God to be with us
every single time, each timegoing within.
Like, how did I create that?
Because there were so manytimes, Jim, where I was mad at other
people, angry at other peoplefor betraying me.
(15:48):
But the reality is I betrayed myself.
Oh yeah.
That's where all of a suddenthe reckoning really happened.
I had to own that I allowedthis person.
I know they treat people this way.
I know that they've done it,they've done it to me before.
Three other times.
I allowed it again over and over.
(16:08):
And so I had to start takingownership of my own life and the
people.
Not everyone gets close accessto me.
Right.
I really value relationshipsand hold them as sacred relationships.
And if it's not sacredrelationship, then that to me already
determines what level accessthey have to me and my world now.
(16:29):
Not to say that they don't getaccess to me, but it's.
They're not going to get asmuch time, Right.
As much into my deep inner self.
Right.
That full vulnerability, fulldisclosure of my world as someone
that has shown me over timethat they do hold things sacred.
They're loyal, they'retrustworthy of just some of the basic
characteristics.
(16:49):
So you bring up some reallygood things here and I appreciate
the conversation of where thedirection is because you talk about.
I was angry at everybody, butthen I realized I was angry at myself.
What have you done with all ofthat anger?
I rumbled with it.
I rumbled with myself.
I did.
You know, in, in therapythere's the skill of catharsis where
(17:10):
you Just go in and you're in aprivate room and you just yell it
all out, right?
And you get it all out.
There's a lot.
I am one that once I build, Iwill just release and cry like a
full cry.
And so I sat with myself, Icried, I journaled, I dug in.
What is this about?
And I think the healthiest wayis to not be in a place of judgment,
but just stay in a place of curiosity.
(17:31):
I keep pulling back eachlayer, and I think there's also this
fine line of not going downthe rabbit hole in the way that we
make ourselves feel worse, right?
Bring us to a threshold inwhich we can't even handle anymore
of.
Of how unhealthy things feel, right?
And how deep and intense itgets is.
It is more from a place of curiosity.
As an outsider looking at itlike, huh, I wonder why.
(17:54):
Oh, I see now the connection.
How can I now, instead ofgoing back to mom and dad, like,
why did you do this?
Right?
This set me up for this in life.
None of that.
They did the very best thatthey could with what they had.
It is now, okay, now that Isee this, awesome.
I celebrate it.
And this is the intentionalchange that I'm going to take as
an adult to prevent this from happening.
(18:16):
So rumble with yourself is thefirst time I've ever heard that term.
And I love that.
I absolutely love that term.
So switching going into the.
Still going down this line.
All right, so you hadmentioned there were a couple people
that over and over betrayedyou, and you got that anger which
says lack of boundaries, right?
How did you decide?
How did you have the.
(18:37):
With it all to notice that youdon't have any boundaries?
And then what did you do tostart actually putting.
Putting boundaries into your life?
The very first thing I didwith one of the people that hurt
me the most was I privatelywrote him a thank you letter.
Interesting.
And maybe it was frommindfulness practice, the act of
gratitude that came forward inthat moment, but I just thought,
(18:58):
oh, shoot.
Thank you for helping me seewhat I haven't been seeing.
Thank you for helping me see Ididn't have much of a backbone, right?
An artbone that I had.
I wasn't using.
I wasn't taking a stand for myself.
Thank you.
Because now, now that I seeit, I can change it.
I can't do anything with it ifI'm unconscious about it and willing
(19:18):
to see it.
So to me, it was like, oh, mygosh, all of a sudden, it just unlocked.
What a gift.
Now I have something to workwith that I can see within myself
some of that.
Then I went and soughtfeedback from the people that I'm
closest with and those thatare trained in the area.
Right.
I'm not going to just ask someaverage person, right.
Their advice on this.
I went to the people that knowme really, really well.
(19:41):
Tell me what my weaknesses are.
Tell me what my strengths are.
Help me see what I'm notseeing so that I don't repeat this
mistake ever again.
I went into therapy as well.
I looked at places like, Istarted really watching and being
an observer of my own thoughtsaround everything.
Right.
Was I being a victim here ordid I sound empowered?
(20:06):
And as soon as I was being avictim and I could hear myself victimizing,
right.
Like my own self with thesituation, I said, okay, I gotta
pause.
How can I empower myself?
And I'd give myself five, tenminutes sometimes to get it all out.
But what a victim I really am,you know, that I believe that I am
and stomp my feet and whateverI had to do.
And then from there on out, Icommitted to myself.
(20:29):
I'm moving forward in ahealthier way.
And what is it that I need totake on and do in order to feel more
empowered and then become more empowered?
That's the biggest thing.
You know, they say we're human.
We're not human doings, we'rehuman beings.
And so when I be it, I'm goingto be it everywhere in my life.
Whether I'm at the hockeygame, watching my boys play, whether
(20:51):
I'm with friends, oh, doing afun activity, or with I.
Whether I'm with my family.
Is that a characteristic or aboundary in which I can uphold all
across the board, workplace, everything?
And if the answer is yes, thenit made it quite easy for me what
to do next.
I have like.
Yeah, so that's actuallyreally good.
(21:14):
And for you, the listenerwho's still with us, that is a great
reframe.
You know, I was grateful theone who hurt me to.
Because they showed me where Ineeded to grow.
I'm like, man.
And.
And I'm going to actually makesure that my wife listens to this
episode because she struggleswith some of this, and now she's
one of my biggest fans.
She.
(21:34):
I think she listens to almostevery episode, but because that's
something I think would bereally helpful for a lot of people,
including her, is to reframe it.
Thank you for showing me whereI miss it so that I can grow.
And it takes a lot of courageand I want to.
I want to acknowledge thecourage in that for you and just
what you're doing, becausewhat you're doing is impacting people
(21:56):
based off of your challengesand your own traumas that you flip
the script to where now you'reholistically leading and helping
people lead where before youwere just kind of the victim.
I love it.
It's an incredible transformation.
Which now brings me to one ofmy last questions for.
For this particular episode iswhat lesson or lessons have been
(22:18):
the most valuable for you overthe years?
What lessons?
Oh, there's so many.
So the most valuable.
Okay.
We always have a choice to getourselves unstuck.
There are always many, manychoices available to us.
And never ever discount thatin situations, some life situations
(22:42):
will cause us to feel quite stuck.
I was left without money toaccess to my joint bank accounts.
I was responsible for amortgage and didn't even have enough
money coming in to take careof all of that.
And I led with faith everysingle time.
And I would just say, I don'tknow how I'm going to make it through
this, but, God, I'm committedto making it through.
(23:02):
And the next thing I knew isthe answer came to me.
So to me, to stay humble andjust say, I don't know how I'm gonna
get through.
I'm committed to seeing thisthrough is one of the best gifts
that we can give ourselves.
Because when I say I don'tknow or we'll see, I stay very, very
open to possibilities,possibilities that I can't even possibly
(23:23):
fathom are available and thatI might have access to.
So I would say, though, alongthis journey, that's probably the
best advice.
The other thing that I startis I start every morning in silence
and with an intention.
And I will simply ask God,what will you have me do today?
Who do I need to reach out to?
(23:44):
Who do I need to connect with?
And I will write down one ortwo of those things that came through
and I will follow up with it.
And it has opened so manydoors for me.
That's powerful.
Thank you for sharing.
So if somebody wants to findyou and find and work with you, how
do they view those things?
I think the best way you canvisit my website, which is inner
matter.net and just fill out acontact form and it will come directly
(24:08):
to me and I'll get back to you.
Otherwise, you can reach outto me on social media.
I'm mostly active on Facebookand LinkedIn, so those are the two
places in which you can follow me.
Just to get more, you know, Ithrow up posts or anything like that.
Or you can send me a directmessage on either of those platforms
as well.
And for you, the listener, wewill put all of that in the show
notes because we want to makeit as easy as possible for you to
(24:31):
find and connect with the guest.
And today we're so gratefulfor you to be here.
Shiloh.
I could probably talk anothercouple hours with you because this
was a very rich conversationand one that I probably will have
a part two of at some point.
Looking forward to it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I love it.
So thanks so much for hangingout and just having a great conversation
around this.
(24:51):
Oh, thank you so much forhaving this platform and having me
on as a guest.
It's such a pleasure to talkwith you every time.
Yes.
And and and to you, thelistener, thanks for hanging out.
You know what to do.
We'll see you on the next episode.
Thank you for spending thistime with me on the Unshakable Life
podcast.
My prayer is that today'sconversation helps you to build resilience,
reclaim peace and step withcourage into your God given calling.
(25:15):
If this episode has encouragedyou to challenged you or impacted
you in any way, could you dome a favor?
Share it with a friend, leavea review and hit the follow so you
don't miss what's next.
And if you want more tools andencouragement for your journey, head
over to leadwithjim.com you'llfind resources to help you grow as
(25:35):
a healthy, authentic Christianleader, entrepreneur and creator.
And until next time, rememberyour foundation is Christ.
Your calling is unshakable andand your life can make eternal impact.
This is the Unshakable LifeMindset Resilience Action no strife
Break free from the burnout.
(25:57):
Find your true north with your God.
Jim Burn.
Stepping forward this is theUnshakable Life.
This is the unshakable life Mindset.
Resilience, action.
No strife.
Break free from the burnout.
Find your true north.
With your guy Jim Burgoonstepping forward.
(00:23):
This is the unshakable life.
Hey, friends.
Welcome back to the show.
I'm excited you're here.
Thank you for listening withus today.
I'm excited to be here with afriend of mine, Isla Webb.
We've known each other forquite a long time, and you're going
to be blessed by this episode.
So make sure you grab yourpaper, maybe whatever beverage you
have.
Mine today is a chai latte tea.
(00:44):
So I hope you're going toenjoy the rest of this episode.
And without further ado,welcome to the show, Shaila.
Oh, thank you so much forhaving me on the show, Jim.
I'm excited to be here.
Hey, why don't you do me afavor, because I don't know if my
audience knows you and theyshould know you, so why don't you
take the next 90, 90 secondsand let people know what you do?
(01:05):
Okay.
Well, I'm a leadership coach,and I primarily work as well as a
consultant, I primarily workon holistic leadership.
So we have to start recognizing.
I believe that we need tostart recognizing our whole selves
come into work, as well aswhat happens at work goes to home.
So I go into organizations, Ispeak, I give keynotes, I do transformational
(01:26):
leadership workshops andvarious various forms of training
along that lines.
I come from a background ofeducation and left as an administrator,
woke up in the middle of thenight and just felt compelled to
resign, to go completelyindependent so that I could support
organizations beyond just thepublic education system.
(01:47):
So I also focus on burnout,resiliency, and those type of practical
tips in which we can do toimprove our life, our daily lives.
Thank you for that.
Well, you.
You're on the right podcastbecause this is what we talk about.
Resilience, burnout, and allthe things in between.
I love this.
So I want to unpack this.
So I don't know if you knew this.
I'm actually a former teacheras well.
(02:08):
I was in the education 10years working with special needs
as a behavioral specialist and things.
So I want to start with thatbecause I'm going to dive.
I'm going to go a couple places.
I want to start with, you'reresigning, but we're going to also
dive into what holisticleadership looks like.
So with you waking up in the.
In the middle of the night andbe like, all right, I'm done.
Was there Fear around that,because that's, That's.
(02:31):
That's pretty, Pretty courageous.
So explain to me what you werefeeling during that time and.
And the leap you took.
Yeah, absolutely.
Now, one would think, youknow, I spent 27 years in education.
I'm probably at the level ofburnout like most educators go through,
or, you know, education administrators.
It was right before COVID even happened.
And, you know, I was workingwith my colleagues, and they would
(02:53):
say, we know you're only goingto be here for a little while, and
we're, we're excited to haveyour expertise while you're here.
Meaning I brought a lot to thedistrict with recognizing emotional
intelligence and of course,resiliency and, you know, just things
along those lines andunderstanding behavior a lot more
because my background is alsoworking with students with emotional
behavioral disorders, autismand learning disabilities.
(03:14):
So.
Yeah, but it was just one ofthose things.
Like, I just had this deepercalling within me that just finally
came out.
That's all I can say because Iwould tell my colleagues, like, no,
I'm here for at least 10.
10 years.
Without a doubt.
I'm definitely here, you know,for at least 10 years.
And then all of a sudden, Iwoke up in the middle of the night
and I literally heard.
(03:35):
And I know people think like,you're crazy, but it was so loud
and clear that it was justlike, you need to resign.
It's time to resign.
And I remember, like.
But I was so inspired by Matt.
I actually came down here tomy office to type out the letter
of resignation, and I printedit out.
This is like at 3 o' clock inthe morning.
I printed it out, put it in afolder and sat with it for a couple
(03:58):
days.
And I thought, have I lost my.
My mind?
This is a great job.
I worked.
I had.
Yeah, I love the people that Iworked with.
I love the district I was in.
But there was something in me that.
It was almost like the birdthat needs to leave the nest and
soar and fly.
And so a couple days later, Ihanded it in.
(04:18):
Nice.
I bet you that was a greatfeeling because I remember when I
handed my resignation in, itwas awesome.
So this brings up a great question.
Or actually just my mind isbubbling with questions.
Like, for instance, you'relike, I finally accepted my calling.
I did it.
I woke up in the middle of the night.
And first and foremost, you'renot crazy.
We have the Holy Spirit.
So to our listener, to you whoare listening, if you are a Christian,
(04:38):
we have the Holy Spirit.
And the Holy Spirit doesimpress upon us speak through dreams
and things like that.
So how long were you sittingon this calling before the dream
that woke you up and thevoices that he spoke to you?
Good question.
Probably a couple years.
I had dove deep intomindfulness and how to bring it into
(05:00):
the education system.
I dove deep into yogapractices and really also with my
church and just learning tosit in silence.
Right.
In prayer and contemplationand all of that.
And with that, there wassomething that just kept unlocking
inside me almost like a higherinspirational self and feeling levels
of joy at a much deeper levelthan I had ever experienced.
(05:23):
And.
And yeah, and I just gotdeeper into my own religion, which
is Christianity, that practiceand understanding.
And I felt like every time Ijust got closer to God.
And so the next thing I knew,I was being asked.
I was an administrator, butthe teachers within the district
were hiring me on the side todo their professional development
(05:44):
in the way that I believe in avery interactive, immersive, like,
experience, not just a sit andget model.
I also see myself as one ofthem, even though I was considered,
you know, at a higher, like,ranking wise.
Right.
If we look at, like the tierstructure within an organization,
which I kind of roll my eye that.
And so it was just what I wasfinding was I was getting deeper
connections that I was thenbeing asked to go and work with sales
(06:07):
teams in the summer and otherteams, and it just kept expanding.
And so it finally got to thispoint of working 50, 60 hours as
an administrator but doingthese side jobs.
That's where I left feelinglit up and just fulfilled and just
so deeply connected with thepeople that I was working with and
doing trainings with that Ithink that's what led to there.
(06:30):
I don't, you know, it's hardto even pinpoint to be exact.
Yeah.
So then this brings up awonderful question.
Did you feel that you werelike, like not accepting your calling,
running from it, or did youfeel like it was more, you need it
to grow and mature before youcan actually accept it?
Like, what does that look like?
(06:51):
I would say probably grow and mature.
Like, can I really make aliving doing this?
Was the question.
I'm a single mom, head ofhousehold, have a mortgage.
I don't have anyone that I canfall back on.
And left a really, really good salary.
A salary that providedfinancial, you know, responsibility
and stability for me.
(07:11):
Like, really, if you're goodin education, you're not going to
be fired or anything like that.
And so I think it was justmore maturity and all of a Sudden,
this need and desire tocontinue because I felt like in what
I was doing on the side was change.
I could see that it waschanging people's lives and they
were getting back to me a year later.
And that was happening ineducation too.
(07:33):
Like, I've had parents, I'llstill have parents.
Twenty years ago, I workedwith their kid and they'll, they'll
message me still today andjust say, thank you for the impact
that you made on my child.
And this is where they're atnow and I just want you to know,
or this is what they send.
I remember you used to saythat to them, you know, and it's
changing their lives andthings like that.
So it was just all of a suddenit was like I couldn't hold myself
(07:54):
back.
It just all of a sudden themomentum got going and it was just
time to go and leave.
It was, it was bittersweet.
It was truly bittersweetbecause I had conditioned self saying,
don't do that.
You have this great salary,something you can count on going
into the unknown.
Right.
It was totally a leap offaith, all I can say.
(08:14):
So being a single mom, whichnumber one we honor for that.
My mother was a single mother,so very much honor that.
Did you invite.
I don't know if your kids wereold enough at the time, but did you
invite them into the processsaying, hey, we're about to move
into something God has for us,but it's going to be hard for a little
while, or it was justsomething you're like, we'll figure
it out as we go, like, what?
(08:35):
How did you navigate those conversations?
Well, they were 2 and 3 when Isuddenly became a single mom.
And so at this point, I wantto say they were about 4 and 5, 5
and 6.
Okay.
And so no, there wasn't toinvite them into that conversation.
They were so young.
But I will say in my ownconversations with myself and God,
(08:57):
in that, in those moments ofsilence, they were the focus and
a lot of my beliefs and how tobe a mom and what kind of mom I wanted
to be and how I wanted them toremember me, they were the focus
of those conversations, thosehigher level spiritual conversations.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
With them being that young.
Mine are a little older, so.
(09:17):
Yeah, I get you.
But I was always curiousbecause I've heard both sides.
You know, whether peopleinvite their children into these
big steps or they just kind ofdo it when they're that young, I
totally get it.
So, so then let's, let'scircle back around because I want
to go into the conversation ofholistic leadership, because holistic
is a word that's thrown outaround there nowadays a lot.
(09:40):
Holistic nutrition andholistic this and.
But holistic leadership, howdid you come to that particular title,
like that niche?
What was the process for that?
I think at first it was morejust the essential leadership practices.
Right.
High performance, go with the grind.
This is what you need to do.
Be efficient.
This and.
And what I found, the morethat I would push that of myself
(10:03):
and I saw my colleagues do,actually, the more burnt out we were
getting.
Right.
It was working against us completely.
And so.
And I know, like, frommindfulness, there's just so much
and so many benefits to justbeing completely locked into the
present moment as it is.
Being in full acceptance andsurrender as it is.
Right.
And just being able.
(10:23):
The ability to pause or seeoutside of ourselves as the moment
or the events are happening,the experiences of life are happening.
And so in that journey, like Isaid, I just became.
I felt like I was gettingcloser to God and with God and really
developing a life around whatGod is asking me to do and starting
(10:45):
to take steps that way.
And so with education, we areto teach everything.
Public education specifically,everything needs to be secular.
But the reality is, is there'sa piece of us.
We are spiritual beings.
To me, I believe in a humanbody, and I'm not here to push that
agenda on anyone.
But there was a spiritualcomponent of our world in education
(11:08):
that we were dismissing.
And to me, it just felt likewe were really hurting as, you know,
as the humans.
And I don't know your age, butI'm 47.
And so when I first started inthe work, emotions were not allowed
in the workplace.
You left them at home.
Well, how do you do that?
(11:29):
If I'm happy at work, theemotions there with me, you know,
it doesn't matter.
But what they really meant isthe negative emotions don't happen
at work or shouldn't happen at work.
But then it was like I wasignoring a big part of myself or
if I look at, like, theeveryday miracles that happen in
our world, I was dismissingthat too, because I couldn't talk
about it.
(11:49):
Yeah.
And so that's when where itcame to, like, we do have to talk
about our spiritual sides,whatever that is for each individual.
That's wonderful.
I am also 47, so I totally getthe context.
We were growing up.
I grew up in Philadelphia, soit was kind of like, don't show emotions
because emotions was weakness.
Like, that's what you'reProgrammed with.
Yeah, we know that now thatthat's a bad program.
(12:12):
Yes.
So with this being theUnshakable Life podcast, Right.
I want to hear some things.
I'm going to dive some deeperinto this.
So let's pull back some curtains.
What were some of your, whatare some of your biggest challenges
in what you do, how you do it,or even just everyday life?
And in those challenges, howdo you protect yourself from giving
up or how do you protectyourself from burnout?
(12:34):
That's a good question.
So I would say what I do andthe challenge is not everyone's a
big believer.
And the work that I do, noteveryone, not every leader, they,
they come to me because theysee the results that other people
have had experience fromworking with me.
Right.
But then they come to me andthey don't want to talk about the
(12:56):
spiritual self.
They don't want to talk aboutthe side to them, the, you know,
the spiritual side of life, orthey're not quite believers.
And the miracles that arehappening all around us, right.
The miracles that they believein are the ones that people talk
about that everyday humansrarely ever experience.
Right.
In a bad car accident, you seethe light, all of that, all of a
(13:18):
sudden you're healed, type ofthat, type of real big miraculous.
But I believe big miracles arehappening in our simple everyday
life as long as we're willingto open up to that.
So I get a lot of pushbackfrom the condition self.
Like people, you know, it'stheir conditioned ways, not willing
to even dive into the unconscious.
(13:39):
I also have to use a lot ofdiscernment as far as like who I
share and what parts I shareof what I work with.
So not everyone's ready tohave these deep level spiritual conversations
right away, right?
Absolutely.
Go ahead, continue.
I was gonna say this.
And so then the second partcomes in.
How do you protect yourselffrom the burnout, from all of that?
Yeah.
So I stopped looking atprotection in the same way in which
(14:01):
I did once upon a time.
So to me, protection used tocome from a very fear based place,
place I needed protection.
I needed to keep people at a distance.
And now when I look atprotection, it is how am I going
to guide this journey or thisperson and how to be healthy relation,
like in our healthyrelationship with me.
That's what protection is more about.
(14:22):
How am I going to preservemyself in this situation right.
As it is, as it's showing upinstead of keeping away.
So I want to just be superclear on how I see protection now.
I also look at it.
Like the more, the closer I amwith God and the more driven I am
by my relationship with Godand all that I do and being directly
(14:45):
connected there and here, thatis what that just allows a natural
protection.
I don't have to worry so muchas anymore in the way that I used
that younger self, had toworry or felt like that's the story
I was telling myself anyhow.
So then, you know, I, I likewhat you're saying.
I love the way you, youcontact protection and reframe that.
(15:06):
That's a beautiful reframe.
But you're talking about fearbased and keeping people at a distance.
How have you overcome thatmistrust that you kept people at
a distance to where you pullpeople in now?
Like, what were some of thethings that you did in order to heal
from that?
Yeah, it takes work into theheart over and over again.
(15:27):
You know, allowing the heart,I think, to crack wide open from
a broken heart.
Right.
Gives us openness to the lightand the light of God to be with us
every single time, each timegoing within.
Like, how did I create that?
Because there were so manytimes, Jim, where I was mad at other
people, angry at other peoplefor betraying me.
(15:48):
But the reality is I betrayed myself.
Oh yeah.
That's where all of a suddenthe reckoning really happened.
I had to own that I allowedthis person.
I know they treat people this way.
I know that they've done it,they've done it to me before.
Three other times.
I allowed it again over and over.
(16:08):
And so I had to start takingownership of my own life and the
people.
Not everyone gets close accessto me.
Right.
I really value relationshipsand hold them as sacred relationships.
And if it's not sacredrelationship, then that to me already
determines what level accessthey have to me and my world now.
(16:29):
Not to say that they don't getaccess to me, but it's.
They're not going to get asmuch time, Right.
As much into my deep inner self.
Right.
That full vulnerability, fulldisclosure of my world as someone
that has shown me over timethat they do hold things sacred.
They're loyal, they'retrustworthy of just some of the basic
characteristics.
(16:49):
So you bring up some reallygood things here and I appreciate
the conversation of where thedirection is because you talk about.
I was angry at everybody, butthen I realized I was angry at myself.
What have you done with all ofthat anger?
I rumbled with it.
I rumbled with myself.
I did.
You know, in, in therapythere's the skill of catharsis where
(17:10):
you Just go in and you're in aprivate room and you just yell it
all out, right?
And you get it all out.
There's a lot.
I am one that once I build, Iwill just release and cry like a
full cry.
And so I sat with myself, Icried, I journaled, I dug in.
What is this about?
And I think the healthiest wayis to not be in a place of judgment,
but just stay in a place of curiosity.
(17:31):
I keep pulling back eachlayer, and I think there's also this
fine line of not going downthe rabbit hole in the way that we
make ourselves feel worse, right?
Bring us to a threshold inwhich we can't even handle anymore
of.
Of how unhealthy things feel, right?
And how deep and intense itgets is.
It is more from a place of curiosity.
As an outsider looking at itlike, huh, I wonder why.
(17:54):
Oh, I see now the connection.
How can I now, instead ofgoing back to mom and dad, like,
why did you do this?
Right?
This set me up for this in life.
None of that.
They did the very best thatthey could with what they had.
It is now, okay, now that Isee this, awesome.
I celebrate it.
And this is the intentionalchange that I'm going to take as
an adult to prevent this from happening.
(18:16):
So rumble with yourself is thefirst time I've ever heard that term.
And I love that.
I absolutely love that term.
So switching going into the.
Still going down this line.
All right, so you hadmentioned there were a couple people
that over and over betrayedyou, and you got that anger which
says lack of boundaries, right?
How did you decide?
How did you have the.
(18:37):
With it all to notice that youdon't have any boundaries?
And then what did you do tostart actually putting.
Putting boundaries into your life?
The very first thing I didwith one of the people that hurt
me the most was I privatelywrote him a thank you letter.
Interesting.
And maybe it was frommindfulness practice, the act of
gratitude that came forward inthat moment, but I just thought,
(18:58):
oh, shoot.
Thank you for helping me seewhat I haven't been seeing.
Thank you for helping me see Ididn't have much of a backbone, right?
An artbone that I had.
I wasn't using.
I wasn't taking a stand for myself.
Thank you.
Because now, now that I seeit, I can change it.
I can't do anything with it ifI'm unconscious about it and willing
(19:18):
to see it.
So to me, it was like, oh, mygosh, all of a sudden, it just unlocked.
What a gift.
Now I have something to workwith that I can see within myself
some of that.
Then I went and soughtfeedback from the people that I'm
closest with and those thatare trained in the area.
Right.
I'm not going to just ask someaverage person, right.
Their advice on this.
I went to the people that knowme really, really well.
(19:41):
Tell me what my weaknesses are.
Tell me what my strengths are.
Help me see what I'm notseeing so that I don't repeat this
mistake ever again.
I went into therapy as well.
I looked at places like, Istarted really watching and being
an observer of my own thoughtsaround everything.
Right.
Was I being a victim here ordid I sound empowered?
(20:06):
And as soon as I was being avictim and I could hear myself victimizing,
right.
Like my own self with thesituation, I said, okay, I gotta
pause.
How can I empower myself?
And I'd give myself five, tenminutes sometimes to get it all out.
But what a victim I really am,you know, that I believe that I am
and stomp my feet and whateverI had to do.
And then from there on out, Icommitted to myself.
(20:29):
I'm moving forward in ahealthier way.
And what is it that I need totake on and do in order to feel more
empowered and then become more empowered?
That's the biggest thing.
You know, they say we're human.
We're not human doings, we'rehuman beings.
And so when I be it, I'm goingto be it everywhere in my life.
Whether I'm at the hockeygame, watching my boys play, whether
(20:51):
I'm with friends, oh, doing afun activity, or with I.
Whether I'm with my family.
Is that a characteristic or aboundary in which I can uphold all
across the board, workplace, everything?
And if the answer is yes, thenit made it quite easy for me what
to do next.
I have like.
Yeah, so that's actuallyreally good.
(21:14):
And for you, the listenerwho's still with us, that is a great
reframe.
You know, I was grateful theone who hurt me to.
Because they showed me where Ineeded to grow.
I'm like, man.
And.
And I'm going to actually makesure that my wife listens to this
episode because she struggleswith some of this, and now she's
one of my biggest fans.
She.
(21:34):
I think she listens to almostevery episode, but because that's
something I think would bereally helpful for a lot of people,
including her, is to reframe it.
Thank you for showing me whereI miss it so that I can grow.
And it takes a lot of courageand I want to.
I want to acknowledge thecourage in that for you and just
what you're doing, becausewhat you're doing is impacting people
(21:56):
based off of your challengesand your own traumas that you flip
the script to where now you'reholistically leading and helping
people lead where before youwere just kind of the victim.
I love it.
It's an incredible transformation.
Which now brings me to one ofmy last questions for.
For this particular episode iswhat lesson or lessons have been
(22:18):
the most valuable for you overthe years?
What lessons?
Oh, there's so many.
So the most valuable.
Okay.
We always have a choice to getourselves unstuck.
There are always many, manychoices available to us.
And never ever discount thatin situations, some life situations
(22:42):
will cause us to feel quite stuck.
I was left without money toaccess to my joint bank accounts.
I was responsible for amortgage and didn't even have enough
money coming in to take careof all of that.
And I led with faith everysingle time.
And I would just say, I don'tknow how I'm going to make it through
this, but, God, I'm committedto making it through.
(23:02):
And the next thing I knew isthe answer came to me.
So to me, to stay humble andjust say, I don't know how I'm gonna
get through.
I'm committed to seeing thisthrough is one of the best gifts
that we can give ourselves.
Because when I say I don'tknow or we'll see, I stay very, very
open to possibilities,possibilities that I can't even possibly
(23:23):
fathom are available and thatI might have access to.
So I would say, though, alongthis journey, that's probably the
best advice.
The other thing that I startis I start every morning in silence
and with an intention.
And I will simply ask God,what will you have me do today?
Who do I need to reach out to?
(23:44):
Who do I need to connect with?
And I will write down one ortwo of those things that came through
and I will follow up with it.
And it has opened so manydoors for me.
That's powerful.
Thank you for sharing.
So if somebody wants to findyou and find and work with you, how
do they view those things?
I think the best way you canvisit my website, which is inner
matter.net and just fill out acontact form and it will come directly
(24:08):
to me and I'll get back to you.
Otherwise, you can reach outto me on social media.
I'm mostly active on Facebookand LinkedIn, so those are the two
places in which you can follow me.
Just to get more, you know, Ithrow up posts or anything like that.
Or you can send me a directmessage on either of those platforms
as well.
And for you, the listener, wewill put all of that in the show
notes because we want to makeit as easy as possible for you to
(24:31):
find and connect with the guest.
And today we're so gratefulfor you to be here.
Shiloh.
I could probably talk anothercouple hours with you because this
was a very rich conversationand one that I probably will have
a part two of at some point.
Looking forward to it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I love it.
So thanks so much for hangingout and just having a great conversation
around this.
(24:51):
Oh, thank you so much forhaving this platform and having me
on as a guest.
It's such a pleasure to talkwith you every time.
Yes.
And and and to you, thelistener, thanks for hanging out.
You know what to do.
We'll see you on the next episode.
Thank you for spending thistime with me on the Unshakable Life
podcast.
My prayer is that today'sconversation helps you to build resilience,
reclaim peace and step withcourage into your God given calling.
(25:15):
If this episode has encouragedyou to challenged you or impacted
you in any way, could you dome a favor?
Share it with a friend, leavea review and hit the follow so you
don't miss what's next.
And if you want more tools andencouragement for your journey, head
over to leadwithjim.com you'llfind resources to help you grow as
(25:35):
a healthy, authentic Christianleader, entrepreneur and creator.
And until next time, rememberyour foundation is Christ.
Your calling is unshakable andand your life can make eternal impact.
This is the Unshakable LifeMindset Resilience Action no strife
Break free from the burnout.
(25:57):
Find your true north with your God.
Jim Burn.
Stepping forward this is theUnshakable Life.
Host
Jim Burgoon
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