February 24, 2025 • 39 mins
Feeling overwhelmed by endless lesson planning and grading?
Struggling to maintain work-life balance?
Unsure how AI can help lighten your workload?
In this episode, I chat with the incredible Angela Watson, veteran educator, instructional coach, and creator of the Truth for Teachers podcast. Angela has spent years helping teachers streamline their workload and reclaim their time.
We discuss her 40-Hour Teacher Workweek program, the power of AI for productivity, and practical strategies to work smarter, not harder.
IN THIS EPISODE, WE DISCUSS:
👉 The truth about achieving a realistic 40-hour workweek as a teacher
👉 How AI can help teachers reduce admin work without replacing them
👉 What we need to consider when it comes to students using AI
👉 Shifting from ‘just in case’ to ‘just in time’ learning to avoid burnout
Teaching is a marathon, not a sprint. Angela’s insights remind us that working smarter is possible by focusing on intentionality, systems, and self-compassion.
How to work with Angela:
🔗 All of Angela's goodies: https://courses.truthforteachers.com/?ref=97eb5e
🔗 Join the 40-Hour Teacher Workweek: https://courses.truthforteachers.com/courses/40-hour-full-year-2024?ref=97eb5e
🔗 The 40 Hour AI Membership: https://courses.truthforteachers.com/bundles/40-hour-AI?ref=97eb5e
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
Enrolments for The Classroom Management Lab are now OPEN... but not for long! Join the 2025 cohort before doors close on May 11th.
JOIN MY FREE LIVE TRAINING: TURN YOUR TEACHING INTO A CLASSROOM MANAGEMENT MACHINE
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Connect with me:
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- Check out my website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh, hi there, teachers, Welcome to the
Unteachables podcast.
I'm your host, Claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hi all, welcome back to theUnteachables podcast.
I am joined today by AngelaWatson, who is the brilliant
brain behind the Truth forTeachers podcast, but she's also
a whiz in helping teachers gettheir time back in the classroom
(01:03):
.
I'm so excited to talk to hertoday, but I'm not going to dig
into too much of that becauseI'm going to let her let her
work shine.
But hello, wonderful Angela.
Thank you so much for joiningme here in my little space of
the podcasting world.
Yeah, thanks for having me,Claire.
So nice to have you here Firstup.
If you don't know Angela, I'dlike for her to give you a bit
(01:25):
of an elevator pitch of you know.
Who are you, what do you do andhow do you help teachers.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Sure.
So I spent 11 years as aclassroom teacher and I've spent
over a decade now as aninstructional coach and
educational consultant.
So I started my website, whichis now called
truthforteacherscom, back in2003, when I was in my third
year of teaching.
So, yeah, I've maintained thatsite for over two decades which
is just wild and I have teacherswho have been following me that
(01:52):
entire time, which is just anincredible honor.
You know to learn and growtogether all of those years.
So, yeah, I just there wasn't alot of resources out there.
I wanted to start sharing.
So that's what I did, andeverything really evolved
organically from there.
I published six books, Istarted the Truth for Teachers
podcast, created lots of onlinecourses and then, eventually,
(02:13):
the 40-Hour Teacher Workweek,which has now helped more than
60,000 educators, includingadministrators and instructional
coaches, streamline theirworkload.
So right now, I am focused onhelping teachers use AI for
productivity into streamline andcreating resources to make it
easier for teachers to supportstudents in their productivity
(02:33):
and their motivation.
So I have a curriculum line andI'm working on a book that is
called Finding Flow Solutionsand that's really designed to
help kids manage their time andenergy and attention, which is
something that I think we allneed support with right now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
If obviously no one can see me right now, but my jaw
is absolutely on the floor withthe amount of stuff that you
have done and just the impactthat you've been able to have
over your career, like your longcareer in teaching and then
instructing, and that is.
That's incredible.
And, yeah, it's so nice to haveyou here to speak to my
audience and I want to talk alot more about, like the 40-hour
(03:09):
work week and AI, and I thinkthere's a lot of talk around AI
now and using that in theclassroom and you know whether
it's good or bad or all of thethings.
But the reason why I'm veryexcited to talk to you as well
is because obviously, I'm apodcast all about classroom
management and behavior and somuch of that.
(03:30):
Like the big foundation of thatis how much capacity we have as
teachers and you know how wefeel and just all of the things.
Like it all starts with us,doesn't it?
And the work that you do.
I feel like, even though it'snot about classroom management
per se, you work at thisfoundational level that all of
my teachers could benefitgreatly from.
(03:52):
One of the things you doadvocate for and you've
mentioned it just before isteachers having a 40-hour work
week and, you know, helpingteachers get the skills and the
tools to actually be able toachieve that.
What are a few things that youdo teach teachers that actually
makes that a realistic goal,because it does seem like a bit
of a pipe dream.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah it totally does, and I feel like teachers
don't get professionaldevelopment and productivity as
part of their normal course.
I was never taught how tohandle all of my
responsibilities.
It was just assumed thatteachers will figure it out, and
so that's what you're leftdoing is just sort of
reinventing the wheel every timesomething new is tossed on your
plate and you're not reallytaught how to work effectively
(04:35):
and efficiently.
So there are definitely generalproductivity principles that
are commonly used in thebusiness world for people who
teach home organization and homemanagement lots of different
settings but they don't alwaysmake their way into schools.
So that's really what I'mpassionate about.
And you're saying that it canseem impossible to work 40 hours
(04:57):
a week, and I think it'simportant to acknowledge that
for some teachers it is that noteveryone can work their
contractual work hours.
So if that's not possible inyour particular teaching
position, that doesn't meanthere's something wrong with you
and that you're not doing itright or that you should be more
efficient, because everyteacher's workload is different,
your administration's different, your curriculum is different.
So for me it's not so muchabout 40 hours but about
(05:21):
maximizing your contractualhours.
So whatever time you wereactually paid to be at school
and work.
Really maximize that time sothat you're not working
endlessly on nights and weekends.
So for some teachers they canwork less than 40 hours.
They can stick exactly to theircontract.
I was contracted actually for38.5, which really not enough to
(05:45):
get a lot of stuff done, butsome teachers can go underneath.
Some teachers might want to aimfor a higher number.
You can really choose whatworks best for your teaching
context and you can adjust itweek by week.
So if you know that you haveparent conferences or report
cards or something coming up,you can choose a higher target
number.
So the purpose really isintentionality, so that work
(06:06):
doesn't just keep expanding tofill every spare moment of your
life.
So my advice is for teachers todecide at the start of each week
how many hours are you willingto work?
Look at what's coming up inyour personal life, look at
what's happening at school andmake a decision.
If you're contracted to work 40hours and you think that 50 is
(06:26):
going to be about right, that'sa good balance.
You're not going to be able toget everything done, necessarily
, but you're also not going tostay until it's all done,
because it's never all done.
So you can decide in advancehow much time of my life my one
wild and precious life am Iwilling to spend doing
school-related tasks this weekand then decide when you're
going to do those hours.
(06:46):
So will you go in an hour earlyon Tuesday and Thursday, will
you stay late on Fridayafternoon, will you not do any
extra hours beyond yourcontractual hours Whatever is
necessary for you that week andthen, most importantly, decide
what you're going to get doneduring those time periods so
you're not just showing up andputting out fires, you know, and
responding to email.
You've already decided.
(07:07):
Okay, monday afternoons is whenI'm going to grade papers.
Tuesday morning I go in a halfhour early.
I make my photocopies.
Friday I finish up all of myyou know organization materials
for the week ahead.
Create that kind of schedulefor yourself that can be
flexible.
You can adjust it each week,but the idea is that you're not
just going into work and sort ofputtering around the classroom
(07:27):
and just doing whatever seemsmost urgent at the moment, that
you have really set aside goalsto say, okay, these are the most
important aspects of my job.
Lesson planning and grading, forexample, are two of the most
essential things that teachersdo and we're often stuck doing
that on our own on weekends,when we're tired, when we're
with our families, when we'redistracted, when we've got other
(07:49):
things going on.
These are really important tasks.
They deserve to be prioritized.
So, really being intentionalabout what you're going to do
and when, and then leaving inbuffer time for all those
unexpected things becausethere's always going to be more
things that crop up you don'twant to overschedule yourself or
be overly ambitious in whatyou're trying to accomplish.
(08:09):
Realizing that it's never goingto all get done, I think, is
really important, and that youcan leave it on Friday.
It will still be there Monday.
You do not have to do it overthe weekend.
There will always be somethingmore.
It's like parenting right,there's always something more
that you could do for your kids,and knowing that that work
doesn't end, but you can choosewhat's most impactful where am I
(08:31):
going to spend my time andenergy and when am I going to
spend that time?
What am I going to work on?
It kind of gives you back alittle bit of that power,
instead of feeling like I'm justworking and working constantly
and I'm never done so much ofwhat you just said was like a
synthesis of these ideas.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I've had in my head around what I believe about this
topic and you've justarticulated it so beautifully.
The first thing I loved thatyou said was if you have to work
more than your contractualhours, that is a reality
sometimes and it's not yourfault, because we can work and
work, and work and work, and youknow, prioritise and all the
(09:08):
rest of it.
But sometimes it still won't beenough.
And the fact that you'veacknowledged that is so powerful
, and also the fact that you'resaying and it's not all going to
get done because you have toprioritise things.
And I fell into this massivetrap when I was first teaching,
where everything was important,I had to prioritize things.
And I fell into this massivetrap when I was first teaching,
where everything was important,I had to do everything.
Everything had to be doneperfectly, everything had to be
(09:30):
done.
I was a very proud I still am avery proud person very, very
stubborn, but everything had tobe done to a standard that I'd
be very happy with presenting,where now I'm like, actually,
maybe this can be somethingthat's not as important and I
can just put together an emailor you know, like.
So, just really thinking aboutthe fact that we don't have to
(09:53):
have everything all sorted allthe time, you know, and it is a
choice, I just everything yousaid just resonated so much with
me.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, for teachers who are perfectionists or just
have very high standards forthemselves, one of the phrases
that we talk about a lot in 40hour is relax your standards to
a level that no one else willnotice but you, because there's
a lot of things that we're doingthat no one else even notices
we're doing.
And then what happens is we getresentful about it.
Right, because it's like Ispent all this time setting
(10:21):
everything up and no one evennoticed, no one even cared.
You know, I organized all thisstuff in the class library and
the students just came in and,you know, toss the books around.
Well, relax your standards Likeno one asked you to stay after
school for three hours toreorganize the library.
We can empower kids to createorganizational systems that make
sense for them and maintainthem.
(10:42):
You know, think about how youreally want to be spending your
time and make sure that you'renot creating these standards for
yourself that are so high thatno one else is really even
noticing and that really aren'timpacting kids.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I feel like that can that breeds resentment with your
colleagues as well, because youcan feel like, oh well, I'm
doing all of this stuff and Ifeel like I'm the only one doing
it, or you know why am Igetting acknowledged for this?
Or you know, it can kind ofbreed resentment in that way as
well, and what do you thinkabout this?
So I don't know if it's thesame in the school that you
worked at or in.
I'm sure you've worked with somany teachers that I'm sure
(11:15):
would be talking about thisstuff.
But do you think there's aculture in schools where people
want to keep their resourcesreally close and not really want
to share and like, do you feellike that's still a thing?
Because I felt like that veryheavily, like people were
hoarding resources and like Idid this work so I'm not going
to share it.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know, I think it depends on the school culture,
but I also think that teachersare set up in a way to compete
with one another.
You know, your test scores arecompared to your colleagues'
test scores and you know, whenwe set up that kind of
competitive atmosphere insteadof collaborative atmosphere, it
makes people not want to share.
And I think there's also theissue of not wanting to draw
(11:54):
attention to yourself too, youknow, to wanting to stay under
the radar.
If you have something that'sreally good you share and other
people start doing it, then theymight pick it apart.
The administrator might come inand be like I don't like this.
So you can kind of get in thishabit of just holding up in your
classroom and not sharing, notcollaborating, and it really
does make the work so much moredifficult and it's compared to a
(12:16):
more an atmosphere in which youfeel like you can talk openly
about what you're doing and thatyou can have shared ownership
of the activities and the work,instead of feeling like you know
you're isolated and teachingsuch an isolating profession
right Like you spend so muchtime alone figuring things out
on your own.
And you know, coming togetherwith other teachers really is a
(12:38):
big part of just keeping up witheverything and maintaining your
mental health as well.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Thank you for your insights on that, because it's
something that has always poppedup in the work that I've done
and the teachers I've workedwith, and just in schools that
I've been in, where people justreally want to hold on to things
.
And, yeah, it is a culturalthing, absolutely, and I also
think it's a bit of ahierarchical thing where, like,
there aren't a lot of jobs goingin leadership, so people are
kind of like scrambling and, youknow, trying to trying to fight
(13:11):
for those things, and they wantto be the ones that shine.
I don't want to have peopletaking, you know, their work and
making it look like it's there.
So, yeah, it's really.
It's just an interesting point.
It's an interesting aside thatI was thinking of A big part of
this.
There's been a big shift in thelast couple of years, hasn't
there?
Towards AI, and this isprobably a dream for the
teachers you work with, becauseI'm sure that you're all over
(13:31):
this.
What does it mean, though, tobe, because you talk about being
AI literate what does it meanto be AI literate and how can
that help us in our teachingpractice and just in general
with the work that we're doing?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, I think it's really important to understand
what we're using and why we'reusing it, to be really
intentional with these techtools, because they're not
designed by educators.
You know these are for profitcompanies.
So we need to really be verycareful about what we're
bringing into our classroom,what we're using with students,
(14:06):
and we need to understand how itworks.
And because AI is such a newthing and evolving so quickly
and I think even the people whoare working on it don't fully
understand it, there's a lot ofunknowns here.
But what I know from pastinnovations in teaching is that
we can't wait until we see theend outcome to decide if we're
going to jump into the game.
You know, when I startedteaching, cell phones were not
(14:27):
really a thing, you know,certainly not a smartphone,
certainly not something thatstudents would carry around.
And the advice that I gavearound cell phones in the
beginning was like, oh, this isso cool, we have another device
in the classroom and you know,if you don't have enough
computers or you have to takeyour kids to the computer lab,
well, now they can use theirphones.
I wouldn't give that sameadvice now, now that I know what
I know about technologyaddiction, about screen
(14:48):
addiction, about kids' attentionspans, about the disruptions,
cyberbullying in 2025, I wouldgive different advice, but we
couldn't just tune it out untilwe knew the end result and
that's how I'm feeling about AIis that you know there are
certainly things to be cautiousabout and we should be aware of
them, but to just stick our headin the sand is not going to
(15:08):
work, just like it wouldn't haveworked with cell phones.
It's got to be something wherewe have to get comfortable with
sort of building the plane whilewe're flying it.
So that's why I have 40-hour AIdesigned to help teachers learn
how to navigate the ethics ofthis.
You know why is it okay forteachers to use it and not
students?
When is it okay to use?
When isn't it okay to use?
How do we protect privacy?
(15:30):
But it really is just anabsolutely transformational
development in terms ofstreamlining for teachers.
I mean, I have seen Englishteachers in particular burst
into tears when they see thatthey can help and support with
giving personalized feedback onessays.
You know, helping students, youknow, understand what next
steps they need to take in theirwriting to improve is extremely
(15:51):
time consuming.
What next steps they need totake in their writing to improve
is extremely time consuming.
I feel like ELA teachers, youknow, are the ones who tend to
feel like they have the biggestworkload.
There's just no way to avoidwhen you have all these essays
to grade, and AI really is agame changer for that for lesson
plans, for email, fordocumentation, for lots of stuff
that teachers do.
So what I like to try to do isshift from making it something
(16:14):
extra one more thing that youhave to learn or remember to do
and really help teachersintegrate it into their regular
processes.
So, whatever you normally dowhen you're planning a lesson or
when you're grading, to makethis just a normal part of that
process.
So most of the trainings arelike five minutes or less.
It tells you how to dosomething very specific that you
would normally do on your own,and then how to streamline it or
(16:35):
how to do it more effectivelyand efficiently with AI.
So I really like Magic Schoolis a great tool.
There's a teacher facing sideand a student facing side, so
you can set up the bots to tutoryour students, give them
feedback, to teach them aconcept.
So instead of you reteaching alesson in a small group, this is
something that they could do ontheir own is interact with the
bot, because that's anotherthing that teachers don't have
(16:58):
enough time for.
Right, is that follow-up, thatdifferentiation.
Ai is so powerful for that.
So Magic School is great.
I love DiffIt, brisk TeachingSnorkel is another one for
student assessment.
There's lots and lots of reallygreat tools, but I think the
most important thing is to findsomething that works for you and
to not feel like you have touse it for the sake of using it,
(17:20):
but really look at what are thethings that you're doing that
you feel like are just taking upway too much time, and maybe AI
could help with that.
So you know, if you need towrite an email to a parent and
you need to word it a little bitmore professionally, you can
just get onto chat GPT and justbe like hey, I need to tell this
parent that their kid is doingX, y and Z, but I need to say it
in a really empathetic, kindway Um, can you, can you
(17:43):
rephrase this for me?
And you can literally just typethat in or say that, speak that
into the microphone for chatGPT and it will come up with
something that is so much betterthan probably what you would
have done on your own itcertainly is the case for me and
just say, ah, that's too long,or I went a little shorter.
You know, I went a little moreprofessional.
It's going to be a text messageinstead of an email and it will
modify all of that for you.
(18:04):
So these you know these days ofwhen we had to sort of labor
over every individual word, youknow, or try to take the actual
lesson plans that you use toteach and turn them into
something that you can submit.
You know, a formal lesson planaccording to the right format.
Ai is great for that and thatreally frees you up to do the
stuff that you do best as ateacher, which is connect with
(18:24):
kids, build relationships,community, like all of the
things that we love to do, thecreativity of teaching.
This can free you up for that.
So you know, there's down's,downfalls, pitfalls, for sure,
but that's the upside of it andit's here to stay.
So I feel like we should takeadvantage of the resources that
we have, particularly if they'refree it makes me think about.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So just before I moved to New Zealand, I was in
an assistant head role and oneof my other assistant heads
would always be like Claire, canyou please write this email for
me, because she thought I wasreally good at writing, writing
emails.
I mean, I'm an English teacher.
So, by the way, that feedback,the English feedback, and all
that stuff that is revolutionarybecause, my gosh, I feel like
most of my holidays are taken upby marking, like you know,
(19:05):
grading 200 papers and givingfeedback and it's just
absolutely intense.
But she always saw me as thego-to for emails and I'm like
I'll just put them through AI,like just put it through AI,
just, you know, just give themthe information and say, can you
please edit this and?
Or I put some dot points in,like it is because of my role
and I was in senior leadership,I also taught, but I was in
(19:25):
senior leadership and a lot ofthat stuff was like
administrative.
Like you know, let's send someemails, let's write some letters
up, let's draft this, let'sdraft that.
Ai was absolutely game changing.
It is just, and it is now aswell, and I'm sure you use it
with the work that you do, and Iuse it in the work that I do
because it just frees you up forthe creativity and, you know,
(19:46):
for the things that youabsolutely can do as a human
being, but the things kind oflike it just takes that load off
, the things that we don't haveto be doing.
Really, yes yeah, you spokeabout some hesitations and you
spoke about some pitfalls andlike some potential things that
might be wrong with using AI.
Or maybe people just think abit scary about AI, like what
(20:10):
might be the hesitations inschools and adopting AI.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think a lot of folks worry that it's going to
replace them, and I think that'sa legitimate fear, because
we've seen schools try to usetechnology to replace teachers
in the past.
It never really works.
We saw, I think, during thepandemic, when we attempted to
do distance learning, that thereis nothing like a human teacher
(20:34):
face-to-face in a classroomwith children.
There just isn't.
So, you know, I think that it'simportant for teachers to be AI
literate and to take theseconcerns they have in order to
help shape the future of schools, because we don't want people
who run for-profit AI techcompanies to make the decisions
(20:55):
for us and we don't want peoplewho are very far removed from
classrooms to make all thedecisions.
We really need folks who areworking in schools to say, hey,
this is what we need, this iswhat our students need, this is
the direction we want to seethis go in.
We want to help, you know, wewant to be able to streamline
some of our administrative tasksso that we can focus on these
other things with kids andreally shape the way that it's
(21:19):
used, so that it's not thoughtof something where, oh, we can
just put kids on a device allday long and have AI teach it.
We know that's not going towork as teachers.
So I think it's important tohave that perspective, to
understand what it is, what itcan do, what it can't do, and
that way you can have a voice inhow things move forward, you
know, to ensure that it's notreplacing you and it's not
(21:40):
replacing your creativity.
You mentioned the creativitypiece, too, and I think that's
so important that we realizethat AI can be a fantastic
brainstorming partner.
It can take something thatyou've made and clean it up,
make it better, streamline it,make it clearer.
I find that AI is a greatenhancement to my creativity.
Anytime I'm stuck, I'm likewhat's another way to say this,
(22:02):
what's another word for this?
What else could I do here?
What's another way to teachthis to students?
What's an example that I couldgive kids for this?
It really is just a greatbrainstorming partner.
This, like it, really is just agreat brainstorming partner, and
I find that you know, it's notso much about replacing or
taking away your creativity, butreally allowing you to be the
(22:22):
best teacher that you can be.
And when you look at it thatway and you approach it that way
, I think that that really has apositive impact on the future,
because we don't know what'sgoing to happen with AI and I
think it will be a mixed bag.
I think there will be, justlike with cell phones, just like
with social media.
There will be some great thingsthat come from them, there will
be some disastrous things, butwe can still move forward with
(22:45):
it.
Anyways, we can find thosepositive ways to utilize it to
help us do our jobs moreeffectively and efficiently.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think for teachers absolutely.
I think one of the things thatI hear a lot is with students,
so them using AI, and youmentioned it before where, like,
teachers use AI but thenstudents can't use AI like
what's the boundary there?
And we're navigating this wholenew world of AI where students
can just take an assessment andrun it through AI and get AI to
do that for them.
(23:12):
Like, what advice would yougive to teachers around student
use of AI?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
You know teachers have been doing lots of
different things.
You know some just draw a hardline in the sand and say you
know, this is not just aboutgetting to the answer, it's
about learning how to think, andif you have AI doing the
thinking for you, then you'renot learning.
So no, we're not using AI, andthat's legitimate.
And I think every teacher knowstheir curriculum, their
students, their learning contextbest.
I think that's a legitimatething to do.
(23:39):
And then at the other end ofthe spectrum and I think it is a
spectrum of lots of differentapproaches we have teachers who
are openly using AI withstudents in the classroom,
allowing them to incorporate itin designated ways for specific
assignments, in designated waysfor specific assignments, having
kids analyze AI's output tonotice like is this better than
what you would have written onyour own?
(23:59):
What did AI do?
That was different?
How can we fact check it?
How can we be sure that it'saccurate and really teaching
kids how to analyze it, reallyembracing it and working it into
the curriculum so that it canhelp students kind of get past
those pieces that they can getbogged down on too.
You know it can really.
It can help them brainstorm asthey're writing.
(24:20):
It can help you know correctsome of their work.
It can help them stop focusingon things like am I spelling
this word correctly?
And just keep writing.
So it can be a reallybeneficial strategy for kids too
.
But it is difficult right now,particularly since a lot of
schools don't have policiesaround AI yet.
They don't have guidelines, andso it seems like at least in
(24:43):
the US, a lot of teachers aresort of on their own.
There's no school-wide strategyor approach.
So I think we're still in thebeginning stages of it, but
ultimately I think we're goingto reach a place where we guide
students to learn when is itappropriate to use AI.
I think that's really the idealis to help them think about it.
When is it going to be useful,when is it just doing the work
(25:05):
for you and preventing you fromlearning, and when is it helping
you learn?
So you know that's it's a loteasier to just ban it or to just
do everything paper and pencil,but ultimately I think that's
where we want to get with kidsis to help them, bring them into
that decision making andanalyzation so that they
understand responsible AI use,because it just it is a part of
life now.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah and you have to kind of lean into it, don't you?
Because I'm sure theconversation around Google was
exactly the same, I'm sure thatthe conversation around having a
smartphone was the same, andlike there are things that it's
inevitable, like we are in anage where we are going to be
moving forward with AI.
This is the trajectory andyou're right, we just need to
(25:47):
lean into AI in a way that worksfor our learners.
You can tell when you know yousaid you know your learner you
can tell when a student has notwritten their own work.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Oh yeah, it's so obvious, yeah, I also think it's
going to.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think my thoughts around AI is going to change the
way that we assess studentlearning.
So in English I'm just thinkingabout my subject you would get
them to write write an essay,but maybe now you'd have to
submit your analysis of the textand, like you know, prove your
kind of conceptual understandingof the text, and there are
certain things that you can doto, um, I guess it's about
(26:23):
showing, like you know, when youshow the maths working out, so
you haven't used a calculator,it's that kind of thing, isn't
it?
But that's how I see myselfkind of getting around AI and
making sure students have donetheir own thinking and done
their own work.
But you know, you go into theworlds outside of school and you
will be using AI in theworkplace, and so I think we
(26:44):
also have a responsibility toequip students with the tool.
There are so many things aroundAI and you're right, it's like
this new landscape that we have.
You know we're treading thepath for the first time, so it's
just, you know, we're justworking out as we go along.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
It is, and it's a lot , especially when you know it
feels like there's been so manyother changes, particularly over
the last five years, forteachers and students in the way
we do school.
It's a lot and I understand thefrustration around it.
So, you know, my hope is thatteachers can use it in their own
personal work and then they canstart to understand it a little
bit better and see thepossibilities of it, instead of
it just being, you know, thisinconvenience that makes them
(27:21):
change the way they teach, whichis, you know, it's draining.
I get that.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
You were speaking about some ofthe kind of tools like magic,
magic school before and just acouple of other ways that
teachers can utilize AI.
But when I was looking at allof your brilliant work, I saw
that you were talking about,like just-in-time strategies,
rather than you know, just incase.
So I wanted to talk to youabout a couple of those.
(27:47):
So like what are a couple ofactionable just-in-time
strategies teachers can useimmediately to make their
teaching and their lives alittle bit easier so they can
live their beautiful lives andnot have to work outside of that
40 hours if they don't chooseto do that.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, you know, I think that's.
Another sort of problem of themodern age is that we have so
much information now, you knowit used to be the challenge was
going to find the information,having to go to a library and
look it up, and now we're justconstantly bombarded with things
all the time and it's reallyeasy to get bogged down in
trying to remember everything orlearn everything just in case.
(28:22):
Let me explore all thesedifferent tools, just in case I
ever need to use it.
Let me, you know, learn aboutthis kind of you know, behavior
issue or neuroscience issue, youknow, or new development, just
in case it's ever relevant.
I think instead we can look at,instead of just in case
learning, look at just-in-timelearning, so knowing where to go
and how to find the informationat the time that you need it,
(28:45):
instead of trying to carry allof this stuff around in your
working memory and trying tocollect and organize teaching
ideas.
That's another thing that I seethat older teachers in
particular seem to have adifficult time with, because,
you know, when we first startedteaching I started teaching in
the 90s and it was verydifficult to get teaching ideas
(29:07):
you had to go buy the teachingbooks and make the photocopies,
and so we would collect.
You know the whole stereotypeof teachers, just like hoarding
everything and keepingeverything for 30 years, and
there's this empty plasticcontainer.
You don't even know what you'regoing to do it with, but you
can't do with it, but you can'tthrow it out because you might
need it.
It's just in case.
It's learning that, you know,make you.
(29:29):
Being a good teacher does notcome from your stuff, it's you.
You are what makes yourclassroom, it's not your stuff.
You don't have to keepeverything, you don't have to
know everything, you don't haveto collect every possible
teaching resource.
And that really ties intosaving yourself time later,
because the more stuff that youhave, the more time you take
maintaining it, organizing it,straightening up, looking
(29:49):
through things, and I see that alot with lesson planning.
So teachers are thinking thatthey're planning in advance, but
really what they've done isthey've narrowed it down to like
four or five different things.
And there's this idea that Ihave to wait until the night
before the lesson, after I'veseen what kids did that day, to
try to plan the next day'slesson, because I, you know, I
(30:15):
have to be responsive to studentneeds and the reality is when
you you know, when you'refamiliar with your curriculum
and your grade level.
It's not obvious at first whenyou're new to your curriculum or
to your grade level, but overtime you start to realize okay,
this is where kids normally haveproblems, this is the part that
normally doesn't stick, and youstart to see those patterns and
then you can prepare for that,instead of always having to plan
the night before Because a lotof teachers are going in, you
(30:37):
know, the night before andthey're looking through like 15
different ideas Like I could dothis, I could do this, I could
do this, and it's overwhelmingbecause there's so much out
there.
So, instead of trying to collectall these different ideas just
in case you ever need them or,you know, having four extra
things to do just in case wehave extra time in class, you
(30:57):
know which, for the most part,is not really the case to
accumulate everything and totrust yourself, trust that you
can find what you need, trustthat you can get the resources
really coming from thisabundance mindset instead of a
scarcity mindset.
(31:18):
And making decisions I think isanother piece of that too, of
not just sort of leaving it like, well, maybe I'll either do
this one or this one.
It's like no, just make thedecision, write it down.
That's what you're doing,because when you're stuck in
that day by day lesson planningtrap, then you never get to
relax, you never get a night offbecause you're always worried
about what you're going to dothe next day.
(31:39):
And that, to me, is is one ofthe the biggest stressors for
teachers, and so much of it iscentered on this idea that
that's what we have to do, to beresponsive to kids, to kids
needs, and it really is not true.
We can plan for scaffolding, wecan plan for going back and
reteaching, instead of waitingtill the night before to figure
(31:59):
out what we're going to do forthat.
So that's a lot to say aboutjust in time strategies, but I
feel like it's a big issue thatcan really stretch out into lots
of different areas.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It's like you saw a vision of me in my first few
years of teaching.
You know there was this bigpush for project-based learning
and there was a big push forconcept-based teaching and you
know, I obviously like there arethings that we can like weave
into our practice now.
But because there was like thisbig push around those things, I
(32:33):
felt like every lesson had tobe really innovative and really
exciting and so the Nate, likeone lesson was taking like five
hours to plan.
I'm like this is ridiculous.
How can I do this?
So I absolutely love everythingthat you've just said.
It just resonates so much and Iknow that's going to resonate
with my listeners as well.
(32:54):
Listen, Angela, if you could goback in time because that you
said you started teaching in the90s and a lot has changed since
then if you could go back toyour very first year of teaching
, knowing what you know now, andgive yourself a piece of advice
, what would that piece ofadvice be?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I would tell myself to stop trying to find the
definitive system that will workforever and instead to practice
non-attachment.
So what I mean by that is I ama person who feels like there's
an optimal way to do things.
I want to find the optimal way,and so I would do things.
Like you know, I remember oneyear we had new state standards
(33:35):
come in and so I wrote them.
We had to display them for thestudents, so I wrote them all in
chart strips and laminated them.
It took hours and hours andhours.
But I'm like well, now I'm good, now I have them.
They're like all organized inthis you you know little box
(33:57):
that I have them like tabs so Ican find them.
Well, the standards changed.
Three years later we had allnew standards.
So all that work was for nothing, and I didn't realize that as a
young teacher, how much changethere was going to be and that
trying to find something thatwould always work is just not
only a school's going to change,but I'm going to change.
And when I put a lot of timeinto things that I assume I will
use forever, then what it didwas.
It made me not want to innovatebecause it's like well, I don't
want to do something adifferent way because I spent
all these hours setting thisother thing up and then that
(34:18):
would make me bored.
You know, I like new challengesand the creativity of teaching
is a big draw for me.
So if I'm doing the same thingyear after year after year, I'm
going to get really bored.
And if I have invested too muchtime into the way that I've set
things up, then I'm not goingto want to do something
differently.
So that's where thenon-attachment really comes in,
(34:39):
where it's like this is all anexperiment.
Productivity is an experiment.
How I run the classroom is anexperiment.
I'm always going to be tryingnew things.
It doesn't have to be exactlyright.
Every lesson, as you're saying,claire, doesn't have to be
innovative.
It doesn't have to be amazing.
You know it's like if you thinkabout, you know the meals that
you create, not every dinnerthat you make is amazing, right,
(35:01):
some are just they work.
You know it's like it servesits purpose.
You got the nutrition that youneeded, you're full, that's it.
It wasn't amazing.
Other meals are spectacular andother meals are just really not
that great.
And I feel like it's the samething with lesson planning, like
don't try to make every lesson,just hit it out of the park.
Find things that work and reusethem over and over again.
(35:21):
You know you can in.
You can just make small tweaksto keep things fresh and
interesting.
But kids love to know that theyhave that predictability, that
routine where they know how tobe successful.
They've done something similarbefore, they know what's coming
and they can thrive in that kindof situation.
So don't feel like you alwayshave to look for the next new
thing.
Always be trying to findsomething brand new and trying
(35:43):
to find that thing that willwork forever.
Just invest your time in it.
You know something that'salways going to work for every
class every year.
I don't think that thing exists.
It took me a long time toaccept that, because I don't
want to accept that, but thatwould be.
My advice to myself is to stoptrying to find this once and for
all thing that is always goingto work and just don't be so
(36:05):
attached to what I'm doing.
Be a little bit more playfulwith it.
Take myself a little lessseriously.
Take students' responses to thelessons a little bit more
playful with it.
Take myself a little lessseriously.
Take students' responses to thelessons a little bit less
seriously and just try to enjoythe process more, because it
really is a lifelong experimentthis whole process of teaching
and learning.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
It really really is, and it just made me think like
so I've been teaching for 14years and this year, or last
year now 2024 I started mymembership, the behavior club,
and I started to create a lot ofresources for teachers.
I look back at the resources Iwas creating six months ago and
I think, no, don't like him, andthat was six months ago.
(36:43):
And I've been teaching 14 yearsbecause we are constantly on a
journey of reinventing ourstyles, ourself, our
understanding around things, andyou can't get attached to it
and if you're not looking backand cringing, you're not growing
.
So don't feel like you're goingto create something for the
first time.
You're going to love it forever.
So I just love that advice somuch and I hope that a lot of my
(37:05):
listeners who are in theirfirst years have gotten so much
from this conversation.
I trust that they have, becauseyou are just such a fountain of
knowledge around this stuff.
And, yeah, where were you 14years ago, gosh?
Finally, if anybody islistening and they would love to
come into your sphere, whatsupport do you offer for
(37:27):
teachers and where can teachersgo to find you?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So the best place to go is truthforteacherscom.
So that's where you'll findlots of articles from current
classroom teachers about what'sworking in their rooms.
You'll find my podcast there,my books, the curriculum that
I've created called Finding Flowthat helps kids manage their
time, energy and attention, andyou can find out about the 40
hour teacher work week and allof the 40 hour AI resources
(37:53):
there.
So everything's attruthforteacherscom.
And, of course, you can followme on socials too.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Thank you so much, angela, and I'll obviously pop
all of those links in the shownotes so people can find you
super easy.
But thank you so much forjoining me today on the podcast,
angela.
Thanks, claire.
Oh, hi there, teachers, Welcome to the
Unteachables podcast.
I'm your host, Claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hi all, welcome back to theUnteachables podcast.
I am joined today by AngelaWatson, who is the brilliant
brain behind the Truth forTeachers podcast, but she's also
a whiz in helping teachers gettheir time back in the classroom
(01:03):
.
I'm so excited to talk to hertoday, but I'm not going to dig
into too much of that becauseI'm going to let her let her
work shine.
But hello, wonderful Angela.
Thank you so much for joiningme here in my little space of
the podcasting world.
Yeah, thanks for having me,Claire.
So nice to have you here Firstup.
If you don't know Angela, I'dlike for her to give you a bit
(01:25):
of an elevator pitch of you know.
Who are you, what do you do andhow do you help teachers.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Sure.
So I spent 11 years as aclassroom teacher and I've spent
over a decade now as aninstructional coach and
educational consultant.
So I started my website, whichis now called
truthforteacherscom, back in2003, when I was in my third
year of teaching.
So, yeah, I've maintained thatsite for over two decades which
is just wild and I have teacherswho have been following me that
(01:52):
entire time, which is just anincredible honor.
You know to learn and growtogether all of those years.
So, yeah, I just there wasn't alot of resources out there.
I wanted to start sharing.
So that's what I did, andeverything really evolved
organically from there.
I published six books, Istarted the Truth for Teachers
podcast, created lots of onlinecourses and then, eventually,
(02:13):
the 40-Hour Teacher Workweek,which has now helped more than
60,000 educators, includingadministrators and instructional
coaches, streamline theirworkload.
So right now, I am focused onhelping teachers use AI for
productivity into streamline andcreating resources to make it
easier for teachers to supportstudents in their productivity
(02:33):
and their motivation.
So I have a curriculum line andI'm working on a book that is
called Finding Flow Solutionsand that's really designed to
help kids manage their time andenergy and attention, which is
something that I think we allneed support with right now.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
If obviously no one can see me right now, but my jaw
is absolutely on the floor withthe amount of stuff that you
have done and just the impactthat you've been able to have
over your career, like your longcareer in teaching and then
instructing, and that is.
That's incredible.
And, yeah, it's so nice to haveyou here to speak to my
audience and I want to talk alot more about, like the 40-hour
(03:09):
work week and AI, and I thinkthere's a lot of talk around AI
now and using that in theclassroom and you know whether
it's good or bad or all of thethings.
But the reason why I'm veryexcited to talk to you as well
is because obviously, I'm apodcast all about classroom
management and behavior and somuch of that.
(03:30):
Like the big foundation of thatis how much capacity we have as
teachers and you know how wefeel and just all of the things.
Like it all starts with us,doesn't it?
And the work that you do.
I feel like, even though it'snot about classroom management
per se, you work at thisfoundational level that all of
my teachers could benefitgreatly from.
(03:52):
One of the things you doadvocate for and you've
mentioned it just before isteachers having a 40-hour work
week and, you know, helpingteachers get the skills and the
tools to actually be able toachieve that.
What are a few things that youdo teach teachers that actually
makes that a realistic goal,because it does seem like a bit
of a pipe dream.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, yeah it totally does, and I feel like teachers
don't get professionaldevelopment and productivity as
part of their normal course.
I was never taught how tohandle all of my
responsibilities.
It was just assumed thatteachers will figure it out, and
so that's what you're leftdoing is just sort of
reinventing the wheel every timesomething new is tossed on your
plate and you're not reallytaught how to work effectively
(04:35):
and efficiently.
So there are definitely generalproductivity principles that
are commonly used in thebusiness world for people who
teach home organization and homemanagement lots of different
settings but they don't alwaysmake their way into schools.
So that's really what I'mpassionate about.
And you're saying that it canseem impossible to work 40 hours
(04:57):
a week, and I think it'simportant to acknowledge that
for some teachers it is that noteveryone can work their
contractual work hours.
So if that's not possible inyour particular teaching
position, that doesn't meanthere's something wrong with you
and that you're not doing itright or that you should be more
efficient, because everyteacher's workload is different,
your administration's different, your curriculum is different.
So for me it's not so muchabout 40 hours but about
(05:21):
maximizing your contractualhours.
So whatever time you wereactually paid to be at school
and work.
Really maximize that time sothat you're not working
endlessly on nights and weekends.
So for some teachers they canwork less than 40 hours.
They can stick exactly to theircontract.
I was contracted actually for38.5, which really not enough to
(05:45):
get a lot of stuff done, butsome teachers can go underneath.
Some teachers might want to aimfor a higher number.
You can really choose whatworks best for your teaching
context and you can adjust itweek by week.
So if you know that you haveparent conferences or report
cards or something coming up,you can choose a higher target
number.
So the purpose really isintentionality, so that work
(06:06):
doesn't just keep expanding tofill every spare moment of your
life.
So my advice is for teachers todecide at the start of each week
how many hours are you willingto work?
Look at what's coming up inyour personal life, look at
what's happening at school andmake a decision.
If you're contracted to work 40hours and you think that 50 is
(06:26):
going to be about right, that'sa good balance.
You're not going to be able toget everything done, necessarily
, but you're also not going tostay until it's all done,
because it's never all done.
So you can decide in advancehow much time of my life my one
wild and precious life am Iwilling to spend doing
school-related tasks this weekand then decide when you're
going to do those hours.
(06:46):
So will you go in an hour earlyon Tuesday and Thursday, will
you stay late on Fridayafternoon, will you not do any
extra hours beyond yourcontractual hours Whatever is
necessary for you that week andthen, most importantly, decide
what you're going to get doneduring those time periods so
you're not just showing up andputting out fires, you know, and
responding to email.
You've already decided.
(07:07):
Okay, monday afternoons is whenI'm going to grade papers.
Tuesday morning I go in a halfhour early.
I make my photocopies.
Friday I finish up all of myyou know organization materials
for the week ahead.
Create that kind of schedulefor yourself that can be
flexible.
You can adjust it each week,but the idea is that you're not
just going into work and sort ofputtering around the classroom
(07:27):
and just doing whatever seemsmost urgent at the moment, that
you have really set aside goalsto say, okay, these are the most
important aspects of my job.
Lesson planning and grading, forexample, are two of the most
essential things that teachersdo and we're often stuck doing
that on our own on weekends,when we're tired, when we're
with our families, when we'redistracted, when we've got other
(07:49):
things going on.
These are really important tasks.
They deserve to be prioritized.
So, really being intentionalabout what you're going to do
and when, and then leaving inbuffer time for all those
unexpected things becausethere's always going to be more
things that crop up you don'twant to overschedule yourself or
be overly ambitious in whatyou're trying to accomplish.
(08:09):
Realizing that it's never goingto all get done, I think, is
really important, and that youcan leave it on Friday.
It will still be there Monday.
You do not have to do it overthe weekend.
There will always be somethingmore.
It's like parenting right,there's always something more
that you could do for your kids,and knowing that that work
doesn't end, but you can choosewhat's most impactful where am I
(08:31):
going to spend my time andenergy and when am I going to
spend that time?
What am I going to work on?
It kind of gives you back alittle bit of that power,
instead of feeling like I'm justworking and working constantly
and I'm never done so much ofwhat you just said was like a
synthesis of these ideas.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I've had in my head around what I believe about this
topic and you've justarticulated it so beautifully.
The first thing I loved thatyou said was if you have to work
more than your contractualhours, that is a reality
sometimes and it's not yourfault, because we can work and
work, and work and work, and youknow, prioritise and all the
(09:08):
rest of it.
But sometimes it still won't beenough.
And the fact that you'veacknowledged that is so powerful
, and also the fact that you'resaying and it's not all going to
get done because you have toprioritise things.
And I fell into this massivetrap when I was first teaching,
where everything was important,I had to prioritize things.
And I fell into this massivetrap when I was first teaching,
where everything was important,I had to do everything.
Everything had to be doneperfectly, everything had to be
(09:30):
done.
I was a very proud I still am avery proud person very, very
stubborn, but everything had tobe done to a standard that I'd
be very happy with presenting,where now I'm like, actually,
maybe this can be somethingthat's not as important and I
can just put together an emailor you know, like.
So, just really thinking aboutthe fact that we don't have to
(09:53):
have everything all sorted allthe time, you know, and it is a
choice, I just everything yousaid just resonated so much with
me.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, for teachers who are perfectionists or just
have very high standards forthemselves, one of the phrases
that we talk about a lot in 40hour is relax your standards to
a level that no one else willnotice but you, because there's
a lot of things that we're doingthat no one else even notices
we're doing.
And then what happens is we getresentful about it.
Right, because it's like Ispent all this time setting
(10:21):
everything up and no one evennoticed, no one even cared.
You know, I organized all thisstuff in the class library and
the students just came in and,you know, toss the books around.
Well, relax your standards Likeno one asked you to stay after
school for three hours toreorganize the library.
We can empower kids to createorganizational systems that make
sense for them and maintainthem.
(10:42):
You know, think about how youreally want to be spending your
time and make sure that you'renot creating these standards for
yourself that are so high thatno one else is really even
noticing and that really aren'timpacting kids.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
I feel like that can that breeds resentment with your
colleagues as well, because youcan feel like, oh well, I'm
doing all of this stuff and Ifeel like I'm the only one doing
it, or you know why am Igetting acknowledged for this?
Or you know, it can kind ofbreed resentment in that way as
well, and what do you thinkabout this?
So I don't know if it's thesame in the school that you
worked at or in.
I'm sure you've worked with somany teachers that I'm sure
(11:15):
would be talking about thisstuff.
But do you think there's aculture in schools where people
want to keep their resourcesreally close and not really want
to share and like, do you feellike that's still a thing?
Because I felt like that veryheavily, like people were
hoarding resources and like Idid this work so I'm not going
to share it.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You know, I think it depends on the school culture,
but I also think that teachersare set up in a way to compete
with one another.
You know, your test scores arecompared to your colleagues'
test scores and you know, whenwe set up that kind of
competitive atmosphere insteadof collaborative atmosphere, it
makes people not want to share.
And I think there's also theissue of not wanting to draw
(11:54):
attention to yourself too, youknow, to wanting to stay under
the radar.
If you have something that'sreally good you share and other
people start doing it, then theymight pick it apart.
The administrator might come inand be like I don't like this.
So you can kind of get in thishabit of just holding up in your
classroom and not sharing, notcollaborating, and it really
does make the work so much moredifficult and it's compared to a
(12:16):
more an atmosphere in which youfeel like you can talk openly
about what you're doing and thatyou can have shared ownership
of the activities and the work,instead of feeling like you know
you're isolated and teachingsuch an isolating profession
right Like you spend so muchtime alone figuring things out
on your own.
And you know, coming togetherwith other teachers really is a
(12:38):
big part of just keeping up witheverything and maintaining your
mental health as well.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Thank you for your insights on that, because it's
something that has always poppedup in the work that I've done
and the teachers I've workedwith, and just in schools that
I've been in, where people justreally want to hold on to things
.
And, yeah, it is a culturalthing, absolutely, and I also
think it's a bit of ahierarchical thing where, like,
there aren't a lot of jobs goingin leadership, so people are
kind of like scrambling and, youknow, trying to trying to fight
(13:11):
for those things, and they wantto be the ones that shine.
I don't want to have peopletaking, you know, their work and
making it look like it's there.
So, yeah, it's really.
It's just an interesting point.
It's an interesting aside thatI was thinking of A big part of
this.
There's been a big shift in thelast couple of years, hasn't
there?
Towards AI, and this isprobably a dream for the
teachers you work with, becauseI'm sure that you're all over
(13:31):
this.
What does it mean, though, tobe, because you talk about being
AI literate what does it meanto be AI literate and how can
that help us in our teachingpractice and just in general
with the work that we're doing?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, I think it's really important to understand
what we're using and why we'reusing it, to be really
intentional with these techtools, because they're not
designed by educators.
You know these are for profitcompanies.
So we need to really be verycareful about what we're
bringing into our classroom,what we're using with students,
(14:06):
and we need to understand how itworks.
And because AI is such a newthing and evolving so quickly
and I think even the people whoare working on it don't fully
understand it, there's a lot ofunknowns here.
But what I know from pastinnovations in teaching is that
we can't wait until we see theend outcome to decide if we're
going to jump into the game.
You know, when I startedteaching, cell phones were not
(14:27):
really a thing, you know,certainly not a smartphone,
certainly not something thatstudents would carry around.
And the advice that I gavearound cell phones in the
beginning was like, oh, this isso cool, we have another device
in the classroom and you know,if you don't have enough
computers or you have to takeyour kids to the computer lab,
well, now they can use theirphones.
I wouldn't give that sameadvice now, now that I know what
I know about technologyaddiction, about screen
(14:48):
addiction, about kids' attentionspans, about the disruptions,
cyberbullying in 2025, I wouldgive different advice, but we
couldn't just tune it out untilwe knew the end result and
that's how I'm feeling about AIis that you know there are
certainly things to be cautiousabout and we should be aware of
them, but to just stick our headin the sand is not going to
(15:08):
work, just like it wouldn't haveworked with cell phones.
It's got to be something wherewe have to get comfortable with
sort of building the plane whilewe're flying it.
So that's why I have 40-hour AIdesigned to help teachers learn
how to navigate the ethics ofthis.
You know why is it okay forteachers to use it and not
students?
When is it okay to use?
When isn't it okay to use?
How do we protect privacy?
(15:30):
But it really is just anabsolutely transformational
development in terms ofstreamlining for teachers.
I mean, I have seen Englishteachers in particular burst
into tears when they see thatthey can help and support with
giving personalized feedback onessays.
You know, helping students, youknow, understand what next
steps they need to take in theirwriting to improve is extremely
(15:51):
time consuming.
What next steps they need totake in their writing to improve
is extremely time consuming.
I feel like ELA teachers, youknow, are the ones who tend to
feel like they have the biggestworkload.
There's just no way to avoidwhen you have all these essays
to grade, and AI really is agame changer for that for lesson
plans, for email, fordocumentation, for lots of stuff
that teachers do.
So what I like to try to do isshift from making it something
(16:14):
extra one more thing that youhave to learn or remember to do
and really help teachersintegrate it into their regular
processes.
So, whatever you normally dowhen you're planning a lesson or
when you're grading, to makethis just a normal part of that
process.
So most of the trainings arelike five minutes or less.
It tells you how to dosomething very specific that you
would normally do on your own,and then how to streamline it or
(16:35):
how to do it more effectivelyand efficiently with AI.
So I really like Magic Schoolis a great tool.
There's a teacher facing sideand a student facing side, so
you can set up the bots to tutoryour students, give them
feedback, to teach them aconcept.
So instead of you reteaching alesson in a small group, this is
something that they could do ontheir own is interact with the
bot, because that's anotherthing that teachers don't have
(16:58):
enough time for.
Right, is that follow-up, thatdifferentiation.
Ai is so powerful for that.
So Magic School is great.
I love DiffIt, brisk TeachingSnorkel is another one for
student assessment.
There's lots and lots of reallygreat tools, but I think the
most important thing is to findsomething that works for you and
to not feel like you have touse it for the sake of using it,
(17:20):
but really look at what are thethings that you're doing that
you feel like are just taking upway too much time, and maybe AI
could help with that.
So you know, if you need towrite an email to a parent and
you need to word it a little bitmore professionally, you can
just get onto chat GPT and justbe like hey, I need to tell this
parent that their kid is doingX, y and Z, but I need to say it
in a really empathetic, kindway Um, can you, can you
(17:43):
rephrase this for me?
And you can literally just typethat in or say that, speak that
into the microphone for chatGPT and it will come up with
something that is so much betterthan probably what you would
have done on your own itcertainly is the case for me and
just say, ah, that's too long,or I went a little shorter.
You know, I went a little moreprofessional.
It's going to be a text messageinstead of an email and it will
modify all of that for you.
(18:04):
So these you know these days ofwhen we had to sort of labor
over every individual word, youknow, or try to take the actual
lesson plans that you use toteach and turn them into
something that you can submit.
You know, a formal lesson planaccording to the right format.
Ai is great for that and thatreally frees you up to do the
stuff that you do best as ateacher, which is connect with
(18:24):
kids, build relationships,community, like all of the
things that we love to do, thecreativity of teaching.
This can free you up for that.
So you know, there's down's,downfalls, pitfalls, for sure,
but that's the upside of it andit's here to stay.
So I feel like we should takeadvantage of the resources that
we have, particularly if they'refree it makes me think about.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
So just before I moved to New Zealand, I was in
an assistant head role and oneof my other assistant heads
would always be like Claire, canyou please write this email for
me, because she thought I wasreally good at writing, writing
emails.
I mean, I'm an English teacher.
So, by the way, that feedback,the English feedback, and all
that stuff that is revolutionarybecause, my gosh, I feel like
most of my holidays are taken upby marking, like you know,
(19:05):
grading 200 papers and givingfeedback and it's just
absolutely intense.
But she always saw me as thego-to for emails and I'm like
I'll just put them through AI,like just put it through AI,
just, you know, just give themthe information and say, can you
please edit this and?
Or I put some dot points in,like it is because of my role
and I was in senior leadership,I also taught, but I was in
(19:25):
senior leadership and a lot ofthat stuff was like
administrative.
Like you know, let's send someemails, let's write some letters
up, let's draft this, let'sdraft that.
Ai was absolutely game changing.
It is just, and it is now aswell, and I'm sure you use it
with the work that you do, and Iuse it in the work that I do
because it just frees you up forthe creativity and, you know,
(19:46):
for the things that youabsolutely can do as a human
being, but the things kind oflike it just takes that load off
, the things that we don't haveto be doing.
Really, yes yeah, you spokeabout some hesitations and you
spoke about some pitfalls andlike some potential things that
might be wrong with using AI.
Or maybe people just think abit scary about AI, like what
(20:10):
might be the hesitations inschools and adopting AI.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I think a lot of folks worry that it's going to
replace them, and I think that'sa legitimate fear, because
we've seen schools try to usetechnology to replace teachers
in the past.
It never really works.
We saw, I think, during thepandemic, when we attempted to
do distance learning, that thereis nothing like a human teacher
(20:34):
face-to-face in a classroomwith children.
There just isn't.
So, you know, I think that it'simportant for teachers to be AI
literate and to take theseconcerns they have in order to
help shape the future of schools, because we don't want people
who run for-profit AI techcompanies to make the decisions
(20:55):
for us and we don't want peoplewho are very far removed from
classrooms to make all thedecisions.
We really need folks who areworking in schools to say, hey,
this is what we need, this iswhat our students need, this is
the direction we want to seethis go in.
We want to help, you know, wewant to be able to streamline
some of our administrative tasksso that we can focus on these
other things with kids andreally shape the way that it's
(21:19):
used, so that it's not thoughtof something where, oh, we can
just put kids on a device allday long and have AI teach it.
We know that's not going towork as teachers.
So I think it's important tohave that perspective, to
understand what it is, what itcan do, what it can't do, and
that way you can have a voice inhow things move forward, you
know, to ensure that it's notreplacing you and it's not
(21:40):
replacing your creativity.
You mentioned the creativitypiece, too, and I think that's
so important that we realizethat AI can be a fantastic
brainstorming partner.
It can take something thatyou've made and clean it up,
make it better, streamline it,make it clearer.
I find that AI is a greatenhancement to my creativity.
Anytime I'm stuck, I'm likewhat's another way to say this,
(22:02):
what's another word for this?
What else could I do here?
What's another way to teachthis to students?
What's an example that I couldgive kids for this?
It really is just a greatbrainstorming partner.
This, like it, really is just agreat brainstorming partner, and
I find that you know, it's notso much about replacing or
taking away your creativity, butreally allowing you to be the
(22:22):
best teacher that you can be.
And when you look at it thatway and you approach it that way
, I think that that really has apositive impact on the future,
because we don't know what'sgoing to happen with AI and I
think it will be a mixed bag.
I think there will be, justlike with cell phones, just like
with social media.
There will be some great thingsthat come from them, there will
be some disastrous things, butwe can still move forward with
(22:45):
it.
Anyways, we can find thosepositive ways to utilize it to
help us do our jobs moreeffectively and efficiently.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
I think for teachers absolutely.
I think one of the things thatI hear a lot is with students,
so them using AI, and youmentioned it before where, like,
teachers use AI but thenstudents can't use AI like
what's the boundary there?
And we're navigating this wholenew world of AI where students
can just take an assessment andrun it through AI and get AI to
do that for them.
(23:12):
Like, what advice would yougive to teachers around student
use of AI?
Speaker 2 (23:17):
You know teachers have been doing lots of
different things.
You know some just draw a hardline in the sand and say you
know, this is not just aboutgetting to the answer, it's
about learning how to think, andif you have AI doing the
thinking for you, then you'renot learning.
So no, we're not using AI, andthat's legitimate.
And I think every teacher knowstheir curriculum, their
students, their learning contextbest.
I think that's a legitimatething to do.
(23:39):
And then at the other end ofthe spectrum and I think it is a
spectrum of lots of differentapproaches we have teachers who
are openly using AI withstudents in the classroom,
allowing them to incorporate itin designated ways for specific
assignments, in designated waysfor specific assignments, having
kids analyze AI's output tonotice like is this better than
what you would have written onyour own?
(23:59):
What did AI do?
That was different?
How can we fact check it?
How can we be sure that it'saccurate and really teaching
kids how to analyze it, reallyembracing it and working it into
the curriculum so that it canhelp students kind of get past
those pieces that they can getbogged down on too.
You know it can really.
It can help them brainstorm asthey're writing.
(24:20):
It can help you know correctsome of their work.
It can help them stop focusingon things like am I spelling
this word correctly?
And just keep writing.
So it can be a reallybeneficial strategy for kids too
.
But it is difficult right now,particularly since a lot of
schools don't have policiesaround AI yet.
They don't have guidelines, andso it seems like at least in
(24:43):
the US, a lot of teachers aresort of on their own.
There's no school-wide strategyor approach.
So I think we're still in thebeginning stages of it, but
ultimately I think we're goingto reach a place where we guide
students to learn when is itappropriate to use AI.
I think that's really the idealis to help them think about it.
When is it going to be useful,when is it just doing the work
(25:05):
for you and preventing you fromlearning, and when is it helping
you learn?
So you know that's it's a loteasier to just ban it or to just
do everything paper and pencil,but ultimately I think that's
where we want to get with kidsis to help them, bring them into
that decision making andanalyzation so that they
understand responsible AI use,because it just it is a part of
life now.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Yeah and you have to kind of lean into it, don't you?
Because I'm sure theconversation around Google was
exactly the same, I'm sure thatthe conversation around having a
smartphone was the same, andlike there are things that it's
inevitable, like we are in anage where we are going to be
moving forward with AI.
This is the trajectory andyou're right, we just need to
(25:47):
lean into AI in a way that worksfor our learners.
You can tell when you know yousaid you know your learner you
can tell when a student has notwritten their own work.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Oh yeah, it's so obvious, yeah, I also think it's
going to.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
I think my thoughts around AI is going to change the
way that we assess studentlearning.
So in English I'm just thinkingabout my subject you would get
them to write write an essay,but maybe now you'd have to
submit your analysis of the textand, like you know, prove your
kind of conceptual understandingof the text, and there are
certain things that you can doto, um, I guess it's about
(26:23):
showing, like you know, when youshow the maths working out, so
you haven't used a calculator,it's that kind of thing, isn't
it?
But that's how I see myselfkind of getting around AI and
making sure students have donetheir own thinking and done
their own work.
But you know, you go into theworlds outside of school and you
will be using AI in theworkplace, and so I think we
(26:44):
also have a responsibility toequip students with the tool.
There are so many things aroundAI and you're right, it's like
this new landscape that we have.
You know we're treading thepath for the first time, so it's
just, you know, we're justworking out as we go along.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
It is, and it's a lot , especially when you know it
feels like there's been so manyother changes, particularly over
the last five years, forteachers and students in the way
we do school.
It's a lot and I understand thefrustration around it.
So, you know, my hope is thatteachers can use it in their own
personal work and then they canstart to understand it a little
bit better and see thepossibilities of it, instead of
it just being, you know, thisinconvenience that makes them
(27:21):
change the way they teach, whichis, you know, it's draining.
I get that.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, absolutely.
You were speaking about some ofthe kind of tools like magic,
magic school before and just acouple of other ways that
teachers can utilize AI.
But when I was looking at allof your brilliant work, I saw
that you were talking about,like just-in-time strategies,
rather than you know, just incase.
So I wanted to talk to youabout a couple of those.
(27:47):
So like what are a couple ofactionable just-in-time
strategies teachers can useimmediately to make their
teaching and their lives alittle bit easier so they can
live their beautiful lives andnot have to work outside of that
40 hours if they don't chooseto do that.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Yeah, you know, I think that's.
Another sort of problem of themodern age is that we have so
much information now, you knowit used to be the challenge was
going to find the information,having to go to a library and
look it up, and now we're justconstantly bombarded with things
all the time and it's reallyeasy to get bogged down in
trying to remember everything orlearn everything just in case.
(28:22):
Let me explore all thesedifferent tools, just in case I
ever need to use it.
Let me, you know, learn aboutthis kind of you know, behavior
issue or neuroscience issue, youknow, or new development, just
in case it's ever relevant.
I think instead we can look at,instead of just in case
learning, look at just-in-timelearning, so knowing where to go
and how to find the informationat the time that you need it,
(28:45):
instead of trying to carry allof this stuff around in your
working memory and trying tocollect and organize teaching
ideas.
That's another thing that I seethat older teachers in
particular seem to have adifficult time with, because,
you know, when we first startedteaching I started teaching in
the 90s and it was verydifficult to get teaching ideas
(29:07):
you had to go buy the teachingbooks and make the photocopies,
and so we would collect.
You know the whole stereotypeof teachers, just like hoarding
everything and keepingeverything for 30 years, and
there's this empty plasticcontainer.
You don't even know what you'regoing to do it with, but you
can't do with it, but you can'tthrow it out because you might
need it.
It's just in case.
It's learning that, you know,make you.
(29:29):
Being a good teacher does notcome from your stuff, it's you.
You are what makes yourclassroom, it's not your stuff.
You don't have to keepeverything, you don't have to
know everything, you don't haveto collect every possible
teaching resource.
And that really ties intosaving yourself time later,
because the more stuff that youhave, the more time you take
maintaining it, organizing it,straightening up, looking
(29:49):
through things, and I see that alot with lesson planning.
So teachers are thinking thatthey're planning in advance, but
really what they've done isthey've narrowed it down to like
four or five different things.
And there's this idea that Ihave to wait until the night
before the lesson, after I'veseen what kids did that day, to
try to plan the next day'slesson, because I, you know, I
(30:15):
have to be responsive to studentneeds and the reality is when
you you know, when you'refamiliar with your curriculum
and your grade level.
It's not obvious at first whenyou're new to your curriculum or
to your grade level, but overtime you start to realize okay,
this is where kids normally haveproblems, this is the part that
normally doesn't stick, and youstart to see those patterns and
then you can prepare for that,instead of always having to plan
the night before Because a lotof teachers are going in, you
(30:37):
know, the night before andthey're looking through like 15
different ideas Like I could dothis, I could do this, I could
do this, and it's overwhelmingbecause there's so much out
there.
So, instead of trying to collectall these different ideas just
in case you ever need them or,you know, having four extra
things to do just in case wehave extra time in class, you
(30:57):
know which, for the most part,is not really the case to
accumulate everything and totrust yourself, trust that you
can find what you need, trustthat you can get the resources
really coming from thisabundance mindset instead of a
scarcity mindset.
(31:18):
And making decisions I think isanother piece of that too, of
not just sort of leaving it like, well, maybe I'll either do
this one or this one.
It's like no, just make thedecision, write it down.
That's what you're doing,because when you're stuck in
that day by day lesson planningtrap, then you never get to
relax, you never get a night offbecause you're always worried
about what you're going to dothe next day.
(31:39):
And that, to me, is is one ofthe the biggest stressors for
teachers, and so much of it iscentered on this idea that
that's what we have to do, to beresponsive to kids, to kids
needs, and it really is not true.
We can plan for scaffolding, wecan plan for going back and
reteaching, instead of waitingtill the night before to figure
(31:59):
out what we're going to do forthat.
So that's a lot to say aboutjust in time strategies, but I
feel like it's a big issue thatcan really stretch out into lots
of different areas.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
It's like you saw a vision of me in my first few
years of teaching.
You know there was this bigpush for project-based learning
and there was a big push forconcept-based teaching and you
know, I obviously like there arethings that we can like weave
into our practice now.
But because there was like thisbig push around those things, I
(32:33):
felt like every lesson had tobe really innovative and really
exciting and so the Nate, likeone lesson was taking like five
hours to plan.
I'm like this is ridiculous.
How can I do this?
So I absolutely love everythingthat you've just said.
It just resonates so much and Iknow that's going to resonate
with my listeners as well.
(32:54):
Listen, Angela, if you could goback in time because that you
said you started teaching in the90s and a lot has changed since
then if you could go back toyour very first year of teaching
, knowing what you know now, andgive yourself a piece of advice
, what would that piece ofadvice be?
Speaker 2 (33:14):
I would tell myself to stop trying to find the
definitive system that will workforever and instead to practice
non-attachment.
So what I mean by that is I ama person who feels like there's
an optimal way to do things.
I want to find the optimal way,and so I would do things.
Like you know, I remember oneyear we had new state standards
(33:35):
come in and so I wrote them.
We had to display them for thestudents, so I wrote them all in
chart strips and laminated them.
It took hours and hours andhours.
But I'm like well, now I'm good, now I have them.
They're like all organized inthis you you know little box
(33:57):
that I have them like tabs so Ican find them.
Well, the standards changed.
Three years later we had allnew standards.
So all that work was for nothing, and I didn't realize that as a
young teacher, how much changethere was going to be and that
trying to find something thatwould always work is just not
only a school's going to change,but I'm going to change.
And when I put a lot of timeinto things that I assume I will
use forever, then what it didwas.
It made me not want to innovatebecause it's like well, I don't
want to do something adifferent way because I spent
all these hours setting thisother thing up and then that
(34:18):
would make me bored.
You know, I like new challengesand the creativity of teaching
is a big draw for me.
So if I'm doing the same thingyear after year after year, I'm
going to get really bored.
And if I have invested too muchtime into the way that I've set
things up, then I'm not goingto want to do something
differently.
So that's where thenon-attachment really comes in,
(34:39):
where it's like this is all anexperiment.
Productivity is an experiment.
How I run the classroom is anexperiment.
I'm always going to be tryingnew things.
It doesn't have to be exactlyright.
Every lesson, as you're saying,claire, doesn't have to be
innovative.
It doesn't have to be amazing.
You know it's like if you thinkabout, you know the meals that
you create, not every dinnerthat you make is amazing, right,
(35:01):
some are just they work.
You know it's like it servesits purpose.
You got the nutrition that youneeded, you're full, that's it.
It wasn't amazing.
Other meals are spectacular andother meals are just really not
that great.
And I feel like it's the samething with lesson planning, like
don't try to make every lesson,just hit it out of the park.
Find things that work and reusethem over and over again.
(35:21):
You know you can in.
You can just make small tweaksto keep things fresh and
interesting.
But kids love to know that theyhave that predictability, that
routine where they know how tobe successful.
They've done something similarbefore, they know what's coming
and they can thrive in that kindof situation.
So don't feel like you alwayshave to look for the next new
thing.
Always be trying to findsomething brand new and trying
(35:43):
to find that thing that willwork forever.
Just invest your time in it.
You know something that'salways going to work for every
class every year.
I don't think that thing exists.
It took me a long time toaccept that, because I don't
want to accept that, but thatwould be.
My advice to myself is to stoptrying to find this once and for
all thing that is always goingto work and just don't be so
(36:05):
attached to what I'm doing.
Be a little bit more playfulwith it.
Take myself a little lessseriously.
Take students' responses to thelessons a little bit more
playful with it.
Take myself a little lessseriously.
Take students' responses to thelessons a little bit less
seriously and just try to enjoythe process more, because it
really is a lifelong experimentthis whole process of teaching
and learning.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
It really really is, and it just made me think like
so I've been teaching for 14years and this year, or last
year now 2024 I started mymembership, the behavior club,
and I started to create a lot ofresources for teachers.
I look back at the resources Iwas creating six months ago and
I think, no, don't like him, andthat was six months ago.
(36:43):
And I've been teaching 14 yearsbecause we are constantly on a
journey of reinventing ourstyles, ourself, our
understanding around things, andyou can't get attached to it
and if you're not looking backand cringing, you're not growing
.
So don't feel like you're goingto create something for the
first time.
You're going to love it forever.
So I just love that advice somuch and I hope that a lot of my
(37:05):
listeners who are in theirfirst years have gotten so much
from this conversation.
I trust that they have, becauseyou are just such a fountain of
knowledge around this stuff.
And, yeah, where were you 14years ago, gosh?
Finally, if anybody islistening and they would love to
come into your sphere, whatsupport do you offer for
(37:27):
teachers and where can teachersgo to find you?
Speaker 2 (37:31):
So the best place to go is truthforteacherscom.
So that's where you'll findlots of articles from current
classroom teachers about what'sworking in their rooms.
You'll find my podcast there,my books, the curriculum that
I've created called Finding Flowthat helps kids manage their
time, energy and attention, andyou can find out about the 40
hour teacher work week and allof the 40 hour AI resources
(37:53):
there.
So everything's attruthforteacherscom.
And, of course, you can followme on socials too.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Thank you so much, angela, and I'll obviously pop
all of those links in the shownotes so people can find you
super easy.
But thank you so much forjoining me today on the podcast,
angela.
Thanks, claire.
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