This week I’m doing something a little different – answering your questions! I asked over on Instagram what you needed support with when it comes to behaviour, and wow… you delivered.
In this episode, I’m giving practical advice for three of the big ones:
- What to do when students gang up on you
- How to motivate learners who refuse to try
- How to manage the class clown without losing the room
These aren’t fluffy hypotheticals – they’re the actual struggles you’re navigating day to day, and I’m so excited to support you through them. And don’t worry, these are just the beginning – if you love this format, I’ll keep them coming!
Drop any questions to claire@the-unteachables.com or over on Instagram!
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
RESOURCES AND MORE SUPPORT:
- Shop all resources
- Join The Behaviour Club
- My book! It’s Never Just About the Behaviour: A holistic approach to classroom behaviour management
- The Low-Level Behaviour Bootcamp
- Free guide: 'Chats that Create Change'
Connect with me:
- Follow on Instagram @the.unteachables
- Check out my website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh, hi there, teachers, welcome to the
Unteachables podcast.
I'm your host, claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, lovely teacher, welcomeback to the Teacher's Podcast.
I'm Claire English, I'm yourhost and today I am doing a Q&A
episode, which I don't usuallydo.
I don't think I've ever done aQ&A episode before.
(01:04):
So instead of usually do Idon't think I've ever done a Q&A
episode before so instead of mepicking the topic, you did.
I put a little question box upon Instagram last week asking
what you needed support withwhen it comes to behavior.
I said what are you strugglingwith?
How can I help you?
And you delivered a bunch ofquestions that are just so good
to talk through, for God.
I've got enough material formultiple, multiple, multiple
(01:27):
episodes, but in this episode,I'll just do three of those big
questions.
So the three questions are whatto do when you feel like a
couple of students are gangingup on you, how to motivate
students who refuse to try, andone that I'm sure a lot of you
are going to love listening to,which is how to deal with a
class clown these honestly,there were so many of these
(01:48):
questions, and I love these.
I think I'll love these episodes.
I mean, I'm only just startingto record the first one, but I
love these because they aren'tfluffy, like hypotheticals or
you know, things that are likejust theory.
These are day-to-day challengesthat you're experiencing right
now in your classroom, so, beingable to kind of talk through
(02:10):
these things and how I wouldapproach them, or things to kind
of reframe your ideas around it, or you know, I think it's
really beneficial.
Please remember, though, that Iwill be obviously answering
them the best that I can, butI'll be doing this without any
knowledge of the context aroundthem.
So please remember that it'svery general advice when it
(02:31):
comes to behavior and classroommanagement.
My gosh, it is so nuanced.
So for more in-depth advice,please, if you're in the
behavior club, come and ask inthe community, because that's
where I'll always be able tokind of dig deeper into the
context.
And if you want to be in thebehavior club, if you really
want me as your mentor and getall of the things that come
along with that, the behaviorclub is the space to get it.
(02:53):
But we are currently atcapacity.
So if you want to join the waitlist, you can head to
the-unteachablescom forwardslash TBC, which stands for the
behavior club, and you can jointhe wait list there and I will
let you know when doors reopen.
I'm planning to reopen them inlike August-ish, july, august.
It just depends on how we geton with that.
(03:15):
So, yeah, that is it.
But, as always, you know, whenit comes to these questions,
that I'll be answering.
There's no judgment.
You know we listen and we don'tjudge.
There's no perfectionism, it isjust support, it's all support.
So let's dive in.
So the first question is I wouldlove ideas to deal with two
students ganging up on me.
(03:36):
Well, this is a big one becausewe need to reframe that power
dynamic, because when it comesto students ganging up on you,
we really need to think aboutwhat that actually looks like.
Often, when it's in the middleof the lesson, it's quite
performative.
Two students teaming up isusually about, you know, testing
boundaries or meeting their funneed, or maybe meeting their
(03:57):
power needs or you know, tryingto look a certain way in front
of the class or each other.
They're probably feeding offeach other and it's usually not
about you, oh my gosh.
But please know that, eventhough there are certain reasons
driving these behaviors fromyou know being their power and
fun need to their love andbelonging need, it does not
excuse the behavior and thesestudents need to understand that
(04:20):
.
Obviously, it can feel veryintimidating in the moment, it
can feel very embarrassing, itcan feel very isolating.
These type of behaviors bringup a lot for us as teachers,
especially if we feel like it isin the middle of the lesson.
And remember as well that I'mspeaking about this with no
other context other than gangingup on me, in inverted commas.
(04:41):
So please know that I don'tknow the context and the
severity of it.
If it is something serious,please go and seek support
within your school.
So this is how I would dealwith it.
I would always follow upindividually and not as a pair,
if you really want them toreflect and take accountability
and show some empathy.
This is always going to bebetter done one-to-one, where
there's less pressure for themto continue that performance in
(05:03):
front of their friend or act ina certain way in front of their
friend, and also to make surethat you are addressing it in a
way that they'll see as serious.
It's not going to work justlecturing the students.
Often when we start lecturing,lecturing is one of William
Glass's disconnecting habits.
So in discussions that you havewith them, be sure to use
(05:23):
language that encourages thosestudents to reflect and take
accountability.
And when we start, like whenyou're thinking about that kind
of language, always ask yourselfam I doing the talking or am I
getting students to think aboutthings and then do the talking
themselves?
Because we should be askingquestions and not telling them
things.
And of course, there's time inthe discussion for me to say you
know, can I just explain frommy point of view what's
(05:45):
happening or can I just give youa different perspective?
However, most of the time, itshould be the student reflecting
and talking and us facilitatingthat.
So the kind of questions thatyou might like to ask are you
know, why do you think I'm goingto talk to you today?
Like, why might you think thatyou're here talking to me?
Can you explain what washappening in the lesson?
What might the problem be withthat?
Do you think that's hurtful orharmful when I have one person,
(06:09):
you know, when you have oneperson standing here and you've
got two people saying thingsthat are rude or nasty or
laughing, what might the problembe there?
Like, why might that beproblematic?
I need to draw a line underthis, because is it acceptable
behavior, you know?
Is that acceptable?
Is it kind?
Is it fair?
No, thank you for acknowledgingthat.
It can be classified asbullying.
It can be classified asharassment or just being really
(06:32):
unkind.
You can say do we have to bebest friends?
No, of course not.
I'm your teacher.
What can the plan be for nextlesson?
I'll be letting mom and dadknow about the discussion we've
had.
If it happens again, do youthink I need to follow this up?
Yes, how do you think I mightneed to follow this up?
What might be the next logicalstep.
So all the time, like reallyasking these questions and
getting that feedback from thestudents and coming to a
(06:54):
resolution in that way, and thenstay really consistent and firm
in your response once you'vemade that plan and follow it up
really promptly.
If it happens again, make sureyou're following up that plan.
So that is initially how Iwould respond to that question.
Around two students that seemto be ganging up on you, really
drawing a line under it, havingthose discussions separately,
(07:16):
making sure that parents andcarers are in the loop.
What I will say as well, thoughif you don't feel comfortable
doing this, if the if ganging upis something more serious in
the context that you're talkingabout, please make sure you're
getting somebody to to have thatdiscussion with you and the
student and act as like a bit ofa support for you or just like
(07:37):
the middleman.
What I also find hard issometimes, when we're having
these discussions with studentsand it's become really personal,
it can be really hard for us tostay really measured when it
comes to the discussions we'rehaving.
So just be really mindful ofthat.
But that is the initial waythat I would deal with that
situation.
The next question that I got washow to motivate reluctant
(07:59):
learners who refuse to giveanything a go, which I know a
lot of you out there arethinking yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
.
I know I am experiencing thesame thing so hard.
They come in, they put theirhead down, they don't do
anything.
First up, let's start with thisbeautiful Ross Green quote,
which is kids do well when theycan, not when they feel like it,
(08:22):
not when they want to impressyou when they can.
So when you've got a studentwho seems totally unmotivated,
when they won't even try, thefirst thing I'd encourage you to
do is reframe what you'reseeing, because refusal isn't
always defiance.
Sometimes it's fear of failingagain.
Maybe it's embarrassment youknow fear of embarrassment in
(08:43):
front of their peers.
Maybe it's confusion.
They don't know how to ask youabout what's going on.
Maybe it's just their beliefsystem telling them that they're
dumb or lazy or not good enough.
Maybe it's just a good oldfashioned shutdown.
Maybe there is a nervous systemsaying this doesn't feel safe,
this doesn't feel good, so I'mjust going to put my head down
and not do any work.
They are not opting out becausethey're lazy.
(09:05):
Usually.
Usually they're just protectingthemselves and also laziness
Think about the last time youwere lazy.
Is it because you were feelinglazy or was it because you were
feeling overwhelmed oroverstimulated or exhausted and
needed a break?
Like I think we need to giveourselves and others a lot of
grace for the moments where we,where we feel lazy.
(09:27):
Maybe we're just stuck, maybewe don't know how to move
forward.
You know like I used to callmyself lazy all of the time, but
I was just in total shutdownmode.
I just didn't know how to moveforward when I was at university
.
So, anyway, there could be awhole variety of reasons why a
student's opting out or notopting in at all, you know, to
learning.
So here's what I do Rememberthat I don't know the student
(09:50):
that you're talking about ortheir full story and whoever's
listening.
I don't know the con, like youknow the really complex context
around this student.
So here is my general advice.
My general advice is always tobe very careful to push students
and to try to motivate them bysaying things like come on, it's
not that hard.
You know, it can be a littlebit of an instinct sometimes,
(10:13):
but usually it can shut themdown further.
So really thinking aboutcreating some gentle on ramps to
work in a way that feels reallyemotionally safe and doable,
and they need to feel that theycan't fail with it.
They need to feel like it'sreally doable for them.
So what that actually lookslike in the moment in the
classroom, the first thing couldbe just offering them one small
(10:33):
step forward, you know, just tobuild some momentum, just to
get some confidence up.
So maybe they just write onesentence, maybe your job is to
get them to write their name onthe page and have some ownership
over the work they're doing.
Maybe they answer somethingverbally to you rather than
writing it down, maybe theycircle something like just the
first small step, just somethingto get them on the on-ramp Like
(10:55):
that's it, just one thing.
The next thing to try is, like alittle gentle on-ramp is to
scaffold the task, so break itinto chunks, you know, provide a
model, give some sentencestarters and remove that
overwhelm before they get tothat point.
So maybe you could just say tothe student use one like pick a
sentence starter and copy thatdown like anything to get them
to put pen to paper Again, areally soft launch into the task
(11:16):
itself.
And you know you might say tome well, you're lowering the bar
, you're lowering theexpectations.
I am not.
I am offering an in to the workthat we can then really build
on.
I'm trying to find something toleverage with that student so
then I can start to build insome more supports for them.
(11:36):
We can't do that without themeven picking up a pen and
getting started.
If they write their name on thepage, maybe that's success for
them, that lesson.
If they write down the sentencestarter, I can go oh my gosh,
like you did that really well, Ican see that you really get it.
That was a good choice ofsentence starter.
Like, what might we do nextafter that sentence starter?
What's one more step we cantake?
It's just an on-ramp.
(11:56):
It's not to say that I willexpect that forever from them.
It's just something to get themstarted.
The next one is to give them acouple of choices.
So even if those options arelike really small, like would
you rather write that or tell methis tiny bit of autonomy, and
just by you offering a couple ofchoices that both feel quite
doable can feel huge when a kidfeels stuck or powerless, and
help them just to overcome thatbarrier and then make a choice
(12:19):
to move forward and pick up apen or say something to you or
anything to get them to start toengage in the learning.
The next one is to maybe use alittle bit of humor or
playfulness to lower the stakes.
You know, it's obviously not tomake light of their struggle,
but in a way that takes thepressure off.
Like you know, I can write aweirder sentence than you Do.
You want to try to beat me, orI need you to help me come up
(12:40):
with the worst possible answer,like the most wrong answer that
we can possibly come up with inthis class.
Can you do it?
You know something, something,something, something that will
engage them because, at theheart of it, this is not about
the task, it's about safety.
It's about creating conditionswhere trying feels okay and
trying feels safe again, andsafe and small isn't dumbing it
(13:01):
down, it's just beingemotionally intelligent when
we're teaching.
It's how we rebuild trust withkids who've learned and they've
learned often the hard way thateffort equals embarrassment or
failure or whatever.
It might be Okay.
So really just doing the littlelittle things to get them on the
on-ramp, you know, and if allthey managed that day is
(13:23):
starting the task, that's a win.
If they let you sit beside themand talk it through with them,
that's a win.
And if they write two wordswhen they usually write nothing,
that's a huge win.
And we celebrate those micromovements because that's how
momentum starts and grows.
And hey, if they don't respondright away like it doesn't mean
you failed.
It doesn't mean you failed, itjust means that they just need a
(13:44):
bit more time.
So keep showing up withconsistency, keep holding that
door open.
That's how you crack it, youknow, that's how you get them on
that on-ramp to get moreengagement and to feel more
confident in your lesson.
Okay, that was for the secondquestion.
Remember that everyone's goingto be different.
It's going to be different,it's going to be a different
(14:08):
situation for everyone.
But I hope that was helpful.
And now the third and finalquestion I'll be answering today
is how to deal with a classclown, the one that says random
things to get you and classmatesto laugh.
First up, acknowledge the needbeneath the behavior, because
this kind of behavior is rarelyabout being disrespectful, and I
know that it can feel verydisrespectful and it can feel
frustrating, it can feel reallyannoying, but usually these
behaviors are about that studenttrying to belong, trying to
(14:32):
find significance, trying tofind connection and yeah, it is
often a connection bit, even ifit's chaotic and inconvenient
and all the things Kids who arethe class clown are often saying
please see me, please laughwith me, let me feel important
even for a second.
And if we jump straight topunishment or shame with these
students, we miss the need.
(14:54):
And when that need is not met,that behavior will usually
continue to ramp up.
And that does not mean we letit slide.
That just means we respond withunderstanding first rather than
anger, because if you don't dothat it'll make it harder.
So don't battle the clown.
Hold your boundary, but don'tturn it into a power struggle.
You don't need to out, funnythem or outsmart them.
(15:16):
You're not going to win, evenif you feel like you've won.
You've just kind of shamed astudent into silence and that in
the long run is going to cause,it's going to just make the
behaviors manifest in differentways, so it's not going to help
in the long run.
You don't need to snap.
If they snap, they'll feed offit, they'll have a bit of a
laugh and that'll make you morefrustrated.
We'll make things harder andharder.
(15:38):
But you do need to hold theline and you harder and harder,
but you do need to hold the lineand you do need to hold the
line calmly and clearly andconsistently.
The best thing to do is not togive it any airtime in the
lesson.
As much as humanly possible,just use your nonverbals as a
cue that it was not the righttime and then resume when the
class is quiet.
But sometimes you might need tosay something and, by the way,
(16:00):
when I'm talking about thenonverbals as a cue to kind of
resume, so just say if you're inthe middle of a discussion with
the class, if you're givingteacher-led instructions and
they're piping up, just simplypause.
Hold your nonverbals, hold yourcredibility and that will be a
very big nonverbal signal thatyou're not going to continue
your discussion until that kindof you know stuff quiets down.
But sometimes you might needand again, it's all to do with
(16:25):
the context, it's all to do withyour rapport If you've got a
really good rapport with thatstudent, you might need to say
something like saving the energyfor the playground, you know,
like something like that.
Or I'm parking that one, let'sgo back to the learning, or, you
know, keep that in your backpocket for later.
We'll talk about it when it'smore appropriate, or all right,
that's the last one, everyone,you know, attention back on me.
(16:45):
You know, attention back on me.
You know we've had our laugh.
Now it's learning mode, so youjust it's going to have to be
really responsive to the contextand what's happening in the
lesson.
I find that a non-verbal, likepause, will more than often do
the trick.
But if it's something that'scontinuing and I have got a good
relationship with that studentand a good relationship with the
(17:07):
class, and if I know that it'sgoing to help rather than hinder
me to get back to learning,I'll say something like that,
because you know it's it's awarm tone, but it's a firm tone
with a little bit of a playfullike I'm not mad but like let's
steer this ship back to thelearning kind of energy.
And it's not about lecturing,it's just like a little gentle
(17:34):
nudge back to what we were doing.
And it's just really importantto remember that we can't
humiliate them because shamewill fuel what's going on and
again it's just not going to endwell, like it's just going to
keep getting harder and harderfor you.
Another thing you can try withthe class clown energy is
actually kind of just lean intoit a little bit Like obviously
not in, not when it's beingdisruptive to the learning, but
kind of give them a bit of apro-social role.
So like you know, rightstrength but wrong context, like
(17:57):
it's okay to be funny and a bitsilly, but it's not the right
time right now.
So maybe they can have a bit ofa role in the class where they
read out the vocab words withlike silly voices or you know,
you can give them a classroomjob that involves movement or
attention or you know, likesomething like that.
Or ask them to help you withsomething that makes them feel
trusted or something that willkind of channel that energy into
(18:21):
something else, because you'renot rewarding the disruption,
you're just redirecting thatenergy somewhere.
You're not saying like you'retoo much, you're just putting
that energy somewhere else.
Because remember that underneaththat class clown is a kid who
of course wants to be seen andliked and included, and your
calm presence with a little bitof gentle redirection and just a
(18:41):
really big belief in theirgoodness.
And I say that because it'sreally hard sometimes to
remember when a student is beingreally disruptive and loud and
out there, like rememberingthey're good kids and they're
just trying to have a laugh andthey're meeting their needs in
the best way they can at themoment.
And they're teenagers, they'reimpulsive and like there's just
(19:03):
so much going on there with likeso much going on there with,
like the social roles andbelonging and power and all
those things that are going onwithin them and the way they're
trying to meet their needs.
So all of those things togethercan just be a game changer.
So a calm presence, a gentleredirection, a belief in their
goodness, you know, those thingscan just be such a game changer
(19:25):
when dealing with students whoare being a little bit
disruptive and, you know, tryingto be a bit of a class clown.
So that is all for the Q&A thisweek.
I hope that at least one ofthose things was helpful or
relevant to your situation or achallenge you're going through
at the moment, and I willdefinitely bring some more of
these episodes back.
If you have a question and youwould like me to answer it on
(19:45):
one of these episodes, feel freeto pop into my Instagram or my
inbox.
My Instagram is theunteachablesand my email address is claire
at the-unteachablescom.
Come and ask me a question andI would love to try to feature
it on one of these episodes.
I've got a fair few questionslined up, but I would love to
try to get as many as possible,because I do think that these
(20:05):
episodes and I'm like you knowbringing it into the classroom,
into real situations and showingyou how it approached, I think
that's really beneficial just toget it kind of, you know,
feeling more real worlds,because it can be really hard on
a podcast.
I'm not there with you sittingbeside you, mentoring you.
So, yeah, as much as we can dowith that, the better.
Okay, wonderful teachers, untilnext week I will see you then.
(20:28):
Take care.
Bye for now.
Oh, hi there, teachers, welcome to the
Unteachables podcast.
I'm your host, claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, lovely teacher, welcomeback to the Teacher's Podcast.
I'm Claire English, I'm yourhost and today I am doing a Q&A
episode, which I don't usuallydo.
I don't think I've ever done aQ&A episode before.
(01:04):
So instead of usually do Idon't think I've ever done a Q&A
episode before so instead of mepicking the topic, you did.
I put a little question box upon Instagram last week asking
what you needed support withwhen it comes to behavior.
I said what are you strugglingwith?
How can I help you?
And you delivered a bunch ofquestions that are just so good
to talk through, for God.
I've got enough material formultiple, multiple, multiple
(01:27):
episodes, but in this episode,I'll just do three of those big
questions.
So the three questions are whatto do when you feel like a
couple of students are gangingup on you, how to motivate
students who refuse to try, andone that I'm sure a lot of you
are going to love listening to,which is how to deal with a
class clown these honestly,there were so many of these
(01:48):
questions, and I love these.
I think I'll love these episodes.
I mean, I'm only just startingto record the first one, but I
love these because they aren'tfluffy, like hypotheticals or
you know, things that are likejust theory.
These are day-to-day challengesthat you're experiencing right
now in your classroom, so, beingable to kind of talk through
(02:10):
these things and how I wouldapproach them, or things to kind
of reframe your ideas around it, or you know, I think it's
really beneficial.
Please remember, though, that Iwill be obviously answering
them the best that I can, butI'll be doing this without any
knowledge of the context aroundthem.
So please remember that it'svery general advice when it
(02:31):
comes to behavior and classroommanagement.
My gosh, it is so nuanced.
So for more in-depth advice,please, if you're in the
behavior club, come and ask inthe community, because that's
where I'll always be able tokind of dig deeper into the
context.
And if you want to be in thebehavior club, if you really
want me as your mentor and getall of the things that come
along with that, the behaviorclub is the space to get it.
(02:53):
But we are currently atcapacity.
So if you want to join the waitlist, you can head to
the-unteachablescom forwardslash TBC, which stands for the
behavior club, and you can jointhe wait list there and I will
let you know when doors reopen.
I'm planning to reopen them inlike August-ish, july, august.
It just depends on how we geton with that.
(03:15):
So, yeah, that is it.
But, as always, you know, whenit comes to these questions,
that I'll be answering.
There's no judgment.
You know we listen and we don'tjudge.
There's no perfectionism, it isjust support, it's all support.
So let's dive in.
So the first question is I wouldlove ideas to deal with two
students ganging up on me.
(03:36):
Well, this is a big one becausewe need to reframe that power
dynamic, because when it comesto students ganging up on you,
we really need to think aboutwhat that actually looks like.
Often, when it's in the middleof the lesson, it's quite
performative.
Two students teaming up isusually about, you know, testing
boundaries or meeting their funneed, or maybe meeting their
(03:57):
power needs or you know, tryingto look a certain way in front
of the class or each other.
They're probably feeding offeach other and it's usually not
about you, oh my gosh.
But please know that, eventhough there are certain reasons
driving these behaviors fromyou know being their power and
fun need to their love andbelonging need, it does not
excuse the behavior and thesestudents need to understand that
(04:20):
.
Obviously, it can feel veryintimidating in the moment, it
can feel very embarrassing, itcan feel very isolating.
These type of behaviors bringup a lot for us as teachers,
especially if we feel like it isin the middle of the lesson.
And remember as well that I'mspeaking about this with no
other context other than gangingup on me, in inverted commas.
(04:41):
So please know that I don'tknow the context and the
severity of it.
If it is something serious,please go and seek support
within your school.
So this is how I would dealwith it.
I would always follow upindividually and not as a pair,
if you really want them toreflect and take accountability
and show some empathy.
This is always going to bebetter done one-to-one, where
there's less pressure for themto continue that performance in
(05:03):
front of their friend or act ina certain way in front of their
friend, and also to make surethat you are addressing it in a
way that they'll see as serious.
It's not going to work justlecturing the students.
Often when we start lecturing,lecturing is one of William
Glass's disconnecting habits.
So in discussions that you havewith them, be sure to use
(05:23):
language that encourages thosestudents to reflect and take
accountability.
And when we start, like whenyou're thinking about that kind
of language, always ask yourselfam I doing the talking or am I
getting students to think aboutthings and then do the talking
themselves?
Because we should be askingquestions and not telling them
things.
And of course, there's time inthe discussion for me to say you
know, can I just explain frommy point of view what's
(05:45):
happening or can I just give youa different perspective?
However, most of the time, itshould be the student reflecting
and talking and us facilitatingthat.
So the kind of questions thatyou might like to ask are you
know, why do you think I'm goingto talk to you today?
Like, why might you think thatyou're here talking to me?
Can you explain what washappening in the lesson?
What might the problem be withthat?
Do you think that's hurtful orharmful when I have one person,
(06:09):
you know, when you have oneperson standing here and you've
got two people saying thingsthat are rude or nasty or
laughing, what might the problembe there?
Like, why might that beproblematic?
I need to draw a line underthis, because is it acceptable
behavior, you know?
Is that acceptable?
Is it kind?
Is it fair?
No, thank you for acknowledgingthat.
It can be classified asbullying.
It can be classified asharassment or just being really
(06:32):
unkind.
You can say do we have to bebest friends?
No, of course not.
I'm your teacher.
What can the plan be for nextlesson?
I'll be letting mom and dadknow about the discussion we've
had.
If it happens again, do youthink I need to follow this up?
Yes, how do you think I mightneed to follow this up?
What might be the next logicalstep.
So all the time, like reallyasking these questions and
getting that feedback from thestudents and coming to a
(06:54):
resolution in that way, and thenstay really consistent and firm
in your response once you'vemade that plan and follow it up
really promptly.
If it happens again, make sureyou're following up that plan.
So that is initially how Iwould respond to that question.
Around two students that seemto be ganging up on you, really
drawing a line under it, havingthose discussions separately,
(07:16):
making sure that parents andcarers are in the loop.
What I will say as well, thoughif you don't feel comfortable
doing this, if the if ganging upis something more serious in
the context that you're talkingabout, please make sure you're
getting somebody to to have thatdiscussion with you and the
student and act as like a bit ofa support for you or just like
(07:37):
the middleman.
What I also find hard issometimes, when we're having
these discussions with studentsand it's become really personal,
it can be really hard for us tostay really measured when it
comes to the discussions we'rehaving.
So just be really mindful ofthat.
But that is the initial waythat I would deal with that
situation.
The next question that I got washow to motivate reluctant
(07:59):
learners who refuse to giveanything a go, which I know a
lot of you out there arethinking yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
.
I know I am experiencing thesame thing so hard.
They come in, they put theirhead down, they don't do
anything.
First up, let's start with thisbeautiful Ross Green quote,
which is kids do well when theycan, not when they feel like it,
(08:22):
not when they want to impressyou when they can.
So when you've got a studentwho seems totally unmotivated,
when they won't even try, thefirst thing I'd encourage you to
do is reframe what you'reseeing, because refusal isn't
always defiance.
Sometimes it's fear of failingagain.
Maybe it's embarrassment youknow fear of embarrassment in
(08:43):
front of their peers.
Maybe it's confusion.
They don't know how to ask youabout what's going on.
Maybe it's just their beliefsystem telling them that they're
dumb or lazy or not good enough.
Maybe it's just a good oldfashioned shutdown.
Maybe there is a nervous systemsaying this doesn't feel safe,
this doesn't feel good, so I'mjust going to put my head down
and not do any work.
They are not opting out becausethey're lazy.
(09:05):
Usually.
Usually they're just protectingthemselves and also laziness
Think about the last time youwere lazy.
Is it because you were feelinglazy or was it because you were
feeling overwhelmed oroverstimulated or exhausted and
needed a break?
Like I think we need to giveourselves and others a lot of
grace for the moments where we,where we feel lazy.
(09:27):
Maybe we're just stuck, maybewe don't know how to move
forward.
You know like I used to callmyself lazy all of the time, but
I was just in total shutdownmode.
I just didn't know how to moveforward when I was at university
.
So, anyway, there could be awhole variety of reasons why a
student's opting out or notopting in at all, you know, to
learning.
So here's what I do Rememberthat I don't know the student
(09:50):
that you're talking about ortheir full story and whoever's
listening.
I don't know the con, like youknow the really complex context
around this student.
So here is my general advice.
My general advice is always tobe very careful to push students
and to try to motivate them bysaying things like come on, it's
not that hard.
You know, it can be a littlebit of an instinct sometimes,
(10:13):
but usually it can shut themdown further.
So really thinking aboutcreating some gentle on ramps to
work in a way that feels reallyemotionally safe and doable,
and they need to feel that theycan't fail with it.
They need to feel like it'sreally doable for them.
So what that actually lookslike in the moment in the
classroom, the first thing couldbe just offering them one small
(10:33):
step forward, you know, just tobuild some momentum, just to
get some confidence up.
So maybe they just write onesentence, maybe your job is to
get them to write their name onthe page and have some ownership
over the work they're doing.
Maybe they answer somethingverbally to you rather than
writing it down, maybe theycircle something like just the
first small step, just somethingto get them on the on-ramp Like
(10:55):
that's it, just one thing.
The next thing to try is, like alittle gentle on-ramp is to
scaffold the task, so break itinto chunks, you know, provide a
model, give some sentencestarters and remove that
overwhelm before they get tothat point.
So maybe you could just say tothe student use one like pick a
sentence starter and copy thatdown like anything to get them
to put pen to paper Again, areally soft launch into the task
(11:16):
itself.
And you know you might say tome well, you're lowering the bar
, you're lowering theexpectations.
I am not.
I am offering an in to the workthat we can then really build
on.
I'm trying to find something toleverage with that student so
then I can start to build insome more supports for them.
(11:36):
We can't do that without themeven picking up a pen and
getting started.
If they write their name on thepage, maybe that's success for
them, that lesson.
If they write down the sentencestarter, I can go oh my gosh,
like you did that really well, Ican see that you really get it.
That was a good choice ofsentence starter.
Like, what might we do nextafter that sentence starter?
What's one more step we cantake?
It's just an on-ramp.
(11:56):
It's not to say that I willexpect that forever from them.
It's just something to get themstarted.
The next one is to give them acouple of choices.
So even if those options arelike really small, like would
you rather write that or tell methis tiny bit of autonomy, and
just by you offering a couple ofchoices that both feel quite
doable can feel huge when a kidfeels stuck or powerless, and
help them just to overcome thatbarrier and then make a choice
(12:19):
to move forward and pick up apen or say something to you or
anything to get them to start toengage in the learning.
The next one is to maybe use alittle bit of humor or
playfulness to lower the stakes.
You know, it's obviously not tomake light of their struggle,
but in a way that takes thepressure off.
Like you know, I can write aweirder sentence than you Do.
You want to try to beat me, orI need you to help me come up
(12:40):
with the worst possible answer,like the most wrong answer that
we can possibly come up with inthis class.
Can you do it?
You know something, something,something, something that will
engage them because, at theheart of it, this is not about
the task, it's about safety.
It's about creating conditionswhere trying feels okay and
trying feels safe again, andsafe and small isn't dumbing it
(13:01):
down, it's just beingemotionally intelligent when
we're teaching.
It's how we rebuild trust withkids who've learned and they've
learned often the hard way thateffort equals embarrassment or
failure or whatever.
It might be Okay.
So really just doing the littlelittle things to get them on the
on-ramp, you know, and if allthey managed that day is
(13:23):
starting the task, that's a win.
If they let you sit beside themand talk it through with them,
that's a win.
And if they write two wordswhen they usually write nothing,
that's a huge win.
And we celebrate those micromovements because that's how
momentum starts and grows.
And hey, if they don't respondright away like it doesn't mean
you failed.
It doesn't mean you failed, itjust means that they just need a
(13:44):
bit more time.
So keep showing up withconsistency, keep holding that
door open.
That's how you crack it, youknow, that's how you get them on
that on-ramp to get moreengagement and to feel more
confident in your lesson.
Okay, that was for the secondquestion.
Remember that everyone's goingto be different.
It's going to be different,it's going to be a different
(14:08):
situation for everyone.
But I hope that was helpful.
And now the third and finalquestion I'll be answering today
is how to deal with a classclown, the one that says random
things to get you and classmatesto laugh.
First up, acknowledge the needbeneath the behavior, because
this kind of behavior is rarelyabout being disrespectful, and I
know that it can feel verydisrespectful and it can feel
frustrating, it can feel reallyannoying, but usually these
behaviors are about that studenttrying to belong, trying to
(14:32):
find significance, trying tofind connection and yeah, it is
often a connection bit, even ifit's chaotic and inconvenient
and all the things Kids who arethe class clown are often saying
please see me, please laughwith me, let me feel important
even for a second.
And if we jump straight topunishment or shame with these
students, we miss the need.
(14:54):
And when that need is not met,that behavior will usually
continue to ramp up.
And that does not mean we letit slide.
That just means we respond withunderstanding first rather than
anger, because if you don't dothat it'll make it harder.
So don't battle the clown.
Hold your boundary, but don'tturn it into a power struggle.
You don't need to out, funnythem or outsmart them.
(15:16):
You're not going to win, evenif you feel like you've won.
You've just kind of shamed astudent into silence and that in
the long run is going to cause,it's going to just make the
behaviors manifest in differentways, so it's not going to help
in the long run.
You don't need to snap.
If they snap, they'll feed offit, they'll have a bit of a
laugh and that'll make you morefrustrated.
We'll make things harder andharder.
(15:38):
But you do need to hold theline and you harder and harder,
but you do need to hold the lineand you do need to hold the
line calmly and clearly andconsistently.
The best thing to do is not togive it any airtime in the
lesson.
As much as humanly possible,just use your nonverbals as a
cue that it was not the righttime and then resume when the
class is quiet.
But sometimes you might need tosay something and, by the way,
(16:00):
when I'm talking about thenonverbals as a cue to kind of
resume, so just say if you're inthe middle of a discussion with
the class, if you're givingteacher-led instructions and
they're piping up, just simplypause.
Hold your nonverbals, hold yourcredibility and that will be a
very big nonverbal signal thatyou're not going to continue
your discussion until that kindof you know stuff quiets down.
But sometimes you might needand again, it's all to do with
(16:25):
the context, it's all to do withyour rapport If you've got a
really good rapport with thatstudent, you might need to say
something like saving the energyfor the playground, you know,
like something like that.
Or I'm parking that one, let'sgo back to the learning, or, you
know, keep that in your backpocket for later.
We'll talk about it when it'smore appropriate, or all right,
that's the last one, everyone,you know, attention back on me.
(16:45):
You know, attention back on me.
You know we've had our laugh.
Now it's learning mode, so youjust it's going to have to be
really responsive to the contextand what's happening in the
lesson.
I find that a non-verbal, likepause, will more than often do
the trick.
But if it's something that'scontinuing and I have got a good
relationship with that studentand a good relationship with the
(17:07):
class, and if I know that it'sgoing to help rather than hinder
me to get back to learning,I'll say something like that,
because you know it's it's awarm tone, but it's a firm tone
with a little bit of a playfullike I'm not mad but like let's
steer this ship back to thelearning kind of energy.
And it's not about lecturing,it's just like a little gentle
(17:34):
nudge back to what we were doing.
And it's just really importantto remember that we can't
humiliate them because shamewill fuel what's going on and
again it's just not going to endwell, like it's just going to
keep getting harder and harderfor you.
Another thing you can try withthe class clown energy is
actually kind of just lean intoit a little bit Like obviously
not in, not when it's beingdisruptive to the learning, but
kind of give them a bit of apro-social role.
So like you know, rightstrength but wrong context, like
(17:57):
it's okay to be funny and a bitsilly, but it's not the right
time right now.
So maybe they can have a bit ofa role in the class where they
read out the vocab words withlike silly voices or you know,
you can give them a classroomjob that involves movement or
attention or you know, likesomething like that.
Or ask them to help you withsomething that makes them feel
trusted or something that willkind of channel that energy into
(18:21):
something else, because you'renot rewarding the disruption,
you're just redirecting thatenergy somewhere.
You're not saying like you'retoo much, you're just putting
that energy somewhere else.
Because remember that underneaththat class clown is a kid who
of course wants to be seen andliked and included, and your
calm presence with a little bitof gentle redirection and just a
(18:41):
really big belief in theirgoodness.
And I say that because it'sreally hard sometimes to
remember when a student is beingreally disruptive and loud and
out there, like rememberingthey're good kids and they're
just trying to have a laugh andthey're meeting their needs in
the best way they can at themoment.
And they're teenagers, they'reimpulsive and like there's just
(19:03):
so much going on there with likeso much going on there with,
like the social roles andbelonging and power and all
those things that are going onwithin them and the way they're
trying to meet their needs.
So all of those things togethercan just be a game changer.
So a calm presence, a gentleredirection, a belief in their
goodness, you know, those thingscan just be such a game changer
(19:25):
when dealing with students whoare being a little bit
disruptive and, you know, tryingto be a bit of a class clown.
So that is all for the Q&A thisweek.
I hope that at least one ofthose things was helpful or
relevant to your situation or achallenge you're going through
at the moment, and I willdefinitely bring some more of
these episodes back.
If you have a question and youwould like me to answer it on
(19:45):
one of these episodes, feel freeto pop into my Instagram or my
inbox.
My Instagram is theunteachablesand my email address is claire
at the-unteachablescom.
Come and ask me a question andI would love to try to feature
it on one of these episodes.
I've got a fair few questionslined up, but I would love to
try to get as many as possible,because I do think that these
(20:05):
episodes and I'm like you knowbringing it into the classroom,
into real situations and showingyou how it approached, I think
that's really beneficial just toget it kind of, you know,
feeling more real worlds,because it can be really hard on
a podcast.
I'm not there with you sittingbeside you, mentoring you.
So, yeah, as much as we can dowith that, the better.
Okay, wonderful teachers, untilnext week I will see you then.
(20:28):
Take care.
Bye for now.
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