June 2, 2025 • 16 mins
This episode is in response to a great question: How do you support staff through mindset shifts?
Whether you’re leading a team or just quietly modelling a new way of doing things, this episode is for you.
IN THIS EPISODE, I DISCUSS:
- Why change feels so threatening – and what’s really underneath the resistance
- How to lead culture change without lecturing or pushing
- Why the most resistant staff are often just burnt out
- What actually helps shift mindsets: stories, modelling, and showing what’s possible
This work doesn’t start with policy. It starts with presence.
You don’t need to change everyone’s mind overnight. You just need to hold your ground, model what’s possible, and lead with calm consistency. That quiet modelling? That’s what creates the ripple effect.
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
RESOURCES AND MORE SUPPORT:
- Shop all resources
- Join The Behaviour Club
- My book! It’s Never Just About the Behaviour: A holistic approach to classroom behaviour management
- The Low-Level Behaviour Bootcamp
- Free guide: 'Chats that Create Change'
Connect with me:
- Follow on Instagram @the.unteachables
- Check out my website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh, hi there, teachers.
Welcome to the Unteachablespodcast.
I'm your host, Claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not dancers, we're
teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, fabulous teachers,Welcome back to another episode
of the Unteachables podcast.
I'm Claire English and I'm yourhost, and I'm just absolutely
thrilled that you've decided tospend a bit of time with me
today to talk about staffmindset shifts around behavior.
(01:05):
That is a doozy, and I've beenasked to do an episode on this
so many times more times than Ican count.
I get asked about this all ofthe time, so I thought it was
finally time to bite the bulletand talk about how to create
culture shifts in school aroundbehavior.
This is going to beparticularly beneficial for any
teachers or leaders who are incharge of facilitating change in
(01:29):
their schools around behaviorwho are trying their darndest to
kind of introduce models thatare less punitive.
It can be really hard.
Mindset shifts are really hard.
You can't force people tochange how they think or work
with kids, especially becausethat challenges everything that
they've been taught oreverything they've relied on.
You know these are shifts inhow we see behavior as a whole
(01:52):
and power and authority and therole that we have in our room
and the role of a teacher, andthese are the shifts that shake
up everything we thought we knewabout classroom management and
behavior.
You know that's hard and youcan't make people shift.
You know you can't force it andthat's why cultural changes in
schools are the toughest andlongest processes.
(02:14):
Also, I did say at the top ofthis episode that it was about,
you know, creating cultureshifts and all that kind of
stuff and it would be beneficialfor leaders.
But please just scrap thatbecause it's going to be great
for anybody, because there areso many teachers I support who
are doing incredible work intheir classrooms and really
trying to make changes and, youknow, really challenge the way
that things have been done orare being done.
(02:36):
And they always come to me andask about how to kind of
facilitate change and how tomake people kind of see the
benefits of the approach they'retaking and, like it is a bit of
an uphill battle for teachersas well when they're in schools,
that kind of conflict withthose values.
So this is definitely relevantfor you as well.
So I would like to start with astory from one of my behavior
(02:58):
clubbers.
She is a third year teacher andshe's been working with me for
quite some time now.
But when she startedimplementing the strategies that
I was teaching her and when shewas, you know, trying to
explain to people why she wastaking a certain approach with
students and you know all of thethings, that was kind of
against what was normalized atthe school she was at.
(03:20):
She was treated pretty poorly,Like she was looked down on.
She got the eye rolls like thewhole shebang right and she was.
It was quite sad to listen tothat and she was really trying
to work with some of the mostextreme behaviors and trying to
do it in a way that really wasaligned with her values and, you
know, like felt right for herand felt right for the students
(03:41):
that she was teaching and she isjust one of the most incredible
, compassionate, beautifulhumans I've ever met in my life.
She could have really doubtedherself, Like she was at the
time what first first yearteacher like going into a second
year of teaching when shestarted to work with me.
She's in a third year now butshe, a hundred percent, could
have gone okay.
Maybe I'm not like I probablywould have done that.
(04:01):
I probably would have gone okay.
Maybe it's not right the waythat I'm trying.
Maybe I am being weak, Maybe Iam being too soft, Maybe I am
going to get walked all over.
Like it took a lot for her tosay no, I am aligned with these
values.
This is the approach that Iwant to take.
I'm working with Claire Likethese are the strategies that
I'm using and I'm sticking withit.
(04:23):
And she did stick with it.
She stuck with her approachcalm, clear boundaries,
compassionate, talking to thekids, not at them.
She stuck with it.
And now the same staff thatrolled their eyes, the same
staff that thought her approachwas weak, are coming to her
asking what she's doing.
They are calling her magic.
They ask how she's gotten thesekids, who are so hard for them
(04:48):
in their classes, working sowell in hers, able to engage in
dialogue with her, able toconnect with her.
They are sending the trickykids to her to work with because
they think that she's magic.
They think she's got somethingdifferent about her.
Her senior leadership team nowuse her as a model for good
practice.
She's in her third freaking yearof teaching and she was laughed
(05:12):
at.
She was, you know, her staffrolling eyes at her because she
was taking a path that wasdifferent to what they were
taking and they doubted her andthey doubted her and they
doubted her and they thought shewas weak.
But now she is a model forexcellent practice in her school
in her third year of teaching.
And the thing is that she isn'tjust positively impacting the
(05:32):
students that she's working with, she is actually shaping the
culture inside of her schooljust by modeling.
She is a leader in the schooljust by modeling the practice
that she is implementing dayafter day after day.
And she says to me Claire, it'snot like I'm, you know, trying
to lead the staff.
It's not like I'm trying to doanything, I'm just trying to
(05:53):
implement.
I'm not like she says, I'm noteven that confident yet, but I
am just a little by littleimplementing the strategies that
you're teaching me.
And I'm like she says, I'm noteven that confident yet, but I
am just a little by littleimplementing the strategies that
you're teaching me and I'mseeing this magic happen and
people are recognizing it.
So she's leading behavior.
She is shaping the cultureinside of a school, not by
telling people, not by lecturingpeople, not by shaming people,
not by taking away the toolsteachers have been using.
She hasn't needed to do any ofthat.
(06:14):
She is doing it by modeling.
And that is the thing.
Leadership when it comes toclassroom management and
behavior isn't about being themost experienced.
It's not about having all theanswers.
It's just about showing peoplewhat's possible through your
practice.
When I was in my first year ofteaching, I was a very young
leader, Like I was leading ateam of 12 in a headteacher
(06:36):
capacity when I was in my secondyear of teaching and that
sounds ridiculous and it wasridiculous.
And now, looking back, I'm likeI had a lot to learn before I
was able to step into thatposition, but I did it.
I was I, you know, I did itscrappy, I did it very early and
I did it in the best way that Icould.
Obviously, I was very happy togo back into the classroom and
continue to hone my craft.
But the reason I got that jobwas because in my first year of
(06:59):
teaching I had this very toughyear seven class very, very,
very tough, and I was able totake that class that people
thought were hopeless, that theythought were the worst class in
the school, and I was able toturn that class around and they
became my favorite class ever,like to this day.
I think I've mentioned them onthe podcast before.
I will never have a class thatI love more than these children
(07:21):
and it's because I was soprotective of them.
Everyone thought they were justso crap and you know, now
they're in their mid twentiesand they've got babies of their
own and families and likethey're just so beautiful and so
precious.
But, um, you know they werereally looked down on this class
and when I went for this job asthe head teacher of teaching
(07:42):
and learning and learningsupport when I was in my second
year of teaching, I used them asa model for behavior change and
how I could impact children,and I did it through that model.
Like I didn't sit there and saylike I know this about behavior
, I know that about behavior andthis is the black and white
stuff that I'm doing.
I said this was the case study.
(08:03):
Like this is the class that Iturned around because I know the
power of connection, I know thepower of this, that and the
other.
So leading culture and shapingculture is so much more about
modeling and showing peoplewhat's possible.
People shift through feelingand they don't shift through
being told.
You can have the best research,you can have the best slides
for a professional developmentsession, but if it feels like a
(08:26):
judgment or an attack or andwhen I say attack I mean an
attack on the like system thatthey've been using, Like people
get very protective of theirbehavior management approach and
if something questions that, ifthey feel like they're being
judged for that, they're goingto completely clock off, Like
they're going to spike thatinformation out.
They need to see it working,they need to see it in action
(08:48):
and then maybe they'll getcurious about getting some
strategies of their own up theirsleeve to implement in the
classroom and that is the mostimportant step.
They've got to see it tobelieve it right.
The next thing I want to mentionis that it can be quite scary
for teachers to make changeswhen it comes to their behavior
approach, especially in schoolswhere it's been very black and
(09:10):
white and all consequences.
So you know a student does this, then a constant, you know a
certain consequence, so they geta detention or they get a call
home or they get kicked out.
Those tools don't work longterm.
We know that, like we've gotthe research to back up that
these punitive consequencesthey're not working for our
students, especially the onesthat they're designed to work
for.
But they do make teachers feellike they're in the driver's
(09:33):
seat and they're in control.
So when we take away those blackand white options and offer
more relational strategies, thatcan feel a little bit like gray
area, you know, because it isvery nuanced.
So I can't say to teachers,like someone asked me that in my
inbox like hey, Claire, haveyou ever thought about doing
like a flow chart for schoolswhere you say, like this baby
happens and then you can do it?
(09:53):
And I said no, I can't do that.
Like, maybe if I'm workingone-to-one with a school
specifically on like uphold,like overhauling their behavior
policy, then yes, I'd be able tomaybe offer something like that
, but as a you know, as aday-to-day thing, I can't
possibly like say this behaviorhappens and then this happens
after that, because all behavioris so unique and nuanced and it
(10:16):
really is up to us to start tolike respond to whatever's
happening, like read the roomand respond to what's happening
in front of us and respond tothat specific human in front of
us, because everyone's going tobe different.
Um, Anyway, so like it can feelvery threatening for teachers
for black and white options tobe taken away and then replaced
by things that are, you know, alittle bit more, a little bit
(10:38):
more nuanced and a little bitmore shades of gray.
You know you're not justchanging tools, they're not just
changing a toolbox for them.
You're messing with you knowhow safe they feel and their
identity and their sense of whatit means to be a teacher in the
classroom, and you know howthey are seeing their own
authority in the classroom.
So I have nothing but empathyfor that and we're not going to
(11:01):
make those teachers change theirapproaches by forcing it upon
them, necessarily.
I think that we need to beagain going back to the
modelling piece, modelling whatit looks like in practice, but
then replacing those tools withthings that are tangible and
actionable.
The biggest problem with theprofessional learning around
more relational or, you know,restorative or trauma-informed
(11:22):
practices is they're not reallygiving teachers tangible
strategies to try immediately inthe classroom, and that feels
very unsafe and that feels verydisempowering for teachers.
So validate their fears,validate the fact that punitive
punishments can be a bit ofsafety for teachers and make
(11:42):
sure that we're replacing thosestrategies, not just giving them
something wishy-washy, andreally making sure that we're
supporting them through thatprocess.
If we are trying to shiftculture in school, it needs to
be in a very supportive way andone that really validates the
experiences of all teachers,because I can definitely
empathize with how tough that is.
(12:03):
Also, I want to say that whenpeople feel like they're
drowning, when people feel burntout or when they feel, you know
, exhausted, we cling to what weknow when we're in survival
mode.
So I remember like I've got thestrategies now.
You know, I'm not going to beperfect I don't think anyone's
ever perfect at classroommanagement but I'm much better
now than I was, obviously Iwouldn't be doing this podcast
but that'd be a bit embarrassing.
But when I was still goingthrough a journey of kind of
(12:27):
changing my practice and Iunderstood how to do things in
the way that I'm currently doingthem, I had the buy-in, I had
the strategies, I had theknowledge I would still slip
back to using punitivestrategies when I was struggling
, when I felt like I wasdrowning, when I was exhausted.
So it's really important toalso know that these are the
things that are inheritedclassroom management.
(12:49):
We fall back on them, wecontinue the cycle.
It's just like in my parenting,like I'm trying so hard to be a,
you know, a great parent forAva, but sometimes like you
can't help but kind of fall backinto old patterns or fall back
into the cycle or fall back intothe things that are modeled to
you as a child and it can bereally hard to break those
(13:10):
patterns.
So holding space for that and,you know, recognizing that
that's going to happen as well.
So there's a lot, isn't it sohard?
That's why shifting culture inschools is flipping so difficult
.
So what do you do?
How do you support mindsetshifts?
You model, obviously, what Isaid before you're modeling good
(13:32):
practice.
If you're a leader and you'retrying to, you know, have big
culture shifts in schools, youneed to get in classrooms and
show them what's possible withthat.
You have to model it inclassrooms and that's going to
get far more buy-in.
Or get people on board to modelthat in classrooms when you're
talking about a differentapproach, instead of lecturing
and kind of telling, sharestories and share what's
(13:54):
possible.
The energy that you put outthere is like hey, I tried this
thing and it actually worked,Like want to give it a go, kind
of energy instead of we must bemoving away from this and this
is how we're doing it.
And you can't do that and I'mtaking away every single tool in
your toolbox.
And sometimes, depending on yourrole and depending on the way
you're trying to shift culture,it's that you say nothing and
(14:14):
just keep showing up withintegrity and showing what's
possible and having that becomea part of the culture and kind
of I used to get people on boardthat were really bought into
the process already and thenkind of working with them as,
like the strong team ofclassroom management support
people.
So yeah, it's a hard thing toshift culture, culture, but you
don't need to change everyone'smind all of a sudden like it's
(14:37):
not going to work that way andyou're gonna be, you know,
fighting a losing battle there.
It's just about showing peoplethat another way does exist and,
over time, quietly modeling.
That is what is going to createa massive ripple effect.
Um, so please remember all ofthose things.
It's such amazing work thatyou're doing.
If you're trying to createculture shifts around behavior
(14:58):
in school, you are doing anincredible job.
One final thing I am now basedin Sydney permanently and I
haven't been able to say thatI'm permanently based somewhere
for a very long time, so I amgoing to be opening up a very
small amount of spaces forconsultancy work in schools to
support with these kinds ofthings.
So, like you know, classroommanagement, culture shifts and
(15:21):
behavior policies and that kindof stuff.
So if you were looking forsomebody to come in and support
you and your staff, please letme know.
You can reach out on my email,claire at the dash on
teachablescom, and I can sendsome more information your way.
I also have special schoolpackages available for my full
course, the classroom managementlab, and schools in the past
have just been able to enrolllike a group of select staff.
(15:41):
Um, some have done their wholestaff team, but some most of
them have done like a smallselect group of staff to go
through the program and then belike kind of the behavior
experts in the school andsupport those culture shifts.
So that's an option.
But yeah, if you're a schooland you're wanting some support,
please just reach out on myemail and I'll be able to get
back to you and let you know howI can best support you, which
would be so awesome.
It'd be so good to be able tosupport you and your staff.
(16:03):
I'm going to leave it there andI look forward to seeing you
next week at the same time inthe same place.
Bye for now, wonderful teacher.
Oh, hi there, teachers.
Welcome to the Unteachablespodcast.
I'm your host, Claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not dancers, we're
teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, fabulous teachers,Welcome back to another episode
of the Unteachables podcast.
I'm Claire English and I'm yourhost, and I'm just absolutely
thrilled that you've decided tospend a bit of time with me
today to talk about staffmindset shifts around behavior.
(01:05):
That is a doozy, and I've beenasked to do an episode on this
so many times more times than Ican count.
I get asked about this all ofthe time, so I thought it was
finally time to bite the bulletand talk about how to create
culture shifts in school aroundbehavior.
This is going to beparticularly beneficial for any
teachers or leaders who are incharge of facilitating change in
(01:29):
their schools around behaviorwho are trying their darndest to
kind of introduce models thatare less punitive.
It can be really hard.
Mindset shifts are really hard.
You can't force people tochange how they think or work
with kids, especially becausethat challenges everything that
they've been taught oreverything they've relied on.
You know these are shifts inhow we see behavior as a whole
(01:52):
and power and authority and therole that we have in our room
and the role of a teacher, andthese are the shifts that shake
up everything we thought we knewabout classroom management and
behavior.
You know that's hard and youcan't make people shift.
You know you can't force it andthat's why cultural changes in
schools are the toughest andlongest processes.
(02:14):
Also, I did say at the top ofthis episode that it was about,
you know, creating cultureshifts and all that kind of
stuff and it would be beneficialfor leaders.
But please just scrap thatbecause it's going to be great
for anybody, because there areso many teachers I support who
are doing incredible work intheir classrooms and really
trying to make changes and, youknow, really challenge the way
that things have been done orare being done.
(02:36):
And they always come to me andask about how to kind of
facilitate change and how tomake people kind of see the
benefits of the approach they'retaking and, like it is a bit of
an uphill battle for teachersas well when they're in schools,
that kind of conflict withthose values.
So this is definitely relevantfor you as well.
So I would like to start with astory from one of my behavior
(02:58):
clubbers.
She is a third year teacher andshe's been working with me for
quite some time now.
But when she startedimplementing the strategies that
I was teaching her and when shewas, you know, trying to
explain to people why she wastaking a certain approach with
students and you know all of thethings, that was kind of
against what was normalized atthe school she was at.
(03:20):
She was treated pretty poorly,Like she was looked down on.
She got the eye rolls like thewhole shebang right and she was.
It was quite sad to listen tothat and she was really trying
to work with some of the mostextreme behaviors and trying to
do it in a way that really wasaligned with her values and, you
know, like felt right for herand felt right for the students
(03:41):
that she was teaching and she isjust one of the most incredible
, compassionate, beautifulhumans I've ever met in my life.
She could have really doubtedherself, Like she was at the
time what first first yearteacher like going into a second
year of teaching when shestarted to work with me.
She's in a third year now butshe, a hundred percent, could
have gone okay.
Maybe I'm not like I probablywould have done that.
(04:01):
I probably would have gone okay.
Maybe it's not right the waythat I'm trying.
Maybe I am being weak, Maybe Iam being too soft, Maybe I am
going to get walked all over.
Like it took a lot for her tosay no, I am aligned with these
values.
This is the approach that Iwant to take.
I'm working with Claire Likethese are the strategies that
I'm using and I'm sticking withit.
(04:23):
And she did stick with it.
She stuck with her approachcalm, clear boundaries,
compassionate, talking to thekids, not at them.
She stuck with it.
And now the same staff thatrolled their eyes, the same
staff that thought her approachwas weak, are coming to her
asking what she's doing.
They are calling her magic.
They ask how she's gotten thesekids, who are so hard for them
(04:48):
in their classes, working sowell in hers, able to engage in
dialogue with her, able toconnect with her.
They are sending the trickykids to her to work with because
they think that she's magic.
They think she's got somethingdifferent about her.
Her senior leadership team nowuse her as a model for good
practice.
She's in her third freaking yearof teaching and she was laughed
(05:12):
at.
She was, you know, her staffrolling eyes at her because she
was taking a path that wasdifferent to what they were
taking and they doubted her andthey doubted her and they
doubted her and they thought shewas weak.
But now she is a model forexcellent practice in her school
in her third year of teaching.
And the thing is that she isn'tjust positively impacting the
(05:32):
students that she's working with, she is actually shaping the
culture inside of her schooljust by modeling.
She is a leader in the schooljust by modeling the practice
that she is implementing dayafter day after day.
And she says to me Claire, it'snot like I'm, you know, trying
to lead the staff.
It's not like I'm trying to doanything, I'm just trying to
(05:53):
implement.
I'm not like she says, I'm noteven that confident yet, but I
am just a little by littleimplementing the strategies that
you're teaching me.
And I'm like she says, I'm noteven that confident yet, but I
am just a little by littleimplementing the strategies that
you're teaching me and I'mseeing this magic happen and
people are recognizing it.
So she's leading behavior.
She is shaping the cultureinside of a school, not by
telling people, not by lecturingpeople, not by shaming people,
not by taking away the toolsteachers have been using.
She hasn't needed to do any ofthat.
(06:14):
She is doing it by modeling.
And that is the thing.
Leadership when it comes toclassroom management and
behavior isn't about being themost experienced.
It's not about having all theanswers.
It's just about showing peoplewhat's possible through your
practice.
When I was in my first year ofteaching, I was a very young
leader, Like I was leading ateam of 12 in a headteacher
(06:36):
capacity when I was in my secondyear of teaching and that
sounds ridiculous and it wasridiculous.
And now, looking back, I'm likeI had a lot to learn before I
was able to step into thatposition, but I did it.
I was I, you know, I did itscrappy, I did it very early and
I did it in the best way that Icould.
Obviously, I was very happy togo back into the classroom and
continue to hone my craft.
But the reason I got that jobwas because in my first year of
(06:59):
teaching I had this very toughyear seven class very, very,
very tough, and I was able totake that class that people
thought were hopeless, that theythought were the worst class in
the school, and I was able toturn that class around and they
became my favorite class ever,like to this day.
I think I've mentioned them onthe podcast before.
I will never have a class thatI love more than these children
(07:21):
and it's because I was soprotective of them.
Everyone thought they were justso crap and you know, now
they're in their mid twentiesand they've got babies of their
own and families and likethey're just so beautiful and so
precious.
But, um, you know they werereally looked down on this class
and when I went for this job asthe head teacher of teaching
(07:42):
and learning and learningsupport when I was in my second
year of teaching, I used them asa model for behavior change and
how I could impact children,and I did it through that model.
Like I didn't sit there and saylike I know this about behavior
, I know that about behavior andthis is the black and white
stuff that I'm doing.
I said this was the case study.
(08:03):
Like this is the class that Iturned around because I know the
power of connection, I know thepower of this, that and the
other.
So leading culture and shapingculture is so much more about
modeling and showing peoplewhat's possible.
People shift through feelingand they don't shift through
being told.
You can have the best research,you can have the best slides
for a professional developmentsession, but if it feels like a
(08:26):
judgment or an attack or andwhen I say attack I mean an
attack on the like system thatthey've been using, Like people
get very protective of theirbehavior management approach and
if something questions that, ifthey feel like they're being
judged for that, they're goingto completely clock off, Like
they're going to spike thatinformation out.
They need to see it working,they need to see it in action
(08:48):
and then maybe they'll getcurious about getting some
strategies of their own up theirsleeve to implement in the
classroom and that is the mostimportant step.
They've got to see it tobelieve it right.
The next thing I want to mentionis that it can be quite scary
for teachers to make changeswhen it comes to their behavior
approach, especially in schoolswhere it's been very black and
(09:10):
white and all consequences.
So you know a student does this, then a constant, you know a
certain consequence, so they geta detention or they get a call
home or they get kicked out.
Those tools don't work longterm.
We know that, like we've gotthe research to back up that
these punitive consequencesthey're not working for our
students, especially the onesthat they're designed to work
for.
But they do make teachers feellike they're in the driver's
(09:33):
seat and they're in control.
So when we take away those blackand white options and offer
more relational strategies, thatcan feel a little bit like gray
area, you know, because it isvery nuanced.
So I can't say to teachers,like someone asked me that in my
inbox like hey, Claire, haveyou ever thought about doing
like a flow chart for schoolswhere you say, like this baby
happens and then you can do it?
(09:53):
And I said no, I can't do that.
Like, maybe if I'm workingone-to-one with a school
specifically on like uphold,like overhauling their behavior
policy, then yes, I'd be able tomaybe offer something like that
, but as a you know, as aday-to-day thing, I can't
possibly like say this behaviorhappens and then this happens
after that, because all behavioris so unique and nuanced and it
(10:16):
really is up to us to start tolike respond to whatever's
happening, like read the roomand respond to what's happening
in front of us and respond tothat specific human in front of
us, because everyone's going tobe different.
Um, Anyway, so like it can feelvery threatening for teachers
for black and white options tobe taken away and then replaced
by things that are, you know, alittle bit more, a little bit
(10:38):
more nuanced and a little bitmore shades of gray.
You know you're not justchanging tools, they're not just
changing a toolbox for them.
You're messing with you knowhow safe they feel and their
identity and their sense of whatit means to be a teacher in the
classroom, and you know howthey are seeing their own
authority in the classroom.
So I have nothing but empathyfor that and we're not going to
(11:01):
make those teachers change theirapproaches by forcing it upon
them, necessarily.
I think that we need to beagain going back to the
modelling piece, modelling whatit looks like in practice, but
then replacing those tools withthings that are tangible and
actionable.
The biggest problem with theprofessional learning around
more relational or, you know,restorative or trauma-informed
(11:22):
practices is they're not reallygiving teachers tangible
strategies to try immediately inthe classroom, and that feels
very unsafe and that feels verydisempowering for teachers.
So validate their fears,validate the fact that punitive
punishments can be a bit ofsafety for teachers and make
(11:42):
sure that we're replacing thosestrategies, not just giving them
something wishy-washy, andreally making sure that we're
supporting them through thatprocess.
If we are trying to shiftculture in school, it needs to
be in a very supportive way andone that really validates the
experiences of all teachers,because I can definitely
empathize with how tough that is.
(12:03):
Also, I want to say that whenpeople feel like they're
drowning, when people feel burntout or when they feel, you know
, exhausted, we cling to what weknow when we're in survival
mode.
So I remember like I've got thestrategies now.
You know, I'm not going to beperfect I don't think anyone's
ever perfect at classroommanagement but I'm much better
now than I was, obviously Iwouldn't be doing this podcast
but that'd be a bit embarrassing.
But when I was still goingthrough a journey of kind of
(12:27):
changing my practice and Iunderstood how to do things in
the way that I'm currently doingthem, I had the buy-in, I had
the strategies, I had theknowledge I would still slip
back to using punitivestrategies when I was struggling
, when I felt like I wasdrowning, when I was exhausted.
So it's really important toalso know that these are the
things that are inheritedclassroom management.
(12:49):
We fall back on them, wecontinue the cycle.
It's just like in my parenting,like I'm trying so hard to be a,
you know, a great parent forAva, but sometimes like you
can't help but kind of fall backinto old patterns or fall back
into the cycle or fall back intothe things that are modeled to
you as a child and it can bereally hard to break those
(13:10):
patterns.
So holding space for that and,you know, recognizing that
that's going to happen as well.
So there's a lot, isn't it sohard?
That's why shifting culture inschools is flipping so difficult
.
So what do you do?
How do you support mindsetshifts?
You model, obviously, what Isaid before you're modeling good
(13:32):
practice.
If you're a leader and you'retrying to, you know, have big
culture shifts in schools, youneed to get in classrooms and
show them what's possible withthat.
You have to model it inclassrooms and that's going to
get far more buy-in.
Or get people on board to modelthat in classrooms when you're
talking about a differentapproach, instead of lecturing
and kind of telling, sharestories and share what's
(13:54):
possible.
The energy that you put outthere is like hey, I tried this
thing and it actually worked,Like want to give it a go, kind
of energy instead of we must bemoving away from this and this
is how we're doing it.
And you can't do that and I'mtaking away every single tool in
your toolbox.
And sometimes, depending on yourrole and depending on the way
you're trying to shift culture,it's that you say nothing and
(14:14):
just keep showing up withintegrity and showing what's
possible and having that becomea part of the culture and kind
of I used to get people on boardthat were really bought into
the process already and thenkind of working with them as,
like the strong team ofclassroom management support
people.
So yeah, it's a hard thing toshift culture, culture, but you
don't need to change everyone'smind all of a sudden like it's
(14:37):
not going to work that way andyou're gonna be, you know,
fighting a losing battle there.
It's just about showing peoplethat another way does exist and,
over time, quietly modeling.
That is what is going to createa massive ripple effect.
Um, so please remember all ofthose things.
It's such amazing work thatyou're doing.
If you're trying to createculture shifts around behavior
(14:58):
in school, you are doing anincredible job.
One final thing I am now basedin Sydney permanently and I
haven't been able to say thatI'm permanently based somewhere
for a very long time, so I amgoing to be opening up a very
small amount of spaces forconsultancy work in schools to
support with these kinds ofthings.
So, like you know, classroommanagement, culture shifts and
(15:21):
behavior policies and that kindof stuff.
So if you were looking forsomebody to come in and support
you and your staff, please letme know.
You can reach out on my email,claire at the dash on
teachablescom, and I can sendsome more information your way.
I also have special schoolpackages available for my full
course, the classroom managementlab, and schools in the past
have just been able to enrolllike a group of select staff.
(15:41):
Um, some have done their wholestaff team, but some most of
them have done like a smallselect group of staff to go
through the program and then belike kind of the behavior
experts in the school andsupport those culture shifts.
So that's an option.
But yeah, if you're a schooland you're wanting some support,
please just reach out on myemail and I'll be able to get
back to you and let you know howI can best support you, which
would be so awesome.
It'd be so good to be able tosupport you and your staff.
(16:03):
I'm going to leave it there andI look forward to seeing you
next week at the same time inthe same place.
Bye for now, wonderful teacher.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.