TW: Mention of self-harm and suicide
Ever left school feeling completely wrung out, wondering if you’re even cut out for this job?
Same. And in this episode, I’m opening the curtain on one of the most raw, real reflections I’ve ever shared—because I know I’m not the only one who’s felt that way.
This one’s a mix of real talk, sobering stats, and a whole lotta love for you and the incredible, emotional, life-changing work you do every single day.
I’m giving you a front seat to the moment I sat in a seminar sobbing into my notebook, while simultaneously remembering why I started The Unteachables in the first place. The mental health stats? They’re scary. But they also confirmed something I’ve always known in my bones:
Teaching is the hardest job in the world.
And it’s also the most important.
I’m also finally sharing something I’ve never opened up about publicly before: the burnout, the breakdown, the toxic school environment that almost broke me, and why I had to take stress leave even when I felt too guilty to go.
But more importantly, I’m walking you through WHY this matters for you and how the “tiny” choices you make—moment to moment—can literally change a student’s brain.
Let’s roll the tape.
What you'll hear:
- The statistics that will stop you in your tracks—and how it impacts every classroom
- Why 47% of Aussie teachers consider quitting within their first year (spoiler: it’s not just the workload)
- The one thing I said to my Year 10s before taking mental health leave—and why it mattered
- What emotional literacy and co-regulation actually look like in a regular, chaotic school day
- How tiny moments of connection can shift brain chemistry (yes, literally)
- Why your role is even more powerful than you think—and how to honour it without burning out
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
👉 JOIN THE $1 KICKSTART! Click for more info and to jump in!
RESOURCES AND MORE SUPPORT:
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Connect with me:
- Follow on Instagram @the.unteachables
- Check out my website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Claire English (00:01):
Oh, hi there, teachers.
Welcome to the Unteachablespodcast.
I'm your host, Claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, fabulous teacher.
Welcome back to theUnteachables podcast.
It is a joy to have you backhere with me or, if you're
listening for the first time,welcome.
It's lovely to have you hereand I hope that you stick around
.
So I'm just going to crackstraight into it, because I'm
(01:06):
getting another chest infection.
Last week I went to theResilience Project Teacher
Seminar and anybody who knows,if you're an avid podcast
listener like me, you might knowthe Imperfects podcast and the
host on there, hugh.
He has another um, another kindof project called the
resilience project and it's likea kind of wellbeing curriculum
(01:29):
for for schools and students.
So they, in the seminar theywere taking us through, um, you
know things about student mentalhealth and teacher wellbeing
and you know, going throughthose pillars of their
curriculum which are gratitude,empathy and mindfulness and then
emotional literacy, and this islike the power of connection,
the power we have to kind ofwork with these young people and
change lives.
(01:50):
Really, and it sounds likequite cheesy.
I'm always really conscious ofsaying things like, oh, we're
changing lives, but obviously Ido this work, like I work here
doing classroom management stuff.
I am called the Unteachablesfor a reason.
It's because I am all about youbeing able to go in and support
(02:12):
every single student, even theones that are deemed unteachable
, in the best way that youpossibly can be, the most
empowered way that you can bethe most equipped, all of those
things Anyway.
So it does sound cheesy Like wehave the power to change the
lives of these young people.
But this seminar that I went toright, it just realigned me with
(02:33):
why the hell I sit here and dothis every single day.
It was so I feel like I wasmeant to go to this conference.
I felt so energized leaving.
I mean I was sobbing for a lotof the seminar, just like the
narratives they told and thestatistics and just the things
that they were talking about.
(02:54):
It was just yeah, it was reallymoving Anyway.
So I left feeling moreenergized than ever with this
work and feeling like my God,that is why I started the
Unteachables.
That is why I need to continuedoing what I'm doing and not in
like a oh, look at how great Iam way.
Not at all.
It's just like this work,freaking matters and work with
(03:15):
you as a teacher sitting therelike in a classroom who doesn't
have the bloody support to beable to support the students who
have the most complex behaviors.
So, anyway, I left feelingreally energized about this work
and I wanted to take youthrough some of the things today
that I heard in the seminarthat made me it was quite
sobering around, like what thestate of you know mental health
(03:38):
is in schools and in the worldin general.
So I want to take you through acouple of those things that made
me step back and go oof, likehealth is in schools and in the
world in general.
So I want to take you through acouple of those things that
made me step back and go oof,like this is why we have the
most important job in the worldand this is why I need to
continue doing the work that I'mdoing, and this is why it's so
important to be able to, like,put those things in the
foreground of connection andcompassion and, you know, trying
(04:01):
to remain regulated and all ofthose things.
So I will just crack into it,because I'll probably waffle on
for ages otherwise, because itis off the cuff this episode.
But I have written a couple ofthese stats down.
So the first thing that theywent through, like Hugh did this
incredible first openingpresentation and it was kind of
about the general mental healthin our society and in our
(04:22):
schools and the just the waylike the power of it was really
about the general mental healthin our society and in our
schools and the just the waylike the power of it was really
about the power of gratitude andall of those things.
And oh my God, hugh, if you'relistening, you're not listening
to my podcast, but if you were,oh my gosh, I already told you
in person but, yeah, it wasreally moving, but anyway.
So the World Health Organizationpredicts that by 2030, the
(04:46):
leading disease in the worldwill be depression.
Like, the leading disease outof every single disease is going
to be depression, and theleading cause of death by 2030
is predicted to be suicide.
And, as I was saying in theconference, the predictions from
the World Health Organizationare quite scarily on point.
(05:08):
But what the hell do we do withthat information?
Because it is like it's quiteobviously, it's sobering to hear
.
Well, most children do attendschool and we really have more
time with our students than theydo at home with their families.
And we're in this really uniquesituation as teachers, where we
have so many touch points withthem and so many opportunities
(05:31):
to make choices that connect, toheal, to model emotional
regulation, to model emotionalliteracy, to model vulnerability
, to model being open with ourfeelings and processing them and
seeking support.
We're just in this reallyunique, beautiful position for
us to be able to touch the livesof so many young people.
(05:51):
And I'm not saying that we have, like you know, we don't have
any superpowers.
We're not going to be, like youknow, going out there changing
the world but like by changingthe narrative for one student,
by providing one student withthe skills to be able to go out
there and ask for help or tohave the language to name how
(06:12):
they're feeling, like thatactually can change the world of
that person.
And if we're just doing that inlittle micro ways as teachers
every single day, like that isthis huge shift in society that
we can create.
What I'm not saying is that ofcourse, there's like wellbeing
curriculums and there's reallyexplicit things that we can do
(06:33):
around that stuff.
But what I do hear a lot is youknow, we're just teachers,
we're not psychologists, we'renot.
You know, we have to getthrough our curriculum and I'm
an English teacher, I'm not aSEL teacher.
I hear you, I freaking get it.
But that does not mean thatwhen we're standing in front of
a student and they're having areally difficult time, that
(06:54):
instead of choosing to go down apath that is more disconnecting
, we can then choose a paththat's more connecting, more
calm.
We're going to co-regulate withthem and every single time we
make that choice, we arechanging the brain chemistry of
that student.
We're changing the way thatwe're connecting with that
student where, like throughneuroplasticity, we're actually
helping them to create neuralpathways that help them to then
(07:17):
be able to regulate and thinkabout when they have kids and
then, instead of you know,continuing a cycle where they're
not being emotionally availableor open or you know all of
those things, they're then ableto recognize their emotions, be
able to co-regulate with theirchildren.
All of those things and I knowthis is a big ramble, but like
it's just in those micro moments.
(07:37):
It doesn't mean, of course,like I do do things where we're
doing explicit teaching ofemotions, explicit teaching of
regulation skills.
You know, I've got lessons,I've got all of those things
that I do encourage people touse as a proactive classroom
management tool, and we do thatthrough, obviously, like
supporting our students, however, and empowering them with like
knowledge around their brains.
(07:58):
However, it doesn't have to bein those really big, explicit
ways.
It can just be through, yeah,making the choices to connect
rather than disconnect.
It can be as simple as that andbeing able to model regulation
and being able to model like,hey, I'm feeling like crap today
, like, um, you know how am Igoing to work through this?
I'm going to take a couple ofdeep breaths, like let's all do
(08:19):
one minute in the morning ofdeep breathing instead of, you
know, going down a pathway whereI feel really dysregulated,
going into my lesson.
Anyway, another couple ofstatistics.
These are student mental healthstatistics like so specifically
that and this is from theResilient Youth State of the
Nation Report 2024.
So this is specifically aboutAustralia, but obviously, like
(08:43):
you know, things are veryrelevant worldwide.
So one in four primary studentsexperience high levels of
depression or anxiety.
So 25% of all primary schoolstudents experience high levels
of depression or anxiety.
So 25% of all primary schoolstudents experience high levels
of depression or anxiety.
That is stark.
Like these are young childrenalready coming to school feeling
like that and, as a result, 18%of primary students are turning
(09:06):
up to school ready to learn,like they're there with their
books, they're sitting at theirdesk and they are feeling
regulated and ready to learn.
Now let's talk about secondarystudents, because things just
keep going downhill.
Because one in three secondarystudents experience high levels
of depression or anxiety.
One in three.
That is a huge number.
Like if you've got 30 studentsin your class, 10 of them are
(09:30):
experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety and 16% of
secondary students are turningup ready to learn.
So if you've got a class of 30,I'm not going to do the math.
If anyone wants to do the mathfor me and get back to me.
16%.
So if you've got a class of 30,you might have five-ish of
(09:51):
secondary students who areturning up ready to learn.
I'm sorry for my horrible maths, but it is really scary.
And this tells me three thingsright.
The first thing is thatteaching is the hardest job in
the world because those statsmen, we are up against it.
If we have only got 16% of ourstudents turning up to class
ready to learn, that is just sosobering for the job that we
(10:13):
need to do.
And no wonder 47% of Australianteachers considered leaving the
profession within 12 months.
One year we go to universityteacher prep training.
Whatever you do around theworld, we go there for years.
Imagine turning up into a class.
You don't need to imaginebecause you're doing it like
going into a classroom and going.
(10:34):
I actually don't think this isfor me Like it's too hard.
47% half of Australian teachersconsidering leaving within 12
months.
And I know that that statisticis relevant for a lot of you out
there who are working in othercountries as well, because I've
worked in the UK.
Man, it's the same thing.
(10:56):
I've seen statistics from theUS.
It is the same thing, anyway.
So that's the first thing,right, teaching is the hardest
job in the world.
No wonder we're thinking aboutleaving.
The second thing is that thework that we do here at the
Unteachables is so importantbecause this isn't an additional
thing, this isn't just one morething.
As I said before, these arechoices that we make in the
everyday to connect.
So when people say it's not ourjob to worry about social,
emotional learning, that it'snot our job to teach them about
(11:19):
their feelings because, you know, I'm a blooming maths teacher
it is our job, because we have aresponsibility every single
time we are in a position wherewe're face toto-face, not just
with a student, but with anotherhuman being.
In the state of our currentworld, to choose kindness and
compassion over, you know, beingcritical or shaming or
disconnecting, I feel like wereally do have a responsibility
(11:43):
in our world to be the most kindversion of ourselves, because
that is life-changing forsomebody.
We just don't know whatsomebody else is going through.
We don't know who those 16% ofstudents are in our class that
are ready to learn and who theother.
Oh my gosh, 84%.
I hope that is the right, likeminusing number.
I really hope that's the case.
(12:04):
Anyway, you know, it's soimportant because we don't know
what people are going through.
So that is why this job isimportant.
And not only is teaching thehardest job in the world, like I
said first, but the third thingis it shows us that teaching is
the most important job in theworld because, yes, we have a
responsibility every time we'rein a position, when we're face
(12:25):
to face with another human being, to be the kindest version of
ourselves.
You know, just so we can try toshift this and try to.
I don't know.
You know, like I hope that thisis resonating with anybody out
there, but it makes it the mostimportant job in the world
because we're doing that on amass scale with the most
vulnerable people in our societywho maybe don't have access to
(12:49):
an adult role model who is ableto co-regulate with them because
of whatever they've gonethrough, who maybe isn't able to
show compassion for whatthey're going through because
they're stuck in crisis mode.
You know, and it makes it themost important job in the world
for that reason, just showingcompassion and kindness and you
know all of those things to ourstudents is just so crucial and
(13:10):
we can weave that into theeveryday.
It does not mean that we haveto be soft and, you know, not
have boundaries, because thosethings boundaries are kindness
and expectations are kindness,and that consistency is so
important.
If you listen to any otherepisodes of my podcast, you will
know how much of an advocate Iam for those things.
But yeah, I think you see whereI'm going with that.
(13:36):
Let's talk about teacher mentalhealth statistics now.
So 47% of Australian teachersconsidered leaving within 12
months.
So you already knew thatstatistic.
I said it before 52% ofteachers experience serious
depressive symptoms incomparison.
So you might think, but that'sadults.
That's the world that we'reliving in.
This statistic shows you thatthat is not the case.
So when people say, oh,teachers think they've got it
(13:58):
hard, but no, like this is isreally genuinely a problem with
teaching and something that weneed to address, because 52% of
teachers experience seriousdepressive symptoms in
comparison with 12% of thegeneral population, and 46% of
teachers experience seriousanxiety symptoms in comparison
(14:20):
with 9% of the generalpopulation.
That is scary and it is aproblem in the profession that
we need to be addressing and notthrough hey, let's pop a couple
of cupcakes in the staff roomand people will be happy.
There are serious issues andwhen you look at the student
mental health statistics, it isno wonder that teacher mental
(14:42):
health statistics are so badbecause of compassion, fatigue
and, you know, secondary trauma.
And we are constantly having toabsorb that one in four primary
students that's coming in withhigh levels of depression or
anxiety, or that one in threesecondary student who's
experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety.
They're coming into ourclassrooms and we are having to
(15:02):
absorb that every single day,that 10 out of 30 students who
are experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety.
We are constantly trying toco-regulate with them, we are
constantly trying to supportthem in whatever way that we can
.
Those students are going to bedemonstrating behaviors that are
a manifestation of thatdepression or that anxiety,
(15:23):
whether it is through you knowthem withdrawing or with them
having explosive fight or flightbehaviors.
We just we're constantly on thereceiving end of that and no
wonder if we are experiencingthat on mass.
No wonder 52% of us areexperiencing serious depressive
symptoms or 46% of us areexperiencing serious anxiety
(15:46):
symptoms.
And I have been there and Icompletely understand it.
So I'm not just sitting here ona pedestal working for the
unteachables going, hey, likeguys, like it's a really hard at
the moment, uh, in my foot andI don't think I've ever.
I think I've told you on thepodcast before that I
experienced burnout.
I have left schools beforebecause of certain reasons, but
in my first school that I endedup leaving, it was so toxic.
(16:10):
Things got so bad that I wassigned off to go on distress
leave because I was on the brink.
I was not okay, I was soanxious, I was so sick.
I remember sitting in my carevery and it was just a toxic
school environment.
So that school was in a lowsocioeconomic area of Sydney.
So those statistics like youknow, one in a low socioeconomic
(16:31):
area of Sydney.
So those statistics like youknow, one in three students
experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety.
I would not be surprised if itwas more like two in three
because of the context of theschool.
So I felt like I was constantlyabsorbing this stuff.
But on top of that, when you'reworking at a school where you're
, you know, trying to supportstudents that are the most
(16:53):
vulnerable or in deprivedenvironments, all those kinds of
things when you're trying to dothat.
But then you're also dealingwith a school that does feel
very toxic and I don't want tosay too much about that.
But when you're, you get itright.
If you get it, you get it.
But if you're also dealing withthat on top of it and the
(17:14):
environment isn't conducive to alot of support and it's
actually adding to the problems,then that is just this perfect
storm of what I was then havingto carry home with me every
single day.
But it was like also thecontext of what I was going
through.
But, um, you know, I I had togo on distress leave because I I
could not function.
I was in the car and I wouldhave an anxiety attack.
(17:37):
Going into the, I would see thegates and I would feel so sick.
I'd get home and I would not beable to connect.
Like I just went numb.
And I do think that I, lookingback now, I do think I had
compassion fatigue, but I thinkI was also experiencing a lot of
secondary trauma.
Anyway, at the time as well, Ialso found out that I so I had a
(17:57):
pap smear get your pap smears.
Like please, please, go getyour pap smears.
And I had done a pap smearabout six months earlier and
that pap smear.
So I got a call and the doctorhad said that that pap smear had
been lost, like the results hadbeen lost.
So I got a call and the doctorhad said that that pap smear had
been lost, like the results hadbeen lost.
And I got this frantic callfrom the doctors saying that you
(18:18):
need to leave work and come innow and talk to us about your
results.
And when I went to the doctorsthey're like hey, look, we're
really sorry, but we the papsmear did six months.
You know, you just think thatit's okay, like you just think,
if you don't hear back aboutyour results, that it's all good
.
But they're like hey, you knowthat, that you know that little
test you did six months ago tomake sure you didn't have
(18:39):
cervical cancer.
Well, I'm actually sorry, butit was bad and you have a lot of
what they call transformationzones.
They didn't know that at thetime, but they said I had a lot
of irregular cells in the papsmear.
So I then had to go and getbiopsies done and they found
like the whole cervix was atransformation zone.
(19:01):
So I had, and that just meansthat um, like, there's huge,
huge patches of abnormal cellsanyway.
So that was just.
It was horrific.
So dealing with that, having,like they just said, like it's
pre-cancer and I had to get thatdealt with and obviously
everything's fine um, but pleasego and get your pap smears if
you need to my partner at thetime was also very
(19:23):
psychologically abusive.
Um, I was in a situation where,like I mean, my upbringing was
quite difficult.
Um, I had a lot of situationsgoing on there, but then I went
into this relationship that wasvery psychologically abusive and
, on top of, like, dealing withthe stuff at school and dealing
with, you know, all of that kindof health stuff, I had a
(19:45):
partner who would kick me outevery week, every weekend,
because he wanted to go and hangout with his friends.
I was living with him and hewould just say nah, and start a
fight and and I would be out onmy bum trying to couch surf
around.
So that was not very healthy,obviously, and I was also still
trying to heal from all of thethings that had happened in my
(20:05):
childhood and adolescence, um,with my mom's um severe OCD and
if anyone has um had to care fora parent who has significant
mental health issues.
I am just sending so much loveto you because it is yeah, it's,
it's really hard and it'ssomething that still impacts me
today.
(20:26):
Anyway, so the point is thateverything happened at once and
I was so reluctant to go onstress leave because, as I said
before, my students had alsoexperienced high levels of
depression or anxiety.
They were struggling and I feltlike I had a responsibility.
But I had to go and talk tothat class about this and one of
(20:47):
the classes I was very close to, my year 10 class and that was
a class where a lot of them werestruggling with their own
mental health and I was veryaware of that because they used
to come to me and talk to meabout that all of the time and I
didn't want to pretend that itwas like you know, I didn't want
to just say to them like hey,I'm just, I'm just going off on
leave because I'm on holiday, oryou know, I felt like it was my
(21:08):
responsibility at the time tonormalize it rather than pretend
that it wasn't happening.
So I told them and you know, Ijust said I'm taking some time
away for a little bit because mymental health.
I'm going to be very honestwith all of you, it's not good
and I explained that I needed tobe okay, to come back and then
work with them in the best waythat I could.
And I explained you know whereI was sitting on the mental
(21:30):
health continuum to them, orwhatever it's called.
You know, like if we're in azero to 10, like where I was,
and I was saying like rightright now I'm here and you know
when we go down there, like it'sreally important to seek help.
And I went and sought help andthere's no shame in doing so,
and I told them like that, justas if it was somebody who had a
flu and needed time to getbetter and to feed their body
(21:52):
nutrients and to stay hydratedand to pull the cover up over
their damn heads and get better.
I just felt like I needed to dothe same when it came to my
mental health.
And that's how I kind ofexplained it to them and I told
them I didn't want to leave themand I told them that I wanted
to be back, but it wasn't theimportant thing that you know I
was going to do that so then Icould be back, and now some of
(22:14):
you are probably out therethinking that's pretty heavy for
year 10 students to hear.
Some of these year 10 studentswere dealing with the most
horrific things imaginabledomestic violence, sexual
assault, severe depression.
Some were self-harming, somewere going home not knowing if
they were going to be able toeat and some just felt so
hopeless with their lives and,of course, in my head I thought
I needed to stay there for them.
But I was just going numb fromit, like I was absorbing that
(22:36):
day after day and I felt likethe best thing that I could do
in that situation was modelmodel taking care of myself, but
also model how normal it is tonot be okay and to model going
and seeking help, because I wasa role model for them.
I was an adult, I was a verystable adult in their lives and
I felt like it was myresponsibility to um to let them
(22:59):
know that I wasn't okay and thesteps that I could take to be
able to take care of myself, um,anyway.
So, yeah, all of those thingsmeant that I wasn't showing up
for them in the way that Iwanted to, anyway, like just
secondary trauma, the compassionfatigue.
Anyway, that was a lot.
That's the first time I've everspoken about anything like that
on the podcast.
So please be kind, um, I hopethat you know.
(23:22):
You understand, um, where I'mcoming from with that.
But yes, it is so important,right, you're doing such
important work.
But those stats, they're scaryand show just how important it
is to take care of yourself, andI don't mean in a it's your
responsibility alone kind of way.
I mean, like you know, youreally need to take care of
(23:45):
yourself, and I know thatthere's so many barriers to
doing that as teachers.
But just like I did, like Ineeded to step away for a minute
, you know, and I came back somuch stronger and I feel so,
like empowered by the work thatI am doing, because I know how
important it is.
But I couldn't have done that,I couldn't have come back, if I
(24:07):
didn't address what was going onfor me.
So, yeah, please, if you'restruggling, please get help.
Please acknowledge the earlywarning signs of compassion,
fatigue or of secondary trauma.
Go and speak to someone.
At the seminar yesterday we didthis reflection activity and it
was like, when you're stressed,how do you know and how do other
people know, and how can otherpeople help you?
And I was like, oh crap, I feellike I'm on edge a lot, but
(24:31):
just being able to acknowledgethat and being able to put
things in place or talk topeople about like hey, when you
notice that I'm acting like this, like that's what's going on,
I've had a really hard day atschool.
Or what I used to always say tomy husband was I just need five
minutes after school to go intothe bedroom and not speak to
you Like I know you want to talkto me about my day, I know that
(25:01):
you want to connect with me andthat's great, but I actually
just need five minutes todecompress before I say anything
to you.
Anyway, that's it for thisepisode.
I know that was a long one andit was a heavy one, but that
seminar just it reallyhighlighted how important the
work we're doing is and also itmade me feel like it was so
important to share our stories,because the one thing that
presenters did so well at thisseminar was share their stories
(25:21):
like in a real and meaningfuland raw and vulnerable way, and
that is how we connect withother human beings.
And I'm not saying go out thereand talk to your kids about
mental health in a way.
That's like, you know, liketrauma, bombing them, like
that's not what we're doing here, and it was a very specific
situation that I spoke to myattends about and I did it in a
very careful way.
Um, that's not what I'm saying,but I'm saying modeling,
(25:44):
self-care, modeling, connection,modeling how we can take care
of ourselves, and you know allof the things.
But, um, just think, what isone thing I can do right now to
take care of myself and what'sone thing I can choose to do in
this moment to connect.
Like that's it.
You don't have to do a wellbeingcourse, like you don't have to
do a bunch of like convolutedthings, like hey, like what's
(26:07):
one thing right now that I cando to take care of myself and
what's one thing I can choose todo in this moment with my
students to connect rather thandisconnect.
Do in this moment with mystudents to connect rather than
disconnect.
And I'm going to leave it therebefore I keep on rambling, but
I am sending so much love to allof you and until next time,
take care.
Also, reach out.
If you related to any of this,please reach out and let me know
(26:27):
.
But, yeah, big love, bye.
Oh, hi there, teachers.
Welcome to the Unteachablespodcast.
I'm your host, Claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, fabulous teacher.
Welcome back to theUnteachables podcast.
It is a joy to have you backhere with me or, if you're
listening for the first time,welcome.
It's lovely to have you hereand I hope that you stick around
.
So I'm just going to crackstraight into it, because I'm
(01:06):
getting another chest infection.
Last week I went to theResilience Project Teacher
Seminar and anybody who knows,if you're an avid podcast
listener like me, you might knowthe Imperfects podcast and the
host on there, hugh.
He has another um, another kindof project called the
resilience project and it's likea kind of wellbeing curriculum
(01:29):
for for schools and students.
So they, in the seminar theywere taking us through, um, you
know things about student mentalhealth and teacher wellbeing
and you know, going throughthose pillars of their
curriculum which are gratitude,empathy and mindfulness and then
emotional literacy, and this islike the power of connection,
the power we have to kind ofwork with these young people and
change lives.
(01:50):
Really, and it sounds likequite cheesy.
I'm always really conscious ofsaying things like, oh, we're
changing lives, but obviously Ido this work, like I work here
doing classroom management stuff.
I am called the Unteachablesfor a reason.
It's because I am all about youbeing able to go in and support
(02:12):
every single student, even theones that are deemed unteachable
, in the best way that youpossibly can be, the most
empowered way that you can bethe most equipped, all of those
things Anyway.
So it does sound cheesy Like wehave the power to change the
lives of these young people.
But this seminar that I went toright, it just realigned me with
(02:33):
why the hell I sit here and dothis every single day.
It was so I feel like I wasmeant to go to this conference.
I felt so energized leaving.
I mean I was sobbing for a lotof the seminar, just like the
narratives they told and thestatistics and just the things
that they were talking about.
(02:54):
It was just yeah, it was reallymoving Anyway.
So I left feeling moreenergized than ever with this
work and feeling like my God,that is why I started the
Unteachables.
That is why I need to continuedoing what I'm doing and not in
like a oh, look at how great Iam way.
Not at all.
It's just like this work,freaking matters and work with
(03:15):
you as a teacher sitting therelike in a classroom who doesn't
have the bloody support to beable to support the students who
have the most complex behaviors.
So, anyway, I left feelingreally energized about this work
and I wanted to take youthrough some of the things today
that I heard in the seminarthat made me it was quite
sobering around, like what thestate of you know mental health
(03:38):
is in schools and in the worldin general.
So I want to take you through acouple of those things that made
me step back and go oof, likehealth is in schools and in the
world in general.
So I want to take you through acouple of those things that
made me step back and go oof,like this is why we have the
most important job in the worldand this is why I need to
continue doing the work that I'mdoing, and this is why it's so
important to be able to, like,put those things in the
foreground of connection andcompassion and, you know, trying
(04:01):
to remain regulated and all ofthose things.
So I will just crack into it,because I'll probably waffle on
for ages otherwise, because itis off the cuff this episode.
But I have written a couple ofthese stats down.
So the first thing that theywent through, like Hugh did this
incredible first openingpresentation and it was kind of
about the general mental healthin our society and in our
(04:22):
schools and the just the waylike the power of it was really
about the general mental healthin our society and in our
schools and the just the waylike the power of it was really
about the power of gratitude andall of those things.
And oh my God, hugh, if you'relistening, you're not listening
to my podcast, but if you were,oh my gosh, I already told you
in person but, yeah, it wasreally moving, but anyway.
So the World Health Organizationpredicts that by 2030, the
(04:46):
leading disease in the worldwill be depression.
Like, the leading disease outof every single disease is going
to be depression, and theleading cause of death by 2030
is predicted to be suicide.
And, as I was saying in theconference, the predictions from
the World Health Organizationare quite scarily on point.
(05:08):
But what the hell do we do withthat information?
Because it is like it's quiteobviously, it's sobering to hear
.
Well, most children do attendschool and we really have more
time with our students than theydo at home with their families.
And we're in this really uniquesituation as teachers, where we
have so many touch points withthem and so many opportunities
(05:31):
to make choices that connect, toheal, to model emotional
regulation, to model emotionalliteracy, to model vulnerability
, to model being open with ourfeelings and processing them and
seeking support.
We're just in this reallyunique, beautiful position for
us to be able to touch the livesof so many young people.
(05:51):
And I'm not saying that we have, like you know, we don't have
any superpowers.
We're not going to be, like youknow, going out there changing
the world but like by changingthe narrative for one student,
by providing one student withthe skills to be able to go out
there and ask for help or tohave the language to name how
(06:12):
they're feeling, like thatactually can change the world of
that person.
And if we're just doing that inlittle micro ways as teachers
every single day, like that isthis huge shift in society that
we can create.
What I'm not saying is that ofcourse, there's like wellbeing
curriculums and there's reallyexplicit things that we can do
(06:33):
around that stuff.
But what I do hear a lot is youknow, we're just teachers,
we're not psychologists, we'renot.
You know, we have to getthrough our curriculum and I'm
an English teacher, I'm not aSEL teacher.
I hear you, I freaking get it.
But that does not mean thatwhen we're standing in front of
a student and they're having areally difficult time, that
(06:54):
instead of choosing to go down apath that is more disconnecting
, we can then choose a paththat's more connecting, more
calm.
We're going to co-regulate withthem and every single time we
make that choice, we arechanging the brain chemistry of
that student.
We're changing the way thatwe're connecting with that
student where, like throughneuroplasticity, we're actually
helping them to create neuralpathways that help them to then
(07:17):
be able to regulate and thinkabout when they have kids and
then, instead of you know,continuing a cycle where they're
not being emotionally availableor open or you know all of
those things, they're then ableto recognize their emotions, be
able to co-regulate with theirchildren.
All of those things and I knowthis is a big ramble, but like
it's just in those micro moments.
(07:37):
It doesn't mean, of course,like I do do things where we're
doing explicit teaching ofemotions, explicit teaching of
regulation skills.
You know, I've got lessons,I've got all of those things
that I do encourage people touse as a proactive classroom
management tool, and we do thatthrough, obviously, like
supporting our students, however, and empowering them with like
knowledge around their brains.
(07:58):
However, it doesn't have to bein those really big, explicit
ways.
It can just be through, yeah,making the choices to connect
rather than disconnect.
It can be as simple as that andbeing able to model regulation
and being able to model like,hey, I'm feeling like crap today
, like, um, you know how am Igoing to work through this?
I'm going to take a couple ofdeep breaths, like let's all do
(08:19):
one minute in the morning ofdeep breathing instead of, you
know, going down a pathway whereI feel really dysregulated,
going into my lesson.
Anyway, another couple ofstatistics.
These are student mental healthstatistics like so specifically
that and this is from theResilient Youth State of the
Nation Report 2024.
So this is specifically aboutAustralia, but obviously, like
(08:43):
you know, things are veryrelevant worldwide.
So one in four primary studentsexperience high levels of
depression or anxiety.
So 25% of all primary schoolstudents experience high levels
of depression or anxiety.
So 25% of all primary schoolstudents experience high levels
of depression or anxiety.
That is stark.
Like these are young childrenalready coming to school feeling
like that and, as a result, 18%of primary students are turning
(09:06):
up to school ready to learn,like they're there with their
books, they're sitting at theirdesk and they are feeling
regulated and ready to learn.
Now let's talk about secondarystudents, because things just
keep going downhill.
Because one in three secondarystudents experience high levels
of depression or anxiety.
One in three.
That is a huge number.
Like if you've got 30 studentsin your class, 10 of them are
(09:30):
experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety and 16% of
secondary students are turningup ready to learn.
So if you've got a class of 30,I'm not going to do the math.
If anyone wants to do the mathfor me and get back to me.
16%.
So if you've got a class of 30,you might have five-ish of
(09:51):
secondary students who areturning up ready to learn.
I'm sorry for my horrible maths, but it is really scary.
And this tells me three thingsright.
The first thing is thatteaching is the hardest job in
the world because those statsmen, we are up against it.
If we have only got 16% of ourstudents turning up to class
ready to learn, that is just sosobering for the job that we
(10:13):
need to do.
And no wonder 47% of Australianteachers considered leaving the
profession within 12 months.
One year we go to universityteacher prep training.
Whatever you do around theworld, we go there for years.
Imagine turning up into a class.
You don't need to imaginebecause you're doing it like
going into a classroom and going.
(10:34):
I actually don't think this isfor me Like it's too hard.
47% half of Australian teachersconsidering leaving within 12
months.
And I know that that statisticis relevant for a lot of you out
there who are working in othercountries as well, because I've
worked in the UK.
Man, it's the same thing.
(10:56):
I've seen statistics from theUS.
It is the same thing, anyway.
So that's the first thing,right, teaching is the hardest
job in the world.
No wonder we're thinking aboutleaving.
The second thing is that thework that we do here at the
Unteachables is so importantbecause this isn't an additional
thing, this isn't just one morething.
As I said before, these arechoices that we make in the
everyday to connect.
So when people say it's not ourjob to worry about social,
emotional learning, that it'snot our job to teach them about
(11:19):
their feelings because, you know, I'm a blooming maths teacher
it is our job, because we have aresponsibility every single
time we are in a position wherewe're face toto-face, not just
with a student, but with anotherhuman being.
In the state of our currentworld, to choose kindness and
compassion over, you know, beingcritical or shaming or
disconnecting, I feel like wereally do have a responsibility
(11:43):
in our world to be the most kindversion of ourselves, because
that is life-changing forsomebody.
We just don't know whatsomebody else is going through.
We don't know who those 16% ofstudents are in our class that
are ready to learn and who theother.
Oh my gosh, 84%.
I hope that is the right, likeminusing number.
I really hope that's the case.
(12:04):
Anyway, you know, it's soimportant because we don't know
what people are going through.
So that is why this job isimportant.
And not only is teaching thehardest job in the world, like I
said first, but the third thingis it shows us that teaching is
the most important job in theworld because, yes, we have a
responsibility every time we'rein a position, when we're face
(12:25):
to face with another human being, to be the kindest version of
ourselves.
You know, just so we can try toshift this and try to.
I don't know.
You know, like I hope that thisis resonating with anybody out
there, but it makes it the mostimportant job in the world
because we're doing that on amass scale with the most
vulnerable people in our societywho maybe don't have access to
(12:49):
an adult role model who is ableto co-regulate with them because
of whatever they've gonethrough, who maybe isn't able to
show compassion for whatthey're going through because
they're stuck in crisis mode.
You know, and it makes it themost important job in the world
for that reason, just showingcompassion and kindness and you
know all of those things to ourstudents is just so crucial and
(13:10):
we can weave that into theeveryday.
It does not mean that we haveto be soft and, you know, not
have boundaries, because thosethings boundaries are kindness
and expectations are kindness,and that consistency is so
important.
If you listen to any otherepisodes of my podcast, you will
know how much of an advocate Iam for those things.
But yeah, I think you see whereI'm going with that.
(13:36):
Let's talk about teacher mentalhealth statistics now.
So 47% of Australian teachersconsidered leaving within 12
months.
So you already knew thatstatistic.
I said it before 52% ofteachers experience serious
depressive symptoms incomparison.
So you might think, but that'sadults.
That's the world that we'reliving in.
This statistic shows you thatthat is not the case.
So when people say, oh,teachers think they've got it
(13:58):
hard, but no, like this is isreally genuinely a problem with
teaching and something that weneed to address, because 52% of
teachers experience seriousdepressive symptoms in
comparison with 12% of thegeneral population, and 46% of
teachers experience seriousanxiety symptoms in comparison
(14:20):
with 9% of the generalpopulation.
That is scary and it is aproblem in the profession that
we need to be addressing and notthrough hey, let's pop a couple
of cupcakes in the staff roomand people will be happy.
There are serious issues andwhen you look at the student
mental health statistics, it isno wonder that teacher mental
(14:42):
health statistics are so badbecause of compassion, fatigue
and, you know, secondary trauma.
And we are constantly having toabsorb that one in four primary
students that's coming in withhigh levels of depression or
anxiety, or that one in threesecondary student who's
experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety.
They're coming into ourclassrooms and we are having to
(15:02):
absorb that every single day,that 10 out of 30 students who
are experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety.
We are constantly trying toco-regulate with them, we are
constantly trying to supportthem in whatever way that we can
.
Those students are going to bedemonstrating behaviors that are
a manifestation of thatdepression or that anxiety,
(15:23):
whether it is through you knowthem withdrawing or with them
having explosive fight or flightbehaviors.
We just we're constantly on thereceiving end of that and no
wonder if we are experiencingthat on mass.
No wonder 52% of us areexperiencing serious depressive
symptoms or 46% of us areexperiencing serious anxiety
(15:46):
symptoms.
And I have been there and Icompletely understand it.
So I'm not just sitting here ona pedestal working for the
unteachables going, hey, likeguys, like it's a really hard at
the moment, uh, in my foot andI don't think I've ever.
I think I've told you on thepodcast before that I
experienced burnout.
I have left schools beforebecause of certain reasons, but
in my first school that I endedup leaving, it was so toxic.
(16:10):
Things got so bad that I wassigned off to go on distress
leave because I was on the brink.
I was not okay, I was soanxious, I was so sick.
I remember sitting in my carevery and it was just a toxic
school environment.
So that school was in a lowsocioeconomic area of Sydney.
So those statistics like youknow, one in a low socioeconomic
(16:31):
area of Sydney.
So those statistics like youknow, one in three students
experiencing high levels ofdepression or anxiety.
I would not be surprised if itwas more like two in three
because of the context of theschool.
So I felt like I was constantlyabsorbing this stuff.
But on top of that, when you'reworking at a school where you're
, you know, trying to supportstudents that are the most
(16:53):
vulnerable or in deprivedenvironments, all those kinds of
things when you're trying to dothat.
But then you're also dealingwith a school that does feel
very toxic and I don't want tosay too much about that.
But when you're, you get itright.
If you get it, you get it.
But if you're also dealing withthat on top of it and the
(17:14):
environment isn't conducive to alot of support and it's
actually adding to the problems,then that is just this perfect
storm of what I was then havingto carry home with me every
single day.
But it was like also thecontext of what I was going
through.
But, um, you know, I I had togo on distress leave because I I
could not function.
I was in the car and I wouldhave an anxiety attack.
(17:37):
Going into the, I would see thegates and I would feel so sick.
I'd get home and I would not beable to connect.
Like I just went numb.
And I do think that I, lookingback now, I do think I had
compassion fatigue, but I thinkI was also experiencing a lot of
secondary trauma.
Anyway, at the time as well, Ialso found out that I so I had a
(17:57):
pap smear get your pap smears.
Like please, please, go getyour pap smears.
And I had done a pap smearabout six months earlier and
that pap smear.
So I got a call and the doctorhad said that that pap smear had
been lost, like the results hadbeen lost.
So I got a call and the doctorhad said that that pap smear had
been lost, like the results hadbeen lost.
And I got this frantic callfrom the doctors saying that you
(18:18):
need to leave work and come innow and talk to us about your
results.
And when I went to the doctorsthey're like hey, look, we're
really sorry, but we the papsmear did six months.
You know, you just think thatit's okay, like you just think,
if you don't hear back aboutyour results, that it's all good
.
But they're like hey, you knowthat, that you know that little
test you did six months ago tomake sure you didn't have
(18:39):
cervical cancer.
Well, I'm actually sorry, butit was bad and you have a lot of
what they call transformationzones.
They didn't know that at thetime, but they said I had a lot
of irregular cells in the papsmear.
So I then had to go and getbiopsies done and they found
like the whole cervix was atransformation zone.
(19:01):
So I had, and that just meansthat um, like, there's huge,
huge patches of abnormal cellsanyway.
So that was just.
It was horrific.
So dealing with that, having,like they just said, like it's
pre-cancer and I had to get thatdealt with and obviously
everything's fine um, but pleasego and get your pap smears if
you need to my partner at thetime was also very
(19:23):
psychologically abusive.
Um, I was in a situation where,like I mean, my upbringing was
quite difficult.
Um, I had a lot of situationsgoing on there, but then I went
into this relationship that wasvery psychologically abusive and
, on top of, like, dealing withthe stuff at school and dealing
with, you know, all of that kindof health stuff, I had a
(19:45):
partner who would kick me outevery week, every weekend,
because he wanted to go and hangout with his friends.
I was living with him and hewould just say nah, and start a
fight and and I would be out onmy bum trying to couch surf
around.
So that was not very healthy,obviously, and I was also still
trying to heal from all of thethings that had happened in my
(20:05):
childhood and adolescence, um,with my mom's um severe OCD and
if anyone has um had to care fora parent who has significant
mental health issues.
I am just sending so much loveto you because it is yeah, it's,
it's really hard and it'ssomething that still impacts me
today.
(20:26):
Anyway, so the point is thateverything happened at once and
I was so reluctant to go onstress leave because, as I said
before, my students had alsoexperienced high levels of
depression or anxiety.
They were struggling and I feltlike I had a responsibility.
But I had to go and talk tothat class about this and one of
(20:47):
the classes I was very close to, my year 10 class and that was
a class where a lot of them werestruggling with their own
mental health and I was veryaware of that because they used
to come to me and talk to meabout that all of the time and I
didn't want to pretend that itwas like you know, I didn't want
to just say to them like hey,I'm just, I'm just going off on
leave because I'm on holiday, oryou know, I felt like it was my
(21:08):
responsibility at the time tonormalize it rather than pretend
that it wasn't happening.
So I told them and you know, Ijust said I'm taking some time
away for a little bit because mymental health.
I'm going to be very honestwith all of you, it's not good
and I explained that I needed tobe okay, to come back and then
work with them in the best waythat I could.
And I explained you know whereI was sitting on the mental
(21:30):
health continuum to them, orwhatever it's called.
You know, like if we're in azero to 10, like where I was,
and I was saying like rightright now I'm here and you know
when we go down there, like it'sreally important to seek help.
And I went and sought help andthere's no shame in doing so,
and I told them like that, justas if it was somebody who had a
flu and needed time to getbetter and to feed their body
(21:52):
nutrients and to stay hydratedand to pull the cover up over
their damn heads and get better.
I just felt like I needed to dothe same when it came to my
mental health.
And that's how I kind ofexplained it to them and I told
them I didn't want to leave themand I told them that I wanted
to be back, but it wasn't theimportant thing that you know I
was going to do that so then Icould be back, and now some of
(22:14):
you are probably out therethinking that's pretty heavy for
year 10 students to hear.
Some of these year 10 studentswere dealing with the most
horrific things imaginabledomestic violence, sexual
assault, severe depression.
Some were self-harming, somewere going home not knowing if
they were going to be able toeat and some just felt so
hopeless with their lives and,of course, in my head I thought
I needed to stay there for them.
But I was just going numb fromit, like I was absorbing that
(22:36):
day after day and I felt likethe best thing that I could do
in that situation was modelmodel taking care of myself, but
also model how normal it is tonot be okay and to model going
and seeking help, because I wasa role model for them.
I was an adult, I was a verystable adult in their lives and
I felt like it was myresponsibility to um to let them
(22:59):
know that I wasn't okay and thesteps that I could take to be
able to take care of myself, um,anyway.
So, yeah, all of those thingsmeant that I wasn't showing up
for them in the way that Iwanted to, anyway, like just
secondary trauma, the compassionfatigue.
Anyway, that was a lot.
That's the first time I've everspoken about anything like that
on the podcast.
So please be kind, um, I hopethat you know.
(23:22):
You understand, um, where I'mcoming from with that.
But yes, it is so important,right, you're doing such
important work.
But those stats, they're scaryand show just how important it
is to take care of yourself, andI don't mean in a it's your
responsibility alone kind of way.
I mean, like you know, youreally need to take care of
(23:45):
yourself, and I know thatthere's so many barriers to
doing that as teachers.
But just like I did, like Ineeded to step away for a minute
, you know, and I came back somuch stronger and I feel so,
like empowered by the work thatI am doing, because I know how
important it is.
But I couldn't have done that,I couldn't have come back, if I
(24:07):
didn't address what was going onfor me.
So, yeah, please, if you'restruggling, please get help.
Please acknowledge the earlywarning signs of compassion,
fatigue or of secondary trauma.
Go and speak to someone.
At the seminar yesterday we didthis reflection activity and it
was like, when you're stressed,how do you know and how do other
people know, and how can otherpeople help you?
And I was like, oh crap, I feellike I'm on edge a lot, but
(24:31):
just being able to acknowledgethat and being able to put
things in place or talk topeople about like hey, when you
notice that I'm acting like this, like that's what's going on,
I've had a really hard day atschool.
Or what I used to always say tomy husband was I just need five
minutes after school to go intothe bedroom and not speak to
you Like I know you want to talkto me about my day, I know that
(25:01):
you want to connect with me andthat's great, but I actually
just need five minutes todecompress before I say anything
to you.
Anyway, that's it for thisepisode.
I know that was a long one andit was a heavy one, but that
seminar just it reallyhighlighted how important the
work we're doing is and also itmade me feel like it was so
important to share our stories,because the one thing that
presenters did so well at thisseminar was share their stories
(25:21):
like in a real and meaningfuland raw and vulnerable way, and
that is how we connect withother human beings.
And I'm not saying go out thereand talk to your kids about
mental health in a way.
That's like, you know, liketrauma, bombing them, like
that's not what we're doing here, and it was a very specific
situation that I spoke to myattends about and I did it in a
very careful way.
Um, that's not what I'm saying,but I'm saying modeling,
(25:44):
self-care, modeling, connection,modeling how we can take care
of ourselves, and you know allof the things.
But, um, just think, what isone thing I can do right now to
take care of myself and what'sone thing I can choose to do in
this moment to connect.
Like that's it.
You don't have to do a wellbeingcourse, like you don't have to
do a bunch of like convolutedthings, like hey, like what's
(26:07):
one thing right now that I cando to take care of myself and
what's one thing I can choose todo in this moment with my
students to connect rather thandisconnect.
Do in this moment with mystudents to connect rather than
disconnect.
And I'm going to leave it therebefore I keep on rambling, but
I am sending so much love to allof you and until next time,
take care.
Also, reach out.
If you related to any of this,please reach out and let me know
(26:27):
.
But, yeah, big love, bye.
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