August 4, 2025 • 22 mins
Why Your Presence Might Be Undermining Your Classroom Management (And How to Fix It)
Ever felt like you're being too nice... or not taken seriously enough in your classroom?
Like you're walking a tightrope between being warm and relatable and being respected as the leader of the room?
Whew—yeah. Been there. That’s exactly what today’s episode is all about.
We're kicking off the Behaviour Club Kickstart with Day 1: PRESENCE—because how we show up in our classrooms (literally, physically) impacts everything from student engagement to classroom climate. And trust me, the shifts we can make here are subtle but mighty.
In this episode, I’m giving you a front seat to one of the biggest lightbulb moments I ever had about classroom management—when I realised I wasn’t being taken seriously by my “easy” class… and it had everything to do with my nonverbal presence.
Here’s what we’re covering:
- The two teacher personas you're constantly switching between (and probably don’t even realise it)
- Why being "approachable" isn't always helping your classroom calm
- What “credible” non-verbal communication actually looks like (without being cold, robotic, or mean)
- How I accidentally nailed behaviour management with a “tricky” class… and totally flopped with my high flyers
- What to tweak immediately to lead with more calm, grounded authority (yes, even if you’re still finding your feet)
If you want the visuals, templates, and reflection prompts that go with this episode, make sure you’re signed up for the Behaviour Club Kickstart. It's just $1 and includes all five sessions + a super practical kickstart booklet to help you embed the work in your day-to-day.
🎟 Join the Kickstart here: https://www.the-unteachables.com/kickstart
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- The difference between credible and approachable teacher presence
- How your body language might be unintentionally inviting misbehaviour
- Where I went wrong with my year 10 class (and how I fixed it)
- Practical strategies to switch from “friendly chaos” to “calm credibility”
- The quickest way to reset your presence mid-lesson
Resources Mentioned:
- The Behaviour Club Kickstart → https://www.the-unteachables.com/kickstart
- Michael Grinder’s ENVoY (Educational Non-Verbal Yardsticks
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
👉 JOIN THE $1 KICKSTART! Click for more info and to jump in!
RESOURCES AND MORE SUPPORT:
- Shop all resources
- Join The Behaviour Club
- My book! It’s Never Just About the Behaviour: A holistic approach to classroom behaviour management
- The Low-Level Behaviour Bootcamp
- Free guide: 'Chats that Create Change'
Connect with me:
- Follow on Instagram @the.unteachables
- Check out my website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh, hi there, teachers, welcome to the
Unteachables podcast.
I'm your host, claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, fabulous teacher,welcome back to the Teachables
podcast.
It is a joy to have you here.
This month I am running theBehavior Club Kickstart, and
what the kickstart is is fiveshort sessions where you'll
(01:06):
learn one quick, simple,powerful strategy for each of
your lessons to reducedisruption, to increase
predictability, to build calm,confident teaching habits that
really shape your incrediblecompassionate, restorative but
actionably so, and trauma,informed but realistically so,
(01:26):
and it embeds it into everyfacet of your practice.
So it's all about our presenceand entry and transitions and
tasks and how we exit the roomand what you can do at each of
these stages to really nailclassroom management, to really
mitigate low-level behaviors, tocontrol what you can control,
and it really is about thosereally small shifts done every
(01:46):
single lesson for huge impact.
So I am so excited for you tolisten into these episodes
because I'll be going throughthem in the episodes as well,
but also the Behaviour Club.
Kickstart is something that youcan go and register for and
you'll get the accompanyingmaterials and you'll be able to
watch the sessions with theslides.
(02:06):
So it's going to be so muchmore valuable if you just press
pause on this episode and headto the-unteachablescom forward
slash kickstart, because thenyou'll be able to actually
follow along and reallyimplement these things into your
practice.
I'm really excited for us to getstarted with this.
I was actually originally goingto call it the back to school
challenge, but then I realizedthat it was just the stuff that
(02:29):
makes classroom management workin the day to day.
I also wanted it to besomething that could act as a
really beautiful introductioninto the behavior club and give
you an idea on what to work onnext.
So, behavior clubbers who arelistening to this, the reason
why I have popped the kickstartinside of the behavior club is
not just to give you five reallyquick wins when you enter the
(02:49):
behavior club so you can seewhat's possible for your
practice and go oh my gosh, likeI could actually do this, which
is such a huge barrier for someteachers, like that feeling of
hopelessness and like thingscan't change or, you know, you
feel really stuck.
So I wanted to create somethingfor you where you can be like
oh my gosh, like this can work,which is a huge barrier and also
have something where you can belike if you come in and go, I
(03:12):
just don't know what to work on.
You'll know because you'll gothrough the kickstart and each
kickstart session has your nextsteps.
If you're like, okay, I reallyunderstand now that I need to
work on my entry routine a bitmore or my exit routine or how
I'm tasking students.
You'll be able to then beguided to the next step inside
of the club.
So, yeah, that's it.
Here we go.
The Pavey Club Kickstart,remember.
(03:34):
Join the dash on teachablescomforward slash, kickstart and it
is $1.
And you might think why.
What's the point?
What's $1?
You know, like, why can't youjust make it free?
The reason I made it $1 isbecause when you rock up and
just enter your email, theamount of things that I have put
my name down for and I've justnot done it because I don't have
(03:57):
the time, you know, I justhaven't made the commitment to
it.
I wanted you to energeticallysay yes to doing this and to
commit to this.
I don't want you just to signup for it and not bother to log
into, and also the behaviorclub's quite a sacred space.
So I want people to joinbecause you do get access to the
um, the behavior club dashboard.
You can't access everythinginside of there, of course, but
I wanted it to be a hell yes.
I didn't want it to be like aoh yeah, maybe I want it to be
(04:18):
yes.
This sounds amazing.
I'm going to do these sessions,I'm going to see this progress,
and $1 might be not a lot ofthis economy, but it is an
energetic yes to making thatcommitment for the next step.
So come and join me, make thetime, commit to the kickstart.
But we will actually be goingthrough the content here on the
(04:40):
podcast as well Not in as muchdepth or not with the resources,
but we are kicking into day oneof the kickstart today, which
is presence.
So day one is presence.
Then we have entry, we havetask, we have rapport and then
we have exit.
So day one is presence.
And this session is going to beparticularly beneficial for
anybody who relates to thefollowing I find it hard to
(05:02):
balance being a kind andrelatable and approachable
teacher and really embodying thevalues of being calm and
compassionate and all of thosethings with then holding firm,
consistent boundaries and beingtaken seriously and feeling like
you're respected in the lessonand feeling like you're leading
the lesson.
And that is definitely how Ifelt when I first started
(05:22):
teaching.
I felt like I was just kind oftrying to constantly strike this
balance that I wasn't quitesure how to strike or what I was
doing, or you know, it wasreally tough for me and I do
talk about this in my book andI'm sure I've mentioned on the
podcast a few times too, becauseit's such a pivotal moment in
my career when this happened.
(05:42):
But I did Envoy training, whichis Michael Grinder's Envoy.
I think it stands foreducational non-verbal
yardsticks.
It's all about non-verbalclassroom management that is
connecting rather thandisconnecting, and it's just so
impactful.
It's just been such afoundation for my own practice,
anyway.
So I did this training and it'slike the penny dropped and all
(06:06):
of a sudden I could see what wasgoing on in my lessons and why.
You know, I was the problem.
I was I.
A lot of the issues that I wasexperiencing are because of the
things that I was doing myselfin these classes, without even
being aware of.
I wasn't aware that there arethese two kind of nonverbal
modes that we can swap between,and once I understood this, what
(06:27):
I'm going to be teaching youtoday and, of course, like the
training itself, was much longer, but there's this one concept
in there that just pinged all ofthe light bulbs off in my mind,
and this is the concept of thetwo kind of nonverbal profiles
that we can have, which is theapproachable and the credible.
Non-verbal, like the teachingpresences that we can step into,
(06:49):
and I have spoken about this onthe podcast before.
If you've listened to otherepisodes about low-level
behaviors, I speak about this alot when I talk about mitigating
low-level behaviors.
So it's the approachable andthe credible.
Before I did this training, Iwas really confused as to what
was going on because I got myclass lists for that year and I
had, like you know, six classes.
(07:11):
One of the classes was what youwould call the lower year eight
class and of course that'sproblematic, you know, grouping
them and saying that they're thelow class, and I'm not going to
go into that right now.
But then I had.
So I had the lower year eightclass that had a lot of
behavioral concerns.
They had a lot of complexitiesin their behavior profiles, a
(07:32):
lot of complex needs in thatclass that I, as an early career
teacher, had no bloody idea howto deal with.
And then, on the flip side, Iwas given the top year 10 class,
you know the year 10s that weregoing to be super studious and
engage, and I was so excited asan English teacher, I'm going to
get in there, I'm going toteach them Shakespeare, I'm
(07:53):
going to, you know, engage themand my English brain.
We get into, I think, highschool teachers, we go and study
our subjects and want to teachour subjects because we bloody
love it Like we love oursubjects.
We are passionate about oursubjects and I was so passionate
about English.
I was so passionate about theway that we can experience other
worlds through texts and likeit was such an escape for me
(08:16):
when I was at university and Irealized there was so much more
to the world and it just opensus up, right.
So I was so passionate aboutliterature and about English and
I was so excited to teach mystudents about English.
Now I realize that we don'tteach our subjects, we teach our
students and there's a bigdifference between those two.
But anyway, at the time, earlycareer teacher, so excited to
teach them literature as anEnglish teacher.
(08:39):
Anyway, it was not that easybecause what happened?
So things started out the waythat I would, you know, have
assumed they would have startedout.
The year eight class was verychallenging.
A lot of behavioral issues.
I was, like you know, a bit ofan uphill battle every lesson.
But I was going into everylesson like so damn determined
(09:01):
to like have a lesson that wascalm and have a lesson that was
productive.
So I was very intentional inwhat I lesson that was
productive.
So I was very intentional inwhat I was doing in that lesson.
I was very prepared, I was verycareful about the way that I was
presenting myself.
I was, you know that wholedon't smile till Christmas or
don't smile till Easter,depending on where you are in
the world.
I wasn't embodying thatnecessarily, but I was trying to
(09:24):
embody the idea that Ishouldn't be as bubbly and out
there.
And you know the personalitythat I came to kind of adopt
with that year 10 class.
So I was a little bit morestill with my movements, I was a
little bit quieter.
I was, you know, slower I was.
(09:45):
I was just, without evenrealizing it right, I was
intuitively trying to regulatewith the class, intuitively,
without even realizing what Iwas doing.
I was unconsciously incompetent, like I had no idea what I was
doing, but I was doing thingsintuitively as a human being
that was working with the year.
So I was doing all that.
I was prepared.
I had things up on the, on theboard when they got in.
(10:06):
I had a sitting plan.
I was just a different teacherwith them because I knew how
important it was to keep thoseboundaries, without really
understanding now what Iunderstand about doing all of
those things.
And things started to getbetter right.
But in the year 10 class I tooka different approach because
they were the top class, theywere the ones that were supposed
to be excited about English andexcited about learning.
So you could just imagine me asa really excited young English
(10:28):
teacher.
I was barely older than them.
They were in year 10.
I was fresh out of university,so I was probably like five
years older than them.
So I was like trying to riffoff how exciting English was and
try to engage them.
But what I was doing, withoutrealizing it, is every single
second of that lesson I wasfalling into a credible teaching
(10:49):
persona, I mean, sorry, anapproachable teaching persona.
And with the year eight class Iwas falling into a credible
teaching persona.
So I was embodying the teachingpersonas that I thought was
appropriate for those particularlessons.
But I was doing it all wrong.
And in that year 10 class thatreally showed because after
(11:11):
about a term I had All of asudden I realized that going
into that year eight class Ifelt calm, I felt okay.
It was still tough because Ididn't have the skills that I
have now and I didn't have theknowledge that I have now.
Of course it was still toughand I was working my butt off in
that class to try to get themto learn and to engage in all of
(11:31):
those things.
But it was happening.
It was naturally happening.
I was getting there, but thenthe year 10 class were going
backwards and I found myselfwalking out of that year 10
class every lesson with a hugeheadache.
I was constantly battlingchattiness, I was starting to
resent them and feeling likethey were getting really
arrogant about their abilities.
(11:52):
And you know, things justreally changed for me with those
two classes.
And then I caught myself.
I'm like, oh my gosh, what ishappening here?
Like this, year 10 class hasbecome the class that I really
struggle with and I just don'tlike teaching.
And the year eight class by theend of the lesson I was like
walking out with them and I'dgive them little high fives.
We had a class handshake.
(12:14):
It was beautiful.
That year eight class, I feltlike I had transformed that
class but, again, unconsciousabout it, I had no idea what I
was doing.
When I walked out of that Envoytraining, however, that Michael
Grinder training, all of thoselight bulbs went off and I
realized what was going on.
I realized where I was goingwrong.
I realized what was working,what wasn't working.
(12:36):
Of course, not all the puzzlepieces, but when it came to my
nonverbal teacher presence, itwas so clear.
So there are two nonverbalpersonas that we can embody in
the classroom and all of thenonverbal language that we use
can be grouped into these twostyles.
Both are so important and Ithink that that year eight story
(12:57):
reflects that, because I wasable to also embody the, the
approachable at the end of thelesson, once that lesson was
over, I was able to kind of letthose parts of myself out.
But a strong teaching persona isso reliant on us using these at
the right time and they reallycan be make or break for our
classroom management.
But if you're struggling withthis right now, it can be as
(13:20):
easy as a flick of a switch.
It is a little bit hard to getcomfortable being more in your
credible body, but credible andboundaries.
It's not the opposite ofcompassion.
Please understand that.
It's not the opposite of usbeing compassionate and kind and
building rapport with ourstudents.
It is one and the same.
It's just us and our nonverballanguage right?
(13:41):
So the approachable when we aremore in our approachable body,
we are relaxed.
We might be slouching, we mighthave weight on one foot, we
might have more of a bubblypersona speaking with an upwards
inflection, maybe a loudervolume or tone, quicker pace.
We're more gestural and I haveobserved so many lessons in my
career and mentored so manyteachers and supported so many
(14:02):
teachers and I'm telling you nowone of the things that I have
helped them switch that likeflick that, switch on is just
them tweaking one element oftheir nonverbal language.
So, for example, they might beup there up the front and
they're trying to giveinstructions to the class, but
I've noticed in their bodylanguage they're you know,
they're talking seriously andthey're trying to get students
(14:24):
to listen, but their weight's onone foot and they're slouching
and their body language is notin the credible.
Just that little tweak can bemake or break.
So that is the approachable.
We're more relaxed, we'reslouching, bubbly, persona,
where you know, not all of theseat the same time, necessarily,
but you know we're kind of usingthis, these messages, we're
(14:44):
sending these messages out.
When we do use this, of courseit's important for us to use our
approachable body language,sometimes our approachable
non-verbals.
We might use it when we'reone-to-one with small group
instruction.
We're definitely using it likeoutside of a classroom context,
maybe when we're doing a storytime, like I would always sit on
the table up the front when I'mtelling them a story or trying
(15:06):
to engage them through narrative, and they'd be like oh, story
time with Miss English.
And they know that I'm in myapproachable body language.
I'm more open to having a chat.
You know, during more informalclass discussions, building
relationships, maybe whenthey're doing something
practical in the lesson and I'mkind of walking around having a
chat to them, the message thatthe approachable sends is that
(15:29):
right now I'm down for a chat,right now we're having a
discussion.
It's more collaborative.
I'm happy for you to call someanswers out.
We're having a bit of a laugh,we're all good here.
So if you are in yourapproachable body language but
you don't want to send thosemessages, you need to shift it
to the credible.
Right Now let's talk about thecredible.
The credible is what I wastrying to embody with year eight
(15:49):
, without even realizing it.
So the credible looks like aquieter tone, you know, less
high energy, more serious.
We're speaking with a downwardsinflection.
We're standing straight.
Our movements are calm, they'reslow.
They're considered credible.
You know, like how would youimagine credible to be?
Our weight is evenlydistributed onto both feet.
We're planting our feet downinto the ground.
(16:12):
When we use this, you know,whenever we want to model to our
students, that it is the timeto be a little bit more serious
or it is the time to listen andto be engaging in that way.
So like whole group instructionor transitions, when you
require attention and engagement, more formal discussions where
you need to lead and maintain acalm and controlled climate,
(16:34):
entering the class calmly andquietly, supervising exams and
assemblies, like if you'resupervising an exam, you might
naturally embody the crediblebecause you understand
intuitively that you need to bemodeling what you want back from
the students.
I've seen teachers in examsthat are like talking loudly to
a student they're trying tosupport, or like trying to yell
(16:56):
an instruction over the hall orup the front, with teachers like
visibly having a really funnychit chat.
I mean, I have been the teacherin exams that has like little
races down the lines with otherteachers or I've done all that
right.
I'm not saying that you can'thave a bit of a laugh or you
can't try to kill those twohours or three hours in the best
(17:18):
way possible.
That's not soul sucking.
But I'm saying like you know,modeling what you want back from
the students when they can seeyou, it's really important.
Otherwise they see you at thefront having a chat.
They're like okay, maybe I canlike have a bit of a whisper to
the person next to me whatmessages these non-verbals send.
So this is a time for work andattention.
I am leading this room and thisdiscussion.
(17:40):
I am holding boundaries andexpectations around what we are
doing right now in this space.
This is the time we need to bea bit more serious with our work
and you need the approachableto develop that connection,
trust and rapport.
But you need time in thecredible so you can lead the
room and get down to thebusiness end of the lessons and
get down to work.
You just need to do it in theright time and in the right way,
(18:03):
especially when you want tomitigate those low level
behaviors or the chattiness.
Always opt for the credible whenyou are wanting them to listen,
when you're wanting them to bedoing quite independent work.
Anytime you want your studentsto be you know, cracking on with
what they need to do yourstudents to be you know,
cracking on with what they needto do.
Opt for the credible and don'tmake the mistakes that I have
(18:23):
made, and I hope that thissession has just helped you.
Maybe you've gotten the samelight bulb moments that I had
when I walked out of my Envoytraining and I was like, oh my
gosh, I have just been doing itall wrong with my year 10s.
No wonder things are absolutelychaotic in there, because I
myself am always in theapproachable and even when I'm
(18:43):
trying to be serious with them,I'm still like flipping from
place to place and I'm stillfrantic and I'm still rushing
and I'm still calling things outor trying to talk over them and
feeling really frantic.
So no wonder the class was theway that it was.
And if you're ever in doubt,just ask yourself what I want to
see right now for my studentsand how can I model that, how
(19:05):
can I be what I want to see withmy students right now.
If you want to watch thatsession, please come and join
the kickstart, because with thatsession as well, obviously you
get to see visuals, like youknow, representations of what
credible and approachable looklike.
I show you kind of someexamples of that.
I give you a like a templatethat you can take away.
(19:28):
It's a checklist, a crediblechecklist, so you can go through
that and kind of self-assesswhere you are at with your
credible and approachable bodylanguages.
You also get the kickstartbooklet and you get like a
little reflection page at theend of each session where you do
a quick win challenge.
So I've got a challenge therefor you when it comes to your
(19:49):
credible and approachable bodylanguage.
So it is so worth going andjoining the kickstart, even if
you understood this session, andobviously if you want to get
all of the sessions to come.
All of them are just asactionable, um, just as powerful
as this one really quick shiftsthat you can make in your
practice.
So the dash on teachablescomforward slash kickstart.
(20:12):
I will drop that in the shownotes as well.
But for today, just think is mybody language predominantly in
the credible or is itpredominantly in the
approachable, and when am Iusing those styles?
Go and reflect on that.
I hope it's really enlighteningand I look forward to seeing
you inside of the kickstart.
If you do join the kickstart andyou're from the podcast, if you
(20:35):
come from the podcast, sayhello to say hey, I listened to
the podcast episode and I amdoing the kickstart.
I would love to hear from you.
Just just reply to that welcomeemail and let me know what
you're all about, what yourgoals are, what you teach, where
you are in the world all ofthose things I love to connect
with all of you, wonderfulteachers.
Okay, that's it.
Have a wonderful day, week,commute to work, walk, whatever
(21:02):
you're doing right now as you'relistening to this podcast
episode, and I will see you inthe next one.
Bye for now.
Oh, hi there, teachers, welcome to the
Unteachables podcast.
I'm your host, claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, fabulous teacher,welcome back to the Teachables
podcast.
It is a joy to have you here.
This month I am running theBehavior Club Kickstart, and
what the kickstart is is fiveshort sessions where you'll
(01:06):
learn one quick, simple,powerful strategy for each of
your lessons to reducedisruption, to increase
predictability, to build calm,confident teaching habits that
really shape your incrediblecompassionate, restorative but
actionably so, and trauma,informed but realistically so,
(01:26):
and it embeds it into everyfacet of your practice.
So it's all about our presenceand entry and transitions and
tasks and how we exit the roomand what you can do at each of
these stages to really nailclassroom management, to really
mitigate low-level behaviors, tocontrol what you can control,
and it really is about thosereally small shifts done every
(01:46):
single lesson for huge impact.
So I am so excited for you tolisten into these episodes
because I'll be going throughthem in the episodes as well,
but also the Behaviour Club.
Kickstart is something that youcan go and register for and
you'll get the accompanyingmaterials and you'll be able to
watch the sessions with theslides.
(02:06):
So it's going to be so muchmore valuable if you just press
pause on this episode and headto the-unteachablescom forward
slash kickstart, because thenyou'll be able to actually
follow along and reallyimplement these things into your
practice.
I'm really excited for us to getstarted with this.
I was actually originally goingto call it the back to school
challenge, but then I realizedthat it was just the stuff that
(02:29):
makes classroom management workin the day to day.
I also wanted it to besomething that could act as a
really beautiful introductioninto the behavior club and give
you an idea on what to work onnext.
So, behavior clubbers who arelistening to this, the reason
why I have popped the kickstartinside of the behavior club is
not just to give you five reallyquick wins when you enter the
(02:49):
behavior club so you can seewhat's possible for your
practice and go oh my gosh, likeI could actually do this, which
is such a huge barrier for someteachers, like that feeling of
hopelessness and like thingscan't change or, you know, you
feel really stuck.
So I wanted to create somethingfor you where you can be like
oh my gosh, like this can work,which is a huge barrier and also
have something where you can belike if you come in and go, I
(03:12):
just don't know what to work on.
You'll know because you'll gothrough the kickstart and each
kickstart session has your nextsteps.
If you're like, okay, I reallyunderstand now that I need to
work on my entry routine a bitmore or my exit routine or how
I'm tasking students.
You'll be able to then beguided to the next step inside
of the club.
So, yeah, that's it.
Here we go.
The Pavey Club Kickstart,remember.
(03:34):
Join the dash on teachablescomforward slash, kickstart and it
is $1.
And you might think why.
What's the point?
What's $1?
You know, like, why can't youjust make it free?
The reason I made it $1 isbecause when you rock up and
just enter your email, theamount of things that I have put
my name down for and I've justnot done it because I don't have
(03:57):
the time, you know, I justhaven't made the commitment to
it.
I wanted you to energeticallysay yes to doing this and to
commit to this.
I don't want you just to signup for it and not bother to log
into, and also the behaviorclub's quite a sacred space.
So I want people to joinbecause you do get access to the
um, the behavior club dashboard.
You can't access everythinginside of there, of course, but
I wanted it to be a hell yes.
I didn't want it to be like aoh yeah, maybe I want it to be
(04:18):
yes.
This sounds amazing.
I'm going to do these sessions,I'm going to see this progress,
and $1 might be not a lot ofthis economy, but it is an
energetic yes to making thatcommitment for the next step.
So come and join me, make thetime, commit to the kickstart.
But we will actually be goingthrough the content here on the
(04:40):
podcast as well Not in as muchdepth or not with the resources,
but we are kicking into day oneof the kickstart today, which
is presence.
So day one is presence.
Then we have entry, we havetask, we have rapport and then
we have exit.
So day one is presence.
And this session is going to beparticularly beneficial for
anybody who relates to thefollowing I find it hard to
(05:02):
balance being a kind andrelatable and approachable
teacher and really embodying thevalues of being calm and
compassionate and all of thosethings with then holding firm,
consistent boundaries and beingtaken seriously and feeling like
you're respected in the lessonand feeling like you're leading
the lesson.
And that is definitely how Ifelt when I first started
(05:22):
teaching.
I felt like I was just kind oftrying to constantly strike this
balance that I wasn't quitesure how to strike or what I was
doing, or you know, it wasreally tough for me and I do
talk about this in my book andI'm sure I've mentioned on the
podcast a few times too, becauseit's such a pivotal moment in
my career when this happened.
(05:42):
But I did Envoy training, whichis Michael Grinder's Envoy.
I think it stands foreducational non-verbal
yardsticks.
It's all about non-verbalclassroom management that is
connecting rather thandisconnecting, and it's just so
impactful.
It's just been such afoundation for my own practice,
anyway.
So I did this training and it'slike the penny dropped and all
(06:06):
of a sudden I could see what wasgoing on in my lessons and why.
You know, I was the problem.
I was I.
A lot of the issues that I wasexperiencing are because of the
things that I was doing myselfin these classes, without even
being aware of.
I wasn't aware that there arethese two kind of nonverbal
modes that we can swap between,and once I understood this, what
(06:27):
I'm going to be teaching youtoday and, of course, like the
training itself, was much longer, but there's this one concept
in there that just pinged all ofthe light bulbs off in my mind,
and this is the concept of thetwo kind of nonverbal profiles
that we can have, which is theapproachable and the credible.
Non-verbal, like the teachingpresences that we can step into,
(06:49):
and I have spoken about this onthe podcast before.
If you've listened to otherepisodes about low-level
behaviors, I speak about this alot when I talk about mitigating
low-level behaviors.
So it's the approachable andthe credible.
Before I did this training, Iwas really confused as to what
was going on because I got myclass lists for that year and I
had, like you know, six classes.
(07:11):
One of the classes was what youwould call the lower year eight
class and of course that'sproblematic, you know, grouping
them and saying that they're thelow class, and I'm not going to
go into that right now.
But then I had.
So I had the lower year eightclass that had a lot of
behavioral concerns.
They had a lot of complexitiesin their behavior profiles, a
(07:32):
lot of complex needs in thatclass that I, as an early career
teacher, had no bloody idea howto deal with.
And then, on the flip side, Iwas given the top year 10 class,
you know the year 10s that weregoing to be super studious and
engage, and I was so excited asan English teacher, I'm going to
get in there, I'm going toteach them Shakespeare, I'm
(07:53):
going to, you know, engage themand my English brain.
We get into, I think, highschool teachers, we go and study
our subjects and want to teachour subjects because we bloody
love it Like we love oursubjects.
We are passionate about oursubjects and I was so passionate
about English.
I was so passionate about theway that we can experience other
worlds through texts and likeit was such an escape for me
(08:16):
when I was at university and Irealized there was so much more
to the world and it just opensus up, right.
So I was so passionate aboutliterature and about English and
I was so excited to teach mystudents about English.
Now I realize that we don'tteach our subjects, we teach our
students and there's a bigdifference between those two.
But anyway, at the time, earlycareer teacher, so excited to
teach them literature as anEnglish teacher.
(08:39):
Anyway, it was not that easybecause what happened?
So things started out the waythat I would, you know, have
assumed they would have startedout.
The year eight class was verychallenging.
A lot of behavioral issues.
I was, like you know, a bit ofan uphill battle every lesson.
But I was going into everylesson like so damn determined
(09:01):
to like have a lesson that wascalm and have a lesson that was
productive.
So I was very intentional inwhat I lesson that was
productive.
So I was very intentional inwhat I was doing in that lesson.
I was very prepared, I was verycareful about the way that I was
presenting myself.
I was, you know that wholedon't smile till Christmas or
don't smile till Easter,depending on where you are in
the world.
I wasn't embodying thatnecessarily, but I was trying to
(09:24):
embody the idea that Ishouldn't be as bubbly and out
there.
And you know the personalitythat I came to kind of adopt
with that year 10 class.
So I was a little bit morestill with my movements, I was a
little bit quieter.
I was, you know, slower I was.
(09:45):
I was just, without evenrealizing it right, I was
intuitively trying to regulatewith the class, intuitively,
without even realizing what Iwas doing.
I was unconsciously incompetent, like I had no idea what I was
doing, but I was doing thingsintuitively as a human being
that was working with the year.
So I was doing all that.
I was prepared.
I had things up on the, on theboard when they got in.
(10:06):
I had a sitting plan.
I was just a different teacherwith them because I knew how
important it was to keep thoseboundaries, without really
understanding now what Iunderstand about doing all of
those things.
And things started to getbetter right.
But in the year 10 class I tooka different approach because
they were the top class, theywere the ones that were supposed
to be excited about English andexcited about learning.
So you could just imagine me asa really excited young English
(10:28):
teacher.
I was barely older than them.
They were in year 10.
I was fresh out of university,so I was probably like five
years older than them.
So I was like trying to riffoff how exciting English was and
try to engage them.
But what I was doing, withoutrealizing it, is every single
second of that lesson I wasfalling into a credible teaching
(10:49):
persona, I mean, sorry, anapproachable teaching persona.
And with the year eight class Iwas falling into a credible
teaching persona.
So I was embodying the teachingpersonas that I thought was
appropriate for those particularlessons.
But I was doing it all wrong.
And in that year 10 class thatreally showed because after
(11:11):
about a term I had All of asudden I realized that going
into that year eight class Ifelt calm, I felt okay.
It was still tough because Ididn't have the skills that I
have now and I didn't have theknowledge that I have now.
Of course it was still toughand I was working my butt off in
that class to try to get themto learn and to engage in all of
(11:31):
those things.
But it was happening.
It was naturally happening.
I was getting there, but thenthe year 10 class were going
backwards and I found myselfwalking out of that year 10
class every lesson with a hugeheadache.
I was constantly battlingchattiness, I was starting to
resent them and feeling likethey were getting really
arrogant about their abilities.
(11:52):
And you know, things justreally changed for me with those
two classes.
And then I caught myself.
I'm like, oh my gosh, what ishappening here?
Like this, year 10 class hasbecome the class that I really
struggle with and I just don'tlike teaching.
And the year eight class by theend of the lesson I was like
walking out with them and I'dgive them little high fives.
We had a class handshake.
(12:14):
It was beautiful.
That year eight class, I feltlike I had transformed that
class but, again, unconsciousabout it, I had no idea what I
was doing.
When I walked out of that Envoytraining, however, that Michael
Grinder training, all of thoselight bulbs went off and I
realized what was going on.
I realized where I was goingwrong.
I realized what was working,what wasn't working.
(12:36):
Of course, not all the puzzlepieces, but when it came to my
nonverbal teacher presence, itwas so clear.
So there are two nonverbalpersonas that we can embody in
the classroom and all of thenonverbal language that we use
can be grouped into these twostyles.
Both are so important and Ithink that that year eight story
(12:57):
reflects that, because I wasable to also embody the, the
approachable at the end of thelesson, once that lesson was
over, I was able to kind of letthose parts of myself out.
But a strong teaching persona isso reliant on us using these at
the right time and they reallycan be make or break for our
classroom management.
But if you're struggling withthis right now, it can be as
(13:20):
easy as a flick of a switch.
It is a little bit hard to getcomfortable being more in your
credible body, but credible andboundaries.
It's not the opposite ofcompassion.
Please understand that.
It's not the opposite of usbeing compassionate and kind and
building rapport with ourstudents.
It is one and the same.
It's just us and our nonverballanguage right?
(13:41):
So the approachable when we aremore in our approachable body,
we are relaxed.
We might be slouching, we mighthave weight on one foot, we
might have more of a bubblypersona speaking with an upwards
inflection, maybe a loudervolume or tone, quicker pace.
We're more gestural and I haveobserved so many lessons in my
career and mentored so manyteachers and supported so many
(14:02):
teachers and I'm telling you nowone of the things that I have
helped them switch that likeflick that, switch on is just
them tweaking one element oftheir nonverbal language.
So, for example, they might beup there up the front and
they're trying to giveinstructions to the class, but
I've noticed in their bodylanguage they're you know,
they're talking seriously andthey're trying to get students
(14:24):
to listen, but their weight's onone foot and they're slouching
and their body language is notin the credible.
Just that little tweak can bemake or break.
So that is the approachable.
We're more relaxed, we'reslouching, bubbly, persona,
where you know, not all of theseat the same time, necessarily,
but you know we're kind of usingthis, these messages, we're
(14:44):
sending these messages out.
When we do use this, of courseit's important for us to use our
approachable body language,sometimes our approachable
non-verbals.
We might use it when we'reone-to-one with small group
instruction.
We're definitely using it likeoutside of a classroom context,
maybe when we're doing a storytime, like I would always sit on
the table up the front when I'mtelling them a story or trying
(15:06):
to engage them through narrative, and they'd be like oh, story
time with Miss English.
And they know that I'm in myapproachable body language.
I'm more open to having a chat.
You know, during more informalclass discussions, building
relationships, maybe whenthey're doing something
practical in the lesson and I'mkind of walking around having a
chat to them, the message thatthe approachable sends is that
(15:29):
right now I'm down for a chat,right now we're having a
discussion.
It's more collaborative.
I'm happy for you to call someanswers out.
We're having a bit of a laugh,we're all good here.
So if you are in yourapproachable body language but
you don't want to send thosemessages, you need to shift it
to the credible.
Right Now let's talk about thecredible.
The credible is what I wastrying to embody with year eight
(15:49):
, without even realizing it.
So the credible looks like aquieter tone, you know, less
high energy, more serious.
We're speaking with a downwardsinflection.
We're standing straight.
Our movements are calm, they'reslow.
They're considered credible.
You know, like how would youimagine credible to be?
Our weight is evenlydistributed onto both feet.
We're planting our feet downinto the ground.
(16:12):
When we use this, you know,whenever we want to model to our
students, that it is the timeto be a little bit more serious
or it is the time to listen andto be engaging in that way.
So like whole group instructionor transitions, when you
require attention and engagement, more formal discussions where
you need to lead and maintain acalm and controlled climate,
(16:34):
entering the class calmly andquietly, supervising exams and
assemblies, like if you'resupervising an exam, you might
naturally embody the crediblebecause you understand
intuitively that you need to bemodeling what you want back from
the students.
I've seen teachers in examsthat are like talking loudly to
a student they're trying tosupport, or like trying to yell
(16:56):
an instruction over the hall orup the front, with teachers like
visibly having a really funnychit chat.
I mean, I have been the teacherin exams that has like little
races down the lines with otherteachers or I've done all that
right.
I'm not saying that you can'thave a bit of a laugh or you
can't try to kill those twohours or three hours in the best
(17:18):
way possible.
That's not soul sucking.
But I'm saying like you know,modeling what you want back from
the students when they can seeyou, it's really important.
Otherwise they see you at thefront having a chat.
They're like okay, maybe I canlike have a bit of a whisper to
the person next to me whatmessages these non-verbals send.
So this is a time for work andattention.
I am leading this room and thisdiscussion.
(17:40):
I am holding boundaries andexpectations around what we are
doing right now in this space.
This is the time we need to bea bit more serious with our work
and you need the approachableto develop that connection,
trust and rapport.
But you need time in thecredible so you can lead the
room and get down to thebusiness end of the lessons and
get down to work.
You just need to do it in theright time and in the right way,
(18:03):
especially when you want tomitigate those low level
behaviors or the chattiness.
Always opt for the credible whenyou are wanting them to listen,
when you're wanting them to bedoing quite independent work.
Anytime you want your studentsto be you know, cracking on with
what they need to do yourstudents to be you know,
cracking on with what they needto do.
Opt for the credible and don'tmake the mistakes that I have
(18:23):
made, and I hope that thissession has just helped you.
Maybe you've gotten the samelight bulb moments that I had
when I walked out of my Envoytraining and I was like, oh my
gosh, I have just been doing itall wrong with my year 10s.
No wonder things are absolutelychaotic in there, because I
myself am always in theapproachable and even when I'm
(18:43):
trying to be serious with them,I'm still like flipping from
place to place and I'm stillfrantic and I'm still rushing
and I'm still calling things outor trying to talk over them and
feeling really frantic.
So no wonder the class was theway that it was.
And if you're ever in doubt,just ask yourself what I want to
see right now for my studentsand how can I model that, how
(19:05):
can I be what I want to see withmy students right now.
If you want to watch thatsession, please come and join
the kickstart, because with thatsession as well, obviously you
get to see visuals, like youknow, representations of what
credible and approachable looklike.
I show you kind of someexamples of that.
I give you a like a templatethat you can take away.
(19:28):
It's a checklist, a crediblechecklist, so you can go through
that and kind of self-assesswhere you are at with your
credible and approachable bodylanguages.
You also get the kickstartbooklet and you get like a
little reflection page at theend of each session where you do
a quick win challenge.
So I've got a challenge therefor you when it comes to your
(19:49):
credible and approachable bodylanguage.
So it is so worth going andjoining the kickstart, even if
you understood this session, andobviously if you want to get
all of the sessions to come.
All of them are just asactionable, um, just as powerful
as this one really quick shiftsthat you can make in your
practice.
So the dash on teachablescomforward slash kickstart.
(20:12):
I will drop that in the shownotes as well.
But for today, just think is mybody language predominantly in
the credible or is itpredominantly in the
approachable, and when am Iusing those styles?
Go and reflect on that.
I hope it's really enlighteningand I look forward to seeing
you inside of the kickstart.
If you do join the kickstart andyou're from the podcast, if you
(20:35):
come from the podcast, sayhello to say hey, I listened to
the podcast episode and I amdoing the kickstart.
I would love to hear from you.
Just just reply to that welcomeemail and let me know what
you're all about, what yourgoals are, what you teach, where
you are in the world all ofthose things I love to connect
with all of you, wonderfulteachers.
Okay, that's it.
Have a wonderful day, week,commute to work, walk, whatever
(21:02):
you're doing right now as you'relistening to this podcast
episode, and I will see you inthe next one.
Bye for now.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!