We’re busting a big ol’ classroom management myth in this episode: that being kind, compassionate, and empathetic means you’re “too soft” to manage behaviour effectively.
Because I’m seeing it everywhere right now - especially from all the beautiful new teachers joining me inside The Behaviour Club - this feeling of, “Am I doing it wrong?” “Am I too nice?” “Do I need to start being strict to be taken seriously?”
Short answer? No.
Longer answer? Let’s talk about it.
This episode is a riffed, unfiltered reminder that you don’t need to ditch your warmth or change your personality to be respected in the classroom. And if you're walking into class bracing for impact, because the last thing that worked was yelling or snapping, you need to hear this one.
I’m giving you a front seat to my own story from when I started teaching (and was 3 years older than some of my students 🙃), the realisation that changed everything, and what you actually need to learn to manage behaviour without selling out who you are.
What you’ll learn:
- Why being kind and credible aren’t opposites (and how to be both)
- The truth behind “don’t smile until Easter” and why it failed me
- Why your teaching presence matters more than your personality
- How to balance warmth with boundaries (without burning out)
- The missing skillset that makes behaviour management sustainable
Resources mentioned:
- Learn more about the Behaviour Club: https://the-unteachables.com/tbc
- My episode on non-verbals & credible/approachable presence: #135: Is your teaching presence undermining your classroom management?
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
RESOURCES AND MORE SUPPORT:
- Shop all resources
- Join The Behaviour Club
- My book! It’s Never Just About the Behaviour: A holistic approach to classroom behaviour management
- The Low-Level Behaviour Bootcamp
- Free guide: 'Chats that Create Change'
Connect with me:
- Follow on Instagram @the.unteachables
- Check out my website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Oh, hi there, teachers.
Welcome to the Unteachablespodcast.
I'm your host, claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, lovely teacher, andwelcome back to the Unteachables
podcast.
It is an absolute joy to haveyou here.
Thank you for listening along.
If you're a first time listener, welcome.
My name's Claire.
I am the one woman show behindthe Unteachables Academy and the
(01:07):
Unteachables podcast, obviously, and the work we do here is
just all about just demystifyingclassroom management and making
it something that is doable,something that aligns with our
values, something that isn'tlike the other PD that just says
, hey, build a relationship andyou'll be sweet.
Or here's another chat aboutrestorative practice.
Even though restorativepractice is great, I align
(01:29):
myself with that.
However, we're just told tohave a chat with our students
and things are magically goingto change.
I want to flip all of that onits head and actually just hand
over the things that you can doin your classroom, things that
you can control, things that areactually going to move the
needle when it comes toclassroom management.
(01:49):
Make you feel more in controland I don't mean in control of
your students, I mean in controlof your practice, in control of
your classroom space, incontrol of yourself, because, in
reality, the only thing that wecan do when it comes to
classroom management andbehavior are the things that we
can control.
We can't change anybody'sbehavior.
(02:09):
All we can do is try toinfluence it through what we do
as individual humans.
We're not superheroes.
We can just do what we can do.
So if you're new here andyou're not sure about my vibe,
I'm just you know all about hey,let's do this trauma-informed
thing, this restorative thing.
Let's show up as empathetic,compassionate, wonderful, kind,
(02:32):
caring teachers, but let's do soin a way that still holds
boundaries and is actionable andis empowering and actually
changes things in our practice.
So, yes, all of the things, allof the values, all of the
wonderful, lovely things that Ibring here, but you're here for
the nitty gritty and the whatcan we actually do?
(02:53):
I'm your girl for that, ifyou're listening along and going
.
Yes, yes, yes, that sounds likea bit of me this episode here.
I don't know if you can tell ornot, but usually I have a bit
of a plan.
I have like dot points and Ihave, like you know, a general
idea of what I want to talkabout.
Today is a little bit different.
I'm going to be riffing it off.
I'm going to be doing it alittle bit more casually because
(03:16):
there are a couple of thingsthat have popped up for me that
I really just wanted to talkabout.
The big thing that I wanted totalk about this week was okay.
Let me just backtrack for asecond.
So at the moment, I have openedup enrollments for my community
, the behavior club.
Inside of the behavior club Ihave training and resources and,
you know, mentorship.
People come in and chat to meabout things, ask me questions.
It really is just the space tocome for all of the classroom
(03:40):
management goodness Like so is.
This is this podcast, but witheverything else that you need to
kind of back that up um, thetraining, the resources, you
know, the actual one-to-onesupport, that kind of stuff.
Insight.
I just wanted to give you a bitof context If it's the first
time you've ever listened to me.
Like, you know what is theBehaviClub?
People have come into theBehaviClub more frequently this
month because I have opened upenrollments for the first time
(04:01):
in a little while and they havebeen introducing themselves and
saying hello and one of thethings that I do when people
join the BehaviClub is send anemail out and say hey, like,
reply back to this email and letme know why you're here.
Like you know what's broughtyou into my kind of world.
What are you hoping to get outof the BehaviClub?
And I've had, you know,obviously, a lot more people
joining because I've opened upenrollment again.
(04:23):
And there is one solid themefrom so many of my behavior
clubbers that are joining and itis I just don't know how to
balance being myself, which issomebody who wants to be really
understanding of my students andkind and compassionate and warm
and empathetic.
I don't know how to balancethat with then going into the
(04:45):
classroom and getting respectfrom my students or being
listened to or being, you know,taken seriously in the classroom
.
I have a lot of people alsosaying that, you know, when they
seek support around classroommanagement, they're told that
they're not, like, strong enough, that they're too soft or
they're not strict enough.
(05:06):
They need to be, you know,firmer and raising their voice
and, you know, really drawing ahard line, and that is just the
common theme.
I see through so many of thepeople that join me inside of
the Pavey Club, so many of youbeautiful teachers.
The reason I want to talk aboutit today is because I wanted to
do kind of like a I'm tellingyou if I'm getting this from the
people who have just joined thebehavior club.
(05:27):
I know that there are.
I have thousands upon thousandsof you listening every single
week to these podcast episodes.
I know that if I have a hundredpeople joining the behavior
club and that is the commontheme that is, you know, through
so many of them that arejoining I know that there are so
many of you out there who arefeeling this exact same way.
(05:47):
Maybe you're feeling defeated byit, or depleted or just really
stuck and unsure where to moveforward from here.
Maybe, like me and I'll tellyou a story about when I first
started teaching in a second,that's where I'm going with this
podcast episode but maybe, justlike me, you were feeling like,
okay, maybe I do need to changemy personality, maybe I do need
(06:08):
to do things differently, anddoubting yourself and doubting
the teacher that you are or havebeen.
Or maybe you're looking at acolleague down the hall and
they've got all the studentsthere and they're sitting in
their rows and you know thestudents are listening to them
and respecting them and they'rereally harsh with their students
.
So maybe you need to do thesame thing, maybe you need to
emulate that.
That's what this podcastepisode is about in a nutshell.
(06:30):
So I would like to just kind oftake you back 15 years to the
teacher that I was and still am,but where I was right in the
beginning, because I'll tell youwhen I finally got my own
classroom, when I finally got myown classes and I am English
trained and I don't know ifanybody kind of relates to this,
(06:51):
but in Australia at the time wedidn't have the teacher
shortage that we have now.
When I first started teaching,there were no positions in
secondary English, so I had tokind of do a mixture of a bunch
of different things.
So I had to do like a bit ofhistory, a bit of geography, a
bit of English.
So I felt like out of my depthto begin with.
Regardless of that, I wasincredibly excited to have my
(07:13):
own classroom, my own class.
I was just so ready to connectwith my students, to teach my
students, to try to make animpact, to be the teacher that I
needed when I was at school andI'm sure some of you out there
can relate to that as well Justreally wanting to be that
teacher that you know saw beyondthe behaviors and saw the
student in front of me as awhole child, not just, you know,
(07:36):
a lesson machine that can justpump through work.
Like I was really excited to bethat teacher and in my head I
had this, like I guess we all doat some point or another we
have like this expectation ofthings and how they're going to
be when we're a teacher and wethink, okay, well, the students
are really going to respond wellto me because I care about them
.
They're going to respond wellto me, because they'll see that
(07:56):
I care about them and I'll talkto them on their level.
And, mind you, I was like 22years old as well, so I was like
three years older than some ofmy older secondary students.
So it was a bit of an uphillbattle to begin with.
Anyway, that's beside the pointI really didn't think that I
would have challenges withclassroom management in the way
(08:18):
that I had the challenges that Idid with classroom management.
I thought I was, you know, like, you know, when you're a young
teacher, like, oh, I'm going tobe kick-ass and I'm going to go
in there and I'm going to beawesome, and anyway, I was very
naive and that was definitelynot what happened to me when I
first stepped into my ownclassroom.
When I was going into theclassroom, I had, you know, my
(08:40):
English colleagues around thetable and a lot more experience
than me.
And one of them said to me okay, claire, you ready.
You know, like, just rememberthe old rule don't smile before
Easter.
And I was like, oh, I don'twant to do that.
And again, naive me was like,nah, not listening to anything,
like I know exactly who I am asa person, I know exactly the
(09:02):
kind of teacher that I neededwhen I was at school.
I'm going to go in there and Iam going to smile like crazy and
I'm just going to be warm andopen and just myself, of course.
Then I failed at the advice ofsmiling before like not smiling
before Easter and I wentbrilliantly and the rest is
history.
(09:22):
No, that's not the case.
I was completely walked allover in a way that I was not
expecting.
I was not listened to.
I spent most of the lesson justbeing spoken over.
I wasn't able to get theirattention.
I just did not know what theheck I was doing.
And of course then I spiraled,like of course, in my head.
I was like, oh my gosh, it'sbecause I'm not strict enough, I
(09:45):
am being too friendly, and, ohmy gosh, I smiled before Easter
the cardinal teaching sin.
So of course I'm going to havereally bad classroom management.
I don't know how to manage myclass and I just completely
spiraled.
So of course I then thoughtmaybe I'm not supposed to be
that teacher that's warm andwelcoming, and maybe I do need
(10:05):
to be someone who's strict andbe someone who's really stony
faced, and that's cold.
And so because when we'reinexperienced or aren't a
hundred percent sure what we dois we mix up the idea of
credibility and coldness.
Those two aren't the same thing.
And now, of course, I know thatand I teach other people that.
(10:26):
But I wiped that smile off myface and I, you know, tried to
become more detached and I wasdoing things that the other
teachers were doing like crosseson the board and like I just
became a teacher that I didn'twant to be and it didn't work.
Of course, my classroommanagement was still horrible.
(10:46):
I still sucked at it.
Because now what I realize, ofcourse, is that it has nothing
to do with me smiling.
It has nothing to do with mebeing this cold, cold person, or
it has nothing to do with mebeing a kind and bubbly and
happy person.
And it was many, many, manymore years before I came to
(11:06):
realize this.
But it isn't about being toostrict, it's not about being too
nice, it's not about beinganything in between.
That.
It's about us.
It's a skill.
It's a skill that needs to betaught and learned to teachers
that are going into theprofession.
That is about us strategicallybalancing our non-verbal
presence.
It's about being credible whenwe need to be.
(11:27):
It's about being approachablewhen appropriate.
And when I spoke before aboutlike the credible and being cold
still now, like I've gotteachers that I coach through
this where they're like okay,I'm trying really hard to be
credible but I don't feel like,I don't feel comfortable doing
this because I feel like I'mbeing cold and I'm being harsh
and I'm being reallydisconnected.
(11:48):
That's not what it is.
You can be credible and stillbe smiling.
You can be credible and stillbe having a really beautiful
conversation with your studentsand facilitating a really lovely
class discussion.
You can be credible and do allof those things and then switch
into being more casual and moreapproachable in a different
moment of that lesson, in thesame lesson.
(12:08):
And it is something that takesskill and practice and you know
it's something that you canlearn and hardwire as a part of
your practice.
And I just don't understandwhere we've gotten to the point
as teachers where we just aren'tbeing taught that and we're
instead being told don't smileuntil Christmas or don't smile
(12:29):
until Easter, wherever you arein the world.
It's, you know, one term in youcan't smile because you'll be
walked all over.
I don't understand how we'vegotten to that as a society when
we're working with 30 youngpeople in a room, a lot of them
very vulnerable young people.
We're in the middle of a youthmental health crisis where I
think I can't remember the statson the top of my head now I
remember I'm just roofing thisoff.
(12:50):
I haven't got notes in front ofme.
I did a podcast episode aboutit, about I don't know, maybe
six weeks ago, so go back andlisten to that one.
But the statistics at themoment, with students having
severe depressive or anxietysymptoms and not being ready to
learn, it is just stark and it'sscary.
So I don't know how we've gottento a place where we're still
(13:11):
teaching young, inexperiencedteachers or we're still
believing it as older teacherswho've not been taught anything
different that we can't be warmand compassionate and, you know,
kind and connected in aclassroom and not be taken
seriously Like.
I think we need to change thatrhetoric because it's so, so
(13:33):
wrong.
This is what allows us thatbalance between credible and
approachable.
This is what allows us tobalance these and develop these
beautiful bonds and be warm andcompassionate, but then we're
simultaneously being aneffective teacher and
reinforcing the expectations andboundaries that our students
need to feel safe and to learn,but unfortunately, that's not
(13:54):
what the rhetoric is.
The rhetoric is geared towardsus needing to go into the
classroom and crowd control andbe nasty, when classroom
management should be incrediblyintuitive and it should be
incredibly human.
If you are listening out thereand you're a really empathetic
human being, of course you'rethen going to be an empathetic
teacher, and classroommanagement should work with your
(14:16):
empathetic nature.
We're in a caring professionand we should be able to show up
as our beautiful, empatheticselves.
That don't have to be harsh orcold or strict or punitive in
order to connect with ourstudents is a deeply human
profession.
You're never too kind.
(14:37):
There's no such thing as beingtoo kind, lacking boundaries or
not following through withboundaries, yes, but that's not.
That does not connect withbeing kind.
You just need to know how touse your kindness and your
empathetic nature as a strength.
But I really wanted to talkabout that in today's podcast
episode and just remind youwhoever's out there listening,
that's like oh my gosh, I keepgetting told that I'm not enough
(14:58):
, or I'm not strict enough, orI'm not a certain way, so I'm
not able to be a strong teacherin the classroom.
How am I going to show up as astrong teacher and still align
with my values?
Or do I just have to be in thisinnately caring, human
profession in front of these 30kids at a time who, I know for a
fact, are struggling with youknow things?
(15:21):
Just being a child and being,you know, a teenager in today's
society is so hard.
We're standing in front ofthese young people and, instead
of being able to connect withthem, we're being told the
opposite.
Otherwise, we're what?
Going to lose control of theroom.
It is just not the case.
If you want to learn more aboutthe non-verbals that we use and
the credible and approachable,I've got a few podcast episodes
(15:43):
about that as well, so I willlink them down in the show notes
so you can go there and learn,cause I don't know if you, if
you haven't listened to thispodcast before, you're probably
like what is she going on about?
Credible, approachable, bodylanguage, non-verbals.
It is like the bread and butterwhat I teach when it comes to
like teaching presence, and itcomes from Michael Grinder's
Envoy.
I just it is brilliant.
(16:04):
It is like a magic behaviorbutton, like I know that doesn't
exist, but if there was one, itis the closest thing to that
and it's something that allowsus to just be aligned with who
we are as people in the samebreath as being able to be
really effective teachers.
I hope this is aligning withsomebody out there.
I hope I'm, because I'm notused to just riffing it off
(16:25):
without at least a few bulletpoints.
I'm like am I just going off ona million tangents?
Anyway, if you did resonatewith this episode and you're
like Claire, yes, I've listenedto your podcast episodes.
This is bloody brilliant and Ijust want to work more closely
with you.
I just want to hold my hand outand invite you one last time
for this year, for 2025, intothe behavior club.
(16:48):
The behavior club is mymembership for upper primary
secondary teachers who just wantto get really great at
classroom management in a waythat feels good, that doesn't
burn them out, that just youknow, it feels really authentic
for you.
All of the actionable stuffthat we should be teach, like
you know, taught when we'regoing into the professional, the
stuff that I wish that I hadwhen I went into the profession.
(17:09):
It's got all of the resources,the community.
It's like walking into a lovelystaff room of like-minded,
fellow, empathetic,compassionate, beautiful
teachers who are just willing tolend a hand, to give advice.
I'll be there mentoring you aswell, pointing you in the right
direction, anything you'restruggling with.
I've probably got a Netflixstyle kind of training on demand
(17:30):
that you can go in and bingethat whenever you need to.
It is just such.
I'm so proud of the behaviorclub and the space that this has
become.
It is.
It's brilliant, it's beautifuland, yeah, I guess that's all
I'll say about that.
That's all I need to say.
Just come and join the behaviorclub if that aligned with you
and you would love to join thisbeautiful community of teachers
(17:53):
who are transforming theirpractice without sacrificing
their values, without being toldto just build a relationship or
to just be stricter or to just,you know, use more consequences
or whatever you're being toldat the moment.
That is not our vibe.
We are all about the action andthe things that actually work.
So memberships are closing for2025.
(18:13):
This is the last time that Iwill be reaching my hand out for
that invitation.
If you want to know if you'rethe right fit, if you're still
like, not too sure, I'll pop thelink in the show notes.
Just click that link and headover to the page If we're not
open.
When you listen to this, popyour name on the wait list so
you'll be the first to know whenwe are back open for new
beautiful teacher enrollments.
(18:34):
And I guess I'll just leave itthere.
But a final reminder for thisepisode you are never too kind,
you are never too compassionateor empathetic.
It is just about learning theskills and the strategies to
work with your beautifulpersonality and not against it.
Okay, lovely teacher, untilnext time.
(18:55):
By the way, if you love thispodcast, please leave me a
review, or please make sureyou're subscribed so you get all
of the new episodes.
If you leave a review, it justhelps me reach more teachers who
are just like you, who deservethat support, deserve to be able
to just get access to somestrategies that are going to
start to shift things, becausewe can really get in this funk
(19:20):
as teachers where things feelreally hopeless.
I've been stuck in that pit ofhopelessness more times than I
can count and it does just takeone thing sometimes for us to
pull us out of that state ofhopelessness and action one
thing and see something change.
So I would just absolutely loveto be able to reach as many
teachers as possible who arestruggling in the classroom, and
(19:43):
if that's you, I'm so gladyou've found this space.
So leave me a review, if youcould.
That would be just so wonderful, and I shall see you next week
in the same place.
Bye for now.
Oh, hi there, teachers.
Welcome to the Unteachablespodcast.
I'm your host, claire English,and I am just a fellow teacher,
a toddler mama and a big oldbehavior nerd on a mission to
demystify and simplify thatlittle thing called classroom
management.
The way we've all been taughtto manage behavior and classroom
manage has left us playingcrowd control, which is not
(00:22):
something I subscribe to,because we're not bouncers,
we're teachers.
So listen in as I walk youthrough the game, changing
strategies and I mean the thingsthat we can actually do and
action in our classrooms thatwill allow you to lean into your
beautiful values as acompassionate educator and feel
empowered to run your room witha little more calm and, dare I
(00:43):
say it, a lot less chaos.
I will see you in the episode.
Hello, lovely teacher, andwelcome back to the Unteachables
podcast.
It is an absolute joy to haveyou here.
Thank you for listening along.
If you're a first time listener, welcome.
My name's Claire.
I am the one woman show behindthe Unteachables Academy and the
(01:07):
Unteachables podcast, obviously, and the work we do here is
just all about just demystifyingclassroom management and making
it something that is doable,something that aligns with our
values, something that isn'tlike the other PD that just says
, hey, build a relationship andyou'll be sweet.
Or here's another chat aboutrestorative practice.
Even though restorativepractice is great, I align
(01:29):
myself with that.
However, we're just told tohave a chat with our students
and things are magically goingto change.
I want to flip all of that onits head and actually just hand
over the things that you can doin your classroom, things that
you can control, things that areactually going to move the
needle when it comes toclassroom management.
(01:49):
Make you feel more in controland I don't mean in control of
your students, I mean in controlof your practice, in control of
your classroom space, incontrol of yourself, because, in
reality, the only thing that wecan do when it comes to
classroom management andbehavior are the things that we
can control.
We can't change anybody'sbehavior.
(02:09):
All we can do is try toinfluence it through what we do
as individual humans.
We're not superheroes.
We can just do what we can do.
So if you're new here andyou're not sure about my vibe,
I'm just you know all about hey,let's do this trauma-informed
thing, this restorative thing.
Let's show up as empathetic,compassionate, wonderful, kind,
(02:32):
caring teachers, but let's do soin a way that still holds
boundaries and is actionable andis empowering and actually
changes things in our practice.
So, yes, all of the things, allof the values, all of the
wonderful, lovely things that Ibring here, but you're here for
the nitty gritty and the whatcan we actually do?
(02:53):
I'm your girl for that, ifyou're listening along and going
.
Yes, yes, yes, that sounds likea bit of me this episode here.
I don't know if you can tell ornot, but usually I have a bit
of a plan.
I have like dot points and Ihave, like you know, a general
idea of what I want to talkabout.
Today is a little bit different.
I'm going to be riffing it off.
I'm going to be doing it alittle bit more casually because
(03:16):
there are a couple of thingsthat have popped up for me that
I really just wanted to talkabout.
The big thing that I wanted totalk about this week was okay.
Let me just backtrack for asecond.
So at the moment, I have openedup enrollments for my community
, the behavior club.
Inside of the behavior club Ihave training and resources and,
you know, mentorship.
People come in and chat to meabout things, ask me questions.
It really is just the space tocome for all of the classroom
(03:40):
management goodness Like so is.
This is this podcast, but witheverything else that you need to
kind of back that up um, thetraining, the resources, you
know, the actual one-to-onesupport, that kind of stuff.
Insight.
I just wanted to give you a bitof context If it's the first
time you've ever listened to me.
Like, you know what is theBehaviClub?
People have come into theBehaviClub more frequently this
month because I have opened upenrollments for the first time
(04:01):
in a little while and they havebeen introducing themselves and
saying hello and one of thethings that I do when people
join the BehaviClub is send anemail out and say hey, like,
reply back to this email and letme know why you're here.
Like you know what's broughtyou into my kind of world.
What are you hoping to get outof the BehaviClub?
And I've had, you know,obviously, a lot more people
joining because I've opened upenrollment again.
(04:23):
And there is one solid themefrom so many of my behavior
clubbers that are joining and itis I just don't know how to
balance being myself, which issomebody who wants to be really
understanding of my students andkind and compassionate and warm
and empathetic.
I don't know how to balancethat with then going into the
(04:45):
classroom and getting respectfrom my students or being
listened to or being, you know,taken seriously in the classroom
.
I have a lot of people alsosaying that, you know, when they
seek support around classroommanagement, they're told that
they're not, like, strong enough, that they're too soft or
they're not strict enough.
(05:06):
They need to be, you know,firmer and raising their voice
and, you know, really drawing ahard line, and that is just the
common theme.
I see through so many of thepeople that join me inside of
the Pavey Club, so many of youbeautiful teachers.
The reason I want to talk aboutit today is because I wanted to
do kind of like a I'm tellingyou if I'm getting this from the
people who have just joined thebehavior club.
(05:27):
I know that there are.
I have thousands upon thousandsof you listening every single
week to these podcast episodes.
I know that if I have a hundredpeople joining the behavior
club and that is the commontheme that is, you know, through
so many of them that arejoining I know that there are so
many of you out there who arefeeling this exact same way.
(05:47):
Maybe you're feeling defeated byit, or depleted or just really
stuck and unsure where to moveforward from here.
Maybe, like me and I'll tellyou a story about when I first
started teaching in a second,that's where I'm going with this
podcast episode but maybe, justlike me, you were feeling like,
okay, maybe I do need to changemy personality, maybe I do need
(06:08):
to do things differently, anddoubting yourself and doubting
the teacher that you are or havebeen.
Or maybe you're looking at acolleague down the hall and
they've got all the studentsthere and they're sitting in
their rows and you know thestudents are listening to them
and respecting them and they'rereally harsh with their students
.
So maybe you need to do thesame thing, maybe you need to
emulate that.
That's what this podcastepisode is about in a nutshell.
(06:30):
So I would like to just kind oftake you back 15 years to the
teacher that I was and still am,but where I was right in the
beginning, because I'll tell youwhen I finally got my own
classroom, when I finally got myown classes and I am English
trained and I don't know ifanybody kind of relates to this,
(06:51):
but in Australia at the time wedidn't have the teacher
shortage that we have now.
When I first started teaching,there were no positions in
secondary English, so I had tokind of do a mixture of a bunch
of different things.
So I had to do like a bit ofhistory, a bit of geography, a
bit of English.
So I felt like out of my depthto begin with.
Regardless of that, I wasincredibly excited to have my
(07:13):
own classroom, my own class.
I was just so ready to connectwith my students, to teach my
students, to try to make animpact, to be the teacher that I
needed when I was at school andI'm sure some of you out there
can relate to that as well Justreally wanting to be that
teacher that you know saw beyondthe behaviors and saw the
student in front of me as awhole child, not just, you know,
(07:36):
a lesson machine that can justpump through work.
Like I was really excited to bethat teacher and in my head I
had this, like I guess we all doat some point or another we
have like this expectation ofthings and how they're going to
be when we're a teacher and wethink, okay, well, the students
are really going to respond wellto me because I care about them
.
They're going to respond wellto me, because they'll see that
(07:56):
I care about them and I'll talkto them on their level.
And, mind you, I was like 22years old as well, so I was like
three years older than some ofmy older secondary students.
So it was a bit of an uphillbattle to begin with.
Anyway, that's beside the pointI really didn't think that I
would have challenges withclassroom management in the way
(08:18):
that I had the challenges that Idid with classroom management.
I thought I was, you know, like, you know, when you're a young
teacher, like, oh, I'm going tobe kick-ass and I'm going to go
in there and I'm going to beawesome, and anyway, I was very
naive and that was definitelynot what happened to me when I
first stepped into my ownclassroom.
When I was going into theclassroom, I had, you know, my
(08:40):
English colleagues around thetable and a lot more experience
than me.
And one of them said to me okay, claire, you ready.
You know, like, just rememberthe old rule don't smile before
Easter.
And I was like, oh, I don'twant to do that.
And again, naive me was like,nah, not listening to anything,
like I know exactly who I am asa person, I know exactly the
(09:02):
kind of teacher that I neededwhen I was at school.
I'm going to go in there and Iam going to smile like crazy and
I'm just going to be warm andopen and just myself, of course.
Then I failed at the advice ofsmiling before like not smiling
before Easter and I wentbrilliantly and the rest is
history.
(09:22):
No, that's not the case.
I was completely walked allover in a way that I was not
expecting.
I was not listened to.
I spent most of the lesson justbeing spoken over.
I wasn't able to get theirattention.
I just did not know what theheck I was doing.
And of course then I spiraled,like of course, in my head.
I was like, oh my gosh, it'sbecause I'm not strict enough, I
(09:45):
am being too friendly, and, ohmy gosh, I smiled before Easter
the cardinal teaching sin.
So of course I'm going to havereally bad classroom management.
I don't know how to manage myclass and I just completely
spiraled.
So of course I then thoughtmaybe I'm not supposed to be
that teacher that's warm andwelcoming, and maybe I do need
(10:05):
to be someone who's strict andbe someone who's really stony
faced, and that's cold.
And so because when we'reinexperienced or aren't a
hundred percent sure what we dois we mix up the idea of
credibility and coldness.
Those two aren't the same thing.
And now, of course, I know thatand I teach other people that.
(10:26):
But I wiped that smile off myface and I, you know, tried to
become more detached and I wasdoing things that the other
teachers were doing like crosseson the board and like I just
became a teacher that I didn'twant to be and it didn't work.
Of course, my classroommanagement was still horrible.
(10:46):
I still sucked at it.
Because now what I realize, ofcourse, is that it has nothing
to do with me smiling.
It has nothing to do with mebeing this cold, cold person, or
it has nothing to do with mebeing a kind and bubbly and
happy person.
And it was many, many, manymore years before I came to
(11:06):
realize this.
But it isn't about being toostrict, it's not about being too
nice, it's not about beinganything in between.
That.
It's about us.
It's a skill.
It's a skill that needs to betaught and learned to teachers
that are going into theprofession.
That is about us strategicallybalancing our non-verbal
presence.
It's about being credible whenwe need to be.
(11:27):
It's about being approachablewhen appropriate.
And when I spoke before aboutlike the credible and being cold
still now, like I've gotteachers that I coach through
this where they're like okay,I'm trying really hard to be
credible but I don't feel like,I don't feel comfortable doing
this because I feel like I'mbeing cold and I'm being harsh
and I'm being reallydisconnected.
(11:48):
That's not what it is.
You can be credible and stillbe smiling.
You can be credible and stillbe having a really beautiful
conversation with your studentsand facilitating a really lovely
class discussion.
You can be credible and do allof those things and then switch
into being more casual and moreapproachable in a different
moment of that lesson, in thesame lesson.
(12:08):
And it is something that takesskill and practice and you know
it's something that you canlearn and hardwire as a part of
your practice.
And I just don't understandwhere we've gotten to the point
as teachers where we just aren'tbeing taught that and we're
instead being told don't smileuntil Christmas or don't smile
(12:29):
until Easter, wherever you arein the world.
It's, you know, one term in youcan't smile because you'll be
walked all over.
I don't understand how we'vegotten to that as a society when
we're working with 30 youngpeople in a room, a lot of them
very vulnerable young people.
We're in the middle of a youthmental health crisis where I
think I can't remember the statson the top of my head now I
remember I'm just roofing thisoff.
(12:50):
I haven't got notes in front ofme.
I did a podcast episode aboutit, about I don't know, maybe
six weeks ago, so go back andlisten to that one.
But the statistics at themoment, with students having
severe depressive or anxietysymptoms and not being ready to
learn, it is just stark and it'sscary.
So I don't know how we've gottento a place where we're still
(13:11):
teaching young, inexperiencedteachers or we're still
believing it as older teacherswho've not been taught anything
different that we can't be warmand compassionate and, you know,
kind and connected in aclassroom and not be taken
seriously Like.
I think we need to change thatrhetoric because it's so, so
(13:33):
wrong.
This is what allows us thatbalance between credible and
approachable.
This is what allows us tobalance these and develop these
beautiful bonds and be warm andcompassionate, but then we're
simultaneously being aneffective teacher and
reinforcing the expectations andboundaries that our students
need to feel safe and to learn,but unfortunately, that's not
(13:54):
what the rhetoric is.
The rhetoric is geared towardsus needing to go into the
classroom and crowd control andbe nasty, when classroom
management should be incrediblyintuitive and it should be
incredibly human.
If you are listening out thereand you're a really empathetic
human being, of course you'rethen going to be an empathetic
teacher, and classroommanagement should work with your
(14:16):
empathetic nature.
We're in a caring professionand we should be able to show up
as our beautiful, empatheticselves.
That don't have to be harsh orcold or strict or punitive in
order to connect with ourstudents is a deeply human
profession.
You're never too kind.
(14:37):
There's no such thing as beingtoo kind, lacking boundaries or
not following through withboundaries, yes, but that's not.
That does not connect withbeing kind.
You just need to know how touse your kindness and your
empathetic nature as a strength.
But I really wanted to talkabout that in today's podcast
episode and just remind youwhoever's out there listening,
that's like oh my gosh, I keepgetting told that I'm not enough
(14:58):
, or I'm not strict enough, orI'm not a certain way, so I'm
not able to be a strong teacherin the classroom.
How am I going to show up as astrong teacher and still align
with my values?
Or do I just have to be in thisinnately caring, human
profession in front of these 30kids at a time who, I know for a
fact, are struggling with youknow things?
(15:21):
Just being a child and being,you know, a teenager in today's
society is so hard.
We're standing in front ofthese young people and, instead
of being able to connect withthem, we're being told the
opposite.
Otherwise, we're what?
Going to lose control of theroom.
It is just not the case.
If you want to learn more aboutthe non-verbals that we use and
the credible and approachable,I've got a few podcast episodes
(15:43):
about that as well, so I willlink them down in the show notes
so you can go there and learn,cause I don't know if you, if
you haven't listened to thispodcast before, you're probably
like what is she going on about?
Credible, approachable, bodylanguage, non-verbals.
It is like the bread and butterwhat I teach when it comes to
like teaching presence, and itcomes from Michael Grinder's
Envoy.
I just it is brilliant.
(16:04):
It is like a magic behaviorbutton, like I know that doesn't
exist, but if there was one, itis the closest thing to that
and it's something that allowsus to just be aligned with who
we are as people in the samebreath as being able to be
really effective teachers.
I hope this is aligning withsomebody out there.
I hope I'm, because I'm notused to just riffing it off
(16:25):
without at least a few bulletpoints.
I'm like am I just going off ona million tangents?
Anyway, if you did resonatewith this episode and you're
like Claire, yes, I've listenedto your podcast episodes.
This is bloody brilliant and Ijust want to work more closely
with you.
I just want to hold my hand outand invite you one last time
for this year, for 2025, intothe behavior club.
(16:48):
The behavior club is mymembership for upper primary
secondary teachers who just wantto get really great at
classroom management in a waythat feels good, that doesn't
burn them out, that just youknow, it feels really authentic
for you.
All of the actionable stuffthat we should be teach, like
you know, taught when we'regoing into the professional, the
stuff that I wish that I hadwhen I went into the profession.
(17:09):
It's got all of the resources,the community.
It's like walking into a lovelystaff room of like-minded,
fellow, empathetic,compassionate, beautiful
teachers who are just willing tolend a hand, to give advice.
I'll be there mentoring you aswell, pointing you in the right
direction, anything you'restruggling with.
I've probably got a Netflixstyle kind of training on demand
(17:30):
that you can go in and bingethat whenever you need to.
It is just such.
I'm so proud of the behaviorclub and the space that this has
become.
It is.
It's brilliant, it's beautifuland, yeah, I guess that's all
I'll say about that.
That's all I need to say.
Just come and join the behaviorclub if that aligned with you
and you would love to join thisbeautiful community of teachers
(17:53):
who are transforming theirpractice without sacrificing
their values, without being toldto just build a relationship or
to just be stricter or to just,you know, use more consequences
or whatever you're being toldat the moment.
That is not our vibe.
We are all about the action andthe things that actually work.
So memberships are closing for2025.
(18:13):
This is the last time that Iwill be reaching my hand out for
that invitation.
If you want to know if you'rethe right fit, if you're still
like, not too sure, I'll pop thelink in the show notes.
Just click that link and headover to the page If we're not
open.
When you listen to this, popyour name on the wait list so
you'll be the first to know whenwe are back open for new
beautiful teacher enrollments.
(18:34):
And I guess I'll just leave itthere.
But a final reminder for thisepisode you are never too kind,
you are never too compassionateor empathetic.
It is just about learning theskills and the strategies to
work with your beautifulpersonality and not against it.
Okay, lovely teacher, untilnext time.
(18:55):
By the way, if you love thispodcast, please leave me a
review, or please make sureyou're subscribed so you get all
of the new episodes.
If you leave a review, it justhelps me reach more teachers who
are just like you, who deservethat support, deserve to be able
to just get access to somestrategies that are going to
start to shift things, becausewe can really get in this funk
(19:20):
as teachers where things feelreally hopeless.
I've been stuck in that pit ofhopelessness more times than I
can count and it does just takeone thing sometimes for us to
pull us out of that state ofhopelessness and action one
thing and see something change.
So I would just absolutely loveto be able to reach as many
teachers as possible who arestruggling in the classroom, and
(19:43):
if that's you, I'm so gladyou've found this space.
So leave me a review, if youcould.
That would be just so wonderful, and I shall see you next week
in the same place.
Bye for now.
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