In this episode, I’m diving into one of THE most transformative strategies for managing low-level disruptions—almost like flipping a switch. I'll explore how your teaching presence, especially through non-verbal communication, can significantly shift classroom behaviour. It’s not about doing one thing—it’s about everything you do.
Listen in as I discuss:
- What even is a strong teaching presence?
- Understanding the power of non-verbal communication in classroom management
- The difference between "credible" and "approachable" teacher presence and when to use each
- How small changes in body language, tone, and stillness can immediately impact behavior
- Practical examples of adjusting your teaching style for better student engagement
- The importance of aligning your body language with the expectations you set for students
This episode is packed with actionable strategies that can transform how you manage your classroom. If you’re tired of the constant chatter and low-level disruptions, listen in as I share the non-verbal techniques that changed everything for me—and they can for you too!
Join the Low Level Behaviour Bootcamp and get 20% off with the code PODCAST20
Have a question, comment, or just want to say hello? Drop us a text!
RESOURCES AND MORE SUPPORT:
- Shop all resources
- Join The Behaviour Club
- My book! It’s Never Just About the Behaviour: A holistic approach to classroom behaviour management
- The Low-Level Behaviour Bootcamp
- Free guide: 'Chats that Create Change'
Connect with me:
- Follow on Instagram @the.unteachables
- Check out my website
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Oh, hi teachers.
Welcome to Unteachable'spodcast.
Congratulations.
You have just stumbled acrossthe best free professional
development and support youcould ask for.
I'm Claire English, apassionate secondary teacher,
author, teacher mentor andgenerally just a big behavior
nerd, and I created theUnteachable's podcast to
demystify and simplify classroommanagement.
I want this podcast to be thetangible support, community
(00:26):
validation, mentorship, allthose pretty important things
that we need as teachers to beable to walk into our classrooms
feeling empowered and, dare Isay it, happy and thrive,
especially in the face of thesereally tough behaviors.
So ready for some no-nonsense,judgment-free and realistic
classroom management support?
I've got your teacher friend.
Let's do this.
Hello, wonderful teachers,welcome back to another episode
(00:51):
of the Unteachables podcast.
It is so lovely to have youhere.
A couple of episodes ago I spokeabout it was episode 81, if you
want to go and listen to that Ispoke about the three common
mistakes that fuel low leveldisruptions, and I mean like
common common mistakes.
I have observed many, manylessons in my career and these
common mistakes happen almostevery single time.
(01:12):
I observe anybody's lessons, soit was really worth going back
and listening to that episode.
But this episode I wanted totalk about the flip side.
In that episode I do talk aboutsome immediate fixes, but this
episode I really wanted to focuson how to.
It's like the flick of a switchand I would not say that
lightly something that is like aflick of a switch when it comes
(01:35):
to transforming the low leveldisruptions in the room and it
is how we kind of craft ourstrong teaching presence.
What I want to say first isthat it's not just one thing
that we need to do.
It's not one strategynecessarily.
It is everything that we do.
But in this episode I wanted togive you a few nonverbal
(01:56):
nuggets that you could take awaythat really will start to
transform things for you and tostart to craft that teaching
presence.
But yeah, just to caveat thatthere is so much more to it and
it is so much more nuanced thanthis and it's not something that
I can convey in a singlepodcast episode.
I've got a whole course aroundit.
But I really did want to talkabout something that changed my
(02:17):
life as a teacher Again, notsomething that I would say
lightly, but it really didchange my life and it was my
understanding around nonverbalcommunication.
It all came from the Envoytraining that I did and that
sparked it for me and Envoy,which is Michael Grinder's I'll
try to get this righteducational nonverbal yardsticks
(02:38):
, and there's like a reason whyit's called the yardstick thing,
but it was the thing thatsparked for me this kind of aha
moment around.
Oh, my gosh, there is so muchabout classroom management that
I don't know.
There is so much that I'mbringing to the table that I
have no awareness of.
(02:59):
There is so much that I havecontrol over in my classroom
that I had no idea that I hadcontrol over, because I need to
be able to have control overmyself.
So it really became this hugefoundation in my own work that
I've been able to hone and adaptand mesh together with a bunch
of other stuff across differentcontexts and environments.
So it has just beenrevolutionary for me, just even
(03:23):
the idea that nonverbals aresomething that we need to be
super aware of and craft and bestrategic around and to give you
a little bit of insight intothese things and kind of start
your journey around it if youhaven't started that yet, or
strengthen your journey if youhave started that journey.
I want to take you back to Ithink it was my second year of
(03:44):
teaching when I did Envoy and Italk about this story in my book
as well.
So if you have read my book,that's why it might sound
familiar.
In my second year of teaching Ihad you have like six classes,
seven classes, eight classeshowever many classes you have in
secondary but I had two, like Ihad a lot of classes, but these
two classes I'm talking aboutwere at the opposite end of the
spectrum.
(04:04):
I had this year eight classthat was the bottom class and
don't get me started on like thetop and bottom classes and you
know all of that kind of stuff,but I had this year eight class
that was the lowest class onpaper.
And then I had this year 10class that was the top class on
paper.
So naturally, as an Englishteacher I was really excited for
(04:25):
the year 10 class and I wasdreading the year 8 class just a
little bit.
Remember, I was very early inmy career.
I didn't have a lot of skillsand I didn't have a lot of
experience and all the rest ofit.
I was so excited about thisyear 10 class.
I just imagined us sittingthere and talking about
literature and how exciting thebooks were, that we were reading
and you know all of the thingsthat an English teacher would
(04:46):
just froth over.
And I was so excited.
And then they lived up to myexpectations at the very
beginning of the year.
The year 10 class Brilliant, sogreat, it was so exciting, I
was doing such good work withthem.
The year eight class horrible,it was horrific.
I'd go into the go into thestaff room, I'd lay on the floor
my friend Karen, I would callit liquefying We'd sit at the
(05:09):
desk and then we just slowlyjust sink off our chairs onto
the floor, very unprofessionallyduring meetings, might I add,
that's what we do.
We would just be so exhaustedafter classes like this.
But year eight classchallenging.
Year 10 class brilliant.
But then, yeah, for some reasonthings started to swap and I
(05:29):
started to look forward toteaching the year eight class
and I started to dread teachingthe year 10 class.
I'm like what is happening hereand it happened so
incrementally and just subtlythat I just had no idea what had
happened, what had changed.
Did the classes change?
Did like what had gone on hereto make this year 10 class the
(05:50):
class that I absolutely loveteaching that were, on paper,
supposed to be the top class onpaper, supposed to be the
well-behaved class on paper,supposed to be the class that
had the least amount ofclassroom management issues,
with what has made them now morechallenging than the year eight
class.
That was supposed to be theclass that was the most
challenging, that was supposedto be the most disengaged To be
(06:13):
able to explain what washappening in the classroom with
these two classes.
By the way, I was not able toexplain this at the time.
It took me many years to beable to reflect and explain what
was happening in these twoclassrooms, but to be able to
explain that we have tounderstand the nonverbal
approaches that we can flip inbetween when it comes to
teaching our students.
There are two kinds of waysthat we can show up.
(06:35):
There are two kinds of teacherpersonas that we can embody, and
both of these, in teaching,have a very important time and
place.
But it's about balancing them.
I spoke about it in one of myepisodes the pendulum that we
swing between.
I think I spoke about it lastepisode when I was talking about
the teacher quiz.
But there's this pendulum thatwe have to swing between,
(06:56):
between two styles of nonverbalcommunication.
They are the credible style andthe approachable style.
What was happening and I'll gointo them a little bit more in a
second.
But what was happening was thatin the top class, in the year 10
class, because of myexpectations around the students
, because I was treating themdifferently, I was leaning more
(07:19):
on the approachable, I wasleaning more on the friendly,
the casual, the chatty, you know, and they were the top class.
They were super chatty and loudand without me holding those
reins and leading them, theywere just all over the place.
It's not that I wanted to betheir friend, I wanted to just
build rapport and I was superinexperienced in doing this.
(07:39):
And if you listened to the lastepisode as well, you'll know
that I am a dynamic teacher andif you've done that teacher quiz
you'll know.
But I am a dynamic teacher innature.
So I was trying to engage thesestudents through my verbals,
through my voice, throughprojecting that voice, and I was
getting increasingly flusteredand I wasn't able to embody the
(08:02):
calm and the quiet and thecredible to be able to bring
that back in.
So I was very inexperienced indoing that.
But what I was naturally doingwith the year eight class is
because I expect them to be morechallenging.
I was embodying more of thecredible.
Naturally, I was doing this.
I was really trying my verybest in that class, without
(08:25):
knowing this, by the way, so itwasn't perfect, but I was trying
my very best at it.
I was trying to embody more ofa credible persona.
So, for example, and imagine,this is like watching a split
screen on the left-hand side,you've got my year 10 class.
On the right-hand side, you'vegot my year eight class.
Imagine that I'm walking intoboth of these classes.
This is how I would giveinstructions in the approachable
(08:46):
and the credible.
I might've walked into the year10 class and gone hey, everyone
, look up at the board.
I've popped up what you'redoing for the, for the.
Do now for the lesson, jot itdown in your books, and I'm
going to give you three minutesto do that.
I might be leaning against thedesk, I might be walking around
and like saying hello to somestudents.
I am much more approachable inmy body language.
I am much more loose with mymovements.
(09:09):
I'm not embodying a credibleteaching persona.
And now look onto theright-hand side of that split
screen and you'll see me walkinginto my year eight class.
I'm walking straight, I'mwalking slowly.
I'm talking slowly.
I'm talking with less up anddown intonation.
So this is how it sounds likewith my year eight class.
(09:31):
Okay, year eight, if you drawyour attention up to the board,
there's your lesson objectives.
I'm going to give you threeminutes to write those in your
books.
Before we get started, I'll popa timer up on the boards.
I'll be standing there still.
I'll be watching the studentsget started.
I was, and that wasn't perfectbecause I would use a lot less
verbals than that now, but thatis what I was doing with year
(09:53):
eight and I was embodying thecredible.
My movements were slower, myvolume was quieter, my pace in
everything I did was slower,actually.
But not only was that languagedifferent, the intonation was
different.
It wasn't welcoming furtherdiscussion.
It wasn't inviting silliness orplayfulness.
It was steady, it was slow, itwas different.
It wasn't welcoming furtherdiscussion.
It wasn't inviting silliness orplayfulness, it was steady, it
(10:13):
was slow, it was calm.
I was mirroring to my yeareights the vibe that I wanted.
I was mirroring to them.
I am being a credible teacher,whereas with the year 10 class I
was, you know, having a chat.
I wasn't leading that room inthe way that I needed to lead it
.
I was really being approachable.
I was just having a chat, likeI am with you now.
(10:34):
Then, along with the way thatwe say things, what goes along
with this is your actual bodylanguage.
So again, look at that splitscreen.
Look at me with that year 10class.
The approachable teacher isbouncy and bubbly and I use a
lot of open and friendly handmovements.
But then go to the year eightsplit screen.
If you're wanting that calmenvironment that reduces low
(10:56):
level behaviors, you need topractice stillness.
So in that year eight class Iwas steady, I was still.
I was pausing next to the board.
I'd be using my presence aroundthe room and standing behind
certain students.
I was naturally trying my best,without having the actual,
explicit skills to be able to dothis, and I was doing that
(11:18):
because I thought in my mind, ifI give an inch, they'll take a
mile.
So I really need to beboundaried in this classroom.
I was different with them,naturally without being
cognizant of it.
So when I fast forwarded a termand I had utter chaos in my year
10 class, every single lesson,and I was in there bouncing
around hey, everyone, you know,stuff's up on the board.
(11:39):
I was sipping my coffee, I wasflopping around from person to
person and then in my year eightclass, I was handing the page
out of the door go sit down, getset on you do.
Now, when I was getting themstanding up row by row and
sending them out of the room, Iwas embodying the credible in a
way that I didn't realize I wasembodying.
So the second I did thistraining, I remember going, oh
(12:00):
my God, this envoy training.
I remember the penny droppingand going, oh my gosh, this is
what I've been doing, this iswhere I've been going wrong.
And I remember intentionallythen using my non-verbals, with
that year 10 class and the onepivotal moment in my career.
I will never, ever forget thismoment.
I thought, okay, I'm going toline this year 10 class up
outside.
They've never done this before.
(12:21):
We're one term in.
They usually sprint inside,grab whatever chair they want,
sit there, have their energydrinks, talking to each other.
I thought I'm going to changethis.
I need to do somethingdifferent.
So I lined them up outside.
I stood there, I lined them up,I adopted a credible stance, I
adopted a credible voice.
(12:41):
It felt weird, it feltunnatural.
One of the kids even said to meMiss English, what's wrong with
you?
Why are you acting like this?
But very, very quickly, just byme embodying the credible, by
me using my gaze, by me using mypresence, by me using my
stillness, they very, very, veryquickly fell into line with
(13:02):
what I was needing them to do.
I sent them one-to-one into thelesson and, with me saying
barely anything at all, they satdown quieter than I had ever
seen them in my life, just bychanging the way that I was
standing, speaking, waiting andbreathing, like I will never
(13:23):
forget that moment.
Because that was the moment Ithought and I don't want to
swear on this podcast becauseI've kept it clean for 80
something episodes but I thoughtoh, my effing, this is changing
, this is like, this is the nextphase of my career, this is,
this is life changing, this is agame changer in a way that I
never imagined.
So remember, I spoke about thatpendulum, that pendulum between
(13:46):
the approachable and thecredible.
Both are important, and I spokeabout that a little bit on last
week's episode of the podcastas well, when I was talking
about the teacher personas,because, as a dynamic teacher,
my pendulum is always swingingtowards the approachable, when I
needed to be swinging ittowards the middle, where I was
balancing at the right timesstrategically, the times where I
(14:07):
was credible, which is when Ineeded attention, when I needed
students to be workingindependently.
And then the approachable,where I was having a chat with
them, when we were having a morerelaxed activity.
Maybe we're doing a groupactivity, whatever we're doing,
but really balancing those twoteacher non-verbal personas.
That is something that is goingto change the low-level
(14:29):
behaviors that you see in yourclassroom.
But, as I said in the start ofthe episode, it's everything
that we're doing and if theyaren't coming on board, still,
if you're trying theapproachable and the credible
and they're still not coming onboard, it's not because you're
doing anything wrong.
Necessarily.
It's because there's so muchmore to it.
I go into each of these in moredepth and detail and strategy in
my low-level behavior bootcamp,which is currently open for
(14:51):
enrollment if you'd like to join, on top of many other things
that I go into, and I also applythem to three specific roadmaps
.
So setting a class off onindependent work, bringing a
class back from whole classchaos and then putting out
individual spot fires.
But here are a couple ofnuggets.
I obviously can't go throughall of that on the podcast, we'd
be sitting here for three hoursand I wouldn't have the visuals
or the resources or anything toactually get you to hardwire
(15:14):
that properly.
But here is a couple of nuggetsthat really can change the game
for you.
The first is ask yourself and Iask myself this every single
lesson is if things are goingawry.
I always ask myself this iswhat I am asking of my students
right now in alignment with orcontradicting the message I am
(15:39):
sending through my body language, for example and this goes into
the mistakes that I spoke abouttwo episodes ago, those three
big mistakes we all make Because, for example, if you're
expecting your students to bequiet but you're still talking
over them, you're never going toget them to listen to you
because you're sending messagesthat what you're saying isn't
important.
You're sending messages to getthem to listen to you because
you're sending messages thatwhat you're saying isn't
(15:59):
important.
You're sending messages thatit's okay to talk, as you're
reinforcing that for them, andsometimes we really shoot
ourselves in the foot and, bythe way, that is all happening
without you realizing it.
That's not a conscious decisionthat you're making.
Sometimes we shoot ourselves inthe foot by just not mirroring
our expectations and it justtotally undermines our own
efforts.
You could be doing a millionthings right, but you do this
(16:22):
one thing and it could undermineeverything and make things 50
times harder.
You could have the mostbrilliantly planned lesson, you
could have wonderful lessondesign, you could have wonderful
pedagogy in so many other areas, but if you do this one thing,
then it could really undermineall of the wonderful things that
you've done and make thingsvery hard for you.
(16:44):
So please listen to thatepisode a couple of episodes ago
about the mistake, the commonmistakes that we all make in the
classroom, because those littletweaks could even just those
three little tweaks could make ahuge impact in your classroom
management.
The second thing I just want tosay is the pause is important.
I know that sometimes waitingfor complete silence before you
(17:04):
start, even start your lesson,feels like an eternity, but, as
I just said, if you don't waitand you talk over the low level
disruptions, you are givingstudents the message, or sending
the messages, that whateveryou're about to say isn't
important.
They don't need to be a part ofit and it doesn't matter,
especially if it's thosestudents that are sitting up the
back there and they're used tobeing the students who things.
(17:27):
You let things slide, becauseit's such a battle, it's such a
hill that you just don't want todie on.
But pause, wait, be still.
Use that credible stance up,straight looking around the room
, using your gaze, breathe.
Use a hand up and wait foreveryone else to.
You know, pop the hand up aswell if that's your thing.
(17:48):
But eventually they will learnyour nonverbal language and they
will become better at it andthey will know that you're
always holding that boundary.
And if that doesn't work, thenthere are roadmaps that you can
follow to then address thoseindividual students.
But as a general rule, the pauseis so important and not
teaching over the chatter is soimportant.
(18:10):
Honestly, I use these thingsevery single lesson the
approachable and the credible.
I use the pause.
I use the rest of the P's inthe toolbox Every single lesson
and with almost all behaviorslow level, high level,
everything in between.
It is the bread and butter ofhow I address most things and
once you get this in yourarsenal, it is golden.
(18:32):
So please go and try, justbecome really conscious.
Am I being credible or am Ibeing approachable?
What am I embodying in thisclassroom right now?
And once you get that.
It is absolutely transformativefor your practice and I can't
wait to hear you go out in theclassroom and try that and feed
back to me how it's gone.
(18:53):
And if you do want to come andlearn the whole approach, you
can come and join me for myLevel Behavi behavior bootcamp.
I'll drop that link in the shownotes or it's
the-onteachablescom forwardslash LLBB for low-level
behavior bootcamp so you can gohave a look there.
And because you've listenedright to the end of this podcast
, you can get 20% off.
Just use the code podcast20 atcheckout and I'll knock 20% off
(19:17):
your enrollment.
Because I just want to saythank you for being here with me
on the podcast, because ifyou're here listening, that
means that you are absolutelydedicated to changing your
practice and that is notsomething that I take lightly
and I really hope to see youthere and until next week.
Oh, actually I have one littleother announcement.
I'm floating the idea of doinga second podcast episode weekly,
(19:39):
just like a really short fiveminute episode.
I love that.
I say floating the idea ofdoing it.
I'm not floating it with anyoneexcept my own brain.
I'm a one woman, but besides myhusband that does the uh, the
odd video editing every now andagain for my courses, bless you.
So shout out to my husband Ifyou're listening, you're not
listening.
I don't think you choose tolisten to my voice any more than
(20:04):
he has to.
But I don't know what it'sgoing to be called yet or when
it will start, but a five minuteshorty episode that would just
be based around a really quickwin.
So you might see more than justone a week and that will be
very exciting.
We'll see what happens there.
But I just wanted like adifferent episode where I just
did like a really quick win thatyou could take into the
classroom and then apply.
I actually wanted to call itSHIT.
(20:27):
That works, but, as I said,like this is a clean podcast.
I don't know if I want to gothere, but we'll see.
I am vibing that name.
I don't know why I'm stilltalking.
Have a lovely week and I'll seeyou next time.
Oh, hi teachers.
Welcome to Unteachable'spodcast.
Congratulations.
You have just stumbled acrossthe best free professional
development and support youcould ask for.
I'm Claire English, apassionate secondary teacher,
author, teacher mentor andgenerally just a big behavior
nerd, and I created theUnteachable's podcast to
demystify and simplify classroommanagement.
I want this podcast to be thetangible support, community
(00:26):
validation, mentorship, allthose pretty important things
that we need as teachers to beable to walk into our classrooms
feeling empowered and, dare Isay it, happy and thrive,
especially in the face of thesereally tough behaviors.
So ready for some no-nonsense,judgment-free and realistic
classroom management support?
I've got your teacher friend.
Let's do this.
Hello, wonderful teachers,welcome back to another episode
(00:51):
of the Unteachables podcast.
It is so lovely to have youhere.
A couple of episodes ago I spokeabout it was episode 81, if you
want to go and listen to that Ispoke about the three common
mistakes that fuel low leveldisruptions, and I mean like
common common mistakes.
I have observed many, manylessons in my career and these
common mistakes happen almostevery single time.
(01:12):
I observe anybody's lessons, soit was really worth going back
and listening to that episode.
But this episode I wanted totalk about the flip side.
In that episode I do talk aboutsome immediate fixes, but this
episode I really wanted to focuson how to.
It's like the flick of a switchand I would not say that
lightly something that is like aflick of a switch when it comes
(01:35):
to transforming the low leveldisruptions in the room and it
is how we kind of craft ourstrong teaching presence.
What I want to say first isthat it's not just one thing
that we need to do.
It's not one strategynecessarily.
It is everything that we do.
But in this episode I wanted togive you a few nonverbal
(01:56):
nuggets that you could take awaythat really will start to
transform things for you and tostart to craft that teaching
presence.
But yeah, just to caveat thatthere is so much more to it and
it is so much more nuanced thanthis and it's not something that
I can convey in a singlepodcast episode.
I've got a whole course aroundit.
But I really did want to talkabout something that changed my
(02:17):
life as a teacher Again, notsomething that I would say
lightly, but it really didchange my life and it was my
understanding around nonverbalcommunication.
It all came from the Envoytraining that I did and that
sparked it for me and Envoy,which is Michael Grinder's I'll
try to get this righteducational nonverbal yardsticks
(02:38):
, and there's like a reason whyit's called the yardstick thing,
but it was the thing thatsparked for me this kind of aha
moment around.
Oh, my gosh, there is so muchabout classroom management that
I don't know.
There is so much that I'mbringing to the table that I
have no awareness of.
(02:59):
There is so much that I havecontrol over in my classroom
that I had no idea that I hadcontrol over, because I need to
be able to have control overmyself.
So it really became this hugefoundation in my own work that
I've been able to hone and adaptand mesh together with a bunch
of other stuff across differentcontexts and environments.
So it has just beenrevolutionary for me, just even
(03:23):
the idea that nonverbals aresomething that we need to be
super aware of and craft and bestrategic around and to give you
a little bit of insight intothese things and kind of start
your journey around it if youhaven't started that yet, or
strengthen your journey if youhave started that journey.
I want to take you back to Ithink it was my second year of
(03:44):
teaching when I did Envoy and Italk about this story in my book
as well.
So if you have read my book,that's why it might sound
familiar.
In my second year of teaching Ihad you have like six classes,
seven classes, eight classeshowever many classes you have in
secondary but I had two, like Ihad a lot of classes, but these
two classes I'm talking aboutwere at the opposite end of the
spectrum.
(04:04):
I had this year eight classthat was the bottom class and
don't get me started on like thetop and bottom classes and you
know all of that kind of stuff,but I had this year eight class
that was the lowest class onpaper.
And then I had this year 10class that was the top class on
paper.
So naturally, as an Englishteacher I was really excited for
(04:25):
the year 10 class and I wasdreading the year 8 class just a
little bit.
Remember, I was very early inmy career.
I didn't have a lot of skillsand I didn't have a lot of
experience and all the rest ofit.
I was so excited about thisyear 10 class.
I just imagined us sittingthere and talking about
literature and how exciting thebooks were, that we were reading
and you know all of the thingsthat an English teacher would
(04:46):
just froth over.
And I was so excited.
And then they lived up to myexpectations at the very
beginning of the year.
The year 10 class Brilliant, sogreat, it was so exciting, I
was doing such good work withthem.
The year eight class horrible,it was horrific.
I'd go into the go into thestaff room, I'd lay on the floor
my friend Karen, I would callit liquefying We'd sit at the
(05:09):
desk and then we just slowlyjust sink off our chairs onto
the floor, very unprofessionallyduring meetings, might I add,
that's what we do.
We would just be so exhaustedafter classes like this.
But year eight classchallenging.
Year 10 class brilliant.
But then, yeah, for some reasonthings started to swap and I
(05:29):
started to look forward toteaching the year eight class
and I started to dread teachingthe year 10 class.
I'm like what is happening hereand it happened so
incrementally and just subtlythat I just had no idea what had
happened, what had changed.
Did the classes change?
Did like what had gone on hereto make this year 10 class the
(05:50):
class that I absolutely loveteaching that were, on paper,
supposed to be the top class onpaper, supposed to be the
well-behaved class on paper,supposed to be the class that
had the least amount ofclassroom management issues,
with what has made them now morechallenging than the year eight
class.
That was supposed to be theclass that was the most
challenging, that was supposedto be the most disengaged To be
(06:13):
able to explain what washappening in the classroom with
these two classes.
By the way, I was not able toexplain this at the time.
It took me many years to beable to reflect and explain what
was happening in these twoclassrooms, but to be able to
explain that we have tounderstand the nonverbal
approaches that we can flip inbetween when it comes to
teaching our students.
There are two kinds of waysthat we can show up.
(06:35):
There are two kinds of teacherpersonas that we can embody, and
both of these, in teaching,have a very important time and
place.
But it's about balancing them.
I spoke about it in one of myepisodes the pendulum that we
swing between.
I think I spoke about it lastepisode when I was talking about
the teacher quiz.
But there's this pendulum thatwe have to swing between,
(06:56):
between two styles of nonverbalcommunication.
They are the credible style andthe approachable style.
What was happening and I'll gointo them a little bit more in a
second.
But what was happening was thatin the top class, in the year 10
class, because of myexpectations around the students
, because I was treating themdifferently, I was leaning more
(07:19):
on the approachable, I wasleaning more on the friendly,
the casual, the chatty, you know, and they were the top class.
They were super chatty and loudand without me holding those
reins and leading them, theywere just all over the place.
It's not that I wanted to betheir friend, I wanted to just
build rapport and I was superinexperienced in doing this.
(07:39):
And if you listened to the lastepisode as well, you'll know
that I am a dynamic teacher andif you've done that teacher quiz
you'll know.
But I am a dynamic teacher innature.
So I was trying to engage thesestudents through my verbals,
through my voice, throughprojecting that voice, and I was
getting increasingly flusteredand I wasn't able to embody the
(08:02):
calm and the quiet and thecredible to be able to bring
that back in.
So I was very inexperienced indoing that.
But what I was naturally doingwith the year eight class is
because I expect them to be morechallenging.
I was embodying more of thecredible.
Naturally, I was doing this.
I was really trying my verybest in that class, without
(08:25):
knowing this, by the way, so itwasn't perfect, but I was trying
my very best at it.
I was trying to embody more ofa credible persona.
So, for example, and imagine,this is like watching a split
screen on the left-hand side,you've got my year 10 class.
On the right-hand side, you'vegot my year eight class.
Imagine that I'm walking intoboth of these classes.
This is how I would giveinstructions in the approachable
(08:46):
and the credible.
I might've walked into the year10 class and gone hey, everyone
, look up at the board.
I've popped up what you'redoing for the, for the.
Do now for the lesson, jot itdown in your books, and I'm
going to give you three minutesto do that.
I might be leaning against thedesk, I might be walking around
and like saying hello to somestudents.
I am much more approachable inmy body language.
I am much more loose with mymovements.
(09:09):
I'm not embodying a credibleteaching persona.
And now look onto theright-hand side of that split
screen and you'll see me walkinginto my year eight class.
I'm walking straight, I'mwalking slowly.
I'm talking slowly.
I'm talking with less up anddown intonation.
So this is how it sounds likewith my year eight class.
(09:31):
Okay, year eight, if you drawyour attention up to the board,
there's your lesson objectives.
I'm going to give you threeminutes to write those in your
books.
Before we get started, I'll popa timer up on the boards.
I'll be standing there still.
I'll be watching the studentsget started.
I was, and that wasn't perfectbecause I would use a lot less
verbals than that now, but thatis what I was doing with year
(09:53):
eight and I was embodying thecredible.
My movements were slower, myvolume was quieter, my pace in
everything I did was slower,actually.
But not only was that languagedifferent, the intonation was
different.
It wasn't welcoming furtherdiscussion.
It wasn't inviting silliness orplayfulness.
It was steady, it was slow, itwas different.
It wasn't welcoming furtherdiscussion.
It wasn't inviting silliness orplayfulness, it was steady, it
(10:13):
was slow, it was calm.
I was mirroring to my yeareights the vibe that I wanted.
I was mirroring to them.
I am being a credible teacher,whereas with the year 10 class I
was, you know, having a chat.
I wasn't leading that room inthe way that I needed to lead it
.
I was really being approachable.
I was just having a chat, likeI am with you now.
(10:34):
Then, along with the way thatwe say things, what goes along
with this is your actual bodylanguage.
So again, look at that splitscreen.
Look at me with that year 10class.
The approachable teacher isbouncy and bubbly and I use a
lot of open and friendly handmovements.
But then go to the year eightsplit screen.
If you're wanting that calmenvironment that reduces low
(10:56):
level behaviors, you need topractice stillness.
So in that year eight class Iwas steady, I was still.
I was pausing next to the board.
I'd be using my presence aroundthe room and standing behind
certain students.
I was naturally trying my best,without having the actual,
explicit skills to be able to dothis, and I was doing that
(11:18):
because I thought in my mind, ifI give an inch, they'll take a
mile.
So I really need to beboundaried in this classroom.
I was different with them,naturally without being
cognizant of it.
So when I fast forwarded a termand I had utter chaos in my year
10 class, every single lesson,and I was in there bouncing
around hey, everyone, you know,stuff's up on the board.
(11:39):
I was sipping my coffee, I wasflopping around from person to
person and then in my year eightclass, I was handing the page
out of the door go sit down, getset on you do.
Now, when I was getting themstanding up row by row and
sending them out of the room, Iwas embodying the credible in a
way that I didn't realize I wasembodying.
So the second I did thistraining, I remember going, oh
(12:00):
my God, this envoy training.
I remember the penny droppingand going, oh my gosh, this is
what I've been doing, this iswhere I've been going wrong.
And I remember intentionallythen using my non-verbals, with
that year 10 class and the onepivotal moment in my career.
I will never, ever forget thismoment.
I thought, okay, I'm going toline this year 10 class up
outside.
They've never done this before.
(12:21):
We're one term in.
They usually sprint inside,grab whatever chair they want,
sit there, have their energydrinks, talking to each other.
I thought I'm going to changethis.
I need to do somethingdifferent.
So I lined them up outside.
I stood there, I lined them up,I adopted a credible stance, I
adopted a credible voice.
(12:41):
It felt weird, it feltunnatural.
One of the kids even said to meMiss English, what's wrong with
you?
Why are you acting like this?
But very, very quickly, just byme embodying the credible, by
me using my gaze, by me using mypresence, by me using my
stillness, they very, very, veryquickly fell into line with
(13:02):
what I was needing them to do.
I sent them one-to-one into thelesson and, with me saying
barely anything at all, they satdown quieter than I had ever
seen them in my life, just bychanging the way that I was
standing, speaking, waiting andbreathing, like I will never
(13:23):
forget that moment.
Because that was the moment Ithought and I don't want to
swear on this podcast becauseI've kept it clean for 80
something episodes but I thoughtoh, my effing, this is changing
, this is like, this is the nextphase of my career, this is,
this is life changing, this is agame changer in a way that I
never imagined.
So remember, I spoke about thatpendulum, that pendulum between
(13:46):
the approachable and thecredible.
Both are important, and I spokeabout that a little bit on last
week's episode of the podcastas well, when I was talking
about the teacher personas,because, as a dynamic teacher,
my pendulum is always swingingtowards the approachable, when I
needed to be swinging ittowards the middle, where I was
balancing at the right timesstrategically, the times where I
(14:07):
was credible, which is when Ineeded attention, when I needed
students to be workingindependently.
And then the approachable,where I was having a chat with
them, when we were having a morerelaxed activity.
Maybe we're doing a groupactivity, whatever we're doing,
but really balancing those twoteacher non-verbal personas.
That is something that is goingto change the low-level
(14:29):
behaviors that you see in yourclassroom.
But, as I said in the start ofthe episode, it's everything
that we're doing and if theyaren't coming on board, still,
if you're trying theapproachable and the credible
and they're still not coming onboard, it's not because you're
doing anything wrong.
Necessarily.
It's because there's so muchmore to it.
I go into each of these in moredepth and detail and strategy in
my low-level behavior bootcamp,which is currently open for
(14:51):
enrollment if you'd like to join, on top of many other things
that I go into, and I also applythem to three specific roadmaps
.
So setting a class off onindependent work, bringing a
class back from whole classchaos and then putting out
individual spot fires.
But here are a couple ofnuggets.
I obviously can't go throughall of that on the podcast, we'd
be sitting here for three hoursand I wouldn't have the visuals
or the resources or anything toactually get you to hardwire
(15:14):
that properly.
But here is a couple of nuggetsthat really can change the game
for you.
The first is ask yourself and Iask myself this every single
lesson is if things are goingawry.
I always ask myself this iswhat I am asking of my students
right now in alignment with orcontradicting the message I am
(15:39):
sending through my body language, for example and this goes into
the mistakes that I spoke abouttwo episodes ago, those three
big mistakes we all make Because, for example, if you're
expecting your students to bequiet but you're still talking
over them, you're never going toget them to listen to you
because you're sending messagesthat what you're saying isn't
important.
You're sending messages to getthem to listen to you because
you're sending messages thatwhat you're saying isn't
(15:59):
important.
You're sending messages thatit's okay to talk, as you're
reinforcing that for them, andsometimes we really shoot
ourselves in the foot and, bythe way, that is all happening
without you realizing it.
That's not a conscious decisionthat you're making.
Sometimes we shoot ourselves inthe foot by just not mirroring
our expectations and it justtotally undermines our own
efforts.
You could be doing a millionthings right, but you do this
(16:22):
one thing and it could undermineeverything and make things 50
times harder.
You could have the mostbrilliantly planned lesson, you
could have wonderful lessondesign, you could have wonderful
pedagogy in so many other areas, but if you do this one thing,
then it could really undermineall of the wonderful things that
you've done and make thingsvery hard for you.
(16:44):
So please listen to thatepisode a couple of episodes ago
about the mistake, the commonmistakes that we all make in the
classroom, because those littletweaks could even just those
three little tweaks could make ahuge impact in your classroom
management.
The second thing I just want tosay is the pause is important.
I know that sometimes waitingfor complete silence before you
(17:04):
start, even start your lesson,feels like an eternity, but, as
I just said, if you don't waitand you talk over the low level
disruptions, you are givingstudents the message, or sending
the messages, that whateveryou're about to say isn't
important.
They don't need to be a part ofit and it doesn't matter,
especially if it's thosestudents that are sitting up the
back there and they're used tobeing the students who things.
(17:27):
You let things slide, becauseit's such a battle, it's such a
hill that you just don't want todie on.
But pause, wait, be still.
Use that credible stance up,straight looking around the room
, using your gaze, breathe.
Use a hand up and wait foreveryone else to.
You know, pop the hand up aswell if that's your thing.
(17:48):
But eventually they will learnyour nonverbal language and they
will become better at it andthey will know that you're
always holding that boundary.
And if that doesn't work, thenthere are roadmaps that you can
follow to then address thoseindividual students.
But as a general rule, the pauseis so important and not
teaching over the chatter is soimportant.
(18:10):
Honestly, I use these thingsevery single lesson the
approachable and the credible.
I use the pause.
I use the rest of the P's inthe toolbox Every single lesson
and with almost all behaviorslow level, high level,
everything in between.
It is the bread and butter ofhow I address most things and
once you get this in yourarsenal, it is golden.
(18:32):
So please go and try, justbecome really conscious.
Am I being credible or am Ibeing approachable?
What am I embodying in thisclassroom right now?
And once you get that.
It is absolutely transformativefor your practice and I can't
wait to hear you go out in theclassroom and try that and feed
back to me how it's gone.
(18:53):
And if you do want to come andlearn the whole approach, you
can come and join me for myLevel Behavi behavior bootcamp.
I'll drop that link in the shownotes or it's
the-onteachablescom forwardslash LLBB for low-level
behavior bootcamp so you can gohave a look there.
And because you've listenedright to the end of this podcast
, you can get 20% off.
Just use the code podcast20 atcheckout and I'll knock 20% off
(19:17):
your enrollment.
Because I just want to saythank you for being here with me
on the podcast, because ifyou're here listening, that
means that you are absolutelydedicated to changing your
practice and that is notsomething that I take lightly
and I really hope to see youthere and until next week.
Oh, actually I have one littleother announcement.
I'm floating the idea of doinga second podcast episode weekly,
(19:39):
just like a really short fiveminute episode.
I love that.
I say floating the idea ofdoing it.
I'm not floating it with anyoneexcept my own brain.
I'm a one woman, but besides myhusband that does the uh, the
odd video editing every now andagain for my courses, bless you.
So shout out to my husband Ifyou're listening, you're not
listening.
I don't think you choose tolisten to my voice any more than
(20:04):
he has to.
But I don't know what it'sgoing to be called yet or when
it will start, but a five minuteshorty episode that would just
be based around a really quickwin.
So you might see more than justone a week and that will be
very exciting.
We'll see what happens there.
But I just wanted like adifferent episode where I just
did like a really quick win thatyou could take into the
classroom and then apply.
I actually wanted to call itSHIT.
(20:27):
That works, but, as I said,like this is a clean podcast.
I don't know if I want to gothere, but we'll see.
I am vibing that name.
I don't know why I'm stilltalking.
Have a lovely week and I'll seeyou next time.
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